Dogs Take Big Bite Out of Liability Insurance

May 15, 2014

  • May 15, 2014 at 1:16 pm
    Knowall says:
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    There was just a (surveillance)video out 5/14 5/15/14 showing a dog attacking a kid while he rode his tricycle in his driveway.

    Not too unusual except that the family cat quickly attacked the dog and stopped any further injury! (10 stiches on leg)

    • May 15, 2014 at 1:59 pm
      SWFL Agents says:
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      Saw the video. That cat really knocked that dog on his butt.

      • May 15, 2014 at 5:20 pm
        Agent says:
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        It doesn’t surprise me that NY leads the list on average cost per bite. Everything costs more up there with medical costs.

      • May 15, 2014 at 6:05 pm
        Agent says:
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        Yes, that was funny with the cat kicking that dog’s butt. I have a 24 lb black cat that could have had that dog seeing stars as well.

        • May 16, 2014 at 9:37 am
          Libby says:
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          That gives new meaning to “fat cat”!!

          • May 16, 2014 at 3:40 pm
            Trust me I am not a liberal says:
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            Geez, Agent…does your cat eat lasagna and have a friend named Odie? LOL!!!

          • May 19, 2014 at 9:56 am
            Agent says:
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            We call him our “dog cat” since he has many of the same traits a dog has. He eats his entire bowl of food every time, sleeps a lot on his back with his legs in the air etc. He is big boned, but still overweight despite diet food etc. We don’t feed him scraps from the table, he is just naturally big.

    • June 4, 2014 at 9:37 am
      knowall says:
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      Gentlemen of the jury: The best friend a man has in this world may turn against him and become his enemy. His son or daughter that he has reared with loving care may prove ungrateful. Those who are nearest and dearest to us, those whom we trust with our happiness and our good name, may become traitors to their faith. The money that a man has, he may lose. It flies away from him, perhaps when he needs it the most. A man’s reputation may be sacrificed in a moment of ill-considered action. The people who are prone to fall on their knees to do us honor when success is with us may be the first to throw the stone of malice when failure settles its cloud upon our heads. The one absolutely unselfish friend that a man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him and the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous is his dog.
      Gentlemen of the jury: A man’s dog stands by him in prosperity and in poverty, in health and in sickness. He will sleep on the cold ground, where the wintry winds blow and the snow drives fiercely, if only he may be near his master’s side. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer, he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounters with the roughness of the world. He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a prince. When all other friends desert, he remains. When riches take wings and reputation falls to pieces, he is as constant in his love as the sun in its journey through the heavens.

      If fortune drives the master forth an outcast in the world, friendless and homeless, the faithful dog asks no higher privilege than that of accompanying him to guard against danger, to fight against his enemies, and when the last scene of all comes, and death takes the master in its embrace and his body is laid away in the cold ground, no matter if all other friends pursue their way, there by his graveside will the noble dog be found, his head between his paws, his eyes sad but open in alert watchfulness, faithful and true even to death.

      Vest won the case (a possibly apocryphal story of the case says that the jury awarded $500 to the dog’s owner) and also won its appeal to the Missouri Supreme Court. A statue of the dog stands in front of the Warrensburg, Missouri, courthouse

  • May 15, 2014 at 1:23 pm
    John Walstad says:
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    What breed of dog was responsible for the highest number of claims and the highest cost per claim?

  • May 15, 2014 at 1:47 pm
    Realist says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    Ban Pit Bulls

    • May 15, 2014 at 2:14 pm
      Libby says:
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      Ban irresponsible pit bull owners. Leave the breed alone.

      • May 15, 2014 at 4:13 pm
        Always Amazed says:
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        See there Libby, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this issue. I’ve not met one pit bull that wasn’t nice or who posed a threat.

        • May 15, 2014 at 4:47 pm
          SWFL Agent says:
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          I wonder why Pit Bulls are the dog of choice for dog fighting? Wouldn’t it be more entertaining to train (trained by irresponsible owners of course)a bunch of Golden Retrievers for dog fighting? More fur flying, longer tails & ears to tear apart. Think an owner could be irresponsible enough to turn a pack of Golden’s into vicious killers? I guess there’s always a first.

          • May 15, 2014 at 4:57 pm
            Libby says:
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          • May 16, 2014 at 9:01 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            SWFL – would that make the retriever a “Golden Glove” fighter? Oh, that’s gold Jerry…gold!

          • May 29, 2014 at 5:50 pm
            FFA says:
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            Not sure on that point. Maybe Michael Vick knows…

      • May 16, 2014 at 9:08 am
        Insureanceguy says:
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        Libby and others who have a problem with banning breeds, you are missing the reality of the issue. This doesn’t have to do solely with the breed’s propensity to inflict injury, it is the amount of damage caused when the breed does injure. A little yippy dog may bite more often and cause puncture wounds, but the actual damage is minimal and the claims run around $5k. If you look at the damage a pit bull or other similar dog, if they bite, you are missing a good chunk of your leg, arm or face, leading to massive reconstructive surgery and mental trauma. Big difference. It’s like the difference between a bullet and a mortar round. The latter enflicts much more damage and is more difficult to recover from.

        • May 16, 2014 at 1:13 pm
          Libby says:
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          • May 16, 2014 at 1:54 pm
            Realist says:
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            A responsible pet owner does not own a Pit Bull.

          • May 16, 2014 at 3:09 pm
            But, Libby.... says:
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            Do you keep your pit bull locked in a safe when not in use?

          • May 16, 2014 at 3:34 pm
            Libby says:
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          • May 16, 2014 at 4:57 pm
            Analyst says:
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            A gun doesn’t have the chance of aiming and firing on its own randomly.

          • May 16, 2014 at 5:11 pm
            New Bob says:
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            Like I said before I can totally control my firearm, unfortunately neither you or I can totally control what our dog does even when we are in physcial control of the animal. I remember not to long ago a women in Northern California being attacked and killed by her own dog.

      • May 16, 2014 at 5:24 pm
        EmpoftheEarth says:
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        Your ignorance is shocking. Here is a website showing that Pit Bulls are one of the most dangerous dog breeds.

        http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2013.php

  • May 15, 2014 at 1:57 pm
    Insurance Lady says:
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    Punish the deed, not the breed!

  • May 15, 2014 at 2:23 pm
    Clean Gene says:
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    Over $400 million. So that comes down to what, a few dollars per policy? Not exactly a major driver of insurance costs or a real excuse to be tough on all dogs of certain breeds.

    • May 16, 2014 at 1:55 pm
      Realist says:
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      Not inless your child was killed or maimed beyond belief, Gene.

  • May 15, 2014 at 2:48 pm
    Sue Me Too says:
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    Effective August 29, 2005 the Province of Ontario, Canada banned ownership of Pit Bulls (undercover name: American Staffordshire Terrier). Existing dogs and puppies born within 90 days after the ban were grandfathered. Has anyone suffered? I doubt it. By the way, many Ontarian dog breeders are excellent providers of many other breeds, and bringing a Canadian dog to US is simple. I’ve done it!

    • May 15, 2014 at 3:54 pm
      Libby says:
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      • May 16, 2014 at 7:13 pm
        Sue Me Too says:
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        Simple! Ban the breed. The Ontario fine is up to $10,000 for individuals and $60k for corporations.

  • May 15, 2014 at 3:39 pm
    Bill says:
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    Is there a breakdown by breed available?

  • May 15, 2014 at 4:28 pm
    Boonedoggle says:
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    There are already exclusions on Homeowners policies for such things as certain watercraft, and motor vehicles when off the premises. I can’t imagine $463 million in potential mo-ped liability claims, yet the ISO and proprietary homeowners forms exclude coverage.

    In fairness to those of us who do not have dogs, why not sell optional dog liability coverage, actuarially rated to cover this $463 million cost and distribute the risk to those who are causing it?

  • May 15, 2014 at 5:04 pm
    companyman says:
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    Boon-While I don’t disagree, we could easily slip into an ala carte insurance system. In fairness to those of us who don’t have kids, guns, etc.. I would actually like to see a policies that have a sublimit for dog bites.

    Someone asked about most biting dog. Hard to pin that down as many aren’t reported. Also, the numbers get skewed as most list cocker spainiel or chahuahua as the most biting, but also a very common breed. So number or bites probably correlate to number of animals. Many of the breeds on ineligible lists are due to size of the animals and possible severity of bite..not necessarily the propensity to bite.

    • May 15, 2014 at 5:17 pm
      Agent says:
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      Is it any wonder that the Homeowners carriers always ask about dogs and the breeds? They all have several breeds that are unacceptable. Leading the list is usually Pit Bulls followed by Dobermans, German Shepherds, Chows and a few others.

      • May 15, 2014 at 6:18 pm
        Nan says:
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        I called a company that offers dog obedience classes to ask THEM about “bad dogs”. I was told the top of the list should be cocker spaniels. Although not large, they have been so inbred tot he point that they are unpredictable.

      • May 16, 2014 at 8:41 am
        Vivien Cosner says:
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        The problem is that Vets & shelters automatically classify dogs as GSD’s, pitbulls…when there is a mixed breed. Also, I for one can guarantee that German Shepherds are much too smart to bite. Dashounds on the other hand… Pitbulls are just babies. Unless altered by humans. Punish the owner, not the breed.

        • May 19, 2014 at 10:17 am
          Irishter2 says:
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          I have taught public obedience class for over 20 yrs and out of that 25 yrs I have had 2-3 dogs that were what I considered dangerous – GSD (German Shepherd Dog), St. Bernard and a Golden. GSD’s have been over bred so much that a number of them have fear aggressive behavior and are extremely high string. I love GSD’s infact I had one for 13yrs until she passed away and it is sad what humans had done to these intelligent, loving and caring dogs. I also had a Rottie who had advanced AKC obedience titles and did a children class that instruct children how to behave with dogs. the big dogs get the bad press because of the amount of damage they do but as a person into dogs for 50 yrs the meanest one I have come across was a Chihuahua.

          • May 20, 2014 at 12:24 pm
            Paul says:
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            My GSD is aggressive only when threatened. He will walk through a public event and not even flinch when other dogs bark at him.. He just ignores them and keeps on walking. He is only three years old, so it’s not like he’s deaf and tired.

  • May 16, 2014 at 9:19 am
    Insureanceguy says:
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    Hello people, there are two different things being talked about here. IF you are objecting to communities banning certain breeds, that subject doesn’t belong here, this is about insurance. Call your local politician to vent.

    If you are commenting on the insurance side of “dogs companies will not insure”, you can’t just look at the breed itself, you have to look at the amount of damage that a breed can inflict. Yes, while a cocker spaniel (or many other little dogs) might have a horrible temperment and have a higher bite frequency, the amount of damage they cause is often minimal, leading to antibiotics and wound dressing changes. You look at some of the larger breeds, with stronger jaws, etc, like pit bulls, when they bite, you are often missing a huge chunk of your face, arm or leg, requiring major reconstuctive surgery. It’s like the difference between a bullet and a mortar round. The latter causes much more damage, and is often more difficult to revcover from. From an insurance perspective, these dogs are undesireable insurance risks due to the potential severity of a claim, so they (and it’s a free country) decide not to offer insurance to the owners of these breeds. It’s no difference than denying coverage for an attractive nuisance like a trampoline. It’s an insurance risk.

    • May 16, 2014 at 1:15 pm
      Libby says:
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      • May 16, 2014 at 1:33 pm
        New Bob says:
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        The outrage over gun underwriting was a result of the second amendment right and that a gun by itself can do nothing. A animal on the other hand can take action with no other influence at all. So from where I sit not hypocritical at all, but just my opinion.

        • May 16, 2014 at 3:37 pm
          Libby says:
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          • May 16, 2014 at 5:07 pm
            New Bob says:
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            Really, can you please enlighten me as to what a firearm can do without anyone or thing touching it. Regardless of what some may report a firearm in proper repair does not just “go off”. Some outside force needs to impact the weapon such as pulling the trigger or in rare instances dropping a revolver and having the hammer strick the primer. Otherwise the weapon just sits, the same as any other tool.

            The right to bear arms is protected by the bill of rights your right to have a dog of your choosing is not, do I agree with local ordinances regarding dog ownership, not just no but H*** no, only problem is that the courts do not agree with me on this one.

            As to the stupidest thing you have ever heard comment save your insults for someone who actually cares what you have to think!!

        • May 16, 2014 at 3:40 pm
          Libby says:
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          “The outrage over gun underwriting was a result of the second amendment right..” That is the right to BEAR arms. It says nothing about a carrier underwriting and charging a premium for gun ownership. Yet they made it illegal in Florida. You’re just a bunch of hypocrites!

          • May 16, 2014 at 4:56 pm
            Insureanceguy says:
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            Again Libby, you are confusing the issues. We are talking about whether or not an insurance company wants to insure certain types of dogs or not. You obviously have many issues with insurance companies and what they choose to insure (or not). You’re right, it’s a free country with free enterprise, so if that’s what a company chooses to do, you have the right to find a company that meets your needs. Insurance is not a right! Companies can choose what they want to insure and what they don’t want to insure. What about carriers that won’t write an HO policy due to a low insurance score. Why aren’t you crying about that? Is it ok for a carrier to not underwrite a trampoline? Take the emotion and personal feelings out of your arguements and look at the issue of risk itself. That’s what insurance is. The next thing you will probably say is that Life Insurance companies should offer standard or preferred rates for someone with a terminal illness as opposed to denying coverage. Try to look at this with a little common sense and basic understanding of Risk Management and you’ll understand most carrier decisions concerning underwriting.

          • May 19, 2014 at 8:59 am
            Libby says:
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            Yet they’re not allowed to underwrite for firearms. I’m not confusing the issues. That WAS my issue. Why dogs, but not firearms?

          • May 19, 2014 at 9:33 am
            KY jw says:
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            Insuranceguy – You just made Libby’s point:

            “We are talking about whether or not an insurance company wants to insure certain types of dogs or not.”

            Libby was comparing the concept to whether or not an insurance company wants to insure guns.

          • May 19, 2014 at 10:33 pm
            Insuranceguy says:
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          • May 20, 2014 at 9:20 am
            Libby says:
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            NO! It was about UNDERWRITING for dogs or guns and the carrier’s right to do so. Underwriting for guns was struck down in Florida, but underwriting for dogs was not.

            Personally, I find your gun alot more dangerous than my dog, regardless of breed. My dog may bite you, but your gun may KILL me.

            Why shouldn’t the carrier be able to underwrite for the exposure???

          • May 20, 2014 at 11:45 am
            KY jw says:
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            Insuranceguy says: “KY jw – I was trying to tell Libby to take her gun battle elsewhere”

            The discussion is about underwriting for the exposure, not what that exposure is. Underwriters need all the information so they can appropriately accept or decline risks.

  • May 16, 2014 at 9:44 am
    Don Quixote says:
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    You want insurance companies not to worry so much about dog bites, then petition your legislators to repeal the “strict liability” statutes that leave virtually no defense for the owner in dog bite cases.

    I’ve seen several claims where the dog was properly restrained on its own property and the so-called victim approached the dog without the owner’s permission and got bitten. Sorry, but if you walk up to a strange dog without the owner’s permission you are willingly putting yourself in danger and should not be entitled to a liability settlement. Comparative negligence should be the standard, not strict liability.

    • May 16, 2014 at 1:36 pm
      New Bob says:
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      Some states have become so bad on this that they will hold the property owner liabel for the action of a tenant or guest of tenants dog that the property owner had no knowledge of. Saw a recent loss in I belive it was KY that the carrier for the property owner paid big for the dog of a third party.

  • May 16, 2014 at 12:59 pm
    knowall says:
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    It’s a dog eat dog world out there

  • May 16, 2014 at 2:25 pm
    Secret Agent Girl says:
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    The moral to this thread is: If you want to protect your kid from rogue dogs, get a cat!

  • May 16, 2014 at 5:37 pm
    Phil says:
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    To me making a list of dangerous dogs is like making a list of the gun models that kill the most. It’s all in the owner.

    • May 19, 2014 at 9:01 am
      Libby says:
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      Thank you, Phil. That’s what these people don’t get. Most of them have probably never even seen a pit bull, let alone known or owned one. They are dangerout, IF THEY BITE. As a responsible dog owner you don’t:

      A) Raise them to be vicious
      B) Let them around little children or other dogs

      Simple as that.

      • May 19, 2014 at 9:38 am
        KY jw says:
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        Anecdotal evidence, granted, but my neighbor’s pit bull is absolutely adorable. He plays with the kids in his family very well. The kids are between 3 and 8 and the dog is more than a year old, maybe two years old by now. I even go over to their yard and pet the dog. He loves the attention.

        • May 19, 2014 at 10:14 am
          Agent says:
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          KY, you are naïve about this breed. I have seen numerous horror stories over the years that a supposedly gentle Pit Bull viciously attacks without warning and will kill an innocent child or a disabled person. It is bred in their genes. They can’t help their nature and that neighbor of yours is playing with fire. Hope they don’t have a tragedy at some point.

          • May 19, 2014 at 10:56 am
            Libby says:
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          • May 19, 2014 at 12:22 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            Libby, again…

            http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2013.php

            These are your cuddly dogs..even in the scenario you describe there are “family” dogs that go crazy.

          • May 19, 2014 at 1:35 pm
            Libby says:
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          • May 19, 2014 at 2:15 pm
            KY jw says:
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            Well, Agent, if that happens, you are free to tell me “I told you so.”

          • May 19, 2014 at 2:50 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            I do know that dogs are animals that do not achieve a level of sentience like human beings. Dogs are not people and do not follow a moral code. I do know about dogs as 1) I was a Personal Lines Underwriter 2) My wife had a German Shepherd who was very protective of his family. 3) Ive been in the doghouse before with my wife

          • May 19, 2014 at 2:52 pm
            Libby says:
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          • May 19, 2014 at 5:49 pm
            Agent says:
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            KY, isn’t it time you started worrying about Bob not blogging on this forum since it has been weeks? How about worrying about Sargeant Major as well? I haven’t seen him say anything since mid winter. Surely, the snow has melted in Detroit by now. Maybe he is moving his location to Indiana which has a better climate for weather and business.

          • May 19, 2014 at 5:56 pm
            Agent says:
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            Hey EmpotheEarth, I like your statistics on Pit Bulls & Rottwilers a lot better than Libby sugar coating and saying they are a perfect family dog. Our companies also don’t like them for good reason. They can kill a small child or an elderly person in a matter of seconds and think nothing of it.

          • May 20, 2014 at 9:23 am
            Libby says:
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            Agent – if you had been following or comprehending, or both, you would know that Bob found Jesus and is now refusing to converse on IJ.

            And I don’t think anyone but you misses Sarge.

          • May 20, 2014 at 11:52 am
            KY jw says:
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            Libby – was that sarcasm? I’m referring to your Bob found Jesus and won’t post on IJ anymore. I can’t tell this time.

            I took a couple days off and my desk was (well, still is really) buried in work. I haven’t been able to lurk on IJ as much as I would like. So, if bob has said something, I missed it.

          • May 20, 2014 at 2:55 pm
            Libby says:
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            No sarcasm, KY. He has officially gone off his nut. He said I am evil and he must cast me out of his life. He tried posting under another moniker once, but I called him out on it (you can’t mistake his style) and he hasn’t been back since that I can tell. God bless him. I hope he finds some peace in his life. He’s one tormented soul.

          • May 21, 2014 at 7:13 am
            KY jw says:
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            Thanks, Libby. I’m surprised, but hey, to each his own.

        • May 22, 2014 at 3:06 pm
          Agent says:
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          KY, I hope this dog doesn’t take your hand off or worse sometime for trying to pet him. Kids 3 & 8? They are very vulnerable and these are the stories I have seen for many years. No provocation attacks and it is over in a matter of seconds.

      • May 21, 2014 at 2:46 pm
        Agent says:
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        KY, I trust you will let us know if your neighbors dog went wild and mauled someone. I have seen a number of stories and seen the interviews with the owners. They would say they just couldn’t understand it since the dog had been docile up until then. The dog had actually killed a small child.

        • May 21, 2014 at 3:59 pm
          Libby says:
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          I saw a number of stories about UFO’s. They came with pictures and everything!

        • May 22, 2014 at 8:55 am
          KY jw says:
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          If it happens before I die or move, I’ll be sure to let you know.

  • May 19, 2014 at 11:23 am
    Agent says:
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    Do you remember the famous Siegfried & Roy show in Vegas with the Tigers? They raised them from cubs, showered them with love, the best food etc. One day, the Tiger mauled (was it Roy) with no provocation. Pit Bulls are docile at times, but they are very unpredictable and it is not worth the risk to have one. Give me German Shepherd anytime. They are beautiful and very loving and protective around children. I know, I had one for 13 years.

    • May 19, 2014 at 11:41 am
      Libby says:
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      • May 19, 2014 at 12:45 pm
        SWFL Agent says:
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        Ok Libby, after all of the discussion we’ll make you the ultimate authority on Pit bulls and here’s what you’ve told us: Pit bulls can be docile and friendly, don’t let them loose around small children and other dogs, they are unpredictable, stronger than other breeds, they are dangerous if they bite, and the owner needs to be responsible. I’m trying to be open-minded but I just don’t see much joy in this type of pet ownership. But I wouldn’t deny anyone else their right to own one.

        • May 19, 2014 at 1:40 pm
          Libby says:
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    • May 20, 2014 at 12:34 pm
      Agent says:
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      Yes KY, Libby is the ultimate authority on anything and everybody and knows that a man in Washington State found Jesus and has chosen not to blog anymore because he might swear at Libby & Ron for being so stupid and ranting their Progressive agenda.

      Actually, I miss Sargeant’s replies to them as well. He let’s them have it with pithy remarks. I am pretty sure that FFA, Perplexed, Sarah, Destro, New Bob and others do as well.

      • May 20, 2014 at 2:57 pm
        Libby says:
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        Yes, I know that Agent because he told me so. Obviously you weren’t paying attention AGAIN or were unable to retain the information AGAIN. So shut it.

        • May 20, 2014 at 3:31 pm
          Agent says:
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          Libby, You were given the facts by EmpoftheEarth and chose to ignore all of them on the Pit Bull records and it sailed right over your head. Why am I not surprised since you were dumb enough to vote for Obama twice? You also said he had been honest with the American people. What a twit! You and Ron are really far out there.

          • May 21, 2014 at 7:19 am
            KY jw says:
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            Agent, I read the report EmpoftheEarth provided. 25 fatalities is awful, I agree.

            However, what I would like to know is the TOTAL number of pit bulls in America and the number of pit bull attacks. Obviously, not all attacks end in a fatality, so I am looking for all attacks. What I am looking for is the actual PERCENTAGE of pit bulls who have attacked a person. I don’t know the answer, but I would be willing to bet that it’s less than 50%.

          • May 21, 2014 at 10:13 am
            Agent says:
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            KY, it really doesn’t matter what the number of pit bulls there are in America or the percent of pit bulls that have attacked people. Their track record is abominable and they far outstrip the next breed with attacks and many are fatal.

          • May 21, 2014 at 2:02 pm
            KY jw says:
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            Yes it does matter, Agent. Because it would show that the breed can successfully be a family pet. It’s all about the nurture for these dogs. If anything less than 100% of pit bulls attack someone, then there is room to argue that they can be trained.

          • May 21, 2014 at 4:02 pm
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            Yes, they can be nurtured and trained to be family pets. Unfortunately, many have been bred to be fighting dogs and it’s very difficult to change them once that has happened.

            Again, it comes down to the person breeding and raising them. Same as it does a child.

  • May 19, 2014 at 12:16 pm
    paul says:
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    When we were kids, everyone let their dogs wander and I don’t recall anyone being sued over a dog bite.

    • May 21, 2014 at 10:10 am
      Agent says:
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      Paul, how many lawyers graduated from Law School since you were a kid? We live in a much more litigious society now and people will sue over anything with hopes of a big payday.

  • May 19, 2014 at 12:19 pm
    paul says:
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    Wait until the hood rats learn about the Caucasian Mountain Dog, which has been newly introduced to in the U.S. Those suckers have Presa Canarios for a snack.

    • May 19, 2014 at 2:53 pm
      EmpoftheEarth says:
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      • May 19, 2014 at 2:59 pm
        Libby says:
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        OMG! Is that Larry the Lion? I wouldn’t be able to afford to feed that horse, er, dog!

    • May 19, 2014 at 3:05 pm
      nomesaneman says:
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      At least that’s a “priveleged” breed that Companies can easily and correctly discriminate against — especially the middle-aged ones.

      • May 19, 2014 at 3:19 pm
        Libby says:
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        No, nomesaneman. It’s a real dog.

    • May 19, 2014 at 5:44 pm
      Agent says:
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      Good picture of this dog. What a mane he has on him! I wonder how many 50lb bags of dog food this guy goes through a month. Is he known as a gentle breed? If he is anything like my German Shepherd (now deceased), he is extremely good with children and the only thing he might do is accidentally knock one down trying to love on them.

      • May 20, 2014 at 12:30 pm
        Paul says:
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        They are born aggressive. They are loyal to their owner and sometimes not even to his family. They are the only breed that doesn’t need guard dog training. They show their aggression as early as three weeks. One of our producers just put his CMD down. The 200 pound dog attacked a visitor. Also, the dog couldn’t live in the house because he remarried and the dog wasn’t acclimating to the wife and kids. He was relegated to a fenced in yard with a dog house.

        • May 20, 2014 at 3:00 pm
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  • May 19, 2014 at 2:58 pm
    Libby says:
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    • May 19, 2014 at 3:54 pm
      SWFL Agent says:
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      The woman that wrote this is no expert and has no credibility. She states that it’s a myth that pit bulls’ jaws lock. But you, IJ’s ultimate authority on pit bulls, says the jaws do lock. I think you know more than she does – to paraphrase, you state – they are docile, friendly animals that are unpredictable, strong and dangerous, shouldn’t be loose around children or other dogs and require a higher level of responsibility to own than other pets. You really sold me. I think I’ll get one.

      • May 19, 2014 at 4:14 pm
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      • May 19, 2014 at 5:39 pm
        Agent says:
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        SW, Libby can post all her nonsense articles she wants about Pit Bulls saying they are gentle happy go lucky dogs and it won’t change the facts that almost all incidents we see of serious dog attacks involve Pit Bulls. They are a nasty piece of work and should never be around children or the elderly or you will eventually have big trouble.

        • May 20, 2014 at 9:31 am
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          • May 20, 2014 at 10:40 am
            Agent says:
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            Libby, I suggest you read EmpotheEarth link once again on the record of Pit Bulls and Rottwilers. Wise up if you are capable of that.

          • May 20, 2014 at 10:54 am
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  • May 19, 2014 at 4:30 pm
    Libby says:
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    OK. Common tactic when you don’t like the message. Attack the source. Are any of these sources “credible” according to YOU? How about the AKC? They don’t rate the pitbull as dangerous. As a matter of fact they say “The Am Staff is a people-oriented dog that thrives when he is made part of the family and given a job to do. Although friendly, this breed is loyal to his family and will protect them from any threat.”

    http://pitbulls.org/article/are-pit-bulls-dangerous

    http://www.pet-health-care-gazette.com/2012/05/04/are-pit-bulls-inherently-dangerous-as-a-breed/

    http://news.discovery.com/animals/zoo-animals/pit-bulls-dangerous-120515.htm

    I know some of this is science and I suspect you are one of those non-science believers that pooh-poohs climate change and will fight to the death for your right to shoot guns, so all of this DATA may confuse and aggravate you.

    • May 20, 2014 at 11:56 am
      KY jw says:
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      :-)

    • May 20, 2014 at 12:25 pm
      Agent says:
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      Libby, you are entitled to your opinion, but not just your facts. Now, you can shut up and get off this blog and go back to your CSR duties.

      • May 20, 2014 at 3:01 pm
        Libby says:
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        These are not MY facts, Agent. The are THE facts. Now you can shut it and go back to NOT producing business.

        • May 21, 2014 at 4:34 pm
          EmpoftheEarth says:
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          Sigh…Libby…Sigh…

          From the American Humane Society website: http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

          •An estimated 4.5 million dog bites occur in the U.S. each year2
          •Nearly 885,000 dog bites require medical care2
          •Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered1
          •Approximately 25% of fatal dog attacks involved chained dogs1
          •Approximately 71% of bites occur to the extremities (arms, legs, hands, feet)2
          •Approximately two-thirds of bites occurred on or near the victim’s property, and most victims knew the dog
          •The insurance industry pays more than $489 million in dog-bite claims each year3
          •At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog-bite-related fatalities in the U.S.4
          •Approximately 24% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off of their owners’ property4
          •Approximately 58% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs on their owners’ property4

          • May 21, 2014 at 5:03 pm
            Libby says:
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            Sorry, Empo. You just proved my point.

            •Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered
            •Approximately 25% of fatal dog attacks involved chained dogs

            Proof that these are dogs that were not properly trained by their people. All responsible dog owners spay or neuter their animals. And no respectable pet owner would chain their dog. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO OWN ANIMALS!

            ••At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog-bite-related fatalities in the U.S.

            This is also further proof that it is not just one breed that is reponsible for dog bites. Any dog can attack if improperly trained and/or provoked.

            Please. Blame the responsible party. And it’s not the dog.

          • May 21, 2014 at 5:29 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            “Don’t blame the dog” logic

            Pit bull owners frequently blame the “environment” after a pit bull seriously injures a person. A participant in the Tufts study illustrates this clearly, “If you get some kid that has been beaten all his life, he’s going to go out and be aggressive towards people.”12 The intention is to assert that an aggressive pit bull must have been beaten or taught to attack by their owners instead of admitting to the genetic traits that define the breed (See: Why do people say that pit bulls “don’t let go?”)

            Pit bull owners frequently direct blame onto victims after an attack too. While “blaming the victim” is a universal phenomenon, pit bull owners do so offensively. The instance involving Wendy Blevins, who DogsBite.org awarded 2008 Victims Advocate of the Year, is an excellent example. After Tina Agerson’s pit bull casually walked up to Wendy and her daughter and latched onto the child’s head, Wendy immediately straddled the attacking dog and pulled it off Charlotte.

            As blood flew everywhere, Agerson stood by and watched. She later said that Wendy “blocked” her from getting her dog. In a subsequent blog post about the incident, a pit bull advocate left a comment asking why Wendy did not have insurance to cover her child’s medical bills, which surpassed $110,000 in 30 days. First, Wendy was insured; second, the commenter blamed the victim for being unable to pay these bills after “someone else’s dog” nearly killed her child.

            In a separate incident, a victim with a history of seizures was blamed for the attack that led to her death. Kelli Chapman was sleeping in her bed when her two pet pit bulls killed her. It was quickly assumed that because she suffered from seizures, she must have had one and the pit bulls “naturally” reacted to it by killing her. Yet, we will never know if she suffered a seizure, and if she did, the order of events: Did a seizure cause the attack or did the attack cause a seizure?13

            In nearly all instances of serious and fatal pit bull attacks, pit bull owners, and in some cases authorities, blame the attack on the environment or the actions of the victim. There is a refusal on their part to admit that a pit bull will attack unprovoked. Some of the most grievous examples include a child holding a stuffed animal and a child bumping into a pit bull. “Don’t Blame the Dog” believers say such actions sufficiently explain why the pit bull severely injured or killed the child.

          • May 22, 2014 at 9:57 am
            Libby says:
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            I’m sorry. I don’t understand the point of you posting three anecdotal stories about pit bull attacks. I never denied that they happen. Should I post three stories of successful pit bull owners? Would that do anything to sway you? No. And your stories do nothing to sway me.

        • May 21, 2014 at 4:34 pm
          EmpoftheEarth says:
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          Dog bites and children
          •50% of dog attacks involved children under 12 years old
          •82% of dog bites treated in the emergency room involved children under 15 years old2
          •70% of dog-bite fatalities occurred among children under 10 years old5
          •Bite rates are dramatically higher among children who are 5 to 9 years old2
          •Unsupervised newborns were 370 times more likely than an adult to be killed by a dog5
          •65% of bites among children occur to the head and neck2
          •Boys under the age of 15 years old are bitten more often than girls of the same age2

          • May 21, 2014 at 5:06 pm
            Libby says:
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            I’ll say it again, since you seem to be having a hard time comprehending. These are dogs that have not been property bred, raised, and/or trained by their owners.

            *Unsupervised newborns were 370 times more likely than an adult to be killed by a dog. Are you kidding me??? Who leaves their newborn unsupervised with an unpredicable dog around? And you’re blaming the Dog??? Give me a break!

          • May 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            Ok…let’s try this again…

            Here is another link. http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-dog-attacks-and-maimings-merritt-clifton.php

            I wish I could publish the table on here. It shows a time period of 1982 through 2013 in Canada and the US. Pretty much shows that Pit Bulls are 6% of the total dog population yet caused well over 60% of the total bodily harm attacks, more than 60% of the children and adult attacks, more than 60% of the total maimings, and more than 60% of total deaths. I don’t know about you, but there is a strong correlation here between breed and physical attacks. And if you took statistics, a sample size of more than 20 is statistically significant. So please stop the emotional arguments about your sample size of 1 or 2 and take a real hard look at the data. If this doesn’t convince you, then…go watch some rocks move.

          • May 21, 2014 at 5:19 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            1982-2013 chart

            Breed

            Bodily harm

            Child Victims

            Adult Victims

            Deaths

            Maimings

            % of total dog population

            Pit bull

            2792

            1114

            1047

            263

            1677

            6.0%

            Rottweiler

            514

            290

            136

            81

            294

            2%

            Husky

            79

            49

            5

            25

            24

            .07%

            Wolf hybrid

            85

            70

            5

            19

            49

            Bullmastiff (Presa canario)

            105

            42

            39

            15

            61

            .02%

            German shepherd

            102

            63

            30

            15

            63

            2.1%

            Pit bull-mix

            191

            75

            45

            12

            102

            Akita

            68

            43

            21

            8

            50

            1%

            Boxer

            62

            19

            21

            7

            29

            1.4%

            Chow

            58

            37

            17

            7

            39

            .009%

            German shepherd-mix

            43

            28

            12

            7

            28

            Doberman

            18

            9

            9

            7

            10

            1.4%

        • May 21, 2014 at 4:46 pm
          EmpoftheEarth says:
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          http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/8-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf

          Pit Bulls #1 for fatalities

          • May 21, 2014 at 4:58 pm
            Agent says:
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            Good one EmpoftheEarth. Of course, this won’t cut any ice with Libby or KYjw since they know that Pit Bulls are just the sweetest animals and it is always the fault of the owners. These dangerous animals are responsible for more deaths than all the other breeds combined.

          • May 21, 2014 at 5:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Yes, because of their strength. Not because of their temperment. These are dogs that were not properly bred. Period. End of story. Next!

          • May 21, 2014 at 6:04 pm
            Agent says:
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            Libby, you have lost this argument by a country mile. EmpoftheEarth handed you your head on a silver platter and you are too dumb to realize it.

          • May 22, 2014 at 8:32 am
            KY jw says:
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            You still didn’t answer MY question. Of the total number of pit bulls in the US (or North America – whatever), how many pit bulls actually bit someone?

            Your article does not provide the total number of pit bulls in the US & Canada, just that there were 2,792 that bit someone. Yes, every bite is bad. I have no problem with that generalization.

            You and Agent keep saying ALL pit bulls are horrible (violent, etc) dogs. This can’t be true because the dogs that participate in the AKC shows haven’t bit anyone. Those owners and breeders have done what is necessary to make their dogs good citizens. Why can’t other people?

          • May 22, 2014 at 8:35 am
            KY jw says:
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            No Agent, EmpoftheEarth has not proven that ALL pit bulls are bad. He (she?) has only shown that all bites are bad and more likely to be fatal than other dogs.

            That doesn’t mean ALL pit bulls are bad; it is not the same thing. Until you can prove that EVERY SINGLE pit bull in the world has bitten someone, you are actually wrong.

          • May 22, 2014 at 8:58 am
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            Libby, you’re beginning to wear down and lose us here. Your earlier post said “The idea that viciousness is “bred into a dog’s genes” is ridiculous”. Now you’re stating that “these dogs were not properly bred”. Which is it? Or do you just not know?

          • May 22, 2014 at 10:02 am
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            I don’t know where my actual post is, so maybe I misspoke. I mean to say “The idea that viciousness is born into a dog’s genes is ridiculous.”

            Yes, they can be bred to be vicious. That is my ENTIRE point. If you do not take the time to train and socialize your pit bull, do not blame it on the dog if they bite someone.

      • May 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm
        EmpoftheEarth says:
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        Come on agent. Don’t be mean. She obviously is one of those Obamacare Navigators, and you know as well as I know that business has been bad. The website crashing, no one paying their premiums…that is why Libby is on here all of the time. Let’s cut her some slack since they did not train her at all in her job and she is such an authority on pit bulls.

        • May 21, 2014 at 5:56 pm
          Agent says:
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          Yes, Libby and I have our run ins on every article on IJ that we blog on. She is an Obummer supporter who voted for him twice and thought he had been honest with the American people. Hmm! It has been dozens of lies now on every program and department, no leadership and no clue how to govern. I saw an article today that the VA is just a microcosm of what will be happening to Obamacare in the coming months. I have no doubt it will prove to be one of the greatest tragedies in American history.

        • May 22, 2014 at 8:37 am
          KY jw says:
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          EmpoftheEarth, you haven’t proven your hypothesis. You stated all pit bulls are violent, horrible dogs.

          Yet, there are pit bulls that have never bitten anyone. Therefore, your hypothesis is wrong.

          • May 22, 2014 at 9:47 am
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            KY jw,

            I never stated that ALL pit bulls are violent, horrible dogs. My statement was that Pit Bulls are abnormally involved in violent attacks that cause an unusual amount of damage in terms of fatalities and maimings.

            I did have a hard time finding data that showed the % of pit bulls that bit. I do believe that table showed, from a humanocentric perspective, that Pit Bulls are involved very disproportionately in fatalities and violent attacks. My point with all of this was to show that this is a breed that is very dangerous and caution should be allowed.

          • May 22, 2014 at 10:04 am
            Libby says:
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            How many of those pit bulls bit more than once?

          • May 22, 2014 at 10:08 am
            Agent says:
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            Empo, I knew you were fighting a losing battle trying to reason with Libby & KY. Your stats do not faze them and they think if there is a small % of Pit Bulls that haven’t bitten or mauled, that rescues the entire breed. I wonder what the stats would look like if the entire breed were eliminated. Just think how many children would be saved over a period of time. The Insurance industry would also save tremendously on claims.

          • May 22, 2014 at 10:09 am
            Libby says:
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            Empo – I never denied the pit bull can be dangerous. I said it’s because of irresponsible pit bull owners that the majority of these attacks happen. Will there be the rogue pit bull that turns on their owner? Yes. Just as there are rogue dogs of other breeds that do the same.

            I think I started out saying that if you own a pit bull, you should know they could easily attack small children and other dogs so it is incumbent upon you, as the owner, to keep them away from those situations.

            Do you or do you know agree? I don’t know why we are arguing about this. I never said a pit bull was the ideal family pet. You people twisted my words and said that.

          • May 22, 2014 at 2:17 pm
            Give it a rest says:
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            Libby,

            While I do see both sides of the argument at hand to a degree, I must say that you keep flip flopping on your points. You said: “if you own a pit bull, you should know they could easily attack small children and other dogs so it is incumbent upon you, as the owner, to keep them away from those situations.”

            But then another post says: ‘If you do not take the time to train and socialize your pit bull, do not blame it on the dog if they bite someone.’

            To me those two statements are contradicting each other. And another comment you asked “how many of those pits bit more than once??” Should that even be a question, isn’t one bite bad enough, especially with a breed that can cause so much damage?

            My post is not to bash your opinion’s in any way Libby, I actually agree with you on a lot of issue’s, but this particular issue, your points are too wishy-washy.

            Thank you for your time and I hope everyone has wonderful holiday weekend coming up!

          • May 22, 2014 at 2:56 pm
            Libby says:
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          • May 22, 2014 at 3:56 pm
            Give it a rest says:
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            Libby,

            I appreciate your return comment and I now understand that you were directing the comments at two separate issues at hand.

            I must say, I am not a personal fan of any big dog myself. I admit, they make me nervous! On the same token, I have a little “Chugg” mixed dog and I have to watch him as he is prone to snapping when he feels intimidated. His bite would not do much damage, but is still an issue that I must be very aware of when visitors come over. My husband’s sister was attacked by the family chow when she was a toddler, she accidentally stepped on him in the middle of the night and he snapped and bit half of her nose off her face, causing 80+ stitches. So agreed that any dog can bite, but I do think certain breeds tend to show more aggression than others and undisputed, certain breeds can cause much worse damage than others.

            Again, thank you for your time and response and I truly hope we all have a nice safe holiday weekend with our friends, families…and dogs too! LOL

          • May 22, 2014 at 4:07 pm
            Libby says:
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            Chihuhua/Pug? I bet he/she’s adorable! Right now, I have a Chihuahua and a Chiweenie. I adopted them year before last when my Terrier/Chihuahua (who looked like Stripe on Gremlins) and my French Shephard (the best dog EVER) passed.

            They were both very old when I adopted them, but they have brought great joy into our lives.

            As I said before, my best friend had a pit bull, Dolly, that was a wonderful friend and companion. But we would not have trusted her around small children or other dogs because we couldn’t be sure how she’d act. She might have been fine, but why take the chance? That’s what I mean about being responsible.

            I hope for a safe and happy Memorial Day weekend for all on IJ as well. Sometimes it’s fun to disagree, but I don’t hold a grudge.

        • May 22, 2014 at 2:36 pm
          Agent says:
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          Empo, why don’t we go together and buy up a bunch of that Chinese dog jerky and feed it to every Pit Bull that has aggressive tendencies. That might solve a lot of problems.

          • May 22, 2014 at 3:16 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            Or have one of those “Lion Dogs” that was posted from the Caucausus Mountains…I bet the Pit Bull would have second thoughts from a dog as big as a human…

          • May 22, 2014 at 3:18 pm
            EmpoftheEarth says:
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            Or since Libby kept dwelling on this fact: 96% of dogs are not neutered…Maybe we can get a posse together and go around checking underneath every dog and “cutting loose.”

  • May 21, 2014 at 11:50 am
    The F'n Deansie says:
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    I would happily purchase a home policy that excluded dog bite coverage for a discount.

    • May 22, 2014 at 3:18 pm
      EmpoftheEarth says:
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      Hear hear…

      • May 22, 2014 at 3:56 pm
        Agent says:
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        Empo, to lighten this discussion up, I received the following email joke on dogs.
        The Dog
        It hit me like a ton of bricks!
        I just realized something:
        My dog sleeps 20 hours a day.
        He has his food prepared for him.
        His meals are provided at no cost to him.
        He visits the Dr. once a year for his checkup and again during the year, if any medical needs arise.
        For this, he pays nothing, and nothing is required of him.
        He lives in a nice neighborhood in a house that is much larger than he needs, but is not required to do any upkeep.
        If he makes a mess, someone else cleans it up.
        He has a choice of luxurious places to sleep.
        He receives his accomodations absolutely free.
        He is living like a king and has absolutely no expenses whatsoever.
        All of his costs are picked up by others who earn a living.
        I was thinking about all of this, and suddenly it hit me like a ton of bricks — MY DOG IS A DEMOCRAT!

      • May 22, 2014 at 3:59 pm
        Libby says:
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        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

        • May 22, 2014 at 4:07 pm
          Agent says:
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          Actually, I am a Democrat hater.

          • May 22, 2014 at 4:10 pm
            Libby says:
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            I know that, but I was talking about Empo. He’d like a discount for not having a dog, which means he doesn’t have one.

  • May 22, 2014 at 4:40 pm
    Agent says:
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    90+% of dogs are fine and are loving and man’s best friend. 10% of them like Pit Bulls, Rottwilers, Doberman’s, Chows, not so much. The insurance industry could save $300 million per year on dog bite claims if these breeds were not around causing serious injury and death due to maulings.



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