Jack,so much dishonesty in this dumbed down, idiotic society. Insurance companies have been known to lie to agents about what they are doing with Predictive Modeling, Price Optimization, Re-tiering, re-scoring customers, discrimination against certain classes of insureds etc. It is really nauseating and agents have a tough time explaining what is going on.
You were never on my lawn Obama lover. Don’t you ever call me lazy you sleazebag cubicle knat. Someone who can’t do should never criticize someone who has done.
I just call ’em as I see ’em. You want the carriers to do what you want to make your own life easier. Try getting educated about insurance and become an insurance professional instead of regurgitating word tracks.
You said, “Someone who can’t do should never criticize someone who has done.” Try taking your own advice.
March 18, 2016 at 1:16 pm
Drumpf says:
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DRUMPFFFFFF!!!!!
El Capitan Planeta! Thank you for making that comment. I appreciate the humor.
March 21, 2016 at 2:17 pm
Captain Planet says:
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Drumpf,
No problem, but it looks like Agent had it censored. The guy says he believes in The Constitution but evidently doesn’t appreciate freedom of speech. Typical Teahadist.
March 23, 2016 at 8:59 am
Captain Planet says:
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Drumpf,
Not a problem, but it looks like Agent had it censored. The guy says he believes in The Constitution but evidently doesn’t appreciate freedom of speech. Typical Teahadist.
March 21, 2016 at 1:06 pm
UW says:
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For once I will agree with you; I believe you have a very difficult time explaining what is going on to your customers.
Especially with all those young Millenials and their hippity hop and reefer mmadness, who just need to get off your lawn!!
Was reading “Pioneer Girl,” which came out recently. I believe the line was, to the the effect of, in regards to doing business with the railroad companies, “If you’re not cheating them, you’re not being honest.”
So what I’m gathering from this article is that young people want to pay the government less while demanding that big business and the wealthy pay more?
It’s amazing, Agent…..notice how trolls have kept hitting the “dislike” button on any comment of ours from the last couple of weeks? Looks like we’ve been striking a nerve with those who still live at home with their parents.
Hi Supreme, yes, I am Scotch/Irish so I like the day too. When these idiotic Progressives get their feelings hurt and see their ideology going down the drain, they fall on the floor kicking and screaming and down vote us ad nauseum. I made a simple one page reply last week and had 97 dislikes within an hour.
he who has downvoted posts to hide in the past them should not be upset when others treat him the same way
March 17, 2016 at 4:27 pm
confused says:
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let me fix that
he who has downvoted posts to hide them in the past should not be upset when others treat him the same way
March 18, 2016 at 1:28 pm
Godot says:
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It has nothing to do with getting feelings hurt or seeing ideology going down the drain. I think it’s a dislike of you and your negativity and attitude. Just my opinion – that’s what irritates me the most.
March 21, 2016 at 5:55 pm
UW says:
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You dumb—– need to learn the definition of a troll. The only person who is close is Agent, but he’s just dumb and uninformed, not a troll.
God, you sad, pathetic, losers. I’ve never seen so much hatred directed towards other people before in my life. Seriously.
For those who will say that I’m a hypocrite for writing the above, just piss off. It really does not make any sense defending my position or ideology anymore when losers attack attack attack. You’re all blind, a complete and utter waste of time, and just disgusting human beings.
There was a time when it was kinda fun to let off some steam during the day and escape to a land where everyone is hiding behind a user name. Then it turned.
You people began to attack others like the refugees you support who rape & pillage. You’re not entertaining, you’re just gross and show your yellow fangs when someone writes a differing opinion. I would hate to see how you are in real life. I can guarantee no one is proud of you, and because of that you troll on some fucking comments section on an insurance website (of all places) to bring you back to the days when you bullied hard. It’s pathetic.
So, no one will give a shit, but I’m signing off. I have a career to focus on and a team to continue to grow, and life’s too short to be in the company of morons.
Agent, best of luck. All who have straddled the fence, thanks for bringing some fun, spirited debates. And to the libtards: Karma is around the corner, and I sure hope you change your ways or at least shut your mouths long enough so the worst in life doesn’t continue to happen to you.
Adios! Mwah!
March 22, 2016 at 11:19 am
Agent says:
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Hey Supreme, great post. There are about 4 or 5 really pathetic losers on this site who know nothing except hate against those that disagree with them and their agenda. Name calling, nasty insults are the order of the day. I wonder why their parents didn’t raise them right or teach them right from wrong. Perhaps they got a full dose of hate in college from liberal professors and were brain washed. In any case, the Bible verse Ecclesiastes 10:2 applies to them in spades.
March 22, 2016 at 11:50 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
You just described yourself. When have you ever shown anything but hatred toward me? Even when I try to extend a sincere compliment, you find a way to insult me.
I have tried multiple times to extend an olive branch, but you refuse to have a civil debate.
March 22, 2016 at 1:48 pm
UW says:
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Ha Supreme, that’s rich. You bitch and whine about people being sooo mean in a post after you just wrote about “those who still live at home with their parents”. Now you’re leaving because people contradict you when you defend your positions. You forget to mention, in your cry for fake civility (because you don’t seem to have a problem being rude, or ever call out Agent’s bullshit) you forget to mention that you routinely call people libtards, lie over and over saying Trump is a liberal in disguise, support Cruz, who is almost as bad and supports a pastor who has called for the execution of gays, calls people uninformed idiots but never uses actual facts, calls all liberals uninformed morons full of hate, has asked about my non-existant ex-wife as a slur, constantly says people must be disappointed with other people as a slur, and on and on.
So good-riddance, idiot, but know all you really care about is that people have finally had enough of coming here and seeing 3-5 outright dolts posting the same ignorant BS over and over, and you can’t stand or handle it. Bye, bye, moron; your parents you live with must be sooooo disappointed you can’t handle interacting with people who will stand up to you.
Maybe in all your new free time you can crack a book or two that’s not pure right-wing trash, but I doubt it.
March 17, 2016 at 3:50 pm
GoldC says:
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They don’t want to pay the government less; they want to COLLECT from the government (i.e. the rest of us).
GoldC, there are millions getting a refund on Federal Taxes after not paying anything in, kind of like Ron. He expects the real taxpayers to pay his taxes for him and he gets off scot free. Meanwhile, Obama and minions continue to rape businesses.
Go get educated about tax laws. I do pay taxes. It just so happens that, since I live my life the way Republicans want me to, my deductions; children (no abortions), home mortgage interest (responsibly paying back my debt), graduate student loan interest (educating myself in order to my life through hard work), and charitable contributions (helping my fellow man so the government does not need to do as much to help them), erase my Federal Income Tax liability.
Go back to collecting those commission checks that your minimum wage staff does all of the work to earn.
So you still have student debt after all these years? What are you, about 50? Can’t you get Obama to forgive those student loans? He should do it for people that voted for him twice. Might as well get on another gravy train, right? By the way, my staff makes more than you do and they pay their taxes just like I do.
March 18, 2016 at 2:04 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
It was for my Master’s degree that I finished 5 years ago. Many people complete those a little later in life. Don’t worry, I just finished paying them off so my tax bill will be higher next year. More money for the government, just what you want.
I still want to know why you are so hung up on how much I pay in taxes. I am just doing what your pal Mitt Romney said we should all do, pay only what the law requires. Aren’t you glad I am giving more money to private companies, like my insurance agent, and less to the government?
How can you say that when you do not even know how much money I make?
March 18, 2016 at 5:16 pm
Michael says:
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Ron, what a silly question you ask of Agent re: why he’s so hung up on the tax issue. I’ve only been reading this forum for the past six months and have noticed that he is only able to regurgitate the same ten items / conversations. Your tax liability just happens to be one of them.
March 21, 2016 at 11:31 am
UW says:
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Big shock one of the dumbest people I’ve ever encountered is against education. Big shock! Total idiot.
March 21, 2016 at 1:15 pm
Agent says:
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Ron, you have to be the most uneducated Masters degree guy on this blog. Perhaps you should have taken Common Sense 101 in college. There was another guy named Stan on this blog who seems to have disappeared or is disguised as UW or Confused. He had three degrees and wondered why he couldn’t get a job in this industry. It might have been his attitude. He sure liked to rail against employers, didn’t he? I know a few CPCU’s in this industry. It stands for Can’t Produce, Can’t Underwrite.
March 21, 2016 at 1:30 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
CPCU stands for Chartered Property Casualty Underwriter and it is the gold standard of insurance designations. The ones who say it stands for Can’t Produce, Can’t Underwrite are either jealous or not intelligent or dedicated enough to complete the designation.
March 22, 2016 at 5:38 pm
FFA says:
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Agent is dead on right. I know plenty of people that get my tax money when they haven’t got off the couch except to cash their unemployment checks. Cant call them refunds because they never paid into the system.
FFA, I have missed you being on this blog the past few days. As usual, the haters from the left downthumb my comments since they don’t know how to argue the merits of their belief system. UW has to be the ugliest poster ever on this forum. Nasty, Nasty, Nasty. He definitely didn’t have the best childhood growing up. It is really sad.
March 23, 2016 at 2:52 pm
FFA says:
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This Demo account has taken a lot of time. Not to mention the tax matters I am finishing off. 140 + vinyl Albums to look up values on. UGH!!
March 24, 2016 at 12:32 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, I have known a number of CPCU’s over the course of years. Not one of them could produce a volume of business to a carrier. They are educated idiots and have very little rapport with real business owners who don’t speak their language. Their only value is to teach insurance. Those who can’t do – teach.
March 24, 2016 at 1:22 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
I am not exactly sure why you feel the need to insult over 40,000 insurance professionals.
To be fair, the CPCU program is not designed for agents, brokers or producers. That is what the CIC is for.
However, if you ever wanted to actually learn and understand the business and operations of the insurance industry, you should look into the CPCU program. Maybe then we would have far fewer disagreements.
March 18, 2016 at 3:35 pm
Agent says:
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Godot, thank you for putting Confused in his place. We appreciate it.
Sorry is not what you are. By the way, your comment was directly below his. I believe you are spending too much time admiring Confused, Ron, Planet. Are you really that far left or are you misguided? If I am insulted or trolled, I will give back in kind.
March 18, 2016 at 4:55 pm
Confused says:
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Godot – except for Agent, we all know you you posted your reply in its proper place by hitting the reply button that was ‘attached’ to Agent’s comment.
March 18, 2016 at 4:21 pm
Confused says:
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Too bad he was actually talking to YOU Agent!
You – these idiotic Progressives get their feelings hurt…
Godot – It has nothing to do with getting feelings hurt…
He responded to your comment about hurt feelings. I said nothing about feelings in my post, so his reply was not directed at me.
Godot, thank you for putting Agent in his place. We appreciate it.
I don’t think there is such a thing as putting Agent in his place – see his response above (babbling as it may be). I can’t put my finger on why I let his posts and demeanor aggravate me as much as they do. I think it is a lack of tolerance for negativity, ignorance, and his being totally so unaware and acknowledging of his actions. He’s the bully from grade school that is so frustrating because he always has an asinine retort. He just has to be aggressive and ‘all knowing’ about everything. Everyone has a label, he can characterize a person by a single sentence, etc., etc. Much like a train wreck, I am disgusted by his posts but can’t help but read them to satisfy the curiousity. It’s sad yet amazing at the same time.
March 21, 2016 at 12:23 pm
UW says:
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Goody, it’s probably his stupidity combined with his sense of entitlement and being totally oblivious to how wrong/stupid he is. Based on everything he has said, he’s not competent to hold any real job that requires thinking, but he is a nasty dolt who thinks he’s right about everything, when he’s been wrong about literally everything I’ve ever seen him write that can be fact checked.
Also, I assure you Agent was not a bully in school; if anything he was bullied. He is the perfect representation of modern conservatives. He has no knowledge about anything, is at least pretty racist, and more likely an ardent racist, who pretends he isn’t, and might actually believe it. He has no appreciation for when he says something stupid and totally wrong, like when he predicted Bush would win right before he dropped out, or his ignorance about insurance, or economics, or science, etc. He will be all about Trump in a couple months, because Trump is a nationalist, fascist, who pretends to be a populist, but is really the face of aggrieved, old, male, White America, and they are terrified about the cell phones, Millenials, blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, other brown people, liberals, communists, Muslims, etc., who they think are out to get them. Thankfully people like him are becoming less relevant literally every day, which is why they are melting down, their party is melting down, and why Agent is clearly in a full-time blown meltdown. Good riddance.
March 22, 2016 at 1:00 pm
Agent says:
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Ron, you wore out your welcome with me a very long time ago. Your insincere compliments quickly disintegrate into another insult time after time. Bob & I have tried to educate you several hundred times and it goes in one ear and out the other without hitting home. I gave up and Bob still gives it a try from time to time, also without results. You are a born Progressive and double Obama voter so we will never see eye to eye on anything. Progressivism is a disease for which there is no apparent cure.
Since we do not see eye to eye on anything, I will have to assume that you are for higher taxes, bigger government involvement to people’s lives, reduced freedoms, and unlimited terms, health care and pensions for elected officials.
Ron, you must have gone all the way back to your regurgitated replies that you have been spouting for several years now. Thank you for proving me right about you. You are a Progressive from the word go and love big Government Spending, lower or no taxation for yourself as long as businessmen like me pick up the tab for you. As an Obama lover, you like his taking over more control of our lives via Obamacare and more taxes and regulation of business. It is a good thing that so many Progressives have been defeated the past few elections. Time for the Republicans to take complete control after the short timer leaves. He is down there in Cuba playing chummy with the Castro brothers as we speak. Perhaps they will give him a case of cigars to bring home so he can lift all those sanctions.
March 22, 2016 at 4:59 pm
Agent says:
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As the great Yogi Berra once said:
It’s like Deja Vu all over again! One track mind.
March 23, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
Nobody take you seriously because you are a hypocritical tool.
March 17, 2016 at 10:50 am
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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If you like your plan, you can keep your plan! If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!
The cost of health insurance will decrease by $2500 on average.
Annually or monthly? Because my financial status which didn’t change from 2014 to 2015 was suddenly considered to be double that allowed by the updated ACA guidelines for the size of my family and I would have to pay over $12,000 – that I wasn’t earning in the first place!
You should talk to FFA sometime about how he has been hurt by Obamacare. Nancy said she had to pass it so we could see what was in it. Progressives were saying when it was first passed that most of it hadn’t even kicked in yet and why scream about it? Hey, I think it has kicked in now like we predicted it would. Nancy and her followers including Harry Reid should have been tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail.
How many people died of ‘no care’ before ACA? There are ERs for those who are sick and uninsured. There is the VA for veterans who can get adequate and expedient health care…. oh, wait! Never mind that last comment. You are right about DEATHS before the ACA – due to government administration failures in the VA. Now, expand that ineptitude to a scenario where government controls ALL healthcare issues… YIKES!
If someone actually addresses the COSTS of healthcare instead of SUBSIDIZING THEM, the problems would be greatly reduced. Hint: that won’t happen when the government is involved.
PS I’ve visited a VA hospital/ clinic many times.
March 18, 2016 at 1:04 pm
Agent says:
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Yogi, the VA can’t even be bothered to answer their Suicide Watch line. No telling how many died because they couldn’t talk to a counselor.
March 18, 2016 at 2:11 pm
GoldC says:
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There were many, many, MANY more insureds whose coverage terms were downgraded while premiums increased than uninsured Americans whom the ACA has helped. So don’t go all “you pro-lifers” on us.
March 21, 2016 at 12:08 pm
UW says:
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Agent, maybe if Republicans didn’t insist on destroying government and refunding everything they could pay people to man the phones after thousands of troops came back from Bush and the Republican’s illegal Iraq War. Republicans cut $1.4 billion from Obama’s budget for the VA.
March 22, 2016 at 5:42 pm
FFA says:
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Havent met one yet Planet. Not one. A bunch of propaganda spread by ofnbama. But not one walking down main st America.
March 18, 2016 at 1:02 pm
insurance_guy says:
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let us not kid ourselves, insurance executives don’t have a problem lying either.
insurance_guy, Ron says the companies are without blemish, never lie, do their Predictive Modeling, Price Optimization schemes, re-score, re-tier, discriminate and nothing wrong with that. It is the agents who are at fault, right? Then, they say they want to grow when they do reverse growing when agents move their book.
If you could stop misquoting me, putting words in my mouth, and /or taking what I say out of context, you just might gain some credibility. However, I have a feeling you have no interest in being credible. It would destroy your entire narrative.
Do you even understand the principles of insurance pricing…or the theory of insurance in general? I think someone has covered the predictive modeling concept several times before. Move the needle on your broken record. Insurance is a business, the goal for a company is to make money. They cannot make money without analyzing and pricing their products based on experience and exposure. It’s not that hard to grasp.
Michael, spoken like a true modeler. Please tell the class why several states are banning the practice of Price Optimization schemes by companies if there is nothing to it. Allstate was the first caught in this terrible practice and it goes on with other companies as well. It is dishonest and asinine.
No, Agent, I am not a ‘true modeler’. I am an agent with a large national independent firm. I understand the banning of optimization. If you will reread my post, I commented on predictive modeling – the concept related to predicting future losses / exposures / etc. I said the pricing needs to be base don experience and exposure (which is predictive modeling), and didn’t reference supply and demand (or elasticity) which is the price optimization. No sense in trying to explain it further – you don’t get it.
March 21, 2016 at 9:54 am
Agent says:
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Michael, did you not realize that Actuaries and Predictive Modelers thought up the Price Optimization scheme that has affective several million consumers? Did you realize that Predictive Modelers have instituted discrimination against several classes of insureds? I am afraid you are not getting it. If predictive modeling were based on experience and exposure, that might be ok, but they are plugging in so much more with their algorithms that rates are being skewed, always upward whether the risk deserves it or not.
March 21, 2016 at 11:00 am
Ron says:
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Agent,
I can guarantee you that neither actuaries nor predictive modelers think up schemes. They only use data to support product changes to file for approval or predict the likelihood of future losses. The schemes come from management.
Can you name one state that has allowed Price Optimization? Can you name one person on this blog who has advocated for or at least defended Price Optimization?
For the record, insurance has been discriminating well before your time as an agent. Would you rate a 17 year old the same as a 50 year old, all other factors being equal?
Go back to regurgitating sales word tracks to sell policies and leave the real insurance work to the true professionals.
March 21, 2016 at 11:34 am
UW says:
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Agent, please briefly explain what predictive modeling is and how it is done. Explain probability and risk pools. Thanks.
March 21, 2016 at 10:34 am
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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There are too many posts that simultaneously discuss two distinct pricing practices intended to: 1. price accurately according to risk distinctions and 2. price according to market acceptance of price (Optimization), which is akin to 1. apples & 2. oranges discussions.
Please use proper attention to your handling of ‘orchard fruit’ in this thread. Thank you.
Actuary to management: You know how we can get more rate on our Auto & Home? Management to Actuary: How? Actuary to Management: All we have to do is take all our loyal loss free customers and give them a higher rate and hope it is just below where they will leave. Management to Actuary: That sounds like a good plan. Optimize the tar out of them. Surely, not too many will shop around.
March 21, 2016 at 11:19 am
Ron says:
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Everybody to Agent, stop embarrassing yourself.
March 21, 2016 at 11:35 am
Michael says:
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Thank you, Yogi; you summed up what I was trying to explain to Agent. There is a difference between the Modeling and Optimization; here’s hoping your concise statements clear up the confusion.
March 21, 2016 at 11:49 am
UW says:
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Hey Agent, you f——- dolt, that’s how a Capitalist economy works. I know you want government to regulate the economy so you make as much money as possible for little to no work but that’s not reality. And guess what, dolt? Not too many do shop around if that is done, because they still value the product.
And enough with the “loss free” customers bull—-. Being loss free in the past is not a guarantee of no losses in the future. You sound like the type of person who says you should get your money back if you don’t have losses. You are totally incompetent.
March 21, 2016 at 5:29 pm
Agent says:
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Yogi, how about a famous saying by your namesake?
You have to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going because you might not get there.
Another one: When you get to a fork in the road, take it!
March 21, 2016 at 6:04 pm
UW says:
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Most of Agent’s education, and I use that term very loosely with him, came from cartoons.
Agent, are you going to answer any of the comments asking you about predictive modeling? I would like to read your comments about your apparent ignorance when it comes to the difference between predictive modeling and price optimization?
March 21, 2016 at 8:23 pm
Yogi Polar Berra says:
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@Agent: OK, not a saying but a ‘story’;
I roomed with a guy in Spring Training who was so fast that I let him turn off the light switch near the entry door in our hotel room at night because he could make it into his bed before the room got dark.
March 21, 2016 at 10:01 pm
GoldC says:
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Thankfully people cannot lie about their territory, but NYC contractors would benefit in the tens and hundreds of thousands! No redlining, yet all of NYC is the only exclusion of many national markets.
And why small NYC business lie about delivery in this “congested” territory.
March 22, 2016 at 5:04 pm
Agent says:
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Yogi, a couple more for you to lighten the day from the onslaught of hate from the left.
Baseball is 90% mental and the other half physical.
Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they won’t come to yours.
No one goes there nowadays, it’s too crowded.
March 21, 2016 at 1:50 pm
I M Dunn says:
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One of the criticisms I received on my last job at a P&C retail agency was “you are too honest.” That gave me a warm fuzzy feeling about my superiors.
GoldC, isn’t it amazing that 10 trolls think honesty is not the best policy dealing with customers. I am glad they aren’t making submissions on my behalf or we would be filing E&O claims galore.
Dunn, honesty is always the best policy when dealing with a carrier on a risk. If you misrepresent or lie about operations on a commercial account, an inspection or an audit will find you out. I have seen other agents completely misclassify an account and stick it in an incorrect class in order to get a lower premium. It catches up to them at some point when there is a claim or a large additional premium audit. With the advent of internet and websites, I always give website info to an underwriter so they can see what the risk does, get info on management, years in business etc. That is often more useful than filling out a supplemental app where half the questions are N/A.
“And here’s a finding that may not surprise some women: men lie more. Men are more likely than women to say most of the financial lies listed in the survey are acceptable – sometimes at twice the rate of women.”
What about the study showing up to 85% of women lie on financial surveys?
At the risk of upsetting many women and feminists, and I do count myself among them, I personally believe many (just short of most) women are quite ignorant financially. If they lie it isn’t intentionally; it is because they don’t know how to apply certain rules. Women who don’t handle the finances (and contrary to popular belief, a majority don’t), live within the mindset of “if I can buy what I need we must be financially well-off” without taking into account the due date on the credit card that swiped the designer bag.
Women are more cautious within the very blurred lines of blissful ignorance.
Here is an issue I have been struggling with. I came across a prospect that will demolish houses. The carrier they are with will in no way shape or form accept that. Only conclusion I can come to is that he started doing that after the policy was issued and never informed the agent of the change in operations. Or the agent just plain lied to the company. I dont think its the prospect because he told me on the fact finding right up front.
I am contracted with the carrier that is on this.
What is my ethical / moral / legal obligation to the carrier? To the prospect? Would the carrier deny a claim against that activity?
They could deny the claim if the agent failed to disclose an increase in exposure and the risk was on their prohibited list. They will get off in a heart beat. There are markets for demolition work in the Excess/Surplus lines market. By the way, the agent probably hoodwinked the underwriter and told them the insured was doing something else. The worst case I ever saw was a manufacturer of equipment not classified right and the stupid agent put it under Building or Premises – LRO if you can believe that. Rated all the premises under area instead of MFG sales. Needless to say, the audit got them on the GL with a huge additional premium and they got off because of misrepresentation.
Most insurance companies have an anonymous “ethics help line” or “hot line” for employees. I don’t know for sure, but as a Company agent, you should be able to call them too for advice.
In my personal opinion, though nobody likes a rat it sounds like the problem could have claims problems for the insured. Just don’t know how far your duty to the Company extends. Maybe there’s something in your agency contract about such things?
Nomesaneman, I am assuming you are not an agent charged with executing agent/company contracts. If you were, you would see contracts of 10-15 pages of the duties and obligations of agents and the company. There are specific obligations and misrepresentation is one of them. It can lead to everything to getting off a risk to loss of agency contract. Reputation means a lot to a good agent. We see a lot of articles in IJ where some agent will get caught doing illegal things, misappropriating money, get caught for it and prosecuted.
FFA, if you are reading, if I were you, I would be honest with the insured and let him take it up with the other agent and the company. In the meantime, I would submit the account to a carrier that does accept that type of risk. It is almost sure to be higher in cost, but at least the proper coverage would be offered with no claims surprises.
My suggestion was for FFA to check his agreement to see if he had any expressed obligation in those 10-15 pages to be a whistle blower on a third party if he learns of mistakes, fraud or misrepresentation. If he has a contractual obligation, then he’s off the hook for ratting the other agent out.
nomesaneman, I have never seen that in any agency/company agreement. The contract is between the agent and the company and conduct of the agent to represent the carrier, not be involved with another agent’s conduct with that carrier.
March 25, 2016 at 4:22 pm
Confused says:
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as i have told you before, just because YOU do not see something does not prove it does not exist. YOUR contracts may not have a clause like that, but there are millions of other contracts in america and if even ONE has that clause, nomesaneman’s suggestion is valid
March 28, 2016 at 2:45 pm
Agent says:
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Confused, the last time I checked, there were not a million insurance companies in business in America offering agency/company contracts, therefore your assertion is not valid in any respect. You would argue with a fence post, wouldn’t you no matter what. I have been dealing with companies for over 30 years and you are just one of those know it all Progressive snots.
March 23, 2016 at 2:42 pm
FFA says:
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The prospect will certainly know about this.
I dont want to be a rat, but this is a big hole / gap in his coverage. This also puts the carrier in a bad spot. I would flat out deny the claim if I were the adjuster.
Rock and a hard spot…. The carrier deserves to know what they are on. This guy was way too up front with me on this item. The carrier sends inspectors out.
FFA, out of curiosity, did you see how the other agent classified this risk? Obviously, it probably wasn’t demolition work. Perhaps a dirt contractor? Excavation or something real plain vanilla which is very misleading.
Isn’t this great FFA? We were having a good discussion on your prospect and what to do with him and the Progressive trolls saw them and downthumbed my comments. They have the maturity of 3rd graders. How did they ever get a job in our industry? They aren’t qualified to bus tables at the local Chipotle’s which by the way is about to fold. 3 straight bad quarters with the most recent being -27% in sales.
Excavation? That is a bit different than knocking down houses all right. Grading or clearing of land or digging with a backhoe also different. Keep me posted about what happens on this.
Why am I not surprised Ron that you didn’t condemn your Progressive school children buddies on their hate of me? FFA has always been mild mannered and didn’t confront the trolls on this site like I have. By the way, he supports my positions on Obama, Obamacare, Progressive Socialism that you love so dear. You and your kind should stick to only one down vote at a time like I do instead of 30-50 at a time. That is a tantrum. Three main dudes are responsible. Confused denies, UW denies and Planet is probably it. It must be exhausting to have that much hate bottled up. You all need help.
I believe by stating, “While I do not think anyone should thumb up or down anyone else’s post…”,I did condemn them as much as others who have engaged in the same behavior.
You have not condemned anyone else’s hatred of me, especially your own. Quit your whining and grow some thicker skin.
You hit the nail on the head when you said, “FFA has always been mild mannered”. You can defend your position without insulting people and trying to disrespect and demean them.
March 25, 2016 at 4:25 pm
Confused says:
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I am starting to think Agent downvotes his own comments so he is able to keep complaining about it. While i am here, agent wrote ‘You and your kind should stick to only one down vote at a time like I do’ You sir are a big fat stinking liar.
March 29, 2016 at 5:41 pm
Agent says:
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Ron, I can certainly see why your father-in-law called you a Commie after having your first political discussion. You see everything from a Progressive Socialist standpoint and go out of your way to insult me, Bob and others that disagree with your agenda. There are no olive branches available unless you change your tune. That will not happen anytime soon.
March 30, 2016 at 3:53 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
First, he did call me a Commie.
Second, have you an interest in refraining from insulting me? If not, then you are a hypocrite.
Third, are you and Bob to be excused when you insult people who disagree with your agenda?
Fourth, when have you ever extended an olive branch to me?
Finally, besides agreeing with you 100% of the time, what exactly do I need to do that would convince you that I have changed my tune so we may have a civil debate? Or am I suppose to be civil toward you, just take your insults, and not defend myself?
March 30, 2016 at 3:59 pm
Ron says:
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Correction:
He did NOT call me a Commie
March 30, 2016 at 4:01 pm
FFA says:
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“I am starting to think”.
Stop that. Its harm full to your health.
April 1, 2016 at 11:13 am
Agent says:
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Ron, here is a good quote you may understand since it applies to you.
I never said most of the things I said. Yogi Berra
April 1, 2016 at 12:23 pm
Ron says:
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Agent,
Are you really so insecure that you need to give each of your posts a thumbs up?
Tool!
March 30, 2016 at 2:50 pm
FFA says:
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Could proper Underwriting be the only thing 100% of us believe in???
Proper Underwriting is what I believe in, some believe they can deceive an underwriter to gain an advantage. I can’t tell you how many times I saw another agent cut exposures, used the wrong codes to cut premiums to half of what was proper. It always caught up with them when the insured was audited, but usually took over a year to do it. The deceived insured would often file a claim that had to be turned in to the E&O carrier.
March 24, 2016 at 4:58 pm
Agent says:
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FFA, if the insured is unhappy with the agent and you represent the same company, you could try to do a Broker of Record letter with the carrier. However, if the company does not write the type of business this prospect does, that will only trigger a mid term cancellation so that is not a happy result. The guy really needs to be re-written with proper classification.
I have seen a few borderline cases over the years. Once, I solicited an account, made submissions and quoted and got beat by a carrier I also represented who had told me the type of risk wasn’t in their appetite guide to write it. I asked the underwriter point blank why they were writing the same type of risk for another agent. There was a long pause and he said they weren’t supposed to. I think the other agent also misrepresented the info on the account. I didn’t name the agent or the insured and am not sure what happened on it.
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David, is that really the best you’ve got? Is that your enlightened, professional response?
As the client of a client wrote me yesterday, “write what’s better.” Is it better when the insurer denies the claim on the basis of his dishonesty?
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Agent, do you know David, i.e. how do you know this to be true? Your ignorance is showing…again.
i know it is hard – i can not help myself sometimes, but we need to stop feeding the troll around here.
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When you feel that you are being screwed by big business or government, you feel it is okay to screw them back.
Jack,so much dishonesty in this dumbed down, idiotic society. Insurance companies have been known to lie to agents about what they are doing with Predictive Modeling, Price Optimization, Re-tiering, re-scoring customers, discrimination against certain classes of insureds etc. It is really nauseating and agents have a tough time explaining what is going on.
Agent,
Just because you are not intelligent enough to understand these concepts or too lazy to explain them to your clients, does not mean they are lies.
I will now get off your lawn.
You were never on my lawn Obama lover. Don’t you ever call me lazy you sleazebag cubicle knat. Someone who can’t do should never criticize someone who has done.
Agent,
Apparently your are not a fan of Clint Eastwood.
I just call ’em as I see ’em. You want the carriers to do what you want to make your own life easier. Try getting educated about insurance and become an insurance professional instead of regurgitating word tracks.
You said, “Someone who can’t do should never criticize someone who has done.” Try taking your own advice.
DRUMPFFFFFF!!!!!
El Capitan Planeta! Thank you for making that comment. I appreciate the humor.
Drumpf,
No problem, but it looks like Agent had it censored. The guy says he believes in The Constitution but evidently doesn’t appreciate freedom of speech. Typical Teahadist.
Drumpf,
Not a problem, but it looks like Agent had it censored. The guy says he believes in The Constitution but evidently doesn’t appreciate freedom of speech. Typical Teahadist.
For once I will agree with you; I believe you have a very difficult time explaining what is going on to your customers.
Especially with all those young Millenials and their hippity hop and reefer mmadness, who just need to get off your lawn!!
Lets not forget the OBama Care lies to agents… When the Pres does it, makes it ok for everyone else.
Was reading “Pioneer Girl,” which came out recently. I believe the line was, to the the effect of, in regards to doing business with the railroad companies, “If you’re not cheating them, you’re not being honest.”
lol
So what I’m gathering from this article is that young people want to pay the government less while demanding that big business and the wealthy pay more?
Same shit, different generation.
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It’s amazing, Agent…..notice how trolls have kept hitting the “dislike” button on any comment of ours from the last couple of weeks? Looks like we’ve been striking a nerve with those who still live at home with their parents.
Happy St. Paddy’s Day!
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he who has downvoted posts to hide in the past them should not be upset when others treat him the same way
let me fix that
he who has downvoted posts to hide them in the past should not be upset when others treat him the same way
It has nothing to do with getting feelings hurt or seeing ideology going down the drain. I think it’s a dislike of you and your negativity and attitude. Just my opinion – that’s what irritates me the most.
You dumb—– need to learn the definition of a troll. The only person who is close is Agent, but he’s just dumb and uninformed, not a troll.
God, you sad, pathetic, losers. I’ve never seen so much hatred directed towards other people before in my life. Seriously.
For those who will say that I’m a hypocrite for writing the above, just piss off. It really does not make any sense defending my position or ideology anymore when losers attack attack attack. You’re all blind, a complete and utter waste of time, and just disgusting human beings.
There was a time when it was kinda fun to let off some steam during the day and escape to a land where everyone is hiding behind a user name. Then it turned.
You people began to attack others like the refugees you support who rape & pillage. You’re not entertaining, you’re just gross and show your yellow fangs when someone writes a differing opinion. I would hate to see how you are in real life. I can guarantee no one is proud of you, and because of that you troll on some fucking comments section on an insurance website (of all places) to bring you back to the days when you bullied hard. It’s pathetic.
So, no one will give a shit, but I’m signing off. I have a career to focus on and a team to continue to grow, and life’s too short to be in the company of morons.
Agent, best of luck. All who have straddled the fence, thanks for bringing some fun, spirited debates. And to the libtards: Karma is around the corner, and I sure hope you change your ways or at least shut your mouths long enough so the worst in life doesn’t continue to happen to you.
Adios! Mwah!
Hey Supreme, great post. There are about 4 or 5 really pathetic losers on this site who know nothing except hate against those that disagree with them and their agenda. Name calling, nasty insults are the order of the day. I wonder why their parents didn’t raise them right or teach them right from wrong. Perhaps they got a full dose of hate in college from liberal professors and were brain washed. In any case, the Bible verse Ecclesiastes 10:2 applies to them in spades.
Agent,
You just described yourself. When have you ever shown anything but hatred toward me? Even when I try to extend a sincere compliment, you find a way to insult me.
I have tried multiple times to extend an olive branch, but you refuse to have a civil debate.
Ha Supreme, that’s rich. You bitch and whine about people being sooo mean in a post after you just wrote about “those who still live at home with their parents”. Now you’re leaving because people contradict you when you defend your positions. You forget to mention, in your cry for fake civility (because you don’t seem to have a problem being rude, or ever call out Agent’s bullshit) you forget to mention that you routinely call people libtards, lie over and over saying Trump is a liberal in disguise, support Cruz, who is almost as bad and supports a pastor who has called for the execution of gays, calls people uninformed idiots but never uses actual facts, calls all liberals uninformed morons full of hate, has asked about my non-existant ex-wife as a slur, constantly says people must be disappointed with other people as a slur, and on and on.
So good-riddance, idiot, but know all you really care about is that people have finally had enough of coming here and seeing 3-5 outright dolts posting the same ignorant BS over and over, and you can’t stand or handle it. Bye, bye, moron; your parents you live with must be sooooo disappointed you can’t handle interacting with people who will stand up to you.
Maybe in all your new free time you can crack a book or two that’s not pure right-wing trash, but I doubt it.
They don’t want to pay the government less; they want to COLLECT from the government (i.e. the rest of us).
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Agent,
Go get educated about tax laws. I do pay taxes. It just so happens that, since I live my life the way Republicans want me to, my deductions; children (no abortions), home mortgage interest (responsibly paying back my debt), graduate student loan interest (educating myself in order to my life through hard work), and charitable contributions (helping my fellow man so the government does not need to do as much to help them), erase my Federal Income Tax liability.
Go back to collecting those commission checks that your minimum wage staff does all of the work to earn.
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Agent,
It was for my Master’s degree that I finished 5 years ago. Many people complete those a little later in life. Don’t worry, I just finished paying them off so my tax bill will be higher next year. More money for the government, just what you want.
I still want to know why you are so hung up on how much I pay in taxes. I am just doing what your pal Mitt Romney said we should all do, pay only what the law requires. Aren’t you glad I am giving more money to private companies, like my insurance agent, and less to the government?
How can you say that when you do not even know how much money I make?
Ron, what a silly question you ask of Agent re: why he’s so hung up on the tax issue. I’ve only been reading this forum for the past six months and have noticed that he is only able to regurgitate the same ten items / conversations. Your tax liability just happens to be one of them.
Big shock one of the dumbest people I’ve ever encountered is against education. Big shock! Total idiot.
Ron, you have to be the most uneducated Masters degree guy on this blog. Perhaps you should have taken Common Sense 101 in college. There was another guy named Stan on this blog who seems to have disappeared or is disguised as UW or Confused. He had three degrees and wondered why he couldn’t get a job in this industry. It might have been his attitude. He sure liked to rail against employers, didn’t he? I know a few CPCU’s in this industry. It stands for Can’t Produce, Can’t Underwrite.
Agent,
CPCU stands for Chartered Property Casualty Underwriter and it is the gold standard of insurance designations. The ones who say it stands for Can’t Produce, Can’t Underwrite are either jealous or not intelligent or dedicated enough to complete the designation.
Agent is dead on right. I know plenty of people that get my tax money when they haven’t got off the couch except to cash their unemployment checks. Cant call them refunds because they never paid into the system.
FFA, I have missed you being on this blog the past few days. As usual, the haters from the left downthumb my comments since they don’t know how to argue the merits of their belief system. UW has to be the ugliest poster ever on this forum. Nasty, Nasty, Nasty. He definitely didn’t have the best childhood growing up. It is really sad.
This Demo account has taken a lot of time. Not to mention the tax matters I am finishing off. 140 + vinyl Albums to look up values on. UGH!!
FFA, I have known a number of CPCU’s over the course of years. Not one of them could produce a volume of business to a carrier. They are educated idiots and have very little rapport with real business owners who don’t speak their language. Their only value is to teach insurance. Those who can’t do – teach.
Agent,
I am not exactly sure why you feel the need to insult over 40,000 insurance professionals.
To be fair, the CPCU program is not designed for agents, brokers or producers. That is what the CIC is for.
However, if you ever wanted to actually learn and understand the business and operations of the insurance industry, you should look into the CPCU program. Maybe then we would have far fewer disagreements.
Godot, thank you for putting Confused in his place. We appreciate it.
Um, sorry, Agent; the comment was meant for you.
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Godot – except for Agent, we all know you you posted your reply in its proper place by hitting the reply button that was ‘attached’ to Agent’s comment.
Too bad he was actually talking to YOU Agent!
You – these idiotic Progressives get their feelings hurt…
Godot – It has nothing to do with getting feelings hurt…
He responded to your comment about hurt feelings. I said nothing about feelings in my post, so his reply was not directed at me.
Godot, thank you for putting Agent in his place. We appreciate it.
I don’t think there is such a thing as putting Agent in his place – see his response above (babbling as it may be). I can’t put my finger on why I let his posts and demeanor aggravate me as much as they do. I think it is a lack of tolerance for negativity, ignorance, and his being totally so unaware and acknowledging of his actions. He’s the bully from grade school that is so frustrating because he always has an asinine retort. He just has to be aggressive and ‘all knowing’ about everything. Everyone has a label, he can characterize a person by a single sentence, etc., etc. Much like a train wreck, I am disgusted by his posts but can’t help but read them to satisfy the curiousity. It’s sad yet amazing at the same time.
Goody, it’s probably his stupidity combined with his sense of entitlement and being totally oblivious to how wrong/stupid he is. Based on everything he has said, he’s not competent to hold any real job that requires thinking, but he is a nasty dolt who thinks he’s right about everything, when he’s been wrong about literally everything I’ve ever seen him write that can be fact checked.
Also, I assure you Agent was not a bully in school; if anything he was bullied. He is the perfect representation of modern conservatives. He has no knowledge about anything, is at least pretty racist, and more likely an ardent racist, who pretends he isn’t, and might actually believe it. He has no appreciation for when he says something stupid and totally wrong, like when he predicted Bush would win right before he dropped out, or his ignorance about insurance, or economics, or science, etc. He will be all about Trump in a couple months, because Trump is a nationalist, fascist, who pretends to be a populist, but is really the face of aggrieved, old, male, White America, and they are terrified about the cell phones, Millenials, blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, other brown people, liberals, communists, Muslims, etc., who they think are out to get them. Thankfully people like him are becoming less relevant literally every day, which is why they are melting down, their party is melting down, and why Agent is clearly in a full-time blown meltdown. Good riddance.
Ron, you wore out your welcome with me a very long time ago. Your insincere compliments quickly disintegrate into another insult time after time. Bob & I have tried to educate you several hundred times and it goes in one ear and out the other without hitting home. I gave up and Bob still gives it a try from time to time, also without results. You are a born Progressive and double Obama voter so we will never see eye to eye on anything. Progressivism is a disease for which there is no apparent cure.
Agent,
Thank you for proving me right.
Since we do not see eye to eye on anything, I will have to assume that you are for higher taxes, bigger government involvement to people’s lives, reduced freedoms, and unlimited terms, health care and pensions for elected officials.
Glad we cleared that up.
Ron, you must have gone all the way back to your regurgitated replies that you have been spouting for several years now. Thank you for proving me right about you. You are a Progressive from the word go and love big Government Spending, lower or no taxation for yourself as long as businessmen like me pick up the tab for you. As an Obama lover, you like his taking over more control of our lives via Obamacare and more taxes and regulation of business. It is a good thing that so many Progressives have been defeated the past few elections. Time for the Republicans to take complete control after the short timer leaves. He is down there in Cuba playing chummy with the Castro brothers as we speak. Perhaps they will give him a case of cigars to bring home so he can lift all those sanctions.
As the great Yogi Berra once said:
It’s like Deja Vu all over again! One track mind.
Agent,
Nobody take you seriously because you are a hypocritical tool.
If you like your plan, you can keep your plan! If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!
The cost of health insurance will decrease by $2500 on average.
Annually or monthly? Because my financial status which didn’t change from 2014 to 2015 was suddenly considered to be double that allowed by the updated ACA guidelines for the size of my family and I would have to pay over $12,000 – that I wasn’t earning in the first place!
You should talk to FFA sometime about how he has been hurt by Obamacare. Nancy said she had to pass it so we could see what was in it. Progressives were saying when it was first passed that most of it hadn’t even kicked in yet and why scream about it? Hey, I think it has kicked in now like we predicted it would. Nancy and her followers including Harry Reid should have been tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail.
You should talk to people who have had their lives saved by the PPACA. LIVES SAVED. That’s for all you pro-lifers out there.
How many people died of ‘no care’ before ACA? There are ERs for those who are sick and uninsured. There is the VA for veterans who can get adequate and expedient health care…. oh, wait! Never mind that last comment. You are right about DEATHS before the ACA – due to government administration failures in the VA. Now, expand that ineptitude to a scenario where government controls ALL healthcare issues… YIKES!
If someone actually addresses the COSTS of healthcare instead of SUBSIDIZING THEM, the problems would be greatly reduced. Hint: that won’t happen when the government is involved.
PS I’ve visited a VA hospital/ clinic many times.
Yogi, the VA can’t even be bothered to answer their Suicide Watch line. No telling how many died because they couldn’t talk to a counselor.
There were many, many, MANY more insureds whose coverage terms were downgraded while premiums increased than uninsured Americans whom the ACA has helped. So don’t go all “you pro-lifers” on us.
Agent, maybe if Republicans didn’t insist on destroying government and refunding everything they could pay people to man the phones after thousands of troops came back from Bush and the Republican’s illegal Iraq War. Republicans cut $1.4 billion from Obama’s budget for the VA.
Havent met one yet Planet. Not one. A bunch of propaganda spread by ofnbama. But not one walking down main st America.
let us not kid ourselves, insurance executives don’t have a problem lying either.
insurance_guy, Ron says the companies are without blemish, never lie, do their Predictive Modeling, Price Optimization schemes, re-score, re-tier, discriminate and nothing wrong with that. It is the agents who are at fault, right? Then, they say they want to grow when they do reverse growing when agents move their book.
agent, you are really good at making things up that have no basis in reality. i would love to play cards against humanity with you
Agent,
If you could stop misquoting me, putting words in my mouth, and /or taking what I say out of context, you just might gain some credibility. However, I have a feeling you have no interest in being credible. It would destroy your entire narrative.
Do you even understand the principles of insurance pricing…or the theory of insurance in general? I think someone has covered the predictive modeling concept several times before. Move the needle on your broken record. Insurance is a business, the goal for a company is to make money. They cannot make money without analyzing and pricing their products based on experience and exposure. It’s not that hard to grasp.
Michael, spoken like a true modeler. Please tell the class why several states are banning the practice of Price Optimization schemes by companies if there is nothing to it. Allstate was the first caught in this terrible practice and it goes on with other companies as well. It is dishonest and asinine.
No, Agent, I am not a ‘true modeler’. I am an agent with a large national independent firm. I understand the banning of optimization. If you will reread my post, I commented on predictive modeling – the concept related to predicting future losses / exposures / etc. I said the pricing needs to be base don experience and exposure (which is predictive modeling), and didn’t reference supply and demand (or elasticity) which is the price optimization. No sense in trying to explain it further – you don’t get it.
Michael, did you not realize that Actuaries and Predictive Modelers thought up the Price Optimization scheme that has affective several million consumers? Did you realize that Predictive Modelers have instituted discrimination against several classes of insureds? I am afraid you are not getting it. If predictive modeling were based on experience and exposure, that might be ok, but they are plugging in so much more with their algorithms that rates are being skewed, always upward whether the risk deserves it or not.
Agent,
I can guarantee you that neither actuaries nor predictive modelers think up schemes. They only use data to support product changes to file for approval or predict the likelihood of future losses. The schemes come from management.
Can you name one state that has allowed Price Optimization? Can you name one person on this blog who has advocated for or at least defended Price Optimization?
For the record, insurance has been discriminating well before your time as an agent. Would you rate a 17 year old the same as a 50 year old, all other factors being equal?
Go back to regurgitating sales word tracks to sell policies and leave the real insurance work to the true professionals.
Agent, please briefly explain what predictive modeling is and how it is done. Explain probability and risk pools. Thanks.
There are too many posts that simultaneously discuss two distinct pricing practices intended to: 1. price accurately according to risk distinctions and 2. price according to market acceptance of price (Optimization), which is akin to 1. apples & 2. oranges discussions.
Please use proper attention to your handling of ‘orchard fruit’ in this thread. Thank you.
Actuary to management: You know how we can get more rate on our Auto & Home? Management to Actuary: How? Actuary to Management: All we have to do is take all our loyal loss free customers and give them a higher rate and hope it is just below where they will leave. Management to Actuary: That sounds like a good plan. Optimize the tar out of them. Surely, not too many will shop around.
Everybody to Agent, stop embarrassing yourself.
Thank you, Yogi; you summed up what I was trying to explain to Agent. There is a difference between the Modeling and Optimization; here’s hoping your concise statements clear up the confusion.
Hey Agent, you f——- dolt, that’s how a Capitalist economy works. I know you want government to regulate the economy so you make as much money as possible for little to no work but that’s not reality. And guess what, dolt? Not too many do shop around if that is done, because they still value the product.
And enough with the “loss free” customers bull—-. Being loss free in the past is not a guarantee of no losses in the future. You sound like the type of person who says you should get your money back if you don’t have losses. You are totally incompetent.
Yogi, how about a famous saying by your namesake?
You have to be very careful if you don’t know where you are going because you might not get there.
Another one: When you get to a fork in the road, take it!
Most of Agent’s education, and I use that term very loosely with him, came from cartoons.
Agent, are you going to answer any of the comments asking you about predictive modeling? I would like to read your comments about your apparent ignorance when it comes to the difference between predictive modeling and price optimization?
@Agent: OK, not a saying but a ‘story’;
I roomed with a guy in Spring Training who was so fast that I let him turn off the light switch near the entry door in our hotel room at night because he could make it into his bed before the room got dark.
Thankfully people cannot lie about their territory, but NYC contractors would benefit in the tens and hundreds of thousands! No redlining, yet all of NYC is the only exclusion of many national markets.
And why small NYC business lie about delivery in this “congested” territory.
Yogi, a couple more for you to lighten the day from the onslaught of hate from the left.
Baseball is 90% mental and the other half physical.
Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they won’t come to yours.
No one goes there nowadays, it’s too crowded.
One of the criticisms I received on my last job at a P&C retail agency was “you are too honest.” That gave me a warm fuzzy feeling about my superiors.
My ex-partner used to say that.
GoldC, isn’t it amazing that 10 trolls think honesty is not the best policy dealing with customers. I am glad they aren’t making submissions on my behalf or we would be filing E&O claims galore.
Dunn, honesty is always the best policy when dealing with a carrier on a risk. If you misrepresent or lie about operations on a commercial account, an inspection or an audit will find you out. I have seen other agents completely misclassify an account and stick it in an incorrect class in order to get a lower premium. It catches up to them at some point when there is a claim or a large additional premium audit. With the advent of internet and websites, I always give website info to an underwriter so they can see what the risk does, get info on management, years in business etc. That is often more useful than filling out a supplemental app where half the questions are N/A.
Hey, wait a minute……
“And here’s a finding that may not surprise some women: men lie more. Men are more likely than women to say most of the financial lies listed in the survey are acceptable – sometimes at twice the rate of women.”
What about the study showing up to 85% of women lie on financial surveys?
At the risk of upsetting many women and feminists, and I do count myself among them, I personally believe many (just short of most) women are quite ignorant financially. If they lie it isn’t intentionally; it is because they don’t know how to apply certain rules. Women who don’t handle the finances (and contrary to popular belief, a majority don’t), live within the mindset of “if I can buy what I need we must be financially well-off” without taking into account the due date on the credit card that swiped the designer bag.
Women are more cautious within the very blurred lines of blissful ignorance.
Without more information on how the survey was conducted I’m skeptical that the results are meaningful, and not just click-bait.
Here is an issue I have been struggling with. I came across a prospect that will demolish houses. The carrier they are with will in no way shape or form accept that. Only conclusion I can come to is that he started doing that after the policy was issued and never informed the agent of the change in operations. Or the agent just plain lied to the company. I dont think its the prospect because he told me on the fact finding right up front.
I am contracted with the carrier that is on this.
What is my ethical / moral / legal obligation to the carrier? To the prospect? Would the carrier deny a claim against that activity?
They could deny the claim if the agent failed to disclose an increase in exposure and the risk was on their prohibited list. They will get off in a heart beat. There are markets for demolition work in the Excess/Surplus lines market. By the way, the agent probably hoodwinked the underwriter and told them the insured was doing something else. The worst case I ever saw was a manufacturer of equipment not classified right and the stupid agent put it under Building or Premises – LRO if you can believe that. Rated all the premises under area instead of MFG sales. Needless to say, the audit got them on the GL with a huge additional premium and they got off because of misrepresentation.
Most insurance companies have an anonymous “ethics help line” or “hot line” for employees. I don’t know for sure, but as a Company agent, you should be able to call them too for advice.
In my personal opinion, though nobody likes a rat it sounds like the problem could have claims problems for the insured. Just don’t know how far your duty to the Company extends. Maybe there’s something in your agency contract about such things?
Nomesaneman, I am assuming you are not an agent charged with executing agent/company contracts. If you were, you would see contracts of 10-15 pages of the duties and obligations of agents and the company. There are specific obligations and misrepresentation is one of them. It can lead to everything to getting off a risk to loss of agency contract. Reputation means a lot to a good agent. We see a lot of articles in IJ where some agent will get caught doing illegal things, misappropriating money, get caught for it and prosecuted.
FFA, if you are reading, if I were you, I would be honest with the insured and let him take it up with the other agent and the company. In the meantime, I would submit the account to a carrier that does accept that type of risk. It is almost sure to be higher in cost, but at least the proper coverage would be offered with no claims surprises.
My suggestion was for FFA to check his agreement to see if he had any expressed obligation in those 10-15 pages to be a whistle blower on a third party if he learns of mistakes, fraud or misrepresentation. If he has a contractual obligation, then he’s off the hook for ratting the other agent out.
nomesaneman, I have never seen that in any agency/company agreement. The contract is between the agent and the company and conduct of the agent to represent the carrier, not be involved with another agent’s conduct with that carrier.
as i have told you before, just because YOU do not see something does not prove it does not exist. YOUR contracts may not have a clause like that, but there are millions of other contracts in america and if even ONE has that clause, nomesaneman’s suggestion is valid
Confused, the last time I checked, there were not a million insurance companies in business in America offering agency/company contracts, therefore your assertion is not valid in any respect. You would argue with a fence post, wouldn’t you no matter what. I have been dealing with companies for over 30 years and you are just one of those know it all Progressive snots.
The prospect will certainly know about this.
I dont want to be a rat, but this is a big hole / gap in his coverage. This also puts the carrier in a bad spot. I would flat out deny the claim if I were the adjuster.
Rock and a hard spot…. The carrier deserves to know what they are on. This guy was way too up front with me on this item. The carrier sends inspectors out.
FFA, out of curiosity, did you see how the other agent classified this risk? Obviously, it probably wasn’t demolition work. Perhaps a dirt contractor? Excavation or something real plain vanilla which is very misleading.
Excavation.
Isn’t this great FFA? We were having a good discussion on your prospect and what to do with him and the Progressive trolls saw them and downthumbed my comments. They have the maturity of 3rd graders. How did they ever get a job in our industry? They aren’t qualified to bus tables at the local Chipotle’s which by the way is about to fold. 3 straight bad quarters with the most recent being -27% in sales.
Excavation? That is a bit different than knocking down houses all right. Grading or clearing of land or digging with a backhoe also different. Keep me posted about what happens on this.
Agent,
While I do not think anyone should thumb up or down anyone else’s post, did you notice that FFA did not receive one thumb down? Coincidence?
You reap what you sow.
Why am I not surprised Ron that you didn’t condemn your Progressive school children buddies on their hate of me? FFA has always been mild mannered and didn’t confront the trolls on this site like I have. By the way, he supports my positions on Obama, Obamacare, Progressive Socialism that you love so dear. You and your kind should stick to only one down vote at a time like I do instead of 30-50 at a time. That is a tantrum. Three main dudes are responsible. Confused denies, UW denies and Planet is probably it. It must be exhausting to have that much hate bottled up. You all need help.
Agent,
I believe by stating, “While I do not think anyone should thumb up or down anyone else’s post…”,I did condemn them as much as others who have engaged in the same behavior.
You have not condemned anyone else’s hatred of me, especially your own. Quit your whining and grow some thicker skin.
You hit the nail on the head when you said, “FFA has always been mild mannered”. You can defend your position without insulting people and trying to disrespect and demean them.
I am starting to think Agent downvotes his own comments so he is able to keep complaining about it. While i am here, agent wrote ‘You and your kind should stick to only one down vote at a time like I do’ You sir are a big fat stinking liar.
Ron, I can certainly see why your father-in-law called you a Commie after having your first political discussion. You see everything from a Progressive Socialist standpoint and go out of your way to insult me, Bob and others that disagree with your agenda. There are no olive branches available unless you change your tune. That will not happen anytime soon.
Agent,
First, he did call me a Commie.
Second, have you an interest in refraining from insulting me? If not, then you are a hypocrite.
Third, are you and Bob to be excused when you insult people who disagree with your agenda?
Fourth, when have you ever extended an olive branch to me?
Finally, besides agreeing with you 100% of the time, what exactly do I need to do that would convince you that I have changed my tune so we may have a civil debate? Or am I suppose to be civil toward you, just take your insults, and not defend myself?
Correction:
He did NOT call me a Commie
“I am starting to think”.
Stop that. Its harm full to your health.
Ron, here is a good quote you may understand since it applies to you.
I never said most of the things I said. Yogi Berra
Agent,
Are you really so insecure that you need to give each of your posts a thumbs up?
Tool!
Could proper Underwriting be the only thing 100% of us believe in???
Proper Underwriting is what I believe in, some believe they can deceive an underwriter to gain an advantage. I can’t tell you how many times I saw another agent cut exposures, used the wrong codes to cut premiums to half of what was proper. It always caught up with them when the insured was audited, but usually took over a year to do it. The deceived insured would often file a claim that had to be turned in to the E&O carrier.
FFA, if the insured is unhappy with the agent and you represent the same company, you could try to do a Broker of Record letter with the carrier. However, if the company does not write the type of business this prospect does, that will only trigger a mid term cancellation so that is not a happy result. The guy really needs to be re-written with proper classification.
I have seen a few borderline cases over the years. Once, I solicited an account, made submissions and quoted and got beat by a carrier I also represented who had told me the type of risk wasn’t in their appetite guide to write it. I asked the underwriter point blank why they were writing the same type of risk for another agent. There was a long pause and he said they weren’t supposed to. I think the other agent also misrepresented the info on the account. I didn’t name the agent or the insured and am not sure what happened on it.