looking for feedback/advice please....

[bjwestner]

Hi All - To all of those that know the industry well and have been around for a while, I would really appreciate your help/feedback on something.

Here's the deal: I've been in the insurance industry for 11 plus years. Most of that time has been with P&C carriers on the claims side. I've been a claims rep and a claims supervisor for 9+ of those 11 years. The rest of the time is from when I first got into the industry and worked in the underwriting department of a large life insurer. My primary experience while working for the P&C carriers is in personal and commerical auto claims.

I'm looking to get into the sales side of things as years on the claims side have been fun but it's time to get on the front end of things. I just obtained my producer license in Maryland for P&C, Life, Accident, and Health. I'm a CPCU, CLU, RHU, and FLMI and have been to college. I would think that this would make a decent resume for someone trying to get into the sales side.

I'm not dumb enough to just jump into something that pays commission only as I am well aware of how hard the first few years are on that road. The only offer I've received is from Farmers and this is what I need input on. I've read all the forums and such but the only place that I can get an offer is with them. I do not like the offer as obviously I'd be captive and there is no base salary just a "stipend" which ultimately is going to go back to Farmers anyway. Ideally I'd like to get with an experienced agency that provides some base salary. Don't get me wrong, I plan on working my ass off, I just would like to have someone to learn from and help out as well. If I expect an agency to hire me then I fully expect to give back, after all it's not all about me and I fully understand this. The problem is just that there is nothing out there in the DC area as I've applied many places and the only offer I've gotten in a month of job searching is from Farmers.


Is this something I should consider at all or completely forget it and just wait around until something comes up. I am still employed by an insurance company and I like working here it's just that there is no growth at all (it's a long story). Any feedback would be appreciated and if anyone knows of an agency in the DC area please let me know as I am happy to share my resume and discuss. I have a lot of experience including 4 years of management experience with one of the largest auto carriers in the country. Thanks.

[William Graham]

Hi BJ

I was a Farmers (FIG) agent for 22 years.
For what it is worth-- for most prospective agents, becoming a FIG agent today will be a personal financial disaster

The reason FIG is the only offer you have on the table is that their agent recruitment system is one of not just large numbers but huge numbers - they recruit thousands to fill a niche that only 2 or 3 agents will succeed at. The subsidy that FIG advances to live on and to support your business --is really just a loan that at the end of the day you will have to re-pay unless you meet some very lofty sales goals over a 5 year period of time. Only because of the grace of God and some really good planning, I made it thru the program 20 some years ago- then their new agent subsidy program was just 2 years- I also became just about invisible in my family’s life for those 2 years - I cannot imagine how onerous their 5 years program would be like today. Keep in mind that according to FIG just departed CEO Paul Hopkins - FIG only considers an agent to be a viable commodity for 7 years in their system.

You might want to spend some time on an internet search reading what existing or former Farmers agents have to say.
here is one link on the forum similar to this one on the United Farmers Agent Association website

http://www.ufaa.com/phorum/index.php?0

Just as a thought -- your best bet would be to work as a producer (part-time & keep your day job) to see if you really can do the job or even like it - no disrespect for Claims or Underwriting but most of the folks I know in those areas have zero prospects to be successful as agents-- it is far different skill set on the other side of the table than you might think.

[bjwestner]

Thank you very much for the reply. I did read quite a bit online about being a Farmers agent. There is a ton of bad stuff and also a few good things. What concerns me about this is not only that many times it's just people that are unhappy for reasons of their own control, but also that many of the posts and complaints go back to 2007 or earlier. It seems like just yesterday but that was actually 5 years ago so I was wondering if this changed at all?

As for working part time on the side, that is something that I am defnitely considering but in doing that would put me on my own with no agency or anything really. I want to be part of an agency to learn and help them grow as I grow. I do not have any desire to necessarily be my own boss or own my own business. I simply like all aspects of insurance and just want to continue to get better, learn more, and become the best insurance professional possible. Since I've already been in underwriting and claims, I think that sales is my next step.

I'm hoping, and please correct me if I am wrong or should not be thinking this way, hoping that the years of experience in underwriting and claims will help me out a lot in making the transition. Furthermore I'm hoping that I have a few top of the line insurance designations that this will build credibility with the people that I am working with to show proof that I am committed and a hard worker.......

[dm307799]

A lot HAS changed at Farmers. I am not an employee or anything but was affiliated with the Ohio AgencyPoint & they really do have a great program but it really is geared towards a long term committment to building your own business & taking full responsibility over it. I think you'd be best served by meeting the people, make sure you like them, touch/feel everything...and then make a decision. Your "financial house" sounds like it would be in order, so if you are going to jump into sales...it'd be a great opportunity. Your designations & prior experiences are really just going to serve as feathers in your cap versus things that will garner you respect in your new setting...but if you have an open mind to the process...I feel the rewards are there. It's just going to be hard to shift your mentality to really desiring having an unlimited earning potential. I hope I've been helpful.

[d's insurance store]

You're going to be looked at as 'fresh meat' as a prospective recruit for Farmers or Allstate or any of the other captive environments where there's tremendous pressure to recruit bodies, where the start up money and risk is all transferred to you with phrases like 'unlimited earning power' until you're installed, and then, POW!, you're going to feel as though you bought yourself a prison term.

Look, you don't even know if you're going to like the sales side of insurance or starting an agency or even working in an agency. This is a major career and cultural change for you, so treat it as such. If you've made just a few inquiries in this current economic environment, and the only thing that comes back is the Farmers offer, then I respectfully submit that you're not casting a wide enough net to see if you can adjust to an agency environment.

Agency sales can be personal lines, commercial lines, wholesale, benefits, and many other areas.

If this is going to be a career passage for you, then do yourself a favor and stick with the current job, giving you a lot of lattitude for quietly looking at other opportunities in the insurance business. When you find something that is worthy of your time and investigation, you'll know it.

[William Graham]

BJ

I agree things have changed with Farmers
they have gotten a lot worse
I am not sure what part of the BB you went to on the UFAA site but
there are lot of posts, copies of correspondence etc that is from today, yesterday, last
30 days galore not just from 2007. I left as an agent Jan 2010- I have many friends who are agents whom I see
regularly - I saw one today in a small town 30 miles east of me -- so the info I related to you
is not dated. It is not impossible to make a successful career as a FIG agent -- it is just highly improbable

D Insurance is giving good advice -- investigate carefully - & I agree with him the only worse choice today than FIG
is Allstate as an agent career.

DM

I am not sure where you work in Farmers management but it is likely the PR department.

[justthere]

It always amazes me how much venom comes out every time somebody asks a question about Farmers Insurance. It is almost always the same group of people who do it. It just seems to linger for years. When an anger lasts that long, you really have to start looking inside yourself to find out how to get past it. Life does go on.

The fact is Farmers obviously works for some people since they have over 14,000 agents and not all of them are so unhappy that their heads spin around everytime the name Farmers is mentioned. The ones who are successful have learned how to work within their system. Like Bill who posted above, I have also been with Farmers for 22 years. The difference is that I learned what worked for my agency within the Farmers guidelines and used it to my advantage and have been extremely successful in doing so.

That being said, the new contract that Farmers instituted a few years ago is so skewed toward the company that I cannot in good conscience recommend anybody going to work for them as an agent. You will truly be a captive and under their control for a long time. I do agree with Bill that the company has changed considerably and that there are serious disconnects between management and agents, mostly due to their goals clashing with the ability to achieve them because of sky high pricing in most parts of the country. This makes it extremely difficult to succeed now.

[tcs@ajg]

The thing you need to understand is that your insurance knowledge is not the main thing an agency would be seeking. They are looking for someone who can bring new business/revenue to the agency. When you demonstrate some excellent skill at selling, you will have multiple offers. Coincidentally, the same skills required to find new insurance clients are the skills you need to find a new employer. I wish you good hunting.

[Island Girl Agent]

I think just bringing the name "Farmers" into the mix here gets you away from the real issue. Are you sales material or not? I have hired many many producers over the years, and very few of them ever turn out to be long term successful. Why? Well, let's just say the successful insurance sales professional on the P & C side needs to be driven, willing to work hard, put in long hours, understands how to quickly risk manage, and is not afraid to ask for the business wherever he/she goes out in the community. We don't pay stipends or base salaries. Tried that, found it to be a safety net that slowed down the process... it's strictly commission, sink or swim. We do everything we can to help them succeed, of course, but ultimately it's up to them.

If there is any way you can test the waters first, keep your "day job" and try the producer role to see if it really is what you want, you'll be much better off. In fact I have a guy here right now who did exactly that, and after 6 months he was ready to jump in full time here and he is doing well, off and running.

Good luck!

[William Graham]

BJ

Island Girl & TCS are giving you advice that is right on
& I don't think it is not that much different than what I was suggesting
Sales is quite different - if it was easy or a comfortable secure career - everyone would do it

Justthere

I don't think I disagree with anything you posted - but as far as the reason you are looking for --
Here is mine

It is called battered spouse syndrome - you don't realize you are being beaten daily & you think everything is your entire fault
Until you get free of the relationship.

[lonestar]

BJ, Will Graham and D's Insurance Store are giving you truthful feedback. DM 307799 is not giving you feedback on the Farmers that I knew for over 11 years as an agent when I left FIG in 2010. Things have only gotten worse for Farmers agens since 2007. DM seems to be spouting remarks from the PR department. Do your research, look at http://www.ufaa.com in the public bulletin board section. Look at another Farmers comment board for current and past Farmers agents at http://myinsuranceworld.proboards.com/index.cgi. Look at the facts.

You have been given pearls of wisdom from posters here that do not have a dog in this fight. But I will leave you with one thought: IF being a Farmers agent is a worthy path, then WHY are so many agents leaving Farmers after 3,5,10 and 20 years?(Think about this.) Farmers seems to be a "starter kit" for agents to enter the Independent Agency system. Have you thought about contacting a local Independent agent to work under their wing to get started? With Farmers, and all the "Captive" companies, YOU DO NOT OWN YOUR OWN BUSINESS. ALL YOU OWN IS THE DEBT. Think about it. It is not this way on the Independent side. There is also a copy of the recent Farmers Contract(May 2009) on the UFAA board.
Find it here: http://www.ufaa.com/page/PDFS/New-Agent ... eement.pdf

Be wise, get an attorney to read this contract WITH you BEFORE you sign up with Farmers. Before committing yourself for 5 years, as well as committing thousands of dollars on marketing and building up a subsidy debt that you will have to pay back, do some deep thinking. Do not take this lightly. Good luck.

[William Graham]

A lot HAS changed at Farmers. I am not an employee -----
having an unlimited earning potential.

Just to clarify I would not have had a problem with DM's post or reacted as I did until he wrote the above magic recruitment slogan.

I don't know of anyone who has been an agent for any length of time who would post something like that. An agent would know how misleading that concept is but it is a phrase I & other agent friends heard over and over in the recruiting process. It glosses over the expenses, overhead which only increases as you grow as well as your employees have tenure, as well the extraordinary effort it takes to keep the doors open as well as meet an agency payroll. It is a flat out appeal based on greed that is less than honest.

[dm307799]

We (agents) are what you say we will be. I'll admit...I'm a dreamer...but I'm going to continue to dream & hope to bring new anxious dreamers into the industry that I so love. Live through the windshield men & women, not through the rear-view. Is it that hard of a formula? "Unlimited" was not greedy until you put it in your context like that. "Unlimited" to me was an enabling word which allows me to dream big. When you dream big, you can think outside of the box. Take cybersurance for example. New product! Created by someone! Sure you can say it was created out of necessity (I'd disagree) or to prey on peoples weaknesses (I'd disagree) but in all honesty I'd like to think it was created to enable indemnity. The nature of our business. I'm done.

[bjwestner]

Thank you all for the advice. I did meet with the recruiter on Saturday. I made no promises at all and as of now am waiting for an email from them that will contain the contract and some other information that I requested. Once I get the email I will go over it in detail.

I took their assessment test and got a perfect score. Now one of two things occured, either the recruiter was telling me the truth when he said that "nobody has ever done that before that I've seen" or he was full of it trying to get me to feel good.

One of the reasons that I am still even considering the position after the kind advice that I've gotten is that I am trying to move back "home" to the DC area and currently I live in work in NJ. I've been in NJ since 2005 and have nothing keeping me here except for work. I'm not married, have no kids, so basically my time goes into my work and that's it. This is the only opportunity that I've gotten in the DC area after two months of searching hard.

While I'd love nothing more than to start part time and see how it goes, I cannot really do that as every Friday night I drive back to DC area to visit with my family (uncle, cousins, etc.) and then drive back to NJ Sunday night for work on Monday morning.

I'm waiting to hear back from Liberty Mutual as I was told that someone was going to contact me from their office but then this morning I got a rejection email? Obviously I'd much rather work for LM than Farmers but it appears that this may be the only opportunity......There's one other thing that bothers me and that I really want to know about Farmers.....I've read many forums and many posts bashing them to pieces. I'm sure that all of it is not true and I can tell by some of the posts that some of the people that took those jobs with Farmers and ended up in debt/failing were brand new to the industry and maybe did not know what they were getting into. Can anyone answer specifics as follows: Will they pay for any marketing (i.e. direct malings for each agent? Will they guarantee any leads and if so how many? These were questions the recruiter could not answer. Thanks,

[d's insurance store]

I feel like I'm watching a slow motion train wreck here...you ask for advice...you get some...admitedly some more biased than others...and yet you sound like you're putting all your faith in a recruiter. Pal, you're asking the wrong questions...mailings and leads won't mean squat if your rates are out of line with personal lines competition. Have you done ANY research into the Farmer's competitive position in either DC, Maryland or Virginia? Have you taken half a day and gone 30 to 40 miles outside of where you think you want to locate and sit down and interview exisiting Farmer's agents to see how they feel about their relationship with the mother ship, and allowing them to speak freely without the threat of local competition?

This is a very tough biz on the retail size...cutthroat and vicious...rate driven...just look at how you buy things in this ecnomic environment...do you buy value or do you buy price? What, if anything are you going to bring to the table that's any different from any other insurance agent? Why do business with you? Because you got a name from a lead?

It's your life and your investment. Certainly there are many stories about agents getting lucky, helped along with sincere hard work and honesty and integrity. Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones, but unless you're not giving the forum a true indication that you've doen your research...I mean really investigated this 'opportunity'...I'd say you're headed for the dustbin.

I hope for your sake, I'm proven wrong in a couple of years. Good luck. You're going to need it.