In the End, Obama Won on Economy: Analysis

By Andy Sullivan | November 7, 2012
Barack Obama

  • November 7, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    • November 7, 2012 at 1:28 pm
      Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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      Is adding “Republican obstructionism” at the end of your comment your way of laying blame on the Republicans for the lack of progress the first 4 years of Obama, and establishing your democratic party line excuse in case it is 4 more years of the same?

      • November 7, 2012 at 1:37 pm
        Libby says:
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        • November 7, 2012 at 5:06 pm
          Bob says:
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          Libby:

          And the first 2, regarding immigration reform, in order to win the Latino vote Lib-puff. It was part of the debate. Obama didn’t even put forth immigration reform.

          Not an appropriate way to reply to someone Libby.

          At it again I see.

          • November 7, 2012 at 7:00 pm
            Libby says:
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        • November 8, 2012 at 10:52 am
          Bob says:
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          Libby:

          “butting” in to another person’s “cheetoh puff” insult tied with a lie?

          Yeah. I am. Doesn’t make me a moron. You butted in to me going over what conservative may be, and started out an insult where there were none.

          Sorry Libby, you’re goin to have to learn what “equal” is and you’re going to have to learn to grow up.

          • November 8, 2012 at 10:53 am
            Libby says:
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          • November 8, 2012 at 2:02 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Ok. I admit it. Even though that rehab comment was terribly insulting I busted out laughing reading it.

            It was a very good insult pun.

            You know what I meant Libby, I’m glad you’re having fun with it though.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            I always have fun with you, Bob.

        • November 8, 2012 at 12:52 pm
          Bob says:
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          Libby:

          Not all interventions are the same. When you came in to my conversation, I was talking about something where you came in insulting me and it was not a bitter convo at all. You certainly made it one.

          I did not start this by insulting you. I came in to stop you from insulting someone else. It was bitter to start. You don’t get to insult people without intervention. That’s not butting in. I suppose that time I came in to inteverne and saw someone calling you a “black woman” on benefits that’s butting in as well? I’m consistent Libby. You are just too dense to see it. Insults = intervention. Adding constructively to a conversation, is permitable. Butting in to a conversation the way you did, was insulting.

          Not all situations are the same. Though you like them to be.

          The one who has to grow up, is the one that calls everything the same.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:58 pm
            Libby says:
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      • November 7, 2012 at 2:02 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        No, it’s just speaking the truth.

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:30 pm
          TAR says:
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          Speaking the Truth? That’s funny. It’s amazing how Obama could not run on his record during the entire campaign. He spent an inordinate amount of time and money on demonizing Romney, driving a wedge between classes and establishing a rich / poor electorate. obama is genuinely dishonest and has been an utter failure the past four years. Romney’s problem, he’s a genuine guy. He’s an American success story we all should strive for. The obama machine sights were to retain power and at any cost. Stay away from his four years as president, demonize his opponent, blame the Republicans and blame Bush. Amazing since Obama had all the answers in 2008 while running for President. As a matter of fact, Obama was part of the 2007 class of Senators that helped cause the financial meltdown. Oops can’t talk about that.

          • November 7, 2012 at 2:54 pm
            Michele says:
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            Remember 01-07-2007, the democrats took over congress and blocked and stonewalled every thing Bush was trying to do. One of those stonewallers was Obama in congress. So he created his own mess. Unemployment was 4.5 percent with Bush. Tar is absolutely right. Obama, Polosi, Reid created the mess and are still doing so. he is the worst president this country has ever had bar none. Obama caused the financial crisis along with his cronies the Democrats.

          • November 7, 2012 at 4:33 pm
            David says:
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            Obama had a good record to run on, considering 54% of the promises he made during the 2008 campaign, were either kept or successful in compromise (that’s out of more than 500 promises). Only 17% were broken, 9% were stalled, and 20% were still in the works. That’s according to non-partisan Politifact.com. On the other hand, the Republicans made far less promises, and delivered far less percentages (32% kept/compromised, 19% broken, 5% stalled, and 18% still in the works). I can bet you there probably hasn’t been a President in history that kept more promises. That is an excellent record to run on. I don’t know which campaign you were following, because he stated many times “I have this record, Mitt Romney does not.”

            Furthermore, to state that Mitt Romney, a guy who stated a different position on the same issue every time he spoke to a different audience, as “genuine”, is extremely laughable, to say the least. I bet Mitt is a nice guy in person outside of the political spectrum, but genuine he is not. He was a candidate who would say anything in order to get someone’s vote.

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:07 pm
          Bob says:
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          Captain Planet:

          Or speaking lies, 1995 congress republican, democrat republican.

          They really blocked progress with those surpluses right?

          There were hundreds of republican ideas put forth. None were adopted since 2008 or 2010. Which party is obstructing?

          Don’t go on about the tax cuts. Obama could have ended those his first two years. He didn’t. That was his endorsement of the Bush tax cuts.

  • November 7, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    Observer says:
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    Well, the voters have spoken. They want higher taxes, redistributed wealth, a gutted military, increased spending and more government beauracracy. All about fairness. It is better for all to be less well off rather than allow small businesses to grow.

    • November 7, 2012 at 1:07 pm
      ComradeAnon says:
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      • November 7, 2012 at 1:21 pm
        Agent says:
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        Wait until 60% of the population pays no federal taxes. Morons.

      • November 8, 2012 at 8:13 am
        ComradeAnon says:
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    • November 7, 2012 at 1:26 pm
      Can You Hear Me Screaming says:
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      Remember to flush twice, it’s a long way to Washington!

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:23 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Well, the voters have spoken and the result doesn’t fit the Fox News narrative so a bunch of you are pi$$ed off. Instead of being mad at The President, why aren’t you mad at those who lied to you like Romney, Rove, Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Dobbs…Take solace in the fact the economy is improving and will continue to. Fox News was wrong about the election so what makes you think they are right about the sky falling? Quit it with the Chicken Little routine Fox. It’s old, tired, and dishonest.

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:39 pm
        TAR says:
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        Well Captain you certainly know a lot about what Fox news supposedly said. nothing like stereotyping those of us who really can think for ourselves, live in the trenches and experience the wrath of Obama’s policies. Please tell the 4,200 miners who were let go in West Virginia and Southern Ohio back in Sept due to new Obama EPA Rules. Or Obama’s NLRB suing Boeing for wanting to build a plant in SC. It doesn’t take Fox News to educate people. We also don’t get our marching orders or talking points from the DNC, which you seem to be echoing pretty good. Glad you enjoy paying $3.70 gallon for gas and filling up heating oil tank will now cost an extra $270+ per fill up, groceries are higher. Yep it’s just echoing Fox News, that’s all you liberals got as a come back. Enjoy your gloating, you earned it!

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:54 pm
        CT Agent says:
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        OMG….are you for real????

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:55 pm
          CT Agent says:
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          my above comment was to Captain Planet, not TAR

      • November 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm
        Bob says:
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        Captain:

        Oh really? Romney lies? I’d be interested to hear them.

        You’ve not once listed specifics when you start out your comments.

        You just go on about Fox News, Hannity, and then you go on about “rob-me” and “corporate greed” and “trickle down”.

        Why don’t you formulate an equation for once.

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    wvagt says:
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    This election shows what an entitlement-driven society we’ve become. Who cares about the future, what can you give me now? Sad, very sad.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:07 pm
      perplexed says:
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      wvagt – you are right. there are more people with their hands out waiting for the government to feed them and their families than ever before. Plus the illegals really wanted him to win. What a SHAME!

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:24 pm
    Johnny Cockrun says:
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    We’ll never get rid of racism in America if we keep harping on statistics such as how the whites voted.

    • November 7, 2012 at 3:31 pm
      Always Amazed says:
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      Or the blacks or hispanics either.

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Mel says:
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    It’s not Forward it’s Backward.

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:35 pm
    Nan says:
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    • November 7, 2012 at 3:02 pm
      Perplexed says:
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      Nan, is that Nan, like in Nanny State?

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:35 pm
    Libby says:
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    Congrats Mr. President, indeed! I was starting to give up on the notion that my vote counted. So glad I didn’t.

    The problem with the Republicans is not that they nominated a moderate, but that they pushed him from centrist politics to extreme right-wing. This made him a flip-flopper and one that could not be trusted by either moderates or left-leaning folks.

    The Tea Party ruined any chance Romney had. If Republicans are smart they will distance themselves from the extremist, fanatical Tea Partiers and move more central. Only then will they maybe connect with minorities, women, and gays.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm
      Center Point says:
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      Amen. Libby. We all need to get back to center. Instead of 50% of the population being dissatisfied, how about we aim for 10% on either side of the aisle being discarded. Math would indicate that 80% would benefit.

      Just my two cents.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:16 pm
      Ct Agent says:
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      • November 7, 2012 at 2:35 pm
        Insurance Professional says:
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        WOW Ct agent. Mysogyny isn’t cool – disagree all you like but don’t degrade. Free speech is your right but offensive remarks aren’t necessary.

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:40 pm
          CT Agent says:
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          • November 7, 2012 at 5:34 pm
            Jon says:
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            Actually CT, What you did is clear example of a mysogynistic statement.

            Given your rampant animosity towards Libby, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:53 pm
        D says:
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        I hope you don’t have daughters, CT agent. If you do, I am sure they don’t like you and hopefully they are out of the house.

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:57 pm
          CT Agent says:
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    • November 7, 2012 at 4:07 pm
      UCT says:
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      As much as I’ve argued with you Libby, I agree with this statement and I am a registered Republican. Mitt’s party did nothing to help his cause. They forced him out on a ledge he wasn’t comfortable being on. He did look like a flip-flopper in many instances.

      If the Republicans are ever going to be back in charge, they will have to move towards the center. This isn’t the 80′s and the “old” Republican way will never again get the necessary number of votes.

      I think I am a pretty well documented (on this site) Republican. It doesn’t feel great agreeing with a Democrat, but this was well put.

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:43 pm
    Random says:
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    The results are the results. We must move on. However now, Obama has no more excuses. I am curious to see what he will do now that he is not restricted.

    I pray there isn’t a civil war.

    • November 7, 2012 at 1:46 pm
      Libby says:
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      • November 7, 2012 at 1:50 pm
        Random says:
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        Libby, what are you talking about? The popular vote margin for Obama was less than 3m (2.2%). This country is cut in half! And with the congressional structure essentially the same, I don’t expect progression. If this president really wants to do good, he will have to work with conservatives (and vise versa!).

        The next 4 years will be crucial to our position in the world. It will be interesting to see what happens.

        (However, I’m from CO and I am so glad 64 passed! The Feds need to follow suit)

        • November 7, 2012 at 1:53 pm
          Libby says:
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          Random: I agree with you. And indeed the election was very close. But the people are fed up with the wealthiest of Americans making decisions for the many. That’s what I meant. And I am from CO, too. :-)

          • November 7, 2012 at 1:57 pm
            ralph says:
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            ah, heck…i didn’t vote for the guy (AGAIN), but if you’re from CO, I’d still toke one up with you. might as well, at this point.

          • November 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm
            Upset says:
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            Libby People are not fed up with wealth, I know you are, but the wealthy aren’t making decisions for us. The large percentage of slobs that want a nanny state to take care of them is what’s wrong with this country. That percentage has grown and will continue to grow as long as someone feeds them and provides them with free health care (which we are all paying for). They are stupid enough to buy into Barack Obama’s socialist ways. They truly do want free phones, or for Barry to buy them a home. Don’t deny it because those kind of people are on videos and have been since 2008.

          • November 7, 2012 at 2:24 pm
            Rusty says:
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            So we will nhave the government making the decisions for us, is that it?

          • November 7, 2012 at 3:07 pm
            Random says:
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            I get what you are saying Libby. The welathiest definitely have more say (although that includes politicians). Glad to see a fellow Coloradian!

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:21 pm
          Insurance Professional says:
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          Random
          How do you rationalize ‘…curious to see what he will do now that he is not restricted’ with your subsequent observation ‘country cut in half – congressional structure essentially the same – don’t expect progression…’ You clearly realize the President is indeed VERY restricted by the GOP strategy of allowing no governance while a Dem sits in the White House. You ARE right about both parties needing to work across the aisle. Our elected representatives need to place THE PEOPLE first and their PARTY and individual/special interests after. We patriots of all persuasions would feel better represented, less dis-enfranchised, more willing to give a little to gain what’s best for all, engage in respectful dialogue, etc. etc. Can’t we all just get along for the greater good. It’s our country, we all love it, our President, Reps and Senate leaders have been chosen – now get to work and govern.

          • November 7, 2012 at 3:13 pm
            Random says:
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            Everyone knows that a president’s true colors come out during his second term. He is no longer worried about getting re-elected and is free to be true to his beliefs. You are right, congress can still block him (but only to a certain point – obamacare for example). It will be interesting to see what Obama “tries” to do over the next 4 years.

          • November 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm
            Sargent Major says:
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            Random,
            Obamacare was passed with a democratic congress, not the one we have now. I suspect unless there is movement with the president that nothing will get done and he is not one to negotiate.With him it is his way or the highway, Obamacare, for example

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:00 pm
            Another Country Heard from says:
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            Any chance of ever getting them to participate in the outcomes of their decisions?? I totally dislike the idea that people making decisions “on my behalf” or in “my best interests” are not fettered by the same system and limitations that they seem to think are great for me. How can they make decisions like this when they aren’t risking anything??

      • November 7, 2012 at 1:53 pm
        ralph says:
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        then why didn’t he get 99% of the vote?

        • November 7, 2012 at 1:54 pm
          Libby says:
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    • November 7, 2012 at 2:32 pm
      TAR says:
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      Random, it’s all Bush’s fault, it will always be Bush’s fault. Obama has never taken responsibility for his failures, even when there is a record of failure!

    • November 9, 2012 at 10:31 am
      Always Amazed says:
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      He’ll just keep on blaming Bush.

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:49 pm
    Ct Agent says:
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    I am weeping at the loss of my beautiful country to the hands of the socialist agenda. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

    • November 7, 2012 at 1:55 pm
      Libby says:
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      Wipe your eyes, crybaby. Things are about to look up for America.

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:11 pm
        Always Amazed says:
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        Gosh Libby I hope you’re right. If Obama fails we ALL fail and his last 4 years didn’t amount to too much. He did’t have anything to run on expect for the auto industry, which by the way is doing great in CHINA where are ligt bulbs are currenty being made as well. If in 4 years Obama couldn’t turn the economy around, which he promissed he would, what in the blazes makes you think that 4 more years of the same old stuff he’s been spewing out at us is going to make our country better this time aroud. I’ll bet you a tall cold one that by the end of this term we’ll have a 20 year deficit but I won’t say – I told you so. I won’t have too.

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:40 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          I meant 20 trillion deficit – but I think you all knew that already.

          • November 7, 2012 at 2:44 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            Always Amazed-$20 Trillion deficit is my prediction as well…only it won’t take the full 4 years to get there.

          • November 7, 2012 at 4:14 pm
            TxLady says:
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            I am afraid that a deficit of $20 trillion is somewhat optimistic, given current spending and entitlement, I’d figure at least 22. We are in for a very rough 4 more years.

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:12 pm
        Ct Agent says:
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    • November 7, 2012 at 2:14 pm
      Center Point says:
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      Speaking of ashamed…why did you bad language in a later post?

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:15 pm
        Center Point says:
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        CT Agent: Speaking of ashamed, why did you use bad language in a later post?

        • November 7, 2012 at 2:18 pm
          Ct Agent says:
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          • November 7, 2012 at 2:27 pm
            Center Point says:
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            CT Agent – you didn’t offend me – but when you tell someone that they ought to be ashamed, you need to first look at your own actions.

          • November 7, 2012 at 2:44 pm
            CT Agent says:
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          • November 7, 2012 at 2:54 pm
            Center Point says:
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            CT Agent: Okay, but don’t hit the wall on the way back to your room…

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:27 pm
          Bob says:
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          Center:

          Are you for censoring books?

          Censoring expression?

          Censoring Gay rights and their relationships, or how they act?

          Then why do you support self censorship about ones emotions?

          Clearly CT is upset. As is Libby. If either of them self censored I would think less of them.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:14 am
            Jon says:
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            Perhaps because there is a correct way to express emotional feelings in a public setting?

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:16 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob has no emotions. Only facts and figures. Oh! And rage.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:06 pm
            Another Country Heard from says:
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            Self censorship it the responsibilty of every member of a “civilized” society, especially when one of our basic freedoms is free speech. With that free speech should come the responsibility to respect the humanity of the person you are speaking to. Unfortunately, we have collectively moved beyond that level and now seemingly interact on the Internet as barbarians. I wonder what would happen if you were in the same room with a group of peer professionals. Would the conversations deteriorate to the same degree?? Just thinking out loud.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:24 pm
            Bob says:
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            Yes. All of the below comments make perfect sense.

            Jon: People believing that there is a correct way of expressing feelings believes in the supression of feelings.

            I covered this in my first response, but it flew over your head.

            I would love to hear Libby say fuck you to my face, if that’s how she felt. I would feel terrible if she was thinking it, and instead said “Fudge you”.

            Tell me what you’re thinking. Not what you think it’s acceptable to think is my motto.

            And sometimes, people get mad. I think if anything we need to see more people display this, so we would know a few things:

            A: How people felt.
            B: That expressing this is normal. Normal doesn’t mean ok.
            C: People would know better how to deal with these emotions. When you never express them, you don’t know how to manage them or deal with them when you see them. It’s exactly similar to why those who surpress gays and avoid gays are clueless to gays and how to deal with them.

          • November 12, 2012 at 3:34 pm
            Brokie says:
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            Bob – that reads a bit like bad, wrong Haiku….

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:26 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Don’t believe the Fox News hype! There is nothing socialist about President Obama’s agenda. Corporate profit grew more under him last year than any time under Bush.

      • November 7, 2012 at 3:07 pm
        Perplexed says:
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        Captain, you need to retake history. World History. Your comments are so STUPID. How old are you anyway, 15? Educated in the public school system????

      • November 7, 2012 at 3:10 pm
        D says:
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        Fox also called the election for Obama about 10-15 minutes before CNN did.

        • November 7, 2012 at 3:27 pm
          Captain Planet says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Yep, it’s tough to argue the truth when everyone is watching it happen in real time. Fox also talked about a potential recount later and if Ohio was wrong, how Romney could still run the table – I watched Fox last night.

      • November 7, 2012 at 3:26 pm
        TAR says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Capt you keep making these ridiculous claims and as a good liberal justify it by linking in Fox News. Maybe if you got your head out of Ed Schultz a$$ you could see daylight. Why did corporate profits grow? Because unlike Obama and the federal government, Corporations in order to keep their doors open and remain viable and competitive sought was to cut spending. They closed stores, sold off leases, paired down their work force (that means laid people off) offered early retirement. They are doing more with less. Many corps have gone back to the basics. Unlike Obama Admin increasing federal payrolls by over 11%, as the Private Sector workforce decreased over 3%. Those who run corporations are also smart people and anticipate the future and what they see is not good – the increased cost of healthcare under Obamacare has caused companies to re-evaluate their positions in healthcare and evaluate the financial impact of government run insurance. Just take a look at what Darden Rest. announced back in September. In addition, those “corporate profits” corporations are sitting on that cash as well, due to the uncertainty of Obamacare and the economy. Please spare us the diatribe about Fox News, there are other news mediums to look to for facts.

  • November 7, 2012 at 1:49 pm
    Agent says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    I’m sure this isn’t new to any of you but it’s like having a crystal ball:

    “From bondage to spiritual faith;
    From spiritual faith to great courage;
    From courage to liberty;
    From liberty to abundance;
    From abundance to complacency;
    From complacency to apathy;
    From apathy to dependence;
    From dependence back into bondage.”

    Where do you suppose we are at this point?

    • November 7, 2012 at 1:52 pm
      Rod Blajevic says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      I’m not sure about the rest of the country, but last night I got into some heavy bondage with one of Spitzer’s friends……oh, not that kind of bondage?

    • November 7, 2012 at 5:03 pm
      D says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 19
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      More GOP hyperbole and scare tactics and little factual information.

      • November 7, 2012 at 5:34 pm
        Bob says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 16
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        D:

        If you’re going to label republicans, you’re going to see me use facts so fast your head will spin.

        I have seldom seen relevant facts in a debate with a democrat, or correct methodology.

        Republicans didn’t use scare tactics nearly to the degree Obama did this election as a side comment, or hyperbole “failed policies”.

        Ya know, those horrible deficit encouraging bush tax cuts, the ones that projected 800 billion of decicits? Take a guess which side of the tax cuts does the most. Here’s a hint: The ones Obama wants to expire only raise 80 billion of revenue. If “failed tax policies” isn’t “hyperbole” considering that, I don’t know what is.

        According to Obama 80 billion of 720 billion in tax cuts are important D. Not the 720. And he’s making sure the job creators lose that 80 billion, while implying it will offset the deficit.

        Hyperbole “failed policies” little factual information “end tax cuts for the wealthy to help deficits” (80 billion won’t dent the deficit, and could lead to less revenues).

        Yeah, wonderful thinking.

    • November 12, 2012 at 4:01 pm
      Dave says:
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      We’re around “from apathy to dependence” right now. An electorate which demands free birth control proves my point.

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    Center Point says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Dear Republicans:

    The GOP has lost seats in the Senate and the House. The Party of No has just hit a brick wall. You can either change direction or just keep hitting the wall.

    Take a few days to vent and get your ya-ya’s out.

    Then, let’s come to the table and begin discussions about working for the common good of the country, not for the singular selfish interest of either party.

    We need to get back to center. Really, we do.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:21 pm
      Always Amazed says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      CP, you might just be singing a differnt song 4 years from now. “Let’s come to the table” – excuse me but where was this so called table when ObamaCare got passed? No where. And that is exactly how this administration works. Behind closed doors. We do need to get back to center because it’s the American people who are saddled with everything that goes on in Washington. The govenrment official aren’t going to be on ObamaCare. We are. Which is most disturbing to me. If we have to be on it, then they should have to be on it as well.

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:59 pm
        D says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Health exchanges, and the single payer concept are repbulican ideas
        genius. The system used a model of a concept put in place by a REPUBLICAN Govenor. You don’t like to pay attention to fact, do you?

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:14 pm
          Bob says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          D:

          Excuse me? Just because republicans at one point or another mentioned single payor or a mandate does not mean they ever supported it widespread.

          You sir are full of it. They would have passed it widespread if that were the case, as democrats would have supported it as well.

          You’re talking *one* republican who managed to put it in place in his *state*. *state* and *federal* are not the same. One forces your way on 50 states, one is one state. Romney was ok with seeing how it did in one state, so we could see if it was the way to go. You test state first, not federal first.

          And we can see what it did to Romney’s state. It was by no means a good solution.

          You can make up your own reality, but really, it’s not any bit close to weighed accurately.

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:26 pm
          Bob says:
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          D:

          And further: Putting in health exchanges does not make a bill bi partisan.

          That’s just….Ludicrous.

      • November 7, 2012 at 4:09 pm
        Center Point says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        AA — yes, could be amazed in 4 years — but the Party of No really got their name when they refused to even sit at the Obamacare table to work on a common solution.

        And I agree that Washington itself isn’t going on Obamacare – and that they have entitlements in healthcare and pensions that the rest of us schmutezes can only dream of. That also has to change. The constitutents should demand that they change it. But since the Tea Party types were previously empowered to scoff at any compromise, this was not going to change.

        But — that was before the damage to the GOP from the extreme Tea Party members.

        As Milt McConnell stated 4 years ago, the GOP’s number one job was to oust Obama. That was unacceptable as the GOP’s number one job was to work with the Democrats for the people.

        Yes, a bit Pollyanna-ish — but true nevertheless. And now not only did you not regain the White House, but you lost significant seats in the Senate and in the House.

        We need to meet in the center. We really do.

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm
          FFA says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          And why dont congress have to go on OBama Care? Meet in the center? It over, but yet we continue to fight hard for our side and you fignt hard for your side. Do you really see any common ground? Any hope for common ground?

      • November 9, 2012 at 9:02 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        167 Republican amendments to the bill. That, and it was debated for over a year. The most debated bill in history, I do believe. So, there certainly was a table and both parties did have a say. But, that’s not what the Right Wing Noise Machine says, so you won’t believe it.

        • November 12, 2012 at 11:50 am
          Bob says:
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          Planet:

          That was a swing and a miss. You’re looking for what you want to see. And I simply love using your own “unbiased” sources against you.

          http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/Obama-says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/

          • November 12, 2012 at 11:58 am
            Libby says:
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            The article called the statement “barely right.” Barely right is still right, Bob.

          • November 12, 2012 at 12:15 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby – they called it “mostly false”. That is not barely right. When a liberal site can’t twist it, and the best they can do is mostly false, it actually means completely false

            As I have said in the past, none of the actual republican ideas went in that bill. Republicans went with what they could, which were bipartisan points to begin with, but Obama did not. He forced republicans to only add democrat ideals.

          • November 12, 2012 at 12:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            The last sentence “Yes, Congress adopted dozens of the amendments proposed by Republicans, but we couldn’t find any that dramatically altered the plan. Still, to the extent there were at least some, we give Obama’s statement a Barely True.”

            The ideals I think you mean would not have helped the bill’s success as a previous IJ article pointed out. No individual mandate means adverse selection while allowing pre-existing conditions and the under-26 crowd. The bill could not be funded without including cuts to Medicare. What other Republican ideals were called for but not included?

          • November 12, 2012 at 12:41 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            At the top for the rating they call it mostly false.

            The additions from the republicans were not republican ideals. Even the politifact site said so.

            I have said nothing about the mandate. I’ve talked about the investment ratios and the efficiency. I have said in the past that I would even be for a 401k mandate.

            Keep track of our convos.

          • November 12, 2012 at 1:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            I only asked which Republican ideals were not adopted, besides no individual mandate and medicare cuts. No need to be snippy with the last comment.

        • November 12, 2012 at 11:53 am
          Bob says:
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          Planet – BUT – Thanks for trying out!

          ;-)

          I think I have finally proven your credibility. At one point you said my facts were lies or right wing hogwash. Even your liberal sources disprove what you just said, so you mind taking back that insult against the right wing?

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:46 pm
      TAR says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Center you’re spewing the Democratic talking points – Party of No. Please tell us what were the No’s? No to Obama revoking 86 oil permits and licenses? No to answers about Fast & Furious? No to answers about what Obama knew about Benghazi when he received the IM – Ambassador in Peril? No to rising gas prices as he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia? No to telling President of Russia he will have more flexibility after the election? No to committing ground troops to Libya? No to two incompetent budgets submitted by Obama to the U.S. Senate – resoundly defeated 97 to 0 and 95 to 0?
      No to Romney being a felon about avoiding paying taxes?
      The only selfish players are the those occupying the White House. A president in one of the toughest economic times spending $1.3 billion of taxpayer money on personal travel! David Axelrod being compensated heavily with FirstSolar that cost taxpayers $1.3 billion. Now that’s selfish!

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:57 pm
        Captain Planet says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        What part of Fox News lies to you, do you not understand? Don’t you have any realization today that the conservative media world you have bought into is being dishonest to you? They told you Romney had it in the bag. Rove said you were going to pick up 10 seats in the Senate. You keep buying all of this fertilizer and you’re going to start sprouting some tall tales, yourself.

        • November 7, 2012 at 3:02 pm
          TAR says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Guess I’m one of the few who doesn’t live their lives around Fox News. When you see a country in decline, sky rocketing fuel costs, increasing grocery prices as a result of skyrocketing fuel costs, lying about Benghazi and Fast & Furious, a president who could not run on his record (finally a record to run on – except he ran from it)one would think the chimpanzees who follow Obama would open there eyes how they are being duped, lied to and mislead. No it didn’t take watching Fox News to draw conclusions how bad Obama is for America and the disdain he has for the U.S. Constitution. Just watch what he’s done the past four years, that does give an indication what he will do the next four years. Hope he uses vaseline this time around!

          • November 7, 2012 at 7:25 pm
            Libby says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • November 8, 2012 at 8:55 am
            TAR says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Why is everything with disagree with a “racist” comment. There was nothing racist about it. Get over your political correct and multi-cultural mentality and take it like a man or woman!

          • November 8, 2012 at 9:00 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Please don’t try to hide behind your subtlety. It fools no-one.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:11 am
            TAR says:
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            Libby you funny! But you are the typical left winger who tries to scare people by accusing them of being a “racist”. That’s the new mantra these days. The radical left tries to invoke racism charges thinking it will cause the accused to wilt. Sorry I’m not buying your extreme thinking, nor am I going to apologize for it. But nice try!

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:13 am
            Libby says:
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            Everybody funny. Now you funny, too.

            George Thoroughgood

            :-)

          • November 12, 2012 at 12:06 pm
            Gas Prices says:
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            The President does not control the gas prices! That’s basic knowledge!

    • November 7, 2012 at 4:25 pm
      Sargent Major says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Huh, last I saw the GOP was relected and still controls congress. Also, the Senate still has 45 GOP Senators and 4 independents which means the Democrats don’t have the numbers to stop a fillibuster. That means they had better learn to compromise.

    • November 7, 2012 at 5:38 pm
      Bob says:
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      Center:

      Dear democrats: During the 2008 election you called us the culprit of the collapse.

      “change” was your motto.

      Getting the government more control isn’t change.

      Allowing more cronyism isn’t going forward. This is what you claim happened due to us in 2001.

      While you won, this doesn’t mean we are hitting a brick wall, it is in fact you.

      You must agree to make changes that won’t hit us right back into this mess, which we did in the 30′s, the 70′s, the 80′s, and 2008.

      When you are ready to stop blaming us we have plenty of ideas.

      Take a few years to get your ya-ya’s out. Then come back to our good ideas, when you are no longer trying to blame policies which were not at fault, and change policies which are good for the nation, just to have a voting point.

      Thank you!

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:08 pm
    FFA says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Its all over but the crying. Watch the economy tank when employers start kicking their full time work force to the curb. Why should I continue to pay for heath insurance when I can just pick it up when I get sick?

    Time for me to stick my hand out too.

    • November 7, 2012 at 4:14 pm
      Agent 1 says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      FFA, We will have a brief period of joyous celebration by the left for re-electing the saviour and then reality will set in with sequestration, massive layoffs, higher taxes for everyone and we can probably throw in a big international problem like Iran-Israel and we will be good to go. I think the Mayan Calendar is getting to look pretty accurate to predict life as we know it will end on 12-21-12. The good news in all this is that the President will not need to put many new miles on AF1 since the campaigning & fundraising is not needed now. How about sticking to the office and actually working on the problems and figuring out how to work with Congress to mitigate the vexing problems facing the country?

      • November 8, 2012 at 8:35 am
        Libby says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • November 8, 2012 at 11:23 am
        FFA says:
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        Agent, I’m on your neck of the woods on a company trip. In AZ. Hard to believe how many Cowboy Fans are around here. Nice weather. Nice Atmosphere. Time to rethink Central WI.

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    mightyquinn says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Zero is lazy. He “worked” for 2 years and then campaigned for 2 years. Egotistical and irresponsible. Everything is someone else’s fault. He lectures. He doesn’t compromise. He’s used to demanding and then striking if he doesn’t get his way. He’s a perfect president for Gen X. Naive to the core relying on soundbites for press. Well, here’s the upshot. Money doesn’t come off the shelf from large corps. It stays in cash for later use and dividends. Small business discontinues all health programs. Employment doesn’t improve. The number of people on the dole increases. Tax income doesn’t rise. The congressional roadblock continues because the GOP, we who aren’t on the dole and who pay the taxes, cannot afford to accede to Zero’s demands for more profligate government spending. The propellerheads take over. We pay. The good news is that if Zero uses executive orders to promote his socialist agenda, then he should totally ruin the Dem party and 2016 is doable.

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    Mel says:
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    Country is going backwards which is the truth. Decrease in deficit, balanced budgets, reduces taxes, health care law repealed and transparency will be given the Forward. I refused to accept anything done right now unless these items actually happen, no more talk, action. The problem going on is ignorance, sorry it’s the truth.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:31 pm
      youngin' says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      It only seems like you’re going backwards if you stand in one place while the rest of us move forward. It’s like a stone in an river.

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    youngin' says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    I am still waiting for a viable alternative to the Democratic party. Unfortunately it seems the Republican party is doomed to future continued marginalization, if these are the “lessons” they are taking away from this election. So thick-headed.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:46 pm
      CT Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      You’re so brainwashed.

      • November 7, 2012 at 2:54 pm
        youngin' says:
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        Beg pardon?

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    D says:
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    As someone who voted for Reagan and Bush Sr. in the old days, I want no part of the GOP as they are now. Look at the group they fielded for the nomination. They had a smart, experienced, thoughful, knowlegeable (especially on China) candidate in John Huntsman. But, he was invisible. Why? Because he was not willing to sink to the lowest level as Bachman, Perry, Gingrich, Santorum, and Cain, who were willing to say outrageous unresearched, and uninformed statements that gained nothing but some temporary attention. Each one of them held the lead for a short time. But, not Huntsman. He did not seek the lowest common denominator. Therefore, no attention even though he is clearly superior than the rest. In Romny’s case he was a moderate forcing himself hard-right only to come back to the center in the general election. His changes in position on important issues was laughable. One comment I will never forget is when Santorum said “John McCain doesn’t understand torture” in trying to paint himself tough on terrorism? McCain doesn’t support toture for good reason. Herman Cain and the 999 plan. Really? You can’t make that stuff up. The GOP constantly gets themselves all tied up with the moral issued like abortion and gay marriage and roll out the same tired message on taxes, spending, and deficit even though G. Bush Jr. never vetoed a single spending bill in his 8 years as President. Even though he let the Clinton taxes on higher income earners expire, the economy still tanked. Try something new, GOP. Understand that the majority of the USA is basically a slightly right of center country. If you don’t believe me, check out the loss of one-term congressman and Tea Party darling Allen West in FL and Joe Walsh in IL. Bachman barely held onto to her seat. Try something new GOP. You are a joke!

    • November 8, 2012 at 8:35 am
      youngin' says:
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      Great post, D, too bad it got lost in the shuffle of BHO hysterics. I also liked Huntsman a lot. As a younger voter, the GOP I have witnessed over my entire adult life has been a disgrace, and it’s been very difficult to find a political home as I also consider myself center right.

      Perhaps the most frustrating part is how the GOP political machine takes good candidates and ruins them. I liked McCain and was neutral to Romney prior to each of them running for office. For some reason, the GOP nominating process requires them to compete for who can spew the most filth. The fundamentals of this election show that this is starting to become a net losing strategy as it turns away several growing demographics.

    • November 8, 2012 at 8:42 am
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      The Republican party of yesteryear is gone. In it’s place we have a bunch of tired, old men foaming at the mouth about women’s issues, gay issues, and morality. Things that are better left outside of politics. This country was founded on the principle of separation of church and state. The current right-wing is trying to legislate morality while it thumbs its nose at the founding fathers. Move center or die on the vine, people.

      • November 8, 2012 at 10:55 am
        Bob says:
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        Libby: foaming old men? Wrong on all accounts, I have already explained gay issues. Get it through your head you are stereo typing.

        • November 8, 2012 at 10:57 am
          Libby says:
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          Yeah, foaming, Bob. I got the idea from you. You foam at the mouth constantly with your rants against me on this blog.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:52 am
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Yeah, because normal people call people “cheetoh puffs” when they make a comment to their comment.

            That’s not foaming at all.

            Nor do you foam at the mouth to me right?

            Get over yourself. You talk about yourself completely in a way that is flawless while damning others.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:58 am
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            It was Cheez Puff, dude. No foaming. I’m calm, cool, and collected. (3 other “C” words for me.)

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:27 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            That was an added insult that didn’t need to be added, it was snarky behavior. I am by no means stating that I don’t do that when I am frustrated as well. But I would expect for it not to be accepted. It’s your job not to accept my out bursts of crap when I go off, and it’s my job to do the same for you.

            I do appreciate your remembering my OCD. I found at least that much to be an enjoyable addition to that comment.

    • November 9, 2012 at 9:08 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      D, you have it together. The way the current GOP operates is detrimental to the existence of the party. If they keep their current path, it’s a road for disaster. And, we need at least 2 voices in this country. I’d like a third legitimate one, as well.

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:45 pm
    Eliza says:
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    “…you naughty kittens!
    Then you shall have no pie.
    Mee-ow, mee-ow, mee-ow.
    No, you shall have no pie.”

    Onward.

  • November 7, 2012 at 2:56 pm
    Taxpayer says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • November 7, 2012 at 2:58 pm
      CT Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Hitler had Germany fooled too, you fool.

      • November 7, 2012 at 3:02 pm
        D says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        When you are actually going to come up with well reasoned and factual arguments? You have placed a number of snarky, nasty, and insulting comments Mr. CT agent. You must be quite miserable to be around. I pitty your co-workers.

        • November 7, 2012 at 3:33 pm
          mightyquinn says:
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          Are you old enough to know who Hitler was or are you one of those naive 20 somethings who have never had to experience anything other than the fruits of freedom……..and who never had the guts to fight to defend it?

          • November 12, 2012 at 3:44 pm
            Brokie says:
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            You mean like Myth RobMe’s five sons, none of whom wore the uniform. Like father like son. Pedaling a bike. In France. During Vietnam…in an attempt to convert…perfectly content-with-their-religion French Catholics. What?

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:14 pm
          FFA says:
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          I pitty whats left of my work force.

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:41 pm
          Bob says:
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          D:

          CT Agent is not a Mr.

          And I remember how you guys reacted to Bush. I recommend you quit with theh high and mighty routine, and let her burn it off.

          Unless you are a judgemental democrat who is claiming he has never flamed up against Bush.

          At which point I’ll call you a liar.

      • November 7, 2012 at 6:52 pm
        nomesaneman says:
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        Aha! Godwin’s Law!

        • November 8, 2012 at 12:04 pm
          Jon says:
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          Pity so few hear will actually understand your comment.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:10 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not too many educated folks out there these days…

          • November 9, 2012 at 9:11 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            I got it. If you stick around the IJ world, you’ll run into this law quite a bit. I shake my head.

          • November 9, 2012 at 11:53 am
            FFA says:
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            My last full timer hit the unemoloyment line for good yesterday.
            Told him to take a paycut. He elected for Unemployment instead. NOw – Me + 1 25 hour a weeker. I will never hire a Full time position again. I will stick with college kids that dont collect unemployment when they leave.

          • November 9, 2012 at 11:54 am
            FFA says:
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            Libby, that is true. Just look at the results of the election. Most of america is uneducated.

    • November 7, 2012 at 3:02 pm
      mightyquinn says:
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      This has got to be a joke, right? You cannot be serious.

    • November 7, 2012 at 3:11 pm
      Taxpayer says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      I love my Country & President. This does not make me a fool and or a joke. It makes me sad that I would be asked if my statment is a joke or told I’m a fool for making this statement. I am proud of President Obama and proud to be an American and I stand by my Country as a PROUD AMERICAN!

      • November 7, 2012 at 3:30 pm
        mightyquinn says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Actually it does make you a fool because you stand behind [luckily not in front of] a man who along with his wife lost their law licenses in 1994 and who has ordered his college records sealed. The man is a cypher…..an empty suit. Notice how he can’t speak intelligently, if at all, after his teleprompter fails? Notice how he needed ear buds and coaching during the second and third debates? You support a person with ethics and integrity problems. That is foolish.

      • November 7, 2012 at 3:50 pm
        Taxpayer says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        It is a sad day in America when your called a “fool” from your country men for saying you love your Country. But I proudly say it over and over. I LOVE AMERICA! Call me a fool if you will. I LOVE AMERICA!

        • November 7, 2012 at 4:20 pm
          mightyquinn says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          If you love your country you get informed and make intelligent decisions. Its obvious that you did neither. Being called a fool is not as bad as being one.

          • November 8, 2012 at 3:19 pm
            Taxpayer says:
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            Glad you understand your category. If I valued your opinion I’d start a war of words with you but since I don’t value you, your opinion or your kind of hate for my country, I say go get another. I love the USA.

    • November 7, 2012 at 3:22 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Temper-tantrum much? “Eternity” – really? Give me a break.

      All I have to say is, happy days, oh happy days! Obama blew him to sMITTherines. Do we have Florida now, too?

      Never has Fox News been so much fun to watch. Pure entertainment last night. I wish I would have DVR’d it. Donald Trump is just simply a joke. A skidmark, really. Actually, he’s a piece of the matter that makes the skidmark. And, I don’t like calling others names, typically. He went over the line last night. Irresponsible and may just cause someone to act out.

      • November 7, 2012 at 4:39 pm
        Always Amazed says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Acutally he won by a narrow margin. Which seems to me shows what more Americans are finally coming to their senses and realized that Obama never had the experience needed to be President in the first place. Sadly, not enough of them turned around and Obama did get another term. God help us if it turns out like the firs one ran. We’ll be sitting ducks for terrorists same as with BENGHAZI!

  • November 7, 2012 at 3:01 pm
    Cher says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Captain Planet and Libby–either you are successful agency owners that have enough money stashed away that you won’t have to worry about the upcoming financial collapse, or you are counting on the government to give you a pay increase via the “equal distribution of wealth”. I’m guessing that since you have so much time for so many multiple posts that you are not in the first category….

    • November 7, 2012 at 3:34 pm
      mightyquinn says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Envy never won any battles…….and you are neon green.

  • November 7, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    Scott Romoser says:
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    I for one am not willing to settle for constant malaise.

  • November 7, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    West Coast Boy says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Get real, he won due to Latinos, Blacks, gays, and young women who want the gov’t to take care of them. The dems sold them a line of BS this group of voters were dumb enough to swallow…

    • November 7, 2012 at 4:21 pm
      Perplexed says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      So tru, West Coast Boy!

    • November 7, 2012 at 4:46 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Yes, we need to go back to the days when only old, white, straight, penisful people could vote in this country.

      • November 7, 2012 at 5:44 pm
        Bob says:
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        Before the republicans gave women the right to vote, right Captain?

        There you go again making implications of where republicans are going with voting, old white straight people right?

        How are you any different than an extreme right wing voter when you label like that? That’s pure bull comment above.

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:33 pm
          mightyquinn says:
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          Its our fault. Since women got the right to vote men have turned into whipped little puppies who now have to feel, cry and do other things that make us bitchy little girls. We’re the ones with testosterone and its high time that we begin being men again instead of sensitive sniveling pansies. Call a spade a spade and stop apologizing for growing a pair.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:58 pm
            Bob says:
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            What in the world is this comment?

            A republican who became a republican for the right reasons would never say what you just said.

            I don’t know if you’re trying to be sarcastic following my comment or if you’re serious.

            If you were sarcastic, I was by no means stating that we were fine until women got the right to vote. I was stating that old white men dominated the voting system until republicans gave women *the freedom they deserved* to vote.

            Men’s mistake is too much testoterone. If it wasn’t for them arguing so hardcore, women wouldn’t think lowly of republicans (this isn’t the only reason mind you). A lot needs to change. And the main one is that men need to know how to get across to women that republicans aren’t pigs trying to dominate women…

  • November 7, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    Stephen Tallinghasternathy says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • November 7, 2012 at 3:58 pm
      TAR says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Stephen, just wondering how the GOP is treating women and Hispanics? It makes for great sound bites though. Gov. of New Mexico hispanic woman GOP. Gov of Arizona a woman. Two women ran in California in 2010 – one for Senate one for Gov. both ran Fortune 500 Companies. Two women GOP Senators from Maine, Hispanic Senator from FL, Gov of Puerto Rico Hispanic GOP, Sen. elect Cruz from Texas, just to name a few. So wondering where the talking points are coming from. Does make for good division though.

      • November 7, 2012 at 4:08 pm
        Stephen Tallinghasternathy says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • November 7, 2012 at 4:20 pm
          TAR says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Actually I’m not ignoring the issues. It’s very easy to blame Akin and Murdoch for the loss, but that wasn’t the overriding factor. It may have contributed in their respective states and rightly so, Akins comments to this day are unbelievable and give a black eye to the GOP. But as long as the media continues to repeat the DNC talking points about the GOP, contraceptives and birth control misinforming the public there will always be the perception the GOP has a disconnect with women and hispanics. Somehow enforcing illegal immigration laws on the books is a slap against hispanics? Yet over 300,000 immigrants get sworn in as U.S. Citizens per yr and do it legally. Those 300,000 were legals. The drain on our financial system is something we no longer can afford. Taxpayers are taxed to the brink now. All these free social programs come at our expense and there is no sense of urgency to curtail it, let’s just keep spending. If you do speak of cuts, you’re now attacking those classes? As for women’s issue, Obama Machine did a great job in manipulating the women’s issue especially regarding Planned Parenthood. Obama successfully took the subject away from the economy being the issue. Planned Parenthood has a $1.3 Billion budget, U.S. Government gives $435 million of taxpayer money to Planned Parenthood. Why is a Non-Profit then spending over $12 million on campaign donations? This has all gotten out of hand and there is no end in sight to rein in the spending. Spending money we don’t have.

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:48 pm
          Bob says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Stephen,

          You seem to be making the argument that because women voted for democrats, that democrats support women.

          An interesting theory but I assure you, innaccurate.

          Blacks are conservative. Are you aware of that? They got angry when Obama mentioned being pro gay. Are you aware that black churches told their people not to vote election day?

          Are you aware that blacks are anti abortion? Are you aware that they believe they are being killed off in Chicago?

          No matter what republicans do, no matter how much they share black beliefs, they will never win the black vote.

          This doesn’t mean that republicans have to change until they meet the image. It means they have to go for what is right.

          It’s called a back bone…Maybe you’ve heard of it?

          • November 8, 2012 at 9:32 am
            Arithmetic says:
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            Are you aware that not all black people think the same? That they have just as diverse opinions as white people?

          • November 8, 2012 at 10:58 am
            Bob says:
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            Arithmetic: I am. Don’t talk in cliches. These guys are talking about winning over the black vote. Are Chicago blacks all the blacks arithmetic? Don’t come at me for stereotyping. Are you further aware that the plurality of blacks are conservatives? You are talking semantics on my wording to label me a fool. Don’t make me slap you with 50 links about blacks.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:08 am
            Libby says:
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            I see you continue to make friends and influence people on this site, Bob. Way to go.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:16 am
            Arithmetic says:
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            So all of the black people in chicago think the same?

            I’m not labeling you a fool, I’m labeling you as someone who stereotypes people based on race. And the fact that you keep referring to black people as “blacks” and “they” as if they’re all of one mind kind of reinforces that.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:12 pm
            Bob says:
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            Arithmatic:

            You’re very bad at math if you’re making that argument.

            We are talking voter demographics, not race. Maybe that goes over your head.

            The plurality of blacks in Chicago think that way, this is a number, a stastic, not a color. Maybe you took a calculator as a kid and tried to use it as a crayon?

            Your concepts are ludicrous. Get your head on straight.

            When the plurality of black voters are conservative (not politically, we are talking socially) and the plurality are also conservative on politcial issues (against abortion, and want planned parenthood ended because they think planned parenthood is killing them off) and they vote for democrats who are the opposite of those, we see a problem in demographics.

            The person I was debating with said that republicans needed to come to the left to win over black voters. His comment wasn’t racist was it? Was he labeling black voters democrat? *Gasp!*.

            I simply showed him how if they went left, they would be going further from the black voter’s ideas.

            Republicans will never win black voters until they reshape how republican is viewed.

            This is nothing to do with stereotyping.

            Insult me with that type of uneducated crap again and I will retaliate.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:27 pm
            TAR says:
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            Bob, this seems like a common theme with the left. They cannot read and rationalize a coherent thought process without reading bigotry, racism and stereo typing into it. This is a real problem today. The Freedom of Expression has been hijacked on the left if you don’t think a certain way you’re a racist, extremist, tea bagger, bigot or now you’re stereotyping. I’m afraid it’s not going to get any better the next four years.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:30 pm
            Libby says:
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            TAR, you are completely right. Bigotry and racism IS a real big problem today.

            But the first amendment gives you the freedom to be one. It also gives me the right to call you on it.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:33 pm
            Bob says:
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            Tar:

            I do think it’s a problem, I have no idea how to fix it.

            Everytime I talk about how moving left won’t win over the plurality of conservative voters, this becomes a blow up issue. It’s not the first time.

            Democrats seek to find out black voter ideals, that’s just demographics. Republicans look up actual numbers, and they are racist.

            It’s absurd. If 60% of blacks don’t want planned parenthood, and want it done away with, then changing to fund planned parent hood more as republicans won’t win over those 60% of blacks. That’s why I asked in which particular area did he think republicans needed to change? That’s a random number mind you. That’s not the actual.

            Apparently that is a “black” stastic though…

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:34 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            That convo wasn’t about his beliefs regarding racism.

            Labeling him isn’t ok. I don’t know if you were trying to call me on being a racist, but the string of comments were actually about my comments and whether or not I was racist.

            Why would you reply by accusing him of being a racist? Just go ahead and accuse me.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I will compare your comments about blacks and their views to your comments about how I view Republicans. You take some extreme publication calling Planned Parenthood as black genocide and decide that all blacks feel that way.

            The reason leftists view Republicans so negatively is because those that have been chosen to represent their party to the public are extremist, outrageous, and completely out of touch with how most people feel about current issues.

            These people put the “face” on conservatism (Akins, Murdoch, Palin, Bachman, and on and on and on.) If you want to change the reputation of Republicans, try getting some out front that truly express your beliefs instead of these nut jobs.

            Just some constructive observations from yours truly.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:43 pm
            Libby says:
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            My reply to him was in response to him using the word “chimpanzees” to describe the people that voted for Obama. I do not think you are racist. I just have doubts about the credibility of the data you presented. See above…

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:12 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Thanks for the candor.

            I disagree that republicans think what you think they do on abortion. That’s the very reason I’m confused on why Blacks and Hispanics vote the way they do.

            The only actual abortion area republicans seek to change is partial birth. Hispanics and Blacks while they are ok with pro choice even though they are pro life, that is only for first trimester abortions which republicans have not fought on, not even during Bush’s tenure.

            We fight on the third trimester partial birth in cities like Chicago. I only emphasize planned parenthood because in Chicago, the blacks don’t want planned parenthood around. It is a very specfic area. This was not a major news agency. These were pollsters. There is a difference.

            What you don’t realize is I have looked into this. Blacks and hispanics need to know the republican position, and this election due to the negative campaign, they were not sure what it was and if it matched them. It did match them. Republicans don’t need to change it. Exceptions for rape and incest, no third trimester partial birth abortion. This matches to the letter black and hispanic beliefs. They are for abortion for others only first trimester.

            We’ll leave the disagreement at that.

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:34 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob:

            That may be your outlook on abortion, but Mr. Akin and Mr. Murdouck do not concur. And they are the ones out there representing.

            Abortion only in the case of “legitimate rape” and no abortion due to any rape because it was God’s intention for the woman to get pregnant. And besides that, a woman’s body has a way of shutting down and not reproducing in the case of rape, so she must just be “crying rape.”

            These are real people, real statements, and real beliefs. I did not make them up. They are out there and they are getting alot of press.

            You say Republicans don’t have to change. That’s fine with me because it just means more Democrats in office.

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:41 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            It was a democrat who first inserted the term “forcible rape”.

            Paul Ryan merely agreed and voted for it. No one intended for “forcible rape” to mean anything, neither democrat or republican.

            Murdock stated he believed the the child was god’s intention, not the rape. He did not state he was going to do away with the rape exception.

            You just listed 2 people out of 100 senators and over 400 congressmen. They are not the mainstream.

            The mainstream republican politician believes exactly what I just put.

            More democrats is fine with me. I’m ok with republicans getting better with conveying their ideals. I am ceratinly uncommon in my party when it comes to explaining these issues. A republican should be able to explain an issue without it going hay wire and to whether or not Libby is a black non working voter.

            Yes. I did just mock a type of republican. :)

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:45 pm
            Libby says:
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            I know I only listed 2 out of many, but my point is the same. These are the people getting the press and it’s hurting your party because it either turns people off or scares them. That’s all.

            It was just a constructive observation from the other side.

          • November 9, 2012 at 9:36 am
            TAR says:
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            Libby you still find easy to label people racists and bigots who disagree with you. I find your statements to be radical and extreme. The left wing socialist progressive movement is extreme and is diametrically opposed to the values our Founders intended for the United States. The transformation you voted for by supporting Obama is radical and extreme. Problem is Republicans will not call it that. They allow the ignorant like you, to get away with calling Repubs and Conservatives “extremists”. Well you’re radical thought process along with your sheeple (heaven forbid I refer to them as chimpanzees) are destroying the very fabric of America, whereby you and your ilk believe government should be your caretaker. As the taxpayer base continues to dwindle, more will be asked from the producers in this country. Those producers are not just the rich, they are the middle and upper middle class people now. Along the way in continuing the confiscation of income, Obama and the democratic party are not talking about cutting spending. But Obama’s sheeple (I won’t use chimpanzee since you think its racist) applaud the continued demonizing of the so-called “wealthy”. So as they Wealthy pay more of their “fair-share”, 70% of the taxes today, Obama will continue to demonize success in this country because them paying 70% of the taxes in this country is not enough. The top 10% of wage earners pay 69% of the tax burden. But Obama is creating more dependency on the federal government. Now that’s radical!

          • November 9, 2012 at 9:49 am
            Libby says:
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            TAR – if you read my posts carefully, you would see I am not labeling “Republicans” as extremists. My statement was the face of the GOP – you know, the ones that are in the public eye – are not presenting a balanced view of your party and are not helping your cause.

            Instead, you commence a tirade against me calling me radical, a sheep, and ignorant. Name calling and insults. I find that a theme from the people that disagree with me on this blog.

          • November 9, 2012 at 10:16 am
            TAR says:
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            Libby, every chance you’ve gotten and I’ve read your responses to Bob and myself, you’ve refered to Republicans as “extremists”. You’ve refered to me as a “racist” and “bigot”. You know not what you speak of. Now you want to back away from all your previous rants. I challenge you as well on the “face of the republican party” they are racists as well! I’m not buying that either. Tell me how the face of the Republican Party is racist? What exactly does that mean? So is the Congressional Democratic White Leadership different from the Republican White Leadership only because there is a Black Democratic President? I really don’t understand your rationale the “face of the Republican Party is racist”. Please tell me how so? I’ve not seen any evidence of it. Supporting Mia Love, Condoleeza Rice, Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas somehow makes them Uncle Toms. But when the democrats support the tax cheat Charlie Rangel, or Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, Alcee Hastings – that’s being inclusive.

          • November 9, 2012 at 10:24 am
            Libby says:
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            Oh, brother. There you go again. I did not say the face of the GOP is racist. I said it is extreme. Unless you agree with Akin, Murdouch, and the countless others that made outrageous statements that cost you guys the election.

            As far as you being racist, the use of the word “chimpanzees” when in a discussion talking about how Obama only won the election because of the black vote was crossing the line for me. You can try to hide behind it by changing it to sheeple now, but the remark was certainly passive-agressively racist.

          • November 9, 2012 at 10:37 am
            TAR says:
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            Well Libby, you’re a coward! In one breath you say “the face of the Republican Party” and now you say that’s not what you said. It’s obvious you cannot defend what you write. You’re content with repeating the DNC talking points. It’s pointless to even continue with a discussion with you. You’re content with using the Debbie Wasserman-Shultz vernacular. It’s ok I understand you’re thin skinned and cannot defend your position. Just continue to call people racists and bigots when you disagree with them. Some will cave and you can chalk that up to a win.

          • November 9, 2012 at 10:47 am
            Libby says:
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            TAR – I will copy, verbatim, my posts:

            “Congrats Mr. President, indeed! I was starting to give up on the notion that my vote counted. So glad I didn’t.

            The problem with the Republicans is not that they nominated a moderate, but that they pushed him from centrist politics to extreme right-wing. This made him a flip-flopper and one that could not be trusted by either moderates or left-leaning folks.

            The Tea Party ruined any chance Romney had. If Republicans are smart they will distance themselves from the extremist, fanatical Tea Partiers and move more central. Only then will they maybe connect with minorities, women, and gays.”

            And another:

            “The reason leftists view Republicans so negatively is because those that have been chosen to represent their party to the public are extremist, outrageous, and completely out of touch with how most people feel about current issues.

            These people put the “face” on conservatism (Akins, Murdoch, Palin, Bachman, and on and on and on.) If you want to change the reputation of Republicans, try getting some out front that truly express your beliefs instead of these nut jobs.

            Just some constructive observations from yours truly.”

            What, exactly, am I am backpedaling on? That is exactly what I said. As far as calling you racist, I have already explained that.

          • November 9, 2012 at 3:45 pm
            TAR says:
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            Let’s see LIbby, I see at least three references to Republicans as “extremists”. and in many of your other posts in IJ you have no problem in calling Republicans “extremists”. You also lumped in Bachman and Palin as what nut jobs. Oh so because of your extreme left wing radical ideology a woman who ran in 2008 is a nut job. I notice you don’t use nut job to describe Sheila Jackson Lee or Maxine Waters or the tax cheat head of the House Ways and Means committee Rangel. You don’t talk about Alcee Hastings being the first Federal Judge in FL to be impeached and now as a U.S. Congressman under investigation. How about Rep. Keith Ellison receiving a $13,000 trip to Mecca and leaving it off of his House Travel voucher (any gift in excess of $25 must be reported), speaking of gifts Rep. Corrine Brown of FL received a $70,000 Mercedes from an African King didn’t report it, then justified accepting the vehicle cause she gave it to her daughter. These people are in Washington DC overseeing our tax dollars and making policies, they can’t even follow their own rules. I’ll take Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin over those thieves any day. Rep.Jefferson from Lousiana accused of accepting bribes when feds found $90,000 in cash in his freezer. The list of corrupt individuals goes on and on and it has infected both parties including the White House.
            You’re so free to use the word extremist and racist. You and your left wing radical socialists are corrupt in ideas and fiscal responsibility. Obama’s Fast & Furious diversions, Benghazi tactic of delay and deny, no fiscal restraint or responsibility. We just gave him four more years of living large at taxpayer expense. Obama spent $1.3 billion in travel and trips, he’s doing great at taxpayer expense. Bob was correct – Obama had no compulsion in accusing then Pres. Bush of being UnPatriotic for increasing the debt ceiling. Well Obama’s handling of the economy and debt makes George out to be a boyscout, adding over $5 trillion of debt, under Obama’s own rationale that would make him unAmerican?
            But you keep to your petty insults and dwell on the small issues and avoid understanding the facts. Just click your heels and continue to repeat the republicans are extremists, republicans are extremists. Maybe you’ll get back to Kansas.

          • November 9, 2012 at 3:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            Get over yourself, TAR. I did not call Republicans extremist. I was making a comment on the perception of the GOP because of the few extremists out there allegedly representing your party.

            But you continue your hate-filled rants against me. It only further illustrates what kind of people there are in your party.

            If you’d like to discuss respectfully, fine. Otherwise I’m not interested in what you have to say.

  • November 7, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    So who is Obama going to blame for the mess he is inheriting this term? I suppose 8 years of it’s Bushs fault might ring true to deadbeats, illegals and economy takers but not for anyone who has any IQ a job and pays taxes.

    • November 7, 2012 at 4:30 pm
      TAR says:
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      GReat point SARGE!

    • November 7, 2012 at 4:49 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Hey Sgt Major,
      How in the heck did an illegal not only win the Presidency once, but now twice? I’ve wrote it before and I’ll write it again, GObama 2012! I kept the faith in spite of what you and Agent told me was going to happen last night. Who are you going to blame since Acorn couldn’t have stole it this time?

  • November 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    I thought the early voting was out of whack only because the Republicans had to work.

  • November 7, 2012 at 5:02 pm
    Perplexed says:
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    Someone needs to hold Barry’s feet to the fire over Benghazi.

    • November 7, 2012 at 5:05 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Right after we hold Bush’s feet to the fire for September 11, the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan.

      • November 7, 2012 at 5:08 pm
        Perplexed says:
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        ARE

      • November 7, 2012 at 5:20 pm
        FFA says:
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        Didnt Busch take action and strike back? Or did he say some BS line and throw his sect of state under the bus?

      • November 7, 2012 at 5:52 pm
        Bob says:
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        Celitica:

        Bush went to congress regarding Iraq. And that war stuff is bull crap.

        We have video of Biden, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, and John Edwards, standing up waving the evidence (not prepared by Bush, prepared from several countries) stating not that SOME of the report showed the need to go wo war, in the case of Al Gore he said “EVERYTHING” let me repeat that for your thick head Celitica, “EVERYTHING” not some of, but “EVERYTHING” in this report says we need to take action in Iraq.

        Look it up.

        Considering Bush didn’t make the report,

        Considering how many countries worked with the CIA to make that report,

        Bush is not the person who led to the Iraq war. It was the culmination of many, including democrats.

        And considering Osama did a troop surge in Afghanistan which failed, and then backed off when he realized popular wars don’t win him points, when are we going to hold his feet to the fire for Afghanistan, if we are roasting Obama we should roast Bush too then.

        • November 7, 2012 at 5:56 pm
          Celtica says:
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          Bob, you seem a bit perturbed.

          • November 7, 2012 at 6:31 pm
            Bob says:
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            Celitica:

            I don’t appreciate someone comparing Iraq to Benghazi, when they are by no means similar.

            Obama had control of the information coming out about Benghazi.

            Bush did not have control on the CIA information being received and the government intelligence from the G7 countries. He presented exactly what he was given, and moved forward.

            Obama presented to the public. This is different. Bush presented that information to congress. Bush also mentioned all of that information in public. It was incorrect information, but again, he didn’t manipulate it directly.

            Obama hid information from the public that mislead the public, and was information that was so inaccurate and went against CIA and intelligence reporting, that we knew it was his info.

            Bush’s info matched the CIA and G7 Intelligence.

            Get the picture?

            Bush does not need to be burned for Iraq.

          • November 7, 2012 at 6:34 pm
            Bob says:
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            Because I know how you’ll reply to my other comment:

            Obama’s comments did not match intelligence.

            Bush’s comments matched innaccurate intelligence.

            This means Bush’s innaccurate intelligence matching CIA and G7 intelligence was consistent.

            Obama’s comments did not match even the inaccurate intelligence. In fact, some was not even reported.

            Bush = matching our intelligence in reports
            Obama = non-matching intelligence reports

          • November 7, 2012 at 7:42 pm
            Libby says:
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            “He didn’t manipulate it directly.” So. You admit he manipulated it INdirectly. Check and Mate baby!

        • November 8, 2012 at 11:25 am
          Bob says:
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          Libby: no, I don’t admit that. That comment ment that he did not compile the information. CIA and g7 countries presented the info to bush bush presented all that same info to congress.

          CIA presented info to obama, Obama presented different info than CIA.

          Again with the semantics and incorrect methodology. You are wrong about Iraq. Get over it. Bush went to congress, Obama did not for Libya.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:31 am
            Libby says:
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            Tell me exactly how many ground troops were deployed to Libya, Bob. You can’t because there were none. Not the same thing at all.

            Bush lied. I am over it since he’s finally gone, but it doesn’t mean I will forget it.

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:54 am
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            You tell me how stating you are going to take out a world leader in Libya is not making a major military action. Don’t argue with me on semantics. He did that without going to congress, and if Obama was wrong, and the people didn’t rebel against Ghadaffi, we would have had a war.

            In Iraq the people were subject to genocide as well. They didn’t fully stand up to Saddam, and it back fired on Bush. Libya could have easily been a second Iraq, and for those possibilities, WE GO TO CONGRESS. ONE MAN

          • November 8, 2012 at 11:59 am
            Bob says:
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            Should never make that decision. My comment got cut off.

            Now moving forward:

            Bush went to congress. Congress acted. Bush did not lie. He gave information which was direct from CIA and the top G7 countries.

            You’re going to have to explain how he lied with reports that he didn’t create.

            Those reports, as I stated, Al Gore was waiving, nearly yelling at Bush that EVERYTHING and I put that in caps because he did not say some he said EVERYTHING in the info report showed we had to take action. It wasn’t the weapons of mass destruction that the report incorrectly said were being procured. It was also Saddam not abiding by 16 UN resolutions. Al Gore made this same comment in 1988 during the election with George H.W. Bush telling him to take action.

            What lie Libby? A 15 year old lie at the time which Al Gore Biden Hillary and John Edwards all followed even before George W Jr. was in office? A lie which was made from intelligence from our CIA and G7 nations? Bush doesn’t have that type of power.

            Again: What caused us to go to war was not Bush’s words. It was the CIA and G7 intelligence we acted on. Bush spoke MATCHING that intelligence. Obama spoke NOT MATCHING the intelligence we had on Benghazi. This means Bush quoted FALSE information whereas Obama quoted NON EXISTANT information.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:03 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Sigh, I typed poorly and I know you will capitalize on it:

            A lie that *some* of the people I listed followed for 15 years, and some followed in the moment.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            Presidents over the decades have conducted military operations without prior congressional approval, including Harry Truman in Korea, George H.W. Bush in Iraq and and President Bill Clinton in Serbia. Congress in 1991 approved the Iraq military action, five months after Mr. Bush deployed forces to the region in response to Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait.

            And the president met with a bipartisan group of lawmakers regarding Libya before any action took place. Even a senior administration official said that “a mission of this kind, which is time-limited, well-defined, and discrete, clearly falls within the President’s constitutional authority.”

            Now, time to move on.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:19 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Keep on track. We were talking about originally how Obama acted in Libya, with no one, and how Bush acted in Iraq, with a full congress and intelligence he didn’t create.

            The point in bringing up Libya was that on a one to one basis, Bush was more complete and inclusive, and honest about Iraq. He asked other’s opinions, he gave them all the info he had.

            Bush didn’t lie about Iraq.

            Regarding the other presidents: Did I bring them into the equation? The root of your crap is saying “all presidents are the same as Obama” and then “here’s where they are worse” and then “therefore they are worse”.

            That is the root of destructive thinking.

            I was using Libya and Iraq to show how Iraq was more inclusive, more information was given out, the reports regarding Iraq were given to congress showing the status so we could know what we were getting into. The info was wrong, but that’s not Bush’s fault, and Bush didn’t lie.

            With Obama he irresponsibly charged into something that could have backfired. That was arrogance. He didn’t have anyone else look at the info. I like 435 eyes in congress. You don’t?

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:21 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            By the way: I really respect and appreciate that you have definitely toned down a bit when we debate.

            Just a random comment.

            We still hit it off but I feel we have both made some progress.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            I am completely on track, Bob. You said ” Bush went to congress, Obama did not for Libya.” That implies Obama SHOULD have gone to Congress and did something wrong by not. I disputed showing evidence that other presidents have done the exact same thing (including your idol, Dubya) to show you he did nothing wrong.

            Making up hypothetical outcomes to bolster your argument is not valid. The Libyans did stand up and the action did not backfire. Why? Because it was well thought-out and executed. Very much unlike the war in Iraq started by George W. Bush.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:39 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            You got most of that right.

            Again, you seem to like bringing past presidents into it. Obama should have gone to congress. Bush did go to congress.

            Since we were talking about Iraq, why don’t we compare Iraq. You said he lied and was dishonest. I showed you how it was impossible. Bush went to congress.

            And I didn’t imply it. I stated it, and I’ll state it again: Obama should have gone to congress.

            But back on point: Bush was more honest and direct about Iraq than Obama was in Libya. We had information in hand when we made that decision, we all had the same info as Bush.

            We had none about Libya, and none in congress.

            I don’t need to compare past presidents. Bush was honest. Even if I compared past presidents, then Bush did what others didn’t, and Obama did with others did. It doesn’t matter if more people did it Obama’s way, does that make it better? No. Does that make it right? No. Does that make it more inclusive and honest, to not include congress, and to not give everyone those reports to read? No.

            Your arguments are moot here and you know it.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:47 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not at all moot. Bush needed to go to Congress to legitimize his pre-meditated decision to invade Iraq. You’re right. Everyone had the same information. But that information was manufactured by Bush and his cronies. And don’t tell me that’s impossible to do. It’s completely possible.

          • November 8, 2012 at 12:58 pm
            TAR says:
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            Libby please enlighten all us readers as how the Bush report was manufactured? Please provide proof it was manufactured? Not even the lefties: joe Biden, John kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barbara Boxer had any evidence the information was manufactured. What a dumb statement. You have a hardon for George W. and making a ridiculous statement. So why aren’t you this upset at the Benghazi Cover Up by your boy Obama? What national security threat did Qadaffi pose to the United States? Afterall Qadaffi was opening up his nuclear facilities to U.N. and U.S. inspectors, he stop producing any weapons grade materials.

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            Just because I have no evidence does not make it untrue. If you believe in God, you know that you do not need “evidence” to believe in something. You do not need to agree with it, but I’m convinced it’s the truth. And I’m not the only one with that conviction.

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:30 pm
            TAR says:
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            Well Libby there is plenty of Evidence about GOD. Just look at this great country, the hillsides and mountains, the birds flying and fish swimming.
            You’ve gone from an illegal war in Iraq to making these extreme statements. The fact is President Bush proceeded as the U.S. Constitution requires a president to do. Then sought approval from Congress with 2/3 majority of Senators voting to approve. So your left wing radical senators led by Biden, Kerry & Clinton also duped the American people.
            Fast forward to Libya – Obama did not seek Constitutional approval in commiting 3,000 U.S. Ground Troops to Libya. Obama did not seek Constitutional approval in ceding control of our U.S.Military to the United Nations. you should be highly pissed about that! Not to mention 4 dead Americans including a U.S. Ambassador!

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:52 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            “You’re right. Everyone had the same information. But that information was manufactured by Bush and his cronies”

            You have to prove this. I started this out by pointing that out in an indirect way. Considering Bush did not create that information, and much of it came from countries even beyond the standard G7, you’re going to have to explain how he had them make an intelligence report for the U.S. in several countries to match up.

            The information he presented could not have possibly been determined by him.

            And again: Al Gore found it so conclusive he stood up and said “everything” in that information said we had to act. He called George H W “irresponsible” for not acting.

            If anything, Bush was a pansy to the public opinion. He should have told them “no”. I don’t view him as perfect. And I would appreciate it if you would stop calling him “Dubya”. A lot of things can be said of Bush, but stupidity of an Ivy League school graduate is not one of them. Side comment: Bush actually had a higher IQ than Obama. So why are we implying that Bush is stupid?

            They were both bright mind you. I would never call Obama an idiot though. Well, I’d call him a moron, but when I say moron it’s usually more of a “I’m pissed off” at you thing.

          • November 8, 2012 at 1:54 pm
            Libby says:
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            TAR – all of those things are also proof of science.

            They are proof of God to you because that is what you choose to believe.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:13 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            Also

            “Making up hypothetical outcomes to bolster your argument is not valid. The Libyans did stand up and the action did not backfire. Why? Because it was well thought-out and executed. Very much unlike the war in Iraq started by George W. Bush.”

            I very much so disagree with this. We should always be cautious. It doesn’t matter when it doesn’t explode. It matters when it does explode, and how explosions happen.

            It was not as well thought out as Iraq. It just turned out better.

            You have to prove with actual line items of how it went down that it was thought out better, not through the result. Sometimes well thought out things go under. You would also have to be stating, that Iraq was less thought out, with more intelligence and with more eyes on it through congress.

            We were wrong about Iraq. It was not less thought out. It tangibly had more thought and process before it took place.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – don’t take my silence as acquiessence. I’m just busy this afternoon and it may take a little time before I can respond. But you know I will!

          • November 13, 2012 at 10:29 am
            Libby says:
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            OK, Bob, I’m finally getting back to you on this. There is plenty of information out there with details on how Bush lied about Iraq and had information manipulated to support his claims.

            http://www.wnd.com/2003/10/21119/

            http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline

            http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/ten_appalling_lies_we_were_told_about_iraq

            http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqlies.html#FALSEHOODS

            This stuff has been around for a long time. You may dispute it, but I believe it and stand by my statement.

      • November 7, 2012 at 6:19 pm
        TAR says:
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        Well Celtica, that’s where you are wrong and all your liberal buddies who don’t understand or don’t care about the U.S. Constitution. Article II Section 2.2 states the President of the United States must make his case before Congress, then seek 2/3 Majority of United States Senate before committing U.S. Troops. Not once but twice President Bush, whether you agree or disagree, went before Congress then awaited the vote of the U.S. Senate. The SEnate then voted 2/3 to commit U.S. Troops to Afghanistan then again in Iraq – thank you Senators Biden, Boxer, Clinton, Kerry. You should also know that Pres. Obama did not make his case before Congress nor did he seek the advise and consent of 2/3 of Senate when he sent 3,000 ground troops to Libya, nor turned our sovereign military over to the control of the United Nations. Whether you agreed or disagreed with Pres. Bush involving us in Afghanistan and Iraq he did it by the U.S. Constitution! So get your facts straight.

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:36 pm
          Celtica says:
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          • November 7, 2012 at 6:53 pm
            TAR says:
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            Well nice deflection Celtica. As I stated President Bush proceeded according to the U.S. Constitution. I know it’s a difficult thing for liberals to understand and following the Constutiton is not really how the liberals like to play. Afterall it’s an old document. Pres. Bush proceeded as the Constitution requires the President of the United States. The U.S. Senate then voted 2/3 majority to authorize the use of force. Do not play games!
            And as for Benghazi, Perplexed is correct. First and foremost the protocol of security – when an IM is received by the White House that states a U.S. Ambassador is “In Peril”, that message goes “DIRECTLY” to the President, you do not pass go, you do not wait around, it goes directly to the President. The NSA Advisor is informed immediately, the Secretary of Defense and State are immediately notified. That meant the President of the United States knew immediately that U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens was in Peril. A 16 man Special Ops team is then put on stand by to come to the aid and/or extract the Ambassador. “Barry” drug his feet, BArry not only contributed to the death of Ambassador Stevens but also Navy Seals Woods and Dougherty for his total inaction as Commander in Chief. You cited above how Barry dispatched the Navy Seals to get Bin Laden, How come he didn’t dispatch the Special Ops to save the Navy Seals? He had over 7 hours to do so, but the Commander in Chief was Negilgent in his duty to protect and defend!

      • November 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm
        Dave says:
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        Just goes to show how out of touch you are. You blame Bush for the 911 attacks? Bill Clinton had his finger on the kill bin Laden button 2 or 3 times and refused to press it. The intelligence community was left to rot under 8 years of Clinton, just as it is rotting now under Barry. It was 8 years of rebuilding the the intelligence community under Bush that led to the intelligence where Barry was able to bag bin Laden. Yes, those silly little enhanced interrogation methods which Barry has now banned while he watches our intelligence slide again. Watch what happens in the next four years due to Barry’s irresponsibility. Just watch. Benghazi is the tip of the iceberg.

    • November 9, 2012 at 11:02 am
      Always Amazed says:
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      Exactly. And what about the drone that was fired at by Libya? The world is out that an Iranian jet was flowing the drone with one of their fighter jets. Drones only fly at a very slow 150 miles or so. How can a fighter jet follow a drone? More Obama admistration lies. Didn’t take long now did it?

      • November 9, 2012 at 11:14 am
        Libby says:
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        I think those were 2 separate incidents. Libya fired on the drone in September. On 11/1/12, Iranian jets fired on a drone over international waters in Kuwait. Is that what you’re talking about?

        • November 9, 2012 at 11:58 am
          Always Amazed says:
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          Yes, Libby, sorry I got a bit confused. Not myself these days. I’m not asking for pity but I just went through having breast cancer and I think the pain medication is messing with my thought process. The Kuwait issue is what I was “trying” to make a point on.

          • November 9, 2012 at 12:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            Well, I wish you a speedy recovery and a cancer-free check-up. God bless.

          • November 9, 2012 at 12:09 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            Thanks Libby. The cancer is gone, thank God. To all women out there – NEVER SKIP A MAMMOGRAM! Men take head also, although rare – you can also develope breast cancer as well.

  • November 7, 2012 at 5:09 pm
    Perplexed says:
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    Celtica are you FREAKING KIDDING ME?????? 9/11 was Bush’s fault???Look for more of the same as your leader isn’t smart enough to know that Al queada is still a threat.

    • November 7, 2012 at 5:54 pm
      Bob says:
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      Perplexed…

      While I kind of threw Celitica under the bus, Obama has always claimed Afghanistan was a threat.

      From day one he said he was going to do the troop surge he did.

      • November 7, 2012 at 6:00 pm
        Perplexed says:
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        Barry also said several times during his campaign tha Al queada was on the run.

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:41 pm
          Bob says:
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          Perplexed:

          I don’t disagree he said that.

          I just can’t in any good conscience claim that he ever gave the image that he was going to back off of Afghanistan, or that he ended it.

          He ran on it in his campaign saying that “bush focused on the wrong war”.

          And he sent roughly 20,000 extra troops to Afghanistan in the surge. That’s by no means backing off.

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:43 pm
          mightyquinn says:
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          Zero lies. Thanks to him, Al Queda is more prevalent than ever. Now we have a thousand of the nuts running around.
          That a major problem with Zero — like his propellerheads he not only talks in sound bites he thinks in sound bites – not long term.

    • November 7, 2012 at 5:59 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Perplexed, it was Obama who went after Bin Laden; Bush wasn’t interested enough to do so and Romney thought it was nuts to spend that type of money (less for tax cuts, you know).

      So … I do believe that Obama does take Al Queda quite, quite and I mean quite seriously.

      Next…

      • November 7, 2012 at 6:36 pm
        mightyquinn says:
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        Zero didn’t want to make the move to get Bin Laden after the Seals located him. The military convinced Zero and he went along with them. Zero is on record for also not wanting to blockade Iran as heavily as was done. Again, the military interceded and he agreed.

        Then he took responsibility for both issues.

        Now its time for the military to intercede again for which he will not be able to take responsibility.

        • November 7, 2012 at 6:41 pm
          Celtica says:
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          • November 7, 2012 at 6:44 pm
            mightyquinn says:
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            Call him what you want but Zero aptly describes him. An empty suit. A cypher. Nothing there. Zero…..but nil, nada, zilch could also fit.

      • November 7, 2012 at 6:39 pm
        Bob says:
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        Celitica,

        Now this is where you are dead wrong. Increasing troops in Afghanistan did not lead to the death of Osama.

        2 of 3 waterboarded Gitmo detainees gave the information that led to Osama 2 years before Obama went into office. Abu being one of them. I might add Abu gave nothing for half a decade, and cracked after less than one year of torture (he was tortured in 2007) liberals tried to argue it wasn’t the torture though.

        Bush was quite, quite, quite, and I mean QUITE seriously focused on getting Osama.

        And were it not for Gitmo, that wouldn’t have happened. Obama on the other hand…Tried to close Gitmo. He also let go of 5 Gitmo detainees in Spring before the attack, and promised to release 55 after the Benghazi attack.

        You are horribly behind on this research…

  • November 7, 2012 at 5:56 pm
    ExciteBiker says:
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    Completely disagree. If the GOP moves to the center (where 95% of the electorate actually is), ditches the moral agenda, and promotes fiscal responsibility while avoiding foreign intervention they will guarantee success. If they double-down on religious crusades and move even further to the right they will guarantee the end of the party.

    The Tea Party emerged from the independent spirit of the electorate, and it sadly was hijacked and morphed into a vehicle for the religious right to take over the party. These crusaders have cost Mitch McConnell yet again, this time in the form of two lost safe Senate seats. I do not think it is a coincidence that both of those Senators both publicly made atrocious, ignorant, and bigoted statements in their quest to win fringe battles. If Boehner and McConnell can’t get the party in line and exile the whackos and crusaders then they lose the long game.

    • November 7, 2012 at 6:00 pm
      Center Point says:
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      Excite Biker — you have nailed this one on the head.

    • November 7, 2012 at 6:53 pm
      Bob says:
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      Excite:

      Very poorly worded, unlike the person below you said.

      What you said above are concepts, that you believe of republicans.

      Moral agenda? Are you aware this country leans conservative? I’m not saying that republicans should be on the right side of where they are now, I’m merely stating where they are on the right.

      Which part of the moral agenda from your perception are they off in? From my point of view the country doesn’t want to have a bunch of demoralized kids. They want Christian values. From my point of view, at least half of the democrat voters are a different type of “liberal” which is all about “moral values” from their perception which matches what the republicans actually are about.

      Are you referring to abortion?
      Are you referring to gay rights?
      Which part of foregin intervention do you feel republicans are stronger in than Obama? Have you been paying attention? Obama intervened in Libya, is considering Syria, and Iran, it’s just a matter of the level. He agreed with Romney. So where do they differ?

      I want specifics.

      No matter how much republicans move left they will not move into power. They will lose their base, as well as not win over the democrat voters who are by nature conservative.

      Conservative voters are indeed confused. That is the problem. And republicans have to show that conservative (what they are) isn’t what the democrats say it is on the far left.

  • November 7, 2012 at 9:49 pm
    West Coast Boy says:
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    Here is a simple question:

    Obama rec’d about a 90% vote from blacks.

    Now, say for argument, that Obama was white, what would be the estimated percentage of black voters?

    Answer…a hell of a lot less than 90% as they (blacks) are voting for him mainly along race lines.

    So, if we had a “white Obama” instead of a “black Obama” with the same lousy 4 year record, Obama would have lost.

    Conclusion: blacks who turned out to vote for Obama are only voting for him since he’s black.

    • November 8, 2012 at 9:17 am
      Arithmetic says:
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      To sum up your comment:

      Hypothesis: Black people voted for Obama because he is black.
      Facts supporting this: Literally none.
      Conclusion: Black people voted for Obama because he is black.

      But of course all of the white people who voted for Obama did so based on his policies.

      • November 8, 2012 at 9:26 am
        Libby says:
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        Arithmetic: You are a mathmatical genius! I’m white and I voted for Obama. Twice! (Not in the same election, though. That would be voter fraud.) :-)

      • November 9, 2012 at 9:23 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Last time I checked, Obama is half-white. Maybe those “blacks” want to take half their vote back, now.

    • November 8, 2012 at 1:50 pm
      Facts of Life says:
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      Facts of Life staring West Coast Boy!

      Fact – 99% of Murders occur in the summer.
      Fact – 99% of ice cream is consumed in the summer.

      FACT – Anyone who eats ice cream in the summer is a murderer.

      Boom! Consider your mind blown!

      • November 8, 2012 at 2:33 pm
        youngin' says:
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        You can’t explain that!

      • November 8, 2012 at 3:10 pm
        Bob says:
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        I love ive cream. I must be racist, and a murderer.

        But I eat it in winter. Now I’m a blasphemor as well. Eating ice cream in winter is like wearing mittens in July. And we all know how awkward it would be if I wore Romney in summer. That’s just not the right time of year. Only after labor day.

        • November 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm
          youngin' says:
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          How do I logic?

          • November 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm
            Bob says:
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            Youngin’ :

            According to the far right, by praying perfusely and plenty of fist shaking.

            According to the far left, pray to CNN and be sure to bring lots of flowers. Kindness will dictate your factoid’s integrity. A coffee and donut never hurts either.

            According to libratarians: Logic Against everyone. Eventually you have to be right on something.

            According to me: I don’t care anymore. Just give me some damn ice cream so I can get rid of this post election head ache!

          • November 8, 2012 at 3:59 pm
            youngin' says:
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            Whoa Bob. You must live in Colorado or something. You’re trippin’ me out, man!

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:12 pm
            Bob says:
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            Youngin’

            if I don’t find some ways of making the logics nonsensical how will I ever have a laugh?

            Colorado scares me, I don’t think I’d move there. I actually like WA despite the liberal tendencies.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:13 pm
            Libby says:
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            Does Colorado scare you because I’m from there??

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:27 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby: haha yes Libby.

            It mostly has to do with the military guys I knew from there 10 years ago, and a few of the women at the time. They were raised in conservative families and really got the wrong idea about religion. Blamed republicans, then went agnostic, etc. The military guys were not men at all, and the women I knew were far too damaged for my liking. It was all the worst of liberal and conservative combined. I can understand why you don’t like conservative in Colorado. I can assure you conservative in Washington is nothing like that.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, that explains it. Colorado Springs. Home of Focus on the Family. I used to write that account and we would have to have a prayer before every meeting & meal. My tongue would be a bloody stump by the time I left there. Some of the meanest, intolerant people I have ever met. But boy were they rich! They showed us their mail room and bragged about making $10k a day.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:36 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            You are correct on the location. Colorado Springs was quite off.

      • November 8, 2012 at 6:49 pm
        West Coast Boy says:
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        And there you have the keen mind of your everyday liberal.

        Facts of life, it’s a fact that if this idiot Obama was not black there is NO way her would get 90% of the black vote.

        Thats just a fact. Did 90% of blacks vote for Clinton or any other white democrat? save yourself the effort…they did not.

    • November 9, 2012 at 9:31 am
      Libby says:
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      So what? I assume you are white and voted for the white guy…

      • November 9, 2012 at 9:35 am
        Libby says:
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        Clarification: this was to West Coast Boy.

  • November 8, 2012 at 7:57 am
    Northeasterner says:
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    I agree with the West Coast Boy. There are two reasons Obama won.
    1. The folks with black skin voted for another with black skin.
    2. Obama has given so many entitlements (read free money, diapers, food, healthcare, child care)to so many that they need to keep him in office to continue receiving all their free products.

    Under his term we have enemies that no longer fear us and friends that can’t trust us.

    • November 8, 2012 at 8:26 am
      Libby says:
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      Nor’easter – just a bit bigoted aren’t you?

      • November 8, 2012 at 2:33 pm
        youngin' says:
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        I’m sorry, did Northeasterner say something intolerant?

        • November 8, 2012 at 2:34 pm
          Libby says:
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          Again. Are you being sarcastic or is that a real question? Because I’ll answer it if I need to.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:37 pm
            youngin' says:
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            Actually that one is a real question. Northeasterner may be wrong but I fail to see bigotry here.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            After reading it again, you may be right about that one. I thought he was equating people on assistance with black people. I apologize, Nor’Easter.

  • November 8, 2012 at 9:28 am
    Arithmetic says:
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    When I came on this site, I expected the comment section to have a more intelligent discourse than that of a Justin Bieber youtube video. Clearly comment sections are the dregs of the internet no matter where you go.

    • November 8, 2012 at 1:58 pm
      youngin' says:
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      There are plenty of inane comments here, but there are also several people who seem relatively well informed and have good debates. I am enjoying Bob and Libby at the moment. I can’t tell if they are drawing from extensive personal knowledge or are just political junkies who parrot talking points from their respective blogs/news organizations, but they present themselves fairly well.

      • November 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm
        Libby says:
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        Between Bob and myself, it’s always personal.

  • November 8, 2012 at 1:18 pm
    ralph says:
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    Here’s the thing: Their guy won. Our guy lost. Now we have to accept the fact that their guy is now OUR guy. We don’t have to like it, but we DO need to accept it. Otherwise, it’s going to be one LONG 4 years. We might not agree with his policies, but we have to hope and pray that they’re successful. Otherwise it’s not only the people that voted for him that lose, it’s ALL of us that lose.

    I wish everyone out there good luck and prosperity over the next 4 years. I hope this finds everyone steadily employed, healthy, and at least reasonably happy. Take absolutely nothing for granted.

    • November 8, 2012 at 2:08 pm
      Perplexed says:
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      Ralph, I will not pray that Barry is successful in further taking our country down the road of no return. Prosperity isn’t likely under his administration.

      • November 8, 2012 at 2:30 pm
        youngin' says:
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        Who is Barry?

        • November 8, 2012 at 2:33 pm
          Libby says:
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          Youngin’. That’s hilarious. Either you’re being sarcastic (good one!) or you really don’t know (good for you.) I wouldn’t know either except for Sarge.

          Barry is Barry Soetaro, a name Obama used in school when he was a kid. Soetaro is the last name of his stepfather. Barry was his nickname.

          Right-wingers use it in a derogatory way to refer to Obama.

          • November 8, 2012 at 2:35 pm
            youngin' says:
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            Gotcha, Barry is a nickname used by Barack Obama’s friends. I didn’t know he had so many friends!

      • November 8, 2012 at 3:48 pm
        Center Point says:
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        Perplexed — prosperity was not present at the end of the Bush II presidency. How could it be tax cuts and two wars to fund.

        Ralph is right. Although I didn’t vote for Romney, if it was moderate Mitt that showed up in the White House, I would have supported his success for it would be our success.

        My current platform is that Obama should appoint Romney as Secretary of Commerce. Not that Mitt would accept — but it would allow him to show what he could have done.

        • November 8, 2012 at 3:59 pm
          Perplexed says:
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          We’re in complete agreement about the Bush era.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            Perplexed – you must be Libertarian and just hate everything. (See Bob’s analysis above.)

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:09 pm
            Perplexed says:
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            No, Libby, not Libertarian. However, I do hate just about everything Obama stands for…abortion (especially killing of a baby that is still alive post abortion), queer marriage (yes, I said queer because they are), and so many other things it’s just impossible to list them all:)

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:10 pm
            Libby says:
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            Obama stands for murdering babies?? And to think. I voted for him. I had no idea!

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:19 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            It’s called a joke. Why would I ever insult each three unless I was the libratarian?

            Why would I as a republican state we get our logics from prayer and fist shaking?

            It was multi layered fun.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            I know. I was joking with him. Relax, Bob. I’m not mocking you.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:21 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby: and in case you didn’t catch why would I insult all and he a libratarian as well as insult libratarians?

            I’m not a libratarian.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:23 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby: mocking him…with my analysis.

            Well that’s new. You’re not supposed to take after me Libby.

            I’m disgusting remember? :-)

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            I never connected you with Libertarism. I was having some fun with Perplexed. Not at your expense. Just referring to your comment so he would know what I was talking about. It was an inside joke to you.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh God! I don’t think I’m taking after you. You made the first joke I’ve ever heard you make and I was rolling with it. That’s all.

          • November 8, 2012 at 4:32 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby:

            There was some panic there. Yoi said it, you liked the joke. Rolling with it is fine with me. I was only making sure it wasn’t bein used to mock me.

            And I’ve made jokes. Just not with you much.

            More to come

        • November 8, 2012 at 4:16 pm
          Bob says:
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          Tax cuts and war spending do not cause recessions. If deficits were the cause of our collapse than we have one hell of a collapse coming after this last four years.

          Just what aspect of the tax cuts and war spending can you link directly to the collapse. Specifics please.

          • November 8, 2012 at 5:03 pm
            Center Point says:
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            Bob – The Bush wars and tax cuts turned a $230 BILLION Clinton surplus in Jan. 2001 into a 1.3 TRILLION Bush II deficit by Jan. 2008. Properity — or collapse? Collapse, me thinks…

        • November 8, 2012 at 5:13 pm
          Bob says:
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          Center: so I believe you just stats deficits was the point correct? We can agree those deficits did not cause the recession, or so too would have Obama.

          War spending has gone from an average of 400 billion including Iraq and Afghanistan to 900 billion last year. Unfunded wars eh? Obama signed off in those tax cuts for the 2008 recession. So the tax cuts were bad when passed for the 2003 recession and good when passed for the 2008? Nice try.

          Moving further forward: if you are upset about a 230 surplus going to 300 billion (you cannot count the last year, that was one year stimulus spending) then Obama is matching that last bad spending year each year, that’s purely prosperity right? You decide. Your logics are inconsistent. Try harder to formulate aide complete opinion.

          • November 8, 2012 at 5:59 pm
            Center Point says:
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            Bob — Obama signed off on the tax cuts because of the recession – to get more money into the economy with spending at the individual level. He didn’t sign off on it because he actually agreed with Bush’s rationale in the first place. Big Diff.

            As for the unfunded war that Obama did not start, there was no alternative but to continue in order to bring about the end game. Please recall that Bush had no end game when he went into both counties.

            I didn’t care for every project that stimulus money went to — I much would have preferred an FDR type plan of investment in repairing the aging infrastructure nationwide.

            As for recession and deficits and what started what, if we had been financially sound in the first place (tax cuts and unfunded wars), the recession would have been a normal blip.

            When the financial institutions (you know, Bush’s base) went belly up, it sent the whole house of cards crashing down.

            And — I think Obama should have gone after the wrong doers. To date, no one has been changed with anything. I find that unacceptable.

        • November 8, 2012 at 5:17 pm
          Bob says:
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          Center:

          And talk about Unfunded spending, not only did he sign off on bush’s tax cut, he gave a further 2.2% payroll tax cut as well, and then spent 780 billion on stimulus which didn’t work, and over spent each year.

        • November 8, 2012 at 6:11 pm
          Bob says:
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          Center:

          Now that I’m not on my phone:

          Bush signed off on the Bush tax cuts in 2003 due to a recession. Did you miss that? That’s two years post the 2001 recession.

          Obama signed off on tax cuts for a 2008 recession nearly identically.

          So Obama was for the tax cuts, for the same reason, but you say he wasn’t for the tax cuts. There’s a major difference eh? You’re plainly wrong here. Obama was for the tax cuts for the same reason as Bush. While Bush wanted them permanent, he backed off on that idea when the democrats showed dismay. Obama is the only reason those tax cuts still exist. And he passed them, again, for the same reason as Bush (a recession)

          Since when were bank loans tied to public debt? This is by far and away the most unlinked thing I’ve read, being linked. Where is the link Center? I don’t dispute that cards fell. I don’t dispute banks played a role. How in the hell do you tie public debt into that?

          How would it have been a normal blip were it not for the war? Spending was equal. This means the standard spending GDP ratios apply. I’m not sure you’re aware, but we attribute X amount of the GDP to spending from military and other areas. The spending can actually expand GDP. The problem comes when we have to raise taxes to pay for the GDP increase. That tax increase hasn’t come yet. It didn’t happen during Bush, so no, that didn’t cause this recession.

          There is plenty of proof that QE 1 and QE 2 have directly contributed to the length of the recession, as well as devalued the dollar. Each time it’s passed, gas goes up by 30%. Then after they go off, for a few months gas goes back down by 30%. It’s happened twice, soon to be 3 times after QE 3. There is on direct way that Obama’s spending has made our situation worse.

          Now then, I’ve given you an example. Give me the figure that caused your “blip” and how war spending or debt affected GDP output, caused more loans to collapse, caused less spending (which could hypothetically cause a blip to become a worse recession in the wrong time) or other factor. You don’t know what you’re talking about, so stop spitting out cliche lines.

        • November 8, 2012 at 6:26 pm
          Bob says:
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          Center:

          I should also note: Goldman Sachs was Obama’s base.

          Let’s not do the “Bush was responsible due to association” or “donation” argument.

          The cards that went down did so for plainly simple reasons.

          Let’s assume that firms need to swap debt and we have a small recession. Let’s say that 100 out of 1000 banks take on the wrong debt at that time. Those 100 will go bankrupt now. Those going bankrupt, will affect the rest of the 900. Now the question is do you know why?

          We have something called: Credit – Default – Swaps.

          Democrats pushed for (low credit) and therefore (high default) swaps, and assumed that (high swaps) would save them.

          It turns out (low credit) (high default) (High swaps) results in everyone taking on and trading bad debt (go figure)

          (high credit) (low default) (high swaps) equates to lower defaults, but in the event that firms do have default loans due to a recession, some firms can trade bad debt and survive.

          Right now we have a bad combo. Now we have (low credit) (high default) (no swaps). In this scenario if a mild recession hits no one can transfer debt. But more importantly, if a bad one hits no one can transfer anything, or sell bad debt to get some sort of capital during a depression. Only the government would be able to buy up the mortgages (making certain QE 4 will be needed some day in the future if we have a second collapse, otherwise captial will go out the window). You think that’s a good thing? I think not.

          It occurs to me you have to be darn well researched to know all of what I put above and why it’s important. During a recession companies with capital buy bad debt. If they can’t do that, only the government can. Firms with captial pull us out of the recession. Limiting credit default swaps limits the purchasing of bad debt in a recession.

          It’s a bad idea.

          More to the point: CRA ratings compared your loans at poverty level to the aggregate year of the last time you were rated. If you had substantially less (which you would need to if you had loans defaulting) you were guilty of red lining. This meant firms had to give out low income loans, and could not stop in the event of loans failing. This is why we collapsed. It had nothing to do with Bush.

          There’s a famous phrase: It takes ten years for policy to take affect at the very least. How do you surmise Bush caused the recession in 7? He attempted to pass housing reform in 2003 and 2005 with no success. How do you suppose he could have changed the laws that lead to this collapse? Most importantly, spell out exactly to me how the collapse happened please.

          No more parroting talking points Center. Let’s see if you know what you’re talking about. I’m perfectly willing to listen, if you have anything that comes as close to analytical as what I just put. Think you have it in you?

        • November 8, 2012 at 6:39 pm
          Bob says:
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          Center:

          I hate it when this thing doesn’t post a comment when I put in links.

          That’s why I rarely put them.

          http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57513390/ratings-firm-downgrades-u.s-credit/

          http://seekingalpha.com/article/841261-on-qe3-buy-oil-and-gas-sell-obama-re-election-odds

          QE affects living costs and gast costs, and the dollar. Or was the Bush’s fault? These were not due to or debt, it was to do with what we were doing with public dollars. If you can provide a similar event to Bush I would love to see it.

          Also these credit rating guys know their stuff. If you don’t believe my concepts, take it from them.

  • November 8, 2012 at 3:22 pm
    Bubba says:
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    Here’s something to chew on, whether or not you like it or agree with it, it’s reality. Per Michael Steele, the black Republican strategist, he said the other night that there are 50,000 Latinos turning 18 every month. Largest growing segment of our population. Lindsey Graham said last night that Bush carried 41% of Latino vote, McCain about 30 something (low 30′s – sorry I don’t remember), and Romney carried about 27%. Republicans are in steady decline with Latinos. (The GOP had a pretty harsh stance on immigration during the Republican primaries, and some Latinos were taking notes, imo). The GOP will have no choice but to compromise on immigration, or the numbers will continue to decline. Latinos carried quite a few states, and I think they made up about 10% of the popular vote. Fast forward 4 yrs from now and you can see how this works.. I personally find it refreshing that people CAN make a difference and force change upon a political party. The GOP better get with it or get left behind. I bet you San Antonio’s mayor will be the Democratic nomination in 4 yrs, and he will b a force to contend with. I see his performance this year at the Democratic National Convention catapulting him to Presidential nominee, much like President Obama’s Dem. Convention speech did for him. I assume the GOP will be forced to nominate Rubio. Just my 2 cents…

  • November 8, 2012 at 7:49 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Well, while the Libs celebrate they don’t see the entire picture. For example, In Wisconsin ( a state that went to Obozo) The state elections for respresentatives all went to the GOP. So now, in the State of WI the GOP has total from the Governor to the house. In Michigan, A state tha went blue for the President now has more GOP seats and a GOP Governor. Surprising but true.

    And since the Democrats are talking about the GOP as “Old White Guys” which is racist in and of itself whether you are white or black (that is right Libby), I was listening to AM 1200 in Detroit this morning. It is a Black Detroit radio station and I was appalled at the racial comments and coomentary concerning the election. It appears that 93% of Detroit “citizens” (deadbeats, criminals and dopeheads) voted for Obama and 7% for Romney. Now why would that happen? Let me give you a hint. This came from radio and tv at Detroit exit polls when asked who they voted for, and I quote ” I voted fo da black guy”, Quote 2. Voter- “I voted Obama”, (exit polling radio host) who? Voter “Obama, the black dude”. Quote 3- Obama, my man. I have a criminal record and no one will hire me so I am gonna let Obama take care of my a*s.

  • November 9, 2012 at 9:26 am
    draetish says:
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    All I can say is the America we knew died on 11/6/12. One good thing is that Obummer can’t blame Bush anymore, it’s all on him now. Just can’t wait to see him fall on his face. So glad the FBI is investigating Benghazi and hopefully they were bought out.

    • November 9, 2012 at 10:05 am
      Libby says:
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      You hope he falls on his face? Really? If he fails, we all fail. Way to love your country!

      • November 9, 2012 at 12:48 pm
        draetish says:
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        Actually Libby, right now I don’t love my country. Give me one good reason and be specific please as to why I should stand behind a non-american president? What has the first lady done the last four years and what will she do the next four years? Take more extragavent vacations at our expense?

        • November 9, 2012 at 12:50 pm
          Libby says:
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          I don’t know your background or heritage, but the President is as American as I am and I was born of American citizens on American soil. As were my grandparents and great-grandparents…

      • November 9, 2012 at 3:10 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        If you loved your country you would not have voted for a fiscally irresponsible, unqualified candidate with a lack of integrity on behalf of the office he holds. If you don’t believe that there are about 57.5 million others that do.

        • November 9, 2012 at 3:17 pm
          Libby says:
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          Whatever Sarge. Just because you were in the military does not give you the right to question my love of country because of my vote. We happen to have a difference of opinion on some things, maybe most things, but not our love of our country. Stop with the cheap shots.

        • November 9, 2012 at 4:40 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Well, there are 61,237,176 that agree with Libby. Hate to say it, Sgt. Major, but…scoreboard!

          • November 9, 2012 at 4:52 pm
            Bob says:
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            Popularity does not equate to being agreed w

          • November 9, 2012 at 5:03 pm
            Bob says:
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            Well more importantly being prom king doesn’t mean you have good ideas.

            It’s a popularity contest. And it do happens kids tend to hate grown ups, just as kids tend to hate republicans.

  • November 9, 2012 at 10:15 am
    Captain Planet says:
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    Oh, Libby, don’t you see? These are the people that make graphics of Lady Liberty with her face in her hands. There are the people that think there is going to be a civil war. These are the people that are in denial this isn’t a mandate on conservative extremists. They have their own alternative reality and President Obama isn’t in it. Though, I’m certain they’ll love the benefits they will have as Obama continues cleaning up the mess he was handed. President Obama has done an excellent job in the face of a Republican mass whose sole goal was to try and make him a one-termer, hence the meeting at The Caucus Room the night President Obama was inaugruated. They failed, something they better get used to unless they actually start working with the Democrats.

    Hey Republicans – Don’t Be A Menace To Society While Drinking Your Bourbon In DC…Boehner and McConnell!

    • November 9, 2012 at 10:18 am
      Libby says:
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      I know, Captain. I keep trying to make sense of nonsense. It’s making me tired.

    • November 9, 2012 at 12:17 pm
      Bob says:
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      Planet and Libby:

      Obama called Bush “un american” for the spending over his total term. Bush’s normal year put us at a deficit of 100-200 billion before the 2008 anamoly due to the recession.

      Now let me give you the reason why we are showing lady liberty crying, it has everything to do with why you guys are un-american.

      The amount Obama will collect from his tax increase: 848.8 billion over 10 years. This is 84.88 billion year. It is estimated this will cost 700,000 jobs. Assuming the pay of those jobs is at the median of $40,000, and that those jobs collect for the government: 12.2 percent total payroll taxes, an 8% federal effective, 1.65 in medicare, the revenues lost from those jobs is 6.118 billion a year. This is both subracted from the GDP spending, but more importantly assuming these people now need welfare, unemployment, and or schooling assistance, of even $15,000 a year, we are now spending another 10.5 billion dollars.

      We now have 16.618 billion dollars. Between that and the 84.88 billion, we have a difference of: 68.262 billion per year.

      Now let’s go over spending:

      QE 1 QE 2: These cost 2.6 trillion dollars over 4 years. That’s 600 billion per year. They caused gas costs to go up, living costs to go up, and were intended to raise housing costs (failed) but my main question: Why raise housing costs in a recession? Those who own a home having a higher housing value is not worth more than giving the people hit hardest by the recession the ability to buy a home at a low cost. Let’s give people the opportunity to buy a home. Not sell one. The main affect of QE was on the stock market. This is only a political talking point, and is why Obama passed QE and is about to pass QE 3. If it’s another 1.3 trillion, then that is 3.9 trillion. Maybe you forgot about “twist” which was passed with QE. That failed as well.

      So now we have 3.9 trillion of spending over 8 years, against 68.262 of additional revenues per year which equates to 546.096. But wait, not only did Obama continue the Bush tax cuts (which most of the cost comes from the low income earners) he also added the payroll tax cut, which costs 120 billion a year. A $480 billion dollar tax cut, which he surmised he would pay for with 273.048 billion dollars. But it gets better. He also thought he would pay for that QE 1 and QE 2 2.6 trillion with those same revenues. He also thought those revenues would pay for Stimulus of $300 billion. He tried to pass a second stimulus of that same amount. So he thought it would pay for 600 billion of stimulus. Welfare/unemployment costs went up 2009-2010 up 2010 to 2011. In 2009 it was at 571 billion also known as a 58.6% increase from $360 billion. The recession was declared over in 2009. So either Obama lied about that recession being over, or he added a ton of people to the welfare unemployment logs who didn’t need to be. That’s another $211 billion 2009 to 2010. From 2010 to 2011 it increased again to $717 billion. That adds another $357 billion. This is up again. That recession is either Really, REALLY over, and Obama is REALLY REALLY spending poorly for people who don’t need welfare, or the recession is REALLY REALLY not over. So those two years are another $568 billion.

      You keeping track well enough to understand yet Planet? I hope you are, because take note: I was lenient, and counted the bailout as Bush. So don’t tell me this was Bush’s deficit. We are now at: $4.248 trillion. Divide it out. 1.062 trillion over 4 years. We would be break even, even with lower recession revenues. Note the following: Revenues in 2007 and 2008: 2.5 trillion. Revenues in 2009 2010 2011: 2.1 2.1 2.3. This means if we want back to the normal 2.5 revenues from Bush’s Tenure when we bounce back up, with 1.062 reduced spending per year, we would have a minimum of 300 billion more to spend. So that’s 1.362 of a swing in deficits. That would be at surplus. So this guy spent 4.248 trillion dollars, with little to no effect, in an attempt to make another housing bubble, failed at even that, and that debt alone causes us to need 212 billion more a year for interest. Now we almost need a higher revenue to pay for this spending after the recession whereas before Obama we didn’t. Obama messed this up big time.

      Bush’s tax cuts were really irresponsible though eh?

      But most importantly: How does Obama intend to pay for 4.248 trillion dollars of spending with an 273.048 tax increase? Even if you negate my 700,000 jobs comment, it’s still only a 339.52 billion tax increase? You guys talked about a 5 trillion dollar tax cut, and paying for a 2 Trillion dollar spending spree, you said the math was impossible. How about that 339.52 to 4.248 trillion dollar lie? A middle class tax increase must be impossible right Planet? Obama must have been lying right planet?

      That type of spending will bankrupt us. It didn’t even do it’s job on the QE front. I bought a new house in 2009. I thought there was no way it could go down. It was 212,000 now it’s 163,000. My sister buys homes in Idaho, house costs are lower now than 2009. Even if Obama got the bubble effect he wanted to get from QE it would have harmed the middle class. You can’t just inflate housing costs and expect it not to pop. You blame Bush for the recession, fine I’ll give it to you (even though you’re dead wrong). Now why do you want a second government created housing bubble? You think housing bubbles work? Inflated housing costs work for the government apparently, in your mind.

      The reason we don’t want to see him in office, and we weep, is this guy will destroy our economy.

      • November 9, 2012 at 12:29 pm
        Libby says:
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        Bob – my head just exploded.

        • November 9, 2012 at 12:40 pm
          Bob says:
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          Planet: well thats because numbers like those take a long time to research. I had to find out when we declared the recession over, how much the difference was each year for unemployment and welfare each year from the norm, and then add up each thing he passed, I also had to find out how much of a link there was to QE and fast costs, and if you saw my CBS link the link was huge. I then researched Obama’s official comments about what the QE was supposed to do. Housing costs are from the lips of the horse. Finding the cost of QE was difficult considering it doesn’t get listed in budget break downs. Twist was passed separately from QE and the costs varied but it was between 20-40 billion a month. These are real issues. No one on the left does this research, and it’s why I’m usually ticked off. Be honest, if I asked you how much revenues Obama planned to bring in and how much his QE cost and what the point of it was, would you have known?

          • November 9, 2012 at 12:46 pm
            Libby says:
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            No, I wouldn’t.

          • November 9, 2012 at 12:48 pm
            Libby says:
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            But when I have more time, I will look at the numbers closely as it interests me. I still owe you a response from yesterday, too. A couple big renewals going on and I’m slammed right now. (Contrary to popular belief, I do work.)

        • November 9, 2012 at 12:42 pm
          Bob says:
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          I meant Libby, sorry for calling you the wrong name.

          • November 9, 2012 at 12:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            Please don’t call me un-American.

          • November 9, 2012 at 1:15 pm
            Bob says:
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            Libby: note the beginning I meant the reason why you are un American to the people calling you that. I started off by saying “we” only in that I am republican and republicans were talking about the statue weeping (you being unamerican) because of the comments that followed.

            It was bad tense wording. But I think you get the point. The reason they find you un American is what I put.

          • November 9, 2012 at 1:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            OK. Because I take my patriotism as seriously as anyone else. I love my country.

  • November 9, 2012 at 10:21 am
    Rod Blajevic says:
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    Can’t wait for Saturday to arrive. That’s when Libby, Captain Planet and others are off the clock, not getting paid to waste their company’s paycheck on posting in IJ.

    • November 9, 2012 at 10:25 am
      Libby says:
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      Sounds like you’re wasting your company’s time reading it.

  • November 9, 2012 at 10:30 am
    Rod Blajevic says:
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    I stopped after the comments hit 88. I checked back in to confirm that you were still wasting company profits.

    • November 9, 2012 at 10:57 am
      Libby says:
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      So, let me get this straight. You stopped what you were doing to check into IJ, then felt the need to post some snarky comment about the people posting? For what purpose? To make yourself feel superior in some way?

      At least we have relevant things to say. Do us all a favor and delete IJ from your favorites and stay off the site.

    • November 9, 2012 at 12:09 pm
      FFA says:
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      Oh my god – the “P” word. That dirty little word. What have you done? Way to throw gas on a fire. Profits – Shame on you for thinking some should earn a profit. (Sarcasm).

    • November 9, 2012 at 3:13 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      Don’t worry Rod, she says she is a “Broker” so she don’t get paid until she sells something or gets canned for wasting company resources and not seeling anything. So she either lied about being a “Broker” or she is wasting the company’s resources.

    • November 9, 2012 at 3:17 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      Don’t worry Rod, She says she is a “Broker” so she don’t get paid until she sells somethng which looks like she isn’t because she is on this blog all the time. Or she lied about being a “Broker” and is wasting the company’s resources while she is munching on bon bons in the cublicle and looking stupid on IJ.

      • November 9, 2012 at 3:19 pm
        Libby says:
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        You’re on here as much as I am, Sarge. It’s you who looks stupid insulting me like that. Grow up and act like a gentleman.

      • November 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        “Super Bon Bon, Super Bon Bon”
        -Soul Coughing

        Great song! Search it, buy it, jam to it. Rinse and repeat.

  • November 9, 2012 at 11:02 am
    Rod Blajevic says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

  • November 9, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    draetish says:
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    Libby says:
    1I don’t know your background or heritage, but the President is as American as I am and I was born of American citizens on American soil. As were my grandparents and great-grandparents…

    Aside from the fact that this is untrue as Obama is a self-admitted muslim who boldly stated he’d side with islam should he have to make the decision (in his early days). As I recall, America was founded on Christianity, the bible and GOD (yes I said GOD). The values of people is what is leading this country to hell and we don’t have a leader that has the same morals or values as “true” Americans have. Thank GOD I still have a right to my opinion whether you agree or not. This is why I cannot accept Obama, not because he is black, green or purple.

    • November 9, 2012 at 3:14 pm
      Libby says:
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      You’re funny draetish. Would you jump off a cliff if some right-wing nut told you to? You’re basing your gibberish on a video that starts off by saying:

      “The writers, producers, editors, and publishers of this video are not stating, claiming, or implying that Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim, or that Obama himself claimed or admitted to being a Muslim. Rather the writers, producers, editors, and publishers of this video are only examining the evidence surrounding the rumor that Barack Hussein Obama might be a secret Muslim.”

      It’s fine if you don’t like Obama, but please, do some research before spouting off some nonsense like he admitted he is a Muslim and would support Islam.

      Even if he IS a Muslim (which he is not) there is no law in America that says you have to be Christian to be a good American. This country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION, not “Christianity, the bible and GOD.”

      Good grief. Maybe a civics class would be in order.

    • November 9, 2012 at 3:22 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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  • November 9, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    This was a great election if you are on goverment assistance-i.e. welfare especially if you are a second generation welfare family. It was also good if you are an economy taker not a giver. By that you are a deadbeat, illegal alien, drug dealer, lazy, expect the government to take care of you even when you are able bodied, have no interest in getting a job, collect benefits while you manufacture methapmphetemine, grow Marijuana etc.. Essentially have no interest in contributing to the economy and thus have no integrity. Your whole day is consumed in trying to figure out who you can scr*w be that individuals or the government.

    Now there are people who need temporary assitance because of unforseen circumstances and I am all for that. I am all for helping the needy but I am against funding lazy. Unfortunately, the lazy/takers get to vote.

    The difference here is simple- goverment givers/ contributors sign their check on the signature line on front of the check. government takers sign their checks on the back of the check and cash them. The problem is the “Weeper in Chief” does not now the difference.

    • November 9, 2012 at 4:55 pm
      Bubba says:
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      You are stating the very ignorance that is wrong with half of this country, right there in your post SGM. I voted for Obama, and thought it WAS a great election. BUT- wait for it…. I have a great job. Not on welfare. Not receiving any handouts. I pay my taxes. And I’m a white guy. Even served 3 yrs in the 82nd Airborne Infantry. It must be mind-blowing and inconceivable to you that Fox News hasn’t told you of this fact- that middle-class, tax-paying, college-educated white men with jobs voted for Obama. I actually watch Fox News myself, not just for entertainment purposes, but mainly because I’m just so intrigued and curious as to how so many people are duped by this biased joke of a news channel. They have failed you miserably with misinformation, and it’s been a hoot to watch their contributors squirm in their seats trying to explain how they were so wrong, predicting a landslide victory for Romney. They intentionally misled their viewers, in hopes to sway any undecided voters. They were wrong about the election, and are wrong on just about everything else they report. The smear tactics continue on Obama to try to discredit him at every turn on every attribute possible. Fox relies on fear, reports speculation that fits their agenda, and they have their viewers believing that every other news station is liberal and biased. They have zero credibility, and so do their anchors and contributors. I challenge you to try another news source for awhile. It may save your brain from rotting with hate and fear, and from speaking ignorantly. That’s just my opinion, and everyone has one. I respect you for your service, though.

      • November 9, 2012 at 5:37 pm
        Bob says:
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        Bubba – if you honestly believe that the 17 million new food Stamp collectors didn’t pitch in to just over 60 million votes, you’re crazy.

        That’s not including those on unemployment, and let me be clear, if you were on your 35th week of unemployment during this election, you would have reason to vote democrat over republican.

        In WA I know of plenty of people who voted unemployment as I call it. Saying it did not affect this election is a lie.

        It doesn’t matter if “all” people who vote democrat are that way. Most people on unemployment and increased food stamps collectors made up a good chunk of your voters.

      • November 10, 2012 at 2:26 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        Good for you personally- “Bubba”, you voted for Obama after all that. Then why did you vote for a fiscally irresponsible candidate that has absolutely no qualifications and a lack of integrity and respect from the troops that serve him. That is a fact.

        The truth is you have a job and pay taxes and you happen to be a democrat. That does not make the truth go away about the direction of this nation, the crushing debt Obozo put on, the lack of transparency (Benghazi, fast and furious, budget, obamacare etc), the fact that he will reduce if not gut defense. If you were in the 82nd then you know they still issue bayonets- Well the “Commander in Chief” did not know it and wants to eliminate them. What a dope.

  • November 9, 2012 at 4:21 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Sgt. Major, you could have just stopped at, “This was a great election.”

    • November 9, 2012 at 5:29 pm
      Bob says:
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      Obama’s methods to re election were by no means “great” by any means of the word.

      He played off 4.28 trillion of spending as if it never happened for QE 1 and 2. He played off raising gas costs as if that had nothing to do with QE.

      He played off 80 billion per year tax increases to pay for that 4.28 trillion extra spending. I’m not talking traditional. This 4.28 was broken out above in anothe post. At the same time he said Romney’s plan either needed tax increases on the middle class or exploded the deficit. All Romney had to do was end QE no more stimulus, end pay roll tax cut like Obama planned, end twist, and revert unemployment back down to 26 weeks as well as modify welfare unemployment back to 2008 levels and bam. We would be at equal as soon as revenues went back up to 2.5 trillion.

      But apparently Romney had no plan. Apparently Obama had proven he had “balanced” methods of cutting the deficit. The only reason Obama won was scare tactics, and using Bush. That is not a “great” election.

      • November 10, 2012 at 6:10 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        Amen Bob!

  • November 9, 2012 at 5:54 pm
    draetish says:
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    ..White House: Obama to Travel to Thailand, Myanmar and Cambodia
    ABC OTUS News – Thu, Nov 8, 2012..

    There goes “your” president, off to party while America is in disaray.

    • November 12, 2012 at 9:24 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      Yes, everyone knows if you want to get after it and have a great time, head to Cambodia. That place rocks! Did you even care to read why President Obama is making this trip? Or, did you just regurgitate the same Rush talking point I heard on Friday? If you can’t support OUR President, who is the leader of OUR free world, you should leave OUR country!

  • November 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    An Bubba- how do you know which news progrqams I watch and don’t watch. You want to quote Fox news like it is the only news non bleeding heart liberals watch. I can tell you this. I don’t watch MSNBC and especially Chris Mathews who the other day said and I quote “I am glad that hurricane Sandy hit the east coast. That really helped Obama” Wow, I am sure all of the people who are still suffering and lost everything they had are great to hear him say that. What a classy news journalist. How about this, I have CNN, NBC and Fox on my I phone as well as all of the financial reports and WSJ. I also watch all of them at home. I am amazed at the difference in the reporting.
    I also listen to an all black radio station in Detroit and the racial content is appalling whether you are white or black. So don’t sit there and pontificate because I am not a bleeding quasi socialist who believes spending the country into bankruptcy is ok.

    • November 12, 2012 at 10:40 am
      Libby says:
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  • November 10, 2012 at 6:31 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    I was listening to AM 1200 in Detroit on Friday. All black station and turned on Al Sharpton at 1:00pm This must be a syndicated show, so if you want to understand how some of the Dem population voted find ” Your Pal Reverned Al” At 1:00pm. So here was the topic-

    Al Sharpton- Callers tell what we should ask the President that we need in his second term?

    Le Andre from Baltimore- ” Rev we need to ax Obama to expunge all the criminal records so we can get a job. If nothing showed up on our records we could get a job. None of the people I know can get a job because they all have criminal records”.

    That sounds like a fine fiscal idea that will benefit all and not be a waste of time and money.

    • November 12, 2012 at 9:29 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      • November 12, 2012 at 10:54 am
        Sargent Major says:
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        Sure they do Planet, they are a part of the Democratic culture and a big part of the problem. They are the Takers that drain the economy and Obama supports with many of his spending initiatives. Other wise he would be talking about welfare reform or medicaid reform, elimination of able bodied economy takers and things like stopping Illegal Immigration, But he can’t. Why? It is what got him elected and stupis people get to vote.

  • November 12, 2012 at 10:55 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    should have been stupid

  • November 12, 2012 at 10:59 am
    Dave says:
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    Obama won on a general lack of understading of basic economic issues by a huge percentage of the American voter. Bumber sticker politics and attack ads successfully elected an economic neophyte to the highest office in the land. I won’t bother explaining all the flaws in his economic policy as I could write a book about it, the the average American voter unfortunately has no clue and will continue to elect people who look and sound good over those who can provide the best and sometimes painful medicine needed to get us out of the economic quagmire and ominous debt we are building.

  • November 12, 2012 at 11:07 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Here is another example Planet-

    The newly elected 1st District seat in Michigan (East side of Detroit) just elected an 8 time felon to represent them in the State in Michigan. This guy was convicted 8 times for credit fraud and writing bad checks. Just last week a person got a judgement for $3,750.00 against him for not paying his rent and another has a claim agianst him for a $2,000.00 bad check (at least that is what I recall). So, here is a guy that could get charged again and has not been sworn in yet. His name Brian Banks and his slogan was “you can Bank on Banks”. You can even find an article on him in the Huffington Post!

    Now, Detroit voted 93% for Obama and 7% for Romney. Same people that voted for this tu*d. It is the culture of the party

    • November 12, 2012 at 11:40 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      2 words…err, names – same person = Darrell Issa.\

      Also, the Republican “oh sh!t mantra” – it is better to get caught with a dead girl than it is a live boy. How long do you think it will take for either or all of Bob Van Der Plaats, Rick Santorum, and Marcus Bachmann to test that? I realize Marcus isn’t a politician, but he does “cast away the gay” by practice. What a crock!

      Everyone out here has been a taker of the government in one fasion or another, so don’t give us that crap. If you think welfare is so great, quit your job and find out firsthand. People on welfare aren’t exactly living the dream. And, a strong majority of them ARE looking for work. Many of them are working 3 part time jobs because they can’t find 1 good full time job. Get a clue and if you need to, go actually visit some welfare homes, some needy people, those who are using the social safety net. I’m not seeing what The Right is spilling on radio and TV. I have yet to meet 1, just 1, “welfare queen”. What an oxymoron.

      • November 12, 2012 at 11:52 am
        Libby says:
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        Captain, I don’t know about the oxy part.

        Most of the Republicans that rail against it wouldn’t be caught dead near some of the neighborhoods they call full of “economy takers, deadbeats, illegal aliens, drug dealers, lazy, expect the government to take care of you even when you are able bodied, have no interest in getting a job, collect benefits while you manufacture methapmphetemine, grow Marijuana” people. Who “essentially have no interest in contributing to the economy and thus have no integrity.” So they have no idea what they are talking about.

        As I’ve pointed out before, drug dealers have more money than we do and do not need to be on welfare. Illegal aliens are not eligible for welfare. Deadbeat parents will have their welfare garnisheed to pay their child support.

        The amount of hate and biased is incredible from these people.

        • November 12, 2012 at 12:05 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          I hear you, Libby. The amount of bias, lack of actual experience of what they are jibbering about, and the misinformed talking points we read out here on a daily basis are enlightening, to say the least.

          Excellent point on the drug dealers. In fact, from what I understand, they agree with the Republicans on Colorado. They are pi$$ed off at the legalization. If we get more states to do this, maybe we can squash out some of these losers who continue to peddle to our children. Marijuana could easily be controlled like alcohol and then we wouldn’t have much of the crime associated with that drug. Unless ordering too much pizza is a crime. We’d also have more room in our prisons for real criminals. Like, Darrell Issa, for example.

          • November 12, 2012 at 12:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            Darrell Is-a what?

        • November 12, 2012 at 12:38 pm
          Sargent Major says:
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          Libby said- Most of the Republicans that rail against it wouldn’t be caught dead near some of the neighborhoods they call full of “economy takers, deadbeats, illegal aliens, drug dealers, lazy, expect the government to take care of you even when you are able bodied, have no interest in getting a job, collect benefits while you manufacture methapmphetemine, grow Marijuana” people. Who “essentially have no interest in contributing to the economy and thus have no integrity.” So they have no idea what they are talking about.

          That is where you are WRONG AGAIN Libby. I grew up in one of those neighborhoods you talked about above. How much time have you spent in one of “Those neighborhoods”?

          • November 12, 2012 at 1:40 pm
            Libby says:
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            You grew up in it Sarge. When it wasn’t filled with all those people you loathe. You don’t live there anymore.

  • November 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- As I’ve pointed out before, drug dealers have more money than we do and do not need to be on welfare. Illegal aliens are not eligible for welfare. Deadbeat parents will have their welfare garnisheed to pay their child support.

    You really don’t know what goes on in “those neighborhoods” because you probably have never been or lived in one. This shows your ignorance of what really goes on and who who gets what. Fact is “drug dealers” stand in line to get a check just like the 5 or 6 mothers of the children they father. Illegal aliens get emergency assistance, when American citizens who stand in line and need it can’t. They even have a special Fed assistance program for pregnant illegal women. How do I know. My wife is a nurse. You really are out of touch with reality. Maybe you should find a local hood and spend a few months living there.

    • November 12, 2012 at 1:50 pm
      Libby says:
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      I don’t need to live in a local hood, Sarge. I’ve lived in plenty of them and visit them still. You should stop with the hate and actually learn what most of these people are all about. It’s the same things we are all about. Trying to eke out a living, take care of our families, feel good about ourselves and find a little joy here and there. They are not another species, but are human beings just like you and me. Sure there are some that will take advantage of the system, but they are not the majority.

      You are so worried about someone getting a piece of your pie, all the while saying to the others “let them eat cake.” Until your pie is gone and there is no cake. Then you’ll be the first one in line complaining the loudest about what you deserve.

      You’re like an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. Going through life with your yardstick out measuring who’s got more than you and complaining about those that might threaten what you have. You’d be much happier if you stopped judging everyone else based on their socio-economic status.

      • November 12, 2012 at 2:18 pm
        sgal says:
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        Some of us prefer to help them through respected charitable organizations instead of letting the government decide how to best throw OUR money at them.

        • November 12, 2012 at 2:21 pm
          Libby says:
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          Unfortuntely, not everyone feels the way you do. I give to charities of my choice, as well, and am sure they are grateful for all of it.

  • November 12, 2012 at 2:17 pm
    An actuary says:
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    “But historically, voters have given a second term to incumbent presidents who preside over even modest economic growth during an election year.”

    Uh, no. Growth in 1992 was twice what it is in 2012; how did that one turn out? IJ swings and misses.

    • November 12, 2012 at 2:18 pm
      Libby says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • November 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • November 12, 2012 at 3:16 pm
          J.S. says:
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          “Read my lips. No new taxes.”

  • November 12, 2012 at 5:57 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “You are so worried about someone getting a piece of your pie, all the while saying to the others “let them eat cake.” Until your pie is gone and there is no cake. Then you’ll be the first one in line complaining the loudest about what you deserve.

    You’re like an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. Going through life with your yardstick out measuring who’s got more than you and complaining about those that might threaten what you have. You’d be much happier if you stopped judging everyone else based on their socio-economic status”.

    Once again you are a moron. All you want to do is cry that we the people need to share more with everyone else including you. I have an idea for you- why don’t you just voluntarily pay more of your money to the federal government. Just take the fed form and write on it- payment to reduce federal debt and send it in. in fact send in double your normal tax rate. They will take it

    All your party wants to do to is toss moeny at the issues and buy voters which in and of itself is racist. Your not helping them and promoting ideas that will get them off welfare, medicaid, drugs and a commitment to family values. Your party takes advantage of the people, most of which have low IQ’s and don’t even understand who is running at the state and local level let alone the issues. Those that do (which I assume you are one maybe) then they are bleeding socialists who toss moey and go home to their warm homes.

    All you want to do is treat the symptons and not fix the problems. If you wanted to fix the problems you would look at welfare reform, medicaid reform, Obamacare, illegal immigration etc. etc. You would want those who can’t get jobs or are able bodied to replace the illegals in this country even if the feds had to subsidize the wages. Or yoiu would want to get at least the next generation off of what they see as welfare entitlement.

    • November 13, 2012 at 8:39 am
      Libby says:
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      You make assumptions about me that are not true. I am for helping and promoting ideas that will get people off welfare and drugs. I am not a bleeding socialist, just a realist that sees the problems are not as easily solved as you seem to think.

      First of all, reform will not “fix the problem.” It, too, will only treat the symptom. The problem is why are so many people on assistance and what can we do to address that?

      Your solution is to boot them all to the curb and let them fend for themselves. Mine is to dig deeper and try to identify the root cause of the problem (risk management 101) and create a plan to fix it. What you and I have is not so much a difference in opinion as it is a difference in how to attack and solve the problems.

  • November 12, 2012 at 5:59 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Bu then if you looked at reform, then the Democrats would not get elected.

  • November 12, 2012 at 6:34 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “I don’t need to live in a local hood, Sarge. I’ve lived in plenty of them and visit them still”.

    Oh you have lived in a hood? You told me your father was a West Point graduate, retired a Col. So what was bad, living in the base officers quarters? Col housing was pretty good last I checked.

    So which is the lie? Living in a bad neighborhood or being an army brat?

    • November 13, 2012 at 8:33 am
      Libby says:
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      I left home when I was 17, Sarge. And lived in alot of places that were in the hood, which was what I could afford. I worked and supported myself since I was 17 and I don’t lie.



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