“Lack of respect” … at my first job, the boss tore his phone out of the wall and threw it at me and threatened to shove it down my throat. Classy guy! I stuck it out there until I found something better as I has school loans that needed to be paid ($63.36 a month).
So I jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire – working for the insurance industry.
Been There – are you male or female?
Been There: I noticed the “lack of respect” comment as well. Back in the day, I had a boss throw a hot cup of coffee at me because he disagreed with a comment I made. I was completely caught of guard, but managed to duck just as the cup went past my face. These young kids don’t understand you earn respect. It’s not a given. Of course, I quit the job; I had been there almost 9 yrs. In our community, you only quit when you died. There was no business or industry so no chance to find another job once I quit. It was a farming community. I was 27 yrs old & moved 500 miles away & started over. Never looked back.
Female. That guy was a maniac. I was a receptionist. The caller lied to me about why he wanted to speak to the boss. I put the caller through and repeated the reason he said was calling. Boss went Berserk with a Capital B.
If thats your worst experience, be happy. I worked – in high school – for a bunch of Coke Heads. I was never part of their inner circle because I declined to snort it. I was there for three years because I gave the big boss an honest 6 hours for 6 hours of pay. He asked why I was the only one that was productive for the full 6 every time. I never had the heart to tell him because his managers are coke heads.
When they started Free Basing, I left.
FFA, I am surprised you survived into adulthood in that environment. You must have had a “lot of want to”. Put one of these current Gen Y kids into that and see how long it would take to send them packing.
I think that a lot of people face hardships by being the “newbie” I thought that just went with the territory, kind of like a right of passage. It was for me. I have several bad experiences at my first job.
So what the talk among your demographics? Voting dem or rep in Nov?
Who cares how they vote? I’m sorry, “we”. I guess I’m a millenial. The political paries aren’t really talking about this stuff that much, and they certainly don’t have ideas. One side seems to think that “cut taxes” will somehow fix the job market, which is silly. The other side seems more aware of some of the problems, but seems to think that “more education” will somehow fix the job market, which is silly.
We have a an overeducated population and there is very little link between what is being taught in universities and what skills are actually needed by employers. So we have a bunch of unemployed history majors and a bunch of unfilled jobs because employers can’t find people with relevant skills. Of course, employers are not blameless, as they have also scaled back the amount they are willing to invest in training their workforce.
I do as is evident by me asking him/her. I dont recall asking for your input either.
I do agree with your second paragraph. Your dead on accurate. I have a client with a Child Development degree found work as a nanny.
Of Course, political parties are not talking about Jobs. Nor are they doing anything about jobs. Seems to me, they are both still arguing over OBama Care.
Hi FFA. Oh boy, another article we can argue about. I see a big difference in work ethic between our generation and the present one. These young people today thinks the world owes them a living and they are “entitled”. As a young man, I knew I had to learn rapidly, make myself invaluable and perform or I might be out of work. My family did not have two nickels to rub together so it was up to me. I can’t believe the comments that bosses threw things at employees. That is unheard of in our part of the country.
No Kidding Agent. My NIU Interns think they are going to make $60,000 right out of college.
FFA, I have been there, done that with young producers and they didn’t have what it took. I funded them while in training, sent them off to company sponsored schools at a significant expense, worked with them on how to make calls, how to gain interest, gave them the preferred appetite guides many of our carriers use, gave them leads to follow up on and they still failed inside a year. They expected the business would just walk in the door and hand them their policies. You and I both know that doesn’t happen often and you can’t make a living that way and be successful.
$60K out of school isn’t out of the question, very doable in the insurance industry. Marsh is hiring at $60K+ in NYC and $55K just about everywhere else.
They don’t live in the alphabet house world.
Not in Il. $60,000 out of college is a pipe dream.
You’d be surprised, FFA. Call Marsh, AON, or Gallagher in Chicago and ask them.
Libby, I dont need to call anyone. I see it with my own two eyes. One of my former interns is working at a fast food place. Another decided, due to the poor job market, to go after him Masters. One of my former employees – a college grad – found work as a gas station attendant after he washed out of here. More stories like this then kids getting that kind of money fresh out of school.
I am sure them types of jobs are out there, but few and far in between (at least in this neck of the woods).
OK, Hawkeye. You and Agent have 20/15 vision evidently.
I actually just got new glasses. I am back to um… er… I forgot.
I didn’t know Jax wore glasses…
Do Millenials not get the concept of working their way up? Just because you come out of college with a degree – even a master’s degree – does not entitle you to a high level position and the salary that comes with it. Get a few years of work experience – whatever that may entail – before you campaign for the C-Suite.
Absolutely correct! I did menial filing and grunt work for at least a year before anyone trusted me with something else. Personal lines for 5 years before someone allowed me into small commercial, etc. I knew I didn’t have a clue. Some of the younger ones now don’t know what they don’t know and think they are entitled to move up in a couple of months. When I sit them down and ask them a few questions, they soon realize they don’t know as much as they thought.
FFA, Companies used to go to college campuses to recruit new talent and then when they found one with good potential, they would hire and train them, first for entry level and then move them up if they saw production and the right work ethic. Liberty Mutual used to find these kids with great outgoing personalities to train into claims. After a few years in claims, they moved them into sales and many did quite well. Usually, a kid who had to work their way through college did better than the ones that were handed every advantage by the parents. Nowadays, we have kids at home failing to launch and wondering why they can’t get a job. They know nothing useful and many can’t even learn a useful skill. They do know how to download an app on their iphone or who won the last Dancing with the Stars.
Agent – why did you thumb me down on my post? It totally agrees with what you are saying. I’ll at least read yours before thumbing you down. Sometimes you even get a thumbs up. Not often, but every now and then.
I didn’t thumb you down Libby. Why did you thumb me down? If you agree with me, you get a thumb up, not down. Of course, we know that you thumb me down every chance you get or it could be the knumbskull Ron.
If you do not see a post from me replying to yours, then I did not thumb you down. I do not just thumb someone down without posting why. It is called courtesy.
Now, I will thumb down your post.
I thumbed you down because you thumbed me down.
It’s not as simplistic as you describe. Although I agree that many do not understand that concept but is that really a new phenomena from my generation (Yes I am a millennial). Every generation thinks the proceeding generation is the death knell to society and all have been wrong thus far (although I guess eventually one will be right then). The problem is the job market. Searching for compatibility combined with the lack of jobs available that fit the bill is the main reason for this job hopping, not that they don’t understand working their way up. Don’t be so cynical.
In my case for example my last year of college I was excited to search for jobs and got plenty of interviews (was offered the job at each one btw #bragging haha) but they were mostly jobs that involved cold calling and where run by managers that got bonus just based on how many bodies they hired and kept on board. So I decided to just stay in school and get my MBA. Now I have alphabet soup after my name now, BA, MBA, CPCU, and working on CPA. But despite my “over”-education I don’t feel entitled. I am a low level employee at my current job for now 2 years and I understand why, because lack of experience. That will come with time.
I like you, LiveFree.
Thanks! I bet you never thought you’d meet a likeable anarchist haha
Well, I have a definite crush on Jacks from Sons of Anarchy!
Jax may not be the kind of anarchist I am but I will take the very loose association to such a stud as a compliment nonetheless.
Playing Jax on Sons is my Part Time Job…
Damn, FFA. I’m coming to Chicago!!
Your first paragraph prompted a lookup of this quote from Gilbert Chesterton:
“I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.”
I love the equal opportunity stupidity concept.
I would accept this as a compromise. What say you, Agent, should we get lunch, write business, and be wrong together?
Stan, why would I abandon what works for me and creates success for a philosophy of failure you espouse? By the way, you don’t know the first thing about writing business or providing a professional service to clients. Why would I want to even be seen with you? If you really are serious about finding a good job, come to Texas. We know something about creating jobs here.
Agent, speaking of Texas, did you know that GOP states are the most dependent on the government? It’s the blue states that you seem to despise that end up paying the bills. How do you account for this? Texas ranks 31st on this list. Perhaps you should stop being such a moocher?
Nomesaneman I agree, equal opportunity stupidity is a great way to put it. And after reading the bickering between the generations below in the comments extra emphasis on “stupidity”.
The narrative is recycled, old, and worn-out (older than the baby boomers even! I jest I jest) and that is never noticed by it’s present authors. The old man is always the “out of touch” laggard and the young man is always lazy, entitled and naïve. The history of generational warfare has always been assembled on shaky if not non-existent foundation that is built completely upon stereotypes galore. Painting with too broad a brush.
Ill go further, I dont think that Agent is just out of touch, but I think that his policies are actively hurting America.
Thanks for the America that you gave us, Agent.
Stan, while I may agree with you in your disagreement with some of Agent’s policies (although I don’t always disagree with him and I am not sure which “policies” exactly you are referring to). But you give far too much credit to his ability to enforce or even influence any such policies. And I also am missing the link between Agent’s “policies” and that of the “older” (for lack of a better term) generations. Unless I completely misunderstood what you said, you seem to imply that his views and opinions resonate relatively unanimously through the largest generation(s) in human history, which to me is absurd and why I ended my last post above by saying “painting with too broad a brush”. Don’t pigeon whole such a large demographics into one man’s opinions. Just as you don’t want them to pigeon hole your generation as lazy and not a hard worker.
Painting with too broad a brush is so much easier. ;)
Anarchocapitalist, I presume? My college’s Econ 101 book was Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard.
You presume correctly and that is an amazing book! What college did you attend?
I went to Grove City College in PA. Drs Herbener and Ritenour are also involved with the Mises Institute.
I’m GenX as well…and I’m with you…I graduated from college in 2001 and it never occured to me I could start anywhere but entry level and work my way up. Even at my current job where I had 6.5 years prior experience, I started at the entry level position. Granted, it only took me 1.5 years to move up, but I am completely ok with having to prove myself. I wish the article would have gone into greater detail about what lack of respect meant.
GenX, use Stan as your model and you will have your definition of what lack of respect means.
Lack of respect = wanting the things boomers had and refusing to tell them that they were special. Cry me a river, old man. Maybe you should toughen up?
Stan, you have been the one crying a river all over this forum for having a $9 per hour job and not having a chance in today’s world, not me. I have been there, done that back when I was your age and never blamed anyone. I rolled up my sleeves and got after it.
I don’t know how old you are, but I didn’t own my own home until I got married (dual incomes) and was 35. What makes you think that you can’t have the same things at 35? Can’t you make interest only payments on student loans? My sister has 2 masters degrees and I think she still owes on her loans (she’s 61) and hasn’t paid anything in years.
Is Monster.com your definition of looking for a job? You will NOT find a job that way. At least not a good one. Are you in a metropolitan area or rural area? Maybe relocating is an option?
Speaking of my sister, she’s alot like you. Every suggestion you make to her she will tell you 12 ways why it won’t work. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder…
That is my point, Agent. You COULD roll up your sleeves and get ahead. From 1950-2000 the US experienced arguably the greatest expansion of wealth the world has ever seen. If you had a pulse, a High School education, and a willingness to show up, you could get ahead.
Libby is a great example. She has no degree (no slight here Libby), but still made her way to six-figures. If you think that that outcome happens today, well brother, youre more lost than I thought.
The world is different now. Too few jobs for too many educated people with too much debt. Im shocked you cant see this, as you already acknowledge that there are problems (Obamacare seems to be the one that gets your remaining hairs standing on end). So if there are problems, that means that its difficult to get ahead.
Maybe YOU have a sense of entitlement that your politics should govern?
That’s true, Stan. But it took me 30 YEARS to move up. How many do you have in the business?
There are things you can do to improve your chances of being noticed and therefore moved up. I have given you many suggestions on how to do that. I have not heard anything from you about them.
Libby, here is a question for you. In 2008 you were making six figures. You’re at half that today. How long would it take you to get back to six figures? Is it a function of learning more? Working harder? Paying more dues?
Given your tenacity and experience, I am guessing not.
I realistically think that I can get to $50k. But it wont matter, with the cost of education and healthcare, $50k is not a living wage when combined with debt.
I will not live long enough to get back to that unless I make some drastic changes, like moving back to a metropolitan area where those salaries are not out of the norm. But I moved here to get married and I am content with my current lot in life. Money is nice, but it’s not the be all and end all.
Again, I think you are cutting yourself a little too short. A claims position at a carrier with J.D. after your name probably starts at $50k. You never did say what type of job you do. I assume since you are on IJ it is in the insurance industry. Agency? Carrier?Underwriting assistant? Call center? Accounting?
You have much more to offer than your current position. I feel strongly you could find something better if you weren’t so defeatist.
It can be hard to not be defeatist in the current economic climate.
We employ a number of millennial generation employees. We have seen them move from position to position within our company as well as move from our company to others. We spend significant sums in training our new employees ($112,000 per employee in some roles). We still struggle finding good people because we are not technologically advanced, so younger employees get disgusted with us. I am a Baby Boomer and I get disgusted with our lack of technology.
Youngin is correct, neither party understands this generation because they don’t want to bother. They are the most educated and will be the largest buying group by 2016 (when combined with the Gen X’ers). We had better wake up as the Baby Boomers (me) are becoming irrelevant.
After a decade in this business I see two types of boomers. One segment will put in the time, effort and repetition needed to figure out new programs, systems, technology tools etc. They figure it out and do just fine. The other segment does nothing but whine and moan about anything “systems related”. They use words like “that mechanical doohicky” to describe computers. They will never learn how to use the systems, because many won’t even spend a half hour trying.
In regards to millennials, the comment about lack of respect, is way off the mark, respect is earned, not automatically given just because you have a degree. You have to work your way up, start with entry level, prove that you can do the work. Learn how to think on your feet, roll with the punches, so to speak, those two things, and working hard, and getting the job done are the skills that are most important, one other thing, that should never be part of your vocabulary on any job is the phrase, “that’s not my job”. Those 4 words will sink you every time. I’m considered a “boomer”, and the question above on how an individual is voting, rep or dem…. in my opinion, it’s neither, we need to hark back to the Declaration of Independance, and the last sentence, that if the government is not working, we have the right and the duty to abolish it and institute a new government….
One thing not mentioned is the difference in management styles and attitudes. Of course the Y generation probably doesn’t realize that managers are much more coaches than bosses in todays business environment. When I started working you not only didn’t get respect you got yelled at and had no input or decision making capablilies at all. Todays managers by and large are participative and empowering, at least much more than 40 years ago.
Hey Who, Stan’s manager hasn’t empowered him into that $60,000 per year job yet. I wonder why!
My manager doesnt even make $60k. I personally would be that he makes somewhere around $39k-42k.
It might shock you, but he even likes me. Perhaps its because of my charm?
*would bet that
Yes Stan, you are a charming guy allright. Insult everyone on this forum and just charm your way to a new dislike record.
Hey, that is not fair. I feel like I mostly focused on insulting just you. Everyone else on this forum has been reasonable.
I have to defend my generation a little bit. Some of these criticisms are always lobbed at young people no matter which generation it is. Boomers, you should know better.
I agree that a lot of millenials have a warped sense of reality. Laid down by their neurotic, overprotective parents! For some reason I was fortunate enough to see the hollow, nonsensical “follow your passion, love what you do and you’ll never work a day in your life” advice being spewed by many of the boomer parents and guidance counselors. I shook my head as the majority of my graduating class headed off to college to pursue such worthwhile endeavors as Psychology, Art, and Political Science. I was horrified to observe the ease with which students can take out student loans, with deferred interest, without even declaring a major. I was disgusted with how poorly staffed and unknowledgeable the career center was – almost as if the concept of having a career is an afterthought in the higher education industry.
Millenials are the victims of one of the longest running scams in modern civilization – the promise that if you get a degree, you will get a (good) job. And you criticize them for being frustrated that they have mortgaged their futures and have nothing to show for it? Give me a break!
So if we understand you right Youngin, you are playing the victim card. Typical response. Try going to college to get a degree that will be useful in society. How about BBA,MBA, Marketing or even the medical field? My two daughters chose to be a PA for doctors and Pharmacy and they will never be out of work. Not much demand for poets or art majors these days in the real world.
Agent, if this were a game, then your card metaphor might be accurate. But this is serious business. Think about it. An entire generation of people (well, more than one generation), indoctrinated since early childhood, into the belief that it is OK to spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on something which, in some cases, has almost no value. On top of that, they are told that if they can’t afford it, they can always borrow it and pay it back once they get that high-paying job. The loans come with no strings attached, except the only way you’re going to get out of paying it back is if you die.
Yeah. A big scam, and Gen Y has been the largest victim.
Not so much youngin. Perhaps many of these Gen or Y kids have not received good advice or counseling on career fields that are in demand. The parents let them major in anything they want with the idea that they get degreed. These degrees are worthless in the market of today. Many have to either take menial jobs or they don’t work at all. Colleges don’t teach practical skills to many. It would be a lot better for many to go to technical schools to learn computers, mechanical, plumbing, electrical etc. These jobs are good jobs and the kid can still be an owner of a business after practical experience and effort to achieve.
Mechanics, plumbers, and electricians are a dying breed. And they make BIG MONEY. It’s just not the kind of sexy job a college graduate thinks they should be doing. There is an air of entitlement in some young people. And it most probably has been instilled by their parents. And it’s too bad they have to bear the brunt when the real world rears up and smacks ‘em right in the kisser. A little humility and alot of drive will get you where you want to be…eventually. You have to wait your turn just like everyone else. But I will say the insurance business is going to be a hotbed of opportunity for young people as the majority of the workforce retires in the next 10-15 years. The time is now to pony up and learn all you can from the gray hairs. It’s our place you will be taking soon.
Amazingly, I agree with everything in this post.
The point I’m trying to make is that you shouldn’t act so surprised at the attitudes of the millenials. The attitudes are entirely consistent with what they have been told their whole life.
I was lucky that my parents were poor enough to not be able to shield me from the realities of the world, so I figured out pretty early the importance of making good decisions and taking the long view. Nonetheless I have to work very hard to keep my sense of entitlement in check, and I don’t always do a good job.
I agree with Libby. I call them the Generation of Entitlement.
Not to be confused with the Me Generation.
Hey, without Liberal Arts majors, you wouldn’t have near as many underwriters! I don’t think any college education is ever “wasted”.
Colleges aren’t really vocational schools anyway. Even doctors, lawyers, architects and the like need real-world apprentice time.
Plus, not everybody’s cut out for engineering, mathematics and the sciences. I’m with this guy – go ahead and major in philosophy, but get summer jobs working with your hands and learn a trade. http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-soulcraft
I agree with you on one thing youngin. Young people have been thoroughly indoctrinated. Stan is the best example of being in the entitled generation.
And Agent exemplifies the “Angry Boomer who ruined the economy despite having vast economic and political power for over 30 years.” But yeah, twentysomethings are the problem.
We’re both “dufus” and “entitled” yet jobless and economically powerless. Such a threat!
Universities are almost entirely just leftist factories/assembly lines.
Yes Destro, we wouldn’t want “free thinking” or “open minds” in a university, would we? Damn socialists!
You forgot to mention the line of crap the colleges feed these kids. I reference my NIU inters thinking $60000 because that is what NIU is feeding them.
You make a good point about parenting. Many of the kids who are struggling are those who had parents that wanted to do everything for them. To make their kids lives easier. Yeah. How’s that working out?
In contrast, there are many millennials who were reared by parents who actually want their kids to succeed and made them be independent. I will admit that when my eldest asked me what I think is successful, I said if you’re happy and can support yourself – you are successful. Mind you, I did put the caveat “and can support yourself” because I think that is important.
Not all millennials are bad employees. Just like not all baby boomers are good employees. Every generation will have the range of potential from abysmal to over achiever.
The active word here is FOR.. Work for your self and you will find less competition. A college degree nowadays is equivalent to a high school diploma. An achievement isn’t worth much when the whole country has achieved it. I was taking resumes of well qualified candidates that were college educated back in the late 80s to sell pagers for Metagram America. It seems that nothing ever changes. An educated fool is no place to be.
I have had a 40 year career in the insurance industry and it seem ready made for millenials. Here they can make an immediate difference in peoples lives and still have great working conditions and a considerable amount of flexibility in when and how they work. The questions is, “How do we get the word out to them about what a great opportunity there is in being and insurance professional?”
Retiring, I agree that the Insurance Industry is a great place to earn a living, but it seems to be unappealing to the Millenial bunch. They don’t want to work for a living and have gotten used to entitlements so why work? They believed the lies from Obama and cheerfully voted for him thinking they could get in on the gravy train. They got Health Insurance until age 26 and then had the rude awakening that premiums were double or triple to get coverage under the exchange. That has left them disillusioned. Can’t get a job, might as well relax on the couch and download a few apps on their iphones.
I honestly fear that we are going the same direction as the Soviet Union.
You are much too young to be so cynical. Is this the millenial mindset these days? It’s sad. You guys have nowhere to go but up, yet you spend your days in doom and gloom. You’re wasting your life away. Get out and enjoy being young. You only have it for a fleeting moment. Don’t squander your youth. You’ll have plenty of time for bitterness and cynicism when you’re older. Look at Agent.
Retiring, why not sell to Stan who seems to be such a wonderful fit for the business? How long would it take for him to run off all the business with his “charming” personality?
Unfortunately, companies do put some value on having a degree. In some you can’t even get the receptionist position without one. They think it shows you can stick to something, get along in a group, and have learned life lessons. I waited tables when I was 17 for 4 years, had 6 roomates, and paid all my own bills. I learned 100% more doing that than I would have going to college.
I have a receptionist who is not degreed. She does have very good phone skills, has applied herself to learn several different jobs in the office, good computer skills. She has not expressed herself on being a CSR yet and may not want the pressure CSR’s are under all the time to get quotes out and processing business. She is loyal and shows up every work day. And yes, she does not feel entitled.
How do you know that you learned 100% more waiting tables than going to college if you never went to college?
Fair question, but I’ve met plenty of people that went to college and many have no common sense and don’t know when to come in from the rain. When you’re paying your own rent at 17 you learn alot about how the world works. My sister has 2 masters degrees and she can’t function in the world on her own. I don’t think 4 years in a dorm would have taught me half as much as getting out there on my own. For no college degree, I am very well-educated.
This is irrelevant. Whether or not you learn anything in college makes no difference to the fact that, without a degree, you cannot get an entry level job. Its a six-figure checkbox, nothing more.
I understand. I was just answering the question. And I think I told you what when I hire, I look at things other than a college degree. So it’s not prevalent everywhere. Mainly large corporations. It’s easy to get swallowed up and overlooked in large corporations, too.
You seem overly prejudiced against those with a college degree based on (1) the fact you do not have one, and (2) your views regarding your sister. Perhaps deep down you either regret not having a college degree or feel inadequate for not having one. I financed all of my education (that which was not covered by scholarships for academics and sports), and I also waited tables, worked for an attorney, nannied and held other jobs (this is while I was a college student). I guess everyone has a different definition of “well-educated.”
Let me guess. A degree in Psychology? I do regret not having a degree, but I was not in a position to obtain one 37 years ago. They didn’t hand out student loans like they do now. I have a 125 IQ and have 5 insurance designations. I think “well-educated” aptly describes me. How about you college grad?
i hope this trend with change soon for the good of all of us!
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These comments by boomers are so ridiculous. Boomers might be the most selfish generation in American history and they have the audacity to criticize the youth. I have three degrees, all cum laude and all from state schools. I worked full time throughout all of it and I still graduated with 100k in debt. Law schools are being sued for lying about their employment statistics. It took me 8 months to find a job. ANY JOB. That job paid $9 an hour. Healthcare costs are skyrocketing and the only people who can afford it are the elderly because of government sponsored medicare. Good luck buying a house, having kids, or starting a life.
You know why kids today dont show respect? Because it doesnt matter. There are no jobs and no future. Healthcare, housing, and education are unaffordable. Why not goof off? There is no future.
Meanwhile, the Greatest Generation takes government money hand over foot in the form of Medicare, SS, not to mention the best jobs which they will never leave because they didn’t save any money despite living through arguably the greatest economic boom that man has ever known.
Yet 22 year olds are the problem. Yeah right. Do us all a favor and just say nothing. You already bled the country dry, do you really need to add insult to injury?
Stan, Your comment may be one of the worst I have seen on IJ in several years. How dare you criticize the Greatest Generation! You would be speaking either German or Japanese if it weren’t for them and their sacrifice. You aren’t even smart enough to realize that Social Security is not an entitlement, but earned through many years of work and paying taxes into the system. By the way, they created the greatest economic boom in the history of the country, not entitlement jokers like you. Now, go praise Obama again for “fundamentally changing America” and creating a society that is on the downhill slide and ruining private business with taxes and overbearing regulations which do not create jobs.
It is not clear if Stan is aware that the Greatest Generation is the generation that preceded the Me Generation. I largely agree with his comments about the Boomers, though, who have enjoyed the fruits of the sacrifices of the Greatest Generation and have not paid it forward (creating the housing and college bubbles, failure to ensure long-term solvency of entitlement programs, political dysfunction for the past two decades – all of which serves to screw over Gen Y and beyond).
Youngin, you are still two generations off in your assessment. It is the Boomer’s kids who are creating the “Me” generation of today the way they are raising their kids. Good job, awesome, here is a trophy for participation and no work ethic instilled for future success. The Progressive left, through the schools are even teaching revisionist history of the country and have apparently corrupted Stan’s mind and possibly yours. Thank your Progressive buddies for this mess and making so many failure to launch students who have no shot at a job.
Agent, it was the Boomers who were first described as the Me Generation. They were the ones who raised their kids with the everybody-gets-a-trophy mentality. You can be sure I am not raising my kids that way. This country has fallen far on your watch and I expect my kids to have way fewer opportunities than I had – so you can be sure I will teach them about the real world in a way my clueless boomer parents never did.
“Boomers” are the children born in the (approximately) 10 years following WWII. Weren’t they the hippies? Let’s do the math: WWII ended in 1944, boomers were born 1945 – 1954, the oldest boomers would have been 15 in 1960, the “hippie” years were late 60′s early 70′s. Yeah, that was the boomers.
So, all baby boomers have this great work ethic and are awesome law abiding people? Yeah, you keep that happy thought.
Baby boomers are the children of the greatest generation. They did not fight in WWII, their parents did. Can you be right about anything?
Tell your Republican friends that SS is not an entitlement.
You mean the greatest economic boom that went bust during a Republican president’s administration then needed a Democratic president’s administration to restore it?
Hey Ron, are you Stan’s brother? Baby Boomers did fight in a little conflict called Vietnam, many in Iraq and Afghanistan since those wars have been going on for quite a few years. Can you be right about anything? I have already stated that Social Security is not an entitlement. Are your reading skills that bad? Are you saying that Obama has restored the economy? You have been puffing some more of that weed.
Agent, Social Security both is and is not an entitlement program. You are correct that the retirement aspect of the program is not strictly an entitlement – because benefit eligibility must be earned. The disability portion is an entitlement.
Instead, Social Security is an inter-generational Ponzi scheme in which current earners support current beneficiaries. Which means that the first generation to receive benefits (starting in the 30′s) did not earn them – this may explain some of Stan’s comments although it would have been the parents of the Greatest Generation who would have received most of the unearned benefits.
Either way, SS is a pay-as-you-go system which has long been known to have a long term solvency issue due to the large number of baby boomers needing to be supported by a small number of workers. Of course, the boomers while be on the winning end of this imbalance and so they have done nothing about it politically. They figure it’s not their problem because they’ll be dead by the time the program becomes cash flow negative. It pretty much the polar opposite of the attitude taken by the greatest generation, which is why Gen Y-ers are so disgusted with the Boomer generation.
You said, “How dare you criticize the Greatest Generation! You would be speaking either German or Japanese if it weren’t for them and their sacrifice.” That was a direct reference to WWII. Can you deny that?
How exactly did fighting in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan keep us from speaking German or Japanese?
Republicans are the ones who have tried putting SS on the chopping block referring to the program as an entitlement.
I have provided many statistics showing the economy has improved. How about you start providing some statistics showing the economy has gotten worse?
Do you have any evidence, besides referencing my posts, that I have and/or continue to smoke weed? If not, I will again request you cease making any reference to me using any illegal substance. Thank you.
Stan, you mention taking money from the government in the form of Medicare and Social Security, do you not understand that, each and every individual who works, and has payroll taxes taken from their paycheck each and every week has paid into Medicare and Social Security every day that they work. These are not entitlements, regardless what of what anyone says. If you get a paycheck Stan, you pay into these programs, so that means that when you retire, you are eligible to use the programs. Which means, you really shouldn’t point fingers at individuals who have worked their entire lives and paid into a system that was put into place to assist retirees.
Secret, Stan doesn’t have a clue about Medicare, Social Security or how it is not an entitlement and that people actually pay in their whole working lives to get it at retirement. Then, Social Security benefits are taxed when received. Think of it as double taxation. Your income is taxed while working, then your Social Security is taxed when you get it. We have Al Gore and Clinton to thank for that.
Please stop spreading misinformation. Not all Social Security benefits are taxed.
Right, the key difference here is that you get something out of SS. Currently, we are paying in, but there will be no money to pay out.
If only we had another Bush in office we could have enjoyed the peace and prosperity of ’00-’08.
You’re being facetious, right???
Yes, I was.
Whew! You had me worried for a minute.
Forgive the generational mixup, I will clarify: people over 50 are the problem. People 30-49 (Gen Xish) probably got the shortest end of the stick. And people under 30 have been able to vote in approximately 2 elections. Blaming them for anything shocks the conscience.
The fact of the matter is that after WWII, America was the only functioning manufacturer of goods. This lead to unprecedented prosperity (along with, wait for it, a democratic program called The New Deal). The notion that the old folks did anything to “earn” this prosperity is laughable at best, and insulting at worst.
The young people today are the most educated generation in history. And if you think that what worked for you in the past can work for your grandson, think again. America changed and it wasnt for the better. And it was under your watch that this change occurred. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I am certainly ashamed of you.
Stan, you are of the same ilk as Ron and Libby. Voted for Obama twice and proud of it. If your generation is the most educated generation in history, how come they don’t have viable skills to work in this economy and can’t or won’t find work. I am ashamed of you for posting this trash. Find another forum to vent your OWS rhetoric.
Hey, now! I’m in not in the same “ilk” as anyone Agent. Leave me out of your skirmish with Stan.
I am over 50 and I have worked since finishing high school. My parents did the same. It was not those over 50 who decided to dumb down the country’s school system. It was those who came after us. Young people today may be highly educated but knowledge does not always equal ability. Regardless of what generation you claim, or the number of degrees you hold, if you are not willing to work hard and put forth effort required, you are simply not going to advance in your career or earn the respect of those around you.
Ron, does your revisionist history book not teach you that the “Greatest Generation” fought against the Germans and Japanese and kicked butt for 4 years after we were attacked at Pearl Harbor? Veterans who have fought in subsequent wars in Korea, Vietnam and others are the boomers, got it?
Your other comments are not even worth responding to since your brain is so warped into your dogma. Anyone who thinks Obama has done a good job in recovering this economy should be in a padded cell since they might hurt themself or others.
I know which generation did what.
Do you believe that baby boomers fought in WWII or not? Stan was criticizing the selfishness of baby boomers, then you defend them by stating, “How dare you criticize the Greatest Generation! You would be speaking either German or Japanese if it weren’t for them and their sacrifice.”
How successful were you and your baby boomer friends in Korea and Vietnam?
Ron, you are so dumb you can’t figure out the difference between the Greatest Generation and the Baby Boomers. Baby boomers were born after WW2, not WW11, got it? By the way, Democrats were in charge of the Korean Conflict or as Harry Truman said, “Police Action”. The vets over there thought they were in a war. Vietnam also was run by Democrats, Kennedy & LBJ for most of it and it took a Republican to extracate our troops- Nixon. Perhaps you should pitch your books and buy some with the true history.
Baby boomers are people born during the demographic Post–World War II baby boom between the years 1946 and 1964. The “Me” generation in the United States is a term referring to the Baby Boomer generation and the self-involved qualities that some people associated with it.
Generation X – Born: 1966-1976. Coming of Age: 1988-1994
Generation Y, Echo Boomers or Millenniums – Born: 1977-1994. Coming of Age: 1998-2006
Now, having cleared all of that up, there is enough blame to go around. However, I think that Gen X has at least as much, if not more, responsibility for the recent fall in the economy as the baby boomers. These were the bright and shining stars of Enron, Lehman Bros., Goldman Sachs, and Merrill-Lynch.
Milleniums, you are getting screwed. Good news for you is that you are now in line to take power. Do it quickly and don’t forget to use the rearview mirror.
Are you so stupid you do not know the difference between the Roman Numeral for 2 (II) and 11?
Libby, I agree with this. Perhaps we can find a middle ground after all?
Uh, Agent, WWII is the correct way of writing the abbreviation for the second World War. That’s an I I not a 1 1 after the WW.
Stan – I think we already have middle ground. I don’t disagree with much of what you say, more with how you are saying it.
I want young people to succeed. And I think the insurance business is a fantastic opportunity for them. It has been very good to me.
What I don’t appreciate is a young person coming in and doing an entry-level job for 6 months and expecting a promotion and raise. Business doesn’t work that way. Because you become proficient in one small area does not mean you now “know it all”. Come and ask me for more work and responsibility. That will impress! Then you will get the promotion and the raise. Guaranteed.
Are you on the company side or agency side? More upward mobility available on the agency side in my opinion.
“Agent says: Veterans who have fought in subsequent wars in Korea, Vietnam and others are the boomers, got it?”
Umm. I don’t think any boomers fought in Korea. The Korean War was from 25 June 1950 – 27 July 1953. The oldest Boomers would have still been in grade school when it ended.
Wikipedia actually has a longer time frame for boomers than I thought: “Baby boomers are people born during the demographic Post–World War II baby boom between the years 1946 and 1964.”
By Wiki’s definition, boomers definitely would have been involved in Vietnam and the wars following it.
Agent, thank you for the support. To answer your “How come they don’t have viable skills to work in this economy and can’t or won’t find work” question:
1) There are no jobs (see above in re the loss of manufacturing, destruction of unions contributing to stagnation of real wages since 1970, and failure of boomers to ever retire since they couldnt save anything
2) Reluctance of companies to invest in new workers. The specialization of skills required for today’s workforce cannot be met by education. So young people are now stuck in the enviable situation of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a BA credential (the cost of which, again, was driven up by boomers in charge of universities) that doesnt train them to do a job.
Combine 1 & 2 with with the fact that boomers broke the social contract by outsourcing labor, immediately firing everyone despite investment (my dad was laid off after 23 years of service), and its not hard to see why young people dont have jobs.
Don’t worry though. Yours is coming. When we do finally turn the tides in the electorate, the first thing to go is the government coddling that the elderly have enjoyed for so long: no more medicare, no more SS, no more tax breaks.
You all are 10 years away from getting a taste of the winner-take-all style capitalism that has destroyed the American middle class. At least I am giving you fair warning. You’re welcome.
Still posting that trash, huh Stan. I laugh at your conclusion about the destruction of the unions. The unions are part of the problem driving wages up so high with their benefit packages that the manufacturers are not competitive with the rest of the world. Unios outlived their usefulness 50 years ago and should be abolished in a modern society. It is no wonder why companies have outsourced so much in a highly taxed, over regulated country like we have now. You can thank Progressives and Obama for the mess we are in and not creating the conditions condusive to hiring.
Wow, Stan. You had me until the “Don’t worry though, yours is coming part”. You do realize that your dad is probably a baby boomer, right? And he worked hard for 23 years at a job that didn’t value his tenure. The people that fired him were most likely of his same generation. Not all baby boomers made the bad decisions that have led us to where we are today. Some of us just got up every morning, went to work, worked hard, and were told we didn’t really need to worry about retirement because we had social security. Were we also the ‘me’ generation? Yes. Did we live beyond our means at times? Yes. Does that mean all of our hard work over the past 38 years should be negated by some bitter Gen Y’er? No. You don’t have to like all the choices that were made, but to deprive an entire generation of the fruits of their labors over a lifetime is just wrong. You should be focusing on how to make things better for this country, not getting back at an entire generation made up of (for the most part) decent, hard-working people.
My dad is for sure a baby boomer. And he’s just as out of touch as you guys are (sorry dad, I love you but its the truth).
No one is negating your hard work, what we are negating is this idea that somehow you’re harder working or more deserving than today’s generation. You have your flaws. We all do. In fact, I dont really believe that there is a difference between generations at all. The old have always hated the young.
But at least you had the advantage of employment for 30 years. We dont have that. So it is astonishing to have nothing, and still have old people complain about you. When I fleece someone, I at least have the decency to take my winnings and be quiet.
Also, the irony of “deprive an entire generation” is just too much. Youre generation has govt healthcare. Ours does not. Your generation will receive SS. Ours will not. Your generation could afford education and housing. Ours can not.
Quite the deprivation, Libby.
“Old people”??? I beg your pardon, Sonny. I HAVE worked harder than you. You’re just starting out. Do you know what I made at my first insurance job? $650 a month. I had to pay rent, a car payment, and everything else that goes with being independent. Now, adjust that for inflation and you are probably in the same boat. I had to save for 3 months to buy my first 13″ TV. You can watch TV on your freaking IPhone, which by the way I can’t afford right now. Or an IPad. You are way too young to be so bitter. Instead of complaining about us, why not learn from us? We may not be techno-savvy, but we know insurance.
Easy Libby… He is a kid just starting out. Dont u know he knows it all? He read it in a book.
Wow, Stan. Bitter much? You sound like an old man already. “What we are negating is this idea that somehow you’re harder working or more deserving than today’s generation.” Spoken in such general terms. Let me tell you something, sweetie. I am a 58 yr old that has worked her butt off in the insurance business for 40 yrs. Prior to that, I was raised by a widowed mother who worked her butt off anywhere she could get a job (my father WAS one of the greatest generation—WWII—front lines in Anzio). From the time I was 12 until I “moved on up” to the insurance world, I worked most summers picking cotton in the Texas heat. I also worked in the CA deserts picking whatever fruits needed picking for a few of those years. In CA, we lived 14 people to ONE house in what were called “campos.” I guess “camp” is the literal translation. And forget about minimum wage. We made about ONE DOLLAR an hour & worked TEN HOURS a day.
I graduated at the top of my class & never went to college. You know why? Because eating was more important to me & I didn’t want to spend another 4 years starving. Insurance was hard at the beginning but I knew what was waiting for me outside if I quit. I made minimum wage for many years & the only raises I got were when minimum wage went up (I am AGAINST raising the minimum wage). So tell me, Stan, how many of YOUR generation will work at WHATEVER decent legal work there is out there? Or are you just TOO GOOD to get your hands dirty at making an honest living? That’s what I see in so many of “your ilk.” You are NOT harder working than my generation. Whatever we may have screwed up along the way, at least WE CREATED it first. What have you done?
As far as the social security, my husband & I (both 58) started paying into SS when we were 16 yrs old. Combined, we have paid over 80 yrs into the system. And you’re going to tell me it’s an entitlement? We’re not retiring anytime soon either.
I’ve read all your comments in this thread & I can say you are one of the most disrespectful young people I have come across in a long time. I feel so sorry for your parents to have raised such a human.
Wow, Stan. Bitter much? You sound like an old man already. “What we are negating is this idea that somehow you’re harder working or more deserving than today’s generation.” Spoken in such general terms. Let me tell you something, sweetie. I am a 58 yr old that has worked her butt off in the insurance business for 40 yrs. Prior to that, I was raised by a widowed mother who worked her butt off anywhere she could get a job (my father WAS one of the greatest generation—WWII—front lines in Anzio). From the time I was 12 until I “moved on up” to the insurance world, I worked most summers picking cotton in the Texas heat. I also worked in the CA deserts picking whatever fruits needed picking for a few of those years. In CA, we lived 14 people to ONE house in what were called “campos.” I guess camps is the literal translation. And forget about minimum wage. We made about ONE DOLLAR an hour & worked TEN HOURS a day.
Wow, Stan. Bitter much? You sound like an old man already. “What we are negating is this idea that somehow you’re harder working or more deserving than today’s generation.” Spoken in such general terms. Let me tell you something, sweetie. I am a 58 yr old that has worked her butt off in the insurance business for 40 yrs. Prior to that, I was raised by a widowed mother who worked her butt off anywhere she could get a job (my father WAS one of the greatest generation—WWII—front lines in Anzio). From the time I was 12 until I “moved on up” to the insurance world, I worked most summers picking cotton in the Texas heat. I also worked in the CA deserts picking whatever fruits needed picking for a few of those years. In CA, we lived 14 people to ONE house in what were called “campos.” I guess camps is the literal translation. And forget about minimum wage. We made about ONE DOLLAR an hour & worked TEN HOURS a day. And also forget about food stamps & welfare. Those were out of the question as well.
Done that, double like for a double post. You took Stan out behind the woodshed.
The point of my post is that you were able to move up in the best economic boom in american history. This was not a boom of your creation, it was the byproduct of WWIII. Specifically, if you destroy the manufacturing capacity of the rest of the industrial world, America is in a pretty great spot.
Young people today are not as fortunate.
So, no, youre not any harder working. And you’re not less harder working. People are people and they have been since the beginning of time.
Agent, isnt it about lunchtime? Surely youre entitled to a break by now?
How come you criticize me for double posts, but applaud Done That? Hypocrite!!
How exactly did she tak Stan out to the woodshed? All she did was provide her life story. I am sure he is hurtin’ now.
I am confident that in 40 years someone 58 years old will have a similar story to tell. We need to stop with the “my generation is better and/or works harder than your generation” and just grow up. Each generation is unique with their own advancements, challenges and triumphs.
There are plenty of examples of hard woking people who made major sacrificies to become or will become successful in every generation and also lazy, privileged entitled people.
So Stan thinks we have already had WWlll. Sorry, my computer doesn’t do small l’s well.
Agent, so close, oh so close. Unions were the last vestibule (here is a definition of vestibule, in case you are confused http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vestibule) for the american blue collar. It is true that some unions grew too powerful, but the balance has swung too far. Without the collective bargaining power that unions provide, the common man simply does not cary enough sway to improve his lot in life.
This is what happens when you have a chronic over-supply of labor.
BTW, I had to really laugh at your complaint that “unions drive up wages.” Wow, what a terrible outcome for people to earn a living wage. Give me a break, brah.
Are you still there, Agent, or did you concede the point? Or are you still typing out your reply with one finger like most of the other old folks?
Kidding of course. I know that the joke is on me. I can’t afford health insurance.
Stan, I do take a lunch break and cannot sit in front of my computer 8 straight hours like you apparently can. I don’t concede any of your points. There was a time 100 years or so that unions were necessary because large employers had the upper hand on wages and benefits and working conditions. That day is long gone. It is well known that the large automakers have not been able to compete due to the extremely generous benifit packages unions have negotiated and the high per hour wages. Why is it that Toyota can put in a non union factory in Tennessee, pay employees good wages and benefits, put out a quality product vs GM trying to make a Volt in Detroit with union wages/benefits. The Volt is a dismal failure that can’t be given away and they blow up in a wreck. Why did the union labor at GM make Cobalts with defective ignition switches, didn’t do a recall for 10 years and 13 people die because of it? Their new female CEO has her hands full on that one. Obama may have to bail them out again. By the way, talk about outsourcing jobs, GM has several plants in China now. What was wrong keeping the jobs in America?
That is also ridiculous. The large automakers couldnt succeed because they built products people didnt want: large gas guzzling SUVs that broke down.
Honda built small cars that needed minimum maintenance. Unions affected margins, not the substandard product.
The fact of the matter is that unions redistribute the gains of production, they dont contribute to a product that the market doesnt want.
Turn off foxnews, old man. This is the future. Hillary ’16!
PS classic boomer: taking long lunch breaks instead of putting in long hours necessary for success. Such a sense of entitlement. You cant eat at your desk like everyone else?
Sorry Stan, My lunch break was with a company rep and we discussed writing business, a concept you are not familiar with. By the way, are you a union organizer or do you actually have a job in the insurance industry? Perhaps you are SEIU and want to organize your office. I have not seen any of our other liberal friends espouse the virtues of unions like you have. You should check the lineup for all the Automakers. They feature small economy cars all the way up to the SUV’s. Yes, I drive a crossover SUV and it is much more fuel efficient than the SUV’s of the past produced by union labor.
Stan – there are still many blue collar jobs that pay a very high wage (see my comments about mechanics, plumbers, and electricians.) The reason for this is an under-supply of labor. If the kids coming out of college today were not so averse to getting their hands dirty and wearing a blue collar instead of a white one, they could have steady work that paid a handsome wage.
And Sonny, I’m 55, type 90 WPM, and have another 7 years before I retire. Believe me, I WILL retire. Where are you? I don’t see you over at my desk asking my opinion on things or trying to learn from me what you don’t know you don’t know. You have 3 degrees! What could you possibly learn from an old geezer like me? Your bigotry against the gray hairs is palpable. We’re not keeping you from moving up. You just have to do it the same way we did. One step at a time. You are no more entitled to a job than I am. Get over yourself.
You are correct, those blue collar jobs do do well because of the undersupply of labor. Much of that undersupply comes from boomers like yourself, or maybe your kids (I dont know just how gray your hair is) encouraging young people to get an education and get a degree to improve their lot in life (see, et al, Agent’s comment at APRIL 22, 2014 AT 3:35 PM).
The fact of the matter is that when you started your career, the economy and world was far different than it is today. And the change has not been for the better. To blame young people for not working hard or for having a sense of entitlement for wanting the same things that you had in life (ie a good job that pays a good wage), is foolish and myopic.
Besides, what could you possibly teach me? You’re so hopelessly out of touch with how labor markets work. When a 22 year old goes to compete with 400 of her peers for one job that barely pays minimum wage, the result is that no amount of hard work will make a difference. Let me explain to you why that is.
The reason that you cant move up is because, and stay with me here, companies do not pay for value. They pay the bare minimum to get you to do a job. In fact, the whole idea of a business is predicated on the idea that an employee provides more value to the business than it costs to pay them to do the job. So if youre an employer, you hire one young person to do a job for $9 an hour. And the second they ask for more money, you toss them out and hire a second one who is just as desperate.
And finally, you actually are keeping us from moving up. By not retiring until youre 62, youre taking up a spot that a young person could occupy. Didn’t you save enough over the last 30 years?
Libby, I have been re-reading my comments to you and I apologize for the last paragraph above. Unnecessarily dickish on my part.
Just when do you think I should retire, Stan? Believe it or not, 62 is still very young. You’ll find out how young once you age a little yourself.
I agree that corporate greed has run amok. But it’s not just young people that have been getting the shaft. I was making 6 figures in 2008 before I was laid off. I now make half that. Is it still more than you make? Probably. But I’m sorry, I’m worth more than you are right now. I have 34 years experience under my belt. That has to count for something or what’s the point?
And I’ll tell you what I could teach you. Tons. I don’t know what your field is, but if it’s insurance-related I know about it. I’ve done it. I can teach you how to do it faster, better, and more efficiently. That kind of knowledge and skill is what gets you moved up. Not going in and demanding a raise because you’ve shown up every day for 6 months. You have to make yourself stand out and you don’t do that by sitting around bitching and moaning that the “old people” won’t retire and get out of your way. Your boss is probably one of those so-called old people. Not a very good way to stay in his/her good graces.
I don’t want my boss to retire. I will never learn enough of what she knows to even think about moving up.
Oh, Stan, I won’t be retiring before I’m 65. Sorry. I did that job hopping thing for a decade or so. Now, I’ve doubled down on my contributions to my retirement account, but it’ll be while before I have enough to retire.
Libby, if Stan’s boss knew what Stan thinks about him and other “experienced” professionals in the office, he would be handing him a cardboard box and sending him on his way.
Would you fire Stan based solely on what he thinks of others? What if he is the most productive employee in your office and shows the most potential? Very short-sighted of you. But then again, that is par for the course.
Nah, I don’t hate my boss. Shoot, he’s just trying to get by like me. This might shock the rich “business writing” agency owners who know about both customers AND payroll, but supervisors of $9 employees dont have it much better than the employees themselves.
Surprisingly, I don’t even hate you guys! What I do hate is this idea that the youth are somehow different than you all were 30 years ago. We are not, in fact, we are your grandchildren! And the point of all this is that you cannot have an underclass of highly educated young people who are unable to find meaningful work.
This is a wealthy nation, and the great promise of america should be that the next generation has it better than the one before it. This is no longer the case for a myriad of reasons, but “entitlement” or “obamacare” or any of these other ridiculous FoxNews talking points are not one of them.
I am a 6th degree blackbelt in the Kama Sutra, I have much to teach.
Oh, Grasshopper. Thou not knowest what thou not knowest! There is still much work to be done!
Destro, you are a riot! Thanks for bringing a little fun to the discussion. :)
The world will be much different when your children enter the job market, just as it was when my parents entered the job market. That’s call life. And change. To think things should remain the way they were 35 years ago is myopic and naive.
And I’ll say it again. You are no more entitled to a job than I am. What makes you think you are?
Stan, your posts tell us everything we need to know about you. Are you one of those $9 per hour employees? I have never started an employee for that measley wage, even a file clerk or receptionist. No wonder you hate your job and your boss. He is obviously tight and does not pay well. My advice to you is to force him to fire you, get your 99 weeks and then you can go on disability like several million have done in the age of Obama.
Guess what Libby, I agree with your comments to the very off course Stan. He must be one of those OWS guys who hates the country, hates our business and is bitter he is not in charge. I pity his boss.
hahaha agent you sell insurance! give me a break old man.
I love how boomers equate wanting the opportunity to be paid a living wage and move forward in a job with benefits = hates this country and hates business.
Get off my lawn, indeed.
Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.
Wow. That’s some list. What do you mean by “chatter in place of exercise” and “chatter before company”?
When was rising when an elder walks in a room a thing? If someone stood just because they thought I was “their elder”, I might have to hurt them. Probably a good thing this has gone by the wayside.
I, also am a little puzzled KY. I was taught manners as a child and one was don’t speak until spoken to. Also, if wearing a cap, take it off when you come inside. By the way, I didn’t know what “time out” meant or sitting in a corner for punishment. If it was bad enough, my dad would wear me out. It is strange, but I didn’t feel abused at all. I didn’t have to do that with my girls because they were well behaved, but a loud pop with a newspaper would generally get their attention and they would straighten up right away.
Say what you will about all the generational stereotypes, the root cause of the whole problem to two-fold: technology and retirement savings.
Boomers didn’t embrace the new wheel fast enough (change is terrifying, I get it). Milennials use it with ease. And when it changes again, they change too. Now there’s two totally different ways of doing the same job, one faster and with little attention to detail and the other too slow and with attention on detail. Slow doesn’t work today.
The second, retirement, is a direct result of the ever-evaporating defined benefit plans. Boomers didn’t take full advantage of ERISA in 1974 and so they’re working a lot later. Sad, but that’s the problem.
Advice to milennials, save like it’s a depression and keep banging away faster. Insurance is automating. Be a part of the automation creation, not the extinction.
So baby boomers are slow? I’d run circles around you 32. I’ve been doing this for 34 years and there isn’t a process I haven’t figured out how to do better and faster. The business may be more automated, but that still doesn’t take the place of knowledge and experience. You don’t know what you don’t know, kid.
I’m with Libby on this one, 32yroldbrkr. I’ve been responsible for automating my tasks and helping automate some co-worker’s stuff, too. I have no problem with making myself more efficient. If someone asks for help, I teach them how to do it themselves so they don’t have to wait on me. I am all about work smarter.
So 32, you are one of those skip the details type of guys in exchange for speed. How is your E&O doing when you write something omitting the details? Do you hope there is not a claim in the future to get you? There is nothing wrong with doing a job right the first time. It saves some heartaches down the road. We are told by our E&O carrier to document, document, document and if a customer rejects needed coverage, get them to sign off on the rejection. Perhaps that is why we have a good record.
In this business, the devil is in the details. This is a legally binding contract we’re dealing with here. You have to pay attention to the details!
All well received and understood. I’m not advocating recklessness. If you read what I wrote, it was an observation. And I don’t have an answer to that problem. But it’s a reality now.
32, I guess it is a reality that agents have to catch brokers and companies in their short cut mistakes. I review every policy received to see if it matches up to what I ordered on my apps. Sometimes it doesn’t and then we have to get corrections made. In that quest for speed and shortcuts, it ends up costing more time to do endorsements correcting the mistake.
“Writing business?” Oh, Agent! You even sound old! I truly hope that you never lose your “writing business” job, because I gotta tell you sir, its rough out here. It takes a young man’s energy to make it.
I digress, I am glad to see that you purchased a fuel efficient car. How very green of you. Maybe you’re more liberal than you let on?
It takes a gray hair’s experience.
Silly me Libby. I thought you were a bombshell blonde. Have you been doing the hair color thing in recent years?
My hair is now white (runs in the family.) It doesn’t suit my coloring, so yes, I cheat a little. BTW, I AM a bombshell blonde…
Sorry Stan, I already made it and yes, real agents discuss business with company people all the time. I had plenty of years working very hard to make it in this business both as a company employee, producer for an agency and later the owner of my own agency and I don’t need a condescending snot nose like you telling me anything about how to run my business or downgrading my efforts. You have no concept of what it takes to make an agency go, pay the bills, make payroll, deal with markets, customers etc. Go fly a kite.
“what it takes to make an agency”
So what, the converse of this is that everyone who isnt an agency owning job-maker is by definition a louse who deserves their lot in life?
So asinine. Face it, 90% of people work hard and want to get ahead. I have no doubt that youre the same. But if you think for one second that youre more special than the youth of today because youve worked in insurance for 100 years, well I would have to respectfully disagree, Mr. Geico.
We’re not more special, but neither are you. We should, however, be respected for the years of experience we have in this business. It’s very intricate and complicated and you could learn a thing or two from us if you weren’t so bitter. How did you get this way at such a young age?
Student loans that I can’t pay back, poor job prospects that lead to depression, and the constant drone from those older than me that this is somehow my fault.
All the comments above complain about young people being lazy and entitled, and you guys are upset about a lack of respect?
No doubt you have lots of experience. I’m sure you do. Much of it valuable. But this idea that “if only we learned a thing or two” we would somehow get good jobs that don’t exist is infuriating. It’s not about knowledge or hustle or hard work or iPads. It’s about an economy that rewards very few at the expense of many.
Bitterness is the result.
Sorry about your loans. I have debt, too. Poor job prospects? Did I mention I make HALF of what I did 5 years ago? Constant drone for those older than you? How about the constant drone of the youngins’ complaining how hard they’ve got it?
We are ALL suffering in this economy. You don’t have a corner on that market, pal. But your prospects look alot better than mine. I’m on the downward, slippery slope. You’ve got nowhere to go but up. I’ll move over when it’s time. Patience is a virtue.
And, depending on where you live, you could be making alot more than $9 an hour. What are you doing for a living?
Libby! We shouldn’t be arguing with each other, we should be fighting with Agent as one. Solidarity, Sister!
I agree with you, you certainly are getting the short end of the stick. In fact, we are kind of like opposite sides of the same coin. But I disagree that the solution is “hard work” and “patience.” Those are silly colloquialisms for children who are misbehaving in church. Redistribution, Libby, that is the solution. No one is going to give it to me, nor to you. We have to take it.
You should not be making $50k! I should! That is an entry level salary for an educated knowledge worker. In fact, your plight further makes my point. Your company is not paying you based on value. With your years of experience, you are worth more than that. They are paying you the bare minimum to do a job because they know you have no other options. Meanwhile, the execs of big insurance are making millions upon millions. Now you tell me, under the umbrella of hard work and experience, are they 500x harder working and more experienced than you are?
Of course not. Unless maybe they know how to “write business” on their lunch breaks, in which case, all bets are off.
PS I still disagree that you have it harder than the youth. At least you had 30 years of a good salary, including several at 100k plus. But hey, reasonable minds can disagree.
LOL! Stan, we are opposite sides of the same coin. And I agree that you should be making much more than $9 per hour. We are both getting the shaft due to corporate greed, which BTW is what caused this recession/depression in the first place. And yes, I did enjoy years of a decent salary but it took a long, long time to get there. I worked in this business for almost 20 years before I broke the $50k mark in 1999. It was a rapid upward shot for me from that time until 2008 when the bottom fell out.
So I didn’t exactly enter the workforce and rise to stardom over night. And it did take hard work, but I also finally demanded my shot. And luckily for me, it worked out OK. My boss didn’t want to do it, but I told him he’d better start looking for a new Claim Manager AND an Account Executive if he didn’t promote me.
You will have your time. I have faith in you.
Libby, have you looked at the unemployment statistics for people under 25?
We get that hard work is important. In the long term it is the number one success factor.
What many of you don’t seem to want to acknowledge is the ever-important aspect of luck. I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky that I happened to graduate college at the beginning of a period of economic expansion and was able to get my foot in the door.
Had I been born 5 years later, I would be completely hosed. I would not have been able to find a job in my desired field out of school. Period. Not because I’m not talented, motivated or have a poor work ethic. Because, as Stan has said, when you have 400 people applying for 1 job, you have to be at the very top of your class.
How many of you carried perfect 4.0 GPA’s in college?
Perhaps 30 years from now, many Millenials will look back on this recession and laugh. Perhaps as the economy picks up, employers will start eating up all these overeducated late 20-somethings who have been working 16 hours a week at Panera for the past 6 years.
Or, more likely, they will go to the back of the line because they have no relevant experience and their “skills” are already outdated.
I understand that jobs are hard to come by, believe me. It took me 2-1/2 years to get into my employer of choice. I interviewed for three different positions. One outside of my field of expertise for $24k a year just to get my foot in the door. I emailed monthly to keep my name in front of them all the while working for a hellhole, driving 45 minutes each way, to make $18 an hour. I get it.
With that being said, I still think the insurance industry holds immense opportunity for young people if only because of the demographics of the existing workforce. We need young blood to come in and take over. But we need them to be eager, humble, and patient. No different than when I was coming up. I started in insurance answering phones and filing. (Although Sarge and Agent seem to think that’s all I do now.)
Do not despair young people! It seems glum now, but the funny thing about the world is that is changes. Constantly. This too shall pass. Hang in there and best of luck!
P.S. Find a mentor and a champion.
“youngin’ says: when you have 400 people applying for 1 job, you have to be at the very top of your class.”
Not necessarily the top of your class. It was long before the “boom” that I had to compete for 1 job against about 250 people. I was no where near the top of my class, but I got the job. That was my first job in insurance, too. I remember after I was hired talking with the managers who hired me. It wasn’t about my grades, it was really about my personality. I excelled at that job, too. Of course, I’m one of the over achievers, so I don’t mind putting in the extra effort to be the best.
You rue that day, don’t you KY? The day you got into insurance? LOL!!!
You may be right. But. I love my current job, so … I’m okay with that first one. It was the detour into health insurance that made me insane. I’m back in P&C and this is where I’ll stay. ;)
I have to say, I love this business! There is never a dull moment and just when you think you have a handle on something, it changes. It has kept me captivated for the last 34 years. But there are times….
Just give up, then. Why work hard when you can blame all of your problems on everyone else? Got a headached? Call out sick…someone else will pick up the slack. Like you said, the deck is completely stacked against you, so just don’t even bother trying.
Here’s something that I’ve had to explain to both my 6- and 3 year-olds: Life is not meant to be fair. Some people will not have to work hard and will be privileged, where others will have to bust their tails their entire life to barely get by. It’s called life.
Who’s happier in life, the person who has everything or the one who appreciates what they have? Is it the one who has everything handed to them, or the one who has to get by using the sweat of their brow? What you have today you can lose completely tomorrow, so don’t take it for granted.
I wish you the best of luck and hope it all works out for you.
I find that the more someone tells you to buck up, life isnt fair, the more likely it is that they dont have to do it themselves. I tell you what, you try to improve your lot in life by getting three degrees, then you tell me about “giving up.”
Jesus, no wonder kids today act like they are, they have pariahs for parents. And dont worry, Ill eat my vegetables and brush my teeth too.
Life isn’t fair. I was a stupid teenager once-upon-a-time. I got married my first semester in college, then had two kids. I was on pretty much all the different welfare programs for food & medical care. I stayed in school. I got student loans and a job. While I had a useless, white trash husband and two toddlers. I graduated finally, with a crap GPA in accounting. My first job paid a little better than Libby’s, but it was about 2/3 or even 1/2 what I expected to make. I sucked it up for almost 4 years before I got that job in insurance.
Do not ever say we don’t know about sucking it up because we had it “easy” by comparison. No, it wasn’t. Did you know there was a recession before this one? We got through that one and you will get through this one.
Dont tell Agent that you were on government programs – - programs that allowed you to pull yourself out of poverty btw – - he will tell you that youre a moocher and a taker.
Still, for comparisons sake, I had great grades (honors in undergrad, magna cum laude in law school). The world is different, specifically you found an accounting job in a company that was growing, allowing you to move up. If you think that you can get a job based on “personality” today, well you’re beyond help.
The world has changed. Its a sad fact, but a fact all the same.
Let me clarify one thing. This is not to indict your hard work or detract from what you accomplished. What it is designed to illustrate is that you were able to work your way up. Young people cannot do that. The ladder has always been difficult to climb, but at least you were able to get your foot on a rung.
Agent already knows. We had this discussion last year, you just missed it. We also agreed that temporary assistance is acceptable.
Oh, I should have read further before I replied. I didn’t get promoted. My first job wasn’t the insurance job – I was a tax auditor for the state. No opportunity to move up. I left state government to get into insurance (in an entry level position). No promotion, there either. No opportunity. I actually got my first “promotion” by changing jobs. That was my 4th job, I think. Although, the pay wasn’t great I did have a title finally. ^_~
KY, Teenagers think their parents are the most stupid creatures on the planet. It is funny how the parents grow in knowledge as the kid gets into their 20′s and later. Obviously, poor Stan never grew up and learned anything from his parents or they did a very bad job of raising him. Now, all he can do is rail against anyone over 50 and do the blame game that he has learned from our present Commander in Chief.
Agent, that’s quite true. My children all pushed my buttons during their teens. Not long after hitting their 20′s, my boys admitted I was right in many of our disagreements. They had to learn the hard way. You would have thought being the child of a teen mom taught them life isn’t fair. Nope. Had to go out there and see for themselves.
My youngest is still a teenager, and while we sometimes butt heads, I think she’ll also grow out of it. I have hope, at least. ;)
I can’t believe how smart my Mom got after I was 25! LOL!!
Stan, there is opportunity out there to move up. I don’t know how old you are, but you are way too cynical. Things have changed, yes. But they are not as desparate as you portray. Because you haven’t “moved up” in the short time you’ve been working doesn’t mean it won’t happen. I am an impatient person, too. Slow down. Enjoy the day. The rest will come. I promise.
Also, I want to reiterate the difference between “lack of effort” and “futility.”
Lack of effort is not going to school, not sending out resumes, and still complaining. Futility is doing all the right things only to find the door closed to you. Also, for what its worth, I am a white male from a middle class background. So I have about as many advantages as its possible to have.
You have to go about finding a job like you would finding a mate. You don’t apply on-line. You call and ask for the name of the person in charge of whatever department you want into. Send them a personal letter with the reason you want to work there and a copy of you resume highlighting whatever skills you need to do that job. (Hint – I have 3 different resumes depending on the job I was going after.) Then you follow up with a phone call introducing yourself. Ask questions about their operation. People love to talk about themselves. If nothing comes of it, drop a line every 1-2 months just to check in.
Go to industry meetings. Join an association. Meet people that are in the position you want to be in. Ask them how they did it. Again, people love to talk about themselves. You need to be out there marketing YOURSELF. It won’t be long until an opportunity comes available and guess who those people will think of first? YOU!
You’ve got to be active in pursuing a career, not passive. Once hired, find a mentor and latch on. This is good advice. I hope you listen to it.
Ever think maybe it’s your attitude? Re-read your posts–you’ve already given up, man.
You have a degree? Awesome! Why’d you get it (them)? Was it because you thought you’re automatically going to land the job of your dreams, marry the girl of your dreams, and in 40 years retire fat and happy? So did everyone else.
Take what you can get in this world. Start out at the bottom, do tasks nobody else wants to do, and do them with a big grin on your face. Somebody will notice, and you’ll move up. If not, you have something to add to your resume for your next position. Be willing to relocate if that’s what it takes. Show someone that you’re DIFFERENT.
You think Libby automatically started out with “30 years of a comfortable salary”? Nope, nobody does. I can safely guarantee you that she started out at the bottom and had to work her way up. She probably is nervous that she’ll be replaced tomorrow by someone younger (no offense Libby) that will do the job for less than she’s currently making.
Or, you can always give up.
Ralph, that might have been the case 95 years ago when you were 30. But things have changed. I discussed this above, but the short version is that COMPANIES DO NOT PAY BASED ON CONTRIBUTED VALUE. They pay the bare minimum to get you to do a job. There is ample evidence of this (Libby’s slashed salary, the constant unpaid internship, etc).
Companies dont “notice,” instead they wait for you to get fed up, then they fire you and bring on another person to do the job for the same / less money. Look at Libby! Or yourself, Ralph!
Do you think that your company wouldnt move onto some young idiot like me who is desperate and willing to do your job for half price? Or are you convinced of your own value?
If they did do that, do you think you could go to another company and demand the same salary because you have a great work ethic?!
I know that I am not different. But neither are you. None of us are. So this idea that someone the youth of today are “different” in their work ethic or sense of entitlement is equally ridiculous.
All of this is academic in nature to you of course, but I can tell you, once you live it, your attitude changes dramatically.
so that’s it, then? You’ve got it figured out. There are NO COMPANIES out there that would reward you for working hard, and there’s nobody out there who would appreciate you, so just don’t even try. Libby should have just quit when they slashed her salary, and I should quit every time something happens here that I don’t like, right?
I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope you’re able to find a job that will suit you, but I honestly think you’re your own worst enemy right now. I’m sure that will enrage you even further, and instead, maybe direct all that anger into changing your attitude. It can be done.
Best of luck to you, Stan.
No, you’re right. I am sure that I will find something somewhere that keeps me from starving to death. And of course, tomorrow could be better than tomorrow. But better than bad is not necesssarily good.
Massive debt takes its toll. The monthly payments on my loans are $1900. Obviously, I make nowhere near enough to service the interest, much less the principal. So while ill be able to pay my rent and eat food, Ill never own a home or likely be able to afford marriage / children (would you advise your daughter to marry a nice young man* with that kind of debt load? I certainly wouldnt).
At a certain point attitude and effort cease to matter. I am handsome though, so I’ve got that going for me.
*Clearly, nicer than me. There are plenty of my classmates with great attitudes who work hard. I still wouldnt advise my daughter to marry them. That kind of debt load is just insurmountable.
*tomorrow could be better than today.
I understand going to college to get a degree. But 3??? I’m sorry. Why did you feel the need to get 3 degrees? For someone so book smart, you might not be so common sense smart. Did you just enjoy school so much you wanted to stay as long as you could? You had to have known you would have “insurmountable” debt if you borrowed for not only one, but three, degrees. What was your purpose in doing that? Are your degrees in the field in which you are working? If not, I am really confused by your decisions.
Nah, I originally went to law school. Then, in 2008 (which apparently was a bad year for you as well), the market collapsed which took down legal hiring with it. I saw the writing on the wall and pivoted to a JD/ MBA in an effort to move away from law to something more lucrative. It was $10k more than just the JD, so seemed like a worthwhile risk at the time. In retrospect, I dont think it mattered either way.
If I could do it all over again, I would work just as hard in highschool, get accepted into the best college I could, then spend that first semester learning to program. Then I would drop out and look for a coding job. I would list the university admittance on my resume in order to get the same “signaling” effect, but for 1/10 the cost.
Legal education is a great plus in the insurance business! You could easily get a job in claims starting out at alot more than $9 an hour. I think you’re selling yourself short. What kind of networking (people networking) do you do? Have you gotten to know any of the local players? Get out and go to some insurance &/or legal social events and cozy up to some of them. That’s the way you get in the door. Not filling out some application on-line. I don’t know of one person that got a job that way. Including me.
I know this is going to be unpopular advice, but since I actually know a few attorneys, I’m going for it. Apply for a state government job. Pay is very regimented, but it’s good experience you can use. Or, hospitals. Shoot, we paid more than $9 an hour when I was hiring admitting staff back in the dark ages (about 10 years ago).
KY, that is the popular opinion. Unfortunately, the US graduates 50k new attorneys for roughly 20k entry level jobs every year. The result of that oversupply is that those govt jobs that youre referring to are 1) extremely hard to find and 2) increasingly rare due to the sequester and other policy changes made by Agent’s elderly voting block.
Its the old adage, “Ive got mine! kick the ladder out!”
Stan, it sounds like you really didn’t know what to do with your life, so you stayed in school as long as possible and racked up massive loans. If you wanted to do computer programming or computer service, you could have gone to technical school at 1/10th the cost and many of those schools find jobs for their graduates. Those guys make very good money. I have a customer that has two locations, employees a number of techs and they are one of the leading computer tech firms in my area.
Agent, that is partially correct. At 22, I thought that I wanted to be a lawyer. Unfortunately, the path to lawyering is through lawchool, and that includes a commitment of time, loans, and effort.
But admittedly, at 22 I dont think I really understood what it meant to be a lawyer. If I had, I would have gone into programming like I said. Unfortunately, by the time I graduated, the debt was already in effect. Then again, I am not alone, and if all my friends had gone into programming with me, I wouldnt make any more money there because, AGAIN, there would be an oversupply of labor for a limited number of jobs resulting in lower salaries for all.
Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.
You are the most frustrating type of person. Whatever someone throws out there, you argue against it. We’ve given you some very good advice, yet your immediate response is “that won’t work.” You’ve been in the job market for about 5 minutes. You’d be better served to listen more and complain less.
“Do you think that your company wouldnt move onto some young idiot like me who is desperate and willing to do your job for half price?”
Do you really think you could come in and do my job at this point in your career? That’s the attitude that burns me up! You couldn’t. You don’t know enough. That’s the point I’ve been trying to make. You certainly could come in as my assistant. And I’d teach you everything I know. My last 3 assistants have gone on to fantastic careers in Risk Management and make 3 times what I make now. And they still thank me to this day.
Find a mentor. Latch on. Soak it up. It works.
BTW – what do you do for $9 an hour??? It can’t be too challenging. Get your license. Get in at a large agency. You’ll be valued and respected if you do the work.
No, I probably couldnt do it as well. But within a year, I might be functional. And that is part of the problem, most jobs aren’t that hard. Which means most of the labor force can do them, which means nearly all of us are replaceable. The reason athletes and doctors get paid so much isn’t that they are good people, its because they are the only ones that can do a particular task (plus doctors limit the supply of labor through credentialing and licensing).
Don’t misunderstand. I am not arguing that I am your professional equal. Far from it. But, if you were the only one that could do your job, they couldn’t cut your salary in half. Someone can do it sufficiently well for less money, else your employer couldn’t gouge you.
Think of it this way, you’re clearly better at your job now than you ever were. Yet youre making half. Who is collecting the surplus of your efficiency? It certainly isnt me, and it doesnt appear to be you either.
Again, labor supply is the problem. Thats it. The entire problem. 30 years ago, America was the factory of the world. There was a shortage of american labor, this led to prosperity. This is no longer the case, and we are witnessing the results.
Yes, I am not making what I used to make. But not only am I not doing the same job I used to do, I moved to a more rural area than I was before. So some of that has contributed to the reduction in wage.
We have several young producers here that consult with me on a regular basis because of my wealth of experience. I am happy to share.
Again, find a mentor. Find someone to champion you. Don’t be afraid to look elsewhere for a better opportunity. Tenacity does pay off.
Stan, have you ever heard of the PGA Tour? It is the ultimate golf tour in the world. There are about 1,000 players vying for a spot on this tour. Only about 150 get into a tournament each week and many have to play minor events to make any kind of living. That doesn’t keep them from trying. Most fail and have to take another job. How about 150 players trying to Monday qualify with 4 spots open? Now that is a tough life. Then, if they don’t make enough money when they do get their card, it is back to the minor leagues or they are out of golf altogether. I have yet to see one blame the more experienced players for taking their spots on tour. There is a lesson there for you if you can absorb it.
That is a great analogy, Agent. I actually like it. Lets take it a step further, in order to try out for the tour, you have to get a $100k credential, then, if you dont make it, you still have to pay debt on that credential. And you cant buy a house. And you cant move forward with your life. And if you look backwards in time, the number of people who played on that tour was much much greater, you see 50 years ago, America’s PGA tour was the envy of the rest of the world. Unfortunately, on a few spots on the tour are open today, but if you don’t make it, well its not like the guys who got onto the tour when it was easier will look at like your lazy or entitled or anything. I mean, hell, you just wanted to golf with your peers after all.
Blah, blah, blah. I can’t buy a house. I can’t move on with my life. I can’t, I can’t, I can’t. You know what? With that attitude, you’re right. You can’t.
I didn’t buy my first house until I was 35 and married. Get over yourself, man. You’ve got to put in the work and pay your dues just like all the rest of us. Nothing is handed to anyone.
Stan: here was your reply: “Young people today are not as fortunate. So, no, you’re not any harder working. And you’re not less harder working.” If you’re hurting for a job, there are still jobs out in the cotton fields since that isn’t harder work than what you’re doing. Oh, & by the way, “the best economic boom?” This was partly during the Carter years. Hardly an economic boom.
Sorry I did not hit “reply.” It wasn’t an option in your post. Don’t know why. Oh, probably because I’m too old to understand technology.
Get a job in the cotton fields?! Bro! What are you talking about? I am lamenting the fact that there are no career track opportunity and youre talking about the fields? Look, there are always going to be minimum wage service jobs. I should know, I am in one. That is the problem! But no one works their way from the cotton fields to the c-suite. I feel like this should be self evident.
Also, I agree that there were recessions in that 30 year period, but up until 2008, there wasn’t a single 10 year period where there was negative economic growth. Since 2008, its been anemic. The stock market has rebounded, but those gains in productivity (likely from working harder and more efficient, as Libby has done) have not trickled down into either higher wages or greater job growth.
America is stagnant and in a jobless recovery. If you cannot see that there has been a fundamental change in society, well I guess I dont know what to tell you.
what about the Armed Forces? It’s not as crazy as it sounds–it would help pay off your debt and at the same time would provide you training in other areas.
95 years ago when I was your age, a buddy of mine started out right out of college making $60k / year, only to get laid off a year later. He struggled to find anything even remotely close to his educational background, and finally enlisted in the US Navy. Probably the best decision he ever made.
I looked at this actually (JAG) to be specific. In fact, it will probably be the route that I go. The trick is to find a way to transfer out of the military without becoming a ‘lifer. Still, a constructive suggestion, so I appreciate it.
Also, be clear here, the military can still be competitive. But I agree, from what I can ascertain, it is one of the last bastions of hard work = the opportunity to advance.
The irony of course, Agent I hope youre listening, is that it is a government job.
The enlistment is not for life Stan. By the way, the military also needs dentists, physicians and other professions and many with college debt get in there, get their loans paid off and get experience and then they are ready to compete in the real world.
No, it is not, but it can be. I have several friends who enlisted out of highschool, served several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but now don’t have the requisite skills to make the jump to the private sector.
JAG appears to be the exception, as you can get trial experience. We will see though, I need to work on my physical fitness, and even JAG is getting more competitive.
I get that you don’t want to HAVE TO retire from the military, but it is an excellent retirement package. My husband is retired Army. He doesn’t have to work.
“The trick is to find a way to transfer out of the military without becoming a ‘lifer.”
Now you’ve hit a nerve. My Dad went to West Point and was a career Army officer. We had a wonderful life, traveling the world and experiencing so many things most people will never have the opportunity to experience.
You could do much worse than a career in the Armed Forces. After 20 years you have a wonderful retirement program and can easily slip into civil service for another 20 year retirement package. My father-in-law makes more money walking to the mailbox than I make in a quarter.
Quit being such a negative Nelly. Things might actually turn around for you if you work on your attitude.
You guys are awful sensitive. There is nothing wrong with choosing to stay in the military for life, but if you want to get out, it can be challenging is my point.
You can get out as soon as your tour is up.
Either that or pull a “Klinger”. Or are you too young to know that reference?
No, I know that I can legally get out. What I am saying is that its challenging to make the leap in the sense that many times military skills are not readily transferrable to the private sector. JAG may be an exception to that, which warms my heart, but wont do much for those similarly situated.
That is true for some enlisted MOS. Not so much with officers. There are many opportunities for ex-military officers. Not to mention the big push these days to hire vets.
Do you really think you are cut out for the service? You have to follow orders with no back talk. I know I wouldn’t do well with that.
Ha, who knows? I now have options since Agent just offered me $10 an hour, so the choice isn’t as easy anymore.
Yeah, but then you’d have to live in Texas AND work for Agent! I’d stay where you are! LOL!
I do agree with one of your points. America is stagnant and in a jobless recovery due to your hero Obama and his minions. They have stifled the job creators with higher taxes, more regulation and the greatest disaster in modern times, Obamacare. How do you like that “fundamental” change now? By the way, the job creators in this country are the “boomers” you hate so much.
They’re hated because they’re NOT creating the jobs, Agent. Here they are with a booming stock market and an endless supply of cheap labor and THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY. Record profits for the man!
This is the “trickle down” illusion. Look around you, Agent. You had 8 years of a supermajority + republican President + tax cuts. The middle class got squeezed even harder. The gains are coalescing at the top. Great for business writing agency owners, not so great for the rest of us.
Stan, the reason you are not doing well is that you are a leftist dufus with a bad attitude.
You misspelled “doofus.”
Agent, most of the new small businesses in the past 3 years where I live have been started by Millenials (the ones I’m aware of, anyway). They are starting their own businesses on a shoestring budget (rather than going through the barely-functioning banking system) because of the crappy job market.
If this recession has a silver lining, it’s that the Millenials are having to learn self-reliance. Hopefully it breeds a new generation of entrepreneurs who actually create real jobs.
Go get ‘em, Millenials! The world is your oyster. Hopefully you won’t mind that I’ll just quietly withdraw, collect my SS, and live out the remainder of my life in peace. This old dog is tired of hunting.
Good for you youngin. We hope these young entrepreneurs have learned some self reliance so they can succeed instead of blaming baby boomers for their plight. At least they aren’t facing 18-21% interest rates to start businesses like the millenials did during the Carter years.
Done that, I wouldn’t exactly say that the Carter years was a time of economic boom. It actually was a time of severe economic decline. I lived it and saw it first hand. There is little to recommend with very few jobs being created, extreme interest rates to either buy a house or any other goods, an energy crisis and a non leader as a President. Perhaps that is why Carter was a one term President. The country had quite enough of him after 4 years. It took a real leader like Reagan to pull this country back from the depths of that deep recession. At least Carter can now say he wasn’t the worst President in American History. The current one sailed right by him about 5 years ago.
Agent, serious question, do you truly believe that 1) Reagan was the greatest president and 2) that Obama is worse than Bush?
FDR ended the Great Depression and Lincoln saved the union. Reagan massively increased the federal deficit through military spending and ushered in the power politic of the religious right, and Reagan is the greatest president? I am all for hyperbole, but wow, that is an impressive belief.
Bush started two wars, both arguably unconstitutional, neither one funded. Further expanded the deficit through Medicare p. D, and he did it all while giving a tax break to the wealthiest of Americans. That same time, Libby saw her earning power cut in half. Conversely, Obama tried to give healthcare to millions of Americans that couldn’t afford it, and he’s the worst president?
Open your eyes, sir. Unless you’re a millionaire, you’re voting against your own interests.
Been studying those revisionist history books again Stan? It is a well known fact that during FDR’s time, this country languished in the midst of the “Great Depression” due to Progressivism, make work government jobs, the WPA. You think you have it bad now. Anyone living in those times would tell you it was 100% worse. The only way we came out of the Depression was because the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor and millions of formerly unemployed men joined the Armed Services to fight. Regarding Reagan, he inherited an economy from Carter that was very close to what we have now. It took about three years to recover the economy and create conditions for growth and millions of jobs were created. IRA’s & other retirement programs were started during that time. By the way, Carter had let the military go to pot during his time and had to be rebuilt. The result was we won the cold war and freed the former Soviet bloc satellites since the Soviet Union realized they had a failed model and couldn’t compete. On Bush, what would you have done if you were working in the Twin Towers when the Terrorists crashed the planes into them? I suppose you would have apologized and begged Bin Laden to not attack again. Open your eyes bitter young man and get to work. Also, invest in some true history books.
Oh, Agent. Who’s got the revisionist history glasses on now? It’s scary that you actually believe the stuff you spew.
To compare Reagan’s economy to the economy of 2008 is ridiculous. There is not comparison. We went through a GLOBAL meltdown in 2008, caused mostly by corporate greed and avarice. Those vultures preyed on the American people and we bought into it hand over fist. It was all smoke and mirrors and funny money and we fell for it. Hook, line and sinker.
On Bush, I wouldn’t have done nothing if I was in the Twin Towers on 9/11 because it never would have happened. He had ample warning of the attack and DID NOTHING. That tragedy is all on him.
* wouldn’t have done anything
Libby I would argue your point about the recession’s catalyst being corporate greed. I will admit that corporate greed through crony capitalism is a huge problem and part of the recession but cronyism can only occur due to government regulations. The source is government bought capitalism (which is not even close to free markets or pure capitalism). Further more the main driver of such a bad meltdown was the Federal Reserve and terrible economic policies allowed by politicians in Washington such as allowing banks to practice fractional reserve banking among other market distortion. The corporate elite do not have clean hands in it but they are only allowed to get as dirty as the fed and politicians allow them to. Which is a lot when they are funding campaigns for politicians who in turn appoint fed board members.
Oh, absolutely. They are all in bed together.
Stan, I don’t know about Agent, but I most certainly do believe that. And I don’t just believe it. I KNOW IT. Obama is the worst president in my lifetime.
Free, let’s not leave out Fannie & Freddie who were left unchecked on their loan activities by Congress who had oversight. Don’t you remember Bawney & Chris saying they were sound and no cause for alarm? I think that was right before the meltdown on the sub-prime mess. You are right that government is the root cause for the financial meltdown and the big banks & AIG took advantage of the situation only to have it blow up in their face. We are still having aftershocks to this day.
Agent I completely agree.
Reagan was easily the best of the past century. He and Lincoln are right together as the best of all time. Obama finishes a “distant last” since the country was formed. Bush is somewhere in the middle as is his daddy. Not terrible, not great. Carter is a fair amount ahead of Obama and he is really relieved.
This might be the most amazing statement so far: “Reagan was easily the best of the past century. He and Lincoln are right together as the best of all time.”
Lincoln held the country together through a civil war. Think about that. Imagine Indiana invading Illinois, resulting in the greatest loss of american life in our county’s history. And he did it with grace and eloquence, managing to define not only what it means to fight for your beliefs, but what what being an American means to all of us. A definition that has lasted for over 150 years.
Reagan was a talented communicator and an actor for the General Electric corporation. Seriously man. They are tied?
Saint Reagan, Agent??? You make me laugh! At what period did we enjoy the best economy, balanced budget, and no foreign wars??? Oh, that’s right. Clinton. If getting a little head under the desk leads to that level of prosperity, I’ll get on my knees. No problem!
If Indiana did invade IL, they would look around at each other and say “Why did we do that”???
I know its against the mainstream opinion but Lincoln was probably one of the worst presidents in my opinion (definitely in the top three worst). His unconstitutional actions where the ones that have spurred the current disregard for the constitution. He didn’t hold the country together he forced it together through an unconstitutional war.
The mainstream common stance is that he freed the slaves so it was reasonable to circumvent the constitution. However the notion that Lincoln’s opposition to slavery was the reasoning for him not allowing a broken Union is misguided at best. He was even willing at one point to compromise entrenching existing slavery where it was currently permanently (thereby eliminating expansion of it mind you)to keep the union in tact. So I will leave it to your own interpretation of the morality of that kind of compromise. Furthermore, Lincoln supported schemes for repatriation of blacks to Africa and elsewhere throughout his entire life.
Reagan on the other hand I have a harder time criticizing just because he did have a lot of the right ideas just disappointed in failed execution. I do believe he was a proponent of increasing military spending which is not a position I am found of. I believe he cut a deal on his spending budgets with a dem congress to be able to pursue a military expansion.
So in my view they are not tied. Lincoln is bottom 3 and Reagan is probably slightly above average.
LiveFree, that is pretty remarkeable. But, from my understanding, a reasonable but unpopular decision. In retrospect, I agree that his actions were drastic, but because they worked, he is haled as a hero. Interesting to think about in any event.
Libby, you make me laugh crawling under Clinton’s desk. Had Newt Gingrich not check mated him on his spending spree and shut the government down in favor of a balanced budget, Clinton would have been right down there with Carter and he, Carter and Obama would be fighting it out for last place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not gettin’ under the desk for old Newt. That’s for sure. Not that he’d object.
Wow Free, your assessment of Lincoln seems to go against the grain of several hundred million Americans. Gee, I wonder why he is on Mt Rushmore and has his own memorial in DC. Sure, he had to do a lot of things to try to restore the Union and he had plenty of enemies for sure since he got assassinated for his trouble. Perhaps your judgment is based on the fact he was a Republican. I am not sure a Democrat would have freed the slaves and did the Emancipation Proclamation.
Agent, yes I agree it goes against what most view Lincoln as and I believe I explained as such originally. I figured you would like Lincoln since you don’ really care about constitutionality and love military exspansion.
Every one in America is taught the same history by the terrible education system here and everyone surely knows that those school history texts are always 100% the truth and no other conflicting history exists.
Sarcasm aside, which I pray wasn’t lost on your feeble mind, I have studied Lincoln a great deal outside of standard schooling texts and I believe history is best understood when all conflicting histories are taking into account. Perhaps you should do some studying on him as well, although with you inability to see past the Repub vs Dem party lines I won’t hold my breath on you learning anything.
Wow! You’ve been smacked down, Agent.
LiveFree, I’m actually surprised Agent believes Lincoln was a top president. I would’ve expected Agent to be for the right of the south to secede.
FWIW: that’s the right to be separate not the slavery issue. I in no way think Agent would be for slavery. Just states rights.
Agent is not very well-educated, that’s why he believes all the hype about Lincoln. But I do wish he’d be all for secession, being from Texas and all. We’d be able to wipe a big blemish off the United States.
Agent, to clarify, yes, the Carter years were one of the worst economically. Sorry I didn’t make that clear. And our economy today isn’t much better, thanks to the current resident of OUR White House. The under 30 group(for the most part) had a big part in letting that happen because they supported him in very large numbers. And the irony is they are the ones complaining the loudest now. They should have vetted the guy & done the research. With all that education they boast about, they didn’t bother to google the Imposter.
Well he’s certainly not worse than Bush. But yeah he’s a pretty terrible president, I wish he were not re-elected but what choice was there really?
Done That & Agent,
So your argument is that young people are simultaneously lazy and entitled, yet the somehow managed to ruin the greatest country in the world, a country that you built, in just two elections?
So many problems here, but lets start with the obvious, if young people are so bad, and they were raised by you or your kids, who is really at fault? Second, assuming that they are that bad, what does it say about the resiliency of the country that you build that a bunch of twenty-somethings could completely dismantle it in such a short period of time despite holding zero economic power?
Or maybe you just dont know what youre talking about.
Stan, on 20 somethings, let’s start with Naivety, self centered and distracted with little knowledge of how the world works. They fell for Hope & Change and didn’t know the background of this Manchurian Candidate. He was the least vetted President in American History and the media pumped him up as the Messiah. He proved to be an empty suit Progressive Socialist puppet of George Soros and the extreme left wing. His only virtue was a smooth talker who said one thing and did another. If you have 3 degrees and aren’t any smarter than this, you are hopeless.
Yes, perhaps we should have voted for a Texan who’s only accomplishment in life was running a baseball franchise into the ground and having a President for a father?
And if he is such an empty suit, how can he be the worst? Or are empty suits also diabolical masterminds? What exactly has he done, other than Obamacare (which has increased market-based access but done nothing to reduce costs, so we prob agree there)?
Give me a break. I think the reality is that youre upset with the changing of America just like I am, youre just blaming the wrong people. Youth and democrats are not the enemy. There is no enemy, its the effects of globalization and a winner-take-all type capitalist environment.
A shitty face for an enemy to be sure, but hey, ces la vie*.
*That means, “such is life.”
Yes Done that, it is extremely ironic that the young libs who voted for what they thought was Utopia and the fundamental change of America are now finding out it was not so Utopian after all since we have a stagnant economy, bad employment picture and a government that is out of control that keeps doing the same things over and over and hoping for a different result. Socialism has never worked in the history of the world for any country.
Agent, I never did hear back, do you still believe that Reagan is equal to Lincoln? I want to make sure that I give you credit for your response.
Hey Libby, how is that big blemish working out for you? I don’t see Pennsylvania attracting many jobs up there and their unemployment numbers, particularly in Pittsburgh are nothing to bragg about.
Pennsyvanians don’t want people moving in by droves. We’re quite content the way things are.
You can deal with the population explosion, increased traffic, pollution, and waiting in lines for days. Keep all that down in Texas.
Actually Stan, most golfers trying out for the tour get a 50 something you hate so much to fund them in their quest for a card. Even at that, many of the young pros travel together in a van and share expenses trying to make it and eat at McDonald’s. They look for that one good week to make it to the next stop and 9 out of 10 never make it. They don’t blame the experienced players for taking their spot either. I admire their fortitude.
I was using your example as an allegory for the American economy, Agent. Not to opine on the actual golf tour (who cares?). You’re talking about a game, I am talking about an entire generation being left behind, in which case, I admire your logical fortitude.
Actually, one interesting thing about golf and our generational divide is the fact that golf courses are having a harder time keeping their numbers up, mostly because new, younger members cant afford to play or join. Classic Gen-Y: too lazy to get the jobs that let you play golf. Thanks Obama!
“I am talking about an entire generation being left behind”
That’s a little melodramatic, Stan. You haven’t been around long enough to be left behind. Times are tough, that’s for sure. But if you stick around, it will change. It always does.
You are your own worst enemy right now. You still live in the greatest country in the world. Are an educated white male. And have the best years of your life in front of you. It’s a shame you are wasting them being so negative and bitter. You will look back on this 25 years from now and regret it. I guarantee.
Libby, I don’t know if you have an appreciation for the situation that Stan and his peers are in, and I don’t know how many different ways I can explain it.
Millenials were given the following instructions: go to college, borrow if you have to, then get a job and pay the loans back. These instructions was repeated over and over again, from the time we were very young. Of course, there was an implicit promise that these instructions would work.
It basically became a religion. A promise that if you follow the path laid out for you, you will be rewarded later.
Had Stan been this cynical when he was 18, he would not be in this situation now.
It’s not a matter of not being willing to work from the bottom. The problem is that he and his peers are starting from the bottom, in the worse recession since the Great Depression . . . with payments on a 5-6 figure loan.
Somebody has made out like a bandit on this scam. Convincing an entire generation to put a mortgage on their future earnings in exchange for . . . what?
Yes, the future for this group is not written yet. Hopefully for the majority of them, it “works itself out”.
But don’t think their experiences will not stay with them for the rest of their lives. This debt will follow them around for a long time, and will have a lasting impact on their purchasing and lifestyle decisions. They will purchase fewer houses and have fewer kids, and it will be hard on suburban communities for a while.
Well, Youngin, you’re right. I don’t have an appreciation for that because I really don’t have an appreciation for a college degree in general. My sister has 2 masters degrees and she hasn’t worked in over 15 years. Meanwhile, I did not have the luxury of going to college and up until 5 years ago was making six figures.
When I was in a position to hire, I would take bright and eager over college diploma every day of the week.
I don’t know who or why people sold you all this bill of goods, but it certainly wasn’t me.
Youngin, I have a son-in-law who is now a practicing Neurologist who had tremendous debt from loans while in college and medical school. I have yet to hear him blame baby boomers for his debt or rail against the unfair society he lives in. Of course, he picked the right career field and doesn’t have a $9 per hour job.
Agent, sounds like your son-in-law is successful and good on him for picking the right field. Of course he’s not complaining, he is able to make his student loan payments.
Agent, is your son-in-law a democrat? Serious question.
Stan, your naivety is amazing for someone who supposedly has three degrees. The Golf Industry is huge and employ’s hundreds of thousands of people and we aren’t talking about just the PGA Tour. They just passed $2 Billion in charities they support. The formed the First Tee, which is a great program for young people. They teach golf to kids, but the more important things like manners, respect for elders, honesty are more important. It is too bad you weren’t enrolled as a kid and you might be more respectful.
You are right youngin. He did pick the right career field. He didn’t get three degrees to end up with a $9 per hour job. Anyone picking the law field is a fool. They have been churning out too many lawyers for decades and the field is overflowing. We could shut down all the law schools for a decade and still have way too many. 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean is a start.
Law school as a losing proposition is an interesting debate (one I follow closely). You are right, it is a terrible economic decision. That being said, law schools are being sued for publishing fraudulent employment statistics (ie boomers lying about LS outcomes to take student loan money from millennials. Sensing a pattern?).
It is only recently that true outcomes are being published and the result is that enrollment has plummeted. Young people are figuring out the truth.
You show tremendous ignorance Mr. three degrees. Did you not know that most clubs offer junior memberships to young players at a fraction of the cost so they can afford it? There are a lot of semi-private clubs out there who offer reduced green fees so more can play. You seem to know a lot of what you don’t know.
Agent, do you have a degree? If so, what did you pay for it? What about a house? How long ago did you buy it? Did it appreciate?
I am not saying that golf clubs aren’t trying to combat the declining enrollment numbers through junior member subsidies. Maybe they are.
But the fact that they are offering these kinds of reduced greens fees to young clientele further illustrates my point: millennials cant afford to play the game. If they could, why offer reduced rates?
Think it through, Gandalf*.
*This is a pop culture reference to an elderly character from The Lord of the Rings
Jeez, Stan. My husband and I made $150k combined and we couldn’t afford to play golf except at the public course. And then it was only every now and then. You must think folks have money coming out of their ears or something. The more you make, the more you spend. I’m really not much better off now than I was when I was 35. Still have a mortgage, car payment, little disposable income. It’s just a little nicer house and a newer car.
The only difference I see are the student loans. I didn’t have those. But some of that was poor planning on your part. You’ve got to take responsibility for your part in accumulating that debt. I have, in my lifetime, paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt – one payment at a time.
That is fair. But amount of debt matters too. In real 2014 dollars a semester from a public university in the 1970s cost roughly $460.
Today, a semester at a public university is $10,000. So compare $460 with $10k.
So yeah, both of us had debt, and its admirable that you paid it off. But the levels of debt are so different that it is not a fair comparison. Again, I am not diminishing your accomplishment Libby. I am illustrating the different environments.
I wish we had had this conversation before you spent all that time and accumulated all that debt for your degrees. I would surely have tried to talk you down to only one degree.
With that being said, and the amount of debt you currently have, you could and should be making much more than $9 an hour. At least double that. Are there any insurance companies in your area? You’ve got to be where the jobs are, Stan. If there aren’t any in your area, you’ll have to move. It could be the best thing that ever happened to you. It worked for me. Several times.
I’ve worked at agencies where entry level account assistant positions start at $26k and the ability to shine and move up quickly is certainly there.
Stan, you bet I am upset with the changing of America to a quasi Socialist society which is far removed from what our founding fathers envisioned. I guess you think the Constitutional Republic we had was a bad idea. If so, perhaps you should go job hunting in Cuba or Venezuela. They have a doctrine in those countries which should suit you just fine. $9 per hour is a great wage there. You could be a supervisor in the sugar cane fields and have a princely dinner of rice and beans every day. By the way, I blame Obama, all Democrats in Congress and all RINO’s who have gone along to get along. They all share blame and hopefully after the mid terms this year, we can start off with new leaders who will right the ship because what we have now is the Titanic and it is not for long.
I am tempted to tell you that there is now way for you to know what the framers of the constitution intended, or that a diverse body can never truly intend anything since all parties are unequal, but then again, you’re old enough to have probably known them personally.
However, it doesnt really matter what you think at this point. The tide has turned and the republican party cannot win national elections anymore, mostly because of people like you. Not only did you manage to destroy the country, destroy the surplus, eradicate any sort of social safety net, eliminate affordable education, housing, and healthcare, but you also ruined your own party!
So in that respect, thanks playa!
Agent, what is your twitter handle? I would like to follow you.
And now you have the distinction of insulting everyone on this forum for trying to help you understand the real world. You have received all kinds of good advice on what to do with your career and it sailed right over your head into oblivion.
That is not true. I did get some good advice on here, the JAG / Military suggestion was helpful. I also feel like I had a moment (fleeting, but still real) with Libby.
But the comparison of Reagan to Lincoln? Well not so much.
Enjoy your $9 per hour job and try not to be too surprised that you aren’t advanced by your employer.
Wow…is it possible that we’ve finally found some common ground between Agent, FFA, Libby, myself, youngin’ and everyone else who has tried to help our pal Stan? Political views aside, we’ve all tried to give this kid some advice only to be insulted and called “old” (and I’m only 37 3/4, dammit) because no matter what we suggest, “that won’t work.” See, it’s possible to all agree on something here!!!
I wish everyone the absolute best weekend, and Stan, I do hope things work out for you. As many of us have said, you are your own worst enemy right now. For all the time you’re playing the “woe is me, it’s not fair, what’s the point” games, there’s someone taking a job that may have been yours.
Hard to believe, I know. Solidarity between me and Agent? Let me check hell for some ice cubes! LOL!!!
Ralph, yes it is easy for us professionals to band together even if we have differing political views when we have a troubled young man who is blaming anyone over 50 for his troubles. I am a Baby Boomer who not once blamed my Greatest Generation Dad for my struggles when I was young. He did instill a very strong work ethic in me. He was just a common working man and never had two nickels to rub together, but we never starved and he didn’t blame older people for screwing it up for him and he lived through the Great Depression which was many times worse than what we have had in recent years. I loved and admired him and vowed to make him proud of me.
The ice cubes melt fast where you are looking Libby so enjoy the solidarity while you can. I am sure there will be another Obamacare horror story on soon that we can go after each other on.
LOL!! It can’t come fast enough, Agent. All this huggy, kissy with you is making me uncomfortable!!
Well, I do give you some kudos on trying to reason with the incorrigible Stan. He is still spewing his venom and hasn’t learned a thing. If his posts cease suddenly we will know his employer caught him blogging instead of doing his $9 per hour job.
What would you blame your dad for? A growing economy?
Look, you guys have actually been pretty reasonable all things considered. And I do appreciate the well wishes. But the broader argument really isn’t about me (there will always be outliers. Some lazy and cynical people get lucky; some good, hard working people end up with nothing).
My broader point is that today’s kids are no different than any other generation, be it you, your parents, your kids, your grandparents, whatever. What is different is the economy. Reasonable minds can debate the cause of this change for hours, but the fact remains that America no longer produces enough jobs to sustain a growing middle class. This is true of all ages but, as a group, the young are suffering particularly hard because of their lack of experience.
And under this umbrella of a changing economic environment, a change that has not been kind to 99% of us, I push back on the idea that young people are somehow lazier or more entitled than generations past. We’re not. No more than you’re more out of touch than generations past.
And the Govt at any level has done nothing to bring our jobs back home… Blame prior admins for NAFTA, European trade & China Trade Agreement. Blame the current powers that be for not fixing it.
Hi FFA, you have been somewhat quiet in this forum up until now. If you have been reading many of these posts, you will be struck like I am about misplaced blame on Baby Bookers with little blame assigned to a political theory called Progressive Socialism which the libs voted for twice. They are screaming about the job market not providing opportunity after the Democrats rammed Obamacare down out throat which is the biggest job killer ever passed. They wanted it so now they have to live with it and they should stop screaming about the lack of job opportunities or the reaction of employers to these disastrous policies.
Been on the Appt Trail. got about $250,000 premiums quoted across three LOB’s on the table… Libby, I have not figured the commmis yet as it spans all lines. Suffice it to say, my big one is well over the 10% average skewing the average commis more to the 15% side is not bigger. Just in the past two days…
What does anyone know about Kemper???
They don’t know what they want to be when they grow up. Kemper went insolvent in 2003 and are now struggling back writing personal lines and commercial auto. I don’t think they write much more than that. You can do better.
FFA, do you have State Auto? Home office is Ohio. They have been a pretty good market for us, particularly in the past year for both Commercial and Personal Lines and their technology is good as well.
FFA, we have tried to warn the libs on this forum for the past 4 years what was coming and they kept saying we were dumb, incorrect on every post. When the chickens came home to roost, they are now upset that the country is in this shape and Stan thinks the system is rigged against him. They cannot defense the indefensible and it is driving them crazy. The Utopia of Progressivism does not exist. What a surprise to them! A country cannot spend a quarter more than it takes in every year for years and borrow $.40 of every dollar and be a vibrant economy and provide opportunity for jobs and expect everything to work.
That spending that you’re referencing is primarily serving your age-group through entitlements, Agent. If you want to spend less government money, I am all for it. How about cutting your own hair for a change, instead of picking the pockets of the poor?
While I understand your point, what you fail to realize is that our generation is the first generation to have paid into the system for our entire working careers. We have been told, right or wrong, that we could depend on this money when we retire.
Just as you say you were sold a bill of goods about education, we feel the same way about social security and medicare. We are not too disimilar in our situations. It wasn’t long ago that I heard social security would go bust 2 years before I hit 65. That sure was a kick in the teeth. But life goes on and you put one foot in front of the other and go about your business. That’s the only option you have.
I am not saying that you shouldn’t get SS. You should. The elderly should because we, as a society, have decided to take care of the infirm.
What I AM saying is that government is there to help. And you are no more a taker for using SS than anyone else. Whether or not you paid into it is irrelevant. Government exists to serve its citizens, not small business or whatever else Agent thinks.
I certainly hope I am not infirm when I finally get to retire and draw my social security! That would suck! LOL!!
I am not of the opinion that young people are “takers.” That’s Agent’s stance. There are takers in this world, to be sure, but I do not like to stereotype people. I beleive we should have some restraints on welfare (drug testing, job hunting, education, etc.) but do not begrudge giving someone a hand up. Not a hand out.
“America no longer produces enough jobs to sustain a growing middle class.” That is a correct statement. The middle class is shrinking and will disappear soon. There will be the “haves” and the “have nots”. I don’t blame that on a generation as much as a flawed morality. Wealth has become an insatiable drug for many in this country. The days of being content with a small home, 2-1/2 kids, and 2 cars in the driveway are going by the wayside. Now it’s luxury cars, diamonds, yachts, and several homes that people aspire to. It’s sickening.
Agent, you mentioned Texas. Did you know that GOP states are the most dependent on the government? It’s the blue states that you seem to despise that end up paying the bills. How do you account for this? Texas ranks 31st on this list. Perhaps you should stop being such a moocher?
I posted this twice since this thread is getting long and I don’t want Agent to strain his eyes.
Stan, did you know that Texas has created more jobs than all the Blue States combined over several years. I laughed the other day when Rick Perry challenged Cuomo from NY to debate job creation. Cuomo wants none of that debate. Why am I not surprised? Don’t bother to quote Huffington Post on any evidence on anything. We know how they line up. Perhaps you should apply for a job there. They may put you on for $10 per hour.
Texas does is decent at creating jobs, certainly better than the midwest. Little of that is due to the “go getter” attitude of Texans themselves, rather its due to an abundance of petroleum based natural resources and land. Here’s another great article about Texas’ remarkable ability to create, and then find a way to lose, wars:
You want to know where the real job creation is taking place today? The thought-based job creation based on innovation? San Francisco, probably the most liberal city on the continent. The best comparison for Texas is Austin, the liberal heart of the Lonestar State.
And since you didn’t like the Huffington Post source, here is the same fact from Business Insider:
Face it, Red states are hypocrites. You complain about moochers through one side of your mouth, then bleed the blue states dry with the other.
Stan, if you think California is the place to be and you can get a good job there, what are you waiting for? Load up your clunker and get on out there. You will enjoy that crowd since they think like you do. Better get a job worth more than $9 per hour since their cost of living is so high and the state has an additional 13.3% State Income Tax.
Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend moving to Cali without a firm job offer. It’s very expensive. My eldest moved to Austin last fall and loves it there. (he’s lived in Oregon, California, Illinois, Idaho, and Kentucky)
You might need TWO firm job offers! LOL!! All my family is in either Colorado or California. Love them both!
Libby, I do agree with you that the Middle Class is now becoming the lower middle class. They have been put upon by corrupt politicians passing very bad legislation that stunts growth, increases the cost of everything we buy, runs off good jobs and the granddaddy of all, Obamacare. What a terrible burden people have now with unaffordable premiums, higher deductibles, more out of pocket expense and less access to doctors & hospitals. When you say wealth is an insatiable drug for many in this country, how many? Less than 1% of the population have luxury cars, yachts, several homes. That still leaves 300 million out there that are struggling to get by and be successful. Put the blame where it should be. We have the worst government in history and they are not creating the conditions for improvement in this economy. They are only making it worse for all of us.
This is ridiculous. Agent, do you want to know why Obamacare isnt working? It is because it’s not socialist enough. Healthcare is more akin to electricity and water, ie a utility. Ill explain why: zero bargaining power. We saw this with Enron (another shining example of Texas entrepreneurialism) and the de-regulated California energy market.
What would you pay for electricity and heat when it is cold? As much as it takes. What would you pay for chemo if you had cancer? All of your money. You don’t have a choice. Capitalism works well when there are two things: choice and information.
With healthcare, you have neither. You’re compelled to act because if you dont you die. And you have to see a specialist because, by definition, he knows more than you do.
Look at Canada. They have a growing middle class (article below), socialized medicine that their citizens love, and they have never had a financial collapse. Tell me how this is a poor outcome.
Stan, its not working because it was poorly conceived and sold to the American People on a pile of lies by oBama himself. Web site was no where near up to speed when roll out took place. People were forced to change doctors, spend hours and hours of their time trying to navigate the system.
Its lack of Trot reform is the biggest reason it is domed. Its reliance on the tax payer to bail this mess out is another reason its doomed.
Lack of tort reform is an issue, but its small compared to the elephant in the room: entitlement reform.
“poorly conceieved and sold as a pile of lies” This doesnt mean anything. I just told you what is wrong with the program: its not socialist enough. Single payer is the solution to healthcare, not the free market.
And seriously, youre blaming a website for failing to solve an incredibly complex problem? Plus, for the record, the website has been fixed with record enrollment.
No Stan, I am not blaming the problems on the Web Site.
Tort reform is a major issue in any Insurance Reform. Have u seen Med Mal Rates? 6 years ago, I quoted an OBGYN fresh out of Med School. $75,000 before she even saw one patient. Do you know Med Mal is driven by Law Suites?
You can dismiss the lies all you want. I believe in honesty. You want to live in a Socialist Society, move there. Keep crying Poor Me. See where it gets you.
FFA, If you are thinking about appointing with Kemper, my advice is to beware. They are busy running off business in our shop with their extremely narrow focus, rate increases and deductible increases on property. Recently, they did a little combining with Kemper Specialty which was primarily a BAP market and I haven’t seen any recent bulletins on what they are going to do with it. We have not been encouraged by anything they have done in the past 4 years
Libby this post reminded me of a paradox that I find in liberal thinking ( no accusing you per say for using this paradox just rather you passed by it enough for me to be reminded of it).
You mentioned that wealth has become a insatiable drug due to flawed morality which I am to understand is a commonly held very among the liberals/progressives (whatever those labels really mean but I digress). The ironic/paradoxical association is that liberal and progressives in the economical field base a very large amount of their economic policy on a theory called “the wealth effect” which is basically saying that a rise in wealth through increased assets prices (via the assets purchase program aka QE) correlates directly with an increase in consumption which spurs economic growth. Therefore wealth (sometimes used interchangeably with “profit”) is bad for society on the one hand but good at the same time good for the economy on the other. It would appear that one would have to choose the lesser evil, or perhaps the greater good depending on your philosophical leaning.
Are you comparing quantitative easing to amassing an immense personal fortune that you will never be able to spend in your lifetime? And doing it on the backs of those less fortunate than yourself? And not using any of it to further the common good, but only to satisfy your hunger for more? It’s a disease, man.
There is no quantitative easing when an individual gobbles up assets for their own personal worth because they are buying them for pennies on the dollar. This actually exacerbates the problems that allowed them to be able to gobble them up in the first place. They just sit on them. Did the seller obtain some funds? Yes. But not enough to stimulate the economy. If the assets were bought at a fair market price, it would be a different story.
I know I’m not smart enough to understand the intricacies of the money game (because that’s what it is). I just know that greed is abundant in this country. Have you ever been to the Claim Jumper restaurant? Their claim to fame is that one entree is enough to feed a family of 4. I got a beef dish there and is was an entire roast! That’s just decadent and kinda gross.
Hey Free, Libby is only parroting the man she voted for twice. Remember him saying – At a certain point, you have made enough and you need to share with those less fortunate ie, more taxation so he can spend it so wisely on his gazillion worthless government programs. In the vernacular, it is called “Spreading the Wealth” which is a precursor to Communism. Everyone can be equally poor.
I am comparing the goal of QE, which is wealth, to wealth.
Wealth generation from QE benefits the first receivers of new money which happen to be mostly the 1%ers, the banks, and government/government sponsored entities. The goal of QE is derived from the wealth effect theory which is to raise wealth through high asset prices. What is never considered is that this rise in wealth through asset prices is not happening to all at the same time at the same level. Therefore first receivers have the advantage of more wealth compared to everyone else since prices have not been able to catch up to the new money printed since they haven’t circulated yet. And not surprisingly the same people amassing large quantities of wealth, as you say, “off the backs of those less fortunate” are a large portion of the first receivers of this wealth benefiting first and most from QE. Hence the paradox of supporting QE which benefits societies “elite”/well connected. So I think the comparison holds value.
Off the back of those less fortunate indeed. I wish I was a government linked entity that received new wealth first at every one else’s expense.
The disease is government control and power over the people and the economy.
I guess you are saying QE is a liberal/democrat supported theorum. That doesn’t mean I approve of it. I don’t. There are many liberal policies that I do not approve of. That’s the main reason I bristle when called Liberal, Progressive, Socialist, etc.
And Agent, I don’t parrot anyone. I have a brain that works just fine on it’s own. I am not for “taking from the rich to give to the poor.” I’m just sick of constantly having to give to the rich in the first place. They are robbing middle America blind and you fully support their agenda. You are the parrot, my friend. You’ve got the rose-colored glasses, not me.
Agent, do you make over $1mm a year? If the answer is no, then I don’t believe that your tax burden should increase. If yes, then yes it should go up on income over $1mm. If this makes you “equally poor” well then I think you should work on your definition of poor.
I understand your point Libby, and I attempted to display that(rather poorly I must admit) when saying that you didn’t fall into that logic paradox per say just reminded me of it and I used that as a platform to jump to my talking point. Which I usually try to avoid jumping to talking points like that for this very reason as it creates assumptions and ill advised implications. But I was too tempted.
QE is an economic model that is promoted from those that are called liberal/prog/”the left” but by no means is it only them. A lot of repubs/conservatives/”the right” support the feds QE as well they just don’t really fall into the paradox I described.
Wake up Stan, the alarm has been ringing for 6 years now. Why is America not creating enough jobs? Look at the root causes. Do you think employers just looked up one day and said you know what, I don’t think we want to expand our business anymore and instead of hiring, we will stop hiring and in fact just start laying people off. Just one example: A Medical Device Manufacturer in Indiana a few years back wanted to build a new plant. After Obama passed Obamacare with the new 3.8% Medical Device tax, they decided not to build that plant and it cost around 200 new jobs. Are you getting the picture yet?
No, but employers did say “wow, you know what, through technology and cost-cutting, I have reduced my labor force and increased productivity. Why hire someone else?”
No one hires someone because they want to, they do it out of necessity. And because of the oversupply of labor and the gains in technology, your costs of human capital have gone way down. Meaning profits are up and wages are down.
Stan, you sound a lot like Obama when he said banks don’t hire anymore because they have ATM’s. Why do they continue to open branches on every street corner? They are as numerous as convenience stores here. They do not have robots doing transactions either.
Are you serious? Opening branches != hiring people. And as it happens, I have lots of friends from undergrad who work for chase as tellers. They make about $31k and have been doing the job for 4 years. I know of one that got promoted. She makes $40k I believe.
And, yes, Agent, they do have robots doing transactions. They are called ATMs. You referenced them in your own post. At the branch near where I live, they employ two tellers and have four ATMs.
Businesses expand by leveraging capital, that means getting the biggest bang for your buck. Unfortunately for human beings, that capital is often better spent on technology than labor. Great news for the purveyors of capital, not so great news for labor.
I mean look at your own business, do you hire more people than you need? Or do you look to expand your profitability in the best way that you can? Why hire an extra person if you can get a machine to do it?
So true. Banks are making money hand over fist by making the customers do all the work! And insurance tries to do the same thing. On-line quoting. Certificate issuance on-line. EFT payments. Automatic renewals. All things people used to take care of that are now handled by computers. That, combined with shipping processes (policy checking, certificates, ID cards, etc.) overseas and we are “streamlining” ourselves out of a job.
Three degrees and you still don’t know anything. You should have invested in Computer Programming or Technology and you would have a job forever and at more than $9 per hour.
“You still don’t know anything.”
Respond to the post.
And for the record, even computer programming is changing with the ability to outsource to Asian / Indian nations. This is the new world.
By the way Agent, for someone who is so quick to take offense at insults (so much so that you refuse to answer questions) you sure are quick to fire off your own. More hypocrisy. Shocking.
Agent puts his hands over his ears and sings when he doesn’t want to hear or respond to a question. It’s his usual M.O. You’ll get used to it.
You two finding common ground dont surprise me. I knew it was a matter of time and in this case – 4 years ish??? Seems to be a trait of our generation – keep plugging away till something give. Maybe Congress and the pres will get something worked out after all…
Hey Free, QE is just another scheme which hastens disaster in an economy. Printing money 24/7 brought down the Wiemar Republic in Germany after WW1 when inflation soared the never before seen heights. In recent times, check our Zimbabwe. Their currency is worth nothing. By the way, have you checked your grocery prices, gasoline prices and other commodities lately. The government would like you to believe we don’t have inflation in this country and they conveniently leave out the things that affect peoples pocketbook every day of the week.
Thanks for the input on Kemper. State Auto is saturated in my area. How about Mercury? Auto Owners?
We have talked to Mercury and even did some test quotes and they were nothing to write home about so why appoint if they don’t have anything different than what we had already? I don’t know anything about Auto Owners. They are certainly not in our area and we never run into them
While we are talking companies, there was a story on IJ Mergers and Moves about State Farm. The CEO said they were not going to move from Bloomington since that was there hub. We aren’t supposed to notice their big expansion to Phoenix, Dallas & Atlanta. The article said they had 15,000 employees in Bloomington and was the city’s biggest employer. I don’t doubt that if there are really that many left there. I also remember several football owners saying they had complete confidence in the coach and then fire them after the next loss.
According to someone I know that works there, only 4 office units remain occupied.
So FFA, are you saying the remaining 4 office units have 15,000 employees or is the CEO lying to everyone? Apparently, in Illinois, lying is an art form.
I am not sure if anyone thinks they rented all that office space to leave it empty. My brother tells me its skeleton crew in Home Office. St Farm Museum has been reduced to bare bones too.
So FFA, maybe the CEO is subbing out a bunch of services and the tenants are occupying the offices. Other companies are subbing out things like inspections, claims, billing services etc. Call one up sometime and you get India and someone you can’t understand.
Thus going full circle to prove Stan’s point, Agent. Outsourcing. It’s one of the big reasons there are no American jobs for the millenials coming out of college.
Agent, do you have a degree? Is it in STEM / Business? Did you finance it yourself? I am curious if a similarly situated 29 year old Agent would succeed in 2014, or if perhaps some things went right for you along the way, things like an expanding economy, affordable housing and education.
BTW, for what its worth, I do not espouse the value of a college degree for its own sake. I do not think I could do a better job than someone without. Rather, I ask because it is necessary as a credential for entry level jobs today. Lots of people have hustle, but the door will be closed without a BA in 2014.
If you didn’t have one 30 years ago, well you could do OK (as it looks like you have). Today, what worked for you, wouldn’t work for your great great great great grandson.
If you can’t make a statement without insulting me, then I will not provide any info to you to help. I think one of your degrees must have been in the art of the insult. You are a very disagreeable person and you are ill suited to this business so take Libby’s advice and be an electrician.
OK, I am sorry you’re very wise and very smart and I am just an young idiot.
Answer the question.
Stan, why don’t you go live in Mexico? Your $9.00 an hour job would make you a 1%er there.
A tempting proposition, but it seems like most of the Mexicans are trying pretty hard to get here (probably to be insurance agents, much to Agent’s pleasure, I would imagine).
It’s too hot. Why can’t Alaska or Canada be inexpensive?
Agent, did you give up?
Parting shot Stan. Go west to California young man. They may like you there. You have not made much headway with us 50+ agents who keep working and denying you your opportunity.
Its more likely he tending to his sick wife.
Hardly. He’s just ignoring him. Usual Agent response. When the going gets tough, Agent gets going.
Through this whole forum, Stan has constantly beat the “Poor Me” drum. Nuff Said?
No, I am beating the “millenials are just as hard working as boomers, they are just growing up in a different, and much more challenging, economic environment” drum.
There is a distinction.
I don’t see any insult in Stan’s post. Why not answer his question? Agent, even you can’t deny that things are different today than when you were coming up. Can’t you even try to see things from his perspective? It’s called empathy and the last time I checked, it’s essential for being a good salesman.
I see your only comment is a thumbs-down. Typical.
Actually Libby, I was a Millenial during the Carter years and remember being very depressed about my future prospects about getting ahead, facing debts, providing for my young family etc. It was a very bad time for America. Thank goodness Carter was a one termer and we didn’t have 8 years of bad leadership to put up with before the country was turned around and things looked up again for young people.
Agent, do you believe that the country was on the right track under Bush, when we had a republican President and super majorities in both houses?
I was, as well. My first election was 1976 and I voted for Ford. And then Reagan. That was when I was a Republican.
I don’t remember being depressed about my future prospects. Quite the opposite. I was excited to be starting my life as an adult (wish I hadn’t rushed it so much now.) Don’t get me wrong, I struggled financially. But I don’t remember it getting me down. It’s just what you did and you knew things would eventually get better. At least that’s how I remember it.
Stan, Apparently your revisionist history books didn’t tell you we had a recession the last few years of the Clinton Administration and before we could recover from that, 9 months into the Bush Presidency, we were attacked by Bin Laden with 3,000+ dead and forcing us to respond in kind. By the way, Liberals ascended to power in the House & Senate in 2007 and their spending policies, lack of oversight on Fannie & Freddie brought on the sub prime mess. This country has been off track ever since and electing Obama twice is the best example of a country being off track. Every Progressive solution makes things worse, adds to the tremendous debt and divides the country.
That is not what I asked you. I asked if you thought that we, as a country, were on the right track under Bush.
Two unfunded wars, medicare Part D, tax cuts, military expansion: those things add to the debt. All under your president.
Grow up, Agent. Open your eyes.
Libby, sounds like we are the same age. We didn’t have much money, not much in job prospects, but we had jobs, we paid our bills, worked our way up and we were happy. We struggled, but bought what we could afford. If we couldn’t afford it, and it wasn’t an absolute necessity, we did without. No massive credit bills. We out a few bucks away for a rainy day. Inflation was rampant, but we knew it would get better. For today’s young people, I am not as optimistic as I was in my youth. That makes me sad.
Yes, they do seem more jaded than we were. I’m not convinced all is lost in this country just yet. I’m excited for upcoming elections to see which way the winds will blow. Fingers crossed!
Hopefully, Libby, it will be the winds of change. hopefully all the incumbents that let this thing go to where we are today will be gone.
I’ll do my part. Will you do yours?
Libby, if you were not depressed about the economy during Carter, you were not trying to buy a home, car or any other durable goods or paying your normal bills. There was not much positive going on in those days, kind of like what we have going on in this country currently.
No, I wasn’t trying to buy a home. I was 17.
Oops! 18. Still trying to shave off a few years!
As long as we are talking about super majorities, Obama came in with super majorities in both houses and thought he could do whatever he wanted. The big mistake was Obamacare when the economy needed to be attended to. He ignored the economy to pass his Socialist agenda and was rewarded with a shellacking in the 2010 mid terms and Pelosi lost her Speakership. The shellacking in 10 will be mild by comparison in 14.
If you’re right, then the Republicans can come in and do whatever they want to do. Let’s see how fast the economy recovers with your guys at the helm. If they can do, I’ll support them 100%.
You know why the Cubs dont have a web site???
They cant put three w’s together.
Recently, it was take your kid to work day. That is how we ended up with Bush JR.
Thanks for the input on the other two carriers…
Funny FFA. The Cubs have had some of the most loyal fans ever and they just cannot get over the hump.
Hey FFA. I told you I would give you a report on my wife’s Spine Stimulator. She is doing much better three weeks after having it turned on. Her back pain is at least 50% better and when it is tweaked a little more in a few weeks, we are expecting continuing improvement. I hope your wife is doing better now with her pain issues.
Thanks agent. My wife hits the good days, thinks she 30 again over does the heck out of it and then suffers through it for a week. Then the cycle starts all over again.
Hey FFA, The libs can say whatever they want about Perry, but he has succeeded in getting Toyota to move their USA headquarters from California to the DFW Metroplex to the tune of 4,000 jobs. This comes on the heels of State Farm expanding their operation to the Metroplex as well. There is something Texas is doing to lure these companies to move here. Perhaps it is the much better work environment and no State Income Tax. Nissan moved to Tennessee years ago from California. California can thank their liberal legislature for imposing such high taxes and regulation and running these companies off.
Yes, Texas, the greatest state in the Union. The only state to have likely executed an innocent man.
I’m sure it’s not just one…
So FFA, I post about Texas landing Toyota and the best Stan can do is post that Texas may have executed an innocent man. That may have happened to a few, but there have been many who have been proven innocent with DNA test and released. I am not going to apologize for Capital punishment. There have been many killers who have done horrible things and they needed to get the needle and did. Obama has let many very bad people out of prison and now they are running the streets ready to do more horrible things. Which is worse for society?
“Which is worse for society?” Seriously??? Executing innocent people is worse for society you moron.
And since when has Obama been in charge of who’s let out of prison? He’s not the parole board or the warden.
Really, Agent. You are beyond ridiculous.
Agent, I posted an article the other day (from two sources mind you) that covered Texas’ proclivity towards taking more federal money than it returns.
In other words, Texas, as a whole, is a taker state! Why cant you Texans stop mooching off the productivity of California and NY?
Agent, here are some of your brethren discussing the Tea Party. The comments in here are fascinating (rest easy, I am not participating in the discussion, so no need to fear getting your feelings hurt again).
This is on a HEAVILY conservative blog, by the way.
I’m confused. Everyone says that my generation feels entitled. Yet we are emcouraged to get an education to be eligible for those higher level jobs. The more the older generations complain about our so called sense of entitlement, the more my generation won’t want to be as educated becuase it just isn’t worth spending thousands of dollars and 4-8 years in school for an entry level pencil pushing position. I understand the value of hard work and I don’t expect a CEO position straight out of college but a college education should mean I am more valuable as an employee than someone without. Work ethic cannot be taught in school, it should be taught at home. With both a college education and strong work ethic, we should be invaluable to prospective employees.
You are eligible for those higher level jobs. And you are invaluable to prospective employers. There just are that many prospective employers out there. Unless you live in India, China or Pakistan where they can pay you a fraction of what you’re worth in the U.S. Corporate greed. Read my lips.
Your right youngin. That is a problem with my generation always wanting to do everything for the kids so they can be kids. My step daughter – your generation – once came to me and told me she was getting a cell phone on my account “because it will be cheaper”. Cheaper for her and then I have to chase her around for the money. She statement here – she told me – not asked. Told. What she hasnt figured out – with three kids- laundry is not done till its put away.
You may be the exception to the rule. I hope things work out well for you. Roll up your sleves.
FFA – why didn’t you TELL her “No”???
Because I told her HELL NO. NO WAY. NO HOW. END OF CONVERSATION. NO IFS AND OR BUTS ABOUT IT. And by the way, dont tell your mom to “work on me”.
Good for you!
With me, People get what they deserve not what they think they are entitled to.
Yes Youngin, you are confused.
It’s good that you have a college degree and have a strong work ethic. But that’s not enough to get you that “higher level job” you think you’re entitled to. And it never has been!
New college graduates are ready for entry level employment and no more. It takes time to learn the business before you’re ready for any level of management. This was true in the 70′s when I graduated and it’s true today.
If you want that higher level position, take that entry level position, do a great job and become more educated about the industry. Talk to your boss about what you still need to learn to be able to handle that next level of responsibility. Then, when the opportunity presents itself, you’ll be ready.
That’s how it works today and that’s how it has always worked.
JS, you must be new. Youngin’ has been lamenting the dearth of entry level jobs period, much less entry level jobs with opportunity for advancement.
No one is saying young people should have the C-Suite right away. What they are arguing is that, to use your words, “when the opportunity presents itself” will never happen for a significant number of people in today’s economic environment.
Stan, it’s nice that you agree that young people shouldn’t have the C-Suite right away. My point is that even lower level management jobs require experience.
You also seem to feel that in other economic times, everyone gets the opportunity to move ahead. This isn’t true. There are always a lot more nonmanagement employees than managers. Not every company has the growth needed to promote more people. There are many reasons your current job may not offer advanceemnt
You need to manage your own career. Look at your skill set and the opportunities available within your own company and elsewhere within your industry.
There are opportunities out there, maybe not as many as we would like, but they are there. The first job you take out of college probably won’t give you everything you want, but it will give you a start. From there, it’s up to you.
Good one FFA. Unfortunately, the young people have been told they are “entitled” from a young age and are ill prepared for the real world. Like you said, the NIU graduates think they are entitled to a $60,000 starting salary when they have no experience and just have a degree. You and I didn’t think we were entitled when we were a Millenial. Poor Stan is not qualified to flip burgers at McDonalds with his three degrees, but it must be the fault of the 50+ crowd for holding him back.
No it is the fault of globalization and the price gouging of the young by the old. Careful, Old Man, the future is coming for you too. And if there is one thing about the market, it does’t care about youth or experience. It cares about the cheapest way to get a job done, which Americans are finding out is pretty cheap.
Stan, you are truly not suited to the Insurance business since you believe the cheapest is the best. Go to work for GEICO if you really believe that. Insurance is about trust and getting value for the premium dollar and providing service in case of a claim. Cutting corners to get a price will bite you in the butt with E&O claims.
That’s not what he said at all, Agent.
Agent, no one can dispute the fact that Texas is taking jobs by the thousands from other states. Your Gov is getting it done. Perrys recruiting efforts have proven to not be a waste of time. Tax Payer money well spent.
Our Gov on the other hand, is running around proposing the “Temp Tax Hike” be permanent. Some are pushing a progressive tax. Many are predicting that would be the death of the middle class as well as high end earners leaving the state. What a knucklehead…
FFA, despite what incorrigible Stan and Libby the liberal say, Texas is proving to be the promised land for many companies and they seem to be eager to abandon the Blue States with their high taxes and over regulation. It is easy to make that business decision. I am sure Plano, Tx.(Dallas suburb) will make them feel very welcome. Can you just imagine all the other jobs that will be created with services, restaurants, stores? My guess is that about half of the California people will relocate and half will be hired in Texas for this operation. Californians will just sit there on their hands and wonder where all their good jobs went and blame it on Bush. By the way, the last time I checked, Cuomo still hasn’t agreed to debate Perry on job creation. I wonder why that is.
California has the 3rd largest economy in the world, Agent. And the highest regulatory burdens. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
At the rate they are going Stan, not for long. Those high regulatory burdens are taking their toll along with extreme taxation. Businesses are fleeing the state in droves in favor of more friendly climes.
FFA, just this morning, I had a young Millenial company rep in my office extolling the virtues of his company and what they will write for us. He had replaced the boomer rep we had for some time so there are positions for young people within the Industry. Of course, he had to be trained and had been with the company about three years, first in underwriting and then in Marketing. He also didn’t have 3 degrees and expecting to step right in to a boomers shoes. He paid his dues, learned the business and is on track to advance and makes much more than $9 per hour.
This is interesting to me. Define “much more than $9 an hour.”
Also, is he doing the same job as the boomer he replaced? If so, is he being paid the same wage? Or is the company paying a person to do the same work for less money?
Yes, he is doing the same job as the one he replaced. We didn’t discuss how much he makes, but my guess is a little less than the experienced boomer and they do furnish him with a company car to travel the territory. He is making enough to support himself and buy a house in the DFW area. When he has more experience, I am sure they will step him up as time goes by. He didn’t expect to start at the top.
Stan, they are paid an over ride. So, yes, assuming no shrink in policy and same territory boundries, he should be making exactly the same. At least that s how it works in IL.
FFA, I seem to remember website Ron saying it was a waste of taxpayer resources for a Governor to fly around the US recruiting businesses to come to Texas. I wonder why Quinn is not flying around the country to entice businesses to come to Illinois. I am sure he has a great message to tell. Perhaps he could give businesses a one year moratorium for taxation before they get the regular bill. In several cities including my own, they have Economic Development Districts to bring business in, have ready made business parks, give the employers incentives to hire etc. It seems to work pretty good.
Well Agent, if its Quinn, it is a waste. Quinn was on the news last night yapping about making the temp increase in the income tax permanent. Great election year fodder 6 months before the liberation of IL takes place…. unless Chicago wants more of the same….
Rahm seems to be letting the murder rate get out of hand after the strides he had been bragging about earlier in the year.
FFA, Progressives have no idea about anything except how to impose more taxes and spending their state or country into oblivion. There is an old saying – you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. California is running business off right and left and so is Illinois. At some point, you would think a light bulb would light up over their head, but the ideology is so strong, they don’t get it. Prosperity only comes if business is strong and incentives are given to employers to hire.
Agent, for all that complaining about California, perhaps you care to respond to the two articles I showed you that demonstrate Texas is a net-taker and California is a net-maker in re Federal Tax revenues?
It appears that California is feeding Texas, yet you seem to be doing an awful lot of hand biting. Perhaps you could further improve Lone Star society by executing a few more innocent men?
I saw where Chicago had 45 shootings last weekend? Is that about right FFA? Even in a big city, that is a lot.
That is a lot of shootings. Agent, with all your concern, you sound like a believer in gun control.
I dont know the exact total agent. News dont report gang on gang violence, only innocents being killed. A 14 yr old girl was reported this AM. Did nt catch the whole story.
There you go again with the poor reading comprehension. I did not say it was a waste. All I asked was if there was a cost-benefit analysis done to quantify if his trips on the TX taxpayers’ dime were worth it. You know, accountability.
Ron, We knew what you meant then and what you mean now. Do you think Obama does a cost benefit analysis every time he cranks up AF1 to go on his gazillion trips. That could be a new cottage industry just doing a cost benefit analysis for every single trip. At least Perry is in search of jobs and making Texas a jobs leader. We are still waiting for your fearless leader Cuomo to accept the debate with Perry about job creation.
Thank you for supporting my position by equating Governor Perry’s wasting of TX taxpayer money to President Obama’s wasting of US taxpayer dollars. They will both say they are travelling to benefit their constiuents, but neither is really held accountable to show it was worth the money spent.
Governor Cuomo knows that debating with a Texan, as I have learned with you, is a waste of time because neither Governor Perry nor you are smart enough to understand nuanced points and will take a small sample of what someone says, take it out of context, and then attack. Either that or spin it until the original point is no longer being discussed.
Texas is not the jobs leader. They are currently 6th in the nation for private industry job growth. They are second in total jobs, just behind…wait for it…CALIFORNIA. NY is 4th in total jobs created in the past year.
Please tell us again how all of the jobs are leaving CA for TX.
To recap what we have read in this thread so far from Agent:
1) Reagan was a better president than Lincoln
2) Texas is better than California despite the fact that it takes more money from the Feds than it gives (mooching, I believe is the term).
3) Spending doesnt matter if its for wars, medicare part D, or tax cuts for the rich, only if its to provide a MARKETPLACE for private insurance carriers.
4) Executing innocent people is better for society than letting people out of prison?
5) You dont have to answer questions if someone hurts your feelings.
Actually Ron, Cuomo knows he cannot win that debate since he is nothing more than a true believer in Progressive policies.
Actually uninformed Stan, I believe in conceal and carry. It is the “thugs/gangs/ that are doing all the shooting up there in Chicago. FFA will tell you that since he is from there. How is that gun free zone working out for you? If people are defenseless against thugs and gangs, they will continue to get slaughtered. The criminals realize they have nothing to fear from the citizens so they will keep doing it.
Gun control might be an issue that we agree on. While it is simplistic to blame gun violence on “thugs and gangs,” I do agree that the solution is not an outright ban. Still, let us not let middle ground get in the way of our debate.
Hey FFA. How about another great story about the wonderful Healthcare.gov, your favorite website? Recently, the government hired Accenture to fix the flaws and to get the back end of it to accept payments etc. The report I saw today is it will cost an additional $121 million for that job. Stan should have gone to Accenture and he would be in the big money now. What have we spent so far on this website, somewhere north of a billion? Can we say cost overrun as with most government contracts? Has anyone gone to jail yet? Sebelius got out just in the nick of time I guess.
As long as we are recapping Stan, (1) You are a proven angry Progressive troll as proven by your numerous posts against many on this blog who tried to help you with your career choices.(2) You have it in for anyone over 50 because they paid their dues to succeed and they won’t give their position to you. (3) I did not say Reagan was better than Lincoln, but right up there with him. (4) Texas is better than the dysfunctional California with their $20 budget shortfall while Texas has a surplus. Texas creates jobs while California is running them off. They have a 13.3% State Income tax vs 0 for Texas. How does that benefit the citizens of that state? (4) We execute people for heinous crimes and I make no apology for it. If new evidence such as DNA evidence emerges, they get released. If not, we give them the needle instead of supporting them for 40 years, giving them free medical care etc. By the way, you don’t hurt my feelings. Incorrigibles like you will never get much more than $9 per hours. Who would hire you for a responsible position?
I got in a bit of a hurry. California has a $20 Billion with a B shortfall on their budget with no end in sight.
California has a budget surplus too, Agent. Jesus, surely you’re literate?
Only a Progressive troll like you would say a $354.5 Billion unfunded debt or a $218 Billion debt for public employees or a $80 Billion Teachers Retirement System debt is a positive thing. How will they address it, spend more money on more things. Sorry Stan, California is in deep trouble and all the leading news sources have reported it for many years. You are trying to put lipstick on that pig and it doesn’t work no matter how much you rant.
I don’t have it in for “anyone over 50,” mostly just Tea-Party radicals like yourself whose policies have crippled the country. Then, to add insult to injury, you have the audacity to blame others.
You never did answer my question about a degree. I am assuming that you don’t have one. If this is the case, do you truly believe you could have the same successes starting today that you did decades ago?
And your point about Texas is that it doesnt matter if they take more because the tax rate is less? Applying that logic, universal healthcare is great because other people pay for it! The reason Texas can charge zero income tax is because they are mooching federal dollars, idiot.
There is no free ride, pops. I am ashamed that you have the right to vote. You’re legitimately hurting America.
I don’t play the blame game card. That is for Progressive and your President who has blamed everyone but himself for his failures.
“I don’t play the blame card.” Agent, more hypocrisy. In this very thread you played the blame card!
APRIL 24, 2014 AT 5:40 PM Agent says: “By the way, I blame Obama, all Democrats in Congress and all RINO’s who have gone along to get along.”
More blame from Agent:
On APRIL 25, 2014 AT 12:50 PM Agent says: “Put the blame where it should be. We have the worst government in history and they are not creating the conditions for improvement in this economy. They are only making it worse for all of us.”
Keep in mind it was a republican president that crippled the economy, started two unfunded wars, expanded medicare part D, and passed tax cuts for the wealthy (none of which trickled down).
Agent, brah, youre being played for a fool by the Right. Wise up, dude.
Stan, you cannot recognize truth about anything. Why not hold your President accountable for what he has done to cripple this country in the last 6 years? By the way, there is a new poll out from Harvard Institute that Millenials are pulling back from Progressive politicians that promised them Utopia and they are disillusioned to say the least. Many say they won’t bother to vote in November after they came out in droves in 2012. You are disillusioned and think the over 50 crowd is holding you back. Look no further than Washington DC to find your answer. I think incumbents, especially Democratic incumbents will have a rough time and will be shown the door.
These are similar polls that show millenials are upset with “obamacare.” Which is true, I am upset with it. I am upset that it didnt go far enough towards single payer.
Obama certainly is imperfect (see his stance on drones, warrantless wiretapping, domestic spying, not enough regulation for wall street, etc). But for the last 6 years, there has been a block and impede republican party. To blame Obama for that is foolish. The man can only operate within the current political arena.
Let me guess, you’re a big Ted Cruz fan?
Please quantify how our country has been crippled the past 6 years.
At least Progressives can recognize when they have been fooled. You just keep blindly following your Conservative/Republican leaders thinking they care about fiscal responsibility. How about them extending $280 billion in tax breaks without paying for them?
Agent doesn’t care about Fiscal Responsibility. He cares about spending government money on causes he cares about. Which is fine, that is the nature of politics. But it is disingenuous to say that the left is socialist because they would rather fund education and national parks than warheads and tax breaks.
He’s just a sad old man who is realizing that the world is changing. And instead of looking critically at the causes, he blames Obamacare. Fascinating.
Stan, Bush did not start this war.
The nut jobs that slammed our planes into our building started this war. What on earth would you expect any president to do when we get attacked on the main land?
If that happened on oBamas watch, I would be in full support of him. Nixon. Ford. dont matter who. Any President that did not respond the way Bush did would be inviting any one to come invade us.
Put that blame where the blame belongs.
“What on earth would you expect any president to do when we get attacked on the main land?”
I would expect them to go after the person or persons responsible and not invade a country that had nothing to do with it.
So Stan, knowing what you know now about Obama and how he operates, the number of lies he has told the people over and over, how the government is run by his cadre of thugs, running up huge deficits, passage of the disastrous Obamacare, there is not enough room on this blog to list all of his transgressions, would you still vote for him if he were running this year? I think Ron and Libby would because he is their guy. We are being too hard on him, right? We are racists for opposing Progressive Socialism, right? Your lot is really being improved under his leadership, right?
This is such ridiculous hyperbole. Do you really believe this stuff? And no, youre not a racist for opposing policies. You’re just dumb for voting against your own self interest.
Were you more eloquent in your arguments, the crux of the conservative ideology is that people get what they deserve, and people who have little deserve little and people who have more deserve more, because of intrinsic “betterness” (whether that is smarts, hard work, whatever). And any redistribution of that economic pie = socialism and bad for america since it rewards those who are less-smart or less hard working, leading to a downward spiral.
So given that counter-choice to Obama, yes, I would still vote for him because it is a fantasy. In my own life, I see too many smart hard working people who have very little (many of them young, but not all) and I see many more who have quite a lot, and in the end, I dont believe that those with more are better or harder working than those with less. If you add in technology, the destruction of unions, the soaring costs of education (creating a pay-to-play system that would have ironically excluded you), healthcare, and housing, it is now even harder for the working class to better themselves through self-improvement. In fact, it can be virtually impossible.
As such, in an effort to even the playing field, I believe in greater taxes on those who are at the highest levels to provide advantages to those who are not: subsidized healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc.
Basically, “you didnt build it” is right. Your success is partly due to hard work. But its also due to growing up in a time of unprecedented economic prosperity and use of government infrastructure, a time that has long passed. And because we are in a new era, new policies should govern. And those policies should redistribute the fantastic wealth that America has enjoyed for so long among a greater number of her constituents. THAT is a healthy America.
Who knows, if more people had more wealth, they might be more likely to pay for your service and professionalism, instead of going to GEICO. That might even serve to put you in a better mood. No offense, of course.
How does it feel to have your rhetoric beaten down with facts and verifibale data that are supported by cited sources?
You said, “Texas creates jobs while California is running them off.” California is 8th in private sector job GROWTH from 2013-14 at 2.66% and NUMBER 1 in new private sector jobs over the same timespan.
TX is #5 in government job growth whereas CA is 16th. NY is 29th.
If it weren’t for government jobs, TX would not look so good.
You lose, again.
Ron, why did Toyota move their USA headquarters to Texas? If California was so great, why not stay? They already had their facilities in Torrance for many years. What changed their mind? When 4,000 employee headquarters jobs leave a state, I have to think they saw something a whole lot more attractive. Toyota saw the handwriting on the wall out there and did something about it.
Have you ever been to California? It really IS so great!
If it is so great, why do you live in Pennsylvania Libby? It can’t be because of the weather or the jobs situation. California is beautiful in many places and I look forward to going to the Reagan Library some day, but I certainly wouldn’t want to live there or ever work there.
I don’t know why I have to keep going over the same things with you ad nauseum, Agent. A little dementia kicking in?
I moved to and live in PA because that is where my HUSBAND is. Otherwise I would live in either CA or CO.
How would I know? Am I a Toyota decision maker?
I would love to hear you explain why CA beat TX in total private sector job growth from 3/13 to 3/14. Or why 4 of the top 10 cities for job growth, including the top 2, are in CA, but there are only 2 cities from TX. In addition, explain why TX grew by 17,700 more government jobs than CA.
All you have as proof are outliers.
Why am I not surprised Ron that you don’t know why Toyota is leaving California? If it doesn’t fit your ideology, you are at a loss for words and you have no common sense which fits the mantra of a Progressive troll.
Agent, I think your age is reaching your typing fingers, because this was a ramble if I have ever heard one. Besides, its getting late in Texas, shouldn’t you be eating dinner right about now? Leave the policy decision so the smart people. You’ve done enough.