Republicans Call for State Pools to Replace Obamacare Safeguards for Sickest Insureds

By | April 28, 2016

  • April 28, 2016 at 12:58 pm
    chas holman says:
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    I wonder how the insurance industry is going o dig ‘single payer’.. Because that is what hey have been begging for.

    Stick the sick and poor into state pools so they can sink and never relocate as other states wont cover ec ec.. Says the man with the incredibly generous Cadillac tax payer paid for lifetime health plan for he and his own family….End Congressional health care packages. With a 14% approval rating, they don’t deserve them and can afford to buy heir own insurance. Only then might they start to ‘get’ this isn’t some damn game.

    I oft wonder how one sleeps at night, knowing the taxpayer is footing the bill for their families generous health plan, while they plan and plot on how to make sure the taxpayer is nowhere as fortunate as they are.

    • April 28, 2016 at 1:19 pm
      Captain Planet says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Yes, not only will the sick and poor be stuck in a state they may or may not intend to stay in, there is also this, “analysts say they can be prohibitively expensive and offer less than optimal health coverage.” Try again, Republicans. But, I do appreciate you are making efforts in attempt to improve the PPACA.

    • April 28, 2016 at 1:48 pm
      Buckeye says:
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      Well said, Chas. I’d give you several Likes if I could.

    • April 28, 2016 at 2:38 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      You give Congress too much credit for being clever enough to scheme as you said. And you give Obama, Jarrett, Gruber, Pelosi, and Reid too little blame for their bad deed done independent of Republicans in the minority who were shut out of meetings on ACA.

      The 14% approval rating is the most mis-leading poll stat ever. It conflicts with the re-election of Congressmen by their constituents who believe their guy / gal is doing ok, but everyone else is a dunce or causing gridlock and greed to interfere with progress for the Country.

      That ^ is NOT to say I approve of Congress, in general. In my case, I object to the votes by my Dem Congressmen who I didn’t vote into office and would vote out if I could in a heartbeat.

      The auto insurance industry figured out how to fix pools for bad drivers, so why can’t the health insurance industry do the same? Some of the problem is the inelastic cost for the very sick. A White Knight must ride in with a solution. But don’t count on ANY politicians being able to balance themselves in a saddle.

      • April 28, 2016 at 4:33 pm
        SWFL Agent says:
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        The assigned risk pools for auto and health are completely different. Auto carriers have better data and haven taken on more of the risks which have shrunken the pools in many states. Healthcare costs have risen because we live longer, we spare no expense to keep a loved one alive even though we know it may be for only six months longer, and new drugs & treatments have created new ailments. We’re not willing to face tough choices as long as someone else is paying.

        • April 28, 2016 at 4:46 pm
          Agent says:
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          Are you saying that we should hire some Dr. Kavorkians to go out and put elderly to sleep? How about Britain’s “Pathway to Death”? Death Panels of Obamacare? Healthcare costs have risen because the unhealthy was put into the regular pool of the healthy. They can’t get enough healthy to enroll so the whole system is skewed and the folks are getting ripped off.

          • May 5, 2016 at 2:13 pm
            CalDude says:
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            Please stop spewing out incorrect information. There are no death panels. Hospitals would like to know if you have a health care directive and durable power of attorney. If you have not had that conversation with your clients regarding their estate planning, then you have failed. Period. Early in my career I list a business owner who refused to meet and discuss his estate planning and, following a lengthy and expensive hospital stay, the business and most of his estate was lost. Never should have happened and I made it my job to be a professional insurance agent to discuss asset protection.

        • April 29, 2016 at 8:21 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          I’m willing to face tough choices about life and death. I’ve already done so.

          But I’m not willing to give up that decision making right to a health insurance company or a clueless bureaucrat or political party. And, WE don’t have to yield our rights to decide our fates to bureaucrats or Socialist (soon Communist?) Democrats.

      • April 28, 2016 at 4:57 pm
        chris sanguin says:
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        better a 1/2 loaf than none, the Pubs have no plan except to crush and squeeze the middle class so we are scared and will work like slaves. the pubs have never cared for the common folk.

        • April 29, 2016 at 8:23 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          Actually, if you read the article, you would have learned that the poll plan is just a part of their (RNC) overall ACA replacement plan to be reveal shortly before their convention in July.

        • April 29, 2016 at 8:25 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          PS: ‘Crush and squeeze the middle class’ is the Obama plan, currently in place, and ‘working well (for Democrats pushing Socialism)’. As a by-product, the Democrats are also crushing and squeezing the wealthy (they call them 1%-ers) who pay most of the income taxes collected in the US>

          • April 29, 2016 at 9:13 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Crush and squeeze the middle class is what Reaganism has done. Look at what has happened to the middle class since that economic model was enacted. Hint – we have the largest wealth gap in the history of the world since we went to trickle down.

            Oh, and we are still under the same economic model today. So yes, President Obama is to blame as well.

          • April 29, 2016 at 9:30 am
            Agent says:
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            Yogi, you are a smart guy so can you educate me on how 55% of the American citizens that pay Federal Income Taxes can support the other 45% that don’t pay Federal Income Taxes? Is that a good recipe for financial disaster or what? All we have seen from Ron’s favorite President for 8 years are one give a way program after another. Meanwhile, the hard working taxpayers are getting “squeezed” big time.

          • April 29, 2016 at 8:14 pm
            Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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            Agent, your question is similar to asking how can the blue states continue to support the red states that take more of our federal tax dollars than they pay in. There’s one of those “give away” programs for you. Meanwhile, the hard-working taxpayers are getting squeezed big time, by states like Texas.

        • April 29, 2016 at 8:31 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          Ooops! ‘poll plan’ should have been ‘pool plan’.
          I have fat paws that sometimes hit the wrong tiny keys.

        • April 29, 2016 at 10:21 am
          FFA says:
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          I was middle class until the massive increase in Medical pushed me below the poverty level.

          • April 29, 2016 at 12:23 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, saw a good one today that a friend sent. Picture an elderly lady seeing the doctor. The doctor asked her if there was any mental illness in her family. She looked at him and said —– Well, my sister is a Democrat.

          • April 29, 2016 at 1:46 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Agent,
            I saw a good one yesterday, Ted Cruz picked Carly Fiorina to be his running mate.

          • April 29, 2016 at 2:09 pm
            FFA says:
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            Cap, that is a good one. My guess is he really dont want to be President. She shipped some 30,0000 jobs out of the country while running HP to almost bankrupt. And she want to be VP??? Im sure Hillary is laughing all the way to the polls.

            Whats gonna be funnier is if he drops out of the race and Trump names Cruz as his running mate.

          • April 29, 2016 at 5:40 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Oh man, that would be hilarious, FFA. Although, I don’t want to begin imagining those two kissing and making up. Grease meets Chester Cheetah.

          • May 2, 2016 at 10:10 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            @Capt Planet; for once, I agree with you…. Fiorina is a perfect example of a businesswoman who succeeded on her own, rather than on the coattails of her adulterer husband. She also exemplifies what is most wrong with Trump; i.e. he is a closet misogynist…. e.g. O’Donnell, Ivanka, M. Kelly, Fiorina, Heidi Cruz, just to name a few.

            In one of the debates, Fiorina was able to clearly outline a plan to rebuild the US military, unlike Trump and Clinton and Sanders. In all debates, neither Trump, Clinton, nor Sanders gave ANY details as to how to rebuild the US military.

          • May 3, 2016 at 2:39 pm
            FFA says:
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            Hey Yogi, she was not successful Business Woman. She darn near ran HP out of business. She shipped 30000 american jobs over seas. You either dont know that or we have different definitions of Successful.

          • May 4, 2016 at 8:07 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            Hey FFA! She (Fiorina) was a successful businesswoman. She didn’t nearly run HP out of business; she saved it! The positive results of her decision to acquire Compaq were not fully realized until after she was ousted. Think of late emerging claims developing favorably ( I think that’s the actuarial term for it; i.e. decreasing reserves )…. that only were realized after a CEO left an insurance company. Or, in accounting terms, the sunken costs of the acquisition weren’t recouped until much later, when the revenue streams flowed in and yielded profits on later period income statements. I’m struggling to put it into other terms that agents and brokers would understand, so I hope the above were sufficient explanation of the error the BoD of HP made in ousting a successful businesswoman.

            She ran for US Congress in California as a Republican, and for that she deserves congratulations for bravery and courage…. or admonition for stupidity in thinking liberals would appreciate her accomplishments and elect her to Congress. I can’t decide which.

        • May 2, 2016 at 4:46 pm
          Agent says:
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          1/2 is better than none? Obamacare benefits 10% and screws the 90%. How is the Middle Class going to come out on that scenario? The Middle Class is already the lower middle class and is likely to fall into the poverty class soon.

          • May 3, 2016 at 8:24 am
            Captain Planet says:
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            Yes, we all understand Reaganism is destroying the middle class. Reaganism has created the largest wealth gap in the history of the world, taking the middle class with it. But, this article is about the PPACA. I applaud the Republicans for trying something, but the pools they suggest are not the answer. People must have the liberty to be able to move from state to state, not married to one particular state because of the high risk pool to which they belong.

    • April 28, 2016 at 2:51 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      Regional pools? National pools, with the concurrent ability to take your policy with you, across state lines?

      Regulation could still occur at the state level, with a cooperative network of state regulators examining and monitoring the behavior of companies licensed in their state. Greater regulatory responsibility would be given to the regulator of a particular insurer’s domicile state. Where have we seen that before?

      • April 29, 2016 at 10:29 am
        FFA says:
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        The govt just needs to but out. Help the pre X Crowd with subsidies, but thats it.

      • April 29, 2016 at 3:08 pm
        Agent says:
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        FFA, the question on Fiorina is – why were the jobs shipped off? Was it due to Government taxes and regulation ie an unfriendly government? Why is Ford building a plant in Mexico? Why are so many corporations moving operations offshore? Say what you want about Trump, but he does propose to bring jobs back and the several trillion dollars parked offshore so it can be invested back here. By the way, you may have seen that the country had a 0.5 GDP for the first quarter and prior to that, a 1.4% growth in GDP in the fourth quarter of 2015. Never has a 3% growth rate been breached since Obama first took office. Looks like another ineffective recovery summer is in store for America.

      • May 2, 2016 at 10:15 am
        Yogi Polar Berra says:
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        @FFA; if auto insurance subsidies are paid by the voluntary market, through efforts of insurers sharing those pools and reducing the costs, why does the gummint need to get involved in health insurance pool subsidization? Subsidizing an activity or cost will only perpetuate the problem by supporting the problem through the subsidy rather than fixing the problem through tough choices and novel ideas.

        Think BIG IDEAS, FFA, not BIG GUMMINT!

        • May 3, 2016 at 2:48 pm
          FFA says:
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          Yogi – in IL, BCBS ran the program tax neutral. I believe the underwriting losses they incurred were subsidized by Investment Income.
          I do not think big Govt…

          • May 3, 2016 at 4:31 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, just saw a good article on Townhall that we are due for another November surprise with Obamacare with more double digit increases. Just in time for the election, right? More proof that Obamacare is working as intended. Hilliary wants to continue this travesty so she can get support from Obama.

        • May 4, 2016 at 8:11 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          I saw the same November surprise article that Agent mentions. It seems Jonathan Gruber didn’t quite plan that increase timing very well, … unless he was told by Obama to sabotage Hillary’s campaign as retaliation for stuff Bill said about O … :)

      • May 4, 2016 at 1:55 pm
        Bill says:
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        Yogi Polar Berra, it’s obvious you are the smartest guy in the room. And I’m not being sarcastic.

  • April 28, 2016 at 1:30 pm
    reality bites says:
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    Sounds like a plan similar to the NFIP, and we all know how profitable THAT runs.

    • April 29, 2016 at 8:37 am
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      The gummint set NFIP rates to be inadequate since NFIPs’ start, until 2012, per B-WA. We didn’t get details on the rates for the RNC plan; i.e. pool rates, nor the administrative process to share pool results, etc. You’re just speculating, which is ok to do. I’ll just wait for the details in/ before July.

      • May 4, 2016 at 9:58 am
        UW says:
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        We don’t need rates and they won’t provide them, once again your are ignoring the fact that these pools are not needed, have been used, and we’re a miserable failure that provided worse care at a higher price.

  • April 28, 2016 at 1:30 pm
    FFA says:
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    So the PPACA rocks the boat for 100% of the people to solve a problem that 10% of the people had. I agree – Subsidize the 10%. Pull the pre x crowd into what was ICHIP (Run by BCBS for years). Give them the help they need, but dont screw everyone.

    And yes Chas, put Congress into PPACA too. See how they like it. Wonder what their plan costs the tax payers.

    If your not working this mess, you dont have all the facts. They did so poorly with the PPACA, American People should be demanding they but out of Health Care.

  • April 28, 2016 at 1:49 pm
    Henry in Texas says:
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    If you think the Texas State Pool was expensive, take a look at Obamacare. Higher premiums, higher deductible. The clients that moved out of the State Pool over 60 are paying more now than before. Use some of the Tax Money Obamacare is collecting to help cover the cost.

    • April 28, 2016 at 2:01 pm
      FFA says:
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      I moved one into the exchange I helped enroll in ICHIP in years past. They want what they had back – Their Plan, Thier Doctor.

      • April 28, 2016 at 3:05 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hi FFA, before I forget it, how do you like The Americans so far this year? That is a great show even if it is intense. A lot of twists and turns.

        On the subject matter, the Democrats headed by our esteemed leader completely rejected the Pool idea by Republicans and opted to put every chronically sick person in the regular market and charge them the same rates as the healthy. We can use North Carolina is a good example of how disastrous that idea was. Blue Cross, the #1 carrier in the state took in $70 million in premium counting subsidies and paid out $737 Million in claims to that 10% sick crowd. You don’t have to be a math major to know that will not work. We ruined healthcare for the 90% of Americans to benefit the chronically sick. What a sick idea.

        • April 29, 2016 at 9:28 am
          confused says:
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          “Blue Cross, the #1 carrier in the state took in $70 million in premium counting subsidies and paid out $737 Million in claims to that 10% sick crowd. You don’t have to be a math major to know that will not work.”

          And anyone in the industry will look at those numbers and ask “okay, but what was their return on investing that $70M? If they made $1B on their investments, then paying out $737M will work out just fine because they actually turned a profit!”

        • April 29, 2016 at 10:32 am
          FFA says:
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          I am glued to the TV during that show. Though for sure Phil was getting busted last week with Stan in the park looking for Martha. Could be the 2nd best show on TV these days.

          • April 29, 2016 at 11:18 am
            Agent says:
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            FFA, if it is the second best show on TV, what is your top choice? Mine is NCIS with Mark Harmon. Consistent high quality and no wonder it is the top rated show. Not sure why Denozo is leaving. Big mistake. Zeva is nowhere to be found after she left to pursue other opportunities.

          • April 29, 2016 at 2:15 pm
            FFA says:
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            Game of Throns ranks higher on my list. More action. More boobies. More blood. Both them shows leave me wondering what next… Sitting on the edge of my seat.

            NCIS is also a good one. I didnt know Denozo was leaving. Contract issues? They stay pretty consistent in their story lines and dont muck it up with side plots of romance in the work place. That always seems to ruin Good Guy vs Bad Guy shows like CSI NY & Miami. Years back, NYPD Blue, Law & Order.

            Chicago PD is another action packed show. Last week Chicago Fire almost brought a tear to my eye. Such a powerful statement about the violence in Chicago. Wonder if Rahm & the rest of them folks will ever get a grip on the crime down there.

          • April 29, 2016 at 5:10 pm
            Agent says:
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            Keri Russell(Elizabeth) is hot and compared to Martha, she is really hot. Martha just used as a tool for info. Now, they are flying her off to Russia. How will that work out for her? I was sorry to see them put a bullet into the young Russian woman. By the way, Stan is a total dufus and couldn’t find his butt with both hands. Russian spies living right across the street and he will never put two and two together.

          • May 3, 2016 at 2:52 pm
            FFA says:
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            Agent… My question is how good can he be knowing Martha was in that park and Philip was too. He leaves with out either. But he did figure MArtha out based on a gut feeling.

            The best place to hide something from me is right under my nose.

          • May 4, 2016 at 9:13 am
            Rosenblatt says:
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            You need to suspend reality with TV shows like The Americans and Breaking Bad. It took Hank Schrader (sp?) nearly the entire series to figure out his brother-in-law was Heisenberg. Would you say Hank was a total dufus and couldn’t find his butt with both hands too, Agent?

          • May 4, 2016 at 7:06 pm
            Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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            Better call Saul!

    • April 28, 2016 at 2:43 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      It’s easy to point to part of the problem; i.e. adverse selection due to a continuing inability to get young people to buy insurance and balance the pool of risks at a reasonable rate. So now, we have is a yuuuuge (borrowing Trump line) influx of sicker risks to drive up the avg costs by yuuuuge amounts. Thanks Obama! Thanks Gruber! Thanks Reid! Thanks Pelosi! And thanks Boehner and O’Connell for NOT doing anything to get rid of ACA {sarcasm}.

      • May 5, 2016 at 5:32 pm
        Agent says:
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        Rosenblatt, I don’t watch Breaking Bad. I don’t even like the title and don’t care what kind of plot they have. I think that Castle will be cancelled since Beckett is leaving. NCIS will do fine without Denozo since he is basically a dufus. He must have asked for a raise and CBS said – no way.

  • April 28, 2016 at 1:57 pm
    thuds36 says:
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    raised my right hand 4 times over 20+ years and swore to protect the Constitution of the United States of America. Which portion of “We the people….” do you NOT understand that begins same, and I will attempt to explain!

    • April 28, 2016 at 3:00 pm
      FFA says:
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      Thuds, What exactly are you trying to say? Are you Military? A Politician?

  • April 28, 2016 at 2:00 pm
    Bill Ford says:
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    We had thsi under the old program It was created as part of HIPAA in 1992. Unless they mandate these markets are made transparent and easy to find the industry and co opted insurance departments will hide them. In Georgia for instance unless you knew to type in medical assignment program you would never find it and no insurance department employee would help. Correct thsi and it will work.

    • April 28, 2016 at 2:13 pm
      FFA says:
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      When I took the licensing exam in 1985, it was a question on the test.

    • April 29, 2016 at 8:43 am
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      INCREASING competition in the market by state licensing changes will make the pools more ‘visible’ because the companies can send the risks to the pools, directly or by writing then ceding them. MORE companies sharing/ splitting the pool subsidization generally yields less risk in participating in those pools.

  • April 28, 2016 at 2:02 pm
    thuds36 says:
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    What port of the Constitution that begins with, “We the people…..” do none of you understand and I will, in from my 20+ years of active duty military service attempt to explain

    • April 28, 2016 at 3:07 pm
      Agent says:
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      thuds, have you experienced the wonderful service of the VA?

      • May 5, 2016 at 9:00 am
        Ron says:
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        Since my plan would eliminate the terrible VA, thank you for the endorsement.

  • April 29, 2016 at 8:53 am
    Ron says:
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    Can someone explain why it matters whether we subsidize sick people through higher health insurance premiums or higher taxes? It is still money coming out of the pockets of healthy people to help the sick. I would think Republicans would rather the money be filtered through private health insurance companies instead of the government.

    How come the Republicans are now favoring more government intervention into health care?

    • April 29, 2016 at 10:38 am
      FFA says:
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      I believe the carrier would respond by putting the good policies back on the market and restoring the Networks that PPACA forced their hand to tear down.

      This plan sounds like less govt intervention then we currently have. More then was because the Carriers took care of the ICHIP plans. Plan designs were such that they didnt make money, but were able to keep them alive through the investment income they realized.

      Tearing down the PPACA would also lighten the burden on everyone as we would not be funding the web site not the poorly trained Pakistanis staffing the 800 pin head number.

      • April 29, 2016 at 10:39 am
        FFA says:
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        Not to mention lowering the massive amount of paper generated by the Market Place. Seems every other month I and my wife – separate envelopes are getting a 6 page document printed on both sides.

        • April 29, 2016 at 11:21 am
          Agent says:
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          Well, Blue Cross, the “all in” market is very busy with all the updates, changes, reduction in drug formularies, telling agents they won’t get commission on new business etc. I usually get about 3 bulletins a week. Wonderful!

    • April 29, 2016 at 2:18 pm
      FFA says:
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      And Ron, the govt can not be trusted with our money aas they have proven time and again.

      • April 29, 2016 at 3:50 pm
        Ron says:
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        FFA,

        Private companies, whose sole purpose is to maximize profits, cannot be trusted with our money either. See all of the Wall Street scandals and bailouts. Sounds like we just need to accept the fact that we are screwed.

        • April 29, 2016 at 4:01 pm
          FFA says:
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          UGHH….

        • May 4, 2016 at 8:19 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          As a stockholder, I LIKE/ PREFER private companies maximizing my money, as opposed to the Federal Government LOSING money by playing Ponzi schemes with the US taxpayers; e.g. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and ACA. And don’t forget about gas taxes that were originally destined to rebuild roads and bridges, but which never were directed toward those objectives! My auto’s suspension will need plenty of work very soon.

          • May 4, 2016 at 10:13 am
            UW says:
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            Since your delusions now have you thinking you’re a teacher can you please inform the class about this conspiracy theory where highways aren’t funded in part by gas taxes and apparently this money is funneled somewhere else?

            You are seriously becoming (or revealing your) Agent or Bob-level insanity. No facts, and a conspiracy theory, or outright lie for every inconvenient reality.

    • April 30, 2016 at 2:50 pm
      Kevin says:
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      Ron good point. There is some difference in terms of income distribution and who pays. In the current system of disallowing price discrimination for pre existing conditions everyone who has health insurance pays in the form of higher premiums. If taxes were used to cover the price difference for insuring Americans in ill health, I suspect that more of the cost would be born by higher-income taxpayers, although I’ve not seen an analysis of this. In theory, then, a tax-based subsidy or credit for pre existing conditions would seem more progressive. The recent Republican “risk pool” proposal is along these lines. The challenge is providing sufficient tax funding so that poor Americans in ill health can get insurance.

      • May 4, 2016 at 10:48 am
        UW says:
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        Kevin, if price discrimination was again allowed for people with preexisting conditions many would again just go to the hospital when an emergency occurred, because they couldn’t afford healthcare. It would have worse outcomes, and be more expensive, as these people are still treated, but at a higher price for emergency care, and they price is passed on to others.

        A tax credit would not be effective here, because the same people being subsidized by Obamacare would lafgely be the people receiving this care and the credits, but tax credits are useless if you don’t have significantly taxable income, which they don’t, nor do the majority of people in the country when it comes to something as expensive as health care.

        The analysis on the risk pools shows them to be more expensive, and the GOP has already blocked funding that is much lower than need for these.

    • May 2, 2016 at 10:31 am
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      You incorrectly assume the higher costs should be SUBSIDIZED rather than REDUCED through aggressive cost control efforts, tort law reform that reduce med mal premiums that are passed along by medical service providers to their patients, and increased effort to detect and correct fraud & waste.

      For that, you must stay after class and write on the whiteboard 1000 times “I will not subsidize stuff that doesn’t need to be subsidized.”

      Republicans may not be favoring more gummint intervention…. other than to get gummint out of healthcare after the ACA got the camels nose further under the tent than Medicare/ Medicaid/ VA Healthcare. Wait for their plan and comment then (July?).

  • April 29, 2016 at 3:23 pm
    UW says:
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    Paul Ryan is a fraud, his “budgets” were fraudulent from top to bottom. These pools don’t work. He knows even if they were implemented they wouldn’t fund them, so it’s just a way to lie and try to change policy that even 70% of Republicans like (no exclusions for preexisting conditions) through the backdoor.

    Handling everything through a single system is more efficient. Putting these at a state level guarantees a race to the bottom because no state will want to attract a lot of sick people to their programs.

    Even conservative policy places and pieces, like Capretta’s have shown they don’t work, and are more expensive. They aren’t new, they were already in use in 35 states, and we’re an outright disaster. Policies oftentimes had $75k limits with deductibles as high as $25k.

    We already implemented the old conservative plan, it’s called Obamacare. If the US wants cheaper Healthcare the only solution is a government run single-payer program, despite what the morons above scream about.

    I can’t believe people here are still stupid enough to recite Palin’s rhetoric about death panels. Idiots, to a man.

    • April 29, 2016 at 5:14 pm
      Agent says:
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      The real idiots are the ones who thought this would work from Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer on down to the last Progressive politician. This is the biggest fraud ever passed by Congress and Republicans are not responsible for it. They just have to clean up the mess. Recent elections have proven the American people get it and want it gone, but not to Single Payer which would be even a bigger disaster. Do some research sometime and pontificate how great the economy is doing under your leader.

      • April 30, 2016 at 12:10 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Pontificate? You want someone to officiate as a bishop or express his or her opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic? Not sure about the former, but isn’t the latter what you do on a regular basis? Maybe just stick to the two syllable words you know the meanings of, Agent.

        How many consecutive months of job growth have we had? Conversely, how many were we losing month in and month out under G-Dubb?

      • May 2, 2016 at 11:52 am
        UW says:
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        I need to research the economy is hilarious coming from the outright moron who claims unemployment has increased under Obama, and that we have experienced runaway inflation in the US. Get a grip idiot, you are repeating the same BS hundreds of times here, and refuse to actually comment with anybody who disagrees with you.

        Everybody is tired of it, and tired of you. Go to Stormfront, or another group where the intellectual smut you peddle is accepted.

        Also, idiot, my research is accurate, but a borderline illiterate life yourself things anything different than what you believe is automatically wrong.

    • May 2, 2016 at 10:39 am
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      Handling everything through a single system is more efficient?!…. like The VA, your state’s DMV, and Medicare / Medicaid… ?

      Or, are you talking about Socialized medicine in the UK, Canada, or other Socialist / Communist countries like Cuba, Venezuela or California? Oops! California isn’t a Socialist country….. yet.

      I doubt most Republicans associate themselves with Sarah Palin. More might want to be associated with Michael Palin than Sarah Palin.

      By making an assumption / generalization, you must also assume Democrats associate themselves with Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, Bill Clinton, John Edwards, etc.

      • May 2, 2016 at 1:59 pm
        UW says:
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        Yes Yogi, a larger means of production is more efficient, look into economies of scale, but since you brought it up, yes those European nations also have cheaper, better systems, good point. Also, since you seem to be uninformed on the matter, the government healthcare groups you rant about generally have lower overhead costs than private groups, their problems are based on being underfunded and dealing with higher risk patients, not inefficiency, no matter how many times you repeat that false information.

        No, many Republicans don’t want to be associated with Palin, but, most, including you above, repeat the same ignorant BS. You repeated almost word for word her moronic claims about death panels. It’s stupid, and not based on reality, nor the laws under Obama care. So no, you don’t claim association with her, you just repeat and agree with her. It’s similar to how it is so hard to find one of you guys who admits to have supported the Iraq War based on what was going on at the time. So, recheck your idiotic statement about Clinton et al, and apply it when people are repeating the exact same talking points they bring up, years after they are disproven.

      • May 2, 2016 at 6:06 pm
        Yogi Polar Berra says:
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        Apparently, you only studied some of your economics book. Economies of scale are an important part of reducing/ minimizing costs. However, a single payer system, supported through mandated taxes, is akin to a monopoly.

        You’d fail my economics class were I an ‘dismal science professor’.

        But, I’m just slightly smarter than an average Polar Berra, not a professor, so I offer this advice; competition among multiple sellers is necessary to motivate them to be innovative, cost efficient, and thus undercut each other via price incentives. Buyers must be able to shop for the optimal price in a market of more than one seller.

        A single payer gummint bureaucracy relying on a steady/ inelastic stream of taxes for revenue isn’t motivated to do anything efficiently. Disagree? Give me examples to refute my claim.

        Now, let’s talk about ‘service’. The AAA provides some services that the state DMVs do, and so some auto drivers opt to go through the AAA, if they are members. Why izat? Know anyone who goes to the VA Hospital / clinic for healthcare service? Do they think it’s efficient and timely? I know through multiple experiences with a relative about their ‘single provider’ gummint bureaucracy procedures, which interfere with their staff’s good intentions.

        • May 3, 2016 at 8:31 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Libraries, the armed services, law enforcement, fire fighters, Eisenhower’s Interstate Highway, US Postal Services, schools, National parks…

          • May 3, 2016 at 2:57 pm
            FFA says:
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            Cap, you travel the Ike to get to the UC for the bulls games? I would think the Reagan would be a more direct route.

          • May 4, 2016 at 10:46 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            FFA,
            Another good one there! Bulls stunk it up this season, hoping for better results with Freddie next year.

          • May 5, 2016 at 2:03 pm
            FFA says:
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            Rose needs to go. He spends more time on the bench whining about hang nails then he does playing. Cant trade him because of his contract and his tendency to be hurt all the time. Then he milks it.

          • May 5, 2016 at 5:38 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, did you follow the Bears on the draft? Did they get anyone good who can help their fortunes? Dallas did a bit better than some of the recent past, but Jones took that linebacker from Notre Dame in the second round and he has a torn up knee and can’t play for a year????????? Hmm, do they have to pay him big money to sit? I read that the kid got an insurance policy in case his value was diminished due to injury. Maybe he can live on that while rehabbing.

        • May 3, 2016 at 8:35 am
          Ron says:
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          Yogi Polar Berra,

          You said, “Economies of scale are an important part of reducing/ minimizing costs.” Isn’t reducing health care costs a main staple of the Republican’s plan?

          A single payer system is no more a monopoly than how we pay for military equipment and infrastructure. The companies doing the actual work are private companies, paid by the government from taxes.

          You are confusing efficiency in premium payments and treatment/administration. As I have stated, the best system is to continue to allow private companies to administer the health care. My plan would eliminate Medicare, Medicaid and the VA. You know, actual government involvement in health care administration. How is that a bad thing?

          Do you think private companies want to bring the poor and elderly into their programs? Shouldn’t our veterans have more options for health care?

          Creating more competition always sounds like a good idea, but what is you plan to reduce the barriers of entry for new health care companies? What capital requirements should be instituted? Who wants to get into a business where you either lose money or need to charge prohibitive premiums? Will you allow companies to have underwriting freedom and let them deny treatment or exclude people with pre-existing conditions or high risk (elderly and returning veterans)?

          The private sector has had many decades to come up with a solution and they have failed. It is time to try something different.

          • May 3, 2016 at 2:58 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron, how did creating more competition work out for the PPACA? How many start up failures? How many mergers? How many State exchanges busted out?

          • May 4, 2016 at 8:04 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            That was my point. Creating competition in the health insurance industry is not the solution. However, that is what the Republicans are selling as their solution.

          • May 4, 2016 at 2:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron, I my opinion, there is no one solution as there is no single factor driving the cost.

            Everything from top to bottom on the expense ledger needs to be scrubbed.

          • May 4, 2016 at 11:54 pm
            UW says:
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            So FFA, you want competition, but not failures–impossible and nonsensical– and you want rates to decrease, even though every projection showed astronomical increases, and the analyses show Obamacare has slowed cost increases by even more than projected. Okay, well that is a fantasy, completely detached from reality.

          • May 5, 2016 at 2:01 pm
            FFA says:
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            UW, Pre ACA, there was plenty of competition. The start up came in under priced so as to buy the business. What happened is the start ups with cheaper then market level premiums bit off a chunk of the Pre X folks.

            Pre ACA, there was a real stop loss so I could budget my worst case annually.

            Pre ACA, we had broad networks. Neither holds true now.

        • May 3, 2016 at 11:57 am
          UW says:
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          Luckily for students everywhere you couldn’t ever be an economics professor, because you need to know economics first. You ignore the evidence worldwide about it being a superior system, but you also have an econ 101 understanding of monopolies. Unfortunately there are courses above 101. Healthcare is not a free market, you have no ability not to participate, on top of that the private companies are essentially already an oligopoly, and don’t pass on any of the benefits of a market. A government system is the only answer when non-participation in the market means death or financial ruin. Also, it doesn’t create a monopoly, despite your well-recited talking point, because people can still buy supplemental insurance on top of it. In Europe this is done regularly by the wealthy in order to have private rooms, etc, and is affordable because their system is significantly cheaper. So, wrong again on both the reality and the theory.

          I come from a military town and know dozens of people who use the VA, and they overwhelmingly approve of it despite what right-wingers claim. The outcomes there have been found to be as good, or better than in private systems according to studies by people like Ross (in Arch Internal Medicine, 08). VA wait times are trashed, but it’s only an issue people stick entirely on them because they actually studied it, and are accountable. Studies show private wait times are about the same, and they’re mainly long at the VA because of non-emergencies, with no appointment. But hey, you said “gummit”, and think it’s terrible, so case closed.

          The same goes for the DMV. Yeah, it sucks going there, but mainly because there is nothing there anybody wants to do, and the private places that provide more than vision testing are just as bad, cost more (no economies of scale) and do less. So just life the health care system you prefer.

          • May 3, 2016 at 3:00 pm
            FFA says:
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            You would want to avoid Edwards in Chicago. One of their main guys is under fire for letting people die so as to not incur the cost of saving them. Its an ugly mess….

        • May 3, 2016 at 12:06 pm
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          I’m all for Gummint overseeing libraries, the mil, fire fighters, Highways.

          USPO should be privatized because UPS, Fedex, DHL etc have ALL proven to be better, and they compete with each other.

          OTOH, who can see any way for TWO or more US military units competing to defend the USA? Two or more highways, built by different entities? Two libraries in close proximity? Those three situations would be redundant and inefficient.

          • May 3, 2016 at 2:39 pm
            UW says:
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            Every single example you asked about here exists as 2+ in places, most in the US., but are also irrelevant. We have private toll roads competing, multiple libraries and bookstores in close proximity in many places , as well as numerous free book sites online, and many places have private militia forces.

            You are uninformed here. Also, “gummit” is used to mock idiots generally making points similar to those you make here, not to mock government.

            Government does interject itself into those insurances you mention, eg outlawing price optimization many places, as one noted idiot here loves to rant about, requiring notices of cancelation, and requiring it in many circumstances.. But, you can opt out of a liability, auto, property, etc. Situation and not pass on externalities to others, you cannot do the same with healthcare unless you are extremely wealthy.

            Those lines aren’t heavily influenced by the age of the population and the costs of recovery. Health care here is exorbitantly expensive, and is going to increase as the population increases-something I’ve yet to see a single right-winger here acknowledge. The industry was already in a death spiral before Obamacare, or was very close to one.

        • May 3, 2016 at 12:12 pm
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          Yes, Ron, Gummint could stick itself into the mix as an intermediary. That is inefficient. Does the gummint involve itself in Auto insurance, life insurance, general liability…. ? Why not? Why aren’t those lines failing like the ACA?

          Gummint-involvement costs must be eliminated if they (Republicans) are truly trying to reduce ‘middle man’ costs.

          The legislation said it wasn’t a tax.

          • May 3, 2016 at 12:13 pm
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            correction: the AUTHOR of the legislation said it wasn’t a tax.

          • May 4, 2016 at 8:18 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            What do think is more efficient; government as an intermediary or as an administrator?

            While I prefer a private sector solution to our health care/insurance problems we have had for decades, they have proven to not be interested.

            Regarding the other lines of insurance, one word: Underwriting. Those other lines have been profitable from an underwriting stand point, while providing capacity for nearly every risk. In addition, if someone is excluded, it very rarely turns into bankruptcy.

          • May 4, 2016 at 8:27 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            Gummint as a ‘regulator of last resort’ is the ONLY efficient way to involve Gummint in ANY business activity!

          • May 4, 2016 at 10:06 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            I gave you 2 options and you did not select either. I did not ask an open-ended question regarding efficiency.

            What is the private health care sector’s solution for the poor, elderly, sick and veterans? Why have they not been able to address these risks in an affordable and profitable manner?

            If we were to take the government totally out of the health care administration (Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA), which I assume you would prefer, which of these 3 options would you prefer:

            a. Allow companies to exclude or charge the appropriate premium for the high risk individuals mentioned above;
            b. Put all citizens on the same plan, collect premiums through taxes, then pay private companies to administer the health care; or
            c. Write in your own plan that works for all American citizens that will profitable for private companies.

          • May 4, 2016 at 2:26 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron – C. Address the underlying factors that drive the cost up. Start with Tort Reform.

          • May 4, 2016 at 2:49 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            If that were the solution, why have the private insurance companies done anything to address the underlying costs?

            All of the studies I have seen regarding tort reform, of which I am an advocate, puts the savings between 1 and 2%. Savings? Yes. Significant enough to encourage private companies to write high risk people, highly unlikely.

          • May 4, 2016 at 3:01 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron – Because the courts will not cooperate. My wife pain doc will not prescribe pain meds because too many people have got hooked and then successfully sued the docs. Off the record, the doc told her to start smoking pot. hmmmmm. Go see a pain shrink.

            Talk to the Health Plan, they say its against Market Place Guide lines.

            1 & 2% start is better then 0%. Next on my personal list is to stream line the billing process. Instead of getting 5 bills for one visit, send one bill.

            Set the networks to the docs. If the doc has privileges at a hospital, then the hospital is in network. Same with imaging & labs which is where the PPACA screwed me bad.

            Who do you believe any more?

          • May 4, 2016 at 4:26 pm
            SWFL Agent says:
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            As much as we all dislike lawyers and want to blame medical costs on them, medical costs are increasing because of new costly technologies that treat previously untreatable medical conditions, new costly drugs, and our preference to use every medical procedure available to keep us alive. Our civil liberties allows us to eat, drink, and smoke whatever we want and we pay for it through higher medical cost later. We cure the smoker’s lung cancer just to treat another problem down the road. 20 years ago when you had ED, you were done. Now it’s a medical condition that we expect to remedy and it’s costly. This isn’t cell phones we’re talking about. Advances in medical technologies most often don’t lower cost.

          • May 4, 2016 at 4:37 pm
            FFA says:
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            SWFLA True on that. Never looked at through them eyes.

          • May 4, 2016 at 11:59 pm
            UW says:
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            “Gummint as a ‘regulator of last resort’ is the ONLY efficient way to involve Gummint in ANY business activity!”

            Says Yogi, on the internet, created and funded by the government.

          • May 5, 2016 at 12:02 am
            UW says:
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            Yes, making it difficult or impossible to seek and receive compensation after being wronged by a doctor is the cure for the problem of an aging population if you live in a fantasy world. In reality, not so much. It seems to me not a single right-winger here has read a single actual academic study or industry piece on health care in the US.

            Tort reform was instituted in parts of Texas, and had no effect.

          • May 5, 2016 at 8:57 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            I understand your frustrations. My wife just completed cancer treatments and we just found out, months after the treatments began, that the radiologist is out-of-network.

            If stream lined billing would be such a significant cost savings, why haven’t the private sector come up with a solution?

            We need to stop worrying about who we trust or believe. The reality is that private health insurance companies have zero appetite for high risk individuals unless they are guaranteed to have very low risk individuals on the books. It is simple insurance methodology. What better way to guarantee this, and the premiums, than my plan? That way, everyone is covered, everyone is paying some portion of the premium, the government is removed as an administrator of health care (Medicaid, Medicare and VA), and the private companies have a balanced and profitable book, and we create more jobs. Everybody wins.

          • May 5, 2016 at 1:56 pm
            FFA says:
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            @ Ron “If stream lined billing would be such a significant cost savings, why haven’t the private sector come up with a solution?”

            I dont have an answer for that. I would accept Govt intrusion on that point forcing that issue. Making it Mandatory that whom ever your PCP refers you to is in the same network.

            I am sorry to hear about your wife and the C word. I hope all goes well with her treatment.

          • May 6, 2016 at 12:00 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            I am the only one proposing a plan that would remove the government from health care administration, including paperwork, and let the free market work its magic. And they call me a Socialist.

          • May 6, 2016 at 1:45 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron, I know your wheels are turning for a better system. Allowing Govt to collect premiums and send them to the carrier has proven to be a bad thing. I could not explain to my customer why they were paying premiums to the market place and BCBS was declining coverage based on Non Pay. Not only that, they have a tendency to grab what money the can and apply it to something that it was not intended for.

            Seems to be the only point you and I cant come to an agreement on.

          • May 6, 2016 at 2:20 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            I am just sick and tired of the same ole “solutions” to health care that do not work, including socialized medicine. We need go outside of the box.

            You said, “Allowing Govt to collect premiums and send them to the carrier has proven to be a bad thing.” It has worked for other industries such as defense contractors, infrastructure, and education, to name a few.

            You said, “I could not explain to my customer why they were paying premiums to the market place and BCBS was declining coverage based on Non Pay. Not only that, they have a tendency to grab what money the can and apply it to something that it was not intended for.” My plan would eliminate all of these issues because it would remove the marketplace as an intermediary and people would not have individual policies to which payments would need to be applied in order to have coverage.

            I hope someday you will see that my plan has a solution for nearly any real issue people have had regarding health care insurance.

          • May 6, 2016 at 2:27 pm
            FFA says:
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            Carriers getting premiums from clients was not an issue…

          • May 6, 2016 at 3:53 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            We all know that private companies have no problem collecting the premiums. It is the important problems for which they have no solution.

          • May 9, 2016 at 1:48 pm
            FFA says:
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            Putting premium collections back into the hands of the carrier would solve a problem that wasn’t existent prior to the ACA.

            As far as GC markup on the govt contracts, as I have stated before, all things need to be looked at top to bottom.

            If they are gouging, they are done. If they are reasonable, they keep the contract. Seems Trump would be a qualified candidate to sift through Govt Contractors. He has had enough experience in his private dealings.

          • May 9, 2016 at 2:04 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            Do you really believe a President Trump will have the time to go through each of these contracts? As the president, he will have far more important things taking up his time.

          • May 9, 2016 at 4:29 pm
            FFA says:
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            Not personally. His advisers can. I seen he is looking at Christy to head up his transition team.

        • May 5, 2016 at 5:16 pm
          Agent says:
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          Yogi, the dismal professor at MIT, Gruber failed the Economics class as well and then brazenly lied about it on video. Wasn’t as bright as he thought he was, was he?

    • May 3, 2016 at 9:20 am
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      Is Paul Ryan actually writing the new RNC healthcare plan? If so, who is the dunce who signed him up for that task?

      Which ‘morons above’ screamed about pool plans that never work? Some wrote about state pool plans that were much better alternatives than the ACA.

      Why not try something new that uses something that worked fairly well, but not perfectly, in the past, instead of stick with something that is a PROVEN disaster?

      • May 4, 2016 at 10:07 am
        UW says:
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        Ryan is the Speaker, and he is the one calling for this, he will without a doubt be in on the bill. You’re clueless if you doubt that.

        The morons above include you, for incorrectly stating pool plans are better alternatives than Obama are, ignoring their history. They didn’t work fairly new, and Obamacare is not a proven disaster, it has expanded care, and slowed premium increases, and no amount of whining and lying by you guys will change that reality.

  • May 4, 2016 at 2:23 pm
    FFA says:
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    UW – Really??? OBama Care is not a disaster? Let me guess, you have not worked that market at all. You do not have a market place policy. You dont understand that jamming everyone – including Medicare & Medicaid – into the system all at the same time – right before the holidays when Internet traffic peaks is as bad of an idea as they get.

    Are them guesses accurate?

    The only complaints I ever had about I Chip was the high price and high deductible / co pays. Now, on top of them complaints, we have – Why isnt the carrier getting my premiums? Why are the networks so restrictive? Why cant I keep my doctor? Why is there no stop loss (the never ending co pay)?

    You really need to stop listening to what OBama wants you to hear and listen to Joe Average Main st USA person.

    Until you work it, you dont have all the facts. It may have slowed premiums, but it has dramatically increased oop expense due to the Never Ending Co Pay and the massive spike in Deductibles and the now common 70% Co Insurance.

    • May 5, 2016 at 12:07 am
      UW says:
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      “Are them guesses accurate?”

      Nope. Maybe you should operate with facts and not guesses.

      “OBama Care is not a disaster?”

      Premiums and costs have increased by less than projected with Obamacare, and by significantly less than without it. That is with more people covered, and better coverage. Of course, you are incapable of looking at the system as a whole, or anything you personally haven’t experienced (which is why you are a conservative), so those facts don’t matter.

      “It may have slowed premiums, but it has dramatically increased oop expense due to the Never Ending Co Pay and the massive spike in Deductibles and the now common 70% Co Insurance.”

      Not true society-wide, as the studies show, but you seem to be on a publicly subsidized system, in a state with tax and revenue problems, and basing it on this. Maybe you should look at the bill as a whole, and not how it affected your 1 program, mainly provided by a state, or read a SINGLE actual study on it, because almost everything you state is not only BS, but proven to be wrong, or completely irrelevant.

  • May 5, 2016 at 1:53 pm
    FFA says:
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    Have you worked the system? Not sure why you think the issues are just me. It has increased OOP cost to everyone I know in the system. Now, Humana is announcing a pull out. Why? Cause the system is flawed.

    Introduce me to one person that has experienced lower oop.

    Studies put out the the OBama Admin? Really? An Il Politician that has direct ties to convicted felons (Levine & Rezco) that have direct ties to Blago another convicted felon?

    Have no Fear. Trump is almost here.

    • May 5, 2016 at 5:21 pm
      Agent says:
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      FFA, you need to give up trying to reason with a young, inexperienced Progressive Socialist know it all troll. Bob has tried several times without success. He isn’t interested in real life experiences like you and I have had with this travesty. His deal is believing Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Gruber, Schumer, Hilliary and all the other minions in the White House and Congress that voted this in.

      • May 6, 2016 at 11:58 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        Have you noticed that FFA and I have had several debates without insults? That proves that I can disagree with someone and have a civil debate. Can you or Bob? I have yet to see it.

      • May 6, 2016 at 1:51 pm
        FFA says:
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        I taught one of my nephews that recently graduated college a lesson he didnt like much.
        He was beating the Sanders drum one night while we were playing cards. So, I reached into his pile of money and grabbed some. He asked what I was doing and I told him he had money, I didnt and I wanted some of his even though I didnt win it. As he sat there with his stunned look in his face I asked “How does the Bern feel?”. Of course, I gave him his money back. explaining the republican way is that he earned it so he gets to keep it.

        • May 6, 2016 at 4:30 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, more bad news on the Health front. Story today that the formerly solvent Idaho exchange is in serious trouble and may have to close. Wow, these success stories about the travesty just keep on coming.

          • May 9, 2016 at 2:19 pm
            FFA says:
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            I havent heard about that one. I know in IL, Quinn took the Fed Money to set up the exchange. Wonder what happened to that? Now the Treasurer is wanting to with hold Law Makers pay checks and pay the social service folks with that cash.

        • May 9, 2016 at 8:33 am
          Ron says:
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          FFA,

          So, when the government takes my hard earned money and hands it over to private contractors who inflate their costs to the tune of millions, if not billions of dollars, to increase their wealth without doing the extra work, that is OK?

          I would much rather that money to go to people who are struggling to make ends meet and raise a family, than corporate fat cats who exploit the system.

          • May 9, 2016 at 2:17 pm
            FFA says:
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            Every thing needs to be looked at. Top to bottom on the expense ledger.

          • May 9, 2016 at 2:51 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            That is something I believe we can all agree on.

          • May 10, 2016 at 12:38 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, did you see the story on Townhall about the disaster unfolding in Venezuela, the noted Socialist/Communist state? They can’t feed their people down there so dogs, cats, birds are being used for food. Perhaps another revolution is in the offing to throw out the dictators of the proletariat in charge.



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