This is a tough one for me. I have a 2005 Porsche 911S as my daily car, but living in the city and taking a bus to work I have only 26,000 miles on it. That’s around 3,200 miles per year. So my usage is low. But how I drive it is another thing. It is a Porsche. It accellerates fast, it stops fast and it pulls around 0.92 G’s on the skidpad. I don’t drive crazy, but I drive aggessively (safely). These UBI devices are going to capture all of that. How is that going to be reflected in what the device captures? Oh well.
Dave, from what I understand, these devices will pick up sudden acceleration and sudden stops so they will charge more for coverage even if you don’t have that many miles driven. I get low mileage discounts already with Safeco so I don’t plan on installing their device since I don’t have any tickets or accidents to forgive. I also don’t talk on the cell phone or text while driving. Many of the goofy iphone crowd think they can handle it. They are just like drunks and they will have an accident, I assure you.
Thanks Agent, that’s what I figured. On the other hand for my bad weather and I need more room inside car, the Dodge Avenger, such a device might be useful. It doesn’t do those fun things as well.
I agree that a Dodge Avenger is not a Porsche, but isn’t it a little hotter than the average passenger car? How many horses does it have? Carriers will rate one of these cars with a high symbol if they think they are hot.
Never had it on a track. Never driven it above 105 (I once drove my Eclipse on an empty part of I-57 at 125) and I’ve never done anything really crazy with it. But I accelerate it hard and test the G forces on on/off ramps on interstates, I never have problems merging (unlike the Avenger).
Easy enough…don’t insure with a UBI carier. Besides, it’s a huge invasiion of privacy. You’d basically be letting the insurance company know where and when you decide to drive and at what rate of speed. Really bad idea.
For years, auto carriers used proxys to predict future loss history such as insurance scores, marital status, location, etc. So-called consumer groups and some actual consumers complain that none of those proxys have anything to do with how people drive. So now the industry comes up with technology to observe exactly how someone drives and many of the same consumer groups and consumers say this is an invasion of privacy and carriers should not be allowed to observe exactly how drivers drive their cars. Something has to give in that debate. I am open to any suggestions for how carriers should predict future loss costs.
The solution is easy. I’m a safe driver. It’s the other idiots on the road who should be paying. My hard braking comes because they have the nerve to get in the way. My speed isn’t a problem. I can easily drive through town at 55 if those darn pedestrians would just stay out of the crosswalks.
Clue Reports and MVR’s are generally very informative on how drivers drive, number of claims and whether they are a good risk to insure. The problem with the industry is that they keep trying to build a better mouse trap and make the process so complicated that it is hard for agents to figure out where the rate is coming from. Some have multiple tiers of pricing based on score, type of vehicle, MVR, Clue report etc. Some have it down to even the insured zip code. Far too complicated. Personally, I don’t like Big Brother snooping on me. We have enough of that with government.
That is the typical response from someone who does not understand how insurance is priced or underwriting. Premiums are paid to cover future losses and it is up to underwriting and actuaries to come up with the most accurate rate based on the risk going forward.
Since a newly licensed 16 year old driver has no accidents or tickets, should they pay less than a 50 year old driver with a minor accident or a minor speeding conviction?
In addition, CLUE reports and MVRs are not always accurate. In addition, they do not tell us how often someone speeds or drives recklessly nor how many near miss accidents they have experienced. We are concerned about risk factors that lead to future losses, not necessarily the past.
From experience, as soon as most, maybe not you, figure out the pricing algorithm, they begin to cheat the system to get the lowest rate and make the sale.
The more accurate the rate, the less subsidizing of poor risk drivers and lower rates for preferred risk drivers. Isn’t that what you are for?
October 30, 2013 at 1:45 pm
SWFL Agent says:
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Auto PM, I would suspect if you introduced “marital status” or “gender” today as an underwriting variable there would be a huge backlash. And most state DOI’s would not approve it.
We get little surpises all the times. As most agents know, there are various discounts available for multiple policies, multiple cars, paid in full etc. I had a customer just signed up, paid her premium in full for Home & Auto for the savings. She said by the way, I do have a small note left on the Home although I pay the premium, not in an escrow account. When we entered the lienholder info for evidence of coverage, the system wanted to charge $200 more. Hello! We talked to the underwriter and got that waived, but it shows how sensitive company sites are and how small changes affect the premium charge.
November 7, 2013 at 10:15 am
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So Ron, a typical response from a non agent like you. I have been at this for over 30 years and have a stirling record with the companies I represent. Pray tell, how are Clue Reports and MVR’s not accurate? They have been for me. When I talk to customers, they often forget the tickets they had or the claims/accidents they had and have to be reminded what they had. I have not had one incident show up that wasn’t theirs. Young drivers have always paid more due to their inexperience. Companies do give Driver Ed credits, but the premium is always going to be more. By the way, 50 year olds with tickets and accidents also pay more than those who are clean. I am always amazed that you can enter the same info on an account with 5 different companies and get such a variance on premium it will make your head swim because they all have different factors. Impossible to figure it out, so we sell the best option to the customer.
October 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm
John says:
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Go to Allstate. None of their drivers rates increased.
Yes, we have seen how Allstate operates. Their agents are busy selling minimum limits, underinsured Homeowners values etc. By the way, you can bypass Allstate agents by doing Esurance. I am sure their agents are happy about that.
I liked the comment as well. Allstate is the only major company out there that Agents had to form a guild/union to deal with their management. Your in good hands, right?
Farmers and State Farm also have unions to deal with their management. Allstate’s only has about 10% of their agents as members, but still it’s pretty bad that a company would treat their salesforce poorly enough that supposedly independent business owners have to form a union.
I have a Jeep I drive for business on a commercial policy. My husband drives a company vehicle from his job. So we have two personal vehicles, one a convertible and one a Dodge PU. Both sit at home a lot. We get all the credits, have clean records, but was talked into Snapshot because I am an agent. Figured is was pointless. I was wrong. Did it in the Winter so I had to drive the convertible around the block to prove the device was plugged in and the PU went out on weekends. We saw a very nice maximum credit at renewal! On two turbo vehicles, one a 3/4 diesel PU, it was worth it. Like all these options, helps some and hurts others. But I have commercial accounts asking for the devices for vehicles used occassionally.
Fortunately none of my cars have USB ports because they are old like me. Watching my agent trying to find a place to plug in one of their snooping devices in my 1958 Austin Healey was priceless.
Hmmmm I forgot-My Pontiac has one of those ports but I will never allow anyone to tap into it.
This is over reaching IMO. What has happened to privacy. I haven’t had an accident in more than 15 years and 1 ticket in 20+ years. Why would I want to let another company gather information on me. I already use anatomized VPN’s on my phones and network. All of this gathering of data is just another constitutional guarantee we are losing and no one seems to care. The fact that Obamacare requires doctors and hospitals to report our medical records to a single database is huge, which will at some point be used to keep people from affordable healthcare.
So far these devices are optional so you can refuse to have one installed. But eventually I fear that those driving without one will be charged more for their insurance than those with one.
Dave, are you saying the companies will ram devices down our throat or they will increase their price? Kind of like Healthcare, isn’t it? Big Brother is watching everything we do and want to regulate everything.
This is a tough one for me. I have a 2005 Porsche 911S as my daily car, but living in the city and taking a bus to work I have only 26,000 miles on it. That’s around 3,200 miles per year. So my usage is low. But how I drive it is another thing. It is a Porsche. It accellerates fast, it stops fast and it pulls around 0.92 G’s on the skidpad. I don’t drive crazy, but I drive aggessively (safely). These UBI devices are going to capture all of that. How is that going to be reflected in what the device captures? Oh well.
Dave, from what I understand, these devices will pick up sudden acceleration and sudden stops so they will charge more for coverage even if you don’t have that many miles driven. I get low mileage discounts already with Safeco so I don’t plan on installing their device since I don’t have any tickets or accidents to forgive. I also don’t talk on the cell phone or text while driving. Many of the goofy iphone crowd think they can handle it. They are just like drunks and they will have an accident, I assure you.
Thanks Agent, that’s what I figured. On the other hand for my bad weather and I need more room inside car, the Dodge Avenger, such a device might be useful. It doesn’t do those fun things as well.
I agree that a Dodge Avenger is not a Porsche, but isn’t it a little hotter than the average passenger car? How many horses does it have? Carriers will rate one of these cars with a high symbol if they think they are hot.
I have the 4 cylinder Avenger. In no way whatsoever is it hot. I should be able to get a good rate. Even if I try to drive it hot, it will not comply.
.92 G’s on the skid pad. Why we’ve got a magazine racer in our presence. LOL
Just curious how many times you’ve auto x’d that fine piece of German engineering?
Never had it on a track. Never driven it above 105 (I once drove my Eclipse on an empty part of I-57 at 125) and I’ve never done anything really crazy with it. But I accelerate it hard and test the G forces on on/off ramps on interstates, I never have problems merging (unlike the Avenger).
Easy enough…don’t insure with a UBI carier. Besides, it’s a huge invasiion of privacy. You’d basically be letting the insurance company know where and when you decide to drive and at what rate of speed. Really bad idea.
For years, auto carriers used proxys to predict future loss history such as insurance scores, marital status, location, etc. So-called consumer groups and some actual consumers complain that none of those proxys have anything to do with how people drive. So now the industry comes up with technology to observe exactly how someone drives and many of the same consumer groups and consumers say this is an invasion of privacy and carriers should not be allowed to observe exactly how drivers drive their cars. Something has to give in that debate. I am open to any suggestions for how carriers should predict future loss costs.
The solution is easy. I’m a safe driver. It’s the other idiots on the road who should be paying. My hard braking comes because they have the nerve to get in the way. My speed isn’t a problem. I can easily drive through town at 55 if those darn pedestrians would just stay out of the crosswalks.
Hey, those darn pedestrians are worth 50 points.
Clue Reports and MVR’s are generally very informative on how drivers drive, number of claims and whether they are a good risk to insure. The problem with the industry is that they keep trying to build a better mouse trap and make the process so complicated that it is hard for agents to figure out where the rate is coming from. Some have multiple tiers of pricing based on score, type of vehicle, MVR, Clue report etc. Some have it down to even the insured zip code. Far too complicated. Personally, I don’t like Big Brother snooping on me. We have enough of that with government.
Agent,
That is the typical response from someone who does not understand how insurance is priced or underwriting. Premiums are paid to cover future losses and it is up to underwriting and actuaries to come up with the most accurate rate based on the risk going forward.
Since a newly licensed 16 year old driver has no accidents or tickets, should they pay less than a 50 year old driver with a minor accident or a minor speeding conviction?
In addition, CLUE reports and MVRs are not always accurate. In addition, they do not tell us how often someone speeds or drives recklessly nor how many near miss accidents they have experienced. We are concerned about risk factors that lead to future losses, not necessarily the past.
From experience, as soon as most, maybe not you, figure out the pricing algorithm, they begin to cheat the system to get the lowest rate and make the sale.
The more accurate the rate, the less subsidizing of poor risk drivers and lower rates for preferred risk drivers. Isn’t that what you are for?
Auto PM, I would suspect if you introduced “marital status” or “gender” today as an underwriting variable there would be a huge backlash. And most state DOI’s would not approve it.
We get little surpises all the times. As most agents know, there are various discounts available for multiple policies, multiple cars, paid in full etc. I had a customer just signed up, paid her premium in full for Home & Auto for the savings. She said by the way, I do have a small note left on the Home although I pay the premium, not in an escrow account. When we entered the lienholder info for evidence of coverage, the system wanted to charge $200 more. Hello! We talked to the underwriter and got that waived, but it shows how sensitive company sites are and how small changes affect the premium charge.
So Ron, a typical response from a non agent like you. I have been at this for over 30 years and have a stirling record with the companies I represent. Pray tell, how are Clue Reports and MVR’s not accurate? They have been for me. When I talk to customers, they often forget the tickets they had or the claims/accidents they had and have to be reminded what they had. I have not had one incident show up that wasn’t theirs. Young drivers have always paid more due to their inexperience. Companies do give Driver Ed credits, but the premium is always going to be more. By the way, 50 year olds with tickets and accidents also pay more than those who are clean. I am always amazed that you can enter the same info on an account with 5 different companies and get such a variance on premium it will make your head swim because they all have different factors. Impossible to figure it out, so we sell the best option to the customer.
Go to Allstate. None of their drivers rates increased.
Yes, we have seen how Allstate operates. Their agents are busy selling minimum limits, underinsured Homeowners values etc. By the way, you can bypass Allstate agents by doing Esurance. I am sure their agents are happy about that.
Loved the sarchasm!
I liked the comment as well. Allstate is the only major company out there that Agents had to form a guild/union to deal with their management. Your in good hands, right?
Farmers and State Farm also have unions to deal with their management. Allstate’s only has about 10% of their agents as members, but still it’s pretty bad that a company would treat their salesforce poorly enough that supposedly independent business owners have to form a union.
I have a Jeep I drive for business on a commercial policy. My husband drives a company vehicle from his job. So we have two personal vehicles, one a convertible and one a Dodge PU. Both sit at home a lot. We get all the credits, have clean records, but was talked into Snapshot because I am an agent. Figured is was pointless. I was wrong. Did it in the Winter so I had to drive the convertible around the block to prove the device was plugged in and the PU went out on weekends. We saw a very nice maximum credit at renewal! On two turbo vehicles, one a 3/4 diesel PU, it was worth it. Like all these options, helps some and hurts others. But I have commercial accounts asking for the devices for vehicles used occassionally.
Fortunately none of my cars have USB ports because they are old like me. Watching my agent trying to find a place to plug in one of their snooping devices in my 1958 Austin Healey was priceless.
Hmmmm I forgot-My Pontiac has one of those ports but I will never allow anyone to tap into it.
I would have to use an aftermarket USB port for my Pontiac & I ain’ta gonna do it!!!
This is over reaching IMO. What has happened to privacy. I haven’t had an accident in more than 15 years and 1 ticket in 20+ years. Why would I want to let another company gather information on me. I already use anatomized VPN’s on my phones and network. All of this gathering of data is just another constitutional guarantee we are losing and no one seems to care. The fact that Obamacare requires doctors and hospitals to report our medical records to a single database is huge, which will at some point be used to keep people from affordable healthcare.
So far these devices are optional so you can refuse to have one installed. But eventually I fear that those driving without one will be charged more for their insurance than those with one.
Dave, are you saying the companies will ram devices down our throat or they will increase their price? Kind of like Healthcare, isn’t it? Big Brother is watching everything we do and want to regulate everything.