A bill that should not have passed in the senate the way it did. I almost want to move to Nebraska. Although VT. and Ma.is closer. It’s just one more stinkfest out of Washington.
If you want cleaner air join the SIP(send incumbents packing) movement next time you vote!!
The other 50% are confused to the point of wanting to take no action. So how do you figure all of the people are against this? Show me the math.
Also, Health care reform will help put a huge curve in age and health discrimination in the work place. Companies might actually start hiring based on skill rather then health. No more will they have to hire based on how much they think this person will cause the rates to go up.
I believe that 100% would be against this bill if everyone knew just what was in it and how much it is going to cost us in the long run. Why is it so important to push this bill through so fast? I have always been taught that if it has to be a quick decission there are facts that you do not know. This is the first step to a socialized government and I can not support it at all. Even the analysts say that is will cost us less to do nothing and that there is a better way to accomplish the goal. Do not be mislead by the democratic solidatity it is just their way to force socialism down out throats. All Americans need to tell the democratic idiots to just stop and go home for Christmas and really work out a plan that helps after the first of the year. Obama has not done anything that he promised yet and why do we want to force us to pay forever for this mistake now.
Dont think this will help any worker old or young! It will make employers think, How can we reduce our healthcare costs. Right now under a group plan the cost is per employee and the whole group is rated based on the average age of the group. In the future it will be per employee. I would hire the young person first the way the current law reads. But then if you make the cost mandatory on employers it will cause tremendous layoffs and unemployment will skyrocket. Obama and Congress is on a collission course with an economic depression in both spending and taxes. It is their plan.
Funny how the Tea party movement has the most favorability rating of any party, but yet it is not even a political party.
People are mad as hell about this legislation our president and congress is spending our money like drunken sailors. I can not believe that some idiots are even in favor of this. Can they not figure our that the tax bill is coming in the mail for all of Obamas Utiopia, our grandkids will not even be able to pay this off.
“All Americans need to tell the democratic idiots to just stop and go home for Christmas and really work out a plan that helps after the first of the year.”
We’ve been telling them and telling them – through tea parties, town halls, phone calls, letters, emails, the march on Washington on Sept. 12, the rally at the Capitol a few weeks ago, every poll in existence from CNN to Rasmussen to you name it – and they are not listening to us. They are giving the American people the one-finger salute and paying no attention to us whatsoever.
I thought it was interesting that taxpayer money was doled out to convince any dems on the fence about reform to vote in favor of this heap of crap. Nelson essentially sold his vote and Lieberman was also quick to pull a 180. Funny how closed door meetings can change a senators mind so quickly when he/she or their respective state stands to benefit.
This 2000+ piece of crap does nothing to address the real problems with the healthcare system and would serve Americans best if used as fireplace kindling.
Funny how passage of this monstrosity will result in immediate tax increases to start paying for it, despite the fact that it doesn’t actually get implemented for years. (after the presidential election of course)
I for one cannot wait until 2010 elections to get these morons out of office.
You must not be very old. The US citizens of this country have been trying to get health care reform for the past 20 years. Where have you been? This is not something that was put together over night.
I don’t get the impression that you’ve read the bill. This bill is the least of your worries.
At this point whatever happens to health care is a little to late. We are entering the second phase before WWIII officially gets under way.
Obama said this “it will get worse before it gets better”. Oh yes, and he is right.
You know as well as anyone that Presidents can only sign bills. They don’t make it happen. Our corrupt and confused politicians have run this country a muck.
It’s too late. And has been since the Louisiana Purchase. We have never been free. The power simply changed hands.
Put some meat on your bones, because you will be without food for days on end.
Learn how to hunt, fish and camp. Don’t try to hang on to the material things that you have now, it will only cause your demise.
But most of all learn how to love all, including your enemies. When you learn to love without prejudice, then you also will know how to forgive. If you don’t do these things in this life ,then your lesson will become much harder in the next life. You will be humbled and there is no escape.
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wish.
To My Republican Friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ 2010.
Well one thing that was lost early on was whether or not this would allow for ILLEGAL Immigrants to get health care. Everyone has focused on Abortion, A Public Option, etc.. What about Illegal Immigrants? Don’t forget the Illegal’s suck up hundreds of millions of our US Tax dollars so this bill, when finalized & passed (unfortunately, its inevitable I think), it better NOT have ANY funding for Abortion and BETTER NOT allow for Illegal Immigrants to receive benefits.
Great point Mark, Remember when he republican congressman yelled out “you lie” when Obama gave his speach. Well he was wrong and right at the same time.
They will not allow illeagals to get health care covered by their massive program. The problem is Congress and our wonderful president will make them all legal! They want their vote!
Since you have obviously had your head in the clouds, today’s most recent liberal CNN poll shows that 58% are OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. Only 42% support it! Of course CNN spun it saying “support rising for healthcare”…when after a close reading, it’s revealed that as of December 2, only 36% supported the legislation. 56% were opposed. The article does accurately conclude that “the majority of Americans are against it”.
So, to all of you “supporters”, you are in the minority. And you have gotten temporarily quite lucky to find a congress successfully bribed by their leader. That’s one to be proud of.
Of course democrats want illegals made legal…they DO want their vote. In fact, they’ll NEED their vote. It’s how Obama got elected after all….promising freebies for all….they came out in droves…..and he’s giving out lots of those freebies via his policies, he’s just not giving them to the people who earn money. The Democrats platform has always been that the goverment will provide…what better group to plead their case??? Those that climb the fence wanting maternity benefits, a drivers license, and tax free income…..
The great thing is that there actually is HOPE! Because his agenda is becoming glaringly clear to many people, and it simply isn’t sustainable, as he would take our country down, to be King of the World. Not so fast buddy.
Why does everyone who’s enrolled in Medicare love it? Because they are the beneficiaries of a government transfer payment!
The Medicare program has contributed substantially to the rise in the level of health insurance premiums. Using Medicare to support a competitive government insurance plan is a false analogy. Medicare beats out private insurers in the senior market because it cheats.
Medicare cheats by setting its fee schedule, by government fiat, to health care providers below the cost of providing that service. A hospital would go belly-up if it only had Medicare patients. It must make up that revenue somewhere (even if the hospital is a non-profit!). It can only do so by shifting its costs onto privately-insured or self-insured patients. This drives up the private insurers’ loss costs, and consequently their premiums (even the non-profit health insurers that exist in all fifty states, dominating the market in some of them!)
Medicare then further cheats by charging a premium inadequate even for these reduced loss costs. How do I know it’s inadequate? Because the program must collect a payroll tax to function, and it STILL runs a deficit.
Everyone who is in Medicare may love it, but it’s bad for the country as a whole.
I just can not wait to see all of the liberals on this blog scream when they get their income tax bill in april 2011. Lets see how they feel about things then. Obamacare does not go into effect until 2014 but we are paying for it this coming year. All liberals think someone else paying for something is great until they have to pay. I guess thats why they give almost half of what conservatives give to charity. That is a fact, Many studies have been performed to track the political affiliations of those that donate to charities. Lets see how they feel when Obamacare cost them a huge tax increase. I cant wait.
The people that pay for it dont’ love it. The doctors and other medical care providers that are shorted in their payments don’t love it. The program has billions in unfunded liabilities, so who loves it? Liberals such as yourself apparently. Do I want to do away with it, not really, but I would like to see it fixed with realistic funding and payment schedules. This is a bit much to ask however, since the goal of this adminstration and congress is not fixing anything. Just taking over everything. We all need help occasionally, but I had a mother, I don’t need the government to be a second mother.
It is going to be difficult to hire on skill in this country. In case you haven’t noticed for the past 20 years the education merits of this country have gone down the toilet due to excess spending on government wars and endless supplies of foreign aid (err…donations cause it’s never paid back, just take a loke at the $100B guaranteed a year to developing countries because the US has wronged them so). The implementation of health care reform hasn’t done anything to reform the true cost of health care, therefore premiums will continue to go up and the government will now just have their hand in it.
This is health insurance reform and it will cost us in other areas of this country. Next item on the list to slash is education.
If GREs (gov’t run enterprises) are so good, how come the USPS, Amtrak, Fannie and Freddie, can’t make a profit, medicare and SS are going bankrupt, and how come we are one of the worst countries in the world with respects to education.
You can’t put it in a box on a shelf. The law of supply and demand for insurnace does not work.
THe supply(insurance premiums)are limited and no one insurer as enough of it to pay claims and be profitable. There aren’t enough rich people paying premiums to keep them going and when they loose the middle class, which is what is happening, they are bankrupt.
So if you really want the truth. All insurance (with perhaps the exception of life and accident insurance)should be sold only by a few non profit companies with strict federal oversight.
This is common sense and this is the only thing that will work in the long run.
You and everyone else need to change your perspective.
Just because it will put people out of work in this industry doesn’t mean it should continue on it’s path to self destruction.
You know, like the auto industry. Accept atleast this industry was a perfect example of how the law of supply and demand works.
I took Bible study class 25 or so years ago and I remember the minister saying that the collapse of the insurance industry is the beginning of the end. I also remember it being told that strange things will begin to happen, like a person’s perception becomes more alert (ESP).
A few months ago in the AM I was flipping fast forward on my DVR to one of my recorded news programs and in an instant (probably a few seconds) this image appeared. The best way I can describe it is that it was bright red (looked burnt), a man’s profile somewhat, bald (no hair) and very black eyes(no whites). And he or she was smiling just slightly as if it knew I was looking. The background I remember was an office setting, very odd.
My first thought that this was an ad for a new horror flick. However, I had no trace of it afterwards and haven’t seen it again.
We’ve all had the experience of thinking of someone and then they call or thinking of a song and turning on the radio and it’s playing.
Well I’ve been doing this about everday now for the past year.
Is this happening to anyone else? ANd has anyone else seen what I’m describing?
Medicare is ENTIRELY irrelevant to the discussion of the disaster that the democrats have proposed. It might not be for long though, when the “reform” steals money from Medicare as they plan….by reducing payments to doctors and hospitals. Those providers are getting screwed as it is, and they’ll simply pull out and take higher paying patients. That leaves the elderly patient in the lurch, and Allen, I dare say, as the elderly have been screaming for months, they aren’t going to like Medicare so much anymore. If I were elderly, and had a choice financially, that sure isn’t the entity I would choose to be insured by. Let’s don’t forget……everyone agrees…THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE AGAINST THIS LEGISLATION AND THE DEMOCRATS THINK THEY KNOW BETTER THAN THE MAJORITY OF US. That’s called losing touch with your constituents and simply running with your own personal agenda.
There ya go. You said it yourselves. Medicare works. It maybe in the red, but the single payer system in place works.
Is everyone happy that we as a nation spend twice as much as other leading, rich, free, industrialized countries and get less? We’re a laughing stock right now and it’s because of all the fear mongering going on that your hear in the media from the right. They want to get paid. Don’t you see it?
You want to tell me that predjudice against pre-existing conditions, policy recisions and high costs are just fine for this country?
You want to tell me that when your insurance policy fails to cover an ailment for yourself or loved one it’s ok to get a divorce so your ex-spouse can go on Medicaid to recieve care? This is what makes our country great?
I’m sorry. But if your in favor of what we have now and do not like reform, you are just plain stupid.
Obama has studied this strategy for years and was obsessed with it in college from what some have said. The strategy is to overwelm the country with wellfare and social programs to the point that it falls into a socialist system by a majority demand of the population. In order to do this you need the establishment of major social programs that overwelm the financial systems and our tax structure as well as subvert the US constitution which calls for a small central government and states rights. Google it to find out more.
Cloward and Piven Strategy – Obama studied and has called it a great example of how we can establish “social economic justice”.
Allan, if Medicare is broke, it doesn’t work. They already give low reimbursements. In what way does it work if us poor taxpayer/owners have to keep shoveling the money into this rathole? The government can keep shoveling money into all the various rat holes because us barely a majority of citizens pay taxes and the we keep borrowing. This has to stop.
Well Guess what? Had the Republicans not been so inept and corrupt regarding the financial and insurance industry we wouldn’t be having this debate now. And we could have had a much better plan. Basically, the politicians that are wining now are the ones who turned a blind eye. They are to blame for all of this, because in fact health care has been an issue since before Jimmy Carter.
I am sick of the right wing media tyring to confuse people with their misleading information. “middle class tax hikes”. they must be refering to the upper middle class making over $250K. Small business will survive this you ding dongs. They’ll benefit by not having to worry about health insurance cost. They will always find a new deduction.
To tell you the truth I don’t feel very free with my current group health plan. It tells me when I can get treatment, it tells me what doctor to use and it tells me what medications I can and can’t take (by means of coverage). so what’s the big difference?
Small business will survive because they don’t have to worry about health costs?????????
And….the reason they won’t have to worry??? Because, per the legislation, they will receive “tax credits” ie federal government money, to offset the expense. Simply put, that means the Federal Government will now piggy back and carry the expense of small businesses employees health insurance. And, why?????
If the legislation is going to reduce costs, then why is the government offering to subsidize it for them???????? Because the government hasn’t solved the problem with their legislation!!!!!!!!!!
BY THE WAY I AM A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, UNDER 250k. The only thing I’m confused about is people like yourself that continue to say that just because Obama wants to regulate the insurance industry (the only federal unregulated industry an the wealthiest industry in the world).
Again had we done this 40 years ago we all would be financially, and morally better off.
Why are you so against a good thing? What is it really going to cost you? Can you put a number to that?
Wake up. Group Health is primarily rated on the healthiness of the whole group. Right now you have people being discriminated against and losing their jobs because the employer and other employees don’t want you around to mess up their rates. How would you feel if you suddenly was diagnosed with cancer and then suddenly co workers don’t like you anymore and you get fired for some lame reason? This has happened and it will continue to get worse if this bill doesn’t pass.
If you are a small business “under 250K” I assume you are basically self employed, and desire the government to pay your health insurance???? I definitely don’t see you as a company of any size employing personnel, and hoping that you can purchase the best possible coverage for your employees at an affordable cost. You appear to be salivating at the idea that the federal government can now pay this bill, which private industry, was being challenged by.
The insurance industry “unregulated”. Really??? Do you really think they are? You sound like an outsider to me.
As far as what this health legislation is going to cost me, BESIDES YOUR HEALTH PREMIUMS, is the increase in my own premiums when insurers are required to provide additional loss payments (due to unlimited lifetime max requirements, no preexisting conditions exclusion, no underwriting for age and sex, etc.). It’s also going to cost me federal tax dollars when Obama gives away federal tax revenues in the form of credits to everyone…small business, families of four earning under 88k, free coverage for the indigent/poor, etc. etc. I will NOT be a beneficary of this bill, nor will the majority of Americans, which they understand and is why they oppose it.
So, the Democrats health plan, surprise surprise, is yet another Obama redistribution of wealth. He campaigned on it, and here it is.
That’s not what this person was saying at all. He’s saying that through his current healt plan, he has restrictions that dictates what treatments are aloud under his particular plan. Sure, he can upgrade. But at what costs?
Why do people like you never listen? Why do you only care about yourselves? You act as if you’ll never use the medical services provided to you that the current legislation is trying to change.
Oh, wait a minute. Remember the Public Option is no longer on the table. So, sorry, there will be no government run health care in place and we will use our own money to pay for our own private or group plan.
What does that have to do with the fact that Medicare is a failed and bankrupt program Allan? Just like a liberal, if it doesn’t work, it would if we would just do it more. The very definition of insanity. Your opinions are interesting Allan. Sometimes they almost make sense, but not on this monstrosity.
Then do it then. Tell your grandparents or your own parents, if they are over age 65, that you want Medicare stripped from the pages of government and see the reaction you’ll get.
IF the spread was larger, even with auto insurance the rates should be low.
The insurance companies know this but can’t do this, so they minimize their risk, creating smaller pools and charging more premiums.
So how do we get a larger spread for insuranc companies? With fewer insurance companies.
It’s that simple.
How do we get fewer insurance companies?
With regulation to set the bar for them, requiring them to be of a certain size, and according to their actuarial capacity.
This is why they want it to be the law to carry health insurance. Just like it is the law to carry auto insurance.
So you either want it to work or you don’t.
Mr Taxman with all do respect I don’t believe your plan will not work because your companies will run out of spread with either the rates continuing to rise, causing more and more people to drop out or more insurers entering the market, creating another spread by taking away from the other existing spreads. God forbid if both are happening at the same time.
This is your basic economics my friend. What you propose is hypothesis.
And to make general statements, sterotyping all people and laying blame to a certain behaivor is not practical and bad economics.
Fair competition is good for the consumer. Letting insurance companies to compete across State Lines won’t do didlely squat in regard to lower rates.
You know we don’t even have regulation and rates have been going up on average about 20% each year and coverage dropping approximtely 50%.
So what’s causing this my fiend? This to your surpise no doubt happening in States were there is no limit to the number insurance companies allowed to do business. They simply apply for a charter. And many of the companies are coming across State lines to compete.
Why isn’t econ 101 working? It’s had a 20 year pilot test in Missouri. I guess we’re all just a bunch of sue happy nimcompoops.
I believe this is the biggest fraud of the medical field.
There is an attention deficit disorder alright. It’s called boredom, stress, distraction and just plain normal behavior.
Teachers think because kids don’t pay attention in school they say they’re ADD and the Doctor promptly perscribes seriously addictive, expensive and harmful medication, which will be a monkey on their back for life.
I say these kids are simply hands on learners and just want to work with their hands, or they want to go out and play or they have distractions and can’t focus (like problems at home or being picked on). There are all kind of reasons.
But I say most Doctors are in it for the big bucks. They are quacks that have convinced themselves that because they can do it, it is right.
We aren’t sue happy. WE’re over medicated.
THey even get schools to recruit more patients by presuring the parents to seek medical help, because their kid is acting like he’s ADD. \
The grade school in my town had a poster that said Abraham Lincoln was ADD.
WELL I’ll be a donkey’s ***. But how did they do that. They hadn’t even invented it yet and even if it were true. He’s living proof you don’t need a label and ya don’t need Retlin or what ever they give kids now (cocaine patch no doubt).
I agree with you on ADD. It’s as much a scam as this supposed health cost control bill. This is one reason the costs of medical care have driven up insurance costs. Despite the opinions of the lunatics that seem to have taken over this site, insurance reflects costs. Insurance companies do not make huge profits. The profit percentage is whaaaay down the list. Look at controlling costs folks. Nothing in this bill does that. One commentor brought up new taxes. There are at least a dozen new taxes in these bills. Our pockets are no longer that deep. Nobody wants to loan us any more. STOP THE SPENDING!
I am pleased that you are concerned about how I feel and your exclamation points indicate that you are very excited. I hope you’re not having an emotional outburst.
You suffer from the very thing that the insurance industry markets “FEAR”. and combined with distrust creates confusion.
What will I do? Hunt, Fish, gather food make fire and build shelter.
I fear for the people who live in the East. Resources will be very scarce. This is where most of the devastation and destruction occurs.
Isreal needs to start evacuating their country.
Iran suffers from pride and impatience. They are getting ready to follow through with their plans. They are just a few dollars short.
When the coup detat in Iran occurs this is when it all begins.
Whether this Health bill passes or not it really doesn’t matter. Our Gov’t waited way too long and nothing will stop what is about to occur.
This bill only determines how strong we will be at the time it occurs.
I’m saying that the bill needs to pass so that we can have a burst in our economy in order to prepare for the War a head.
THe day is coming when you dial 911 and no one will come to stop the home envasion or the murder across the street. People will turn on each other.
There isn’t a whole lot of preparation a person can do. Accept not to panick and focus on survival.
Turtle, your statement is a rant and excuses for our position we will be in after all of this irresponsible spending.
Again, let me ask it another way,
What would you do if you were in a position of power to do something. Would you vote for this bill, knowing we are going broke and the programs you are establishing will ruin our financial ability to survive.
Well thats exactly what we are doing if this bill passes.
Again, facts please no emotional statements of feeling for the poor or have a heart statements. Adults know that the financial system is not about feelings its about monetary policy.
I am looking for your financial plan for our Country. Those on the Left need to figure something out. They are in power now and not conservatives, who didnt do a good job when they were in power. But hey thats in the past. What is the Financial plan to get Medicare, Social Security, and all of the other new bankrupt or going bankrupt soon plans. Bush at least tried to get Social Security in better footing but was rebuked by the Left in his state of the union speach in 2006. Again thats the past. Lets look forward,
WHAT IS YOUR FINANCIAL PLAN TO GET US OUT OF THIS MESS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? WOULD YOU CREATE A 1.8 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE NOW. WOULD YOU START A WHOLE NEW ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM LIKE NATIONAL HEALTHCARE WITH NO SAVINGS TO THE CONSUMER LIKE THE CURRENT HOUSE BILL?
Sarah, It is obvious that you don’t want to answer Big Turtle’s questions and I think your question was answered in the last response to you. Read it again.
Although I would like more detail about what programs and why they are going to ruin our financial stability.
Funny I thought our financial stability was already ruined.
I didn’t detect any emotion from Big Turtle and I didn’t read any references to the poor. Only to people in general. Maybe most people to you are poor.
Do you have something against poor people? Or is it the middle class? Or do you group them together? Or do you put the middle class above 250K per year?
I think Big Turtle said that it didn’t really matter if this bill passed or not.
Again, a rant of emotion and feelings. Money has no feelings and my original question is about monetary policy. My feelings about the poor is irrelevent as is yours.
What are we going to do when our Country is completely insolvent due to these enormous financial programs that the left is so in love with.
These are facts,
Social Security will be completely insolvent in 2023. CBO report.
Medicare, Actually is using IOU’s right now.
1.8 Trillion dollar deficit 2009.
What is your financial plan to get us out of this mess, since the left has got us into it and continues to push us that way, what is your plan.
I sometimes feel like I am talking to my teenager in College.
second leg – make it illegal to deny coverage to any citizen or rate based on health, age, gender or territory.
third leg – Require and enforce that every insurer be of a certain size in financial strength and liquid assests. $50 billion is a good number. Insurance companies must only be non for profit. It worked much better for Blue Cross and Blue Shield when this was the case but because of other rinky dink companies were pressured into changing. This is when health insurance was affordable and insurance companies could actually afford preventive care for their members.
This way is less expensive and would solve the problem of our insurance woes.
I wonder sometimes who the majority of the shareholders are for the insurance companies we seemed to equate as good ole boys from the US. I wonder if a lot of them are living in China and Saudi Arabia?
Now, at least you are using numbers and logic without emotion!
Thats sounds interesting, but what about creating a new entitlement program that will cost us trillions. You see the current healthcare reform was looked at by CBO as deficit neutral for 10 years thats because is assumes liberals will cut medicare by 500 billion and it also uses a 10 year period being paid for starting next year with our taxes and only goes into effect in 2014 which means we are paying for something for 10 years but getting only 6 years of healthcare.
So if you figure it out for the next 10 years starting in 2010 through 2020 it is going to create a deficit of over 2 or 3 trillion dollar deficit added to the already enormous deficits we are facing with Social Security and Medicare not to mention any additional spending on cliamate change which we just agreed to pay 100 billion over the next 10 years.
HMMMMM… sounds like we dont really have a plan and this bill should not pass and maybe we should reduce some of our spending so our children and grandchildren are not indebted to China.
I do agree that we can and should reform the “COST” of healthcare. here are some of my plans. But not involve the Government into any spending what so ever!! WE ARE BROKE!
The only way we will benefit from Healthcare Reform is if we have no sacred cows.
1. Doctors can not make a million dollars a year, Lets subsidize their education rather than their salary. They need fee schedules. They should not be able to own rehab and testing labs where they send us for test to prove something they already know. Why do we have to pay one doctor to get a referral to another doctor? That’s crazy. Give us a prescription that lasts for our life if we have a disease that requires we take medicine for life.
2. Insurance companies need standard policy forms like we have in personal auto and Homeowners policy. HO3 H05 HO8. etc. They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money. Establishing affordable premiums should be easy to develop, due to the law of large numbers and mortality tables and an extraordinary amount of statistical data available to actuaries. Carriers are entitled to a fair profit, key word fair when it comes to health insurance. I don’t care if the make a fortune on my car insurance I can always find someone to insure my car.
3. Pharmaceutical companies need to sell us their medicine for the same amount they sell to Canada and only make a certain profit margin after R & D.
4. Lawyers- We need to get them out of the business of sucking on society. We need National mandatory Tort reform for those blood sucking leaches.
5. Congressmen are not allowed to take any political contributions from any entity which is involved in heathcare. Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Doctors. Etc. You see what happened when Dodd and Frank got sweetheart deals from Countrywide and expounded how Freddie and Fannie were in great financial shape as federal regulaters were warning them about collapse . We all almost went broke. Oh by the way all congressmen and senators will be required to take whatever plan they establish for us and pay half the premium. While we are at it they have to forgo their current retirement plan of %100 percent of their annual salary and replace it with Social Security. But they shouldn’t worry; we as their employer will pay half of this benefit like our employers do for us. Welcome to being and American citizen.
6. Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..
7. Hospitals can’t charge $3000 for an emergency room visit. They should be paid by the hour
I do agree that we can and should reform the “COST” of healthcare. here are some of my plans. But not involve the Government into any spending what so ever!! WE ARE BROKE!
The only way we will benefit from Healthcare Reform is if we have no sacred cows.
1. Doctors can not make a million dollars a year, Lets subsidize their education rather than their salary. They need fee schedules. They should not be able to own rehab and testing labs where they send us for test to prove something they already know. Why do we have to pay one doctor to get a referral to another doctor? That’s crazy. Give us a prescription that lasts for our life if we have a disease that requires we take medicine for life.
2. Insurance companies need standard policy forms like we have in personal auto and Homeowners policy. HO3 H05 HO8. etc. They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money. Establishing affordable premiums should be easy to develop, due to the law of large numbers and mortality tables and an extraordinary amount of statistical data available to actuaries. Carriers are entitled to a fair profit, key word fair when it comes to health insurance. I don’t care if the make a fortune on my car insurance I can always find someone to insure my car.
3. Pharmaceutical companies need to sell us their medicine for the same amount they sell to Canada and only make a certain profit margin after R & D.
4. Lawyers- We need to get them out of the business of sucking on society. We need National mandatory Tort reform for those blood sucking leaches.
5. Congressmen are not allowed to take any political contributions from any entity which is involved in heathcare. Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Doctors. Etc. You see what happened when Dodd and Frank got sweetheart deals from Countrywide and expounded how Freddie and Fannie were in great financial shape as federal regulaters were warning them about collapse . We all almost went broke. Oh by the way all congressmen and senators will be required to take whatever plan they establish for us and pay half the premium. While we are at it they have to forgo their current retirement plan of %100 percent of their annual salary and replace it with Social Security. But they shouldn’t worry; we as their employer will pay half of this benefit like our employers do for us. Welcome to being and American citizen.
6. Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..
7. Hospitals can’t charge $3000 for an emergency room visit. They should be paid by the hour
You’re putting to much confidence with reports and your actuarial predictions.
Take a deep breath and don’t worry about this bill passing, because it will.
But you’re right it probably won’t work. But it’s not going to work if it dosen’t pass either, so what’s the difference?
Taxes and the cost of everything are going to go up regardless.
I think you should be more concerned about the cap and trade. This is a no brainer. It shouldn’t pass. And it won’t if this bill passes.
Don’t you see that our politicians are confused, corrupt and blinded by lobby money? They think the lobbyiest handing them a check are all knowing. So what are we going to do about it? Make Lobby money illegal like Newt said?
You see if you are not willing to address the remedial simple problems then you will not receive the results you are wanting.
Unfortunately, it will have to get worse before it gets better.
Only when people are completely out of income and resources will they mass by the thousands and show up at the white house. But to do what? Enter into an empty building?
This is beyond anyone’s control at this point. What should have been done decades ago wasn’t done. IT’S TOO LATE.
UNLESS WE CAN MASS BY THE THOUSANDS AND SHOW UP AT THE SENATE AND HOUSE AND REMOVE OUR POLITICIANS AND PUT IN PLACE A PUBLIC VOTE ON THE THINGS WE KNOW WILL WORK.
People are too isolated from each other. Just like the Indian tribes that fought against each other long before the spanish reached the Americas.
The white man didn’t change the way of life for the Indians. They did. Because they couldn’t get along with each other. This was dark and bloody ground and will remain so. What were they fighting about? Hunting ground and pride.
Nothing’s changed since man rose up from the earth.
I find several problems with your ideas. Lets start with the rate caps and forcing companies to cover EVERYONE. Acualrily, it can not work. Think of it as auto insurance. Should a person with an excellent driving record be charged the same as someone that has a horrible one? If you set it too low, over time the company will go broke, set it to high, and you get a lot of people paying more then they have too (hence why a lot of conservitives are pissed off at this bill). Lets say you are a good driver, and right now you are paying $50 a month for your insurance. Now a law passes and your company has to charge a flat rate to everyone. Well, they have some high risk drivers as well, so in order to stay solovent, they have to jack up the rates on the lower premium policies, namely yours, to twice of what you are paying. You should only be paying $50, but you are now paying $100. You would be pissed too.
Just think of it in terms of bad drivers=bad health, good drivers=good health.
And before you say “There should be a cap on how much profit an insurane company makes” That is not acuarily sound either because they might have 3 years with a low amount of claims, but then the next year they could have a year of claims that eats thru all that profit and then some.
Here is your statement of your view of the solutions needed to reduce costs. The problem with your solutions is that health insurance is not in a vaccum its cost is based on the cost of what it covers. Basic tenate of insurance.
A stool with three legs.
first leg – madatory rate caps.
THIS CANNOT BE DONE AS IT IS ACTUARIALY IMPOSIBLE TO KEEP RATES LOW AND DO NOTHING TO REDUCE THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.
second leg – make it illegal to deny coverage to any citizen or rate based on health, age, gender or territory. THIS IS WHERE YOUR COST OF CARE WOULD GO UP! INCREASE COST AND YOU WILL INCREASE THE COST OF INSURANCE.
third leg – Require and enforce that every insurer be of a certain size in financial strength and liquid assests. $50 billion is a good number. Insurance companies must only be non for profit. It worked much better for Blue Cross and Blue Shield when this was the case but because of other rinky dink companies were pressured into changing. This is when health insurance was affordable and insurance companies could actually afford preventive care for their members.
WELL FINE IF YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, ACTUALLY HEALTH INSURERS AVERAGE PROFIT TODAY IS 2%. THAT IS A FACT. IF IT WERE SO PROFITABLE WHY ARE THERE NOT MORE CARRIERS WRITING THIS LINE OF BUSINESS. THIS IS THE INSURANCE JOURNAL ISNT IT?
Bill, I could not agree more with you! This is Obama’s plan and that of the far left progressive movement.
Democrats are not bad people. I dont think that the majority of them understand what Cloward and Piven is and the dangers that this fringe element of the left wing of the Democratic party is planing for them. At least on congressman does. The Alabama democratic congressman yesterday stated it so correctly yesterday when he joined the GOP.
I understand Big Turtle perfectly. I’m confused as to why you do not. And you are not answering his questions.
Big Turtle’s idea is to reduce the number of insurance companies and increase the spread for the ones remaining. And yes they will have plenty of money to do this.
Do you know what happened in California when they tried to deregulate the electric companies? Bringing in more competition? People went without electricity, not because they weren’t paying there bills but because there were too many electric companies and each one couldn’t establish enough customer base to keep the electricity going (you only have so many consumers). It actually drove up the cost and limited the supply.
Don’t you see that insurance companies can’t compete fairly? The more insurance companies, the higher the rates. And evetually people will not have the money to pay their premiums. Companies will fold. You’ve got to have the supply and I’m afraid there aren’t enough rich people to keep them going.
Isn’t the United States Postal service privately owned? What do you think would happen if we started opening other privately owned post offices? I’m not talking about FED EX or UPS or companies like them. I’m talking about companies that provide the local and rural mail carriers.
Insurance is not a tangible product. It is a concept, an idea based on fear.
I’m really beginning to believe that you are living in denial based on fear of what could happen but won’t.
The republican senators and congressman are bought and sold. They are being paid to oppose this bill and they have no foresight as to the reality of what the results of this bill would do. If they did we wouldn’t be in this mess now.
They could have been more tenacious in regards to the AIG bail out or the Wall Street bail out. They should actually support this bill. It will give them something to blame when our taxes go up anyway.
What really gets me is that they screwed around during Bush’s two terms with the war in Iraq, costing many lives and much money for a job poorly done. I don’t blame Bush. I voted for him, unfortuantely Dick Cheney ended up running the war. Curious, the longer the war went on the more money his “charity” made and his friends with what was it “Hal something”.
I’m sure it was just an unfortunate coinkidink. I wonder how his hunting partner is doing?
I think this response was meant for me. Your objections to the stool with three legs lack substance.
If you want to sway my opinion then be more specific to exactly how it wouldn’t work. and offer something that does other than let the insurance companies hash it out.
You basically take the posistion that nothing will work accept to leave things as is. And in case you haven’t noticed. It’s not working.
There is nothing communist about this. Is the US postal service communism?
You can’t simply call insurance regulation communism.
Obama doesn’t want gov’t run health care. He want’s to regulate the insurance industry, because the insurance companies are unable to provide coverage to about half of our citizens.
You say if the insurance companies don’t want to insure them then nobody should. This sounds more like communism to me.
With this attitude what are we doing wasting our time with our gov’t anyway. Let’s just turn everything over to the insurance companies. Only people with insurance are allowed to vote.
Let’s get rid of all of the regulatory agencies and have a free for all.
Let’s abolish all laws and everyone is on their own.
Basically regulating the insurance industry makes us communist.
Think about it. Using just a little common sense helps you figure out that a set rate is not benificial. I even gave you an example with auto insurance. If you set the rate too low, you can not afford to pay all the claims that arise. If you take in $150k, but your total expenditures (including paying claims) equals $200k, you can not stay in business. Thats econ 101. If you set the price too high, you get a lot of pissed off people that are paying more then they should (hence the reason why conservitives are against this bill). If the government takes over healthcare, it will either set the bar too low and the country goes bankrupt, or it sets the bar too high which means people will be over paying, then can not spend their money on the economy, and thus people will start losing their jobs, and thus the country goes bankrupt. I still do not understand how Obama is saying “This public option will HELP the economy”.
All the public option is TRYING (thats the key word here) to do is treat the symptoms (which is the high cost of health care) not the cause of it. I beleive that one of the causes of high health care is because of our litigious socity. Doctors have to practice defensive medicine, because if they fail to run one test, and the patient gets ill, the doctor has a lawsuit on his or her hands. People sue for the most rediculous things. Make it where just because a procedure didn’t go as planned, you can not sue anyone unless you have a LOT of evidence that the person involed was purpously negligent. Start with that first. Medmal rates will then go down, then doctors wont have to charge as much for their services. As for pre-ex conditions, why doesn’t the government make a special pool for that? They do that for auto here in Texas. You know why the government doesn’t? Because they know they can’t afford it. So if they can’t afford it, how in the hell can they expect insurance companies to? And one more thing to help lower the cost of healthcare is to let insurance companies compete across state lines. Compition is good for the consumer.
The approach you described is almost what insurance companies do to minimize the risk now. But it is only a guessing game an average at best.
This approach has not been working. In fact I believe it has had an adverse effect, preventing the growth needed to sustain their true risk.
I think it’s a new equation they haven’t thought of.
I truly believe Obama has a grasp of all this and gives me the impression that he would rather work with insurance companies. Both could benefit in a very good way.
I do not understand your “logic” at all. How in the heck does few insurance companies = lower rates? The more companies you have competing, the lower they have to drop their rates in order to get your business. The reason why companies haven’t lowered their rates is because of two things. 1. the COST of health care is on the rise 2. There are already so many regulations in place, so there isn’t enough competion there.
Lower the cost of health care, and the rates should follow.
Also, think about this. If EVERYONE had health insurance, how many people would start going to the doctor just for a case of the sniffles? Also, putting a cap on doctor’s fees would be a bad idea too. Someone mentioned later on in this thread that ADD is a farse and used just to sell more drugs. If you put caps on the doctors’ fees, how many MORE RX are going to be needlessly perscribed just so the doc can make more money (in reality, thats the only way they COULD make decent money). If you take out the profit, how many people do you think would still go to med school? Not very many. You would have more people wanting treatment, but less doctors to treat them.
I understand your frustration and I use to think the same way but I’ve been waiting 15 years for the competition factor to quick in but have learned that the insurance companies stick together on rate and compete on name brand, company reputation and coverage plan options(which are very similar). They all charge about the same.
It is because the companies rates are controled by the actuarial data and not by what the competition is charging.
IF the actuary says you can’t lower a rate. Then you can’t lower the rate, even if it means not being able to compete with the other insurer.
So it doesn’t matter if their 20 competitors or just 2, but naturally just 2 insurers means each has a huge spread but they also have more claims to even it up.
Even the 2 insurer’s need more spread to meet their shareholder demands. The only way to get this done is mandate everyone carry health insurance.
The trick is getting it enforced. Like auto insurance we need good enforcement, which we don’t have now.
Funny auto medical claims effect the cost of health insurance. If the states would simply lists themselves as additiona insured to every driver’s insurance policy. Problem solved.
Except they may have to higher someone to keep track of he cancellation notices.
I can kinda understand where you are going with rates being based on acuary data (which is true) but the fact is the more companies you have, the more the risk is spread, and thus the acuary can see “Hey, we have some good risks here, lets lower the rates some more so we can get some more insured”. But then again, i am not an acuary.
You mentioned that you don’t think auto is regulated properly. What do you think needs changed in auto? I personally think that there need to be more SIU investigations on claims because I think there is more fraud out there then you think. I find it ironic that the people that commit fraud are the first to complain about how much they are paying, but either do not understand or do not care that one of the reasons that the rates are the way they are is because of claims paid out due to fraud.
I can kinda understand where you are going with rates being based on acuary data (which is true) but the fact is the more companies you have, the more the risk is spread, and thus the acuary can see “Hey, we have some good risks here, lets lower the rates some more so we can get some more insured”. But then again, i am not an acuary.
You mentioned that you don’t think auto is regulated properly. What do you think needs changed in auto? I personally think that there need to be more SIU investigations on claims because I think there is more fraud out there then you think. I find it ironic that the people that commit fraud are the first to complain about how much they are paying, but either do not understand or do not care that one of the reasons that the rates are the way they are is because of claims paid out due to fraud.
Although she has a handle on the problem which is that the Democrats have an insatiable desire to spend money, particularly when they can claim humanitarian reasons, including this tragedy labeled Health Reform, the proposed solutions by Sarah are solidly Democrat.
Obama coined the phrase Excess Profits and millions have jumped on the bandwagon. Profit built the United States! I guess we could start dictating how much money businesses and people can earn, thus creating a little Eastern bloc country of our own, but don’t forget, they all live in 450 sf government issued apartments in the Ukraine.
Has anyone been following the drought in California??? It came as news to me that that the whole thing was caused by Congress in December of 2008 when they voted to support the 2 inch fish rather than the local farmers. Congress shut off the water to this valley! Well it all makes sense now, exactly who Congress represents!! Congress has been representing the fish! There have been 40,000 people put out of work because the Congress refuses to turn the water back on and bankrupt farmers are standing in food lines eating carrots from China! It’s a true story! So, Allan…….you’re comfortable with these people in charge of your child’s cancer treatment????? They’re looking out for a fish more than the citizens of California!
80% of people in the 60’s opposed Medicare when it was moving through legistation and now everyone who’s enrolled in it loves it.
A bill that should not have passed in the senate the way it did. I almost want to move to Nebraska. Although VT. and Ma.is closer. It’s just one more stinkfest out of Washington.
If you want cleaner air join the SIP(send incumbents packing) movement next time you vote!!
The other 50% are confused to the point of wanting to take no action. So how do you figure all of the people are against this? Show me the math.
Also, Health care reform will help put a huge curve in age and health discrimination in the work place. Companies might actually start hiring based on skill rather then health. No more will they have to hire based on how much they think this person will cause the rates to go up.
Ya think?
I believe that 100% would be against this bill if everyone knew just what was in it and how much it is going to cost us in the long run. Why is it so important to push this bill through so fast? I have always been taught that if it has to be a quick decission there are facts that you do not know. This is the first step to a socialized government and I can not support it at all. Even the analysts say that is will cost us less to do nothing and that there is a better way to accomplish the goal. Do not be mislead by the democratic solidatity it is just their way to force socialism down out throats. All Americans need to tell the democratic idiots to just stop and go home for Christmas and really work out a plan that helps after the first of the year. Obama has not done anything that he promised yet and why do we want to force us to pay forever for this mistake now.
Dont think this will help any worker old or young! It will make employers think, How can we reduce our healthcare costs. Right now under a group plan the cost is per employee and the whole group is rated based on the average age of the group. In the future it will be per employee. I would hire the young person first the way the current law reads. But then if you make the cost mandatory on employers it will cause tremendous layoffs and unemployment will skyrocket. Obama and Congress is on a collission course with an economic depression in both spending and taxes. It is their plan.
Amen Thomas, Vote them all out!
Funny how the Tea party movement has the most favorability rating of any party, but yet it is not even a political party.
People are mad as hell about this legislation our president and congress is spending our money like drunken sailors. I can not believe that some idiots are even in favor of this. Can they not figure our that the tax bill is coming in the mail for all of Obamas Utiopia, our grandkids will not even be able to pay this off.
“All Americans need to tell the democratic idiots to just stop and go home for Christmas and really work out a plan that helps after the first of the year.”
We’ve been telling them and telling them – through tea parties, town halls, phone calls, letters, emails, the march on Washington on Sept. 12, the rally at the Capitol a few weeks ago, every poll in existence from CNN to Rasmussen to you name it – and they are not listening to us. They are giving the American people the one-finger salute and paying no attention to us whatsoever.
I thought it was interesting that taxpayer money was doled out to convince any dems on the fence about reform to vote in favor of this heap of crap. Nelson essentially sold his vote and Lieberman was also quick to pull a 180. Funny how closed door meetings can change a senators mind so quickly when he/she or their respective state stands to benefit.
This 2000+ piece of crap does nothing to address the real problems with the healthcare system and would serve Americans best if used as fireplace kindling.
Funny how passage of this monstrosity will result in immediate tax increases to start paying for it, despite the fact that it doesn’t actually get implemented for years. (after the presidential election of course)
I for one cannot wait until 2010 elections to get these morons out of office.
You must not be very old. The US citizens of this country have been trying to get health care reform for the past 20 years. Where have you been? This is not something that was put together over night.
I don’t get the impression that you’ve read the bill. This bill is the least of your worries.
At this point whatever happens to health care is a little to late. We are entering the second phase before WWIII officially gets under way.
Obama said this “it will get worse before it gets better”. Oh yes, and he is right.
You know as well as anyone that Presidents can only sign bills. They don’t make it happen. Our corrupt and confused politicians have run this country a muck.
It’s too late. And has been since the Louisiana Purchase. We have never been free. The power simply changed hands.
Put some meat on your bones, because you will be without food for days on end.
Learn how to hunt, fish and camp. Don’t try to hang on to the material things that you have now, it will only cause your demise.
But most of all learn how to love all, including your enemies. When you learn to love without prejudice, then you also will know how to forgive. If you don’t do these things in this life ,then your lesson will become much harder in the next life. You will be humbled and there is no escape.
To All My Democratic Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2010, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wish.
To My Republican Friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ 2010.
Well one thing that was lost early on was whether or not this would allow for ILLEGAL Immigrants to get health care. Everyone has focused on Abortion, A Public Option, etc.. What about Illegal Immigrants? Don’t forget the Illegal’s suck up hundreds of millions of our US Tax dollars so this bill, when finalized & passed (unfortunately, its inevitable I think), it better NOT have ANY funding for Abortion and BETTER NOT allow for Illegal Immigrants to receive benefits.
Great point Mark, Remember when he republican congressman yelled out “you lie” when Obama gave his speach. Well he was wrong and right at the same time.
They will not allow illeagals to get health care covered by their massive program. The problem is Congress and our wonderful president will make them all legal! They want their vote!
THey also want the additional tax revenue
…and a Merry Christmas to you Bill. At a low point in our country’s history, Christmas comes as a great reminder of why we still have hope.
Dear Tom Harkin,
Since you have obviously had your head in the clouds, today’s most recent liberal CNN poll shows that 58% are OPPOSED TO THIS LEGISLATION. Only 42% support it! Of course CNN spun it saying “support rising for healthcare”…when after a close reading, it’s revealed that as of December 2, only 36% supported the legislation. 56% were opposed. The article does accurately conclude that “the majority of Americans are against it”.
So, to all of you “supporters”, you are in the minority. And you have gotten temporarily quite lucky to find a congress successfully bribed by their leader. That’s one to be proud of.
Of course democrats want illegals made legal…they DO want their vote. In fact, they’ll NEED their vote. It’s how Obama got elected after all….promising freebies for all….they came out in droves…..and he’s giving out lots of those freebies via his policies, he’s just not giving them to the people who earn money. The Democrats platform has always been that the goverment will provide…what better group to plead their case??? Those that climb the fence wanting maternity benefits, a drivers license, and tax free income…..
The great thing is that there actually is HOPE! Because his agenda is becoming glaringly clear to many people, and it simply isn’t sustainable, as he would take our country down, to be King of the World. Not so fast buddy.
The democrats bribed him with more money for his state. Isn’t that illegal.
Why does everyone who’s enrolled in Medicare love it? Because they are the beneficiaries of a government transfer payment!
The Medicare program has contributed substantially to the rise in the level of health insurance premiums. Using Medicare to support a competitive government insurance plan is a false analogy. Medicare beats out private insurers in the senior market because it cheats.
Medicare cheats by setting its fee schedule, by government fiat, to health care providers below the cost of providing that service. A hospital would go belly-up if it only had Medicare patients. It must make up that revenue somewhere (even if the hospital is a non-profit!). It can only do so by shifting its costs onto privately-insured or self-insured patients. This drives up the private insurers’ loss costs, and consequently their premiums (even the non-profit health insurers that exist in all fifty states, dominating the market in some of them!)
Medicare then further cheats by charging a premium inadequate even for these reduced loss costs. How do I know it’s inadequate? Because the program must collect a payroll tax to function, and it STILL runs a deficit.
Everyone who is in Medicare may love it, but it’s bad for the country as a whole.
Big Turtle, Give me one good credible thing that the current Senate Bill will do to reduce the cost of healthcare.
Thats right nothing!
Small business is going out of business at an alarming rate. Bankrupcies are at historic levels and the Government is spending money like crazy.
Get your head out of your shell turtle. this bill sucks! full of special interest garbage.
Big Turtle, Give me one good credible thing that the current Senate Bill will do to reduce the cost of healthcare.
Thats right nothing!
Small business is going out of business at an alarming rate. Bankrupcies are at historic levels and the Government is spending money like crazy.
Get your head out of your shell turtle. this bill sucks! full of special interest garbage.
I just can not wait to see all of the liberals on this blog scream when they get their income tax bill in april 2011. Lets see how they feel about things then. Obamacare does not go into effect until 2014 but we are paying for it this coming year. All liberals think someone else paying for something is great until they have to pay. I guess thats why they give almost half of what conservatives give to charity. That is a fact, Many studies have been performed to track the political affiliations of those that donate to charities. Lets see how they feel when Obamacare cost them a huge tax increase. I cant wait.
The people that pay for it dont’ love it. The doctors and other medical care providers that are shorted in their payments don’t love it. The program has billions in unfunded liabilities, so who loves it? Liberals such as yourself apparently. Do I want to do away with it, not really, but I would like to see it fixed with realistic funding and payment schedules. This is a bit much to ask however, since the goal of this adminstration and congress is not fixing anything. Just taking over everything. We all need help occasionally, but I had a mother, I don’t need the government to be a second mother.
Sheltowee,
It is going to be difficult to hire on skill in this country. In case you haven’t noticed for the past 20 years the education merits of this country have gone down the toilet due to excess spending on government wars and endless supplies of foreign aid (err…donations cause it’s never paid back, just take a loke at the $100B guaranteed a year to developing countries because the US has wronged them so). The implementation of health care reform hasn’t done anything to reform the true cost of health care, therefore premiums will continue to go up and the government will now just have their hand in it.
This is health insurance reform and it will cost us in other areas of this country. Next item on the list to slash is education.
If GREs (gov’t run enterprises) are so good, how come the USPS, Amtrak, Fannie and Freddie, can’t make a profit, medicare and SS are going bankrupt, and how come we are one of the worst countries in the world with respects to education.
You can’t put it in a box on a shelf. The law of supply and demand for insurnace does not work.
THe supply(insurance premiums)are limited and no one insurer as enough of it to pay claims and be profitable. There aren’t enough rich people paying premiums to keep them going and when they loose the middle class, which is what is happening, they are bankrupt.
So if you really want the truth. All insurance (with perhaps the exception of life and accident insurance)should be sold only by a few non profit companies with strict federal oversight.
This is common sense and this is the only thing that will work in the long run.
You and everyone else need to change your perspective.
Just because it will put people out of work in this industry doesn’t mean it should continue on it’s path to self destruction.
You know, like the auto industry. Accept atleast this industry was a perfect example of how the law of supply and demand works.
I took Bible study class 25 or so years ago and I remember the minister saying that the collapse of the insurance industry is the beginning of the end. I also remember it being told that strange things will begin to happen, like a person’s perception becomes more alert (ESP).
A few months ago in the AM I was flipping fast forward on my DVR to one of my recorded news programs and in an instant (probably a few seconds) this image appeared. The best way I can describe it is that it was bright red (looked burnt), a man’s profile somewhat, bald (no hair) and very black eyes(no whites). And he or she was smiling just slightly as if it knew I was looking. The background I remember was an office setting, very odd.
My first thought that this was an ad for a new horror flick. However, I had no trace of it afterwards and haven’t seen it again.
We’ve all had the experience of thinking of someone and then they call or thinking of a song and turning on the radio and it’s playing.
Well I’ve been doing this about everday now for the past year.
Is this happening to anyone else? ANd has anyone else seen what I’m describing?
Medicare is ENTIRELY irrelevant to the discussion of the disaster that the democrats have proposed. It might not be for long though, when the “reform” steals money from Medicare as they plan….by reducing payments to doctors and hospitals. Those providers are getting screwed as it is, and they’ll simply pull out and take higher paying patients. That leaves the elderly patient in the lurch, and Allen, I dare say, as the elderly have been screaming for months, they aren’t going to like Medicare so much anymore. If I were elderly, and had a choice financially, that sure isn’t the entity I would choose to be insured by. Let’s don’t forget……everyone agrees…THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE AGAINST THIS LEGISLATION AND THE DEMOCRATS THINK THEY KNOW BETTER THAN THE MAJORITY OF US. That’s called losing touch with your constituents and simply running with your own personal agenda.
Wonder what’s up for reform next?
There ya go. You said it yourselves. Medicare works. It maybe in the red, but the single payer system in place works.
Is everyone happy that we as a nation spend twice as much as other leading, rich, free, industrialized countries and get less? We’re a laughing stock right now and it’s because of all the fear mongering going on that your hear in the media from the right. They want to get paid. Don’t you see it?
You want to tell me that predjudice against pre-existing conditions, policy recisions and high costs are just fine for this country?
You want to tell me that when your insurance policy fails to cover an ailment for yourself or loved one it’s ok to get a divorce so your ex-spouse can go on Medicaid to recieve care? This is what makes our country great?
I’m sorry. But if your in favor of what we have now and do not like reform, you are just plain stupid.
SINGLE PAYER SYSTEMS WORK!!!!
Google – Cloward and Piven Strategy
Obama has studied this strategy for years and was obsessed with it in college from what some have said. The strategy is to overwelm the country with wellfare and social programs to the point that it falls into a socialist system by a majority demand of the population. In order to do this you need the establishment of major social programs that overwelm the financial systems and our tax structure as well as subvert the US constitution which calls for a small central government and states rights. Google it to find out more.
Cloward and Piven Strategy – Obama studied and has called it a great example of how we can establish “social economic justice”.
Allan, if Medicare is broke, it doesn’t work. They already give low reimbursements. In what way does it work if us poor taxpayer/owners have to keep shoveling the money into this rathole? The government can keep shoveling money into all the various rat holes because us barely a majority of citizens pay taxes and the we keep borrowing. This has to stop.
Well Guess what? Had the Republicans not been so inept and corrupt regarding the financial and insurance industry we wouldn’t be having this debate now. And we could have had a much better plan. Basically, the politicians that are wining now are the ones who turned a blind eye. They are to blame for all of this, because in fact health care has been an issue since before Jimmy Carter.
I am sick of the right wing media tyring to confuse people with their misleading information. “middle class tax hikes”. they must be refering to the upper middle class making over $250K. Small business will survive this you ding dongs. They’ll benefit by not having to worry about health insurance cost. They will always find a new deduction.
To tell you the truth I don’t feel very free with my current group health plan. It tells me when I can get treatment, it tells me what doctor to use and it tells me what medications I can and can’t take (by means of coverage). so what’s the big difference?
Small business will survive because they don’t have to worry about health costs?????????
And….the reason they won’t have to worry??? Because, per the legislation, they will receive “tax credits” ie federal government money, to offset the expense. Simply put, that means the Federal Government will now piggy back and carry the expense of small businesses employees health insurance. And, why?????
If the legislation is going to reduce costs, then why is the government offering to subsidize it for them???????? Because the government hasn’t solved the problem with their legislation!!!!!!!!!!
So what’s your complaint?
BY THE WAY I AM A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, UNDER 250k. The only thing I’m confused about is people like yourself that continue to say that just because Obama wants to regulate the insurance industry (the only federal unregulated industry an the wealthiest industry in the world).
Again had we done this 40 years ago we all would be financially, and morally better off.
Why are you so against a good thing? What is it really going to cost you? Can you put a number to that?
Wake up. Group Health is primarily rated on the healthiness of the whole group. Right now you have people being discriminated against and losing their jobs because the employer and other employees don’t want you around to mess up their rates. How would you feel if you suddenly was diagnosed with cancer and then suddenly co workers don’t like you anymore and you get fired for some lame reason? This has happened and it will continue to get worse if this bill doesn’t pass.
If you are a small business “under 250K” I assume you are basically self employed, and desire the government to pay your health insurance???? I definitely don’t see you as a company of any size employing personnel, and hoping that you can purchase the best possible coverage for your employees at an affordable cost. You appear to be salivating at the idea that the federal government can now pay this bill, which private industry, was being challenged by.
The insurance industry “unregulated”. Really??? Do you really think they are? You sound like an outsider to me.
As far as what this health legislation is going to cost me, BESIDES YOUR HEALTH PREMIUMS, is the increase in my own premiums when insurers are required to provide additional loss payments (due to unlimited lifetime max requirements, no preexisting conditions exclusion, no underwriting for age and sex, etc.). It’s also going to cost me federal tax dollars when Obama gives away federal tax revenues in the form of credits to everyone…small business, families of four earning under 88k, free coverage for the indigent/poor, etc. etc. I will NOT be a beneficary of this bill, nor will the majority of Americans, which they understand and is why they oppose it.
So, the Democrats health plan, surprise surprise, is yet another Obama redistribution of wealth. He campaigned on it, and here it is.
Then go tell a group of seniors that want to take away their Medicare and see what kind of response you’ll get.
Hell, tell your grandparents that want to take away their Medicare and I’ll bet they’ll stop mailing you $10 every year for your B-Day.
That’s not what this person was saying at all. He’s saying that through his current healt plan, he has restrictions that dictates what treatments are aloud under his particular plan. Sure, he can upgrade. But at what costs?
Why do people like you never listen? Why do you only care about yourselves? You act as if you’ll never use the medical services provided to you that the current legislation is trying to change.
Oh, wait a minute. Remember the Public Option is no longer on the table. So, sorry, there will be no government run health care in place and we will use our own money to pay for our own private or group plan.
Why are we having this conversation again?
What does that have to do with the fact that Medicare is a failed and bankrupt program Allan? Just like a liberal, if it doesn’t work, it would if we would just do it more. The very definition of insanity. Your opinions are interesting Allan. Sometimes they almost make sense, but not on this monstrosity.
Then do it then. Tell your grandparents or your own parents, if they are over age 65, that you want Medicare stripped from the pages of government and see the reaction you’ll get.
Why? Because the single payer is a proven system. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/
Yes, it is having funding issues from our enept government. But don’t tell me it hasn’t worked since 1965.
I get Big Turtle but I don’t get you.
IF the spread was larger, even with auto insurance the rates should be low.
The insurance companies know this but can’t do this, so they minimize their risk, creating smaller pools and charging more premiums.
So how do we get a larger spread for insuranc companies? With fewer insurance companies.
It’s that simple.
How do we get fewer insurance companies?
With regulation to set the bar for them, requiring them to be of a certain size, and according to their actuarial capacity.
This is why they want it to be the law to carry health insurance. Just like it is the law to carry auto insurance.
So you either want it to work or you don’t.
Mr Taxman with all do respect I don’t believe your plan will not work because your companies will run out of spread with either the rates continuing to rise, causing more and more people to drop out or more insurers entering the market, creating another spread by taking away from the other existing spreads. God forbid if both are happening at the same time.
This is your basic economics my friend. What you propose is hypothesis.
And to make general statements, sterotyping all people and laying blame to a certain behaivor is not practical and bad economics.
Fair competition is good for the consumer. Letting insurance companies to compete across State Lines won’t do didlely squat in regard to lower rates.
You know we don’t even have regulation and rates have been going up on average about 20% each year and coverage dropping approximtely 50%.
So what’s causing this my fiend? This to your surpise no doubt happening in States were there is no limit to the number insurance companies allowed to do business. They simply apply for a charter. And many of the companies are coming across State lines to compete.
Why isn’t econ 101 working? It’s had a 20 year pilot test in Missouri. I guess we’re all just a bunch of sue happy nimcompoops.
ANd as for one reason
Sorry I hit the enter key before I said this!
Who invented Attention defecit disorder?
I believe this is the biggest fraud of the medical field.
There is an attention deficit disorder alright. It’s called boredom, stress, distraction and just plain normal behavior.
Teachers think because kids don’t pay attention in school they say they’re ADD and the Doctor promptly perscribes seriously addictive, expensive and harmful medication, which will be a monkey on their back for life.
I say these kids are simply hands on learners and just want to work with their hands, or they want to go out and play or they have distractions and can’t focus (like problems at home or being picked on). There are all kind of reasons.
But I say most Doctors are in it for the big bucks. They are quacks that have convinced themselves that because they can do it, it is right.
We aren’t sue happy. WE’re over medicated.
THey even get schools to recruit more patients by presuring the parents to seek medical help, because their kid is acting like he’s ADD. \
The grade school in my town had a poster that said Abraham Lincoln was ADD.
WELL I’ll be a donkey’s ***. But how did they do that. They hadn’t even invented it yet and even if it were true. He’s living proof you don’t need a label and ya don’t need Retlin or what ever they give kids now (cocaine patch no doubt).
There is a day of reconning coming for our Country!
There is most definately a day when Social Security goes bankrupt!
There is most definately a day when Medicare goes completely broke!
There is a day when we cannot pay back China or they stop loaning us money!
WHAT DO YOU PROPPOSE THEN?
PLEASE ANSWER WITHOUT AN EMOTIONAL OUTBURST OF RIDICULE OR FACTLESS STATEMENTS OF FEELINGS. FACTS PLEASE!
I agree with you on ADD. It’s as much a scam as this supposed health cost control bill. This is one reason the costs of medical care have driven up insurance costs. Despite the opinions of the lunatics that seem to have taken over this site, insurance reflects costs. Insurance companies do not make huge profits. The profit percentage is whaaaay down the list. Look at controlling costs folks. Nothing in this bill does that. One commentor brought up new taxes. There are at least a dozen new taxes in these bills. Our pockets are no longer that deep. Nobody wants to loan us any more. STOP THE SPENDING!
I am pleased that you are concerned about how I feel and your exclamation points indicate that you are very excited. I hope you’re not having an emotional outburst.
You suffer from the very thing that the insurance industry markets “FEAR”. and combined with distrust creates confusion.
What will I do? Hunt, Fish, gather food make fire and build shelter.
I fear for the people who live in the East. Resources will be very scarce. This is where most of the devastation and destruction occurs.
Isreal needs to start evacuating their country.
Iran suffers from pride and impatience. They are getting ready to follow through with their plans. They are just a few dollars short.
When the coup detat in Iran occurs this is when it all begins.
Whether this Health bill passes or not it really doesn’t matter. Our Gov’t waited way too long and nothing will stop what is about to occur.
This bill only determines how strong we will be at the time it occurs.
I’m saying that the bill needs to pass so that we can have a burst in our economy in order to prepare for the War a head.
THe day is coming when you dial 911 and no one will come to stop the home envasion or the murder across the street. People will turn on each other.
There isn’t a whole lot of preparation a person can do. Accept not to panick and focus on survival.
Turtle, your statement is a rant and excuses for our position we will be in after all of this irresponsible spending.
Again, let me ask it another way,
What would you do if you were in a position of power to do something. Would you vote for this bill, knowing we are going broke and the programs you are establishing will ruin our financial ability to survive.
Well thats exactly what we are doing if this bill passes.
Again, facts please no emotional statements of feeling for the poor or have a heart statements. Adults know that the financial system is not about feelings its about monetary policy.
I am looking for your financial plan for our Country. Those on the Left need to figure something out. They are in power now and not conservatives, who didnt do a good job when they were in power. But hey thats in the past. What is the Financial plan to get Medicare, Social Security, and all of the other new bankrupt or going bankrupt soon plans. Bush at least tried to get Social Security in better footing but was rebuked by the Left in his state of the union speach in 2006. Again thats the past. Lets look forward,
WHAT IS YOUR FINANCIAL PLAN TO GET US OUT OF THIS MESS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? WOULD YOU CREATE A 1.8 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE NOW. WOULD YOU START A WHOLE NEW ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM LIKE NATIONAL HEALTHCARE WITH NO SAVINGS TO THE CONSUMER LIKE THE CURRENT HOUSE BILL?
Sarah, It is obvious that you don’t want to answer Big Turtle’s questions and I think your question was answered in the last response to you. Read it again.
Although I would like more detail about what programs and why they are going to ruin our financial stability.
Funny I thought our financial stability was already ruined.
I didn’t detect any emotion from Big Turtle and I didn’t read any references to the poor. Only to people in general. Maybe most people to you are poor.
Do you have something against poor people? Or is it the middle class? Or do you group them together? Or do you put the middle class above 250K per year?
I think Big Turtle said that it didn’t really matter if this bill passed or not.
Again, a rant of emotion and feelings. Money has no feelings and my original question is about monetary policy. My feelings about the poor is irrelevent as is yours.
What are we going to do when our Country is completely insolvent due to these enormous financial programs that the left is so in love with.
These are facts,
Social Security will be completely insolvent in 2023. CBO report.
Medicare, Actually is using IOU’s right now.
1.8 Trillion dollar deficit 2009.
What is your financial plan to get us out of this mess, since the left has got us into it and continues to push us that way, what is your plan.
I sometimes feel like I am talking to my teenager in College.
What I would do is this.
Regulate the insurance industry in this way.
A stool with three legs.
first leg – madatory rate caps
second leg – make it illegal to deny coverage to any citizen or rate based on health, age, gender or territory.
third leg – Require and enforce that every insurer be of a certain size in financial strength and liquid assests. $50 billion is a good number. Insurance companies must only be non for profit. It worked much better for Blue Cross and Blue Shield when this was the case but because of other rinky dink companies were pressured into changing. This is when health insurance was affordable and insurance companies could actually afford preventive care for their members.
This way is less expensive and would solve the problem of our insurance woes.
I wonder sometimes who the majority of the shareholders are for the insurance companies we seemed to equate as good ole boys from the US. I wonder if a lot of them are living in China and Saudi Arabia?
What do you think?
Now, at least you are using numbers and logic without emotion!
Thats sounds interesting, but what about creating a new entitlement program that will cost us trillions. You see the current healthcare reform was looked at by CBO as deficit neutral for 10 years thats because is assumes liberals will cut medicare by 500 billion and it also uses a 10 year period being paid for starting next year with our taxes and only goes into effect in 2014 which means we are paying for something for 10 years but getting only 6 years of healthcare.
So if you figure it out for the next 10 years starting in 2010 through 2020 it is going to create a deficit of over 2 or 3 trillion dollar deficit added to the already enormous deficits we are facing with Social Security and Medicare not to mention any additional spending on cliamate change which we just agreed to pay 100 billion over the next 10 years.
HMMMMM… sounds like we dont really have a plan and this bill should not pass and maybe we should reduce some of our spending so our children and grandchildren are not indebted to China.
Sometimes it is wise to listen to your children.
I do agree that we can and should reform the “COST” of healthcare. here are some of my plans. But not involve the Government into any spending what so ever!! WE ARE BROKE!
The only way we will benefit from Healthcare Reform is if we have no sacred cows.
1. Doctors can not make a million dollars a year, Lets subsidize their education rather than their salary. They need fee schedules. They should not be able to own rehab and testing labs where they send us for test to prove something they already know. Why do we have to pay one doctor to get a referral to another doctor? That’s crazy. Give us a prescription that lasts for our life if we have a disease that requires we take medicine for life.
2. Insurance companies need standard policy forms like we have in personal auto and Homeowners policy. HO3 H05 HO8. etc. They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money. Establishing affordable premiums should be easy to develop, due to the law of large numbers and mortality tables and an extraordinary amount of statistical data available to actuaries. Carriers are entitled to a fair profit, key word fair when it comes to health insurance. I don’t care if the make a fortune on my car insurance I can always find someone to insure my car.
3. Pharmaceutical companies need to sell us their medicine for the same amount they sell to Canada and only make a certain profit margin after R & D.
4. Lawyers- We need to get them out of the business of sucking on society. We need National mandatory Tort reform for those blood sucking leaches.
5. Congressmen are not allowed to take any political contributions from any entity which is involved in heathcare. Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Doctors. Etc. You see what happened when Dodd and Frank got sweetheart deals from Countrywide and expounded how Freddie and Fannie were in great financial shape as federal regulaters were warning them about collapse . We all almost went broke. Oh by the way all congressmen and senators will be required to take whatever plan they establish for us and pay half the premium. While we are at it they have to forgo their current retirement plan of %100 percent of their annual salary and replace it with Social Security. But they shouldn’t worry; we as their employer will pay half of this benefit like our employers do for us. Welcome to being and American citizen.
6. Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..
7. Hospitals can’t charge $3000 for an emergency room visit. They should be paid by the hour
I do agree that we can and should reform the “COST” of healthcare. here are some of my plans. But not involve the Government into any spending what so ever!! WE ARE BROKE!
The only way we will benefit from Healthcare Reform is if we have no sacred cows.
1. Doctors can not make a million dollars a year, Lets subsidize their education rather than their salary. They need fee schedules. They should not be able to own rehab and testing labs where they send us for test to prove something they already know. Why do we have to pay one doctor to get a referral to another doctor? That’s crazy. Give us a prescription that lasts for our life if we have a disease that requires we take medicine for life.
2. Insurance companies need standard policy forms like we have in personal auto and Homeowners policy. HO3 H05 HO8. etc. They also need an excess profit law where they must return a certain profit back if they make too much money. Establishing affordable premiums should be easy to develop, due to the law of large numbers and mortality tables and an extraordinary amount of statistical data available to actuaries. Carriers are entitled to a fair profit, key word fair when it comes to health insurance. I don’t care if the make a fortune on my car insurance I can always find someone to insure my car.
3. Pharmaceutical companies need to sell us their medicine for the same amount they sell to Canada and only make a certain profit margin after R & D.
4. Lawyers- We need to get them out of the business of sucking on society. We need National mandatory Tort reform for those blood sucking leaches.
5. Congressmen are not allowed to take any political contributions from any entity which is involved in heathcare. Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Doctors. Etc. You see what happened when Dodd and Frank got sweetheart deals from Countrywide and expounded how Freddie and Fannie were in great financial shape as federal regulaters were warning them about collapse . We all almost went broke. Oh by the way all congressmen and senators will be required to take whatever plan they establish for us and pay half the premium. While we are at it they have to forgo their current retirement plan of %100 percent of their annual salary and replace it with Social Security. But they shouldn’t worry; we as their employer will pay half of this benefit like our employers do for us. Welcome to being and American citizen.
6. Get Chiropractors out of healthcare. For goodness sakes my vet has more training than they do. News flash! They are not doctors..
7. Hospitals can’t charge $3000 for an emergency room visit. They should be paid by the hour
Sure, Right? But I certainly wouldnt give them my credit card…lol..
I would hate to see your credit score.
I hear crickets…..churp churp….
The left has no plan for our financial future to get us out of debt. except spend, spend, spend…
Thanks Turtle at least you tried to come up with something, it raises the cost of healthcare but at least you tried.
Facts without emotion or ridicule, please!
You’re putting to much confidence with reports and your actuarial predictions.
Take a deep breath and don’t worry about this bill passing, because it will.
But you’re right it probably won’t work. But it’s not going to work if it dosen’t pass either, so what’s the difference?
Taxes and the cost of everything are going to go up regardless.
I think you should be more concerned about the cap and trade. This is a no brainer. It shouldn’t pass. And it won’t if this bill passes.
Don’t you see that our politicians are confused, corrupt and blinded by lobby money? They think the lobbyiest handing them a check are all knowing. So what are we going to do about it? Make Lobby money illegal like Newt said?
You see if you are not willing to address the remedial simple problems then you will not receive the results you are wanting.
Unfortunately, it will have to get worse before it gets better.
Only when people are completely out of income and resources will they mass by the thousands and show up at the white house. But to do what? Enter into an empty building?
This is beyond anyone’s control at this point. What should have been done decades ago wasn’t done. IT’S TOO LATE.
UNLESS WE CAN MASS BY THE THOUSANDS AND SHOW UP AT THE SENATE AND HOUSE AND REMOVE OUR POLITICIANS AND PUT IN PLACE A PUBLIC VOTE ON THE THINGS WE KNOW WILL WORK.
People are too isolated from each other. Just like the Indian tribes that fought against each other long before the spanish reached the Americas.
The white man didn’t change the way of life for the Indians. They did. Because they couldn’t get along with each other. This was dark and bloody ground and will remain so. What were they fighting about? Hunting ground and pride.
Nothing’s changed since man rose up from the earth.
RANTING, YES. But I speak the truth.
Fortunately for me my kids are more conservative then I am with money.
How does this raise the cost of health care? Please explain how bigger pools and rate caps raise the cost of health care?
Your emotions are getting the better of you.
I find several problems with your ideas. Lets start with the rate caps and forcing companies to cover EVERYONE. Acualrily, it can not work. Think of it as auto insurance. Should a person with an excellent driving record be charged the same as someone that has a horrible one? If you set it too low, over time the company will go broke, set it to high, and you get a lot of people paying more then they have too (hence why a lot of conservitives are pissed off at this bill). Lets say you are a good driver, and right now you are paying $50 a month for your insurance. Now a law passes and your company has to charge a flat rate to everyone. Well, they have some high risk drivers as well, so in order to stay solovent, they have to jack up the rates on the lower premium policies, namely yours, to twice of what you are paying. You should only be paying $50, but you are now paying $100. You would be pissed too.
Just think of it in terms of bad drivers=bad health, good drivers=good health.
And before you say “There should be a cap on how much profit an insurane company makes” That is not acuarily sound either because they might have 3 years with a low amount of claims, but then the next year they could have a year of claims that eats thru all that profit and then some.
Here is your statement of your view of the solutions needed to reduce costs. The problem with your solutions is that health insurance is not in a vaccum its cost is based on the cost of what it covers. Basic tenate of insurance.
A stool with three legs.
first leg – madatory rate caps.
THIS CANNOT BE DONE AS IT IS ACTUARIALY IMPOSIBLE TO KEEP RATES LOW AND DO NOTHING TO REDUCE THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.
second leg – make it illegal to deny coverage to any citizen or rate based on health, age, gender or territory. THIS IS WHERE YOUR COST OF CARE WOULD GO UP! INCREASE COST AND YOU WILL INCREASE THE COST OF INSURANCE.
third leg – Require and enforce that every insurer be of a certain size in financial strength and liquid assests. $50 billion is a good number. Insurance companies must only be non for profit. It worked much better for Blue Cross and Blue Shield when this was the case but because of other rinky dink companies were pressured into changing. This is when health insurance was affordable and insurance companies could actually afford preventive care for their members.
WELL FINE IF YOU ARE A COMMUNIST, ACTUALLY HEALTH INSURERS AVERAGE PROFIT TODAY IS 2%. THAT IS A FACT. IF IT WERE SO PROFITABLE WHY ARE THERE NOT MORE CARRIERS WRITING THIS LINE OF BUSINESS. THIS IS THE INSURANCE JOURNAL ISNT IT?
Bill, I could not agree more with you! This is Obama’s plan and that of the far left progressive movement.
Democrats are not bad people. I dont think that the majority of them understand what Cloward and Piven is and the dangers that this fringe element of the left wing of the Democratic party is planing for them. At least on congressman does. The Alabama democratic congressman yesterday stated it so correctly yesterday when he joined the GOP.
I understand Big Turtle perfectly. I’m confused as to why you do not. And you are not answering his questions.
Big Turtle’s idea is to reduce the number of insurance companies and increase the spread for the ones remaining. And yes they will have plenty of money to do this.
Do you know what happened in California when they tried to deregulate the electric companies? Bringing in more competition? People went without electricity, not because they weren’t paying there bills but because there were too many electric companies and each one couldn’t establish enough customer base to keep the electricity going (you only have so many consumers). It actually drove up the cost and limited the supply.
Don’t you see that insurance companies can’t compete fairly? The more insurance companies, the higher the rates. And evetually people will not have the money to pay their premiums. Companies will fold. You’ve got to have the supply and I’m afraid there aren’t enough rich people to keep them going.
Isn’t the United States Postal service privately owned? What do you think would happen if we started opening other privately owned post offices? I’m not talking about FED EX or UPS or companies like them. I’m talking about companies that provide the local and rural mail carriers.
Insurance is not a tangible product. It is a concept, an idea based on fear.
I’m really beginning to believe that you are living in denial based on fear of what could happen but won’t.
The republican senators and congressman are bought and sold. They are being paid to oppose this bill and they have no foresight as to the reality of what the results of this bill would do. If they did we wouldn’t be in this mess now.
They could have been more tenacious in regards to the AIG bail out or the Wall Street bail out. They should actually support this bill. It will give them something to blame when our taxes go up anyway.
What really gets me is that they screwed around during Bush’s two terms with the war in Iraq, costing many lives and much money for a job poorly done. I don’t blame Bush. I voted for him, unfortuantely Dick Cheney ended up running the war. Curious, the longer the war went on the more money his “charity” made and his friends with what was it “Hal something”.
I’m sure it was just an unfortunate coinkidink. I wonder how his hunting partner is doing?
I say we roast them all.
I right beside you Sheltowee.
I think this response was meant for me. Your objections to the stool with three legs lack substance.
If you want to sway my opinion then be more specific to exactly how it wouldn’t work. and offer something that does other than let the insurance companies hash it out.
You basically take the posistion that nothing will work accept to leave things as is. And in case you haven’t noticed. It’s not working.
There is nothing communist about this. Is the US postal service communism?
You can’t simply call insurance regulation communism.
Obama doesn’t want gov’t run health care. He want’s to regulate the insurance industry, because the insurance companies are unable to provide coverage to about half of our citizens.
You say if the insurance companies don’t want to insure them then nobody should. This sounds more like communism to me.
With this attitude what are we doing wasting our time with our gov’t anyway. Let’s just turn everything over to the insurance companies. Only people with insurance are allowed to vote.
Let’s get rid of all of the regulatory agencies and have a free for all.
Let’s abolish all laws and everyone is on their own.
Basically regulating the insurance industry makes us communist.
Is this what you want?
Think about it. Using just a little common sense helps you figure out that a set rate is not benificial. I even gave you an example with auto insurance. If you set the rate too low, you can not afford to pay all the claims that arise. If you take in $150k, but your total expenditures (including paying claims) equals $200k, you can not stay in business. Thats econ 101. If you set the price too high, you get a lot of pissed off people that are paying more then they should (hence the reason why conservitives are against this bill). If the government takes over healthcare, it will either set the bar too low and the country goes bankrupt, or it sets the bar too high which means people will be over paying, then can not spend their money on the economy, and thus people will start losing their jobs, and thus the country goes bankrupt. I still do not understand how Obama is saying “This public option will HELP the economy”.
All the public option is TRYING (thats the key word here) to do is treat the symptoms (which is the high cost of health care) not the cause of it. I beleive that one of the causes of high health care is because of our litigious socity. Doctors have to practice defensive medicine, because if they fail to run one test, and the patient gets ill, the doctor has a lawsuit on his or her hands. People sue for the most rediculous things. Make it where just because a procedure didn’t go as planned, you can not sue anyone unless you have a LOT of evidence that the person involed was purpously negligent. Start with that first. Medmal rates will then go down, then doctors wont have to charge as much for their services. As for pre-ex conditions, why doesn’t the government make a special pool for that? They do that for auto here in Texas. You know why the government doesn’t? Because they know they can’t afford it. So if they can’t afford it, how in the hell can they expect insurance companies to? And one more thing to help lower the cost of healthcare is to let insurance companies compete across state lines. Compition is good for the consumer.
The approach you described is almost what insurance companies do to minimize the risk now. But it is only a guessing game an average at best.
This approach has not been working. In fact I believe it has had an adverse effect, preventing the growth needed to sustain their true risk.
I think it’s a new equation they haven’t thought of.
I truly believe Obama has a grasp of all this and gives me the impression that he would rather work with insurance companies. Both could benefit in a very good way.
And this is what we should advocate.
I agree. This is why thy should become non profit, because this will make them stronger financially.
Finally we agree.
I do not understand your “logic” at all. How in the heck does few insurance companies = lower rates? The more companies you have competing, the lower they have to drop their rates in order to get your business. The reason why companies haven’t lowered their rates is because of two things. 1. the COST of health care is on the rise 2. There are already so many regulations in place, so there isn’t enough competion there.
Lower the cost of health care, and the rates should follow.
Also, think about this. If EVERYONE had health insurance, how many people would start going to the doctor just for a case of the sniffles? Also, putting a cap on doctor’s fees would be a bad idea too. Someone mentioned later on in this thread that ADD is a farse and used just to sell more drugs. If you put caps on the doctors’ fees, how many MORE RX are going to be needlessly perscribed just so the doc can make more money (in reality, thats the only way they COULD make decent money). If you take out the profit, how many people do you think would still go to med school? Not very many. You would have more people wanting treatment, but less doctors to treat them.
I understand your frustration and I use to think the same way but I’ve been waiting 15 years for the competition factor to quick in but have learned that the insurance companies stick together on rate and compete on name brand, company reputation and coverage plan options(which are very similar). They all charge about the same.
It is because the companies rates are controled by the actuarial data and not by what the competition is charging.
IF the actuary says you can’t lower a rate. Then you can’t lower the rate, even if it means not being able to compete with the other insurer.
So it doesn’t matter if their 20 competitors or just 2, but naturally just 2 insurers means each has a huge spread but they also have more claims to even it up.
Even the 2 insurer’s need more spread to meet their shareholder demands. The only way to get this done is mandate everyone carry health insurance.
The trick is getting it enforced. Like auto insurance we need good enforcement, which we don’t have now.
Funny auto medical claims effect the cost of health insurance. If the states would simply lists themselves as additiona insured to every driver’s insurance policy. Problem solved.
Except they may have to higher someone to keep track of he cancellation notices.
I can kinda understand where you are going with rates being based on acuary data (which is true) but the fact is the more companies you have, the more the risk is spread, and thus the acuary can see “Hey, we have some good risks here, lets lower the rates some more so we can get some more insured”. But then again, i am not an acuary.
You mentioned that you don’t think auto is regulated properly. What do you think needs changed in auto? I personally think that there need to be more SIU investigations on claims because I think there is more fraud out there then you think. I find it ironic that the people that commit fraud are the first to complain about how much they are paying, but either do not understand or do not care that one of the reasons that the rates are the way they are is because of claims paid out due to fraud.
I can kinda understand where you are going with rates being based on acuary data (which is true) but the fact is the more companies you have, the more the risk is spread, and thus the acuary can see “Hey, we have some good risks here, lets lower the rates some more so we can get some more insured”. But then again, i am not an acuary.
You mentioned that you don’t think auto is regulated properly. What do you think needs changed in auto? I personally think that there need to be more SIU investigations on claims because I think there is more fraud out there then you think. I find it ironic that the people that commit fraud are the first to complain about how much they are paying, but either do not understand or do not care that one of the reasons that the rates are the way they are is because of claims paid out due to fraud.
Although she has a handle on the problem which is that the Democrats have an insatiable desire to spend money, particularly when they can claim humanitarian reasons, including this tragedy labeled Health Reform, the proposed solutions by Sarah are solidly Democrat.
Obama coined the phrase Excess Profits and millions have jumped on the bandwagon. Profit built the United States! I guess we could start dictating how much money businesses and people can earn, thus creating a little Eastern bloc country of our own, but don’t forget, they all live in 450 sf government issued apartments in the Ukraine.
Has anyone been following the drought in California??? It came as news to me that that the whole thing was caused by Congress in December of 2008 when they voted to support the 2 inch fish rather than the local farmers. Congress shut off the water to this valley! Well it all makes sense now, exactly who Congress represents!! Congress has been representing the fish! There have been 40,000 people put out of work because the Congress refuses to turn the water back on and bankrupt farmers are standing in food lines eating carrots from China! It’s a true story! So, Allan…….you’re comfortable with these people in charge of your child’s cancer treatment????? They’re looking out for a fish more than the citizens of California!