Has he uncovered some wrong-doing? Yes, certainly.
However….
The “wrong-doing” versus the punishment companies receive is all out of whack. They’re not paying for the minor violations he’s uncovered, they’re paying for the flamethrower he threatens to put on them in the public media if they don’t give him a payoff.
He’s costing thousands of people their jobs — simply to further his political life. I wouldn’t use terms like “due process” to excite people, I’d point out that he’s blackmailing corporations into giving him payoffs that look like “legal victories” — but are more akin to neighborhood thugs collecting payoffs for Tammany Hall.
Robin Hood? No.
Boss Tweed? Yes.
Who really ends up paying in the end? The workers who lose their jobs, and the customers who pay higher prices, because the corporations have had to make cuts to compensate for the blackmail.
The closest analogy would be if he was a meter maid who has discovered that you might be five minutes over on your parking meter – YET – threatens to give you a ticket that says: “PEDOPHILE/RAPIST PARKING VIOLATION – PLEASE PAY IN FRONT OF THE NATIONAL MEDIA — Charge: $100,000,000.”
I assume someone, somewhere has made dumber remarks than the ones made by Ernie Csiszar in your article on Spitzer’s insurance investigation, but Ernie must be right up there with the dumbest of all time. First he admits that if there were crimes committed they should be prosecuted. Spitzer did find crimes and he did prosecute. Then he goes on to say we (I assume he means the insurance industry) “have been defenseless over the years and its our fault”. It sounds like that’s an admission that the insurance industry has failed to police itself and that government (let’s remember that Ernie was a state insurance regulator)has also failed to protect consumers against the industry’s bad actors. I must Mr. Csiszar really can’t make an intelligent argument against Spitzer’s work but feels the need to say anything that comes out of his mouth, regardless of how baseless it is.
McCarthyism? Saddam Hussein? Whereas Spitzer’s investigations may be self-serving and political oriented, any comparison to McCarthy (not to mention the bizarre, tactless Suddam Hussein line) is laughable. The Spitzer witch hunt may be immediately harmful to the insurance industry, but will likely help in the long run. While these attacks may be hard to swallow, the truth is, if laws are being broken and customers are not receiving the best product, there needs to be change. I understand the argument that practices similar to the charges put forth by Spitzer are taking place throughout the entire business world. Still, that doesn’t mean that Insurance should be taken off the hook since they’ve been “unfairly” singled out. Instead, all businesses should be held accoutable, and any smart company will look at the dealings in the Insurance industry and clean things up.
I know that Spitzer is an easy target and that’s he’s made life hell for a lot of insurance people. But we must remember, Spitzer was inevitable. With the multi-billion dollar industry being run by an Old Gentelman’s Club and the recent exposure of misdealings at Enron Worldcom, etc, it was only a matter of time until someone started investigating behind the scenes. To attack Spitzer’s political motives is easy, but effectively misdirecting and almost childish. What the industry needs is someone to take the high road, to embrace the more transparent direction the industry is heading towards, and try and make this work instead of dragging their feet and delaying the inevitable.
The insurance industry is long overdue for the kind of exposure it’s getting. As for Spitzer and a possible conflict of interest, well that’s just the way it goes. No one complains when political ambitions coincide with corporate profits.
Isn’t it incredible that the insurance industry has the nerve to whine about how they have been done wrong?
They certainly have never taken any pity on “whiners” while their industry makes obscene profits on the backs of the little “whiners” that have been made to fight for proper claims settlements.
I for one am glad to hear them feel a need to whine. I hope it escalates to the point that they soon feel the need to pitch full blown hissy fit! lol
The sad result of all this is that people are loosing jobs ( I am not talking about the higher ups)and Spitzer could care less. He has his own agenda and doesn’t care who is hurt.
– it is entirely possible to obey the law and maintain a profitable insurance company
– when people lose their jobs due to wrongdoings and illegal practices by a few employees is high positions, it is those higher ups who break the law, not those who investigate, that should be punished (no matter if it is spitzer investigating or if it had been president bush who had started a panel to investigate). it really does sucks that people lose their jobs, but place the blame where it belongs.
– anyone who compares the deception at AIG with a metermaid going on tv and calling a driver a “rapist/pedophile” who was 5 minutes over his meter time, is either delusional or a fool.
The problem with Spitzer is that he loves himself and the media frenzy he has created. Other than the bid-rigging at Marsh, none of the other brokers that have been blackmailed into paying million broke the law. The threat of Spitzer coming in and seizing all your email for three years and making your life hell as well as the press immediately calling you guilty is the “McCarthyism” being referred to.
It is good to have someone debating Spitzer and questioning his motives. Some wrong business practices happened and should stop. Everyone agrees, but since ALL insurance people are already seen as untrustworthy by the public, more public outcires by Spitzer are bad for the industry and there should be discussion and debate. Most people in insurance are honorable, but what must the public think?
Csiszar is making the comments that all of us innocent insurance agents want to say, but are afraid to say as we don’t want to draw attention to our agencies. Spitzer may be peaking too soon for his political ambitions so he needs to continue his crusade and open up more agencies and companies. Csiszar is correct in that the trial is being held in the media in order to increase the punishment. Otherwise, both Greenbergs would still be employed.
Ultimately, the insurance industry will survive. If Mr. Spitzer makes it stronger by tearing away a veneer of respectability in the form of corporate heads like Mr. Greenberg, then it probably would have happened anyway by some other investigator or news media individual. My resentment here is that all insurance professionals are viewed as bid riggers or frauds, and Mr. Spitzer exacerbated the illusion by promising to investigate all levels of insurance sales, including personal lines carriers and brokers, by implying that the problems he uncovered are happening on a massive level everywhere. And now, every state insurance commissioner with a political agenda of his or her own has trumpeted their own investigations into the companies and brokers in their state. I have a hunch that the next fender bender that Mr. Spitzer has that causes his premium to increase will be an expensive one. Can you imagine getting the call from Mr. Spitzer wanting a quote on his insurance because his renewal rate is too high?
C may be “only 22”, but I personally think C’s and others’ posts provided some important perspective. I’ve been watching this whole fiasco since Spitzer first started his investigations, and the ad hominem attacks now being made on Spitzer are precisely the kind that were being levelled then, too. As the findings and investigations have escalated so have the attacks, which don’t help us at all.
Csiszar is correct, the industry is looking pretty bad when each new AIG or similar revelation comes to light. However, the comments he’s making are likely to do us more harm than good. Making analogies with Saddam Hussein and terrorists are quickly coming on par with analogies to Hitler, and that is almost *always* emotionally volatile ground that is best left untread in official discussions. It’s far too easy for that to come across as hot-headed and defensive, with nothing more than personal attacks left in our arsenal.
I’m afraid that the more this kind of “communique” goes on, the more we may look like poor sports who can’t tolerate someone looking too closely at our industry. Plus, if you want to tar legislative/investigative/policy efforts with the political/profit ambitions label, remember that it’s a broad brush that easily paints us, too. PCI is regularly issuing bulletins to members guiding us toward the right policies and candidates to support to ensure decisions are made that are “favorable to the industry”. Could this amount to a private blackball list for industry lobbying and contribution dollars? I don’t see it that way, but I could see how someone could turn it into that, so we shouldn’t encourage others to throw the second stone.
Oh, and apologies for the “Vitamin C” pun there. Living in Florida and loving oranges, they’re always on my mind, so I couldn’t help myself!
“The sad result of all this is that people are loosing jobs ( I am not talking about the higher ups)and Spitzer could care less.”
That would be “losing” jobs, and he “could not care less”. If he “could care less” as you say, then he must care somewhat. But if he didn’t care at all, then he couldn’t care less. Get it?
I am a regional sales director for a healthcare cost contaiment company, and, I think that Spitzer is not looking to correct wrong doings in the insurance industry. I have been in the industry for over 13 years and I have never seen such negativity generated in the media as Spitzer has done. He is out for political gain! And, the media always loves sensationalism, whether it is good, or, bad. I am not saying that the industry is perfect, but, you do not have to destroy a house to fix a leaking pipe.
It’s hard to take seriously any of Csiszar’s charges against Sptizer when Csiszar moves from a regulator of the industry (as commish in SC) to top lobbyist of a trade organization in the same industry!
Csiszar’s comments show a suprprising ignorance of American history. To equate Elliot Spitzer with the alcholic Senator Joe McCarthy is intellectually dishonest and an obvious attempt at distracting attention from the real problems that Spitzer is investigating, along with the SEC and the FBI. Csiszar points to Spitzer’s political ambitions as a “conflict of interest”…if anything, investigation of bid rigging and unfair competition in the interest of the public (MMC settled for over $800 million!) would eminently qualify Mr. Spitzer for political office far more than the casually dishonest allegations of Mr. Csiszar!
If Mr. Csiszar’s accused association members conducted their business in the public interest and with a sense of integrity, they would not be in the media spotlight right now! Perhaps he should accuse the spate of industry takeovers and consolidations that have heightened the importance of profits over underwriting integrity over the past 10 years.
I have to second the comments by Don P and several others. There is nothing to be gained by the industry sweeping its dirt under the rug. It must see the light of day! This will promote fairness for all.
Csiszar’s comments are not worthy of someone who is supposed to represent the industry with honor and integrity…more that of a cockroach scurrying for cover.
And PLEASE! Defenseless??? The big 3 make what, over a trillion USD a year? Give us a break.
I’m with you Mica. Has everybody else lost their minds? Csiszar must be mentally impaired to equate Eliot with Saddam. People lost their jobs because of their corrupt management, not becuase of Spitzer. He is doing his job and he’s got my vote for Governor.
I prefer to equate him with Teddy Roosevelt and wish him luck in all his political ambition. He won’t stop with the insurance industry and we will all benefit from his “terrorism”.
This speaker should not compare the terrorism caused by brutal dictators to the insurance and/or other industries who have been righted by Spitzer’s involvement. I don’t think that the “wrongs” by these companies would have killed, injured or destroyed people, families or their property. A little less drama, please or could it be he was looking for a little media action himself?
While I abhor those actually-committed acts of impropriety by certain insurance brokers and companies, Mr. Csiszar’s criticism of Mr. Spitzer is right on target and timely. Like his choice of words or not, Mr. Csiszar was correct to voice the feelings of much of our industry about Spitzer’s actions and I appreciate his stepping forward and doing it. Spitzer has in effect indicted the entire industry for a few acts of a few people. Spitzer has threatened various companies in the industry to the point that the dread the prospect of his pointed investigations. Insurance regulators, always “thin-skinned” about their regulative effectiveness, and insurance company executives, have knuckled under to Spitzer innuendo. Whatever his ambitions, Spitzer’s prosecution by public attack through the media is without objectivity and produces no benefit to the public and unfairly does immense damage to the insurance industry for no purpose except Spitzer’s own designs. Its time for companies and regulators alike to tell Sptizer and others to “show me what is illegal” before we disrupt the entire industry.
Ken S.
Kenneth, I think you are missing the point. For an industry leader and spokesman, Mr. Csiszar’s choice of language, glib dishonesty and innuendo reflects poorly on the rest of the industry at a time we are trying to put our best foot forward. Obviously, this is more than a few dishonest acts by a few people, it is a way of doing business that is not in the best interest of the policy holders and the public. Mr. Spitzer has demonstrated this time and again.
Would you also tar the US attorneys general, the SEC and the FBI with the same brush? Yes, for the short term, the industry is under pressure to comply with Elliot Spitzer’s investigation at great cost in terms of time and expense, but the long term outcome should benefit us all.
Mr. Csiszar’s comments may play well with the members of his industry group but they are cavalier and grossly exagerated. Let’s stop calling any activity or action we don’t like “terrorism’. Let’s reserve that term for what happened to real victims of ‘terrorism’ like those on ‘9/11’ or elsewhere.
The fact that Eliot Spitzer may have higher political ambitions does not make the people and industries he’s taken to task any less guilty. All the parties who have reached ‘settlement’ with Spitzer have done so only because they knew they were guilty of the misdeeds that Spitzer had accused or charged them with.
Politically the worst thing that could happen to Eliot Spitzer would be that he wrongly accuses or indicts someone because people like Mr. Csiszar would love to be able to ‘nail’ him. The fact is todate Mr. Spitzer has done his homework and accurately identified his targets.
Mr. Csiszar should spend less time throwing around incindiary comments like ‘terrorism’ and ‘McCathyism’ and make sure that all his association members operate legally and ethically. No doubt AIG was a member of his association and Mr. Greenberg was probably revered as as one of their icons.
Any industry that spends as much money on lobbying and makes millions of dollars of political contributions to have it ‘their way’ probably is not operating in the best interests of the public. I for one welcome Mr. Spitzer’s spolight as it has todate always proven to be very illuminating.
If any innocent employees lose their job they and we should not blame Eliot Spitzer but rather blame the management (including the company’s board of directors)of the corrupt companies. Had the Marsh board or the AIG board done their jobs, their employees might not now be in jeopardy of losing their jobs.
It seems the only ‘real’ fault anyone has found with Spitzer is that he may have higher political ambitions. If anyone deserves a ‘promotion’ to a bigger political office it is Spitzer. He has done what none of the other 49 Attorney Generals, the U.S. Justice Dept. and/ or the SEC have done or should have done.
If we are examining ‘political’ motives, perhaps we should also question Mr. Csiszar’s political ambitions. No doubt bashing Elitot Spitzer wins him gold stars with his industry group and his Republican friends.
To pour Spitzer’s issues into the stream of bad behavior with Hank’s and the other good ole boys is like pouring an extra
bucket of water over Niagra Falls. Let each bad boy atone for his own and quit comparing misdemeanors with felonies.
It is good to see someone of your status speak up. It seems that folks don’t understand that Spitzer is helping the industry. There are many companies, brokers, agents, etc out there that are playing by the rules. Spitzer is helping them by getting rid of unfair competition. He cannot get everyone but he can use the media to bring attention to these issues so that more people take up the banner.
This deal about a hurting a defenseless industry is absurd. People will not stop purchasing home, vehicle, business, health, etc insurance because of Spitzer. They might however understand some of the goings on better than before and be better informed when making decisions.
The light of truth, honor, and integrity will help strengthen the industry, not hurt it. Profits from unfair practices hurt companies by putting money in individuals pockets. This attention can only help the industry!
Ernie is speaking to the “tactics” of Spitzer who is using the “typical trial lawyer tactic” of trying and convicting people in the media, and he is absolutely correct in his analysis.Hopefully, Ernie will continue on the attack to have the investigation placed in the proper forum and the media is certainly not the proper forum. By prosecuting in the media, Spitzer makes all the innocents in the industry look guilty to their neighbors and friends. Ernie has the intellect, intergrity, background and current postion to reign Spitzer in, or at least provide a voice for all those in the industry who operate in an honorable and ethical manner on a daily basis, year after year after year. Keep it up Ernie !!!! It’s not what Spitzer is doing, it’s the way he is doing it. Spitzer’s tactic of “Kill ’em all and let God sort it out” should never be acceptable in a civilized society. Spitzer is definately using terrorists style tactics and the entire insurance industry looks bad today because of his tactics. I’m just wondering when someone is going to file charges against Spitzer with the New York Bar Association for his violation of many Cannons of Ethics during this investigation………..this is the easiest way to deal with any attorney who has acted improperly. Maybe Ernie will have his attorneys start preparing a case in this regard. Even Spitzer has to abide by certain ethical standards. Again, it’s not what he is doing, but how he is doing it !!!!!!! Everybody wants the bad guys out of the industry……….but, let’s make sure the “bad guys” have their day in court and not convict them and the the entire industry in the media. Ask your friends and neighbors……….they will tell you that you and all others in the industry are GUILTY…………and there hasn’t even been a trial in a court……just TRIAL BY MEDIA. This is certainly not was intendede to be the American Way. THANKS ERNIE, KEEP IT GOING !!!!!!!!! Few are in the posture to do what you are doing. And it needs to be said. Until you spoke up there has been NO RESPONSE and a response to some of the tactics is needed.
While we can all speculate on the 9 guilty people at Marsh the were charged with the actual wrondoing, and the subsequent layoffs of the innocent (well over 3000 US employees), I can fully agree with Mica’s comments concerning the “pity party” that Marshans and other top ten brokers/carriers
have said they deserve- NOT! Every Marsh Zone office has it’s issues, and, for the rest of the insurance world, all of the Managing Directors at Marsh who were paid a stay bonus- amounting to $120,000,000 to keep the company together, I hope they walk out after realizing the company is falling apart and has abandoned them. More than likely, we will see the shift of business from Marsh since the name is so tarnished no amount of positive advertising can polish it to be presentable again. Mr. Cherkasky mentioned in his conference call to the investor community early this last quarter that he really did not care if employees walked out with the disposal of “unprofitable business”. For all of us listening, that was truly a different side of his poker face than we really needed to see with all the corporate lies and stress.
Sorry, this attorney (Mike C.)clearly does not understand this boker/cleint relationship business, does he??? As one who was RIFFED (Reduction in Force)after the first quarter this year, the only positve (if even that) part of the Marsh experience I can point to is the blurb on my resume’. Good luck to all who are stuck handling the work from all the folks walking out on Marsh. Glad for all who have had the nerve to leave. Marsh has truly walked out on it’s employees…get ready for RIF’s each quarter..
No doubt the insurance industry has not felt this kind of pressure for reform since the 1967 riots produced the FAIR plans and regulators started to promote no-fault automobile and residual market rules in the 1970s.
You complain that innocents are being branded along with the guilty…innocents who have the highest bill in Washington for lobbying on their legislative priorities, innocents who can not regulate themselves without government intervention.
At a recent forum, I asked the CEO of a major, respected US insurer why TRIA, why can’t we come up with a reinsurance solution for terrorism coverage without a backstop, if we can model the risk and accurately predict its impacts. The answer was that those who would take on the risk are already taking on the most risk and would endanger the industry by potentially taking the rest of the industry down with them in the event of a serious loss. In other words, the insurance industry can not regulate itself in a competitive climate.
As a broker, I have been shocked by the negative opinion of most non-industry observers of the pre-Elliot Spitzer insurance industry. Yes, the industry has received negative publicity. This is necessary for reform.
When an industry’s questionable ways of doing business are pervasive and accepted within the industry, this type of frontal attack is necessary for reform. I would like you to cite one example where an industry reformed itself on its own and reduced its share of contribution to the economy as a result, for higher moral purpose.
You seem to support the intellectually dishonest words of a demagogue if it suits your purpose. That is the very act you are wrongfully complaining about. I am embarrassed to have someone represent my industry through such inflammatory and libelous language. You would support Ezra Pound’s support of the Nazis? We be be served far better by an industry spokesman with intellectual integrity and a higher level of political sophistication.
Well said. If all the remaining heads of Marsh that are truly jaded-(ughh,I have yet to meet one that does not have the “I can be bought” sticker on his forehead, the industry would have faster reform.
DonP, Thank you for your rational opinions and your response to Jon. It is important to have this forum to exchange ideas and opinions but some of the ignorance displayed in certain responses is alarming. Trial by Media??? Of course, if they actually went to court they would wind up in jail where criminals belong.
Jenny, it is a trial in the media. Free publicity to promote Mr. Spitzer’s political career. That is not to say that what Mr. Spitzer is doing is not right, it is saying that it should be handled without all the fanfare. By the way, what happens to the $850 million in the fines? I thought it went to the clients affected by what Marsh did, yet today I read of 7 different class action suits against Marsh for what they did. Trial in the media = publicity = more suits!
Jon, the innocents are the agents like me, struggling to build a reputtable business, not the conglomerates with all the money and influence on capitol hill. Quite frankly, all this bad hype for Marsh, Aon, Willis and the others is good for my agency as we can use our integrity to steal an account here and there. However, it is now our integrity in question bacause of all the media hype.
it is in the course of nature that the children must pay for the sins of the father. and i quote mr.greenberg, “i must complete my journey to the darkside so i can fulfill my destiny”. where did i hear that before?
I think Drudy that you’ve heard that quote before from Uncle Joey of Full House. It’s from that episode where he buys DJ Tanner a car without getting the pink slip, only to find out it was stolen. He later tries to give away his Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pajamas and I think winds up on a donkey at the end.
I thought it was a quote from the Ultimate Warrior during his Pro-Wrestling Days, weeks before the Wrestlemania VI when he defeated Hulk Hogan for the belt.
Sorry guys, I think it was a blurb from one of the last Star Wars episodes…
Question- does the Greenbergs get along now that son has stepped down from Marsh, and, daddy does notdo daily control over the AIG Empire-where does ACE and son#2 fit in?? I wonder what Thanksgiving will be like this year!?
This is what I was talking about: Today, West Virginia is suing Acordia for earning fees based on steering accounts to carriers with contingency agreements. If Acordia did this without regard to their client’s needs, then I hope they pay dearly. My issue is that Spitzer is publicising his actions to the extent that others are just going to jump on the band wagon simply to promote themselves and not for the public interest.
I think you’re wrong. I worked at a mid-sized privately-held broker for 25 years, and they clearly pushed companies where they needed to fulfill a committment to gain their contingent or profit sharing. There is not doubt in my mind that this affects brokers and customers of every size. We were instructed to either move accounts where feasible on renewal or to place new business to reach carriers’ targeted goals.
Shame on your company. I hope some DA with aspirations gets a whiff of this.
There are insurance agencies that receive contigent commissions but go through the process with integrity. We aren’t all bad, so don’t make the generalization.
I no longer work there, Mark, but that is the norm in the industry where accomplishment of insurer contract goals means a significant increase in annual income. I don’t know what level you’re working at, but this is pervasive at a management level in our industry, for all sizes of brokers/agencies. To ignore it would mean significantly lower income. The incentive to steer business is inherent in the current compensation system.
I am glad somebody has stood up to talk about Spitzer who has brought terror in this State just to get power. He raided my husbands office and charged him for overbilling. Being a foreign doctor he was threatened jail if he does not accept what he was charged. Mr. Spitzer demanded a huge restitution without accounting. Without a job, my husband has to pay the State not caring from where the money is going to come. Mr. Spitzer confiscated 1000 charts. Patients had to find another doctor. The other doctors could not diagnose them properly, they did not know what medication to give them as there were no charts.Their medications were stopped without giving them any notice. One patient killed himself because he could not bear the pain any more. Mr. Spitzer has not only ruined my husband’s life but our whole family’s life together with the one thousand patients who suffered not counting the one he has killed. You say terrorists are found outside this country. I think the Terrorists are living in this country who want to gain POWER by any means.
As they say: ‘the little wife is the last to know’. If Eliot Spitzer raided your husband’s medical office and charged him with overbilling, you should bet on Spitzer.
Medical providers who are ripping off insurers and our government are adding huge costs to the overall system. My hat is off to anyone putting these people in jail and seeking monetary restitution.
If your husband is innocent as you seem to believe, then fortunately for him we have a legal system that will allow him to have his day in court. If he turns out to be innocent, then you can throw stones at Spitzer and call him names.
Argie, you are ignorant of how politics work in the US. Spitzer must give up his office as AG in order to run for governor. Please keep your stupidity south of the border.
…. May 12, 2005, 2:42 pm CDT
Posted By: JAMES P. CORCORAN…..
Mr. Corcoran is the crook that allowed the looting of MONY detailed at http://www.SpitzerAG.com and http://www.GonzalesAG.com. He was the NY Superintendent from 1983 to 1991 and MONY’s former assistant General Counsel prior to being Super…
Is to point out that he’s not Robin Hood.
Has he uncovered some wrong-doing? Yes, certainly.
However….
The “wrong-doing” versus the punishment companies receive is all out of whack. They’re not paying for the minor violations he’s uncovered, they’re paying for the flamethrower he threatens to put on them in the public media if they don’t give him a payoff.
He’s costing thousands of people their jobs — simply to further his political life. I wouldn’t use terms like “due process” to excite people, I’d point out that he’s blackmailing corporations into giving him payoffs that look like “legal victories” — but are more akin to neighborhood thugs collecting payoffs for Tammany Hall.
Robin Hood? No.
Boss Tweed? Yes.
Who really ends up paying in the end? The workers who lose their jobs, and the customers who pay higher prices, because the corporations have had to make cuts to compensate for the blackmail.
The closest analogy would be if he was a meter maid who has discovered that you might be five minutes over on your parking meter – YET – threatens to give you a ticket that says: “PEDOPHILE/RAPIST PARKING VIOLATION – PLEASE PAY IN FRONT OF THE NATIONAL MEDIA — Charge: $100,000,000.”
Mr. Csiszar is such a straight shooter! Finally, someone who’s not afraid to speak out against Eliot Spitzer!
I assume someone, somewhere has made dumber remarks than the ones made by Ernie Csiszar in your article on Spitzer’s insurance investigation, but Ernie must be right up there with the dumbest of all time. First he admits that if there were crimes committed they should be prosecuted. Spitzer did find crimes and he did prosecute. Then he goes on to say we (I assume he means the insurance industry) “have been defenseless over the years and its our fault”. It sounds like that’s an admission that the insurance industry has failed to police itself and that government (let’s remember that Ernie was a state insurance regulator)has also failed to protect consumers against the industry’s bad actors. I must Mr. Csiszar really can’t make an intelligent argument against Spitzer’s work but feels the need to say anything that comes out of his mouth, regardless of how baseless it is.
McCarthyism? Saddam Hussein? Whereas Spitzer’s investigations may be self-serving and political oriented, any comparison to McCarthy (not to mention the bizarre, tactless Suddam Hussein line) is laughable. The Spitzer witch hunt may be immediately harmful to the insurance industry, but will likely help in the long run. While these attacks may be hard to swallow, the truth is, if laws are being broken and customers are not receiving the best product, there needs to be change. I understand the argument that practices similar to the charges put forth by Spitzer are taking place throughout the entire business world. Still, that doesn’t mean that Insurance should be taken off the hook since they’ve been “unfairly” singled out. Instead, all businesses should be held accoutable, and any smart company will look at the dealings in the Insurance industry and clean things up.
I know that Spitzer is an easy target and that’s he’s made life hell for a lot of insurance people. But we must remember, Spitzer was inevitable. With the multi-billion dollar industry being run by an Old Gentelman’s Club and the recent exposure of misdealings at Enron Worldcom, etc, it was only a matter of time until someone started investigating behind the scenes. To attack Spitzer’s political motives is easy, but effectively misdirecting and almost childish. What the industry needs is someone to take the high road, to embrace the more transparent direction the industry is heading towards, and try and make this work instead of dragging their feet and delaying the inevitable.
Of course, I’m only 22, so what do I know.
Csiszar for President in 2008
The insurance industry is long overdue for the kind of exposure it’s getting. As for Spitzer and a possible conflict of interest, well that’s just the way it goes. No one complains when political ambitions coincide with corporate profits.
Isn’t it incredible that the insurance industry has the nerve to whine about how they have been done wrong?
They certainly have never taken any pity on “whiners” while their industry makes obscene profits on the backs of the little “whiners” that have been made to fight for proper claims settlements.
I for one am glad to hear them feel a need to whine. I hope it escalates to the point that they soon feel the need to pitch full blown hissy fit! lol
The sad result of all this is that people are loosing jobs ( I am not talking about the higher ups)and Spitzer could care less. He has his own agenda and doesn’t care who is hurt.
– it is entirely possible to obey the law and maintain a profitable insurance company
– when people lose their jobs due to wrongdoings and illegal practices by a few employees is high positions, it is those higher ups who break the law, not those who investigate, that should be punished (no matter if it is spitzer investigating or if it had been president bush who had started a panel to investigate). it really does sucks that people lose their jobs, but place the blame where it belongs.
– anyone who compares the deception at AIG with a metermaid going on tv and calling a driver a “rapist/pedophile” who was 5 minutes over his meter time, is either delusional or a fool.
The problem with Spitzer is that he loves himself and the media frenzy he has created. Other than the bid-rigging at Marsh, none of the other brokers that have been blackmailed into paying million broke the law. The threat of Spitzer coming in and seizing all your email for three years and making your life hell as well as the press immediately calling you guilty is the “McCarthyism” being referred to.
It is good to have someone debating Spitzer and questioning his motives. Some wrong business practices happened and should stop. Everyone agrees, but since ALL insurance people are already seen as untrustworthy by the public, more public outcires by Spitzer are bad for the industry and there should be discussion and debate. Most people in insurance are honorable, but what must the public think?
Csiszar is making the comments that all of us innocent insurance agents want to say, but are afraid to say as we don’t want to draw attention to our agencies. Spitzer may be peaking too soon for his political ambitions so he needs to continue his crusade and open up more agencies and companies. Csiszar is correct in that the trial is being held in the media in order to increase the punishment. Otherwise, both Greenbergs would still be employed.
Ultimately, the insurance industry will survive. If Mr. Spitzer makes it stronger by tearing away a veneer of respectability in the form of corporate heads like Mr. Greenberg, then it probably would have happened anyway by some other investigator or news media individual. My resentment here is that all insurance professionals are viewed as bid riggers or frauds, and Mr. Spitzer exacerbated the illusion by promising to investigate all levels of insurance sales, including personal lines carriers and brokers, by implying that the problems he uncovered are happening on a massive level everywhere. And now, every state insurance commissioner with a political agenda of his or her own has trumpeted their own investigations into the companies and brokers in their state. I have a hunch that the next fender bender that Mr. Spitzer has that causes his premium to increase will be an expensive one. Can you imagine getting the call from Mr. Spitzer wanting a quote on his insurance because his renewal rate is too high?
C may be “only 22”, but I personally think C’s and others’ posts provided some important perspective. I’ve been watching this whole fiasco since Spitzer first started his investigations, and the ad hominem attacks now being made on Spitzer are precisely the kind that were being levelled then, too. As the findings and investigations have escalated so have the attacks, which don’t help us at all.
Csiszar is correct, the industry is looking pretty bad when each new AIG or similar revelation comes to light. However, the comments he’s making are likely to do us more harm than good. Making analogies with Saddam Hussein and terrorists are quickly coming on par with analogies to Hitler, and that is almost *always* emotionally volatile ground that is best left untread in official discussions. It’s far too easy for that to come across as hot-headed and defensive, with nothing more than personal attacks left in our arsenal.
I’m afraid that the more this kind of “communique” goes on, the more we may look like poor sports who can’t tolerate someone looking too closely at our industry. Plus, if you want to tar legislative/investigative/policy efforts with the political/profit ambitions label, remember that it’s a broad brush that easily paints us, too. PCI is regularly issuing bulletins to members guiding us toward the right policies and candidates to support to ensure decisions are made that are “favorable to the industry”. Could this amount to a private blackball list for industry lobbying and contribution dollars? I don’t see it that way, but I could see how someone could turn it into that, so we shouldn’t encourage others to throw the second stone.
Oh, and apologies for the “Vitamin C” pun there. Living in Florida and loving oranges, they’re always on my mind, so I couldn’t help myself!
“The sad result of all this is that people are loosing jobs ( I am not talking about the higher ups)and Spitzer could care less.”
That would be “losing” jobs, and he “could not care less”. If he “could care less” as you say, then he must care somewhat. But if he didn’t care at all, then he couldn’t care less. Get it?
Jeez Bryan, the guy is hurting. We get that you understand spelling and syntax. Now “loosen” up and attack Spitzer like everybody else. Get it?
I am a regional sales director for a healthcare cost contaiment company, and, I think that Spitzer is not looking to correct wrong doings in the insurance industry. I have been in the industry for over 13 years and I have never seen such negativity generated in the media as Spitzer has done. He is out for political gain! And, the media always loves sensationalism, whether it is good, or, bad. I am not saying that the industry is perfect, but, you do not have to destroy a house to fix a leaking pipe.
It’s hard to take seriously any of Csiszar’s charges against Sptizer when Csiszar moves from a regulator of the industry (as commish in SC) to top lobbyist of a trade organization in the same industry!
Csiszar’s comments show a suprprising ignorance of American history. To equate Elliot Spitzer with the alcholic Senator Joe McCarthy is intellectually dishonest and an obvious attempt at distracting attention from the real problems that Spitzer is investigating, along with the SEC and the FBI. Csiszar points to Spitzer’s political ambitions as a “conflict of interest”…if anything, investigation of bid rigging and unfair competition in the interest of the public (MMC settled for over $800 million!) would eminently qualify Mr. Spitzer for political office far more than the casually dishonest allegations of Mr. Csiszar!
If Mr. Csiszar’s accused association members conducted their business in the public interest and with a sense of integrity, they would not be in the media spotlight right now! Perhaps he should accuse the spate of industry takeovers and consolidations that have heightened the importance of profits over underwriting integrity over the past 10 years.
I have to second the comments by Don P and several others. There is nothing to be gained by the industry sweeping its dirt under the rug. It must see the light of day! This will promote fairness for all.
Csiszar’s comments are not worthy of someone who is supposed to represent the industry with honor and integrity…more that of a cockroach scurrying for cover.
And PLEASE! Defenseless??? The big 3 make what, over a trillion USD a year? Give us a break.
…is to run a clean and ethical industry
whether at a local brokerage or a Manhattan office tower!!!
I’m with you Mica. Has everybody else lost their minds? Csiszar must be mentally impaired to equate Eliot with Saddam. People lost their jobs because of their corrupt management, not becuase of Spitzer. He is doing his job and he’s got my vote for Governor.
I prefer to equate him with Teddy Roosevelt and wish him luck in all his political ambition. He won’t stop with the insurance industry and we will all benefit from his “terrorism”.
This speaker should not compare the terrorism caused by brutal dictators to the insurance and/or other industries who have been righted by Spitzer’s involvement. I don’t think that the “wrongs” by these companies would have killed, injured or destroyed people, families or their property. A little less drama, please or could it be he was looking for a little media action himself?
Bravo!
While I abhor those actually-committed acts of impropriety by certain insurance brokers and companies, Mr. Csiszar’s criticism of Mr. Spitzer is right on target and timely. Like his choice of words or not, Mr. Csiszar was correct to voice the feelings of much of our industry about Spitzer’s actions and I appreciate his stepping forward and doing it. Spitzer has in effect indicted the entire industry for a few acts of a few people. Spitzer has threatened various companies in the industry to the point that the dread the prospect of his pointed investigations. Insurance regulators, always “thin-skinned” about their regulative effectiveness, and insurance company executives, have knuckled under to Spitzer innuendo. Whatever his ambitions, Spitzer’s prosecution by public attack through the media is without objectivity and produces no benefit to the public and unfairly does immense damage to the insurance industry for no purpose except Spitzer’s own designs. Its time for companies and regulators alike to tell Sptizer and others to “show me what is illegal” before we disrupt the entire industry.
Ken S.
Kenneth, I think you are missing the point. For an industry leader and spokesman, Mr. Csiszar’s choice of language, glib dishonesty and innuendo reflects poorly on the rest of the industry at a time we are trying to put our best foot forward. Obviously, this is more than a few dishonest acts by a few people, it is a way of doing business that is not in the best interest of the policy holders and the public. Mr. Spitzer has demonstrated this time and again.
Would you also tar the US attorneys general, the SEC and the FBI with the same brush? Yes, for the short term, the industry is under pressure to comply with Elliot Spitzer’s investigation at great cost in terms of time and expense, but the long term outcome should benefit us all.
Mr. Csiszar’s comments may play well with the members of his industry group but they are cavalier and grossly exagerated. Let’s stop calling any activity or action we don’t like “terrorism’. Let’s reserve that term for what happened to real victims of ‘terrorism’ like those on ‘9/11’ or elsewhere.
The fact that Eliot Spitzer may have higher political ambitions does not make the people and industries he’s taken to task any less guilty. All the parties who have reached ‘settlement’ with Spitzer have done so only because they knew they were guilty of the misdeeds that Spitzer had accused or charged them with.
Politically the worst thing that could happen to Eliot Spitzer would be that he wrongly accuses or indicts someone because people like Mr. Csiszar would love to be able to ‘nail’ him. The fact is todate Mr. Spitzer has done his homework and accurately identified his targets.
Mr. Csiszar should spend less time throwing around incindiary comments like ‘terrorism’ and ‘McCathyism’ and make sure that all his association members operate legally and ethically. No doubt AIG was a member of his association and Mr. Greenberg was probably revered as as one of their icons.
Any industry that spends as much money on lobbying and makes millions of dollars of political contributions to have it ‘their way’ probably is not operating in the best interests of the public. I for one welcome Mr. Spitzer’s spolight as it has todate always proven to be very illuminating.
If any innocent employees lose their job they and we should not blame Eliot Spitzer but rather blame the management (including the company’s board of directors)of the corrupt companies. Had the Marsh board or the AIG board done their jobs, their employees might not now be in jeopardy of losing their jobs.
It seems the only ‘real’ fault anyone has found with Spitzer is that he may have higher political ambitions. If anyone deserves a ‘promotion’ to a bigger political office it is Spitzer. He has done what none of the other 49 Attorney Generals, the U.S. Justice Dept. and/ or the SEC have done or should have done.
If we are examining ‘political’ motives, perhaps we should also question Mr. Csiszar’s political ambitions. No doubt bashing Elitot Spitzer wins him gold stars with his industry group and his Republican friends.
To pour Spitzer’s issues into the stream of bad behavior with Hank’s and the other good ole boys is like pouring an extra
bucket of water over Niagra Falls. Let each bad boy atone for his own and quit comparing misdemeanors with felonies.
Jim
‘m sorry, while you were all drifting of in your seats, which equats to much a do about this mess? Now, you speak up? better late than never!!!
Mr. Corcoran,
It is good to see someone of your status speak up. It seems that folks don’t understand that Spitzer is helping the industry. There are many companies, brokers, agents, etc out there that are playing by the rules. Spitzer is helping them by getting rid of unfair competition. He cannot get everyone but he can use the media to bring attention to these issues so that more people take up the banner.
This deal about a hurting a defenseless industry is absurd. People will not stop purchasing home, vehicle, business, health, etc insurance because of Spitzer. They might however understand some of the goings on better than before and be better informed when making decisions.
The light of truth, honor, and integrity will help strengthen the industry, not hurt it. Profits from unfair practices hurt companies by putting money in individuals pockets. This attention can only help the industry!
Mica Cooper,
CEO, Agency Insurance Services, U.S.
Ernie is speaking to the “tactics” of Spitzer who is using the “typical trial lawyer tactic” of trying and convicting people in the media, and he is absolutely correct in his analysis.Hopefully, Ernie will continue on the attack to have the investigation placed in the proper forum and the media is certainly not the proper forum. By prosecuting in the media, Spitzer makes all the innocents in the industry look guilty to their neighbors and friends. Ernie has the intellect, intergrity, background and current postion to reign Spitzer in, or at least provide a voice for all those in the industry who operate in an honorable and ethical manner on a daily basis, year after year after year. Keep it up Ernie !!!! It’s not what Spitzer is doing, it’s the way he is doing it. Spitzer’s tactic of “Kill ’em all and let God sort it out” should never be acceptable in a civilized society. Spitzer is definately using terrorists style tactics and the entire insurance industry looks bad today because of his tactics. I’m just wondering when someone is going to file charges against Spitzer with the New York Bar Association for his violation of many Cannons of Ethics during this investigation………..this is the easiest way to deal with any attorney who has acted improperly. Maybe Ernie will have his attorneys start preparing a case in this regard. Even Spitzer has to abide by certain ethical standards. Again, it’s not what he is doing, but how he is doing it !!!!!!! Everybody wants the bad guys out of the industry……….but, let’s make sure the “bad guys” have their day in court and not convict them and the the entire industry in the media. Ask your friends and neighbors……….they will tell you that you and all others in the industry are GUILTY…………and there hasn’t even been a trial in a court……just TRIAL BY MEDIA. This is certainly not was intendede to be the American Way. THANKS ERNIE, KEEP IT GOING !!!!!!!!! Few are in the posture to do what you are doing. And it needs to be said. Until you spoke up there has been NO RESPONSE and a response to some of the tactics is needed.
Folks,
While we can all speculate on the 9 guilty people at Marsh the were charged with the actual wrondoing, and the subsequent layoffs of the innocent (well over 3000 US employees), I can fully agree with Mica’s comments concerning the “pity party” that Marshans and other top ten brokers/carriers
have said they deserve- NOT! Every Marsh Zone office has it’s issues, and, for the rest of the insurance world, all of the Managing Directors at Marsh who were paid a stay bonus- amounting to $120,000,000 to keep the company together, I hope they walk out after realizing the company is falling apart and has abandoned them. More than likely, we will see the shift of business from Marsh since the name is so tarnished no amount of positive advertising can polish it to be presentable again. Mr. Cherkasky mentioned in his conference call to the investor community early this last quarter that he really did not care if employees walked out with the disposal of “unprofitable business”. For all of us listening, that was truly a different side of his poker face than we really needed to see with all the corporate lies and stress.
Sorry, this attorney (Mike C.)clearly does not understand this boker/cleint relationship business, does he??? As one who was RIFFED (Reduction in Force)after the first quarter this year, the only positve (if even that) part of the Marsh experience I can point to is the blurb on my resume’. Good luck to all who are stuck handling the work from all the folks walking out on Marsh. Glad for all who have had the nerve to leave. Marsh has truly walked out on it’s employees…get ready for RIF’s each quarter..
Jon,
No doubt the insurance industry has not felt this kind of pressure for reform since the 1967 riots produced the FAIR plans and regulators started to promote no-fault automobile and residual market rules in the 1970s.
You complain that innocents are being branded along with the guilty…innocents who have the highest bill in Washington for lobbying on their legislative priorities, innocents who can not regulate themselves without government intervention.
At a recent forum, I asked the CEO of a major, respected US insurer why TRIA, why can’t we come up with a reinsurance solution for terrorism coverage without a backstop, if we can model the risk and accurately predict its impacts. The answer was that those who would take on the risk are already taking on the most risk and would endanger the industry by potentially taking the rest of the industry down with them in the event of a serious loss. In other words, the insurance industry can not regulate itself in a competitive climate.
As a broker, I have been shocked by the negative opinion of most non-industry observers of the pre-Elliot Spitzer insurance industry. Yes, the industry has received negative publicity. This is necessary for reform.
When an industry’s questionable ways of doing business are pervasive and accepted within the industry, this type of frontal attack is necessary for reform. I would like you to cite one example where an industry reformed itself on its own and reduced its share of contribution to the economy as a result, for higher moral purpose.
You seem to support the intellectually dishonest words of a demagogue if it suits your purpose. That is the very act you are wrongfully complaining about. I am embarrassed to have someone represent my industry through such inflammatory and libelous language. You would support Ezra Pound’s support of the Nazis? We be be served far better by an industry spokesman with intellectual integrity and a higher level of political sophistication.
DonP:
Well said. If all the remaining heads of Marsh that are truly jaded-(ughh,I have yet to meet one that does not have the “I can be bought” sticker on his forehead, the industry would have faster reform.
DonP, Thank you for your rational opinions and your response to Jon. It is important to have this forum to exchange ideas and opinions but some of the ignorance displayed in certain responses is alarming. Trial by Media??? Of course, if they actually went to court they would wind up in jail where criminals belong.
Jenny, it is a trial in the media. Free publicity to promote Mr. Spitzer’s political career. That is not to say that what Mr. Spitzer is doing is not right, it is saying that it should be handled without all the fanfare. By the way, what happens to the $850 million in the fines? I thought it went to the clients affected by what Marsh did, yet today I read of 7 different class action suits against Marsh for what they did. Trial in the media = publicity = more suits!
Jon, the innocents are the agents like me, struggling to build a reputtable business, not the conglomerates with all the money and influence on capitol hill. Quite frankly, all this bad hype for Marsh, Aon, Willis and the others is good for my agency as we can use our integrity to steal an account here and there. However, it is now our integrity in question bacause of all the media hype.
Hallelujah, at last someone has had the guts to speak out. It is time to both clean house and rein in Spitzer’s ambitions.
it is in the course of nature that the children must pay for the sins of the father. and i quote mr.greenberg, “i must complete my journey to the darkside so i can fulfill my destiny”. where did i hear that before?
I think Drudy that you’ve heard that quote before from Uncle Joey of Full House. It’s from that episode where he buys DJ Tanner a car without getting the pink slip, only to find out it was stolen. He later tries to give away his Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pajamas and I think winds up on a donkey at the end.
Hope this helps!
I thought it was a quote from the Ultimate Warrior during his Pro-Wrestling Days, weeks before the Wrestlemania VI when he defeated Hulk Hogan for the belt.
Sorry guys, I think it was a blurb from one of the last Star Wars episodes…
Question- does the Greenbergs get along now that son has stepped down from Marsh, and, daddy does notdo daily control over the AIG Empire-where does ACE and son#2 fit in?? I wonder what Thanksgiving will be like this year!?
This is what I was talking about: Today, West Virginia is suing Acordia for earning fees based on steering accounts to carriers with contingency agreements. If Acordia did this without regard to their client’s needs, then I hope they pay dearly. My issue is that Spitzer is publicising his actions to the extent that others are just going to jump on the band wagon simply to promote themselves and not for the public interest.
I think you’re wrong. I worked at a mid-sized privately-held broker for 25 years, and they clearly pushed companies where they needed to fulfill a committment to gain their contingent or profit sharing. There is not doubt in my mind that this affects brokers and customers of every size. We were instructed to either move accounts where feasible on renewal or to place new business to reach carriers’ targeted goals.
Shame on your company. I hope some DA with aspirations gets a whiff of this.
There are insurance agencies that receive contigent commissions but go through the process with integrity. We aren’t all bad, so don’t make the generalization.
I no longer work there, Mark, but that is the norm in the industry where accomplishment of insurer contract goals means a significant increase in annual income. I don’t know what level you’re working at, but this is pervasive at a management level in our industry, for all sizes of brokers/agencies. To ignore it would mean significantly lower income. The incentive to steer business is inherent in the current compensation system.
I am glad somebody has stood up to talk about Spitzer who has brought terror in this State just to get power. He raided my husbands office and charged him for overbilling. Being a foreign doctor he was threatened jail if he does not accept what he was charged. Mr. Spitzer demanded a huge restitution without accounting. Without a job, my husband has to pay the State not caring from where the money is going to come. Mr. Spitzer confiscated 1000 charts. Patients had to find another doctor. The other doctors could not diagnose them properly, they did not know what medication to give them as there were no charts.Their medications were stopped without giving them any notice. One patient killed himself because he could not bear the pain any more. Mr. Spitzer has not only ruined my husband’s life but our whole family’s life together with the one thousand patients who suffered not counting the one he has killed. You say terrorists are found outside this country. I think the Terrorists are living in this country who want to gain POWER by any means.
As they say: ‘the little wife is the last to know’. If Eliot Spitzer raided your husband’s medical office and charged him with overbilling, you should bet on Spitzer.
Medical providers who are ripping off insurers and our government are adding huge costs to the overall system. My hat is off to anyone putting these people in jail and seeking monetary restitution.
If your husband is innocent as you seem to believe, then fortunately for him we have a legal system that will allow him to have his day in court. If he turns out to be innocent, then you can throw stones at Spitzer and call him names.
If S runs for governor next year, you better close your eyes and vote Republicans. He might get the boot if they win.
Argie
Buenos Aires
Argie, you are ignorant of how politics work in the US. Spitzer must give up his office as AG in order to run for governor. Please keep your stupidity south of the border.
and you keep your manners. I am not your wife, your sister or your mother
…. May 12, 2005, 2:42 pm CDT
Posted By: JAMES P. CORCORAN…..
Mr. Corcoran is the crook that allowed the looting of MONY detailed at http://www.SpitzerAG.com and http://www.GonzalesAG.com. He was the NY Superintendent from 1983 to 1991 and MONY’s former assistant General Counsel prior to being Super…