CPCU - Advice

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BHoh
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by BHoh »

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joel66
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by joel66 »

Do both! I was in the same boat during my thirties. At that time, I recall having over 10 to 12 years of claims adjusting experience, and half of that time in litigation, yet some companies refused to interview me, because a 4-year degree is required.

I personally went with Excelsior College to get my BS in General Business, because they accepted a lot of my SCLA and ins courses from The Institutes, as well as taking CLEP exams. If you have a lot of business experience, it would not make that much of a difference on what school you went to, include is an Ivy league school (as long as regionally accredited).

Ashford is a good school, but make sure to weigh the costs. I think you need to take at least 10 classes at Ashford (residency requirement) at around $1,350 per course. With all schools, find out who many units you will need, and if you can transfer in CLEP, DSST, community college credits to keep the costs down. That is why I went to Excelsior, because I had lot of flexibility to take outside courses to keep my costs down.

I can't believe how time goes by so fast. I obtained my BS in Business back on August 2009 and completing my MBA this December and didn't not start school until I was 40 years of age (Jan 2007).

Here is a post I made after I graduated and my reason why I did both, and continued pushing forward after I obtained the CPCU and business degree http://joelomas02.wordpress.com/2009/09 ... education/
BHoh
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by BHoh »

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joel66
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by joel66 »

It is possible that some of your Firefighter certifications can be applied toward elective credits. I did not do any of the prior learning assessment, because I had completed some college courses while in the Army during the mid to late eighties, as well as 21 credits was applied from my SCLA designation.

I started my path toward my degree when my previous employer paid for my SLCA courses in January 2007. After I completed those courses around July 2007 is when I started with Excelsior. Those courses covered business law and other business electives and some upper division courses. After I completed my SCLA, I was able to complete my CPCU at a faster pace because there was some overlap between the two.

If you want to obtain a concentration in Risk Management & Ins, you will need to complete your ARM designation, as Excelsior College requires those courses to be applied toward that concentration. I had not completed my ARM until after I completed my CPCU, so I got the general business concentration.

I really enjoyed Excelsior, because they were very flexible on what courses to accept and did not have the 30 credit residency requirement that most schools required. This allowed me to take more CLEP and insurance courses.
BHoh
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by BHoh »

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Rainmaker
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by Rainmaker »

Perfect...bears repeating:
skryan wrote:In the interest of full disclosure, I work for the Institutes (American Institute for CPCU and Insurance Institute of America). I'm very glad you're considering CPCU. As for what is the best thing for you and your career, ultimately you'll have to make that determination. Having said that, here's some food for thought (in addition to the comments from superdash8's posting):
  • You don't necessarily have to choose between CPCU and a college degree. You can earn the CPCU designation and gain credit toward a college degree with one of our college or university partners. There's some information on our Web site: http://www.aicpcu.org/Students/ace.htm

    You can either self-study (most people do) or take classes. We have lists of public classes that are run by 3rd party providers around the country (including CPCU Society chapters) or you can take an instructor-led online class with the Institutes. Again, there's info on our site. You could also check with other people at your company and see if there are study groups.

    The average time for completion is 5 years, but many folks do complete it in less time. It all depends on how much time you're able to devote to studying for the exams.

    As for difficulty, CPCU courses have college-level difficulty. But if you've been in the business for a long time, that can certainly help you.

    We conducted a survey recently and found that the vast majority of CPCU designation holders surveyed saw increased job opportunities, received promotions and/or salary increases, or reported greater job security.

    I'd also check out your local CPCU Society chapter (find it at http://www.cpcusociety.org); they may offer classes and you can talk to other CPCUs or maybe even CPCU candidates. Depending on the chapter, they may even be able to hook you up with a mentor.
I'm somewhat biased, but I strongly believe CPCU is a great choice. Good luck with whatever choice you make!
David E. Estrada
Founder & Managing Director
Rainmaker Advisory LLC
Portland, Oregon
www.rainmakeradvisory.com
BWilliams2
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by BWilliams2 »

Those programs to complete both your CPCU and a bachelor's are exactly what a lot of us in this field need. To this point: Joel, your story was inspirational. Thanks for sharing.

@BHoh, when applying for positions have you emphasized your accomplishments to date? Your niche designation is impressive. Clearly a degree would open more doors, but I wonder if you've maxed out the doors your experience will open. When looking to get hired, emphasize the qualities you think they value most. (Find out what they value by asking!) Usually it's a strong track record of success selling intangibles, with numbers to back it up, and scaffolded by your emotional intelligence in sales (Source: http://www.jobs.net/Article/CB-94-Talen ... ce-Agents/).

Let us know how it's going with school, if that's the route you opted for.
bjwestner
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by bjwestner »

I'm not sure that a college degree is worth it at this point....if you are already in the insurance industry and are trying to figure out whether to get a CPCU or a college degree, I would strongly suggest getting the CPCU. This is of course assuming that you are not almost finished with your college degree and just need a little bit more to finish.

If I had to do it all over again, I would not change anything. I do not have a college degree, I never finished. I went to college for 2 plus years but took a semester off to come home and take care of my ailing father. I intended to go back and to just take like a semester off. While I was home I needed to work though and ended up being hired by a life insurance company to pull staples out of papers and to make copies. I did not intend at all to end up in the insurance industry but after I was hired I was intrigued and worked hard, asking questions and getting quickly promoted to an assistant underwriter. My ill father never got better and I never went back to college.

What I did do though was immediately start to educate myself outside of work. I signed up through work to take the first 5 FLMI classes and passed them all at one time and then the next time they were offered (this was at a time when you could only take them twice per year), I took the last five and obtained my first designation, FLMI. I then started taking CLU classes which were very difficult since I had been in the industry such a short time.

Being young and wanting to conquer the world as soon as possible, I was eager to move up and learn more. Unfortunately things don't happen overnight like I wanted them too and after a year and a half at the life insurance company I was hired by a large auto insurance company to be a claims rep. I still finished my CLU though because although I was in a completely different line of insurance, I thought I might as well finish since I was close to doing so. I worked as a claims rep for just a year and a half before being promoted to a supervisor for 4+ years a the auto insurance company.

I was a casualty of the great recession though and was laid off in August of 2008. I wasted time though because while I loved working as a supervisor of claims at the large auto insurance company, I did not continue my education. I thought I'd work there forever. Boy was I wrong and at 28 in the worst job market in a long time I had no job for four months but I was able to be hired by another auto insurance company but only as a claims rep. While it was a major pay cut and a blow to my ego, I knew I could not waste anymore time and took the one more class I needed to get my third designation, RHU. Even though I was not in health insurance I needed just one more class to get that designation and needed CE anyway so I did it. I looked around and did research. I contemplated finishing my degree. I also realized that the CPCU was arguably the most prestigious designation out there and lined up with current line of business.

When I started my CPCU studies, I had been in the industry for almost 10 years and thus had a lot of knowledge from work and also from insurance education classes/designations/etc. Because of the CLU and FLMI designations, I only had to take 6 CPCU classes since two of them were waived. I started in March of 2011 and finished the CPCU classes in February of 2012, just under one year and got my CPCU.

While my resume had been online before I finished my CPCU, once I finished and was able to display those letters after my name I noticed a dramatic increase in interest and as a result I received a ton of job offers. Out of all the designations I have, the CPCU was the hardest but also taught me the most. Getting the CPCU was the best thing I did and I only wish that I had done it sooner.

I'm sharing my story because I could have went back to college and finished, but that would have ruined my financially and I really don't think that it would have done anything for my career. I was already in the insurance industry for a while so although I did not have a degree, I had some college and had so much education from various designations that I think most companies were fine with me not having a degree (this was even the case when I was hired at age 22 by the large auto insurer, I was the only one in the office without a degree yet was still hired and even made supervisor in just a year and a half).

Obviously I cannot get an MBA without a bachelors but I'm positive that this has not hurt me at all so far. If anything the time and money I saved by not finishing college and focusing on other designations (CPCU) was a better result in my opinion. Fifteen years ago things were different I think in that having a degree was absolutely necessary but today I think companies are thinking more outside the box and will absolutely consider a candidate that does not have a degree especially for a line of business like insurance.

Sorry for the long post but I see people asking questions quite a bit about what they should do? I thought that my experience may be relevant to some out there and can hopefully aid in making a life changing decision.
brookemarker
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by brookemarker »

I believe the best advice is to obtain a college degree and pursue the CPCU as your concentration.

I earned the BSBA from Indiana University in 2010. In 2013 and 2014 I earned the AINS and the ARM.

I am in the process of earning the CPCU with an expected completion date of 2016.

I strongly recommend a college degree. It holds much more value than any designation. You will gain a well rounded knowledge in business practices and communications that will benefit you through your career.

I would not be in my role in insurance underwriting without my college degree. It would be very difficult to compete with those who have a degree, experience, and designations. It is a competitive job market today and you must be the best that you can be to achieve excellence.

Do not undermine those that have achieved the four year goal of a degree.
BHoh
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by BHoh »

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mightyquinn
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by mightyquinn »

I've been in this business for 46 years and over time this is how its shaken out:
CPCU: for underwriters
CIC + sundry others: for brokers
MBA: for everyone

Find a reputable online MBA program [e.g. Pepperdine] and go for it. U of Phoenix and others of the for profit online degree ilk won't cut it. You need a reputable, proven school & program which just happens to be online.

If you don't have an undergrad degree, then find a local school and major in business and minor in economics.
________________________________
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eedelacruz
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by eedelacruz »

Sorry to hijack this thread but it is very informative. I'm in a similar position; deciding whether to pursue CPCU or an MBA.

I have a bachelor's degree in accounting and 10 years insurance experience mostly on the financial side. I'm just not sure which direction to go though. I want to learn more and I feel I need to if I want to go further.

I've read several persons are deciding whether to pursue CPCU or Bachelor's degree. What about CPCU or MBA?

From reading the last post, it would seem the MBA would be the logical choice.
AssociatePI
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by AssociatePI »

eedelacruz wrote:Sorry to hijack this thread but it is very informative. I'm in a similar position; deciding whether to pursue CPCU or an MBA.

I have a bachelor's degree in accounting and 10 years insurance experience mostly on the financial side. I'm just not sure which direction to go though. I want to learn more and I feel I need to if I want to go further.

I've read several persons are deciding whether to pursue CPCU or Bachelor's degree. What about CPCU or MBA?

From reading the last post, it would seem the MBA would be the logical choice.
In my opinion, I think CPCU Designationis the way to go if you're planning to stay in the insurance industry. I've worked as a business analyst, primarily dealing with analyzing profitability/improving auto metrics and I was faced with the same decision.

I ultimately chose the CPCU designation (which I fell in love with enough to start a CPCU blog to help others). I figured MBA would provide me with more general business knowledge, which would be great if I leave the insurance industry, but I'm not planning to leave. The CPCU has given me SUCH an advantage over my peers. It covers all topics of the property casualty insurance industry and has definitely improved the quality of my work. It really helped me to combine my business background with my insurance knowledge in order to better prepare business plans and strategies. There was a study by the CPCU society (can't find the link, but it's on their web page) that noted 50% of those with their CPCU saw a 15% increase in salary and a study by Payscale.com showed that the median CPCU salary is $74,338 I've seen plenty of analysts with their MBA and plenty with their CPCU. In my opinion, the CPCUs seem to have a better sense of the insurance industry and seem to be more knowledgeable in their current position.

Another deciding factor was that my company paid 100% for CPCU study material and exams up front, whereas my MBA would have been a 10 year reimbursement commitment

Feel free to shoot me a message if you have any questions!
http://associatepi.com/cpcu/ provides free content for the CPCU designation including practice exams, study guides, exam reviews and online courses. Pass your exam in less time with less studying
BHoh
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by BHoh »

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Askariot
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Re: CPCU - Advice

Post by Askariot »

Hey everyone, thanks for being a part of this discussion. I think that you might also find the story of Arnie Winick interesting – it involves bank owned life insurance, client pouching and other stuff that we have to deal with in the field of insurance and related activities.
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