“There are two lessons here. First, the politicization of Obamacare has been mindbendingly thorough. Second, people’s opinions on the law might not improve once the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be bogus, because they’ll just refuse to notice.”
What makes sense about subsidizing someone’s health insurance and then giving them an out of pocket charge of $6,000? Perhaps people that have not noticed the inequity of the program, are just not very smart.
It’s clear that the Insurance Journal has a liberal bias in support of the “Affordable Care Act” since the only example they give in their second lesson is “people’s opinions on the law might not improve once the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be bogus, because they’ll just refuse to notice.” How could you leave out the other (liberal) side of this possible lesson which is, people’s support may not lessen once the promises they’ve heard turn out to be false (like that whole “You can keep your doctor” thing) or the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be true (like that accountability board, aka “death panel” thing), because they’ll refuse to notice. Please try to be objective in the media.
I do not appreciate Obamacare, ACA, PPACA, or whatever you wish to label it. I see tremendous flaws in the program. My health care is not worse than it was three, two or even one year ago. It is not better either. I have seen no impact. You always reiterate the same lines. Have you no other talking points? I don’t think that either side is lying, I think that the perception (statistically) is just split as the article says. Libby’s point was made by you.
The Insurance Journal’s bias in support of the “Affordable Care Act” is obvious since their second lesson only considers that “people’s opinions on the law might not improve once the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be bogus, because they’ll refuse to notice.” Why not mention the other potential outcome of that lesson in which support for the law might not lessen once the warnings they’ve heard (like you won’t be able to keep your doctor) turn out to be true. In fact, there is no doubt that this possible outcome has already occurred just as the warning about the creation of an accountability board (aka “death panel”) to assess the level of care authorized based on patient worthiness rather than patient desire. The Journal should try to be more objective please.
Jack,
I am a Republican. My costs have not changed. I know the plan that I have and what I and the company pay. As I said, I am not a fan of Obamacare. I have no evidence either way to say better or worse. There are a number of arguing points and depending on your slant, you take those. I never said that Obama told the truth, but I have found very few who did in either party. We (the Republicans) are the reason that this passed. We did nothing to improve a health care system that needed improvement. It did not need this, but this was easy when Obama was the only one willing to do anything. We teed this up for him. We can point a finger at him, but there are three pointing back at us.
Dude you don’t even get the fact it was health insurance reform, NOT health care reform. Everyone knows you can walk into a doctors office and pay a lot less when you pay cash instead of using your health insurance. This was simply a way to redistribute wealth from one class to another. PERIOD
Are you kidding? Do you see what the doctors charge before it gets discounted by the insurance carrier? Uninsured people have to pay the full rate. They pay ALOT more than people with health insurance. If they didn’t there would many more people paying their own instead of buying insurance.
I am not kidding. With a deductible of $10,000 I never file a claim on my health ins. I go to the doctor and say I’m paying cash it’s ALOT cheaper. I always like to ask what they would bill the insurance company and its always 2-3 times more. I ALWAYS tell them I’m uninsured when I walk in the door and they ask who my carrier is. That goes for the wife and 3 kids as well. My doctors will never know I have insurance unless the big hits.
I pay over $600 a month for insurance I hope I never have to use. Making your insurance company pay for your birth control pills is what got us here in the first place !!!
If you don’t submit your bills to your insurance carrier, they can’t be counted towards your deductible. That makes you rather stupid, I think.
August 8, 2014 at 5:41 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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Birthghazi!!
August 12, 2014 at 9:15 am
KY jw says:
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You’re being played.
August 12, 2014 at 9:17 am
KY jw says:
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By the way, it is against the law to charge Medicare a different amount than private pay patients. Therefore, providers bill everyone the same and discounts are applied after the fact.
August 12, 2014 at 9:14 am
KY jw says:
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Absolutely not. Doctors and hospitals charge private pay patients the full amount. Insurance companies negotiate payments with the provider, most often at a substantial discount of the base rates.
I don’t know who told you private pay is cheaper, but they lied. (I’m a former billing manager for a hospital and a health care provider)
I am among the folks who lost their healthcare in June 2013 and the plan I replaced it with was terminated in December of 2013. I had to switch doctors in June because the new plan didn’t include my old doctor. The new plan in December 2013 came with a rate increase of 25%.
My first visit to the doctor under the new plan in December had the claim declined because the carrier hadn’t updated the records to the new plan (both plans were with the same carrier).
After 2 months of letters and phone calls, they paid the claim. On July 1, I was notified that the cost of my current plan was going up 39% September 1, I cancelled the coverage.
The cost of my medical care over the past years was less than the cost of the insurance and with the about to be implemented $5000 deductible, it doesn’t pay to keep it.
As far as a fine/penalty whatever they want to call it, I won’t be paying that either. For the first time in my adult life, I don’t have health insurance thanks to the PPACA.
And, another option the author missed in the article was that what was supposed to occur in 2014 didn’t happen, many of the provisions that will prove costly were arbitrarily pushed back until after the mid-term elections.
I agree that 2014 in no way represents what the ACA really means to everyone. Too many parts have been postponed or, in the case of birth control, over ruled by SCOTUS. No matter on which side of the argument you stand, you can’t know the full effect yet. Which is very sad.
Is it probable that those receiving subsidies and guaranteed acceptance are more likely to be Democrats or Republicans? This would explain the large difference in experience.
Jack R, I dont really think that Illness has any political affiliation.
It has screwed me that for sure. Wife had to change some docs. Seems there is no max out of pocket as I know she hit her $4000 max and I still have over $5000 sitting on my bill pile. Before this mess, I did have a bunch of group policies – no many, but they all cancelled and I lost that income. 2x the screw job to me. More bills. Less income.
Now my Producer with health issues is looking at dropping his health policy because – even with subsidy – he cant afford it.
Wayne,
I don’t care if you are a Republican or Democrat. I am sorry for this state of affairs. I know that this is happening. Some benefit,some lose. This is what needs to be changed. Best of luck to you.
The author is clearly delusional. Even if things worked out the way he and others wished he still doesn’t understand many of the basic flaws with Obamacare.
1) It doesn’t deal with the main cause for rising insurance rates. And that is the rising cost of providing healthcare. The Dems and liberals falsely assumed the big problem was rising insurance and felt the government could do better by in essence transfering the cost of insurtance to others and not dealing with the cost of healthcare. Didn’t even touch tort reform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HcWd5ifBA&list=FL9lJuRBjktDPY_TeM76IBSw&index=60
2) Millions and millions of people were happy with their healthcare plans. He lied to all of us and said we could keep our plans and then took it away from millions of us.
3) Nearly all of us were happy with our doctors and then he lied again and said we could keep our doctors and then took them away from millions of us.
4) They slipped in billions of additional taxes on savings, investment income and medical device manufacturers. No matter the other parts of Obamacare, those will never go away and to assume people would no longer be upset with such changes is just plain dumb.
5) He forces everybody to buy medical insurance, not everybody wants to buy medical insurance.
6) And down the road as any of us with any intelligence are already aware, this whole thing will blow up much like Social Security and Medicare are right now. By not dealing with the reasons medical care costs more, it is obvious this will happen. To saddle a nation already $17 trillin in debt, $80 trillion in unfunded liabilities and $1 trillion in annual deficits with yet another entitlement progarm makes no sense. But then liberal and Democrats refuse to learn basic math and need to see someting like Detroit before they realize the Treasury is not a bottomless pit of money.
This president has replaced the social contract with a contract of adhesion and uses eminent domain to justify our inability to opt out of said contract. Those longing to deprive others of their property rights consider the ACA victory, while those being deprived of their natural rights see it as tyranny.
“There are two lessons here. First, the politicization of Obamacare has been mindbendingly thorough. Second, people’s opinions on the law might not improve once the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be bogus, because they’ll just refuse to notice.”
As evidenced by discussions of this topic on IJ.
“Premiums will go down $2500 a year and you can keep your doctor”
If you are to freaking stupid to admit those were lies, do you really think they would answer the other questions honestly?
What makes sense about subsidizing someone’s health insurance and then giving them an out of pocket charge of $6,000? Perhaps people that have not noticed the inequity of the program, are just not very smart.
It’s clear that the Insurance Journal has a liberal bias in support of the “Affordable Care Act” since the only example they give in their second lesson is “people’s opinions on the law might not improve once the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be bogus, because they’ll just refuse to notice.” How could you leave out the other (liberal) side of this possible lesson which is, people’s support may not lessen once the promises they’ve heard turn out to be false (like that whole “You can keep your doctor” thing) or the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be true (like that accountability board, aka “death panel” thing), because they’ll refuse to notice. Please try to be objective in the media.
Jack,
I do not appreciate Obamacare, ACA, PPACA, or whatever you wish to label it. I see tremendous flaws in the program. My health care is not worse than it was three, two or even one year ago. It is not better either. I have seen no impact. You always reiterate the same lines. Have you no other talking points? I don’t think that either side is lying, I think that the perception (statistically) is just split as the article says. Libby’s point was made by you.
Crain,
You just proved mine.
If Crain didn’t believe the lies and doesn’t like the ACA, how did he prove your point?
The Insurance Journal’s bias in support of the “Affordable Care Act” is obvious since their second lesson only considers that “people’s opinions on the law might not improve once the warnings they’ve heard turn out to be bogus, because they’ll refuse to notice.” Why not mention the other potential outcome of that lesson in which support for the law might not lessen once the warnings they’ve heard (like you won’t be able to keep your doctor) turn out to be true. In fact, there is no doubt that this possible outcome has already occurred just as the warning about the creation of an accountability board (aka “death panel”) to assess the level of care authorized based on patient worthiness rather than patient desire. The Journal should try to be more objective please.
Jack,
I am a Republican. My costs have not changed. I know the plan that I have and what I and the company pay. As I said, I am not a fan of Obamacare. I have no evidence either way to say better or worse. There are a number of arguing points and depending on your slant, you take those. I never said that Obama told the truth, but I have found very few who did in either party. We (the Republicans) are the reason that this passed. We did nothing to improve a health care system that needed improvement. It did not need this, but this was easy when Obama was the only one willing to do anything. We teed this up for him. We can point a finger at him, but there are three pointing back at us.
Crain-
Dude you don’t even get the fact it was health insurance reform, NOT health care reform. Everyone knows you can walk into a doctors office and pay a lot less when you pay cash instead of using your health insurance. This was simply a way to redistribute wealth from one class to another. PERIOD
Are you kidding? Do you see what the doctors charge before it gets discounted by the insurance carrier? Uninsured people have to pay the full rate. They pay ALOT more than people with health insurance. If they didn’t there would many more people paying their own instead of buying insurance.
Libby-
I am not kidding. With a deductible of $10,000 I never file a claim on my health ins. I go to the doctor and say I’m paying cash it’s ALOT cheaper. I always like to ask what they would bill the insurance company and its always 2-3 times more. I ALWAYS tell them I’m uninsured when I walk in the door and they ask who my carrier is. That goes for the wife and 3 kids as well. My doctors will never know I have insurance unless the big hits.
I pay over $600 a month for insurance I hope I never have to use. Making your insurance company pay for your birth control pills is what got us here in the first place !!!
LOL! MY birth control pills? You funny.
If you don’t submit your bills to your insurance carrier, they can’t be counted towards your deductible. That makes you rather stupid, I think.
Birthghazi!!
You’re being played.
By the way, it is against the law to charge Medicare a different amount than private pay patients. Therefore, providers bill everyone the same and discounts are applied after the fact.
Absolutely not. Doctors and hospitals charge private pay patients the full amount. Insurance companies negotiate payments with the provider, most often at a substantial discount of the base rates.
I don’t know who told you private pay is cheaper, but they lied. (I’m a former billing manager for a hospital and a health care provider)
I am among the folks who lost their healthcare in June 2013 and the plan I replaced it with was terminated in December of 2013. I had to switch doctors in June because the new plan didn’t include my old doctor. The new plan in December 2013 came with a rate increase of 25%.
My first visit to the doctor under the new plan in December had the claim declined because the carrier hadn’t updated the records to the new plan (both plans were with the same carrier).
After 2 months of letters and phone calls, they paid the claim. On July 1, I was notified that the cost of my current plan was going up 39% September 1, I cancelled the coverage.
The cost of my medical care over the past years was less than the cost of the insurance and with the about to be implemented $5000 deductible, it doesn’t pay to keep it.
As far as a fine/penalty whatever they want to call it, I won’t be paying that either. For the first time in my adult life, I don’t have health insurance thanks to the PPACA.
And, another option the author missed in the article was that what was supposed to occur in 2014 didn’t happen, many of the provisions that will prove costly were arbitrarily pushed back until after the mid-term elections.
I agree that 2014 in no way represents what the ACA really means to everyone. Too many parts have been postponed or, in the case of birth control, over ruled by SCOTUS. No matter on which side of the argument you stand, you can’t know the full effect yet. Which is very sad.
Is it probable that those receiving subsidies and guaranteed acceptance are more likely to be Democrats or Republicans? This would explain the large difference in experience.
Jack R, I dont really think that Illness has any political affiliation.
It has screwed me that for sure. Wife had to change some docs. Seems there is no max out of pocket as I know she hit her $4000 max and I still have over $5000 sitting on my bill pile. Before this mess, I did have a bunch of group policies – no many, but they all cancelled and I lost that income. 2x the screw job to me. More bills. Less income.
Now my Producer with health issues is looking at dropping his health policy because – even with subsidy – he cant afford it.
Not to mention the effect on the job market….
Wayne,
I don’t care if you are a Republican or Democrat. I am sorry for this state of affairs. I know that this is happening. Some benefit,some lose. This is what needs to be changed. Best of luck to you.
The author is clearly delusional. Even if things worked out the way he and others wished he still doesn’t understand many of the basic flaws with Obamacare.
1) It doesn’t deal with the main cause for rising insurance rates. And that is the rising cost of providing healthcare. The Dems and liberals falsely assumed the big problem was rising insurance and felt the government could do better by in essence transfering the cost of insurtance to others and not dealing with the cost of healthcare. Didn’t even touch tort reform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HcWd5ifBA&list=FL9lJuRBjktDPY_TeM76IBSw&index=60
2) Millions and millions of people were happy with their healthcare plans. He lied to all of us and said we could keep our plans and then took it away from millions of us.
3) Nearly all of us were happy with our doctors and then he lied again and said we could keep our doctors and then took them away from millions of us.
4) They slipped in billions of additional taxes on savings, investment income and medical device manufacturers. No matter the other parts of Obamacare, those will never go away and to assume people would no longer be upset with such changes is just plain dumb.
5) He forces everybody to buy medical insurance, not everybody wants to buy medical insurance.
6) And down the road as any of us with any intelligence are already aware, this whole thing will blow up much like Social Security and Medicare are right now. By not dealing with the reasons medical care costs more, it is obvious this will happen. To saddle a nation already $17 trillin in debt, $80 trillion in unfunded liabilities and $1 trillion in annual deficits with yet another entitlement progarm makes no sense. But then liberal and Democrats refuse to learn basic math and need to see someting like Detroit before they realize the Treasury is not a bottomless pit of money.
Libby, your logic is as bad as your spelling
It must be damned good considering I’m a National Spelling Bee Champion. Thank you.
The word “alot” come up in the contest?
That’s all you got?
Perhaps if Obama stopped changing the law, pretending he is Congress, things might settle down?
He has illegally modified the express language of the ACA, changing dates that were repeatedly stated in the Act.
Where in the Constitution does it give the President the right to change express provisions of a lawfully passed law?
This president has replaced the social contract with a contract of adhesion and uses eminent domain to justify our inability to opt out of said contract. Those longing to deprive others of their property rights consider the ACA victory, while those being deprived of their natural rights see it as tyranny.