Small Business Owners Face Health Insurance Dilemma

By Joyce Rosenberg | December 6, 2012
Businessman Working With Modern Devices

  • December 6, 2012 at 10:10 am
    Roshan Shah says:
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    Look at Medical Tourism as option. Insurance firms are already having packages of paid surgery abroad packages.

    • December 6, 2012 at 1:23 pm
      Libby says:
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      How is that a viable option if it doesn’t comply with the law?

      • December 6, 2012 at 3:05 pm
        FFA says:
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        The only Viable (Logical) Option is to get rid of this thing. People are going to lose their jobs. Business are going to fold.

        Of course what do you expect from an IL politician. He should change his name to me and my egobama. If he were in a bat man movie, he would the dream & job killer villan.

    • December 6, 2012 at 1:28 pm
      PM says:
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      Roahan. What does “paid surgery abroad packages” mean?

      • December 6, 2012 at 4:43 pm
        FFA says:
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        Ship medical care out of the country just like all the manufacturing jobs.

  • December 6, 2012 at 1:35 pm
    tw says:
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    what kind of consequences to legislation should we expect from someone who has never led a business or anything else for that matter before?

    • December 6, 2012 at 2:03 pm
      Center Point says:
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      • December 6, 2012 at 2:06 pm
        Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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        True there is no easy answer, but there are wrong answers.

  • December 6, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    Ruminator says:
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    Obama should have just set prices that can be charged by the medical community — or maybe how much an insurance company can charge in premium dollars — or both. He doesn’t seem to care if the plans are effective or reasonable, as long as he can have his own way.

    • December 6, 2012 at 1:53 pm
      Cheetoh Mulligan says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Oh no! You’ve disparaged their God. Okay, Libby you go first, then Capt Planass, …..

      • December 6, 2012 at 2:03 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        I do not pray to Obama, contrary to popular belief. He just da POTUS.

    • December 6, 2012 at 3:01 pm
      FFA says:
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      He should have addressed the factors that drive the cost – Tort Reform – and reign in Med Mal costs as a result abd Fraud. Pluss, kick the Illegals to the curb – send them back to where they came from.

      Instead – he chose to send business out of business and destroy the job market.

    • December 6, 2012 at 3:54 pm
      FFA says:
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      The Laws of Supply and Demand should set the price.

  • December 6, 2012 at 1:55 pm
    CB says:
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    I predict many employers are going to stop offering health insurance coverage because it will be cheaper to pay the penalty. Then we’ll have a nation of individuals looking to procure coverage on their own – something many have never done before – or force paying a penalty themselves. So the employer pays $2,000 per person for not offering coverage and then if the employee does not procure their own coverage, they pay up to $2,500 (if I remember correctly), so the IRS stands to collect up to $4,500 per person if a “qualifying” employed person does not have health coverage. Who is winning in this scenario besides the government and Medicaid recipients? Once again, American Taxpayers foot the bill.

    • December 6, 2012 at 2:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      CB, We are witnessing the opening salvo of what businesses intend to do. The companies employing 50-100 will be reducing employment to fall under 50 and avoid compliance. Many will reduce the number of hours of employees below 30 to keep enrollment down. How will that help the employees needing a full time job to make ends meet? They will have to find another part time job in a market that is not hiring. As I have stated before, this bill is the biggest job killer ever passed by Congress.

      • December 6, 2012 at 3:22 pm
        Ins Guy says:
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        Here’s another scary scenario. The employers’ choose an employee group plan, but only contribute $2,500/year to your group premium per employee. (is there a minimum employer contribution $/% now?)

        The employee opts out because it’s too expensive and they get off without penalty because the employee “chose” not to take it.

        • December 6, 2012 at 3:28 pm
          Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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          i think if it is deemed too expensive the employer has to pay a $3,000 penalty.

        • December 6, 2012 at 4:45 pm
          FFA says:
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          Typical Carrier I used to represent had a 50% contribution rate.

  • December 6, 2012 at 2:00 pm
    Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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    It also makes a lot of sense for the employer to have to pay a penalty of $2,000 if you don’t offer health insurance to the staff, but $3,000 if you try and it is deemed not affordable, which I think would mean it is a really good policy.

    • December 6, 2012 at 4:46 pm
      FFA says:
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      Who determins if its affordable?

      • December 6, 2012 at 6:10 pm
        Ins Guy says:
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        That’s my question too. Typically, you would assume a group policy is cheaper than an individual policy anyway, because of the buying power of the group. Too expensive on a group plan is still cheaper than an individual plan.

        As someone said elsehwere (may have been you Cheetoh), these companies will find the cheapest way out.

        • December 6, 2012 at 6:26 pm
          FFA says:
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          NOOO. Group is more expensive then Individual in Il anyways. Been that way for years. Current stratgy is get individual if you can before Pre X mandate kick in.
          The cheapest way out will not be cheap at all.

          • December 7, 2012 at 2:31 pm
            Agent says:
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            I have found on Groups I have done that the dependent rate is extremely expensive and much more than the employee only rate. The employee typically cannot afford to cover his wife and 2 kids so he buys an individual policy for them. Sometimes the wife works and is covered under her employer plan. There is going to be a lot of trouble with employers dropping coverage for employees. The indivdual plans will end up being Medicaid like coverage with the exchanges and who knows what will be charged on the premiums.

          • December 7, 2012 at 2:49 pm
            Libby says:
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            I don’t know why there isn’t a charge per dependant. Instead you purchase “family” coverage and the carrier may be covering 1 kid or 12. They don’t know, so the cost gets spread around to all. Again, I’m not a benefits guru so don’t beat up on me too bad.

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:27 pm
            FFA says:
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            Because Libby, thats just the way it is. Soon as the acturials put the pencil to paper, thats the way the math breaks out.

          • December 11, 2012 at 8:10 am
            Libby says:
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            That’s not an answer.

      • December 7, 2012 at 9:35 am
        Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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        From what I have read, it is determined by whoever sets up the exchanges, either the state or the feds. It is measured against the baseline policy and its determined costs. Every week the feds issue more guidelines, so they really don’t know. It is probably just being read now, finally.

        • December 7, 2012 at 3:03 pm
          Agent says:
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          Cheetoh, I read an article the other day on the exchanges. It said that States that don’t set up exchanges will face premiums 3.5% higher than ones who do. How is that for intimidation? A great handling charge for the Feds to collect.

  • December 6, 2012 at 2:22 pm
    FFA says:
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    All Hail the great American Dream / Job Killer! Thanks OBama!
    One hell of an Ego trip you must be on ruining all these Business and lives.

    • December 6, 2012 at 3:20 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, sorry about your Bears in the last game. The NFL stands for – Not For Long. About the time you think you have it figured out on a team, they will let you down. I gave up on the Cowboys a long time ago. I have no idea how they have won 6 games, but it is likely they will go 7-9 and miss the playoffs once again.

      • December 6, 2012 at 4:11 pm
        FFA says:
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        Lovie out thank himself. Should have kicked the FG.
        I did watch the last Cowboys game. It was entertaining. Keep hearing different names floated around for the new head coach. But, to my knowledge, its still Jason Garrets team.
        Urlacher appears to done for the year. Looking like its time to pass the torch for him. Briggs is a great field boss. Roach is also a decent player you never hear about because the other two over shadow him.

        Business as usual her in IL. Another politician arreste dyesterday for trying to carry a loaded fire arm on a plane. Beavers on trial for campaign money mis use. I think they got him on Income Tax evasion.

        One knuckle head move after another out of these guys. Here is another one – I have to pay a Franchise Tax even though I am not a franchise in IL.

        • December 7, 2012 at 9:57 am
          Agent says:
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          If Garrett goes 6-10 or 7-9, he is out of there. The natives are very restless in Big D. We need a change in the General Manager’s position too. Poor Jerry, he just keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Stupid ballplayers and inept coaching does not a winning team make. On top of that, they lead the league in every penalty category with little improvement after 12 games. The attendance is starting to wane as well. Not a good sign for this team.

      • December 7, 2012 at 8:17 am
        Libby says:
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        How bout my Broncos?? Pretty good, huh?

        • December 7, 2012 at 11:59 am
          FFA says:
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          I dont see anyone pulling away from the pac in the AFC. I got to cheer for the tried and true Vet – GO PEYTON!!!! Come back player of the year as far as I am concerned.

          How bout them Jets benching Sanchez just after resigning him and then demoting him and promoting third stringer ahead of Tebow.

          Cowboys dont have the market cornered on stupid moves.

          • December 7, 2012 at 12:14 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, I don’t think the Houston Texans are chopped liver at 11-1 and leading the entire NFL and they are in the AFC. There are many dysfunctional teams in the NFL and the Jets and Cowboys may lead the pack. Losing teams do wierd things and usually the quarterback is blamed even if he has no line to protect him and receivers don’t get open.

          • December 7, 2012 at 12:57 pm
            FFA says:
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            I am liking what I see in Houston. Your RB is as good as they get. Will most likely be elevated to clear cut – no debate – #1 pick in Fantasy League next year. Schaub may be a first round pick next year too. That kid on your D is just tearing it up. Johnson aint finding the E Zone as ofter as one would like in FFball so he may fall to a 5th rounder. He is sure racking up the yards.
            No doubt, Texans will need to be dealt with on the way to the S Bowl. Hopefully, see you there!

            Seen on the sports last night that Turner may be done in San Diego.

    • December 6, 2012 at 4:42 pm
      Center Point says:
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      • December 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm
        FFA says:
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        No, they dont. Shame on them for what they did. They did it withing the frame work of the law. Shame on the law makers that made it possible to do that.

        Neither Romney and Bain are in any position to change what they did so they may as well keep doing it. The buck stopps at the top(president office). I have never heard him – or any politician – do anything to reverse this trend.

        I voted against everyone that was in office. I will continue to do that right down to the local elections. Glad to see my mayor has declined to run. That is – of course – due to his ethical problems while in office. That is indeed the IL way.

        • December 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, You can post twice everytime and I will like both times.

          • December 6, 2012 at 6:30 pm
            FFA says:
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            Did not mean to post twice. I need to replace my lap top as funky things are happening.

      • December 6, 2012 at 4:57 pm
        FFA says:
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        No, they dont. Shame on them for what they did. They did it within the frame work of the law. Shame on the law makers that made it possible to do that.

        Neither Romney and Bain are in any position to change what they did so they may as well keep doing it. The buck stopps at the top(president office). I have never heard him – or any politician – sa7y or do anything to reverse this trend.

        I voted against everyone that was in office. I will continue to do that right down to the local elections. Glad to see my mayor has declined to run. That is – of course – due to his ethical problems while in office. That is indeed the IL way.

        • December 6, 2012 at 5:19 pm
          Sargent Major says:
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          FFA, all these libs that believe what they read in the Huffington Post and Rolling Stone do not understand Bain Capital. All you have to do is go to the Bain Capital website http://WWW.baincapital.com and you will see how many industries that they are in and look at some of the names in each industry. There are major player companies in many different industries and many are hot growth companies including health care. So they are a company that wants job growth that drives revenue and profits. That means more money for Bain. What Bain will do is invest i start ups, restructures and restructure losers and try to turn them around if they believe they are savable. That may cost jobs but it also saves some if the company survives. The way the libs see it they should just let those comapnies go bankrupt so they would not be critized. Or a better lib philosophy is to just pour good moeny after bad and let them continue to lose their a*s.
          Fact of the matter is they have created far more jobs than the current administration. Somebody tell me how many jobs has Obama created? I mean net jobs of what has been lost since he became president. The number -0-.

          • December 6, 2012 at 5:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            Sargent, we are well into negative job growth in this country as layoffs are announced almost daily. Citigroup is laying off 11,000. Oops, where did all that TARP money go? Small business will lay off to keep from dealing with Obamacare. More people have filed for Social Security Disability this year than ever. That is the new scam since the 99 weeks of unemployment are used up. Our true rate of unemployment is pushing 20%, yet the libs keep saying the private sector is doing “just fine”. This is doublespeak to the max degree.

          • December 6, 2012 at 6:33 pm
            FFA says:
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            We would also need to factor in the Underemployment such as what is taking place in Cedar Falls IA.

            So long as Bain is working within the Law, the criticism should go to the law makers for allowing / not changing the laws.

          • December 7, 2012 at 8:57 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 7, 2012 at 12:06 pm
            FFA says:
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            1) NAFTA gone! I understand that Rahm had a big hand in that.
            2) China Trade Agreement GONE!
            3) Tax the crap out of every company shipping jobs to the Mid East.

            Short explanation- close down every advantage to anyone shipping jobs out of America. We were once a self sufficent nation. We can do that again.

            I’ll support any one – either side of the table – that has a real plan to bring jobs back home.

            Our Olympic Uniforms made in China???? What the hell was that? Made in America used to mean something.

          • December 7, 2012 at 12:15 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 7, 2012 at 1:07 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, call me anything you want. If its Pro Job creation, then I am. LOUD and PROUD – bring our jobs back home.

          • December 7, 2012 at 1:19 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 7, 2012 at 1:23 pm
            FFA says:
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            Too bad the people in Congress & the White House done see the need to make it happen.

          • December 7, 2012 at 1:25 pm
            Libby says:
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          • December 7, 2012 at 3:20 pm
            FFA says:
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            They are telling what employers can / cant do with health benefits.

          • December 7, 2012 at 3:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            Well, by all means, let’s tax/penalize companies that take business off-shore. The Republicans would roll over an die before letting that happen. But I’m all for it.

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:33 pm
            FFA says:
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            I could give a rats a@# what the politicians do. None of them are getting people back to work at a rate in which needs to happen. Lets can them all and see how they like sticking their hand out. Let them deal with the govts red tape paper work crap. Subject them all to oBama Care.

            See how they like living in the world they helped create.

      • December 6, 2012 at 5:06 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        I guess the 8% unemployment rate that Obama puts up and the 23 million job loss he puts up makes him better than Romney. Obama could not and has not even run a lemonade stand.

        • December 6, 2012 at 5:19 pm
          Agent says:
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          Sargent, I saw where one of your City Councilwomen asked Obama to bail Detroit out since they supported him 75% in the election. We aren’t supposed to look at Detroit as one of the most corrupt cities in the country who blew through all their Stimulus money with little to show for it. They are blighted, ran off most of the real taxpayers and we are supposed to continue to fund them so they can waste even more. Is the check in the mail?

          • December 6, 2012 at 5:33 pm
            Sargent Major says:
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            What a joke. JoAnn Watson wants an I quote” Some bacon” for the overwheming voter support for Obama” How about this one- She said ” When Jimmy carter was elected the honorable Mayor Coleman Alexander Young went to Detroit and brought back the bacon for supporting carter. Thats how it supposed to work. Quid pro quo.

            What an idiot. There has been billions pis**d away on Detroit and between crooked mayors, crooked councilmen, crooked contractors and lazy no good deadbeats the city is a wreck. has been and will be until they clean house. They currently have Dave Bing as Mayor. I like Bing. He was a succesful businessman here in Detroit, Former hall of fame NBA player for the Pistons and has a great love for the city. He is smart and level headed. So what does the city council want to do? They want him out of office and want to recall him just like they did Dennis Archer. Just google Jo Ann Watson and watch the video for some hilarious liberal dribble. real great bunch of Libs here!

            PS the city will have to file for bankruptcy by the end of the month. Whay they don’t want to turn control over to he state.
            Ha

          • December 6, 2012 at 5:53 pm
            Agent says:
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            Sargent, I like Bing too, but he is fighting a losing battle with these lib council people. They want the unending gravy train that they can scarf up, all for political support. After all, Obama owes them, right? Is Detroit too big to fail? I am not sure the State of Michigan coming to the rescue is the answer since they have issues of their own. I understand there is a movement going on up there to make the state a right to work state. I don’t think that will go over well with the unions, will it?

          • December 6, 2012 at 6:40 pm
            FFA says:
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            Sarge – See Scott Walker Gov of WI. Loud mouth dems bashed on him and the silent majority told them to shut their mouths.
            Walkers the man. Hopefully, in Detroit, the silent majority will speak loud and clear like they did for Walker.

            We can argue about which is worse – the entire state of IL politicians or Detroit politicians. Sad argument – who has the most crooks. I guess I dnot want to argue about that.

          • December 6, 2012 at 10:02 pm
            Sargent Major says:
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            Agent, The vote total was 75% of all of Wayne county which includes many other cities besides the city of Detroit. Actually the vote in Wayne county excluding Detroit for Romney was higher but the Actual City of detroit was about 93% for Obozo and about 7% for Romney

        • December 7, 2012 at 2:59 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, I seem to remember that the NLRB telling Boeing they couldn’t open a new factory in SC even though they didn’t lay off anyone in Seattle. After a huge battle with the NLRB and unions, SC got their factory and the right to work employees got good jobs out of it. Don’t give me that bunk and expect me to believe it. Businesses are being intimidated by government every day of the week. Just look at what EPA does to shut down coal and energy. WV, Ohio & Pennsylvania is being decimated as we speak.

          • December 7, 2012 at 3:10 pm
            Libby says:
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        • December 7, 2012 at 4:30 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, since you now fancy yourself as a Libertarian and said that self sufficiency is a tenet, they also believe in very limited government instead of the huge Federal Bureaucracy we have now that you have supported the past 4 years. Are you having another one of those conflicted moments? We would like for you to make up your mind and be consistent as I, FFA, Sargent and many others have been on this blog.

          • December 10, 2012 at 8:13 am
            Libby says:
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            Consistent is another word for “stubborn” which you definitely are. I much prefer to question and change position if I discover information that makes sense instead of digging my heels in to maintain a position that no longer makes sense.

          • December 10, 2012 at 9:38 am
            Agent says:
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            Libby, It seems to us that you take stubborness to a new level for the past few years. Everyone from Bob, me, Sarah, CT Agent, FFA, Sargent, Cheetoh and others have tried to educate you about the fallacy of your arguments, but you persist in believing the Progressive dogma which is ruining the country. You seem to have only one ally in the sarcastic man from another planet who is famous for blaming all conservatives going back to Reagan. Conservatives aren’t the ones who brought ruin on this country. I think deep down you know where the blame lies.

          • December 10, 2012 at 9:47 am
            Libby says:
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            While I totally appreciate all the “education” you all have tried to give me, I think I will stick to my own methods and make up my own mind.

            You are so one-track, Agent. I try to be a little more open minded. My support of Obama has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with social issues. I don’t know how many times I have to say that to get it through that thick head of yours.

            If the right had had a decent candidate that did not go against all of my core societal beliefs, I would have given them consideration.

            Instead you present the country with another carbon-copy of yourselves. A bigoted, elitist, white, morally-superior, male. I will never vote for someone like that no matter what the economy does.

            So, please, stop your preaching at me. I’m perfectly capable of making up my own mind. Judging by the election results, I seem to have the majority on my side.

          • December 11, 2012 at 10:13 am
            CT Agent says:
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            Libby–I thought your weren’t a fan of vitriole? You spew it out in every one of your posts…

        • December 10, 2012 at 4:50 pm
          Agent says:
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          Actually FFA, we do have to care what the politicians do since it impacts us, the People. I would love to put most of them on the unemployment line. It wouldn’t really affect their lifestyle much since they get their lifetime pension, health insurance and get to keep their campaign donations. I had to laugh when I saw the article about wonderful Elizabeth Warren, who unseated Scott Brown in the Senate race in Taxachussetts. She raised $42 million for her race, the most of any Senatorial race and managed to spend more than she took in so she is asking for support to retire her debt. She is a good liberal politician and an imitation Indian. She should fit right in when she takes office.

      • December 10, 2012 at 2:47 pm
        Trump says:
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        Center–when are you going to read (and comprehend) the history of Bain Capital and Mitt Romney? Maybe once you’ve done that, you’ll realize how foolish you sound when you post something like that.

      • December 11, 2012 at 2:26 pm
        Bob says:
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        Center point:

        I call B.S. Romney and Bain did not kill jobs. Staples president gave him 100% of the success of Staples. Bain came in and restructured companies which were ALREADY failing. That’s what you don’t get.

        He saved hundreds of companies, thousands of jobs, and created millions in capital. Of which, if you did a little research the CEO is not nearly as over paid as you think. Romney used to get about 1% of the total revenues from the company he owned. $1 million out of 100 million.

        Papa John’s owner has the same ratio for his income. 1%.

        This “rich destroy jobs” thing has to end. It’s pure bull. In order to get an income of $1 million you usually have to have a considerable company in your backing, AKA Jobs.

  • December 6, 2012 at 3:06 pm
    Bluemax says:
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    If your employee count is reduced to under 50 and a subsidiary is created to hire those otherwise laid off have you met the legal requirements of the law? If someone is going to charge me an extra 5% to cover health costs they are now at a disadvantage compared to those who are not charging. Quite a slippery slope.

    • December 6, 2012 at 3:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      Bluemax, you may have hit on a workable idea. If a business has 100 employees, he could create a couple of subsidiaries and stay under the 50 mandate. Of course, his accounting costs would double and doing business with customers might be more difficult. I wonder what kind of competitive disadvantage employers will face if they are competing with companies who don’t have Health Insurance. They will not have the overhead of this poor guy who is footing the bill for Healthcare.

    • December 6, 2012 at 3:19 pm
      Boca Condo King says:
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      Bluemax, the answer is yes so long as the company does a few things right. http://www.empleasemarketplace.com is my website and I think the PEO/Employee Leasing world is going to explode.

      Consider this, a worker who is paid $10.00 an hour working under 30 hours a week, is $10.00 an hour. If that worker is given 31 hours, the cost rises to 11.24$ an hour for the same worker.

      A business with 49 workers pays no penalty. A business with 51 workers pays a $42,000.00 penalty.

      We have smart people running companies, they are going to do the smart thing.

    • December 7, 2012 at 3:27 pm
      Agent says:
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      Libby, had you read my post with any comprehension, you would have seen that I was criticizing government for interfering with Boeing on where they could locate a new factory. I know that is too much info for you to absorb. Boeing was not moving the plant to China like GM and GE have done. They were actually creating jobs in America in the great state of South Carolina. I think they created about 6,000 jobs there as a matter of fact. Business would not have a problem in creating jobs in this country if we didn’t have such an unfriendly government and actually had some incentives to do so.

      • December 7, 2012 at 3:30 pm
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  • December 6, 2012 at 3:11 pm
    Harry Phillips says:
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    We don’t have to read it just “pass it then we will find out what is in it”. Nancy Pelosi’s response, of course she is the 9th highest earner in the Senate. Something like 9 million per year. Plus all the benefits that she and others like her have voted for themselves.They do not have to live by these absurd laws. Reduce their pensions,put them on Medicare,and see how they react. The taxes and expenses associated with this health bill will not reduce the cost of healthcare. Just limit what is available to the general public. Can you say HEALTH PANELS, not doctors, restricted and controlled healthcare determined by political hacks. Can you say socialism? do you know what it means. put simply loss of Freedom.

  • December 6, 2012 at 3:25 pm
    Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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    Here’s another unintended (not thought of) consequence. Each state gets to set their baseline coverage policy. All others policies must meet that baseline to be acceptable and avoid the penalty. Most baselines will be low end coverage and higher deductibles and co-insurance.
    This will give employers an opportunity (excuse) to lower coverage for employees and save money on benefits. In this economy, which could get worse if congress doesn’t get there butts in gear, the employees have little choice but to accept a decrease in benefits.

    • December 6, 2012 at 4:02 pm
      Agent says:
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      The comments on this article re-inforce my belief that this is a huge boondoggle of unintended consequences. When the government intrudes into the market and mandates and dictates, that is when things go south and make no bones about it, it will go south as thousands of employers make very difficult decisions on whether to lay off, reduce hours, drop coverage entirely so they can survive. Congress and the administration made sure they weren’t subject to it and basically threw business and individuals under the bus as they have done repeatedly. After all this great news, we have all the new taxes kicking in 1-1-13. Aren’t they great?

  • December 6, 2012 at 4:03 pm
    FFA says:
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    Cap Planet & Libby are quiet. They should be. They voted for killing jobs and business. Cant really “blame them” as they just baught into egobamanmics. More victims of Il Politics.

    • December 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, Libby has had a couple of forays into the discussion, but her joined at the him mate Planet seems to have vanished. Perhaps he got his pink slip and a cardboard box to put his personal belongings in on his way out the door due to downsizing. I noticed that wonderful Citigroup is laying off 11,000 employees to try to get a handle on operating expenses. Could Obamacare be one of the factors in that decision? By the way, they got a huge bailout when they got into trouble over the sub prime mess. I guess all that money just went so far and they are looking into the abyss now. Perhaps they can get a tax credit for hiring back next year if they straighten up.

      • December 6, 2012 at 5:06 pm
        FFA says:
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        I think Cap Planet came to the reality of the situation in a different forum. The Article stating Cedar Falls was cutting hours of 59 people to get under the 30 hours. When things hit close to home like they are for him, tends to take on new meanig. Its not chicken little any more. Its his neighbors and his clients.

        Libby even came to the realization that this may not be a wonderfull as she initally thought.

        When the brick of reality hits you in the head, it hurts.

        • December 7, 2012 at 10:30 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          • December 7, 2012 at 12:12 pm
            FFA says:
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            its a state university. It has nothing to do with Local Muni Finances. None of the workers on campus would be employed by the local Muni.

            The fall out is getting close to hme for you.

          • December 7, 2012 at 2:46 pm
            Agent says:
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            What are they teaching at this struggling college, Keynsian big spending Economics? Perhaps they are mired in debt due to big salaries and benefit packages, much like the Chicago school system which is having their own problems. Schools that have good athletic programs depend on the revenue sports brings in. Cut that back or out and it is a sure recipe for bankruptcy.

      • December 6, 2012 at 10:07 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        He probably had his hours cut to 25 and had to leave his company computer behind

        • December 7, 2012 at 10:31 am
          Captain Planet says:
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      • December 7, 2012 at 8:26 am
        Libby says:
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        • December 7, 2012 at 12:22 pm
          FFA says:
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          I do not relish the idea of any one losing their jobs. I have felt the ripple effect of business closing down and it has hurt. I have also felt the impact of Gov Quinns Workers Comp reforms in my revenues to the agency. Another big hurt. I have to pay a Franchise Tax even though I am not a franchise.

          I have felt the pain of two grown children not being able to find jobs and had to move back home further compounding the effect by increasing expenses.

          My ideal world – ZERO Un/under employment rate. Thats what I relish. I am all for anytung that puts people back to work. I pity the people that voted for this guy and are going to lose their jobs / hours. You know my opinion on Politicians from IL. Three clips on the news last night – Beavers – Trotter & Jesse JR moving through the legal system. Beavers is the best of the bunch – income Tax Evasion. Trotter tries to bring a loaded fire arm onto a plane at Ohare. JR tries to buy the senate seat and campaign finance mis use. JR wife missed 90% of all meetings last year.

          • December 7, 2012 at 12:27 pm
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      • December 7, 2012 at 10:24 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        • December 7, 2012 at 10:27 am
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          • December 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm
            jw says:
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            Yep.

          • December 10, 2012 at 3:05 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            You mean, you were get CLOBBERED out here…

          • December 10, 2012 at 3:06 pm
            Libby says:
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            Same thing. You righties are brutal. I’ve never met a meaner group of people.

          • December 11, 2012 at 10:22 am
            CT Agent says:
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            Yes, Libby. We Righties are Big Meanies.

          • December 11, 2012 at 10:23 am
            Libby says:
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            That’s what I said.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:11 am
            CT Agent says:
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            Yes. We are Big Meanies. Liberals are Big Pansies.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:12 am
            Libby says:
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            I’d rather be a pretty flower than an asshole.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:38 am
            CT Agent says:
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            SEE!??!!! Right there! YOU resorted to name calling! I love getting under your liberal pansie skin! You? A pretty flower? Debatable, at best. A pretty flower is kind, gentle, soft, fragrant. You do not present yourself as either of those over the internet. I can just imagine what you’re like in real life..

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:50 am
            Libby says:
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            And you do? You resort to swearing and name-calling at a drop of the hat. I’m sure you hang out at the Bridgeport docks with all the sailors.

            It’s take alot more than that to get under my skin. You’re not even close, dear.

  • December 6, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    MeIsEinstein says:
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    To my employees, when that time comes my conversation with them will be very simple: “Johnny, thanks to Obama’s new policies, unfortunately we only have two options before us regarding your employment here: 1) Bring your hours down to 30 hours per week, or 2)let you go. Which one would you like Johnny?”.

    • December 6, 2012 at 4:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      Mel, it is unfortunate, but it may just come down to your two examples of difficult decisions. We are into survival mode now. I am just a fair size Independent Agent and I have noticed almost all my expenses are more than they were last year at the same time. We are going to have to make some operating changes ourselves and I hope we don’t have to lay off anyone, but the markets are not going to pay us a higher commission and we can’t count on contingency income since that can be jury rigged easily by companies to show whatever they want it to show.

      • December 7, 2012 at 8:29 am
        Libby says:
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        • December 7, 2012 at 10:06 am
          Agent says:
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          Libby, I have been an Independent Agent for over 25 years and no one watches their business any closer than I do. This is the first year I have had more revenue and less profit since I have been in business. We pay our people well and payroll is our biggest expense, but all our miscellaneous expenses are higher now as well. I disagree that I have any control over contingencies. All companies have to do is raise reserves on losses and it can easily knock out the contingency calculation. We missed contingency on one company by less than 1/2% due to claim reserves. If a company does not want to pay an agent a contingency, the agent won’t get one. Meanwhile, they tighten their underwriting to the point it is hard to write new business. I don’t need a lecture from an employee on how to run my agency.

          • December 7, 2012 at 10:20 am
            Libby says:
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          • December 11, 2012 at 9:43 am
            Sargent Major says:
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            Agent, Bingo. That is the difference betweeen libs and business ( I am not even talking aout conservatives). Libs think that business should jusy roll with the punch and hey, pay the tab. Really? that is ok as long as the libs don’t have to cut the checks. Carriers don’t always let all the profit out in one year nor do they let all the reserves out in any one year. I know I have run 4 different companies. Therefore, an agent can’t expect that a big contingency will come each year. If they do they are exceptional and many agents generally spread the wealth, we do.

      • December 10, 2012 at 3:08 pm
        CT Agent says:
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        And, the REAL damage that this president is causing is just beginning! He has nothing to lose now because he doesn’t have another election to worry about. One would think that we will be better off once he’s out of office but then we will most likely have Hilary to contend with…

        • December 10, 2012 at 4:24 pm
          Agent says:
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          I wouldn’t worry too much about Hilary CT. She messed in her kit about Benghazi reading the WH line. I understand she will be testifying soon. I wonder who she will throw under the bus. She also needs major reconstructive surgery from head to toe since she looks like a total hag. The last 4 years and all that travel has taken its toll.

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            You’d better worry about Hillary, Agent. She’s the next POTUS. And since when are good looks a pre-requisite for the job? I’d like to see what you look like.

        • December 12, 2012 at 11:20 am
          Agent says:
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          Sargent, We, as agents are lucky to get a contingency from carriers in most years. All it takes is a bad Auto loss or Property Loss and you are toast. We are in a weather state in Texas so -hit happens. The Agents in the DFW corridor haven’t seen many contingencies in recent years since they are in wind and hail alley. We live on our commission income and occasionally get a nice contingency from a carrier. Some of our carriers have come out with Fixed Base contingency that pays a lower percent of return, but losses are not figured in. We have gone to that on some in order to get something back. We figure something back is better than 100% of nothing.

  • December 6, 2012 at 5:27 pm
    draetish says:
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    The fact that Obama wants to tax the rich (income of $250,000 and above), proves he is against sucessful people. That really isn’t alot of money these days unless you live in a trailer. What did everyone in Hollywood see in him anyway?

    • December 6, 2012 at 6:19 pm
      Ins Guy says:
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      Is that actually a fact or just political diatribe? Do you really believe that he really wants to tax raise the rate for himself and all the talking heads in Washington?

      He’s going to continue to ride the backs of the low & low-middle income folks.

      Maybe they’ll give themselves a 20% pay cut, and change to real-world benefits & pensions, too! While they’re at it, maybe they can reduce their work-force (all the bureaucrats) by oh IDK 30,000?

    • December 7, 2012 at 8:52 am
      Libby says:
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      • December 10, 2012 at 3:15 pm
        CT Agent says:
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        Libby. You are so brainwashed. Your rhetoric above states that the election was not about the economy. Well, gee…if that’s the case, don’t you think it should have been? I mean, the hole that this president has dug us into is impossible for us to get out of! I care about all people, ALL people, but without a good, strong, sustainable economy, WE ALL LOSE! That includes you and your liberal buddies, Libby.

        • December 10, 2012 at 3:20 pm
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        • December 10, 2012 at 3:36 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey CT, Didn’t you know that Libby has converted over to the Libertarian Party and now believes in limited government? This is after 4 years of her supporting her President in ever expanding government, wasteful spending and lack of understanding what makes the economy tick. She has been gleeful along with her joined at the hip mate Planet to eagerly follow this President into the abyss of the fiscal pit like lemmings. Then, they can blame it all on Bush and the Republicans. We are not being served well by the Democrats or the RINO’s and unfortunately, we will all suffer the consequences of their actions or lack therof.

          • December 10, 2012 at 3:38 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent, why don’t you quit focusing on bashing me and go sell some insurance? That ought to solve all your problems.

          • December 10, 2012 at 3:50 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            And then, that will put us in the not-so-favorable light of having to tell them “We told you so”..

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:06 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not so favorable? You’d LOVE to be able to tell us that. Instead, we are the ones with a W. Sour grapes is not becoming on you, CT.

          • December 11, 2012 at 10:27 am
            CT Agent says:
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            No sour grapes here, Libby. I just cannot stop shaking my head in disbelief that this ass clown got re-elected by ass clowns such as yourself.

          • December 11, 2012 at 10:31 am
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            If it walks like a duck…. It’s definitely sour grapes when you have to resort to calling me an ass clown. That must be some CT slang.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:15 am
            CT Agent says:
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            Yes, Libby. You NEVER resort to name callling, do you? You are so perfect in a totally messed up world..how do you do it, Libby? Do you have a spare pair of rose colored glasses that you can send me?

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:19 am
            Libby says:
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            You so aggressive towards me. Do you secretly want to be a man? Because you try so hard to act like one.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:44 am
            CT Agent says:
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            Trust me, Libby. I am not aggressive towards you in any way other than to try to get you to open your eyes and your mind to what this president is doing to our country. You’re damned right I’m gonna get aggressive when it comes to the salvation of my country. You on the other hand are OK with the unemployment rate, the TRILLIONS of dollars of debt we are in now and the TRILLIONS more we will be in soon. And this knucklehead thinks that raising taxes is the answer. That will touch about (*).0005% of out debt (*.0005 is a ficticious number but you get my point…I would hope.)

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:51 am
            Libby says:
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            CT, you will never convince me of anything by speaking to me the way you do. When have you ever belittled anyone or insulted them over to your side? It’s not an effective way to persuade. I hope you sell insurance better than your political views.

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:04 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            The answer to your question is obvious, Libby. Just like you virtual high-five the lefties on your side, I don’t belittle or insult anyone on my side because I happen to agree with everything they say! One thing that you and I do agree on though, is neither of us will ever agree with the other’s point of view.

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:08 pm
            Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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            What is an “ass-clown”?
            CT, you’re letting Libby get you off track. Most Dems play victim or switch the subject when they are losing.

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm
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            CT, so you are admitting that you attack me just for fun and that you are not, in all honesty, trying to get me to “open your eyes and your mind to what this president is doing to our country.” You’re Mean Spice and have proved my point.

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            Cheetoh – way to jump on the Bully Bandwagon. I’m really proud ‘a ya.

          • December 11, 2012 at 2:39 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            Libby, I am not attacking you…for fun, or otherwise. You shouldn’t take my suggesting to you to open your eyes and mind as an attack. It’s a constructive suggestion and one that may actually make you change your way of thinking. However, with you and many others like you, you are so far gone up the creek called Obama, that there is no return. Obama could be standing over a bloodied, dead body with the bloody knife in his hand, and you people would defend him, saying he didn’t do it! That might be a strong analogy, but that is exactly what he is doing to our country. He is killing it, and you all defend that. That to me is an attack–on me and my country. And, by the way–Bridgeport is out of the way for me. I’m a little further up the Gold Coast.

          • December 11, 2012 at 2:59 pm
            Libby says:
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            Don’t try to sugarcoat it, CT. You attack, bash, and insult every chance you get. And all because I don’t agree with your outlook on life.

            I happen to think Obama has done an adequate job with what was handed to him in 2008. I don’t think he walks on water, but I don’t blame the current financial crises on him at all. That was in full swing when he was sworn into office.

            We have not rebounded from this recession as quickly as we all hoped, but there were other factors at play that affected our progress. He now has four years to put the country on the right path and you can either stand on the sidelines calling him an ass clown or you can offer some productive criticism.

            How you react will say alot about your character.

          • December 11, 2012 at 4:29 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            blah blah blah, Libby. We haven’t rebounded as fast as we hoped???That’s LAUGHABLE!! We haven’t rebounded AT ALL!! Just whom is he going to blame during THIS four years for the LAST four years?? Thanks for the laugh. Good night.

    • December 7, 2012 at 10:35 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      • December 10, 2012 at 4:14 pm
        Agent says:
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        Right on CT. Actually, I don’t want the fiscal cliff to happen since it will impact us all, but there is a limit to what this country can take and I think it is approaching rapidly. Our politicians should be introduced to tar & feathers, rails by the folks soon. They are responsible to allowing the greatest country the world has ever known to sink into mediocrity and debt that we may not be able to recover from. This country has been resilient in the past from inept politicians and recovered from it. This time, it will be harder since there are so many stupid people out there who are true believers in Socialism and all the problems it brings on.

      • December 11, 2012 at 4:45 pm
        Agent says:
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        Good one CT. Remember when the left was saying the recession was over and we have had several recovery summers with no recovery. The new normal in this country is to be stuck in this Progressive rut with no action other than more of the same. Raise taxes, no cuts in the drunkalolic spending and “hope” it will all come out right in the end. The fiscal cliff is fast approaching. Where is the leadership to do the right thing for us? If Libby is waiting for Obama to do the right thing for America, she will be waiting for a long time. He has a different agenda than that and he proves it daily.

    • December 7, 2012 at 2:21 pm
      jw says:
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      Where do you live? Because, I do not want to live there if $250K isn’t a lot of money. I live in a very nice house in a lovely neighborhood and our combined income is considerably less than $250K.

      • December 10, 2012 at 9:21 am
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        • December 10, 2012 at 9:24 am
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  • December 6, 2012 at 6:44 pm
    FFA says:
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    If he were actually a firm believer in OBama Care, he and all of congress would go on it.

    Actions vs words.

  • December 6, 2012 at 7:56 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Companies with employee count problems due to Obozocare should consider a separately owned staffing PEO. Not common ownership as the primary company but the company could be the only customer. In other words the company really owns it. You split the employees so that some depatments go to the PEO and some will not. Service, issuance, processing etc go to the staffing peo. The number of hours available to them will be 25 to 27.5 and no paid overtime. They get paid by the peo and thecompany doesn’t have an over 50 employee count problem. Some of those people going to the peo might be full time but will either have to accept part time work or leave for other employment. Unfortunately this is business whih is not a philanthropic organization. If it passes leagal muster you won’t have a problem with employee count and have the ability to grow and expand. Just a thought.

    • December 7, 2012 at 9:06 am
      Libby says:
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      You can not legally refuse to pay workers overtime. If they work it, they must be paid. You can refuse to authorize overtime, but you can’t refuse to pay if the hours are put in.

      • December 10, 2012 at 9:35 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        You can if they are part time and overtime is not authoized

        • December 11, 2012 at 8:27 am
          Libby says:
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          Isn’t that what I just said?

    • December 7, 2012 at 9:31 am
      Agent says:
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      Hey Sargent, I have a son in law who operates a staffing company and he is going like gangbusters. Companies are struggling with employees and benefits so they would rather use “Temps” for special projects rather than having full time employees. It is all about the bottom line and staying in business. They just lease employees when they are busy and need the extra help and when it is slow, they don’t.

      • December 7, 2012 at 1:10 pm
        FFA says:
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        So, thats where we are headed – a Temp work force.

        • December 11, 2012 at 10:17 am
          Sargent Major says:
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          FFA, I would say that, especially for small business that we are headed for a part time workforce. Unfortunate, because we need fulltime, fair wage jobs that are unencumbered by BAD governmental legislation.

      • December 10, 2012 at 9:43 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        I agree with a couple of the other posts here. PEO’s should be busy going forward whether they are owned or hired. I like the idea of owning one even if it is only for your own business. Get the right staff and they can even pick up outside business and become more of a profit center.

        Special project temps work out well if you have a good sreening staff to make sure they are quality temporary hires. Get them in get the project done and then keep the names for future use. We have a great list of retired insurance professionals who like to make some extra money. They are well experienced, have special talents (whether underwriting, claims or loss control, for example) and are good with customers. I can pay them, they do great work and paid on a contract basis, 1099.

  • December 6, 2012 at 9:44 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Agent,
    Here is the link for the JoAnn Watson video. She is the Detroit Democrat, liberal councilwomen who wants Obama tom “Bring the Bacon to Detroit” This would be hilarious if it wasn’t for he fact that this is a real example of Obama;s core support.

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20264712/detroit-councilwoman-to-obama-we-supported-you-now-support-us

    • December 7, 2012 at 9:37 am
      Agent says:
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      Yes, she looks like a real sweetheart and a fine representative of the people. Actually, I think it is a violation of law to ask for a bailout just for political considerations, but that doesn’t seem to bother her any.

    • December 7, 2012 at 9:51 am
      Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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      During the debates, didn’t Obama take credit for already saving Detroit? What’s she crowing about, Detroit is already saved!

      • December 7, 2012 at 12:19 pm
        Agent says:
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        Saved for a few more weeks until all the money is gone from the coffers. They will be following several cities in California who have declared bankruptcy due to their excessive spending on entitlements for city workers.

        • December 10, 2012 at 9:58 pm
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          He dd not save Detroit. He did bail out GM and Chrysler and I believe Chrysler has paid back the money with interest. GM different story. Anyway, Chrysler is in Auburn Hills Michigan, not Detroit. They have plants in Detroit so that would have been a big loss but most of those workers don’t live in the city of Detroit Anyway. GM’s headquarters is downtown on the river in the ReCen. The vast majority of their employees live somewhere else but the city of Detroit. What lives in the city of Detroit, for the most part (Not all but the majority) are people that suck the life out of the city and the economy. They are the miscreants who take from anyone and everyone they can including people like JoAnn Watson a councilwomen. She recently was caught cheating (for the past 12 years) on her property taxes. She had someone in the property tax office file a frm that said her property was half its size and a vacant lot. Her property tax went from probably around 3500 tom 4000 dollars to 50 to 65 dollars and that is what she paid for the past 12 years before she got caught. When questioned she said ” I pay what they bill me”.

  • December 7, 2012 at 9:32 am
    Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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    In today’s newspapers, Obama says that once we settle or fall off the financial cliff (Budget), his next issue is immigration. I would have thought fixing or stimulating the economy would be the next issue after trying to pass a budget. I take this as a big FU to our citizens who need jobs, and our small businesses trying to keep their doors open. I would have thought that Obama would stop campaigning this 4 years and get to work.

    • December 7, 2012 at 9:41 am
      Agent says:
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      Cheetoh, This President has never stopped being in campaign mode since that is all he has ever done. He has no clue how to negotiate in good faith a deal that will fix the financial cliff and prefers to say it is his way or the highway. He will then blame Republicans & Bush for the financial straits the country is in. I predict the spineless Republicans will knuckle under once again and we will suffer the consequences.

    • December 7, 2012 at 9:53 am
      Libby says:
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      • December 7, 2012 at 10:13 am
        Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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        The Economy, or lack thereof, is the biggest issue facing our great nation today. I suspect Obama and the dems are dodging it because they don’t have a clue what to do. He is supposed to serve the people, and the people want the economy stimulated.
        I would not have brought it up if he said he would tackle economic issues once the budget is agreed upon.
        How in the world can you relate taking care of immigration to improving the economy? It’s a drain.

        • December 7, 2012 at 10:23 am
          Libby says:
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          • December 7, 2012 at 10:53 am
            Agent says:
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            I remember him saying in his first term that the first thing he thought of after waking in the morning and when he goes to bed at night was the economy. Is that why he focused for two years on Obamacare instead of working to restore the economy? What would have been wrong with focusing on the economy until it recovered strength before tackling Healthcare? Why pass a bill which is sure to kill jobs and weaken the economy if he is so focused on improving it? This man really doesn’t want a strong economy. Everything he does drags it down.

        • December 7, 2012 at 10:47 am
          Agent says:
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          Cheetoh, I don’t think we want the economy stimulated the way it was the last time. A trillion dollars later, no shovel ready jobs and no incentives for Small Business to hire and expand. In fact, with Obamacare kicking in with its round of new taxes, business will continue to not hire or expand. The only jobs this man has created are government jobs which are a drain on the economy. One of his lieutenants, our wonderful former Speaker of the House famously said that unemployment checks are a stimulus to the economy. How profound of her.

          • December 7, 2012 at 11:23 am
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          • December 7, 2012 at 11:25 am
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          • December 7, 2012 at 12:04 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes, you and Libby are hilarious allright. Spoken like a true Keynsian Progressive Liberal who has no clue what makes this country successful. Why don’t we just make everyone unemployed and send them a check so they can stimulate the economy by buying their neccessities like beer and cigarettes? You have about the same IQ as Pelosi. Her excuse is Botox brain, what is yours? I picture you and Libby as one of the millions of lemmings following your President right over the fiscal cliff with no thought of what is at the bottom of the pit. I am afraid you will not like what you see when you get there.

          • December 7, 2012 at 12:13 pm
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          • December 7, 2012 at 12:46 pm
            Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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            That socialist economics. Everybody gets the same amount. Nonsense!
            People collecting unemployment use it for necessities to get by, like rent and food and car payments and insurance. Working people are stimulating the economy as they have discretionary money to spend. Jobs should be #1 priority, not letting illegals stay and go on government support or better known as democrat recruiting.

          • December 7, 2012 at 1:13 pm
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      • December 7, 2012 at 10:37 am
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        • December 7, 2012 at 1:02 pm
          Agent says:
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          Cheetoh, We need more tax payers, not tax takers. Clueless Planet and Libby will never get that concept. They are sitting in their little cubbeyhole thinking the private sector is doing “just fine” like their Messiah. Just raise taxes on Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and the country will right itself. Redistribute the wealth and make everyone equally poor is a plan, right? Afterall, Chavez has a great economy so we should be like Venezuela after the fiscal cliff happens in a few short weeks.

          • December 7, 2012 at 1:17 pm
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          • December 7, 2012 at 1:33 pm
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        • December 7, 2012 at 4:55 pm
          FFA says:
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          Of COurse. The Buck stops at the top. He is the Captian of this ship. If he does something right, I’ll pat him n the back.

          • December 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, When or if this President does something that will benefit the American People and Small Business, I will be happy to compliment him. However, I have not seen anything to congratulate him for in 4 years. After the first 6 months in office, I knew it was all over for us. Planet is incorrect that Reaganomics did not work. Reagan cut taxes, created private sector jobs, increased revenue to the government, but Tip O’Neil and his Democratic cohorts welched on spending cuts and kept on their merry way of running up the deficit. In fact, every Congress has done the same thing and that is why it is at the staggering $16 Trillion debt. What we have now is trickle up poverty as practiced by this sitting President and a fiscal cliff awaits at the first of the year.

        • December 10, 2012 at 3:23 pm
          CT Agent says:
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          Obama would have one of his minions run into the burning building, Cappie Dick. He thinks he’s too important to get soot on his suit…LOL!!! Soot on his suit!

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:39 pm
            Agent says:
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            Remember the photo op with him and Christie when Sandy hit? He was going to make “sure” the red tape would be cut and those people got the immediate aid they needed. Two months later and there is still a lot of red tape and electrical workers from other states were told unless they were in the wonderful union, they couldn’t help so many returned home. Now, Congress has to fund the FEMA for a $60 Billion loss since their coffers were dry.

        • December 10, 2012 at 10:05 pm
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          Well Obozo is not going to run into a burning building. He will have Boehner or McConnell run in the building, save the kids then he will blame the fire on them, take pictures with the kids and claim it was his policies that saved them.

          • December 11, 2012 at 2:42 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            LOL, SargentMajor! Good one!

    • December 7, 2012 at 12:27 pm
      FFA says:
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      Jobs should be #1. Screw the fed employees – dont pay congress men/women & scre paying OBama.
      Screw them all!

      • December 7, 2012 at 12:37 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, I hear they have special deals on Tar, Feathers, Rails, torches and pitchforks at Lowe’s.

        • December 7, 2012 at 1:27 pm
          FFA says:
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          Probably all made in China or Mexico. When I call to complain about the quality level, I’ll have to talk to someone in the Mid East thats ducking bombs.

          • December 7, 2012 at 1:39 pm
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          • December 7, 2012 at 3:56 pm
            Agent says:
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            One time, I called one of my companies who decided to outsource inquiries and I got this woman from India who could barely speak English. I had to ask her to transfer me to someone in the US to answer my question. I also had a session with my marketing rep from that company. They changed it to American employees. I am sure the company thought they could save some money outsourcing to a computer rep in India. I can only imagine the frustration of an insured who is trying to talk to these foreigners. Are we screwed up as a country or what?

          • December 7, 2012 at 4:10 pm
            FFA says:
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            I dont want to see Walmart go by the boards. They employ too many poeple in the area. I would like to see Sam get away from China manufacturers.

        • December 7, 2012 at 1:41 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          • December 10, 2012 at 10:14 am
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            FFA – I hear you. I don’t want unemployed either. But, we’re going to keep getting cheap Chinese crap that lasts maybe 2 years if we keep voting with our dollars that way. And, Walmart is the largest distributor of it. Sam’s Club used to have tons of American-made products. I think Sam Walton would be pi$$ed if he saw what was going to and from the shelves of the stores he created. Not to mention how the employee force is treated.

            In general, something has to give. “Made in Amercia” doesn’t seem to mean as much to people as it used to. Such as evidenced by the 5 who have thumbed me down on my post above when I ask if it would be great if we could get more people into stores marketing and selling American-made products.

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:47 pm
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            People I know that work at either Sams or Walmart ar happy to have their jobs. No one thinks its a career. Its better then not working even when it means giving up a higher unemployment check. In todays world, its easier to get a better job then it is to get a job.

      • December 7, 2012 at 2:17 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, What can you tell us about the latest Illinois scandal with the honorable Donne Trotter, State Senator? It seems he was a big anti-gun advocate and he was arrested at O’Hare carrying a .25 caliber Beretta in his carry on. Oops! It is not wise trying to carry guns onto planes the last time I checked. Talk about hypocrisy, he takes it to a new level. I understand he was running for Jr’s seat. After he clears this up, he should be a shoo in to get elected. What a worthy replacement, right?

        • December 7, 2012 at 3:29 pm
          FFA says:
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          Business as usual in Il politics. Says he forgot it was in there. Mel Reynolds, a convicted sex offender has also tossed his name in the ring. Beavers trial starting up now. Another senator (I forgot his name already) is on trial for taking Bribes. Say he was set up.
          Meanwhile in Dixon IL, they are selling off the assets of the Comptroller trying to recoup the Tax Payors money.
          Just another day. I dont like winning arguments like this. Sorry Sarge. Wish I could conceede. But these jack a*& keep making your Detroit people look like saints.

          We may be having a lull in the action as we dont have a Federal Prosecutor in Chicago right now. Yes guys, this could be the quiet time of the year for corrupt politicians. You know Fitzgerald wants to know what OBama had to do with the Senate seat. Too bad he retired.

          • December 8, 2012 at 1:06 pm
            FFA says:
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            Per last nights news -
            Trotter got him self appointed at a Local Security firm so he could get a carry & conceal permit. He stated that he left work at the security firm and went to the air port forgetting that he had his loaded gun with him.
            When the reporter asked the owner of the firm, the owner would neither confirm or deny that Trotter actually works there, just that he is appointed.
            According to the news report, this firm has many Il politicians appointed for the same reason – A conceal & carry permit but the appointees never actually draw a pay check or work. This firm does contribute to political campaigns. This form has a security contract renewing with the City of Chicago Library District for $735K to provide security to the Libraries.
            He has his address on the permit as his office in Springfield, not his residence on the south side.
            This was the local CBS news, Channel 2 in Chicago.

            Beavers, Trotter, JR and that other yahoo that took the bribe are all Democrats. Not saying all Democrats in IL are crooks, but the ones getting caught are all dems.

            This was all reported by the local news and I have injected nothing on my opinion.

  • December 10, 2012 at 10:10 am
    Agent says:
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    Sorry about your Bears FFA. It looks like the injuries have caught up with them and they are struggling. A long season and a veteran team is a sure recipe for the injuries mounting up. I still can’t believe the Cowboys pulled their game out. Mediocre for 50 minutes and good for 10 minutes but at least it was at the end of the game when it mattered. They were dealing with the auto accident which killed one of their linebackers and the lineman driver was drunk at the time. He received not a scratch and his friend is dead. My guess is that the driver had his seatbelt on and his buddy did not. It was just a one vehicle accident and a roll over on a service road. Stupidity on display. Second DUI for Brent, the driver. Those guys never learn. His career is over and he will serve some time for this.

    • December 10, 2012 at 10:17 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      Agent, I saw that story. What’s even worse, the players’ assoc. has a service set up so players can call and get a ride AT ANY TIME, so these types of tragedies do not occur. Horrible situation. Brent will have plenty of time to think about how he should have grabbed for his phone rather than his keys.

      • December 10, 2012 at 11:20 am
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        You are right Planet. This was Brent’s second DUI and he obviously did not learn anything from the first one. He got out on a $500,000 bond, but he faces some time for intoxication manslauter. These guys are lectured ad nausem about partying and the drivers service that is available and they do the stupid thing anyway thinking they are invincible. Unfortunately, the passenger ends up getting killed or injured severely and the drunk driver walks away uninjured. He has ruined his life over this.

        • December 10, 2012 at 11:51 am
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          Turns out the Bears are just pretenders. Cutler – 11 hurries – 11 hits at one point in the game. NOw they need to win out and Cutler got popped again yesterday. Not saying the injury, but could be another concussion as he got popped high and low and his neck kind of snapped.

          Your two guys were team mates at the UofI. They knew each others tendencies and (drinking) habits. It is a shame that the innocent is dead. Its a shame that the one that caused it walked away. My brother was involved in a fatal accident (not his fault) and he still – after 15 years has the night mares – the Look of Death he calls it. Jail is the least of his worries. Facing the family is going to be hard, but not harder then facing himself every day.

          • December 10, 2012 at 12:58 pm
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            The Cowboys have a great propensity for signing dysfunctional players. They play stupid football, live their lives stupid and bad things usually happen. They are also like little kids who need chaperoning 24/7. Dez Bryant has an entourage accompanying him around trying to keep him out of trouble. I don’t know if they will make it to the end of the season before another incident happens. He is gifted athletically, but there is not much going on between his ears.

          • December 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm
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            Sam Hurd. You dumped him in the nick of time.
            That kid in Detroit. Another knuckle head. Lovie seems to have reined in Brandon Marshal.
            None the less, you give these kids that kind of money right out of college, they have no clue.
            Last I heard, William Perry was laying brick for his father in law. Had to sell his super bowl ring.

            People should know better. When they get a pile of cash, put some away for a rainy day.

  • December 10, 2012 at 10:27 am
    Bill says:
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    I think anyone with an Obama “Forward” bumper sticker on their car should lose their jobs and have their hours reduced first!

    I would rather be a Conservative Nut Job, Than a liberal without any Nuts and without a Job!

    • December 10, 2012 at 10:30 am
      Libby says:
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      • December 11, 2012 at 11:02 am
        CT Agent says:
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        So, Libby. Do you have an Obama sticker on your BMW?

        • December 11, 2012 at 11:04 am
          Libby says:
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          If you had a BMW would you put a bumper sticker on it?

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:31 am
            CT Agent says:
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            I have a nicer car than a BMW, dear. My car makes a statement all by itself. I don’t need a bumper sticker on it.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:46 am
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            I’m happy for you, but that was my point dear. The car is too nice to put a bumper sticker on it.

        • December 11, 2012 at 12:03 pm
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          The only Obama bumper sticker I have seen in Texas is on some of those cash for clunker cars. They are usually 15 years+ old vehicles. I was hit by one of them a few years ago. No insurance, no license, ran red light and tried to flee the scene. Had a list of offenses longer than your arm. A truly fine, upstanding citizen. Only cost $57,000 on my U/M BI & PD.

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            (translation)
            Only low-life scumbags support Obama.

            And you wonder why you’re losing support for your party…

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:08 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            NOW you’re getting it, Libby!! There may be hope for you yet!!!

          • December 11, 2012 at 12:18 pm
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            Probably not. I’m just a low-life scumbag after all.

          • December 11, 2012 at 2:43 pm
            CT Agent says:
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            Don’t be so hard on yourself, Libby. You are at least not a free loader.

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:25 pm
            Agent says:
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            CT, I am so sorry to hear about the tragic shooting at Newtown, Ct. I hope you don’t have any family or friends affected by this horrible thing. Anyone doing this to a classroom of kindergarten students and teachers has to be the lowest form of life on earth. I can hear the left already saying this is further evidence we need to ban all weapons and take them away from citizens. The left will also insinuate the Tea Party is responsible as they have in the past. The news will have this on 24/7 for quite a while I’m sure with all the speculation, interviews etc., kind of like Columbine in Colorado.

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:29 pm
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            Agent, should there be an age limit on gun ownership? If a minor’s parents want their child to have a gun, they can purchase one for them, right? This guy was 20 years old with a .223. I don’t know guns, but isn’t that some sort of assault weapon? If we don’t want underage kids drinking, do we want them to have access to assault weapons? Or are there no limits on your idea of gun ownership &/or control?

          • December 17, 2012 at 8:46 am
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            CT – I thought about you all weekend. As the horror unfolded, I couldn’t stop crying. My prayers were with you and the entire town of Newtown.

    • December 10, 2012 at 12:52 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      (translation)
      Bill says, “I think there are Americans that should lose their job and/or have hours reduced.”

      Bill, no one who is performing his or her duties to an acceptable level deserves to have his/her job eliminated or reduced, regardless of politics. Your statement is stoutly un-American.

      Writing the last statement out here for us to read just tells us how much “balls” you have. Takes a lot of them to throw out an anonymous statement on an IJ blog like this, huh? No wait, we all know it’s Bill. Totally narrows it down.

      • December 10, 2012 at 1:02 pm
        Agent says:
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        So Planet, the numbers are out now on unemployment. In the past 6 months, the economy produced 847,000 jobs according to the Labor Dept. Sounds good until you look at how many of these jobs were government jobs. 621,000 government jobs out of the 847,000. They account for 73% of jobs created. This goes to show the private sector is not hiring and that is where the productive jobs are. Government jobs just add to our already staggering debt.

        • December 10, 2012 at 1:50 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Agent, also from the Dept. of Labor Statistics:

          “Secretary of Labor Hilda L. Solis issued the following statement on the November 2012 Employment Situation report released today:
          ‘Our nation added 146,000 nonfarm payroll jobs in November, while the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent, its lowest level since December 2008.

          November’s jobs report means we’ve now seen 33 straight months of private sector job growth totaling nearly 5.6 million jobs. This year, we’ve created an average of 154,000 private sector jobs a month.

          Job gains were reported last month in nearly every hiring category. Hiring in the business and professional services sector is back to its pre-recession peak. Consumer confidence is high, and Americans are shopping again. Last month retailers added 53,000 jobs in anticipation of increased holiday sales.’”

          • December 10, 2012 at 2:25 pm
            Agent says:
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            So when have we believed anything that Hilda Sois has had to say with all her manufactured numbers on unemployment. I would say we have had 33 straight months of government job creation. Apparently, you aren’t paying attention to all the layoffs that have been announced recently. Citigroup is laying off 11,000 which sticks out like a sore thumb. Company after company are laying off in anticipation of the fiscal cliff and all the new taxes kicking in 1-1-13. When Sequestration hits the Defense Industry, it is likely that upwards of 1 million will lose their job. Keep on singing that happy tune and drinking that Koolaid Planet.

          • December 10, 2012 at 2:34 pm
            Libby says:
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            I knew it! I was just waiting for you to discredit his source. Your stats are gospel, but everyone else’s are crap. You’re something else, Agent. What are you, like 100?

          • December 10, 2012 at 2:46 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, We will await your response after the fiscal cliff happens. Perhaps you and Planet may keep your job, perhaps not. In any case, this administration is not known for telling the truth about anything for the past 4 years. Gee, I wonder why they told the Defense Contractors to hold off on the pink slips until after the election.

          • December 11, 2012 at 1:56 pm
            Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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            Libby, they need you over on the AIG bailout profit of 23B comments page. People are bashing Obama and praising Bush.

      • December 17, 2012 at 10:05 am
        Agent says:
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        Libby, the more I see and hear about this case, the more troubling it becomes. This young man was very troubled and close to being autistic with little communication skills. The guns were all bought by the mother for protection????? Why would she take him to the shooting range and have him taught shooting if he was mentally imbalanced? Is that a recipe for disaster or what? For her trouble, he shot her 4 times in the head.

        • December 17, 2012 at 10:09 am
          Libby says:
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          Yes, I know. I’m not clear if he had been diagnosed with Aspergers or if she diagnosed him herself. What did this woman do for a living? Why did she own an assault rifle? I understand she was an avid shooter, but an assault rifle? And where her troubled son could get his hands on it? It is all too bizarre.

          • December 17, 2012 at 10:46 am
            Agent says:
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            I also heard he was one of those “gamers” who indulged in all the violent video games. He was probably completely decensitized to death and felt nothing as he executed all those poor babies and adults. Reports say he shot each 3 to 11 times.

    • December 10, 2012 at 5:25 pm
      Agent says:
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      You are right FFA. Hurd was another one of those Jerry Jones selections and then after a few years of failure was sent packing. At least Perry has gainful employment. OJ had to sell his Heisman Trophy to pay his legal bills. Speaking of the Heisman trophy, how about Johnny Heis”manziel”? First freshman ever to win it and he was spectacular. I wouldn’t be surprised that the Cotton Bowl will be the best of the lot this year since A&M and OU have the most explosive offenses in the country. The Notre Dame/Alabama will probably be one of those 12-9 yawners.

      • December 10, 2012 at 5:33 pm
        FFA says:
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        True Freshman winningit. Local reporters were “crabbing” the D guy should have got it. But, the kid had a great year. Good for him. Hope he dont fizzle out like most winners do. Bears had a few Hisman winners turn out to be nothing but a bust.

        Reports filtering out of Hallas Hall Cutler has whip lash.

        • December 10, 2012 at 5:50 pm
          Agent says:
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          Yes, I hope Manziel won’t let this go to his head and start reading his news clippings or let the pressure get to him next year. He is a very level headed young man with great upbringing by his parents. He is also loaded with talent and if the Aggies don’t lose too many of their key players, they should contend for a national championship next year. I don’t think Florida or LSU want any part of them again. They also have a great coach in Kevin Sumlin. He is about as innovative as it gets on offense and Manziel is the perfect operator. He had a ranked Mississippi State team down 31-3 by halftime and their tongues hanging out with that fast paced offense. They never knew what him them.

        • December 11, 2012 at 12:37 pm
          Agent says:
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          Actually, he was a redshirt fresman and just turned 20 so he has more maturity than most true freshmen. He was projected as second or third team before the season and he impressed Sumlin so much that he won the job. Give credit to the coach for recognizing a true talent. He is still a little bit slight, but should mature and get stronger by next year. He won’t be a Colin Klein running the ball, but he is a bunch quicker and can avoid a rush.

      • December 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm
        jw says:
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        Yes, the Cotton Bowl will be an excellent game. A&M is fun to watch. However, I have to disagree on your assessment of the Irish/Tide contest. Bama will put on a show. It’s all about the SEC.

  • December 10, 2012 at 4:47 pm
    Nebraskan says:
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    Agent says, “I’M ANGRY!”
    Libby says, “OMG y’all, da Bachelor starts soon, yo!”
    FFA says, “Wife, get me a beer. Now.”
    Captain Planet says, “Did you hear that?……what about that?”

    • December 10, 2012 at 5:04 pm
      FFA says:
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      I dont drink beer. I dont drink much of anything alcholic unless I am in central Wisconsin and have no place to drive (see Dallas Cowboys players). I bowl Monday Nights and wont even have a beer at bowling even though I will sit in the bar and watch the foot ball game afterwards. My wife, she dont drink at all. Someone droped off a bottle of wine for her on Saturday. I put it on the shelf next to the one they dropped off last X Mass.

      So, you missed the mark on me. I am the angry one. Cap should be angry too. Look how far he has to drive to see a pro sports team.

  • December 10, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Nebraskan,
    Still bitter from the Wisconsin beat-down in the Big 10 Championship Game, huh? Just keep putting ointment on that new mudhole those Badgers tore into you.

    • December 10, 2012 at 5:55 pm
      Agent says:
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      Planet, the Cornhuskers are insufferable fans. They like to rub it in when they win and are poor losers. I am glad they left the Big 12 and went over to the Big 10. Had they stayed in the Big 12, they would be losing 4 to 5 games per year in conference. It was just too tough for them.

      • December 11, 2012 at 8:36 am
        Nebraskan says:
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        Agent, I couldn’t agree with you more about Nebraska fans. They are probably the worst in the country when it comes to their attitude towards winning and losing. In fact, I often get into arguments over it with other so called Nebraska “fans.” I don’t care if the Huskers win or lose or even get their butts beat by Wisconsin (which is going to be the monkey on Nebraska’s back, just like Texas was). I still love them! I was ashamed of some of the stuff I read on Facebook after that game. Especially when people were saying things like, “we couldn’t stop anything.” Yeah, “we” couldn’t. Because the collective “we” are a bunch of fat butts that eat red meat the way we should be eating fruit. :) I think Bo Pelini is a pretty decent coach and fear the Nebraska “fans” are going to chase him out of town.

        BUT, do you see how you all teamed up to get mad at me?? See, we really can all be friends. :) I was just having fun with you all. Your posts give me a lot of amusement throughout what is usually a mundane work day.

        • December 11, 2012 at 8:44 am
          Nebraskan says:
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          Also, I forgot to add…I can’t say I care much for Wisconsin, but I genuinely hope they play exactly the same way they did in the Big Ten Championship game in the Rose Bowl. I’m tired of people blowing off the Big Ten. I was raised to cheer for my team first, and my conference second. No hard feelings against the Badgers.

          • December 11, 2012 at 8:57 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Nebraskan, it’s all good. We take our shots out here when we can. Personally, I do like Wisconsin. My second favorite team in the Big 10. If you’ve never partied in Madison, you may want to give it a shot and you’ll soon know why it’s my second favorite school in the conference. It’s a beautiful campus. State Street on Halloween is certainly something to experience as well.

          • December 11, 2012 at 11:25 am
            Nebraskan says:
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            Hey Captain, I have heard that Madison is a blast. Not trying to start anything, but I heard they were very unwelcome to Nebraska fans, which is unfortunate. I went to Iowa City to tailgate (for the Iowa vs Iowa State) games a few years ago and had a blast. Nebraska has built up their tailgating in recent years, but I believe they have a long way to go before they will ever have any sort of reputation. When I was in school, we just hit up the bars that were right off campus. Who is your favorite team in the Big Ten?

        • December 11, 2012 at 10:17 am
          FFA says:
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          I’m not mad. Just pointed out you missed the mark. May not be the smartest of the bunch, but I am smart enough to stay off the booze.

          My niece goes to UW Madison. asked me to a few games this year but I could not make it. Not sure how this old man would fare in that enviroment anyways. Libby nailed it in a different forum – I am tired.

      • December 11, 2012 at 8:54 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Agent, I hear you. And, they’ll go back to losing 4-5 in the Big 10 as well. Big 10 was really down this year. Nebraska just needed a mediocre team in order to rise to the top, which is exactly what we saw. Heck, the lowly Hawkeyes nearly took Big Red down. And, this is one of the worst Hawkeye teams I can remember.

        • December 11, 2012 at 10:34 am
          Agent says:
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          I saw a couple of their games this year and they looked average at best. There are about 5 or 6 teams in the Big 12 that would have handed them their head. You are right that the Big 10 is much weaker now than they were in the past. It doesn’t really matter who they send to the Rose Bowl. The left coast teams usually decimate them. Would you like playing Stanford or Oregon if you were a Big 10 team? They will get run out of the stadium.

  • December 11, 2012 at 9:56 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “You people are disgusting. You relish the idea of someone getting their hours cut or laid off because you don’t agree with their politics? Please stop with the hate. For your own sake.”

    There is no hate, this is a reality. It is business, not a social love fest because Obozo got relected. Business will work within Obozocare rules/guidelines and inside the law (Majority will anyway). If that means coming up with creative ways to not be penalized have increased expenses and create efficiency out of bad legislation, then that is what they will do. Having something shoved down your throat makes it a little more emotional for some, but for most businesses this is vanilla pitching and catching business decipline. Don’t hate the conservatives, it is business. Do you think that only Republican Conservatives run business? If you really want communism vote that way and say so. But as long as we are a capitalist country, business will work as efficiently and as profitable as possible.

    • December 11, 2012 at 10:16 am
      Libby says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • December 11, 2012 at 10:24 am
        FFA says:
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        I didnt get hate. I got that it was a 50/50 possibility as this (layoffs / underemployment) is getting close to hme for him.

        • December 11, 2012 at 10:26 am
          Libby says:
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          That’s because you don’t think that way, FFA. They do.

    • December 11, 2012 at 11:57 am
      Agent says:
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      So Sargent, what do you think about the great State of Michigan deciding to go “Right to Work”? It will be optional to belong to a union there in the future. Could we see picketing and rants at the statehouse like we saw with the teachers unions in Wisconsin? I applaud Michigan for doing the right thing. They weren’t going to attract business in that state with closed union shops. It looks like they finally used some common sense and knew this was the right thing to do even if the unions don’t like it.

  • December 11, 2012 at 10:00 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby, Here is something for you to read. This involves Alleghany Communty College. The College/university world has been staunch supporters of Obama and Obozocare. Look at what happened at Alleghany CC. his is a governmental institution, not some Republican conservative controlled evil empire. the budget for Alleghany is 2 mill off and they can’t afford Obozocare so they are cutting hours for some 400 people including adjunct professors.

    I would say that that is to bad. But also watch what you ask for

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=allegheny%20community%20college%20loses%20jobs&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEUQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidehighered.com%2Fnews%2F2012%2F11%2F20%2Fcollege-cuts-adjuncts-hours-avoid-affordable-care-act-costs&ei=eUTHULyjLoWzywGS_YDQCg&usg=AFQjCNGtD_MJk-eU9D_RumranxJVY9IoYg

    • December 11, 2012 at 10:40 am
      Agent says:
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      Sargent, this is going on all across the country. The money is just not there to fund everything. Libby & Planet paint a rosy picture about how jobs are being created across the country and reality is that businesses, colleges and many other institutions are in full survival mode and they are trying to figure out how to stay in business going forward. They will cut what needs to be cut and hope they can survive.

  • December 11, 2012 at 12:44 pm
    FFA says:
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    Libby -Allegheny Comm Colleg – is that close to home for you?
    Didnt PA vote OBama just like Iowa? Now they are being hurt by what they voted for?

    • December 11, 2012 at 12:46 pm
      Libby says:
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      It is unfortunate, FFA. I’m willing to wait and see how it all shakes out instead of working myself into a frenzy right now. It’s alot easier on my constitution.

      • December 11, 2012 at 1:04 pm
        FFA says:
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        Very Unfortunate. More people hitting the underemployment line. In my neck of the woods, a concrete contractor called earlier this week. He is shutting down. 4 more people unemployed. More ripple effect hitting me where it counts. Charge Back will happen after X Mass. At least your neck of the woods, they will still have jobs.

        Willing? You have no choice. I am being Pro Active and shifting the focus of the entire agency. People that wait and be reactive, will lose their job.

        • December 11, 2012 at 1:15 pm
          Libby says:
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          Go forward and be proactive, FFA. Do what you can. It’s out my hands for me.

          • December 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm
            Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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            You’d be joining the line if your boss ever logged into IJ and saw how much time and salary you waste in these chats!

          • December 11, 2012 at 2:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            You’d like that, wouldn’t you?

    • December 11, 2012 at 12:55 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, I am sure all those coal people in western PA, Ohio, & WV are real happy about what the EPA is doing to them. Unfortunately, there are more of the freeloaders in Philly than they are.

    • December 11, 2012 at 1:23 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      Actually, Iowa is in great shape, FFA. Tons of opportunity here for young professionals. Our numbers are all towards the tops in the nation. You should see one of our sister companies next door. They hire new people each week and are running out of room in their office that was converted from a warehouse. Forbes magazine continues to give Iowa huge praise. And, our state didn’t really see much of the recession. So, it’s no wonder we voted for President Obama. Not only that, it’s more about the social issues than the economical ones. And, our state is more socially liberal. We had marriage equality a long time ago. We had the first woman lawyer…well, here, just check this out:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLZZ6JD0g9Y

      FYI – there is some swearing in this video, so it may be NSFW. It is funny and factually accurate.

      • December 11, 2012 at 5:42 pm
        FFA says:
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        Cap, when I was in AZ back in Nov, there were two agents from IA singing about how good life was in IA. I’ve tried cracking the IA marker for Commercial, but same story as WI, I’m not a good ole boy that goes Hunting & Fishing with them. Hell (IN WI) I’m a Bear fan. Kudos ti IA for staying strong.

      • December 11, 2012 at 8:58 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        I believe Iowa is a right to work state correct/

  • December 11, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    FFA says:
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    (Not) Funny how the College & Muni (Cedar Falls) announce this and there is no back lash from the public. Olive Garden and others say they are going to do this and there are massive calls for boycots at a time when they need more business to offset this massive expense being shoved down their throats.

    Not gloatung or wishing ill on anyone, just pointing out an observation.

  • December 11, 2012 at 3:45 pm
    Agent says:
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    FFA, where is the backlash on the unions for what the thugs are doing in Michigan? It is Wisconsin all over again. Here we have a state that realized they were never going to attract new businesses with a closed union shop so they pass legislation to give an option of whether to join a union and one would think the whole world was coming to an end. The Blue States are so dysfunctional it is not funny. Glad I am in a right to work state with no state income tax and incentives for business to locate here. Whose future is brighter, Michigan or Texas?

    • December 11, 2012 at 6:14 pm
      FFA says:
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      Can you say Recall Election? I know my friends in WI can. The slient majority will speak again this time across the lake and in the UP.

    • December 12, 2012 at 8:54 am
      Libby says:
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      Wasn’t this legislation passed in a similar fashion to the way you describe Obamacare getting passed? Last minute, no debate, closed congress…

  • December 11, 2012 at 4:40 pm
    J.S. says:
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    Under the Michigan law, is it correct to say that the workers who choose not to join the union will be paid less and get a lower quality benefit package?

    If not, where would the cost savings be and how would this attract business?

    • December 11, 2012 at 4:53 pm
      Agent says:
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      JS, You need to have a fundamental understanding of how unions operate. They demand high wages, exhorbitant benefit packages, have work rules that drive employers crazy. The end result is that products made by union labor cost more and make a company less competitive. There is no evidence to suggest right to work states don’t pay competitive wages and have good benefits and working conditions. Ask any Toyota or Honda worker in the south and they are happy with their job and don’t pay union dues. The plants also turn out vehicles at a lower cost per vehicle than wonderful Michigan does. Did you know that it costs $90,000 in Michigan to turn out a $40,000 Volt? That is hardly a prescription for long term success, don’t you think?

    • December 11, 2012 at 5:47 pm
      FFA says:
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      Il is a right to work state. Chicago dont recognize it (see McCormick Place). I dont know why my local burb is getting hit hard. Judging by what has gone on in my ageny, it is govt intrusion into the private business.

      With out unions, there are no union dues. Helps offset the lower wages

    • December 11, 2012 at 9:10 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      JS, when GM and Chrysler went through BK they set up a two tier wage system. New hires get paid about 14 an hour which is far less than union wages pre BK. Non union workers could be paid less but most likely get the same benefit package. So you could say the stage was set with GM and Chrysler. Unions in non right to work states have been losing jobs over the last two decades where right to work states have added jobs year over year. Also unemployment in non RTW states runs 8 to 10% or more. RTW states about 6% or less. This will add jobs and bring business (maybe) to Michigan. Remember this state is heavy union so any busness that comes here, with numbers, risks union organizing.

  • December 11, 2012 at 5:19 pm
    J.S. says:
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    Agent. Thanks for the quick response but my question (and I am simply asking a question) doesn’t relate to union vs. non-union shops.

    I’m just trying to understand how this law will work for a single employer, currently a union shop, when some current and some new workers choose not to join the union. How will the non-union workers be paid and treated in relation to the union workers? It seems that unless there is a difference the employer gains nothing; they still have the union to deal with on the work rule issues and their employee costs are identical.

    Obviously, as the mix changes, it’s possible for the workers to throw the union out. But in the meantime, what happens?

    • December 11, 2012 at 5:30 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      JS – employees in right to work for less states make, on average, $5,000 less each year. They receive 30% less in benefits, again, on average. Also, workplace accidents are more frequent in right to work for less states as are occupatational fatalities. But, as one cooperative agribusiness corporation put it to one of our loss control reps here in Iowa (a right to work for less state) – “if we injure or kill an employee, we’ll just find another one.” Now, obviously, that plant will have to answer to OSHA, but if you pay your employees less, you should have enough to pay those OSHA fines when you injure or kill someone, right?

      • December 11, 2012 at 5:57 pm
        FFA says:
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        Cap, are you in a union?

        My one of my brothers is a Union Electrician. His work is far and few in between. Had to sell his house and move to the lake. He is starting to pull his retirement. He may have work 6 months the past 36 months. When he was working as a foreman, the hall sent him an alcoholic. He did not want that guy on the job site with him for safety reasons. He sent him back to the hall and told him not to bother showing up on his sites any more. He caught hell from the hall and had to let him back on the job. My bro got plenty of picks of this guy drinking on the job. Instead of him getting let go, they put him in rehab. Shortly after rehab, he showed back up on my bros job site drunk again.

        Point being, its impossible to get rid of a guy like that when a union is involved.

        • December 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, Do you remember the story a couple of years ago where the union Chrysler employees were caught for the second time drinking and smoking pot on their union contract break? Caught on camera in full view. Chrysler suspended them from working. Now, the union has gotten them re-instated. I will never by another Chrysler product and I have had them in the past. I wouldn’t trust one of these dope head drunks to put my car together.

          • December 12, 2012 at 2:55 pm
            FFA says:
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            I dont recall that. Was this at the plant in Belvidere, Il?

      • December 11, 2012 at 6:06 pm
        Agent says:
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        Planet, your post is baloney. I live in a right to work state and there is no evidence right to work employees work in less safe environments. If the company is involved in safety and have a good WC carrier who provides good loss control, the shop will be safe. I have many clients with excellent modifiers testifying to safety over a period of years. Perhaps in your wonderful Iowa, they have the attitude you say, but not here. Also, we do quite well without unions down here agitating and causing trouble.

      • December 12, 2012 at 11:39 am
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        Ever see the Cobra Premiums on a Union Plan? My Bros was almost 2x what I am currently paying. His local hall was running in the red by about $40K a month. The hall had to down size.

        Why does the Secretary make Journeyman Scale sitting in the office while my bro is in the field running the risk of shock, falling off a ladder, payng for is own tools, ect… Wonder if the Sect has to supply her own pencils, note pads, phone ect…

        My Sis is a TPA for the Carpenters Union. She gets yelled at regarding the Cobra Premiums as well as the lack of work for the members. Most work going on these days is Non Union Shops in my neck of the woods.

        Now we have Rahm kicking the Janatorial Union at OHare to the curb. Chicago Sun Times broke the Union.

        Rat patroll has been out less and less these days. Union folks begining to see their days are numbered. Better to collect a smaller pay check and have a job then to try and collect what left in the strike fund.

        Rahms move was big. Now, if he could get the murder rate under controll. Carry & Conceal could be the solution. Springfield – get the Hell out of the way. Let the man work with the rules the Constitution gave him. Wonder when the solution to the Pk Meter mess is coming down.

    • December 11, 2012 at 6:01 pm
      Agent says:
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      JS, You probably need a labor lawyer to figure out your questions. I can only surmise that if you have a current union shop, the non-union employees will have their lives made miserable by the union people. They will be called scabs and all other kinds of names and I am sure employee morale will be very low. Also, if a union guy is in a supervisor position, he will give favorable treatment to his buddies and treat the non-union guys poorly. Not a good scenario for a mixed shop.

      • December 12, 2012 at 10:12 am
        J.S. says:
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        Thanks. Can’t disagree on the work environment in a mixed shop. Makes it tough on business owners if this occurs.

      • December 12, 2012 at 10:35 am
        FFA says:
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        Do you guys get the Rat Patroll in your neck of the woods?

        • December 12, 2012 at 10:38 am
          Libby says:
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          What’s the Rat Patrol?

          • December 12, 2012 at 11:10 am
            FFA says:
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            Its about a 30 ft inflatable rat the unions pull out when they are picketing a Non Union job site. Big – Red Yellow and Black. Typically see it with Carpenters, but any Hall can request the use.

    • December 12, 2012 at 10:20 am
      FFA says:
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      There will not be mixxed shops. They are either union or not union. A non union worker would be insane to go into a union shop.

  • December 11, 2012 at 5:59 pm
    FFA says:
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    BTW, its the non union shops getting the work in my neck of the woods these days.

  • December 11, 2012 at 6:01 pm
    FFA says:
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    Agent – what happened last night? Your Texans looked like, well a different NFC North team that plays in a right to work state. (Hint – they went 0-16 recently).
    Hope they are not pretenders like Da Bears.

    • December 11, 2012 at 6:10 pm
      Agent says:
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      A combination of too much Brady and the rare off night by the team. Hey, I am used to that with the Cowboys. They have taken half a season off from playing decent. As I have said before, the NFL stands for Not for Long. When you think a team is going to do something special, they will take the tank. They will be back and may still have the home field advantage. It might be different for the Patriots to play in Reliant stadium rather than the frozen tundra in Boston.

  • December 11, 2012 at 9:21 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “My comment about hate had nothing to do with businesses working around Obamacare. It had to do with you and Agent saying Captain probably lost his hours and got his company laptop taken away. That’s personal and mean spirited.”

    Oh really? and I suppose this comment, that you made earlier is not mean spirited? Libby said- “I’d rather be a pretty flower than an asshole”

    Just like you Libby name calling when you want to and calling people mean spirited when it suits you. I can see you are picking up pointers from Obozo.

    • December 12, 2012 at 8:43 am
      Libby says:
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      That’s right, Sarge. I said it. Anyone can get pushed too far at times. I’d reached my limit.

    • December 12, 2012 at 10:41 am
      Agent says:
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      Sargent, I hope you don’t live in Lansing. The union thugs were at their worst behavior yesterday and physically attacked an innocent reporter. Where were the cops when all this was going on? Oh, that’s right, they are union cops up there and support whatever the union does. Folks that choose to live in Blue States with heavy union involvement do so at their own risk. I couldn’t be paid enough to live up there and try to run a business there.

      Regarding Libby, She and CT have had several cat fights on several subjects. One will post a comment on the article, the other makes a snarky retort and they are off and running with 20-30 personal attacks and name calling. Planet, on the other hand is mostly goofy and sarcastic and Progressive left with his comments.

  • December 12, 2012 at 10:32 am
    FFA says:
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    From the Chicago news (ABC 7) last night, Rahm signed a deal to outsource the Janitorial Services at OHare. Good by union shop and jobs that went with it, Hellow Non union Shop. Sidways move on Unemployment.
    JR wife Sandy thinks she is doing a good job as attendance shows she made only 10% of her council meetings / votes on the city council. Wish I could do 10% of the job for 100% of the pay. Trotter is gunning for JR job. He is not yet qualified, he has not been convicted, just arrested.
    Another one named Ford (I think he is a council man) was in court yesterday for financial fraud.
    Court of Appeals has upheld Carry & Conceal in IL. The democrats in Springfield are moving to restrict that so as to make it illegal to carry in public. I thought I read somewhere that I have the right to Bare Arms???
    Wrap it up with a couple shootings, weather and then the really bad news, the Bears put Robbie Gould on IR. Done for the season!

    • December 12, 2012 at 10:36 am
      Libby says:
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      Tell us again. Why are still living there?

      • December 12, 2012 at 11:05 am
        FFA says:
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        My wife. Nuff said???

    • December 12, 2012 at 2:23 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      I thought I read where the Carry conceal law is a done deal? The appeals court reversed the ruling of the lower court and told the state it had a certain amount of time to come up with a conceal and carry law?

      • December 12, 2012 at 3:02 pm
        FFA says:
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        Springfield is trying to pass laws that restrict it. Prekwinkle (Cook County Board Pres) was on the news denouncing the courts ruling. Other sources cited a decrease in Crime when Conceal & Cary is the norm.
        Waiting to see Rahms comments about it. He needs help down there. If this helps reign in the murder rate, then he needs to speak in favor of it. Afterall, Chicago runs this state.

        • December 13, 2012 at 10:25 am
          FFA says:
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          On the news this morning, Rahm & Quinn were yapping Conceal & Carry can not be allowed. Quinn made the point that Mentally IL & People with a history of Domestic Violence should not be allowed to have a gun. I would tend to agree with that, but it should not prevent someone like me – an honest law abbiding citizen to carry one.

          Rahm needs help. I dont understand why he is denouncing what help he can get even if it means arming every citizen in Chicago that is mentally able and no known history of Domestic Violence.

          Maybe I should just walk around with my 12 guage. Cant conceal that.

        • December 13, 2012 at 10:30 am
          Agent says:
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          What have you had in Chicago in the last few years, 500+ murders? This is with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Perhaps the rate will go down now that Conceal & Carry goes in. At least some people will be able to defend themselves against the gangs roaming the streets. Texas is safer with Conceal & Carry. The Hispanics and Blacks don’t like each other very much and they are the ones having issues with each other and commit most of the violence.

          • December 13, 2012 at 11:41 am
            FFA says:
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            When the Colorado Theater thing happend, Chicagos top cop was quoted as saying “This is a typical day in Chicago”. Its mostly the gang bangers. The ones you hear about on the new are innocent victims – generally speaking.

            The only thing the strick laws do is prevent law abiding citizens from haveing a gun so they cant defend themselves. The gang bangers will always have guns.

          • December 14, 2012 at 8:45 am
            Libby says:
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            That’s right! Let’s solve gun violence with MORE guns! Great idea? If the gangbangers are the only ones with guns and they are killing each other, STAY AWAY FROM THE GANGBANGERS. Problem solved.

  • December 12, 2012 at 11:43 am
    Sargent Major says:
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    Agent,
    No I don’t live in Lansing but Lansing and East Lansing is a great area to live. capital city, major college town (Go Michigan State) and great services. Michigan is a great place to live with great quality of living. That said you have to stay out of the city of Detroit, Flint Michigan, Pontiac Michigan and Saginaw. You can guess what they all have in common. That is where the union thugs and bucket heads come from. They are stuck in the 50′s and maybe 60′s when there were no choices when buying a car. They could negotiate anything they wanted at contract time and get it to keep the union from striking. that eventually made them uncompetitive. thus it was over but these numskulls don’t get it. Besides that the majority of Americans have little sympathy for big unions today. The big three use to control 90% of the car market. Today maybe 55%. Other than that, the rest of the state is as red as can be, have money, high quality of life and great people. Plus the lakes and secenery is terrific. I am staying. Besides that my Tigers are positioning themselves for another run!

    • December 12, 2012 at 12:06 pm
      Agent says:
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      Thanks Sargent for giving me the lowdown. I have seen adds on Michigan touting their resources and business climate???? About the only thing I really liked was they had a number of great golf courses up there and the sun stays up a long time in the summer to enjoy them. I saw an article about Hoffa Jr. saying there will be a civil war in Michigan unless this right to work goes away. He appears to be just as nice as his old man who ended up in a foundation of a building somewhere.

      • December 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm
        FFA says:
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        My ventures into MI were Snowmobiling. Great trail system. One of the best in the mid west. One of my beefs is that they dont groom the trails over the week end. I was told that is a Govt function and the Govt shuts down at 05:00 on Friday evenng. By 07:00, the trails are wrecked. Wisconsin & IL allows the clubs to groom so the groomers is running 24/7. When you go from PRescile into the UP, you know exactly where the state line is. Rode the entire width of the UP right up to Lk Superior. Rough going. Coming back, we rode the logging roads and just flew at an average of 70mph. Great weekend. Maybe they will be running the groomer all day now the Union is losing power.

  • December 12, 2012 at 2:11 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    A civil war in Michigan, I don’t think so. The unions, because of stunts like this (angry, violent and disorderly) do not get a lot of sympathy any longer. When normal ordinary working people find out what they make for an unskilled labor job, most get mad. Their numbers are maybe half what they were 25 to 30 years ago.

    What I find interesting is all of the violence from the democrats and liberals when they are protesting or want to make a point. For example- the Occupy Wall Street group. You did not see the Tea party have ANY problems. But the Occupy Group had fist fights, at least one knifing and at least one or two gunshot victims, They Pis*ed on the sidwalks, sh*t in the parks and had to be thrown out when time was up. They may have even fornicated with dogs stray dogs for all I know.
    How about this union protest? This group beats up people around the State Capital, cuts down a tent that had several senior citizens in it, made death threats about how they were going to “Kill” opponents.
    How about the Gay lesbian protests- How many of those end up with vandalism and violence because the majority will not accept their lifstyle while they try to shove it in the face of ordinary citizens?
    I could go on but it is disgusting and to think this is the core of Democrat support.

    • December 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm
      Libby says:
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      Yes, Sarge, all Democrats fornicate with stray dogs. And cats, too.

      • December 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm
        Libby says:
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        It’s in our party oath.

        • December 12, 2012 at 3:05 pm
          FFA says:
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          I think he was referring to ugly people.

          • December 12, 2012 at 3:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            Sarge said: “But the Occupy Group had fist fights, at least one knifing and at least one or two gunshot victims, They Pis*ed on the sidwalks, sh*t in the parks and had to be thrown out when time was up. They may have even fornicated with dogs stray dogs for all I know.”

          • December 12, 2012 at 3:43 pm
            FFA says:
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            Was an attempt at sarcasim. He is a Ted Head. He would probably eat the dogs if needed.

    • December 12, 2012 at 5:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      Don’t you find it interesting Sargent that the Tea Party is called racist and violent and not one reported act of violence from their rallies. They are also clean and respectful of property. The big rally they had at the mall in Washington DC drew around 500,000 and yet no trash was found when they were through. Comparing that to the last inauguration, the mall looked like a third world country had descended and it took a couple of weeks to clean up their mess and resod the grass. Compare the OWS movement and Union thugs. They are the complete opposite and many of the OWS crowd are anarchists who recognize no government and act accordingly.

  • December 12, 2012 at 2:18 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Agent, I have lived in several places across the US and I will stay in Michigan. We have a lot of golfers (includng myself) and we have some of the best golf courses in the country. You are right, there is not much better sight than a summer Michigan sunset over a beautiful lake. If you like reading aout the union movement there are a couple of good books you should read. one is called- “I heard you paint houses” It is about Hoffa and the Mob and written with interviews from Frank “The Irishman” Sheeran a known mob enforcer. the Other is called “Hoffa Wars”.

    • December 12, 2012 at 2:26 pm
      Agent says:
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      Well, Wisconsin seemed to survive after their recall of Walker didn’t work. Perhaps the union violence and thuggery will fade gradually, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go further. These people are subhuman and represent the worst elements of our society. I am sure they will work hard to beat the governor and all legislators that voted for this up to the point of stealing the next election. Hey, it worked for Al Franken in Minnesota when he showed up with a car load of fake ballots at the last minute to win his election.

      • December 12, 2012 at 3:33 pm
        Libby says:
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        Really, Agent? Again, I have to tell you to calm down. Here’s a post from conservative Citizen Watch:

        Raw footage, shot on the steps of the Michigan State Capitol by a member of our Citizen Watchdog team, shows brutish labor leaders engaging in the tired practices that have marked union protests for decades. Chants. Bullhorns. Public intimidation of any person without union credentials. Wait, is that Jimmy Hoffa in frame 6?

        Wow! Chats and Bullhorns? They really are subhuman. I’ve seen how you get when you think someone’s coming for your piece of the pie. These people are just trying to protect what’s theirs just like you are. The only violence I saw was one guy took 3 swings at Steve Crowder and missed all 3 times. Oh! And a tent bit the dust. Big deal.

        Move on people. There’s nothing to see here.

        • December 12, 2012 at 5:11 pm
          FFA says:
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          Libby, we have all seen the unions get physical & hostile. We all know they get violent when they dont get their way. That is a true as someone got murdered in Chicago today – and I have not even seen the news.

        • December 12, 2012 at 5:57 pm
          Agent says:
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          I saw the footage you missed Libby. There was in innocent Fox reporter who was slugged repeatedly including a cheap shot on the back of the head as he was trying to help the people in a tent that had been collapsed by the union thugs with people trapped in them. Yes, they are subhuman and weren’t just yelling. These people are exactly what is wrong with this culture and we have a President egging them on by telling them to fight for their rights. They took him literally and they should be charged for assault.

          • December 14, 2012 at 8:19 am
            Libby says:
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            The guy swung 3 times at the reporter and whiffed it all 3 times. He was fine. That hardly qualifies as “subhuman” behavior. That’s SOP in Texas, I hear. But the again, you guys connect.

  • December 12, 2012 at 3:15 pm
    FFA says:
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    Mi will bounce back and be strnger.

    • December 12, 2012 at 3:37 pm
      Agent says:
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      I hope you are right about Michigan bouncing back. At some point, the citizens have to say enough is enough and reign in the unions. They are responsible for a lot of what is wrong with this country and it is no wonder our products are not competitive and companies keep outsourcing or moving their business to other countries. I don’t even buy Hershey’s chocolate anymore after they moved their mfg to Mexico.

      • December 12, 2012 at 5:24 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        I hear you. We should go back to the days when wages weren’t liveable, workplace conditions weren’t upkept, hours were piled onto the workforce (including weekends), benefits lacked or didn’t exist at all, and workers’ fingers were getting minced up with the other “meat” that went into our hotdogs (It’s people…It’s people…Soylent Green is people!) Man, those were the days back before the country was ruined. I love how women and minorities were treated back then, too. Can’t we just go back to those times?

        I’ll give you Hershey’s though, Agent. Mainly, because that stuff isn’t good for you anyhow. But, shipping the jobs to Mexico is another good reason to boycott.

        • December 12, 2012 at 5:25 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          *workers’ fingers when there was an accident on the floor – not trying to intimate the fingers were being cut off purposely and intentionally then being added to our footlongs*

        • December 13, 2012 at 5:43 pm
          FFA says:
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          “We should go back to the days when wages weren’t liveable”
          No. Reasonable yes. Hyperinflated – no.

          • December 14, 2012 at 9:42 am
            Libby says:
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            What’s reasonable?

      • December 12, 2012 at 9:13 pm
        Sargent Major says:
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        I have a lot of faith in the people here. I went to dinner tonight with a group that included a couple of labor guys. After some discussion one said to me that some of what people saw were old union style tactics and that it did not serve the union cause. That included the assault, the death threats and assault and attempted murder when they cut down the massive tent on a group of senior citizens and the guy with the hotdog cart who was trying to serve all parties. He said people will see that and have a negative reaction to it. He was almost apologetic. Then he said that in Michigan that 14.7% of the people are in a union which leaves 85.3% of the people non union. That is a far cry from the days when 50% or more of the people were in a union.

  • December 12, 2012 at 9:03 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Captain said- ” I hear you. We should go back to the days when wages weren’t liveable, workplace conditions weren’t upkept, hours were piled onto the workforce (including weekends), benefits lacked or didn’t exist at all, and workers’ fingers were getting minced up with the other “meat” that went into our hotdogs (It’s people…It’s people…Soylent Green is people!) Man, those were the days back before the country was ruined. I love how women and minorities were treated back then, too. Can’t we just go back to those times?”
    Come on Planet you must be living in the 40′s and early 50′s. How about The Mercedes Benz plant in Huntsville Alabama that people flock to work for. There is a BMW plant in South Carolina that has a waiting list for open positions. There is a Toyota Plant in Georgetown, Ky (which is not a right to work state) which produces 500,000 cars, had a union vote at least three times and voted down. They have no problem finding good workers. In fact Toyota MFG in Georgetown had the highest percentage of college educated workers in the US so the pay is pretty good.
    How about Nissan in Springhill TN, high quality workers and voted the union down several times.

    How about Honda which just built a new plant in Indiana (a Right to work state). they have a waiting list to go to work there.
    The point is those companies are doing well, quality high and people want to work there.

    I guess you missed the piece on Chrysler union workers in Detroit who were caught repeatedly smoking dope at lunch in a park and were suspended with the intent to terminate? The end result, the unon (UAW) got them reinstated and they went back to work. What a deal.

    • December 13, 2012 at 10:09 am
      Agent says:
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      I agree Sargent. Planet has been hitting the reefers in the men’s bathroom again judging from his comments. He actually thinks safety suffers at right to work plants and are much safer with union labor. I have seen some of those plants you are talking about and you can almost eat off the floor they are so clean and nice. They also have safe plants and are invested in Loss Prevention because an injured worker is not a productive worker. We will let him drive the Chrysler put together by the pot head union drunks and we will drive the Beemer built in South Carolina.

    • December 13, 2012 at 10:10 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      Oh, my bad. Union workers only exist in car plants. And, what about the fat cats on Wall Street who are bumping lines during lunch time? We continue to shove money in their faces! Now that’s a deal!

      • December 13, 2012 at 10:41 am
        FFA says:
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        Fat cats on Wall Street will fall victimt their own short comings just like the unions are. People will get tired of them too.

        Wi is doing just fine with their balanced budget and no announcements about lay offs / hours cut as a direct result of the Job Killer in DC. Walker should open a training school for Govenors around the country.

        I hope the Repubs put him up for Pres next election. No one can discredit the task he has accomplished in WI. Back Milwaukee out of the equation (Democrat Country) WI has a very low unemployment rate. The mayor of MIL seems to be as bad as they get for big cities. Of course, with the unemployment rate much higher then the states, he is very popular with his Give A Way style.

        • December 14, 2012 at 8:41 am
          Libby says:
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          No disrespect intended, but if you take Milwaukee out of it, who gives a sh*t about Wisconsin?

  • December 12, 2012 at 9:20 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Libby said- “Yes, Sarge, all Democrats fornicate with stray dogs. And cats, too”.

    Well Libby I see you are honest and truthful by claiming that the Occupy deadbeats are Liberal Democrats. The majority of democrats quickly dumped them and went quit once they should their true color and behavior. Even the left wing nuts won’t even claim those Tu*ds. At least you admit they are part of the heart of the Democratic party.

    • December 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      quiet

      • December 13, 2012 at 10:52 am
        Agent says:
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        Sargent, did you see the news about the 17 prominent Democratic Senators who sent a letter to HHS to not implement the Medical Devices tax due to kick in on 1-1? Perhaps they should have read the bill before they voted for it. They also don’t seem to know anything about the $63 per head charge for all Individual & Group to pay for the PreX people coverage. Nancy said we have to pass the bill so we can see what is in it. When you have a 2,700 page bill of Progressive nonsense, this is what you get. The Affordable Care Act is anything but affordable to the American People.

    • December 14, 2012 at 8:47 am
      Libby says:
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      Part of? Yes. The heart? No.

  • December 13, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    From the Bureau of Labor and Statistics:

    Right to Work States vs. other states:
    1. Median household income is $6,400 less (I rounded down)
    2. 26.7% of jobs are low-wage jobs compared to 19.5% in other states.
    3. 16.8% are uninsured vs. 13.1% in other states.
    4. 56.2% have job-based health insurance vs. 60.1% in other states.
    5. 50.7% of employers offer insurance compared to 55.2% in other states.
    6. 15.3% poverty rate vs. 13.1% in other states. When kids are invovled, 21.5% vs. 18.1% in other states.
    7. $3,390 less per pupil spent (again, rounded down) on elementary and secondary education than other states.
    8. Workplace deaths 36% higher than other states.

    Hence, Right to Work for Less. Thumb me down because you don’t like the stats, which just tells us all you don’t like facts when you don’t agree with them.

    • December 13, 2012 at 1:38 pm
      FFA says:
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      Whats the unemployment rate in Right to work states vs no right to work states?

      • December 13, 2012 at 2:06 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        The numbers are flying fast and furious about the Right To Work bill signed in Michigan this week. Consider this claim from Fox News:

        As of October, the average unemployment rate in right-to-work states is 6.9 percent but 7.6 percent unemployment in non-right-to-work states. The national rate for that month: 7.9 percent.

        These are, of course, impossible numbers. Somehow 23 states have an average unemployment rate of 6.9 percent and 27 states have an average rate of 7.6 percent, but the national average is higher than either—7.9 percent? Of course, Fox doesn’t explain how they got to those numbers—numbers that anybody can see just don’t make sense.

        But if you do the hard work and look at the raw data, it seems they made the rookie mistake of averaging the state percentages without accounting for the different sizes of the states involved. Which just goes to show you how careful you have to be in understanding the numbers you’re using.

        When you accurately study those numbers, you do find that non-right-to-work states do have slightly higher unemployment rates than states with right-to-work laws. The real question here is that of causation—or lack thereof. Any reasonable economist will tell you that it’s nearly impossible to isolate the impact of right-to-work laws on a state’s job growth. A multitude of other factors intervene. However, one thing the numbers can show is that right-to-work laws have a negative effect on the wages of workers in that state.

        According to the Economic Policy Institute, wages for full-time, full-year union and nonunion workers in right-to-work states are about $1,500 less annually than for similar workers in non-right-to-work states.

        • December 13, 2012 at 2:51 pm
          Agent says:
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          Planet, your numbers are just as flawed as what comes from the Labor Dept every single month. This country’s true unemployment rate is somewhere north of 15% when we take into account the unemployed, underemployed, people that have given up and all the ones going on permanent Social Security Disability. Tell me something, how can 350,000 new unemployed applications and only 150,000 new jobs created come out on your math? This country is falling further and further behind on job creation. The only jobs being created are Federal government jobs which are a drain on our country. They hire on average 101 people every single day. Have you heard of government layoffs at the Federal level in recent years? The key to job growth is private sector and they are not hiring because they have seen the writing on the wall.

          • December 13, 2012 at 3:28 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent, I watch the U6 as well. I also agree with you about that being those being the ACTUAL numbers. I am citing the U3 number for argument’s sake since that is the number Fox News and other conservative websites and shows are referring to. I am trying to keep the methodology the same. No sense comparing apples to U6′s.

        • December 13, 2012 at 5:06 pm
          FFA says:
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          “As of October, the average unemployment rate in right-to-work states is 6.9 percent but 7.6 percent unemployment in non-right-to-work states”

          So, you have a better chance of being employed in a Right to Work State.

          My only questions wa sis there a difference in unemployment rate in Right to Work vs Non Right To work states.

        • December 14, 2012 at 9:15 am
          Libby says:
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          Keep in mind, not all jobs in non-right-to-work states are union. Colorado is a non-right-to-work state and has a very low percentage of union shops, but an overall healthy economy.

      • December 13, 2012 at 4:54 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, I just saw a cute road sign cartoon. It said – Welcome to Illinois, Land of Lincoln. Below that, it said – Sorry about the Obama thing.

        • December 13, 2012 at 5:17 pm
          FFA says:
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          Agent, here is a deep question for you – If its true, is it funny?

          Catch the 121212 concert last night? How many American acts were there compatred to English talent? Not to thumb my nose or seem ungratefull to the help from the other side of the pond, but why wasnt Bruce the Head Liner?

          Mick said it the best – Never before has there been a collection of English talent this old in one place.

          One hell of a salute to Keith Moon last night. In my opinion, best act of the night.

          • December 13, 2012 at 5:28 pm
            Agent says:
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            No, I didn’t see it since I watch Criminal Minds and CSI Las Vegas which is much more entertaining and they have hot women like Elizabeth Shue as stars. I wonder how much of the money they raise will reach the people who really need it. Haiti didn’t work out so well with a couple hundred million raised by concerts and George Sr & Slick Willy begging for donations. Most of the money was siphoned off down there by Haitian politicians and the people are still living in tents.

          • December 13, 2012 at 5:37 pm
            FFA says:
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            My usual Wednesday night TV too. Recorded it.

          • December 14, 2012 at 9:41 am
            Libby says:
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            What? No Top Chef?

          • December 14, 2012 at 10:35 am
            FFA says:
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            Whats Top Chef?
            Dont have Cable or internet in the house any morePulled it out when I was living with my parents. Come time for my Brother to take his turn, I never turned it back on. Whats the point?

          • December 14, 2012 at 10:40 am
            Libby says:
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            It’s a TV show where chefs compete each week to become Top Chef. $250,000 and bunch of other stuff to win. It’s fun, but you need cable.

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:44 pm
            FFA says:
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            It wasn’t until I ulled Cable & Internet that my daughter got off her butt and found a job. Got tired of her sitting around watching the tube with her I Pad in her lap.
            Now that she has a taste of spending cash, she is highly motivated. They have appointed her shift leader and gave her a slight bump in pay. Has not even been a month on the job.

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:48 pm
            Libby says:
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            That’s great, FFA. Now it’s time to set a timeline for her move out…

          • December 14, 2012 at 2:48 pm
            Libby says:
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            Or at least pay rent.

  • December 13, 2012 at 3:20 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    The numbers I recently recall for unemployment in right to work states was 6.3 to 6.5%. In non RTW the unemployment rate was somewhere in the 9.5% range. Plus, I think you have t look at net job growth. RTW states have been adding jobs just about each year with states like Texas as big job gain states. Non RTW states have very slow job additions and most are net job losses. That trend has been over the last couple of decades.

    These numbers do not reflect the people who have quit trying to find jobs, those who accepted lower paying jobs (Underemployed) and those forced out of the job market and retired

    • December 13, 2012 at 5:49 pm
      FFA says:
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      Your numbers are more of what I would have expected. Even with Caps numbers, Non union states are employing more people.

      • December 14, 2012 at 9:45 am
        Libby says:
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        At lower paying jobs with less benefits. Just because there is job growth, doesn’t necessarily mean they are good jobs. Big business is paying less and making more profits. That’s great for the corporate big wigs, but not so much for middle America. That’s why the wealth disparity is growing and the middle class is shrinking.

        • December 14, 2012 at 10:11 am
          Agent says:
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          There are plenty of good paying jobs being created in the south and in Texas in particular. Companies are relocating here because of no state income tax, abundant resources, a willing workforce who want to work and a much lower cost of living and right to work. The middle class may be shrinking in the north because of union involvement, high taxes, high cost of living and little job creation. The practice of the current government is creating “Trickle up Poverty” with all their give a way programs which do nothing to encourage job growth.

          • December 14, 2012 at 10:18 am
            Libby says:
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            A good friend of mine moved from Florida to San Antonio just to get a job. When she got there, the job was for $11.14 an hour. I don’t call that a “good” job. How can a person support themselves on $11.14 an hour? That’s not even $1,400 a month take home. When you factor in housing, gas, utilities, food, insurance, and a car payment you are losing money.

            You’d have to get TWO of these “good” jobs just to make ends meet.

          • December 14, 2012 at 10:38 am
            FFA says:
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            $11.14 an hour is better then $00.00 per hour.

          • December 14, 2012 at 10:44 am
            Libby says:
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            Not if you’re making more than that on unemployment.

  • December 13, 2012 at 3:34 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Planet I guess you should ask Hostess employees how they feel about spending all that money on union dues, strikes, labor negotiations and how much they thought they benefitted from it. Then I would ask how you would expect companies in the US to compete on a global basis or even domestically against foriegn competition who do not carry the same employee expense burden. What? Just ignore it and go out of business?
    You must have competitive wage expenses if you don’t want to go out of business. That is not political republican speak, that is business and since Obozo has not nationalized business like the Chinese or North Koreans then that makes this a capitalist nation. Business will do what it has to in order to generate the profit returns it has to in order to satisfy shareholders. That does not mean “fat cats” either. That means most 401K plans for individual workers as well. Unless of course you blew your 401K money on a Ski Natique boat, a boat slip and a new SUV to pull it with like smeone I know. Now he complains he has no money and 401K plans are no good.

    • December 13, 2012 at 4:24 pm
      Agent says:
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      Planet sounds like someone who drives a Prius or Smart Car or heaven forbid, a Volt. How do you like that 30 mile range on that Volt Planet? Quite an auto for $40,000+ when it costs $90,000 to build with all that good union labor.

    • December 14, 2012 at 2:15 pm
      Agent says:
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      At least there was a job in Texas, unlike Florida. If she is lucky, perhaps she will be considered poor and get housing assistance, food stamps and be right on up there in no time.

      • December 14, 2012 at 2:19 pm
        Libby says:
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        If she’s lucky, she’ll be considered poor??? Did you post that with a straight face?

        If she got housing assistance and food stamps, you would have lumped her in with the “on the couch, watching Andy Griffin reruns” crowd. You’re lack of understanding and empathy for the less-than-you class knows no bounds, Agent.

        • December 14, 2012 at 2:58 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, haven’t you heard the politicians including your President talk about the working poor and how we have to help them out? I think that breaks at about $30,000 per year. The middle class is getting hammered in this economy and yes their taxes are going up under the avalanche that awaits in January. The policy of Trickle up Poverty is working very well, don’t you think?

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:00 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’m sorry, Agent. I am against a working-poor class. I know it’s something Republicans relish, as they continue to slash wages and benefits in order to add to their coffers. But me? I think it’s a bad idea.

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:16 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, you may be against the working poor class, but your President is doing everything in his power to create and extend it. Republicans would like to see everyone prosperous and successful, cut taxes, encourage private sector growth for business who can then hire and expand. Everyone would benefit from that, but when we have a beat down every day of the week, who is going to hire and expand when they see the handwriting on the wall. Not everyone is a big corporation. Small business makes this economy go and they are not going to go as long as we have policies going on that is negative toward them.

          • December 14, 2012 at 3:22 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – I am all for small business. Wholeheartedly. They are not the people to which I refer. They are getting hosed along with the rest of us.

            I agree, we need to get spending under control and create a tax code for small business that makes sense. But the ultra-wealthy will not miss a beat with a small increase in taxes. That money doesn’t go towards investing in America. It goes into making more wealth for those that are already wealthy.

  • December 13, 2012 at 3:59 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    Captain said- “Oh, my bad. Union workers only exist in car plants.”

    No, but they are huge employers and each plant employs thousands of employees depending on shift runs etc. So name me employers as large as these that are building large manufacturing facilities (with higher wage jobs in non right to work states) and not those subsidized federally or paid to set up in a non RTW state?

  • December 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm
    FFA says:
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    I have yet to see any comments out of OBama on this subject. Has he said / done anything one way or the other?

    Has he used union labor to get relected now just dont give a damn about them anymore?

    • December 13, 2012 at 6:07 pm
      Agent says:
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      Actually, he did comment. He was out there giving a speech about the fiscal cliff and suddenly switched gears and said the Unions should fight for their rights. They took him literally and the next day, the ugly scene in Lansing came down. I think he was pleased that they were acting like they were. He wouldn’t mind a little blood in the street if the Unions got their way.

    • December 14, 2012 at 4:42 pm
      Agent says:
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      Finally Libby, I get a post from you I can like. If you want to dun Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Jeffrey Immelt, go for it. We as small business need help and government has to realize it has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. They are like Alcholics who just have to have a drink and will beg, borrow or steal to get it. When you have a government who will not change their ways, the revenue added just goes for more spending and they will be back to get more. What a joke. Merry Christmas again.

  • December 14, 2012 at 10:48 am
    FFA says:
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    Off the CBS2 news last night, Trotter was recorded addressing a crowd the day after the election using racial slurs. He was quoted after this came to light that he does not view the word he used as a racial slur or offensive. The reporter disagreed.
    Per WGN9 this morning, Jrs’ wife has filed ammendments on her campaign account dating back to 2009 and forward. If I followed the story correctly, she was shifting money from her account to Jrs’ account. This shifting is creating a negative balance in her account and now another investigation will follow. Guess thats what happens when you only work 10% of the time.

    • December 14, 2012 at 10:57 am
      Libby says:
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      I guess he used the word “cracker” in a speach to a mostly black audience.

      • December 14, 2012 at 12:39 pm
        FFA says:
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        My guess too. They bleeped it out. I just dont have enough interest to find out for sure. He thinks he is above the law – skirting the Carry & Conceal laws as they are written and then trying to minnimalize him trying to carry a loaded gun on to an air plane. He stated he just got off work at the security firm and security firm record show no record of him ever working a single hour.
        Just another one that needs to go.

        • December 14, 2012 at 12:51 pm
          Libby says:
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          Yeah, not a great comment from a State Senator. Very classless.

  • December 14, 2012 at 10:54 am
    FFA says:
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    And the recently outed Janitors Union at OHare was picketing in front of Rahms house last night. Rahm simply stated the contract was out out to bid and the union shop was just to high.
    Another busted union in Chicago. Whats next, McCormick Place???



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