Federal Government Shutdown Effect on P/C Insurance Industry

By Andrew G. Simpson | September 30, 2013
Budget Battle

  • September 30, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    chasholman says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    I am so weary of the GOT’s antics.

    Watching the way the world markets have reacted the last few weeks, if we give them another year like they want, the uncertainty will have us all dead and buried alive. 2014 could not come soon enough.

    The odd thing is, much like how no matter what the polls said and was so obvious during last election, they demanded Romney will win the Presidency and had the whole base demanding they didn’t lose even after the election was over and Obama won by 5 million votes even taking some surprise conservative states. ‘They’ just refuse to get it, no matter what the cost to the nation or their party.

    They are inescapably daft.

  • September 30, 2013 at 1:27 pm
    DJ says:
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    Sick and tired of POLITICIANS…both side! Time to THROW THEM ALL OUT!! If any other business in the world tried to run like our federal government, it would of course be doomed to failure!
    THROW THEM ALL OUT…start over…rule 1…can’t be a career politician (term limits), rule 2, NO lawyers…if a bill is so complicated you have to be an attorney to draft/read/understand it, then CHANGE it (remember PLAIN TALK insurance policies??)
    All sides think they are right as they battle on and “WE” suffer. Just comes a time when we have had ENOUGH!!

    • October 1, 2013 at 9:28 am
      David says:
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      Unfortunately, throwing them all out is not a realistic option. What I suggest is electing politicians that are more moderate than extreme (on both sides), because then you’d at least get people who are willing to work together and more likely to solve problems rather than people who think “compromise” is a sign of weakness. People need to start paying attention and quit voting for people just because of the letter behind their name and whatever buzz words that they throw out that they supposedly stand for.

    • October 1, 2013 at 11:15 am
      Whodathunkit? says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • October 1, 2013 at 4:07 pm
      AverageYoungProfessional says:
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      The sad truth is how politicians have affected a large portion of my generation’s view of government. Its so knotted and extreme that we tune it out, kind of like TV commercials. Its the worst thing that could happen, but its the truth.

      • October 1, 2013 at 6:05 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey AverageYoung, I hear you on the tuning out of government. Our current government is the worst in my adult lifetime and I have been around to see much of history in the past half century. I think the young were misled into believing a slogan in 2008 called Hope & Change. How do you like that change now? If you aren’t angry about what has been going on, you would be officially brain dead. I encourage you to pay attention and join the chorus against this tyrannical government. Your future depends on getting involved and voting responsibly. Politicians are the best liars in the world and it is hard to sift out the lies and figure out who will do the best job for the country.

        • October 2, 2013 at 9:57 am
          Ron says:
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          Agent,

          What we really need are more Independents who do not vote the party line. Would you have the courage to vote for a Democrat if he/she was challenging a Republican and/or Conservative just to send the message that no elected official should feel safe in their job? Or would you just vote the party line and let all of those in Washington believe they are doing a good job because they keep getting re-elected?

          Do you honestly believe that the Tea Party and Conservatives do not bear any responsibility at all for the current dysfunction in government?

          • October 2, 2013 at 10:18 am
            Libby says:
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            In this next election, I’m voting the incumbent out – regardless of party.

          • October 2, 2013 at 11:20 am
            Ron says:
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            Libby,

            If everyone the same approach, we would clean up Washington and our representatives would start acting like our representatives if they like their job. Unfortunately, the Agents, bobs, Sarges, PMs, Pattis plus many Democrats of the world will just vote the party line because it is not their guy/gal that is the problem.

            News flash, if you re-elect your representative in the next election, regardless of party affiliation, then YOU are the problem.

          • October 2, 2013 at 2:59 pm
            Agent says:
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            Actually Ron, we need more Conservatives who don’t go along to get along and can take the leadership positions. Independents are a funny breed. They can’t seem to make up their minds who they want to run the country. Do we need that kind of indecisiveness from our leader? Do we need leaders with the right vision? Absolutely! Would I vote for a Democrat against a Conservative? Are you kidding? I might vote for a Democrat if they were a true Conservative against a RINO I didn’t like. I haven’t seen one in many years and the Blue Dogs that were coerced to vote for this Obamanation were promptly defeated in the 2010 mid terms in the great “shellacking”. Do you know of even one conservative Democrat currently holding office in Congress or the Senate? If so, please release his/her name to the others on this blog.

  • September 30, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    Libby says:
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    Daft is one word. I could think of a few more choice words myself.

  • September 30, 2013 at 1:43 pm
    Wisco Charly says:
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    I am so weary of folks who make statements that offend half of the readers. Leave politics out of the comments!

    • September 30, 2013 at 2:16 pm
      Becky says:
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      They’re the same as Congress…more interested in throwing insults than finding a solution. Guess what, everyone? There are no “winners” in these battles – we all lose.

    • September 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm
      jw says:
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      Not gonna happen. The topics are political; therefore, the comments will be along party lines.

  • September 30, 2013 at 1:52 pm
    Safety Guy says:
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    Isn’t there a reset button for congress???

    It would great if we could throw all of them out a once and start fresh with folks who decide what is good for the country and not for the lobbyist and their own pockets

    • September 30, 2013 at 1:57 pm
      Becky says:
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      Yes! My husband and I were talking about our government the other day and decided wiping the slate clean and bringing in all new people is the perfect solution. I’m tired of only getting to choose from the best of the worst – how about getting some people in there who care about our country instead of being career politicians?

      • September 30, 2013 at 4:18 pm
        Ron says:
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        Becky,

        To answer your question, “how about getting some people in there who care about our country instead of being career politicians?”, 2 reasons;

        1. Too much private money (lobbyists, high rolling donors & special interests) on both sides.

        2. Smart, quality people do not want themselves, their families, close friends, pastors, etc. to be put under a microscope or have to bow to the party leaders and/or donors that get them elected/re-elected.

        Until those 2 aspects of politics are elimintaed we will be stuck with choosing between dumb and dumber at the polls.

      • October 3, 2013 at 6:19 pm
        Agent says:
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        Yes, Becky. Choosing between the best of the worst is a terrible thing. Actually, some of the best people in the country would not dare run for public office for fear of being torn apart by the media and their opponent. We haven’t had good people in government in a long time. We are ill served and it is only getting worse and the country is more polarized than ever. I believe the folks need to participate and choose their leaders, but when you have to hold your nose when pulling the lever, that is a sad day.

      • October 7, 2013 at 12:52 pm
        InsGuy says:
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        Maybe if wasn’t a financial wind-fall to get elected, these smarmy grease-balls would stay out of the running. Why is their pay a lifetime stipend, full pension and full med benefits? $200,000/year? for working what, 100 days out of 365?

        Maybe we should get their status changed to hourly pay / part-timers?

  • September 30, 2013 at 2:11 pm
    Chuck says:
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    Every dollar the government spends from now until the end of the year is borrowed money. The only solution to this insanity is term limits. 8 years for the president and 8 years for every other political office in the country. And no fringe benefits for Congress, they must be a part of Social Security & Obamacare, and every law they pass must be instituted on them for 5 years before becoming mandatory for the rest of us.

    • September 30, 2013 at 2:38 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hey Chuck, According to the President, he is not incurring debt by raising the debt ceiling even if all the dollars spent from now until the first of the year is borrowed dollars. Almost half of every dollar spent by the government is borrowed dollars and liberals do not understand that very basic concept. They think the government has an unlimited credit card and the limit can just be raised so it can be spent. Can another credit downgrade be far behind?

    • September 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm
      Rick says:
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      You know you can vote your house member out every two years, the president every 4 years, and your senator every 6

      • September 30, 2013 at 3:35 pm
        Ron says:
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        Rick,

        You are correct. The problem is that, even with historically low approval ratings, 90% of Congressman/woman up for re-election in 2012 won.

        http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

        We, as a people, are telling these people that we approve of what they are doing where it matters, at the polls on election day.

  • September 30, 2013 at 2:31 pm
    jackie says:
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    Just another scare tactic from Washington as we all know they will never shut down just another media circus

    • October 7, 2013 at 11:25 am
      caffiend says:
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      Would you like some salt on that shoe?

  • September 30, 2013 at 2:34 pm
    Rick says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • October 1, 2013 at 2:39 pm
      ralph says:
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      I wondered why your comment was collapsed by the communitand then I saw the use of “Tea Baggers” and didn’t bother reading the rest of your comment. While not a supporter of the Tea Party (or a fan of Obama’s, for that matter), I think you really lower yourself when you have to resort to using slurs about either party (including “DUMBocrat, Libtard, Restumblican, etc)…if you honestly can’t make your point without the name calling, don’t bother making it.

      Fact is, most of us are in the middle and are just sick of all this liberal vs conservative crap. Abosolutely NOTHING is being accomplished by either party right now.

      • October 1, 2013 at 4:50 pm
        nomesaneman says:
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        Hadn’t heard “Restumblican” before.

        • October 2, 2013 at 12:51 pm
          jw says:
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          Kind of makes me think of an elephant on a ball.

  • September 30, 2013 at 2:41 pm
    Susan says:
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    I would be curious who are non-essential personnel and who are essential. The government is so bloated that this may be a good time to get rid of really non-essential people and dead wood. I am all for funding personnel who have all people’s safety at heart (agricultural inspectors, TSA, law enforcement (except many of those dopes in DOJ), etc. We need to take a look at each job for which I pay taxes and someone does not really perform a valuable service for me, then let them find work in the private sector.

    • September 30, 2013 at 2:44 pm
      Rick says:
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      Want to have the goverment save money?? Cut off all the welfare that means social welfare, crop insurance/subsidies welfare, foreign welfare,etc. If we did all that we would trim the budget by about 30%

      • September 30, 2013 at 5:20 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        Corporate welfare?

        And, are you suggesting we remove the safety net for those who truly need it? It is a small percentage who actually “work the system”. It’s not like being poor and having to use food stamps is a life of luxury.

        • September 30, 2013 at 5:26 pm
          bob says:
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          List some examples of corporate welfare.

    • October 1, 2013 at 10:00 am
      Agent says:
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      Susan, we could cut the Federal Government in half and it would still be much too large. It is one big self perpetuating monster that the people have allowed to get too big and we keep electing politicians who make it bigger every two years.

      • October 1, 2013 at 10:15 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        I agree with you that the government is way too large. I believe that there should be a required question to anyone running for any legislative or executive office that takes the position of “we need to make cuts”:
        What specifically will you cut from your district and/or state from the budget and how much will it save?

        Of course they would be advised of the question well in advance to do some research.

        I wonder how many candidates would answer the question honestly and follow up with those cuts if elected.

        • October 1, 2013 at 11:07 am
          Agent says:
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          Ron, unlike you who seem to have the time to do all the research in the world to analyze the size of government, all the departments, agencies, sub agencies, federal give a way programs ad nauseum, I have to make a living selling insurance. Suffice it to say that every department and agency needs a big cut. We could start with an across the board of 25% the first year and see where it takes us. For a government spending $1 Trillion more than it takes in, it needs some serious cutting. Of course, if we had policies that incentivized business and created real private sector jobs, we would have more tax revenue with new taxpayers instead of tax takers. The way it is going, government is dragging the country into the abyss of bankruptcy. After you do your research on where you would cut, you can post it.

          • October 1, 2013 at 11:43 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            So I guess you only have time to read Drudge and regurgitate Republican/Conservative talking points without researching for accuracy.

            If you had better reading comprehension skills you would have realized that I was not asking YOU what you would cut, only wishing that question was asked of the CANDIDATES who say we need to cut spending. Until politicians are willing to cut significant funding that their district and/or state receives, they will never be able to convince others to cut their funding significantly.

            Now do you understand?

          • October 1, 2013 at 2:56 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, I don’t apologize for being Conservative and never will. You, on the other hand have been mining government websites for your info and left wing talking points and think nothing of it. Do you really think you are getting accurate info from a government that has consistently lied just about everything from Benghazi, IRS, EPA, Fast & Furious, Obamacare, Debt Ceiling? I also don’t think you would get useful info from Huffington Post, MSNBC, Media Matters, Moveon.org, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, Reuters?

          • October 1, 2013 at 3:27 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I never asked you to apologize for being Conservative and I respectfully ask that you refrain from referring to me as anything other than an Independent. I am NOT a Democrat, Liberal, Socialist, Progressive, or undecided. I can make up my mind when I have sufficient information to do so.

            I only go to government sites because you will not give me any other source of data. You do realize that the people who gather, analyze and post statistics on those government sites are career civil servants and NOT political appointees, right? If they were only posting data and statistics to support President Obama, wouldn’t they make the numbers look better than they are? I would hope so.

            As someone with an Economics background, I need data and statistics to form my opinion, not talking points.

            Outside of CNN, how many of those other sources you listed have I cited? Answer:ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            How many times have I restated liberal taliking points? Answer:ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Are you going to apologize for misinterpreting my original reply to your post?

          • October 1, 2013 at 6:28 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            I don’t think that Ron said anything implying a liberal slant.

            If anything this is I believe the closest he has come to agreeing with you, or trying to imagine how a smaller government might happen.

            This would be a good opportunity to show him.

          • October 2, 2013 at 8:59 am
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            For some reason Agent does not want me to agree with him. Even when I do he would rather find anything to infer that I am a Democrat, Liberal, Progressive or Socialist. I am not sure why.

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:50 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            It’s probably because a lot of the time you do “sound like” (appear since we are online) a liberal who is trying to play moderate.

            I believe your recent commentary has convinced me otherwise.

          • October 2, 2013 at 2:00 pm
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            Thank you for finally understanding that I am not anything but an Independent. I know that I present a lot of facts that are not friendly toward Republican Presidents, but it is more to point out that neither side has a monopoly on being fiscally responsible and that results indicate that they are not that much different. Both have held the office during good times and bad.

            I know you will dispute that with your methodology, but results are results.

          • October 4, 2013 at 2:32 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            It’s not so much about making nice with him as showing that I will agree with him when he’s in the right state of mind.

            I will go to the website you mentioned, thanks!

        • October 1, 2013 at 5:57 pm
          Agent says:
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          How is that research coming Ron? How come you haven’t cited even your government sites to say how wonderful the economy is, how many jobs are being created, how we don’t have a spending problem, just a revenue problem. The Progressive’s in Congress and Senate will never cut anything. Haven’t you learned that by now? I can still hear their squeals over the Sequester fight. They were like pigs at the trough and someone took 1% of their food and the sky was falling. They are all about taxing and spending and that, my friend is why I am a Conservative.

          • October 2, 2013 at 8:57 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I only do research to make a point or refute one of which I do not agree. Please quote me where I said the economy is wonderful or that we do not have a spending problem. I have provided statistics indicating we have had net job growth each month since October 2010 and saw net job losses during each of the last 12 months of President George W Bush’s administration.

            http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001?output_view=net_1mth

            If you different data, please provide and cite your source.

            Show me one period of time in our histroy when Republicans or Democrats had control of both the Legislative and Executive branches and we had a budget surplus. That is why I am an Independent.

          • October 3, 2013 at 4:51 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, I know you are trying to make nice with Ron. I have noticed that he doesn’t tend to challenge your positions or tell you to name your sources of info. I guess he is reluctant to challenge your knowledge of the issues. He has admitted to going on government websites for his info thereby brainwashing himself that he is getting accurate info. If he truly is against Obamacare as he has stated, I have never seen him get hot about how bad it is. All I get is “for the record he is against the ACA”. So what! Give us the reasons he is against it and not the milk toast posts he is famous for. I hope both of you go to the National Review article I gave on their website. It will curdle the blood of a lot of people who love this country and see what the Progressives have done to it.

    • October 2, 2013 at 3:07 pm
      Agent says:
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      Susan, they say there are 880,000 non essential Federal Employees who are being furloughed. I hope they enjoy their golf and fishing vacation. I am sure any paycheck they miss will be made up when this is settled. Meanwhile, the sky didn’t fall any more than when we had the Sequester battle. It was really a poor move to try to barricade the WW11 museum which is open air and keep our great veterans out. I am glad the veterans removed the barricade and went on in. Let us see if the government will send the storm troopers out there to arrest them for trespassing. What a travesty.

  • September 30, 2013 at 3:01 pm
    JW says:
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    Seems like we still plenty of money flowing into the feds from our taxes…maybe they can just cut back like most of us and they will make it with what is comming in with our borrowing more.

    • October 1, 2013 at 5:13 pm
      Agent says:
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      Ron, you are so gullible about the Government sites you frequently visit to get your stats. Why do you think the Labor Dept routinely massages the unemployment numbers? These are by government bureaucrats with an agenda. Anyone believing this country has a 7.3% unemployment rate is delusional. Why do we have a workforce that is rapidly becoming part time because full time employment is just not there across the country? The labor participation rate has fallen about 3 points since Obama was first elected. I don’t know where you can go to get accurate information, but if you trust the government for your info, you are a fool. Observe what is going on and then make up your mind whether it is right or wrong. Common sense can go a long way and it is not too hard for me to discern when I have been lied to.

      • October 2, 2013 at 9:01 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        One simple question:

        WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR DATA AND STATISTICS??????????????????

        I have indicated several times that I am open to researching other sources, but you provide NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

        That is what makes you the fool.

        • October 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm
          Agent says:
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          Poor Ron, he just has to have a website to get his stats. No powers of observation, no paying attention to the real news of the day. With your vast knowledge of the internet, you should be able to find something useful other than the government websites or left leaning websites. You don’t trust Conservative websites that offer an alternative so you are just stuck in another universe. Try Cowboybyte or Human Events sometime. They have numerous articles by smart people and you can make up your mind then whether you agree or not. Michelle Malkin may open your eyes as well.

          • October 2, 2013 at 3:46 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            It absolutely floors me that someone with an Economics degree relies more on personal observation than actual statistics. I am thinking you should trade in your Economics degree for a Philosophy degree.

            Do you mean the left leaning Fox News, Forbes, Economist and Wall Street Journal that I have cited as sources. Are those also government sites? You are the one who will not get information from alternative sources other than Conservative leaning sites.

            What qualifies those people who write the articles for Cowboybyte or Human Events to be smart? Probably the same reason why lefties think Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz, and the writers for MoveOn and Huffington are smart.

            I did enjoy seeing Bill O’Reilly on the Daily Show the other evening. I like him because he is Independent, but leans to the right.

        • October 3, 2013 at 12:35 pm
          Agent says:
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          Try http://www.nationalreview.com and scroll to Oct 1 and the statistics you love on the 100 Unintended Consequences of Obamacare. Perhaps that will open your eyes about what is going on.

          • October 3, 2013 at 4:20 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            What part of I AM AGAINST THE PPACA do you not understand. How about provide the data and/or statistics I request to back up your assertions.

  • September 30, 2013 at 3:26 pm
    Celtica says:
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    If the Senate Democrats give in to the House Republicans, they let the terrorists win.

    • September 30, 2013 at 3:43 pm
      Patti Cake in the East says:
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      • September 30, 2013 at 3:51 pm
        Libby says:
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        No, PC. You’ve got it all twisted, as usual. It’s because of radical, extremist terrorists that the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and an airplane over a field in PA were attacked. You’re an idiot!

      • September 30, 2013 at 4:12 pm
        Sally Ann Fannymaker says:
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        Patti,

        George W. Bush was not a Democrat.

        • September 30, 2013 at 4:28 pm
          Patti Cake in the East says:
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          • September 30, 2013 at 5:02 pm
            PM says:
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            Patti,

            Don’t you see. Bush was in office when 9-11 hit. BO was in office during the worst recession since the great depression and an anemic recovery. If Bush is in any way responsible for 9-11, then BO is completely responsible for all the problems with the economy since January 2009.

            The logic of liberals.

          • September 30, 2013 at 5:08 pm
            Celtica says:
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            There you go with that potty mouth again.

            Lame, schlame. It happened on Bush’s watch. Bush even got a memo on Aug. 6, 2001 warning of Bin Laden’s intent in strike inside the U.S. What did he do about that to protect us? Not a thing, not a darn thing. I bet that is a very bitter pill for you to swallow. But swallow you must.

          • September 30, 2013 at 5:17 pm
            Celtica says:
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          • October 1, 2013 at 6:33 pm
            bob says:
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            Celitica,

            The recovery? The labor participation rate fell again in August. Full time labor subtracted from that would make it even lower.

            This has not been a recovery. If it has, why are so many people on welfare and food stamps? Why has that spending pretty much doubled?

            Obama does own this recovery, and he owns as well inflating back up housing costs, which he said somehow helps people.

            Guess what? It doesn’t. The 2008 housing crises was the result of housing prices growing faster than income. So inflating housing prices is not what we needed to do. We needed to let it bottom out, as Mc Cain said we did. Obama actually mocked him for stating we needed to let the housing market bottom out.

            Also: Bush is not responsible for 9/11. He was inaugurated January 2001, what law would he have passed to stop an attack in less than 8 months? I might add info was also given regarding an Al Quieda attack in Clinton’s presidency. The attack was planned for some time, is that Clinton’s fault then?

            No. It just happened. No one’s fault.

            You need to grow up and learn to research. You crave the attention of the insult tossing right, because they are the only ones you can dismiss their arguments by stating they have a potty mouth. *rolls eyes*. It’s very intentional. Maybe you should seek people who know their stuff, like me.

      • September 30, 2013 at 4:24 pm
        Celtica says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Dear Patti Cake, no amount of revisionist history will ever erase the fact Bush, a Republican, was in office when 9-11 happened. Like Ted Cruz, Bush was also reading a child’s book during times of extreme importance in our company. You would think Republicans would veer away from reading children’s books but noooooo….

        Remember our National Security Advisor, Condi Rice? She couldn’t picture jets with passengers slamming into buildings. Hollywood could — but not our Republican National Security Advisor — she was too busy preparing for the Cold War.

        • October 2, 2013 at 3:22 pm
          Agent says:
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          Yes, Bob. Clinton’s administration was attacked several times during his presidency with the first World Trade Center bombing, USS Cole, Kenyan Embassy bombings, Kobar Towers and all he did was bomb an aspirin factory in Sudan and lob a few cruise missiles into Afghanistan to blow up an abandoned training camp for Al Quida. They picked the right time to do 9-11, 8 months into a new Presidents term, didn’t they? The FBI & CIA did not share info with one another and that had been going on for decades. Had they been working together, this plot would not have worked, we wouldn’t have permitted Muslims to get flying training in this country because they would have been caught. It was a total breakdown of security in this country and that is what we got from this massive, inept government.

          • October 2, 2013 at 4:45 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – are you seriously suggesting that we ban people from pursuing an occupation, hobby, or interest based on their religious affiliation?

            You are the one that needs to be sent to Siberia, Comrade!

      • September 30, 2013 at 4:49 pm
        RICK says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        No, it was because of a puppet in the whitehouse who allowed the 9/11 attacks to happen so the goverment could finally have an excuse to remove all privacy from its people

        • October 1, 2013 at 7:23 am
          jw says:
          Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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          Wow, I hadn’t heard that one before. You must be new here.

          • October 1, 2013 at 10:03 am
            Agent says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Yes jw, Rick was formerly a part of the OWS crowd sleeping out in the parks in NYC until he decided to do some blogging.

          • October 4, 2013 at 9:53 am
            jw says:
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            Agent, how do you know that?

          • October 4, 2013 at 9:55 am
            jw says:
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            Sorry, Agent, I didn’t mean that to sound condescending or obnoxious. I’m just a little scared that you know so much about someone posting on IJ. It’s a little stalkerish.

          • October 4, 2013 at 10:58 am
            Libby says:
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            jw – that’s Agent’s way of trying to be sarcastic &/or snarky.

          • October 8, 2013 at 12:14 pm
            Agent says:
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            jw, I was being sarcastic about Rick’s misguided post.

      • October 1, 2013 at 2:45 pm
        Agent says:
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        Wrong attack Patti Cake. Perhaps you remember the first attack on the Twin Towers under Clinton where they set off a bomb in the basement. We could add the USS Cole, the embassy bombings in Kenya, the Kobar Towers in Saudia Arabia all under the watch of Clinton.

        • October 2, 2013 at 4:24 pm
          Brokie says:
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          You forgot to mention the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon when Raygun was in office. Just sayin.

          • October 3, 2013 at 4:25 pm
            nomesaneman says:
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            Remember the Maine!

          • October 8, 2013 at 12:19 pm
            Agent says:
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            Need some help spelling Reagan’s name Brokie? Yes, the Terrorists have been at bombing the infidels for a long time. Reagan did do some damage to Khadafi of Libya after he downed the Pan Am airliner over Scotland. He took out the command and control center in Tripoli and killed some of the relatives. Funny thing, we didn’t hear much more from Khadafi for many years and he didn’t let the terrorists train in Libya for a long time after that. He didn’t go after any Aspirin factories so I guess his intelligence was better then.

    • September 30, 2013 at 4:09 pm
      PM says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      The terrorist. The one who growing the deficit annually by $1.5 trillion plus over budget, or those trying to stop it. What future is beter for the US? The debt and increased taxes above 50% or changing now for a better tomorrow?

      The only question is do they have the backbone to stand their ground so my kids can grow old in the greatest country in the world or will they fall to the pressure of the media.

      • September 30, 2013 at 4:49 pm
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Both sides are wrong, PM. The House is holding the Senate hostage and vice-versa. THEY are the ones that are in charge of spending, the budget, and the debt/deficit. Blame the people that are responsible, not the one man that has no power over it. Your hatred is clouding your vision again…

        • September 30, 2013 at 5:28 pm
          bob says:
          Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • September 30, 2013 at 5:51 pm
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Obama cannot threaten a shutdown — the GOP owns that lock, stock and barrel — just like 1995.

        • October 1, 2013 at 10:55 am
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          I hate to tell you this, but your President has said he will not negotiate or compromise and Reid is his lapdog. Three separate compromises has been offered with No being the answer each time. I really like the last compromise that said Congress and staff, the administration, the Supreme Court should all come under Obamacare.

          • October 1, 2013 at 11:04 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            The POTUS should never compromise or negotiate with terrorists.

          • October 1, 2013 at 11:04 am
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent – compromise on what? A law that is 3 years old and passed the Republican majority Supreme Court challenge — and that is being implemented today?

            If you wanted to compromise, you should have waited until the debt ceiling negotiations. But no – your suicide bomber caucus is calling the shots and left you no alternative but to eventually cave in, lose face and be blamed by the public. That was sheer genius.

            As it is, your side is sucking the headlines dry with shutting down the government. Do you realize that you gave up the golden opportunity to have let the headlines be about the ACA implementation today — and the assumed resulting chaos.

            so — how did that work out for ya???

          • October 1, 2013 at 1:46 pm
            Captain Planet says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Oh, SNAP SNAP SNIPPETY SNAP!

          • October 1, 2013 at 2:49 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            When did you renounce your citizenship and to what country did you move?

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:46 pm
            bob says:
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            Celitica,

            A bill that was passed with Obama saying “you sit in the back”

            With a democratic majority, and what, was it 1 republican vote? (Snow) as I recall?

            That’s not bi partisan. By the way: It was ONE conservative judge that backed the law.

            That does not constitute (pun off of constitution) bi partisan.

        • October 1, 2013 at 6:26 pm
          bob says:
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          Celitica,

          He can’t? I thought refusing to pass the bills that congress is putting forward is the reason the government will shut down. Maybe you are too ignorant to register that the congress has control of spending, and Obama has yet to approve of a plan.

          Oh, the shut down of 1995? How did you like the economic growth from 1995-1998, and then the surpluses that followed?

          You’re 100% correct, republicans own that lock, stock, and key!

          ;)

          Try some more research.

        • October 1, 2013 at 6:35 pm
          bob says:
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          Obama can choose to pass the house plan rather than state he will veto any plan without obama care funded.

          It does go three ways.

    • October 3, 2013 at 6:26 pm
      Agent says:
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      Good Ron, I finally struck a chord in you since it is apparent you are angry now. Go to the article I handed you on a silver platter and you will get all the statistics you need. It is just full of statistics. If you are a closet liberal, you will probably discount it. I am waiting.

  • October 1, 2013 at 8:34 am
    Agustus Caesar says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Out with the Republic, bring on the Empire. Welcome “Princeps Senatus”.

    • October 1, 2013 at 10:40 am
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Hey Caesar, beware of the Ides of March and your so called friends.

  • October 1, 2013 at 8:55 am
    PM says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Celtica after the shutdown in 95, Clinton changed his deficit spending, Big Govt Supports all ways, Dems were run out of Congress in 96 and the country got back on back on track for one of the greatest periods ever.

    It is not federal govt’s responsibility to take care of us. Your family, your church, your non-for profits should be stepping up when people are in need. Many do, however they are not supported. That is the difference from receiving govt welfare. We need to stop the federal govt from deficit spending, raising taxes and preventing other public institutions from having the money to provide the support needed.

    As far as Libby’s comments, there not worthy of a response except to say I don’t hate and I don’t curse. You are out of line!

    • October 1, 2013 at 9:23 am
      David says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Democrats were “run out of Congress”? The Republicans only gained 6 seats in the house and 2 seats in the Senate. Please use proper descriptions when stating your position, because using extreme language makes you look as foolish as the politicians themselves.

    • October 1, 2013 at 9:37 am
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      PM, It is evident you have a burning hatred for Obama since you called him a terrorist among other names. It’s clouding your ability to think straight and makes you look foolish. As for cursing, I don’t care if you do or you don’t.

      • October 1, 2013 at 6:36 pm
        bob says:
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        IT is evident you have a burning hatred for Bush since you called him a terrorist among other names.

        It’s clouding your ability to think straight, and makes you look foolish.

        As for cursing, I don’t care if you do or you don’t.

        This is basically perfect for me to state to you. :) Thank you.

        • October 2, 2013 at 8:45 am
          Libby says:
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          Bob – I do have a burning hatred for Bush. But it is not clouding my ability to think, since he is irrelevant at this point. HE DOESN’T MATTER.

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:32 pm
            bob says:
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            Oh he matters when it comes to you telling another person that their ability to think correctly in politics is reliant on his hatred for another candidate.

            You only voted for Obama and approve of Obama because of your hate for Bush.

            Now you’re accusing this other person of only being against Obama because he hates Obama.

            If you’re going to use it to discredit another, I believe that it sufficiently discredits you.

          • October 2, 2013 at 1:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            Not the same thing at all. For one thing, Obama is currently the POTUS. Bush is nothing. Her judgement is clouded regarding current events because of her hatred for Obama. Bush has no effect on my ability to reason regarding current events.

            My voting for Obama had nothing to do with my hatred for Bush. I voted for Obama because his social values are in line with mine and Romney’s weren’t. Period.

          • October 3, 2013 at 12:29 pm
            bob says:
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            “social values”

            So then we are back to you agreeing Obama is wrong for the economy.

            While I don’t mean to start the “social values” debate again, which values is Romney against?

            Gay Marriage? Obama just changed his mind on that (regarding federal laws) and before hand didn’t agree with it. He still hasn’t passed anything on it. Regardless, gay marriage should remain a state issue. And regardless of that: In Washington state, republicans are only against one for of a bill that passed. They actually passed the democrat law minus 2 sections, one that required it to be put to vote from the people, and one that would remove a section that stated any fees charged by religion for ceremonies etc would open them up for a lawsuit. Republicans, are not, against gay marriage or gays.

            So now that we are off of that, Abortion and birth control: this is the same as the gay marriage issue, leave it to the states to decide the levels of funding and details. Regardless of that, republicans are primarily against 3rd trimester abortions. If you are for these, I don’t care about religion, I care about science. I have felt both my children kick in their mother’s womb at 6 months. They can be born and live a normal life. It is murder, it is evil, it is wrong. Outside of that, republicans don’t believe in the (economical) aspect of putting birth control as being funded by public areas (same with democrats I might add) or by passing that by having it covered on private insurance (thus raising the costs of a FIFTEEN dollar a month charge). The birth control coverage is wrong morally and economically.

            On social issues Romney was in no way inferior to Obama, nor or republicans. Your side just labels, and divides. You were the party of segregation. Divide and conquer. Not much has changed, just the subtleties and the semantics. Team, class, race, war. That’s all it is.

          • October 3, 2013 at 2:10 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – be careful jumping to so many conclusions, you may pull something.

            Because I voted for Obama for social values means only that. It is not a comment on the state of the economy.

            Say what you want about Republicans, but most of the far-right (Tea Party and Fundamentalists) ARE against gays, birth control, abortion, women’s rights, etc. That is not the party I want in power in this country.

            Not to mention Romney’s true feelings about 47% of Americans. What an arrogant a-hole. He most certainly wasn’t getting my vote after that.

          • October 4, 2013 at 10:10 am
            jw says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            bob, I don’t know any republicans/conservatives in your state, so I’m actually surprised they voted for gay marraige. You didn’t state if Washington republicans are anti-abortion or just against late term abortions. (totally off topic — I will agree that any abortion after 26 weeks is abhorrent. I don’t think women should get an abortion after 20 weeks. I think 20 weeks is plenty of time to figure out you’re pregnant and make a decision.)

            Republicans in KY are against anything that is not allowed in the bible. I’m serious, the political ads here are very faith based. These repubs are against alcohol, abortion, gambling and gay rights of any kind. They want laws to prohibit these things.

            So, that’s why I equate republicans with the bible.

          • October 4, 2013 at 2:40 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            You said it was social issues, so I have to assume you meant he was not strong economically which he isn’t.

            On social issues, I didn’t “assume” I listed issues. Learn the difference, but on a more adult note please note: You do in fact have opinions on the areas I highlighted, they are the only social issues, so again, rather than trying to win on points of style or stating that I assume to earn points, let’s stay on the facts shall we?

            Moving on: Roughly 15-20% of Americans are far right. How do I get that math? That’s the amount difference from democrat to republican in that link I showed you and JW before believe in creationism, aka far right beliefs.

            More importantly is the amount of Liberals who are far left. The reason I’m not democrat is the amount of far left liberals far outrank the far right. Not to mention liberals vote per their party lines more often than republicans. I don’t like one track minds. Factually, democrats in office vote more like this, democrats who vote also are less likely to deviate from or be displeased with their party, etc.

            I don’t follow. I don’t follow someone because he has a “d” which again, if more democrats approve of their party it’s not because they are better (since I know better with my research and have proven again and again they are not, while you try to rely on social issue labeling opinions) the only possibility for this deviation to exist since 1930′s, is that democrats have a mindset that is much easier to manipulate, dominate, and are one track minds dominated.

            You think that of the far right, then you neglect to note the far right is the vast minority.

          • October 4, 2013 at 2:42 pm
            bob says:
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            JW:

            Good for you on Kansas. Now let’s look at republicans in California, Oregon, Alaska, Washington, Montana, Idaho, and several others.

            I know my demographics. The vast minority of republicans are that way.

            The TANGIBLE affect (not the imaginary one that you fear will occur socially if republicans get power) of the liberal is already in affect, is real, and needs to be stopped.

            Get rid of the devils you know. Ever heard the phrase? It’s actually a religious one, but I’m using it for the topic at hand for the sake of irony.

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:22 pm
            Libby says:
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            “Get rid of the devils you know. Ever heard the phrase?” I believe you are referring to the phrase “Better the devil you know.”

            This is the shortened form of the full idiom, ‘better the devil you know than the devil you don’t', and means that it is often better to deal with someone or something you are familiar with and know, even if they are not ideal, than take a risk with an unknown person or thing.

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:26 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – why do you insist on being so rude? You DO make assumptions and put words in people’s mouths ALL THE TIME. And you especially take it to heart when trying to “prove” your demographics. You leap from one conclusion to the next based on nothing but your firm belief that you are right.

          • October 4, 2013 at 7:34 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Based nothing but my belief that I am right?

            EXCUSE ME?

            Tell me now what you believe of the republicans again on social issues?

            JW was smart enough to realize that there are states that are bad, (she listed on that I agree on, I believe it was that same state that tried to require you to have an ultra sound if you were going to have an abortion so you would see the baby) You aren’t.

            I ONLY and I mean ONLY base my numbers in fact. Every demographic I have ever listed I can and have backed up.

            Why do I have to be so rude? I don’t tolerate passive aggressive BS which you have been doing. Making #@%@ smell like roses doesn’t fly with me while labeling.

            On the devil you know: I’m aware. Perhaps you aren’t aware it is used extremely commonly in Catholic church. It has definitely been said more by religious folk.

            I also do not put words in anyone’s mouths. You just act like a coward and often make implications without making the statement itself.

            For example: You didn’t vote for Romney due to Social issues.

            We already talked about all of those social issues. Every single one.

            You made a demographic assumption with no evidence whatsoever that republicans are against gays. So, pot, meet kettle, only with me, I don’t make those assumptions without demographics. I provide EXAMPLES of republican backed gay marriage bills! But you know, that’s no proof at all, you freaking arrogant punk.

            Oh and by the way: THAT’S why I throw insults at you, you condescending brat. You have the nerve to call me arrogant and say I have no evidence while ignoring my evidence, that took HUNDREDS of hours of research.

            STOP FEIGNING MY LEVEL OF RESEARCH. IT DOESN’T COME OFF OF MY EMOTIONAL FEELINGS, BIGOTED FEELINGS ABOUT REPUBLICANS, OR OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WITHOUT RESEARCH LIKE YOU.

            And it’s darned evident libby. When you research it is easy to spot someone who does not.

            That is why Ron said I made a good case against democrats, without really having to ask for my sources on my argument (though part of that is I refused to post the sources AGAIN). It was just darned clear every item was accurate. With you, there are holes every time. Where was Osama found again?

            Get over yourself. I’ve never made a mistake that bad just because of how I “felt” on an issue.

    • October 1, 2013 at 10:51 am
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      PM, I don’t think Democrats were necessarily run out of Congress. They lost seats and Gingrich ruled as Speaker with the majority. He did institute the Contract with America which did not permit Clinton to continue with deficit spending. They shut down the government for a short time until Clinton saw the writing on the wall and then he agreed to the balanced budget and proclaimed it was the end of welfare as we knew it. A funny thing happened after that. The economy just took off and grew at 7.2% for the remainder of that year. Jobs were created by business and suddenly Clinton was hailed as the leader who fixed the economy. He was at least pragmatic and saw his plans were not going to make it so he finally did the right thing and agreed with good fiscal policy.

    • October 1, 2013 at 11:11 am
      Celtica says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      PM: You are thinking of the 1994 congressional election — which caused the 1995 shutdown. The difference there was that there was negotiating room in the budget which allowed all sides to save face. The 1996 congress saw humbled Republican platform because of the shutdown backlash.

      That also allowed ALL sides to work together in what was a high point in our ecomnomy. If we are ever to see this again, all sides need to work together — but the Tea Party will not allow it. What is happening now is a Republican vs. Republican fight.
      All the Democrats need to do is watch your side fight it out.

  • October 1, 2013 at 9:22 am
    Captain Planet says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    I guess those whose families are already poor or dead(didn’t win the lucky sperm contest), don’t go to church, and live in areas non-profits fail to reach are just SOL, huh? Hey, that’s what Jesus would do, tell them too bad and better luck next time. Wasn’t there a sermon on how to turn a blind eye to the poor and feel righteous about it? The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus, maybe?

    • October 1, 2013 at 10:09 am
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Hey Planet, your comments are reprehensible. I am sorry you had a bad experience with religion, probably at an early age, but you can keep your church hatred to yourself. No place for it on this site.

      • October 1, 2013 at 10:25 am
        Ron says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent,

        First, another example of poor reading comprehension. Where in his post did Capt Planet express hatred of the Church in his post? He was mocking those that think they follow in Jesus’ footsteps, but their actions indicate otherwise.

        Second, way to try to suppress someone else’s freedoms. Last I checked, Freedom of Speech is in the Constitution. Try reading it sometime.

        Finally, if pro-Church expressions are acceptable, then so are anti-Church expressions.

        Welcome to the United States of America.

        • October 1, 2013 at 10:45 am
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Another poor comment coming from Planet’s buddy. Planet has consistently mocked religion and churches for several years. I don’t care if he is an atheist or not, just leave out the Christianity mocking. It does not make him look good and in fact, makes him look stupid.

          • October 1, 2013 at 11:01 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent – Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? Captain has never mocked Chrisianity.

            Making such a simplistic and idiotic statement as “Your family, your church, your non-for profits should be stepping up when people are in need.” deserves to be refuted. What if you have no family? What if your church is as poor as you are? What if there are no non-profits in your neighborhood willing or able to help? This is REAL LIFE for many people. I know you only care about the folks in your neck of the woods, but some of us have a broader vision of what reality is for many Americans.

          • October 1, 2013 at 11:14 am
            Celtica says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Agent:

            One of the issues with the Tea Party thinking is that if you are not on their side, then you are against EVERYTHING — including the proverbial kitchen sink of religion, morals, ethics, finances, et al.

            You – they — need to separate it out.

          • October 1, 2013 at 12:04 pm
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Celtica – Agent can only think in terms of “all or nothing”. He has no insight or empathy and struggles with the concept that “there are always two sides, no matter how flat you make the pancake”. Feel sorry for his wife!

          • October 1, 2013 at 6:43 pm
            bob says:
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            Planet has quite explicitly mocked religions (when affiliated with the right).

            Agent doesn’t make up anything. Stating that you are talking of a sect of religion when you state that the religious right hates gays, and stating that a certain sect of the religious tiers resulted in slavery, is hating on religion.

            He has clearly stated that the religious right, through the use of religion, promoted slavery. I don’t care if he thinks it is the right, it he didn’t think religion had anything to do with that, he wouldn’t tie in the word “religious” with right.

          • October 2, 2013 at 8:51 am
            Libby says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Bob – mocking “the religious right” is not the same as mocking “Christianity”.

            One is a fanatical group of self-righteous zealots that have nothing to do with the worship of God or Christ and everything to do with cramming their version of “religion” down everyone elses throat.

            We have freedom of religion in this country and that includes freedom FROM religion as well.

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:36 pm
            bob says:
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            Again Libby, no, it isn’t.

            He puts just as much emphasis on religious. He has talked about religion’s affect on slavery.

            It was not just right, or just religion. There are non-christian right voters. He specifically states, religious. He could just as easily say the right wing zealots, as he himself admits, these right wing religious zealots he mentions are NOT true Christians.

            Then don’t apply the word christian with it.

            He’s still labeling an entire sect of people (the right) even removing religion, and is wrong (about gay marriage) regarding the right as it is.

        • October 1, 2013 at 6:40 pm
          bob says:
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          Ron,

          Actually, he also stated that those who don’t go to church are SOL. He mocked those who don’t practice jesus type material, but he very clearly also labeled the right as targeting and not helping the non-religious.

          “I guess those whose families are already poor or dead(didn’t win the lucky sperm contest), don’t go to church, and live in areas non-profits fail to reach are just SOL, huh?”

          Special note on: “I guess those whose families don’t go to church are just SOL, huh?” (remove the other sections, which you can do as the SOL applies to all on the list) and that’s what you have him having clearly said.

          • October 2, 2013 at 8:52 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – it was a question not a statement.

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:33 pm
            bob says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            Libby,

            I question that was clearly asked rhetorically.

            Grow up Libby. When Planet is being an @$$ he is being an @$$.

          • October 2, 2013 at 1:21 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            It’s called sarcasm, Bob.

          • October 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Let’s try not side stepping the message.

            That sarcasm, rhetorical comment, was directly linked to tying the fact that I guess if you don’t go to church religious folk won’t want to help you like their religion requires of them! I understood the freaking sarcasm and intended irony of Planet. Too bad it’s a fairly common comment among liberals, who think they have only just now thought of it. Oh SNAP! Planet thinks he just reinvented opinions on religion.

            But back on point: When you say the poor or dead or those who don’t go to church, you are clearly stating that those who do go to church go against those who don’t. If it wasn’t a large sect, a large religious sect, he wouldn’t attach the word “religious” and try to call it out.

            The vast MINORITY of religious and or right are what he states.

            Let’s go to a study, say the one that says republicans give more time money and blood on average. So do most religious republicans say you’re out of luck if you’re sick old or non-religious? NO. Planet is either missing the mark entirely on demographics (as I’ve told him he has) or he has an underlying issue against religion (which it is clear that he does, probably a parental figure that he applies to all the religious right).

          • October 3, 2013 at 2:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – Your reading comprehension leaves alot to be desired. Captain’s comment was in DIRECT response to the post “Your family, your church, your non-for profits should be stepping up when people are in need.”

            “Your church” can not step up and help you if you don’t GO TO CHURCH.

            And Republicans do give more, mostly through contributions to THEIR CHURCHES.

            Now do you get it? He was saying “what about people that don’t have a church?” Are they just SOL? Who helps those people?

            You need to get over your hard-on for Captain.

          • October 4, 2013 at 10:32 am
            jw says:
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            bob, I get that your state has a different breed of republicans than my state.

            I’m guessing that many other people posting here against the republican/religion connection live in states like mine. In KY there is no separating the republicans from the religious right.

            Please try to understand that not all republicans are like the ones in Washington state.

          • October 4, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            The vast majority of people in churches, help those who are not a part of their church.

            Are you trying to forget that in the 1960′s the primary provider of healthcare funds was the catholic church?

            The primary source of low cost psychology is also the catholic church in current days.

            Perhaps you missed that when I state: He is stating that non-religious people will be at odd of the non religious, due to the non religious not helping those outside of their religious sect, that I mean it.

            My reading skills are fine. I’m reading “into” Planet’s childish mindsets, rather than his immediate message. I’m going beyond it.

            Further: My hard on for planet? My issue with him is he is what is wrong with this country, and he needs to be completely humiliated in public as much as possible, so people know that he’s wrong, a divider, and that he will never have an influence ever, so long as productive people exist who will unite religion and people.

            He’s a piece of garbage, and deserves it.

      • October 1, 2013 at 10:59 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Agent,
        I practice Christianity and attend a Lutheran church as regularly as my life will allow. I was raised Catholic but did have problems with that particular faith. I’ve spent time meditating with a Mala as well. In a way, I’m multi-faithful. I even have researched some Native American faiths and like the belief of returning to the Earth. Though, I certainly believe in Jesus Christ. Much like speaking different languages, I feel one can understand and practice pieces of different faiths and learn to speak to God in a multitude of ways. I’m just saying, not everyone does practice a faith. And, they have every right to either be an atheist or simply not choose to go to church and worship in their own fashions. This is America, freedom of expression. God can be found in many areas outside of a building. The golf course, for example. Or, on a hike, or watching a sunset from a beach or sunrise from a mountaintop. Worship does not need to take place in a building.

        • October 1, 2013 at 2:38 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Planet, please don’t try to deny that you have repeatedly mocked Christianity on this site on a number of occasions. I have not noticed you mocking Islam at all. If you have, I haven’t noticed it. Someone who says they believe in Jesus Christ does not go out of their way to mock him. Leave your comments to political or insurance issues and you will get along with me a lot better.

          • October 1, 2013 at 2:48 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I noticed that you have yet to post any comments on the “Poll: 72% Oppose Government Shutdown Linked to Health Care” article. I figured since it was based on poll numbers, you could provide expert commentary.

            Oh wait, it goes against your narrative. Never mind.

          • October 1, 2013 at 2:49 pm
            Captain Planet says:
            Hot debate. What do you think?
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            What? I’ve mocked Supply Side Jesus, as I have again above. But, I’ve never mocked the real Jesus Christ. I just don’t expect everyone to follow Christianity. I’ve used the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a means to try and show the Evangeli-crazies there are more beliefs out there than theirs. But, that is all. Why should I mock Islam? That makes absolutely no sense at all. I’m not a bigot nor am I racist.

            You are mistaken or taking me completely out of context if you think I have mocked Jesus. Again, I am a Christian. I follow His ways. That is why I want my fellow brothers and sisters to have healthcare and nutrition. Can’t really pursue life, liberty, or happiness if you are sick and hungry. And, can’t pursue those inalienable rights if you are being discrminated against, either. And, yes, I mean not only color but LGBTQ.

          • October 1, 2013 at 5:36 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, why is the latest CNN poll reflect 37% for and 58% oppose Obamacare? Since you love CNN, can you account for that poll?

          • October 2, 2013 at 9:10 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Why do you answer my questions with a question? How about you provide some answers.

            Should we ignore the fact that a polls shows more people are against the House’s current strategy to defund the ACA than those who are aginst the law itself?

            I am not sure why you keep bringing up the polls showing how many people are against the ACA. Count me in the 58%.

            Please tell us when we should pay attention to polls and when we shouldn’t.

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:43 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            I’ll answer some:

            The polls are indicative of a bias against the right, if anything.

            After the 2008 election, it was clear Obamacare was not approved, this was shown in the republican victory in the house (even after the destruction to the party after Bush W).

            Knowing what the polls mean are important.

            Here are a few worth noting:

            The bill was so unpopular (obama care) republicans got back into office.

            Obama won originally due to Bush being blamed for the recession.

            No one wants a shut down tied to Obama care, of course, but people also seem to not get that the congress is the one who is supposed to pass budgets. If they don’t include Obama care, well, they don’t have to.

            Obama cannot just veto every spending bill, and then have the majority of Americans blame the republicans without a bias existing. A bias that needs to be fixed.

            Basically the democrats need to get trounced for the next 40 years, like the republicans were, in order to create the equivalent of the 1995 republican congress, who basically gave us the best expansion in history (after Clinton also forced a shut down)

          • October 2, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – a bias exists against the right for good reason.

          • October 3, 2013 at 12:47 pm
            bob says:
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            Oh really Libby?

            A bias for what reason exactly?

            Gingrich had to force Clinton to agree to balance the budget in 7 years in the shut down of 1995. Then Clinton got the credit?

            The economy grew as a result of that balanced budget, then Clinton got the credit?

            Are you serious? The bias exists for no reason.

            The housing market collapses due to housing costs growing faster than incomes. Then we blame Bush W for the incomes, ok, I’ll allow that, but then we don’t blame Obama who literally stated that the housing market should not bottom out, and then re inflated housing costs to as close to pre 2007 levels as possible, even while the income FELL after inflation? But this re-inflation is good right?

            Those two bias’s are not with reason, and are wrong.

            How about the civil rights bill of 1957? Democrats got into office for that 40 year time period PRIMARILY FROM WINNING THE BLACK VOTE FROM CIVIL RIGHTS so if there is no bias, then why didn’t the civil rights bill of 1957 gain traction? Oh right, BECAUSE IT WAS REPUBLICAN.

            You know nothing about bigotry that goes on against the right, you know nothing about suffering for having a belief, because democrats have NEVER suffered in modern history from any stance on the economy, or social issues. They agreed with segregation and they got to be called the party that progressed blacks?

            Bias with reason?

            Don’t make me fume you worthless human being!

          • October 3, 2013 at 2:28 pm
            Libby says:
            Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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            Like most Republicans, you just don’t get it, Bob. The bias is based on PERCEPTION. And the Republican party has done NOTHING to change people’s perception. In fact, they have done everything possible to make it more negative.

            Get your shit together as a party and turn it around if you don’t like it. Calling me a worthless human being only proves that the perception has merit.

          • October 4, 2013 at 2:51 pm
            bob says:
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            And your perception, you worthless human being,

            Is to spread crap about the right.

            It is not the right’s fault that people blame them for these things, it is the left.

            Ergo, cut off the head of the snake. I’ve seen you spread filth on here about the republican “image” to validate it. Don’t tell me it’s the republican’s fault like a bully.

            You don’t know hardship. You’re a coward. Rather than address the fact that what you believe about republicans is bigoted, rather than look at the real world examples or direct any of my examples you just state it’s the republican’s fault for not advertising better? For being honest which happens to not have a very good reply from the media?

            F#@% you. Seriously. You are a horrible human being if you’re going to continue to bully the right and blame them for the image you spread like swine.

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:37 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – if your post is any reflection on Republicans, I respectfully rest my case.

          • October 4, 2013 at 6:54 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            If your replies, and your bigoted pushes of stating how republicans are cave men on social issues, while stating it’s their fault they have that image is representative of democrats I rest my case.

            What I just said does not bolster your argument of republicans having a bad image on social issues. If your opinion is that me getting mad about your bigoted views is merit for believing them, you again, are a piece of trash swine, are a worthless human being, and are a bully. Cut off the head of the snake.

            I will not say thank you sir may I have another, and just go sit in the back of the bus, like your party expected of blacks in the 50′s with segregation. As I said before: Your party is good at it, it doesn’t make it right. Our party is very direct, rather than passively aggressive trying to force our ideals, and you mirror your party very very well Libby. It’s just too bad you’re dealing with a very adult forward person, who calls you on this crap every time, and then says “nice try, you’re a bad person, fix this crap and talk to me later”.

            No bull.

  • October 1, 2013 at 12:11 pm
    Mike Pugaczewski says:
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    Partisanship is a good thing and it started the day George Washington was sworn in. Both sides meet, negotiate a compromise and move on. The President is the mediator and works to bring both sides to the table to hammer out a settlement. With this system one side or the other cannot degenerate into a dictatorship with a my way or highway attitude. Until recently this has worked well for us, hasn’t it? I think so.

    • October 1, 2013 at 1:49 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      I hear you, Mike. Republicans keep obstructing everything President Obama ran on and has attempted to implement. They need to realize we elected this man not once, but twice, reaffirming the platforms he ran on. It’s a shame what happened that night at The Caucus Restaurant and Newt Gingrich even admits to it. Pitiful!

    • October 1, 2013 at 5:01 pm
      Agent says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Mike, it is amazing to me that we have leaders in both parties who refuse to sit down and talk about working this out. The President has said he is not interested in compromise on anything. Harry Reid said he won’t compromise either. Boehner has said he wants to sit down and talk, but they won’t so here we go with yet another stalemate. Who is unwilling to compromise on the budget, government shut down etc. We had the same fight about the last reduction in spending and got Sequester and they said the sky was going to fall and it didn’t. The Federal Government is totally out of control and we don’t have a President who is willing to lead by getting all the parties involved.

      • October 2, 2013 at 9:23 am
        Ron says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent,

        President Obama and Senator Reid both made it clear that anything in the bill that defunds and/or delays the ACA will not be considered. I do not agree with that strategy since I am against the ACA, but Speaker Boehner and the House should reconsider their approach and find other areas for cuts that have a much better chance of being passed in the Senate and Signed by the President.

        You are so blinded by Republican/Conservative rhetoric and taliking points that you cannot see what is happening.

        Is there even a small part of you that thinks things might be better if the House spent more time looking for solutions to help the economy and jobs and less time trying to repeal a law that has ZERO chance of being repealed? How much has it cost us taxpayers (salaries of Representatives and staff, resources, court costs, etc) to pass those 40+ bills that would never be signed into law. I thought you were against government waste. Or is that only when the waste does not benefit you and/or your agenda?

        • October 2, 2013 at 12:33 pm
          Agent says:
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          Ron, don’t put me in a box with Republicans. I am a proud Conservative and not a fan of the Moderate RINO’s. Look Ron, Republicans have been sending bill after bill of legislation that is not for repeal of Obamacare for at least three years and have had Reid trash every one of them. They have passed budgets and sent them. Where is Reid’s budget? Has he ever been for anything other than Continuing Resolutions to fund government? The reason why Democrats don’t do budgets is they don’t want the taxpayers to know how bad it is and how massive the deficit is. This government has not had a budget in 5 years. Why should they start now? By the way, your President finally agreed to meet with Boehner and McConnell this afternoon to talk about the issues. Meanwhile, the administration is building fences around the WW11 Memorial to keep out “The Greatest Generation” veterans who traveled there to see their memorial. Where did they get the money to do that? Is that good policy or is this another Sequestration ploy to inflict the maximum amount of pain on the citizens they do not represent.

          • October 2, 2013 at 12:53 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            If you do not want me to put you in a box with republicans, then you need to stop putting me in a box with Democrats, Lib erals, Progressives or any other left-leaning bunch.

            For every RINO, there is also a DINO that Democrats complain about. They are usually Democrats or Republicans who are elected in an area that tends to lean the other way from their party so they vote for their constituents, not their party. Isn’t that what our representatives are supposed to do?

            By the way, President Obama is your President, too. Unless you have renounced your citizenship and moved to another country. Yes, I will keep making that point because it is something I feel strongly about. The President of the United States, regardless of party or agreement with policies, is EVERY citizen’s President. To think otherwise is contrary to the Constitution and unAmerican.

        • October 2, 2013 at 12:56 pm
          bob says:
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          The law does not have zero chance of being appealed.

          It was passed based on Bush W approval.

          As for shouldn’t they waste their time on jobs bills: You either need to google more or are just plain lying here. They have introduced hundreds of jobs bills, and each time Obama tries to tie the bill with a stimulus, tax increases, QE, etc. Just google “republican jobs bills” they used to have every single bill they attempted listed online (something Obama promised he would do for passed bills but didn’t do). You really need to do your research since currently, the republicans are above average for their historical norms, whereas democrats are definitely without a doubt at their most dishonest and worst and most powerful.

          I think Obama should spend his time ceasing pushing his agenda rather than passing any good conservative ideals stand alone.

          Maybe the right wouldn’t tie things together if they didn’t see it worked for democrats. Just saying.

          • October 2, 2013 at 2:13 pm
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            You said, “The law does not have zero chance of being appealed. It was passed based on Bush W approval.” To what are you referring? I was referring to the ACA. Please provide the path to repealling the law with out the Senate or President approval.

            I did not say that they did not spend any time on jobs or the economy, just that they spent too much time, and my tax dollars, doing something that would never reach completion based on the current political environment.

            So, President Obama requiring a bill to be paid for and not add to the deficit is a bad thing? I don’t like tax increases either, but when do we stop deficit spending? Or, why is it OK for the Republicans to engage in deficit spending, but not Democrats?

            Please cite all of the laws that President Obama has signed toward his agenda.

            Please provide some quantitative measure of how you came up with, “currently, the republicans are above average for their historical norms, whereas democrats are definitely without a doubt at their most dishonest and worst and most powerful.” I am not disagreeing, just curious how you come up with such a statement when both parties are at all time lows in approval rating.

            Remember to cite your source.

          • October 2, 2013 at 3:39 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, I respect the office, but not this man whose ideas are so bad, I blanche with every one he comes out with. This country has had its share of bad Presidents in the past century who did a lot of damage to the country. Even LBJ, who robbed the Social Security Trust Fund and put it in the General Fund to pay for his War on Poverty and social programs didn’t do as much damage as the current one who seems bent on completely polarizing the country and bankrupting it whichever comes first. You should be smart enough to see that, but I see your wheels turning and wondering what website you can check to verify it.

          • October 3, 2013 at 1:13 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            “is there even a small part of you that thinks things might be better if the House spent more time looking for solutions to help the economy and jobs and less time trying to repeal a law that has ZERO chance of being repealed”

            You did state that they should spend more time searching for solutions to help the economy, which implies they aren’t Google it. They have sent in hundreds of extremely good bills. They have spent plenty of time and Obama has pushed against every single bill that didn’t have something he wanted inside of it. He has not passed on republican idea.

            As for requiring a bill to be paid for: Revenues in 2006-2007 were high enough to pay for anything we would have today. Tax increases have historically not helped much at all. We are talking a difference that has yet to be proven at all to be in existence. 18-20% of gdp is a non issue, when you have someone increasing the spending as a percentage of GDP to be 4-5% higher. Requiring tax increases as a result of spending for a stimulus, QE (which re-inflated the housing bubble) 99 weeks unemployment, welfare, and allowing those to double while raising taxes is the issue. Not raising taxes. Falling back on raising taxes when it is not needed, and is slowing down the economy is plain wrong. The point wasn’t whether or not to fund the government. The point was he tied some crap to every bill he passed. Stay on point.

            Regarding why they are the worst and to provide a source? First, learn to debate, the SOURCE is me. I postulated the theory. You mean to provide facts to support my theory. I already did so.

            QE, it reinflated the housing bubble. I don’t need to provide a source. It did. Housing prices caused the crash, democrats just reinflated it and the public opinion is positive. Have you ever seen a period in history where a voter was so pissed about a crises, just to vote for a power who re-inflated it and was praised for it? That is the measure for “power”. Can you think of any time a republican would have got away with that? The CRA was involved in the collapse. As I have shown, and you can google CRA Ratings, look at why a bank needs a high CRA rating. They get a high CRA rating, they can give more loans. It’s basically a reward system. Not all loans are CRA Loans, but WAMU for example fought to get a high CRA rating to expand by over 20 locations in 7 years. To do so, it is even documented in their rating, they proved they could give loans to low income earners, at poverty level, with little to no income documentation. Look it up Ron! It is insulting the left doesn’t know this. Leahman Brothers had 17% of their loans at poverty level at one point, the CRA loved it! The median loan with Leahman at that point? about $215,000. Leahman had to maintain a high CRA rating to be able to make their bread and butter loans. They had to write low income earners with little to no loan documentation to have a high rating from the CRA. Not all loans considered in a CRA rating are CRA loans. So back on point: The democrats pulled off the lie of saying CRA had nothing to do with it by stating that CRA loans themselves didn’t fail, it was other loans.

            Yes. That’s true. But it’s also true that Bank of America, WAMU (formally chase), and Countrywide (might have the wrong name as I would have to get the names again) each made CRA commitments of between $400 to $1,000 billion of low income loans to get higher CRA ratings, and two went bankrupt while one nearly went under. But that was totally the republican’s faults. That’s evidence of power. Never in history would someone have pulled that off before, while keeping the same regulations in place to encourage banks to give bad loans.

            Stimulus – $780 billion dollars roughly, Maybe you should accept common sense and pay attention to what facts are, rather than trying to state I need to verify obvious facts. I don’t need to pull up links for this stuff Ron! It’s a time waster! That spending bill has to be paid for now and did nothing for the economy. The republicans should not have tried to stop it? Well, they certainly got a bad image for it! That’s power. Something fails, don’t get sad, get glad! Blame the other guy for not passing MORE stimulus? Are you kidding?

            The government shuts down, state that’s why the economy is bad, really? It shut down in 1995. It didn’t go so bad then did it?

            The president makes a sequester, blame the other guy for it! That’s power.

            The president agrees to do spending cuts as long as we increase taxes, he LIES takes it back, the public loves him for it! Now those blasted republicans just aren’t agreeing to a balanced “compromise” to Obama’s broken promise, and they are hated for it rather than Obama for breaking the promise? That’s power.

            Absolutely nothing is sticking to Obama. Reinflate the housing bubble, doesn’t stick.

            Stimulus fails? Doesn’t stick.

            Why does the debt matter for him and not republicans? Easy answer? His is much higher. If we put an average to Bush W’s debt for his 8 years as a percentage of GDP at the time, (there’s a reason I don’t count the total debt after his presidency, as that includes interest) then we see that Bush W had one bad year, and the rest were considerably under Obama. Why does debt not matter for Reagan? He fixed the economy. Labor participation went up AND unemployment went down. Do you understand why that is a big deal? When the labor participation rate goes down during a recession, less of the population is counted in the unemployment rate. So, when the labor participation rate goes down it can actually in itself lower the unemployment rate, making things look better than they are. With Reagan it dipped down, and then went back up. With Obama, the labor participation rate is still dropping, and it’s not from baby boomers. But the economy is better right? THAT is power. We have unemployment benefits at nearly double, welfare and nearly double, food stamps up, part time jobs are the majority of the new jobs, housing costs high, wages growth down in light of inflation, a guy telling us we need more QE to keep inflation high, and the middle class actually thinks it is good for them. THAT is power.

            Why are they more corrupt now than ever? They are glossing over what truly is, in favor of lies and fantasies.

          • October 3, 2013 at 1:20 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            And if you want more evidence of power,

            Forget everything I just said and consider this:

            DEMOCRATS ARE LESS LIKELY TO DISAGREE WITH THEIR PARTY. You can google that one. I don’t really want to pull up the polls again. I don’t just stash this all in a file to pull out for anyone who wants it. Like you, it’s in my head from prior research. You don’t have to believe me. Just look it up.

            That, by all means, is the best measure of power.

          • October 3, 2013 at 2:06 pm
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            Saying someone or a group of people should spend more time on something does not imply that they aren’t sepnding any time. I was implying that the House was wasting time and money pursuing an unachieveable goal.

            You still have not provided a realistic path for the House bills to repeal the PPACA could become law.

            How many of the House jobs bills has President Obama vetoed? If the answer is zero, then how is he to blame for stopping them?

            Why didn’t the Republicans repeal the RCA when they were in power?

            You did a nice job tearing down the Democrats, but provided no quantitative meausure to support your statement,”currently, the republicans are above average for their historical norms”. If it is merely your opinion, then state as such. However, the way you originally presented that position, it was an irrefutable fact.

          • October 4, 2013 at 2:59 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            If you mean to state that democrats won’t repeal it, because they are powerful and there is no way to beat them currently so that there is no course currently, I will agree, right now there is no course. Keeping the fight alive until the senate switches is the course to repealing the law. Keeping the fight alive is the main focus, because the public forgets about these things.

            The veto is irrelevant. A threat of veto is enough. Obama has directly lambasted each plan. He is blocking the jobs bills from republicans.

            On to why republicans are average? I actually don’t have to say why, when I spell out exactly how democrats are the worst in history. If you agree they aren’t you have to state how they are worse than average. Average = normal. Do I have to prove normal? I don’t think so.

            So you provide why you think they are below average.

          • October 4, 2013 at 4:01 pm
            Ron says:
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            Bob,

            That was exactly my point. I just don’t think “Keeping the fight alive until the senate switches is the course to repealing the law.” is worth the millions of tax dollars wasted on an unachievable goal. Not only will they have to gain a majority in the Senate to a veto-proof majority, they still need to gain seats in the House to become veto-proof. Based on current pollin numbers, that will prove to be a tall order. Which means, they will have to continue wasting our tax dollars to keep it alive until the 2016 elections and hope an anti-PPACA President is elected. It just sounds like too many things need to fall into place at this point. Which is probably why the Republicans are pushing so hard to defund and/or delay the law regardless of public opinion.

            At this point, I believe they are all; Republicans, Conservatives, Democrats and Liberals, President Obama included, well below average. That is why I am voting against every incument, regardless of party affiliation, in the next few elections.

          • October 4, 2013 at 7:02 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            You don’t “think” it’s worth it because you don’t see the problem of a 25% inflated premium market and the affect therein of about 1.2 trillion dollars over ten years on the deficit. That’s a greater affect on the economy, make it tangible Ron. I don’t care about anything other than the facts.

            Moving on: I never said it had to be done with forcing a government shutdown. You said they had better things to focus it on. Keeping it alive the last 4 years has not harmed the economy, though you might try to argue it is damaging it now in light of the shut down, again, refer to the 1995 government shut down. That didn’t harm the economy. Ending spending does not harm the economy. Regardless, keeping it alive for as long as possible does not harm the economy.

            If your bottom conclusion is they are all well below average because it is impossible for the republicans to make progress due to democrats, that is a bad argument. There’s no way to get it done, as you said. Unless democrats get out of the way. Voting out incumbents and your mentality is in itself why things are getting deadlocked. It won’t pass? Whatever, just get mad at the republicans for trying, then vote them out the next election right? Vote them in 2010 against the healthcare law, vote them out the next time for trying to do something about it, because it’s just impossible for them to do THAT something.

            Ron, you’re highly illogical. You have now said that you never said that they didn’t try to pass jobs bills, just that they didn’t focus on it, but they did, but they didn’t. (look above, you really did do this) and then you said you don’t like the PACA but that there’s nothing republicans can do about it, and because if they try things will get dead locked, you think both parties are below average for it, even though the democrat party is the one responsible for the law, if the republicans try to keep the public’s eye on it and get it repealed they are bad in your eyes. You have no route in which the republicans would be viewed favorably, none. You have no route in which the republicans, when democrats are in office, can do the right thing. This is part of why I said before you lean left.

            The buck stops with the democrat to get things like this out.

  • October 1, 2013 at 1:44 pm
    R says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Everyone should read a little history like the period of 1800 -1860 when there were fistfights in Congress. And the 1890 – 1925 (?) period leading to the Great Depression.
    The roots of the 2008 – 2009 crisis go back many, many years and are wide enough to get ensnare both side of the aisle in Congress.

    The talking head sound bite ‘news’ reporting today does the country a dis-service, regardless of the brand name on the TV logo.

    Complex issues need reasoned deliberate debate reaching solutions. Immature people want to point fingers of blame and call names, adults work to solve problems.

    Pogo “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

    • October 3, 2013 at 2:32 pm
      Agent says:
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      Ron, your naivety is showing again. You had the audacity to ask how many job bills have President Obama vetoed. You should have been asking how many jobs bills have made it past Reid to be debated, voted on and passed for Obama to veto. The way it works Ron is the House passes a bill and it has to go to the Senate first, voted on before submitting to the President. The answer to the job bills submitted is a big fat 0. Obama has had it easy because Reid protects him from having to veto anything the Republicans submit from a budget to a jobs bill. The Senate really likes these continuing resolutions so they won’t have to do a real budget and we won’t see what a disaster they are.

      • October 3, 2013 at 4:26 pm
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        Then why does President Obama keep getting blamed? That has been my point the whole time. I have expressed my disappointment in Senator Reid and the Senate Democrats in addition to the House Republicans. I am sick and tired of people placing blame where it does not belong based on how our government works (or doesn’t work). Now do you understand my position and why I am an Independent?

        • October 3, 2013 at 4:37 pm
          Libby says:
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          I’m pretty sure the answer will be no.

        • October 3, 2013 at 5:59 pm
          Agent says:
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          Excuse me? Do you really think Obama gets blamed for anything that goes wrong? He is the original Teflon President. The liberal media in this country consistently blame Republicans for everything bad that happens. Has this President ever been blamed for not presenting a budget for Congress to act on? A couple of years ago, even the liberal Senate voted 100-0 on the budget he presented, but they just laughed it off and went on with their continuing resolutions. When was the last time he had to answer very tough questions at news conferences? In the early years, the toughest questions were – what is the most enjoyable thing you like about your job? Ron, please wake up and smell the coffee. If you haven’t expressed your disappointment and outrage about what this President has done to the country, you are not an Independent and have joined the Libby chorus of Progressives.

          • October 4, 2013 at 7:29 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            What are you waiting for?

          • October 4, 2013 at 9:01 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            How dare you complain about me putting you in a box with Republicans, then state, “you are not an Independent and have joined the Libby chorus of Progressives.”

            That makes you a hypocrite and disrespectful. Grow up!

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:12 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, I know where I stand in my beliefs. When are you going to stand up and be counted? When are you going to realize that the country is headed down the wrong road and post something akin to a real criticism? Don’t bother with the same milk toast admission that you have stated you are against the ACA. If the National Review article didn’t light a fire under you, nothing ever will.

          • October 4, 2013 at 4:11 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I will stand up and be counted where it matters, at the polls. I believe that if EVERY voter voted against EVERY incumbent, we can change the course of this country. That is the only way the voting public can truly be heard. Otherwise, the idiots in Washington will believe that, contrary to all of the polling numbers, we actually approve of what they are doing and keep on keepin’ on.

            Wat exactly are you doing to get this country going down the right road? All I have experienced from you are insults, labeling, misinterpretation and regurgitation of Conservative rhetoric and talikng points.

      • October 3, 2013 at 4:39 pm
        Libby says:
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        Agent – you yourself have said you are not a Republican, but are a “conservative” and would vote against your so-called RINO’s. So doesn’t that sort of make you an Independent, as well? It’s not a bad thing to be an independent and use your brain to make decisions rather than your voter registration card.

        • October 3, 2013 at 6:04 pm
          Agent says:
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          The difference Libby is that I can make up my mind about what is right and what is wrong and do it well in advance of the mid terms and Presidential elections, unlike the sitting on the fence Independents who like to be wooed by politicians all the way to the night before the election. My brain works just fine and it is not too hard to tell the Progressives and the Conservatives apart. Democrats are easy to eliminate as candidates because they are just tax, spend, tax, spend. I haven’t seen many conservative Democrats in several years now. The Blue Dogs had some promise until they voted for Obamacare and that was the end of them.

          • October 4, 2013 at 8:51 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – again you have independents mixed up with undecideds. You are indeed very limited in your ability to comprehend. That’s why your posts are losing my interest.

            Of course one’s views tend to lean more one way than another. But the difference with an Independent is that they will consider voting against party lines. I intend to vote that way in the next election. Anyone that is currently in is getting voted out by me.

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:06 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, had you been paying attention to national politics, the polls all refer to courting the undecided Independents and politicians keep trying to court them, promise them something that will get their vote. Independents tend to confound most politicians when they realize Independents are fence sitters with no clear idea what they want in a government or a leader. People like you say you are for Conservative Fiscal policy but you like much of the Progressive agenda. I would say it is almost an impossible task to get into the head of the typical Independent. You can’t have it both ways.

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm
            Libby says:
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            Of course you can, Agent. But I want you and your like-minded folks to continue to be pig-headed and stubborn. After all, it’s gotten you soooo far so far, hasn’t it? LOL! Can’t wait for the polls to open!

    • October 3, 2013 at 2:42 pm
      Agent says:
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      Bob, I agree with you for the most part about Democrats are less likely to disagree with their party, but if you remember the run up to passing Obamacare, there were plenty of Democrats that had great reservations about Obamacare even though there was a super majority in both houses. What happened? Obama blamed Republicans for being obstructionists and calling them the party of no and Republicans couldn’t do anything to stop it. The law was passed eventually after the Louisiana Purchase, the Cornhusker Kickback and threatening and coercing by the leadership in the House & Senate to force the more moderate Blue Dogs to vote for it. They paid with their political careers when voted out in the now famous “shellacking” in 2010. Nancy did give them a great going away party and then she lost her leadership position.

  • October 1, 2013 at 5:04 pm
    Apostle says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    I am baffled that in a country where any citizen of majority can be called for jury duty that the same process is not applied to serving in government. It would save the people from being subjugated by politicians at the mercy of special interest groups. Ultimately whether a congressperson, house representative or president is replaced after 4 years does not matter. What matters is consistency and service delivery by the civil service who are the ones that keep things running and yet are made to suffer now by antics. I’m not concerned about perceived level of intelligence of any representative chosen in such a fashion because after their term is over they will have to return to their community and answer to the people.

  • October 2, 2013 at 9:17 am
    Captain Planet says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    The current Republican version of compromise:

    R – “Cut off your head please.”
    D – “No”
    R – “Your nose?”
    D – “No”
    R – “Your ear?”
    D – “No”
    R – “Poke out an eye?”
    D – “No”
    R – “You aren’t compromising!”

    • October 2, 2013 at 12:40 pm
      bob says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      You are a complete fool.

      Obamacare was passed before the congress turned republican.

      At the time Obama famously said “You drive in the back”

      And refused compromise. He intentionally put in the mandate, then lied and said republicans backed it (majority of republicans did not back that plan) in order to feign bi partisan measures to the bill.

      Having exchanges in the bill is not bi partisan.

      The Obama bill was passed in the destructive wake of Bush’s disapproval, it was not passed based on the approval of obama care, which continues to be 50/50 at absolute best.

      • October 2, 2013 at 2:50 pm
        Agent says:
        Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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        Bob, the latest CNN poll has it 37% for, 58% against. Back in the now famous Blair House meeting, Republicans offered alternatives to Obamacare such as selling across state lines to create competition, setting up Pools for the PreX crowd that could be subsidized , tax credits to buy instead of tax penalties. That was met with disdain and the attitude – We won, you lost, get on the back of the bus, we are doing it our way. Obama had the chance to compromise and do the right thing then and he chose his Progressive Socialist dream which became the current nightmare.

        • October 2, 2013 at 4:49 pm
          Libby says:
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          You are like a broken record, Agent. Polly want a cracker? Bawk!

          • October 2, 2013 at 6:13 pm
            Agent says:
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            Speaking of broken records, you have been eating a whole lot of crackers for the past 3 years and you squawk at every post a Conservative makes when you know deep down we are right. Poor Planet just makes some goofy sarcastic remark which only makes peoples eyes roll in amazement. You liberals are great at accusing Conservatives of not reaching across the aisle and compromising to get something done, but it seems to be a one way street. Don’t ever expect a Progressive to compromise on their position. It is always a big fat NO. It has to be our way or the highway.

          • October 3, 2013 at 8:53 am
            Libby says:
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            You’re out of touch, old man. Move over and let the progressives lead the way!

          • October 3, 2013 at 9:05 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent, just what do you think the PPACA is? One HUGE compromise. President Obama was talking about universal healthcare, single payer. Instead, he rolls out the Heritage Foundation’s conservative answer to Hillarycare. The very plan that had been inacted by Gov. Romney in MA. The very plan that Sen. DeMint was in favor of back in 2007 and even said Romney’s healthcare plan should be a model for the rest of the United States. But, as soon as a Dem puts his name on it, it’s all of a sudden the evil of all evils. Whatever! The Right Wing’s whole argument is just a joke. It’s THEIR POLICY from the 90′s. They are just jealous they didn’t get it enacted.

            It is not a perfect law and will need some revisions as we move forward. But, it is a step in the right direction for, at the very least, 30+ million uninsured Americans. Not to mention anyone with a pre-x.

          • October 3, 2013 at 1:24 pm
            bob says:
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            Planet,

            For the last time! He did not roll out the republican solution for healthcare. The mandate was suggested at one point, and that is only one minor point of the law.

            The law also limits the amount of premium that can be invested for growth. That’s major down point. That will damage the combined ratio of a firm. If you deny that, you’re ignorant when it comes to insurance.

            Romney care is NOT Obamacare. Different names, different bills, different aspects. Not to mention, STATE bills are not equivalent to FEDERAL.

            States run tests to do with the affects of mandates. Federal laws very rarely get revoked. We test with states, we don’t test with the federal government.

          • October 3, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            bob says:
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            Oh please.

            I have a hard time believing that you have ever had a mind of your own.

        • October 3, 2013 at 1:21 pm
          bob says:
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          Agent,

          I know, I’m giving him benefit of the doubt. On it’s best days it has garnered above 50%.

          • October 3, 2013 at 2:44 pm
            Agent says:
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            Bob, it depends on what poll you are looking at and who is getting polled. I cited the CNN poll which is hardly a bastion of conservative thinking.

          • October 4, 2013 at 5:41 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Bob, We didn’t convince many of the left leaning crowd this week, but we gave it the college try. I will leave you with this. Do you remember the movie Network? The late, great Peter Finch uttered the best line in movie history when he shouted – I’m mad as he– and I am not going to take it anymore. That is how I feel about what has transpired in this country and how Progressive Liberalism has infected the minds of many Americans. Some of them are on this blog and they are thoroughly brainwashed from exposure to this failed philosophy. Have a nice weekend.

      • October 3, 2013 at 12:18 pm
        Agent says:
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        Bob, I hope you and many others on this blog will go to the following website and read the article published on 10-1 about the 100 Unintended Consequences of Obamacare. It was published by National Review so this should satisfy website Ron about the sources. Go to http://www.nationalreview.com. Scroll down to Oct 1 and everyone can see it. This shows the devastating results of every facet of business, medical, City & County Government that this law has affected adversely. This shows graphically that it was the biggest job killer ever passed by Congress.

    • October 3, 2013 at 12:12 pm
      Agent says:
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      The current Obama version of compromise.
      R – Let’s sit down at the negotiating table and work these issues out.
      D-(Obama/Reid) – No
      R- Let’s work out a plan to fund the government that makes sense.
      D – No
      D- Obama – I have bent over backwards, but I will not negotiate.
      R – We are willing to compromise on many issues
      D – We will not compromise or negotiate.
      D – Per Nancy Pelosi, there is no where to cut. NO!

  • October 3, 2013 at 5:52 pm
    Presl70 says:
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    From what I read I can see why Congress is going head to head with nobody giving any ground or agreeing to work together. We appearently are just like them with all the name calling and such. WHY CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER. THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE!!!

  • October 3, 2013 at 5:58 pm
    Justaguy says:
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    I expect a lot of dislikes on this one. Don’t disappoint me please.

    Could all you political/religious bent idiots please get your own chat line to discuss your beliefs and make your derogatory comments?

    I’d like to read comments from intelligent people but it is so hard to find them amongst all your “did so”, “did not” mentality.

    Have a nice day! :)
    Or not.

    • October 3, 2013 at 6:12 pm
      Agent says:
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      What do you expect in a polarized society Justaguy? If you stick with reading comments from Bob, he will give you chapter and verse on the issues of the day. If you read Planet and Libby, you will be disappointed time after time. If you ever post anything of value, Ron will ask you to prove it with a website article. I gave them a website article to read today and there is a strange silence. Amazing!

  • October 4, 2013 at 7:52 am
    Ron says:
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    Agent,

    Please let us know what you have done to make this a less polarized society? All you do is tear down anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest way instead of looking for ways they agree with you.

    How come when Bob said, “I don’t think that Ron said anything implying a liberal slant. If anything this is I believe the closest he has come to agreeing with you, or trying to imagine how a smaller government might happen.” and “It’s probably because a lot of the time you do “sound like” (appear since we are online) a liberal who is trying to play moderate. I believe your recent commentary has convinced me otherwise.” you discounted it as Bob playing nice with me? When has Bob EVER played nice with anyone whom he disagrees?

    You usually agree with everything he posts, why not now? My guess is because you are the most polarizing person on this blog. Try being a part of the solution instead exaperating the problem.

    Please explain how Independents are polarizing? Do you honestly believe that more Conservatives in office will make this country less polarized? To be proactive, having more Liberals in office would create more polarization, so please don’t let that question be your rebuttal.

    I read the article and there was nothing in there I had not seen on CNN, Fox, and even MSN before. I am not sure what I was supposed to get out of it since I AM AGAINST THE PPACA. Please explain why you continue to think I am for the PPACA?

    • October 4, 2013 at 3:13 pm
      bob says:
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      Oh my.

      So many things, first, Ron is correct. I don’t just do random comments to be nice. I do them when I feel someone is correct. I don’t really care about whether I am nice or not on here. It sounds horrible but it’s simply true.

      But on everyone else: Agent is clearly agitated, yes yes, everyone who is younger says the whole “My dad was that way too, with us or against us!” and leans left as a result. This is why I called the younger democrat crow the “daddy issue” crowd.

      We get it! The world is divided.

      Let’s try to focus on what we can have an impact on. Get rid of the devils you know. We can have an impact right now, and could have the last four years, we would not have had the ACA, or the QE, or the Twist, homes would be about half the cost, and debt would NOT regardless of what you guys keep saying about past debt history, have racked up over a trillion a year. That would have been good. Did we get changes in abortion the last 4 years? NO. Did we get differences in gay rights movements? NO. Why are you making deciding votes on issues that made no progress, and are willing to allow someone to destroy our nation in the process?

      I would take someone over reacting on the right, and voting right to get rid of the PPACA, and voting for economic issues, and voting for the party who is not dominating currently, then someone who says “can’t we all get along?” and votes left thinking it will do something for gay rights, or “abortion” rights (and no, there is not a difference between pro choice and pro abortion).

      Make a difference where you can! That’s the way to go.

  • October 4, 2013 at 10:02 am
    Agent says:
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    Bob also said you leaned Liberal even though you say you are a proud Independent. Let me see if I can pin you down. This all boils down to whether you think Liberalism or Conservatism is the right philosophy for America. Why doesn’t it anger you to see what is going on in this country? You are not sure what you were supposed to get out of it???? If you are truly against the ACA, how about posting something against it instead of criticizing others about not posting a website supporting their position? Please explain when MSNBC ever posted bad news on Obamacare on their programming. You are completely lacking in passion about this issue so I assume you are in the camp of the go along to get along crowd.

    • October 4, 2013 at 2:24 pm
      jw says:
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      There are only 2 choices? Liberalism or Conservatism? What happened to the middle?

      • October 4, 2013 at 2:49 pm
        Ron says:
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        jw,

        Don’t tell Agent about the middle, you will only confuse him more. Lord knows he does not need that.

        • October 4, 2013 at 2:55 pm
          Agent says:
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          I am not confused Ron, but you are. I don’t need a website spewing propoganda to tell who is right and who is wrong. You seem to be one of those guys that like to dabble a little in both philosophies. You can’t have it both ways.

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:23 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            To quote OUR President, Yes I can!!!!

            And I am not the only one.

            Democrat – 31%
            Republican – 27%
            Independent – 41%

            http://www.gallup.com/poll/159740/democrats-establish-lead-party-affiliation.aspx

          • October 4, 2013 at 3:46 pm
            Libby says:
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            And if, according to you Agent, most independents tend to lean liberal, guess what? You’re screwed!

      • October 4, 2013 at 2:52 pm
        Agent says:
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        jw, you sound a lot like Ron. Just can’t make up your mind who is right and who is wrong for the country. Why would you want to be in the middle? The real choice is between right and wrong. Progressives have taken the country down the wrong road for the past 20 years with both parties. Why do you think we have the current mess we have? Do you want to be controlled and told what to think and how to live your life? If so, stick with the Progressives because that is their mantra.

        • October 4, 2013 at 3:31 pm
          Ron says:
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          Agent,

          You, just like to rest of the Consevatives/Republicans, have some twisted logic that if you insult people who do not believe in the same things in which you believe, they will change their minds.

          • October 4, 2013 at 4:05 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            It’s called the “I’m right, you’re evil” mentality. In this case, Agent substitutes The Left for the “you’re” part. Glenn Beck suffers from it, too. I listen to his show and he actually called President Obama, Satan. How about that for some red meat to the base, huh? Seems a lot of conservatives also suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome. Newt Gingrich admits to the obstructionist strategy he and other conservatives conjured up at the Caucus Room Restaurant the night President Obama was inaugurated in his first term. The strategy still exists. Great clip here as evidence:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJpiY3YJdfU

        • October 4, 2013 at 7:10 pm
          bob says:
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          Ron,

          And you, like most liberal leaners, think you aren’t insulting people by stating:

          “God You guys always think that it’s either right or wrong, that’s just so WRONG! So, I’m voting the other way because that’s just right, and you’re wrong and mean” is the high road. *rolls eyes*. It’s the childish one and is exactly the same (minus direct insults, because it’s passive).

          For Planet:

          Your crowd does the: Your crowd says we are evil or good, well our crowd thinks those that think your evil or good mentality is bad, so we will put you in a box, and vote our way. Same thing as what I said to Ron. There is no difference, other than you really do ignore your party’s problems and progress. As I said to Ron, get rid of the devils you know. In all of the areas Ron said he cared about, no progress was made on social issues, and progress was made against the economic.

          We insult you for being dumb, well, you are. Get over it.

          Rather than being upset that someone is actually upset that you’re hurting the economy (wow, how surprising people that are active in politics thinks you are dumb) start thinking.

  • October 4, 2013 at 10:37 am
    Ron says:
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    Agent,

    So you only listen to Bob when he says something about me with which you agree, but not when he sees the light? Nice.

    You complain about the polarization of the country, then come up with, “This all boils down to whether you think Liberalism or Conservatism is the right philosophy for America.” That is the ultimate expression of polarization. I believe both sides provide positive and negative ideology for the country. I like the true Conservative fiscal policies of low taxes and limited government. I like the Progressivve approach of true freedom and liberty when it comes to personal decisions such as Pro-choice (not the same as pro-abortion), gay marriage, and true religious freedom including freedom from religion.

    You asked, “Why doesn’t it anger you to see what is going on in this country?” Simple, I say the following prayer every day:

    God grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;
    courage to change the things I can;
    and wisdom to know the difference.

    As one citizen, the only way I can change what is going on is by voting. As an Independent I will vote against every incumbent, regardless of party affiliation, in Congress in the next few elections as I have the past 2 elections.

    What are doing about what is going except for complaining on this blog?

    So you have no evidence that I have EVER expressed support for the PPACA?

    I believe you, Bob, FFA and Sarge have mentioned all of the negative aspects of the PPACA, so there is no need for me to restate that information. I thought you would be happy to know that I agree with you.

    You said, “Please explain when MSNBC ever posted bad news on Obamacare on their programming.” I never said MSNBC, but here is an article from NBC News. They even quoted a union president that the White House is wrong on the impact of the PPACA.
    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/13/20010062-businesses-claim-obamacare-has-forced-them-to-cut-employee-hours?lite

    • October 4, 2013 at 11:06 am
      Libby says:
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      “I like the true Conservative fiscal policies of low taxes and limited government. I like the Progressivve approach of true freedom and liberty when it comes to personal decisions such as Pro-choice (not the same as pro-abortion), gay marriage, and true religious freedom including freedom from religion.”

      I couldn’t have said it better. That is exactly how I feel, too. But because I have liberal social views, people like Agent & Sarge assume I am all for “tax and spend”. Not true. Not true at all.

      • October 4, 2013 at 11:56 am
        Ron says:
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        Libby,

        Thank you.

        They all remind me of my father-in-law; if you are not with them on ALL issues, then you are a Liberal, Socialist, Progressive, anit-American leech. And then they wonder why there aren’t more Conservatives elected. Stick to your Conservative ideology and keep insulting Independents, then you can continue to watch everyone else run (ruin) this country from the sidelines.

        If you want to get in the game and make a difference, then you need to understand what Independents want and be more open to them.

        • October 4, 2013 at 5:35 pm
          Agent says:
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          Your father in law is a lot wiser than you are Ron. You don’t seem to know the difference between a Progressive Liberal and a Conservative. Doesn’t all that fence sitting make your butt sore after a while? Apparently, you have never seen or heard a true Conservative that you thought had a good message and could get behind. Instead, you end up drinking the Kool Aid of the left and in favor of doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. It ain’t going to happen.

          • October 7, 2013 at 9:58 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I figured out the Conservative approach. They could either make some slight changes to their platform regarding social issues, get elected, then make some real changes to improve the country. Or they can push their social agenda, keep losing elections, then complain about those they were elected and how they are destroying the country. I believe the Conservatives will continue to do the latter because it is easier.

      • October 4, 2013 at 2:27 pm
        jw says:
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        Ditto.

        • October 4, 2013 at 4:09 pm
          Captain Planet says:
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          Bingo, Yahtzee, bullseye, swish!

        • October 8, 2013 at 4:55 pm
          Agent says:
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          Actually Ron, we haven’t had a real Conservative to run in many years. Reagan was as close as it has been. He recognized that government was the problem, not the solution and he was right. We don’t need to be making social issues the prime campaign issue like the Democrats. We need to straighten out the fiscal mess, leadership issues we have currently and get someone in there who can take charge and lead the nation back to greatness. Conservatives aren’t about taking peoples rights away, but we don’t like to be force fed things we don’t want and have an overbearing Big Brother Nanny State. Maybe you like these things, but Conservatives don’t and the way things are going, a lot of people are waking up and wondering where our great country went and they don’t like what they see.

          • October 9, 2013 at 9:13 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Thank you for supporting my position that this country does not want more Conservatives. Are you referring to a President that increased the debt more than all previous Presidents combined, signed tax increases 4 of the years in office, grew federal employment by 60,000, and transformed the U.S from creditor to debtor? That guy? Don’t you think actions and results are more important than words?

          • October 9, 2013 at 9:17 am
            Ron says:
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            I apologize. I forgot to include my source.

            http://mag.newsweek.com/2010/05/10/even-reagan-wasn-t-a-reagan-republican.html

      • October 4, 2013 at 2:48 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, please find me a true Progressive who is fiscally conservative. They don’t exist because it is a clash of the belief systems. You can’t have low taxes and limited government with a Progressive. They are all tax and spend, big government types who don’t mind spending a Trillion more than they take in as long as they get their entitlements. Did even one Conservative vote for Obamacare? Has one Progressive ever advocated to cut the massive deficit and reign in spending since they have been in power? If you were a Conservative, you have a funny way of showing it judging from your posts. I also don’t think you can find many Conservatives who likes your guy’s policies of destruction.

        • October 4, 2013 at 3:53 pm
          Libby says:
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          Agent – you have no idea just what the term “liberal” means. It means I want you, the government, and all the religious nuts out there to stay out of issues such as: gay rights & women’s rights. There should be equal rights for all. Quit trying to legislate morality when it comes to birth control &/or abortion. Stop telling me what I need to believe in order to avoid going to hell.

          In other words, personal LIBERTY and FREEDOM FOR ALL. I’m sorry. I thought that was the American way.

          As for taxes and spending, I would like to see a complete overhaul of our tax system and a better way to decide where the money goes than the one that is currently in place.

          If you would quit being such an insulting turd, you might find we have more common ground than not. But I don’t expect that to change, as we have been having these same arguments for almost 2 years now. And you still won’t listen.

          • October 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm
            Agent says:
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            Guess what Libby! You have no idea what “liberty” means. We have a government now that is limiting or taking away all the freedoms we have enjoyed since the Republic was formed. We have unprecedented government control over just about every facet of our lives. By the way, I didn’t call you an ugly name on my post. Just because we differ on so many things doesn’t mean I don’t have valid points. You are such a Kool Aid drinker, you can’t see the forest for the trees and then call me a name like you have with Bob on several occasions. You should be ashamed of yourself. The reason I don’t listen to your comments is because they are so wrong for the country.

          • October 9, 2013 at 9:16 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Please list all of the limited and/or taken freedoms the government has taken away since President Obama has taken office.

    • October 4, 2013 at 2:39 pm
      Agent says:
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      That’s rich Ron. You and Libby are like two peas in a pod. Thank you for clarifying your position. You look at the Progressive Ideology like it is the true defender of liberty granting Pro Choice, Freedom of Religion and freedom from Religion, pro abortion even into the third trimester. Wow, aren’t they wonderful? Guess what Ron. They also seek to control every aspect of our lives in everything they do and put in place. Obamacare is just one example of their twisted ideology. They want to control what we eat, what we drive, what temperature we keep our house at, tax us to death, regulate us ad nauseum, spy on us. Is that the kind of freedom you like? Personally, I like the Freedom from Progressives a lot more. Excuse me for confusing MSN with MSNBC. I thought they were owned by the same outfit.

      • October 4, 2013 at 3:16 pm
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        Once again you have misinterpreted my position. Shocking!

        All I said was I believe the government should not be telling us how to live our lives and make our decisions. If a woman choses to have an abortion, since it involves her body and health, then let her. Who are you or the government to dictate someone else’s medical decisions?

        Are you against freedom of and, therefore, freedom from religion? Is the United Sates of American a democratic republic or a theocracy? Aren’t we supposed to be following the Constitution?

        It sounds like Conservatives are only interested in individual freedom and liberty when it is convenient for them.

        Talk to any true Liberal (not me or Libby) and they will tell you that the PPACA is not what they want. They wanted government run, universal health care for all. If you believe the PPACA is that, you need to get educated.

        • October 4, 2013 at 3:57 pm
          Libby says:
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          Hallelujah! Government run, universal healthcare for all! What a concept! Yes! Yes, that’s EXACTLY what I wanted (and alot of other people judging by the polls). But we got PPACA instead. Bummer? Yes. But a start? Yes!

        • October 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm
          Agent says:
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          And once again, you are showing your true colors Ron. You don’t mind murder of babies in the third trimester. Wow, that is right down Obama’s and Libby’s alley. You are also wrong about our government. We are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. Our wise founding fathers set up three separate branches of government as checks and balances in case one got power hungry like the current Executive Branch and could be reigned in. You apparently don’t remember Nixon & Clinton where the House brought Impeachment proceedings against them for overstepping their bounds. The founding fathers greatest fears was that government would get too big and overreaching like it has been shown in today’s country. What a mess this country is in! You and Libby have swallowed the propoganda hook, line and sinker. How sad for you!

          • October 7, 2013 at 9:49 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            When did I say that I, “don’t mind murder of babies in the third trimester.”? All I said is that it is more important to allow people to make their own choices about their bodies and health. If that goes against God’s will, then they will have to answer on Judgement Day.

            For the record, I am personally against all abortions with the exception of rape or the mother’s life.

            I stand corrected about how our government is labeled. However, my intent still stands, we are not a theocracy. See it is OK to admit when you are wrong, no mortal is perfect. Except for you, maybe.

        • October 4, 2013 at 7:16 pm
          bob says:
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          Ron,

          You walked into that one by stating that Libby wasn’t a true liberal. She talks about the universal healthcare all the time…

          She just posted it in reply to your comment…You can see now she is in fact a liberal.

          But moving on:

          Abortion does not involve a woman’s body, and third trimester abortions are wrong, if you believe in them, I hate to go by the republican way of life, but you are a bad person and need to work on that belief.

          Third trimester is the only aspect republicans touch federally. Other than embryonic stem cell research.

          What state do you live in? I can even give you the republicans who ran there and how they ran on those issues. It’s getting really tiring hearing you label the right so let’s just end this one. What representatives were running in your district? It’s time to end this charade with you once and for all of blaming all republicans for abortion issues.

          Though as a side comment, it’s science that the baby is a baby from conception. To me, that is reason enough to never allow an abortion, because from that moment even scientifically, that child is a US citizen, the body would never self abort, so the child is applicable to all freedoms that our country allows.

          • October 7, 2013 at 8:59 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – the way you speak to people, I don’t think you have any right judging who is good and who is bad. You may have good intentions, but your delivery sucks. And keep your moral judgements to yourself.

          • October 7, 2013 at 1:37 pm
            jw says:
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            Just one quick comment. You said “the body would never self abort” which is not correct. A miscarraige is the body rejecting (aborting) the fetus.

          • October 8, 2013 at 11:39 am
            Agent says:
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            Bob, you should have seen all the ruckus the wild eyed liberals caused in the Texas legislature when they wanted to pass a bill banning 3rd Trimester abortions. The law was passed and it also regulates the abortion clinics making sure they have adequate facilities and trained doctors/staff for any abortion performed in the earlier stage of pregnancy.

          • October 10, 2013 at 9:40 am
            Agent says:
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            Bob, Libby has admitted she switched over to the liberal side in 2008 which coincides nicely with her hatred of Bush. I think she was always on the liberal side, but now she is one of those flaming liberals who has been drinking the Kool Aid for the past 5 years. The thing that is most puzzling is that she says she is fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. That is like trying to mix oil and water. How can you possibly be for every big social spending program with huge price tags and expect a government to have a balanced budget. Pretty much an impossibility, but then when has a liberal ever had a lick of economic sense?

        • October 4, 2013 at 7:19 pm
          bob says:
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          I should note, I said “to me”

          from the moment the child is conceived it should have those rights.

          That does not mean I would advocate that being put in as a law.

        • October 4, 2013 at 7:23 pm
          bob says:
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          Ron,

          I did leave something else out on my last post I really should have said:

          Have you noticed the few times that I have said I favor a public option for low income earners along side a truly free market private system?

          This is like most of my beliefs. I have a different opinion on moderate than you.

          I want private and public social security.

          Private and public medicare/vouchers

          And actually, Romney was the first republican who was that way (moderate) one could argue it could be why he lost. He should have earned more democrat support.

          • October 8, 2013 at 11:34 am
            Agent says:
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            I am not sure about these “favors” Bob. Don’t you think that is a little much for the average low information voter out there? What would private Social Security be? Are you talking about private pension plans like IRA’s or 401K’s that many people already have for retirement? I wonder how many people would set up a private plan since many are living from pay check to pay check. I also don’t know about private and public medicare. If Medicare has had $716 Billion taken out of it for Obamacare, where are you going with this? Fill me in on your plan.

        • October 8, 2013 at 1:11 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hey Ron, Go onto http://www.michellemalkin.com on today’s newsletter, 10-10-13 and read all about the Independent couple voters who voted for Obama and have now awakened into a new world with a huge premium increase. Welcome to reality Independent voters.

          • October 8, 2013 at 1:13 pm
            Agent says:
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            Sorry about that. The article was published on 10-8-13.

          • October 8, 2013 at 2:17 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            You criticize me for going to government websites then cite a Conservative blogger. Interesting.

            I read the article that provided anecdotal evidence based on the experience of 2 Independent voters.

            I am sure that there are many, many other Independents who regret voting for President Obama, just as there were many, many Independents that regret voting for Presidents Bush, Clinton, etc. Unlike Democrats, Liberals, Republicans and Conservatives who prefer to use spin to defend their party, Independents do not feel that loyalty. It is called critical thinking and personal growth. Just keep voting your party line like a sheep.

            Just in case you are still not aware why I am upset with the Republican party, they first gave us Sarah Palin as John McCain’s running mate then Romney. Independents would have voted overwhelmingly for John McCain in 2008, if he had a rational running mate, or Jon Huntsman in 2012, and we would not have the PPACA.

            I know you do not want to hear this, or do not agree, but if the Republican party does not come back toward the middle, they will not be in position to make real changes to alter the course of this country.

            You can cry all you want about how we need more Conservatives, and you may be right, but there are not enough voters who agree with you to gain a majority in Congress and win the White House.

          • October 8, 2013 at 4:35 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey Ron, You are right about one thing. I believe there is a lot of buyer’s remorse for Independents who voted for Obama as they are experiencing what it means to be in a Progressive Society now and experiencing Obamacare and all its ramifications. Yes, voters remorse comes into play with any President ever elected since he can’t please all the voters all the time. None of the prior Presidents have ever been as disappointing as the one we have now. He is destroying this country with his Executive Orders, failure to negotiate on any terms of the debt ceiling, failing to extend a waiver to the American People on ACA after granting it to business, making the pain of the shutdown as painful as possible all in the name of an agenda. He closed down the National Parks, monuments, mall to everyday citizens and then let the Immigration Reform people use the mall for their rally.

            Obama has said he will compromise, but not negotiate. Please explain that to me. Is that still “my way or the highway” or does it mean he will actually give a little?

          • October 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm
            Agent says:
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            So Ron, you just can’t stand it when I provide you evidence on just how bad this law is and the effects it is having on real people. You just call it “anecdotal” which sounds a lot like what the administration says. They came out and said there is no “anecdotal evidence” that Obamacare is killing jobs when the evidence is very apparent all across the country. All you need to do is re-read the National Review article I provided to you to know that. By the way, Michelle Malkin is as smart as can be. You should watch her go on Fox sometime. It might do you some good and educate you about what this administration is doing to the country.

          • October 9, 2013 at 9:03 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            President Obama did not close anything down, period. Please cite where in the Constitution it states that a President can shut down (defund) the government. He can only sign or veto what is put in front of him. If Congress gave him a budget and he vetoed it causing the shutdowm, then I would agree with you. I thought you knew how our governent works.

            I am not saying he is without blame, but it is up to Congress, the House and Senate, to agree first.

            I am starting to like Paul Ryan. He understands the political environment and what is important. He will take heat form Conservatives and the Tea Party, which makes him even more appealing, because he thinks handling the overall spending problem, re-opening the government, and paying our bills is more important than using the President’s signature legislation as a hostage.

            http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/08/missing-from-ryans-prescription-to-end-the-shutdown-obamacare/

            You may not think so, but I believe President Obama has been and will continue to be open to spending reductions if they are not conditional to repeal, delaying, or defunding the PPACA.

            Just look at the trend of actual, not projected, spending and the deficit levels since he took office. They going downward. Also, look at my source. In addition, look at the sources that the Heritage Foundation used. They are government websites. Is it OK for a Conservative organization to go to them, but not me?

            http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/08/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2013

            The only thing I cannot stand is your inability to provide data or staistical evidence to support your position(s).

            Please explain one time why you feel the need to convince me how bad the PPACA is, and how it may afect the country going forward, when I have repeatedly stated that I am against the law? Do you have any evidence that I am for the law? I have only criticized Republicans for spending too much time and my tax dollars trying to pass a law that has ZERO chance of passing the Senate, let alone getting signed by the President, or having enough votes for a veto. Also, they should have created and pased theior own health care reform when they had control of all 3 branches.

            Just so you know, myself and most other Independents I speak with are more upset with the Republican selection as their candidate than President Obama being elected then re-elected.

            The administration actually said that there is ONLY anecdotal evidence that the PPACA is killing jobs. Do you know the difference between anecdotal and statistical evidence?

            I do watch Fox, have seen Michelle Malkin and agree with her sometimes. Unlike you, I am open to listening to all sides of an issue, determine with what I agree based on evidence, then use critical thinking to make a decision.

            You have no clue about me, where I get my information, or how an Independent forms their opinion(s). Just like every other Conservative I know. That is why your party will never be in the position to make the changes to this country that you want. Please, just sit on the sidelines and complain like a typical disgruntled fan.

    • October 4, 2013 at 5:51 pm
      Agent says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Ron, I read all of Bob’s posts, do not agree with everything he says, but respect his opinions. He is fighting a losing battle, but his logic usually is impeccable and that infuriates Libby more than anyone else. He has worn her down on several blogs over the course of a couple of years and she ends up calling him a nasty name when her position is untenable. I have a hard time figuring you out because you say you are against PPACA and yet show no passion and just serenely accept what is going on. You took the National Review article and said it is no different than what you saw before without agreeing with the results or expressing any outrage. Doesn’t your blood pressure ever go up higher than 90/60 when you read stuff like this?

      • October 4, 2013 at 7:20 pm
        bob says:
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        To be fair, I’ve kicked her teeth in quite a bit too.

        But I don’t much care on either of those two sides of the coin. Libby and I fight similar in most ways when we debate.

        • October 7, 2013 at 9:03 am
          Libby says:
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          Nice, you two. I’m glad you are happy to have “kicked my teeth in.” Way to go, Big Men.

      • October 9, 2013 at 9:54 am
        Agent says:
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        So Ron, It is amazing to me that you continue to give Obama a pass just like the liberal press has done for 5 years. The so called press conference yesterday contained no hard questions on his role in this mess. You have yet to explain to me his statement that he will compromise, but not negotiate with the House. Apparently, you did not read the Heritage Foundation link you provided. It paints a very bleak picture that even with Sequester and tax increases, Federal spending will go up 69% in 10 years. Instead of criticizing the Republican House, how about lighting into Harry Reid who has not allowed one bill to be debated or voted on to the desk of the President to sign or veto. You call yourself an Independent who weighs the issues, but you are a very liberal Independent who casts blame on anyone Conservative or offers an alternative view from the Progressive agenda. The Progressive agenda has a history of failure everywhere it has been tried and has led to economic ruin in numerous countries. All you have to do in your analytical brain is look at recent history with Greece, France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Great Britain. They are slightly ahead of us with bad fiscal policy, but we are catching them rapidly. Please explain if you can how a President that borrows another Trillion dollars is not adding to the debt of this country. Why, if the President got his tax increase from the rich and Sequester was imposed are we facing a debt limit ceiling so fast? Could it be that Government spending has increased at a more rapid pace than ever and we are implementing the most expensive law ever passed in the history of this country?

        • October 9, 2013 at 10:16 am
          Ron says:
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          Agent,

          If you had adequate reading comprehension skills you would know that I have not given Preasident Obama a pass. I only layed out how the budget process works in our government and his role. I even stated, “I am not saying he is without blame, but it is up to Congress, the House and Senate, to agree first.”

          Why do I need to explain to you anything he says? As I have stated in the past, I am not his the spokesperson nor a blind apologist for the President.

          He did not get the tax increase from the rich he wanted. He compromised from $250k to $450k as the threshold. So, you admit that President Obama is for spending cuts (sequester)in addition to increasing taxes on those who have the means.

          I have cast plenty of blame on President Obama, Senator Reid and Representative Pelosi. You only notice when I call out Republicans and/or Conservatives because you only look for ways we disagree. That is why Independents do not like Conservatives.

          Did you notice that I gave Representative Ryan praise for presenting a feasible solution and adressing the real problems with our spending? Of course you will now call him a RINO. I call him a represenatative of the citizens and what they want.

          How can you say, “Could it be that Government spending has increased at a more rapid pace than ever,” when I just gave you data from a non-governmental site that shows spending has decreased 3 of the 4 years, and the deficit has decreased each year since President Obama took office? You cannot just throw out talking points without evidence. I believe you need to give back your Economics degree and demand a refund. They did not give you the tools necessary to support an arguement with data and statistics. Maybe you can trade it for a Philosophy degree.

          • October 9, 2013 at 10:40 am
            Agent says:
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            Ron, your memory is very selective. Congress and this President had a huge battle on the tax increase on the wealthy. Congress finally agreed to it if the Sequestration cuts were included. Obama then said the sky would be falling and made the cuts as painful as possible. He continues the pain under the current crisis and won’t pay death benefits of fallen soldiers even though the money is there. Does this sound like he cares one whit about the American People? So in your Independent mind, you think a huge annual deficit is a sign that spending has decreased in 3 of 4 years. You must have had some of that new Common Core math education that 2 & 2 = 3. Perhaps it is you that need a refund on your degree.

          • October 9, 2013 at 11:03 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I thought you woudl have been proud of me for going to a Conservative website. I ust cannot win with you, can I?

            Do you know what the word trending means? I do not have a liberal mind, only an open one. I did not say a huge deficit is a sign of anything. Can you at least admit, based on data from a non-governmental site, that the deficit and spending are at lower levels now than President Obama’s first year in office?

            I guess my formula would be, too much-some=less. If you keep doing that, we may get to a surplus.

            President Obama was wrong about his predictions regarding the sequester, just as Republicans were wrong about their predictions regarding the tax increases on the wealthy. See, both sides are wrong again. More evidence why I am an Independent.

            So, I get no response to any of my questions to you? No thoughts about the RINO President Reagan? How about Representative Ryan’s approach? How about statistical evidence that, as you say, “Government spending has increased at a more rapid pace than ever,”? That should be easy to find, if it were true.

            You said, “He continues the pain under the current crisis and won’t pay death benefits of fallen soldiers even though the money is there. Does this sound like he cares one whit about the American People?” I hold all of our federal elected representatives responsible for this. If the Republicans would take anything about the PPACA off of the table, they would get their benefits. Their stubborness is a part of the problem.

          • October 9, 2013 at 12:40 pm
            Agent says:
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            As Ronald Reagan famously said in his debate while running for President, “There you go again”. Calling him a RINO is the ultimate insult. You are showing your true colors again Ron. Reagan did more to straighten out the economy from the disaster Jimmy Carter left him than all the Presidents in recent history. You probably weren’t alive back then, but I was and the economic malaise was terrible with interest rates through the roof, not much economic activity,no job creation and an oil crisis among other things. Carter’s energy policy was to turn down the temperature in your house during the winter and keep it above 80 in the summer. That was it. Meanwhile, we had to wait in line for gasoline at the stations and hope we could get some. It took Reagan 3 years to turn the abysmal economy around with tax cuts, incentives to business and allowing IRA’s and 401K’s to come into being to encourage savings. He repaired the military structure and we actually had airplanes that would fly again. He won the Cold War and Communism collapsed because they couldn’t compete with America. He was exactly the right leader at the right time to straighten out the country. The Progressive leaders in both parties that succeeded him have gotten us right back into the same Carter type mess only 10 times worse and you have the gall to call him a RINO. Shame on you!

          • October 9, 2013 at 1:53 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I was only 9 when he was inaugurated, but I remember much of what was going on during his presidency. I applaud everything he did and his leadership. The point I was making is that he did many of things for which President Obama now gets criticized; tax increases, growing the government, increasing the debt more than all previous presidents combined, etc.

            Every time I point out that Republicans were in power during times when we saw spending, debt and deficit increases you call them RINOs. I was just assuming that President Reagan would be thought of the same way when looking at the results during his presidency.

            Based on the current Republican party make up, I highly doubt he would be called anything but a RINO by most, maybe not you, Conservatives.

            So, it was OK for President Reagan to increase the debt, raise taxes, and grow the government to turn around an econmy and fight a “war”, but not President Obama.

            You never answered this question that I asked you a while ago;
            Please list everything President Reagan did without Congressional approval. Did he use those evil executives orders to circumvent the Constitution or did he need bills put in front of him to sign?

          • October 9, 2013 at 2:23 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Does President Obama get any credit for this?

            http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/politics/shutdown-military-families-benefits/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

  • October 7, 2013 at 1:47 pm
    Wow says:
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    Wow. Don’t you people have jobs?

    • October 9, 2013 at 3:54 pm
      Agent says:
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      Ron, If there is a big enough outcry, the government will usually back down. I have no use for Hagle either. Does the President really know what is going on with the departments and how much pain they are inflicting on the people? If he doesn’t know, why doesn’t he know? Does he not have a legion of advisors who will tell him this is not a good thing to withhold death benefits from soldiers deaths to the survivors and then do something about it? If he didn’t know, he should fire the advisors he has because they are just following an agenda to inflict undue pain on the folks. This is a government of crisis and whoever yells the loudest gets the attention. It took the Fisher House saying they will pay the death benefits to get this administrations attention. I applaud them for their patriotism.

    • October 9, 2013 at 4:10 pm
      Agent says:
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      Wow Ron, you must have been a bright child at age 9 to appreciate what Reagan did to straighten out a colossal mess. I was a young insurance producer with a young family trying to get by and I was very depressed by what Carter did and the effects on my business. Reagan was phenomenal. My memory did not remember him fighting any wars other than the little Granada episode when we went down and rescued medical students from the Cubans. He did increase the military spending since it was in total disarray from cuts by Carter. By the way, when Carter tried to rescue the hostages in Iran, the planes broke down in the desert and had to be abandoned. They didn’t even have spare parts. By the way, any deficit spending that occurred because wonderful Tip O’Neil (D) Mass and Speaker of the House welched on the deal restraining government spending. We now have a Speaker trying to restrain govrnment spending and a President wanting to increase the debt another trillion. The shoe is on the other foot Ron. The fact is the economic turnaround happened and 9 million jobs were created. He also forced the failure of Communism in the Soviet Union and got Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall. He was an uncommon leader the likes of which we haven’t seen since.

  • October 8, 2013 at 3:34 pm
    Paul says:
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    Unbelievable! It’s OK for Democrat Maxine Waters to delay the implementation of the NFIP, but not ok for the Republicans to ask for a delay in implemtation of Obamacare? Can we say “Hypocrites”?



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