Employers Making Benefit Changes Under Cover of Obamacare

By Alex Nussbaum | September 19, 2013

  • September 19, 2013 at 2:04 pm
    Dave says:
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    Ah, the law of unintended consequences, a law not taught to those on the left or in their schools. I have a friend, voted for Obama, cheered at the passage of Obamacare and it’s being upheld by the Supreme Court. She works for Walgreens. Poof, no more company sponsored health care insurance. Have fun with Obamacare. So much for Obama’s promise, “If you like your doctor and your plan, you can keep them.” Right!

    • September 19, 2013 at 3:12 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Hardly unintended consequences. It’s been happening for years as benefits are downsized before disappearing altogether. Anyone still getting a pension? Anyone still getting full bennies without any contribution?

      It stinks that employers are shedding their social responsibility towards workers. What is astounding is that the Right doesn’t necessarily want personal responsibility. They want those handle outs from employers from cradle to grave.

      Things change. Fund your own retirement and buy your own benefits. SL has a point — employers who do offer the benefits will be have the pick of the employee pool.

      And isn’t that the way it should be — in a capitalistic, competitive society?

      • September 20, 2013 at 7:30 pm
        bob says:
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        You are delusional and are mixing two things together entirely wrong. Republicans don’t want the added responsibility of sharing additional costs that the government is intentionally throwing at the middle class, and then stepping in after raising those costs saying the middle class needs help. Do you see why a government might want to do that and why a republican would not want to take responsibility for the government’s additional costs? Also, republicans simultaneously want help from their employers, and for Obamacare not to exist (which would be $5,000 dollars less, plus a subsidy, or assistance from an employer) that is not contradictory.

        Let’s go over this: Employers want to ditch the absurd cost increases due to Obamacare. Obamacare rose the cost to begin with. The original CBO projection wasn’t far off either with what it costs to insure the average family by 2016 (we aren’t there yet) but it would be $5,000 less in the absence of Obamacare. Kaiser says inclusive of the subsidy premiums will go down. So far without it, premiums rates filed are up 25%, which is worse than the 2016 prediction assuming that actually pans out across the remaining states. Premiums rising 25% just to then receive a 10% off premium reduction through subsidies sounds a little stupid when you could have just lowered the costs 10% through the republican CBO rated plan, and then just added subsidies, which would actually reduce the costs substantially.

        http://www.humanevents.com/2009/11/05/house-call-today-cbo-says-gop-health-care-plan-reduces-costs/

        At the end there you mentioned a capitalistic competitive society…But you neglected to state that the reason there aren’t as much employers with competitive benefits IS the government and this healthcare law.

        You can’t just have the government intervene and change the whole market and then pretend you’re supporting a capitalistic, competitive society. It is firstly condescending how you said it, but secondly ignorant how you interpreted it.

    • September 19, 2013 at 3:15 pm
      Agent says:
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      Some of the employee bloggers on this site will also be freed up by their employers to go to the exchanges, have to accept the higher deductibles, higher out of pocket expense and lack of the perks they have enjoyed on their company sponsored healthcare coverage. They wanted it and now they can have it.

      • September 19, 2013 at 3:37 pm
        Libby says:
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        • September 19, 2013 at 4:17 pm
          Perplexed says:
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          Celtica,as progressive and left leaning as you are it’s ironic that you would tell Dave that the Right doesn’t want personal responsibility and supports hand outs from cradle to grave. Handouts from cradle to grave more correctly describe what the labor unions have supported. The Right hardly supports the nanny state that Obama has increased by the hundred fold. Progressives would have all of the U.S. sucking at the breast of the government if they could. Have you heard that food stamp costs have increased from $35B to $74B from 2008 to 2013? 22,000,000 people have been added to the government dole since December 2007.

          • September 19, 2013 at 4:32 pm
            Libby says:
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            Perplexed – the right seems to have no problem dumping corporate health benefits and allowing their employees to be subsidized by the U.S. Government.

          • September 19, 2013 at 5:02 pm
            Celtica says:
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            Preplexed — Ironic, ain’t it. With the right balking about healthcare benefits moving from employer paid to indvidual paid, it’s clear the Right wants the status quo. Even if the status quo is not sustainable.

            As for Progressives wanting a nanny state, I say nah to that. I work day in and day and and expect other able bodied men and women to as well. There are no free rides in my book.

            When it comes to food stamps, I do not and would not begrudge a human being their daily bread.

          • September 19, 2013 at 6:44 pm
            Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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            Food stamp costs have increased because greedy rich criminals tanked our economy and put working people out of jobs. Similarly, the Mitt Romneys sent many jobs to other countries, which was not necessary. It just put even more profits into those who already were making more than they were worth – they were just scamming everyone.

            As you noted, 22M have been added to the dole since December 2007. December 2007 – long before Obamacare.

            Now the fatcats are using Obamacare as a trick to scam even more money for themselves, undeservedly. What these people make isn’t earning; it’s embezzlement.

        • September 20, 2013 at 11:35 am
          Always Amazed says:
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          If it’s such a great plan than why are government employees expempt from it? Does ANYONE have the answer to that question? Have the unions also been excluded? I lost track of how many groups have been put on the expempt list – I think some religions were put in the catagory as well. It’s hard to keep up these day.

          • September 20, 2013 at 12:00 pm
            Libby says:
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          • September 20, 2013 at 12:48 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            You still didn’t answer my question as to why the government officials who so over joyfully voted this into law are EXPEMPT from it. – oh wait – it was just defunded!

          • September 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm
            Libby says:
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        • September 20, 2013 at 7:34 pm
          bob says:
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          Libby,

          The right is content getting subsidies SO THAT their premiums don’t actually go up by the 25% average that they have done so far due to this law.

          Is is not a hypocrite. The government forced us to need it, so we take what we need.

          http://www.humanevents.com/2009/11/05/house-call-today-cbo-says-gop-health-care-plan-reduces-costs/

          If that passed, we wouldn’t need a subsidy, but could still put one in place. This is what republicans wanted.

          You can keep being delusional, or you could admit this healthcare plan is plan out wrong, and bad for the middle class as well as the economy.

          • September 23, 2013 at 8:56 am
            Libby says:
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            “You can keep being delusional, or you could admit this healthcare plan is plan out wrong, and bad for the middle class as well as the economy.”

            How about none of the above?

          • September 23, 2013 at 9:48 am
            Libby says:
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            Not so fast, Bob. Read this…

            http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=95403

          • September 23, 2013 at 6:19 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            We’ve been through this before:

            Having [high cost] health insurance is not in itself a benefit. 17% of the adults who don’t have health insurance, remind me, how many of them have a net tangible benefit in having insurance (when it comes to coverage). You will likely say blah blah something about preventative care. Here’s the thing Libby: Preventative care through insurance currently, cannot prevent most of the main three causes of death. Obesity is at 33%. Cancer and Heart disease are linked therein.

            They get covered, currently the hospital eats the bill.

            The idea (lie) behind what Obama is saying that those hospitals would no longer eat the bill thus lowering premiums (also stated by captain planet himself, and he’s clearly wrong in that belief).

            We already know the CBO rated the democrat plan as raising premiums.

            The amount of those insured is completely irrelevant. I might add, currently there are programs that pay if you are too poor to pay medical bills. You keep saying people who cannot afford health insurance cannot get treatment. It’s a blatant, lie. My brother just went into the hospital, I drove him in myself. First and foremost, again, they had him in the room before they asked if he had insurance (he didn’t). They treated him, advised him about financial aid for people who are unemployed and sent him on his way. My father, they didn’t even ask for his insurance info.

            Who presently is not getting treatment that does not have insurance? Give me those numbers. Immediately.

            This is not efficient, and is the problem behind the law.

            The republican numbers are realistic, and bring down premiums for everyone who wants to be a part of having insurance.

            The democrat ones are idealistic, and raise premiums by again FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS per family by comparison to without Obama care. If a family cannot afford a $10,500 dollar policy (employer pays half at the minimum), then they are eligible for medicaid.

            Before I go further on this I will also again ask, which companies are not paying at least half of their employee’s heatlhcare? As long as you have a job, you do have insurance. The democrats even admit this. This plan is for those who do not. And if it is for those who do not, then we should put in place a subsidy system or single payor for low income households. Not increase the cost as Obama has done..

          • September 24, 2013 at 7:58 am
            jw says:
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            bob,

            You said: “They get covered, currently the hospital eats the bill.”

            Since when is this a good business model?

            Did you think about hospitals closing because their ratio of insured and indigent is heavy on the indigent?

            How is this a good idea?

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:06 pm
            bob says:
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            JW:

            Rather than listen to your immature comments about the current model flaws, how about you address how Obama’s (lie) is going to help?

            You missed the irony. If currently the hospital eats the bill (and statistically does not close, this supposedly is what raises insurance costs according to Obama again, [lie]) then why is it that giving insurance to more people isn’t lowering the cost of insurance (25% increase so far)

            Clearly, the current model works better, as in reality, I was pointing out, yet again, the hospital truly does not eat the bill. It is called medicaid assistance to people who cannot afford it who end up in the hospital.

            The total that hospitals ate in most recent years was $8 billion. Premiums are expected to be $5,000 higher per person under Obama care. We had about 45,000,000 people insured before the recession. $5,000 more per each is 4.5 trillion dollars, divide it by the average family size of 3 to get 1.5 trillion to cover an $8 billion dollar hospital expense?

            The math does NOT add up JW. Somewhere along the lines Obama is lying about how costs are coming down. If the hospitals $8 billion per year being passed to insurance companies costs $5,000 per family, 1.5 trillion per year, this is NOT an efficient law.

            While you can talk in vague terms, it’s about time you did some math on your own.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:07 pm
            bob says:
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            JW: Typo: $5,000 more per family by comparison to the republican 2009 CBO rated plan.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:50 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – you continue to labor under the false assumption that ALL people get adequate medical care regardless of whether or not they are insured. I have already proven this is not the case in other posts. So who is it that is lying here? You or Obama?

            It is a proven FACT that people without insurance do not seek treatment during the critical initial stages of illness &/or disease and actually have higher mortality rates than the insured.

            You have also made the statements that preventative care will not prevent the top 3 killers in this country. This, as I have also proven, is a false statement.

            You are very naive if you think everyone gets the same identical level of care in this country whether they are insured or not. That is not the case. You are the one speaking in simplistic terms about a very complex issue. If I had to stack your brains up against Obama’s, I’d definitely take Obama.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:57 pm
            Libby says:
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            This just in:

            Arkansas: Health Insurance Rates Lower than Expected in New Marketplace

            By 25%.

            http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2013/09/24/306140.htm

          • September 24, 2013 at 4:48 pm
            Justaguy says:
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            I’m trying to figure out bobs numbers. 45 million people divided by 3 is 15 million families. At $5,000 per family doesn’t that work out to $75 trillion?

          • September 24, 2013 at 4:54 pm
            Libby says:
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            Wow! Someone actually pays attention to Bob’s posts!

  • September 19, 2013 at 2:34 pm
    sl says:
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    Corporate greed…Corporations may soon be the victim of unintended consequences as well. People will choose their employment based on preference for the actual job with no part of the decison being made regarding the health care plan (since there won’t be one). No pension, no healthcare – some of the tedious big corporate jobs may find less takers for their positions. Or corporations will have to pay more to attract talent – which will be fine – then the employee’s will use the money to buy their own health plan and save for retirement. Over the long run sounds like a potentially good change and supports the freedom we so value. Freedom is not to be tied to a job because you need the health care (pre-existing conditions). That is gone and it’s a good thing!

    • September 19, 2013 at 3:10 pm
      Original Bob says:
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      Smart business owners will always pay more for people who increase their bottom line. It doesn’t need to come in the form of offering of health care benefits – highly skilled/valued employees have the income to pay for their own premiums. It is the cradle to grave mentality that removes the incentive for working people to improve their positions in life that will ultimately threaten our freedom.

  • September 19, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    Sargeant Major says:
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    Celtica said- “SL has a point — employers who do offer the benefits will be have the pick of the employee pool.”

    Celtica, that is correct. Employees looking for work will be able to choose if the employer provides wages and benefits that suit them. If the employer is not competitive they have the right to go work for someone else.
    The challenge is, once large corporations start eliminating healthcare or giving the employee “a check” (which generally is about the same as what the company contributes now), smaller employers will follow because they can remain competitive with the larger companies and so on. Even with “a check” the employee will get stuck with the additional cost of ACA if it is higher than what “the check” covers.

    • September 19, 2013 at 6:30 pm
      Celtica says:
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      So — Sargeant Major — then you do want the status quo. You want employers to be responsible for providing health care benefits rather than the individual.

      • September 19, 2013 at 8:15 pm
        Sargeant Major says:
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        It doesn’t matter what I want. I think it depends on what happens with ACA. If ACA is fully implemented business will take the position that best suits the investors and shareholders (i.e. people who own the company and want a return on their investment or they fire the management and get people who will do it). That means business will find a way to reduce the additional cost increase of ACA and eligibility, If that means do away with healthcare and issue a check, cut employee hours to part time, eliminate spousal coverage etc, they will do it. It may not be in the best interests of the employees and the employee will either take it or find other employment hey like better. That is if there is any better option for them.

        • September 20, 2013 at 9:20 am
          Libby says:
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          • September 20, 2013 at 2:58 pm
            FFA says:
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            Better screwed out of Health Insurance then screwed out of a job all together.

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:12 pm
            Libby says:
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            We’ll see, FFA. There’s not much incentive for them to stay employed there and certainly he will gain no loyalty from them. He may end up being the one screwed.

            And it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:22 pm
            FFA says:
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            The incentive would be they have a pay check coming in. I am sure that in his neck of the woods, its skews the National Employment Rate in the wrong direction. I know Ill does. We have been consistently 2% higher then the national average. If state farm pulls out of Bloomington, watch out….. Bloomington Area was around 6% last I saw.

            And yes, time will tell how this plays out..

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:45 pm
            Libby says:
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            There will come a time (God willing) when just having a paycheck is no longer incentive enough for good people to stay with inferior employers. When that time comes, I think Sarge will have a rude awakening.

            He can get away with screwing his employees now, as many employers are, because the choices are limited. That will not always be the case. Then we’ll see who gets screwed.

            Again, it couldn’t happen to a nicer gent.

          • September 20, 2013 at 6:10 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby says “There will come a time (God willing) when just having a paycheck is no longer incentive enough”

            It was like that just a few short years ago. Now, its survival of the fittest. Keeping the roof over my head is priority #1.

    • September 20, 2013 at 10:06 am
      Agent says:
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      You are right Sargeant. Most employers pay a portion or all of the employee cost and the employee pays the dependent cost. Suppose the company just gives a check equal to the expiring employee cost premium and tells the employee to go to the exchange. The employee finds his premium for himself and dependents to be double what he had and with far less coverage, higher deductibles and higher out of pocket expense. A lot of people are going to get a rude awakening when they get into this. I don’t know that employers are going to give a huge raise to the employee to offset the increased cost.

      • September 20, 2013 at 11:32 am
        Libby says:
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        So, instead of writing his employees a check for the amount of money he used to pay for benefits, Sarge is placing them in a PEO, washing his hands of them, and keeping the money for himself. What a guy!

      • September 20, 2013 at 2:59 pm
        FFA says:
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        People don’t realize that until they see the Cobra Premiums.

  • September 19, 2013 at 5:29 pm
    D says:
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    It’s all a big re-direction project. If, in the end, people get healthcare coverage directly from the exchanges/insurers rather than corporate america that is a win for capitalism and a win for all the new insured who could not otherwise get coverage.

  • September 19, 2013 at 6:10 pm
    Baxtor says:
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    All what I can speak to is what has happened since the ACA was implemented. My employer sponsored health plan has removed many covered benefits, including blood work during my physical. Before it paid for it all, not the only coverage they said they have to offer according to the ACA is a cholesterol test. My cost have gone up, which would have anyway, my deductible has gone to the large deductible, and my coverages have gone down. Unintended consequences maybe, but corporate America is taking advantage of it. Maybe that’s another reason Obama got re-elected. Big corporations knew they could reduce benefits and blame it on the plan, thus helping drive Obama’s reelection. And we all thought Obama and big business didn’t get along…

    • September 19, 2013 at 6:32 pm
      Celtica says:
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      Baxtor — then you really want someone else other than yourself to pay for your healthcare.

      That is really what it amounts to.

    • September 19, 2013 at 8:25 pm
      Sargeant Major says:
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      Baxtor,

      We have had a very generous company subsidy and nearly all employees participate. Our plan has gone up in each of the last 4 or 5 years and we have eaten most of each increase. As a note we have been a healthy group. Eating cost ends with the next renewal if what the rep and underwriter are telling us. They said to expect a 60 to 80% increase when ACA is fully implemented. So, as prudent business people we have to come out of this with no more cost than we are paying now. So we are taking steps to eliminate hours or some, move some employees to a peo and will pass the additional cost on to the remaining. We still will not come out even but we have found is the affordable healthcare act for us is not affordable. We are generous but we are not a non profit organization.

    • September 19, 2013 at 8:37 pm
      Sargeant Major says:
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      It is not a win for the employee who has to go to an exchange and pay far more than under the former corporate plan, or forgo it all together because the penalty is less expensive or forgo coverage because they can’t afford it even with the subsidy or their employer eliminated healthcare and the company subsidy and they now have to fend for themselves with a bunch of numb nut health insurers, or the employee who now has to find insurance on a sick spouse that had been covered by the employer and no longer is. These are same employees who now pay taxes.

    • September 20, 2013 at 11:52 am
      Always Amazed says:
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      Obama and big business didn’t get along? HAHAHAHA! The joke is on us. Obama just had a bunch of lobbyists visit him the other day at the WH, gee I wonder which ones they were. And I clearly remember when he was running that he said he wouldn’t be taking money from lobbyists. He also ran on transparency and has to be the most nontransparent presidents we’ve ever had in office. I hope you’re all enjoying the “hope & change” he promised because I haven’t seen any of it. He is just another wind bag from Chicago who by his great charismatic speeches got him elected as President and some people just wanted to make history and didn’t care one way or the other. And now we have the repercussions to live with which will be going on for a very long time. God help us.

    • September 20, 2013 at 1:55 pm
      Nan says:
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      Baxtor, It has not been fully implemented yet! However, families with pre-existing conditions will no longer be denied coverage, children born with serious medical conditions are no longer limited in the amount of coverage (medical caps)and with the economy being what it is, young adults can stay on their parents policy until age 26 or they get employed and can purchase coverage. Here is MA, Romneycare (written by the right wing Heritage Foundation) is working for many folks. Although I pay 100% of the health benefit, I have had employees chose the MA Exchange because of the high deductibles and large co-pays that come with our group health plan. Once ACA is fully implemented some businesses will be surprised at the employees who chose to leave their current jobs because their family health insurance will no longer be tied to their employment. The freedom of citizens to take their health insurance with them will change the way big business works. Corporate America has no respect for their workforce as we can see. Go Obamacare… I will be able to sell my business and move around the country … FULLY INSURED!

      • September 20, 2013 at 3:00 pm
        FFA says:
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        There was a plan in place in Illinois for them people.

        • September 20, 2013 at 3:09 pm
          Libby says:
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          Are you sure? Adult children to age 26? People with pre-existing conditions that work and have an income?

          There may have been some type of plan in place for children and the indigent, but not those that worked and had an income and still couldn’t afford health insurance. If so, failure to pay medical bills wouldn’t be the number 1 cause of bankrupticies in this country.

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:54 pm
            FFA says:
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            I am not sure if it was till 26, but Blago passed something along the way where older children could stay on. I remember when the NFL was talking lock out / strike. There was an article in IJ that stated sports agents were advising the Pro Players to check into staying on the parents policy. So, it wasn’t just Illinois.
            Yes, ICHIP accepted Pre x Conditions.

          • September 20, 2013 at 4:17 pm
            Libby says:
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            ICHIP only applies to people on Medicare, people that have been denied coverage due to pre-X, those who have exhausted COBRA, or people that have lost their coverage because their employer moved out of state. It does not apply to ordinary working folks that don’t make enough to pay for health insurance.

            Only Obamacare is designed to help those folks. Those same folks like you and me. Hard working stiffs that either can’t or don’t have access to affordable health insurance coverage.

          • September 20, 2013 at 6:13 pm
            FFA says:
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            And more then 2X of my bill prior is affordable?

            ICHIP was for people that could not get coverage elsewhere. ICHIP has sky rocketed in cost over the past 48 months like all other health insurance has. I know several people that had to go that route.

          • September 23, 2013 at 9:27 am
            Libby says:
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            FFA – I don’t know what’a affordable for you or not. And since exchange rates have not yet been released in IL, your statement of 2x my previous bill is premature. Can we wait and see what the actual rates are going to be before we start jumping up and down that they are 2x before and are not affordable? Jeesh!

          • September 23, 2013 at 12:57 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, my current premium is more then 2x what it was just 24 month ago.
            yes, people that went on I Chip paid the full premium.

          • September 23, 2013 at 1:01 pm
            Libby says:
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            FFA – how does that have anything to do with Obama? If your carrier decided to increase your premiums, take it up with them. Obama didn’t have anything to do with it.

          • September 23, 2013 at 2:17 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby, the Cobra Give A Way caused an increase.
            My carrier is telling to brace for a 30% jump due to OBama Care.

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:27 pm
            Libby says:
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            FFA – I know carriers are BLAMING Obamacare for these increases, but I think they are using it as a scapegoat for price-gouging. As we’ve already discussed, carriers are lining up to sell coverage on the exchange and there is nothing but $$$ in their future because of it. Saying it’s Obamacare’s fault and it actually being Obamacare’s fault are two different things.

        • September 23, 2013 at 12:45 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          It’s called All Kids.

          http://www.allkidscovered.com/

          I wonder if this will go down the hopper with Obamacare being forced upon everyone?

          • September 23, 2013 at 12:58 pm
            FFA says:
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            From what I recall from the training, CHIP CChildrens Health Insurance Plan) will replace All Kids.

  • September 20, 2013 at 8:06 am
    Brokie says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Canada, UK, Europeans are not having this stupid conversation. They have top notch health care, including prescriptions and preventative care, surgery, hearing aids, etc because they resolved this issue decades ago when they went to a single payor system. The ACA doesn’t do enough.

    • September 20, 2013 at 2:31 pm
      Baxtor says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Brokie,

      Why do some Canadians come to America to get surgery and pay cash for it if Canada is so great? I understand it’s because they have to wait 6 months to a year for a surgery that they can get here with hours if not a week.
      Don’t get me wrong, there are always some things we can make better and there are a few items that are good. As stated keeping your kids on until they are 26, etc… but then again, is it really the governments job to force insurance companies to allow parents to pay for their adults children’s coverage and have the employers pay their portion as well? If it is, then maybe we should change the legal age of an adult from 18 to 26 and up the drinking age as well. I’m sure if that was the case, many would be up in arms. I’m just stating that sometimes the government goes too far when it’s really none of their business. Yes, it might be good policy, but is it in a free country? Isn’t this why people left Britian and other places to come here, for freedom, not government telling you what you have to do? That’s why I love America! (ps Hopefully I have no mistyped words like my last post. Oops, not instead of now.)

  • September 20, 2013 at 8:21 am
    ComradeAnon says:
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    One step closer to single payer insurance. Talking about unintended consequences!

    • September 20, 2013 at 9:24 am
      Libby says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • September 20, 2013 at 11:51 am
        Captain Planet says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        ComradeAnon –
        Do you really think so? Boy, I hope you are right! Finally, what I’ve been hoping for for decades may actually come true in this great nation of ours. Now, can we get a legitimate third party voice?

        • September 23, 2013 at 6:27 pm
          bob says:
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          I noticed you’re still replying to Agent, and another bob on this site who clearly was trash talking.

          So I know in light of that the only reason you don’t reply to me is you can’t win the argument ;)

          I mean really, how many times have you replied to extremists right wingers in this page? If you pay attention, I’m not at all as right wing as Agent or the other Bob.

          But more on topic on this statement: Oh boy? Get out of this country. It would not be a good thing. Good for some, dominating others, is not ok. No matter what, the option to buy insurance cannot be taken away. It is my right to choose to buy health insurance. The only way to do single payer is to take that away. That is not acceptable.

    • September 20, 2013 at 2:23 pm
      FFA says:
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      Comrad- Are you sure this was unintended?

  • September 20, 2013 at 9:28 am
    Swede says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Dave:

    That “unintended consequence” might actually end up being a good thing. Health insurance should never have been tied to employment in the first place. It will actually help drive up wages, because instead of providing medical insurance benefits companies like Walgreens will have to pay higher wages to compensate.

  • September 20, 2013 at 10:25 am
    Stush says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Well the gloves are off and now we know just how much American employers care about their employees. The job creators want us to thank them for “giving” us livlihoods but please turn out the lights when you leave because you ain’t gettin’ nothin’ anymore. As my old boss said, “the only one around here who is gonna get rich is me”. Good argument for calling it what it is, CLASS WARFARE but with the lower strata in the sights of the more well-to-do. Putin is right we aren’t exceptional but rather just have velvet gloves. the world no longer looks up to our not-so-great-country-after-all. Used to call it nobles oblige, where the better off helped out with the less well off….I know Jacob Marley is waiting for his curtain call….do we never learn?

    • September 20, 2013 at 11:36 am
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Class warfare is right! But it can’t last forever, because the little guys are going to rise up and protest being stepped on by the upper crust. We have all been relegated to the back of the bus and a civil revolution is coming. If only the Republicans could see they are in the same boat as we are! Only the richest of rich have all the power. The rest of us are SOL.

      • September 20, 2013 at 12:08 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Class warfare is right and it has been encouraged by this administration for nearly 5 years. When average everyday Americans see what is in store for them shortly with higher premiums, higher out of pocket expense, higher taxes, the revolt will be against this terrible law and the little guy will be protesting against the government, not the upper crust you hate so much.

        • September 20, 2013 at 12:28 pm
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          We’ll see, Agent. We’ll see.

          This government you hate so much is just a pawn of the upper crust I hate so much. They pull the strings and make the puppets dance. It won’t take long for people with brains to figure that out. You, on the other hand, might be a day late and a dollar short.

          • September 20, 2013 at 12:49 pm
            Agent says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Yes Libby, the upper crust George Soros has been making the Obama puppet dance for nearly 5 years. The 350 Lobbyists visiting the White House has too. What a swinging door that is. People with brains had this figured out quite a while ago. You, on the other hand prefer to be a lemming jumping into the pit to follow your leader.

          • September 20, 2013 at 12:59 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Sorry, Agent. Your rhetoric doesn’t work on me. I’m no lemming and surely am not following anyone off a cliff. The Koch Bros. have made just as many, if not more, people dance that Soros ever will.

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:00 pm
            InsGuy says:
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            You heard it here first from LIBBY, no less.

            Barry is nothing but a puppet. Couldn’t agree more

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:29 pm
            Libby says:
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            ALL politicians dance to the fiddle of those with the money, because money equals power. That includes all those on YOUR side of the aisle as well.

        • September 20, 2013 at 4:27 pm
          Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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          The ultra-wealthy in every human society have waged class warfare on everyone else all throughout history. Where have you been? Class warfare is nothing new. It’s just that now that more people are starting to stand up and speak out, the rich are suddenly crying foul, to the tune of “class warfare”. The current president is nothing compared to Ronald Reagan when it comes to waging class warfare. Ronald Reagan’s version was called “trickle-down economics”. 30 years have proven that it was just a scam to give more to the rich and take from everyone else.

          • September 20, 2013 at 4:50 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Shirley, after he cleaned up the mess left by your hero Carter on that huge recession, unconscionable interest rates, high unemployment, energy crisis and lowered tax rates for everyone, created IRA’s, 401K’s for everyone to take advantage of and added 9 million jobs, I kind of think trickle down worked pretty good. Your hero is creating trickle up poverty and has made the Middle Class the lower Middle Class. How is that a good formula for success?

          • September 23, 2013 at 9:31 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – there you go reinventing history again. Trickle up poverty? How about trickle down poverty? That’s Reaganomics at it’s best. You’re just too dumb to see it.

            Don’t trickle down on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

      • September 20, 2013 at 4:06 pm
        Patti Cake in the East says:
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        Class warfare has been around for decades, but never to the extent that this administration has brought it to. Also–let’s not forget the so-called war on women in this country that was totally fabricated by the current administration, as well.

        • September 20, 2013 at 4:21 pm
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Call it what you want, but legislative initiatives to limit access to reproductive health services, particularly birth control and abortion services; how violence against women is prosecuted; how rape is defined for purposes of public funding of abortion for rape victims; how workplace discrimination against women is treated; and litigation concerning equal pay for women are REAL issues for women in this country.

        • September 20, 2013 at 4:29 pm
          Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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          Reagan still has this administration beat when it comes to class warfare. The difference is that he was on the other side.

  • September 20, 2013 at 10:46 am
    FFA says:
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    Hard decisions are being made all over the place. If the cost is too much for the business, better to cut benefits then to close the doors all together. As far as compensating the employees to “go on their own” just drive up taxes to the individual as well as the business.

    Why is it I get taxed on my premiums when my employees don’t???

  • September 20, 2013 at 11:59 am
    Always Amazed says:
    • September 20, 2013 at 12:06 pm
      Libby says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • September 20, 2013 at 1:08 pm
        FFA says:
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        A tax hike looming to fund this thing is not in the best interest of ALL the people?? Less hours? Less Jobs?
        Is that in the best interest of people?

        • September 20, 2013 at 1:28 pm
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          That horse has left the barn, FFA. The law passed. The SCOTUS upheld it and it is going forward. These lame attempts to thwart it, defund it, repeal it, are all a waste of time. If Republicans are against it, the REVISE it, CHANGE it, make it better. Quit wasting time grandstanding. They fiddle while America burns.

          • September 20, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            As you know Libby, I am on board with helping implement this. Just my 8 ft x 2.5 foot banners. Picking up the proper permits from City Hall today. Town party coming up. Will have a booth set up. To draw extra attention, I am giving away hot dogs & bottled water. Last year, I drew 2332 visitors… People in the forum from both sides have provided vital links and information that bits and pieces will be on my web site.

            I know its a law and it is what it is…

            I don’t agree with this thing at all. In addition to the other reasons I don’t like it is this has renewed Class Warfare. The battle cry of the old commies – Boughwa vs the Proletariats’… It sucks to have a conversation – face to face or in a blog – to here the way that Americas top earners get bashed just because they live the American Dream.

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:05 pm
            Libby says:
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            I appreciate everyone’s right to their opinion on the legislature. My point is Congress should be trying to do something positive to improve it and not waste time on meaningless votes.

            Class warfare was in the making long before Obamacare. And many of America’s top earners made their money by fleecing the American people or out-and-out stealing the money from hard-working people. I’m sorry. But I do not endorse that as “living the American Dream.” I begrudge NO-ONE that works hard and is successful.

            Don’t confuse “top earners” with corporate thieves.

          • September 20, 2013 at 4:00 pm
            Agent says:
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            Here is the Republican Plan Libby:
            1. Allow interstate shopping for insurance to create competition between companies.
            2. Give Tax Deductions for insurance premiums currently limited to businesses & self employed and do it for everyone.
            3. Prevent Medicare money from being used to fund Obamacare.
            4. Stop the exemption of Congress and staff from Obamacare.
            5. Start high risk pools to lower cost for everyone else.
            6. Push Medical Malpractice Reform
            7.Eliminate Obamacare’s mandated benefits and let people decide what coverage they want.

            I bet all this could be done in less than 2,700 pages and 10,000 pages of regulations and at a far less cost.

          • September 20, 2013 at 4:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            Well, Agent, if Republicans were really serious about Healthcare reform (which they weren’t) they could have made all this happen when they had control of Congress. But they didn’t. So crying over spilled milk is very unproductive at this point.

          • September 20, 2013 at 6:17 pm
            FFA says:
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            And Libby, the doors of the barn are not even open yet. More and more are going to follow Walgreens.

          • September 23, 2013 at 9:32 am
            Libby says:
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            FFA – we have yet to see if that is indeed a bad thing or a good thing, haven’t we?

          • September 23, 2013 at 1:03 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby says: “FFA – we have yet to see if that is indeed a bad thing or a good thing, haven’t we?”

            Not so patiently waiting for 10/01…. All my questions and concerns will be addressed then (except for the tax hike).

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:52 pm
            Libby says:
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            What I mean is, we have yet to see if shifting the burden of paying for health insurance to the individual from the employer is a good thing or a bad thing. It will probably take a while for that to all shake out. I’m anxious to hear from you once exchange rates are released in IL to see if the premiums are more, less, or the same as they are now.

      • September 20, 2013 at 4:09 pm
        Patti Cake in the East says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        You know what true disgusting behaviour is, Libby? It’s a bill like this being passed in the middle of the night by moron’s like Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama.

        • September 20, 2013 at 4:24 pm
          Libby says:
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          PC – So you think it is totally acceptable for the House to be wasting time and resources drafting and voting on a bill that not only has no chance in hell of passing, but that they boast “was designed to put some Democratic senators on the spot”?

          That’s OK with you???

          • September 20, 2013 at 4:50 pm
            Libby says:
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            Who am I kidding? Of course you do!

        • September 20, 2013 at 4:59 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, How do you think Republicans could do anything about Healthcare when you had a belligerent Senate who trashes all their bills, the Democrats were unwilling to compromise on any Republican ideas and the arrogant attitude of a President who said We won, you lost so get in the back of the bus. The reform could have been done bi-partisan in a thoughtful way, but Obama and his crew wanted nothing of it and forged ahead with their Progressive Dream which is our nightmare. In fact, if Democrats want to compromise, why not amend the law and incorporate the changes I posted? The quick answer is they are not interested in deviating from the agenda no matter what the cost and what trouble it makes for the nation.

          • September 23, 2013 at 9:35 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            It’s THEIR agenda, Agent. Of course, they don’t want to compromise! It’s the Republicans that have a problem with it. It’s up to them to come with hat in hand and a proposal for change. Not jump up and down in the House crying and stomping their feet. You guys have the problem. Bring a compromise solution you can live with and let’s talk.

            Instead you waste everyone’s time and resources grandstanding like little kids. It’s pathetic to see grown men act that way.

    • September 20, 2013 at 1:57 pm
      Nan says:
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      Just more wasted time on stupid votes. Why can’t we citizens file legislation that would suspend the pay of Congress until they grow up and take care of ALL THE BUSINESS facing them. They are not earning the $170,000 plus health care, plus retirement, plus vacations…etc. They are laughing at us all the way to the bank. The new American royalty.

  • September 20, 2013 at 12:35 pm
    Always Amazed says:
    • September 20, 2013 at 12:41 pm
      Always Amazed says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      And we’ve been saying that about Obama for a long time now. He should be impeached – sending weapons to the “rebels” who are TERRORISTS is unconscionable but still you turn a blind eye.

      • September 20, 2013 at 12:52 pm
        Agent says:
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        Always, I believe that violates the Oath of Office of a President who knowingly aids and abets an enemy of this country. That is grounds for impeachment by itself, but I am sure there are dozens of other charges that could be leveled.

        • September 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm
          Always Amazed says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          That it is Agent, that it is and you know it.

          • September 20, 2013 at 5:50 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Always. One of my insurance buddies sent me a picture email you will like. Picture two women sitting on a park bench. One says – I love Obama because now I can get health care even though I am unemployed. The other says – Why are you unemployed? Then, she says – I got laid off because my employer can’t afford to pay for Obamacare.

            That is a good one to go home on!

      • September 20, 2013 at 4:10 pm
        Patti Cake in the East says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        I’m sure Libby doesn’t think that’s disgusting behaviour, Always Amazed…

        • September 23, 2013 at 5:35 pm
          Alwasy Amazed says:
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          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:13 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            Boy,the truth hurts.

            http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/precious-little-girl-dismembered-while-she-is-still-alive-by-obamas-psychotic-syrian-rebels

            Obama is supporting terrorits and should be impeached and you all still think he’s the best thing since sliced bread and you think that the conservatives are the ones wihtout compassion. Unbelievable.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            OMG Amazed. I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn that would be just perfect for you.

            You’ll fall for anything, won’t you? You really need to stop posting these links. They only show the world how ridiculously ignorant you are.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:55 pm
            Libby says:
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            Oh, and you wouldn’t know the truth if it came right up and bit you.

        • September 24, 2013 at 3:16 pm
          Always Amazed says:
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          Libby,

          You are living in a liberal bubble and have rose colored glasses on. Wake the blazes up. Do you not follow the news and what’s going on around the world? Do you know what just happened in Kenya? There’s a lot going around in the world and Obama and his minions have blood on their hands. We aren’t living in the land of rainbows and unicorns. You can’t hide from the truth because just like Obamacare it’s going to slap us all in the face whether you like it or not. We don’t have the money to even fund it and the government is almost on shutdown. Do you guys think money grows on trees?

          • September 24, 2013 at 3:39 pm
            Libby says:
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            Amazed – There has ALWAYS been alot going on in the world. You act like that is something new since Obama took office.

            Have you never heard of the Iran-Contra scandal, Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea, the Cold War and I could go on. All things that happened under Republican presidencies.

            Your extreme hatred and bigotry for Obama is over-shadowing your brain. You give him way more credit than he deserves, as you think he is behind every skirmish, battle, scandal, or highjacking that takes place around the world.

          • September 24, 2013 at 4:59 pm
            Always Amazed says:
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            Yes, Libby, I agree with you there these atrocities have been going on for a long, long time – but they only seem to be getting worse. I don’t hate Obama – I just don’t like the direction he has taken this country and I do believe he should be impeached. I believe he is trying to destroy our country from the inside out. We’ve been down graded, we were once a super power and now I believe the world is laughing at us. Our government is printing money that is worthless and we are almost 17 trillion in debt. And now we have to fund Obamacare. They took money out of Medicare to pay for this under the assumption that all the 20 and 30 year olds, who aren’t on their parents polices, which they can be until 31 years of age, are going to buy insurance via the ACP. What happens if they don’t? What if the premiums they used to have which was something like $128/month a while ago are now a lot more? Will they buy it or take the $100 fine?

          • September 25, 2013 at 8:36 am
            Libby says:
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            1. There are not more atrocities now than before, you are just paying more attention.
            2. Our money is not worthless and we are still the number 1 Superpower in the planet.
            3. The world is not laughing harder at us now than they did under Dubya.
            4. The money they took from Medicare did not affect benefits.
            5. Children can only stay on their parents policies until age 26, not 31.
            6. What happens if…??? On the flip side, what happens if this actually works? You can “what if” until the cows come home – but there are always two sides to a pancake no matter how flat it is.

    • September 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Read it and weep? Huh? Do you really think this could pass the Senate and get The President’s signature? They should go have another vote on the law while they’re at it. 42 times isn’t enough. Oh, and cut food stamps some more. We need to starve children some more. 47 million are now impoverished in this country and we continue to flood the money up to the top 1%. Just wait, it will trickle down. No, really, it will. It’s just going to take another 32 years. You wait…
      http://cheezburger.com/2814131200

      • September 20, 2013 at 12:57 pm
        Always Amazed says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Bleeding heart Liberals think that the conservatives all want our poor to just die off. You couldn’t be more wrong but you’ll only see the negative and never the positive. Conservatives give more money to charities then democrats do – why is that? If you guys are out to save the world and the poor wouldn’t your purse strings be a little less tightend?

        • September 20, 2013 at 1:43 pm
          Captain Planet says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Always Amazed wrote,”Conservatives give more money to charities then democrats do…”

          Source required! Otherwise, that’s just another Sean Hannity soundbite.

          • September 20, 2013 at 2:09 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            I did some research on this one and, unfortunately, everything I found supported that statement.

          • September 20, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            I can accept it if there is evidence to back up the statement. I am neither, Dem or Con, and give to many causes myself. One question though, are we talking Cons contribute more in terms of dollars? I’d like to know the number of Dems, Cons, and Inds that give to causes. It kind of makes sense Cons give more in terms of dollars. A majority of the top 1% of earners are Cons. They have more to give and are looking for tax write-offs. Unfortunately, a majority of the impoverished are not Cons, and cannot give to certain causes because they are trying to feed their families.

          • September 20, 2013 at 2:57 pm
            Libby says:
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            I think it’s all of the above. If you take out donations to church (which may or may not go to charity) liberals actually jump ahead a little.

            http://www.science20.com/news_articles/republicans_versus_democrats_why_some_people_give_more_charity-90603

            http://www.science20.com/adaptive_complexity/blog/whos_more_charitable_liberals_or_conservatives

          • September 23, 2013 at 6:51 pm
            bob says:
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            Planet,

            Did you really just try to argue that cons in the 1% are why conservatives as a whole give more money?

            I’ll pull up the study. Libby’s is an average study as well, but there is one in particular that compares the pay. You would be surprised to note: Democrats actually take the edge in earnings. This largely has to do with the amount of 4 year college degrees.

            I might add for Libby:

            Conservatives also give more of their TIME than liberals.

            As for Both of you:

            Interestingly, conservative agnostics who don’t believe in government gave the least time and money.

        • September 20, 2013 at 3:54 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Always, I am a member of the largest Baptist Church in my community. You can’t believe all the things they do for the disadvantaged. We even put up a couple hundred Katrina victims who came to Texas after that storm, fed them, gave them a place to stay until they got back on their feet. We have also opened several satellite churches to minister to people. Churches by far do more for people than any other charity. That is why I give my tithe to them to help them do good.

          • September 20, 2013 at 4:55 pm
            Don't Call Me Shirley says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            More than any other charity? I doubt it. Also, they use it as a good way to advertise and try to get more converts, which brings in more profits for the prophets. Those “charitable” preachers have some mighty fine vehicles; business is good. Join our cult and give us your money, and you’ll go to heaven. Is that how Jesus operated? ministering = brainwashing + scamming

      • September 20, 2013 at 2:39 pm
        Baxtor says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Captain Planet, the good thing though about the starving families is they will get to keep their iPhones and DVR’s. And still not have to take any drug tests. Win win!

        • September 20, 2013 at 3:06 pm
          Libby says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          That’s a stupid post.

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:28 pm
            FFA says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Like this whole forum isn’t??? Just another one of the same old same old with the same people – me included..

            So, to change the subject, big plans for the week end? Sarge – going to Ford Field? How about you agent? Heading into Dallas or Huston for a game??? Me, working….

          • September 20, 2013 at 3:47 pm
            Libby says:
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            Family in town for the big wedding shindig last weekend. Spending the weekend in Philly and then they’ll head back to Denver.

        • September 20, 2013 at 3:18 pm
          Hmm says:
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          So because some people abuse food stamps we should let children in this country starve? The system might not work perfectly, but that doesn’t mean there are not MANY people who depend on it to feed their families.

        • September 23, 2013 at 10:31 am
          Captain Planet says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Well, let’s drug test Wall Street and all of the corporations who receive corporate handouts. If you want to drug test the impoverished, you better be consistent and drug test the wealthy who receive the handouts, too.

          As far as the iPhone and DVR – yes, you are so right. Poor people who need food stamps have it great. Just living high on the hog.

          • September 23, 2013 at 2:21 pm
            FFA says:
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            I would go with that Cap… Could be the first thing I am on board with you 100%. If the govt is giving you assistance, PEE IN A CUP!!!

      • September 23, 2013 at 6:43 pm
        bob says:
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        Already did in the 90s, @$$hole.

        Top rate during Clinton’s presidency was less than half that of what it was 32 years ago.

        Was that just coincidence, @$$hole?

        Trickle down worked. Get over it, move on.

  • September 20, 2013 at 3:48 pm
    Agent says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    FFA, I will just be watching the Cowboys lose again and getting some golf in if it will just stop raining. We have been in near drouth down here and I think we are trying to catch up year to date in one day. When I do play, I am going to pretend the ball is the head of a liberal and I am sure to get an extra 20 on the drive.

    • September 20, 2013 at 3:51 pm
      Libby says:
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      Just picture my smiling face, Agent.

      • September 20, 2013 at 5:06 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Actually, I was picturing Shirley’s or Planets head. I don’t hit women. Boy, is Shirley going to get a big surprise when he/she meets the maker. Anyone who downgrades good works of a church is a despicable human being.

        • September 23, 2013 at 2:03 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          I wonder what your Baptist pastor may say if you told him you wanted to hit people in the head with a golf club. Probably what Jesus would do, huh? Besides, a good golfer knows it’s a game of opposites. If you want the ball to go far, you swing easy. You get mad, then you get tight, then the swing isn’t as fluid as its meant to be.

          I hope you hit ‘em straight over the weekend. I got a round in yesterday as well.

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:22 pm
            Agent says:
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            This coming from a guy who didn’t bother to go out and watch the pro tournament when it came to town. Wow, I can see what an avid golfer you are. What are you, one of those twice a year guys who thinks they should play well when they go out? I didn’t say I was going to hit it extra hard by the way. I always swing smooth to hit it far. I actually shot 72 with three birdies, so something was going right. Someone gave me a ball one time with Slick Willy’s picture on it. I teed it up and wore it out and when it became beat up, I deliberately hit it over the fence never to be seen again.

          • September 23, 2013 at 4:25 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            You’re right, I had to miss the tournament because on Friday I needed to rest up for the 20K race I ran on Saturday (gun went off at 7 AM, I was up at 4:30). Then, my 8+ month pregnant wife needed me around the house on Sunday, so didn’t get to catch the action. I had to turn down free tix.

            I’m a 3, by the way. I play as often as I can and more importantly, get to the range regularly. I started playing when I was 9 and I still have the same Ping putter I was using back then to this day (2nd generation Ping, doesn’t even have a model name printed on it).

            Good for you on the Clinton ball. You probably always had a good “lie” with that ball, huh? Hahaha…

          • September 23, 2013 at 4:28 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Solheim Cup to be here in Des Moines in 2017. I’m looking forward to it and hope Paula Creamer is still good enough to make the team then. She’s my favorite for what should be obvious reasons.

    • September 20, 2013 at 4:25 pm
      FFA says:
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      After I get done working, I got to go empty my parents house out. A sad day indeed. Cant pay the Nursing home and the electric bill so walking away from the house we grew up in, losing it to foreclosure. Sad thing is my parents don’t even know the status of the estate. Medicare taking all the money we have been able to accumulate for funerals. When my dad passes, we will be able to house my mom, but…. Loyolas last ditch effort failed. His heart is pounding like a 60 year old.

      • September 20, 2013 at 4:52 pm
        Libby says:
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        I’m really sorry to hear that, FFA. I went through the same thing with my grandmother. It’s very sad.

      • September 20, 2013 at 5:10 pm
        Agent says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        FFA, I still remember doing the same thing with my mom’s house after she passed. She was a pack rat and it took all four kids to take or dispose of all that and then sell the house. She was blessed to go when she did with several strokes and lying in a nursing home for 6 months in a semi-coma.

        • September 20, 2013 at 6:24 pm
          FFA says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          People have been offering up sympathy, but no words seem to make it any easier.

          My jack ass brother embezzled $1.375M and counting from them they desperately now need and that low life thinks he did nothing wrong. I know there is another IRA drained, I just have yet to find it.

          We don’t even have money for a proper funeral.

          Anyways, I get to wrap up the week end with a Sunday Night Bears Game!!!

          • September 23, 2013 at 10:38 am
            Agent says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            On a lighter note, your Bears did look good. That defense will carry them a long way. Cutler only has to manage a game and not commit silly turnovers and they will be fine. The Steelers just aren’t very good anymore and it shows with every game they play. Dallas actually looked pretty good, but the Rams aren’t much so it was an easy game. When they play someone good again, I expect they will probably lose. My prediction for 8-8 is still intact.

      • September 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm
        Agent says:
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        Planet, I was scratch until recently when I went up to a two because I can’t get out as much as I used to. I go to the driving range when my swing is off, otherwise if I have time to practice, I have time to play. I got some new Ping irons a few weeks ago and had them swing fitted. They are solid so I expect to start doing better again. You are right about Creamer. You should hope Natalie Gulbis makes the team again and you will get a double treat. They can really play as well as look very good to the guys.

        • September 24, 2013 at 9:10 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          I can honestly say, I’ve never got all the way down to scratch. The best I’ve ever been is a 1. 2 years ago, I worked with a pro to completely change my swing. He broke me all the way down. I’m loading the club more and the hip swing starts the down swing, something I never used to do. So, I still have struggles when old habits like casting the club come into the new swing. I’ve been fitted for my irons and driver. The driver fitting was huge! Ping Anser with Diamana extra stiff shaft, cut down half an inch. It added at least 20 yards to my drive. That’s on a toe ball. If I catch it, I’m seeing 40+ more yards. Unbelievable!

          I hear you on Natalie. Keep hitting ‘em straight!

          • September 24, 2013 at 12:23 pm
            Agent says:
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            Planet, I have never had a lesson from a pro and don’t plan to. I just observe the tour pros closely, watch the golf tips on Golf Channel on the instruction shows and glean what I can. My golf swing is a function of how my back feels. If it isn’t hurting and I can let it go, my swing is fine. When it is down in the lower lumbar, I have trouble releasing and it leads to bad habits. With technology in drivers, you can tailor loft, shaft to get a good fit. I have the Taylor Made Rockeballz Tour Adjustable set at 10.5 and it is a great driver. It is forgiving even on mishits and when I do hit it in the center, it goes big time.

          • September 24, 2013 at 1:08 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Back issues can mess up the swing, for sure. Just ask Fred Couples. I personally don’t mind working with a pro. I had lessons ever since I started playing. Just check into a pro every now and then when I lose my swing. Although, 2 years ago I was looking to vastly improve it. I rededicated myself to the game and the pro put me into the best swing I’ve ever had. He put me into my lowest score of my life, too. Granted, the putter was pretty hot, too.

    • September 23, 2013 at 1:05 pm
      FFA says:
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      So agent, how did that watch the Cowboys Lose thing work out? Blow you plan out of the water did it?

      • September 23, 2013 at 1:12 pm
        Agent says:
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        To borrow a phrase from Forrest Gump, with the Cowboys it is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get. They were playing the Rams and they are one of the worst teams in the NFL. Jerry Glanville once said that the NFL means “not for long”. He was right! It looks like the league is in transition now and traditional powerhouses are having some tough times. Who would have thought the Steelers, Giants and 49ers would be struggling like they are now?

        • September 23, 2013 at 2:27 pm
          FFA says:
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          Aint that the truth… Seem like the league has adjusted to the new style QB – Kapernick & RG0&3.
          I would have never guessed the Lions in 2nd place in our division. Bears battling for #1 with Green Bay was my guess.

          Cutler made a statement last night with his hit on that 1st down run. Guess when you don’t let him get pounded as in years past, he can dish it out…

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:13 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes, Kapernick & RG3 are both having issues winning games. It does take a good supporting cast to win and a good defense like the Bears have goes a long way. It takes balance on both sides of the ball and good special teams and then maybe you will have something. Players also have to have confidence in their coach knowing how to manage a game and putting a good game plan in. If Coughlin doesn’t get the Giants going soon, he will be out of there. They are just awful.

          • September 23, 2013 at 3:31 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’m getting on my Raider Hater gear for tonight’s game! Go Broncos!

      • September 24, 2013 at 5:29 pm
        Agent says:
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        Planet, I wonder who is disliking my posts on our golf banter. I have been liking yours when you stick to golf. I didn’t dedicate myself to improve until I was over 30. I had played tennis all my formative years and was good enough to play college tennis and the scholarship was how I got my education. Tennis is very hard on the back and joints so that led to my back issues. You are right about Couples. I have seen him play in person 5 or 6 times and he is great. I wonder if that Anatabloc is working for him. He has also had some treatments in Germany to try to straighten the back out. I have been curious to know what they are doing to him, but he still has trouble finishing tournaments and it has been bad for a long time.

        • September 25, 2013 at 9:18 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Agent,
          I don’t know. I honestly believe people like and dislike comments based on who is making them out here. I rarely vote at all. Fred is my favorite. He gave me a golf ball from a practice green at the Hardees Golf Classic way back in something like ’88 or ’89, before he was popular. I followed him around for the day. Calch gave me one, too. But, Freddy just looked cooler. A few years later, he’s number 1 in the world. I’ve always liked his attitude on the course. I sport the Ecco shoes like he does (except in wet weather, they tend to slip a little), and wish he’d consider playing in The Skins again. Greater Skins player of all time. I think Tiger called it the Donate-to-Fred Tournament, or something along those lines. Taking tomorrow off to play a minimum of 36. Should be a good day, high of 83. May be a bit windy, so the punch shot could get a workout. That and the short game. Hope you get a chance to get out soon.

          • September 26, 2013 at 12:27 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes, Fred is a good guy and I hope his President’s Cup team beats the International team again. I hope he puts young Jordan Spieth with Tiger. I think the Woods partnership with Stricker ran its course and Stricker failed badly at the Ryder Cup and didn’t help Tiger much. I think they discontinued the Skins game that Fred dominated so long. He did fine on a one or two round competition because he didn’t have to go 72 holes and deal with the back pain. I don’t mind playing in the wind since I cut my golfing teeth in Oklahoma where 20MPH is a mere gentle zephyr. I have played a lot of rounds when it was up to 30MPH and punch shots into it required imagination and about 3 more clubs than usual.

  • September 23, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    Jack Allen says:
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    What part of the fact that Obumacareless caused insurance premiums to go up instead of down like he said it would dont you democrats understand? He didn’t fix health CARE, he screwed health insurance! Where do insurance companies get their premiums from? Where do companies get their profit from? Where does the gov get their taxes from? THE PEOPLE. When prices go up for ANYTHING, who pays the cost of the increase? THE PEOPLE! Wake up AMERICA.

  • September 23, 2013 at 12:58 pm
    Libby says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    What part of this do you Republicans not understand. If the employer pays for health insurance, the price of their goods goes up and the PEOPLE pay. Instead, the PEOPLE help subsidize these premiums through taxes. It’s the same thing. Except now, more people will be insured which should make premiums go down in theory. Lower premiums = lower subsidies = lower taxes for the PEOPLE.

    Instead of EVERYONE paying through increased products and services to offset the employers cost, EVERYONE is paying through taxes. It’s just shifting the burden of providing coverage from the employer to the individual. I thought that’s something you Republicans valued – individual responsibility. Make up your minds already.

    • September 23, 2013 at 6:23 pm
      bob says:
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      Except now, premiums are raising 25% on average.

      In theory doesn’t matter to me. Having more people insured does usually help. Which begs the question:

      How did Obama make this law increase costs this much?

      You’re contradicting the very rates filed by insurance companies with your statements. Are you this delusional?

      • September 23, 2013 at 6:37 pm
        Agent says:
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        2,700 pages of Progressive BS with 12,000 pages of regulations. That is how you make the Unaffordable Care Act. No tort reform, no creating competition across state lines, give 3,000 Waivers from it from companies, unions and even Congress. When Congress got their waiver, that was the straw that broke the Camel’s back.

      • September 24, 2013 at 2:26 pm
        FFA says:
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        Bob, In the case of health insurance, its the sick people that will be flooding into the carriers causing higher dollar claims.

        • September 24, 2013 at 5:34 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, As reported by Newsmax, Rand Paul came out and said that John Roberts and the Supreme Court and all Federal Employees and Congress and all the waivers for companies and unions should all come under Obamacare. If John Roberts was not going to rule it Unconstitutional, he should not have a problem applying for coverage under the exchange. That should make Libby happy since she said we needed the law of large numbers to make it work. Add all these people in and she will have it. Gee, I wonder why all these people didn’t jump on board and take their medicine.

          • September 25, 2013 at 8:31 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – I agree that everyone should be subject to the same laws.

  • September 26, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    Agent says:
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    Good for you Libby. We shouldn’t have a portion of our society be exempt from the law of the land. As bad as this law is, everyone should be forced to experience it and pay the penalty for not getting it. Obama and family should be able to afford the Platinum Plan, don’t you think? I wonder if he would use a Navigator to help him through the app.



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