In a free market society we all make choices as to how we will use our labor. It was not long ago that the labor market was very tight and it was extremely hard to hire any one. With that tightening of supply employers were forced to expand the compensation package, now the supply of available workers is greater and employers are reconsidering the total compensation package. What may I ask is wrong with employers evaluating what is best for the company? Far to many like argo think that they are entitled to certain benefits.
Do I have a problem with moving jobs off shore, certainly in a utopian environment I would like nothing more than to be an isolationist and keep everything nice and tidy here in the good old USA. Unfortunatley one of the issues of the global market that we currently have, is that if a job can be performed off shore as well for less money what choice does an employer have. That is why the American worker needs to continue to show the employer how they add value to the proposition such that the foreign entity can not do the job as efficiently.
Unfortunatley far to many companines have tried to offshore knowledge workers and my experience is that the foreign entity typically does not do the job as well and only increases cost. For some unknown reason far to many decision makers only see the cost and do not focus enough on the quality.
So the answer is, in true capatalist form (not that there’s anything wrong with that), you have no problem with moving jobs overseas. I appreciate your honesty in that regard.
jobs going off shore is not a bi-product of capitalism.
It is a bi-product of two things:
China’s manufacturing of a low dollar value.
Extremely unfriendly tax rates for corporations.
I would say that in true class warfare form, you believe in creating tax rates high enough to cause a financial incentive to send jobs over sees.
Most companies actually don’t like using china, even if costs are 20% off. The problem is that when you stack item 1 and 2 above, the cost difference actually ends up being much higher.
February 27, 2014 at 4:28 pm
Libby says:
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Bob – that’s capitalism. They send the jobs over there because it’s cheaper and they can make more money. I said there’s nothing wrong with capitalism. I just wish we could figure out a way to create more jobs, or retrain our job force, in the U.S.
February 27, 2014 at 6:16 pm
bob says:
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The fact that it’s cheaper in another country isn’t capitalism. The choice to send jobs there may be, but the cause is not.
February 19, 2014 at 2:17 pm
Swede says:
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It’s the inevitable and logical separation of health insurance from employment. Eventually, instead of providing health insurance as a benefit for employment directly, it’ll be replaced with money specifically provided to the employee for health insurance purposes. It’ll separate out the risk of the overall employer to that of the employee. That’s probably the way it should be.
FFA, as agency owners, we know that our expenses has risen for about everything we buy. I had a nice income increase from working hard last year and the expenses about ate it all up. We have to sell a lot more to stay even in this game and it is unsettling to say the least.
Agent… Your not kidding. $250 electric bill. Gas bill over $100.00. Not to mention the increase in E & O, the rent increase coming, the increase in basic supplies, postage and the list goes on and on. employees think we are sticking the extra money in our pockets. Reality Check – someone else is sticking their hand in our pockets and just taking it.
Employees aren’t as stupid as you two seem to think we are. I make it my business to know how profitable my company is because I don’t want to work for an unprofitable employer. But there is no such thing as “share the wealth” in real life. The upper echelon is very well taken care of, but not the majority of the people that do most of the work to make success possible. It’s not just sales people that contribute to the bottom line.
Libby, Some are smarter, some are dumber and some are just as smart/stupid as we think. Your obviously one of the smarter. You get your 8 for 8.
If not for sales, there would be no revenue to cover your check.
Agent, I think Ron & Libby have at the very least, an understanding.
Sometimes the employees just dont know the extras an owner does. No one knew I was in here Sat working but me. No one knew I was in a week ago Sat & Sunday. yesterday was my first day away from the office in 13 days.
February 25, 2014 at 9:58 am
Libby says:
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FFA, it’s your business. No-one should work harder on your business than you.
And if not for support, there would be no sales. At least not in my world. A producer is not the only person that helps make a sale – or keep a sale – in my arena. But we are talking about large, sophisticated, and service-intensive accounts. Those take a village.
February 20, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, were you talking about Libby, Ron & Boogereater on your post? They don’t understand the sacrifices and obligations an owner has to operate and all they care about is getting their bi-weekly check and keeping their job.
Libby. It is good that you keep track of what your company is dong. All too many folks don’t have the slightest notion about how business works or how well it is doing. However, you seem to imply that that somehow the employees who make the profits possible through their work should share in the wealth they help create. I agree and in may cases they do – it’s called bonuses which is a way for successful companies to share the jointly created wealth. But, don’t forget that it is the upper echelon that likely made the investments (including borrowed money) to establish and continue the business, at risk to their own funds in the event the company goes under or becomes unprofitable. If employees want to share in that risk along with the rewards of success, aside from any bonuses they receive, they should buy stock in the company they work for (unless it is a closely held company).
I agree Rusty. Libby & Ron should have just started their own agency and then they might have gotten a reality check on how to set up and run a business. Get a bank loan, find an office, buy all the computer systems, find and secure markets, hire the technical, accounting help, pay all the monthly bills and then figure out how to write and retain business and maybe success will follow. Of course, we can also throw in the monkey wrench of soft and hard markets which comes along every 3-4 years.
Where would your agency be if there was no one to work for you because they all started their own agency. Some may have been better than you and put you out of business. Show some respect and appreciation to those who have helped you become successful.
There is no doubt Libby and I have deep appreciation for our bosses to have a job and the opportunity to become successful.
You do not know enough about anyone on this blog to make statements like, “Libby & Ron should have just started their own agency and then they might have gotten a reality check on how to set up and run a business.”, period.
If memory serves me, Agent, you bought your agency from a previous owner. Which means it was already set up, established, with markets in place and help on board. All you did was take over the corner office.
It doesn’t take a genius to know that Sales = Revenues. Revenues – Expenses = Profit. Increase your revenues and control your expenses to increase your profit. If revenues are less than expenses, you’ve got an unprofitable agency. Not exactly rocket science.
Rusty – in a large alphabet house, the upper echelon made no more sacrifice that I did. They were hired the same as I was and their contributions may be greater, but they do not negate mine.
I do not feel “entitled” to share the wealth, but I think it should happen. What’s wrong with being recognized for your contribution, assuming you have made one?
That’s bullshit. If that’s the case, why would I work any harder than the schmuck next to me. That kind of attitude just breeds mediocrity. I’m a peak performer and if all I need is a little recognition to continue to perform for you at that level, then you’re a fool not to give it to me. I’ll move on to someone who will.
I owe you an apology. As I read your posts, your capitalistic nature to work hard for extra income is endearing. It shocks me and I’m glad to read your post of working harder should generate greater income and opportunity. Then the flip side of not working harder, mediocrity is less than satisfactory and those people do not deserve the same as others.
I look forward to additional posts.
February 26, 2014 at 1:36 pm
FFA says:
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Thats what bonus are for…
February 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm
Libby says:
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Thanks, PM. I keep trying to tell people I’m not a socialist but they don’t want to believe it. I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Not sure what you call it. Demo-can? Repu-crat? Seems there ought to be something in the middle.
February 26, 2014 at 1:55 pm
Ron says:
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Libby,
It is called being Independent. Some others may refer to it as Libertarian.
It is definitely beter than being a lemming for either side.
February 20, 2014 at 2:46 pm
Rusty says:
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Yes, Agent. I didn’t go into those details, but you have certainly reminded us all that there is a lot more to setting up and operating a business than folks who have never done so ever thought of. The prevailing theory of a lot of folks, many of whose beliefs come from, or are stoked by, certain political wings, is that the money just flows in somehow and is there for grabs. It isn’t so, but there’s a sentiment being popularized by these wings and the compliant press that all the money earned by business somehow belongs to everyone equally. Gee, that doesn’t sound like the free America in which I was raised where hard work and risk were rewarded which provided funds for business expansion (translated: more jobs), economic growth (translated: more taxes without raising rates) and seed money for new business startups (translated:both of the above translations).
I agree Rusty. Did you catch Libby’s comment that she makes it her business to know whether her employer is profitable or not? I wonder if she is the agency accounting manager or did she just hack into the operating system to see what all the bills were and what was paid, how much each employee made, what the monthly income was and whether the owner made a profit or loss for the month. That really is none of her business to know all of that unless she is the accounting manager.
Bullshit, Agent. I don’t want to work for an unprofitable company and fortunately, most of the companies I have worked for have no business sharing that information. If you want my buy-in to control expenses and help make the company money, the least you can give me is some information. You act like your company’s success is a closely-guarded secret, to which I have to ask “Why?” What are you hiding from your employees?
Rusty, America has always been about the American Dream where someone with an idea could start a business and by pouring their heart and soul into it could make it a reality. In view of the current atmosphere, I am really surprised when I see the new business start ups in the Sunday paper. People still dream, but it is getting harder and harder to succeed in business with all the regulations, taxes and cost of doing business.
You forgot one of the biggest task – finding E & O for a Start Up. That was a night mare. If I didnt have history on the captive side, I would have never been able to get it.
this is defintely the way of the future.. companies looking to squeeze more out of their employees and fatten their own pockets..
That is obama fault.
argo- thank the company you work for you have a job….or shut the door to the basement and have your mom bring you another bag of chips.
In a free market society we all make choices as to how we will use our labor. It was not long ago that the labor market was very tight and it was extremely hard to hire any one. With that tightening of supply employers were forced to expand the compensation package, now the supply of available workers is greater and employers are reconsidering the total compensation package. What may I ask is wrong with employers evaluating what is best for the company? Far to many like argo think that they are entitled to certain benefits.
The same can be said for moving jobs off-shore. Do you have a problem with that Mr. Bob?
Do I have a problem with moving jobs off shore, certainly in a utopian environment I would like nothing more than to be an isolationist and keep everything nice and tidy here in the good old USA. Unfortunatley one of the issues of the global market that we currently have, is that if a job can be performed off shore as well for less money what choice does an employer have. That is why the American worker needs to continue to show the employer how they add value to the proposition such that the foreign entity can not do the job as efficiently.
Unfortunatley far to many companines have tried to offshore knowledge workers and my experience is that the foreign entity typically does not do the job as well and only increases cost. For some unknown reason far to many decision makers only see the cost and do not focus enough on the quality.
So the answer is, in true capatalist form (not that there’s anything wrong with that), you have no problem with moving jobs overseas. I appreciate your honesty in that regard.
jobs going off shore is not a bi-product of capitalism.
It is a bi-product of two things:
China’s manufacturing of a low dollar value.
Extremely unfriendly tax rates for corporations.
I would say that in true class warfare form, you believe in creating tax rates high enough to cause a financial incentive to send jobs over sees.
Most companies actually don’t like using china, even if costs are 20% off. The problem is that when you stack item 1 and 2 above, the cost difference actually ends up being much higher.
Bob – that’s capitalism. They send the jobs over there because it’s cheaper and they can make more money. I said there’s nothing wrong with capitalism. I just wish we could figure out a way to create more jobs, or retrain our job force, in the U.S.
The fact that it’s cheaper in another country isn’t capitalism. The choice to send jobs there may be, but the cause is not.
It’s the inevitable and logical separation of health insurance from employment. Eventually, instead of providing health insurance as a benefit for employment directly, it’ll be replaced with money specifically provided to the employee for health insurance purposes. It’ll separate out the risk of the overall employer to that of the employee. That’s probably the way it should be.
Most employees just dont understand all the over head. They dont see the pile of bills. They think money just pours in the company coffers.
FFA, as agency owners, we know that our expenses has risen for about everything we buy. I had a nice income increase from working hard last year and the expenses about ate it all up. We have to sell a lot more to stay even in this game and it is unsettling to say the least.
Agent… Your not kidding. $250 electric bill. Gas bill over $100.00. Not to mention the increase in E & O, the rent increase coming, the increase in basic supplies, postage and the list goes on and on. employees think we are sticking the extra money in our pockets. Reality Check – someone else is sticking their hand in our pockets and just taking it.
Employees aren’t as stupid as you two seem to think we are. I make it my business to know how profitable my company is because I don’t want to work for an unprofitable employer. But there is no such thing as “share the wealth” in real life. The upper echelon is very well taken care of, but not the majority of the people that do most of the work to make success possible. It’s not just sales people that contribute to the bottom line.
Libby, Some are smarter, some are dumber and some are just as smart/stupid as we think. Your obviously one of the smarter. You get your 8 for 8.
If not for sales, there would be no revenue to cover your check.
Agent, I think Ron & Libby have at the very least, an understanding.
Sometimes the employees just dont know the extras an owner does. No one knew I was in here Sat working but me. No one knew I was in a week ago Sat & Sunday. yesterday was my first day away from the office in 13 days.
FFA, it’s your business. No-one should work harder on your business than you.
And if not for support, there would be no sales. At least not in my world. A producer is not the only person that helps make a sale – or keep a sale – in my arena. But we are talking about large, sophisticated, and service-intensive accounts. Those take a village.
FFA, were you talking about Libby, Ron & Boogereater on your post? They don’t understand the sacrifices and obligations an owner has to operate and all they care about is getting their bi-weekly check and keeping their job.
Libby. It is good that you keep track of what your company is dong. All too many folks don’t have the slightest notion about how business works or how well it is doing. However, you seem to imply that that somehow the employees who make the profits possible through their work should share in the wealth they help create. I agree and in may cases they do – it’s called bonuses which is a way for successful companies to share the jointly created wealth. But, don’t forget that it is the upper echelon that likely made the investments (including borrowed money) to establish and continue the business, at risk to their own funds in the event the company goes under or becomes unprofitable. If employees want to share in that risk along with the rewards of success, aside from any bonuses they receive, they should buy stock in the company they work for (unless it is a closely held company).
I agree Rusty. Libby & Ron should have just started their own agency and then they might have gotten a reality check on how to set up and run a business. Get a bank loan, find an office, buy all the computer systems, find and secure markets, hire the technical, accounting help, pay all the monthly bills and then figure out how to write and retain business and maybe success will follow. Of course, we can also throw in the monkey wrench of soft and hard markets which comes along every 3-4 years.
Agent,
Where would your agency be if there was no one to work for you because they all started their own agency. Some may have been better than you and put you out of business. Show some respect and appreciation to those who have helped you become successful.
There is no doubt Libby and I have deep appreciation for our bosses to have a job and the opportunity to become successful.
You do not know enough about anyone on this blog to make statements like, “Libby & Ron should have just started their own agency and then they might have gotten a reality check on how to set up and run a business.”, period.
If memory serves me, Agent, you bought your agency from a previous owner. Which means it was already set up, established, with markets in place and help on board. All you did was take over the corner office.
It doesn’t take a genius to know that Sales = Revenues. Revenues – Expenses = Profit. Increase your revenues and control your expenses to increase your profit. If revenues are less than expenses, you’ve got an unprofitable agency. Not exactly rocket science.
Rusty – in a large alphabet house, the upper echelon made no more sacrifice that I did. They were hired the same as I was and their contributions may be greater, but they do not negate mine.
I do not feel “entitled” to share the wealth, but I think it should happen. What’s wrong with being recognized for your contribution, assuming you have made one?
You get recognized every time you paycheck clears the bank.
That’s bullshit. If that’s the case, why would I work any harder than the schmuck next to me. That kind of attitude just breeds mediocrity. I’m a peak performer and if all I need is a little recognition to continue to perform for you at that level, then you’re a fool not to give it to me. I’ll move on to someone who will.
Libby,
I owe you an apology. As I read your posts, your capitalistic nature to work hard for extra income is endearing. It shocks me and I’m glad to read your post of working harder should generate greater income and opportunity. Then the flip side of not working harder, mediocrity is less than satisfactory and those people do not deserve the same as others.
I look forward to additional posts.
Thats what bonus are for…
Thanks, PM. I keep trying to tell people I’m not a socialist but they don’t want to believe it. I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Not sure what you call it. Demo-can? Repu-crat? Seems there ought to be something in the middle.
Libby,
It is called being Independent. Some others may refer to it as Libertarian.
It is definitely beter than being a lemming for either side.
Yes, Agent. I didn’t go into those details, but you have certainly reminded us all that there is a lot more to setting up and operating a business than folks who have never done so ever thought of. The prevailing theory of a lot of folks, many of whose beliefs come from, or are stoked by, certain political wings, is that the money just flows in somehow and is there for grabs. It isn’t so, but there’s a sentiment being popularized by these wings and the compliant press that all the money earned by business somehow belongs to everyone equally. Gee, that doesn’t sound like the free America in which I was raised where hard work and risk were rewarded which provided funds for business expansion (translated: more jobs), economic growth (translated: more taxes without raising rates) and seed money for new business startups (translated:both of the above translations).
I agree Rusty. Did you catch Libby’s comment that she makes it her business to know whether her employer is profitable or not? I wonder if she is the agency accounting manager or did she just hack into the operating system to see what all the bills were and what was paid, how much each employee made, what the monthly income was and whether the owner made a profit or loss for the month. That really is none of her business to know all of that unless she is the accounting manager.
Bullshit, Agent. I don’t want to work for an unprofitable company and fortunately, most of the companies I have worked for have no business sharing that information. If you want my buy-in to control expenses and help make the company money, the least you can give me is some information. You act like your company’s success is a closely-guarded secret, to which I have to ask “Why?” What are you hiding from your employees?
Rusty, America has always been about the American Dream where someone with an idea could start a business and by pouring their heart and soul into it could make it a reality. In view of the current atmosphere, I am really surprised when I see the new business start ups in the Sunday paper. People still dream, but it is getting harder and harder to succeed in business with all the regulations, taxes and cost of doing business.
You forgot one of the biggest task – finding E & O for a Start Up. That was a night mare. If I didnt have history on the captive side, I would have never been able to get it.