Our country was also founded on biblical teachings (even though Democrats like to refute it), which views homosexuality as sinful, perverse and immoral. Instead of changing the law on marriage, change the law to allow civil unions giving them the rights they seek without defiling the sanctity of marriage.
Suze – source required – not founded on Biblical teachings. There were aetheists and agnostics in the Founding Fatherhood.
The Constitution separates Church and State. The legality of same sex marriage is a State issue. No one is saying your church has to marry those dirty icky gays. You can be bigoted against gay marriage all you and your church wants. Jesus never said anything about gays either…in case you’re a Christian.
If you believe in the bible, it doesn’t matter that Jesus never brought up gays. He also never brought up many of the sins detailed in the old testament. If you believe in the bible, sin is sin. Jesus didn’t come to bring new laws and commandments or reaffirm them and you know this. He came to bring the possibility of forgiveness, provided you “go and sin no more”. The phrase go and sin no more was stated after the famous let the man without sin cast the first stone phrase, which I’ve seen you use to state that sin can go without God’s judgement, especially gay behavior. The very phrase “go and sin no more” was the requirement to forgiveness of any type of sin. Therefore, if you study Jesus, and the old testament, actually Biblical gays cannot be forgiven while they remain gay. I however don’t believe in the bible, so at least I’m consistent there. People like you though…Are hypocrites. You criticize those blasted hypocrite zealot religious folk, and then you draw your own conclusions on religion, and partake in an extremely poorly researched christian liberal demographic. You seem to think only republican or conservative religious folks can be blind. You my friend are just as guilty.
The bible is clear on gay behavior.
Now off of that little spat:
Yes. Many if not most the people who are attempting gay laws are trying to conjoin church and state not separate it. This is exactly what us balanced republicans have against gay marriage laws. They are passed with so called discrimination laws and retaliation laws against churches regarding celebratory services. That’s the problem. In Washington when republicans tried to insert an amendment that allowed churches to charge for celebratory provisions (for say, flying your priest of choice out to the location that you want to have your wedding, which the church can’t just pull out of their rear end) the gay rights politicians (democrats) kicked the amendment out. It also provided protection from losing benefits. In Canada as an example Catholic churches lost benefits for many of these similar areas due to how the laws were set up. The result was Church vs State, not separation of church and state. The democrats here, as well as you, are founding that same mentality.
As an example, psychotherapy (if you didn’t know the catholic church offers more of this than any other institution in the world) for damaged persons for example would be kicked from the program as being tax free (as in they charge only a minimal charge and don’t have to charge more due to being taxed, it is the lowest cost psychotherapy in the world) because they charged fees for celebratory costs in weddings. Weddings cost money, or should we all just have a free wedding and not use the priests we want?
You see one side of things and are narrow minded, just like the republicans you argue against.
I will admit, that both Suze and Perplexed are way out of line in their commentary and I myself find it disheartening. However, your reply does not help direct the problem, contradicts the religion you say you are a part of (blatantly lying that the bible supports gay marriage) and simultaneously tries to allow separation of church and state to end.
Civil Unions undeniably are the best route to implementing a gay marriage law. In the absence of that, the provisions in the republican gay marriage bill would suffice. Your side commingles church and state just as much.
If the ‘sanctity’ of your marriage is threatened by someone else’s marriage – whether gay or straight – you really need to re-evaluate your own relationship.
If this country was founded on bibilical teachings then the church would not allow priests to molest alter boys that were there to serve the church, that is SINFUL. Also the bible does say Jesus loves everyone regardless of race or sex. There is nothing sinful with loving someone regardless of what sex they are and if they choice to get married they should have the same rights as everyone else. The sanctity of marriage is two people in love and choice to be married, isn’t that what marriage is, who cares what sex they are, love is no different for a straight couple then for a gay couple.
Blue – Sin abounds and the Catholic church is just one of many examples. The bible doesn’t support their demands that priests abstain from marriage! Maybe they wouldn’t have so much of their disgusting molestation of boys if their priests were allowed to marry, but I digress. You’re right that the Lord loves no matter what race, but He is not mocked. He states that those that love him will keep His commandments. Homosexuality is definitely a lifestyle in opposition of God. Read Romans chapter 2. Please don’t try to justify the deviant lifestyle of the homosexual as something that is approved of by our Maker. It just isn’t supported in His word
So is eating shellfish, tattoos, and mixing different fabrics. Man, thank GOD this country isn’t ruled by any religion’s law. Ever notice how many Commandments are broken by Constitutional Amendments – heck, The Bill of Rights alone, the First Amendment alone?
Capt. you don’t read enough of the bible to comment on it. You go back to the old testament and drag up the law of Moses, which was a divine law, but when Jesus fulfilled the law the fabric mixing, shellfish, tattoo etc. laws no longer had to be kept. By the way, in depth study of the Law of Moses would reveal symbolism that God wanted his people to meditate on to direct them to His holiness. You scoff and use those things seemingly to prove points, but your shallow understanding of those laws is evident. You don’t care enough to search out, and you don’t care what your Creator thinks so you should quit “quoting” what you think is in the bible.
And you judge me without knowing me. I attend church regularly, have read the Bible multiple times (and continue to read it), was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school from 8th grade through high school graduation, did the CCD thing when attending public school, have been Baptised, Confirmed, and believe myself to be a spiritual person. God has told me through much meditation and prayer that discriminating against gays is not His way and Jesus taught all of us in scripture to love everyone, even your enemies. Look at those Jesus surruonded Himself with. You really think Jesus would stand against gay people?
July 15, 2013 at 2:56 pm
perplexed says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Captain, you received a direct revelation from God telling you that you should accept the homosexual lifestyle and support it? Strange that He would change His written word to advise you of that. Jesus did not tolerate unrepentant, prideful sinners. you need to read with an open mind when you read the word. You obviously haven’t read Romans chapter 2, have you? Yes, I do think Jesus will stand against gay people. He stood strongly against the scribes and pharisees and called them hypocrites. When he forgave someone it was because they repented! Please read the scripture for your information and quit putting words in the Almighty’s mouth. NO WHERE does the word support what you’re spouting to be truth.
July 17, 2013 at 12:00 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
No where does “the Word” support your attitude of hate, intolerance, and disdain. Jesus would be ashamed of you calling yourself a Christian.
July 17, 2013 at 12:06 pm
Libby says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself.
July 17, 2013 at 2:14 pm
bob says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
Libby:
Passing judgement in biblical times was basically punishment.
Allow me to demonstrate:
Let he who has sin cast the first stone. The judgement being passed was the decision that the sin merited being stoned.
The bible in revelations spoke of churches that God did not approve of because they tolerated sin in their ranks and made no effort to cast it out.
The bible talks about many tiers, but the basics are:
Believe in Jesus.
Repent of sin.
Remove sin.
Do not be luke warm of sin.
Do not pass judgement (incur punishment to sinful people)
What it adds up to is basically don’t tolerate sin, don’t perpetuate sin by doing sins just because someone else is sinning, and don’t spread hate. Going around for example and saying that gays will not be forgiven in the eyes of God, would only be sinful if you started saying it in a judgmental fashion for example “you will go to hell” or “you are an abomination” and of the such. If you simply said “What you’re doing is wrong” you would be within your bounds Biblically.
Though as I’ve said before, I don’t believe in the bible. I believe in being consistent though if you do. I probably have much more research hours into the bible than you, and I can tell you that you and planet are not consistent.
July 17, 2013 at 3:01 pm
bob says:
Like or Dislike:
0
0
You are far too immature, and lack far too much research in the bible.
Food laws are not commandment laws or “sinful” laws. As an interesting note: Most the food laws are just plain healthier to do. For example when it comes to eating a certain type of bird, there are birds in that group that have a protein chain that is literally harmful to the health of human beings. That’s why you weren’t to eat that bird. It wasn’t that it was “sinful” to eat the bird. Those “laws” were tribal laws. You clearly don’t know the difference.
You seem to disregard old testament laws that you believe are extreme and then follow what you do believe, pick and choose religion. I love it.
Research the bible more before you make such boyish comments as “So is eating shellfish, tattoos, and mixing different fabrics. Man, thank GOD this country isn’t ruled by any religion’s law” which show you know nothing about the bible and also that you are so ready to disregard what you believe in by attacking the credibility of the religion that you already follow.
Perplexed,
I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic elementary and high school, was baptised and confirmed. The Bible teaches you to LOVE your fellow man, not HATE. It doesnt matter what religion you are love is the same if you are gay or straight, you dont love any less if you are gay. If your friend or family member was gay and fell in love would you disown them for being who they are and if they fell in love would you be the one to tell them they cant married, even though you can marry the one you love because your straight….Really come on now this is 2013, two gay people falling in love or getting married doesnt effect your life either way, gay people are just that GAY….so let them live their lives the way they want to and let them have the same rights everyone else does becasue they are NO different then any one else!
Sadly, Blue, many families disown and throw out their LGBTQ children/siblings. I am appalled every time I read a story about kids thrown out of their homes. I can’t imagine abandoning my children like that. There are many types of evil in the world and I cannot believe that love is one of them. If two people love each other and want to commit their lives to being together, they should. It doesn’t make my het marriage any less legal or loving just because a same sex couple marries.
A: Your premise is both immature and incorrect. Founded based on beliefs is different than run by. The government doesn’t run churches. Priests molesting alter boys is an emotional charged statement that you are an insanely unethical person for having put in there trying to tie into any institution whether government or religious.
B: Read the bible. Jesus loves all but does not forgive all. See my phrase about “go and sin no more”. I’m not religious, but this is just an undeniable fact: Jesus and or God would never join a single sex couple in marriage. Any religion that is trying to modify the bible to do this is out of line and risks being a type of religion that puts religious issues into the hands of man, which is extremely dangerous. A government marriage is fine with me. It makes sense and that way we won’t have governments or the whimsical behavior of humans affecting religious beliefs or molding them. While you blame zealots for things like the inquisition, I blame PEOPLE who twisted religious beliefs. I agree it is extremely risky to give power to churches. That power comes from giving them the ability to change biblical teachings.
C: If you believe in the bible, there is no such thing as love between two gay people. It is as the bible puts it “an abomination”.
D: If you don’t believe in the bible, don’t try to change the bible’s words to match up with your belief. That mindset causes wars that kings and rulers have tried to do for centuries. Think Joseph Smith regarding blacks in the Mormon bible.
And it looks like the PA Attorney General won’t be defending the case against the ACLU. :)
“She quoted from Pennsylvania’s Constitution forbidding discrimination “against any person” and said that “disparate treatment” based on race, religion and ethnic origin were no longer tolerated, and “it is now the time here in Pennsylvania to end another wave of discrimination.””
Jesus died for all sinners and yes, we all have fallen short of the Glory of God.
He loves everyone, including homosexuals. What He doesn’t approve of is sin, in any way, shape or form. It’s the act, not the person. The person can be forgiven, one only has to ask.
That is why pride is so deadly.
Jesus left an empty grave, why else would almost all His friends allow themselves to be executed for His Name’s sake?
Incorrect in only one area that is a misconception of most Christians:
When Jesus forgave he would say the phrase “go and sin no more”.
The person did not simply have to ask. They had to no longer engage in the sin. When the first pope so to speak struck a person dead with the holy spirit, the reason he was struck dead was that he had no intention of changing unless God caught him in his lie.
That person was a member of God’s church. That person believed in God and believed God would forgive him. His sin that got him struck down was that he believed he could simply be forgiven and still do the sin.
There are many more examples. The bible is clear that you are to do penance. In the old testament it was sacrifices. In the new testament it is belief in Jesus, the asking of forgiveness of sins, and repentance. Repentance was also spoken of often. Repentance was the removal of sin.
The goal of Jesus was not to allow for sin to continue to exist as long as you believed in God. It was to destroy sin in it’s entirety through Jesus being forgiving. Do you honestly believe that God sought to just have people believe in him?
If that were the case he would reveal himself now. Then we would all believe wouldn’t we?
I say, hooray for the PA Attorney General. Let’s legalize marriage for gays, make the divorce lawyers happy, and move on to the next issue, legalizing marijuana. Now, where in the Bible does it say that is a sin? Goodness gracious, there is no seperation of church and state in these many comments. It’s a lesson in the many interpations of the Bible and heaven help the person who thinks the Bible is just a book.
Good on you, ACLU!
Vomit…
Our country was also founded on biblical teachings (even though Democrats like to refute it), which views homosexuality as sinful, perverse and immoral. Instead of changing the law on marriage, change the law to allow civil unions giving them the rights they seek without defiling the sanctity of marriage.
Suze – source required – not founded on Biblical teachings. There were aetheists and agnostics in the Founding Fatherhood.
The Constitution separates Church and State. The legality of same sex marriage is a State issue. No one is saying your church has to marry those dirty icky gays. You can be bigoted against gay marriage all you and your church wants. Jesus never said anything about gays either…in case you’re a Christian.
Good on you ACLU!
Planet,
In the first point I will put in here:
If you believe in the bible, it doesn’t matter that Jesus never brought up gays. He also never brought up many of the sins detailed in the old testament. If you believe in the bible, sin is sin. Jesus didn’t come to bring new laws and commandments or reaffirm them and you know this. He came to bring the possibility of forgiveness, provided you “go and sin no more”. The phrase go and sin no more was stated after the famous let the man without sin cast the first stone phrase, which I’ve seen you use to state that sin can go without God’s judgement, especially gay behavior. The very phrase “go and sin no more” was the requirement to forgiveness of any type of sin. Therefore, if you study Jesus, and the old testament, actually Biblical gays cannot be forgiven while they remain gay. I however don’t believe in the bible, so at least I’m consistent there. People like you though…Are hypocrites. You criticize those blasted hypocrite zealot religious folk, and then you draw your own conclusions on religion, and partake in an extremely poorly researched christian liberal demographic. You seem to think only republican or conservative religious folks can be blind. You my friend are just as guilty.
The bible is clear on gay behavior.
Now off of that little spat:
Yes. Many if not most the people who are attempting gay laws are trying to conjoin church and state not separate it. This is exactly what us balanced republicans have against gay marriage laws. They are passed with so called discrimination laws and retaliation laws against churches regarding celebratory services. That’s the problem. In Washington when republicans tried to insert an amendment that allowed churches to charge for celebratory provisions (for say, flying your priest of choice out to the location that you want to have your wedding, which the church can’t just pull out of their rear end) the gay rights politicians (democrats) kicked the amendment out. It also provided protection from losing benefits. In Canada as an example Catholic churches lost benefits for many of these similar areas due to how the laws were set up. The result was Church vs State, not separation of church and state. The democrats here, as well as you, are founding that same mentality.
As an example, psychotherapy (if you didn’t know the catholic church offers more of this than any other institution in the world) for damaged persons for example would be kicked from the program as being tax free (as in they charge only a minimal charge and don’t have to charge more due to being taxed, it is the lowest cost psychotherapy in the world) because they charged fees for celebratory costs in weddings. Weddings cost money, or should we all just have a free wedding and not use the priests we want?
You see one side of things and are narrow minded, just like the republicans you argue against.
I will admit, that both Suze and Perplexed are way out of line in their commentary and I myself find it disheartening. However, your reply does not help direct the problem, contradicts the religion you say you are a part of (blatantly lying that the bible supports gay marriage) and simultaneously tries to allow separation of church and state to end.
Civil Unions undeniably are the best route to implementing a gay marriage law. In the absence of that, the provisions in the republican gay marriage bill would suffice. Your side commingles church and state just as much.
If the ‘sanctity’ of your marriage is threatened by someone else’s marriage – whether gay or straight – you really need to re-evaluate your own relationship.
“It is simply an expression of Pennsylvania’s traditional and longstanding policy of moral opposition to same-sex marriages.”
Good for you PA!
If this country was founded on bibilical teachings then the church would not allow priests to molest alter boys that were there to serve the church, that is SINFUL. Also the bible does say Jesus loves everyone regardless of race or sex. There is nothing sinful with loving someone regardless of what sex they are and if they choice to get married they should have the same rights as everyone else. The sanctity of marriage is two people in love and choice to be married, isn’t that what marriage is, who cares what sex they are, love is no different for a straight couple then for a gay couple.
Blue – Sin abounds and the Catholic church is just one of many examples. The bible doesn’t support their demands that priests abstain from marriage! Maybe they wouldn’t have so much of their disgusting molestation of boys if their priests were allowed to marry, but I digress. You’re right that the Lord loves no matter what race, but He is not mocked. He states that those that love him will keep His commandments. Homosexuality is definitely a lifestyle in opposition of God. Read Romans chapter 2. Please don’t try to justify the deviant lifestyle of the homosexual as something that is approved of by our Maker. It just isn’t supported in His word
So is eating shellfish, tattoos, and mixing different fabrics. Man, thank GOD this country isn’t ruled by any religion’s law. Ever notice how many Commandments are broken by Constitutional Amendments – heck, The Bill of Rights alone, the First Amendment alone?
Capt. you don’t read enough of the bible to comment on it. You go back to the old testament and drag up the law of Moses, which was a divine law, but when Jesus fulfilled the law the fabric mixing, shellfish, tattoo etc. laws no longer had to be kept. By the way, in depth study of the Law of Moses would reveal symbolism that God wanted his people to meditate on to direct them to His holiness. You scoff and use those things seemingly to prove points, but your shallow understanding of those laws is evident. You don’t care enough to search out, and you don’t care what your Creator thinks so you should quit “quoting” what you think is in the bible.
And you judge me without knowing me. I attend church regularly, have read the Bible multiple times (and continue to read it), was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school from 8th grade through high school graduation, did the CCD thing when attending public school, have been Baptised, Confirmed, and believe myself to be a spiritual person. God has told me through much meditation and prayer that discriminating against gays is not His way and Jesus taught all of us in scripture to love everyone, even your enemies. Look at those Jesus surruonded Himself with. You really think Jesus would stand against gay people?
Captain, you received a direct revelation from God telling you that you should accept the homosexual lifestyle and support it? Strange that He would change His written word to advise you of that. Jesus did not tolerate unrepentant, prideful sinners. you need to read with an open mind when you read the word. You obviously haven’t read Romans chapter 2, have you? Yes, I do think Jesus will stand against gay people. He stood strongly against the scribes and pharisees and called them hypocrites. When he forgave someone it was because they repented! Please read the scripture for your information and quit putting words in the Almighty’s mouth. NO WHERE does the word support what you’re spouting to be truth.
No where does “the Word” support your attitude of hate, intolerance, and disdain. Jesus would be ashamed of you calling yourself a Christian.
2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself.
Libby:
Passing judgement in biblical times was basically punishment.
Allow me to demonstrate:
Let he who has sin cast the first stone. The judgement being passed was the decision that the sin merited being stoned.
The bible in revelations spoke of churches that God did not approve of because they tolerated sin in their ranks and made no effort to cast it out.
The bible talks about many tiers, but the basics are:
Believe in Jesus.
Repent of sin.
Remove sin.
Do not be luke warm of sin.
Do not pass judgement (incur punishment to sinful people)
What it adds up to is basically don’t tolerate sin, don’t perpetuate sin by doing sins just because someone else is sinning, and don’t spread hate. Going around for example and saying that gays will not be forgiven in the eyes of God, would only be sinful if you started saying it in a judgmental fashion for example “you will go to hell” or “you are an abomination” and of the such. If you simply said “What you’re doing is wrong” you would be within your bounds Biblically.
Though as I’ve said before, I don’t believe in the bible. I believe in being consistent though if you do. I probably have much more research hours into the bible than you, and I can tell you that you and planet are not consistent.
You are far too immature, and lack far too much research in the bible.
Food laws are not commandment laws or “sinful” laws. As an interesting note: Most the food laws are just plain healthier to do. For example when it comes to eating a certain type of bird, there are birds in that group that have a protein chain that is literally harmful to the health of human beings. That’s why you weren’t to eat that bird. It wasn’t that it was “sinful” to eat the bird. Those “laws” were tribal laws. You clearly don’t know the difference.
You seem to disregard old testament laws that you believe are extreme and then follow what you do believe, pick and choose religion. I love it.
Research the bible more before you make such boyish comments as “So is eating shellfish, tattoos, and mixing different fabrics. Man, thank GOD this country isn’t ruled by any religion’s law” which show you know nothing about the bible and also that you are so ready to disregard what you believe in by attacking the credibility of the religion that you already follow.
Perplexed,
I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic elementary and high school, was baptised and confirmed. The Bible teaches you to LOVE your fellow man, not HATE. It doesnt matter what religion you are love is the same if you are gay or straight, you dont love any less if you are gay. If your friend or family member was gay and fell in love would you disown them for being who they are and if they fell in love would you be the one to tell them they cant married, even though you can marry the one you love because your straight….Really come on now this is 2013, two gay people falling in love or getting married doesnt effect your life either way, gay people are just that GAY….so let them live their lives the way they want to and let them have the same rights everyone else does becasue they are NO different then any one else!
Sadly, Blue, many families disown and throw out their LGBTQ children/siblings. I am appalled every time I read a story about kids thrown out of their homes. I can’t imagine abandoning my children like that. There are many types of evil in the world and I cannot believe that love is one of them. If two people love each other and want to commit their lives to being together, they should. It doesn’t make my het marriage any less legal or loving just because a same sex couple marries.
Blue:
A: Your premise is both immature and incorrect. Founded based on beliefs is different than run by. The government doesn’t run churches. Priests molesting alter boys is an emotional charged statement that you are an insanely unethical person for having put in there trying to tie into any institution whether government or religious.
B: Read the bible. Jesus loves all but does not forgive all. See my phrase about “go and sin no more”. I’m not religious, but this is just an undeniable fact: Jesus and or God would never join a single sex couple in marriage. Any religion that is trying to modify the bible to do this is out of line and risks being a type of religion that puts religious issues into the hands of man, which is extremely dangerous. A government marriage is fine with me. It makes sense and that way we won’t have governments or the whimsical behavior of humans affecting religious beliefs or molding them. While you blame zealots for things like the inquisition, I blame PEOPLE who twisted religious beliefs. I agree it is extremely risky to give power to churches. That power comes from giving them the ability to change biblical teachings.
C: If you believe in the bible, there is no such thing as love between two gay people. It is as the bible puts it “an abomination”.
D: If you don’t believe in the bible, don’t try to change the bible’s words to match up with your belief. That mindset causes wars that kings and rulers have tried to do for centuries. Think Joseph Smith regarding blacks in the Mormon bible.
And it looks like the PA Attorney General won’t be defending the case against the ACLU. :)
“She quoted from Pennsylvania’s Constitution forbidding discrimination “against any person” and said that “disparate treatment” based on race, religion and ethnic origin were no longer tolerated, and “it is now the time here in Pennsylvania to end another wave of discrimination.””
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/us/pennsylvanias-attorney-general-wont-fight-gay-marriage-lawsuit.html?_r=0
Finally! I am proud of PA for the first time since moving here.
Jesus died for all sinners and yes, we all have fallen short of the Glory of God.
He loves everyone, including homosexuals. What He doesn’t approve of is sin, in any way, shape or form. It’s the act, not the person. The person can be forgiven, one only has to ask.
That is why pride is so deadly.
Jesus left an empty grave, why else would almost all His friends allow themselves to be executed for His Name’s sake?
Incorrect in only one area that is a misconception of most Christians:
When Jesus forgave he would say the phrase “go and sin no more”.
The person did not simply have to ask. They had to no longer engage in the sin. When the first pope so to speak struck a person dead with the holy spirit, the reason he was struck dead was that he had no intention of changing unless God caught him in his lie.
That person was a member of God’s church. That person believed in God and believed God would forgive him. His sin that got him struck down was that he believed he could simply be forgiven and still do the sin.
There are many more examples. The bible is clear that you are to do penance. In the old testament it was sacrifices. In the new testament it is belief in Jesus, the asking of forgiveness of sins, and repentance. Repentance was also spoken of often. Repentance was the removal of sin.
The goal of Jesus was not to allow for sin to continue to exist as long as you believed in God. It was to destroy sin in it’s entirety through Jesus being forgiving. Do you honestly believe that God sought to just have people believe in him?
If that were the case he would reveal himself now. Then we would all believe wouldn’t we?
I say, hooray for the PA Attorney General. Let’s legalize marriage for gays, make the divorce lawyers happy, and move on to the next issue, legalizing marijuana. Now, where in the Bible does it say that is a sin? Goodness gracious, there is no seperation of church and state in these many comments. It’s a lesson in the many interpations of the Bible and heaven help the person who thinks the Bible is just a book.