Attorney Behind $43M Award for Ohio Agent Against Nationwide Insurance to File Class Action

By | January 3, 2013

  • January 3, 2013 at 9:21 am
    Jeff Archer says:
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    Both parties were taken advantage of one way or another. I believe she abused the cash flow being pumped into the business for personal life style, while Nationwide preys on the book of business from new agents coming in the door.

    • January 3, 2013 at 3:19 pm
      Mr. Solvent says:
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      Call any former agent…you sell more, more is expected from you until you get to an unrealistic number. After that they threaten your agency. While I tend to believe Nationwide’s side of things it’s not uncommon practice for a profitable book of business to be seized in any captive situation.

      • January 6, 2016 at 8:49 pm
        Bubba Davis says:
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        They will seize it from a non-captive, too, if they think they can keep a reasonable portion of it. It happened to me. They grabbed over $3,000,000 of business, and reality is, you can’t just go rewrite it the next day. Nationwide corporate knows the percentages, and know that once a individual of business settles in with an insurance carrier, they aren’t always interested in switching again in the near future. They realize they won’t keep it forever, but in the short term, they get all the premium while avoiding the “expense” of an agent. It’s a pathetic way to do business, but that’s how it is.

  • January 3, 2013 at 10:20 am
    Former Agent says:
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    I can tell you first hand Nationwide’s AE program was a scam. I worked for Nationwide and I know the details of the AE program and I’m so happy they finally got caught. I don’t know how their sales managers sleep at night knowing what they did to so many young agents. Nationwide recruited between 300 – 400 AE agents between 2004 – 2010. Of those 300 – 400 agents only 10 successfully completed the AE program and the only reason those agents made it was because they were former independent agents rolling their books to Nationwide or they had family with Nationwide and they transferred business into their agency. We’ll see how this case turns out and the pending class action lawsuit but I think Nationwide is in a lot of trouble and rightfully so.

    • January 3, 2013 at 3:35 pm
      Former Agent's Friend says:
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      Amen to this and by the way, she has 20 years of experience. They take advantage of anyone. Younger or older, inexperienced and experienced. It doesn’t matter in the world of corporate greed.

    • January 3, 2013 at 5:15 pm
      Agent says:
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      There are a lot of games being played out there with companies and people are getting hurt. I am glad every day that I am Independent and not captive. We have had some carriers come and go over the years. We replace a non performing company with those who have a decent offering of products and good underwriting appetite and it has worked pretty well. The wierdest situation we had was a large commercial writer that we had close to $1mil volume of profitable business with decided we were small fry and they closed us to concentrate on larger agencies with big account business. They closed a number of agencies down on the same premise. The last I heard, the company was not doing so well. We had no problem moving our business to our other markets and never missed a beat.

  • January 3, 2013 at 11:36 am
    William says:
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    Are you kidding me? 600,000 book of business after three years? That is about normal, if you insured all your friends and family and referals with just yourself working and paying expenses, and then maybe you could hire one part time person after three years. How could Nationwide give that much? Why would they set this up for a three year program to then be allowed to be independent? They are right that they only make about 5% on the 600,000 in annualized premium, unless that is a lot of life. 40 years independent agent, fading away, but still hangin in there. No loans from insurance companies ever. Never even asked for one in 40 years. Father 20 years before that…no loans from insurance companies…Lost on this one…I can see why the other 70 Nationwide agents are interested, though, that is a big award.

    • January 3, 2013 at 11:43 am
      ExciteBiker says:
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      $5+ million in lost profit? On a $600k book that turned into <$300k after a renewal or two? Am I missing something here?

      • January 3, 2013 at 5:19 pm
        Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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        Smells like fraud/embezzlement to me. She had quite a lifestyle, while her business was failing. Maybe she can get a job at Bain. I can’t believe the jury fell for this one. Then again, smart people know how to get out of jury duty.

      • December 25, 2016 at 6:41 am
        Random Stranger says:
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        ExciteBiker wrote: “$5+ million in lost profit? On a $600k book that turned into <$300k after a renewal or two? Am I missing something here?"

        Answer — when the agent leaves, a lot of the business disperses. At the point that Nationwide canned the agent, the customers no longer had an office to go to, and the business was transferred to some regional office somewhere. The customers simply went to find a new place to buy insurance when they discovered their agent was out of business.

    • January 6, 2016 at 8:57 pm
      Bubba Davis says:
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      The company may be netting 5% after ALL the expenses are paid (which is a pretty-good margin if you think about it), but if you suddenly kill off the agent and the direct “costs” associated with the agent, that 5% suddenly jumps to 20% or more. If we believe the 5% figure and the before-firing and after-firing book of business figures . . . that means corporate was making $30,000 a year ($600,000 x 5%) prior to firing the agent. With the agent gone, they are now making $48,000 ($240,000 x 20%). More profit, and less risk exposure. It’s a sadistic business model, but some MBA with a sharp pencil figured it out.

  • January 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm
    Bruce says:
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    Believe me there is a lot that this article leaves out Nationwide hired these agents to write new business and then found every way conceivable to force them out sending the policies to their service centers and large agencies. Sort of a warped growth strategy so many people bankrupted, families torn apart, and even a suicide.

    • January 3, 2013 at 1:49 pm
      maqui says:
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      “Believe me”?
      In the fraud profession, absent of supportive info, “believe me” begs the opposite, right up there with “I swear to God” and “Take my Word for it.”

      • December 25, 2016 at 6:38 am
        Random Stranger says:
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        I understand your concerns with the “believe me” line. You should be suspcious. But the preponderance of posts on this thread, along with the verdicts (and being upheld in principle by the higher courts) support maqui’s “beleive me.”

    • January 4, 2013 at 11:54 am
      female former agent says:
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      I was a former agent with Nationwide Insurance, also in the AE Program..With all due respect to everyone’s comments. I understand that It is hard to believe that a company such as Nationwide Insurance is responsible for ruining so many families lives. Yes there were families who filed for bankruptcy, divorce and sad to say even suicide. I thank God for the strenght and faith that I endured through this horrific experience. Nationwide is supposed to be on your side. I am a single mother of 4 kids who’s children were attending great schools, but I was also a victim of this horrible experience. Let me clarify the money situation. Nationwide speaks on the amount of money provided to us agents during this AE program, but what they fail to mention is that we had to spend the money the way Nationwide demanded. The first year into the program we went to meetings every 3 months as Financed agents. In this meetings Nationwide demanding that the agents spend money in advertisements with yellow pages and other marketing sources which were very costly. The money given was spent solely on what Nationwide demanded. Yes we were set up to fail. We were provided with a Business plan that was created by Nationwide’s business consultant, who was later terminated. A business plan that was created with a Texas base model. Texas premiums are pretty high in cost. Ohio is one of the lowest state for insurance premium. We were never going to meet that goal. How can nationwide Insurance hold an agent accountable for a production number that was created for another market. Our bench mark should have been based on Ohio’s production and success. Not only that, Nationwide demanded that we hire 2 and 3 staff memembers even though as agent’s we argued our point where the money being provided from Nationwide was used for staff that we could not afford which was causing new agents financial set backs. Nationwide’s response was that in order to be compliant with the program we needed to hire the suggested amount of staff. Our yellow pages AD ran anywhere from $10,000 – $30,000. Once again all mandatory by Nationwide. There are so many details of the story that needs to be told. Unfortunately, Many of us agents were forced to make many desperate decisions which resulted in signing a confidentiality agreement. When you are a single mother, who is providing your 4 kids with a good education in an excellent school you tend to focus more on your children and how you are going to continue to pave the way for them. I was in a desperate situation which forced me to sign a confidentiality agreement. Nationwide did take advantage of many agents. I made conference of Champions year one. A very high achievement with the company. Unfortunately, it wasn’t until then that I realized that I was a top seller in my district yet the cash infusion was not enough to sustain the business and pay for all of the staff that we were mandated to hire. It wasn’t until then that I realized that I was tapping into my life savings, 401 K plan and my childrens college savings in order to continue to run my business. The business plan created by Nationwide was failing. The projected income from Nationwide’s business plan created by Nationwide’s business consultant was not accurate. Nationwide had 2 seperate sales plans. One was for the loan waiver and the other was achieving a successful agency. Unfortunately, and sad to say Nationwide only provided the new agetns with the sales plan for the loan waiver. When this was brought up to Nationwide’s attention we were offered an exit option with only 10 days to make a final decision. The majority of the over head expenses were created and demanded by Nationwide. Staff, Insurance, office space, Advertisement (which they demanded, Radio, newspaper, Television commercials, yellow pages, bill boards) There is no way that any starting small business can afford such advertisements. We were obligated to sign 3 year contracts with these advertisement companies. The best moral of the story is that were left alone to fail with very limited training. Our contract stated that training and support would be provided to the new agents as first time small business owners. Little to none was provided. The $25,000 that Nationwide speaks of was another scam. We were given $25,000 to hire an accountant to create a new business plan and performa. The $25,000 was to be used to pay the accountant of choice for their services of unscrambling the business plan provided to us agents by Nationwide and after the accountant of choice unscrambled Nationwide’s business plan they were to create a similar plan. The wonderful moral of the story is that it took any accountant numerous weeks debating with Nationwide because Nationwide did not agree with the plan the certified accountants put together. At the end of the day, Nationwide would not accept the new business Plans until Nationwide numbers were plugged in. If any amount of money was left over we were to use it for business expenses only. Once again all of this was determined by a form called the MOU (memorandum of understanding and a confidentiality agreement demanded by Nationwide Insurance) I can sit here and write all day of the worst experience of my life. Until you are placed in our shoes, it will be very hard for any one to truly understand and see the big picture. There is so much more to tell and I pray to God that One day I can tell the rest of the story as well. Nationwide created a 3 year plan and sold us all on a dream that it can be done if we followe Nationwide’s created sales plan. Out of good will and faith, I trusted Nationwide Insurance. Yet if you go into their website they state that any new Insurance agent who is starting an agency from scratch would need a minimum 5 year plan. Yet Nationwide set us up for a plan to succeed in 3 years? This wasn’t realistic, especially when our economy was facing financial hardship. Not even a top agent as myself who made conference of Champions during the first year into the program would have pulled this off. Sad to say, “yes, we were not set up to succeed” Sincerely, “Me”

      • January 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm
        Mr. Solvent says:
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        I don’t want you to take offense to what I’m about to say. I understand your circumstances and the AE program probably looked good on paper. That said, if you have 4 children and you’re going it alone, what made you think you could be in business for yourself? The amount of hours required to launch even a moderately successful insurance agency are astounding. Did they not make this clear to you?

        I know financed agents that made it through the program and I know those who didn’t. It’s my opinion that you weren’t set up to fail so to speak, you were setup to be a mega agent from day one. It’s nearly impossible.

        To make it as an agent in low premium states, you have to be prepared to work by yourself for a long period of time and work many hours. You have to be prepared to starve your first year. You have to multi-line everyone you talk to. Once you’ve got 600 or 700 households then you can think about bringing on someone part time.

        Hopefully you’ve learned from this experience. Insurance isn’t a bad way to make a living, but it certainly isn’t pretty to start. If you give it another go, don’t go captive.

        • January 4, 2013 at 4:48 pm
          MeIsEinstein says:
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          Mr Solvent said it perfectly. In all honesty it does appear as if you bit more than you could chew (not defending Nationwide). Many new agents think they can make it in this biz only to crash and burn 6 months later. And yes, if you re-enter the game IA is the way to go. God bless and wish you best.

      • January 4, 2013 at 4:38 pm
        Agent says:
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        Wow, how did you keep your sanity during this time? I thank God everyday that I am Independent and not Captive. A few years ago, I was sent a letter by a local Nationwide agent offering to buy me. I laughed it off since I knew I could buy and sell her agency in a heartbeat. A couple of years later, she was gone and replaced by another agent. Nationwide is a troubled company with stupid management, much like Allstate which has been driving their agents crazy for some time.

        • July 16, 2018 at 11:10 pm
          NGWL says:
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          AMEN!!!

      • January 4, 2013 at 4:51 pm
        Rosenblatt says:
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        I’m sorry to hear about your troubles, but I hope you didn’t just violate your non-disclosure agreement with this post!

        • January 4, 2013 at 5:02 pm
          Agent says:
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          She did say “former” agent and she didn’t identify herself. I have a feeling she is one of those 70 other Nationwide agents that might join in the class action. In any case, they have a problem and it is going to get expensive.

      • January 4, 2013 at 6:34 pm
        Friend of this former female agent says:
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        I happen to know this former female agent and she was a top performing agent that knocked it out of the park! She worked tirelessly and managed to be a mother at the same time. I have the utmost respect for her. She wanted a better life for her family and worked hard for it. One would never think a large corporation would do something like this to people. I don’t know how anyone can look themselves in the mirror on a daily basis while destroying lives. She has been in the industry for many years, she was not a newbie. She was recruited by a Nationwide sales officer that she knew for many years because of her talents and abilities. Don’t assume she didn’t know what she was getting into and don’t assume she bit off more than she could chew. Until you live this nightmare, you don’t know anything. Once again, when you are told that you are failing the program and shown false reports and told that if you don’t sign the new contract, you will lose your agency and all that you worked for. Then, after you don’t have a choice, you find out at the end of the year, you actually were above your goal!! This alone proves intentional failure and not on the part of the agent or any fault of the agent. I pray the entire truth comes out in the near future nationally and all over t.v. media. This sounds like fraud to me and corporate greed. It appears that many captives are doing things similar to this. By the way, my friend is doing just fine and yes, she is an insurance agent, just not with this company. Seems to me that management changes are in order here!

        • January 4, 2013 at 9:27 pm
          Mr. Solvent says:
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          You can’t have it both ways. If Nationwide was so sinister they wouldn’t have recruited her for her talent, they would have recruited her because she would buy in.

          Frankly I spent years in the industry before opening an agency and nothing could have prepared me for it.

          I’m not bashing your friend or Nationwide here. The fact is very few are prepared to run a mega agency and Nationwide wants it overnight. Others that finance agents have similar success rates.

          • January 5, 2013 at 4:15 pm
            Friend of this former female agent says:
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            Mr. Solvent – just so you know. It’s not about having it both ways. You don’t know what they did and they had a contract that THEY CHANGED AFTER YOU WERE IN FOR A YEAR TO THEIR ADVANTAGE. If you didn’t sign it, they told you that you would be terminated and lose everything that you had been working so hard for. Just a little explanation for you and believe me, there is so much more to the story than meets the eye!

          • January 28, 2013 at 8:28 pm
            Former NW SalesManager says:
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            Mr. Solvent doesn’t know the situation and won’t take your word for it, so just ignore. Mr. Solvent: I’m telling you as a former SM for Nationwide, that many people were appointed to this program without regard to their prospects for success. Nationwide bought the market initially with their prices, jacked up the prices later on, changed the contract without having the AEs sign a new one and then blamed the poor agents when it all started crashing down. EVERYTHING that this company did during this time (and that they continue to do even now) had catastrophe written all over it. There is another program out there called ACB where agents are put into an incubator program (as sort-of company employees – they aren’t independent contractors, but don’t get full employee benefit prices or the ability to contribute to a 401k, etc.). I and a couple of other sales managers asked the director of all program agent programs (during a break between breakout sessions at a sales conference for SMs) a question. The question was this: How will an independent contractor agent survive his contract if he or she “graduates” the ACB program with only $200,000 in premium? With his/her renewals, how will he/she get to $1.2 million in premium in two or three years? $1.6 million in three or four years? The answer: We’re not talking about that today. We are here to discuss a different topic. Then we said, ok, but on a different topic, how will they survive??? The answer was, we don’t know that, but we aren’t here to discuss that now…Nationwide either knew what they were doing and it was very sinister or they were the most stupid, “strategy-less” folks who ever stayed in business for 87 years…

            There is a lot more I could tell you about how they treated these agents, but I guess I should just call it good. If you really want to know what is going on, find their biggest agents, buy them a few drinks and ask them about the direction that Nationwide is going in…there is a lady there who is very high up in the executive chain who has stated in several meetings that, if your agency is not $4million + and not the Agent of Tomorrow, we don’t want you. She didn’t say that to the agents who are less than $4million though.

  • January 3, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    Independent Agent says:
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    I worked at Nationwide for 10 years. There is a great deal of money being spent to get successful insurance agents – not just by Nationwide but by any broker or direct writer looking to continue to generate sales. Success in this business is not something a majority of the starters find. The support cash and the potential to be an independent agent at the end of the process, certainly sounds like great opportunity. Based on what is here it certainly looks like there is more detail. Or the paper trail on the money does not support the process/plan they had set up. It is a tough business to start out scratch in. It takes much more than 3 years for the payback on a new sales person supported with money.

  • January 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm
    MeIsEinstein says:
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    So you mean to tell me Nationwide is not on my side?!

    • January 3, 2013 at 2:01 pm
      Sargent Major says:
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      They are almost as good as “The good hands people”

      • January 3, 2013 at 2:36 pm
        Agent says:
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        Sargent, Ask an Allstate Agent if they like how they have been treated by their management the last few years. They had to form a guild to deal with them. Most would kill for Independent Agent status.

  • January 3, 2013 at 1:58 pm
    Terry says:
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    Nationwide has a long history of trying to screw insurance agents and that is clearly illustrated by all the litigation they have had with their agents. That litigation can be found by reading Ohio Appeals Court transcripts.

  • January 3, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    johnny says:
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    Nationwide isn’t the only outfit scamming agents. If the attorney is really interested in a Class Action suit there are many, many agents at Farmers that would join-in…suggest the attorney contact United Farmers Agents Association. Best wishes to the Nationwide agent that had the guts to fight-back!

  • January 3, 2013 at 2:00 pm
    Sargent Major says:
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    If you believe the article it looks like there were two fools who did business together, Lucarell and Nationwide. Lucarell, if you believe she blew the money on cars, a second house and “elective” surgeries and Nationwide for not having better a loan and accounting ad collection process for the money they gave her. I have never been associated with Nationwide but looks like a lot of sloppy business practices on both parties.

    • January 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm
      UCT says:
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      Before judging someone for an “elective” surgery, you may want to learn what falls under the term “elective”. I REQUIRED surgery on my torn rotator cuff. The surgery was not life threatening, therefore ruled elective. Sure, it wasn’t life threatening, but if I ever wanted to use my left arm again, it WAS necessary. I tore a tendon in my foot. Again, it was “elective” surgery. Without the surgery, I would not have been able to walk. Why/how is that elective? lol I don’t know this lady, but to judge her on a surgery is pretty harsh. If it turns out she was getting lip injections or a tummy tuck, then by all means, tear her apart. If was a real surgery, elective or not, it was likely very much needed.

    • March 6, 2013 at 1:52 pm
      rookie says:
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      Sergent Major, I agree. Both sides used poor business practices. But, shame on Nationwide Insurance. They continued to provide Lucarell funding when it was clear as day she would not make her plan. A person would think that her manager and the managers up the line would be looking for jobs, but I have seen Nationwide protect managers that get them sued. It is like Nationwide feels it would look bad for them if they fired them. I have been around since 1977 with Nationwide. They are not the same company today they were back then. It is all about their greed.

      • March 7, 2013 at 8:55 am
        Former Agent Advocate says:
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        Rookie – I agree with most of what you said. The only piece of information you have wrong is about the funding. The 400 – 600 AE agents had to EARN quarterly disbursements from their loans and had to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on various expenses per Nationwide’s direction. Even “Female Former Agent” confirms this. By the way, it goes much further than the sales managers up the line. This isn’t about Lucarell, this is about a cold calculated plan to benefit the company and destroy all of the agents. Pure greed, plain and simple.

  • January 3, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    Txagt39 says:
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    A perfect example of how bad karma runs full circle. I fully believe it will hold true with other companie’s business practices to hose up tenured agents in favor of the favored few and/or new recruits who have yet to ponder all their friends and family’s business before they are put out to pasture. Greed is being repaid in full. I only hope this case sets the tone and other carrier’s doing the same will take notice.

  • January 3, 2013 at 2:59 pm
    Jerry says:
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    Let the buyer beware. I started my own independent agency in 1989 with zero customers and like William am still hanging in there. Nationwide contacted me several years ago. I did not want to get into financials with them because freedom and control of my time is more important to me than money. In my opinion, going from zero premium to 600,000 in 3 years is completely unrealistic. A lot of agents end up with these direct writers because the independent agent companies do not give out contracts to agents with no experience or book of business to roll. Allstate has contacted me several times but I just said no. They too want to control your time and how you operate.

    • January 3, 2013 at 3:23 pm
      Mr. Solvent says:
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      We’re fortunate in Florida that only one captive actively seeks out independents. I wouldn’t do it under any circumstances short of a large buyout with no non-compete. Since that would never happen it looks like I’ll keep on truckin.

  • January 3, 2013 at 3:14 pm
    Former Agent's Friend says:
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    I can tell you first hand that the whole story is definately not published here and it should be obvious why Nationwide is trying to “trash” this person. They have finally been caught and they LOST IN A BIG WAY!!! These are lies about what was purchased and so called surgeries and it was all testified to at the trial and the jury heard every word and saw all of the evidence. It’s called facts, law and the truth. Her agency was also a 1.8 million dollar agency from scratch! They are conveniently taking her 3 1/2 years of hard work and placing it on a 12 month moving basis here. Before you comment, you should know the entire story. Why don’t you ask Nationwide why Exhibit A from their 1st contract was conveniently “missing” from all of the AE’s files??? Maybe because it was a cumulative program that they conveniently changed to a 12 month moving basis to fail all of these agents and take what they worked so hard for. Also, ask about their document retention program to “go green” which was deleting hundreds of thousands of emails. Convenient? Destroying evidence? Believe me, the entire truth was out there and now hundreds more can come forward. I applaud Christine and I admire and respect her every day for having the guts to stand up for truth, justice and hundreds of strangers! Don’t assume people – remember what “assume” stands for!

    • January 4, 2013 at 4:50 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
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      going green deletes hundreds of thousands of emails? maybe if you printed every email up, but if it’s stored on a server, it can sit there ad infinitum without negatively impacting the environment, right??

      • January 4, 2013 at 5:38 pm
        Agent says:
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        Just don’t break one of those Obama light bulbs or you will have to call Hazmat out there with their Environmental suits to clean up the toxic chemicals.

  • January 3, 2013 at 3:30 pm
    Lonestar says:
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    Nationwide, Farmers and Allstate are all playing by the same playbook: Stealing agencies by terminating appointments, then handing these policies over to a service center or giving the policies at half commission to a newby agent. Instead of growing the business organically, companies are trying to find ways to reduce agent’s commissions. If agents do not band together and fight this, we will all be dealing with this issue at some point, whether it be on the captive side or IA side. I say GODSPEED to her, and anyone like her!

    • January 3, 2013 at 5:43 pm
      MeIsEinstein says:
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      Indeed, “MAYHEM” is everywhere…

    • January 3, 2013 at 7:23 pm
      Wayne says:
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      Lonestar, they sell the books to agents, not give.

      Every captive insurance company has a large number of former agents that feel they have been taken advantage of. Many file suit but very few win.

      My advice as a former company field sales manager, read the contract, understand what is in it, ask the hard questions; it is better to be eliminated for being diligent than to lose everything. And, don’t sign contract amendments or addendums, they aren’t going to change the contract to benefit you, ever!

      • January 3, 2013 at 10:34 pm
        Lonestar says:
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        Depending on who “they” are, you may be correct. However, as far as FIG goes, I have personally witnessed Farmers DMs “give” entire agencies to newby agents, at half code. And Farmers is stilling doing this today. Guess where the “seed” policies are coming from most of the time? Agents who have been given their 90 termination notice for no cause. Ask the 400 FIG agents in south Texas who had their agencies stolen from them in 2010, and terminated for no cause. You are correct, people should read the contracts before they sign. But with Farmers, and I assume with other companies, the contract is not presented ahead of time, and only at the time the newby is pressured to sign on the spot. When I signed my agreement with FIG a decade ago, the DMM glanced over most of the contract. When we discussed the 90 day “no cause” termination clasue, we, like many other agents, were told to not worry about that, because Farmers never fires anyone without a reason, such as embezzlement.

  • January 3, 2013 at 5:25 pm
    Nationwide Sales Mgr says:
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    Nationwide didn’t want agents to fail. As long as they could grow an agency with 1 company from $0 to 2.6 million in 3 years we would love to have them. We didn’t like getting paid bonuses for hiring agents we knew would fail. We didn’t like selling their books to existing agents for .75% gross commission. We also didn’t like getting a tax deduction for waiving loans especially when agents didn’t receive all their money. I’m sorry agents lost their marriages, filed bankruptcy or tried to commit suicide. We had no choice. We had to grow profitably and this was the only way we could do it. I hope everyone understands.

    • January 4, 2013 at 8:40 am
      jw says:
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      Why do you say “we didn’t like”? I get the impression you did things you knew were wrong, but felt pressured to do them. Did I misunderstand what you meant?

    • January 4, 2013 at 9:19 am
      jw says:
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      Wait a minute, did I miss the joke? Not enough caffeine before I hit reply, sorry. Carry on.

    • January 4, 2013 at 11:31 am
      Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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      No different from Mitt Romney and Bain Capital. But when they do it, many on this board say it’s just “good business sense” and “people should stop being pathetic, whining freeloaders”. When it affects agents (hits close to home), then it’s a different story.

      • January 8, 2013 at 2:28 pm
        Bob says:
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        Don’t Call Me Shirley:

        Hi Captain! I was thinking it was you for some time, but the tone in this comment and the lack of common sense made it obvious.

        Moving forward:

        This is NOT the same as Bain Capital. Bain Capital moved in to give “capital” to failing companies, or to buy ownership, or to restructure the firm. The key thing was “failing” companies.

        Staples grew to a size that is insane, and the owner gives 100% of the credit to Bain.

        Bain doesn’t restructure contracts to make you fail. It created jobs. It didn’t destroy them. Bain capital doesn’t benefit from you failing. Nationwide benefits from the agents failing and then keeping the books.

        This is by no means any bit similar, and the fact that you would suggest it shows you are a fool.

        And the only fool I know who is partisan and dumb enough to make that comment is Planet. Your speech style is also nearly identical.

        So yeah, knock it off, do some research, and grow up Planet.

        • January 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm
          Agent says:
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          I was thinking the same thing Bob about Planet. Anyone who goes off demonizing Bain is a fool. I have not seen a shred of evidence that Bain deliberately bought companies to make them fail. They are in the rehab business for already failing companies. In most cases, they made a lot of them successful again by running them smartly and putting the needed capital in them. In Nationwides situation, they took successful agents, changed the contracts which guaranteed failure. They were definitey not on their agent’s side.

  • January 3, 2013 at 5:30 pm
    Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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    Bottom line, guess who pays for all the “punitive damages” in these cases? I’ll give you a hint: not the CEOs.

    • January 3, 2013 at 5:53 pm
      Agent says:
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      I believe Nationwide is a Mutual owned by their policyholders. I wonder where their proxy votes will go when considering whether to retain the CEO and his minions. They may not like company funds being paid out to settle the impending suits from agents.

      • January 3, 2013 at 6:09 pm
        Nationwide Sales Mgr says:
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        The CEO for Nationwide who was in charge during the AE program is long gone. Jerry Jurgensen got a golden parachute back in 2009 and is now living the good life in Arizona. I hear his golf game is pretty good these days.

    • January 28, 2013 at 8:43 pm
      Former NW SalesManager says:
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      I think Don’t Call Me Shirley likes Bain Capital…jeeze!

  • January 3, 2013 at 6:18 pm
    Nationwide CEO says:
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    Look at it this way….my leadership team needed sales growth to justify ad spending and our salaries and our jobs. Where can we get sales growth? Well, we could either set up company stores or we could set up a program for new agents. Or better yet do both! So we set up company stores to compete with our agents and a scratch agent program that is designed in our favor. In this case (Christine Lucarell and the other 500 plus agents) our program was designed, implemented and a year into it we realized it was tilted too much in favor of the new agents. Big problem for us. What do we do? We called our legal department and asked them how we can get ourselves out of this mess and tilt the program back in our favor. No regrets on our part. It’s just business. So what if less than ten survive. We’ll have them all so broke by the time we take their agencies they can’t afford to litigate against us. We survive. The Board of Directors knows nothing. Phew.

  • January 3, 2013 at 9:56 pm
    Veritas says:
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    I hope a sizeable chunk of her lawsuit is upheld after the appeal.It’s very hard to win lawsuits against insurance companies due to their immense advantage in financial assets & access to legal talent.

    • January 4, 2013 at 9:34 am
      Agent says:
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      If several dozen other agents join this in a class action, Nationwide will not like their bottom line after all the defense costs and settlements are factored in. That is not to mention all the adverse publicity they will get.

  • January 4, 2013 at 11:49 am
    Agent says:
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    From the Columbus Dispatch – notice the major growth was when these AE’s were brought in. This growth was during this program – no more needs to be said here folks. Obvious!

    Under Jurgensen’s leadership, Nationwide saw steady growth.

    The company’s net income was $170 million in 2002, rose to $1 billion in 2004 and was about $2 billion in both 2006 and 2007, Nationwide spokesman Joe Case said.

    • January 4, 2013 at 5:32 pm
      Agent says:
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      Are you copying my moniker? Change to Agent#2 or something so we don’t get confused. Thanks, Agent

  • January 4, 2013 at 8:08 pm
    Patrick says:
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    I was recruited by NW in 2006 and left a six figure income to start my agency. Used the loan to build a 4 location 1.5 Million book that had a 32% loss ratio at my termination in september 2009. I was 130% of plan when they came in and gave me termination papers. I was personally and financially devastated. They gave my book of business to a new employee agent that just completed training. I lost everything. I had 4 leases and many other obligations that comes with running a business including 10 employees. I haven’t thought about those bumbs in years and when I saw this case I couldn’t have been more happy for the Plaintiff.

    • January 5, 2013 at 11:09 am
      Former Agent's Friend says:
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      Patrick – you should join the class action. Get the justice you deserve! Good Luck.!!

    • January 9, 2013 at 10:08 am
      Agent says:
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      Patrick, I am not sure I understand your numbers. Are you saying your book of business was $1.5 million or your revenue from your book was that much? I have a $7 million book and I wouldn’t try to support 4 locations with all that overhead on the revenue received on that book. Actually, if you grew from nothing to $1.5 million in 3 years, you were putting a lot of business on the books. It is hard for me to believe Nationwide could be unhappy with a growing agent and a nice loss ratio.

  • January 5, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    Anonymous says:
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    I worked as an associate agent fo over 10 years built up over 2 miilion dollar block of business. Agent let me go and took my renewals. Don’t ever become an associate agent.

    • January 7, 2013 at 10:14 am
      Agent says:
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      If I had an associate agent/producer in my agency that produced a $2million book, they would have exalted status. This sounds like a personality conflict. Did you demand ownership in the agency? We have contracts in our agency about rights, commission percents on business, the agency obligations and the producers obligations to the agency. You should have had a contract in place and he couldn’t have done this to you.

  • January 5, 2013 at 2:43 pm
    Libby says:
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    Can anyone say “Brooke Franchise” here? They did the same thing and were forced into bankruptcy, invetigated by the FBI and charges filed by the SEC against 4 officers. I worked for these crooks and saw the writing on the wall when they tried to force me as an Area Manager into assisting in the scamming and bilking of my 18 agency owners. I left with no other job and gave testimony to the SEC. Was glad to see them go down the tubes and will be glad to see Nationwide follow in their footsteps. They’re parasitic leeches.

    • January 7, 2013 at 1:00 pm
      Agent says:
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      Libby, we were solicitated to join a “Franchise” group one time in order to gain access to more markets etc. They painted a rosy picture on all their advantages. I am glad we didn’t fall for their line because it led to big trouble for a lot of agents on ownership of business, commission problems and outright fraud at the top. There is a price to be paid on some business arrangements. Some learned the hard way.

  • January 6, 2013 at 9:16 pm
    Truth says:
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    Read the contracts. This suit will be dropped with no damage to NW.

    • January 7, 2013 at 9:18 am
      Former Agent Also says:
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      You obviously work for Nationwide or their law firm. I can’t wait until the class action suit is filed. You know what you did and so does everybody else. You are definately not “on the side” of truth.

      • January 8, 2013 at 5:50 pm
        johnny says:
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        To Insurance Journal…Thank you for publishing this story regarding Nationwide. Judging from the number and intensity of the responses you’ve hit a “raw-nerve”. Many captive agents from a number of different companies believe they’re being dealt with unfairly. Please consider doing a larger “expose”…there’s a Pulitzer Prize awaiting someone willing to do the investigative-journalism to expose the “nasty” nature of how some insurance companies abuse their agents!

        • January 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm
          Former Agent's Friend says:
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          With the tenacity and drive of Christine Lucarell, I would not be surprised to see this story on national television! It is time for the entire nation to hear what Nationwide has done to so many and what the other captives are doing as well.

    • January 28, 2013 at 8:41 pm
      Former NW SalesManager says:
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      which contract? The one that the AEs signed and no sales manager could get a copy of later on (it mysteriously disappeared for EVERY agent who signed it – luckily the AEs kept their copies) OR the copy that the company DID have that was never signed by the AEs. Nationwide spent a lot of money on the wrong people with their recruiting, but some of the folks that they hired were good, tried to believe in them and stay with it and they were financially ruined by the company that the entrusted with their life savings.

  • January 7, 2013 at 11:48 am
    Terry says:
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    Your title is deliberately meant to inflame readers which makes whoever who put the headline on the article less than professional. Of course, an attorney is behind the award. Do you think Nationwide would admit it’s guilt on their own?

    • January 7, 2013 at 12:43 pm
      Former Agent Also says:
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      I think they are just trying to make others aware that a class action is being filed. Of course they won’t admit their guilt, do they ever? The old moniker of “we have settled but admit no guilt” is the usual. I think it’s quite obvious to all that they are guilty though. It’s just a shame that they got away with this for so many years and hurt so many people. Shame, shame, shame on them! What goes around truly does come around as they say.

  • January 18, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    Former Nationwide Sales Manager says:
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    As a former sales manager with Nationwide, I can tell you that I hired 4 agents in the years 2006-2008, even though the Nationwide regional leadship (not at the sales manager level) knew that they were going in to a catastophe management/containment program in the area due to tropical storm exposure. 2 of the 4 agents failed, I know of one agent that told me he had to file for bankruptsy, not sure of the other agent. One agent just quit due to personal reasons, did not fail. The one agent that survived did so only after being seeded some accounts from other failed agencies.

    The other manager that shared the market adjacent to mine hired 8 agents, again, 7 failed. This Sales manager got promoted and reassigned, so did not have to suffer the consequence of his/her failed market…basically washed his hands of any responsibility. Another sales manager hired 11 agents, none stayed more than 2 years–100% failed. Overall, of the several new scratch agents that were hired in this region, it would be safe to say an 85% to 95% failure rate is a good estimate.

    From a managerial perspective, Nationwide was heartless in its actions regarding put-on process for new agents. I was glad I wasn’t held accountable to bring on any more agents than I did, as I feel awful about the 2 agents I assured they were making the right career decision to leave good jobs to become (ultimately) community-respected wealthy agency owners. Nationwide knows what they’ve done and now will have to pay the price of their wrondoing.

  • February 20, 2013 at 10:26 am
    Follower says:
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    What is taking place with the appeal? 2-18-13 was the first hearing/motion.

    • February 25, 2013 at 8:14 am
      Former Agent says:
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      I haven’t heard a word. I’ve called the law firm several times but I haven’t received a response.

  • February 25, 2013 at 10:37 am
    Former Agent Also says:
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    The post trial motions hearing was held on 02/20 & 02/21. Nationwide attempted to relitigate their entire case that the jury already rendered their verdict upon. I know they are waiting for the judge to make the final rulings on the motion for a new trial and the motion to set aside the jury’s verdict. Justice must be served for Christine and for all of us they have committed this heinous fraud upon!!

  • February 25, 2013 at 6:56 pm
    Linette Cohen - AE Advocate says:
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    FOR RELEASE: IMMEDIATELY!

    Public Relations firm to join Lucarell team

    Rubenstein Associates selected to represent Christine Lucarell, former Nationwide agent recently awarded $42.8M by a jury against Nationwide Mutual Insurance Co.

    Boardman insurance advocate says Nationwide’s appeal strategy is to discredit her

    Boardman, Ohio, February 22 — Christine Lucarell of Boardman, former Nationwide

    Insurance agent recently awarded a $42.8 million jury verdict against the insurance giant, has retained Rubenstein Associates (VC Rubenstein Associates, Inc.), a national public relations firm located in the Mahoning Valley, to represent her.

    She believes Nationwide is trying to denigrate her and her family in the eyes of the community and industry, and points to Nationwide news releases and resultant articles that have been filled with a barrage of untruths.

    As a result, Lucarell says, upon the advice of colleagues in Cleveland, she has selected the public relations firm of Rubenstein Associates to represent her.

    “First and foremost,” she says, “we must take Nationwide to task for the lies they’re promulgating about me and about my family.” She insists that since the Mahoning County jury awarded her $42.8 million, Nationwide has deliberately stated and re-stated fabrications that were proved, during the trial, to be deceptive and aversionist.

    We shall respond vigorously to the lies Nationwide has been disseminating, which are intended to not only discredit me, but to deter other agents from taking similar legal action against them,” she said.

    Lucarell confirmed that she has been contacted for interviews and discussions with literary agents and publicists.

    Vic Rubenstein, a Director of Rubenstein Associates, states that the real issue at stake is “the reputation of Christine Lucarell and her family and the potential impact she can have upon the insurance industry and as an advocate for small business owners throughout the U.S.”

    Rubenstein added that “the $36 million in punitive damages was intended by the jury to discourage Nationwide from participating in future scams such as this, but means little to the multibillion-dollar insurance giant.”

    “What will ultimately force Nationwide to take a second look at their business practices is separating their lies from the truth, and job one on that front is articulating these truths through news and information media, interviews, books, a possible documentary or commercial film, speaking engagements and social networking,” he said.

    He believes Lucarell will become “a very serious advocate.”

    A Mahoning County jury awarded the amount on Lucarell’s suit for breach of contract, retaliation, and for fraudulently inducing her to join the Nationwide Agent Executive Program. The civil lawsuit asserted that Nationwide created “unsustainable” monthly production quotas that allowed it, under its unconscionable AE Program contract, to stop funding her agency, thereby depriving it of the funds needed to operate her Boardman insurance agency, even though those funds were hers — from a loan that Nationwide required her to take out from the Nationwide Federal Credit Union (which later became Nationwide Bank).

    Lucarell claims that Nationwide withheld those funds for the express purpose of choking the life out of her agency and then closing her agency down and co-opting the book of business she had built.

    Nationwide then engaged in other actions designed to lead Lucarell to resign from the AE Program, including changing the way it measured her production and refusing to give her a bonus she had earned.

    Lucarell’s attorney asked the jury to award her compensatory damages of $5 million, and punitive damages in the amount of one-twelfth of Nationwide’s net profit for 2012.

    It awarded her $5.7 million for lost profits, $1 million for emotional damages, $100,000 for her retaliation-based emotional damages, and $36 million for punitive damages.

    The actual dollar award will be determined when final post -trial motions are completed and a decision rendered by the judge.

    “Nationwide’s intent … was to fail the AE agents and terminate their agencies once the agents generated a profitable book of business for Nationwide, but before the agents completed their production period,” Lucarell’s complaint states.

    Vic Rubenstein underscores that, in exposing Nationwide’s business practices, Lucarell hopes to be the catalyst for changing the way the captive insurance industry does business.

  • February 27, 2013 at 3:13 pm
    Pro Agent says:
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    Nationwide needs to pay dearly for all the wrong that they have done with the AE Plan. Pure manipulation, greed and cover up. I hope that the masterminds of this program sleep well at night.

  • February 27, 2013 at 3:53 pm
    Former AE On A Mission says:
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    To Former Agent – I can tell you that if you call (440)544-1122 at ext. 102 and leave your name, address, phone number & email address on the voice mail, you will receive the appropriate documents. I did this and I received my paperwork. Good Luck and I’m sure justice will prevail!!

  • March 20, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    Former Agent says:
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    Does anyone know when the AE class action will be filed?

    • March 21, 2013 at 2:55 pm
      Former AE On A Mission says:
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      To Former Agent – I heard by April 1st from another former agent yesterday.

  • April 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm
    Former Agent says:
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    Has anyone heard an update on Nationwide’s appeal or the class action? I know the judge lowered the payout to 33 million after the first appeal but I haven’t heard anything since.

  • April 16, 2013 at 4:03 pm
    Former Agent says:
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    April 15, 2103

    YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio – A judge rules that Nationwide Insurance will not get a new trial, after a jury awards a multi-million dollar verdict, in favor of the woman who sued.

    Visitng Judge Thomas Pokorny denied the new trial sought by Nationwide, after former agent Christine Lucarell, won $43 million in damages.

    Lucarell claimed the company’s executive agency program, imposed unrealistic terms on her local agency. The judge also ruled, Lucarell did not commit perjury.

    “When you know you’ve done everything right, you should stand up for yourself and get the justice you deserve. I just want justice for the hundreds of others who are out there in the same shoes,” Lucarell said.

    Vic Rubenstein with Rubenstein & Associates tells 21 News he became involved after the company tried to impune Lucarell’s reputation. He says the judge’s ruling validates her key witness Shelley Aaserud, that she brought in from New York.

    He says this was critical not only to Lucarell’s case but also critical because we don’t know how many former agents are throughout the country.

    Attorney Matthew Ries tells 21 News, the judge reduced the verdict for compensation and punitive damages, which now stands at more than $15 million.

  • April 18, 2013 at 10:17 am
    Victory for the Victims says:
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    Winner of Nationwide Suit Takes Reduction in Stride
    Thursday, April 18, 2013
    By Dennis LaRue
    BOARDMAN, Ohio — People who don’t know Christine Lucarell well are surprised at her serenity about Judge Thomas J. Pokorny’s reduction of the $42.8 million in damages a Mahoning County Common Pleas Court jury awarded her to $13.8 million.

    “Money has not been my paramount concern,” the former agent for Nationwide Insurance says. Her suit against her former employer, Lucarell elaborates, “was about much more than a dollar figure. [During the eight-day trial last October and November,] we’ve exposed Nationwide for what they’ve been doing [to agents like her] over several years — and continue to do.”

    In her suit, Lucarell accused Nationwide of setting her up to fail and then taking over the business she developed. During the trial, she said that what happened to her was happening routinely to 400 other “scratch” agents across the country, that the insurance giant set impossibly high goals for them to meet, no matter how hard they worked, and then took over their clients when they failed.

    Lucarell said her suit “is about justice and the lives that have been adversely affected by the actions of Nationwide Insurance.” As news of the jury decision spread last November, the phones of Groedel & Associates rang much more often, Ries said, as 60 to 70 other Nationwide agents and former agents expressed interest in having the firm represent them. Ries raised the possibility of filing a class action suit against Nationwide.

    The jury of eight men agreed with the plaintiff’s characterization of Nationwide’s agency executive program and how it hurt her emotionally and financially when they awarded her $42.8 million Nov. 5. Nationwide appealed and Pokorny, formerly of the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas bench, ruled Monday that tort reform capped the damages allowed in some categories. He also awarded her attorneys, Caryn Groedel and Mathew Ries, fees in the amount of $187,546.50 and expenses of $21,557.64.

    Groedel and Ries took Lucarell’s case on contingency and will receive 40% of the sum Lucarell wins after Nationwide’s appeal goes to the Ohio 7th District Court of Appeals.

    In the wake of Pokorny’s ruling, a spokeswoman for the insurance company issued this statement: “While Nationwide is pleased with the trial court’s reduction of the award by more than half the amount, it continues to disagree with the verdict and believes that errors were made at trial, which improperly affected the outcome of the case. Nationwide will be filing an appeal in the 7th District Court of Appeals and is confident that its claims will be ruled upon favorably.”

    Lucarell expressed confidence in Pokorny’s fairness and thoroughness, saying she understands he followed and applied the law after reviewing her case and listening to oral arguments Feb. 19 and 20.

    The judge denied attorneys for Nationwide a new trial, saying the only aspect he would consider for a new trial was on the issue of punitive damages, which he capped at $10.8 million, and then only if Lucarell contests that figure. She is not, she emphasized.

    As to other matters Quintin F. Lindsmith and his team of attorneys from Bricker & Eckler raised, Pokorny rejected their arguments. Lindsmith repeatedly accused Lucarell and Shelley Aaserud, the expert witness who testified in her behalf, of perjury. The judge labeled Lindsmith’s characterization of Aaserud as “unfounded in the record. The expert was subjected to extensive discovery depositions and cross-examination at trial. … The defense was given ample opportunity to discredit her. The jury apparently found her credible.”

    As to Lucarell’s testimony, “The Court finds no support in the record that plaintiff’s testimony was untruthful ….” Lucarell was particularly upset at accusations that she had converted funds that Nationwide advanced her to build her practice to her personal use, including fertility treatments.

    “He [Lindsmith] said many things that weren’t true,” Lucarell said. “I could not wait to get up on the witness stand. I was looking forward to it.”

    She had had difficulty conceiving, she told a reporter, but as a devout Roman Catholic, did nothing out of the ordinary to become pregnant. She and her husband “prayed with our priest” and made trips to the National Shrine in North Jackson. “I ended up being blessed by this baby,” she said in her dining room.

    Her daughter, who turned 2 last Jan. 31, is “a gift from God,” Lucarell said. “I feel God answered my prayers with the baby.”

    As she prepared for trial and during the trial, Lucarell said, she prayed again for strength and is grateful that, as Pokorny wrote, “The jury has apparently viewed the defendant’s acts with a high degree of reprehensibility.” While he appreciated the jury’s point of view, Pokorny found the economic damages of $5.7 million the panel awarded “exceeds the amount a jury could reasonably find to be compensatory. The court finds no evidence in the record supporting an award of $100,000 for ‘costs to defend’ the retaliation claim. These awards are therefore excessive.”

    He reduced the economic award to $2.817 million.

    As to how Nationwide treated Lucarell in the agency executive program, Pokorny wrote, “This conduct reaches the level of reprehensibility sufficient to warrant a punitive damage but does not represent a higher degree of reprehensibility nor grave harm occasioned to plaintiffs as seen in other cases.”

    Lucarell says this was the point she was most concerned about, that the agency executive program continues unchanged. “I hope to see other people receiving justice for what they’ve been through,” she said. “I hope I opened the door for them and that I can cheer them on.”

    Copyright 2013 The Business Journal, Youngstown, Ohio.

  • May 7, 2013 at 8:54 am
    Ex AE Agent says:
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    I take away more stress and trauma from the AE program, than I took away from serving in a war zone. Nationwide cut off my funding after building a scratch 1.1 million dollar book in under 3 years. It has been 5 years and I just recieved a certified letter from Nationwide last Friday, demanding that I pay them over $211,000. They took my book of business, sold it to another well established local Agent and still want me to pay them for a book I built, which they sold and made a profit from. I hope that one day there will be justice for the hundreds of people who’s lives were ruined.

    • May 13, 2013 at 7:20 am
      Former Agent says:
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      Hang in there and make sure you are part of the class action. If you have not already done so contact the law firm in Ohio and they’ll tell you what information you need to submit. I’m hoping the class action will be filed soon.

  • May 15, 2013 at 11:18 am
    Super Agent says:
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    Hey gang, so what is everyone so mad about? Peace, love and respect.

  • May 17, 2013 at 1:33 pm
    Former Agent says:
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    The AE class action was declined. Nationwide wins again.

  • May 17, 2013 at 1:41 pm
    Former Agent says:
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    To all former Nationwide AE agents – today’s ruling is a major blow but hold your head high. Even though we can not pursue a class action against Nationwide there is something we can do. Nationwide is continuing to recruit agents (both scratch and independent agents) and setting them up on unsustainable production programs, knowing they will fail. Help spread the word to prevent other lives from being ruined.

  • May 23, 2013 at 5:50 pm
    Caryn M. Groedel, Attorney at Law says:
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    In trying to put the finishing touches on our class action Complaint against Nationwide, it would be very helpful if any of you are or were a manager at Nationwide during the time of the AE Program, or know someone who is or was a manager at Nationwide (“manager” meaning any manager — district, area, or otherwise)at that time, would contact me personally at this email address as opposed to the class action website.
    Thank you.
    Caryn M. Groedel

  • June 3, 2013 at 9:42 am
    AE Advocate says:
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    The class action was not denied. It has to be filed to be denied. Caryn Groedel is still putting everything together. Keep the faith, never give up and keep on fighting for justice. Justice will be served and I am praying for each and every one of you every day!!!

  • October 29, 2013 at 9:53 am
    Ira says:
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    1. Why was an agent granted IC status prior to hitting the minimum production numbers.
    2. Why are agents repaying loans with 10%+ interest rates
    3. Why did agents have to make a split second decision regrind the MOO or be terminated
    4. When will the company be forced to do the right thing and help everyone
    5. Insurance Journal you need to conduct interview with willing AE participants to bring the full story to light.

  • December 12, 2013 at 7:34 am
    Former Agent says:
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    Has anyone heard an update regarding Nationwide’s appeal?

  • January 22, 2014 at 5:00 pm
    Former Nationwide Sales Mgr says:
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    Nationwide forced their Sales Managers to follow orders or be fired regarding the way that agents were threatened and treated. Some managers stood up for the agents and were quickly fired. Nationwide did not “do the right thing” by their agent force and will be held accountable one day. The upper managers at Nationwide are not ethical and it all started when the Allied Management group came over after the hostile take over of Allied by Nationwide. All one would need to ask is ” how do Allied Independent agents feel about Allied upper management. ” Agents across the board have told me that you can not TRUST Allied and Nationwide management. I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. The interesting thing now is how the office of General Council will respond to the pending agent lawsuits when hundreds of agents will testify against Nationwide’s business practices when ALL are testifying and saying the same words — that Nationwide is an evil and corrupt company. It makes me sick when I see ads from Nationwide that say NATIONWIDE IS ON YOUR SIDE. We all know words are cheap and actions really tell the TRUTH. Nationwide is not on anyone’s side. Truth will prevail!!!!!!!

  • January 30, 2014 at 8:54 am
    Former Agent says:
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    Individual lawsuits from AE agents are piling in against Nationwide Insurance. Stay tuned. Nationwide will be held accountable. It’s just a matter of time.

  • January 30, 2014 at 1:03 pm
    Current AE Aent says:
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    I have a meeting with my Agency Manager tomorrow. The numbers in my market area are unrealistic and I do not know what to expect when I approach this. I have been here for two years and have been told that numbers will reset when other agents in the area retire and they merge in their books of business. I was told that the agents would retire in the next year, but they are stating that they will not. I am accruing more and more debt to grow the book, but I am losing more than I am writing because we are not competitive in my market. I would like to get out and was told by my manager not to worry about having to repay the loan for the small book that they sold to me. Is this true? I have surpassed production numbers for the past two years, but I am losing traction because of rate increases and losing business.

    • April 29, 2015 at 12:01 pm
      Christine Lucarell says:
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      Do not believe anything is all I can say. I was told many things and as you can see, they were all lies. Nationwide is on one side only and it is not yours or mine.

  • February 5, 2014 at 12:14 pm
    Maryland agent says:
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    I was an agent for 35 years. Completed the old 3 yr NADP program in 22 months and begged to get the IC contract. The last 2 years as an agent we went from 275 new homeowners a year to 1 per month. Commercial property limited to $250k and no wind. Set up an independant agency with my daughter in charge and they started beating me up for alledgedly transferring the business. I dropped the agency in their lap took the money and ran. Back helping my daughter and really enjoy the business once again. It couldn’t have happened any sooner. Imagine the hipocrisy of paying me one time for commissions and selling for 1.5 times! Exclusive representation conceived in the 50’s and 60’s is no longer relevant. Watch what happens to the Farmers agents in 3-5 years.

  • March 4, 2014 at 10:11 pm
    Bupermark says:
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    I am an independant agent, recently Nationwide contacted me to join.

  • March 6, 2014 at 1:14 pm
    Christine Lucarell says:
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    As you are aware, I was once a very successful Nationwide agent until corporate greed took EVERYTHING from approximately 6,000 agents. YES, THOUSANDS!!

  • March 6, 2014 at 1:26 pm
    Christine Lucarell says:
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    As most of you are aware, I was once a successful Nationwide agent until corporate greed took everything from approximately 6,000 agents. YES, THOUSANDS!!! I believe that Nationwide is doing the following as a direct result of my jury verdict and it’s important to share and be aware for anyone considering becoming an agent for them. I also believe that the general public and policy holders should know what Nationwide has done to so many agents and their families. It is a complete travesty.

    PLEASE BE AWARE THAT NATIONWIDE HAS BEGUN INSERTING A PROVISION IN ITS NEW CONTRACTS, WHICH IT’S NOT TELLING AGENTS ABOUT, STATING THAT THE AGENT GIVES UP HIS/HER RIGHT TO SUE NATIONWIDE IN A COURT OF LAW AND AGREES INSTEAD TO GO TO BINDING ARBITRATION FOR ANY AND ALL CLAIMS RELATING TO THE CONTRACT. EMPLOYEES RARELY WIN ARBITRATIONS. THEY ARE GENERALLY STACKED IN FAVOR OF THE “REPEAT USER” – THE EMPLOYER. ARBITRATION IS OFTEN COSTLY FOR THE PERSON BRINGING IT AS WELL. FILING FEES CAN BE IN THE THOUSANDS, DEPENDING ON THE VALUE OF THE CLAIMS. ALSO, THE ARBITRATOR’S OPINION IS NOT APPEALABLE EXCEPT IN A FEW RARE AND STRICT CIRCUMSTANCES. IT’S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET AN ARIBTRATION DECISION OVERTURNED. I URGE YOU TO SPEAK WITH LEGAL COUNSEL – AND NOT NATIONWIDE’S LEGAL COUNSEL – PRIOR TO SIGNING ANY CONTRACT THAT CONTAINS AN ARBITRATION CLAUSE. READ NATIONWIDE CONTRACTS VERY CAREFULLY—EVERY WORD — BEFORE SIGNING ANYTHING, AND MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE AND CALCULATION BECAUSE YOU WILL BE HEAVILY BOUND TO THOSE OBLIGATIONS.

  • April 7, 2014 at 3:05 pm
    Steve says:
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    Christine,

    When do you expect to get a decision on the appeal of your jury verdict?

  • May 20, 2014 at 6:26 pm
    Ex Sales Manager says:
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    Is there anyone out there that reads this that has a good attorney that is pushing forward against Nationwide. I would like to sue Nationwide and assist in this Agent complaint against this company,

  • May 21, 2014 at 11:42 am
    Christine Lucarell says:
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    To the Ex Sales Manager –

    You should contact my attorney, Caryn Groedel. She can be reached at (440)544-1122 ext. 102. She has several suits that she is currently filing for former agents and people such as yourself. I appreciate that so many people care about what has happened to so many of us, agents and former sales managers, etc…

    I pray that justice will finally be served for all of us. It has been a long time in the making and inevitable in the end. I am currently working on getting our story out nationally for everyone to know what Nationwide has done.

    Good luck to you and God Bless you and all of the rest of us!

    • November 17, 2014 at 11:39 am
      ex sales manager says:
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      Ms. Lucarell, thank you for your comments. It has been a long jouney for you and there are many people just waiting for the final outcome of your trials with Nationwide. I have a couple of questions. What is the current status of you receiving any money from Nationwide? Do you forsee others that endured the same consequenses as you , being successful against Nationwide? Would you take the same path against Nationwide, if you had it to do all over again? Thank you

      • April 29, 2015 at 12:05 pm
        Christine Lucarell says:
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        We are currently waiting for the decision from the appellate court. I know that there are others currently in the midst of litigation. Yes, I would do the same thing that I did. You have to stand up for what is right and be the voice for others that are unable to fight back. Justice will prevail and I pray that Nationwide will have to answer for their actions in the public eye. I believe that the IRS should be looking at what they have been doing.

  • April 16, 2015 at 3:39 pm
    Kathy Vincent says:
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    I am in the appraisal process trying to get paid for a claim Nationwide denied last year. Its a water seepage claim that caused the house to sink along the sewer lines. It is about a $60,000 claim. Evidence that this is a valid claim and should be paid is overwhelming. Nationwide has already paid thousands to defend the denial. The agent is very arrogant knowing Nationwide will never pay this. I hired a public adjuster that charges nothing up front but gets paid 25% of the claim if successful. My adjuster and Nationwide appointed an umpire who is supposed to be a neutral party but they usually side with the insurance company. I was not told I would have to pay for the umpire. The umpire came to my home months ago. I had to send an email to follow up on his decision. His response to my email was a bill for $2500 that I had to pay before he will release his decision to me. Even if he finds my claim to be valid Nationwide can and most likely will still not pay. I can then file a lawsuit which Nationwide will pay millions to defend. I know this claim will never be paid but may file the lawsuit so it will be public record.

    • April 29, 2015 at 12:06 pm
      Christine Lucarell says:
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      Nationwide will pay millions to avoid paying one dollar from what I have seen. I’m sorry to hear of your situation and my heart goes out to you. #NotOnYourSide

  • July 21, 2015 at 11:04 am
    james says:
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    nationwide broke law in my clame they found out I file complant with ohio board of inshrace and change the clames
    they also lied to ohio board of inshacace investagetor stating they don’t recored ph calls in clames department, they never went after the people who stoll the stuff but all was fired,
    they went as far as to fix it we cant disbute one the clames to do so they would just raise our rates, they keep clame allway back to 2003 on me till I file a complant then that disappeared. I got them tell me about the clame 2003, everything was listed then disapeard, they report every thing to clews. but refuse to take off one clame that they never paid out on, this went so wrong as agent his self not acting from nation wide told use they going rase our dedutable or drop us. this came from the agent not nationwide, I ask get new agent he refused, so I sent him email saying he will transfer us or we take leagle action agest him,
    next day we was trasfear. our agent broke tone laws in own right,
    nationwides also lable test equement as tools so they not have to pay on them even the new agent said this was wrong, we know nation wide and home clames u better beable to prove u have it and prove vaule as they went as far going on ebay to get vaule for things ?? really they went on ebay to vaule some my stuff,
    at time we moveing I hurt my back permently I had help electrition to wire home because he did not know how, not a fault of his just how compex the wireing is anyway hospital put me on heavy painmeds and the adjuster said and I qote “so your high on pain killers” ummm no I got hurateded disk and hurting so bad could not walk

    we treated as trash tread like we lieing they change the clames
    and none this we can prove because nationwide change all the clames
    or removed them all to togather

    I learn nationwide is far from on my side I was insulted if they still have the phone calles I prove all this, probem is they got a device keeps u from recoreding any of the calls, there reason for this,
    any lawyer wishs to go after nationwide for this free contack me
    live in cincinnati ohio, the phone calls proves every bit this,
    and they prove nationwides lie to the ohio inshrace board
    but unless I get them nothing more I can do

  • January 6, 2016 at 11:05 pm
    Bubba Davis says:
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    I’m an independent, and Nationwide yanked the rug out from under me and my $3,000,000+ business on the books. Used a technical provision of the agent contract, said contract of course being written by Nationwide to benefit Nationwide. Funny, that technicality was there from day one, but Nationwide was happy to let me help bring in the business, and when they figured they got about as much business volume from me as they could (which is reasonably fair to say, one guy and $3,000,000 is about all you can ask for), there goes the rug. I went from being in the top 10% to a big zero because they didn’t want to pay me anymore. Nothing in life is fair. That’s how it goes. Within two or three years, all that business will be gone from Nationwide, but for now, they have their cake and get to eat it to. Remember agents: Nationwide is NOT on your side.

  • January 7, 2016 at 11:00 am
    Christine Lucarell Oliver says:
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    You need to fight back. We won at the appellate level on December 15th after waiting 8 months for the decision. I am an employee and NOT an independent contractor and so are all of you that were in or are in one of their “programs”. We also won our cross appeal for a new trial against Nationwide for fraud and a new trial for punitive damages on the breach of contract claims that we won. It is time that we stand up and fight for every victim out there and make sure that Nationwide can never get away with any of these schemes again. I AM ON YOUR SIDE and I believe in JUSTICE for ALL!!

  • January 7, 2016 at 11:01 am
    Christine Lucarell Oliver says:
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    Bubba Davis – I am on your side and so is Caryn Groedel (my attorney). You should call her!!!

  • April 28, 2016 at 10:25 am
    Me says:
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    God, I have never worked for a more generous company that Nationwide. During those agent programs money was poured into single agents to help acquisition of market share. There has never been a program that takes an average-joe and gives them gobs of money to become an agent, these programs did. And with the intention of increasing reach and marketshare. Nationwide lost money because they gambled on new agents that couldn’t handle working in an exclusive environment during a time of recession. I have little sympathy for people who were given a free ride to success and then cry when they fail. The only rug pulled from under you was the one you failed to maintain.

  • May 20, 2016 at 12:44 pm
    Me too says:
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    God wonders why 95% of the 500+ AE program agents failed, had their agreements terminated, lost all revenues and had to sign a release to get Nationwide to eat their bad loans. You don’t ask someone to sign a release and eat $300K if you didn’t do anything wrong.

    I would know I was one who made it out.

    Stay tuned this case went from breach of contract to flat out Fraud. With a fraud verdict the tort reform CAPS go away.

    Real generous company when their business model only has 5% make it and those people most likely are paying NW back the loan x2 at 9% interest.

    How much do you owe Nationwide now, Me?

  • May 20, 2016 at 9:06 pm
    Christine Lucarell Oliver says:
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    “Me” obviously works for Nationwide. There isn’t a soul out there that would agree with what you wrote that was victimized by this program or one of the countless others. I was a VERY successful agent that actually completed my program and was shown false reports to make me believe that I was failing when in fact, I was not. I have been in the industry for 20+ years, not the “average joe” as you put it. I would not consider the victims that lost their homes, careers, spouses, etc… to be given a free ride as you put it either. Shame on you and you obviously don’t know what you are talking about. Justice will prevail and everyone will know how Nationwide committed fraud soon enough (I will make sure of it)and I pray for all of the victims and one of my friends lost his life because of what they did so please take your vicious words elsewhere. You say that you have little sympathy for people, well I have little sympathy for ignorance. The law is the law and you cannot get away with an injustice forever. Nationwide didn’t lose anything, they profited off of these victims and you know it.

  • May 24, 2016 at 10:42 pm
    V Mars says:
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    Christine,

    There are many current and former employees at Nationwide who support agents and customer that need someone to help fight against what Nationwide is currently doing to its customers, employees and agents. There are so much illegal practices going on and no one to tell. These employees have no where to go. Do you think Christine could help?

    I applaud you for all you have done to fight Nationwide. They think no one can!

  • June 7, 2016 at 2:06 pm
    Me too says:
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    The below sounds like the big insurance companies and big business community are wanting the OH Supreme Court to ignore the facts of this case and help Nationwide get out of this mess.

    The 7th District Court decision “fundamentally alters the law of contracts, fraud and punitive damages in Ohio, affecting nearly every business transaction in the state,” Nationwide said in its memorandum urging the state’s top court to hear its appeal.

    Nationwide’s appeal to the state’s top court, filed Monday, was accompanied by two friend-of-the-court briefs on its behalf, one from the insurance industry and the other from broader business interests. One of the briefs was from the Ohio Insurance Institute, the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies and the Association of Ohio Life Insurance Companies –

    The other was from the Ohio Alliance for Civil Justice, the Ohio Chamber of Commerce and the Ohio Manufacturers’ Association

    • June 19, 2016 at 12:55 am
      Christine Lucarell Oliver says:
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      Isn’t it ironic how these briefs from the Ohio Alliance for Civil Justice, the Ohio Chamber of Commerce and the Ohio Manufacturers’ Association are written in support of a company that put approximately 400 small businesses out of business in Ohio?

  • June 23, 2016 at 11:16 am
    Me too says:
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    Federal Court orders Nationwide to pay $8M for bad faith. Read this and is how a possible $100K settlement for a wrongful death turned into a $8m mistake and more evidence of corporate bad faith alive inside Nationwide.

    http://www.ibamag.com/news/federal-court-orders-nationwide-to-pay-8m-for-negligence-bad-faith-33822.aspx

  • September 30, 2016 at 11:07 am
    Steve Boone says:
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    Attn: All Nationwide AE agents that signed the 1st Modification.

    I have file a complaint with the Ohio State Bar Association. See my letter in part below.

    If you signed the 1st modification please email me.

    svboone@earthlink.net

    I would like to know what Nationwide told you about the refinance of the loan before you agreed to sign. I also would like to know what the actual terms of your refinance were when you requested it. I will not publish your name if you want to remain anonymous.

    I would like to send your statements to the OSBA to back up what Nationwide’s attorney confirmed in emails to my attorney before everyone signed the 1st Modification.

    If I win the verdict in my law suit against Nationwide, I plan to ask them to set up a $10M fund to be distributed out to all the victims that signed their 1st Modification and had their refinancing terms changed as the result of fraud for self enrichment. I have been waiting 2 1/2 years to show the courts these emails. Still waiting. I am sorry this is taking so long but I have not forgotten about you all. Please help me get this email out to anyone you know who signed the 1st Modification.

    September 25, 2016

    TO Ohio State Bar Association Via Email osba@ohiobar.org
    Attn: Grievance and Discipline
    1700 Lake Shore Drive
    Columbus, Ohio 43204

    RE Quintin F. Lindsmith CC’d Via Email
    qlindsmith@bricker.com
    Bricker & Eckler, LLP
    100 South Third Street
    Columbus, Ohio 43215
    614-227-8802

    Dear Sir and Madam,

    My name is Steve Boone. I am writing this letter because I believe Quintin F. Lindsmith and the law firm of Bricker & Eckler, LLP violated many of the Ohio Rules of Professional Conduct. Specifically Rule 4.1: Truthfulness in Statements to others. I am requesting that you review the statements and emails of Quintin F. Lindsmith. (attached)

    In the Fall of 2007 these statements and emails were given to my attorney who was requesting clarification of the Loan terms related to Article 4, Modification to the Loan. Article 4 was part of a new Agent’s Agreement for myself and roughly 400 other agents who were part of the Nationwide AE Western Expansion. Nationwide had asked my attorney Don Downing to participating in the drafting of this agreement with Quintin F. Lindsmith. This new agreement was to take the place of what Nationwide had already admitted was a flawed original agent’s agreement in which the vast majority of roughly 400 agents were facing involuntary termination.

    (remaining body of letter and attached emails removed for space issues)

  • October 9, 2016 at 3:28 pm
    Steve Boone says:
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    To: Insurance Journal

    THANK YOU for allowing us this space for an open discussion of the NW AE program.

    I spent the last few days reading what the NW defense lawyers are writing about the AE Western Expansion Program and Christine Lucarell. http://supremecourt.ohio.gov/pdf_viewer/pdf_viewer.aspx?pdf=806893.pdf
    In my opinion, the NW defense lawyers must have either been very misinformed or NW didn’t tell them the whole truth as to what happened. There are important facts missing regarding the AE program that go back well before NW ever recruited Christine or myself into the failed program. If NW would have accepted some these facts, admitted their business plan wasn’t going to work and made some changes none of this would have happened.

    It has always been my hope that these facts would come out in the court room before now. The average OH Civil Case takes about 24 months from start to finish according the OH Supreme Court study. Unfortunately my case is already 30 months old and we’ve been waiting since June 11, 2015 for the next ruling. Normally after 30 months all the discovery and depositions would have been done but in my case we haven’t even started those. If this evidence in my case would have been allowed to come forward and it showed additional fraud, deceit, misrepresentations, bad faith and a cover up, it could have been damaging in the NW effort to discredit and overturn the verdict Christine won. In my case when NW found out I was filing a law suit they terminated my IC agreement a few weeks later. Yes I barely made it off the AE plan by .01 above the minimum DWP needed. Luckily I found an OH attorney, Caryn Groedel who is an excellent person/attorney and my hero. She graciously accepted my case and we filed the Civil Law suit in Franklin Country on May 16, 2014.

    Now that the OH Supreme court is interested in hearing about the AE program, it makes me wonder, why has my case been on hold for the last 18 months?

    I have decided, in fairness to Christine’s attorneys and all others who aren’t able to see all the public details that my case would have shown, that I’m going to write a series of comments with my opinions of the actual experience I had as an AE Western Expansion agent.

    Chapter 1 “The Beginning”

    Prior to the AE Western Expansion the NW Brand was only in states East of the Mississippi. Nationwide had hired thousands of exclusive agents since the company started over 80 years ago. In the years before NW started the AE program they would hire agents as employees of the company. These Exclusive “employee” Agents would have been asked to follow similar NW agency business plans and agency revenue/expense pro forma templates, used in the AE Western Expansion Program. In the NW business plan, the employee agent would open a modest office, hire a full time assistant and NW would pay for everything including the agent’s and office employee’s salary/benefits. NW would lease the space, the agent would follow the business plan and build the business with a goal that after 5 years the agent could take over as an independent contractor agent. At this point the agency renewals would help pay for everything Nationwide had been paying for and the agency they built together was a success. In this agency model NW wanted the principal agent to be the main person selling so the payroll expenses stayed low and it was controlled by NW. The NW production requirements were very achievable and based one producer’s DWP for the most part. I spoke to dozens of “old time agents” and they all said it worked great and they never needed to borrow any money or hire sub producers to help them make their goals. This system must have worked well because for decades there were thousands of these types of agents hired into the company all still running successful agencies.

    In 2004 when the Nationwide Board of Directors must have approved the AE Western Expansion program their goal was to hire 600 new “non-employee 1099” Agents and they planned to expand to all states west of the Mississippi. The difference is these new AE self-employed agents would pay all the expenses and if the business plan didn’t work out the agent would be responsible for paying back the loan to NW. Nationwide must have figured it would be a lot cheaper, faster and with no financial risk to them, if someone other than a NW employee opened the agency. NW also wanted the Western Expansion AE to hire multiple sub producers to write most of the new business. This requirement of new AE’s hiring sub producers to write the business was a big mistake. Keep in mind this wasn’t how the old NW “employee” agents had built their start up agencies in the past.

    Nationwide’s pitch was this. We loan you money, you hire 4-5 sub producers and pay them $10.00 per hour. If each producer writes 20 applications per month you will have 100 new sales per month. With 100 new sales per month your revenue should overtime pay back the expenses incurred to cover your payroll and office expenses. Basically what NW was saying was anyone can sell insurance just pay them $10.00 per hour, make them call 200 people a week and if they can’t make the sales fire them. When anyone would question this business model the NW managers would immediately tell you this plan would work because NW was going to price their insurance slow low that the new sales would just roll in. When you asked to see the rates and compare the cost of the insurance with other carriers you were told the rates have not been finalized and we can’t show them to you. These NW Senior Leadership employees doing all the talking, making all the promises had 35-40 years with the company. These managers had a natural almost unbelievable ability to convince you that this was an opportunity of a lifetime. These leaders often spoke about how the NW Board of Directors were going to spend $1B in this expansion and there was no way they would let the AE program fail. For me I knew about Nationwide because many of their leaders had some affiliation with Allied Insurance. Allied Insurance was a company owned by NW and a real power house in independent agent channel. Allied did big business in many states and had a great reputation with everyone I spoke to.

    How would NW get 600 new AE owners to come on board in less than 2 years?

    What NW did first was to set up what looked to be a “test agency” sometime in 2004. We learned about this after the AE program started to fail. These test was before they really started the recruiting of the NW employees and future AE agents for the expansion. Nationwide recruited a person named Dante Shay an experienced P&C agent from southern California. Dante was recruited to move to the Phoenix area and open not (1) scratch agency but open (3) at one time. We all heard that NW loaned him over $1M and within 6-12 months this agency that was following the NW business model blew up and closed down. The agency blew up so bad that Dante hired an Attorney Dirk Bemmer, and Dirk got NW to settle before it went to trial. I called Dante and he told me that he could not tell me anything about the settlement because NW included a very strict non-disclosure agreement that prevented him or his attorney from saying anything. I spoke others that new Dante and they told me what happened. The cost to build out and open 3 new locations at once was expensive. The cost to recruit, hire and train the office staff was expensive and time consuming. The sub producers could not sell insurance as well as the main agent. Within a few short months his expenses were many times higher than his revenues. In about 6-12 months he burned through most all of his $1M business loan and his agency went into a death spiral. At this point Dante had no choice but to call Dirk Bemmer to try and get out. Dirk must have convinced NW that this business failure was result of the NW business plans they asked Dante to follow. NW could have admitted this plan didn’t work and if they wanted to move forward at least tell everyone what happened. The fact that NW covered it all up and moved forward with no changes resulted in hundreds of people ending up like Dante.

    With the AE Western Expansion, NW wanted the agency principle who borrowed the money to spend the money and their time recruiting, hiring/training sub producers to write the new business. In the past the principle agent was writing almost 100% of the new business and that allowed them the ability to make those relationships with clients needed to keep your agency growing and keep the payroll expenses low. In my opinion NW should have paused at this point and realized that going forward with a new agency business plan to loan agents money so they can hire sub producers was not going to work, especially after seeing it happen with Dante. If you got behind for just a couple months in new sales you could never make it up, especially when your expenses were 10-15 times higher than your revenues each month. The results, the loan money will eventually run out like it did with Dante and you can’t pay your fixed expenses because the revenues are not there.

    So what did NW do? They opened a new regional office in IA, hired NW employees to run it and the AE Western Expansion moved forward. The AE agent recruiting started and the sales managers were paid bonuses and/or fired based on the number of new agents they could get business loans approved

    Chapter 2 AE Western Expansion Program (official launch and early sales indications)

    More to follow every week



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