Hobby Lobby Wins Stay Against Birth Control Mandate

July 22, 2013

  • July 22, 2013 at 9:32 am
    ExciteBiker says:
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    True or False?

    The personal private religious beliefs of Hobby Lobby owner David Green trump the rights and interests of his 21,000 employees in 550 stores across 45 states.

    • July 23, 2013 at 11:45 am
      Dunn says:
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      If they don’t like it, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

      • July 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm
        Jon says:
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        The EEOC disagrees.

  • July 22, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    Libby says:
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    • July 22, 2013 at 1:34 pm
      Dave says:
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      You are so wise and right to overrule the finding of a duly elected/appointed judge? Sounds like a typical radical left move usurping power much like the Communists around the planet have done and the killing of their poltical opponents as you have called for the killing of George Bush. I don’t like your vision of the world Libby.

      • July 22, 2013 at 2:24 pm
        Libby says:
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        • July 22, 2013 at 2:41 pm
          Sharon says:
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          If a person owns their own business, they should be able to decide on the benefits they offer their employees. If the employees don’t like the benefits, they can get another job!

          • July 22, 2013 at 3:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            That’s not what the law says, Sharon. Why should Hobby Lobby be able to thumb their nose at the law and nobody else?

          • July 23, 2013 at 11:23 am
            Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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            Then, by your logic Sharon, if a person owns their own business, they should be able to decide if they want to pay their employees $0.50 per hour. Why should that Big Governement be able to tell them that they have to at least pey minimum wage, right?

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            bob says:
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            I feel the need to point this out again:

            Businesses are thumbing their nose at the law because the law thumbs it’s nose at business, while disregarding public opinion, costs of birth control, etc.

            The only reason the law was passed to make businesses include it is because the majority of population does not favor publicly funded birth control.

            Changing the game to make it against businesses is not honest. That is thumbing ones nose at another.

            Moving on to costs: Birth control is $15 per month for the average person. Putting it on insurance plans does raise the cost, is not efficient, and the people need to pay for it themselves. It is fair. For more invasive birth control, adding it to insurance makes sense.

            The invasive birth control is the extreme minority. We can not pass laws that you scream about Libby, and ruin efficiency to target people who require invasive birth control. Besides which, insurance, if it covered invasive birth control would barely be affected by the cost. Which again: Should be paid for by the insured.

            The dishonesty hear is not with Hobby Lobby. It is how this law was shaped, how it was sold, what it does, and it’s efficiency.

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:41 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob: What you say is simply not true. Including birth control actually lowers the cost of insurance and is much more business-friendly than not. The employer avoids much missed time from work and the expense of pre-natal, post-natal, and pediatric care. It only makes sense.

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:51 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            You are arguing the affect of using birth control, not the cost affect on birth control by including it on plans. Those are inherently different arguments. Your reply was not well thought out, and again, shows how manipulated you are by the left.

            You’ll note that I stated that invasive birth control does lower costs of invasive birth control on an insurance plan. Premiums are collected, built, then paid out. For the pill, and $15 dollar low cost constant use items, including it on health insurance does increase the cost. Insurance 101 I should not have to explain this to you.

            Now moving on: Now that you did argue the affect of the pill on unwanted pregnancies and time off of work, I can establish at long last, that when you lied in the past stating the primary purpose of the bill was to cover invasive birth control, that your big beef was in fact getting free birth control pills at the expense of efficiency. You will essentially double the cost of the pill and pass on the cost. Birth control pills are affordable, and should not be included on insurance plans. Ever.

          • July 24, 2013 at 3:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            Because of the effect, the premiums are lower. My argument is very well thought-out and valid. Do some research on it.

            Contrary to Sarge’s insults that I sit in the lobby and answer phones, I aced Insurance 101 about 33 years ago. Now I teach it, INS, AIC, CISR, and CIC.

        • July 22, 2013 at 5:17 pm
          Mike says:
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          Anyone who “wouldn’t have been upset” over the murder of anyone much less the President, has no morals or standing to comment or be taken serious about anything of import.

          Apparently murder is a law she wishes not to abide by, yet questions laws and decisions that are in place. With no concern over human life commenting on anything shows continued ignorance..

          • July 23, 2013 at 8:33 am
            Libby says:
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            For your information, Mike, the context of my statement involved treason and the punishment for it which is death.

            Commenting on something you know nothing about only shows your ignorance.

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:29 pm
            bob says:
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            On what grounds was Bush comitting treason?

            You are absolutely insane.

            You’re wrong about Iraq. Get over it. You don’t see the whack jobs on the right commenting about Obama’s actions in Libya by passing the congress.

            Iraq was a threat. Acknowledge it. Then grow up. Clinton bombed them. Clinton talked about their usage of weapons of mass destruction.

            Osama was in Iraq at the time Bush W Invaded. This is also a fact you didn’t know. You said nothing related Saddam to Iraq. You neglected to note they had worked together in the past, and that Osama was in the country at the time. We had no direct ties. But when a guy says you can’t inspect my country, while we have sanctions that allow us to do so, and while a terrorist is there, it means the connection is 99% likely.

            Now get off this topic. You are poorly educated in it.

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:30 pm
            bob says:
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            should read “you said nothing related Saddam to Al Quieda”

          • July 24, 2013 at 4:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’d love to get off it, Bob, but Dave keeps bringing it up.

          • July 24, 2013 at 5:28 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, I am sure glad I am exempted from CE now or I might have to sit in one of your classes and get nauseated by your drivel. While you were at it, you should have taken Econ 101 since you admitted Economics was not your strong suit. Maybe you could take a course at your local JC and learn about the merits of free enterprise as opposed to Progressive Socialism.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:31 pm
            Libby says:
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            Actually, Agent, I get rave reviews about my training. I am funny and have all kinds of real life experiences to help relate the content. Who knows, if you’re a CIC, you may have already attended one of my sessions and probably liked it.

        • July 23, 2013 at 9:33 am
          perplexed says:
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          Libby’s true character (lack thereof) revealed…if President Bush had been murdered she wouldn’t have been upset. What a lack of character. Supports the likes of Obama and wished Bush dead. astounding.

          • July 23, 2013 at 9:45 am
            Libby says:
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            Saying I wouldn’t be upset and wishing him dead are two different things, dummy. I said I thought him guilty of treason over the Iraq war and the sentence (not MY sentence, the sentence in the U.S. of America) is execution.

            Tell me you’d be all broken up over the death of Obama. I dare you to out and out lie to my face. Hypocrites.

          • July 26, 2013 at 3:19 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes Libby, I am sure you have all kinds of real life experiences to share. I have attended CIC parts on Agency Management and believe it or not Life, Accident and Health. I thought the courses were ok, but a bit jammed on info for a few days. I went on to other education courses. I know some CPCU’s, the doctorate of Insurance. One is a friend and he says it stands for Can’t Produce, Can’t Underwrite. Most of those guys are eggheads and may know technical coverage, but don’t know how to sell to the public.

          • July 26, 2013 at 3:31 pm
            Libby says:
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            CPCU has always been can’t produce, can’t underwrite. That’s why I prefer CIC. I got the most practical knowledge and useful information out of CIC and CRM. I took AIC and ARM, too, but they are pretty long and drawn out for me. I prefer to cram and then get back to the office and put it work. I, too, know what it’s like to have to sell. But at this point in my life and since I just relocated, I’m not in a sales role now. Kind of like not having the pressure. Don’t think I’d do too well here. It’s pretty rural and I don’t have any connections.

          • July 26, 2013 at 3:39 pm
            Ron says:
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            I may be risking a lot here, but I am a CPCU. I do agree with can’t produce part. They do not have a course on selling. It is designed for those who want to gain a better understanding of the insurance indusrty from a more global perspective. I learned a lot about the legal, claims, accounting, financial, and regulations of insurance during my studies.

            I currently work for a broker and I have found in my experience that most, not all, agents are more sales people than insurance people. I have spoke to many agents about forms and coverages and it was like speaking to an insured.

          • July 26, 2013 at 4:11 pm
            Libby says:
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            Ron: It takes a special kind of person to be both technically savvy and sales-oriented. This is why many producers are “sales” people and the inside people are “service” people. If you are fortunate enough to be able to put the two things together, the sky is the limit for you.

      • July 22, 2013 at 2:46 pm
        jw says:
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        What did Libby say that has you all in a dither, Dave? She disagrees with the judge’s ruling. So do I. Hobby Lobby is no more a christian organization than Walmart.

        • July 22, 2013 at 3:25 pm
          Libby says:
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          Dave has a personal vedetta against me, jw. He’ll disagree if I say the sky is blue. And then he’ll bring up George Bush. He’s very predictable. But misguided.

        • July 22, 2013 at 6:42 pm
          Dave says:
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          • July 23, 2013 at 8:35 am
            Libby says:
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            You want to overturn a LAW signed by the President of the United States. What does that make you?

          • July 23, 2013 at 10:17 am
            FFA says:
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            Whats that make Dave???? A Smart Business man that can see this is bad.

          • July 23, 2013 at 10:38 am
            Always Amazed says:
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            I think that would make Dave smart.

          • July 23, 2013 at 12:39 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, and I’m a dumbass because I disagree with a judge’s ruling. You guys are the biggest hypocrites EVER.

          • July 23, 2013 at 4:05 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            Libbs – don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t hate Muslims nor any one else, not even you. I just see a coflict of interest and I’m sure others would agree. Who said I was Catholic? I’ve just grown tired of you bleading heart liberals that think evryone is wrong except them. Christians are having their liberties taken away and it’s just all fine and dandy. Hobby Lobby steps up to the plate for their beliefs and you all get your feathers ruffled. You are the one who has hate in their heart; not I. As I said – stop putting words in my mouth.

          • July 23, 2013 at 4:29 pm
            Libby says:
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            I did not assume you were Catholic. It was used as an example. What rights have they gotten taken away? Are they still not free to practice their religion?

            I disagree with the HL ruling not because of hate in my heart. I disagree because the law states it applies to ALL for-profit business, but not religious organizations. I do not believe HL qualifies as a religious organization and therefore should not be exempt from the law. Simple as that.

            As far as Muslims in the military, there are plenty of Muslims that do not believe in the teachings of the fanatical terrorists. Because one Muslim went wacko in Ft. Hood does not make all Muslims terrorists.

            So don’t put words in my mouth either, sister.

          • July 24, 2013 at 8:09 am
            Dave says:
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          • July 24, 2013 at 1:32 pm
            bob says:
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          • July 24, 2013 at 1:43 pm
            Libby says:
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            “And you want to overturn many republican laws, and insult them as well.”

            Which laws are those, Bob??

            Are you stalking me? Why do you not reply to anyone but me on here. I’m not the only one taking this position.

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:46 pm
            bob says:
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          • July 24, 2013 at 2:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            WHICH Bush W. laws??? I never said anything about repealing Bush W. laws.

    • July 22, 2013 at 3:25 pm
      Libby says:
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      Sarge, you’re at it again. Censoring is unAmerican.

      • July 23, 2013 at 10:02 am
        Jon says:
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        Well, apparently Sarge isn’t all that American.

        I mean, American means 1 vote, right? ;)

        Unless he’s from Chicago. Then well, all bets are off.

        • July 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          • July 25, 2013 at 10:37 am
            Jon says:
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            So do I, AA.

            IL is a mess, to be sure.

          • July 25, 2013 at 10:45 am
            Jon says:
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            Oh, and people can say whatever they want. BS isn’t restricted to one political party, nor are crazies/idiots.

        • July 24, 2013 at 3:20 pm
          Agent says:
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          Jon, had you been on this blog for a while, you would know that Sargeant is from the Detroit area. Thankfully, he is not from Detroit proper but a suburb. Detroit is the poster child for how not to run a city and is much like a third world city. Progressive spending policies, union infestation, corruption and Democratic leadership for the past 40 years has led to their Chapter 9 demise.

          • July 24, 2013 at 3:25 pm
            Libby says:
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            So that’s where he learned how to cheat the vote! Explains alot. Thanks, Agent.

          • July 26, 2013 at 5:18 pm
            Agent says:
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            Sargeant, did you see the picture on the net of Obama? It said – If Obama had a city, it would be Detroit. What a disaster. It looks like a third world country city. 63% of the population gone, little or no city services and they are asking for a bailout. Will Obama declare them “too big to fail” and pump more borrowed money into them to rescue the public unions and corrupt government? Those city council people should join Kwame in jail.

          • July 26, 2013 at 9:02 pm
            jw says:
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            Agent, I was on Weather.com the other day and they had 30 pictures from Detroit. Wow. These pictures of abandoned buildings are haunting. I was shocked. Shouldn’t have been shocked, but seeing the pictures was so much more than just reading the stories in the news.

      • July 24, 2013 at 11:20 am
        Sargeant Major says:
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        Sorry Libby, I have not been on here all that much as I have to make a living and call on customers. Unlike you who sits at a computer in the lobby and answers the phone. Your employer must really give you a break for wasting company resources.

        I am not censoring you, you are censoring yourself- LOL

        How was the Klan rally last weekend?

        • July 24, 2013 at 12:40 pm
          Libby says:
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          Yeah, right. As soon as you’re on here, all my comments are automatically censored. I see you were busy this morning.

  • July 22, 2013 at 1:49 pm
    Sarah says:
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    Good, Maybe now we can move “Forward” and get rid of the whole pile of crap ACA.

    • July 22, 2013 at 2:25 pm
      Libby says:
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      • July 22, 2013 at 4:08 pm
        Always Amazed says:
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        And time for you to get over it too, Libby. Hobby Lobby won – end of story. Put on your big girl pants and stop your sulking. NO company should be forced to offer birth control, abortion or the day after pill to their employees IF they feel it is against their beliefs. And guess what? Don’t you think the people who work for Hobby Lobby know what the owner’s beliefs are and what their health insurance pays for and what it doesn’t? I’m pretty sure they do BEFORE they get hired. And, even BHO has now changed a few things in his LAW, seems to me that noting about this LAW has been chiseled in stone and any thing can change on the turn of a dime with BHO at the helm of this sinking ship.

        • July 22, 2013 at 4:17 pm
          Libby says:
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          • July 22, 2013 at 4:33 pm
            Always Amazed says:
          • July 22, 2013 at 4:46 pm
            Libby says:
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            This does not change the LAW. Only the regulation that states it must be implemented by 10/1/13. The Employer Mandate is still part of the law. The law gives the administration full authority to change deadlines in the regs.

            Nice try, though.

          • July 23, 2013 at 7:08 am
            jw says:
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            AA someone already pointed out that the actual ACA has a clause allowing changes to dates to be made. If you choose to ignore information provided on this forum, why should we take anything you say seriously? You have proven that you only believe that with which you agree.

          • July 23, 2013 at 10:52 am
            Always Amazed says:
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            Hi JW,

            I understand what Obama has put in his law that allows him to push back the date of implementing the employer part of this monstrosity conveniently right before the midterm elections. No political gain there I might add. I guess what Pelosi said about having to pass it so we can find out what’s in it was hit right on the nail. Obama has his butt covered at every slippery turn.

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:09 pm
            jw says:
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            I don’t see how changing the date will help. If the majority of voters are against Obamacare, delaying the date of implementation won’t change their minds. Will it change your mind?

          • July 23, 2013 at 3:14 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            If there isn’t a reason for stalling the implementation on Obmacare with employers then why do your propose Obama is doing it? My feelings (and I’m not alone) is because this is going to be a total disaster and he doesn’t want to loose any more votes. Isn’t his popularity rating something like 41% these day? I hope to God that people are staring to wake up and see the glorified community planner for what he is – a glorified community planner who never had the experience to be a governor let alone a president but my goodness “We need change!” Well, we sure the Hades got that change now didn’t we. He’s pro Islam and takes prayer out of the military so a soldier cannot share his faith?? It’s become offensive? Offensive too whom? The Muslims who in my opinion shouldn’t be in our military in the first place. You have a terrorist in Jail for the Fort Hood massacres and it’s being not being treated as a terrorist attack. Obama threw Israel under the buss in his first term and is giving billions to the Muslim Brotherhood and none of you have a problem with this? Keep our tax payers money HERE and stop giving it to countries who want to destroy us and take over our country!

            I’m glad Hobby Lobby is standing their ground! Perhaps more companies who have the same beliefs will follow their path and fight the fight. If someone wants the government to pay for their birth control and abortions then find a company who meets the criteria that their looking for and work for them.

          • July 23, 2013 at 3:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            Show me one credible source that confirms Obama has taken prayer out of the military. He has done no such thing. They are allowed to pray all they want, and especially on the battlefield.

            And you don’t think Muslims should be in our military? What if I think Catholics shouldn’t be in Congress? Freedom of religion is one of the cornerstones of this great nation and you just spit in the face of it.

            Take your hate mongering somewhere else. There is no room for it here.

    • July 25, 2013 at 10:32 am
      Agent says:
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      Yes, Sarah. The Administration is getting more desperate by the day. They will be spending $700 Million of our tax dollars on an ad campaign trying to re-sell this piece of crap once again. I think they are worried that they won’t get several million young people to sign up to fund it. Also, there is a lot of evidence that the exchanges are in big trouble with numerous states not setting them up and don’t have the facilities to do it. A new poll shows that 54% are now against and 30% are for it with the rest undecided. Libby and Ron are in the 30% for category and continue to think it is a good idea.

      • July 25, 2013 at 10:54 am
        Libby says:
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        Agent – please don’t speak for me. I have said, on numerous occasions, that I think universal healthcare is a good idea; not necessarily Obamacare. But it’s all we’ve got, so we have to do what we can to make sure it works. I would expect Congress to be working together to do that, but they aren’t. And the American people are sick and tired of it. They aren’t any happier with the Reps than they are the Dems.

      • July 25, 2013 at 11:31 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        Please quote me where I EVER said I think the ACA is a good idea.

  • July 22, 2013 at 1:57 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Hobby Lobby is privately owned. That means David Green owns the company. What has he done? He put up his OWN MONEY in 1972 and has created 550 stores in 45 states and over 13000 jobs.

    He should be able to run the company as he sees fit and offer or not offer what he wants to. If employees don’t like it they have the right to find a job that offers the benefits that they want and leave Hobby Lobby.

    • July 22, 2013 at 2:02 pm
      perplexed says:
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      Very well said Sargeant Major!

    • July 22, 2013 at 2:10 pm
      Lisa says:
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      Very well said.

    • July 22, 2013 at 2:20 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, why haven’t we seen some of the 13,000 employees picketing in front of Hobby Lobby or Mardel’s fighting for their “rights”? I kind of think they like their employer and good jobs and benefits.

    • July 23, 2013 at 11:18 am
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, did you notice in the House that 22 Democrats have joined the Republicans and now voted to delay the Individual Mandate. Do you think they are concerned about the mid terms? How many do you think will run on the merits of Obamacare in their campaign? We don’t have a reading on the Senate since Reid won’t let them vote or debate anything over there, but I see indications that the Senate may very well change hands since 21 Democrat seats are up for grabs and some like Baucus are retiring. If we get Reid out of the leadership there and Boehner out as Speaker of the House, maybe something positive will result.

      • July 23, 2013 at 2:26 pm
        jw says:
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        I’m going to throw this out there: a recent United Technologies/National Journal Congressional Connection Poll indicates only 36% of respondents want to repeal the ACA. However, the poll also shows that over 50% think the implementation will be chaos. http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection

        These results seem contradictory to me. Which probably means predicting voting from this information won’t work. Delaying the employer mandate won’t change my vote, but based on the goofy things these 1,000 people said, it could change votes. How sad that voters are so easily manipulated.

        BTW – I don’t know anything about the national journal or united technologies.

        • July 23, 2013 at 2:37 pm
          Libby says:
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          “But opposition to the outright repeal also complicates efforts for Republicans, who thus far have failed to articulate what should replace Obamacare.”

          This is the Reps biggest problem and they don’t seem to get it. Instead of wasting time and money trying to repeal the ACA 37 times, why haven’t they come up with an alternative that would be better? I’d be all for that. But they haven’t, which makes me think they can’t or won’t. And it’s apparant the American people WANT that. They continue to shoot themselves in the foot and then cry out that Dems are just buying the vote with handouts. Pathetic.

        • July 23, 2013 at 3:51 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          jw, how sad that voters were so easily manipulated in 2008 and 2012. They voted for a slogan full of promises that haven’t been kept by a slick talker who they made a rock star. I saw a poll the other day that 40% of citizens still don’t know that Healthcare was passed. Do you think these may be the low information voters that would vote for a slogan? Do you think they can handle that 10 page app? These young people out there are not going to flock to the Exchanges to buy a Medicaid style policy and will wait until they get sick to buy since they know they won’t be turned down. So what if they have to pay an additional tax. These are not the rocket scientists in our society.

          • July 23, 2013 at 4:00 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I wasn’t manipulated in 2008 or 2012 any more than you were in 2000 and 2004.

          • July 24, 2013 at 1:44 pm
            bob says:
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    • July 23, 2013 at 5:30 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Dear Mr. Sargeant Major:

      If Mr. Green owns a company in the United States he has given complicit consent to operating under the laws and regulations that govern it. It was because of the infrastructure of the U.S. that Mr. Green benefitted. Mr. Green did not create this infrastructure but he is bound to contribute his part to its maintenance. He does not get to pick and choose only those parts he likes or with which he agrees.

      Mr. Green will not prevail.

      • July 24, 2013 at 11:09 am
        Alwasy Amazed says:
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  • July 22, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    Original Bob says:
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    Mandatory health insurance should be for things that are essential to restoring good health or treatment of chronic disabling conditions that would be cost prohibitive for any single individual or family. Why is the government in the business of determining coverage requirements for things other than those required for treatment of illnesses and injuries? Good for Hobby Lobby, I’ll keep shopping there.

    • July 22, 2013 at 3:42 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Having a baby at age 22 would have been cost prohibitive for my family at the time. That is why I decided to take birth contol. And I did have to pay for it out of my own pocket, because back in those days employers, across the board, did not offer it in health insurance plans. They have since come to understand that it is cheaper to include it.

      Had I had that baby at 22, not only would I have been ill-equipped financially and emotionally to raise it, it would have cost my employer thousands of dollars in medical expense. Not to mention my time away from work having the baby and all those times I would have had to leave early or stay home to care for it.

      Use your heads people. If you are so “pro-business” you would see that it is in an employers best interest to include this. You are just anti-Obama so you fight everything he tries to do. Either that or you are a religious zealot that has no perspective on the issue.

    • July 29, 2013 at 2:00 pm
      insurance is fun! says:
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      Bob: you are priceless! The Republican Alternative to Healthcare.

      I am still laughing.

  • July 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    Jon says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Chalk another win for the rights of “Corporate Personhood” over actual living beings.

    I’m not a diehard leftie, but this was not a good ruling.

    • July 22, 2013 at 2:40 pm
      Say What?? says:
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      • July 22, 2013 at 3:11 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        “Eliminate actual beings??” No. PREVENT actual beings until you are ready to provide food, shelter, education, and guidance is more like it. You sound like one of those people that is all for everyone having their baby and then complain when they aren’t being taken care of. That’s crueler than just waiting and having them when the time is right. Or not at all, which is my right as a woman. Pro-life at all costs is a mental disorder.

        • July 22, 2013 at 3:40 pm
          Perplexed says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Libby, there are ways to PREVENT getting pregnant. If a woman can’t afford to pay for birth control pills and their employer doesn’t want to provide the coverage then they just need to abstain.

          • July 22, 2013 at 3:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’m sure my husband would have loved that. You are obviously not married.

          • July 22, 2013 at 3:45 pm
            Jon says:
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            So a rape victim should abstain from getting raped?

            Because that scenario occurs. A lot. And the “morning after” pill (the subject of HL’s objection) is mostly used to prevent rape victims from an unwanted pregnancy.

            Most women prefer to use regular birth control–which is normally covered under a medical plan. (At least my wife’s was.)

          • July 22, 2013 at 3:45 pm
            suttonmom says:
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            That is a practical and very realistic solution…NOT

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:30 pm
            Always Amazed says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            How about OTC? My parents generation even had that choice.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:32 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            What is OTC? And don’t say the rythm method. That is not reliable at all.

          • July 23, 2013 at 10:19 am
            FFA says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Libby – OTC Over the Counter. No need for RX.

        • July 22, 2013 at 4:19 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          • July 22, 2013 at 4:24 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Says you, Always. Not me.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:40 pm
            Nebraskan says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            And not one single person on this thread that claims to be a Republican is Pro-LIFE. You are pro-BIRTH. Because in the same breath that you use to say Life Begins at Conception, you continue on to bad mouth Wel-Fare and food programs for women and children.

            Not very Christian of you. Not very Christian.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:42 pm
            Always Amazed says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Does the word prophylactics ring any bells miss-know-it all? They were around before we both were born.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:43 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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          • July 22, 2013 at 4:51 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Yes, I’ve heard of them and why is that any different than using any other form of birth control??? Are you against birth control or not???

            And if you think life begins at inception, try a c-section on 10 week-old fetus and see if it can survive. A “fetus” (that’s why they don’t call it a baby) is not viable until after at least 24 weeks. If it’s not viable, it is a fetus and not a baby.

          • July 22, 2013 at 7:37 pm
            FFA says:
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            Neb, seem to remember everyone stating somewhere along the many arguments over this forum that everyone did agree that helping people is one thing. JW needed help, she pulled herself out of her situation and got off welfare – Correct JW???

            Its the bums that keep taking and taking and then when they get cut off they bitches about the hand outs being gone.
            That’s what Agent, Sarge & me complain about. Not the people down on their luck that need a hand.

          • July 23, 2013 at 7:18 am
            jw says:
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            Yes, I was the one who did use medicaid, food stamps and WIC and I can’t even remember what else when my children were very young. I finished college, got a job and got off welfare.

            I also don’t like it that people abuse these services by never getting a job and becoming a contributing member of society.

          • July 23, 2013 at 9:31 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            I would wager that nearly everyone who is not abusing the system, which is probably over 95% of the population, agrees with you regardless of ideology or party affiliation. The issue comes with how to monitor and determine who is down on their luck and who are the bums. Whoever can figure that out without additional government bureacracy gets my vote.
            If you just cut funding, we will see less success stories like jw.

          • July 23, 2013 at 10:22 am
            FFA says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Ron, It seems to me that people forget I – and all others are against the abusers.

            How to fight the fraud? In the words of the BOSS (Bruce Springstein) “Boss man says I got to pee in a cup” before you get your freebie.

          • July 23, 2013 at 11:22 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            Do you not consider “peeing in a cup” additional government bureacracy? Sounds like you want to spend more taxpayer money.

            Some questions that need to be answered:
            How often do we test?
            What about false positives?
            How do we handle appeals?
            What kind of settlement might be involved if found to be clean after the appeal?
            How many more governemnt employees who are sufficiently qualified will be required to oversee the program?
            How much is all of this going to cost vs save?

            Please consider all consequences before spending more of my money.

          • July 23, 2013 at 1:22 pm
            Celtica says:
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            Nebraskan says: Bot one single person on this thread that claims to be a Republican is Pro-LIFE. You are pro-BIRTH. Because in the same breath that you use to say Life Begins at Conception, you continue on to bad mouth Wel-Fare and food programs for women and children. Not very Christian of you. Not very Christian.>>>

            Nebraska, there are Christians and then there are selective Christians.

          • July 24, 2013 at 6:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron, just my thoughts

            Some questions that need to be answered:
            How often do we test?

            Upon Enrollment and with Cause. Same as any employer.
            What about false positives?
            retest.
            How do we handle appeals?
            A jury of their peers.

            What kind of settlement might be involved if found to be clean after the appeal?
            cant sue the Govt.
            How many more governemnt employees who are sufficiently qualified will be required to oversee the program?
            One of my comp carriers provided pee cups. No Cost to my clients.
            How much is all of this going to cost vs save?
            I know of at least half a dozen people riding the system that cant pass a pee test. I my neighborhood alone – A Whole Bunch. They don’t try and get a job cause they cant pass the test. Saving should multiply out as there would be less addicts. that shit hole of an apartment complex on the other side of town. Wow Ron – the dirt bags in there alone we are talking thousands weekly. –

            That’s just off the top of my head – less then one minute to get the answers.

            Just my thoughts. Agree or disagree. My opinion that I have a right to.

        • July 22, 2013 at 4:23 pm
          Say What?? says:
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          • July 22, 2013 at 4:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            I DO have the right, Say What. And I will fight tooth and nail to make sure narrow-minded evangelists don’t take it away from me or any other woman, too.

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:21 pm
            BS says:
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            If a woman gets pregnant, and her husband wants the baby, but she doesn’t; it’s an awful situation, but she gets the final say. Ultimately, it’s her body, and she has the right to determine what will happen with it.

      • July 22, 2013 at 3:13 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Say What, you are right. If the Libs want to practice birth control, that is their right, but not at the expense of the employer who will be paying the premium. Employers should have the right to pick the benefits they offer, not have the government dictate what is offered. I also have a problem with abortion after 20 weeks. That fetus is a baby and can feel pain. If it goes that far, put it out for adoption after birth. There are plenty of childless couples out there who want to adopt.

        • July 22, 2013 at 3:29 pm
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Agent – I’ve shown you statistic after statistic that says it’s cheaper to include birth control in your health plan (for obvious reasons) but you continue to try to use that as a pathetic excuse for not providing it. I understand and respect an argument that says “If I own a business, I should be able to provide the coverage I want.” Your arguement is just plain wrong.

          I wouldn’t have had a problem if the ACA said the exchange had to include it, but employers didn’t. Then the employee could go to the exchange if they wanted it covered. Unfortunately, that’s not what the law says.

          Why, as a tax-paying American, are you in favor of allowing Hobby Lobby to flaunt the law?

        • July 22, 2013 at 3:33 pm
          Jon says:
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          A fetus is not viable at 20 weeks. That’s why Roe v. Wade sets a specific time limit.

          That being said–I agree–20 weeks *should* be too late to abort a child. If you plan to abort–that decision should’ve been reached long before then.

          However, there are states with laws on the books making it illegal to abort after 6 weeks. 6. Weeks.

          I know several women who didn’t even *know* they were pregnant until after that.

          The laws are getting crazier by the day. Particularly in the “bible belt.” (OK, AR, MO, KS, etc.)

          Of course, all this has exactly nothing to do with the topic at hand. Which is prevention, not abortion.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:01 pm
            Agent says:
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            In Texas, we just passed a law that bans abortions after 20 weeks and also regulates the abortion clinics to make sure they have proper medical facilities and training in case something goes wrong. The blue states fanatics sent a bunch of their true believers down here to try to stop it, but without success. It is expected that several of these so called “clinics” will go out of business because they don’t meet basic health requirements and don’t have the proper training or staff.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            It can be medically harmful to the mother if you try to abort after 20 weeks, so that should be the law.

            If there are clinics in TX that do not meet health safety requirements they should be shut down.

            I don’t have a problem with either of those two things and I’m ultra-Libby.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:57 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Jon, Are you an Obstetrician? Those that are say a 5 month old fetus is viable and many have been born and survived. They are small, but with proper medical care do make it and grow up. That abortionist doctor was convicted of many late term abortions when he would just kill the baby after it was born. That is murder, pure and simple and I hope he doesn’t see the light of day again. I also hope he is put in with Tyrone and he will learn the new meaning of being a “Kid”.

          • July 22, 2013 at 6:20 pm
            Agent says:
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            Good comment Libby on the 20 week viability and regulating the abortion clinics. You should educate Jon now since he doesn’t think a 5 month old fetus is viable.

          • July 23, 2013 at 9:26 am
            Nebraskan says:
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            Agent, the blue state hippy libbers weren’t able to stop it because your pathetic Governor cheated and lied until he could get it passed. He should be in jail for what he did. (I’m not mad it passed, by the way, it’s not the law I’m offended with, it’s the LYING and CHEATING that went on to get it passed.)

          • July 23, 2013 at 10:11 am
            Jon says:
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            No Agent, I’m not an OB. I just actually read and research, and my wife works for one of the best Children’s Hospitals in the nation.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

            20 weeks–the chance of a fetus surviving on its own? 0%.

            24 weeks only gives a fetus a 50% chance to survive on its own.

            I’ve had multiple friends who had to give emergency birth at 20 weeks due to medical issues with the mother.

            Not one child lived more than 20 minutes.

            We’ve lost a child ourselves, and went through the education about fetal viability.

            Now kindly stick it where the sun doesn’t shine, moron.

          • July 23, 2013 at 12:54 pm
            Always Amazed says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            A fetus is a BABY, Libby and also a human being that might not be able to live outside of its mother womb but it is a human precious life all the same and can feel pain for goodness sakes. I’m sure your mother didn’t think you were just a blob of tissue when she carried you for 9 months. You’re vile comment about have a c-section before full term just displays how cruel and insensitive you are.

          • July 23, 2013 at 1:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            There was nothing vile about my comment. I do not think a fetus is NOT a baby and the Supreme Court agrees with me. You are welcome to think whatever you want. That’s the beauty of America. I do not need to be subjected to your moral disdain and I do not ridicule you for your beliefs. Believe what you want. Just leave me alone. You are not a nice person.

          • July 23, 2013 at 1:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            That’s I do not think a fetus IS a baby.

          • July 23, 2013 at 1:11 pm
            Libby says:
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            You purport to be Christian. Jesus would not approve of your judgemental attitude and your condemnation of me. Not a great display of Christian behavior, but then again, you rarely do.

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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          • July 23, 2013 at 3:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            I guess you’ll find out.

        • July 22, 2013 at 3:42 pm
          Jon says:
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          So, to touch on the original topic–employer chosen benefits:

          Should the employer be able to choose to not cover:

          1) Insulin? (bye bye diabetics)
          2) Asthma inalers? (who needs those wheezers anyways?)
          3) Cancer treatments? (isn’t it a foregone conclusion?)
          4) Psych meds? (psychotics are more fun anyways–and why should people be able to focus?)

          Once you start being able to exclude one thing, it’s much easier to start excluding others.

          • July 22, 2013 at 3:48 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            It’s all fine and dandy until you are the one that needs the treatment they don’t want to include. Then it’s all “That’s not fair! Blubber, blubber.”

          • July 22, 2013 at 3:57 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            So Jon, did you know that “Breast Pumps” are covered under Obamacare? I saw that on my Blue Cross info recently. Hmm! That is strange since the Libs want Birth Control and Abortion at all costs. For the women who chose not to abort, they can get these pumps on the plan so they can store the milk for later. What a deal!

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:21 pm
            Jon says:
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            So Agent,

            What does that have to do with the price of copper in China?

            If you’re scratching your head, it’s because neither are germaine to the topic at hand…

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:23 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Breast pumps are used by mothers that can not provide enough milk at one time to feed their babies. Would you rather have the baby go hungry and starve, Agent?

            You are so ignorant when it comes to what liberals want. Liberals want pro-CHOICE. That means if you choose to have a baby, that baby and you should receive the best medical care available. If you choose not to have a baby, you should not be forced into it.

            Do you understand the difference?

          • July 22, 2013 at 7:40 pm
            FFA says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            YES. They write the check. Include every possible thing under the sun and the employer cat afford it so everyone in the ranks suffers.

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:14 pm
            Always Amazed says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I’m not going to waste my breath on you Libby.

            The Lord called Jeremiah when he was a young man (Jeremiah 1:5, 6) and said to him, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. Before you were born I consecrated you and appointed you a prophet to the nations.” God knew Jeremiah even before his body was formed in his mother’s womb. There is a lot of dispute nowadays about whether an embryo is a human being or not. Here is a verse that should clear that doubt forever – because God says He knew Jeremiah before he was formed. When Jeremiah was a microscopic speck in his mother’s womb, God knew him and consecrated him to be a prophet. That is a great encouragement for us – to know that God had His eye on us even when we were just microscopic specks just conceived in our mother’s wombs. He has a plan for our lives just as He had a plan for Jeremiah.

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:29 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Look! I can cut and paste, too!

            In terms of human development an embryo is not a fetus, like a fetus is not a baby, like a baby is not a toddler, like a toddler is not a young adult… etc. Basically if you find the definition of Embryo it is: a developing human from conception to 8 weeks. The definition of Fetus is: a developing human from 8 weeks to birth. Then you enter the neonate, infant, toddler, play age…etc.etc. stages. Those are the Stages Of Human Development. So… when Pro-choice advocates say, “it’s not a baby!” They actually are correct.

            I’ve already told you to quit wasting your breath. You keep coming at me, so I will keep presenting my position. I do not say yours is wrong, just that it is not mine. Why can’t you do the same?

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            If I am wrong, that will be between me and my God. Not you Amazed. You are very presumptuous to judge me here on earth. Arrogant and presumptuous.

          • July 24, 2013 at 10:47 am
            Alwasy Amazed says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            All these are medications are used to treat life threatening illnesses. And what life threatening illness do birth control pills treat? Humm?

          • July 24, 2013 at 11:17 am
            Alwasy Amazed says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            All of the MEDICATIONS are used to treat life threatening illnesses or diseases. What life threatening illness does birth control pills treat? And yes, I believe we the tax payers should not be paying for Viagra either – what life threatening illness or disease does that treat?

          • July 24, 2013 at 3:12 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Jon, do you want the coverage to include elective surgery like tummy tucks, face lifts, Botox treatments like Nancy Pelosi gets once a month? Might as well since they throw the rest of the kitchen sink into this nightmare.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:06 pm
            Nebraskan says:
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            Studpidity does not even begin to describe “Agent” for bringing breast pumps into an argument on birth control. Apples to oranges! But using your logic, why oh why do insurance companies cover Viagra and Birth Control? (See how dumb that sounds????)

            Agent, FFA, and Bob, I am scared, scared, SCARED for the future of women with men like you. I genuinely worry for my daughter, her life, and her safety.

        • July 23, 2013 at 5:15 pm
          Celtica says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Agent: what if the employer did not want to cover surgery for whatever disease. Do they have a right to withhold that too?

          • July 24, 2013 at 11:18 am
            Alwasy Amazed says:
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          • July 24, 2013 at 11:58 am
            Always Amazed says:
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            Now you’re just being silly. We’re talking birth control pills & abortions. Not a medical proceedure that your insuance provider has to approve – NOT your employer.

          • July 24, 2013 at 6:51 pm
            FFA says:
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            AA – Your in Chicago. Only 20 more posts till any one takes note.

          • July 24, 2013 at 7:20 pm
            jw says:
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            Wow, this post exploded while I was out. So, FFA, what’s the deal with 20 posts to be noticed? Were you teasing? That’s funny!

          • July 25, 2013 at 10:46 am
            FFA says:
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            Should have said votes. Its the Chicago way. I am assuming the thumbs up on my proposals are coming from the Commercial end of the biz. The carriers make that system work and turn a profit. Only reason that the Govt cant do it effectively is because they are the govt and they do nothing effectively.

      • July 22, 2013 at 3:22 pm
        Jon says:
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        And the mentally deficient ultra-righties begin to rear their heads again.

        Never claimed to be a leftie, did I? In fact, I’m a moderate. Something that people think should no longer exist in the current political climate. But there you go.

        And you’re changing the subject to suit your moral “high ground.”

        But here’s the deal sparky–it’s not “right to life” as you numbnuts so like to claim.

        You know why? Because all you want is the birth to occur.

        You don’t care about feeding the (likely) unwanted child.
        You don’t care about educating the (potentially) unwanted child.
        You don’t care about providing medical care for the (maybe?) unwanted child.

        You just want it to exist.

        That’s not right to life. That’s right to birth. Different story. And something showing a distinct moral laxity in those who continue to want a child born, but don’t want to do anything about making sure that child has a chance in hell of thriving and succeeding in life.

        • July 22, 2013 at 4:37 pm
          perplexed says:
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          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • July 22, 2013 at 4:56 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            I do not argue against abortion, perplexed. No wonder you are constantly perplexed…

            And I have no reasons, let alone all kinds, to argue why children conceived by rape should be aborted. Only that the mother should have that choice. I do not tell her what choice to make, unlike you. So who here is more for freedom and individual responsibility?

            And if I use birth control, I do not have to worry about “consequences” now do I? Is that what you call a baby? A consequence of satisfying your flesh? You are the sad one here.

          • July 23, 2013 at 7:33 am
            jw says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Seriously perplexed? We are not saying you HAVE to get an abortion if you were raped. We just want the option for abortion to remain. I’m pro choice – I chose to give birth and keep my kids. My choice.

            As for the rest of your rant, Jon was only pointing out that conservatives don’t wish to provide for the child once it is born. I will respect your opinion when you foster or adopt a child that was unwanted. I did.

          • July 23, 2013 at 5:19 pm
            Celtica says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Dear Perplexed — you seriously think abortion is a consequence of the woman’s desire to satisfy lust and lust alone? Speaking of shallow, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what role a male plays in all of this? I bet you’re giving them a pass because “boys will be boys.”

        • July 22, 2013 at 5:20 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Libby, I brought up the Breast Pump coverage since it points out all the freebies with Obamacare which go on and on. You brought up – would you rather the baby starve? Guess what Libby, if the mother cannot provide the milk as in many cases, that is when baby formula comes to the rescue. I just object to everything including the kitchen sink being provided by a healthcare policy under this monstrous legislation. You want birth control pills, morning after, abortions no matter when and breast pumps on the unaborted babies. This takes more money than this country has and no wonder we have the deficits we do.

        • July 25, 2013 at 10:44 am
          Agent says:
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          Jon, you are further left than any moderate I have ever heard on this blog. In fact, you may be further left than Libby or Celtica and that is very hard to do.

          • July 25, 2013 at 10:51 am
            Jon says:
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            How so?

            You take cheap shots left and right, but do not give any evidence to support your allegations.

          • July 25, 2013 at 11:07 am
            Ron says:
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            Jon,

            That is Agent’s style. All rhetoric with little to no substance and NEVER any evidence, when asked, to support his assertions about other posters with whom he disagrees.

          • July 25, 2013 at 11:20 am
            Libby says:
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            Feel sorry for Agent. He is so stubbornly stuck in his rut and is unable to have a reasonable discussion if you disagree with his view. He’s misguided…

          • July 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm
            FFA says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Now Libby, Agent isn’t the only stubborn one here…..

          • July 25, 2013 at 1:21 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Touche! :-)

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:03 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I am not a Liberal, Progressive or Socialist. If I was would I be for welfare reform, requiring those on welfare to work, tax cuts for businesses that hire returning military, long-term unemployed, and bring jobs back to America?

            That is just another typical response from you, deflect the actual topic of the conversation which is you labeling people without any evidence, and going on some unrelated, meaningless rant.

            Get a clue or go away!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:08 pm
            Libby says:
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            Ben Carson? Do you think we give a fig what he thinks? He a creationist, bigoted moron. The kind of person you and Sarge would idolize. Pathetic in this day and age.

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:49 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Wait! I’m for all those things, too, and I’m ultra-Libby.

            See, Agent, I am fiscally conservative but socially liberal. It is possible.

    • July 22, 2013 at 3:18 pm
      Fred says:
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      Speaking of rights…….no one is taking away the individuals right to birth control if thats what they want. The Judge is just stating that they will have to pay for it themselves instead of “forcing” someone else to pay for it. Whatever happened to individual responsibility in this country. Why is it always someone elses job to take care of you and give you everything you want or think you need. Learn to be responsible for yourself and quit demanding handouts from others.

      • July 22, 2013 at 3:35 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Handouts? A comprehensive medical plan, that I actually do pay for, is demanding a handout? Since when? If employers don’t want to “pay” for it, then they can offer 2 plans. One with and one without. The difference between the one with and the one without comes out of the employees pocket. Then they can make an informed choice instead of having their employers religious beliefs forced upon them.

        But, employers will find everyone opts for the plan with, because it will be cheaper than the one without.

        So much for your “handouts.”

        • July 23, 2013 at 2:40 pm
          jw says:
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          I like that idea. Would an insurer actually offer that, though? Based on my non-existant experience contracting health insurance, I would say insurers don’t make it easy to offer different plans for each employer.

          • July 23, 2013 at 2:46 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Well, they could at least find out the difference in price so the employee can make an informed decision. It might surprise the employer, too.

      • July 22, 2013 at 7:47 pm
        FFA says:
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        YEA FRED!!!!!!

        I am Catholic myself. I believe Abortion is wrong. I know I complain about the weight on my shoulders often enough, but I would not blink an eye about taking in another child.

        Abortion??? Ultimately between the person having the abortion and St Pete.

        No need to argue about it with me. You will never change my mind with all your facts, figures and, yes Ron, Metrics.

        • July 23, 2013 at 5:18 pm
          Agent says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Hey FFA, This is a little off topic from all the rants on abortion and birth control, but what do you think of the trade of the Cubs pitcher Matt Garza to the Rangers for a boatload of prospects? I understand the guy has some good stats and was one of the bright spots on the team. The Rangers paid a heavy price for him and it is a good thing they have a deep farm system. They have had pitchers on the DL all season long and it has been killing their chances.

          • July 24, 2013 at 6:54 pm
            FFA says:
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            For the second year in a row, you took our ACE. Top notch. Cubs would be pretty good if not for the pen imploding and a few timly hits.

            whit Sox are closing in on their single season record for errors. GAme last night was a joke.

          • July 24, 2013 at 7:24 pm
            jw says:
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            FFA – who’s managing the White Sox now? Isn’t it that Lou something who was with Cinci?

          • July 25, 2013 at 10:49 am
            Agent says:
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            Yes, FFA. Garza shut down the Yankees last night and only gave up an unearned run. I was impressed by his stuff and willingness to go after hitters. Your former White Sox catcher, Pierzinski hit a home run that won the game. He has been a very good addition. I hope they can sign Garza to a long term deal since his contract is up at the end of the year. They didn’t have much luck hanging onto Cliff Lee last year when he signed with the Phillies. This may be one of those rent a pitcher deals.

          • July 25, 2013 at 10:50 am
            FFA says:
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            robin Ventura is (mis) managing the sox. The sent Ozzie packing two years back. He landed in Miami then went on TV and said how much he loves Castro right in the middle of Little Cuba.
            Dusty was with the Cubs. The situation with Sosa pretty much drove him out of town here. Lost control of the club house. Dusty is now managing Cinn. Pretty competitive too.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:17 pm
            jw says:
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            Yankees are just awful this year. Not surprised the Rangers gave Garza that easy first start for them.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            jw says:
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            The managers are moving around as much as the players.

      • July 23, 2013 at 7:37 am
        jw says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Has anyone checked whether the health department still gives birth control for free? By the way, that’s paid for with your tax dollars. I will say this again: perhaps including birth control in the ACA is Obama’s way of not having the government pay for all the birth control.

        • July 23, 2013 at 10:26 am
          FFA says:
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          My County Does. I have three grand children to prove that its not really Birth Control.

          And, jw, good point.

          • July 23, 2013 at 11:43 am
            jw says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Sorry, FFA, they still have to take it for it to work. I can relate, I have one granddaughter. I lectured my son for days over getting his girlfriend pregnant. It’s not like he didn’t know the down side of parents who are way too young. Thank heavens my granddaughter is a gem. Absolute pistol. I feel sorry for her teachers.

        • July 25, 2013 at 2:22 pm
          Agent says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          FFA, Do you remember the famous incident years ago with Ventura and Nolan Ryan getting into it because Ryan knocked him down with a pitch and he went storming out to the mound? Old Nolan, about 43 at the time got him in a headlock and pounded Ventura pretty good. Ryan stayed in excellent shape until his arm finally gave out at about age 46. I don’t think I would like to be on the receiving end of one of his fastballs then since he was still 94-95 MPH at the time.

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:46 pm
            FFA says:
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            Yes I do. Ryan man handled him like he was a rag doll. Beat the F@#$ out of him.
            Robin aint no slouch either. Big vs Bigger. Bigger won.

        • July 25, 2013 at 2:28 pm
          Agent says:
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          jw, I don’t know if I would call the Yankees awful, but they are not a premier team this year. I hope A-rod has already played his last game for them since he was so guilty in all the PED mess. He was pumping those roids when he was with the Rangers back in 03. What a sorry individual he is! These guys like him and Braun in Milwaukee still think they have to have an edge and think they can get around the test. Sorry fellas, you were caught.

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            Re Braun – did you see the story on aaron Rodgers and him? Rodgers was defending him and bet someone one years salary Braun was clean.

          • July 25, 2013 at 5:15 pm
            Agent says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Rodgers will never play another down of football unless it is on the prison team. I didn’t see that story. I think Braun has messed in his kit. Even if he comes back next year, the fans will be on him unmercifully. He is no better than Arod, the serial lier and user. I think New England will have to try Tebow at tight end. He is certainly big enough with great hands. Perhaps he can learn some plays and make a contribution.

      • July 26, 2013 at 5:08 pm
        Agent says:
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        Yeah Libby, Dr. Carson is really a moron. World famous brain surgeon who has separated many conjoined twins in the most complicated surgeries in medicine. Perhaps he should have operated on yours, Ron’s, Jon’s brain and removed your frontal lobe which has all those wild Progressive ideas ingrained in them.

        • July 26, 2013 at 9:08 pm
          jw says:
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          You probably oughtn’t joke about lobotomies. That really is a bit over the top.

        • July 27, 2013 at 11:13 am
          Ron says:
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          Agent,

          How about listing all of the wild Progressive ideas for which I have advocated.

          Good luck.

        • July 29, 2013 at 9:25 am
          Libby says:
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          Because he is a good surgeon doesn’t not rule out the fact that he’s a moron in his political views. I’m sure you’re a really good insurance agent.

  • July 22, 2013 at 4:10 pm
    Danny says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Jon, your comment about mentally deficient ultra-righties shows your own lack of intelligence. The bottom line is now and always will be life. Your uninformed stance on the “unwanted” babies future only proves your ignorance. Do you have any clue as to how many couples are waiting in live to adopt a child but can’t because so many are aborted. The argument about when life begins has been scientifically proven to be at conception and to head you off at the pass not by ultra-righty scientists. The only scientist’s still advocating otherwise have a political agenda. Do you know how many of the unwanted that were fortunate enough to be pulled out of the trash or given up for adoption have gone on to live great lives. The only thing standing between a person making it out of the womb or being murdered is someone caring enough to give a life a chance or caring more about themselves. The veil of female reproductive choice only covers up a hardness towards innocent life. Our society would punish someone who aborted a litter of puppies but call it choice when it is a human.

    • July 22, 2013 at 4:14 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Please provide sources for your statements:

      “The argument about when life begins has been scientifically proven to be at conception and to head you off at the pass not by ultra-righty scientists.”

      “Do you know how many of the unwanted that were fortunate enough to be pulled out of the trash or given up for adoption have gone on to live great lives.” (No. DO YOU???)

      To be at all credible you must provide factual sources.

    • July 22, 2013 at 4:27 pm
      Always Amazed says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Danny, very well put.

      • July 22, 2013 at 4:33 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Danny, the purveyor of “facts” without facts.

    • July 23, 2013 at 7:40 am
      jw says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      If there are so many couples waiting for children, why are there so many children in the foster care system? Oh, that’s right, those couples only want perfect children that look like them. I adopted my daughter. From the first meeting with a social worker to the day I brought her home was 7.5 months. MONTHS. There are many children available, you just have to be willing to take a chance.

      • July 23, 2013 at 7:44 am
        jw says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Yes that’s 7 and a half months. Also, I met many other people trying to adopt and most of them wanted that perfect infant that they could pass off as their own.

        • July 23, 2013 at 10:27 am
          FFA says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Not for me. I was turned down flat. At 35, my wife and I were too old.

          • July 23, 2013 at 11:48 am
            jw says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            IL must be harsh – foster care and adoptions are state regulated. One of my co-workers is in his late 40′s (wife is early 40′s) and they just (7/19/13) got their first foster child. They hope to adopt through the foster care system. I was 33 and my husband 39 when we adopted our daughter.

          • July 26, 2013 at 4:57 pm
            Agent says:
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            I had a nephew who adopted two Russian kids some years ago. He said it was too onerous and long of a process to adopt American kids. These were not babies either. They were both 3-4 years old at the time. Americans should not have to go to a foreign country to adopt kids when there are so many here to get.

          • July 26, 2013 at 9:12 pm
            jw says:
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            Biological rights are given too much weight in our system. Other countries don’t give your kids back once you give them up or have them taken from you.

            I agree that the US system is not in the best interest of the child. That is one socialist/progressive/liberal idea that I do not support in any way. Kids deserve better.

          • July 26, 2013 at 9:16 pm
            jw says:
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            Agent, I hope your nephew is doing well with his kids. Toddler adoption is not only rare, it is special. My daughter was 3 when we adopted her from Kazakhstan. I can’t imagine my life without her.

    • July 23, 2013 at 10:19 am
      Jon says:
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      Danny,

      Please go back and retake the High School English Comp class you clearly slept through, and learn how to craft a proper response.

      Until then, it’s not even worth time trying to read/parse out what you’re blathering about.

      • July 26, 2013 at 3:08 pm
        Agent says:
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        Jon, the King of Insults. No one can have an opinion different than yours without you insulting their intelligence. You have the typical Progressive smarter than thou attitude. Tell me, if Progressives are so smart, how come they have managed to screw this country up so bad in the past 5 years? Obviously, the plan is not working or people would be working in this country and we would have a true recovery going on in the economy. This Healthcare fiasco would not still have 54% against it and employers might be hiring if they didn’t know what was right down the road.

        • July 26, 2013 at 3:25 pm
          Libby says:
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          You have alot of nerve and no room to talk, Agent. Aren’t you the one always telling me how stupid I am because Economics was not my strong suit. Then when I study up on it, you insult me further.

          When the bottom fell out of this country economists all agreed it was going to take 5-7 years to turn things around. And if you’d look around you’d see that things ARE. Stock market is up, corporate profits are up, housing is up, and people are going back to work. You saying it isn’t so doesn’t change those facts.

          • July 26, 2013 at 5:03 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ronald Reagan did it in about 3 years from the Jimmy Carter disaster. He lowered the marginal tax rate to 28%, started the IRA’s, 401K’s to encourage savings and investment and it was amazing how the country came back and created jobs. That is not known as Keynsian spending philosophy. He took the advice of Milton Friedman and that is how you recover an economy from the doldrums. It is unfortunate that the Democrats just couldn’t stand it and welched on increased spending or we would have been even farther to the good.

          • July 29, 2013 at 9:30 am
            Libby says:
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            Those were different times and different circumstances, Agent. We had a financial disaster of global proportion happening in 2008 forward. You can’t even compare the two and be taken taken seriously. Reagan didn’t have half the problems Obama was left with. All economists agreed it would take 5-7 years except for you.

        • July 26, 2013 at 5:24 pm
          Jon says:
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          Show me, exactly outside of Danny and calling you a moron once (and you certainly deserved it) that I insulted people directly.

          Of course, that would actually mean you would have to support your baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks.

          I actually welcome people having a different perspective than me, and be willing to discuss it in a civil manner.

          The ultra conservatives on IJ are vehemently unwilling to do that.

          I love how you keep labeling me with terms when you’ve never, not once, actually asked me what I thought of specific things like the ACA overall.

    • July 23, 2013 at 12:02 pm
      Don't Call Me Shirley says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      A one-celled “life” is created at conception. This is hardly a human being. The zealots like to say otherwise, but even their Book of Talking Snakes and Magical Apples says that Adam supposedly didn’t have a soul until he took his first breath. Now, I don’t believe such an extreme, but just thought I’d point out the hypocrisy.

    • July 23, 2013 at 5:19 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • July 23, 2013 at 9:47 pm
        Ron says:
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        I am not a coward and will NEVER change my moniker.

      • July 23, 2013 at 11:40 pm
        Jon says:
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        Cheap shot, and entirely incorrect.

        Pathetic, really.

      • July 24, 2013 at 7:25 pm
        jw says:
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        Agent, that was a little pathetic. You can do better than that.

  • July 22, 2013 at 7:01 pm
    FFA says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Well, I just wasted about 20 hours working on a Group Health. Came to me by referral. “If that’s the premium, I will go with out”
    So many declined that it just screwed the people that wanted it out of it because they fell below Minn Participation.
    “We will wait and see what comes of OBama Care” After they did a 20 minute bash and trash on it.

    I should have know better then to even try it. Every time this SOB sticks his nose into our business, it just screws us.

    They are Health Care providers. So, from their point of view – Obama Care is not a good thing. Called it Socialized Medicine.

    • July 23, 2013 at 7:51 am
      jw says:
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      All that work for nothing. I think I would be bitter, obnoxiously bitter.

      • July 23, 2013 at 10:31 am
        FFA says:
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        I am bitter. Since OBama started this crap, my Health Income decreased dramatically. I support 8 people now on less money.

        All them groups that cancelled either went out of business or were on the verge of it so that was an expense they cut.

        • July 23, 2013 at 2:46 pm
          jw says:
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          I couldn’t work with the public. I tried to once or twice. It didn’t work out well. In fact, it got pretty ugly. Now, no one lets me near the consumers. So I have a little temper, just letting the red out. (redneck, red head)

          • July 24, 2013 at 3:05 pm
            Agent says:
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            jw, As agents dealing with the public, we are aware that we represent the company and the insured. I take the side of the insured more than the company unless the insured is really wrong. I can’t tell you how many times I had to straighten out an adjustor who interpreted coverage wrong and denied the claim. After presenting the facts, I have overturned bad decisions in all but a few cases. Some customers can get ugly if things don’t go their way, but most of the time, we can smooth the feathers down and if they want another market to handle their business, we accomodate them. I have had customers move for a higher price because they didn’t like the company and their claims practices. Those have been few and far between. The customer is not always right, but they are the customer and we don’t have an income without them.

          • July 24, 2013 at 7:28 pm
            jw says:
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            Sweetie, that’s why you’re the Agent and I’m not. :)

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:48 pm
            FFA says:
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            Sweetie??// What about me? Just cause I’m bald and fat & short????

          • July 25, 2013 at 3:51 pm
            Libby says:
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            Don’t get jealous, FFA! We’re going to snowmobile in WI when Obamacare comes in and saves the day for you!

          • July 26, 2013 at 7:21 am
            jw says:
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            See what I mean? I’m always offending someone. ;) Sorry, FFA, didn’t mean to ignore you. You’re a Sweetie, too!

    • July 23, 2013 at 5:21 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, We don’t even quote Group or Individual anymore since it is such a mess and no one knows what is going on or what will happen in a few short months. My time is spent more productively on P&C for Commercial & Personal Lines. At least it is something that is a little more predictable.

      • July 24, 2013 at 6:55 pm
        FFA says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Only reason I did it cause it was a referral.

        • July 25, 2013 at 2:13 pm
          Agent says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Yes, I know all about referrals. If it is a legitimate operation and you can do some good, they generally buy, but I have had some duds over the years as well. I had one last week when a contractor needed some GL quick to do a job, didn’t have prior coverage so we had to do an excess surplus lines quote. Got it quoted in two days and now I can’t find him. I guess he gave it to another agent that had his info for 2 weeks and then finally quoted. A waste of my time, but I am used to the ups and downs of this business. Some people are just plain goofy and think we can just snap our fingers and give them an instant quote on Commercial. Sorry, this is not Personal Lines.

      • July 25, 2013 at 10:55 am
        Agent says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Yes jw, I am an Independent Agent and proud of it. I don’t think I would fit in working for a large company again. Once was enough with Liberty Mutual many years ago. I saw where Travelers is laying off 450 employees due to some issues in that company. I am sure these laid off employees are looking forward to getting some of that good Exchange Health Insurance and paying for it out of their pocket.

        • July 25, 2013 at 11:05 am
          Libby says:
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          I’m sure those laid-off people are scared and angry, Agent. Have a little compassion.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:08 pm
            Agent says:
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            It’s called “sarcasm” Libby, something you are unfamiliar with since you are not subtle with your positions.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:43 pm
            Libby says:
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            Me? Not familiar with sarcasm?? Surely you jest!

        • July 25, 2013 at 1:19 pm
          FFA says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Travelers cut their own throat in IL. Rates are out of this world high!

  • July 23, 2013 at 11:48 am
    Sargeant Major says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Ron said- ” The issue comes with how to monitor and determine who is down on their luck and who are the bums. Whoever can figure that out without additional government bureacracy gets my vote.

    Ron, not as tough as you might think. Fact is there is little to no fraud oversight now, so anything is better than nothing. The Gov could start with:

    *People who have been on welfare over a certain period, say 5 years or longer. Audit the file and have them justify why they should stay on Welfare, Medicaid, housing subsidy, food stamps etc.

    * give all able bodied people a deadline to find a job, any job in order to eliminate their benefits or at least subsidize their benefits. If they go to work, welfare payments are subsidized based on their earnings, if they don’t go to work, they get cut off.

    • July 23, 2013 at 2:56 pm
      jw says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Five years sounds generous. I’m impressed. I think what you propose is doable. Sadly, if it makes sense, it will probably never happen.

      • July 24, 2013 at 11:24 am
        Sargeat Major says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        jw, you have to be a little generous or the left won’t buy into it. Second, 5 yeas would be easy ad the first low hanging fruit. You can then worked you way down the list

        • July 24, 2013 at 7:34 pm
          jw says:
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          It’s been a LONG time since I was had to file for benefits, so my info is a bit dated. I vaguely remember our social worker having a lot of files and never remembering us when we were there with her. I hate to say it, but they would need more people to do any file auditing.

    • July 23, 2013 at 3:39 pm
      Ron says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Sarge,

      Will this also apply to corporate welfare and subsidies?

      • July 23, 2013 at 3:46 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 13
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        Good and fair question.

        • July 25, 2013 at 1:24 pm
          FFA says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          My opinion – what good for the goose….
          I got no help at all when I made the jump to Independent. Spent 20 hours putting together a small business proposal just to be turned down the very day I put it on.
          Not Minority ownership. Door slammed in my face as quick as they could.
          2nd time in my working life I have been victimized by reverse discrimination. I am not prejudice. I am not bitter. I accept the situation for what it is.

    • July 23, 2013 at 4:10 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Sargeant, they could always do Community Service for their benefits. I understand Detroit is using volunteers and the like to maintain services since they are so broke.

      • July 24, 2013 at 11:28 am
        Sargeat Major says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        They do use volunteers but those volunteers are generally from the suburbs outside the city. There are many community projects from outside the city, organized to go into Detroit to work for the benefit of the city or the residents. It is widely known that a high percentage of the people in the city could care less as long as the mailman shows up with checks and free stuff. It is once again the taxpaying outsiders who want to help the city

      • July 24, 2013 at 7:35 pm
        jw says:
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        I don’t know about Detroit, but here many of the volunteers are doing community service for DUIs. Not me!

        • July 24, 2013 at 7:36 pm
          jw says:
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          I meant to say: many of the volunteers *here*

  • July 23, 2013 at 12:03 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    A couple more things they could do:

    Check addresses for multiple payments d make them justify why they need the support. Here is a true story- I was in line at the bank which happens to have a branch in our local grocery store. Three women were behind me. They noticed another women who was checking out with two heaping carts full of groceries. One lady says to the other and I quote ” Wow you sure are buying a whole lot of groceries” The women checking out responded and I quote ” Yea, they all eatin like they got jobs!”
    First women says, “You must have spent all your stamps for the month?”
    Women with groceries says ” No, no, we have 5 cards at our house. each one of my kids have a card, I got a card and my mom has a card. We get over 1,100 a month for food for 5 people.”
    Now I don’t know about your family but we don’t spend anywhere near that much for groceries and if that is not fraud I don’t know what is

    • July 23, 2013 at 12:18 pm
      Ron says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 24
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      Sarge,

      I agree with your proposals and am also sickened by welfare fraud and abuse. Remember that the most significant welfare reform during our lifetime was signed by President Clinton with a Republican Congress. I really miss the days when Congress and the White House worked together.

      I would have much more respect for the Republican House if they were to work to pass your proposals or some other welfare reform rather than repealing the ACA 37 times.

      The hypocrisy of the Republicans in the House is that while they complain about wasting taxpayer money they are wasting it themselves.

      What are your thoughts about drug testing for government benefits and potential unintended costs?

      • July 23, 2013 at 4:12 pm
        Agent says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Ron, you need to write to Harry Reid and ask him why he has blocked all legislation sent his way to be thrown in his waste basket. You always blame the House and it is the Senate which keeps things from being done.

        • July 23, 2013 at 4:26 pm
          Ron says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
          Thumb up 14
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          Agent,

          If you had any reading comprehension skills whatsoever you would have noticed that I have expressed my displeasure with Senate Majority Reid on several occassions. Even you educated me that most legislation begins in the House.

          Answer this question, do you think the Republican House would be better served to work on, propose, and sell welfare reform similar to Sarge’s ideas than repealing the ACA 37 times? That is a “yes” or “no” question. Also, can you answer without blaming someone else?

          • July 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
            Thumb up 22
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            Ron, I will stop blaming the Senate when you stop blaming the “Republican House” at every opportunity. You should go back to many of your prior posts to polish your reading skills. It is getting very old blaming one branch of government for our troubles. Why don’t you light into the Democratic Administration and the Democratic Senate for a change. They are the ones screwing everything up.

          • July 23, 2013 at 9:45 pm
            Ron says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
            Thumb up 16
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            Agent,

            Thank you for proving my point that you have no reading comprehension skills. How did you ever earn an Economics degree?

            When did I EVER ask you to stop blaming the Senate?

            I have previously expressed my disappointment about the Senate and the President for their parts in our current political stagnation. Do you believe the House of Representatives deserve to be held accountable at all?

            My main point through all of these posts is that the President is not an all powerful dictator and should never be given total credit when things go well nor complete blame when things are not going well. That is based on the Constitution.

            Again, do you think the Republican House would be better served to work on, propose, and sell welfare reform similar to Sarge’s ideas than repealing the ACA 37 times?

    • July 23, 2013 at 6:14 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Sargeant, to lighten up this discussion, I saw an interesting email today you will find amusing.

      There was a guy walking along a beach one day and found a lamp in the sand. He gave it a rub and out popped a Genie. The genie said she would grant him one wish. He said he wanted Eternal Life. The Genie said she wasn’t allowed to grant that. The guy then said, ok I want to die after the Democrats balance the budget and eliminate the debt. The Genie replied – You crafty bast—.

  • July 23, 2013 at 2:06 pm
    Always Amazed says:
    • July 23, 2013 at 2:25 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 23
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      Yeah, that’s a source I would listen to. NOT!

      In terms of human development an embryo is not a fetus, like a fetus is not a baby, like a baby is not a toddler, like a toddler is not a young adult… etc. Basically if you find the definition of Embryo it is: a developing human from conception to 8 weeks. The definition of Fetus is: a developing human from 8 weeks to birth. Then you enter the neonate, infant, toddler, play age…etc.etc. stages. Those are the Stages Of Human Development. So… when Pro-choice advocates say, “it’s not a baby!” They actually are correct.

      That’s what science says. Not the Duchess of York or some evangelical pro-life rag.

  • July 23, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Here is another place where the government could stop fraud. All they have to do is look around to start with.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/it_on_y22owkLpsldSAjDVC9isjM#ixzz2Zlt0LbVR

  • July 23, 2013 at 2:28 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Here is another welfare fraud that could be stopped. All the administration needs to do is look around. They don’t want to

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/it_on_y22owkLpsldSAjDVC9isjM#ixzz2Zlt0LbVR

    • July 23, 2013 at 3:37 pm
      Ron says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 17
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      Sarge,

      We all know welfare fraud exists and do not need examples.

      Do you think the Republican House would be better served to work on, propose, and sell welfare reform similar to your ideas than repealing the ACA 37 times? I know I would respect them more and would more likely get my vote.

      • July 23, 2013 at 4:14 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 20
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        How about that Sargeant? You give Ron metrics and he doesn’t want them. What a closed mind who is only focused on his point of view.

        • July 23, 2013 at 4:22 pm
          Ron says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
          Thumb up 20
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          Agent,

          Nice of you to chime in.

          I did not ask for metrics because, as I stated in my post, “We all know welfare fraud exists”.

          If you had difficulty comprehending what that means, it means I agree with Sarge and do not need more evidence.

  • July 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm
    BS says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    The misogyny and slut shaming on this board just kills me. “If a woman can’t afford to pay for birth control pills… then they just need to abstain.” Abortion is all about “a woman who just has to satisfy her lust and then wanting to get rid of the consequences for whatever reason.” “You play, you pay.”

    Not one person on this board has argued that men should wrap it up instead of having insurance providing birth control. Not one comment about vasectomy for married men. Instead we hear that women should keep their legs closed. Even the married ones. We hear that women should know better, and that pregnancy is the price she pays for having lust. The same lust her partner had, by the way, but she is the one who should ‘pay’ for it. Why? Why is a woman having sex something that needs to be paid for? Why does she deserve to be punished for something she and her partner shared in equally?

    Now, personally I don’t think BC should be covered 100% by insurance. I think companies should offer it with a co-pay like all other prescriptions. But what I don’t understand is that no one bats an eyelid when the little blue pill is covered for men, but when they try to cover something that helps prevent what the little blue can cause, everyone freaks out. Why is it OK to provide insurance for medication that allows men to ‘satisfy their lust,’ but wrong to provide insurance so that women can help prevent the product of that lust?

    • July 23, 2013 at 3:21 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 34
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      Awesome post BS!

    • July 23, 2013 at 4:19 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      I know you don’t watch O’Reilly on Fox, but last night, he went ballistic and gave some telling stats that he did give the Metrics on Ron. One of the most telling statistic is that over 70% of Black women have a baby out of wedlock. They get on the welfare train early and the baby daddy lives around the block so she can keep collecting. These are the people that are bankrupting this country with their lifestyle and culture.

      • July 23, 2013 at 4:32 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 24
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        Yeah, Bill O’Reilly. There’s a bastion of truth.

        • July 23, 2013 at 5:02 pm
          Agent says:
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          Had you been watching him for a while, you would know that he does his homework before spouting off. His viewership is about 50 times what your favorite CNN is currently.

        • July 26, 2013 at 1:29 pm
          Dave says:
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          Yet another moronic post. Just because you don’t like what O’Reilly says does not make him a liar. He bends over backwards to be truthful. In contrast to your heroes Barack, Hillary, Susan Rice and Jay Carney who obviously lied about Benghazi. Stop your unsubstantiated BS Libby.

          • July 26, 2013 at 2:00 pm
            Libby says:
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            The truth according to you and all the other right-wing blowhards. Bill O’Reilly is a big bag of wind. And Rush Lindbaugh is a big, fat idiot. As quoted from Al Franken. What a great book!

          • July 26, 2013 at 2:55 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, did I see you quote Al Franken and say he had a great book? Is this the same Al Franken that stole the election in Minnesota by having people show up with ballots in their car trunk at the last minute to swing it his way? I am not really surprised about Minnesota since their brains were frozen years ago by electing a pro wrestler Ventura as governor. He was a real piece of work and a total disaster.

          • July 26, 2013 at 3:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            I prefer to remember him as the Al Franken from Saturday Night Live. But yes I did quote him.

  • July 23, 2013 at 4:15 pm
    Always Amazed says:
    • July 23, 2013 at 4:30 pm
      BS says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      http://www.stripes.com/pentagon-ok-to-talk-about-faith-but-not-to-push-beliefs-on-others-1.219261

      “”Service members can share their faith (evangelize), but must not force unwanted, intrusive attempts to convert others of any faith or no faith to one’s beliefs (proselytization),” Pentagon spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Nate Christensen said in a written statement.

      Officials said there was no plan to step up disciplinary action to weed out unacceptable religious speech.”

      They can talk about their faith, but they can’t shove it down other people’s throats and try to convert them.

    • July 23, 2013 at 4:36 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      “Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense…” Proselytization is NOT praying.

      In case you are confused by that big word, it means: To induce someone to convert to one’s own religious faith.

      So try again, Amazed!

      • July 24, 2013 at 11:36 am
        Sargeat Major says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Well Libby,

        I am surprised you could spell it let alone know what it means.

        You must have a good dictionary

        • July 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
          Thumb up 15
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          I liked it better when you were away. You’re a nasty piece of work.

          • July 24, 2013 at 2:56 pm
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
            Thumb up 12
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            Yes, Sargeant. Libby doesn’t like the Metrics you give her that shows her complete lack of understanding of about any issue. If she thinks you are a nasty piece of work, that makes you right in my book.

            By the way, the Detroit Free Press showed some protestors outside the courthouse in Detroit for the bankruptcy hearing. They want Detroit’s debt cancelled and their pensions restored. They say the banks owe them???? What part of a city being totally broke with no way to pay do they not understand?

    • July 23, 2013 at 4:40 pm
      Libby says:
      Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • July 24, 2013 at 7:39 pm
      jw says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      All right, I don’t know where these idiots get their information, but there is no problem with praying in the military. I get my info from the source – my husband the US Army Command Sergeant Major.

  • July 23, 2013 at 4:37 pm
    Tiffany says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 19
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    I don’t understand. Why wouldn’t you want to pay for birth control for your employees? You’re actually saving money by allowing them to work for you longer, (not getting pregnant), not dishing out money for paid maternity leave, and non-pregnant workers will be more productive.

    Why does it always come down to “this is money, my values must apply to everyone under my company” in America? If you think you’re responsible enough to be the owner of a company, you should be capable of making financially sound decisions that will empower you and your employees.

    Oh, and … doing the right thing is also another good factor.

  • July 23, 2013 at 5:04 pm
    Alwasy Amazed says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • July 24, 2013 at 9:57 am
      perplexed says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Well said, Always!

    • July 24, 2013 at 1:06 pm
      Libby says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      I don’t think there is anything wrong with using Wikipedia for information, so I don’t know what you are implying. I’m about sick of you and your religious zealotry, too. Take your proselytizing and stick it where the sun don’t shine. You’re one of the worst examples of a Christian I have seen in a long time. I don’t believe what you do and never will. You’ll just have to get used to it, toots.

      • July 24, 2013 at 2:12 pm
        Always Amazed says:
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        • July 24, 2013 at 2:24 pm
          Libby says:
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          Thank you, Amazed. That’s the first nice thing you’ve said to me.

          • July 24, 2013 at 2:30 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • July 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Yup.

  • July 23, 2013 at 5:25 pm
    Celtica says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 24
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    So, let’s recap:

    Companies can choose to withhold benefits just because.
    Women should be made to pay for their lust.
    It’s all the woman’s responsibility.
    Women should not be provided any birth control.
    Men have no responsibility for birth control or held accountable for resulting children.
    Any children that result should not be provided any health benefits, food stamps or welfare.
    And let’s not even talk about child care.
    Oh, let’s throw gay marriage into the equation. After all, no resulting children from that union. But I’m guessing you don’t like that either. I know, it’s not Christian or even Selective Christian.

    Does that about capture the right wing here?
    No wonder why you are a dying party.

    • July 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 15
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      They’re not dying fast enough for me, Celtica.

  • July 24, 2013 at 1:44 am
    Gary says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 18
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    Another reason to NEVER ever allow religion to influence how people are treated in the work place.
    It does not matter if the business is privately owned. That is like saying the employer can treat employees with impunity. Just not true.

  • July 24, 2013 at 11:48 am
    Sargeat Major says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 17
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    Ron Said- “Do you think the Republican House would be better served to work on, propose, and sell welfare reform similar to your ideas than repealing the ACA 37 times? I know I would respect them more and would more likely get my vote.”

    Ron, I am not sure but the Republicans were voting against bad legislation. It was poorly thought out, poorly developed is a poorly written piece of legislation. I takes the Senate to also approve it and the President to sign it. If the Republicans can slow the process until the real benefits or lack of come to light then I think they have done their job. Looks like it was the right thing to do given the problems and the defection of Democrats.

    Besides it takes both houses to do something about entitlement reform and the Democrats won’t have anything to do with it for fear of losing one deadbeat fraudsters vote

    • July 24, 2013 at 12:08 pm
      Ron says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
      Thumb up 17
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      Sarge,

      Thank you for kinda answering my question. The only one who has delayed anything about the ACA is President Obama. What exactly has passing 37 bills for total repeal, that were not even considered by the Senate, delayed?

      I guess I should not be surprised that you are OK with the Republicans in the House spending our tax money on passing legislation that has ZERO chance of ever getting to the President to be signed. Of course he would veto it and then there would not be enough support to overide the veto.

      • July 24, 2013 at 4:59 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 13
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        Ron, not surprising,you missed the point.

        The issue was and is bad legislation which ACA is and now even some of the smarter (politically at least) Democrats are starting to see it. If the Republicans by their actions slowed down what Max Baucus (D) and chair of the finance committee called “A train wreck”, then they saved us money a lot by not having to live with junk legislation
        If it is such a great thing then why, according to you, has Obama delayed it? I can’t wait, let me guess, it is George Bush’s fault

        • July 25, 2013 at 7:40 am
          Ron says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
          Thumb up 11
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          Sarge,

          Don’t be like Agent and put words in my mouth. I NEVER blamed President Bush for anything except the invasion and handling of Iraq. They knew it was going to be a mess and cost many lives and money, but did it anyway.

          You still did not answer my question. What EXACTLY, meaning an example is required, has passing 37 bills for total repeal, that were not even considered by the Senate, delayed?

          President Obama has not delayed the entire bill, some of which has already gone into effect, just the employer mandate. He does something to help businesses and your side will not give him any credit for compromising. It is signed law that has passed the constitutionality test from a conservative leaning Supreme Court. He did not have to delay anything.

          It has all been political posturing and a waste of my tax dollars. That is my opinion and can only be changed with concrete facts with a cited source.

  • July 24, 2013 at 11:59 am
    concerned says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    one store I will no longer shop at. Separation of church and state, how dare a court allow a business owner to force his religious beliefs on his employees. so what if he doesn’t believe in chemo, employees with cancer will not receive health coverage for that??? It’s either all or nothing, you can’t offer health insurance to your employees with only coverages you believe in. This is no longer a free country and if the economy were in a better position, I’m sure many of those employees WOULD go and find different employment. Wonder if he pays minimum wage or if he is allowed to pay $3.00 per hour because he doesn’t believe in minimum wage

    • July 25, 2013 at 12:02 pm
      Always Amazed says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • July 25, 2013 at 12:51 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
        Thumb up 15
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        I found a Hobby Lobby employee survey that said the opposite. Only 41% approve of the CEO, only 29% would recommend the company to a friend, and they received 2.4 out of 5 stars overall. Another survey showed they paid -4% of the market for the same type of work. Not stellar numbers.

        And BTW, HL has no problem with birth control. It’s the morning after pill and abortion they are fighting.

        • July 25, 2013 at 1:23 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          • July 26, 2013 at 1:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            Uh. Look below this post. Didn’t you already check it out and post this?

            “So, there were 206 reviews on this site and although I did not read every single post it did appear that most of these 206 had some negative remarks about their job or the company. Well then, I would have to say that everyone on this blog at one time or another must have felt negatively about a job that either had or that they have now. Especially if they have ever worked in retail, which I had done all through my high school years and in my mid 30s until my mid 40s. It is not an easy job to do. However, 206 employees out of 21,000 employees doesn’t seem so much of a big deal unless of course you’re one of the unhappy ones. And then you can make a choice to either stick it out or find a new job. And their CEOs approval rating was 41%. Funny, isn’t that about what Obama’s is now? The irony!”

            I think you’d better lay off the xanax.

          • July 26, 2013 at 1:47 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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          • July 26, 2013 at 2:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            Did I respond to your 2nd request??? Uh, yeah. And again, you posted this:

            “So, there were 206 reviews on this site and although I did not read every single post it did appear that most of these 206 had some negative remarks about their job or the company. Well then, I would have to say that everyone on this blog at one time or another must have felt negatively about a job that either had or that they have now. Especially if they have ever worked in retail, which I had done all through my high school years and in my mid 30s until my mid 40s. It is not an easy job to do. However, 206 employees out of 21,000 employees doesn’t seem so much of a big deal unless of course you’re one of the unhappy ones. And then you can make a choice to either stick it out or find a new job. And their CEOs approval rating was 41%. Funny, isn’t that about what Obama’s is now? The irony!”

            Amazed, I’m worried about you and your obvious abuse of xanax. Please! Get some help soon! Drugs kill.

        • July 25, 2013 at 3:28 pm
          Alwasy Amazed says:
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        • July 25, 2013 at 4:50 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          • July 25, 2013 at 5:06 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes Amazed, it is ironic if they both have a 41% approval rating. The President said we are just making up phony scandals like Fast & Furious, Benghazi, IRS, DOJ, Secretary of State etc which are just phony. This sounds familiar doesn’t it? Bill Clinton, when he was dealing with the intern under his desk said he had important issues to deal with and we should just “move on”. I guess that was a phoney scandal as well. Oops! He was impeached for lying I think. Obama also said 5 years ago that he would concentrate on the economy like a laser. What did we get? Two years of promoting Obamacare and he never sold it with all his speeches. Meanwhile, the economy languishes and we haven’t seen that laser focus yet except to push through another tax increase.

          • July 25, 2013 at 5:31 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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      • July 26, 2013 at 12:25 pm
        concerned says:
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        they seem fine because they are paid minimum wage and can’t find other work. maybe they don’t want sunday’s off either and could use the extra hours. Every company, no matter how big or small, has happy and unhappy employees. enough with the president, he can’t just pass anything he wishes MOST everything doesn’t even get to his desk to sign, due to congress/senate etc. They should be given classes on bullying, as they are hell bent on not passing anything or working with each other. It’s a disgrace!! As I have stated before this county is no longer a free country, I’m sick of having political people deciding for me or telling me that since it goes against the owner’s religious beliefs it’s ok, what about my beliefs as a worker??? Separation of State and Church. I shouldn’t even know what my employers stand is on religious beliefs as it doesn’t carry over to the work place. Selling yarn, hobby stuff has no bearing on his religious beliefs. If you want to own a business, you own the business and put your religious beliefs aside, you can’t discriminate against, race, sex, religion – yes religion, so why can the business owner discrimiate and refuse to have their health insurance cover certain things. It’s wonderful that Mr. Hobby Lobby can be so high up on that pedestal and be so self-rightous!!! Must be something to be GOD

  • July 24, 2013 at 1:57 pm
    Always Amazed says:
    • July 25, 2013 at 2:04 am
      gary says:
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      You actually use Newsmax? No wonder the screen name.

  • July 24, 2013 at 4:03 pm
    1ofMany says:
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    • July 25, 2013 at 8:32 am
      Libby says:
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      What makes you think I am an “unbeliever”? Just because I don’t go around shoving my beliefs down everyone’s throat?

      • July 25, 2013 at 4:54 pm
        Always Amazed says:
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        But you do want this healthcare bill shoved down our throats. There are a lot of people out there that did not approve of this bill and what happened? It got pushed down our throats, in the middle of the night behind closed doors.

        • July 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          • July 25, 2013 at 5:00 pm
            Libby says:
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            Amazed, grow up. ALL laws are shoved down our throats. We don’t get to vote on them. Congress does. And when it passed, the majority of Congress made it law. Wasn’t it you that told me to put my big girl panties on about Hobby Lobby? You need to do the same about this and quit complaining. Lobby your Congressman or start a petition or do something constructive with your angst.

          • July 25, 2013 at 5:33 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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    • July 25, 2013 at 9:55 am
      Jon says:
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      Um, you do realize that the “Great Commission” was directed at Jesus’ Disciples, and not something that was meant to be ongoing throughout the ages, right?

      Well, at least that’s one side of the canonical argument. Christianity isn’t, and has never been, a unified belief system. (otherwise, wouldn’t we all be Roman Catholics?)

      And even if the call was meant to go down to all Christians, it’s not a call to convert, but to teach.

      Different concepts.

      Hard to understand, I know…

      • July 25, 2013 at 11:15 am
        Alwasy Amazed says:
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        • July 26, 2013 at 4:52 pm
          Jon says:
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          Careful, AA–you’re own supporters will now judge you for having “crossed” a side.

          Which actually doesn’t exist.

          In fact, this whole long hundreds-of-posts diatribe can be boiled down to people who can’t be civil enough to discuss differing viewpoints.

          I can be as guilty as the next person. Taking a day or so away from this thread helped gain perspective.

  • July 24, 2013 at 5:03 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Concerned, evidently you just started reading this blog. I posted this above and copied for you:

    Hobby Lobby is privately owned. That means David Green owns the company. What has he done? He put up his OWN MONEY in 1972 and has created 550 stores in 45 states and over 13000 jobs.

    He should be able to run the company as he sees fit and offer or not offer what he wants to. If employees don’t like it they have the right to find a job that offers the benefits that they want and leave Hobby Lobby.

    In this case you are not talking about fundamental care that would apply to cancer. You are talking about birth control. wow

    • July 24, 2013 at 5:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, you are right as usual. Birth control is a behavior, not a health condition. I want my healthcare to treat major illnesses, surgeries without being bankrupted. The libs want every nickel and dime thing covered ad nauseum on something they should have been doing all along if they didn’t want a pregnancy. Insurance companies will rate for every benefit they have to cover and the employer will get stuck with the bill in the rate increase.

    • July 25, 2013 at 12:46 pm
      Agent says:
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      So Sargeant, you may have heard excerpts from the nauseating hour+ speech of the President on the economy yesterday. All they had to do was call up in the computer his same speeches for the past five years and put it in the teleprompter. Still doing the blame game after all this time and now blaming the “phony” scandals and other distractions and calling for more “investments/spending” to solve the economic malaise of the country. How has all that Progressive/Keynsian spending worked out for us? Annual Trillion dollar debt, 50 million on Food Stamps, 23 million out of work, most jobs created are Temps or Part Time and this is the new normal. Not a word about incentives for business with tax cuts so they can hire. Instead, we have the specter of more taxes with Obamacare and more job killing policies with EPA. I am sure he will continue on with this same tired message and trying to wag the dog hoping his troubles will just go away.

      • July 25, 2013 at 12:57 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        According to the Wall Street Journal’s recent study of Congressional Budget Office numbers, corporations are paying an effective rate of 12.1%, the lowest in at least 40 years. So why are some of the biggest and most powerful entities in our society getting away with paying so little? The story is complicated, but the biggest factor in the recent collapse in corporate tax receipts appears to be a set of tax breaks built into recent stimulus efforts.

        Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/02/06/the-corporate-tax-rate-is-at-its-lowest-in-decades-is-big-business-paying-its-fair-share/#ixzz2a4sAe8fr

        • July 25, 2013 at 1:16 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, If what you say is true, why are companies not hiring full time employees anymore? Why is Kelly Services the second largest employer behind Wal Mart now? Big boys like Jeffrey Immelt pays no tax for GE. What is wrong with that picture? Small business are the ones getting hosed. Another reason why we need a flat or fair tax in this country instead of a Progressive tax. Also, Obama got his tax increase on the wealthy. Where does that fit in this discussion?

          • July 25, 2013 at 1:29 pm
            Libby says:
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            Small business and the middle class, Agent. We’re the ones that always get hosed.

          • July 25, 2013 at 1:52 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, Please explain the “Metrics” of the Presidents statement that he will work from the middle out with his program. Does this mean that he will give all Small Businesses a tax break to create jobs or does it mean he will continue to hose us with tax increases and more regulations to comply with? I must admit that I have trouble understanding Obamanomics and how this is supposed to solve the economic morass we face. 5 years is enough. It is time to do something to help the job creating folks, not the takers of our society.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:42 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Did you ever hear of the American Jobs Act proposed by President Obama and stopped by Senate Republicans because they wanted to add amendments?

            http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/politics/senate-bring-jobs-home-bill-blocked.

            The reason you have troubles understanding anything is because you are consumed by Republican talking points and unable to do your own homework.

          • July 25, 2013 at 2:48 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent, how can I give you metrics on something someone else said? I suggest you write to the White House and ask them for an explanation of the President’s statement.

  • July 24, 2013 at 5:05 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Concerned said- ” This is no longer a free country and if the economy were in a better position, I’m sure many of those employees WOULD go and find different employment.”

    Last I checked it was still a free country. and of the FREE and home of the Brave. As a communist you probably don’t now where that comes from.

    • July 25, 2013 at 5:27 pm
      Agent says:
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      So Ron, you use a Metric on a CNN story to try to show Republicans in a bad light in the Senate. At least you have graduated from blaming the Republican House. The last time I checked, the Senate is dominated by Democrats. By the way, the big amendment they wanted was extending the Bush era tax breaks. By all means, we have to have a tax increase and your President got it. What has he done to encourage small business with tax incentives to hire? I will give you a hint. 0. Just like the first letter of his name.

      • July 26, 2013 at 7:35 am
        jw says:
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        Agent, wasn’t Ron the one who said he blamed both houses of congress?

        • July 26, 2013 at 12:13 pm
          Agent says:
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          jw, if you will check, he may have said once or twice that he was unhappy with Reid, but most of his rants start with blaming the Republican House every single time. He is very hung up on that and it irks me since he won’t blame the Administration or the Democratic Senate for any of the problems this country is facing. He might have more credibility on this forum if he was more inclusive in his blame.

          • July 26, 2013 at 12:49 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            As you stated, “he may have said once or twice that he was unhappy with Reid…”

            When have you EVER blamed the Republicans for their part? All you do is find ways to spin it to look like the Republicans are perfect. I will blame the Democrats when appropriate. I am one of the very few on this blog who has held both sides accountable.

      • July 26, 2013 at 8:20 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        How is an article a metric? You constantly make me question your assertion that you have an Economics degree based on your poor understanding of statistics and inability to provide evidence for your assertions and cite the sources of your information.

        You Republicans are a piece of work. You want to separarte food stamps from the Farm Bill, but have no problem ading unrelated amendments to a jobs bill. By the way, President Obama did not get the tax increase he wanted. He wanted rates to go up for individuals making $200k and couples making $250k. The rates only went up for individuals making $400k and couples making $450k. Once again he compromised to get the bill passed and save us normal folks from seeing our rates go up.

        Did you not read the American Jobs Act President Obama proposed?
        Read more:http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/08/fact-sheet-american-jobs-act

        Besides, the Democrats do not have the supermajority (60) needed to stop a filibuster. All the Republican Senators need to do is say filibuster and the bill is dead. Do you not understand the process?

        jw,

        Your are correct. In addition, I have also expressed my displeasure with President Obama at times.

        Agent has the poorest reading comprehension skills on this blog. He is also the least credible because he likes to label others and put words in their mouths without providing evidence to make those assertions.

  • July 24, 2013 at 5:06 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Land of the Free and Home of the Brave

  • July 25, 2013 at 10:24 am
    1ofmany says:
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    • July 25, 2013 at 11:01 am
      Libby says:
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      Define Christian. If it means I go around talking about people’s “fruits,” then no. If it means I quote scripture to complete strangers, then no. If it means I judge and condemn others for their beliefs, then no.

      And just what kind of language do I use on here that others do not? If it offends you, I apologize. But this is a public forum and not a religious blog.

      • July 25, 2013 at 1:51 pm
        1ofmany says:
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        • July 25, 2013 at 3:00 pm
          Libby says:
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          Please show me where I have spoken out against religions. And as far as I am concerned, the basic beliefs of Christianity are love, tolerance, forgiveness, and the golden rule. As far as how far you want to interpret the scriptures, that differs by denomination. I would think if you were any kind of Christian you would know that. But you obviously have another definition of Christianity which includes shoving your beliefs down the throats of people that did not ask and do not want them and of judging and condemning people on a regular basis. I do not attend your type of church.

          As far as using the “antiquated” word proselytizing, it was a direct quote from the Army spokesman about prayer in the military and I was responding to a ridiculous post by your buddy in arms, Amazed.

          And there are many on here that use coarse words and call me names, your aforementioned buddy for one. Now please, go away and leave me alone. I do not have to answer for my faith to the likes of you.

  • July 25, 2013 at 10:57 am
    Jon says:
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    Damn you IJ and your ability to lose posts…

    Two in one day!

    • July 25, 2013 at 11:02 am
      Libby says:
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      That happened to me one time and I emailed them. They found them and posted them.

      • July 25, 2013 at 3:39 pm
        Jon says:
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        In a spark of rare irony–the response I left to you…failed to post.

        Ah, humor.

        • July 25, 2013 at 3:53 pm
          Libby says:
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          Looks like it got fixed, tho!

    • July 25, 2013 at 6:21 pm
      Agent says:
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      Why don’t you just unsubscribe to IJ if you are so mad at them? Maybe you should try to clean your Cookies sometime so your computer will operate.

      • July 26, 2013 at 10:15 am
        Libby says:
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        Agent you get testy late in the day. Sure hope you don’t go home and kick the dog.

        • July 26, 2013 at 11:37 am
          Agent says:
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          Sorry Libby, that was aimed at Jon for cursing IJ because his rants wouldn’t post. My guess is that it is not the site, but his own clogged computer that is at fault.

          • July 26, 2013 at 12:13 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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          • July 26, 2013 at 1:06 pm
            Libby says:
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            A page out of Sarge’s book, eh, Amazed? I see you are all for censoring. What’s your stance on book burning?

            And they call me a Communist!

          • July 26, 2013 at 1:34 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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          • July 26, 2013 at 2:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            I emailed them, too, Amazed (see above.) They told me they don’t block anything. Stuff just gets stuck sometime. So feel free to say whatever you like to me. But don’t be offended when you get thumbed down.

          • July 26, 2013 at 5:07 pm
            Jon says:
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            Agent, I would wager, heavily, that I am far more IT savvy than you. (% rm Agent-ethics)

            It’s not a computer issue on *my* end.

            You know what gets me? The rampant incredible animosity on your part, which I know deep down and truly within the core of my being, that you don’t have the stones to be this much of a d-bag if this were a face-to-face conversation.

            Easy to act like an alpha dog sitting in front of a computer screen Agent. Much tougher to do in person.

        • July 26, 2013 at 2:31 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          • July 26, 2013 at 3:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Why do my comments show up the minute I hit post, then? You can’t get thumbed down until your comment has posted, so there’s no way they are censoring. You repubs see conspiracy around every corner, don’t you? I guess because you think there’s a war on for your mind. LOL!!!

          • July 26, 2013 at 3:50 pm
            FFA says:
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            AA going all old school. Gotta Love it!
            What did you think about Topinka whining that Quinn “defunded” payroll account for senators & rep???

            instead they paid my NFP the $$ they owe them so they could pay their insurance bill. Just in time too as the carrier told me they were going to notify State Dept of Health on 7/31 they were out of force. Would have cost 60 people their jobs they actually do instead of the knuckle heads sitting around getting paid for nothing.

            Brass Ball move indeed!

          • July 26, 2013 at 9:48 pm
            jw says:
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            AA you have so many issues I’m cancelling my subscription.

          • July 29, 2013 at 12:41 pm
            Agent says:
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            Jon, it was totally uncalled for to curse Insurance Journal for your inability to post comments. Perhaps they don’t like your comments any more than I do and have censored some of your worst outbursts. Who is being a d-bag for making ugly comments? You and your ilk have no place in the business world. If I were your employer, I would hand you a box and tell you to clear out.

          • July 29, 2013 at 12:54 pm
            Libby says:
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            It was a figure of speech, Agent. Like “Damn your eyes!” Get over your moral outrage.

          • July 30, 2013 at 9:37 am
            jw says:
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            Agent! How can you critisize Jon for his mouthy posts when you advocated for lobotomies? Seriously?

      • July 26, 2013 at 5:13 pm
        Jon says:
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        You just can’t be civil to save your life, can you?

        I pity your spouse.

  • July 26, 2013 at 3:08 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Hi Always:

    Good post and don’t worry Libby is the only one outside of maybe IJ that does any censoring or multiple voting. Then she has the Ba**s to try and say someone else is to blame to try and make herself look good- Ha

    Just look at how the posts on each blog flow. She argues with multiple people while she posts stupid comments like the coat hanger comment, KKK web link not to mention she can’t spell her own father’s alma mater (If that is even true). She then gets thumbed down by anyone and everyone, gets mad and toward then end of the posts the subject, she takes time from her “busy” day at the reception desk and votes herself happy.

    • July 26, 2013 at 3:21 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Yeah, Sarge, I censor myself. You’re a joke. The writing is on the wall and you have been tried and convicted. I hold my own and even pull ahead on some things until you show up. Then I get more thumbs down on one comment than there are on the entire article put together and you, miraculously, get thumbed up an equal amount. I’d say you’re the one with b*lls to come on here and accuse me, but it’s obvious you haven’t any. Otherwise you wouldn’t feel a need to censor me and try to put me down. What are you 5’5″, bald, and stuck in an unhappy marriage? Don’t take it out on me, you cheating d*ckhead.

      • July 29, 2013 at 5:12 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        You are a liar of the first order. That 5’5″ guy? I think you must have described your spouse because no one else would marry a hog like you, D*ckhead

        • July 30, 2013 at 9:44 am
          Libby says:
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          What a fine example of an NCO you are. I see I was right in my assessment of you. You’re a disgrace to the service.

      • July 30, 2013 at 9:43 am
        jw says:
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        Libby. Sarge. The name calling has crossed over to not helping. Can we move on now?

        • July 30, 2013 at 9:48 am
          Libby says:
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          I agree and I’m done.

          • August 1, 2013 at 6:35 pm
            Sargeant Major says:
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            If you can’t take it, don’t start it. You have slammed service before why not now. Your the disgrace to be the “so called” daughter of a WEST POINT graduate but that is probably a lie as well.

    • July 26, 2013 at 4:51 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, We need to take time out from the war with Libby and discuss the important issues like the new travel cavalcade with the President on the economy. To me, it is just a copy of the 5 year old speech regurgitated on the teleprompter with a few new terms like “we need to “rebuild the economy from the middle out”. I have a degree in Economics and that is a new one for me. Did he learn that from his Cloward & Pivin textbook? Maybe it is a clever way of saying he needs to have another of those non job creating stimulus packages designed to add another trillion in debt with no positive benefits except to his bundlers. There is also some talk about him bailing out Detroit. After all, they did support him and we musn’t let the unions down. Do you think he has called Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. yet to smooth his feathers down and promise subsidies to the union when they lose their Cadillac plans? Jimmy is not a happy camper and wants a fix on this mess.

      • July 29, 2013 at 9:48 am
        Libby says:
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        The “war” with Libby? What the hell is that all about? Why are we “at war?” Because I do not agree with your politics? Newsflash for you – neither do about 1/2 of America. But good news, the other 1/2 does! This is why nothing is getting done in Washington. People can’t sit down like adults and have a constructive discussion without “going to war.” We are all following in Congress’s footsteps. It’s time the American people stood up and became an example for Congress and showed them how to get along. I’m willing to? Are you?

        • July 29, 2013 at 10:31 am
          Agent says:
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          Libby, I refer to your acidic comments on this and other blogs against any Conservative commenter. It really doesn’t matter if it is Sargeant, me, Always Amazed, Dave, Bob, Perplexed. You are out to pick a fight and often get nasty when someone posts something that is against your narrative.

          This all started with the hate GW during the last two years of his Presidency and it was Progressives who called for him to be Impeached, tried as a traitor and you were right at the front of that line. Do you think that was constructive or showing a willingness to get along? We have all shown you numerous examples of the errors of the Progressive agenda, what is wrong with Keynesian spending policy, debt and trickle up poverty. Did you see the AP article just published that the American Dream is just about gone? How is it a good thing to make a whole economy poor in order to bring the poor up by giving them more and more entitlements? Who are the job creators now?

          • July 29, 2013 at 10:51 am
            Libby says:
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            I AM NOT FOR MORE ENTITLEMENTS AGENT!!! How many times do I have to say that. I am against the fraud and would like to see it addressed. Those are all things we agree on.

            My issue with George Bush has nothing to do with him being a Republican. It has everything to do with Iraq. He is the ONLY Rep POTUS I that I have bashed. Our opinions differ on that. Big deal. You won’t accept mine and I won’t accept yours. I don’t need to go to war over it. That was Dubya’s style, not mine.

    • July 26, 2013 at 5:46 pm
      Always Amazed says:
      Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • July 29, 2013 at 9:50 am
        Libby says:
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        You had me with character. I’ll accept that. But you calling me self-rightous is like the pot calling the kettle black!

      • July 29, 2013 at 12:33 pm
        Agent says:
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        Yet another comment that is disagreeable to me. Your disrespect for President Bush is legion. You then are outraged when we refer to your President as Obummer or Nobama. By the way, your President referred to the Afghan war as the right war at the right time and has made a mess there and built a military headquarters there for $30 million large at the same time he said he was drawing down the troops. This HQ will never be used by our troops, but it will be good for the Taliban commanders to finish the job of taking over the country when we leave.

        • July 29, 2013 at 12:52 pm
          Libby says:
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          Agent – I have never been outraged by you calling Obama names. This is America and you are entitled to call him anything you want. How could I be outraged when I call Bush Dubya and Imbecile? You have me mixed up with someone else.

          I have never defended the building of that military HQ. I do think Obama made the right decision about Afghanistan at the time, but I’m glad we’re getting out now. I have never criticized Bush for going into Afghanistan. Again, you have me mixed up with someone else.

          Please get your facts straight before you lambaste someone for no good reason.

          • July 29, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            Agent says:
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            I get some of you liberal bloggers mixed up. Perhaps it was Planet in one of his idiotic comments he makes from time to time. We haven’t heard much of him lately, have we? Of course, Obama has telegraphed every move to our enemies and tells them when we are leaving so they are sitting back waiting for the day to come and meanwhile if they can pick off some more of our troops, so much the better as far as they are concerned. We help build the infrastructure, schools and they come along and blow it up. What a deal.

          • July 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm
            Libby says:
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            Afghanistan has been underestimated by us (Bush and Obama) and also the USSR. We don’t understand the geography, the culture, or the people. If they want to blow it up, let them. I’m glad they know we’re leaving so they can just sit back and wait. Let us go in peace. What they do after that, I don’t care.

      • July 29, 2013 at 5:43 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, I wish you would vent your rage one time against what is going on right now or going back 5 years. Please don’t bother to blame the Republican House like Ron does every time. I don’t mind if you vent against John McCain or Lindsay Graham. They are the type of RINO’s who should be recalled because they have bought into all the big spending nonsense that has us with a $17 Trillion debt and Trillion dollar deficits each year and just keep on spending borrowed money even if the interest rates go up after the country is downgraded on the credit. We have talked about unsustainable debt before and it goes in one ear and out the other and liberals keep whistling a happy tune and are more than willing to jump in the pit like lemmings with not a care in the world.

        • July 29, 2013 at 6:25 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, Could you please take a refresher course in actual history? The reason we went to Afghanistan to start with was the Taliban letting Al Quida train there so they could do their thing on 9/11/01. Al Quida keeps re-constituting itself and there seems to be quite a supply of terroists even if we killed Bin Laden. What is to keep them Afghanistan from allowing them free reign again to do more deeds of Terror? This country had better wake up and deny entry of any Muslim wanting to come here. They mean to kill us all and the so called peaceful Muslims are not loyal to this country, but to Allah. I have not seen their outrage and condemnation for these terrible people. I guess the reason is they fear reprisals if they speak out.

        • July 30, 2013 at 9:41 am
          Libby says:
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          Agent – I don’t have rage to vent and if I do I will vent it at the parties I want; not the ones you tell me to.

          I know very well the reasons we went into Afghanistan and said I agreed with them. Still you find it necessary to insult me and tell me I am uneducated.

          I will respond no further because it’s obvious you are incapable of holding any type of civil discussion on any topic. You are rude, pig-headed and totally mired in your own dogma.

    • July 29, 2013 at 2:47 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, what is this story I saw from a CNN report that Detroit is in the process of building a new hockey rink for the Red Wings? It has a price tag of $444 million. Hmm! They can’t pay for the basic services of the city, took Chapter 9, but they can build a hockey rink? What subsidy did they qualify for to do this?

      • July 29, 2013 at 3:06 pm
        Libby says:
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        That’s disgusting. If the owner wants a new stadium, let him fund it himself. What political moron approved that state subsidy? I’m sure glad I don’t live in Detroit. Those people are downright insane.

  • July 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm
    Always Amazed says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • July 29, 2013 at 10:42 am
      Libby says:
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      Who are “you people?” People named Libby? People that live in PA?

      • July 29, 2013 at 3:27 pm
        Always Amazed says:
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        The reply was sent from someone named Josh. Does it make a differnece? The fact is that IJ does monitor these posts and they do block posts – it’s not a compter glitch. If you don’t want to belive me I really could not care the least because your miss-know-it-all attitude just shines on through even when you are wrong which in this case you are.

        • July 29, 2013 at 3:36 pm
          Libby says:
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          I don’t care what his name is. I was talking about your comment to me about “you people.”

          This is exactly what I posted and it was you that responded back with so much venom:

          “I emailed them, too, Amazed (see above.) They told me they don’t block anything. Stuff just gets stuck sometime. So feel free to say whatever you like to me. But don’t be offended when you get thumbed down.”

  • July 29, 2013 at 10:39 am
    1ofmany says:
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    • July 29, 2013 at 10:44 am
      Libby says:
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      Someone is helping me out and I appeciate the help. I’ve been the lone ranger on this board for a long, long time.

    • July 29, 2013 at 12:32 pm
      jw says:
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      Good.

    • July 29, 2013 at 3:16 pm
      Always Amazed says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • July 29, 2013 at 3:29 pm
        Libby says:
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        I only recited what I was told by them. That “stuff gets stuck.” If that’s what they wrote to you, I’m not disputing it. Now, how bout that xanax?

      • July 29, 2013 at 3:32 pm
        Libby says:
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        And FYI, this is why you got thumbed down:

        “You people are something else.”

        • July 29, 2013 at 4:52 pm
          Sargeant Major says:
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          Agent said- “Sargeant, what is this story I saw from a CNN report that Detroit is in the process of building a new hockey rink for the Red Wings? It has a price tag of $444 million.
          Well,this is really a metro Detroit effort. In other words the money is coming from multiple resources including the county, private business, Olympia Entertainment (Owners) etc. Not that I agree with the city spending money they don’t have but this is really one thing that will get people downtown and pay for itself. It is not some government giveaway that is squandered or stolen by the ex mayor(D) (now in prison), council members (D) (some now in prison. Without a reason to get people downtown, then the city only gets worse. The Owners of the Red Wings have done more for the city than just about anyone.

          • July 29, 2013 at 5:50 pm
            Agent says:
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            Thanks for the explanation Sargeant. What do the fans do if they are assaulted when they leave or the cars are vandalized while watching a game? The Red Wings may have to spend some extra money for rink security and parking security to make this pay off. In Dallas, American Airlines Arena is a state of the art facility for the Mavericks and Stars and I don’t know that they have any security issues there. I have been to several games there and they just don’t have a problem, but then again, it is not Detroit either.

  • July 29, 2013 at 5:00 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Agent,

    Detroit will not bring people back to the city (unless they work in the city limits)unless they do something about crime, do something about the lousy school system, do something about city services which are horrible and do something about the lousy people they have had run the city for the past 50 years. The state and Fed government have thrown billions into the city via recovery zones, renaissance zones, state and fed subsidy etc. and look what the got. BTW the last Republican Mayor as Louis Miriani who left office in January 1962.

    • July 29, 2013 at 5:55 pm
      Agent says:
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      Sargeant, when you do the same failed policies over and over expecting a different result, that is pure stupidity. They think they can spend their way to prosperity. It has never worked in the history of the world. Absolute Power corrupts absolutey. No wonder they have had so many problems there. I was watching the Canadian Open Golf tournament broadcast from Windsor, Ontario. They have a clean city there and very little crime. What in your judgment is the difference? After all, they are not very far apart geographically.



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