Another Obamacare Requirement Delayed

By David Morgan | July 8, 2013

  • July 8, 2013 at 2:03 pm
    TxLady says:
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    I am confused. This was legislation passed into law by congress. Congress proposes and passes legislation. Per our constitution, the President does not have the authority to choose which laws on the books are followed, nor can he/she pick out certain aspects of a law and follow only those he chooses. So how can this possibly be legal to do? Although this is a complete and total mess, aren’t we as a country legally obligated to put this in place or pass legislation to change it? I did not think the United States was government by presidential decree.

    • July 8, 2013 at 2:49 pm
      Agent says:
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      Oh Brother, another 606 pages of regulation to add to the 12,000+ pages already published. This is a mess of biblical proportions and will be impossible for anyone to understand or comply with. Actually, Txlady, it is a presidency of executive orders and they think they can do whatever they want. All one has to do is look at the IRS or the Justice Dept to see how out of control they are. The lies are catching up with them though.

      • July 8, 2013 at 4:11 pm
        Ron says:
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        • July 9, 2013 at 9:23 am
          Captain Planet says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          There goes Ron with his facts and evidence again. Platitudes! We need to speak in platitudes out here, Ron.

        • July 9, 2013 at 9:53 am
          LiveFree says:
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          I would also call them presidencies of executive orders. Presidents over stepping and expanding their power is not a new occurrence with the Bush or Obama presidency, rather just a ongoing tradition of continuously compounded corruption that spans across the two akin party lines. (that I believe started with the be-loved Lincoln).

          I really hope that one day soon the majority of voters realize a real change is needed in government/politics and stop accepting the expansion of power of our “leaders”.

        • July 9, 2013 at 10:53 am
          Celtica says:
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        • July 11, 2013 at 11:03 am
          Rob says:
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          I would ask one question. Of those executive orders, how many were in complete contradiction to the constitution and are overstepping the executive branch powers?

          • July 11, 2013 at 1:08 pm
            Agent says:
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            I think most may contradict the Constitution. The Presidential oath is to protect and defend the Constitution and to faithfully execute the laws of the land. It does not give him the power to change the law of the land. That doesn’t seem to matter these days as he thinks he can do whatever he wants with no consequences. Time to call his bluff if anyone has the courage to do so.

          • July 12, 2013 at 10:29 am
            LiveFree says:
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            Well for starters the constitution does not even mention the presidents power for “executive orders” so I would make the argument that all of them can be seen as unconstitutional.

            But regardless, of the top of my head I can think of a few: FDR in 1933 confiscated (fancy word for stealing) private gold, then FDR again in th eearly 1940s when he forced Japanese-Americans into interment camps. Also the biggest repeat offense by presidents is the de-facto declaration of war by mobilizing troops (which ironically a lot of neo-con republicans that preach the constitution turn a blind eye to). The list of presidents I can recall that did this are: Adams, Truman, LBJ, Lincoln, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr. All circumvented congress with war, and I am sure there are many more that did this or other unconstitutional executive orders if I did some quick research.

  • July 8, 2013 at 2:07 pm
    Cheetoh Mulligan says:
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    It is a mess and I don’t mind him delaying certain aspects to make things right. My biggest fear is that Obama tries to delay his exodus as President.

    • July 8, 2013 at 5:02 pm
      Celtica says:
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    • July 18, 2013 at 3:54 pm
      Agent says:
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      Livefree, the President is the Commander in Chief and is sworn to protect the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. If he wants to engage an enemy of this country, historically he asks Congress for a Declaration of War and funding for it. It is strange that you left off our current President for his involvement in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria. After all, he did say that Afghanistan was the right war for the right reasons. He didn’t learn from Russia who also was involved there for 10 years trying to make them a province and lost a lot of soldiers and equipment and had to pull out in the end.

      • July 18, 2013 at 4:17 pm
        Libby says:
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        Agent – the last time the U.S. declared war was World War II. The “war” in Libya was a military engagement authorized by United Nations Security Council Resolutions and funded by Congress. There was nothing unconstitutional about it.

  • July 8, 2013 at 2:41 pm
    Libby says:
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  • July 8, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    FFA says:
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    TX Lady, you are thinking the same as I. How can he change a law that congress passed????

    Libby – the regulations – aren’t they part of the law itself?

    Seems like this pipe dream of his is on life support.

    • July 8, 2013 at 5:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hi FFA. He changes the law that he had passed by Executive Order even if it is Unconstitutional. I wonder what other President changed a law that was passed and signed into law. I remember him signing this law with about 20 pens and handing them to his minions Nancy & Dirty Harry and others who voted for this crap. The regulations are part of the bill for implementation. Of course, they seem to be having trouble with the implementation part so they resort to just changing it to serve their own political agenda. Did you notice that the mid terms are fast approaching. I wonder how many Congressmen and Senators will be campaigning that they did the right thing voting for Obamacare.

      • July 8, 2013 at 9:42 pm
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        I am not disagreeing with you, just making an honest request.

        If it is unconstitutional, please explain how without using rhetoric, telling me that I have to open my eyes and ears (they are always open, just need you to show me or tell me some facts), or Republican talking points.

        Also, please explain to me why the Republican led house will pass 37 bills to repeal the ACA with no hope of passing the Senate or signed into law by President Obama, but will not bring Articles of Impeachment against President Obama?

        • July 9, 2013 at 10:33 am
          Agent says:
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          Ron, I have a degree in Economics with a minor in history. I have also lived long enough to witness events first hand. Bills are started mostly in the House and passed on to the Senate who will amend them and send them to a conference committee to iron out details. Of course, under Harry Reid’s reign of terror, the bills never seem to get past his desk to be debated on or voted on. Is it any wonder that nothing gets done in Congress. I do agree that it has been futile to keep passing bills of repeal, but they have done what their constituents wanted them to do. No man should have the power that Reid has to discard bills without debate or vote in the Senate. He should have been ousted long ago. I also cannot understand why Articles of Impeachment have not been brought yet. I suppose the only answer is that they don’t want to be called racists for doing it.

          • July 9, 2013 at 11:14 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I agree with you about Senate Majority Leader Reid and have expressed my frustration with him in the past. However, Speaker Boehner has not been much better with bills that have passed the Senate such as the American Jobs Act and the immigration reform bill recently passed by the Senate.

            Why is it that when Democrats push for bills their constituents want with no hope of passing the House it is called political pandering, but when Republicans do it they are doing what their constituents want?

            Don’t you think that their constituents also want President Obama impeached? Isn’t stopping the destruction of the country worth the risk of being called a racist? Are the Republicans more worried about there own image than the future of the country?

            My guess is that there is nothing upon which to impeach President Obama and/or the reasons would cause future Republican Presidents from being impeached because both sides seem to govern the same way.

          • July 9, 2013 at 1:42 pm
            bob says:
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            Both sides do not govern the same way.

            In the first place, you’re arguing that because republicans aren’t impeaching Obama, Obama can’t be destroying the country or overstepping his bounds? You try to say how everyone is the same president wise. No. They aren’t. It’s a matter of how these presidents are overstepping their bounds and how they are selling it. Democrats overstep their bounds, and then start buying votes while starting hate wars. I kid you not. Look at the gay marriage bill in WA. Republicans added 3 amendments. 3. Two were supposed to be automatic in our state which state that the governor and the secretary had to go to the people before signing the bill. Odd thing to by-pass no? Republicans do not often do this. The other one was a section stating that if religions had incidental celebratory costs as part of the marriage, they could charge the cost it takes to provide it and not risk being fined or losing their tax exempt status. It was a bill protecting religions, that also allowed gay marriage. Republicans couldn’t get it in the bill, and thus didn’t vote for the bill. The democrats proceeded to say why oh why do these republicans hate the gays!? God those churches! GET THEM!!! The democrats had motive for not including it in the bill, and it wasn’t common sense. It wasn’t even immediate politics. It was forethought into the future. If there is no church vs gays, no affiliation to republicans in that matter, there is no battle for them to fight for their constituents. This is called intentionally starting a war amongst the classes. The democrats have done it a long time and this is not the only example. I can give you plenty more, and the republicans DO NOT do this. Gun control would be another. Manchin Toomey versus S 647 (I might have those digits/name slightly wrong). The democrats proceeded to say why oh why are the democrats breaking promises to mothers about background checks and allowing Connecticut events to happen? They said ZOMG it was for the monies and the gun lobbyists and corporate dollars!!

            To answer why it is pandering for democrats and not for republicans:

            Because when a democrat panders for a bill they say someone will die and it’s about lobbyists and big money (gun control) they move a bill to avoid mid term election results (the healthcare mandate.) They say the elderly will die (Romney Ryan ticket, they actually put out a number of people they thought would die under Romney / Ryan supposed “plan”) Because they cause battles. The debt reduction battle would be another example. They agreed to cuts, and said they would do it only with tax increases. They gut the increases and said they would seriously cut this time if they got increases. Go back to the debt reduction super committee. See how that progressed into the sequester time frame. They kept saying “for reals, we will cut”. They kept giving “projections” of debt based on the “cuts” that would kick in. The deficits never went down. Every time he said how much he cut the deficit, it was based on “IF” the cuts went into place, and now 3 years after 2010 the most that is actually in effect is $85 billion which they complained about and campaigned on. They put in place the sequester trigger, then campaigned against it.

            Further, the ACA act actually was NOT acting per their constituents, as the majority of Americans didn’t want it at the time. Of course it will create a reliance on the government. Try to take this away after it is in place. You won’t be able to. People who make $15,000 a year with 2 kids will now get insurance for $945 a savings of about $15,000 dollars when accounting for the $5,000 average premium, they will get about a $7,000 tax return (bringing their income to about $21,000 after taxes. Yes, it increases their income by $6,000, and yes that means they are making as much as someone who works full time) This is not including food stamps, and potential assisted housing. Is there any reason for them to get a full time job? No. There is not.

            There is a real difference between the two parties. And one is honest. Boehner tried fighting against democrats. All that got him was the statement “Oh, your only goal is to make this nice guy a one term president?”. He did fight passionately. It doesn’t work for republicans. You are right that they play politics to a degree. This is because they have NO leniency in the masses, whereas democrats definitely have more. Obama quietly resigned the most controversial parts of the patriot act. Did the media report it? No. The media doesn’t question democrat actions until it gets crazy like the Verizon incident. The point here is providing examples, I’m not off topic. I am providing examples every three seconds so you don’t say “that’s not true!” and then say republicans do it too. No. They don’t. Provide a counter on how the republicans are similar on what I just said.

            Side comment: I’m sorry, but the immigration and jobs bill are not good examples at all. Republicans have tried to pass both jobs and immigration bills. The democrats are intentionally passing ones that the republicans don’t agree with in order to say “why aren’t they passing this?”. The difference is that the democrats have not passed even ONE republican bill in the last 4 years. Not ONE. If so name the bill. I know you will say they both do it again, which is why I said the prior. The jobs bill and immigrant bill are perfect examples of democrats playing politics. If you had any idea how many jobs bills they put forth in the last 4 years, or the attempts they made with immigration, you would go, “oh…right”.

          • July 9, 2013 at 1:48 pm
            bob says:
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            So you know Ron:

            If I don’t reply it’s not because I couldn’t crush your rebuttal. It’s because I seem to have a limit of about 2-3 posts per article.

            Go figure. I had directed your and Libby’s comments before as a side note and you guys were wrong in them. I just couldn’t reply as my max was reached. It was really annoying considering how you two belligerently came in stating I never reply, given I always have the best thought out comments here.

            My previous comment referenced and thoroughly explained the importance of dozens of issues.

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:28 pm
            jw says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            bob, FWIW I disagree with your conclusions.

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Wow,Bob. I guess you have been saving up for a full broadside on Ron. I am sure he will ask you for “metrics” on your post. He likes to pull up all the .govs to try to prove his points. Since we now know the government has been cooking the books and spewing their talking points to justify their existence, they don’t carry any weight with me because I don’t trust their stats. Many of their minions have been caught lying to Congress and the American people or they simply take the 5th and won’t say anything.

          • July 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, It is a fact that the Senate is not exactly productive in doing new legislation. These elitists are generally satisfied to let bills come to them from the House so Reid can pitch them without debate or vote. I do think the House receives the few bills from the Senate to consider and if it is not good, they will offer amendments and send it back. The Immigration Bill is in the House currently. There has not been a rejection I have seen from Boehner. Of course, it is 1,200 pages long and I hope they at least read it before voting on it, unlike the Senate.

          • July 9, 2013 at 5:44 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,
            At least I will cite my sources for the facts that I present.

            I have already conceded the point that I am not happy with Senate majority Leader Reid and the Senate’s lack of cooperation with the House.
            How do you interpret these words from Speaker Boehner? “We’re going to do our own bill” and it will reflect “the will of our majority.”
            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/30/schumer-needles-boehner-claims-house-will-pass-senate-immigration-bill/#ixzz2YaRQHmRL

            In other words, they do not care that it was passed 68-32 in the Senate with 14 Republicans voting for the legislation.

            http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/politics/immigration

            You still have not addressed my questions as to why Articles of Impeachment have not been brought against President Obama yet. In particular; 1. Isn’t stopping the destruction of the country worth the risk of being called a racist? 2. Are the Republicans more worried about there own image than the future of the country?
            You can answer both of those questions without citing a source.

          • July 10, 2013 at 11:31 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Bob: Maybe if you could be a little more succinct in your postings you might not be limited. They go on and on and on and after a while make no sense at all.

            I know you think you are brilliant and your posts are the light bulb all we mortal dummies need to see the light, but they are anything but. They are incoherent at best and downright nonsensical at worst.

          • July 11, 2013 at 11:47 am
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            I am succinct. You just lack intellect. Sorry to word it that way but divide the paragraphs.

            I started with a point, then I provided proof of the point.

            Paragraph one: Intro topic: Both parties do not govern the same. Intro sentences talk about Ron’s beliefs. Next sentences list examples in Washington of how democrats govern differently using real world examples, while explaining the amendments and the reason why they had to have done so. Explaining what I explained can only be done in a multitude of sentences. End of paragraph one: A secondary example with what the democrats said as well.

            Paragraph 2:

            Topic: Why is it pandering for democrats and not for republicans? The answer? Extremity. Republicans do not say people are going to die. Then I listed examples. I also listed how they said the sequester would ruin the nation’s recovery, and how they caused that debt battle, not the republicans. They passed cuts that they then refused to put in place unless they got more tax increases, after the bill was already agreed to. It was absurd. The whole paragraph was on topic. Second paragraph concluded with an example as to why democrats pandered worse than republicans, which kept with the beginning topic.

            Paragraph 3 directed again that there is a difference, and directed Ron’s comment about how if Boehner thought that Obama was a direct threat to the country he would fight for impeachment. I directed he can’t fight for impeachment, and when he did fight passionately and say he needed to make Obama a one term president due to his affects and tried to point out those affects, the media backlashes. The point of paragraph 3 was to show that republicans don’t have a fair trial in the media. I listed an example of where Obama had a free pass on something that literally had Bush W labeled as the biggest violator of rights in our nation’s history yet had no affect on Obama and was not reported.

            All these were more succinct than you are capable of grasping.

            I’m tired of your lack of ability to be able to interpret being used to state my innately better formed thesis commentary I post on here are inferior to yours in some way. I won’t accept the insult as a side comment. So I will say you’re wrong. You for some reason expect me to say “ya got me, I don’s knows what I’m talkings about, I’m a lunatic!! I’m not succinct and fly all over!”

            Not going to say it Libby. You need to respect my commentary when it’s spot on rather than state it isn’t succinct. That was written like an essay.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:16 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob: Read this and tell me if it makes any sense at all:

            “I’m tired of your lack of ability to be able to interpret being used to state my innately better formed thesis commentary I post on here are inferior to yours in some way. I won’t accept the insult as a side comment.”

            It’s like you start with a thought, but your mind is going so fast you change gears in the middle of the sentence without tying it all together.

            Your outline above was succinct. That’s because you took out all your inappropriate commentary and clearly stated your case. I don’t happen to agree with you, but you said it much better the second time.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:29 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            There was no change in gears in that sentence.

            And it was said properly the first time.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:32 pm
            bob says:
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            “I’m tired of your lack of ability to be able to interpret being used to state my innately better formed thesis commentary I post on here are inferior to yours in some way. I won’t accept the insult as a side comment”

            I am tired of your lack of ability to be able to interpret (your lack of ability is being used) being used to state (my better formed thesis commentary, commentary implies more than one comment) I post on here “are” (because commentary is plural) inferior to yours in some way.

            No change in gears. All the same point.

            Libby, again,

            I am getting tired of your inability to interpret my words, due largely to a lack of intellect, being used to state that my arguments are inferior to yours in some way.

            I will not be demeaned as a secondary comment. And what you just did, was demeaning.

            Apologize. Immediately.

          • July 11, 2013 at 3:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – you make me laugh. I can imagine you stomping your feet as you made that last post. Let me demostrate my intellect in comparison to yours:

            “I’m tired of your lack of ability to be able to interpret being used to state my innately better formed thesis commentary I post on here are inferior to yours in some way.”

            “I am tired of your inability to interpret being used as a way to state my innately, better-formed commentary are inferior to yours in some way.”

            I’m a wordsmith, Bob. You clearly lack in that department.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:21 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            I can imagine you being used to being told you’re right. When you demean someone, it’s wrong, regardless of your ability to try and turn it around and make it seem like you’re the good guy. That is what you did when you made that sentence, it was your attempt to say I blaze through without fully thinking through anything. Too bad you were proved adequately wrong.

            I don’t write many posts as if I were watching for grammar. I’m watching for points. Regardless of which, if your only issue with how I stated it was your fix, your fix was negligibly different at best. At which point: You are not a word smith. A word smith would have turned it into two sentences, or shortened it up.

            I don’t have time to debate semantics with you to derail concepts. I know it’s a hard concept for you to handle, but when I’m right I’m right and it’s time to debate against what I said instead of trying to attack my credibility, compare me to a child, or make attempt a link at my ability to think clearly to dismiss my argument.

            Debate the original topic, you unethical human. The point I put up was valid.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:39 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I was trying to re-write it using your same words. Of course, I wouldn’t have said it anthing like that. My point is this: if you want people to debate what you say, try keeping your points simple and to the point instead of inserting your opinions, commentary, and insults. Try looking at some of Ron’s posts. He does this very well. By the time we are done reading your thesis post, we have forgotten what the topic was to begin with. It was meant as constructive criticism and not an insult, you baby.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:42 pm
            Libby says:
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            “I’m tired of your lack of ability to be able to interpret being used to state my innately better formed thesis commentary I post on here are inferior to yours in some way.”

            “Your inability to interpret my commentary does not prove they are somehow inferior to yours.”

            Four words for you: You are too verbose.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:57 pm
            bob says:
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        • July 9, 2013 at 2:59 pm
          bob says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          JW:

          Ok. On what grounds? And which?

          I don’t understand the reason for the comment.

          • July 10, 2013 at 9:49 am
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            So Metric Ron, the Senate passed a bill they didn’t read with the one exception of Ted Cruz who analyzed the bill and found it wanting and you expect the House to just fall into line and vote for it without debate. Aren’t you the least bit concerned with anything coming out of Harry Reid’s Senate? I personally don’t care if 14 RINO’s voted for this bill if it is not right for the country. I don’t care if John McCain or Jeff Flake or Marco Rubio voted for it. By the way, I did answer on why the Articles of Impeachment have not been brought by the House. The press would excoriate Republicans who bring the charges and call them all racists for doing it. Back in the day, the Democrats had no problem drawing up charges against Nixon or Clinton because there was no race issue with them. This country is so racially charged and politically correct, it probably won’t happen and we will continue to suffer along with this guy for the remainder of his term. The idea is to make him a lame duck where he can’t get his agenda done. By the way, you never answered me on googling Milton Friedman. You seem to be afraid to see what he had to say about the economy and the difference between Keynsian economics and Free Market Capitalism.

          • July 10, 2013 at 10:35 am
            jw says:
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            bob, I’m mean that I understand the information you’ve provided, but I disagree with the conclusion you’ve drawn from that information.

            I commented because I wanted you to know that not everyone agrees with your conclusions. Since I know you won’t change your mind any more than I will change my mind, I am not inclined to go through the motions to explain my position. Sue me, I’m feeling like a slacker this week.

          • July 10, 2013 at 10:39 am
            jw says:
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            Oh, you asked which conclusions. Politicians govern the same way and all are pandering to their constituents.

            Yes, I read what you wrote and came to different conclusions. Again, for what it’s worth (basically, nothing) I just disagree.

          • July 10, 2013 at 10:59 am
            Libby says:
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            The immigration bill presented was comprehensive and well-crafted. It doubled the budget for border security and provided funding for fencing and surveillance equipment. What was wrong with it? According to Ted Cruz he would never endorse citizenship for anyone in the country without authorization.

            Well goodbye Ted Cruz! He’s signed his own death warrant in Texas where Hispanics are set to outnumber non-Hispanics in less than 10 years. He’d better get with the program if he wants to see the pearly white gates of the White House some day.

          • July 10, 2013 at 12:42 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Congratulations, Agent. Since you and your ilk couldn’t make Obama a one-term President, you have worked hard to make him a lame duck. I sure hope you are proud of yourself. You and the other right-wingers just continue to fiddle while Rome burns. Good job!

            YOU are what is wrong with this country.

          • July 10, 2013 at 1:04 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Careful Libby. It is not wise to tangle with Bob. You, of all people should realize that since he has handed you your head on many blogs and you had to resort to name calling, knashing of teeth when he shot you down time after time.

          • July 10, 2013 at 1:12 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Huh? That comment was aimed at you and your lame duck remark. I’m not afraid of Bob. If you notice, he’s the one name-calling these days.

          • July 10, 2013 at 1:33 pm
            jw says:
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            Agent, just because bob says things you like doesn’t mean he’s handed anyone their head. Also, just because bob said it’s so, doesn’t mean he’s right.

          • July 11, 2013 at 11:38 am
            bob says:
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            JW:

            about the pandering, and all politicians:

            I argued the opposite. I said one party does it more than the other. Either that or you just worded what you were against incorrectly.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:11 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Libby and JW:

            Libby first, you are just as much a problem in our arguments as I. I am strong in my debate style, because I’m sick of your side, you’re strong in yours because of your views on mine.

            JW: At the risk of sounding arrogant, but I’m not (seeing as this only applies to that which I take up as an argument online, which I don’t take the argument if I’m not already researched in the argument at hand)

            Just because I write it on here it actually *does* mean it’s likely correct.

            Now on an interesting side topic: I don’t think Agent provides proof for his statements, though I also think you guys don’t come even close to being able to provide counter arguments.

            You provide sources (and often) that don’t support the narrative of your conclusion, and/or the methodology doesn’t line up.

            I would take someone who refuses to use sources, and is sometimes wrong, but has the right idea, over someone who abuses sources to fit their narrative incorrectly, any day. Even disregarding that I don’t much care for some of Agent’s arguments. I am a moderate. Despite your thoughts to the contrary.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            jw says:
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            bob, I said all politicians pander and govern the same way. Neither party does less of either vice. I don’t trust either side.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Bob – you and Agent are “right” according to you. JW and I are “right” according to me. See how it works???

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            bob says:
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          • July 11, 2013 at 2:26 pm
            jw says:
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            bob, I don’t think you’re always right because you trust your sources and I don’t.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            bob says:
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          • July 11, 2013 at 2:59 pm
            jw says:
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            bob, don’t trust the numbers. liars figure and figures lie.

          • July 11, 2013 at 3:03 pm
            jw says:
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            bob, I know you research and compare. I’m just saying as an accountant, don’t trust the numbers and don’t trust the words. Both are easily manipulated through their original documentation.

          • July 11, 2013 at 3:30 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Well, Bob, if doing nothing is the way to go, then Way to Go! Congress has done nothing for the last 2 years.

            Regarding your “facts”, one which stated “The liberal ones lied, and bahed the hell out of conservatives on the Manchin Toomey issue, on the Gay marriage issue in WA, etc.), show proof positive of lying and bashing. You can’t that is just your opinion of their reaction.

            Besides, these are 2 isolated incidents that do not a pattern make.

          • July 11, 2013 at 5:05 pm
            bob says:
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          • July 11, 2013 at 5:18 pm
            bob says:
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            “Well, Bob, if doing nothing is the way to go, then Way to Go! Congress has done nothing for the last 2 years.

            Regarding your “facts”, one which stated “The liberal ones lied, and bahed the hell out of conservatives on the Manchin Toomey issue, on the Gay marriage issue in WA, etc.), show proof positive of lying and bashing. You can’t that is just your opinion of their reaction.

            Besides, these are 2 isolated incidents that do not a pattern make.”

            You can’t tell me you think republicans are for gay marriage. You don’t. Their unethical marketing campaign produced you. Perhaps you don’t see it, but every comment you have made is charged the same way Libby. You’re existence is all the proof I need. I don’t have to give you source articles to show how the media reacted. You already know because you share the opinions.

            They are not isolated. The media didn’t react to the re passing of the patriot act. Obama’s approval rating didn’t drop after he repassed it. There’s my proof of media bias to start with on a matter of fact.

            That isn’t two incidents. The sequester is another. The democrats made that trigger and the democrats ran to remove it after making promises the people wanted on cutting. Why? To get the marketing press on both ends. They claimed we would slip back into recession if it went through. We didn’t. Jobs are equal to last year. Is the sky still falling?

            You haven’t provided an equivalent on the republican side. Haven’t seen one. Those several (not just two) are not the only two.

            How about we look at the flight regulations aimed against UPS in Ohio (democrat in origin) the building code in WA geared toward comcast (Democrat in origin) the laws that pushed DHT delivery out of Oregon (democrat in origin) and then the green preference laws, and then have the democrats say again how republicans are cronyists? They campaigned on it Libby. Lower taxes for all businesses is not cronyism. Lower taxes and better regulations for individual companies is cronysim. They created on each of those a battle.

            Move to keystone oil, Obama said he would pass it only if the net affect on emissions was zero. That’s an impossibility and he knows it. Why? The earth versus republicans makes for good voting. He agrees with it, but won’t pass it so he won’t harm his base. He needs the battle.

            Ike made the roads system in 4 years. Obama has been slipping up on that approval for over 4 years. I’m pretty sure the roads system had a bigger impact on emissions. I’m also pretty sure we need oil before we switch to another energy.

            Let’s move on to suddenly he supported farm subsidies when he went into states that supported it, and spoke of how Ryan wants to do away with them. Again, the sky is falling, choose us!

            Let’s move to healthcare, X amount of people will die if you don’t vote for us. Very lovely number there.

            This is pandering. This is starting battles to get elected. The republicans did not do this to the degree of the democrats this cycle.

          • July 12, 2013 at 8:50 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Thank you, Bob. You made my point with your last sentence: “The republicans did not do this to the degree of the democrats this cycle.” Operative words being “this cycle.” BOTH sides do it. When they do it or who does it more is not the debate. They BOTH do it.

          • July 12, 2013 at 11:53 am
            bob says:
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          • July 12, 2013 at 12:38 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Bob, you and Libby are at it again. I guess she hasn’t had enough from all the other times you have worn her down with your logical approach and research. I wonder why they don’t ask you for Metrics and cite a bunch of websites on your analysis.

            The libs on this site should be paying attention to their own Democratic leaders on Obamacare. DHS is sinking many millions into high dollar public relations firm to try to sell the public or hiring Navigators to guide the public through the paperwork nightmare. Max Baucus started the defection by calling it a trainwreck. Harry Reid agreed with him. Chuck Schumer recognized that Healthcare premiums were going up as the result of Obamacare. Ron Wyden of Oregon said there is reason to be concerned about what is going to happen to young people. These guys are not exactly bastions of Conservativism, wouldn’t you agree?

          • July 12, 2013 at 12:48 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent – the days of Bob wearing me down were short and way in the past. But that’s your problem, you tend to live in the past and rarely evolve your thinking to take into account the present and recent past.

            Did you study Milton Friedman during the Reagan years? If so, you need to bone up on what’s been happening the last 3 decades. Supply side economics has turned out to be a disaster for this country and historically, has not worked long term.

          • July 12, 2013 at 12:51 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I had underestimated Bob last year, but rarely make the same mistake twice. We actually had a detante for a short time, but continue to “debate” because of his bullish, belligerent “style.” We disagree more over style than substance. Not at all like you and I. You have no substance other than your repeated mantra of “Keynesian is bad. Democrats are all spendaholics. Obama should be impeached.” You need a new theme song.

    • July 9, 2013 at 7:12 am
      jw says:
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      Hey, FFA – regulations aren’t law in the sense that they don’t have to be passed by congress. You still have to follow regs, but the departments make their own regulations based on their needs and how they interpret the laws for their department.

      Clear as mud, right? I can’t think of an easier way to explain, sorry.

      • July 10, 2013 at 6:04 pm
        FFA says:
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        JW, nothing is clear to me. I wake up in a fog, work my a$# off and go home to more confusion.

        • July 11, 2013 at 7:26 am
          jw says:
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          Ouch. You need a hobby. Something that takes you away from the house and clears that fog.

          • July 11, 2013 at 12:04 pm
            FFA says:
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            Yep. went out last night for the first time in years on a week night till bar time. Fun while it lasted, but today, I wish it were over already!

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:35 pm
            jw says:
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            Ok, bar hopping was not what I was thinking, but I guess that’s an option. Doesn’t sound like it helped with the fog, either.

            Is there anything you enjoy? Besides giving us a hard time on IJ.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm
            FFA says:
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            I love sitting on my lake! I like playing ball, but a S Mobile wreck back in 1993 has caught up! So, I gave that up. Bars scene is not my norm.

          • July 12, 2013 at 7:39 pm
            jw says:
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            Have you ever read sci-fi or fantasy? I can see sitting at a lake in a comfortable chair and enjoying a good book. The key is a book that takes you away from reality. Seriously, contemporary is fine sometimes, but if you really want to escape and unwind a good fantasy or sci-fi book can make a difference. It has to be a good book, though, because a poorly written one will just irritate you.

          • July 12, 2013 at 7:42 pm
            jw says:
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            Not harry potter or vampire romance, either. Something with a real hero and a difficult task.

      • July 11, 2013 at 4:43 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        For the record Bob, I don’t always agree with everything you say either, but I do enjoy you handing Libby her head as you have done many times over the past few years. We are from different parts of the country so that may explain some of the differences of opinion. You tend to wear her down eventually until she tells you to get lost. I wonder why Metric Ron doesn’t ask you for Metrics to prove your point.

        • July 11, 2013 at 4:57 pm
          Libby says:
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          Bob has not handed me anything except a couple of good laughs. He’s way too sensitive and defensive all the time. Then he gets emotional and starts lashing out. He loses his cool and that’s not cool.

          I don’t debate him on points I could care less about like the gay marriage bill in WA. But I hold my own on others.

          • July 11, 2013 at 5:22 pm
            bob says:
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          • July 12, 2013 at 8:56 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I did not lie. I won’t debate you on the fine points of that bill in WA because I don’t know what happens in WA and did not read that particular bill. It has nothing to do with my debating whether I think gay marriage should be the law of the land. I do and you don’t. Plain and simple.

            I am not trying to “pick a fight”. You seemed dismayed because your posts were being limited on IJ and I just said you’re a little wordy and could probably make your points better with less words. That is not an insult, but a critique or criticism. You can not take either.

            I can’t remember what I said about the axis of evil or my “style” over a year ago, so I’ll just take your word for it. It seems you are keeping track.

          • July 12, 2013 at 11:55 am
            bob says:
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          • July 12, 2013 at 11:57 am
            bob says:
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          • July 12, 2013 at 12:29 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob:

            First of all, this is a blog. Anyone can post to anyone about anything.

            “If you’re not picking a fight with me, why did you reply to the comment in which you talked about succinct to begin with, and why did you follow up with it saying that all you meant to do was state constructive criticism?”

            This is why I responded:

            “I am succinct. You just lack intellect.” You don’t actually think I am going to let you insult me and not respond, do you? My original post about being succinct was sincere and respectful and did not deserve the response it go from you.

          • July 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            I will only cave in the context that I understand that at times I use phrasing that is similar to you and comes off just as insulting as calling me not succinct.

            See? I can give you some credit. But you have to admit, that was not a constructive criticism comment. It was a blunt comment saying I don’t phrase paragraphs right, which is not true. I just have a different “style”. I don’t come in talking about how you word things. I talk about the substance, as you put it in another post.

            I expect you to practice what you are commenting on in other posts. I do actually pay attention thank you.

        • July 11, 2013 at 5:23 pm
          bob says:
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          Yeah, I chalk it up to the same.

          A lot of it has to do with me being an agnostic as well. We have some very large differences that definitely stem from that one.

        • July 15, 2013 at 11:07 am
          Agent says:
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          FFA, You, were describing what you did for stress relief. I have found a method that works well for me. I play golf on the weekend and every time I tee it up, I pretend the ball is a liberal. I have found that I pick up an additional 30 yards off the tee with that method and I score so much better.

          • July 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm
            jw says:
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            OK – I admit it, I laughed.

      • July 12, 2013 at 5:35 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, Please cite the Metrics on how successful Progressive Socialism & Keynsian spending economics has worked in any country in the history of the world. Obviously, the country has tried this theory in recent years and we now have $17 Trillion in debt, $6 Trillion in just the past 4 years, managed to shrink the middle class into the lower middle class, aren’t creating private sector jobs and the nation is descending into part time and temp workers rather than full time jobs. In addition, taxes are high and getting higher and the cost of living is going up. You should realize if you open your eyes that this current system sucks for lack of a better term. Also, don’t pretend to lecture me about Economics. You will lose everytime like you tend to do with Bob.

    • July 10, 2013 at 10:30 am
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      FFA, I heard an interesting commentary from Charles Krauthammer who is well versed on the Constitution. A president is charged to faithfully execute the laws passed and signed into law. He does not have the power to change a law once passed and signed. However, we know that the Constitution has been trampled on for the past 4+ years and if no one calls him on it and says no, it will continue to be done.

  • July 8, 2013 at 6:10 pm
    FFA says:
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    • July 9, 2013 at 11:02 am
      Agent says:
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      Hey FFA, Did you hear the new report that there are more people on Food Assistance than are working in this country. The report was that 101 million are receiving food assistance and only 97.5 million were working and not getting assistance. Does this sound like the most prosperous nation in the history of the world to you? It goes to show you how Progressive Socialism and the Entitlement society we have now has caused widespread poverty. Another name might be “Spreading the wealth around”. You can’t make a poor man rich by making a rich man poor.

      • July 9, 2013 at 11:55 am
        Nebraskan says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        What are the other 100 million doing (USA has 300+ million people)?

        Also, only 47 million Americans are on Foods Stamps. I am not sure who told you 97.5. (Not saying 47 million is any better.)

        Just wondering who your source is because those numbers are far from accurate.

        • July 9, 2013 at 1:06 pm
          Agent says:
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          My source is the US Department of Agriculture’s own report. The report says that 101 million are receiving food assistance from 15 different programs offered by the department at a cost of $114 Billion with a B. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there were 97,180,000 private sector workers in the US in 2012. The population of the country is 316.2 million meaning that nearly one third of Americans receive food aid from the government. When we have more people on being dependent on government, the more power the government will have over them. I know some on the left will say this is a good thing, but it will only cause more dependence and we will continue to descend into a third rate country. Perhaps that is what you want, but many Americans do not want this for our country. The Agriculture Dept is one of the more useless departments and needs to be cut in half and it would still be too large.

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:30 pm
            jw says:
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            Just throwing this out there: there are people who have jobs who receive food stamps or other food assistance, such as WIC.

          • July 9, 2013 at 3:33 pm
            Nebraskan says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Ok, I looked and I see why your number seemed “inflated.” Your comment, “The report was that 101 million are receiving food assistance” is not quite right. The number is, but that number reflects both welfare and food stamps. If you had just said assistance, it all would have made more sense. I guess in my mind, I keep welfare separate from food stamps, but I can see where some might consider them the same.

            Regarding your statement, “Perhaps that is what you want, but many Americans do not want this for our country,” your arrogance really makes me sad sometimes. I never said THIS is what I wanted. I just thought your numbers seemed a little ridiculous. You are just like the media…restate the statistic to the benefit of yourself.

          • July 9, 2013 at 4:25 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Nebraskan, I said Food Assistance and I meant it. Perhaps you should read the Agriculture Dept report. They have 15 different “food assistance” programs. This is not just welfare. The Agriculture has nothing to do with other welfare programs, just food stamps and food assistance. When you combine this $104 Billion assistance program and add in all the other welfare programs, you can easily see why this country has a problem with entitlements and a huge deficit.

          • July 10, 2013 at 1:34 pm
            jw says:
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            Agent, I checked the numbers and I think your source added things w/o understanding what they were adding.

          • July 10, 2013 at 1:46 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            What source, jw?? He doesn’t provide his sources. That way nobody can challenge him on them.

          • July 11, 2013 at 7:28 am
            jw says:
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            Libby, true he didn’t tell us his source, but his numbers do match that link you sent. Whether that is his source or not, it’s the same information; therefore, I concluded that his source is wrong.

        • July 10, 2013 at 6:05 pm
          FFA says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Maybe he was including the illegals????

      • July 9, 2013 at 12:28 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent – you only tell half the story. Among the 101M are children in the School Lunch program, the National Farmers Market program for seniors, Special Milk and Summer Food program for children.

        In addition, many of the people receiving this assistance also work.

        I think it’s disgusting that the richest country in the world has so many hungry people.

        • July 9, 2013 at 1:09 pm
          Agent says:
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          See my above post Libby which is also intended for Metric Ron. I agree that it is disgusting that so many people are receiving assistance since we are supposed to be the richest country on earth. This is another example of what Progressive Socialism will do to a great country. I would venture to say that China doesn’t have 101 million receiving food assistance like we do.

          • July 9, 2013 at 1:19 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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          • July 9, 2013 at 1:37 pm
            Patti Cake in the East says:
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            But hey!!! At least the USA is not the most obese country on record anymore…Mexico has actually taken that lead away from us.

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm
            bob says:
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            “And, if it weren’t for Reaganomics, we wouldn’t have so many hungry people/people on assistance”

            Impossible statement.

            Let’s dissect it:

            Is your argument that higher taxes on the rich somehow improve the economy or increase pay? There is no evidence to support this.

            UNLESS you are trying to say that higher taxes lead to higher quality educations, at which point, we would have to EXPAND assistance. Therefore, if it weren’t for Reaganomics we would have “More” people on assistance, whether or not it helped the economy overall.

            If you can’t even make a solid argument consistent in it’s own right, why do you comment?

            It’s really quite humorous to watch someone so inept though. Every now and again you really let it shine out.

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm
            jw says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            So, we shouldn’t have social programs at all?

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:35 pm
            jw says:
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            BTW, my question is actually for Agent.

          • July 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm
            Agent says:
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            Planet, it is plain to see that you didn’t take Econ 101 in college. You couldn’t be farther off base with your conclusions. I lived through the Reagan era and you weren’t even a twinkle in your father’s eye. Reagan inherited a big mess from Jimmy Carter kind of like the one we are in now except today’s mess is a mess on steroids. After a few years, the economy was on the rebound and more jobs were created than ever before. By the way, IRA’s, 401K’s and other savings incentives were started by Reagan encouraging investment and savings. We had robust growth and employers had confidence to hire and did hire. Compare that to today with shrinking employment, 100 million needing food assistance and an out of control government trying to control every aspect of our lives. You have been guzzling that Progressive Kool Aid and are into shock now. Seek help before it is too late.

          • July 10, 2013 at 8:54 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent,
            I’m not as young as you think I am. I lived through Reagan, too. Even Carter. Just because we recently welcomed a newborn doesn’t mean I’m 22. Reagan ruined this country. Alan Greenspan, Bruce Bartlett, and David Stockman all admit Reaganomics failed. Why can’t you? Trickle down has only equated to trickle up and now a strong majority of the wealth is with a small percentage of Americans. It’s time to try a new version of Capitalism. Reagan’s version was a complete failure.

          • July 10, 2013 at 6:08 pm
            FFA says:
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            Cap – Congrats. I need some life in the books and have an ap ready for you.

          • July 11, 2013 at 9:03 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            FFA – Thank you! A beautiful daughter who certainly doesn’t wish sleep upon me or my wife. But, hey, that’s part of the deal. What’s the app?

          • July 11, 2013 at 11:58 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            *Where’s the app?

          • July 12, 2013 at 10:52 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Because of Reaganomics, we have the biggest disparity in wealth since the 1800′s. The rich have indeed gotten richer, but the trickle down we were promised has not happened.

            The rich have only gotten greedier and are hoarding their wealth and influence. I have already posted sources and statistics on this.

            The one perod over which deficits decisively vanished came after Clinton imposed modest tax increases on the wealthy and paid stringent attention to the budget. That’s what needs to happen now.

            “Keynesianism has a long, eighty-year record of being right in the most general sense.

            “Government should outspend its revenues in recession, directing high-velocity stimulus toward the middle class. Then, in good times, it should use adequate revenues to build up reserves. The Pharoahs knew this. It is even in the Biblical story of Joseph. It is common sense.

            “What does not make sense is to hold fast to an alternative “voodoo” theory—Supply Side Economics—that has always and universally failed in every major prediction, after being tried repeatedly for three decades.

            “A theory that is quasi-Marxist, in that it openly aims to propel the rise of an all-powerful aristocracy of wealth in exactly the manner that Marx prophesied, taking us toward the sort of class divisions that had old Karl chortling and rubbing his hands, murmuring “Yessss!” – David Brin Ph.D

      • July 10, 2013 at 10:50 am
        jw says:
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        I’m looking through the USDA website and can’t find a report for all the programs combined. Where did you find it?

        • July 10, 2013 at 11:04 am
          Libby says:
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          Good Lord, jw. You expect Agent to actually look up a source and provide a link??? I suspect he found the information much the same way I did, except his source was probably FoxNews or http://www.teaparty.org.

          Try this:

          http://cnsnews.com/news/article/101m-get-food-aid-federal-gov-t-outnumber-full-time-private-sector-workers

          • July 10, 2013 at 11:20 am
            jw says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            LOL

          • July 15, 2013 at 12:40 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, Aren’t you the same person that admitted to me on more than one occasion that Economics was not your strong suit? Now, you are trying to blog on this site like you know what you are talking about. Your love affair with John Maynard Keynes is totally misguided as were his theories. Massive government spending is why the country has a $17 Trillion with a T debt and $6 Trillion in the past 4+ years. I don’t see the evidence that it has helped the middle class, in fact the middle class has deteriorated to the lower middle class, record food stamp usage, more people on government aid than ever before, no private sector job growth and an economy of part time/temp workers. Somehow, I think Keynes concepts had some major flaws and Friedman shot them all down many years ago.

          • July 15, 2013 at 1:33 pm
            Libby says:
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            Economics wasn’t my strong suit, but you sparked an interest in me and I have been studying. You’re never too old to learn a thing or two, Agent. I will not stray from my statement that trickle down has not worked.

        • July 10, 2013 at 11:09 am
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          • July 16, 2013 at 1:09 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, If you do have the ability to learn, you would have already realized that Keynesian Economics has been a huge disaster for every country that has tried it including our own. Why do you think more than half of Europe is bankrupt or nearing it and the Euro is in the tank? Our country has huge annual deficits trying to prime that pump with no end in sight. This economy cannot recover if government keeps gobbling up the money and borrowing at record levels. The old saying of robbing Peter to pay Paul has never worked in the history of the world.

          • July 16, 2013 at 2:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            Keynes only recommends doing that during a recession. He does not espouse doing that all the time, like you infer.

      • July 10, 2013 at 11:35 am
        jw says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        So, Agent, I decided to research this food assistance for some reason. What I found is that the numbers quoted by you (which are the same as those on cnsnews.com – thank you Libby) may be a little skewed. I went to the USDA site and found where those numbers come from. The news site appears to have added all the reports together. The problem is the USDA reports are prepared BY PROGRAM. Guess what?!!? That means there are duplications of people. Someone who is getting food stamps (SNAP) and WIC, for example, will be counted on each program. The USDA numbers are not cleaned up to remove duplicates because each program is evaluated on the number of people served. Not one of those programs is going to not count their people just because that person/family is already getting something from one of the other programs.

        • July 10, 2013 at 11:45 am
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Great observation, jw.

  • July 9, 2013 at 9:22 am
    Bubba says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    one more opportunity for fraud and RAISING taxes.

    • July 9, 2013 at 3:10 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      jw, on your question whether we should have social programs at all, I didn’t say that, but do you think we should have 15 different food aid programs going at once? Do you think the government should be accountable to the people? Do you think a greater effort should be made to identify fraud and abuse of the programs? Do you think it is right for several departments to be doing duplicative work on all these programs? The problem lies with a government too big and too intrusive and unresponsive to the people. They basically think they can do whatever they want and won’t be held accountable. Our wonderful IRS is a great example and just got caught releasing Social Security numbers on their website for about 100,000 citizens. Oops! Where did the privacy go?

      • July 10, 2013 at 11:09 am
        jw says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        I don’t know why there are 15 programs, but I do know why there is more than one. To qualify for WIC is a different set of standards & requirements than food stamps. The school meals program is a completely different set of rules.

        Does this make sense? Yes and no. It’s cumbersome, but each program addresses a different need. There may be some duplication of effort, and changing the way the applications work and who oversees the programs would be a considerable undertaking. I don’t see any politician even attempting to go there because it could impact their ability to get re-elected.

        Is there fraud? I’m sure there is. I don’t know how to fix it. Even insurance companies fight fraud and can’t seem to eliminate it.

        • July 10, 2013 at 11:45 am
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          jw, you make my point. It doesn’t make sense and we have an overreaching government who keeps increasing its size with no realization of the consequences. After all, it is not their money, it’s our money they are wasting with duplicative programs. Politicians and bureacrats who keep doing these things may have had good intentions at the start, but it is so far out of control now, no one seems to have a brain to think that perhaps programs that don’t work should be scrapped and many others should be consolidated. It is total idiocy with the people we have in charge currently.

          • July 10, 2013 at 12:03 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            They are not duplicate programs, Agent. The School Lunch program is separate from Food Stamps. The WIC program is separate from the Summer Milk program, etc. Where are there duplicates??

            There may be people getting duplicate assistance, such as a family getting food stamps whose kid also gets a school lunch, but what’s wrong with that?

          • July 10, 2013 at 12:42 pm
            jw says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            The programs aren’t duplicated, it’s the processes for applying that may be duplicated by the different agencies running the programs.

    • July 10, 2013 at 10:25 am
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Planet, if you were of voting age during Carter & Reagan, you might be in your 50′s or 60′s now. Aren’t you a little long in the tooth to be having new babies now? Reagan did a lot to recover the economy and proved that a free market economy is best for this country. I know you are one of these guys who believe in the redistribution of wealth scheme like your President. Why don’t you go to your boss and ask him for a huge raise because he obviously is keeping too much and you are entitled to his money? Have you ever gotten a job working for a poor man? Have you ever had to make payroll and pay all of a business’s operating expenses? Speaking of failures, the ongoing recession of the past 4+ years has one of the highest misery indexes since Carter so no thanks to your new version of Capitalism.

  • July 9, 2013 at 1:36 pm
    Patti Cake in the East says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    F-I-A-S-C-O!! This man is just not presidential material…plain and simple.

    • July 9, 2013 at 2:47 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      So Patti Cake, I saw a cartoon this morning which was a take off on that plane crash in SF. Obama is in the cockpit of an airliner. He said to the co-pilot – What are all those warning lights for? On the dash of the cockpit was a sign – Obamacare.

      • July 9, 2013 at 3:11 pm
        Patti Cake in the East says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Love it, Agent! So fitting!

        • July 10, 2013 at 10:46 am
          Celtica says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Sick, just sick.

          • July 10, 2013 at 11:52 am
            Patti Cake in the East says:
            Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • July 10, 2013 at 12:03 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            What is this kindergarten, PC?

        • July 11, 2013 at 4:46 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Patti Cake, I also saw another one this morning. It has Obama and a patient on a little rail car on a track. Obama says to the patient as he is looking at his cell, my GPS says we are right on track. Inside the dark tunnel in front of them is a light from the oncoming train.

      • July 10, 2013 at 10:45 am
        Celtica says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        This is seriously sick when you insert politics into events that have caused death and serious injuries. Sick, sick, sick.

      • July 10, 2013 at 11:15 am
        jw says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent, you should go to politically-incorrect-humor.com and check out the most recent obama joke (Obama’s first day in hell) – you might find it amusing. I laughed. It’s sick, but very funny.

        • July 10, 2013 at 11:25 am
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Hilarious! Almost as funny as Little Johnny Meets Barack Obama!

          • July 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm
            FFA says:
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            I don’t know that one Libby. Please provide the whole joke.

          • July 11, 2013 at 8:48 am
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Go to wwww.politically-incorrect-humor.com to see it. Not sure it’s post-worthy here…

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:38 pm
            jw says:
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            little johnny was funny!

  • July 9, 2013 at 5:25 pm
    draetish says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    and to top it all off Obama is going to open the flood gates to “free health care for all”. You don’t have to provide proof of income and there is no way to check it. He wants as many people on his Obamacare as he can get so there will be no way to take it back.

    • July 9, 2013 at 5:54 pm
      Agent says:
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      I agree Draetish. This is the mother of all rip off schemes. We thought Medicare/Medicaid had a lot of fraud in it. They will be minor compared to what is going to happen in Obamacare. Let’s hope that it continues to implode as more comes out on it.

    • July 10, 2013 at 10:51 am
      Fed Up says:
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      Exactly. This was the ultimate goal of Obamacare, in my opinion. To entice people with cheese to get on a boat full of holes, have it sink, and then have the government swoop in to save the day… and take the whole thing over.

      • July 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm
        Celtica says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • July 11, 2013 at 7:35 am
          jw says:
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          Celtica, it’s possible that Fed Up is wrong, but you can’t completely discount his statement. I think Fed Up is saying that Obamacare is a ruse to force the country to a single payor system. Fed Up used an interesting analogy, which maybe you didn’t get. I don’t know if Fed Up is right or paranoid, and unless you are privvy to the inner thoughts of Obama, you don’t know either.

      • July 10, 2013 at 2:32 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Fed Up – what in the hell are you talking about???

    • July 10, 2013 at 10:57 am
      TxLady says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      My thought on the no proof of income needed was that this is going to be just like the free cell phone fiasco, only on a far greater scale costing billions more. Someone is going to be paying for it, those who actually have to pay for insurance will be paying for it in terms of much higher premiums with less coverage, like so many are already seeing today.

      • July 10, 2013 at 11:11 am
        Captain Planet says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        TxLady,
        The free cell phone fiasco is another falsehood and lie being bought into by The Right. If you think this administration is responsible, you need to learn the truth:
        http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2012/09/28/crazy-for-obama-phones-but-are-they-for-real/

        • July 10, 2013 at 2:21 pm
          Celtica says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Dear Captain: I demand you stop making sense!

        • July 11, 2013 at 6:41 pm
          bob says:
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          It is a lie, but it was not fostered by the right.

          I’ve already told you that you guys were correct on this, and pointed out free internet is even available in some states/counties.

          You want to believe this is a right side fostered lie. It’s not. It’s basically an idiot fostered lie, which many of us republicans will gladly call out.

        • July 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm
          jw says:
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          bob, I thought you were an independent. Now you’re identifying as a republican. Why?

          • July 17, 2013 at 7:00 pm
            bob says:
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            JW:

            The wording was poor JW but I was including myself in the crowd that would call out the lie as well as other republicans.

            I’m not the only person that points out that the cell phone Obama trash is exactly that, just lying trash.

            Only extreme republicans do that. Moderates don’t. I identify with moderate republicans, so I’m glad to say that I like the majority of republicans do not foster this lie.

          • July 18, 2013 at 8:04 am
            jw says:
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            bob – ok, thanks for replying.

      • July 10, 2013 at 11:18 am
        jw says:
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        Even that Erik Erikson conservative guy admitted the phones were not started by Obama. Move on, TxLady.

  • July 10, 2013 at 11:00 am
    sawtooth says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    “Let me control the money and I care not who makes the laws.”

    It is so true about controlling money. Generally, so many people, even smart ones, are so stupid who can’t control their money. Why is Amerika so far in debt? Maybe they do have an agenda, if so what is it?

    Our educational system has dumbed down the population to the point where dogs are smarter than people. Sad, but I think it might be true.

    • July 10, 2013 at 11:27 am
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      I guess it’s dumbed us all down so much that you spell America with a “k”.

    • July 10, 2013 at 11:35 am
      Agent says:
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      Sawtooth, you are onto something about the educational system. The public schools in this country are among the worst in the world despite receiving record amounts of assistance from government. Drop out rates, particularly in the metro areas are abysmal and the students who do manage to graduate are ill prepared for the real world or to go to college. If they do make it to college, they get a good indoctrination from liberal professors on the wonders of Progressivism and how the country should have a redistribution of wealth. All you have to do is see the bloggers like Libby, Planet, Ron on this blog and you can see where they are coming from.

      • July 10, 2013 at 12:07 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent, I’m sure I’m close to the same age as you are so we went to the same type of schools. I learned no liberal leanings in school. As a matter of fact, I registered Republican for my first Presidential election in which Carter won. I slowly embraced more social liberal views as I got older. And wiser.

        • July 10, 2013 at 2:49 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Libbby, you chose wisely if you voted against Carter. I guess you may have liked Ronny a lot better than the peanut farmer who had no clue. Are you of the same opinion that Planet shared that Ronny ruined the country? Planet is truly from a different planet if he really believes his drivel.

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:28 pm
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Is that the same Reagan who was showing early signs of dementia during his presidency?

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:29 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent – I have to say I do not believe the trickle down theory has worked. Today there is a greater income disparity since the 19th century. Most of the growth has been between the middle class and top earners, with the disparity becoming more extreme the further one goes up in the income distribution. Upward redistribution of income is responsible for about 43% of the projected Social Security shortfall over the next 75 years.

            The Brookings Institution said in 2013 that income inequality was increasing and becoming permanent, reducing social mobility in the US. A 2011 study by the CBO found that the top earning 1 percent of households gained about 275% after federal taxes and income transfers over a period between 1979 and 2007, compared to a gain of just under 40% for the 60 percent in the middle of America’s income distribution. Other sources find that the trend has continued since then.

            So, it’s obvious. The rich are getting richer on the backs of the middle class. This is no longer the land of opportunity, unless you are in the top 1% of the population. I agree with Captain. We need another version of Capitalism.

        • July 15, 2013 at 12:46 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, back in the day when we went to school, they were not driven by ideology and we actually learned something. Today’s schools don’t resemble them at all. The union infested schools don’t teach much and are a joke in the larger metro areas. Ask Sargeant about Detroit or FFA about Chicago and they will fill you in about how bad they are.

          • July 15, 2013 at 1:48 pm
            Nebraskan says:
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            I personally think one of the biggest reasons we are starting to see the US fall behind in education is because of “No Child Left Behind.” I think when you couple No Child Left Behind with the Unions, along with craptastic parenting, it’s no wonder the US is starting to slip in education.

            (And just an FYI, the US is not currently at the bottom of the barrel for education, they are slightly above average. But if things don’t improve, then they will be towards the bottom.)

          • July 17, 2013 at 11:48 am
            Agent says:
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            Libby, you say you have been studying Economics to bring yourself up to speed so you can argue with me. You have also admitted to me that you are fiscally Conservative, but socially liberal. Please explain your confusion since most of us realize that fiscal Conservatism and Liberalism is like mixing oil and water. You can’t be for big government spending with huge deficits every year and be fiscally Conservative at the same time. What would you cut in government spending to arrive at a balanced budget?

          • July 17, 2013 at 3:58 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent, when have I ever said I am for big government spending and huge deficits? Anyone that makes that statement is a fool.

            I have a problem with narrow-minded people that only see one way. You will say I am like that, but I am not. I know the truth lies somewhere in the middle. That is why I try to bring up different perspectives when I post on this blog. Things are not as simple as black and white and the world is full of shades of gray.

            If people were not so hell bent on picking a fight with me, they would find we have more in common than they think.

            Now, go ahead and thumb me down.

          • July 18, 2013 at 8:12 am
            jw says:
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            Agent, I think there is a way to be both a fiscal conservative and support some social programs. Surely there are areas of spending that don’t benefit society as a whole and could be cut from the federal budget. My opinions on what to cut would probably start a new argument, so we don’t need to go there.

            Suffice it to say I have no problem cutting the budgets of many things to allow other programs to survive. You and I would probably disagree on which to cut and which to keep; then again, maybe not.

      • July 10, 2013 at 12:07 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • July 10, 2013 at 4:21 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Planet, there is no need to tell us how you worship Progressives like FDR, Obama. Had you studied real history, you would know that FDR prolonged the Great Depression by 7 or 8 years with his Progressive agenda. Only WW11 got him out of it and most historians will tell you that he got caught with his pants down December 7th, 1941 and ignored all the warning signs about Japanese intentions. We lost several thousand as a result of his and his minions incompetence. There was no need to lose most of our Pacific fleet that horrible day and WW11 would have ended much sooner if he had been smart enough to have the fleet out at sea. As far as your comment on Obama, I agree that he worships the dollar, our tax dollars and will do anything to separate us from our hard earned income.

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:27 pm
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            And this from a supporter of Bush II — who wantonly disregarded a warning of Bin Laden’s intent to strike inside the U.S. — and who willingly went into an unecessary war. Sheesh.

          • July 11, 2013 at 11:53 am
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Celitica,

            We’ve had this debate before: The warning came in summer of 2001, yes, one month before the bombings.

            They didn’t know the attack time, place, method, etc.

            What law could they have passed in one month?

            They didn’t ignore any strike.

          • July 11, 2013 at 12:19 pm
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            >> Bob said: They didn’t know the attack time, place, method, etc. What law could they have passed in one month? They didn’t ignore any strike <<

            You know, Bob, that's the thing about the enemy — they just don't give you specifics as to time, place or method. Murder is already against the law – so what other law could have prevented an attack?

            The Bush Administration completely discounted the threat. Completely. As Condi Rice, our esteemed national security advisor, said, "who could have foreseen the WTC being attacked by aircraft." Ummm…Hollywood could have and routinely had building being attacked in countless movies. Hollywood. Not our national security advisor — but Hollywood.

            Bush was asleep at the wheel.

          • July 11, 2013 at 3:00 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            “The Bush Administration completely discounted the threat. Completely. As Condi Rice, our esteemed national security advisor, said, “who could have foreseen the WTC being attacked by aircraft.” Ummm…Hollywood could have and routinely had building being attacked in countless movies. Hollywood. Not our national security advisor — but Hollywood.

            Bush was asleep at the wheel.”

            Let me reply to you with your comment

            “You know, Bob, that’s the thing about the enemy — they just don’t give you specifics as to time, place or method”

            Bush was not asleep at the wheel. No one knew the method of attack, nor how, nor when.

            What should Bush W have done differently? What law would Obama have passed or what would he / could he have done to prevent the attack?

            If you don’t have an answer you need to drop this. Your cynical, bogus comments need to stop.

          • July 11, 2013 at 3:04 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Celitica,

            If you didn’t catch the zinger there, maybe I should have changed names:

            “You know, Celitica, that’s the thing about the enemy — they just don’t give you specifics as to time, place or method. Murder is already against the law – so what other law could have prevented an attack?”

            It’s the best possible reply I can give you.

            If the answer is that Bush W could have done nothing, then he could have done nothing, and was not asleep at the wheel.

            Next question, and move on. This is near insanity in how you hold on to this, as do other liberals in regards to 9/11 and Iraq.

          • July 11, 2013 at 3:35 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            We hang on because it’s the truth and it’s a travesty that should never be forgotten.

            I only wish we could make him pay for it. He’s a disgrace.

          • July 11, 2013 at 5:25 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            You’re wrong on this one. Give it up.

            You hold on to it because you are partisan, and your side needs something to hold on to.

          • July 12, 2013 at 9:05 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I hold on because I can’t stand George Bush. That does not make me partisan.

          • July 12, 2013 at 10:30 am
            Libby says:
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            If you notice, he is the only Republican president I bash. I may find fault with others on particular issues (ie. H.W. and his relationship with the Saudis) but I don’t bash them.

          • July 12, 2013 at 5:47 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Bob, We should ask Celtica if the Boston Marathon bombers gave Obama any notice before they did their deed. Where was Janet Incompetano all this time? Oops! She just resigned suddenly to help UCal churn out some more little snot nosed Progressives.

        • July 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, since you are fiscally Conservative, again I ask you what you would cut to get to a balanced budget. We know you are for Obamacare so that is clearly off the table on your budget. We had a big budget shortfall before this boondoggle was passed. You have been studying Economics so how does this country get out of the mess it is in. How can private sector jobs be created? How can your 39th ranked Pennsylvania create a great business environment so people can get jobs. As FFA keeps stating, it is all about job creation. Do you or Metric Ron have any solutions?

          • July 18, 2013 at 8:15 am
            jw says:
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            Agent, what items/programs would you KEEP in the federal budget? Start there, and let’s see if we can come up with a compromise.

          • July 18, 2013 at 11:47 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – cuts can probably be made across the board. Some areas more and some less. And let me make myself clear on Obamacare. I support universal healthcare. I don’t necessarily think Obamacare is the best way to accomplish that, but right now it’s the only way we have. Congress should work together to improve it instead of fighting in absolutes over it.

            Jobs will be created when the people with the money start spending it. There is plenty of capital out there, but it is not being used to create jobs in the U.S. because there is no incentive to create jobs here. As long as plants are being built overseas and manned with non-Americans, we will not have a thriving economy in America. The owners of these businesses are making lots of money, but they are not spending it here. That’s due to corporate greed, plain and simple.

      • July 10, 2013 at 1:06 pm
        Ron says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent,

        Were you home-schooled all the way through to your Economics degree?

        • July 10, 2013 at 2:50 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Have you read Milton Friedman yet?

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:12 pm
            Ron says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Agent,

            My degree is also in Economics so I am very familiar with Friedman. I tend to avoid debates regarding economic theories because I agree some and disagree some with both Friedman and Keynes. I have always held the belief that we need private and public sector influence for a successful economy and country. The private sector should handle for profit ventures such as finance, manufacturing, research, insurance, etc. and the public sector should handle areas where the public good outweighs profit such as defense, police/fire, education, infrastructure, etc.

            Anyone who thinks one is more important than the other is very short-sighted in my opinion.

            The reason government is seen as less efficient than the private sector is because their goal is not to maximize profit, but to provide for the general welfare of the people. Unfortunately that can create a situation where expenses are greater than revenues.

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:26 pm
            LiveFree says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Better than Milton Friedman would be Ludwig Von Mises or Murray Rothbard.

            Friedman is a Chicago School economist while Mises and Rothbard are Austrian School economists. Friedman and the Chicago econs believed in demand side economics and supported the Fed pumping more money into the system.

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:34 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            You’re one sharp cookie, Ron.

          • July 10, 2013 at 4:37 pm
            LiveFree says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Ron, I respect your post above about Friedman and Keynes/Private and Public sectors and it’s nice to see a rare well thought-out post on this site.

            While I agree with most of what you said I do however believe that there are much less public sector areas that the government could preform better than the private sector. I believe this is because a private industry’s motive for that profit, although maybe not as important in the big picture as the good is provides to the people, is enough to allow whatever the particular industry is to grow, advance, and become affordable. Without the normal market forces of a private market the government just can’t predict the demand well enough or have the incentive to meet customer’s demand.

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            Ron says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            LiveFree,

            Thank you.

            I think we agree that the government is not as efficient as the private sector due to the profit motive. On the other hand, a profit motive can have a damaging affect on many people when applied to certain services. What happens to people who cannot pay for police/fire protection, education, infrastructure, defense, etc.? No private company was willing to fund the creation of the internet or GM’s bankruptcy. These are a couple examples where we needed the government to step into the private sector, save jobs, and create a more prosperous country.

    • July 10, 2013 at 6:18 pm
      FFA says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Saw tooth – no kidding. Where was the “Fiscal Restraint” when we hit the first Mill? The first Bill? Couldn’t any say – Hey, wait a second???? We need to rethink this.

      My 8 yr old grandson budgets better then whats going on through the course of my life time.

      • July 11, 2013 at 11:02 am
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        FFA, Do you remember like I do during the first days of the Obama Administration where they pledged to go over the budget line by line and start cutting it? Obama charged each of his departments with finding cuts to their multi billion budgets. After a couple of months of studying, they came up with a combined savings of $100 Million with an M. That is on a $3Trillion with a T federal budget. Boy, they sure made a dent, didn’t they? $6 Trillion in deficits later, look what we got and there is no end in sight. The waste and fraud are rampant. I wonder how my banker would feel if I consistently spent a third more than I took in. I think I would have trouble getting a loan, wouldn’t you? I also don’t think I would be in business for long. The government knows they can print more money to pay bills. It is amazing they can still borrow from other countries like China & Japan. The full faith and credit of this country has taken a big hit and we have already been downgraded once making borrowing more expensive and those libs keep singing a happy tune.

      • July 15, 2013 at 11:18 am
        Agent says:
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        FFA, Do you remember the late great Senator Everitt Dirkson saying a billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you are talking serious money. Now, it is a trillion here and a trilion there. The last time I checked, a trillion is a thousand billion. Inflation has gone wild, hasn’t it?

        • July 18, 2013 at 10:21 am
          FFA says:
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          Come on Pay PAl!!! Make that mistake with me and I will write the check for the entire country deficit!o

  • July 10, 2013 at 2:23 pm
    Celtica says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    And then there’s the blurb about Sarah Palin running for senator from Alaska. At least her half term this time will last 3 years instead of the 2 for governor.

    • July 10, 2013 at 4:36 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Ron, the dilemma you have is that you tend to believe that Keynsian economics, priming the pump, increase in government spending is the answer to the problems of the country. Running up huge deficits is really not the way to go and government is inherently wasteful, particularly big government getting bigger by the day. Private sector job creation is the way to restore this economy, creating more tax payers, not tax takers. The wise founding fathers were also afraid of a big overreaching government. That is why they created a Constitutional Republic with three branches that served to check each other if one or more got too big for their breeches. Now, we have an Executive Branch that is imposing its will on the other two. Something has to give on this to restore the country to its former greatness.

      • July 10, 2013 at 4:51 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent – just where do you get that from Ron’s post? He clearly stated he believes there are pros and cons to both theories. You are an all or nothing guy, which really narrows your focus and your mind. At least Ron call see all sides of an issue and come up with his own theories.

        • July 10, 2013 at 5:34 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Ron & Libby, Please give me the “Metrics” on what country in human history has been prosperous and successful with a huge overreaching, big spending government that has controlled all means of production and subjogated their citizens. Please leave the US out of your Metrics. This country was formerly great, but is in steep decline due to Progressive Socialist policies. The signs are everywhere if you open your eyes.

          • July 10, 2013 at 6:19 pm
            Ron says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent,

            Where did you learn your reading comprehension skills?

            When did I EVER make an assertion that I believe in “a huge overreaching, big spending government that has controlled all means of production and subjugated their citizens.”?

            You have such a President G.W. Bush mentality of, “you’re either with us or against us”.

            Please give us the metrics of a country with no government and who let their citizens run free with no laws or restrictions. See I can play that game too.

        • July 11, 2013 at 10:52 am
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Libby, the problem you and Ron & Planet have is that you can’t justify a government that runs trillion dollar debts each and every year. This government is blatantly anti business, inefficient and wasteful as demonstrated every week of the year. How can a government which seeks to control every aspect of our lives expect business to thrive and create private sector jobs if they keep killing jobs like they have? They then raise taxes on the job creators further depressing the market. The only way to get this economy rolling again is creating private sector jobs and providing incentives to business, not hindrances. We do that in Texas and it seems to be working quite well by the way. No wonder Texas leads the nation in new businesses and hiring and companies from the north are moving here.

          • July 11, 2013 at 11:08 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Actually, as of today South Dakota leads the country Agent.

            http://www.cnbc.com/id/100824779

          • July 11, 2013 at 12:05 pm
            Ron says:
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            I will preface this post by saying the following:

            I AM NOT PLACING BLAME OR GIVING CREDIT! JUST STATING FACTS!

            This is for all of you who believe the buck stops with the President and he should accept all responsibility for spending, taxes, debt and deficits. Responses to this post that put blame or credit on anyone, including Congress, are null in void. In other words, I expect no response from Agent.

            President Reagan was President when our debt first went over $1 Trillion.

            In the 36 years from when President Carter took office to the completion of President Obama’s first term there have been 20 years where the growth of the national debt decreased from the prior year and 16 years where it grew by a higher percentage than the previous year. There was a Democrat in the Oval Office during 11 of the 20 years, including the last 3 of Obama’s first term, where the growth of the debt decreased (56% of 36 years) and a Republican in the Oval Office during 11 of the 16 years where the growth of the debt increased (69% of the 36 years).

            To provide additional context, 56% of that time frame a Republican has been the President.

            Someone please explain why we should elect a Republican as President if we are trying to solve our debt problem.

            http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm

            If you have data that disproves this data, please cite your source and I will be happy to research.

          • July 11, 2013 at 12:07 pm
            Ron says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Sorry, I forgot one other interesting tidbit, the only year in which the debt decreased overall occurred while President Clinton was in office.

          • July 11, 2013 at 6:11 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            Again, relevant methodology. When spending spikes from the passage of the largest bailout in history, you don’t expect it to grow the following year.

            The fact that it didn’t decrease, and in fact, continued to increase after the passage of the bail out shows quite a bit.

            Context is everything. Methodology is everything. Following that bail out spending should have dropped sharply. There is a reason why the left uses the phrase “domestic” spending has even decreased in some areas. That’s because most spending isn’t bad right now. It’s just that our presidents feel the need to maintain large scale bail out spending, or stimulus spending, or QE and Twist spending. You do realize if we subtracted those abnormal spending we would be in black right? The amount of growth per year isn’t as much of a problem as the amount of growth in Bush’s year versus the continued growth whereas it should have declined, especially considering the domestic spending has gone down, which is extremely rare. Liberals even commented on it saying Obama had decreased spending (true) in those areas. Which is good. Now if he could stop the primary spending areas of problem, we would be fine.

          • July 12, 2013 at 8:17 am
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            Did Agent teach you reading comprehension?

            Did you miss this statement in my post, “This is for all of you who believe the buck stops with the President and he should accept all responsibility for spending, taxes, debt and deficits.”?

            If you believe that statement then you must hold Carter, Reagan, H.W. Bush, Clinton (with the excpetion of the one year of surplus) and W. Bush to the same standard. If you do not, then you should not have posted anything.

            I just wanted to know why we should elect a Republican as President if we are trying to solve our debt problem since they do not have a good track record. I understand that there are other forces in play, but there have not been very good results.

            You can analyze the data with any methodology you like, but this was put out there because I am sick and tired of people blaming President Obama for all of our debt and deficit problems like it has never happened in the past. Does he play a role in it? Absolutely and I hold him accountable for his part. But I also hold previous Presidents accountable as well. Do you?

            If you have different data, please provide and cite your source.

          • July 12, 2013 at 5:53 pm
            Agent says:
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            Actually Libby, South Dakota has what, 600-700,000 citizens and Texas over 20 Million. Count up the jobs created again. Your figures may be off a little.

          • July 15, 2013 at 11:17 am
            Libby says:
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            They’re not my numbers, agent. It was a survey.

          • July 15, 2013 at 1:55 pm
            Nebraskan says:
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            Oh yeah, I’m on my way to Texas RIGHT NOW, to open a furtilizer factory with $1Million umbrella policy from a C rated carrier and no work comp coverage since I don’t have to carry it. It’s better than SD, Libby, because when I blow the factory up, thanks to minimal regulation, there are more people standing in line for jobs when I restart my company. SCORE! And I cannot believe Agent would champion a state like Texas. I’m pretty sure you can figure out why.

          • July 15, 2013 at 2:02 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yeeee-hah!!

          • July 16, 2013 at 2:31 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, I think your “Metrics” on job creation sucks to put it mildly. Your wonderful CNBC article does not mention how many jobs are created. It just does some rankings on categories. South Dakota does some things well and Texas does some things well. So what! South Dakota has about 5% of the population Texas does and they can’t create many jobs because they don’t have the population to start with. By the way, isn’t the noted tax cheat Tom Daschel from South Dakota? I think he had to back out of a job with Obama because of his past.

          • July 16, 2013 at 2:51 pm
            Libby says:
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            Whatever, Agent. They weren’t metrics. I just happened to see that on msn.com that morning and thought it was interesting so I posted it. Not everything is a slam against you or your precious Texas. Just a fun fact that I thought I’d share. Take off the gloves for a second.

          • July 17, 2013 at 7:07 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            Your catch didn’t fly. I did read your page. You just don’t have very good comprehension skills.

            I listed what caused the deficit.

            Which of those (QE, Twist, Stimulus,) would exist without Obama? 1/3rd the excess deficit from 2009 and 2010 were from the almost 800 billion dollar stimulus plan. $400 billion per year out of 1. to 1.2 trillion dollar deficits. The buck did stop with Obama there. He chose to continue spending. QE and twist are $85 billion per month. Yes, that’s 1.020 trillion per year. The buck stops with Obama, he made that plan, he passed that plan, he pushed that plan, the deficits currently are Obama’s fault.

            Don’t insult my reading skills when you don’t know how to grasp a simple concept.

            You are more focused on proving how presidents are all the same, while voting democrat (I can tell, don’t tell me you don’t, I know the style you argue in) then you are on actually being balanced. If they are both the same then meh, it’s a wash, just vote D!

            It’s not true. Politicians do not fight the same way. Obama is truly spending horribly, and he does have control over the current deficit.

            This is a rare circumstance where the president passed ABNORMAL spending bills consistently. My concept is still true: Spending has only not increased during Obama’s presidency because it maxed out at an explosion that is not maintainable, and somehow, he maintained it rather than coming down.

    • July 10, 2013 at 5:06 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Livefree, there isn’t a government in history that has tried to manage an economy and done a good job at it. If you look back in history, a shining example is the old Soviet Union under Communism. They were in charge of all means of production from agriculture to manufacturing and did a horrible job at it. The citizens lived in abject poverty and stood in lines for bread and toilet paper. No one could get ahead because wages were depressed and food and other necessities were in short supply. The Soviet leaders kept making 5 year plans for production that were never met because there was no incentive to produce more because it belonged to the state anyway. That is one of the prime reasons why Communism fell. They could not compete on the world stage, particularly with America. No government entity whether it be this Administration or a Dictatorship can run a country and have the citizens prosper. I refer you to Venezuela in recent years. Chavez and his dictatorship ran everything there and the citizens have suffered as a result. He would have fallen long before if he weren’t selling oil to the US and other countries because they have little else to offer except coffee.

      • July 11, 2013 at 7:44 am
        jw says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Agent, Livefree’s post actually agreed with you. Livefree said the government can’t do as good a job as the market.

      • July 12, 2013 at 11:24 am
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent – Bill Clinton seemed to do a pretty good job of it. Balanced budget and a surplus for the first time in a very, very long time.

        • July 15, 2013 at 11:24 am
          Agent says:
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          Libby, You conveniently forgot that Clinton was forced to balance the budget by Newt Gingrich and the Republican House. They actually shut the government down for a short period until Clinton agreed with them. I encourage you to look up the Contract with America on the balanced budget. Clinton was also forced to accept Welfare Reform. It is too bad that Contract with America did not extend further and in force today and we might not be running trillion dollar deficits each year.

          • July 15, 2013 at 1:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            However it happened, Agent, it happened on Bill Clinton’s watch. You always want it both ways and you just can’t have it. If Obama is to blame for all that is wrong during his administration, then Clinton can take the praise when things went well during his.

            Either that or you have to back down from your constant bashing of all Democrats.

          • July 15, 2013 at 5:42 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, when a President is forced to capitulate because his agenda was not going to fly, he was not looking out for the best interests of the people. I do give credit to Clinton that he was a pragmatist, saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to go along with fiscal responsibility. He might have been considered to be a better President if he hadn’t had the intern under his desk and then lied about it to a Federal Grand Jury. Impeached but not removed, loss of law license are among his legacy. He also pardoned Mark Rich, the biggest tax cheat in history and did it with the insistence of our present DOJ.

      • July 16, 2013 at 5:16 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, Regarding your little poll, did you also notice that the state you live in, Pennsylvania is the 39th ranked state to do business in. Wow, they have a lot of work to do to get up into the upper echelon of good states. I couldn’t help but notice most of the Blue States are at the bottom of the list. What are they doing wrong in those states to make it so hard to do business?

    • July 11, 2013 at 9:56 am
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Actually, Sarah in the Senate would be refreshing. She and Ted Cruz would really shake up the establishment RINO’s. As I see it, several of the old heads like McConnell, McCain, Graham are not for long and there will be a changing of the guard. It is time for a new direction for the party by people with vision and having a backbone.

      • July 11, 2013 at 10:05 am
        jw says:
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        I hope you’re right.

      • July 11, 2013 at 11:26 am
        Captain Planet says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Oh Lord, please please please let Sarah Palin run. Where can I donate? Please. #guaranteed laugh riot

        • July 11, 2013 at 4:59 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          I’m sure there will be a website to go to Planet if she decides to get in the race and they might even accept your donation if you don’t put a stop payment on it the day you mail it out. Alaska has a Democratic Senator who needs to go so either she or another Republican need to show him the door.

  • July 10, 2013 at 2:53 pm
    Craig Cochran says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    This country is being robbed blind by welfare cheats already. Only a group of total idiots would put an “honor system” in place rather than an actual verification process to establish who is eligible for a government subsidy!

    No wonder we are already so deep in debt that our kids will be suffering for years to pay off the excesses and incompetence of government! And no government in American history has been more incompetent than the Obama Administration. All of them ought to be fired before they ruin this country.

    If an enemy was looking for a way to bury America without having to go to war, they couldn’t do a better job than the plans that Barrack Hussein Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats already have in place. Incompetence and irresponsible don’t even begin to describe how pitiful these people are. And the sad fact is that while Americans suffer because of their actions, those people will be “living the life” on on the backs of the American people when they retire.

    • July 11, 2013 at 9:10 am
      Captain Planet says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • July 11, 2013 at 10:27 am
      Agent says:
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      Good one Craig. When these liberals don’t have any talking points, they always ask for Metrics since they don’t have the brain power or common sense and get their info from left leaning sites. They can’t accept the fact that we have the worst government in the past 50 years. I am sure you saw the story of the Pentagon building a new headquarters in Afghanistan for right at $30 Million and it will never be used. Why would the President say he was winding down in Afghanistan to withdraw and then allow a new military facility to be built? The State Dept built a Consulate in northern Afghanistan in a troubled area. Are they looking to get another Ambassador killed like Benghazi? That building is several million more. If the Libs want proof, watch the news.

      • July 11, 2013 at 10:48 am
        Ron says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • July 11, 2013 at 11:03 am
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          If Dubya approved it, it’s OK with Agent. Them Texas boys gotta stick together you know.

        • July 11, 2013 at 12:59 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Ron, my metrics on the now unneeded military headquarters was right off the tube with pictures, video inside and out. First class all the way. I am sure the contractor made out like a bandit on the charges since they had to include hazard pay due to the dangers from the Taliban. This whole facility is totally useless and will never even open. I noticed you couldn’t help blaming Bush once again for government waste. Who was in charge in Congress during the latter Bush years? They didn’t have to authorize funding for rebuilding Iraq. Did they insist that Iraq pay for our help? Pelosi & Reid were strangely silent when money was being spent. The point is that government, no matter who is in charge is inherently wasteful and politicians have no problem spending when it is not their money.

          • July 11, 2013 at 1:40 pm
            Ron says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent,
            This is why you fail constantly. I already agreed with you about the facility. Why are arguing a point to which I have already conceded?

            You kept bugging me to read Friedman and I did respond. Now it is your turn.

            Please quote me where I blamed President Bush for anything EVER. I only pointed out the fact that the authorization occurred while he was President. I find it hysterical that you hold President Obama responsible for every penny spent in this country, but not President Bush when he was President.

            One of the reasons I tend to disagree with Republicans is that they only complain about government waste that occurs when a Democrat is the President. Can you admit that there was waste during Republican administrations without blaming Democrats?

            Please answer this question with a “Yes” or “No” response, is the President responsible for spending during his administration? I just want all of the Presidents to be judged fairly.

          • July 11, 2013 at 6:54 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Ron,

            I can answer your question by stating two statements:

            Republicans of 1995-2006. Look at the spending per years. Our only surpluses came in those time frames.

            George W’s deficits were negligible by comparison to our new norm. Regarding waste, can you really compare W’s term? He spent a one time fund on a bailout. If he had not spent that, his years were average at worst.

            Obama has mirrored George W’s worst year of spending, and heightened it, for all of Obama’s presidency.

            1 year of wasteful spending versus 4. You decide. We don’t act like Republicans don’t waste. We just know that encouraging long term $1trillion dollar deficits and saying they are ok, was not done by the republicans 1995-2006. And it seems after they left, the democrats pulled a pretty bad number.

            Now as to whether or not Obama is to blame for the stimulus? Yes. That’s bad spending. Is Obama to blame on QE and Twist? These are about a trillion a year in recent years. YES. Check the boxes, then move on. Would we have spent those without Obama? No.

            Check the box, move on.

            You aren’t balanced. Get over it.

          • July 11, 2013 at 6:57 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Ron,

            If you didn’t catch it, Obama is responsible for every piece of legislation that has been passed that has a substantial affect on the deficit.

            Normally, in a presidency that isn’t the case. We just pass normal budgets. That would be why this is a rare case when you can blame the president. The stimulus, QE and twist though, aren’t normal budgets. They are put in because of Obama.

            I’m tired of people like you pretending we can’t blame Obama for the spending. We dang well can. Those were his pieces of legislation.

        • July 11, 2013 at 6:16 pm
          bob says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Ron,

          Dishonest method of debate.

          What he’s referring to is the type of comments. You yourself admitted that one metric you used was the approval of our healthcare system in comparison to other industries, while Agent and Libby were arguing outcome.

          It was a bad comment to make, but more interestingly you then revealed you knew that was the case after Agent made a bold comment. Agent walked into it. You set it up. But that actually shows you debate for points. Not the actual topics. The point he didn’t know about wasn’t the topic he was debating.

          You knew this. You used this.

          I respect your intelligence, I don’t respect that you attempt as hard as possible to discredit others in dishonest methods.

          I think you have been trained to believe both parties are equal, while you definitely prefer left. That is an easy belief. I’ve seen it too often. You want a difficult one, don’t seek out the people like Agent to debate with. Debate people with points.

          Debate people like Libby.

          I think she’s wrong, but at least she actually puts forward points. Helps me to know what exactly the liberals put out and find the counterpoints.

          • July 15, 2013 at 6:08 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, You may have seen the Article from Investor’s Business Daily providing some statistics from a survey done by the United Nations International Health Organization. Percentage of men and women who survived cancer five years after diagnosis. US – 65%, England, 46%, Canada, 42%. Percent of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within 6 months. US -93%, England, 15%, Canada, 43%. Percent of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within 6 months, US – 90%, England 15%, Canada, 43%. Percent referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month – US 77%, England, 40%, Canada 43%. Number of MRI scanners per million people, US 71, England 14, Canada 18. Percentage of seniors (65+) with low income who say they are in excellent health – US 12%, England – 2%, Canada 6%. Judging from this survey, Socialized Medicine does not work so well despite Libby & Ron’s claim to the contrary.

          • July 16, 2013 at 12:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            Couldn’t find it. Doubt it exists. Post link or keep phony numbers to yourself.

          • July 16, 2013 at 12:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            Just as I thought! 1. The Investor’s Business Daily has no article with this data.

            2. There is no such entity as the United Nation’s ‘International’ Health Organization. Presumably the author was attempting to claim the source of the ‘data’ came from the U.N.’s WORLD Health Organization.

            3. None of these statistics can be gathered from the data on the WHO’s website. Especially something as specific as a hip replacement.

            4. The data is seemingly in direct conflict with data on the WHO website/survey.

            5. And my final reason why this must be fake…its plastered all over the right-wing blogosphere being touted as real data. It does in fact have quite a following.

            Agent – quit embarrassing yourself by posting these ridiculous statements. All we have to do is fact-check you to expose you.

      • July 11, 2013 at 10:53 am
        Libby says:
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        Agent – if you were so sure of your statements, you would have no problem providing sources or metrics. The problem is, the right-wing is famous for slinging out rubbish just to see what sticks to the wall. You know what happened to Chicken Little, don’t you? The fox is still licking his chops.

        • July 11, 2013 at 12:58 pm
          Celtica says:
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          • July 11, 2013 at 6:21 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            The economy is bad.

            Housing has not recovered. Employment growth following a sharp decline is slow. After a sharp decline it usually sharply goes up. This is by definition a slow recovery.

            Moving on: The DOW doubled because we shifted money into the pocket of big business by buying their mortgage securities. This allows them to keep making loans, and keep getting money. But again, housing sales are down. Housing prices are up. People can’t afford homes. Incomes are stagnant.

            This means as soon as interest rates go up, those homes are not affordable. Not unless income rises sharply. Which it won’t. Thus another bubble. This is a fact.

            Unless housing prices go down we will have exactly the same bubble, and then will we spend the same way to get out of it?

            Inflating the market doesn’t help the people who buy from the market. It helps wall street. Not main street. You tell me the average person can afford a $200,000 plus home on $40,000 a year with a more normal historical interest rate and I’ll call you a liar. The government cannot keep buying interest rates into low rates. But they could let the housing prices go down. People would have tons of money left over after buying their house which they could buy other commodities with that aren’t inflating as well, like gas and food, which this is an undeniable fact: They have inflated by at least 200%. My food bill if I eat actual food food is in excess of $500 a month for my family. That is not normal. It is the result of QE.

        • July 11, 2013 at 1:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          Watch the real news sometime Libby. CNN or the other lamestream media won’t cover anything not favorable to Obama. They had pictures, video and descriptions of this boondoggle.

        • July 11, 2013 at 3:45 pm
          Agent says:
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          Ron, Have you ever heard the famous term from Harry Truman that the buck stops here? He had it right on his desk by the way. The President sets the agenda for his agenda each year. He is also the Commander in Chief and all departments of the government report to him and try to justify their existence with budgets. Why did he say he would go over the budget line by line and make cuts in spending if he had no intention to do so? Why are his department heads not following his statement and coming up with real cuts? He doesn’t seem to have a problem sending the Muslim Brotherhood $250 million while imposing Sequestration on the American People. Yes, I agree there was waste during Republican Administrations so does that make you happy? Do you have a Metric that compares waste between Bush and Obama? Which one doubled Food Stamps recipients with fraud and corruption galore? There is a serious lack of leadership and wanting to get the economy recovered with this President. Perhaps you remember him saying in his first term that he would focus like a laser on the economy and the last thing he thought about before going to sleep was working to restore the economy. What did he do but start a 2 year campaign to sell Obamacare instead of working on the economy first? The priorities are not the right ones and he is an abysmal failure as a leader.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:00 pm
            Libby says:
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            I like his priorities. Healthcare for all Americans should be job #1 for him. Yes. It’s that important.

            And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the economy IS recovering. Pay attention.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:04 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I will be happy to continue to answer all of your questions as soon as you respond to a few outstanding requests that I have asked from you repeatedly;
            1. Please quote me where I blamed President Bush for anything EVER.

            2. When did I EVER make an assertion that I believe in “a huge overreaching, big spending government that has controlled all means of production and subjugated their citizens.”?

            When make accusations about someone, you had better have some evidence, period.

            3. Regarding why Articles of Impeachment have not been brought against President Obama yet;
            a. Isn’t stopping the destruction of the country worth the risk of being called a racist?
            b. Are the Republicans more worried about there own image than the future of the country?

            4. Upon what SPECIFICALLY would you base the Articles of Impeachment? Please cite the source(s) of your evidence.

          • July 11, 2013 at 6:27 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Libby:

            Healthcare is available for all Americans. You mean health insurance for all Americans.

            I won’t have this debate with you again.

            If people are dying from lack of “healthcare” then do the following:

            1. Look up the average life expectancy in the various countries.

            2. Look up our delta from the norm for vehicular deaths and crime. Note that the people in these areas are usually younger. (alcohol incidents especially)

            3. Note that we have an obesity rate over 30%. May even be 35% now.

            4. Note the obesity rate in England and Switzerland as well as Canada. The rates are about 1/3rd ours.

            5. Note the life expectancy again, after removing the unnatural deaths. WE ARE EQUAL.

            6. Consider how we are equal in life expectancy, if our lifestyles are worse.

            7. The only possible conclusion is that our healthcare is BETTER.

            Next question, get over it, move on.

          • July 11, 2013 at 6:33 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron:

            I’ll answer for Agent.

            2. When did I EVER make an assertion that I believe in “a huge overreaching, big spending government that has controlled all means of production and subjugated their citizens.”?

            You have defended over reaches. Next question.

            When make accusations about someone, you had better have some evidence, period.

            3. Regarding why Articles of Impeachment have not been brought against President Obama yet;

            a. Isn’t stopping the destruction of the country worth the risk of being called a racist?

            This is a dishonest method of debate and a dishonest question. The obvious answer is yes.

            b. Are the Republicans more worried about there own image than the future of the country?

            No. They are more worried about the perception of their actions, and thus the ability of them to make a change. When they go direct in saying the country is being destroyed, they can’t get anything done because it is used against them. Bad politics costs you the ability to make the change you want. They are more focused with stopping the democrat image than anything right now, in order to get us back on track. I know you will then say “EXACTLY JUST LIKE DEMOCRATS!!”. There are differences between saying “the health care will ruin the nation” and then “if you don’t pass our health care people will die”. You might not grasp it, but I do.

            4. Upon what SPECIFICALLY would you base the Articles of Impeachment? Please cite the source(s) of your evidence.

            Irrelevant. We went through impeachment proceedings for “lying” in the past. If it could be established that Obama is intentionally lying about the republican party on major issues, it would go through. The only reason it wouldn’t, is basically we already know how that would play out. Everyone would try to impeach everyone.

            Let’s leave voting in charge for now, and forget impeaching. We know that Agent just basically hates Obama. Leave it at that rather than trying to make an inept debate about it. I feel dumber having even given your questions the time of day, because my answers mean nothing.

          • July 12, 2013 at 8:03 am
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            If you were following the debate between Agent and myself you would undersatand why I needed to ask those questions. Even you could not quote me making any assertion where I believe in “a huge overreaching, big spending government that has controlled all means of production and subjugated their citizens.” Stating, “You have defended over reaches.” is not evidence, it is ambiguous and lazy. If you do not have the time to review all of my posts to find such evidence then just say, “I have nothing” and move on.

            If the obvious answer is no, then Agent cannot come with a legitimate reason for president Obama to be impeached. It is not irrelevant for me to ask why Agent believes President Obama should be impeached. If there is no legitimate reason for him to be impeached, then those calling for his impeachment need to stop. He is the President of ALL U.S. citizens whether you like him or not.

            Thank you for outlining why Independents like myself do not like most Republicans. You are there to make the country better, not just stop the other side. You and the Republicans may believe stopping President Obama and the Democrats will make the country better, but that is not the perception of the majority of voters.

            Mitch McConnell’s famous quote, “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” destroyed much of the Republicans’ credibility. This has lead many voters to think that Republicans will stop anything President Obama wants to acomplish. Some of those things may be bad for the country and the Republicans should be applauded for their efforts to stop those, but to most voters it comes across ask they stopped it because it would help and they do not want it to look like President Obama turned the country around.

            What is the difference between image and the perception of one’s actions?

            The fact is, Democrats not only maintained the White House, but also gained seats in the House and Senate in 2012. Perception is reality in politics and if they do not come up with a better plan than we need to stop the Democrats, they will have great difficulty gaining the power necessary to make the changes they feel will “restore this country”. I am not saying that the Democrats have better ideas, but they are sure better at selling them.

          • July 12, 2013 at 3:42 pm
            Agent says:
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            Actually Bob, a report has come out that Mexico is now ahead of the US in obesity. Gee, I guess that Nutrisystem really works with the glycemic index etc and we are making real “progress”. Now, if we can choke down some of Michelle’s broccoli, we will all be so much better off. Did you also see the report that Kelly Services is the second biggest employer behind Walmart? We are rapidly becoming a part time/temp work force. I wonder what caused that. Full time jobs declined by 240,000 jobs and temps/part time increased.

          • July 12, 2013 at 3:57 pm
            Libby says:
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            What point are you trying to make, Agent? Is obesity related to the number of part-time jobs in America? Not sure where you’re coming from with that.

          • July 16, 2013 at 11:11 am
            Agent says:
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            So Ron, you keep asking what specifically would determine whether the Articles of Impeachment be filed against Obama. The oath of office is to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We have a President who has given aid and comfort to our enemies and is funding the Muslim Brotherhood and gave them $250 Million recently to build up their arms so they can do Jihad with them. Morsi is no friend of the US and the Muslim Brotherhood is sworn to Jihad in about 80 countries including this one. Please try to justify this with your Metrics on what nice guys these are.

          • July 17, 2013 at 7:26 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            Since my other comment didn’t post (likely due to being too long)

            I’ll point out something simple:

            Stopping the democrat attacks, and repairing their image, is exactly the right thing to do when democrats are going on an all out flame war. Republicans apparently will kill our elders, starve our children, and rob our social security and medicare right?

            Stopping that image is the only way to make change. Thank you for making the point that you’re not a moderate. You accept that politics are necessary, only when democrats do it. And that when republicans do bad politics, it’s horrible, when democrats do it to get into office (over the patriot act, then resigning it, did you see the campaign email stating that 3 million elderly and children would go without a hot meal and it said I’M NOT KIDDING about how dire it was to vote democrat?) etc. Democrats are engaging in tactics that will destroy this country right now, and the most important thing is repairing the image to stop them.

            For example: The recession was not the result of low taxes on the rich. The recession was not caused by republicans, and inflating the housing market will hurt like hell when interest rates come down, and will have built up about 4 trillion dollars of debts that will need higher taxes to pay (hint, it all can’t come from the rich).

            Really. When they out and said that, you know what happened? Obama called them liars, and people (likely you included) said that they should never say that.

          • July 18, 2013 at 8:29 am
            jw says:
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            bob, FWIW I agree that the recession was not caused by republicans. No question the housing collapse started the ball rolling and that was a result of people buying more than they could afford (a direct result of changing lending practices). Also, taxing the “rich” will not fix this. Although, fixing the tax code (for all levels of income) would be helpful, it won’t make a dent without reducing spending. So, on these points we appear to agree.

            Where we all seem to disagree is HOW to fix the deficit. That and how to provide healthcare.

          • July 18, 2013 at 11:59 am
            Libby says:
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            I thought Democrats were going to kill our elders with Obamacare’s “death panels.” And seniors are going to suffer because Obamacare takes $715M from medicare. And if you cut $51M from the food safety programs, some people WILL go without a meal.

            See? Both sides do it, so get off your high horse that it’s only Democrats.

        • July 11, 2013 at 4:27 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Libby, I know you try not to watch the news so let me give you and Ron some Metrics and let you know what your President said on July 4th on our Independence Day. Traditionally, Presidents make speeches on Independence Day celebrating the year we won Independence from then oppressor England. Apparently, the President forgot he had an open mic kind of like when he told Russia he would be more flexible in his second term. This time was 10 times worse. Before they could kill his mic, he uttered the following:

          God, this holiday sucks! All this national pride s— gets on my nerves.
          You’d think we’d stop celebrating the birth of the worst imperial power in history – but noooo, we have to do this flag waving BS every year. I can’t believe I have to miss a good day of golf for this crap. Could have been at Oakmont with Jay-Z now trying out that new Callaway set that Alec Balwin gave me. Damn this day sucks!

          Several reporters clearly heard these terrible things said by your Commander in Chief including the Washington Times, the far left reporter from http://www.duhprogressive.com who confirmed what was said. I only hope this goes to utube and gets 300 million views. Are you still proud to have this man as your President who has demonstrated his hatred and bias against this great country? If you are proud to have him, you need counseling to help you overcome your brainwashing. That goes for Bush bashing Celtica as well.

          • July 11, 2013 at 4:52 pm
            Libby says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • July 11, 2013 at 6:36 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Libby,

            Correct me if I’m wrong, aren’t you the one who thought it was true that George W Bush called the constitution a “god #%@%# piece of paper!!”?

            Or was that Planet?

            Regardless, I don’t need to hear anymore on any of those types of comments and you guys both make them. So going at Agent for it is a little bit hypocrite in style.

          • July 12, 2013 at 9:22 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            No, I did not make that statement. And I only go after Dubya for the Iraq war and the fact that he’s almost illiterate.

          • July 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm
            Agent says:
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            Wow Bob, You seem to have had an impact on jw and she/he agrees with you on something. Too bad Libby still doesn’t get it. Those of us who have been paying attention know the housing crisis was started during Clinton’s administration and carried forward through GW when everyone seemed to be on the bandwagon wanting home ownership for everyone. What they forgot was there was a sizable percent of the population that had no business owning a home or had any hopes of making house payments. Fannie & Freddie were out of control and Congress (Bawney & Chris) kept saying they were sound when they weren’t. Then, we had all the thugs on Wall Street peddling the bad mortgages as if they were good and we ended up in crisis. This was clearly both parties fault and the taxpayers got the shaft once again. The deficit we have had for years is a function of wild Keynesian spending schemes and politicians are drunk on it. The only way to cure it is vote the current regime out and elect people who have fiscal responsibility as a #1 priority. All departments of government are not inviolate. Making conditions favorable for hiring private sector workers should also be a priority. We have as many tax takers now as taxpayers. It is a joke. The flat or fair tax instead of a Progressive tax would cure a lot of evils and everyone should have skin in the game, not just the half that pay all the taxes in this country.

          • July 19, 2013 at 7:31 am
            jw says:
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            Agent, you can’t give bob credit for changing my mind. I never disagreed about how the recession started. I actually knew about stupid lending practices when I bought my house. The bank was willing to lend me 30% more than I had budgeted. (BTW I bought a house I could afford.) So, I wasn’t surprised when the foreclosures started and I connected the dots by myself. If I gave the impression I disagreed about how the recession started, I must have misunderstood the conversation. Which is not difficult to do on these forums.

  • July 11, 2013 at 10:42 am
    Riverdrinker says:
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    TxLady,

    You are more confused than you think. We no longer live under the Constitution and haven’t for quite some time. The only time it is brought up is when the political/criminal class wants to use it to their advantage. All the rest of the time they violate it and their oaths to it with impunity.

  • July 11, 2013 at 11:07 am
    Mike says:
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    Couldn’t agree more with Txlady.. The King has no clothes..

  • July 11, 2013 at 12:11 pm
    FFA says:
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    On the WGN News this AM, my favorite governor to bash – Quinn in IL made a bold statement.
    He is not going to pay the Legislatures – himself included – until this pension crises is worked out. I wonder if Obama is paying attention in DC??????

    • July 12, 2013 at 10:04 am
      Agent says:
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      So FFA, I saw an article per the Chicago Sun Times that Dead Fish wants to solve the gun violence by making the gun laws even more stringent. Gee, I wonder what all those thugs buying their guns on street corners will do now. Maybe they will all go down to city hall and turn their guns in so the shootings will stop very soon, right?

      • July 12, 2013 at 10:35 am
        Libby says:
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        Instead, we should increase the penalties on anyone caught with an illegal firearm. It should be mandatory jail time.

        • July 12, 2013 at 11:46 am
          Agent says:
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          Libby, I don’t think they have enough room in the jails in Chicago for all the thugs running around with illegal firearms. I also don’t think Rahm and his Police Dept are bringing in many of these gang bangers that are doing all these shootings. Perhaps they should be arresting the dudes that are providing the illegal weapons and cut off the supply.

          • July 12, 2013 at 12:36 pm
            Libby says:
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            That would be good, too.

          • July 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            True on that 9Jails over Crowded). School season may bring yet another increase / wave of violence.

            Rahm better get behind Rickets and let them renovate Wriggley. $500M creates a lot of jobs. Poor roof top owners cant sponge off the Cubs any more.

            Chicago needs to be looking over their shoulder – Mayor of Rosemont wants what they have. WriggleyVille would end up being another ghost town with out the Cubs.

  • July 11, 2013 at 1:04 pm
    Agent says:
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    So Quin has the power of the check book in Illinois, right? These guys should not be paid. They may be waiting a long time since this pension deal is big time in the hole. The pensions in California are in just as desperate shape. It has already caused some cities to declare bankruptcy. Maybe Illinois can take Chapter 11 and all pensions void and they can dig their way out.

    • July 11, 2013 at 1:13 pm
      FFA says:
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      I think Topinka (comptroller) writes the checks. I don’t know if Quinn can or cant withhold their payroll. Part of the story was the legalities of it. They did not report one way or the other (that I caught).

      Legal or not – An Impressive & Bold statement. Would lead me to believe that he is fed up. I hope he does it. A message needs to be sent to all politicians – time to start working together regardless of party affiliation.

      • July 11, 2013 at 2:03 pm
        LiveFree says:
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        I am far less concerned with them working together than them working for the people’s best interest in mind and not their next election.

        • July 11, 2013 at 2:18 pm
          FFA says:
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          Whats going on in Springfield is far from any ones best interest – their political career included.
          People in IL are fed up with what goes on down state and the legislatures are feeling heat from – yes – the people. General message – get off your dead stubborn a&^ and get something done. IE work or get fired!

          • July 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            FFA says:
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            One way or another, this is going to be interesting to watch it play out.

  • July 12, 2013 at 12:14 pm
    FFA says:
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    HMMMMM. Not a word about this on last night new or this morning news. Nothing from either side.

    Maybe, just maybe, they are actually working????

    • July 12, 2013 at 5:18 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, At least we got the good news that Incompetano was out as Homeland Security. She has been in over her head from the start. Anyone who describes the Ft Hood shooting as “workplace violence” instead of homegrown Terrorism is without a clue. Hassan has said he did the shooting to protect the Taliban from US soldiers. Alluah Akbar! I wonder what they ended up calling the Boston bombing. Can you believe that Terrorist kid pleading “not guilty”? My guess is that Boston will spend several million prosecuting him and it will drag on for years. Hey, FFA, where do you think DHS is storing those 2 billion rounds of hollow points they bought? Chicago?

  • July 13, 2013 at 12:16 pm
    FFA says:
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    Agent says – “Can you believe that Terrorist kid pleading “not guilty”?”.
    Of course I can. Its America. Its always someone elses fault. Its the day and age of passing the buck, not accepting responsibility for our actions. Our pres does it (Bengazi), why not him????

    • July 15, 2013 at 3:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, I saw a good one the other day. It said there are three things that Chicago is famous for. 1. Pizza 2. Gangsters 3. Corrupt Politicians. One thing is for sure. Obama is not a pizza.

      • July 17, 2013 at 2:19 pm
        FFA says:
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        I would agree with 2 & 3. Mom 100% Italian. No one, except my Gr Ma & Great Gr Ma could top her pizza. In todays world, I would put 3 ahead of 2.

        • July 17, 2013 at 5:45 pm
          Agent says:
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          I don’t have Italian blood, but I can eat Italian three or four times a week without getting tired of it. I understand the deep dish Chicago pizza is the best. You can make a meal with one or two slices of it. I am getting hungry already.

          • July 18, 2013 at 10:55 am
            jw says:
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            We shouldn’t talk food; especially good food. Now I’m getting hungry. We’re having an ice cream social today at my office. I’m usually anti-social, but we have whipped cream today. Yeah, I have to go now.

        • July 18, 2013 at 8:32 am
          jw says:
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          So, FFA, did you get your mother’s pizza making skills?

          • July 18, 2013 at 10:35 am
            FFA says:
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            I can eat 7 days a week 3 x a day.
            I do like to cook, but NO ONE ALIVE will ever top mom. My sis comes in close.
            My new office has a full kitchen, so maybe I’ll start cooking again.
            JW, no one I know can duplicate my moms pizza just like no one could duplicate my Great G Mas or my G Mas. I don’t know what G Ma did with her meat balls. She always told me it was the love. I can remember the taste today, about 15 years after her passing.

          • July 18, 2013 at 10:53 am
            jw says:
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            Aaah. No great cooks in my family, so I can only imagine. I’m officially jealous.

          • July 18, 2013 at 12:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            Nobody can top my Grandpa’s hamburgers. Don’t know what he did to them, but they tasted like no burger I’ve ever had since. But you’re right, we shouldn’t talk about food. I’m getting married next month and have to fit into my dress!

          • July 18, 2013 at 12:58 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, My grandmother was a farm woman who made it to age 101. Everytime we went for a visit, we ate fresh farm food which was unbelievable. She passed on her skills to her 4 daughters so my mother was an impressive cook as well. My family couldn’t rub two nickels together when we were growing up, but we didn’t starve. I have great memories of that farm and the good times we shared.

    • July 15, 2013 at 5:32 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, According to the Gallup Poll taken last week, Americans are against Obamacare 52%. In November of 2012, the number was 45% opposed. What has happened recently to bump the numbers up on the disapproval? If the trend continues and early 2014 hits with the huge rate increases, trouble with the exchanges etc, the number could increase to 2/3rds against this terrible legislation. I am sure Libby & Planet will continue to whistle a happy tune.

      • July 17, 2013 at 2:31 pm
        FFA says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        BTW, is not viewed as black on black in Chi – its Gang vs Gang with many innocent by standers getting caught by stray bullets or getting caught in the cross fire.

        School Season – if you believe the Union – is going to bring around another wave / increase in violence. This time Innocent Victims will be Grade School Children.

        I don’t see any plan being laid out by City Officials to avert this “situation”. Don’t mean there are not plans in place, just means I have yet to see / hear them.

        • July 17, 2013 at 5:40 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, if it is gang vs gang, what has Dead Fish done to round up these gangs and bring them to justice? Doesn’t Chicago have SWAT up there to do raids, arrest them, confiscate their weapons? I bet they could match up the bullets to the weapons used in all these shootings unless they have done away with the Crime Labs. Good, solid Police work could solve a bunch of these crimes and get these thugs off the street. I don’t know about Illinois, but Texas still has Capital Punishment. We just gave another one the needle the other day so he will do no more harm to society.

          • July 18, 2013 at 10:38 am
            FFA says:
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            He dis mantled the Gang Task Force. Rahm needs to bring in the PC from Aurora, IL. All of 2012 without a single murder. An amazing job well done out there. Years past – hot bed of gang activity.

      • July 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, Did you see the story on Jimmy Hoffa, Jr sending a letter to the White House demanding action to fix Obamacare? They have seen their projected costs on benefit packages and it is not a pretty site. If union members are thrown to the exchanges as is expected to happen, they will get a subsidy to afford healthcare and the unions will lose much of their membership. Why would a current union member stay in the union if one of their big perks goes away. This is all interesting since the unions were 100% for this and worked tirelessly to get Obama re-elected and now they think they were betrayed. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

        • July 18, 2013 at 2:23 pm
          Libby says:
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          Agent – contrary to popular belief, union benefits are not free. They are paid for in monthly dues. I would imagine if healthcare is no longer offered, union members will demand a reduction in their dues.

          • July 18, 2013 at 2:52 pm
            Agent says:
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            It will be interesting Libby to see how much of the membership leaves altogether over this. Many of the rank and file don’t appreciate the bosses spending their dues money on a political agenda instead of good faith negotiation of wages/benefits.

    • July 17, 2013 at 11:30 am
      Agent says:
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      FFA, I wish we had an Attorney General as concerned about Black on Black shootings happening in Chicago as he is making such a “Federal” case out of Zimmerman/Martin. This case points out that the Justice system in this country is not good enough to decide innocence or guilt and everything is politics 24/7. How about all the murders in Chicago of young blacks? How about Justice for them? Ron, if you need Metrics, ask FFA since he lives there and sees it first hand each and every week.

      • July 17, 2013 at 2:24 pm
        FFA says:
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        I saw the pictures of what Martin did to Zimmermans face. From what I heard on the news, Martin was beating Zimmermans face into the Cement. Zimmermans face was a mess in the pics I saw. I would shoot someone too if they were beating my face into the cement. Don’t matter color, creed, gender, as a general rule, you pound my face into cement, I will shoot you.

        My fear – the violence in Chicago needs the attention of the national guard. Not desirable by any means. Nor do I want to see it. Nor am I an advocate of it. Whats going on is not working.

        • July 17, 2013 at 4:44 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, Yes, I saw them too. It was clearly self defense and that is what the jurors determined based on the evidence. That doesn’t seem to matter in this country anymore.

          On a lighter note, did you see the All Star game last night? I know you are a National League guy and I am an American League guy who roots for the Rangers. It was a well played game even if there wasn’t a whole lot of offense. Pitching dominates in these games. Baseball has really turned over the players and I could hardly recognize most of the subs. I tell you, the Rangers really made a boo boo when they traded Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter away to the Orioles. All they got in return was a broken down Japanese reliever who hardly ever sees action. Davis leads the majors in home runs and RBI’s and Hunter is a key reliever for Baltimore. Even with this trade fiasco, they are competitive, but Oakland with its $22 million payroll will hand them their head in the division.

          • July 17, 2013 at 5:39 pm
            FFA says:
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            No Agent, I did not catch the game. So darn Humid up here yesterday, I spent most of last night on the town pool with the grand kids. There was a huge amount of young moms hanging around.
            All I could think was – OINK!

          • July 18, 2013 at 8:39 am
            jw says:
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            Mariano Rivera is the bomb.

            Yes, I’m a Yankee’s fan. I’ve followed Joe Girardi since he came up with the Cubs. Now he’s managing the Yankees.

          • July 18, 2013 at 10:41 am
            FFA says:
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            A Major Mistake ;letting Joe walk. Cubs lost him in the expansion draft. Left him unprotected hoping his $$$ would keep him in Chicago. Colorado – Smart cookies. Miami dumb asses – letting him go for Ozzie.

          • July 18, 2013 at 10:50 am
            jw says:
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            The Cubs lost Joe and Greg Maddux and I haven’t really cheered for the Cubs since.

          • July 19, 2013 at 1:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            letting Maddux walk was a major blunder.
            Allowing Sandberg to leave the organization a huge mistake by the Rickets family.

          • July 19, 2013 at 2:06 pm
            jw says:
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            I wondered what happened to Sandberg. By the time he left, I was only listening with half an ear.

            When you string all these poor player moves together like this, I can see why the Cubs haven’t won the series in how ever many years it’s been. Have they EVER won the World Series?

        • July 18, 2013 at 2:48 pm
          Agent says:
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          So FFA, did you see the story about the organization called the Armed Citizen Project? They are working on becoming a 501(c)(3)but may have to wait 2 or 3 years to get approved by the IRS since they are a Conservative organization. The ACP’s purpose is to take firearm donations from private citizens and give them to unarmed citizens after performing background checks and giving firearms training. The Democrats are for redistribution so ACP is redistributing arms to citizens so they can defend themselves against the hoods. Single mothers, the poor, the elderly are most in need and the idea is create responsible gun owners in the community and offer protection the Police don’t. I think it is a great idea, don’t you?

          • July 19, 2013 at 1:52 pm
            FFA says:
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            If Sr & Sharpton can exploit tragedies for their own purposes, so can Rolling Stone.

    • July 18, 2013 at 1:02 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, Rolling Stone Magazine tried to glorify that Terrorist kid putting him on the cover like a rock star. Now, they are having backlash and stores refusing to sell it. If we are lucky, they will lose their advertisers as well and will go out of business.

      • July 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm
        jw says:
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        Hey, Agent, I’m not sure, but I get the impression you don’t like the Rolling Stone.

        • July 18, 2013 at 3:41 pm
          Agent says:
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          jw, you are absolutely correct. You shouldn’t be a fan either since they are trying to glorify a Muslim Terrorist who killed and maimed so many people in Boston. I am sickened that they show people that support him and declare him innocent. We have a small segment of our society who are totally bonkers and don’t know right from wrong. I wonder what they would think if they were missing legs and arms after this guy and brother set off their bombs. I hope you don’t reply that “we shouldn’t jump to conclusions”. We have heard enough of that from this administration in the past 4+ years.

          • July 18, 2013 at 4:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            Here’s a perspective from Bloomberg:

            “The 10,000-plus comments on Rolling Stone’s Facebook page today make an interesting read — every other one is a promise to cancel a Rolling Stone subscription. But provocative magazine covers sell, and no doubt this one will too. As a business decision, the editor no doubt made the right call. I just have to wonder if he would have made the same decision if he had once had an 8-year old son named Martin Richard.” – Marc Champion is a Bloomberg View editorial board member.

          • July 19, 2013 at 7:19 am
            jw says:
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            I’m not a fan, either. In all honesty, I’ve never read anything in Rolling Stone, and certainly never bought the magazine. As far as jumping to conclusions, I think the still shots from security cameras are enough for me to say he’s guilty.

  • July 15, 2013 at 5:47 pm
    Doubting Thomas says:
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    TxLady,

    There is a caveat/exception. There is a clause inside the bill that says the HHS Secretary can change deadlines as she sees fit – ergo – Obama can change deadlines as he sees fit.

    • July 18, 2013 at 5:55 pm
      Agent says:
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      What is your opinion on this Libby? I could care less what the editor thought. Do you think this kid Terrorist should be in the same category as a rock star? Do you think he committed a horrific act of Terrorism? Would you be proud to call him your son? I have heard their subscriptions are only about 70,000 and if the stores refuse to sell them on their stands, don’t you see that having a negative effect on them?

      • July 19, 2013 at 11:28 am
        Libby says:
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        Absolutely. I think is was in very poor taste, especially using the picture they did. My point was that in a free market society, Rolling Stone can publish any cover they want. But no, I would not buy it.

      • July 19, 2013 at 11:28 am
        Libby says:
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        It may have actually backfired on them.



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