Maybe I am just stupid, but how do you deploy 1.6m pumps in 24 hrs or less? Storms could change course at any time. Look at the one headed for Tampa, FL and ended up making a hard right turn and hit way south of Tampa. Also, once the storm passes and spreads these pumps all over the ocean, who is going to collect them? This is stupid and I hope our tax dollars DON\’T pay for it. If anyone thinks it\’s not stupid, then please, please explain this to me.
That would mean each ship would have 1.5 minutes to deploy each pump. (1000 pumps divided by 24 hours (1,440 minutes)= 1.44 minutes for each pump. That is not going to happen unless they are running full speed and just dropping them overboard. Also, again, who is going out to pick them up after they have been scattered by the storm??
Also how powerful would a pump have to be to churn water from 400 feet down? Wouldn\’t said pump cost thousands of dollars? Wouldn\’t then 1.6 million pumps cost several billion? Not to mention the vast amount of resources both human (hundreds of ships = thousands of pump operators essentially floating in the path of a severe hurricane) but also cost of ships, cost of coordination, cost of adminstration…
The article calls it a \”billion dollar Idea\”. I call it a \”$10 billion idea with tons of risks\”.
My idea is to just put a bunch of large fans along the US coastline and turn them on to blow the hurricane in a different direction. Where do I apply for a government grant for my research?
A few words about science. Just about everything we take for granted today was referred to as \”crackpot\” science by people like you at some point in the past. Airplanes, cell phones, personal computers. Whether or not the this idea is ultimately what is used to defuse hurricanes is irrelevant. It is important to fund this at the research level to see where it leads. The technology developed and lessons learned can lead to great things. Entrepreneurs will take over when the time is right.
OK – maybe in theory this is \’cool\’ but in real life – I see it now – 1.6 million pumps quickly loaded on waiting ships sailing 200 miles out in the ocean 24 hours before a major hurricane – we can\’t evacuate citizens with 2- 3 days notice! Of course this assumes pumps are ready and in working order, dock hands ready to load, ships ready to sail – full crew – yes I can see it all now.
Since when is coming up with a possible solution to save potentially millions of lives and tax dollars not worth further investigation? There are definitely pitfalls to every scientific theory, but we would still be living in the stone age if brilliant people didn\’t have the guts to stand up to ridicule like this. Perhaps you should all write a letter to the American Cancer Society and tell them we should we stop looking for a way to cure cancer because it costs too much. And let\’s be honest. We are insurance professionals – not exactly known for our scientific prowess.
Yes, I agree that we should be looking for solutions to our weather problems. I also agree that their idea is a good one, cool the water. But it\’s not their idea that is wrong, it is the way they want to do it that is wrong. It has nothing to do with science, it has to do with manpower and time. We have all seen how the government reacts to an emergency. You tell them that they have 24 hours to deploy the pumps and by the time the approval gets down to the people that are doing the deploying, the hurricane will be long gone. Personally I all for the fans.
I know, along with giant parasols off the coast to stop hurricanes, howsabout giant corks to stick in volcanoes?! And for twisters we can erect giant horizontal propellors about 1,000 feet off the ground that spin in the opposite direction of the twisters. This may not stop them, but it might confuse them.
Towing icebergs sounds like a more feasible idea. The melting icebergs would dilute the warm water at the surface probably faster than pumps could pump up cold water from further down. Less likely to stir up the creatures that live down there, too.
The real answer is for us to take better care of the world and be more environmental conscious. Global warming is causing the oceans to become a bit warmer. Dragging an iceberg into the Atlantic to cool the water only ends up contributing more to global warming. The storms will come. We need to build better and stronger homes and buildings, and take care of the environment, which may lower the water temperatures, which may make the storms less intense.
Didn\’t they try to seed hurricanes in the 1960\’s, but they stopped when they concluded they may have made one that hit worse?
Here\’s a better idea: Instead of trying to tame Mother Nature (and tempt her revenge), why not encourage people not to build homes a few feet from the ocean? Or maybe take all the money that would go to weather alteration and put it toward something truly innovative…such as effective preparedness and mitigation?
But that wouldn\’t be nearly as exciting as soaking up taxpayer dollars trying to change the weather.
By the way, one of those scientists said weather change due to global warming were \”inadvertant.\” Like heck it is. For 100 years, we\’ve run the world\’s economy by burning things and letting the smoke go into the atmosphere. Now, we\’re starting to pay the price. It\’s like smoking cigarettes for 50 years…sooner or later they\’ll kill you.
\”I don\’t think so\” hit the nail on the head. Instead of pouring everybodys tax dollars into a project that only helps coastal idiots, let those idiots who build on the beach build better houses.
That\’s a good solution. Florida is doing something like you\’re proposing in actually spending money in upgrading existing homes to be more resistent to hurricanes. What other states are?
Reversing Global Warming is a very long term strategy with no \”guarantees.\”
Not to mention Global warming is a global concern not just the US. Its difficult to A. Create a comprehensive plan to meet everyone\’s ok; and B. Enforce it.
The earth is in a warming cycle. We just came out of a cooling period. Now we are in a warming period. It was much warmer in the 1500\’s than it is now. Mankind has no effect on this cycle. Global warming a la Al Gore is bunk.
Studies by Aggies have shown that dumping ice into the Gulf of Mexico at New Orleans would be more beneficial. Artic wildlife would return to Southern Louisiana creating happier hunting for area cajuns. It would cost less to air condition areas along the Gulf of Mexico. Also it would help prevent global warming.
You got one of the largest fresh water sources in the world dumping into the Gulf right there – the MISSISSIPPI RIVER. Just run it through some kind of demudifying filter and divert it to a gigantic ice cube maker the size of Rhode Island.
How you get that much ice is up to FEMA. They may still have some unused ice they didn\’t deliver to Rita/Katrina victims. The Aggies were just trying to figure out a way to improve the Polar Bear hunting on the Gulf Coast.
All kidding aside, I think the giant ice maker would work. As soon as a hurricane enters the Gulf, crank it up and away we go. Build it like a dam. Have a section for fish and other aquatic life to go through and have the other section spit out the ice. I guess you would still have to worry about what it would do to the ecology. Don\’t mess with Mother Nature. but hey, I don\’t think it would cost as much or be harder to deploy than the pumps.
Another waste of money… isn\’t there life in the water or are we just forgetting all about that. Changing the temperature, while it may sound like nothing to us, can be a biggg thing for the life that lives below. C\’mon can we stop trying to mess with nature PLEASE?????
After a life time of study I can report that our weather patterns and global warming is definitely caused by thermonuclear radiation, from a central point aproximately 90 million miles. This is a violation of every international nuclear test ban treaty so clearly the Bush Administrations must be behind it. When will the madness end???
All this stuff aside, we all know you can\’t tame Mother Nature. All you can do is prepare and run if necessary. I really think all this money would be better spent on building homes to withstand the weather, better evacuation plans and better response when disaster hits. I don\’t care where ever you live there will always be something, fires, earthquakes, mud slides, record heat, record cold, hail, tornatos(spelled right??). Where you gonna go, where you gonna hide. I do believe that all of these people living on sand bars, once the home is destroyed they should be paid the value and told that there will be no coverage if they build in the same place. Make them move off of those sand bars. There were never meant to be built on and I for one do not want to keep subsidizing these people because they are too stupid to move. But then again, are they stupid or are we stupid to keep paying them. The nation has to wake up and start taking care of their own and stop squandering money on stupid ideas. Do what they know will work.
Well I am going to keep track of this because I want to apply for another grant to supply the power source for these pumps.
It will either be a zillion feet of extension cords, 1.6 million solar panel systems, or 1.6 million tiny little nuclear reactors. The energizer bunny sure won\’t be able to handle this kind of amperage or voltage requirements.
$1 billion my foot.
Hurricanes are the Earths way of cooling itself from global warming. Hurricanes are a very important energetic transfer. If you eliminate this natural and necessary event, the Earth will heat up from the inside, and massive volcanoes will form all over the Earth. This is a prooven FACT.
What Hal is alluding to are several fundamental questions:
why do hurricanes form?
what ingredients are there in a powerful hurricane versus a tropical depression when they first start out?
and if there is global warming either by manmade pollutions or by a natural warming trends what would be the long term consequences of supressing hurricane activity?
The first two questions probably any meterologists can provide a reasonable answer. But the third is more difficult b/c you are entering speculation. Do we really know if hurricanes serve a purpose? If so what are the consequences? I\’m not sure if there really is supporting evidence of a clear cut \”fact\”. If so, what? I would like to know and more specifically I think these scientists should be informed if they aren\’t already.
Do you people actually consider yourselves to be serious or…are you just pretending to be Rocket Scientist, because you have to much time on your hands?
\”Do you people actually consider yourselves to be serious or…are you just pretending to be Rocket Scientist, because you have to much time on your hands?\”
Of course we are all very serious, and we know where you live.
Oh yes, this is a fact. This is what happened on many of the inhospitable planets in our solar system. Its documented. The atmosphere is so week (due to natural and unrealted circumstances) that once hurricanes can no longer form in the atmosphere, this energy or heat must be disipated elsewhere.
\”…this energy or heat must be disipated elsewhere.\”
Yo – what happens to water as it heats up? It evaporates, which is an essential element in the cooling cycle. So what will happen if hurricanes do not rapidly decrease the water temp? It will decrease gradually. We haven\’t had any \’canes this year, and we haven\’t turned into Neptune yet.
And what planets were you on when they stopped having hurricanes there?!! In fact, what planet are you on now?
Slim Wrote: And what planets were you on when they stopped having hurricanes there?!! In fact, what planet are you on now?
___________________________
I cant speak for him, but Im sure you know that the \”eye\” on Jupiter is basically a hurricane, it looks different because the substances on the planet are different. Also, through science, they can hypothesize and theorize on what happened in the past. I learned that in 2nd grade, dude, so what planet for stupid people are you on?
So there\’s a hurricane on Jupiter, and we all know how habitable Jupiter is.
The point was that since there were no hurricanes on the other planets they became uninhabitable, meaning presumably that all of the little green men died.
The necessary conclusion to this argument is that we shouldn\’t try to stop hurricanes, which I am in favor of because A. it is impossible, and B. hurricanes regenerate coastal areas. It\’s like plowing fallow fields.
Is this too logical for your \”scientific\” mind to follow?
After havign read all the previous comments, I have three of my own to share:
1. Hurricanes do pump warmer air and ocean currents north from the equatorial regions to the northern hemisphere – places like the British Isles benefit. Hurricanes are an important \”part in the weather machine\” – messing with them will cause all sorts of other unforeseen & unintened problems. Besides, stronger hurricanes are not the underlying problem. We should try to focus on the underlying causes of warmer surface ocean waters. 2. Puerto Rico is hit or gets glancing blows regularly from hurricanes and they don\’t have the massive problems that people along the US coasts do because their building codes are better; their houses are stronger. 3. The person who commented that we should stop paying people to rebuild on sandbars is correct. The capital incentives are bass-ackwards.
Bttf,I hate to say it, but you get the prize for the silliest cmnmeot today.I’ll give you a heads up the Columbia Free Trade Bill does not `take any jobs away from our country’ but helps shore up an ally of ours in the region and increase exports from the US to Columbia.As for you calling Columbia ‘corrupt’ and using Hugo Chavez and Venezuela as a model…well, let’s just say your political agenda is showing and it ain’t exactly pro-US, ok?ff
A great example of \”crackpot\” science. Has anyone noticed that \”Chris\” is no longer churning!
Maybe I am just stupid, but how do you deploy 1.6m pumps in 24 hrs or less? Storms could change course at any time. Look at the one headed for Tampa, FL and ended up making a hard right turn and hit way south of Tampa. Also, once the storm passes and spreads these pumps all over the ocean, who is going to collect them? This is stupid and I hope our tax dollars DON\’T pay for it. If anyone thinks it\’s not stupid, then please, please explain this to me.
Would have to be ship-based — i.e., picture 100 ships each operating 1000 pumps.
That would mean each ship would have 1.5 minutes to deploy each pump. (1000 pumps divided by 24 hours (1,440 minutes)= 1.44 minutes for each pump. That is not going to happen unless they are running full speed and just dropping them overboard. Also, again, who is going out to pick them up after they have been scattered by the storm??
Also how powerful would a pump have to be to churn water from 400 feet down? Wouldn\’t said pump cost thousands of dollars? Wouldn\’t then 1.6 million pumps cost several billion? Not to mention the vast amount of resources both human (hundreds of ships = thousands of pump operators essentially floating in the path of a severe hurricane) but also cost of ships, cost of coordination, cost of adminstration…
The article calls it a \”billion dollar Idea\”. I call it a \”$10 billion idea with tons of risks\”.
My idea is to just put a bunch of large fans along the US coastline and turn them on to blow the hurricane in a different direction. Where do I apply for a government grant for my research?
Brewster\’s Millions
Dont let congress get involved – all that hot air would cause a Cat 3 to become a Cat 5 in no time.
What we need is 2,000 parasols the size of Tampa, on bouys off the ocast.
A few words about science. Just about everything we take for granted today was referred to as \”crackpot\” science by people like you at some point in the past. Airplanes, cell phones, personal computers. Whether or not the this idea is ultimately what is used to defuse hurricanes is irrelevant. It is important to fund this at the research level to see where it leads. The technology developed and lessons learned can lead to great things. Entrepreneurs will take over when the time is right.
Why don\’t we just get like 100 atomic bombs and set them off in the path of the storms.
Cooling pumps…this is ridiculous. Oh, and lets research this in a pool too. That is close enough gallonage as the Atlantic ocean.
Would these be PETA approved? Stirring up the ocean might increase global warming even more… better be careful with mother nature!
OK – maybe in theory this is \’cool\’ but in real life – I see it now – 1.6 million pumps quickly loaded on waiting ships sailing 200 miles out in the ocean 24 hours before a major hurricane – we can\’t evacuate citizens with 2- 3 days notice! Of course this assumes pumps are ready and in working order, dock hands ready to load, ships ready to sail – full crew – yes I can see it all now.
Since when is coming up with a possible solution to save potentially millions of lives and tax dollars not worth further investigation? There are definitely pitfalls to every scientific theory, but we would still be living in the stone age if brilliant people didn\’t have the guts to stand up to ridicule like this. Perhaps you should all write a letter to the American Cancer Society and tell them we should we stop looking for a way to cure cancer because it costs too much. And let\’s be honest. We are insurance professionals – not exactly known for our scientific prowess.
Yes, I agree that we should be looking for solutions to our weather problems. I also agree that their idea is a good one, cool the water. But it\’s not their idea that is wrong, it is the way they want to do it that is wrong. It has nothing to do with science, it has to do with manpower and time. We have all seen how the government reacts to an emergency. You tell them that they have 24 hours to deploy the pumps and by the time the approval gets down to the people that are doing the deploying, the hurricane will be long gone. Personally I all for the fans.
I know, along with giant parasols off the coast to stop hurricanes, howsabout giant corks to stick in volcanoes?! And for twisters we can erect giant horizontal propellors about 1,000 feet off the ground that spin in the opposite direction of the twisters. This may not stop them, but it might confuse them.
Towing icebergs sounds like a more feasible idea. The melting icebergs would dilute the warm water at the surface probably faster than pumps could pump up cold water from further down. Less likely to stir up the creatures that live down there, too.
Dropping ice would require an immense amount of ice. Just as the article said, people frequently underestimate the size and power of hurricanes.
Hurricanes are huge. Do you ever see those forecast pictures on the weather channel? Some hurricanes are nearly the size of Texas.
The real answer is for us to take better care of the world and be more environmental conscious. Global warming is causing the oceans to become a bit warmer. Dragging an iceberg into the Atlantic to cool the water only ends up contributing more to global warming. The storms will come. We need to build better and stronger homes and buildings, and take care of the environment, which may lower the water temperatures, which may make the storms less intense.
Didn\’t they try to seed hurricanes in the 1960\’s, but they stopped when they concluded they may have made one that hit worse?
Here\’s a better idea: Instead of trying to tame Mother Nature (and tempt her revenge), why not encourage people not to build homes a few feet from the ocean? Or maybe take all the money that would go to weather alteration and put it toward something truly innovative…such as effective preparedness and mitigation?
But that wouldn\’t be nearly as exciting as soaking up taxpayer dollars trying to change the weather.
By the way, one of those scientists said weather change due to global warming were \”inadvertant.\” Like heck it is. For 100 years, we\’ve run the world\’s economy by burning things and letting the smoke go into the atmosphere. Now, we\’re starting to pay the price. It\’s like smoking cigarettes for 50 years…sooner or later they\’ll kill you.
Amen!!
\”I don\’t think so\” hit the nail on the head. Instead of pouring everybodys tax dollars into a project that only helps coastal idiots, let those idiots who build on the beach build better houses.
That\’s a good solution. Florida is doing something like you\’re proposing in actually spending money in upgrading existing homes to be more resistent to hurricanes. What other states are?
Reversing Global Warming is a very long term strategy with no \”guarantees.\”
Not to mention Global warming is a global concern not just the US. Its difficult to A. Create a comprehensive plan to meet everyone\’s ok; and B. Enforce it.
The earth is in a warming cycle. We just came out of a cooling period. Now we are in a warming period. It was much warmer in the 1500\’s than it is now. Mankind has no effect on this cycle. Global warming a la Al Gore is bunk.
How are you gonna make the Ice?
Studies by Aggies have shown that dumping ice into the Gulf of Mexico at New Orleans would be more beneficial. Artic wildlife would return to Southern Louisiana creating happier hunting for area cajuns. It would cost less to air condition areas along the Gulf of Mexico. Also it would help prevent global warming.
\”How are you gonna make the Ice?\”
You got one of the largest fresh water sources in the world dumping into the Gulf right there – the MISSISSIPPI RIVER. Just run it through some kind of demudifying filter and divert it to a gigantic ice cube maker the size of Rhode Island.
How you get that much ice is up to FEMA. They may still have some unused ice they didn\’t deliver to Rita/Katrina victims. The Aggies were just trying to figure out a way to improve the Polar Bear hunting on the Gulf Coast.
All kidding aside, I think the giant ice maker would work. As soon as a hurricane enters the Gulf, crank it up and away we go. Build it like a dam. Have a section for fish and other aquatic life to go through and have the other section spit out the ice. I guess you would still have to worry about what it would do to the ecology. Don\’t mess with Mother Nature. but hey, I don\’t think it would cost as much or be harder to deploy than the pumps.
wouldn\’t a giant ice maker create a ton of pollution?
Another waste of money… isn\’t there life in the water or are we just forgetting all about that. Changing the temperature, while it may sound like nothing to us, can be a biggg thing for the life that lives below. C\’mon can we stop trying to mess with nature PLEASE?????
After a life time of study I can report that our weather patterns and global warming is definitely caused by thermonuclear radiation, from a central point aproximately 90 million miles. This is a violation of every international nuclear test ban treaty so clearly the Bush Administrations must be behind it. When will the madness end???
This thread is over – no one could top Little Frog\’s post!
Ribbit.
All this stuff aside, we all know you can\’t tame Mother Nature. All you can do is prepare and run if necessary. I really think all this money would be better spent on building homes to withstand the weather, better evacuation plans and better response when disaster hits. I don\’t care where ever you live there will always be something, fires, earthquakes, mud slides, record heat, record cold, hail, tornatos(spelled right??). Where you gonna go, where you gonna hide. I do believe that all of these people living on sand bars, once the home is destroyed they should be paid the value and told that there will be no coverage if they build in the same place. Make them move off of those sand bars. There were never meant to be built on and I for one do not want to keep subsidizing these people because they are too stupid to move. But then again, are they stupid or are we stupid to keep paying them. The nation has to wake up and start taking care of their own and stop squandering money on stupid ideas. Do what they know will work.
What\’s really crazy is, these losers will probably get a government grant to study and implement their ideas!
Well I am going to keep track of this because I want to apply for another grant to supply the power source for these pumps.
It will either be a zillion feet of extension cords, 1.6 million solar panel systems, or 1.6 million tiny little nuclear reactors. The energizer bunny sure won\’t be able to handle this kind of amperage or voltage requirements.
$1 billion my foot.
At least no one is advancing the \”god is punishing us\” theory.
Hurricanes are the Earths way of cooling itself from global warming. Hurricanes are a very important energetic transfer. If you eliminate this natural and necessary event, the Earth will heat up from the inside, and massive volcanoes will form all over the Earth. This is a prooven FACT.
\”This is a prooven FACT.\”
Yeah, because the last time we prevented all of the hurricanes there was a rash of volcanic eruptions. I remember that.
What Hal is alluding to are several fundamental questions:
why do hurricanes form?
what ingredients are there in a powerful hurricane versus a tropical depression when they first start out?
and if there is global warming either by manmade pollutions or by a natural warming trends what would be the long term consequences of supressing hurricane activity?
The first two questions probably any meterologists can provide a reasonable answer. But the third is more difficult b/c you are entering speculation. Do we really know if hurricanes serve a purpose? If so what are the consequences? I\’m not sure if there really is supporting evidence of a clear cut \”fact\”. If so, what? I would like to know and more specifically I think these scientists should be informed if they aren\’t already.
Do you people actually consider yourselves to be serious or…are you just pretending to be Rocket Scientist, because you have to much time on your hands?
\”Do you people actually consider yourselves to be serious or…are you just pretending to be Rocket Scientist, because you have to much time on your hands?\”
Of course we are all very serious, and we know where you live.
Oh yes, this is a fact. This is what happened on many of the inhospitable planets in our solar system. Its documented. The atmosphere is so week (due to natural and unrealted circumstances) that once hurricanes can no longer form in the atmosphere, this energy or heat must be disipated elsewhere.
\”…this energy or heat must be disipated elsewhere.\”
Yo – what happens to water as it heats up? It evaporates, which is an essential element in the cooling cycle. So what will happen if hurricanes do not rapidly decrease the water temp? It will decrease gradually. We haven\’t had any \’canes this year, and we haven\’t turned into Neptune yet.
And what planets were you on when they stopped having hurricanes there?!! In fact, what planet are you on now?
Slim Wrote: And what planets were you on when they stopped having hurricanes there?!! In fact, what planet are you on now?
___________________________
I cant speak for him, but Im sure you know that the \”eye\” on Jupiter is basically a hurricane, it looks different because the substances on the planet are different. Also, through science, they can hypothesize and theorize on what happened in the past. I learned that in 2nd grade, dude, so what planet for stupid people are you on?
So there\’s a hurricane on Jupiter, and we all know how habitable Jupiter is.
The point was that since there were no hurricanes on the other planets they became uninhabitable, meaning presumably that all of the little green men died.
The necessary conclusion to this argument is that we shouldn\’t try to stop hurricanes, which I am in favor of because A. it is impossible, and B. hurricanes regenerate coastal areas. It\’s like plowing fallow fields.
Is this too logical for your \”scientific\” mind to follow?
Prooven? Morons – it\’s proven.
Learn to spell.
After havign read all the previous comments, I have three of my own to share:
1. Hurricanes do pump warmer air and ocean currents north from the equatorial regions to the northern hemisphere – places like the British Isles benefit. Hurricanes are an important \”part in the weather machine\” – messing with them will cause all sorts of other unforeseen & unintened problems. Besides, stronger hurricanes are not the underlying problem. We should try to focus on the underlying causes of warmer surface ocean waters. 2. Puerto Rico is hit or gets glancing blows regularly from hurricanes and they don\’t have the massive problems that people along the US coasts do because their building codes are better; their houses are stronger. 3. The person who commented that we should stop paying people to rebuild on sandbars is correct. The capital incentives are bass-ackwards.
Bttf,I hate to say it, but you get the prize for the silliest cmnmeot today.I’ll give you a heads up the Columbia Free Trade Bill does not `take any jobs away from our country’ but helps shore up an ally of ours in the region and increase exports from the US to Columbia.As for you calling Columbia ‘corrupt’ and using Hugo Chavez and Venezuela as a model…well, let’s just say your political agenda is showing and it ain’t exactly pro-US, ok?ff