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““Today’s decision is a landmark decision for religious freedom,” said Lori Windham, an attorney for Hobby Lobby. “The Supreme Court recognizes American families don’t lose their religious rights” when they run a business.”
But employers can discriminate against their female employees with impunity. Disgusting.
I’m finding that I have more in common with liberals than I thought – It’s now the law of the land – established by SCOTUS. You’ve been fed back your own talking points now live with them.
Dear Bob: Obamacare is the law of the land too.
Glad you agree with that law of the land stuff.
Celtica – not for Hobby Lobby.
Planet: Amazing isn’t that that we accept the SCOTUS decision (even if we disagree) — but the right wing doesn’t when they don’t like the decision….
That’s right, Celtica. I will accept their interpretation even though I do not necessarily agree with it. HL peddles tons of funds to China and they don’t seem to have a conscious about how China uses that money to not follow the same Christian principles. HL is a joke. I will just shake my head and laugh as I walk by their storefront. They won’t be seeing any of my money unless they choose to get that Chinese product out of their stores and go American instead. Fat chance as that kind of decision places profit in the face of principle. The All Mighty dollar wins that one. False idols much?
Oh yeah, the left is really “accepting this”. Get real, every other post on my facebook feed is some whiney liberal crying about something that 95% of them don’t even understand.
Man you are lucky Destro. My Facebook feed is Candy Crush and Farmville requests.
You can and definitely should select the “Ignore all requests/notifications from _______” next time you get a request.
Libby neglected to state that Hobby Lobby already provides health care coverage for its employees and the company’s coverage covers 16 of the 20 contraceptives required under the HSS mandate. They objected to providing four of the 20 required. The real issue is the free exercise of religion that is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution ” Congress shall make no law respecting religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. In Libby’s words ” Disgusting”. What is disgusting is the government’s threat to the free exercise of religion.
Just how does a corporation exercise religion? Does it go to church? Light a mennorah? Take communion? Receive the sacraments?
A corporation should not be allowed religious freedoms, as that is the point of being a corporation. You get to hide behind the corporate shield as a non-person. Now all of a sudden a corporation is able to exercise their religion?
No! It’s preposterous!
Snappy come back, Des.
Libby, you need to understand Hobby Lobby is a closely held family run enterprise. Yesterday’s ruling was specifically focused on these types of family owned entities. In Justice Alito’s words ” A corporation is simply a form of organization used by human beings to achieve desired ends.”
The right of free exercise of religion was further protected in the Religious Freedom of Restoration Act (RFRA) signed into law by Clinton and unanimously approved by both Houses of Congress in 1993. The original ACA did not require all corporations to cover contraception in their health care plans. This mandate was added by Obama after the ACA was signed into law. SCOTUS held that RFRA does cover closely held businesses like Hobby Lobby. Please keep in mind Hobby Lobby already covers 16 of the 20 contraceptives required under the HSS mandate. Again you seem to disregard the facts that the government has no right to dictate how one can practice their religious beliefs. Please read first part of The First Amendment of the Constitution which was upheld in yesterday’s ruling ” Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
Please read the first part yourself. Hobby Lobby is hardly an establishment of religion. It is a craft store.
But I understand SCOTUS has spoken, so what’s done is done. I don’t have to like it anymore than you have to like it’s other rulings.
In Libby’s words ” Hobby Lobby is hardly an establishment of religion. It’s a craft store.” You omitted that they are a closely held entity whose family members are deeply religious. It’s their religious freedom that was upheld in yesterday’s ruling. This individual freedom is protected uder Article 1 of the Constitution. If you feel the government can usurp this right it’s the end of one of the greatest freedoms we have as Americans.
What I think is that Hobby Lobby filed their business as a corporation in order to shield their personal assets. In doing that, they are denied “individual” freedoms. A corporation can not pray, attend mass, receive the sacraments, light a mennorah, read a bible, or any of the other activities associated with religion. It is a legal entity, not an individual.
I hope this will help pierce the corporate shield for Hobby Lobby allowing people to sue it as an individual and attach their personal assets.
I believe you can’t have it both ways. The SCOTUS disagrees. So be it. We’ll see what happens next.
Hobby Lobby supports abortions in China. Gee, they really practice their religious beliefs.
On what day was HL babptized or confirmed? Does HL go to service every Sunday? Must be a huge church! Did they use an oil rig crane to dip HL into the Gulf or something? Don’t you Neocons come crying when a business owner starts implementing Sharia Law. Remember, religious freedom does not just mean the religions you practice. I accept the interpretation and will watch for the fall out. And, in the meantime, I won’t be buying any Chinese made items from HL. I don’t want my money going to State mandated and funded abortions. Nor do I want my money going to HL’s 401K which has $73M invested in the pharms they pretend to be against.
Still sniffing that Ethanol up there Planet? You are getting close to booger type comments. Please feel free to join Celtica and Libby picketing the local Hobby Lobby. I have not seen any Hobby Lobby employees doing it. I guess they are not left wing nut jobs like you are.
No need to picket. What’s done is done. Now we’ll just wait for the fallout. Be careful what you wish for Agent. Praise Allah could be the next thing you hear.
Hobby Lobby will soon be baptized. When it goes under water from being in the red. I hope it smells like the Rio Grande.
That wasn’t a drone flying above your head Agent, those were comments that you don’t understand. They still have the ability to drop bombs though.
Are you a closet Muslim Libby? No wonder you are so anti-Christian. I knew there must be a reason why you jump on Christians at every opportunity.
Yes, Agent. I’m a closet Muslim. Idiot.
51% of all corporations are closely held and represent 52% of GNP. Every heard of Johnson & Johnson?
An idea or suggestion that is wildly unreasonable, illogical, preposterous, idiotic, harebrained, and just dirt-stupid can be considered patently absurd. It is likely that if someone held up a piece of paper serving as a legal instrument and identified it as a person with 1st Amendment freedom of speech rights, most sentient beings would consider the concept absurd; unless they are conservative Supreme Court justices. The only thing more idiotic than ascribing personhood to a legal instrument is asserting it prays, worships, and warrants religious freedom protections; particularly when the corporation legal instrument) will exercise its religious freedom to impose religion on its employees and abridge their 1st and 14th Amendment constitutional rights. / In what should have been the most obvious, and frankly blunt, ruling, the High Court should have informed Hobby Lobby, and all evangelicals, that exercise of religious freedom does not include imposing religion on other Americans. It is not now, and never has been, what religious liberty means, especially when the Greens’ freedom of religion means imposing their religion to harm other Americans. In fact, since religious freedom is being used as a tool to impose religion in various contexts around the country, including when businesses claim religious freedom gives them the right to discriminate against the LGBT community, spelling out what religious freedom really means would have settled a myriad of issues. The Court should have affirm the Constitutional principle that religious liberty is a shield; not a sword that allows evangelicals to impose their beliefs on others. / Amend the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (which was the basis of Hobby Lobby’s successful lawsuit) to specify that corporations are not granted certain protections given to individuals and others or amend the statute in the opposite direction, by adding explicit language protecting individuals from having employers’ religious beliefs imposed on them
I couldn’t agree more, Dennis. Well said.
Yes, I’ve heard of Johnson & Johnson. Ticker symbol JNJ. Hardly an apt comparison. IMHO, publicly traded companies cannot be considered closesly held.
That said, what’s the percentage now? Where did that come from by the way?
On the 8th day, Lord Reagan, said: Let there be AR-15′s and the Death Penalty
A closely held corporation is a corporation in which more than half of the shares are held by fewer than 5 individuals. The other 49.99% can be publicly traded.
A closely held corporation is a corporation in which more than half of the shares are held by fewer than 5 individuals. The other 49.99% can be publicly traded.
but nobody FORCES someone to work for a religiously-affiliated organization. If you work for a place like Hobby Lobby, or a church / synagogue / mosque, chances are you knew the values of the organization before you applied.
Now you can tell me where I can and can not work? When will the discrimination end? I shouldn’t have to follow my employers religious beliefs to have a job.
True, some will not have a choice of employers in their area — but we do as consumers. Boycott with your wallet.
do you spend much money at Hobby Lobby? I’m not sure I’ve ever even been inside one.
Louie, craft stores are to women as hardware stores stores are to men. Hobby Lobby’s prime customer are women. Women who agree with Hobby Lobby will continue to shop there. Women who don’t will not. If Hobby Lobby wishes to alienate 50% of their base customer, they should expect well deserved financial blowback.
that may be the case, Celtica, but it’s Hobby Lobby’s choice. I’m sure they’re aware of the economic implications, otherwise they wouldn’t have made this decision.
It’s like when CVS decided to stop selling tobacco products. It probably pissed off a lot of smokers, and it’s undoubtedly costing CVS millions, but they’ve made a corporate decision to stand for their principle.
In a way, it’s admirable, even if you don’t agree with it. Just don’t shop there anymore. Go to Michael’s instead.
Louie, their stores are very nice and have grown immensely and the employees are nice and helpful. They also own Mardel’s which is a Christian book/supplies store. I insure a contractor who does much of their store construction/remodeling work and they keep him busy running all over the country. I would bet they will continue to do well in the future.
Libby, you are missing the point. Hobby Lobby was started by Christians and employed ONLY Christians at one time. As they grew, they hired others. They don’t “force” anyone to work there, but it is VERY widely known they are a Christian company. If you choose to work there, you choose to work under THEIR rules. No different than any other company. You have absolutely no right, or recourse, to suggest they change their beliefs to fit your own. The Supreme Court agrees they have met every other standard under your President’s Obamacrap law. According to you, it’s “discrimination”. Guess what Libby? That’s how us Christians feel when a company owned offshore is exempt from Obummercare. That’s how we feel when Muslims are allowed to exempt themselves from Owebamacare. Why is it ok for them, but not Christians?
You Liberals are all the same. You are all about equality until one thing doesn’t go your way, then you are all about discrimination. If we don’t like YOUR President (he’s not mine, regardless of where he lives) we are racist. When we don’t agree with YOUR stance on something, we are against whatever you want to claim we are against. The bottom line is the Supreme Court agrees with Hobby Lobby. Get over it. As far as I’m concerned, this is the greatest news from the Supreme Court in ages. If you don’t like it, don’t shop there. THAT is YOUR option. They won’t miss you.
I do accept it, but I think they erred and here’s why.
When you file as a corporation you do so to separate yourself individually from the actions of the corporation. You may shield you assets and liabilities behind the corporate veil.
Corporations do not go to church, they do not pray, take communion, or receive the sacraments. They are not the same as individuals, who are guaranteed freedom of religion under the constitution.
To now say a corporation has religious beliefs is ludicrous. I am not opposed to anyone practicing their religion, Christian or otherwise, but I don’t think Hobby Lobby has any right to force their beliefs on their employees.
Just my opinion. I’m entitled to one. This is the USA you know.
They aren’t forcing their beliefs on their employees. Once again your absolute insanity when it comes to understanding an issues comes to the forefront. You’re delirious in your lunatic view of politics.
Did you get those words from your “Word of the Day” calendar?
I see you’re impressed with my superior lexicon.
@UCT – why go offshore – no need? How many lawmakers are subject to Obumacare?
Uh. All of them.
Bravo uct, we are having so much crap forced down our throat from king obama it’s disgusting. It feels good to see the goods guys win and the constitution being followed. Light will overcome darkness but it will be very challenging over the next 2 1/2 years.
Louie: HL is a religious organization??? I thought it was a craft store. Who knew?
Are you that retarded or willfully stupid that you take out the word “affiliated” from between the words religious and organization?
Are you that retarded as to think a craft store is a religious affiliated organization? It’s a for-profit CORPORATION.
Whoa, fellas. Please don’t use the word retarded as derogatory term. My 13 year old grandson is retarded and one of the greatest people you could have the pleasure of knowing. He’s loving, kind and gentle hearted and wouldn’t hurt a flea. I never thought much about it before he came along but now it hurts to hear it said like that.
I apologize, Perplexed. It will not cross my lips again.
The employees also enjoy their Sunday day off. On the 7th day, the Lord put aside a day of rest.
I’m waiting for any conservative to use the term “judicial activism” but it won’t happen. What they mean by that is, a decision I do not agree with. They’ll all agree with this discrimination. I guess for some, the War on Women continues.
Remember, HL patrons, when you buy that cross that says “made in China” on the back, your money is going straight to State funded abortions over there. Nothing hyppocritical there. What a joke!
Will somebody please explain to me how this constitutes discrimination? This ruling does not say women cannot obtain birth control, it just says that we cannot force other people to pay for it. Why should I or anybody else be forced to pay for insurance for an affliction (not that pregnancy is an affliction) that I don’t want or be forced to pay premiums for others who do want it. And when did all these people become so poor as to not to be able to afford the various cheap methods of birth control they always paid for in the past?
Other corporations are “forced” to pay for it and are obeying the law. Why not Hobby Lobby?
Libby, Because the Supreme Court says that part of the law can not be enforced.
No, that’s not what they said. They said it can’t be forced based on religious reasons. If you don’t have “religious” reasons, you still have to provide birth control.
FFA, did you notice in the picture that the flag was hanging at half mast? Is that because Obamacare as passed is dead?
Libby, you are making yourself look like an idiot. The SC said that *closely held private* corporations can’t be forced to pay for it.
I know what it says. Just what did I say that was contrary?
The way you make it sound is that anybody can just be like, “Nope, totally religious.” and they’re instantly exempt.
From a law blog I follow:
The first reactions from other news sources overread Hobby Lobby significantly. The Court makes clear that the government can provide coverage to the female employees. And it strongly suggests it would reject broad religious claims to, for example, discriminate against gay employees.
The Court says that RFRA requires the Govt to provide closely-held corporate objectors the same accommodation it already provides nonprofit organization objectors.
Kennedy’s opinion emphasizes that in this particular case, a mechanism for accommodating employers is “already in place” so that the majority opinion does not require the Govt to create “a whole new program or burden on the Govt”
Here is a further attempt at qualification: This decision concerns only the contraceptive mandate and should not be understood to mean that all insurance mandates, that is for blood transfusions or vaccinations, necessarily fail if they conflict with an employer’s religious beliefs.
Here is more qualification: It does not provide a shield for employers who might cloak illegal discrimination as a religious practice.
No, the above items are in the SCOTUS document. Therefore, anyone trying to use this case as proof that they can do what ever they want, the above items have been carved out.
Yeah, well we thought the law was clear on the birth control issue, too. And it’s not.
Your first hint should have been a politician says “We have to pass it to see whats in it”
It was not clear to her then.
Another clue should have been a politician from IL.
None the less, we all have to accept it and because we are just “We the People”, no one in DC gives a damn what we think.
Hobby Lobby doesn’t have to accept it, but my employer does. How is that right?
Libby – none of this is right. This is the most divisive law passed in my life time. Even you have spoken against the law.
FFA, I think we have now seen a lot of Obamacare now and we still don’t like it. Progressives always think they know what is best for America and in this case, they jammed it down the country’s throat. They can never admit they were wrong and will attack anyone who has a different opinion. Guess, what! Their governance in all areas from A to Z is the worst in our adult lifetimes and their credibility is non-existent.
To further illustrate how bad this law is – my new born back in March is still not added on to her policy. She and I have done everything Healthcare.gov has told us to. We have done everything Blue Cross has told us to do. Most have been done 2x. And still – no coverage on a qualifying event.
They should have struck down the entire law.
Slippery slope, SCOTUS. What next, religious freedom from not paying taxes?
In any event, women can vote with their wallets on whether they agree or disagree with Hobby Lobby — both as consumers and employees.
Nice try, but:
The Court also makes clear that there is no RFRA basis for getting out of paying income or social security taxes. – See more at: http://live.scotusblog.com
Hey, now, don’t shoot the messenger. I’m just providing additional information without any of my views. If you want to read the SCOTUS decision for yourself, have at it:
I just happen to follow a law blog that has pulled quotes from the decision, which I have shared. I am not saying I agree or disagree, I’m just telling you what the court ACTUALLY said.
Hey KY. SCOTUS said it was a tax, not a fine. I wonder what they are going to do on taxes when 2 million enrolled and falsified their income to get more subsidies>
KY, do you know who signed RFRA into law? Bill Clinton of course.
Agent, I thought all Democrats were atheist and hated Christians…
HOPEFULLY Celtica. I am tired of giving them money for crap they think is important. How many millions is he asking for another round in Iraq? The Ukraine?
Dick Cheney wants even more to be spent.
Hey FFA. Obama said he wasn’t going to send boots on the ground. He is now up to about a thousand “advisors”, but we know they aren’t boots on the ground, right?
Local ABC news reported last night combat ready troops are on the way…
Dumb ass should have finished the job or we should just stay home.
He could have just sent up the drones, blew these guys up and cut off their supply lines. Instead, he sends over advisors to do some more training of Iraqi forces that had been trained for several years????
I’d say let them go ahead and kill each other if it weren’t for Iraq being right next door.
If he sent drones you would be complaining, if he doesn’t send drones you would be complaining. He’s black, you hate black people, ei ei oh Dagnabit.
Stupid as shit don’t know the difference between black and white.
Libby says: I’d say let them go ahead and kill each other if it weren’t for Iraq??? being next door. This is Iraq dummy. Maybe you meant Iran being next door. Your fingers were ahead of your brain, again.
Yes, Agent. Of course I meant Iran. But thanks for pointing that out for me.
I agree with the Supreme Court that ANY form of contraception should be disallowed. Much the same as procreation (or any sexual activity for that matter), prevention of pregnancy is an active choice made by two consenting adults who both know the consequences of their actions. If they don’t want to have a child as a result of their amorous union, they should take whatever steps they need to take PRIOR to conception but the government SHOULD NOT be involved.
By the way, I do understand that this applies to organizations with religious objections to contraceptives. I faile to adequately state that earlier.
In all fairness, there’s more to contraception than just preventing pregnancy…Birth Control pills are also used for women’s health issues (which, as a guy, I’m not getting into much detail about). I wonder if they’ve specified that they’ll be paid for if deemed a medical necesseity?
Louie, Hobby Lobby provides birth control in their health plan. What they disagree with is the mandate that they provide abortifacients for their employees (morning after pill).
Louie, the Doc code the Medical Necessity for Non Birth Control – even though its still the same medication – issues differently. So, when the “Claim” gets processed at the Ins Company it will be billed as Medically Necessary not elective Birth Control.
By the way, the court already noted that the Feds could provide the coverage just like it’s being done for non-profit religious organizations.
So those on the right would rather shift their burden to the Government? More corporate welfare! Hypocrites.
I would rather everyone take care of their own. I did. you did. So did everyone in our generation. You play. You Pay.
Agreed, but you know how it is. It’s just like those Cialis commercials. One minute you are painting a fence together or cleaning out the attic spinning some records, or she’s hopping around in one heel like a dog that broke its leg and then BAM! you are reenacting the Kama Sutra. Finally the both of you are in separate bath tubs on a cliff in Texico. You need to be ready for those moments and birth control does just that. I just don’t know how to protect the people at the bottom of the cliff when everything comes crashing down.
Libby, your Liberal bias is showing. Just a week or so ago you were posting on here how all Liberals are not equal. You’ve proven AGAIN that you are nothing more than a liberal troll. How many names do you go by on here? It’s more than one. Look at “Libby’s” posts. Anyone else notice how “she” always has the same amount of likes and the same “names” supporting her, all within just a few minutes of her post? Yeah, that’s legit. lol
Huh? Do you honestly think I have time to post under more than one name? LOL!!!
Besides, why would I? That’s just stupid. All the same “names” support me because they think as I do. Just as all the same names support you.
You neocons see conspiracies everywhere, don’t you? LOL!
Seriously? Get a life uct. This is the IJ, not some widely read political or media site.
You are acting like this comment section matters to everyone (in the country) and affects policy decisions.
Although I agree with your overall sentiment, the Supreme Court does not disagree with contraception but whether or not a closely held corporation has an exemption based on religious exemptions.
Let’s be clear and understand that the issue in contention for HL is what is considered contraception. HL’s belief is that the morning pill is an abortifacient (of which it is) and NOT contraception. All of the disputes on this blog will not change the Reality that the Supreme Court has ruled and HL’s position was validated by 5 of the 9 SC members. It is finished.
Captain Planet, you are correct in that you can speak with your wallet by not shopping at HL…but I doubt you did before. As for me and my household, we will continue to support HL and any organization fighting for their religious liberties (including Chick Fil-a).
I’m sure there are enough people who will shop at HL to keep it going, perhaps even keep it growing. So many people don’t care about the politics of a business and just buy what they like. Others will support the owner’s stance and start shopping there.
Riiiiiggghhht…..so you’re saying 100% of the time, the woman chooses and consents. Because a man would never force himself on a woman. I don’t know what planet you live on, but definitely not the same one as me. Take off your rose-colored glasses, Polyanna!
Thank Goodness! HA!
So, “christian” owners can have an aversion to contraception that they deem to be “abortifacts” but they don’t mind selling cheap crap from China. The same China where women are forced into late term abortions….baby girls are “mercy killed” and they only allow one child…Great christian values! Next they will require christian burkas be worn because they won’t want to see a woman’s legs. Notice that they didn’t complain about providing viagra in their prescription drug coverage? I wonder how generous their maternity leave is?
The GOP war on women continues… should be an interesting election year!
For clarity, HL allows contraception in their health plan. Nan, in regard to your comment of what ‘Christians owners…deem to be “abortifacts”‘, it is not so. Abortifacient is defined as to facilitate the termination of a pregnancy already conceived and not contraception. Contraception is the prevention of conception. It is not a matter of what Christians claim, it is a matter of fact.
Let’s not digress on tangential subjects like purchasing items from China as a non-Christian act. What is in this arena is whether or not an organization is protected by the Constitution based on their religious beliefs. By the way, China has a large Christian underground church and expected to be the largest Christian country within the next decade.
However, there is a legitimate argument to be made about purchasing from China.
There seems to be a disconnect for these owners. If their belief is so strong they cannot allow their insurance company to provide the prescription, then how can they justify sending money to a county that practices strict birth control including abortions? In both cases, they are a step removed from the process; yet, one is ok and the other is not.
Funny how the Liberals want to push the ‘made in china’ button here, but didn’t want to push it when Clinton passed his bills ruining manufacturing and trucking in the USA by sending those jobs to Mexico. NAFTA and GATT anyone? Anyone?
I wouldn’t have an issue with the Liberal stance if, for just ONCE, they didn’t argue against their own point. Liberals are all fine and dandy with things being sent overseas provided it isn’t their job. If something being made in China is your only arguing point, you need help. Look around, thanks to the Democrats, what isn’t being made in China is being made by a Mexican in the USA. Time to put on your big boy (and supposedly girl) pants and quit whining. Maybe your beloved President can sign an Executive Order declaring HL must pay. After all, “What difference does it make?”
The bottom line is Liberals hate Christianity. You call us racist for not liking, nor respecting, the POTUS. You try and blow the smoke up our rear-ends and say this is about “women’s rights”. No, it’s 100% about you not liking anything that doesn’t fit your belief entirely. Tough luck this time. Maybe the Liberals should have read what was in Obummercare before passing it.
Last I knew, Mexico was not overseas.
How does sending jobs to Mexico equate to birth control & abortions in China?
It actually doesn’t matter to me if they sell things made in China or if jobs have been sent to Mexico. So, there is no reason for me to push any buttons. I’m just stating the obvious since some people can’t see the forest for the trees.
Mexico is just south of Texico and both are separate nations. Unfortunately this is not taught in charter schools or evangelical schools.
KY, there is also a legitimate argument for buying American if there is a choice between the two. That keeps American jobs going. We don’t have to buy Chinese all the time. Half their products may contain lead or other chemicals and are harmful, kids toys in particular.
I guess covering Viagra for single men is Godly then?
you mean…BONER PILLS???
c’mon…there are only 3 1/2 more days left in the week. Everyone try and lighten up just a little.
Hey Louie, perhaps we should lighten it up in the middle of all these vitriolic posts.
An elderly couple were having dinner one night. The husband said – Martha, we have been married 50 years and there is something I have to know. Have you ever been unfaithful to me? Martha replied -I have to be honest with you. I have been unfaithful 3 times. The first time was when we were about to lose the house because we couldn’t pay the mortgage. I went to the banker and the next day the loan was extended. The next time was when you got sick and couldn’t afford the surgery and I went to see the doctor one night. If you recall, he didn’t charge for the surgery. The third time, remember when you were running for President of your golf club, and needed 53 more votes?
that was awesome
That is completely unchristian. I hope Pastor Olsteen doesn’t see this post, you may need to thithe 20%
Is there a ruling on that too? Is it burried somewhere in the 2700 page law with thousands of revisions?
In other ironic news: ISIS claims foundation of caliphate titled “Islamic State”…comparison at 11….
As a Christian, I’m extremely offended by your generalization of all of us. We don’t all want to “oppress women”. However, there are some branches of Christianity that take their faith seriously enough that they don’t want to support ideas which don’t conform to their faith. It’s no different from a Muslim or a Jewish person eating food that was prepared to their relgious specifications. It’s their CHOICE.
Vote with your wallet. If you don’t agree with an organization’s views, don’t support it. Nobody is forcing you to shop at Hobby Lobby.
Oh, get off your high horse Louie. Nobody’s forcing YOU to use birth control anymore than an Orthodox Jew to eat non-Kosher food. It’s a matter of allowing the employee the CHOICE – not the employer. It’s downright un-American.
you’ve never met my wife. or my kids.
What does that have to do with anything?
They’re the ones forcing me to use birth control.
It was a joke. Sorry.
I see. I might have to agree. We don’t need more misogynists in the world.
IT. WAS. A. JOKE.
C’mon, Libby…I know you have a sense of humor!
Yes, I do. When something is funny. Try again. I promise I’ll laugh next time.
You should probably keep your day job. ;)
I laughed. It was funny.
I think my concern is that with religion being completely made up, what’s to keep the imaginary sky-fairy crowd from pulling anything else from their magic rear.Good to see the American Taliban is alive and well.
we get it, John…you hate religion.
We hate people that USE their religion.
Religion’s fine, it’s just religious people I have the problem with.
Funny how “Farmer John” pops in to defend Libby. Then, 35 minutes later in the post below, Libby pops in, then Farmer John again only three minutes later. This is a continuation of other threads where “Libby” is insulted, then other names suddenly appear to defend her. Hmmmm….. I’m willing to bet “Libby” the Liberal has more names on this board than marbles in a jar.
You’d lose the bet uct. With as often as I post, I don’t have time to sign in under another name.
Why do you find it that hard to believe there is someone out there that would “defend” me? Besides, they’re not defending me. They just agree with whatever it was I said.
uct needs a foil hat, he must have lost his.
You have got to be kidding me?!? Why would you even think this? Yes, there is more than one liberal on this website. Get over it.
It’s a great victory for Religious Freedom and exciting to see that the majority of the Supreme Court Justices understands that Religious Freedom must not be undermined on the pretense of aiding women. In fact the real physical and societal dangers of contraception need to be exposed and publicized for the harmful consequences to women, men and society as a whole.
You’ve GOT to be kidding. People have religious convictions. Corporations do not.
Contraception is not a bad thing. There are so many people who should not have children, my eldest child included. Also, many married couples don’t want kids. There is no reason to throw out all contraception just because you don’t like it.
KY, I would have thought you understood that this ruling did not throw out all contraception. You did all that research on the ruling and then made this statement????? HL provides 16 different means of contraception. Sounds pretty comprehensive to me. I do agree that contraception should have been used long before booger was conceived. Perhaps he was an accident.
KY jw made no mention of the ruling in her post and was only reponding to Peggy’s comment against contraception, “In fact the real physical and societal dangers of contraception need to be exposed and publicized for the harmful consequences to women, men and society as a whole.” Peggy was referring to all contraception.
Please try to follow the bouncing ball better. It is not going that fast.
I am very happy that your parents did not use any contraception, whether or not you were an accident. You bring much joy to my life by making me feel MUCH better about myself!!
Agent, Ron is correct. I was replying to Peggy O. Walsh’s statement condemning all contraception.
KY, you should have addressed your post to Peggy, not just make a general statement. Who knows who is replying to whom on this blog unless they are identified?
It’s called “follow the bouncing ball”. KY jw obviously clicked the reply link under Peggy O Walsh’s post. If you do not understand how this works, then STOP posting.
Ron, you should really try to keep up. Many posts on this blog appear 8 comments below no matter where you hit the reply button. Many don’t have a reply button to click on so you have to go to the nearest one.
Why can you not just accept the fact that you made a mistake and apologize to KY jw for misinterpreting her post? Every time you are proven wrong, you try to put blame elsewhere or find fault in someone else. I thought personal responsibility was one of the core tenets of Conservatism. Apparently your are not as Conservative as you think.
Praise be!! Let’s all now start our own churches. Include all of our personal assets into the church and evade our taxes. Let’s take money from addicts and “save them from their vices” then recruit them to dunk them in a dirty river then make them give 10% for the minimum wage job. Setting up my Church DBA today. “Big White Mega Church at the Alamo”. Can I get an AMEN?!?!?!
The shocking thing to me is that Notre Dame lost their Religious Claim. Aside from actual Churches (what ever the religion calls them) there is no organization more religious then Notre Dame. Apparently, Hobby Lobby is.
FFA – the problem is that Notre Dame was also against the Feds providing birth control. From The New American http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/17729-court-rules-against-notre-dame-on-contraception-mandate
“Notre Dame had sought the injunction against the contraceptive requirement pending the results of a lawsuit it filed in May 2012 challenging an alternative plan offered by the Obama administration that offers cosmetic cover intended to assuage the consciences of institutions that object to the Affordable Care Act mandate on religious grounds. The compromise plan requires the administrator of Notre Dame’s employee plan, Meritain Health Inc., and the insurer for students, Aetna Inc., to pay for birth control coverage and establishes a method to reimburse those entities.”
Hobby Lobby just didn’t want to pay themselves, they didn’t argue that the government also couldn’t provide the coverage.
Thanks for that distinction jw. I was very confused on that point.
I had to look it up. I completely forgot the Notre Dame case and was just as confused.
“The administration says contraceptive coverage is crucial to women’s health and economic well-being, arguing that almost half of all pregnancies are unintended.”
Where did they get that information? I think women are smarter and more careful than this. I’m so sick of women being painted as a group that is so desperately in need of guidance from the government or a religious organization.
Last time I checked, condoms were available for purchase in nearly every drugstore and discount store in America. Why is it always up to the woman to be the one to use contraception? Birth control pills may prevent pregnancy, but they do not prevent STDs. Maybe it’s time for women to make their partners MAN UP to prevent both STDs and unwanted pregnancy.
Yes, they are avaialbe at nearly every drugstore. Where’s my ACA Mandated coverage that says my employer has to subsidize my purchase/use of a condom?
All this fuss for a prescription that may cost someone $9.00; $12.00 or $20.00 a month? Hobby Lobby never told their employees they can’t but it? Where is the personal responsibility? I always provided by own. I never in my wildest dream expected that to be the responsibility of my employer. What an entitlement society we have become!! Don’t work there or buy there if you don’t like it. That is your choice. That is certainly what I do when I don’t like a company’s stance on an issue. Grow up America!
You are completely missing the point. It’s not the employers responsibility to PROVIDE you with birth control. Only to provide access to it through your health insurance like they do all other medical prescriptions. They are discriminating against women and of course all the neocons think that’s okey-dokey. It’s sickening.
Who pays the Employee Only cost on the Health Insurance Libby? Most groups I have seen is the Employer paying for Employee Only and the employee picking up family cost if they do that. Everything has to be rated and if a company employs several hundred women, the cost has to be factored in. Obamacare has already been proven to be much higher in cost than advertised. It will only keep getting higher the further down the road it goes. Time to start reigning it in and get rid of all those stupid mandates.
I pay an employee only contribution. The days of your insurance being provided at no cost to you were over long before Obamacare.
If the company employs several hundred women, how many will be of child-bearing age? How many of those will want to use contraception? And if they decide to, what is the rx co-pay they would have to pay?
I’m sure the cost of providing birth control to those of child-bearing age will offset some of the charge for maternity coverage.
From what I hear, it’s a wash.
You made my point. Why should any company be forced to carry coverage applying to all women employees when a lot of them are past child bearing years? In the law, it should have been made optional and a box provided to check yes or no, but no, we have been “Mandated” to cover all. Why should a young man be forced to carry birth control coverage? No wonder rates are sky high for young people.
But Agent, you still have failed to acknowledge that there is NO additional premium charge for providing the coverage. I have pointed this out to you time and time again but you refuse to believe it.
Now agent, your just taking something Libby floated in an earlier forum and putting your name on it… Make it optional just like maternity should be.
BTW, if i recall correctly, we all agreed with that.
The last time I checked pregnancy prevention is not a sickness. I agree. The free market should handle this one. Hobby Lobby chooses to also be closed on Sundays. Are you going to make them open just in case others can’t get there Mon-Sat? I hate to break it to ya but I think they are going to be just fine.
Have you ever been pregnant? Felt like a sickness to me.
So your children are diseases that make you sick?
Please share your above post with them. Don’t worry, their mental health claims for therapy will be included in their new ACA policy.
As someone posted before, some people shouldn’t have children.
It was her you dufus. And it was a joke. Of course, coming from a guy you wouldn’t have the faintest clue what it’s like to be pregnant.
InsGuy ~ Yes, my children know how much I enjoyed pregnancy.
By the way, that was me that said some people shouldn’t have children.
Ask a single mother making $7.50 per hour if $9 is a burden. The burden of paying out of pocket for contraception has now unfairly shifted to women whose bosses’ religious beliefs conflict with their own, …/An intrauterine device, a very reliable form of long-term contraception that is implanted into the uterus, is particularly expensive for women to have to pay for out of pocket. / It bears note in this regard that the cost of an IUD is nearly equivalent to a month’s full-time pay for workers earning the minimum wage
Ask a 51 yr old man that paid for his own through his entire life time if its fair to start paying again.
Ask a business man if its ok for the govt to but into private industry.
Ask the feds if Illinois politicians are on the level.
FFA – just how much are you paying for birth control? I want to know that because you continue to jump up and down about it and I’m not even convinced there is any difference in premium between providing it or not.
Nothing any more. I have no idea how much I spent on it over the years. I kicked my group to the curb. The renewal came in at least 30% higher then the year before. I am now raising three children under the age of ten and do not need any more cost – weather it be nickles and dimes or dollars to 100″s of dollars added on.
My parent eviction notice went out last week. Now throw 1/5 of that cost on my shoulders.
When is enough enough?
It doesn’t cost more to include birth control. It actually costs less.
Please find another reason for being against it. This one won’t fly.
Protecting women’s rights, according to the Court, isn’t a good enough reason for the government to force a business corporation, at least a privately held one like chain craft store Hobby Lobby, to include birth control in its insurance contrary to the business owner’s wishes. / The Court’s decision in Hobby Lobby isn’t a surprise. The Roberts Court has been largely hostile to the rights of women — allowing greater restrictions on abortion, restricting their ability to sue for workplace discrimination, and limiting the scope of family leave laws. Meanwhile, the data show that the Roberts Court is the most business-friendly Supreme Court in nearly a century. Just as Citizens United expanded the rights of business corporations to speak about political issues and enabling them to drown out the voices of We the People — Hobby Lobby has given businesses another powerful tool to fight against regulation. Hobby Lobby’s religious rights enable the firm to ignore the voices of women who wish to enjoy the health benefits from controlling reproduction. / If the Court’s ruling is read to permit challenges to laws barring discrimination against LGBT people, Hobby Lobby will be the Arizona law on steroids. It wouldn’t apply in one state but across the nation. / So while a business corporation can’t go to church, fast on Yom Kippur, or travel to Mecca for Ramadan, it can still go to court and, on the basis of religious freedom, demand to be exempted from the law that applies to everyone else. Today, women are the victim. Tomorrow, it could be LGBT people. Indeed, after Hobby Lobby, every person is at risk. Everyone, that is, except the corporate person, my friend.
Please see above the carve-outs provided in the SCOTUS opinion. Many of your fears have been addressed. Again, this is a very limited scope ruling.
Sure sounds like you’re defending it, KY.
Sounds to me like she is just providing information.
Isn’t this fun FFA? KY dared to provide info and Libby jumped right down her throat. If KY deviates 1% from Libby’s point of view, it is the wrong thing to do.
Well agent, one thing holds true across party lines – we are all sore losers.
There you go again butting into Libby and KY jw’s conversation.
Put your reading glasses on Ron. I was talking to FFA, not KY or Libby.
Then tell FFA to butt out of their conversation. Either it is OK to butt into other people’s conversations or it’s not.
You two can leave me out of this battle. I have nothing to do with it.
In this case, I am neither defending or opposing. I haven’t made up my mind yet.
I just want to counter all the misinformation that has been flooding the media. It irritates you, Libby, when Agent misreads or misinterprets what you say. It irritates me when someone misrepresents what happened.
I admit it, I’m a SCOTUS junkie. I go to law blogs and read opinions (when they aren’t too long). I find the puzzle of why they do what they do fascinating.
How did we misinterpret what happened? SCOTUS allowed an exemption from the law for corporations based on religious beliefs of their owners.
Did I get that right? If so, I contend (and always have) that a corporation is not a person. It goes against the very nature of filing as a corporation – to hide your personal assets behind the corporate veil. To now say a corporation has religious beliefs is beyond ludicrous.
This is just another way for the moral majority to but their religion into our lives. They don’t want governement butting into theirs, but they certainly don’t mind butting into other people’s religious views. It’s hypocrital and wrong.
If my employer must abide by the mandate, then all public companies should have to abide by the mandate. Or else there should be no such mandate.
As long as we are talking about exemptions, how about several thousand exemptions granted to companies and unions after this disaster was passed.
don’t forget the “Chamber of Coerce”
So many people are forgetting the part where the coverage will be provided, just not funded by HL.
The following is from http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/06/court-rules-in-favor-of-for-profit-corporations-but-how-broadly-in-plain-english/
Okay, “the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) is a federal law that prohibits the government from imposing a substantial burden on someone’s ability to practice his religion unless that burden advances an important government interest and does so in the least restrictive way possible.”
The court used the argument that not allowing the corporation to use the RFA “would require the companies to choose between two unpalatable options: “either give up the right to seek judicial protection of their religious liberty or forgo the benefits, available to their competitors, of operating as corporations.” ”
So, you can see the logic behind their decision. Now, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with their conclusions. Understanding does not require agreement. :)
I think that is a distinction without a difference. Why should the government have to pay for it? My employer must provide it and HL should have to, too.
Otherwise get rid of the mandate all together. This “religious” argument is just a way to circumvent the law.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg Writes Scathing 19-Page Dissent In Birth Control Case (excerpts) “In a decision of startling breadth, the Court holds that commercial enterprises, including corporations, along with partnerships and sole proprietorships, can opt out of any law (saving only tax laws) they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs… / The burden of paying out of pocket for contraception has now unfairly shifted to women whose bosses’ religious beliefs conflict with their own, …/An
intrauterine device, a very reliable form of long-term contraception that is implanted into the uterus, is particularly expensive for women to have to pay for out of pocket. / It bears note in this regard that the cost of an IUD is nearly equivalent to a month’s full-time pay for workers earning the minimum wage… /The requirement carries no command that Hobby Lobby or Conestoga purchase or provide the contraceptives they find objectionable… /Instead, it calls on the companies covered by the requirement to direct money into undifferentiated funds that finance a wide variety of benefits under comprehensive health plans…./a woman’s decision to claim birth control benefits in consultation with her doctor is in no way compelled by her employer and is not equivalent to a moral action on the part of her employer…. / Should an employee of Hobby Lobby or Conestoga share the religious beliefs of the Greens and Hahns, she is of course under no compulsion to use the contraceptives in question… / Even if Hobby Lobby and Conestoga were substantially burdened by the requirement…the government has shown that providing no-cost birth control to women is a compelling interest in public health and women’s wellbeing. / Those interests are concrete, specific, and demonstrated by a wealth of empirical evidence… /To recapitulate, the mandated contraception coverage enables women to avoid the health problems unintended pregnancies may visit on them and their children.”
“…the health benefits from controlling reproduction.”
Really, how so? Does the pill help your blood pressure, make you less likely get get breast or ovarian cancer, cause liver damage, etc…?
while there may be benefits from controlling reproduction, are they truly related to the health of the person?
They can be. Many women have died in childbirth. Many have high risk for pregnancy. There’s also a little thing called rape that necessitates access to the morning after pill. It happens more than you’d like to admit. Regardless, a woman should be able to make the CHOICE about her reproductive options and not her employer.
Libby, what your saying is all true. Yes, women should the the right to choose. This ruling did not infringe on their right to choose.
All it does is have her pay for it on her own. Much like if I went to buy a car and I wanted a Mercedes but could only afford a Focus. I have want. I have needs. Just because I want the Benz dont mean someone else should cover the cost difference.
Hey FFA, you may be able to get a good deal on a GM car or truck right now. They are up to 21 million+ recalls for defects. Obama may have to bail them out again and save some more union jobs.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one, FFA. I don’t see why HL doesn’t have to pay when everyone else does.
Libby, that we do… (Agree to disagree).
To all, Have a great holiday! Taking an extended week end with the Gr Kids at the lake… Gonna come back water logged with a new attitude (hopefully).
Libby, many women (ppl) die in car accidents. Does that mean it’s OK for the government to mandate that, in the interest of our own well-being, we no longer are allowed to buy a car? And if we are and choose to do so, should our employer be required to help pay for it?
This all about the MANDATE and the MONEY.
Again, a MAN commenting on what is good and not good for women. I wish you’d all just shut up.
Roe v Wade was decided by 7 out of 9 MEN…..And a lot of women, including myself, agree with the Hobby Lobby decision – so this isn’t always a “men vs women” type of thing.
I didn’t say it was. But I don’t appreciate a man commenting on women’s health issues or on the topic of choice. Roe v Wade gave us the freedom of choice, but now the right-wing evangelicals want to take it away.
If you do not choose to use the morning after pill or to have an abortion, then don’t. But don’t take away my right to do so if I see fit.
The right talks a great game about personal freedoms when it suits their agenda (Hobby Lobby) but are quick to try to take those freedoms away (abortion, gay marriage, equal rights, etc.) when it’s something they don’t agree with.
Nobody forces you into an abortion or to marry a person of the same sex, but if someone else wants to do that what’s it to you?
Libby…. Its not like women dont comment on what good / bad for men now is it??? That knife cuts both ways.
When have I made health care choices for you, FFA?
Well, not having children could keep your blood pressure low. Your bank account might even look better. Which, in turn, could make you healthier. See, there are health benefits!
I hate to disappoint you Libby, but I know a lot of right wing Catholics who are not Evangelicals who liked this ruling as well. One of my Catholic golf buddies wife works for Hobby Lobby and she thinks they are wonderful. Get off your attack against Evangelicals. They are good people.
Well, you and I will just have to disagree about how great Evangelicals are, Agent. I think most are hypocrital nincumpoops.
Good for nothing you mean. They are addicts that are doing to leg work for the Koch Brothers and sharin’ the “Good Word”. There’s a reason why Evangelical “Churches” scour rehab facilities and AA meetings, let alone host them for new recruits. The more “boots on the ground” they have, the more they can get their agenda across. Most of them have no depth perception of the issues they are proselytizing for. They are just told they will receive the equivalent of 72 virgins for doing so. Much of this lower crust will rely on Quasi-Mega-Churches like Hobby Lobby for careers, simply because their creationist education did not prepare them for real life skills. By continuing this trend, they are committing several sins such as sodomizing themselves.
The spin on this issue is amazing. This is a huge victory for companies that have a religious objection to PAY FOR contraceptives their employees. This is not an issue of availability, simply payment. Contraceptives can still be bought by employees, just not funded through their employers.
That’s just not true. It doesn’t cost them more to provide the coverage. It costs MORE not to cover it. Next argument?
This case was not about ALL birthcontrol. Only a very few specific items. These items were those that are intended to end a pregnancy AFTER conception has occurred, not prevent conception from occurring. This means birth control pills are just fine and will continue to be provided along with MANY other forms of birthcontrol. Hobby Lobby was not arguing against all forms of birth control.
This article is more specific as to what types.
As for not selling items made in China, good luck finding a retailer that does not.
TxLady – this ruling is across the board regardless of what Hobby Lobby does or does not do.
No, that is not correct, Libby. you need to research this some and see what exact forms of birth control this was about.
In addition, should a person decide they need the morning after pill, and their company insurance does not provide it, they can pay for it out of pocket, just like so many do for other items that are essential to people’s health, but may not be 100% covered by their insurance, or for that matter, covered at all. It is out there, it is available, simply pay for it yourself, coupons are available, or go to your local planned parenthood. I am sure they will be happy to give you what you desire. There are plenty of ways to get this.
What the article says is that corporations can opt out of providing coverage for contraception based on religious reasons. I know what the HL suit was about, but this ruling applies to more than just the HL suit.
So this goes far beyond just the abortifacts that HL was resisting. I believe SCOTUS was wrong in their ruling, as corporations do not have religious beliefs. They can’t pray, go to church, take communion, etc. This is just a way to subvert the law.
You are correct TxLady and I stand corrected. Thank you for setting me straight.
Still don’t agree with the ruling, though.
this is not as much about religion as it is about an employer being forced to pay for his employees recreational sex. why not make the employer pay for a catchers mask that the employee uses on the weekends, on the pretext that it is for his/her “health and safety”?
womens rights doesn’t mean an employer has to buy your contraceptives. that’s stupid.
Wow Bob, By the time I logged onto this article, already 40 comments. Can we shoot for 300-400 before the week is up? I find it hilarious that the left wingers on this blog get so worked up about this. No one ever said women couldn’t use contraception on their own. We just didn’t want the employers to have to fund it on the group plans. By the way, I have not seen any protests from Hobby Lobby women employees. Some have advocated boycotting Hobby Lobby. We saw how that worked out for the boycotting of Chick Fil A on their stance on gay marriage. Sales skyrocketed. Allright Libs, please boycott Mardel’s as well since the same people own them as well. They would appreciate the boost.
The employer is not paying for it. They are only including it as a benefit in their health insurance plan the same as any other prescription.
And newflash, Bob. Many women use birth control for more than recreational sex. It’s called family planning and being responsible.
If the benefit is increased, the cost of the benefit increases.
Something for nothing???? Dont exist. I dont believe everything I see/hear/read. My parents taught me better then that especially when there is political gain to be had by it. Plenty of politics in this one.
This decision should be Ball Game on this topic. Its hear to stay – Like it or not!
Now, when are we expecting the other case to be decided?
Did you even read the article before disbelieving it? It makes perfect sense why it’s cheaper to include it than not to include it. And it’s backed up by studies and peer reviews.
Really, FFA, you can be so trying sometimes.
No, I didnt bother. None of it is relevant. What is relevant is what the Supreme Ct Ruled today. The article just dont matter. Nothing can be done to change the ruling.
As a general rule, I dont read anything that cant be used to inform my clients / prospect.
Take for example what everyone writes about Bain Capitol. From what I seen street level, they save jobs. They save American People from eating bad debt. Granted, its just one that I stumbled across, but if, at the street level, they are saving jobs, they deserve a lot of credit. They are doing more then OBama is doing.
So, for me anyways, best proof is what I can see at the street level.
What a narrow view of the world.
So FFA, what did you think about the ruling the Supremes made against the unions in Illinois. SEIU thought they had it made charging dues to health workers who didn’t want to be in the union. Unions are worthless political machines now and could really care less about their workers.
Libby, Ive been lied to way too many times by politicians.
So, let me quote a famous Democrat
“Blind faith in your leader can get your killed”.
A politician didn’t write that paper. If you’re not interested in educating yourself, that’s OK with me. Me? I like to stay informed.
I need to pass along relevant info to my clients.
Again, I believe what I see.
Would it not be relevent information to let them know it costs them less to include birth control in their group health plan?
If I had any groups left, I would agree with you. OBama Care took that Line of Business off my table for now anyways…
Even if the article is true, what the point anyways? Average Joe / jane working stiff dont mean shit to the politicians. What would / could change? Just another round of clients bitching about the govt? Dont I do that enough? Especially these IL bred & trained politicians?
Had an appointment on South West Side of Chicago this am. Business customer. They dont like oBama either. Smart Business folks.
Libby – Didnt say he was a politician, just that he is a dem and he is famous… Regardless of his politics, I will still buy a ticket to see him.
Would you go see Ted Nuget???
I’ve seen Ted Nugent.
And he is NOT a democrat.
Ted is not a Democrat… The Boss is. Still love both their music regardless of their politics.
I’ve seen road kill, heard the sound of a deaf person trying to speak out loud, and I know what a cat in heat smells like, these are all characteristics of Ted Nugent. I could only imagine what the rest of the senses would be like. Tastes like water from the Rio Grande and feels like a 10 year old heavily used and damp jock strap that’s never been washed. I’ll leave that up to the Neo-Con gun nuts that would fellatiate him on a hot 100 degree day in Texico after a month of no showers.
I’m sure their coverage does include Viagra for 2 reasons:
1 – it’s for men and 2 – it helps men to procreate, which is what the religious right wants. They seem to think you should have as many children as God deems to give you. Never mind whether or not you can support them. Men don’t have to hang around and take care of the children if they don’t want to.
Viagara has traditionally been covered because the condition it is prescribed for is a medical condition. Not being pregnant is NOT a medical condition. If someone were receiving BCPs for a skin condition or medical problems, insurance companies have traditionally paid for those long before Obamacare mandated it.
Not being able to get it up is a medical condition? I’m not a doctor, but I think you’ll live.
That’s what I was thinking.
You know what is going to go up, Libby? US percentage of abortions. Yes, women COULD pay for the drugs on their own. It only takes one month’s salary to do so. That, and let’s not forget the fact that birth control is not always used simply to prevent pregnancy (notice I said prevent pregnancy and not abort a baby). In my case with our youngest, my wife was put on birth control so she could start ovulating again. It worked and we brought our second daughter into the world.
*one month’s average salary of a female HL worker
You’re right, Captain. A woman that does not want a baby would take birth control to prevent it. Without that option (including the morning after pill) they will just terminate the pregnancy.
Can someone tell me how the morning after pill is an abortifact if you can’t even tell if you’re pregnant the morning after???
To your question, Libby – sounds like crickets to me. Or, perhaps this is that the sound of the Neocons realizing that, WHOA, you’re right.
Neocons admitting Libby was right?!? The sky really is falling!
Just like houses, fertilizer plants, and floors in TX.
So a woman is not pregant if she can’t tell she is pregnant?
The morning after pill does not abort a “baby.” It only keeps the egg from being implanted by irritating the uteral lining. And no, there’s no way to know if you’re pregnant the day after having sex.
Wait, Is the uterus the part that looks like the cow head?
Puzzled – you’re an idiot.
And Obama’s approval rating last I checked was at a -15%. So, yes it will be an interesting election year. The employees who work for Hobby Lobby were already aware of the companies beliefs on abortion when they chose to work there so I’m sure there won’t be a huge walkout or strike because of the Supreme Courts ruling. And while I do agree that Viagra should fall into the same category and I do also agree that BC pills can also be used for medicinal purposes, however, this ruling is about Hobby Lobby. If a woman doesn’t agree with the their religious beliefs then there are plenty of other companies out there that do so the choice is hers to either stay or go. And China pretty much owns us these days thanks to the POTUS – you can boycott Hobby Lobby all you want. Chick-Fil-A had quite a boom in business the last time you libs made a stink about their religious beliefs on same sex marriage. And I’m sure that Hobby Lobby’s business will just do fine without your support. BTW try to find anything that’s not made or grown in China these days from out food on down to pet food that’s been killing pets in the USA and boycott them too while you’re at it.
I was wrong on the president approval rating I just checked it and it’s actually -14%.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll. And yes, it will be a very interesting election year!
So 86% of the people is approve of this guy. HMMMM…. Me personally, above all else, I think his approval is at an all time low due to his poor performance on job related issues. Maybe its the dramatic increase of the cost of living. Gas. Milk. Electricity.
FFA, you are right about the cost of living going up dramatically. Groceries in all categories have been rising and meat prices in particular. The typical BBQ brisket is about $10 more this year here and we are in beef country. Gas has spiked as well. He promised us our electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket so he kept his promise on that. I saw an article the other day on employment. Did you know that jobs held by native born Americans have actually declined 127,000 since 2000 while jobs of illegals and legal immigrants went up 5.7 million since 2000? That doesn’t bode well for American citizens. If the country was performing well, jobs would be created across the board.
Hey FFA, I can see why you have been looking around to move out of Illinois. A Gallup poll conducted had Illinois as the top state people would like to move out of if they could. Following is the top 10 and percents of people that would move if given the opportunity. 1. Illinois – 50% 2. Connecticut – 49%3. Maryland – 47% 4. Nevada – 43% 5. Rhode Island – 42% 6. New Jersey – 41% 7. New York – 41% 8. Massachusetts – 41% 9. Louisiana 40% 10. Mississippi – 39%
I will let you draw your own conclusions on why people would like to get out of their states.
Nevada surprises me. No state income tax. Gambling is legal. I don’t get it? The only thing I think is bad about Nevada is the heat. It gets way too hot in the summer.
KY, I have seen a lot of articles about Nevada. Their economy is in the toilet. Real Estate foreclosures are rampant and the gambling industry/tourism is struggling because of the overall economy and people are just not going to Vegas as much. They don’t have a whole lot else going for them out there. They have the additional handicap of having Harry Reid in charge of the Senate and not allowing any bills through that might actually help the citizens.
That’s what happens when a state doesn’t pay state income taxes. They rely on subsidies from gaming, oil, tourism, or child trade if you live in Texico. When the rest of the country goes down hill, no one is going to your state to spend what they were. These are typically Republican run states or at least the Frat boy in charge is a Republican. They also call themselves financial wizards or use a term like “good with money”. This is also what happens when you try to lure people in droves to move to your state. Then they work like hedge funds, only building on spec, load up tons of debt, inflate the housing market only to be flushed down the drain like a texican swimming in a toilet bowl. This will be Texico in 10 years.
Saw my State Senator (R) friend over the week end. Believe it or not, they are concerned about Quinn getting back in. Big concern is the inner city Dems. They are holding back the Harold Washington interview worried that it would seem racist. I dont know how any one would interpret that as racist. You have a black mayor calling a white guy a crook… That he should never hold any public office that involves public money.
My friends nick name – Gov Slayer.
Always, it depends on what poll you see on approval rating. Rasmussen is a little more generous than some I have seen. Gallup had him hovering at about 40% approval last week and in the thirties on foreign policy. By the way, the Rasmussen was pretty accurate on the info that 69% of Americans would like the Health Insurance they picked instead of the force fed Obamacare.
Hey Always, did you see the big announcement by Josh Earnest at the White House today (Thursday)? He announced that the President will be visiting a DC Mosque on July 4th as a good will gesture. Afterwards, many Muslim leaders and the Imam will be invited to the White House for a cookout. This is on our most patriotic day of the year. What a slam against all Americans. Following is the statement from Ahmed Mohamed Usman.
America is supposed to be the land of freedom and of tolerance. Finally, we are starting to see this. If America has Christian Prayer Breakfasts, so must it have breakfasts praying to Mecca. If America is to put the 10 Commandments on display, so must she display the Quran. To be welcomed into the highest office of America, to celebrate her birth and independence is an honor and is a step for Muslims in America to “begin to establish our rights”. President Obama is “truly” opening the door for Muslims in America.
Are there any questions now on what his leanings are?
Freedom to believe which ever religion you so choose.
You are a horrible bigot.
Why not just crop dust all Hobby Lobby stores with birth control? That way the employees and all Neanderthals that shop there will be sterile. Hobby Lobby goes out of business within one rural generation (15 years).
ok, that one was pretty funny. damn, that’s 2 of your posts that I’ve liked.
Do we have to limit the crop dusting to just Hobby Lobby?
No limits, no borders, no boundaries. If it’s red, dust it.
Were there not two Corps in this fight??? Only one being referenced is Hobby Lobby.
Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties Corporation were the plaintiffs.
Screw IUD’s, we need IED’s in every right wing uterus
The real question I have not seen asked is why the Chamber did not file a brief in this case. Clearly they have some concern in mind. Does this decision perhaps facilitate piercing the veil of closely-held corporations? Though I personally disagree with the decision, it does seem to be somewhat narrow. But I cannot help but wonder what unintended consequences will arise out of it. Certainly it does seem like a flood of litigation will now be unleashed asking the courts for religious exceptions on a case-by-case basis. If anything this was a win for lawyers (surprise, surprise)
Excite, we have already seen what the Law of Unintended Consequences has done to this country. Are we more united or more divided than ever? Progressives are really good at dividing the country for gender, race and class. That is the plan. Now, they are getting push back and judging from some of these comments, it is not going over very well. Perhaps Obama should just dissolve the court and rule by the pen and phone from now on. He is ignoring many of the laws on the books as it is.
I agree with you re: Obama’s willingness to rule by executive order. I also think we would all be a lot better off if the Republican party got back to the business of running a sound country. We (and yes, I am a registered Republican if you can believe it) have lost our party to religious zealots and pandering idiots.
Excite, “We would be better off if the Republican Party got back to the business of running a sound country”???? Who has been running the country for the past 6 years? The only way Republicans can get back to running a sound country is for them to be in charge and that starts with taking the Senate back in November. Then, we have to wait for 2 more years to get the Usurper out since he would veto anything put in front of him. He does like those Executive Orders now and plans to unilaterally do Immigration Reform and open the borders completely up to the hordes.
Agent, you must have missed the last part about the party being lost to religious zealots and pandering idiots.
It’s the same message all we “misguided liberals” have been trying to get across. Get some decent candidates and we might vote for them!
The Republican party is pushing away supporters with their stance on just about everthing except fiscal responsibility.
Believe me, if you got someone in there that would focus on that and leave gay marriage, abortion, women’s rights, and equality alone I would vote for them.
Libby, did you see the latest on the Mississippi Senate Race and massive voter fraud? The venerable Thad Cochran’s campaign got caught paying off black voters to vote against the Tea Party guy. This is going to be revealed in the coming days. $15 dollars a vote and tell them the KKK will be going to the Senate unless they vote against him. Stay tuned. Politics is a nasty business and those that have been in power a long time will do almost anything to stay there. Cochran could and should go to jail and his minions over this.
As I’ve said many times, sleazebags come from both parties. Vote out all incumbents!
Libby, we actually did have a decent candidate in Mississippi until the thugs stole it from him with massive voter fraud. Hopefully, this will be overturned and our Conservative candidate will be sent to the Senate.
Article by: EMILY WAGSTER PETTUS , Associated Press
Updated: July 1, 2014 – 4:10 PM
JACKSON, Miss. — Chris McDaniel has presented no evidence to support his claim that voter fraud pushed Senate incumbent Thad Cochran to victory in Mississippi’s GOP runoff. And without evidence, the tea party-backed hopeful is going to have a tough time overturning Cochran’s nearly 6,800-vote win.
Mainstream Republicans have disavowed McDaniel’s complaints about Democrats voting in a Republican contest at a time when the GOP is struggling nationally to expand its traditional base of white voters.
And some of the groups that spent millions supporting McDaniel have walked away. The Club for Growth, which spent more than $3.1 million to help McDaniel, quickly congratulated Cochran as the winner and moved on.
The McDaniel campaign has sent representatives to most of Mississippi’s 82 counties to try to examine poll books to look for crossover voting, Fritsch said. The McDaniel campaign believes it has found about 3,300 crossover votes in 38 counties, state Sen. Michael Watson, an attorney who has been deeply involved in the campaign, said Tuesday. However, the campaign has not released documents to back up those numbers.
I saw on the news this am – WGN – that a large group of private citizens blocked a buss full of illegals from coming in.
Average Joes getting fed up with that jack ass in the white house.
“Women of childbearing age spend 68 percent more than men in out-of-pocket health-care costs, the government contends.”
Yeah I wouldn’t believe ANYTHING that this administration puts out considering their history of bogus numbers to create divisiveness. Utterly disgusting this administration, truly.
You are right Destro. The lies of this administration are just mind boggling and the true believers are having more and more trouble justifying the lies, cover up of the lies, cover ups to cover the cover ups.
I hope we find the WMD’s soon. All those cover ups.
You are right FFA on the citizens blocking the buses. I believe that was in California if I recall, which was surprising. I saw where the good citizens of Massachusetts got a load of them and they are not happy campers either. These illegals are being sent everywhere and many have diseases that have not been treated. Perhaps Rahm will welcome them to Chicago and have a big parade.
If they are in fact diseased, please return to sender and keep them in Texico.
I hear they speak good enough English that they can say – No Way Illinois!!! We want Jobs!
So FFA, what is this I saw on the news about 11 more people getting shot to death and over 60 injured in Chicago over the 4th of July weekend? That is a lot even by Chicago standards. I guess the thugs with illegal firearms were trying them out to see who they could kill. That is like a third world country up there on the drive byes. I guess the left will proclaim it is just another reason why we need more gun control. This, with a city who has some of the toughest gun control laws on the books. I hope Rahm is proud of his city for this violence.
80 Shootings. 15 Murders. Mayor and top cop on tv both seeming baffled.
Also trying to push a $13.00 Min Wage in Chicago.
Rahm not gonna get back in with that Murder Rate thing hanging around… Time for a change in the top cop slot. McCarthy has not done the job.
FFA, it is just common sense to me. Chicago Police should have a good idea who these gangs/thugs are by now and where they are. Why not send in the SWAT to get them, confiscate their guns, prosecute them and put them away? What good does it do to arrive at the scene just to put the victims in a body bag and never bring anyone to justice? I think Detroit is very much the same way.
Yesterday at 3pm Eastern, there were 67 comments. This morning at 7:15am, there are 141 comments. Whoa.
You are way behind KY. 179 and counting. By the way, I saw a very good political cartoon this morning on Townhall. Picture the Mayflower anchored off Plymouth Rock. A sign on shore says – Welcome to Ye Land of Religious Liberty. The sign said it all. The country has devolved into the land of no Religious Liberty. This case may illustrate how the nation has been dozing for many years and didn’t realize what was going on until it was almost too late.
I disagree about the pilgrims. They were looking for religious freedom. The option to believe something OTHER THAN what those in power believed. There is plenty of liberty, you just have to also respect my religion and that of all other citizens.
I do agree that they were looking for religious freedom and they established it when they landed. They had been oppressed for so long in Europe, they were willing to risk their lives to go somewhere where they could have it. Now, the Progressives want to quash religious freedom and it is apparent every day what they are up to. Obamacare is just part of the problem.
We don’t want to quash religious freedom. Nobody is stopping the Greens from practicing whatever religion they want to practice. But individuals can’t on one hand hide behind a corporate shield and then expect it to be treated as an individual.
And as Ron has said many time. Freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. IMHO Hobby Lobby has no right to force their beliefs on their employees and deny them to health care that is afforded under the law.
They give them health care. They are not telling their employees they cant take the pill.
All they are saying is they do not want to pay for it.
Progressives do not want to take away religious freedom. They want everyone to have the right to believe or not believe.
It’s actually the evangelical who want to take away the freedom to worship because they want everyone to believe the same thing. They think their religion is the only right religion and therefore everyone else is wrong and must convert. That’s not freedom. That’s oppression.
The employees who want the drug have earned it as part of their compensation package. Now, some men want to remove it from the womens’ compensation package while still allowing Viagara and visectomy. They say abortion on one side of their mouths (the morning after pill does not abort btw) and fund it in China and take from it in their 401K plans that are heavily invested in the drugs they supposedly are against. War on Women continues…
Pray tell, Agent, how has anyone’s religious freedoms been violated? Is someone forcing HL to take the morning after pill? Oh! That’s right! HL CAN’T take the morning after pill because IT’S NOT A PERSON. But HL can tell their employees they can’t take the morning after pill. Just who’s religious freedoms are being trampled on here?
but they’re not saying their employees CAN’T take the morning after pill, they’re just saying they don’t want to pay for it. They’re already paying for the health care (and many forms of contraception); there are only 4 varieties of it that they have chosen not to pay for. The cost to the woman would be around $30 for the morning after pill.
That’s not the point. Why should my employer get to make my choices for me?
Libby, I don’t understand how your employer is making choices for you. You are just as free as you ever were to make all your own choices, it’s just that your employer doesn’t want to pay for some of those choices. So the only way you get to make your own choices is if someone else finances those choices for you? And why can’t the employer be free to make HIS own choices about what he will and will not offer by way of benefits? Why should YOU make choices for your employer?
Connie – I guess it’s a chicken and egg story, isn’t it? Is he making choices for me by denying me access to it through my health insurance? I say yes. If he can do that, can he then deny access for blood transfusions for you? You won’t care until it’s something that’s important to you. I care because I see this as a slippery slope. Picking and choosing what coverage you will and won’t provide for your employees. That was the reason for the ACA in the first place.
224 – that has to be some kind of IJ record! Most comments ever!?
Nope. We’ve gone over 400 before!
400! Were 385 of those comments Agent talking about Texas?
385 were from Agent insulting liberals.
He’s an angel.
Are you jealous Mark? As long as I will be castigated and down thumbed anyway, Texas has over 1/3rd of the oil and gas production in this country and North Dakota’s Bakken basin is going wild as well. Between these two states, over half of the production the entire country produces. We tend to keep Liberals butts warm in the winter and gas in their car.
You stay away from my butt, Agent! I’m just fine, thank you.
While being pregnant may not be a medical condition as such… Birth control is used for medical conditions. PCOS and endo to name too.. But who cares, they are just women with their hormones and overies they should just be in the kitchen making a sandwich anyway.
Pretty hypocritical of a company to say no birth control for you… but if you get pregnant, no paid leave either… Then again, most “Christians” (not all mind you but most) are hypocrites of the highest order.
If their businesses won’t cover it and people are saying get it on your own, and the employee can’t afford it (FYI, if they can’t afford the 10-90 a month to get birth control, how are they going to afford another mouth to feed) they will go to a subsidized clinic and the taxpayers will still be paying for it.
And before anyone says don’t have sex, you all do realize married couples don’t always want children… And even with two incomes they can still be living payday to payday.
You need to read up on this before commenting. This has absolutely nothing to do with not providing ANY birth control. The case was specific to 4 items, of which one was the morning after pill.
Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood did not go the SC and argue that they should pay for no BC whatsoever. In a nutshell, it only pertained to abortificants, regardless of what Libby is saying.
I love the Bible Belt and Bible Belt Accessories. The land that leads the league in children out of wedlock, divorce, poverty, meth, neck tattoos, incest, and a myriad of other societal woes. This could be the ticket to separate these blights from America, and let them have their own land. Just as long as there is a wall.
Yes, Ginny is correct. It is not ALL birth control. I love how the media has not been more specific in that regard. They are against a specific type of birth control. Plan B. Some of which have not even been thoroughly tested. This technically has already been resolved when the law first came out. There are already at least 5 companies on the exchange that do not cover abortions. Why haven’t people been up in arms over those companies?
An idea or suggestion that is wildly unreasonable, illogical, preposterous, idiotic, harebrained, and just dirt-stupid can be considered patently absurd. It is likely that if someone held up a piece of paper serving as a legal instrument and identified it as a person with 1st Amendment freedom of speech rights, most sentient beings would consider the concept absurd; unless they are conservative Supreme Court justices. The only thing more idiotic than ascribing personhood to a legal instrument is asserting it prays, worships, and warrants religious freedom protections; particularly when the corporation (legal instrument) will exercise its religious freedom to impose religion on its employees and abridge their 1st and 14th Amendment constitutional rights. / In what (should have been) the most obvious, and frankly blunt, ruling, the High Court (should have) inform(ed) Hobby Lobby, and all evangelicals, that exercise of religious freedom does not include imposing religion on other Americans. It is not now, and never has been, what religious liberty means, especially when the Greens’ freedom of religion means imposing their religion to harm other Americans. In fact, since religious freedom is being used as a tool to impose religion in various contexts around the country, including when businesses claim religious freedom gives them the right to discriminate against the LGBT community, spelling out what religious freedom really means (would have) settled a myriad (of) issues. The Court (should have) affirm the Constitutional principle that religious liberty is a shield; not a sword that allows evangelicals to impose their beliefs on others. / Amend the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (which was the basis of Hobby Lobby’s successful lawsuit) to specify that corporations are not granted certain protections given to individuals and others or amend the statute in the opposite direction, by adding explicit language protecting individuals from having employers’ religious beliefs imposed on them
anyone else sick of the fact that Presidents can stack the deck with the supreme court to conform to their agenda? I’m talking about both sides here. being appointed a supreme court justice should not be about politics. Of course a conservative president will appoint conservative justices, just as a liberal president will appoint the most liberal justices. When a decision is made, it becomes more of a “Ha, ha, our side won, your side lost”; so much so that most people even forget about the issue at hand. I doubt the majority of you, myself certainly included, have honestly taken the time to read the exact wording of the case and its decision, yet we all have already formed our opinions on it.
The problem is, I don’t know if there’d be a better way. Also, should they be lifetime appointments, or should there be mandatory retirement after x years?
KY jw–you seem to really love the SCOTUS cases (and admirably so; I sincerely wish I followed them as closely as you). What’s your take? Everyone else feel free to chime in as well…I’m curious as to your opinions.
Well Ralph, I think I’ve made my position pretty clear. Closely held corporations are still corporations. And corporations are not entitled to the same rights as individuals. That’s why people incorporate. To now say a corporation has religious freedom is like saying a corporation has the right to bear arms. It makes no sense. If it doesn’t make sense, then it is nonsensical. In other words – nonsense.
Corporation are practices one of the main essence of individual rights which is even spelled out in the constitution, the freedom to assemble. So does any assembly of people entail to forefitor of those peoples collective individual rights?
Corporations are about limiting liability. They allow people to that assemble them to assemble in a way that they choose, which affords them limited liability. I think limited liability is very much in the spirit of free association (being able to self-limit the amount of your association).
And corporation do have the right to bear arms… as well as not allow people to be arms while on corporate property… This is pretty simple individual rights stuff.
“Individual” rights, LiveFree. A corporation is NOT an individual. It is a legal entity. How can a legal entity have religious freedom? The individuals within the corporation have religious freedom, but a legal entity can not. It cannot pray, it cannot attend mass, it cannot take sacraments and it can’t shoot a gun. Only PEOPLE can do those things. And nobody is infringing on the corporat individual’s rights. Nobody is forcing them to TAKE the morning after pill.
The Supreme Ct said they can.
LiveFree, Hobby Lobby’s health plan covers 16 different methods of birth control. All they won’t pay for is the morning after, week after pills which are considered risky and is nothing more than abortion. Hey, if you get 16 different things paid for, do you think you could spring for the morning after pill at least?
The morning after pill is not an abortion. It inhibits implantation of the sperm into the egg by irritating the uterus.
And you say liberals are uninformed! Jeesh!
You are uninformed. The morning after pill does not prevent the sperm from fertilizing the egg. It prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. Therefore, if you believe life begins at fertilization (conception), preventing further development is aborting the life of the child.
I don’t believe that.
You don’t believe the the egg is already fertilized by the time the morning after pill is used, or you don’t believe life begins at conception?
I don’t believe a zygote is the same as a baby.
At what point in development would you consider it a baby?
When it can survive outside the womb.
A zygote can be removed from a womb, implanted in another and continue development, so it has survived outside of a womb.
Get your facts straight – no, that’s surviving in a DIFFERENT womb. Surviving outside of a womb would require a baby to have lungs to breathe.
Ralph, isn’t it shameful that we sit at the anniversary of the birth of our country and we are as divided as we have been since the Civil War? All we have wanted is for the Constitution to be followed and the laws of the land be faithfully executed by our leaders. Unfortunately, the Constitution has been trampled on by liberals in both parties and their oath of office means nothing to them. Time for some real change in DC, don’t you think?
Since you seem to be in a pro-united mood, how about agreeing to stop exchanging insults and begin to have civil and respectful debates? Or do I need to become a Conservative and agree with you 100% in order to have any debate with you?
Great Idea Ron. Dont always agree with you, but on this point – RIGHT ON RON!
Nice admission Ron that you need to become Conservative and agree with me more. When you do that, we will get along just fine, but you have an annoying habit of agreeing and disagreeing in the same paragraph. It is pretty much impossible for someone to agree 100% with someone and still debate with them. It is easy to debate with someone with a completely different view. How about this, if you agree with something I say, you just say -Good Comment! That works for me. If you happen to say something I agree with, I will do the same.
When did I admit that I, “need to become Conservative and agree with you more”? I was asking you a question, not making a statement. Do you know the difference?
you said, “It is pretty much impossible for someone to agree 100% with someone and still debate with them. It is easy to debate with someone with a completely different view.” That was the point of my post. You have shown to be incapable of having civil and respectful debates with those who disagree with you. Each time I have extended an olive branch to end the insults, you come back stating that the only way you would agree is if I were more Conservative and agreed with you.
I will NEVER become a Conservative or Liberal, EVER.
I believe these forums should be used to debate and challenge each other to grow in our thought processes, not just agree with each other.
Ron, I quote – “Or do I need to become a Conservative and agree with you 100% in order to have any debate with you”? The day you become Conservative and agree 100% with me on anything will be when hell freezes over. Your statement is pretty weird Ron. There is no debate if there is 100% agreement. If I disagree with you, I am labeled a right wing nut job. If you trot out leftist websites or offer a Paul Krugman article, I will call you out. Tell me, why don’t you criticize the left wing bloggers on this site when they make statements like Booger does or Planet or Libby? You are strangely silent no matter how outrageous they are. Booger hasn’t made a coherent statement in two or three years. Do you enjoy that tripe? If so, that tells me all I need to know.
I enjoy me the hell out of some txmouth! He’s hilarious! You’re just too dense to get his humor. You need a rapier wit, of which you are sorely lacking.
Once again, do you know the difference between a question (inquiry) and a statement (admission)?
I know that there is no debate if people agree 100% of the time. That was a sarcastic statement. You really are clueless aren’t you? It is people like you that make Independent become less Conservative because we do not want to be anything like you.
If you believe that, in your words, “the day you become Conservative and agree 100% with me on anything will be when hell freezes over.”, then why did you state, “Nice admission Ron that you need to become Conservative and agree with me more.” in your previous post?
Actually, I believe we agree 100% on fiscal matters such as lower taxes, reduced spending, smaller government and less regulations. Correct me if I am wrong. The problem I have is that Democrats and Republicans have very similar records on these issues. That leads me to lean toward their positions on social issues when voting. When Republicans stop trying to use the government to stop taking liberties away from citizens or prevent the expansion of freedom and extend equal rights to ALL Amaericans, they will start getting my vote again.
For what do you want me to criticize them? They do not insult or mischaracterize my political beliefs, use profanity to demean me, do not take my posts out of context or fail to comprehend what I am stating, or discredit the sources of the information I provide. In addition, how often have I posted “Good comment” to either of them?
You know, Agent, if you were a little less abrasive we would have all kinds of things we agree on. But just when I’m about ready to like one of your comments, you have to throw an insult in at the end and I can’t in good conscience agree with you. Stop the insults and see if we don’t agree more often than not.
stay YOU, bro. Keep it up with the open mind and listening to ALL sides before you make your mind up. Don’t automatically agree with something just because someone you admire believes in it; take the time to figure things out first.
Libby, your sense of humor is as nasty as booger’s. As far as his political views, he sounds like his savior Obama, you know, the one you voted for twice. The Quinnipiac University poll just announced in their latest poll that Obama was the worst President since FDR. That covers 12 President’s and almost 70 years. Congratulations on your choice. You and Booger enjoy!
Thanks Agent, good thing you can’t get pregnant by your method of “relations”, we need to keep the population down in Texico. Nothing like man in a suit, driving a Ford or Lincoln, carrying a brief case, and with a nice comb over to get your heart pumping. You should have to register as a Politician Offender for crawling up the rectum of every dog catcher. Be a leader and not a follower, your ideas are that of Fox and transmitted to you via the same device Rush has drilled into his skull. As I recall, the origination of this information comes from planet Kolob. – Nanu Nanu
PS – no jumping the bones of any serviceman in uniform during the 4th of July celebration. This is America’s holiday, you get March 2nd.
Agent, my sense of humor may be nasty according to you, but at least I have one. Your idea of humor is some insult or putdown of Obama or democrats. I bet you are a miserable person to live with. In my house there is laughter 24/7.
Obama may be the worst president since FDR, but he didn’t send thousands of men and women to their death for his own purposes. He may be impeached, but Bush should be tried and shot for treason.
Did you look at all of the results of the poll or just the headline? He also finished as the 4th best president since WWII after Reagan, Clinton, and Kennedy.
That is why I do not take polls seriously.
Ron, the reason why the left bloggers don’t criticize you is that they agree with you. You apparently agree with them by never calling them out on their nasty anti Conservative rants. By the way, since when have Democrats and Republicans agreed on fiscal restraint on the economy? Except for a few RINO’s, Republicans are concerned with run a way spending, would like to cut the budget. Meanwhile, I see no Conservative Democrats calling for reduced spending and cutting taxes as an incentive for business to hire. They prefer the Keynsian approach which has been an abysmal failure from day one and increasing taxes to fund yet more government failures.
Man! Reagan did a lot of “favors” to be tops on all of this revisionist history polling. I wonder if the Davis family had any control over this.
I know it is futile, but I will ask again. Can you quantify, that means to provide data as support, your statement, “the Keynsian approach which has been an abysmal failure from day one”?
Please provide real evidence that Keynesian principles have ever been used without any of Friedman’s free market principles. This economy works best when there is a combination of both. See Reaganomics. Neither principle is completely flawed or flawless.
I can tell by your posts that you only pay attention to the Conservative media. Not all non-Conservative media sources are to be discredited. Even I ignore Media Matter and MoveOn because they are too far left. You need to branch out with an open mind and actually listen to all sides.
All politicians call for reduced spending and lowering taxes during a campaign. It is getting them to actually reduce spending that is the problem. That includes Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Liberals and Conservatives. Show me one campaign where a candidate stated he/she was going to not only push for reduced spending, but stated that includes his/her own constituency. Show me one politician who voted for or even better yet, added an amendment to a bill that would reduce federal dollars to their state/district. They all want someone else to reduce federal dollars to their state/district.
Once again Agent you interchange Democrat POLITICIANS with actual Democrats. Do you not understand the difference?
You judge me by the Democrats in office, but when I do that to you you balk and say you’re not like them.
Well, I’m not like them, either. I’m for balancing the budget, cutting spending, addressing “entitlement” (I don’t like that word) fraud and a host of other fiscally responsible actions.
Where I differ from the “right-wingnut” people I rail against is in SOCIAL issues. Why you don’t see that, I’ll never know.
Pro-choice, gay marriage, equal pay for equal work, equality for all Americans, healthcare for all Americans. These are the things I am passionate about. I really don’t think you have a problem with pro-choice or gay marriage or at least I haven’t really heard you say you do – so we are not that far apart in our beliefs.
If you would just STOP equating me with Democrats in office, we would get along alot better.
Yes Ron, Obama is the worst since FDR. GW didn’t score well either but was way ahead of Obama. I liked JFK at the time he was in office and it was terrible he was assassinated, but his track record with women diminishes his record. By the way, he would be considered a Conservative by today’s standards. He actually believed the economy could be stimulated by tax cuts, but then he was the last of the Truman Democrats and those days are long gone with the likes of who we have now.
The Constitution needs to be a living and breathing document. States rights are irrelevant in 2014. They were fine in 1776 but no longer apply. Most people will live in multiple states over their life time and quite frankly, some states aren’t pulling their weight due to states rights. These “moral” arguments are originated in specific parts of the country and are deterrents to more important issues. These specific territories are not capable of taking on the task of more important matters such as the economy and therefore create a diversion and muddy up the political landscape. It’s an excuse for them to be dumb “because our people want it that way in these them there imaginary borders”. Once their state has too much power then they want to scale it down to county politics. Said states rely heavily on government subsidies no matter which industry (energy, defense), they can have low paying call center jobs because they can not create their own economy due to the doltism created by states rights.
I agree with you about the justices. It is a shame that justices are chosen for their agreement with the political leaning of the president. Occasionally, an appointment is denied by the houses of congress, but it doesn’t seem to happen often.
I can’t think of a better way to choose justices, either. I’m on the fence about a definite retirement date. I can see that it would be nice to keep the court fresh, but then it also might cause cases to be thrown on the back burner if the chief justice thinks waiting for a new appointment might make the majority go the direction he/she wants to go. So, knowing in advance could skew the way things are done as well.
I’ve been following SCOTUS for a little over a year now. I will say they had more unanimous decisions this year than expected. So, they do agree and come to the same conclusion. However, politically charged cases do seem to follow “party lines.” Although, last year when they struck down DOMA, one (or two?) of the conservative justices went against their expected affiliation.
It really is fascinating. I didn’t read this case before the decision and I won’t read the entire decision (it’s too long). I am very thankful there is a blog out there that will summarize and put quotes of interest on their site. ;-)
Personally, I’m torn about this case. I don’t agree with the mandates, but I’m unnerved by the exemption for a for profit corporation. So my contributions to this conversation will remain informational only. :D
“Back in my day, they used Bayer aspirin for contraceptives. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn’t that costly.” – FOSTER FRIESS.
Wouldn’t it be awesome if all the daughters of these conservatives went to a Toby Keith or Kenny Chesney concert and got knocked up in the port-a-john? I wonder how many middle of the night trips to the clinic there would be. Would they use coat hangers? Would they make them drink some farm solution you feed the cows? Would they use the left over Strychnine from Sunday Service? Would they just pray? Let’s say you
Kenny Chesney’s not really a redneck band, he’s more along the lines of Jimmy Buffett. Pretty good stuff, actually. Toby Keith SEEMS like he’d be more appealing to rednecks, but he did support Obama in the last 2 elections. He also has some decent stuff. Then again, you can’t beat good ol’ Willie Nelson. His music is for EVERYBODY…rednecks, hippies, bikers, Wall Streeters…
Kenny and Jimmy and good bands for people that aren’t into music and just need to be seen at a concert because everyone is there. Pretty much the direction Dave Matthews went and they now coin that music genre as “Frat Rock”. Didn’t know that Toby supported Obama, I know Tim McGraw has in the past. I just know Toby likes God’s Green Skunky Snapple. Willie and the Highwaymen are unbelievable and the only good thing from Texico. Actually I think Willie is from Texas, he lived there while Ann Richards was governor.
I need an asprin and a rubber. I have a F’n head ach!
If you have a headache, what do you need the rubber for?
The 5 knuckle shuffle relieves stress and the dong bag will make sure nothing gets on the desk
Thanks for the insight txmouthbreatherboogereatertx. I think.
I have a feeling you need that method because no female would feel inclined to be with you. You are one repulsive individual and hope you don’t reproduce.
Sometimes I do it inclined, other times declined, it’s kind of like bench pressing. You should try it with Midge some time. I might help get rid of your Man (oYo)
Are those man boobs???
Them Thar are Dolly Parton size. I think she’s still a bid deal down in Texico
Made sense to me. Maybe just an inside joke?
Naw. It’s a man thing.
Gays hate red necks. Red necks hate gays. What do they have in common?
They both hate sleeves!
You saw Last Comic Standing, too?
Yes. Wasn’t sure if it was letterman. But yes. Last Comic Standing it was.
FFA, if you want to see a really good movie, try “Jersey Boys”. Saw it last night and it was really good. Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. Interesting story is that some of those guys were basically thugs growing up and they are lucky they got in the music business and made a success. The guy really had a unique voice and by the way, still performs at an advanced age. It is all about the music with him.
“Walk like a man, talk like a man, but sing like a little girl.”
No doubt he had a unique voice, but I sure would like to have his record sales. That is what made him stand out from all the other singers in the business.
More admiration for young males? This has Mark Foley written all over it.
The Critics were not too high on that one in Chicago. They talked about it not having enough of the Music in it.
Well, critics who generally don’t like a movie almost guarantee its success. The movie was supposed to be about Frankie Valli and his life story, but believe me, there was plenty of music in it and all their hits including “Cherry”, “Walk like a Man”, “Big Girls don’t Cry” among others.
I saw the Broadway musical. It was almost entirely music.
They may just be big Frankie fans. Music lovers always walk away wanting more. Saw an interview with Kevin Cronin. He stated he was always going to disappoint someone who wanted to hear the deep cuts, Something obscure on a B side from the 2nd album.
FFA, Had Frankie not gotten Bob Gaudeo added to the group, he would have just been a club singer with no hits to speak of. Gaudeo wrote the hits and the rest is history. They did all this during the heyday of the Beatles so it was quite an accomplishment.
Seems like I’ve had to post ones like these a little too often, but here’s another one.
Louis Zamperini passed away yesterday at the age of 97.
For those of you who haven’t heard of Mr. Zamperini, he started out as just a street kid with no direction in his life until he discovered his talent for running. He made it to the US Olympic team and competed in the 1936 Berlin Olympics, where he finished 8th place in the 5,000 meters. Hitler was so impressed that he demanded to meet him personally.
The 1940 Olympics in Tokyo never happened, due to Japan trying to take over the world. A few years later, Zamperini found himself on a B-24 Liberator, which was shot down over the Pacific. He and a fellow airman survived 46 days at sea (read that again) in nothing but a rubber raft, only to get picked up by the Japanese and be sent to a POW camp where he would be tortured for 2 years. The amount of pain he endured at the hands of his captors was horrendous.
He came home from the war suffering from severe PTSD, and tried to numb his pain with alcohol. A few years later, he had an epiphany and gave up the bottle, ultimately deciding to forgive his torturers. He went so far as to return to Japan to confront the guards who had beaten him, and he embraced them in forgiveness.
If you haven’t read it, pick up the book “Unbroken.” I honestly can’t recommend it highly enough. It’s the most amazing story of survival and forgiveness you will ever read.
RIP, Louis Zamperini. To all of my fellow IJ commenters out there, Liberal, Conservative, Independent, Moderate, Evangelical, Feminist, Misogynist, Democrat, Republican, Atheist, Agnostic, Texan, Booger Eater, New Yorker, what-have-you, I wish you all a Happy Independence Day. Hug a loved one extra tight, eat a little more than you should, laugh harder than necessary, but above all, take absolutely nothing for granted.
I just watched a documentary on HBO about him.
Good one Ralph. The Greatest Generation was called that for a good reason. I had the pleasure of being a good friend and fellow agent of a man who passed away about 10 years ago. He was a B-24 Liberator pilot and actually was shot down twice, but not captured. He served in both the European theatre and Pacific theatre. He came home with a chest full of medals, got into the insurance business and worked until he was about 85. He was a very humble guy and didn’t brag about his service, but I could ask questions and he would tell me about missions. He took hero to a new level in my opinion. Guys like Zamperini and my friend are responsible for us not speaking German or Japanese right now.
Pretty sure that wasn’t going to happen anyway. God Bless American God %^&* Texico
Happy Independence Day to all. This is one thing we can all come together on: We’re proud to be American. God Bless the USA!
Amen to that Libby. Something we can all agree on. With all our problems and disagreements and views, we still live in the greatest country in the history of the world.
Congratulations IJ. 341 comments on a story that came out only 4 days ago. I believe that might be a new record. My guess is that 400 comments will be breached by the end of Monday work day.
Only 369. Wrong…again
I said it was a guess Ron, not fact. Are you trolling again? Perhaps some of the leftists took an extra day from the holiday and were not online to troll as usual.
Just pointing out your poor prognosticating skills. You make weatherman look prophetic.
Lucky for you and your family that you are such a great insurance agent.
Hey Ron, you criticize me at every opportunity and then complain when I criticize you. You can dish it out, but can’t take it. Your sarcasm is thinly veiled and you and I both know that you don’t think I am a great agent. By the way, my family is not the only one who thinks I am a good agent. My colleagues and companies also think the same thing and my record speaks for itself.
I never criticized you for criticizing me. You provide more than enough fodder to criticize you for poor reading comprehension, misstatement of facts, an inability to admit when you have been proven wrong, and failure to provide statistical support for your assertions. Unlike you, I can take it and have even admitted when I have been proven wrong.
I honestly do believe that you are a great agent. I just do not think you are very good at making predictions or anything else.
I never said who does or does not think you are a good agent. Only that your family is lucky you are so you can support them financially. Are you really that dense?
Just padding the stats!
Hey FFA, did you see the guy on the news who was dozing at the Yankees/Red Sox game? He is suing the Yankees, ESPN and Major League baseball because the announcers made fun of him. He wants $10 million. This guy was fast asleep by the fourth inning and missed a home run with fans cheering all around him. He reminds me of a typical Obama voter who has been snoozing for 6 years on the worst administration in history.
Good insult Ron. You are very good at that. A typical response from you lying to me that you “honestly” believe I am a good agent and then turning around and calling me dense. Go fly a kite or go to a different forum. Your comments are getting old.
Are you saying you’re not a good agent, Agent?
How can you say that I am lying in what I believe? Please prove that I am lying before making the accusation.
Ron, you have a track record with me for insulting me so forgive me for not believing anything you say. That and the fact you voted for Obama twice and aren’t sorry for that colossal mistake is reason enough to not take your posts seriously.
I have insulted you for poor reading comprehension, poor understanding of economic principles, failure to support your assertions (especially on economic matters), hypocracy, closed-mindeness, and your general disrespect for anyone who does think like you. However, I have NEVER insulted you as an insurance agent. In fact, I have applauded your success multiple times and I am glad you have done well and created jobs. Why can you not just say “Thank you” for the compliment?
Correction: “who does NOT think like you”
Actually the fatty that wants to sue the Yankees, ESPN, and MLB is a staunch conservative. He’s a Yankee fan which in itself is a conservative fan base. His Rascal Scooter was parked in the concourse but there were bumper stickers that said “Honk if love Freedom Fries”. He was exhausted because he had a tryst with his Rudy Giuliani blow up doll prior to the game. From what it was reported, they were both in drag while this was going on. Do they sell those at the place where you discretely purchased your Ronnie doll? Sean Hannity and Bill Orally claimed this was a frivolous law suit but were only saying this because their cases were thrown out for similar instances. I think Hannity had either an Ollie North or Karl Rove doll.
It seems the righties did not take an extra day and used the time instead to censor my posts on this article. You guys are pathetic.
Hey Libby, I did give you an “Amen” on your Happy Independence day post. I hardly think that it a downthumb even though 90% of your posts deserve them.
Agent – I didn’t mention your name, did I? If 90% of my posts deserve a thumb-down, 99% of your posts deserve one.
Libby, the ultra Liberal who is never wrong, is an expert on any subject matter and vilifies anyone who disagrees. Why am I not surprised you disagree with a Conservative? I think I may bump you up to 99% myself. One thumbs up for every 100 posts is about right.
Villifies? Really? I thought I just insulted them. Villify is much better. Thanks!
Ron, I guess we have a stand off on insults then. I have criticized you for poor reading comprehension, almost no understanding of Economic principles, thinking that Keynsian spending policy is right for the country, hypocritical leftist thinking, almost no credit for Conservative opinion, flaunting leftist or government websites trying to support your opinion, trotting out articles by Paul Krugman, the noted leftist columnist at the NYTimes and former leftist professor etc. I would thank you for the compliment of being a good agent, but you always manage to insult me before the post is over. Forgive me for thinking you are insincere.
I will address your criticisms.
I admit that my reading comprehension is not perfect, but at least I am willing to admit when I make mistakes. I NEVER said Keynesian spending policy is right for the country, I actually provide statistical evidence proving my understanding of economic principles, my thinking may seem hypocritical to you because I am not a leftist or rightie, I fully credit and believe in Conservative opinions on fiscal issues, I have also flaunted libertarian and conservative websites, and I have only refernced ONE article by Paul Krugman that was also supported by the libertarian Ludwig von Mises institute.
Ron, why don’t we just agree to disagree on about every subject that comes out. Your habit of agreeing and disagreeing on the same post is annoying to say the least. By the way, Libertarians are almost as goofy as leftists. They do believe in limited government, but outside of that, there is not much I find attractive. My memory of you flaunting Conservative websites is not that good, but I do remember a lot of government websites you have flaunted and yes, you have promoted Keynsian spending in opposition to Conservatives who advocate spending cuts and taxation relief. You never seem to be upset about what Obama is doing that is harming the country. Why is that? Do you favor him advocating spending another $4 billion of our dollars on the illegal alien problem at our borders and not solving the problem or enforcing our border? Nancy Pelosi said yesterday that she wishes she could take all those kids in. Why don’t we give her the opportunity and set up a refugee camp in her vineyard, feed them and care for them on her own dime?
I still believe that we agree on more than we disagree.
I believe in:
Less government spending
Freedom for all including gay marriage.
The right for a woman to choose whether or not to have an abortion
Freedom of religion = freedom from religion
Comnination of government and private sector in helping the economy grow in times of a recession.
I have NEVER promted Keynesina spending in opposition to Conservatives. I have no idea where you get that from any of my posts. Do I think smart government spending, in combination with free market principles can spur an economy and create growth? Absolutely. But, then agin, so did President Reagan.
The problem I have with Republicans right now is that they say they are for smaller government, less spending, and balanced budgets, but there is no evidence that they will enact those beliefs when they are elected.
In fact, between 2003-07 when they had the White House and control of Congress; the government grew, spending increased, and the economy began to collapse. They did lower taxes, but that is a significant reason why we are in our current debt situation. They should have been decreasing spending along with lowering taxes. You know, balancing the budget. That is how you grow the economy.
I am against any additional spending. I have stated multiple times that I have been disappointed in President Obama. The difference between you and me is what harm is really being done. You have yet to quantify how he has single-handedly harm the country.
I never liked Representative Pelosi or any other Liberal Democrat. I do not know how to be more clear about that.
Are you getting flustered Ron? You had numerous spelling problems throughout your post. Please tell me what smart Government spending consists of. We are closing in on $18 Trillion in debt. Government spending has done little to increase the standard of living and the Middle Class is suffering and taxes continue to rise. Liberal Progressive politicians from both parties are responsible. Do you think that Obama’s policies of soaking the rich has helped or harmed job creation in this country. Do you think passing Obamacare has helped or harmed the economy? Do you think the promotion of the entitlement culture has helped or harmed the country. What part of Progressive Socialism do you not understand? Apparently all of it in my estimation. By the way, your tired assertion that you have been “disappointed” in Obama does not cut it with me. You should be outraged as Conservatives are. By the way, Independents also don’t like him much in the last poll I saw last month. I don’t get it Ron, why did you vote for this guy twice? He is not qualified to do any public service and never was, but you fell for the smooth rhetoric and Hope & Change like the other liberals. If you are truly disappointed, how about giving us some things you are disappointed about instead of a milquetoast reply.
I will admit that my typing skills need much to be desired..
Ask President Reagan what smart governemnt spending is. I model my beliefs in what helps an economy recover based on Reaganomics. He had no problem increasing spending and the size of the government to fix the mess he inherited.
What taxes are rising? Not mine and I am definitely middle class and in NY. My tax bill has gone down nearly every year since 2000.
How can you say job ceation has been harmed when we have seen net job growth nerly every month since September 2011? Can you provide data showing that job creation has been harmed?
How is President Obama soaking the rich? Since when does the president autonomously increase taxes?
I have told you multiple times, I VOTED AGAINST MCCAIN/PALIN AND ROMNEY!!!!!!!!!!! Until you can PROVE, which means using actual results and not your opinion or campaign promises, that they would have been better, I will stand by my vote. I know that is impossible, so spare me the rebuttal.
How would Dr. Carson be more qualified to be president than President Obama before he took office? What are his credentials on:
1. Handling the economy
2. Foreign policy
3. Working with a Congress who is out to destroy him
4. Leading on organization with more than 4 million employees
5. Leading any government entity
You criticize President Obama for being unqualified, yet endorse someone who is equally unqualified just because he is Conservative.
I am disappointed in:
Foreign policy decisions
Caving in to Republicans on health care and not pushing for a universal, single-payer system
Benghazi, both the incident and the handling after
Lack of transparency
Is that enough for you?
Ha! Ha! Ha! You are funny Ron. Your Progressivism gives you away. Caving in on Healthcare that is the biggest mess in American History and wanting to replace it with a larger scale VA mess????? Wow, you are something else. There is not enough room in a post to detail all the wrong things this President has done. He is in Denver today having beer in a Pool Hall and doing some fundraising for Udall who isn’t even around for the event. This, while ignoring the huge illegal alien problem on the border. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was trying out some of that legal Marijuana up there. By the way, this President has not been interested in working with Congress since he lost the House in 2010 so he just plans on ruling by the pen from now on.
Still waiting for Dr. Carson’s credentials.
Of my entire post, that is what you respond to? That is the problem I have with you and most Conservatives. You agree with them less than 100% of the time and you are some evil liberal, progressive. That is the reason why there are no real Conservatives on the national stage, they are too divisive.
just continue to sit on the sidelines and complain. That is all Conservatives are really good for.
Still waiting for Dr. Carson’s credentials Ron? He is a world renowned Neurosurgeon with a load of common sense. I hardly think he would have been pushing the Progressive Dream mandated, convoluted Healthcare law your President championed for two years and then lied about it 39 times on tape famously saying – If you like your plan you can keep it, if you like your doctor you can keep him, over and over ad nauseum. As far as other methods of governing, he would have found the best and brightest advisors, not a bunch of political hacks that have no idea how to govern or do the right thing for America. I would have been proud to vote for him and he has more smarts in his little finger than Obama does in his whole body.
Soooooo, he has no more credentials required of someone to be the President of the United States of America than President Obama did prior to being elected.
Shouldn’t he at least hold some political office prior to running for President?
Being the President requires a lot more than common sense and being a renowned neurosurgeon.
But Ron, he wrote a book! I saw it on my library website. Talk about ego. Geez, that man knows no bounds.
Get off my Yard!!!
Please explain and defend the lack of leadership your President displays every day of the week. Even a lot of Democratic leaders are running from him. Why isn’t Udall with him on the fundraiser in Colorado? Why does Kay Hagen in NC avoid him like the plague? I don’t know one Senator or Rep who has invited him to campaign for them. Mary Landrieu in La doesn’t want him down there either. You made a big mistake twice and just won’t admit it. Obviously, you don’t pay self employment tax or you would have noticed the tax increase. Businessmen all over the country noticed it and it is quite apparent with every quarterly paid. I have asked you many times to wake up, but it is a futile gesture since you prefer to slumber for the entire 8 years.
So Ron, You say someone should hold elective office before running for President. You mean holding an office in a State Senate and voting present and authoring no legislation and then running for President the minute he gets elected to the US Senate? Is that the kind of experience required? Being managed and told what to do by the infamous George Soros and the far left crowd? Perhaps it is time someone gained the office who is not beholden to special interests and will do the right thing for America. It would take about a month to reverse all the recent Executive Orders and he would get writers cramp.
Until your renounce your citizenship and move to another country, President Obama is as much your president as mine, period.
I am not a blind apologist for President Obama and will NEVER defend his lack of leadership. I have yet to figure out why you are looking for me to defend him. All I have said is that when I voted for him, I believed he was the best option available. No one has yet to prove me wrong because it is impossible. In addition, I do not think, based on actual data and statistics, that he has been nearly as detrimental to the country as you try to make it seem.
You are the one who constantly criticizes President Obama for his lack of experience, yet endorse someone who has less experience in the political arena than he did. Shouldn’t Dr. Carson prove he has what it takes to be effective as a public servant first?
Do you think one person, even the president, can change the culture in the political world? If elected, Dr. Carson will not be a dictator and will need to work with lobbyists, special interests, and shady politicians on both sides. If he does not, he will not get anything done. Like it or not, that is how it works.
Ron, please try to focus. Why don’t we hone in on one key point of your post? You asked if one person could change the culture of political discourse. One person did, your President. Remember in 2008 these famous words – We live in the greatest country in the world. Join me as we “fundamentally” change it. Then, he went right down that road with every policy decision, hired every radical he could find to fill his administration and it has been a train wreck ever since. You know, there is a good reason why he was voted worst President since WW2. Never in this country’s history have we had such a radical President as this one. If you think this guy has been good for the country and has done the right things to bring peace and prosperity and if you think he has the intellect and proclivity to lead, you are way out there in never never land.
HE HAS NOT DONE THAT!! Political discourse has not changed since he has been elected. It has been this contentious since President Clinton was in office. You said, “By the way, this President has not been interested in working with Congress since he lost the House in 2010 so he just plans on ruling by the pen from now on.” Were you OK with Mitch McConnell professing that the Republican party’s number one priority was to make President Obama a one-term president soon after he took office? It sounds like they had no desire to work with him well before the 2010 election. Let’s see what kind of a hypocrtite you really are.
I do not think he has done great things, nor has he done the damage you and other lemmings on the right proclaim. It is a bunch of empty rhetoric with no basis in fact.
You complain about how divisive the country is now. What have you or any other Conservatives done, outside of insulting anyone who does agree with you 100%, to bring the country together?
He was also voted the 4th best president since WWII in the same poll. What does that tell you? It tells me that polls are worthless.
Agent – Obama should have landed in Texas by now. Someone here suggested that they should drive him by the “grassy knoll”. I know that was bad, but he’s such a scourge on this nation it’s hard not to make bad jokes about him.
Wish Ben Carson would run for president. I don’t think the morons on welfare (50% of our population) welfare would ever buy into his message. They don’t want to make it on their own they are tied to Obama’s teat.
Thanks for the comment Perplexed. You have a very good moniker by the way. I am “perplexed” that Ron doesn’t get it and stubbornly tries to defend Obama’s policies and blames Republicans for his dismal failures. If Dr. Ben were running, the libs would call him an Uncle Tom who sold out his race just like they did with Clarence Thomas with the Supreme Court. Dr. Ben is one with a very high IQ and Common Sense as well, something we have not enjoyed in a President for the past 6 years. Leftist ideology is never a good thing for this country. I do give him credit for fundamentally changing America —- for the worse.
Ron, I wish you could get as worked up against this President as you do with me. Are you totally blind or have you been brainwashed by the Liberal Establishment? The reason why McConnell made his statement was he had Obama already figured out and he was right. The evidence is spread all over the news just about daily. The thing about Conservatives is that we want the Constitution followed and a Commander in Chief to faithfully execute the laws of the land. Your Constitutional professor had openly complained about the Constitution and the fact it told him what he couldn’t do rather than what he could do. That is why he has trampled on it on a regular basis and is trying to rule by the pen now. Please give me the % of voters that think he is the best President in the same poll. It is statistically irrelevant.
Exactly how would getting worked up against this president make a difference? Oh yeah, it wouldn’t.
See the complete results of the poll here, http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2056
He garnered 8% of the votes for the best which puts him in 4th place after Reagan (35%), Clinton (18%) and Kennedy (15%). That means 3 of the 4 best presidents since WWII were Democrats. Even Carter, the worst president of the bunch in my opinion, receive more votes than Nixon, Ford or GW Bush. Do you still believe in polls?
You Conservatives want the Constitution followed up until the point where it goes against what you believe. Please tell me why Conservatives are against gay marriage based SOLELY on a legal basis without ignoring the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Go ahead, I dare you.
Please provide some specific examples of how, “he has trampled on it on a regular basis and is trying to rule by the pen now.”, that are different from any other president before him? He has still issued far fewer EOs or recess appointments that President Reagan. Was he also trampling over the Constitution or trying to get things done with a Congress controlled by Democrats?
Even this doctored poll could not make Obama look good. Did you notice the states that were polled, almost all heavy Blue States. I wonder what the scores would have been had the poll been done in all Red States. The negatives would have been overwhelming across the board for the economy, foreign affairs, governance style, caring about what happens to the folks etc. This President is uncaring, disinterested, bored and on top of all, incompetent. That is a bad combination. As far as trampling on the Constitution, you should really pay attention better. The one that sticks out is unconstitutionally changing a law 23 times after its passage and signature, doing immigration laws of his own by the pen instead of enforcing what we have on the books is another good one. Get this in your head Ron, a President cannot make law, he is charged with faithfully executing the law.
So, the poll is doctored because you do not agree with part of the results? It is your “discredit the source” argument again. Just because you do not agree with the results, does not mean they are not correct.
Of course red states dio not like President Obama. Funny thing is, they are the ones who have the least to complain about since their economies are doing the best.if the economy is solely President Obama’s responsibility, they should be applauding him and the blue states should be against him.
Why do you not answer my questions? Do you agree with the EOs and Recess Appointments done by previous presidents, especially the leader in both, President Reagan?
His EOs have all been about how the law is to be executed, not written.
List one EO that changed the law, just one.
Do I agree with President Obama or any other president issuing EOs or Recess Appointments, NO!!!
I am still waiting to hear about Dr Carson’s executive experience, foreign policy experience, economic experience, experience selecting competent advisors, and any other experience that makes him more experienced than President Obama was.
So Ron, taking a poll in heavily Blue States who voted for Obama is somehow a good poll? How insightful of you! I hate to tell you this, but Republican governors- I think 36 at last count are responsible for economic growth in their states. They actually know how to govern, promote growth, lower taxes, provide incentives for employers to move to their state. Just think how fast the economy would recover if Blue State governors acted similarly. Heavy taxation, regulation is a big burden coupled with the Feds and their tax and spend Keynsian theories have really held the economy back. What executive experience did Obama have prior to getting elected? He was basically just a campaigner with smooth rhetoric which was appealing to non-thinkers like you who swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Why not pick from the three dozen Republican governors who do have executive experience running a state government. I think they might be better at it than an empty suit politician from Illinois.
Thank you for making my point. The current economic conditions have NOTHING to do with who is president.
I will take any of those Republican governors over President Obama or Dr. Carson if they keep their Conservative beliefs on social issues to themselves and not try to turn this country into Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan or any other country that tells their people how to live their lives or take await liberties.
Still waiting for you to tell me why Conservatives are against gay marriage based SOLELY on a legal basis without ignoring the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. Also, how about Dr Carson’s executive experience, foreign policy experience, economic experience, experience selecting competent advisors, and any other experience that makes him more experienced than President Obama was.
I never said President Obama had any executive experience, I am just waiting for you to provide Dr. Carson’s. If you want me to vote for him, ad I am not against voting for him at this point, you need to convince me based on his EXPERIENCE, not ideology.
My, you are a persistent troll aren’t you Ron? You started off criticizing my guess that 400 comments would be breached by Monday night and went on from there. Nothing penetrates that skull, does it? By the way, you left off about 60 countries we don’t want to become. How about Cuba and all the South American countries and throw in Mexico to boot. I am not going to get into a Gay Marriage fight with you. Leave it alone! Republican candidates should also leave out social issues when campaigning. The trolls on the left will crucify them if they say marriage is between one man and one woman.
You apparently are still hung up on Dr. Carson. I really don’t care if he has executive experience running a governmental entity or not. His intellect, morals and common sense would be a very positive thing for this country. There is no common sense with anything in government today. There is just political ideology going the wrong way on a freeway. Pretty soon, there is going to be a big pileup. Perhaps you should listen to the man sometime before you condemn him. Try googling him and see what he has to say. You might actually be impressed as I was. Just joking, I know you would not be because he stands for things that you don’t.
As Bob does from time to time, as a side note, there is plenty of info on Dr. Ben on Google and he currently has a new book out that is already a best seller. It is titled One Nation. If you don’t want to get it, you can read some excerpts and see where he is coming from. The Common Sense may be too much for you to absorb, however.
I am not hung up on Dr. Carson, I am trying to get you to see that, outside of political ideology, he is not that much different from President Obama. I have this sense that some on the right, not necessarily you, are pushing for Dr. Carson to show that you are not against President Obama due to his race. You know, as well as I do, Dr. Carson has zero chance of even getting the Republican nomination, yet alone a real opportunity to be elected president. He will be another Herman Cain.
You said about Dr. Carson, “I really don’t care if he has executive experience running a governmental entity or not. His intellect, morals and common sense would be a very positive thing for this country.”. That is pretty much what the left was saying about President Obama before he was elected and look where that got us. President Obama also wrote books that inspired many people.
I have listened to Dr. Carson and have googled him. I am very impressed with his story and believe he could do great things in a certain capacity. Unfortunately, he has no more qualifications than President Obama and we need more than another intelligent, came from nowhere to become successful person to help this country. We need someone with proven leadership and true executive experience in the public sector.
Getting an early start, right Ron? I have a sense that you are trying to goad me so you can accuse me of being racist. Get one thing straight right now! My objections to Obama is to everything he stands for and policies he has instituted over his tenure. Progressive Socialism, massive Keynsian spending increasing the debt to almost $18 Trillion, lack of transparency aka as lying about anything and everything, an extremely corrupt administration of one scandal after another, almost total incompetence and his apparent inability to learn from his mistakes. If Joe Biden were President (God Forbid), I would be just as vehement against him.
You and Libby have the right to say GW was a bad President if you like. So be it! He still scored higher than the President you voted for twice. I shudder to imagine what the country will look like after two more years of this.
Ron, need I remind you that you voted for Obama’s ideology twice and look at the mess we are in. You also voted for inexperience twice. I say that because the man did not grow into his job and he keeps making the same mistakes over and over and not learning from them. It should have occurred to him at some point that what he was doing wasn’t working, but he has consistently caved to his base and keeps it up. I hope he enjoys his 15 day vacation to Martha’s vineyard in August. That should run us $4-5mil.
I know that even if your ojections about President Obama were race-based you would never admit to it. However, do you think some on the right have racist feelings toward him?
I never said President GW Bush was a bad president. I believe he put forth his best effort as our duly elected president. I will point out that the economy became worse and neared collapse during his presidency, but I do not blame hime. Just like I do not give credit to President Obama for the recovery nor credit for a trend in the reduction of government spending during his term.
Go to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-spending and change the range to 1981 – 2014 and tell me what the trend in government spending has been during each of the presidents terms since 1981. I dare you. How can you say there is massive Keyesian spending during a time of decreasing spending? Was President Reagan engaging in massive Keynesian spending as federal spending and the number of federal employees increased each year he was in office?
You complain about how often President Obama has lied, yet spread your own lies.
Need I remind you that I voted against the Republican ideology twice? If your party keeps believing that people, especially Independents, were voting for President Obama because they fell for some slogan and not against the Republican candidate, you will keep losing the White House. Until the Republican Party abandons the extreme right position on social issues they can forget about getting any Republican, especially Conservative elected president.
Still trying Ron? One might think Obama is creating a surplus by holding spending down. The charts you show seem to omit deficit spending of over $6 Trillion new debt in just a few years of this Presidency. How do you account for that? How about that Stimulus that wasn’t a Stimulus for nearly a trillion? How did it stimulate the economy? How many shovel ready jobs did it create? Keep on spreading your lies about Obama’s prowess on governing. Most Americans absent you have gotten the message now and many Democrats and Independents have bailed on him and you are still a loyal lemming trying to justify this terrible governance and ideology driven administration.
Where I am spreading lies about President Obama’s prowess on governing?
Simple question: Is spending increasing or decreasing?
Please list all of the preidents who did not govern with deficit spending? The last Republican president do accomplish this feat was President Eisenhower in 1957.
I guess he is going to have trouble getting re-elected in 2016 with all of the Democrats and Inddependents abandoning him. To be honest, I am glad he will not be an option in 2016. I am hoping the Republicans can present a candidate with broad appeal who believes ALL Americans should have the same freedoms and liberties. If they can avoid social issues, I would be happy to vote for a Republican again.
Ron, I will answer your simple question when you answer my several questions. Please explain how this country is collecting record revenues due to tax increases and yet still runs close to a $500 billion deficit. Please give me an example of a budget passed in the past 6 years by Congress and signed into effect. You can’t because there has been no budgets although the Constitution calls for a budget each year. Obama doesn’t even bother now since the last one he proposed was voted down 100-0 by the Senate. Even Dirty Harry knew that was impossible to pass and he even voted against it. To be honest, we all know Obama can’t run anymore, but he is sure poisoning the well for future Democrats including Hillary who keeps stepping into it by first saying she was broke, then saying she was not that well off with $100 million in the bank. Who else do they have that could get elected? I guess they could run Charlie Rangel and running mate Maxine Waters. Wouldn’t that be a pair.
How many of my questions have you answered, yet you have the audacity to hold another hostage until I answer more of your questions. OK, I’ll play the game.
1. Please explain how this country is collecting record revenues due to tax increases and yet still runs close to a $500 billion deficit. I don’t know.
2. Please give me an example of a budget passed in the past 6 years by Congress and signed into effect. You answered yourself so I am not sure why you asked.
3.Who else do they have that could get elected? I don’t know, maybe nobody.
Now, answer my questions:
1. Is spending increasing or decreasing?
2. Was President Reagan engaging in massive Keynesian spending as federal spending and the number of federal employees increased each year he was in office?
3. Please list all of the presidents who did not govern with deficit spending?
4. Do you think some on the right have racist feelings toward President Obama?
5. Since President Reagan issued far fewer EOs or recess appointments that President Obama, was he also trampling over the Constitution or just trying to get things done with a Congress controlled by Democrats?
6. Provide one EO that changed the law, just one.
1. Is spending increasing or decreasing?
2. Was President Reagan engaging in massive Keynesian spending as federal spending and the number of federal employees increased each year he was in office?
3. Please list all of the presidents who did not govern with deficit spending?
4. Do you think some on the right have racist feelings toward President Obama?
5. Since President Reagan issued far more EOs or recess appointments than President Obama, was he also trampling over the Constitution or just trying to get things done with a Congress controlled by Democrats?
6. Provide one EO that changed the law, just one.
Ron, it really isn’t necessary to hit the reply button twice. I know you are flustered so my advice is to go home, take a tranquilizer and chill out. You aren’t winning.
Since you have no answers on any of my questions, is that the best you got? You have no clue why we are still running huge deficits with record revenue????? What economic theory have you studied? 1. Spending continues to go up astronomically and Progressives cannot collect enough taxes to satisfy their voracious appetite for spending. The reason why we don’t have and haven’t had a budget for so many years is they don’t want the American People to know how bad it is. They really like those Continuing Resolutions when a crisis pops up and if Republicans don’t pop right up and pass it, they close the National Parks down. 2. I lived through that era and you didn’t. Carter left such an economic mess and military mess, Reagan had to spend some money to re-build. Had he inherited a reasonable economy and a sound military, that would not have been necessary. He did manage to win the cold war with the Soviet Union, by the way. Later, the economic reforms he proposed kicked in and the economy grew with tax reductions (believe it or not). IRA’s, 401K’s were started by Reagan and people actually started saving again, I know this is foreign to you. Carter was a scary time for all in business and today’s climate is even worse. 3. I agree that Presidents have governed with deficit spending, but Progressives are the culprits and they all wanted a piece of the Federal pie with more entitlements added just about every session. You can’t grow government like it has been done for ages without spending outstripping revenue. It is a terrible trend and has only escalated in recent years, ala $6 Trillion in new debt under Obama. What part of that do you not understand? 4. Are some people on the right racists? You bet. Are some people on the left racists? You bet. 5. EO’s? Name one EO Reagan issued that was harmful to the economy or country. He wasn’t trying to change laws on the books. I agree he had problems with the Tip O’Neil Congress since O’Neil welched on his promise to reign in spending and continued his Progressive ways. I haven’t read all the EO’s that Obama has done and it is voluminous by now. The one that sticks out is re-writing the mandates since a specific time frame was laid out in the law, so he merely changed everything up when it wasn’t workable to him and his signature law was in shambles and the website was totally unworkable and still is. Had enough for this week?
I am winning because the facts are on my side. All you have is a false interpretation of my facts, but none of your own.
Spending is decreasing. If it is increasing, PROVE IT WITH DATA.
I did live through the Carter and Reagan presidencies. Carter actually increased defense spending each year, at a reasonable rate for peace time.
So, you finally admit that President Reagan incorporated some Keynesian principles during his term to help turn around the economy. Welcome to reality. Did President Obama inherit an economic boom? That is called hypocrisy.
Who exactly are these progressives? Anyone who does think like you? That would be 99.999% of the copuntry. This country will NEVER become Conservative so why don’t you just move and quit your complaining.
I am against all EOs regardless of who issues them or for what purpose. Sounds like you pick and choose when it is OK to circumvent Congress if it is for your benefit. More hypocrisy.
You said, “I haven’t read all the EO’s that Obama has done and it is voluminous by now.” Wht do you say about President Reagan who issued 199 more EOs than President Obama?
Your revisionsist histroy is getting really tired. I expexct to see some data with a cited source to prove your are correct on amy of your nonsene. I am done doing your research. It is your turn to do some homework.
Hey Ron, I hate to tell you this, but Liberal Democrats and RINO’s were responsible for the economy Obama inherited just like Reagan inherited from the Carter administration. What did Obama do to reverse the trend except for yet more Keynsian spending ala Stimulus with $6 Trillion added to the debt. You have the gall to say spending has gone down under Obama? Hello? Are you some kind of dufus thinking someone will actually believe that? The national debt was $11 Trillion at the end of the Bush years and all prior Presidents. It is now approaching $18 Trillion after 6 years of Obama. Move to a different country Ron. Your comments are baseless. Perhaps you would be happier in Cuba or Venezuela.
Do you know the difference between debt and spending? Provide one data source that shows SPENDING is increasing. I have provided several that shows spending is decreasing.
I am not into the blame game, I prefer to speak of results.
Do you realize that President Reagan incresed the debt by 186% during his term. In today’s dollars, that is over $6 Trillion and more than all of the presidents before him, combined. I am guessing you are OK with that though.
What impact would there be to the debt and deficit if we were to cut taxes and increase spending?
I will move out of the country when you provide statistical evidence to prove me wrong. I am feeling quite comfortable here.
Ron, I would prefer that you move out of the country sooner rather than later. You would be more comfortable in France, Greece, Italy, but if you prefer the Western Hemisphere, try Venezuela, Peru, Chile, San Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras. Your credibility and Progressive stances on this forum are nil.
I take it that you are unable to prove me wrong with data. Guess I’m staying here.
Ron, the results of Obama’s spending is disastrous to the country. Wake up and smell the roses. You are like Rip Van Winkle who dozed for 20 years.
The only thing that wakes me up is DATA. Since are unable or incapable of providing such, I’ll go back to sleep now.
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