Time Running Out to Fix Obamacare Glitches: Experts

By David Morgan | October 11, 2013

  • October 11, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    Agent says:
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    $634 million spent, three years to get it right and it doesn’t work. Were these people contributors to the re-election campaign just like the Green Energy people that promptly went belly up after getting huge loans?

    • October 11, 2013 at 3:05 pm
      ExciteBiker says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      I am skeptical of these “glitch” claims. I went onto healthcare.gov a few days ago to check out all the hullaballoo. The response time was a bit sluggish, but I had no problem registering and using the site.

      Further, if the Republican governors had not intentionally tried to obstruct by deferring the exchange to the federal agency, this might not have been such an issue– but creating a perception of failure around the ACA was precisely the entire point.

      And finally, every big tech launch has issues. Major system upgrades at insurance carriers take years of planning, and despite all efforts they are usually unmitigated disasters that can send shockwaves through departments for months or years. Even incremental updates to the version of a particular agency management system within a single small insurance agency can bring major headaches. Billion dollar online games often see utter and total failures on launch days. Yet people are shocked-SHOCKED–that a complex insurance exchange set up to handle 36 states would have some hiccups.

      • October 11, 2013 at 3:18 pm
        Agent says:
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        Excite, you are the exception rather than the rule if you got online. Horror stories abound all across the nation on huge wait times, no access at all, deleting user and PW’s necessitating starting all over again. This is not to mention the sticker shock when people see the deductibles, out of pocket expenses and premiums. 0 enrollees in Louisiana and only 5 in Iowa. Does that sound like a functional system to you? Not much bang for the buck I would say.

  • October 11, 2013 at 2:52 pm
    perplexed says:
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    There is no end to the insanity.

    • October 11, 2013 at 3:20 pm
      Agent says:
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      Perplexed, You can’t fix stupid. Doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result is the definition I use.

  • October 11, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    PM says:
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    Glad to not be on that project. Few will pick them up for the next project. However they may know more than us. They know the costs and requirements to be subsidized with the new health care. Probably can’t afford healthcare with a job, but can without a job and full subsidy.

    Those IT guys are smarter than we realize….

  • October 11, 2013 at 4:40 pm
    D says:
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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    • October 11, 2013 at 4:59 pm
      Agent says:
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      How about delaying the individual mandate for a year? Problem solved. It will take that long to fix this disaster of a website. No one is saying a citizen can’t apply if they have the patience of Job, but to penalize and tax people for not signing up on a dysfunctional program does not make any sense. If it ends up working and people are getting coverage, then the liberals can crow.

  • October 14, 2013 at 10:54 am
    FFA says:
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    There are a lot of if’s out there.

    • October 14, 2013 at 11:19 am
      Agent says:
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      Hey FFA, do you think we got much bang for our buck with this $634 million website that doesn’t work? Talk about a rip off at taxpayer expense. They only had 3 years to get it set up, tested and it is a joke. They will probably spend another $200 million to get it fixed, but Progressives are very good at spending money, aren’t they?

      • October 14, 2013 at 12:32 pm
        FFA says:
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        Yes I do. An endorsement for Local Agents. My tax dollars are going for good Marketing Fodder. The more issues they have, the better for me.

        • October 14, 2013 at 3:27 pm
          Agent says:
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          I guess I didn’t look at it from your perspective, but as a total waste of taxpayers dollars. The 36 states that don’t have their own site are the ones having all the troubles and getting people signed up. Maybe this disaster that doesn’t work will drive more business to enterprising agents.

          • October 14, 2013 at 3:37 pm
            FFA says:
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            I was a marketing major. I look for opportunity in everything. One thing I know is that for every bad law/rule/regulation, someone makes money off of it. I am viewing this as my turn….

            You would do your existing clients a huge favor by guiding them. Me, I am after new clients… Get my foot in the door with this jack asses help then do a clean sweep of the entire account..

            Your right about the total waste of tax payer $$$$$. everything about this guy has been a waste of money. He cant lead. He cant advance trouble shoot. Only thing he can adjust on the fly is what ever whim comes across his mind….

          • October 14, 2013 at 3:46 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, I had my share of Marketing courses as well, but the major was Economics with minor in Psychology. I was also well trained on how to solicit clients when I started out in the insurance business. We bundle the vast majority of our Personal & Business clients and my Business Clients are also Personal Lines clients. Down here, if you mention Healthcare Insurance, ACA or Obamacare, peoples veins almost pop out of their head. They hate it, get loud about it and I tend to leave it alone. I would rather deal with a P&C account anytime rather than get into such an emotional issue. I wish you luck in your endeavors.

          • October 14, 2013 at 4:00 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent, “Healthcare Insurance, ACA or Obamacare” all provoked a negative response.
            The phrase that pays – Health Insurance. Any phrase with “Care” in it started a bitch fest. As I previously stated, EVERYONE was afraid about what is going to happen to the tax bill. Even the homeless guy was questioning that aspect.
            The best answer to all the “bitchin questions” was I Don’t Know. What ever OBama decides. That, of course, started a whole new bitch fest vein….

            Who actually thought this would work???? Only thing its proven is we have a leader that cant lead and don’t give a shit about anyone but his own ego. Wish Blago would hold off on his appeal until OBama cant hide behind Executive Privilege.

            Maybe if he would have brought in a Pay to Play contractor, it may have been done right????

          • October 14, 2013 at 4:19 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent says “I would rather deal with a P&C account anytime rather than get into such an emotional issue.”

            Me too!

        • October 14, 2013 at 5:45 pm
          FFA says:
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          And I would like to thank all the tax payers for paying big bucks towards my marketing. I am sorry you will never see a return on your investment…

      • October 14, 2013 at 3:53 pm
        txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Kind of like Darth Reagan’s War on Drugs. How’s that going for us? Waste of tax payer dollars wouldn’t you say? Seems to me that the conservatives got a hold of a lot of the booger sugar with all this paranoia and propaganda spewing from their lips. Guess that’s what happens when you listen to Rash Limbaugh and the rest of the knuckledraggers.

        • October 14, 2013 at 4:03 pm
          FFA says:
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          And Reagan has what to do with Tech issues within the Obama Care Law???

          • October 14, 2013 at 4:51 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, the latest report I saw today is that the website has so many issues, they are resorting to paper apps. That does not assure issuance and huge delays in processing. Hey, they will have to hire more people in HHS to process them. Can you see the stacks of apps piling up? It may be thicker than the bill and the 12,000 pages of regulations.

          • October 14, 2013 at 5:00 pm
            FFA says:
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            As soon as I can find a paper app to print, I will be hitting the streets touting “Old School” works. I am old so I can pull it off…..

          • October 15, 2013 at 11:14 am
            txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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            Because if this were called “Uncle Ronnie Care” and had the same tech issues, anyone complaining would be called a commie and un’merican. This just adds to the coded racism.

          • October 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm
            FFA says:
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            Were computers even invented when Reagan was around??? Nice try at the back door racism crap. Color of his skin has nothing to do with his incompetency. He is what he is – an Illinois Politician. Close ties to convicted felons Rezco & Levine. Just a crook that aint been caught yet.

          • October 16, 2013 at 8:41 am
            txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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            Yes computers were invented at that time. They even came with monitors, a mouse, and a keyboard. I won’t even go there with the relationships to convicted felons. You can’t even be a high level republican in politics with out having a team of tenants from Club Fed bankrolling your campaign. You also should stop making references to Illinois all the time, the world is a much larger place.

          • October 16, 2013 at 11:44 am
            FFA says:
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            How is OBama working out for you in your neck of the woods?
            How many people do you know personally that have lost their jobs or had their hours reduced or are losing their benefits?
            You know anyone personally being effected by the govt shut down? Lost any business due to Govt Intrusion? Foreclosures?

            Look at the real estate deal he did. well documented in Cook County.

          • October 16, 2013 at 1:04 pm
            txmouthbreatherboogereatertx says:
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            I for one lost my job. 13 years in Management in Commercial and Personal Banking until AIG bought my bank as an “investment” about a quarter of the way in to my career. Now working as a P&C producer making less than a 1/3 of what I use to make having to start out in a whole new industry. It’s kind of what you have to do once the Romney run Hedge Funds and Private Equity firms by assets from corrupt companies for pennies on the dollar, load them up with debt and then shut them down for all the tax write offs they can eat.

          • October 16, 2013 at 1:19 pm
            FFA says:
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            I am in discussion with someone in the same scenario you have gone through. BMO Harris let him go. Jumped into the Mortgage Industry. Jumped sales by $1.5M @ month (if I recall correctly) but wasn’t enough of an increase for the head guy. So, they let him go and he don’t know what he is going to do. Restarting in a new career at 55 wasn’t in the cards.

            Too bad the Govt isn’t doing anything to stop what happened to you. So long as its legal, it will continue.

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:19 pm
            Libby says:
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            It’s not only legal, it’s considered a smashing success to people like Agent. Money, money and more money is what they worship.

            I, too, lost my job in 2008 and am currently making 1/2 of what I made in an industry I have been a part of for almost 34 years. Now I make as much as I made in 1993.

          • October 16, 2013 at 5:56 pm
            Agent says:
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            It doesn’t, but the pseudo Planet takes every opportunity to slam the greatest President of the past 100 years. He talks a lot like Planet as well, misspells a lot words so we don’t take him too seriously.

  • October 14, 2013 at 12:24 pm
    FFA says:
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    During my community event, “market research” tells me if you call it Affordable Health Care or Health Care or OBama Care, people get really pissed off. I found no one that thinks this is a good idea… I found people were very concerned as to what is going to happen to their tax bill. I was face to face with well over 1200 people. After I started referring to it as Health Insurance, I gathered well over 50 names & ph numbers. I was pulling the tag team on people. Had a producer in front of the booth chatting Home & Auto. I was behind the table asking simply “Do you want information on Health Insurance?” KISS It….

    Hi Lites of the event – A trucking Company with 13 trucks on the road. A General Contractor. A bunch of Artisan Contractors, a beauty Salon and numerous Home & Auto chats…. I had a walking Bill Board that sent a lot of people over to me. Pissed off a whole bunch of out of town vendors and City Hall too. Oh Well…. I have to survive….. Now, its time to sell some insurance.

    Total Cost of the event was about $1800 for product and labor. Raised about $500.00 for my veterans group.

    • October 14, 2013 at 5:21 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, You should be able to get a paper app off the Blue Cross website since that is where I got mine. It was 10 pages minimum.

      • October 14, 2013 at 5:40 pm
        FFA says:
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        Thanks. Right now, I am just dragging through today as the week end was busy hustling and bustling. Got a bunch of crap from City Hall / Chamber / Down Town Partnership / Event Planners about my promo. They have all proven they just don’t give a crap about Joe Small Business Man that has been a Main Street Agent for over 20 years. People in this town been good to me for a long time. I feed over 1200 people FOR FREE and I get an ear full of shit…

        • October 14, 2013 at 6:17 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hang in there FFA. Getting a load of crap from government and others is standard fare for up there I am sure. My Chamber had a little workshop for ACA here and almost no one attended. We are all just sick of it and want it to go away. Looks like it will still implode at any time. We don’t have to repeal it or defund it at this point. Just wait until people have to fill out a paper app. The low information voteres will never get it filled out accurately and then have to wait while the government tries to input it into the defective site. Boy, this is sure promising.

          • October 16, 2013 at 1:24 pm
            FFA says:
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            They tried, buy could not legally shut me down… I fought the law and I won!

            Would have been a PR Night Mare for them.

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            What’s their beef with you?

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:32 pm
            FFA says:
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            I was giving away Food & Water where the Carni Vendors were trying to sell at $9.00 for a Hot Dog and $3.00 for a bottle of water.

            Then I put an 18 foot high Goul with a free hot dog sign on his back wandering around the fest.

            Health Department, Police Department and Zoning all paid a visit along with the event planner. Cops though they had something when they asked me for a plat survey. But, I was ready. Had all my duck lined up.

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:38 pm
            Libby says:
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            What’s a plat survey?

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            FFA says:
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            A Legal Description of property. Show the exact dimensions of a parcel complete with coordinates off a common point. In my towns case, the center line on the road. Not something a typical renter would have on hand. I know where to get them from, so…..

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:51 pm
            FFA says:
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            As we type, my producer is sitting down with a walk in. I have one of my other staff members training a friend of mine on this stuff too.

          • October 16, 2013 at 7:23 pm
            FFA says:
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            Well, my Mil $$ Households Marketing plan is working. The guy that walked in don’t even come close to getting a subsidy / tax credit. But, he does have pre x’s and needs insurance.

            Still, no young people (under 30) have inquired…

          • October 17, 2013 at 8:40 am
            Libby says:
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            FFA – more than likely the young crowd will be enrolling on-line. They’re of the tech generation and walk-in is not their style. How much revenue from your pre-X’er?

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:38 am
            FFA says:
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            Premium is over $1K monthly at 10%.

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:48 am
            Libby says:
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            Not bad for an hour’s work. How much goes to the house v. the producer?

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:54 am
            FFA says:
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            25 Producer 75 House.

          • October 17, 2013 at 10:18 am
            Libby says:
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            Well, good luck. I hope you write a ton of them.

  • October 14, 2013 at 3:22 pm
    Rusty says:
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    This is the same government that is going to run our healthcare system? Gee, I feel so confident we’ll all be taken care of.

    I’m sure if a private company was taking on a responsibility like this, the system would be up and running with no problems because “glitches” like this waste capital investment. But the government doesn’t care about waste, efficiency or getting things right because there is no incentive to get it right the first time. After all, it’s only taxpayer money and there’s plenty of that. Even if not, they can always borrow more – just lift the debt ceiling.

    • October 14, 2013 at 3:39 pm
      Agent says:
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      Rusty, the bloodsuckers could just raise the marginal tax rate again. There are few taxes these people don’t like to further their agenda.

      • October 14, 2013 at 3:49 pm
        FFA says:
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        Agent Says “could just raise the marginal tax rate again.”
        Could???? WILL!!!! Its just a matter of time.

        • October 16, 2013 at 6:13 pm
          Agent says:
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          Yes, we couldn’t get the 3.8% Medical Device Tax taken out of Obamacare because they just love making jobs go away in that industry. I saw a story months ago of a manufacturer in Indiana that wanted to expand and build another plant and hire another 150 workers and they had to belay that plan because of the Medical Device tax. Maybe it is just me, but doesn’t a higher price on medical devices make healthcare more expensive when they use them in surgery for knee replacement, hip replacement surgery and the like? I thought this was the Affordable Care Act and everyone would love it when they saw what was in it.

    • October 14, 2013 at 3:39 pm
      FFA says:
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      Rusty is in the real world. When will OBama be?

    • October 14, 2013 at 4:32 pm
      Libby says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Rusty – the 13 states whose government put together their exchanges are seemingly having no trouble. If you are in a State that did not have the foresight or where-with-all to create your own exchange, bitch to your Governor. There is no-one else to blame.

      • October 14, 2013 at 4:47 pm
        FFA says:
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        Libby, when this thing fails, there will be plenty of blame to go around on both sides as well as federal and state blame….
        Its all a big game to the politicians as well as an ego trip… Not a single one of them on either side – state or fed – gives a damn about Joe / Jane average American….

        I seen on a prior post you have come to the “Fire Them All” Mentality. Hopefully, the rest of the country gets there too. I hope there is major change.

        • October 14, 2013 at 4:57 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, Libby is reluctant to blame the Federal Government for this colossal mess. When the people tell you they don’t want government intervention, the politicians should think twice about doing it. Instead, they plowed right ahead and didn’t rest until it was passed. Then, they hired a geek firm to design a site for an enormous amount of money and it was totally inadequate and frought with terrible problems. Remember them saying it would be so simple, just like shopping on Amazon.com? Not so much. Paper apps on the way! Good luck with that.

  • October 14, 2013 at 5:05 pm
    Water Bug says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    As a cancer survivor I can’t wait to be 76 so I have no Medicare coverage for cancer. I guess the end of life presentations I will have to attend will make me OK with being killed by my own government

    • October 14, 2013 at 5:14 pm
      Agent says:
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      • October 16, 2013 at 4:34 pm
        Libby says:
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        You’d be much better off relying on my interpretation, because at least I’ve read it and studied it. You, on the other hand, are entirely misinformed about it, as evidenced by the amount of misinformation/disinformation you try to spread on this blog. I’m only here to keep you honest.

        And yes, Waterbug, there are NO death panels in the ACA.

    • October 14, 2013 at 5:19 pm
      FFA says:
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      water Bug, your a rare breed. I don’t hear too many people making the claim you are. I wont pray for you because you do not need prayers. I will stand and salute you! Congrats on your victory!

    • October 15, 2013 at 10:37 am
      jw says:
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      I call BS

      From PolitiFact Oregon:

      http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2013/jun/08/chain-email/will-seniors-be-denied-cancer-treatment-under-obam/

      As for the cancer-related statement, the email cites page 272 of H.R. 3200 to back up its assertion that seniors at 76 are not eligible for cancer treatment. Later, the email specifies that under Section 1145 of H.R. 3200, “cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient’s age.”

      Neither statement is accurate. There is no rationing, based on age or otherwise, on cancer treatment under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act signed into law in March 2010. Likewise, there is no rationing or cut-off age in 2009’s H.R. 3200.

      • October 15, 2013 at 11:31 am
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        jw – Don’t you know that Republicans will believe any and all BS the right flings out there? The more ridiculous, the more they rant and rave about it. It’s like they love getting all riles up by the fear-mongerers. It suits their agenda, whereas the majority of us can spot bullshit from a mile away.

        • October 15, 2013 at 1:31 pm
          jw says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          I know, Libby, but every now and then I reach my limit and have to throw a fact out there. ;)

          • October 15, 2013 at 3:04 pm
            Libby says:
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            Keep it up. We have to be the voice of reason.

          • October 15, 2013 at 6:41 pm
            FFA says:
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            “Blind faith in your government could get you killed”
            Any one know who quote that is?????

          • October 16, 2013 at 8:40 am
            Libby says:
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            The Boss. And I don’t mean Agent.

          • October 16, 2013 at 11:48 am
            FFA says:
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            WOW. Did you get that off the top of your head???
            I though I was the only one left with one of the CDs.
            Do you remember what the reference was to???

          • October 16, 2013 at 11:53 am
            Libby says:
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            CD’s? I have vinyl, baby!

          • October 16, 2013 at 3:43 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby and JW:

            I have seen this 76 comment thrown out once. One time, in this journal spot.

            This does not mark the majority of republicans. At all.

            Libby, don’t label republican beliefs.

            JW, don’t agree with her on something that is clearly untrue.

            You claim you’re not partisan. So don’t act like it.

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – just because you’ve seen a comment thrown out there does not make it true. Just as Obama is not a Muslim, he was not born overseas, there are no death panels in the ACA, Obama didn’t name November National Muslim Month, care is not rationed in the ACA, or any of the other drivel the right takes, embraces, and runs with.

            Believe me, I’ve seen every doozy come from Agent, Perplexed, and Always Amazed. And they actually believe it! Sad commentary on common sense. Or even a simple google search…

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:17 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Take a breath, and read.

            It’s usually me that gets pissed off too quickly. I did not say the 76 comment was true. I said the majority of republicans do not believe the 76 statement.

            Why would I say they didn’t believe it, if I simultaneously did believe it?

            What I meant by saying I have seen it said once, is exactly how rare it is: It is not the norm belief.

            Death panels was not the norm belief on the right. Though at the same time, it was not a bad belief to have. If it weren’t for republicans getting pissed off about it, I’m sure the democrats would have added something insane to the bill. You don’t think so, but that’s really just your political allegiance there. You’re perfectly willing to believe that republicans will let people die without healthcare, and will buy the entire government with the Koch brothers etc, but no no, none of that happens on the left, right? That is a pun by the way.

            Obama being a muslim was not the norm belief on the right, however, as an aside on that one: Don’t call it that outrageous. He has family from Kenya. Also, you seem to confuse the Obama being a Muslim, with the matter of where he was born, which shows based on your “obama is a muslim” and the reason I’m sure you find it outrageous is his Hawaii birth certificate. Being born in Hawaii doesn’t mean you aren’t a Muslim. Muslim is a faith, not a location. And you say those on the right are stupid… But more on point, you really think it is impossible he was not born in the U.S.? It is in the realm of possibility. His mother randomly showed up in Hawaii to give birth to him? Why didn’t she do that for Obama’s brother? Why is he the only one in his family in the U.S.? Just a lucky guy I suppose? It is not outside of the realm of possibility.

            Do I personally believe he is? No. Do I realize it’s a valid concern? Yes. Just because you don’t believe the evidence on the other side, does not make that evidence cease to exist.

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:44 pm
            Libby says:
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            “you seem to confuse the Obama being a Muslim, with the matter of where he was born.” No I don’t. Those are two totally separate issues. And I am not stupid, as I understand that a Muslim is one that follows the faith of Islam. It is not, in and of itself, a faith.

            “Just because you don’t believe the evidence on the other side, does not make that evidence cease to exist.” What evidence on the other side? There is no “evidence”. Only suppositions, accusations, wishful thinking, and alot of hallucinating.

            And YES, Bob, it WAS/IS the mindset of many, if not the majority, of the hard-core Republicans out there. Especially when it’s being espoused by Senators and Congressmen. Just take a look at this blog.

          • October 16, 2013 at 5:22 pm
            bob says:
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            You’re funny. When you word it like that, I suppose that you’re right Libby. I can’t argue with that statement. The majority of extreme people are extreme.

            The majority or republicans are not.

            Moving on: It is not an extreme / wishful thinking / delusional belief. It’s actually a pretty normal one.

            If Bush W had parents from Russia, no family here, and was in bed with Koch brothers, you would question his ability to be president.

            Just because you disagree doesn’t make it outrageous and unfounded. It is perfectly within the realm of possibility, and is actually the preferable belief when you think about it.

            Because the reason I accept Obama is not a Kenyan/Muslim it is that I know Obama is just a bad guy, he left his family in Kenya and doesn’t give a flying #%@ about them. Take for example his brother, who has continually talked poorly of Obama. Why do you think the guy is so ticked off?

            Moving on: The Obama is a Muslim is less commonly believed then the Obama is a Kenyan belief. The Kenyan one had some degree of traction, with the “birthers” as you called them. I thought you were going that route. It still wasn’t widely believed. The Muslim one however was the extreme minority. It was barely believed at all. How many republicans do you know of that believed that? I don’t mean ones on blogs. I mean people, you have met, in real life?

          • October 17, 2013 at 8:36 am
            jw says:
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            bob, what?

            “Libby and JW: I have seen this 76 comment thrown out once. One time, in this journal spot.”
            **OK, I was actually referencing ALL the BS, not just this comment when I said I reach my limit.

            “JW, don’t agree with her on something that is clearly untrue.”
            **You’re going to have to further explain this – I’m having a blonde moment.

            “You claim you’re not partisan. So don’t act like it.”
            **I don’t remember claiming not to be partisan. I have opinions that fall on both sides of the conservative/liberal debate, but I don’t think that’s a claim to not be partisan. I don’t care on which side my opinion falls, but I will voice my opinion when I feel like it.

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:31 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – Bush W didn’t have to have parents from Russia, no family here, and be in bed with the Koch brothers for me to question his ability to be President. He just had to open his mouth. :-)

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:46 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – If you think that’s funny, you’ll really love this! It actually made me laugh.

            Agent – I know you never look at any of my links, but you’d like this one.

            http://obamamythbusters.com/

          • October 17, 2013 at 3:37 pm
            bob says:
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            ““Libby and JW: I have seen this 76 comment thrown out once. One time, in this journal spot.”
            **OK, I was actually referencing ALL the BS, not just this comment when I said I reach my limit.

            “JW, don’t agree with her on something that is clearly untrue.”
            **You’re going to have to further explain this – I’m having a blonde moment.

            “You claim you’re not partisan. So don’t act like it.”
            **I don’t remember claiming not to be partisan. I have opinions that fall on both sides of the conservative/liberal debate, but I don’t think that’s a claim to not be partisan. I don’t care on which side my opinion falls, but I will voice my opinion when I feel like it.”

            On the last one: So will I. However, I won’t claim you guys believe something you don’t. You said you agreed to Libby when she said republicans will believe whatever they want to believe, whether it’s true or not. You agreed. I mentioned partisan politics, because believing republicans will believe whatever they want to believe is incredibly partisan, and makes me disbelieve your comment that you will make comments on either side of the spectrum.

            When I said don’t agree with Libby on something that is clearly not true, her opening comment that republicans would believe whatever they want to, whether it’s true or not.

          • October 17, 2013 at 3:41 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            That is quite possibly the funniest thing you have posted.

            I do hope you did that intentionally for the sake of both the myths, and the myth busted comments.

            That is the epitome of most political polarized politics and rebuttals right there

            :)

          • October 17, 2013 at 4:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yes, I did. I am nothing if not punny.

          • October 18, 2013 at 6:39 pm
            jw says:
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            bob said “On the last one: So will I. However, I won’t claim you guys believe something you don’t. You said you agreed to Libby when she said republicans will believe whatever they want to believe, whether it’s true or not. You agreed. I mentioned partisan politics, because believing republicans will believe whatever they want to believe is incredibly partisan, and makes me disbelieve your comment that you will make comments on either side of the spectrum.

            When I said don’t agree with Libby on something that is clearly not true, her opening comment that republicans would believe whatever they want to, whether it’s true or not.”

            I did agree with Libby, but I really didn’t think is was that big of a deal. I still say I don’t remember claiming to be non-partisan or partisan. I’ve listed my conservative opinions more than once, if you didn’t see them, then you wouldn’t know I’ve said them. Does it matter that much? I’ll list some for you if it will make you happy.

          • October 21, 2013 at 1:01 pm
            bob says:
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            JW:

            I don’t much mind, I know you have some conservative beliefs.

            I have some liberal ones.

            I was just saying a statement like agreeing that republicans always comment without knowing what they are talking about is just going to cause someone to get upset.

          • October 21, 2013 at 3:09 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – let me ask you a question. When you heard that tidbit about 76 year-olds not getting cancer treatment according to the ACA, did you believe it? Or did you say “That doesn’t sound right. I’d better research it.”??

          • October 21, 2013 at 3:31 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            I know enough about politics to know that republicans would have a hay day with it. I did not believe it.

            It was a friend of a friend’s facebook. I actually posted on her link stating she was incorrect and told her this was giving conservatives a bad name.

        • October 16, 2013 at 12:12 pm
          FFA says:
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          The Needle on my record player finally crapped out a few years ago. Made back in the day when things lasted. Probably made in America before all the dumb ass politicians started to export our jobs.

          My brother needs a new dish washer. Sales man stated he should only expect it to last three years no matter how much you pay for it.

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:21 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yeah, I’ve been worried about the lifespan of my needle, too. Can you get them anywhere anymore?

          • October 16, 2013 at 2:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            That’s a job for my brother. I’ll ask.

          • October 16, 2013 at 3:10 pm
            Agent says:
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            Very few washers are made in the US except Maytag. All the others are made elsewhere, mostly China and mostly crap.

  • October 14, 2013 at 5:08 pm
    FFA says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Reluctant, but will. I can see her eyes opening a little more every day. She thinks with her heart. World needs people like her to keep people like me in check….

    • October 14, 2013 at 5:19 pm
      Agent says:
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      Yes, FFA. Libby has said she is having reservations about Obamacare, but still wants a Public Option. Can you just imagine a total government health system? They have done so well administering all the other programs, it should just be wonderful. We can then appreciate our 80% tax rate and be grateful for it.

      She and Ron say they are Independents who are smart and take their time making up their minds about politicians before deciding who to vote for. You and I can spot a Progressive big spender a mile off and make up our minds. Not so easy for an Independent so they continue to sit on the fence and then vote liberal almost every time.

      • October 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm
        FFA says:
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        There are several posters in this blog that over analyze. Then they take their analysis and don’t waive off of that. I am one of them. When this first came about, my first question – Who is going to pay for this? Answer – tax payers. I had no other questions until it got rammed down my throat….

        • October 14, 2013 at 6:22 pm
          Agent says:
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          Rammed is right FFA. Healthcare is not free. Someone has to pay for the subsidies they are giving out, right? The quick answer is you and me, not the 50% that pay no Federal Taxes and receive all the benefits. We ruined Healthcare for 85% of the population so 15% could get it and before it is through, we will still have millions not covered and a bankrupted economy. What a deal!

        • October 15, 2013 at 3:40 pm
          Agent says:
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          You are right FFA. Bob tends to be the analyzer in chief and writes whole columns, especially when he is dealing with Ron and Libby. I have noticed that Ron is afraid to challenge Bob asking him to post a website to back up the analysis. Libby usually rants for a while, then calls Bob a name and that is the end of it. You and I are the Independents here and have a business to run. They are doing it on their employers dime.

          • October 16, 2013 at 8:10 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I am not afraid to challenge Bob, period. I, however, will not engage or continue to debate someone who needs to use insults and put others down in order to build himself up.

            I only ask for a source (does not need to be a website) when someone makes a statement of which I do not agree is a fact and should be supported by some data or statistic. Most of what Bob posts are his own interpretation of history. He is the source of his information.

            You like to make statements about how President Obama has destroyed our economy, spread the wealth and how Conservative President Reagan was. Everything I have researched has proven otherwise and you cannot provide a source, outside of Conservative websites and blogs, to support your position. I know you make the blantantly false statement that I only use government websites, but you need to expand your sources to include those with which you may not agree just to get additional perspective.

            In my opinion, there is way too much misinformation being flung by both sides and we need to be able to cite where we get our information. If you were to start citing your sources, you would have a far greater chance of convincing me that you are right.

          • October 16, 2013 at 8:43 am
            Libby says:
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            Ron – Agent gets his “facts” from chain emails. Like the one circulating saying you will have no cancer coverage or treatment after age 76. He eats that sh*t up.

          • October 16, 2013 at 3:31 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent, I can speak for myself.

            Ron,

            I don’t have my own version of history, and I went over the types of areas that I do not provide sources for, which are only areas that don’t need them. I won’t do so again.

            And yes, you actually are afraid to debate with me, which is why you back petal after making insults, and then try to make it look like you were just being innocent.

            Most recently when I called you a punk, you knew better on what you were talking about, you merely played the comment back as a method of being a smart @$$ so I called you one. I don’t have the time to direct all your what if’s and methods of discourse.

            There’s a reason why I recently asked you how you measured republicans as being equal in debt, considering they had majority in 1957 time period for 2 years, and the had 11 years in 1995 to 2006, during which time they had several surplus years. As a percentage, if we measure the republicans by those who make the spending bills, the majority have been made by republican congress.

            Essentially, I asked you that to catch you in a hypocrite double standard. You said presidents don’t determine debt, yet, somehow, republicans who have had time periods where they weren’t in majority for about 40 years, and if you include since 1930, you have somewhere around 20 years total out of 80, that somehow these guys have a history of causing debt when about 4 of those years they had surpluses (works out to about 20% of the time that republicans have majority congress there is a surplus.).

            I’m just really curious how you say history says otherwise, unless you mean to try and state that tax cuts from Bush W lowered the revenues rather than the recessions he presided over. Considering the deficits and revenues in his years were not bad at all other than 2008. Recessions lower revenues. Same for Obama which is why I don’t attribute the lower revenues to him but I do the spending, which you refuse to attach to him. Somehow you attribute spending to Reagan though, when he never supported a spending plan. The democrat congress refused to give him reductions.

            So, how can you possibly prove that republicans are just as bad for debt eh?

            You never defended it, because you can’t. That’s a long work around I know, but it’s accurate. And as for source quoting, I don’t need to source quote the recession, look it up yourself, and look at the deficit years, then look at the revenues. They went down, then rose back up to 2.7 trillion under Bush W until the recession. The debt levels at that time point with the lower taxes were completely acceptable, so the tax rates were not the cause. Thus, you cannot hold Bush W responsible for the debt levels which went along with a recession. You can’t hold Obama for the lower receipts as a result of the recession either. But you can hold him accountable for spending.

            You’re not a good moderate at all.

          • October 16, 2013 at 3:33 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            Also, I do not insult others to bring myself up. And I’ll insult you now for saying that, punk.

            Moving on: You clearly made an insult that I never fact check, or source quote, to the degree you do.

            That is putting me down to build yourself up, and I will insult you and call your mind puny when you do it, because while you didn’t word it like that to me, that’s what you meant Ron.

            Don’t act high and mighty and then claim I insult others to build myself up. What you’re doing, by stating that I do it, is actually in itself not appropriate. You’re a human. Act like it. When the debate turns to insults, and you partake as well, say “FINE” like I do to Libby often.

            I rarely tell her, unless she insults me stating my tact is poor, that her tact is poor. I say it in response. It’s because I don’t care. I consider myself equal. You don’t. It’s clear you consider yourself superior. Don’t get me started on the psychology of it Ron. Let’s keep on track for once.

      • October 15, 2013 at 11:37 am
        Libby says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Agent – I never claimed to be independent now. I was for over 20 years, but now I am a registered Democrat. I am neither undecided nor indecisive.

        And yes, a public option – no matter how f’ed up – would be better than NO healthcare for the millions that are currently uninsured. And yes, it would be paid for by tax revenue. But it would be perfectly feasible to do that if we got rid of agri subsidies and other corporate welfare, closed the tax loopholes enjoyed only by the extremely rich, and got our defense spending under control.

        Smaller, but smarter, better, government is what I am for.

        • October 15, 2013 at 12:51 pm
          Agent says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          Libby, since you and Ron have trouble understanding the debt and raising the debt ceiling, let me explain it in simple terms.

          Suppose you had a sewage back up in your neighborhood and discovered sewage backed up clear to the ceiling in your home. What would you do about it, raise the ceiling or pump out all the shit. Is that simple enough for you and Ron or are you sticking to your story?

          • October 15, 2013 at 1:24 pm
            Libby says:
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            Agent – that is so 2 weeks ago.

            And I have no problem understanding what will happen if we do not raise the debt ceiling. It is the Republicans, with their hidden agenda, that don’t care what happens. They are all too willing for America to lose it’s credit rating and be unable to borrow money to pay it’s bills all so they can point the finger at Obama.

            It’s dispicable.

          • October 15, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            The problem is, Congress already approved of paying for that sewage backup years ago and now Mother Nature wants to be paid for causing the backup. And, if we don’t pay Mother Nature, our nation goes into default. Heck, even the Koch Bros are getting nervous!

            I’m trying to stick with your analogy, which just might be the worst analogy in IJ history, by the way. Then again, there were those out there using beastiality analogies when discussing marriage equality, so I guess it’s not quite the worst.

          • October 15, 2013 at 4:42 pm
            FFA says:
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            Cap, the problem is the govt spends way too much money on BS. People like my sis in law (works for ss) may not get paid, but we are sending money to Egypt, Jordan ect…. Meanwhile, she don’t know if she is or isn’t getting paid… How would you like to have that conversation with your mortgage company – I cant make my payment today because the govt thought it more important to send money to foreign nations then to pay me what they owe me for working so I can pay my mortgage…

            They are all trash in DC. Not a one of them gives a damn about the average person in the home land…

          • October 15, 2013 at 5:03 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            FFA – I agree we need to have a conversation about where our money goes. Yes, too much goes to foreign aid, corporate welfare, and The Pentagon. But, that doesn’t negate the fact Congress has, for years (ever since Reagan turned us into a debtor nation) ran up the bill and we are needing to make payment or risk default.

          • October 15, 2013 at 6:34 pm
            FFA says:
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            Well Cap, there have been a lot of presidents that sat by watching it go past $1M, $5M, $1B, $1T, $10T and not one of them had enough brains to say – Hey, wait a minute???…. That spans both party lines for a long long time. How many different administrations sine Reagon on each side watch us pass them marks?? Now Obama wants to push it to $17T??? What comes after a Trillion???? Stay tuned, we should be finding out in our life time….

            As far as I remember, Reagan was shaking the dice hoping this would work. When it didn’t, no one stopped it… Now, its out of hand and OBama keeps send the checks to foreign nations and not my sis in law that lives here and actually works here.

          • October 16, 2013 at 9:08 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            FFA,
            I agree, it’s been a problem stemming from both parties. I also blame President Clinton for at least some of today’s national woes with the repeal of Glass Steagall. In today’s environment, both sides have tried to put together a budget that reduces the debt but they can’t seem to agree on where to cut. Further, it’s not just a matter of cutting but there needs to be some additional revenue as well. There are those on The Right that like to equate the gov’t with a personal household budget. Ever seen anyone simply make cuts to their spending and become rich?

            As long as these parties can’t make some compromise, the spending problem will continue. We have seen good progress made on the deficit, though. I encourage that to continue.

          • October 17, 2013 at 7:33 pm
            bob says:
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            “corporate welfare”

            Is by far the most ignorant phrase I’ve ever heard.

            Planet, you act as if the people in the corporation are not getting taxed enough because the corporation itself is not having it’s profits taxed.

            The corporations profits should not be taxed separate from income. Those profits go to two things: Reinvestment, and income for corporate employees. The typical corporation pays it’s top CEO 1% of it’s total revenues. So when you tax the corporation more, you are taxing the 99%. THAT s math. And you can google the 1% on the top CEO’s to verify. Michael Dell, and the owner of Papa John’s for example follow this in yearly annual income.

            If you want to tax the rich more, go after their income tax range, remove deductions, etc.

            Corporate taxes hurt the middle class.
            Capital gains taxes hurt capital growth. You can’t state that capital taxes, don’t harm capital. They can’t simultaneously bring in revenues, without taking it from capital investment.

            It’s pure logic Planet. Pure logic.

            We shouldn’t tax corporate profits at an average of roughly 25% (don’t debate that loopholes make it lower, the rate is at a top much higher than 25%, 25% is the average effective rate)
            We shouldn’t tax capital at a top rate in line with marginal rates of 39.6.

            It’s easy math, math you would do if you were not obsessed with the word and concept “fair” democrats threw out, and you focused instead on “research” “statistics” “math” etc.

            You do realize as a side comment: Ignoring people when they say bad things makes sense. Ignoring people when they say the right things, and all that they say, is by far the most polarizing action to do, and is in fact, something that makes you a bad person, and a bad Christian.

            It doesn’t give you a high ground. Just had to throw that out there.

          • October 21, 2013 at 11:28 am
            Agent says:
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            As a result of the debt deal reached last week, the debt increased over $340 Billion which set a new record. Previous record was a little over $200 Billion. We are now officially over the $17 Trillion mark in debt. Way to go liberals in hastening the demise of the country.

        • October 16, 2013 at 3:37 pm
          bob says:
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          Closing loopholes wouldn’t help.

          During the 1940′s, when corporate receipts were high, the percentage of revenues we had to GDP was about 20%.

          When the rate was less than half for the top marginal rate, and corporate loopholes existed during Clinton, and the top corporate rate was lower effective wise, it was also 20%. This is because of the fact that the rate was too high, too many loopholes were closed, and it was harmful. We don’t need to close loopholes, we need corporate friendly environments, and business friendly environments. We don’t need to close loop holes and return to 40′s type of government.

          Moving on: I agree on the public option. Just not only public healthcare. It makes sense.

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:18 pm
            Libby says:
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            I disagree about the loopholes. If loopholes are closed, there will be more revenue collected. If spending is cut, there will be less revenue going out. The difference between the two can be used to pay off debt.

            One thing I know after 34 years in the insurance business, there is nothing so bad that new business can’t solve it. We need more money coming in and less going out.

            See, Agent, I DO understand math.

          • October 16, 2013 at 5:08 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Let’s say you take half of a corporation’s profits, and let’s say they make 10 dollars off of every 1 they invest.

            Now let’s say you take 25% of a corporation’s profits, and they instead expand with 75% of their dollars at a 10 to 1 ratio.

            You can see which will lead to a lower debt to GDP ratio, especially when considering how many jobs will be needed/created. Debt/GDP is not just the amount of revenues compared to GDP. It is also the amount of jobs compared to GDP, as less jobs, means more spending is needed. We need a business friendly, investment friendly, capital growth friendly, economy.

            Regardless: The amount of revenues in FDR’s presidency, compared to those in Clinton’s. How do you explain that away? The average effective rate, and rate paid by corporations was down. The total brought in as a whole, (likely due to the earnings increases from the middle class) was also 20%, despite having a marginal top rate of 36.9 percent (less than half FDR’s rate, look it up Libby, how do you explain this away?) and an effective rate for corporations at less than half.

          • October 16, 2013 at 5:10 pm
            bob says:
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            That should read “39.6″

            I must be dyslexic today.

          • October 16, 2013 at 5:14 pm
            bob says:
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            And that should also tie it together, I just kind of assume people do that:

            If they make 10 dollars for every 1 dollar, they need to have more workers with the investments as they grow. Whereas if you make the cost of doing business higher, their only real option is to become more efficient with less people.

            Which do you think is going on now, as corporate profits are at record highs? Reinvestment of a plethora of capital, or restriction based on a lack of capital, and now the government is saying they need more capital from the corporations (which you seem to agree). If you go for more capital from them, they are going to restrict employment and focus on profit margins on that basis. It is proven that low skill jobs die out in high tax environments. Not everyone can have a college degree job. You want to kill out every low skill job? Like let’s say starting as a paper filer at an insurance job, and working your way up to underwriter? Remind me what happened to that? I may be talking from not only personal experience here, but also this is where many early on underwriters came into their practice. The left over capital was spent on low cost, low skill jobs, those people then built up into better positions. Now, which job do you think will go first when they lack capital? The filer, or the underwriter?

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:01 am
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I want loopholes closed for the wealthiest Americans, because they seem to be the only ones that can take advantage of them.

            If someone makes $1M, but because of loopholes they pay only a net 10% tax rate then they pay less tax than someone making $500,000 with a 28% tax rate. How is that right? And don’t tell me the $40,000 the $1M guy saved goes into the economy and creates jobs. It may or it may not.

          • October 17, 2013 at 3:46 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            The average corporate effective tax rate is not 10%. It’s closer to 25%. Even Clinton states this:

            http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58275.html

            Moving on: Tax code is not about “fairness”.

            If a lower tax rate for corporations helps the people in the corporations, it’s a good thing to have lower. Also I should note: “corporate revenue” goes to all corporate employees, and corporate investments. It does not magically get taxed at that rate, and then not taxed as income for the guys making all the money. The guys making all the money do get taxed at the top 39.6% top rate. It is perfectly fair. Taxing the corporation separate of the income of the rich in the corporation, is a double tax as it is, doesn’t make sense, and increases the cost of doing businesses.

            Taxing corporations more just to make it look more on paper does not make sense. At all.

            The tax code should exist for what is best for all. Not what appears the most fair on paper.

          • October 17, 2013 at 4:01 pm
            bob says:
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            And Libby, before you say it isn’t a double tax because that is corporate profits that are taxed as corporate revenues:

            It doesn’t matter. Those profits will eventually either be reinvested, or paid in the form of income tax. So one of two things are diminished by corporate taxes: Either future corporate incomes, or future corporate investments.

            If you want more money, take if from income tax from the wealthy. It works. See the 20% comment I made before. Lower corporate tax rates lead to increased incomes, more millionaires, and thus, more revenues taxable at the income tax level.

            It’s simple math. Tax the incomes and you tax what people earn from products. Tax the corporate revenues and you tax capital before it becomes a product. Do you understand the difference?

          • October 17, 2013 at 4:05 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            So on the tax income tax instead of corporate tax:

            What I didn’t say directly and I need to make sure you understand:

            If you lower the corporate tax rate, people who are the wealthiest do work at those corporations, and so long as they have an income, they have a tax. Tax the income of the wealthy, not the income of the corporation. It’s very clear that if you want the wealthy’s income because it isn’t fair, go after their income, not the corporation which has hundreds of thousands of employees.

            And more to the point: Most the 1% pay more than the lower middle half of the U.S. The lower half of the U.S. doesn’t pay 28% by the way. Even after medicare and social security, it is rare for total taxes to be above 15%. Extremely rare.

            Before you say that some of the 1% avoid taxes in corporations, that would be people who invest in stocks. There are a handful of people who collect only from stocks, and they aren’t the corporation’s expenditures or revenues, so taxing the corporation to get those revenues would still be absurd.

            The code we have it as it is, is perfectly fair, and the corporate taxes are far too high.

          • October 17, 2013 at 4:23 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – I thought I made that clear when I said close loopholes for the wealthiest AMERICANS, not businesses. I’m not suggesting we raise tax rates on business, but the corporate welfare needs to stop. With companies making record-breaking profits, they don’t need government subsidies.

          • October 17, 2013 at 4:28 pm
            Libby says:
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            And before you say “The lower half of the U.S. doesn’t pay 28% by the way” – oops too late.

            I didn’t say the lower half of the U.S. pays 28%. I was comparing someone making $500,00 when AFTER DEDUCTIONS/LOOPHOLES pays a net rate of 28%, compared to someone that makes $1M when AFTER DEDUCTIONS/LOOPHOLES pays a net rate of 10%. The $1M earner pays $100,000 and the $500,000 earner pays $140,000. That is not RIGHT. Forget about fair.

          • October 17, 2013 at 5:22 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Ok, again, breathe.

            Which people make $1/m and pay 10% that involves a corporate tax rate? The corporate tax rate doesn’t affect how their income is taxed. It might affect how much income they or corporate employees receive, but it will not receive their income tax rate. Common sense Libby. So how will raising corporate tax rates fix your scenario?

            Second comment: People in the $50,000 bracket do not pay 28%. You weren’t specific on who when you said 28%, but regardless, I know they don’t. How do I know? I have the average amount of kids, I make above $50,000, and including social security and medicare I don’t pay 28%. Of course, I take some measures to make sure that I don’t, like maxing out my 401k contributions to lower my AGI. Regardless, when I lower my AGI it’s still above $50k, and my total taxes are still under 28% of my income. To be precise: 16%. The average family is a family of 3. I like to talk averages, but even if we are talking a $50k a year earner, you said “after deductions” marking 28% which is only accurate if we are talking a single male or female without a house deduction or investment deductions/credits etc. So, fine, I’ll let that fly. BUT that brings me to item 3:

            3: People who make $1,000,000 a year are not taxed at 10% through loopholes etc. List one person, and list the loop hole. Capital gains used to be able to get you to 15% (no longer after the tax reforms) corporate taxes don’t apply to income taxes, hedge funds fall under capital gains, etc etc. As an aside: The reason capital gains are taxed at 15% traditionally, is that while you earn a lot of money investing, taxing the amount of money one invests has been proven to be the most harmful of taxes, other than corporate taxes. Income taxes as a result of the capital investment are good, and can be hindered if you increase the amount of the capital gains tax. It is bad for the same reason I explained in the corporate tax rate: You tax capital before it gets to it’s final destination (income) which removes it from it’s final destination (income). You can argue that it will just cycle again, which is true, but ultimately you can choose where the cycle is affected most. If the cycle is affected most at the investment, we have a problem.

          • October 18, 2013 at 8:52 am
            Libby says:
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            OK, Bob. You need to slow down and breathe now.

            I was comparing someone making $500,000 (half a million dollars) to someone making $1,000,000. And it’s just an example, so I can’t name all the loopholes. But when Warren Buffet says he pays a smaller income tax percentage than his secretary, I KNOW there are loopholes/deductions he can take advantage of that I can’t.

            And, please, get off the corporate tax issue. I was NEVER talking about corporate taxes, only corporate welfare which you think doesn’t exist. I was always talking about INCOME tax.

          • October 21, 2013 at 1:11 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Corporate welfare would have to benefit the corporation, and corporate tax rates play into that.

            You’ve talked about effective corporate tax rates, and loop holes. The loop holes applying to a corporation must be through how the corporation is taxed. Logics Libby.

            Moving on: Are you aware how Warren Buffet makes his money? He is an investments guy. His profits are taxed as capital gains. And he has talked about that fact often, as to why he agrees with the “buffet rule” which pertains to capital gains taxes. Catch up on the public debate Libby. You’re behind.

            There is no corporate welfare. List the “welfare”. Tax subsidies? Which ultimately, comes back to the corporation, and then when the corporate owner takes it as “income” from the “corporation” which is a separate entity, it is taxed as income. As soon as they take the income as income it is taxed as income. Even if they send it off shore. They merely avoid the tax on the investment end. You don’t know much about tax evasion, and how it is done, or why. They don’t get lower corporate tax rates to get lower personal incomes. They get lower corporate tax rates, to grow more earnings. The very fact that they dodge taxes, shows the taxes are too high. As I said: Go after the $500,000 to 1,000,000 through income tax. Lower corporate tax rates. Problem solved.

            Going after the corporation is absurd.

            Here’s a comparison:

            You go to a buffet. One guy owns this buffet, who is fat.

            Do you go after the buffet itself to make sure that all the partaker/s of the buffet will have more buffet?

            No. You go after the fat man. The corporation and the fat man are separate entities. You want the fat man, go after the fat man.

            You want more fairness in the buffet? Leave more food in the buffet, help the corporation out.

            Corporate welfare only exists in lower tax rates regardless. There is no “corporate” expenditures in the country, other than subsides, which are not expenditures, they are revenue reductions.

            Corporate revenues are welfare for the corporations. They are welfare, for the public, and the government.

            And you would do well to learn that, and stop being so disrespectful to them.

          • October 21, 2013 at 1:12 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            That last section should read “corporate revenues are not welfare for corporations”

          • October 21, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            bob says:
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            Also Libby:

            I thought, seeing as you had some typos, you were comparing 50,000 to $1,000,000 which made more sense.

            $500,000 to $1,000,000 you need to compare the source of the income. You’re comparing $500,000 of earnings taxed as income as opposed to $1,000,000 of earnings taxes as capital gains.

            Here’s a side comment to that: Part of the lower taxes when you make $1,000,000 is in that you don’t pay social security or medicare, and, by extension, if that is how you make your money, you won’t be collecting $45,000 per year (currently the high end for a married couple in the higher income bracket, but in the future, when those people retire if history repeats it self the difference in inflation is 3.5 times which is $157,500) from the government, nor will you be collecting 1.45% of medicare as that wealthy person.

            They pay less taxes, and also collect nothing, in those types of careers. It’s high risk. You go in and make $1/m dollars and pull out, you get screwed. This is why those types commit suicide when they fail. No government assistance, no wealth. It is not a desirable way to go.

          • October 21, 2013 at 3:38 pm
            Libby says:
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            Bob – You don’t listen very well.

            1. “You’ve talked about effective corporate tax rates, and loop holes. The loop holes applying to a corporation must be through how the corporation is taxed. Logics Libby.” I said no such thing. I talked about loopholes related to personal income tax.

            2. “There is no corporate welfare. List the “welfare”. Tax subsidies? Which ultimately, comes back to the corporation, and then when the corporate owner takes it as “income” from the “corporation” which is a separate entity, it is taxed as income.” So what? If you give a comany $1M and I am taxed 35% on it, they still have $650,000 of FREE money. Don’t you get it?

            3. “As I said: Go after the $500,000 to 1,000,000 through income tax.” No actually, I said that.

            4. “And you would do well to learn that, and stop being so disrespectful to them.” The only time I have been disrespectful of corporations is when talking about Wall Street bankers. They are all thieves.

            And you would do well to learn that.

          • October 22, 2013 at 5:04 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby:

            1. “You’ve talked about effective corporate tax rates, and loop holes. The loop holes applying to a corporation must be through how the corporation is taxed. Logics Libby.” I said no such thing. I talked about loopholes related to personal income tax.

            Nope, see below, corporate welfare AND close the loopholes enjoyed by the extremely wealthy was your wording. Forgetting that: You keep saying how easy it is to raise revenues with higher taxes. No. It is not. When a 39.6% top rate brings in 20% of revenues, with lower corporate tax rates, than a 90% top rate, loopholes aren’t the problem. It has to do with growth as well as other factors. How many earners wanted to get to $500,000 of earnings, when every dollar after $300,000 is taxed at 90%? For 200,000 of additional income you would get $20,000 dollars. Most people stop producing past that point in high tax environments. Even a million of additional revenues brings in only $100,000 dollars. You could produce an incredibly successful business, a 100 employee firm, and still barely make $1,000,000 a year. All it takes is a 10 person firm or less to make $100,000. Look at your financial sheets Libby. THAT is why FDR’s policies hurt the economy. Debate against that one. You can’t.

            “But it would be perfectly feasible to do that if we got rid of agri subsidies and other corporate welfare, closed the tax loopholes enjoyed only by the extremely rich, and got our defense spending under control.”

            2. “There is no corporate welfare. List the “welfare”. Tax subsidies? Which ultimately, comes back to the corporation, and then when the corporate owner takes it as “income” from the “corporation” which is a separate entity, it is taxed as income.” So what? If you give a comany $1M and I am taxed 35% on it, they still have $650,000 of FREE money. Don’t you get it?

            That’s not free money. That’s $350,000 taxed off the revenues, and jobs. Say that out loud: You are taking ONE THIRD of all a corporations profits that are used for jobs, growth, capital, and reinvestment. You could tax any of the money they actually put in pocket as income. THINK ABOUT IT. If you tax ONLY INCOME you don’t tax ANY money that can go toward investments or jobs. AT ALL. When you tax CORPORATE income, taxing capital, investment dollars, or job dollars, is INEVITABLE. It’s a fact, pencil it out Libby! You explain to me why we shouldn’t tax only income, and how it doesn’t hurt the economy to add a tax for 35% of a corporation’s revenues? See my comment about the higher corporate tax revenues in FDR’s presidency than Clinton’s yet they were equal in tax revenue. The top effective rate was lower as well. How is this possible Libby? The easy answer: The middle class expanded due to the lower corporate tax effective rate, and the amount of millionaire’s actually increased, taxed at the 39.6 percent top rate. When you take away the income at the income tax, it doesn’t take it away from business growth. Also: Incomes roes more for the middle class under Clinton than FDR. We do not need FDR style revenue methods. It isn’t free money. It comes out of the middle class’s pockets.

            3. “As I said: Go after the $500,000 to 1,000,000 through income tax.” No actually, I said that.

            You mean when you replied “500,00″ with a typo. Look above. Regardless, 28% is a higher effective tax rate than the secretary, and is fair. As I said, I pay 16%. People who make $50k and under, on average pay no federal tax. This means they pay 1.45% medicare and 6.2% payroll, as well as property taxes, but that gets deducted from federal which is why they pay no federal on average. That is %7.65% It is not fair that proportionate wise you want the average $50k earner to pay double that of the $50k earner. Part of the reason I might add that number is not higher, is that social security taxes kick off after a certain point.

            4. “And you would do well to learn that, and stop being so disrespectful to them.” The only time I have been disrespectful of corporations is when talking about Wall Street bankers. They are all thieves.

            No. When talking about all corporations you do. You’ve never said that our corporate tax code is out of whack, is too high, and is the main part of the problem. We need income tax dollars. Not corporate tax dollars.

            And you would do well to learn that.”

        • October 16, 2013 at 6:29 pm
          Agent says:
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          Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

          • October 16, 2013 at 7:26 pm
            bob says:
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            Agent,

            I’m pretty sure he’s more confused on how republicans are viewed, and is afraid of that image more than he is against the actual politics.

            When you look at all his comments, he mentions his family and how they were hypocrites with unemployment benefits and social security and medicare.

            It’s like what his friend said that day was the reality he wanted to believe in, so he could believe in his friend. I get it. The social pressures to be democrat are overwhelming.

            It reminds me of my catholic upbringing. The social pressures there were no different. For all that Ron says he is an independent and a moderate, he certainly doesn’t note the similarities of people on the left to their supposed right extreme counterparts.

            Here’s a good example: Let’s say you don’t like Xbox. In this day and age, liberal children will spout off, X-bone for the new console nick name, and will call those who use it x”bots”. I got on a kid who did that in the presence of my kid, and said it was disrespectful to apply such labels. Do you know what happened?

            The liberals in the room, who loved the ability to label and apply a name as long as it sounded like a zinger got divided into two types. One who said that it was not similar to bigotry and was thus ok to say, and one that said that even if it was bigoted to me, and to my kid, it didn’t matter because to the person saying it, it was just a hip zinger term (sound much like the 1960′s with people saying racism was ok agent?).

            I see that liberals have a weakness for over believing in their civil rights positions, and being far too willing to just label the other side, and make an insult to go with it.

            Example: Planet, he doesn’t like Mitt Romney, but he can’t just say he doesn’t like him, he needs a catch phrase. Mitt Rob-Me!! Har har har! What’s the coolest way to say he hates him that will stick as a catch phrase?

            He wants an insult to attach every time. Unsurprisingly, this is common with liberals, and Ron does not want to be on the receiving side of those “cool” and “in” insults.

          • October 17, 2013 at 7:51 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            I find it interesting that you praise Bob for putting me in my place, yet glance over the fact that he said you are wrong 8 out of 10 times.

            I have already indicated that I will no longer engage in ANY debate with Bob because of his insultes (punk, moron, stupid, etc.). If he feels the need to continue to inaccurately reference me in his posts as a Democrat, Liberal, Progressive Socialist, etc., as you have, then fine.

            Isn’t it great that the whole shutdown orchestrated by the Tea Party (if you believe otherwise you are very naive) led to zero progress in repealing, delaying or defunding the PPACA? Good strategy. Wasting more taxpayer money and negatively impacting the economy with nothing to show for it.

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:22 am
            Libby says:
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            “I see that liberals have a weakness for over believing in their civil rights positions, and being far too willing to just label the other side, and make an insult to go with it.”

            Hmmmmm. Kinda like Libtard, Democraps, Dumocrats, Obummer, Obummercareless, Slick Willy… I could go on, but what’s the point. Neither side has a monopoly on name-calling or labeling, Bob. Is it bigotry for you to say otherwise? Hmmmmm. I’ll have to think about that one.

          • October 17, 2013 at 3:50 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            How many conservatives, with the exception of Agent, do you ever see saying that?

            All of the titles you just mentioned I have not seen once said by a republican.

            However, guys like Planet are the mainstream in your party, and you have many times joined in on the insult fest, trying to come up with zingers. Remember when you and him just went back and forth, and you loved it saying he was so wrong? I basically insulted you like crazy after that day and haven not forgotten.

          • October 17, 2013 at 3:54 pm
            bob says:
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            Ron,

            My most recent comments contained none of those insults, other than “punk”.

            Agent’s insults are consistently worse than punk to you.

            The reason you don’t debate with me is you lost it, you don’t like losing, and I insult you while I do it, because you insult me indirectly.

            You are a punk, and you are a liberal. You do need to grow up.

            Explain how it is that you think your father is a hypocrite for collecting food stamps at one point and collecting medicare and social security if you are not a liberal leaner? It’s impossible to explain that away.

            Explain how you hold debt to Reagan, and not Obama? You’ve done the comparison, and have said presidents don’t make debt. You contradict yourself and label in order to believe what you do.

            Also, did you like me referencing my sources again Ron? The ones you say I don’t reference? Like the corporate tax code? Maybe I should pull up all my old links and just do it again, just to emphasize that I have all these sources, and that they dwarf yours.

            P.S. Notice it was a politico source again?

            P.P.S. did you notice the recent post where I used a Kaiser source regarding health care premiums to Libby?

            P.P.P.S. But I don’t source quote right?

            I’m an @$$ to you because of how you belittle me, and attempt to state you source quote more than me, and you try to lift yourself up to bring me down, while accusing me of it.

            When you make comments like that Ron, I will, and let me all caps this I WILL insult you. End of story. Own up on your half of our issues, and stop being a punk ;)

            Kiddo.

          • October 17, 2013 at 3:56 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            By going back and forth I mean you zinger after zingered, (if that’s a word) after zingered.

            It was all a game to see who could zinger the best.

            It was sick. And agent nor I have ever done that. EVER.

          • October 17, 2013 at 4:36 pm
            Libby says:
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            “How many conservatives, with the exception of Agent, do you ever see saying that?” Oh boy, Bob, you must not be on IJ much. I’ll just start with the few I can remember because they insult me on a constant basis:

            Sarah, Dave, Cheetoh Mulligan, Sarge, Perplexed, Amazed, Patti Cake, Jack. There are more, but I think you get the point.

            And about the zinger thing, I think he and I were going back and forth with PUNS about draetish and birds. Don’t remember the exact details but there was a typo in someone’s post that made it sound like it was about birds. Captain and I made a little joke of it and some other people joined in, as well. There was nothing sick about it.

            If not that, we went back and forth about twice regarding Republicant’s. If that’s what you’re talking about, please refer to my post above. It’s more childish than it is sick.

          • October 17, 2013 at 5:26 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Childish insults as adults, or sick, semantics Libby.

            Moving on:

            Do any of those people you just listed, claim while they make their insult, that the other side is the source of such hate?

            Example: Do they call you homophobic, against women, etc?

            Note what I said before: Liberals have a natural weakness to insults of the labeling type, as they believe they are pro-activist. More liberals than conservatives insult the other side with catch phrases, and more liberals believe those same people they insult are the source of racism, gay hate, and women hate.

            Case closed.

          • October 18, 2013 at 8:47 am
            Libby says:
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            Oh the case is far from closed, Bob.

            “More liberals than conservatives insult the other side with catch phrases,”

            Prove it. You can’t.

            “and more liberals believe those same people they insult are the source of racism, gay hate, and women hate.”

            Uh, duh. You don’t see alot of racism or homophobia on the liberal side of the house. That’s exactly why we insult them. They are ignorant.

            Now the case is closed.

          • October 21, 2013 at 1:18 pm
            bob says:
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            Libby,

            Go to your college, say something conservative like “I like Bush W”

            See what happens.

            I can prove it just when you look at kids. Kids do the bullying. What percentage of kids are conservative?

            Case proven.

            Liberals do, for a fact, bully more than conservatives when it comes to politics, beliefs, etc

            How is it that comcast is doing commercials stating that they are the “premier” lesbian and gay” entertainment provider, and it’s ok. Go to a school, say that, you won’t have any comments stated.

            Go to a school, or go in public, and say “I’m against gay marriage, it’s against my religion”.

            Then like chick fillet, you get boycotted,

            If you’re the winner of Miss America, they will take your crown away for saying it.

            If you’re a pizza company, boy cott.

            So if you’re pro gay marriage, you’re cool. Go to school, do a paper on it as it pertains to the government. It’s also allowable. If you’re not, boy cott the company, bring them down, don’t put it in the news, and don’t put it in school. Do a paper on it? Receive an F and get suspended.

            Let’s be careful here, they didn’t say against gays. Against gay marriage. Which as I showed, can be for non moral issues, non religious issues.

            But when it comes down to it, what do you think of republicans libby?

            And would you not insult them in person? (Yes you would).

            You have not one clue of what liberals do in this country. You’re focused on extreme religious right, who are NOT the majority, and you liberals WAY over compensate as a result. WAY over compensate, as a whole, insult, degrade, and go after apparent “conservatives”

            It is not an opinion, it is a fact.

          • October 21, 2013 at 3:53 pm
            Libby says:
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            Sounds like you feel the same about liberals as I do about the extreme right, which I’ll admit is not the majority. And I have many (if not most) friends that are Republicans. I don’t insult them and they don’t insult me. We debate and sometimes they sway me to their side and sometimes I do the same. Despite what Agent says, everything is not so black and white when it comes to this. Usually, multi-faceted people have multi-faceted ideals. They are not all one-dimensional like Agent.

    • October 15, 2013 at 11:38 am
      Libby says:
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      Thanks, FFA.

      • October 15, 2013 at 3:47 pm
        Agent says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        I’m sorry you didn’t get my analogy Planet, but not really surprised. You speak Liberal, I speak Conservative and never the two minds will meet. As many have said on IJ blog for the past few years, you are truly from a different planet or from a parallel universe.

        • October 16, 2013 at 9:09 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Oh, I got it, I just think it’s bad. Not exactly apples-to-apples.

      • October 15, 2013 at 4:57 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, the government spends way too much on everything. You used the analogy of the mortgage payment. Did you hear the President’s comments that people that can’t make their mortgage payments are deadbeats? What a statement! They should have cut off all foreign aid years ago since the nations that receive it hate us anyway. Can they hate us more if we don’t send them their aid? Why do we have a government who thinks it is good policy to make life as painful as possible for the citizens that support them? I have news for them. They are short timers as we used to say in the military. The guy I bought my agency from used to say that one day there would be a taxpayer revolt. That was over 10 years ago and now we are just about there.

        • October 16, 2013 at 3:17 pm
          FFA says:
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          I’m not so sure its an analogy. I think its a conversation she is going to have.

          • October 16, 2013 at 3:41 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, If you are talking about Libby, she doesn’t have conversations, just arguments except for her buddies Planet and Ron. I am just one of those poor redneck agents who believe in the Conservative Cause and the Constitution of the United States and knows the difference between a Republic and a Democracy. I also know that Progressive Socialism is a brain disorder which has succeeded in bringing this country to the brink of bankruptcy. We just keep on kicking the can down the road hoping for a different result. Does anyone believe that if we create another budget committee to study government spending will recommend any meaningful cuts? Simpson- Bowles studied and studied, gave their report and it was discarded in a heartbeat. Politicians in both parties are so drunk on spending, they will never agree and that is why all incumbents must go that are up in 14. Any government that has 880,000 non- essential employees is far too big and expensive. Perhaps even Ron would agree with that even if he has to consult with a website to verify it.

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:20 pm
            Libby says:
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            He wasn’t talking about me, dummy. He was talking about his sister-in-law.

            And I don’t have arguments, only lively debates.

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm
            FFA says:
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            No agent, I was talking about my Sis In Law sweating her paycheck from SS. She works in the local office. Obama and company think she is non essential even though she is there 40+ hours a week WORKING like an average Jane.

            In my book, nothing wrong being a red neck. I’m a Flat Lander that carries no grudges with the Cheese Heads. Although aaron Rodgers would look very good in a bears uniform. But, we are what we are.

      • October 18, 2013 at 5:55 pm
        Agent says:
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        You are right about one thing Libby. You have a whole legion of people that disagree with you on IJ on your positions. We call you on your left wing rants and then you rant some more. Bob seems to be your worst nemesis, but you remain undeterred. Poor FFA cuts you a lot of slack, but the rest of us don’t for a good reason. You are just a Kool Aid drinker who is in love with the Prgressive agenda and cannot see the forest for the trees. By the way, that light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train and it will run over you unless you change your beliefs.

  • October 15, 2013 at 6:38 pm
    FFA says:
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    Was in South Bend today doing a Health INSURANCE presentation to a NFP Board. Two members stated they were in Indiana version of ICHIP. They both stated that program was working for them.

    There was an option for the Pre X crowd. Why subsidize the whole country when them people were about the only demographics that needed it???

    I’ll agree to a public option when the public actually has some sort of say so on how these ass holes spend my tax dollars…

    • October 16, 2013 at 3:20 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, Have you heard about the “Deal” that was reached today in the Senate? The only thing the Democrats agreed to with the Republicans was the income verification for Obamacare. Apparently, the wonderful program had no income verification built in so I suppose people could put in whatever they wanted and still get a “healthy” subsidy. I am not sure the ramifications about what the IRS would do on 4-15, but they notoriously don’t audit a high percentage of taxpayers so I guess some people could get away with it for an extended period.

      • October 16, 2013 at 4:18 pm
        FFA says:
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        Tax fraud is a very real possibility. As far as verification being built in, how is that working??? Not so good right now.

        The IRS??? F them all. Pain in my ass. Three audits in past 5 years with one still open before they hit me with the next. Been assured by the account and tax attorney I have nothing to worry about as long as I didn’t pad my receipts.

        Several years ago, I was asked to participate in a “Receipt Sharing Scheme”. I would join a group and we would share receipts hoping they were not going to audit members of the group at the same time…. One of them members did some time in Club Fed… Maybe he sent them in my direction?

        And agent, have not heard about the Deal. If it gets my sis in law her paycheck, I’m all for it.

        its become obvious there will never be a compromise with the current Administration. Libby joined the “fire them all” Club. Hopefully, everyone will.

        • October 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm
          Libby says:
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          Libby led the charge on the “fire them all” campaign.

          Receipt sharing scheme? I guess it is true what you say about people from Illinois and cheating/lying.

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:30 pm
            FFA says:
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            Sorry Libby, should have said Joined the fire them all.

            One of my Business clients has some Chicago Politics stories that would turn your head. One being that they offered his wife a $100K a year political Appointment Position if he would drop out of the alderman race.

            Google Tommy Kean. He was uncle tommy to me before he got in trouble. Corruption been going on forever.. This receipt thing – I cut my ties with them folks involved shortly after they talked to me about it. My other sis in law works for a Credit Card company. Some of the stories she has shared…..

          • October 16, 2013 at 4:47 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yes, there are many dishonest people out there, but I think it’s important not to become too jaded. A little cautious perhaps, but not jaded. Then life is no fun at all.

          • October 16, 2013 at 5:07 pm
            FFA says:
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            Libby Says “but not jaded”. Too late for me. Maybe FED UP is a better term. All the way back to Grey Lord is when I started paying attention.

            You said it before – I am tired…. I used to have fun working.

            BTW, got my summons today. At least my E&O Carrier is providing me with a liar. opps, I mean Lawyer.

          • October 17, 2013 at 9:43 am
            Libby says:
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            FFA – this mythbuster should cheer you up!

            5. Taxes under Obama are at an all-time high:

            If you buy this one, congratulations: You’ve failed not just history, but economics as well. Between the combined burden of federal, state, and local income taxes, Americans are parting with the smallest share of their income since 1958. The Bureau of Economic Analysis says we pay 23.6 percent of what we make, down from an average of about 27 percent during the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

            What makes you think that any president is responsible for what state and local governments take from you anyway? Never mind that Congress controls the federal purse strings, and never mind that cuts in income tax rates and payroll tax rates have been in effect for several years now. Of course, this could all change come January, unless hyper-divided Washington can somehow find a way to cooperate and avoid taking the economy over the fiscal cliff. But for now, the notion that taxes are gobbling up more of our hard earned income than ever is, to use a word we’ve heard often during this long and often dishonest campaign, malarkey.

          • October 17, 2013 at 10:12 am
            FFA says:
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            Maybe because income levels have fallen??
            Only thing that will give me hope for change is when this prick gets out of public housing he enjoys known as the White House.
            And its not just him. They ALL NEED TO GO!

          • October 17, 2013 at 10:33 am
            Libby says:
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            Nope, more brackets. I went through my own scenarios and in every one I am in a lower bracket in 2013 than in 2000.

            http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

    • October 16, 2013 at 5:47 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, According to the Washington Post, 9.4 million went online seeking Obamacare the first week. Only 36,000 managed to make it through the application to sign up and 99.6% left the site without following through. Perhaps they had some sticker shock or it kicked them out. The site is so bad that it is totally dysfunctional and will need major renovations. Not quite as easy as shopping on Amazon.com was it? If you or I had that closing rate of .4% on customers, we would be out of business.

      • October 16, 2013 at 7:04 pm
        FFA says:
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        I am getting calls from other brokers wondering why they cant get their user ID so BCBS can set them up….

        • October 18, 2013 at 2:58 pm
          Agent says:
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          It’s funny FFA. I received a message yesterday that Blue Cross servers were down and they were working on it. Hasn’t come back since. Perhaps they are having similar malfunctions due to this travesty. I also saw an article that companies are struggling with the info received from Healthcare.gov. The quality of info is very poor.

          • October 18, 2013 at 3:01 pm
            Libby says:
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            Why don’t you go on there yourself instead of relying on “articles”?

        • October 22, 2013 at 3:27 pm
          Agent says:
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          Not to worry FFA. The President has promised a “surge” to fix the website. I wonder what this surge will cost the taxpayer over and above the $634 million already spent on 10 year old software that clearly doesn’t work. Did Obama find a secret stash to fund this surge? Sebelius clearly has to go. She promised the website would be open to business on Oct 1st and for the month prior, it was crashing with just a couple of hundred hits. Politics above performance once again.

      • October 16, 2013 at 7:25 pm
        FFA says:
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        DAMN!!! My Server is set to handle 8000 at a time. Im better equipped then the feds are.

      • October 17, 2013 at 9:25 am
        Libby says:
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        Agent – I went on there yesterday and had no trouble at all. Got 13 different quotes, many with ZERO deductible. Considering my age and the fact I smoke, the price wasn’t exorbitant. $440 to $1,053 per month for a GOLD plan. Why don’t you go see for yourself instead of just spouting off?

        • October 18, 2013 at 5:45 pm
          Agent says:
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          They should nominate you as the Navigator in Chief Libby and you can get on the Federal Payroll instead of working for an agent. I am sure the 9.4 million that tried to get on the site will be most appreciative for someone to hold their hand.

  • October 16, 2013 at 3:33 pm
    George says:
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    You are incorrect Agent. Obamacare does in fact have income verification built in. This proposal adds more steps– and includes the IRS. Ironic that Repubs who want to disband the IRS find a way to get it more involved in people’s lives here.

    • October 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm
      Libby says:
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      Agent is incorrect? Say it isn’t so!

    • October 16, 2013 at 5:49 pm
      Agent says:
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      The app is all about income to qualify for subsidies. I know because I printed it out. Have you? Are you not in favor of verifying income before releasing subsidies to them? In view of the IRS problems with the truth, this is bound to not end well.

  • October 17, 2013 at 9:41 am
    FFA says:
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    Well, the effects of this BS is hitting home. My daughter came home from work yesterday and announced she as well as about 30 others were getting their hours cut to under 25 because of Ofnbama Care.
    She finally finds a jib after unemployed for about 18 months and then this prick just comes along and encourages her to sit back on the couch and stick her hand out….

    He just don’t care about people.

    • October 18, 2013 at 3:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, Libby will always blame the greedy employer for having to lay off employees or reduce their hours. It couldn’t possibly be the effects of Obamacare and the economic consequences it produces. We have seen story after story of thousands of employers across the country having to make tough decisions to stay in business. There is no one else to blame but Obama and his minions for this disaster.

      • October 18, 2013 at 4:14 pm
        Libby says:
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        Cry me a river, Agent.

    • October 18, 2013 at 4:21 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, there is an article published by the Wall Street Journal about the glitches. Executives at more than a dozen health plans have told the Wall Street Journal that errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations. In one case, a customer successfully signed up on Healthcare.gov for three plans at one company. Oops! Obama finally admitted his frustration with the site and said he has people working around the clock to address the problems. Do they get double time or triple time to work around the clock? I don’t think we can compare it to the Apple rollout issue. That guy got fired by the way. Why hasn’t Sebelius been fired for failing to provide a workable site when they had three years and $634 Million to get it done and tested? Abysmal performance is being too kind.

  • October 17, 2013 at 9:50 am
    Libby says:
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    Who is it that doesn’t care about her? Sounds like her boss to me.

    • October 17, 2013 at 9:55 am
      FFA says:
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      Her Boss died. Family is struggling to keep the doors open so they don’t lose all their hours.

  • October 17, 2013 at 9:59 am
    FFA says:
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    And this budget. What a joke. I can see the conversation now, “Lets just keep doing what we been and then come back in a few months to argue the same thing AGAIN”…..

    This guy needs to step down for the good of the country.

    • October 17, 2013 at 10:33 am
      jw says:
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      Nothing would change if he did. I don’t think Biden would dismantle the ACA.

      • October 17, 2013 at 3:31 pm
        FFA says:
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        His smug ass during the VP debate – begging the American People to “Trust Me”. Where has that trust got us???? Maybe he may have learned something along the way like you cant ram something down our throats we don’t want.

      • October 18, 2013 at 5:42 pm
        Agent says:
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        I agree with you jw. After all, wonderful Joe whispered in the President’s ear, this is a big f —— deal. Don’t worry, the American people will have the final say on whether Obamacare survives or not. Judging from the first couple of weeks on the enrollment debacle, this law is either short lived or will be overhauled and the worst parts taken out.

        • October 21, 2013 at 8:30 am
          Libby says:
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          Agent – the American people got the final say when they re-elected Obama in 2012.

    • October 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm
      Agent says:
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      Yes FFA, the 880,000 non essential Federal Employees had a paid 16 day holiday and will be receiving a pay raise in January because of this deal. Then, they can take another vacation next year. We are in the wrong field. The federal workforce is the place to be. Can’t be fired, have union contract for benefits out the kazoo. To give you a picture of how big our government actually is, the 880,000 is only 17% of the federal workforce including the military. 83% were still working. The total workforce is over 5 million. That is a lot of votes for the Democrats, don’t you agree?

      • October 18, 2013 at 4:16 pm
        Libby says:
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        Votes for the Democrats? What are you talking about? Military voters are notoriously Republican. Don’t ask me why…

        • October 18, 2013 at 5:39 pm
          Agent says:
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          I’ll tell you. They don’t like Progressive Democrats who will stop at nothing to diminish the military. Don’t you remember the Jimmy Carter era? He let the military go to seed and they hardly had airplanes that would fly back then. When he tried to rescue the hostages in Iran, the planes broke down in the desert and had to rescue the rescuers. Thank God Ronny came in and restored our military capability. Now, we are on the downward slide again only more. By the way, the vast majority of Federal Employees are non-essential pencil pushers.

      • October 18, 2013 at 4:36 pm
        FFA says:
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        Cap was in a different forum preaching to cut funding to local munis… I don’t get it Cap, that’s my tax dollars coming into my community. He says nothing about cutting off foreign aid.

        Gonna catch the BoDeans tonight. They are coming out of your neck of the woods even though they got their start in Appleton WI bars. They got out and moved to TX. This would be my third time seeing them. Kind of a J Geils Party atmosphere.

        • October 18, 2013 at 4:54 pm
          Libby says:
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          I love J. Geils! I think you and I have a similar taste in music, FFA.

          • October 18, 2013 at 5:11 pm
            FFA says:
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            Then check out the BoDeans. Early Album – Love, Hope, Sex & Dreams. Also Black & White…. Some fine music there. 2.5 hours on stage – almost like the Boss & Tom Petty. They did a little preaching about Made In America and bringing our jobs back home….

    • October 21, 2013 at 12:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, so the President came out today and said that part of the reason why the website didn’t work was the government shutdown. Hello! Did they not have 3 years to install and test the site? Sebelius also admitted that the site hadn’t been properly tested to make sure it would work and handle the expected volume of applicants. What have they been doing at DHHS for the past three years? I know, they have been writing the 12,000 pages of regulations to add to the bill and depended on the stupid Geeks they hired at the princely sum of $634 Million to get it up and running. Now, they will need a couple hundred million more to fix the major glitches. Sebelius actually said that the website would take 5 years and a whole lot of testing to be done right. I guess she is unfamiliar with computer systems as well. I wonder if Amazon took that long to develop their site.

  • October 21, 2013 at 11:44 am
    Agent says:
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    So FFA, so sorry about your Bears. They seem to be having some issues now on defense. I understand Cutler got hurt. I hope he is not out for long. My Cowgirls managed to win in Philly without some of their best players like Murray and Ware. It is a band aid approach, but they kept the Eagles out of the end zone.

    Libby’s favorite team finally lost. The Colts were ready to play and actually sacked Manning some and kept the pressure on all game. I really like Luck since he kept his poise even when a few breaks went against the team. It was nice to see the high and mighty get a dose of humility. NFL stands for Not For Long.

    • October 21, 2013 at 1:06 pm
      Libby says:
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      I knew you wouldn’t be able to stop yourself from dissing my Broncos, Agent. Funny, you didn’t have a thing to say the first 6 games of the season…

      • October 22, 2013 at 12:22 pm
        Agent says:
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        Libby, I did too have something to say, but you disregarded it as usual. I said to wait for them to travel and play a good team and they would lose like all the NFL teams tend to do. You thought they would go undefeated because they were so awesome. You thought Manning could walk on water and would blow every team off the field. The Colts actually made him look human. Bring consistent pressure and any quarterback can make mistakes. He has been riding on having plenty of time to pick out receivers and that made him look good. If future opponents do the same thing, he will suffer more losses. They will make the playoffs ok, but need I remind you that he only has one Super Bowl ring? Did they not go out early in the playoffs last year?



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