Out-of-Pocket Hospital Costs Were Rising 6.5% a Year… Before Obamacare

By Amrith Ramkumar | June 28, 2016

  • June 28, 2016 at 7:18 am
    Valerie says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    It used to cost me a 20.00 co pay at the doc to get my meds refilled and a 4.00 copay for my lab work for my blood work to check for my cholesterol. Now I pay 180.00 for my lab work and 100.00 for my doc bill and this is for a “wellness” check up!!!! This must happen every 6 months! Of course we are also paying 430.00 a month for my husband and myself. Thank you Mr. Obama!!

    • June 28, 2016 at 8:00 am
      WooWood says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Obama care is making everyone to pay for the health insurance so that we can cover the poor who without health insurance. I personally know many people who considered themselves poor just want to get all the free things from uncle sam.

      • June 28, 2016 at 2:56 pm
        FFA says:
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        Valerie – Is that subsidized premiums? Employee Share? Need more info to form a true opinion.

        • June 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, Valerie has to have subsidy premiums to cover herself and husband. As they say in the NFL. Come on man!

          • June 28, 2016 at 5:18 pm
            FFA says:
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            I know. Trying to find out of Val does.

            Speaking of the NFL, So long Buddy Ryan! Was great to have you in Chicago.

          • June 28, 2016 at 5:46 pm
            Agent says:
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            Yes, I saw that on Ryan. He was one tough football coach. That 46 defense he invented for the Bears is pretty much a legend. However, I didn’t care much for him when he was with Philly. He would go after and try to hurt players and one year, he put a bounty on the Dallas kicker trying to get him out of the game. That was uncalled for.

          • June 28, 2016 at 11:05 pm
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            If the NFL expanded with a new team called Polar Bears, they’d kick the Chicago Bears butts every time! ;)

          • June 29, 2016 at 5:14 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ok Cheese Head. Just cause you have a star QB dont mean you can beat AZ. Hes just got no one to throw to.

    • June 28, 2016 at 8:19 am
      SWFL Agent says:
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      Wow Valerie. I’d love to have your monthly premiums. Congratulations, you’re very fortunate.

    • June 28, 2016 at 2:27 pm
      Drstrangeglove says:
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      Sounds like a Bush-initiated HSA. I have one too and they were Bush’s contribution to healthcare reform which at the time was seen as insufficient (didn’t approach any of the structural issues inflating cost) and favoring those with more money, until the cost of healthcare ballooned to the point of them actually saving consumers money compared to lower deductible plans. This is pre Obama. To your second point, a “wellness” exam is not routine checkup; for example my annual checkups along with cholesterol and lipids and enzymes are part of a standard maintenance exam but not wellness as defined in health plans. I could probably find a doctor somewhere who would include my lab within a wellness exam, which is, properly speaking, a head to toe physical, and this would absorb my self-pay fee on my HSA into the gratis physical/wellness exam, but I would still pay for my lab. I don’t think Obama had anything to do with your issue as discussed, but I do feel your pain.

    • June 29, 2016 at 2:53 pm
      David says:
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      BUt, you neglect to mention that pre-ACA, if you got cancer, you’d probably lose your house and your retirement money paying everything beyond the cap. Post-ACA, now you probably only have to end up paying 20% of that amount. To get something, you have to give something. While it causes you to rethink how you plan for health care expenses, it’s better for you long-term (and the entire system) than under the previous system. Now, unfortunately, that only solves half of the problem. Let’s move to the doctor/hospital side and get more transparency in costs.

      • June 29, 2016 at 5:17 pm
        FFA says:
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        Dave, it didnt solve that problem either. The never ending Co Pay, high deds and network confusion, people still have large med bills to deal with. In IL, Wi & Indiana, Pre X Policies were available. So it didn’t solve that issue.

        • June 30, 2016 at 7:47 am
          Ron says:
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          My plan would solve those problems. Just sayin’.

          • June 30, 2016 at 12:28 pm
            FFA says:
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            Dont trust the govt Ron.

          • June 30, 2016 at 1:06 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            Don’t trust for-profit corporations.

            Looks like we are running out entities to trust.

  • June 28, 2016 at 7:59 am
    WooWood says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    Middle class with need to pay more for the insurance and out of pocket. If you poor and low income family; the health insurance mostly paid by the government.

  • June 28, 2016 at 8:07 am
    FERLING says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    How much cheaper would it be under a republican president?

    • June 28, 2016 at 12:42 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      VERY much cheaper.

      • June 28, 2016 at 1:29 pm
        FERLING says:
        Hot debate. What do you think?
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        Sounds like a Trump supporter? Do you have a $ amount on how much cheaper? Do you have info. to back it up? I think you might be a “Pocahontas” in bear clothing? Care for a round of golf while we lower you insurance cost? The Shepard spoke and the sheep followed blindly? Can I have a Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

        • June 28, 2016 at 2:05 pm
          Dave says:
          Hot debate. What do you think?
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          A Republican would have instituted major tort reform which would have helped drive medical costs down to at least slowed the growth. All Obamacare did was shift who was going to pay for medical care by sticking to anybody making $75,000 or more with more taxes and forcing man off their employer’s medical plan. Obama had to take care of his plaintiff lawyer buddies.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HcWd5ifBA&index=82&list=FL9lJuRBjktDPY_TeM76IBSw

          • June 28, 2016 at 2:19 pm
            Ron says:
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            Dave,

            While I advocate for tort reform as a way to streamline the court system, it has not worked with health care in TX.

            http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/new-study-tort-reform-has-not-reduced-health-care-/nRpcp/

            Why would it work nationally?

          • June 28, 2016 at 3:10 pm
            Bill says:
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            Tort reform has been talked about for a decade or more. You really think all the attorneys in Congress are going to ever get around to actually looking at it? I can guarantee you that if they should, one side would have their answer and the other side would have their answer. Of course each side would be miles apart so absolutely nothing would get done. Sound familiar?

          • June 29, 2016 at 9:12 am
            actu says:
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            So less personal responsibility on the part of health care providers when one of the leading causes of death is medical errors will somehow decrease costs and improve the health care system, even though it failed in Texas and other places.

            We should make it harder to sue after car crashes in order to increase safety on the road.

      • June 28, 2016 at 11:09 pm
        Yogi Polar Berra says:
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        Yes, a Republican plan will address the costs, lowering them, rather than approach the issue how Dems did by playing a shell game, shifting insurance premiums into the deductible bucket.

        • June 29, 2016 at 7:42 am
          Ron says:
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          Yogi Polar Berra,

          Since we have had escalating health care costs for decades, where was the Republican plan from 2003-07 when they controlled all 3 branches of government?

          • June 29, 2016 at 10:02 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            It’s NOT the responsibility of Gummint to force citizens to buy a commodity, as it violates their Constitutional rights.

            Go debate your flawed premise with some dunce who doesn’t understand the Constitution and is willing to allow you to drag them down to your level of comprehension of the term ‘liberty and freedom’.

            Citizens should demand lower costs from their health insurers by shopping for best price, not via gummint regulations and unconstitutional laws. Also, they can buy basic necessary coverage rather than opt for comprehensive medical coverage of everything they want, rather than need.

          • June 29, 2016 at 11:15 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            When did I say it was? Exactly how many times do I have to say that I, and always have been, against the PPACA before you righties get it through your thick skulls?

            You are the one who said, “Yes, a Republican plan will address the costs, lowering them…” I just wanted to know why they did not implement their plan when they had the chance. It would have saved us a bunch of money and grief.

            You advocate for private market solutions, yet they have no motivation nor desire to provide them. How is that the government’s fault?

          • June 29, 2016 at 6:17 pm
            UW says:
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            Yogi, it’s not unconstitutional, as the Supreme Court stated. Just because you disagree with it doesn’t make it illegal, no matter how much the idiots on right wing media claim otherwise.

            It’s also not a commodity as it cannot be sold to others, traded, etc. Feel free to learn the first thing about economics, politics, law, or really anything else before commenting on it.

    • June 28, 2016 at 2:36 pm
      FFA says:
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      With the rate hikes hitting mail boxes on Nov 1st, we will find out soon enough. Republican battle cry will be if you like your rate you can keep it.
      Not a fan of Trump, but a hater of the ACA.

      • June 28, 2016 at 3:01 pm
        Ron says:
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        FFA,

        Gary Johnson is also against the PPACA. Just sayin’.

        • June 28, 2016 at 3:44 pm
          FFA says:
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          Ron, he dont stand a chance. Need to take the best chance and run with it.

          I would feel much better about trump if he picks a military man – an Oli North type – for his VP. Then someone with foreign relations experience for Sect of State. He has more then enough Business Smarts for that part of the job.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:03 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, many are now promoting Newt Gingrich as a running mate since he is smart as a whip, has been Speaker of the House, did the contract with America to shut down Slick Willy’s attempt at Progressive spending largesse and Newt balanced the budget. Not sure about Secretary of State unless Trump could entice Condoleeza Rice away from teaching at Stanford. She is one smart lady and would be 100% better than the idiot we have in there now.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:06 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            Some of our best presidents, from an economic results standpoint, Reagan and Clinton, had very little business sense. Whereas 3 of the more accomplished businessmen, Hoover, Carter and GW Bush, left the country in its worse economic conditions.

            Not saying they should be given credit or blame, but those are the facts.

          • June 29, 2016 at 5:19 pm
            FFA says:
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            Well Ron, Reagan acted like he had smarts….

          • June 30, 2016 at 7:53 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            The only reason Gary Johnson does not have a chance is due to people like you who will not vote for him solely because you do not think he has a chance to win. How does that make any sense?

            My point was that business acumen, or the lack there of, has not been proven to be an strong indicator for how the economy will fair during a president’s term.

            We need to be more informed voters and look for more relevant characteristics.

          • June 30, 2016 at 1:30 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron – What little I have seen on the Replacement Plan is very desirable to me personally. I havent seen the agent role in it yet, I am guessing they will not ignore small business. if its possible every agent add at least a part time employee, it would give the economy a boost. It would cut out the over seas call centers and Americans would be able to speak to someone in the US in their home town.

      • June 29, 2016 at 10:04 am
        Yogi Polar Berra says:
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        “We’ll have to open our mail to find out what rate hike is in it.”
        – adapted from Nancy Pelosi.

        • July 1, 2016 at 3:50 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, it is interesting that the double Obama voter is trying to give you advice on who to vote for. I think the credibility is lacking, don’t you?

  • June 28, 2016 at 8:32 am
    Art Tillery says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
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    WooWood…. There are two things I remember from Economics 101. They are:

    1. The government has NO money. They act only as a way of transferring money from the taxpayers to to those who benefit from government largess, skimming off about 30% in the process. And…

    2. The cost (what YOU pay) for something is always in direct proportion to the money available.

    In other words, “There are NO free lunches” (or “free” healthcare for that matter.

    Until we get the government OUT of the health care business (both as a provider, and as a payer) the costs will continue to rise.

    • June 28, 2016 at 10:35 am
      Nate says:
      Hot debate. What do you think?
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      Your economics teacher failed you

      • June 28, 2016 at 12:43 pm
        Yogi Polar Berra says:
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        How so? If you can’t explain, you’re lying.

        • June 28, 2016 at 3:13 pm
          UW says:
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          “2. The cost (what YOU pay) for something is always in direct proportion to the money available”

          This isn’t true for one. There are far more important factors, and the effect is not a direct one. There are at least 3 types of inflation – built in, demand pull, and cost push. Aggregate demand is far more important in causing inflation, and the money supply is only 1 small part in determining aggregate demand. Recent history and the liquidity trap have proven this in the last 8 years.

          From 2001 to 2016 the M2 supply of money increased 160% and prices increased only 35%; from 2006 to 2016 it was an increase of 87% with prices increasing only 20%.

          If it was directly caused by the amount of money they would track… directly instead of indirectly. There have also been periods when the money supply increased and prices remained the same or dropped.

          Of course my economics education came from actual top professors in the field and not Fox or Limbaugh so I know nothing.

          So Yogi, what is it from you, ignorant or lying?

      • June 28, 2016 at 2:07 pm
        Dave says:
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        Further proof that when it comes to economics, the left is totally clueless.

        • June 28, 2016 at 4:05 pm
          Agent says:
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          Dave, Ecclesiastes 10:2 sums it up perfectly about the left.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:10 pm
            confused says:
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            hey agent – in the USA we drive on the left side of the car but overseas, the driver is on the right. according to ecclesiastes 10:2, the US driver’s are wrong, huh?

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:41 pm
            Agent says:
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            Confused, you must have a raging case of dyslexia along with all your other faults.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:56 pm
            confused says:
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            where’s the steering wheel in your car? if your steering wheel is on the right side of your car, i will gladly admit i have dyslexia. please advise

          • June 29, 2016 at 2:13 pm
            Godot says:
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            Agent, let the Bible reference go. The intent of the passage is not political as you declare. Please just stop using this argument – you’re making yourself look silly.

    • June 28, 2016 at 3:37 pm
      Bill says:
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      So you want them out of the health care business, are you ready for Medicare and VA benefits to go away too?
      Costs in health care started to rise after we allowed health insurance companies to be for-profit business in the mid-80s. Any wonder that we have the most expensive health care and the only for-profit health insurance companies in the world?

      • June 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm
        FFA says:
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        Bill, I believe it relates to the fact that we have the best health care in the world.

        Medicare is already getting privatized. Flood Ins is getting privatized.

        The VA in Chicago needs to get shut down. So does the one in WI. Or maybe fire them all and privatize the system.

        • June 28, 2016 at 4:40 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, let’s add the VA in Bossier City, La to the list of VA’s to be shut down. They nearly killed two of my friends by mis- diagnosis and inept treatment. They are both lucky to be alive and sought second opinion at good private hospitals/doctors.

  • June 28, 2016 at 8:34 am
    Keith says:
    Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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    You can’t “fix” Obamacare or come up with a new plan unless you fix healthcare itself. I spent 3 hours in an E.R. for a serious intestinal infection. I had an interaction with a doctor 2 times for a total of 2 minutes. I also had a CT Scan and blood drawn. That’s it. The bill was $7,000. THAT is the problem.

    • June 28, 2016 at 12:01 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
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      Horrible situation, Keith. And that’s to say nothing about how if you went to a different ER down the road and received the exact same treatment, your bill could’ve been $14,000 because hospitals basically get to make up whatever charges they want with no repercussions as there are no requirements to provide pricing before you’re treated and there’s no requirement they have to negotiate the cost of treatments with patients like they do with Medicare/Medicade/Auto Insurance/WC Insurance/etc.

    • June 28, 2016 at 2:08 pm
      Dave says:
      Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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      Again, Obamacare is not about reducing the cost of delivering healthcare, it’s about shifting the cost. Making somebody else pay for it. Basically anybody middle class and above are footing the bill.

      • June 28, 2016 at 2:36 pm
        Agent says:
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        Good one Dave. The healthy subsidizing the sick who get the same rates and file the serious claims. They should have been kept in Pools, not the regular plan.

      • June 28, 2016 at 2:44 pm
        Ron says:
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        Dave,

        The shifting of costs has been going on for decades.

        The government and no law will reduce the cost of delivering health care. That falls on the private companies who have failed to do so. You cannot blame the government for not lowering health care costs unless they are the ones actually delivering said care. If you disagree, please explain.

        • June 28, 2016 at 3:04 pm
          SWFL Agent says:
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          Agree, this is not entirely the fault of ACA. Most Americans expect the health industry to solve their health care problems, regardless of cost. For example, husband has ED and he’ll want a pill for this when the real problem is he’s not interested anymore, weight increases and this will be a “disease” that requires doctor care & drugs when the real reason is over eating & no exercise, eyelids begin to droop due to the natural aging process & we expect the healthcare industry to cover the cost of cosmetic surgery, daughter decides to change gender and we expect the surgery to be covered under insurance, etc. You get the point.

        • June 28, 2016 at 3:12 pm
          FFA says:
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          Ron, You cant rock the boat like PPACA did and not expect increases. Any time the govt sticks their nose where it dont belong, there are gong to be cost increases just because they dont know what they are doing.

          I have another blowing up in my clients face. I had her Outside exchange and she went to a different agent that put her in the exchange. “its Cheaper”. Son has health issues. Late December, pre approval came down. Jan, surgery. Networks changed so now she is sitting on a $53,000 bill because of it. Going to exchange made no sense as they would not get subsidy. They had a real stop loss. Now, they have oBamas version of stop loss. Just another story of how this has screwed so many people – OBamas idea of how to control cost. read an article yesterday that the govt isnt providing the corridor payments. The Il start up is going to fail with out them payments. How many people gonna get screwed from that?
          Repeal and replace seem to be the best option at this point so long as the govt stays out of it.

          • June 28, 2016 at 3:47 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, there is a very good reason why United Healthcare is abandoning several state exchanges and why all the so called co-ops fail at an alarming rate. How about Blue Cross collecting $75 million in premiums in NC and paying out $775 million in claims. It is all a failed premise of covering all the chronically sick at the same rates as the healthy. That doesn’t bother the Progressives who think like Bernie that Healthcare should be free. Who pays for all the free stuff? Taxpayers who actually pay taxes. Enough is enough.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:18 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            How do explain the annual double digit increase pre-PPACA? My employer switched to a high deductible plan pre-PPACA.

            We need to hold private companies accountable for their part as well. If they had addressed costs and efficiencies decades ago, the PPACA would never been passed and we would all be better off.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:30 pm
            FFA says:
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            Ron, the underlying factors need to be addressed. I dont proclaim to know what all goes into the costs that drive it, but I do know Tort Reform is a good place to start. Defensive medicine is a large driving factor. My wife don get her pain meds refilled any more because the Docs in WI have been sued so many times for their patients getting hooked and the courts continue to rule against the docs even when the patient did not follow the RX as they should have. I would take a look at all the folks that dont pay their bills and examine that part of the equation. Next, lets look at the bills associated with running the facility. Maybe go Solar on the hospitals? just a few off the top of my head. I would need to see the expense ledgers to continue.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:39 pm
            Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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            The CEO of United Healthcare only makes a little $66M as an annual salary, so he has to find more ways to steal from us.

          • June 29, 2016 at 7:54 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            You are correct, but until the private sector can be convinced to reduce underlying factors, the government is powerless. My plan would involve the government paying the private companies a set amount based on people enrolled and results. If the company wants to make more money, then they need to address their expenses and show better results. How is that for an idea?

            Studies and experience, see TX, have shown that tort reform does not work to reduce health costs or the savings are so low, you and I would not notice the effect in our premiums.

        • June 28, 2016 at 7:29 pm
          Dave says:
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          The degree of shifting costs has gone up exponentially. In the past, me and my employer paid for all of my healthcare costs, nobody else helped pay for my healthcare. But through my taxes I paid for healthcare of others through Medicaid and Medicare. Now Obamacare ads yet another level of me subsidizing others, but now to a much greater degree.

  • June 28, 2016 at 9:05 am
    insurance_guy says:
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    Before anyone starts disparaging obamacare, you should realize that this research sampled pre-obamacare data.

    • June 28, 2016 at 12:45 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      Not clear what you are trying to say / imply. Spell it out.

      Until you do, I’ll continue to disparage ACA and all Congresspersons who voted for it before they found out what’s in it.

      DID YOU READ THE ENTIRE ACA bill?

      • June 28, 2016 at 1:36 pm
        Ron says:
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        Yogi Polar Berra,

        Did you read the enitre article?

        “The study period ended just before the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, took effect in January 2014,…”

        • June 28, 2016 at 2:33 pm
          Agent says:
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          Good ole Ron. He doesn’t even know when Obamacare was passed. Try March 23, 2010, a day which will live in infamy in America. The study extended from right before it was passed and then covered all the bad news since then.

          If you like your plan, you can keep it. If you like your doctor, you can keep him. The average family “will save on average of $2,500 per year on premiums. President Barack H. Obama

          • June 28, 2016 at 2:49 pm
            Ron says:
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            Poor OLD Agent. He doesn’t even know that this law did not go into effect the day it was signed. Parts of it went into effect incrementally (is that too big of a word for you?).

            If you had reading comprehension skills, and read the entire article, you would know that I quoted that line from the article.

            Anything else, troll?

          • June 28, 2016 at 3:10 pm
            Agent says:
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            Poor Old Ron, the defender of the worst legislation every passed in Congress. I am sure he was impressed that Nancy Pelosi said she had to pass it to see what was in it. How about that Louisiana Purchase with Landrieu? How about that Cornhusker kickback with Nelson? How about those Blue Dogs that were threatened, coerced into voting for it? How about that MIT professor who admitted to lying about it? Of course, our fearless leader who poor old Ron voted for twice was the biggest liar of all. I think the chickens have come home to roost now and it amazes me that some dufus troll still tries to defend it or word parse hoping someone will believe him.

          • June 28, 2016 at 3:19 pm
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            This is exactly what I have been talking about. Again you are stating flat out lies in order to make your narrative about me work. If you cannot have an honest discussion, GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            If you can quote me directly defending the PPACA once, I will leave IJ forever. Hint: correcting lies about the law is not directly defending it, just correcting lies.

            Even your hero, Bob, has acknowledged that I am and have been against the PPACA since it was signed.

          • June 28, 2016 at 3:21 pm
            confused says:
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            From an Agent post: per Wikipedia, a troll is a person who sows discord on the internet by starting arguments or upsetting people by posting off topic messages with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on topic discussions.

            The discussion was the ACA was passed on March 23, 2010 but wasn’t implemented until Jan 2014, after the time period of this study.

            Agent – do you dispute these dates?

            All your side questions are the textbook definition of trolling, as is your “Ron defends the ACA” when he has posted, oh I don’t know, maybe 30 times just in 2016 that he doesn’t not like it and provided his suggestions on how to replace it.

        • June 28, 2016 at 11:20 pm
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          Yes.

          You missed the point about insurance-guy’s point being obfuscated.

          I see 6.5% increases BEFORE ACA.

          I don’t have all the individual years’ data since ACA started, BUT they seem to ALL be greater than 6.5%.

          The sampling technique is biased because it censors the ACA years inflation stats.

          • June 29, 2016 at 6:21 pm
            UW says:
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            The studies show premiums have increased by less than forecasted without the ACA, but I’ve never seen you comment on data you disagree with without claiming it is manipulated and wrong,which is rich since you have shown you don’t understand statistics.

          • June 30, 2016 at 9:31 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            The data was not WRONG; it was MISSING (‘censored’), implying the analysis is incomplete, thus biased.

            Whether the analysis is biased favorably or unfavorably toward one side is unknown because the data was ‘censored’ to exclude post-ACA results.

            I criticized the analytic technique of years of data to study, more so than the included data or data source.

            No valid conclusion may be drawn on ACA if the analyses did not use the ACA period data.

    • June 28, 2016 at 2:39 pm
      FFA says:
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      Mine got worse. Much Worse. There was a different definition of Stop Loss before OBama Care. It meant exactly what it said. STOP LOSS. PPACA invented the never ending Co Pay. Also changed the definition of Affordable and brought new oBama Math to the table.

      • June 28, 2016 at 3:41 pm
        Agent says:
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        So the nasty troll is still at it. You fit the definition perfectly Confused. Everybody that has been involved with Health Insurance since this disaster was passed know what the effects have been except you. Ron defended it for some time and then when he didn’t like it anymore, he switched to promoting Single Payer, the full monty of healthcare disasters. That would be like the whole country switching to VA care and we know how good they are at treating the vets, don’t we?

        • June 28, 2016 at 4:12 pm
          Ron says:
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          Agent,

          You said, “Ron defended it for some time..”

          PROVE IT!!!!!!!!! Just one quote from me.

          If you can’t, then admit you are lying.

          There are no other options.

          My plan would not switch the whole country to VA care, it would eliminate VA care.

          More lies about me to fit your narrative. Either that or poor reading comprehension. I’ll let you decide which.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:34 pm
            Agent says:
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            Ron, remember the old days of Libby, Celtica, Captain Planet and a few others promoting this disaster along with others? I don’t remember one post you ever made saying it was a terrible idea and should not have been passed and shame on them. Now, you have awakened from your slumber to promote an even more liberal idea of Single Payer. The most I ever heard from you was the very milquetoast answer that you disagreed with “some” of the policies of Obama which you didn’t elaborate on. It still did not prevent you from voting for him yet again, did it? That is inexcusable, by the way.

          • June 29, 2016 at 8:02 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Your failure to remember explains a lot. Especially your failure to recall anything from your Economics courses you supposedly took in college.

            Again, prove I was for the law. I really do not give a rat’s behind what other people are/were for or against.

            Either quote me supporting the law or admit that you are lying.

            How dare you state another citizens vote(s) are inexcusable? Have I ever questioned or demeaned your voting record?

            I am starting to question your patriotism and knowledge upon which this great country was built.

        • June 28, 2016 at 4:17 pm
          confused says:
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          agent, why are you starting arguments or upsetting people by posting off topic messages with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on topic discussions?

          The discussion was the ACA was passed on March 23, 2010 but wasn’t implemented until Jan 2014, after the time period of this study.

          Agent – do you dispute these dates?

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:26 pm
            Agent says:
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            Well young troll, I dispute all of your assertions on time frame and the impact of it, the big fight in Congress over it, the bribes, corruption of it, the lying politicians promoting it. This has been a nightmare from day one and everyone but you and a few buddy trolls know it. It is impossible for a Congress to pass something this bad and not expect bad things to result from it. Blatant Partisan passage of a law will never have anything good to show for it and that is all we have seen for 7+ years. Wake up and smell the coffee.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:34 pm
            confused says:
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            how many times do i have to post “i think obamacare has been a super duper failure” until you remember? i’ve told you this nearly every week for the past 2 months and you keep lying and saying that I like it and i think it’s great.

            let me see if you can remember immediately after reading it and we’ll take it one day at a time after that.

            agent – do i think obamacare has been a success or do i think it’s been a super duper failure? what do i believe?

          • June 30, 2016 at 1:47 pm
            Godot says:
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            The only correct answer to your first paragraph, Confused, is “That’s who Agent is”.

  • June 28, 2016 at 2:00 pm
    Jack Kanauph says:
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    I was wondering who paid for this report and why did it take 3 years to compile and release the data?

    • June 28, 2016 at 2:34 pm
      Agent says:
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      Jack, I think it is safe to say that the liberal factions did not pay for the report since there are no positives to it. Perhaps it was slow walked because of all the bad news in it.

      • June 28, 2016 at 2:41 pm
        FFA says:
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        Or just waiting for the election cycle to be in full swing????

        • June 28, 2016 at 3:13 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, the American people need to hold the politicians who did this accountable. Some were dismissed on the first mid term after passage, more on the next mid term and more in the latest General election. What few are remaining appear to be in safe districts or in a very liberal state.

          • June 28, 2016 at 3:58 pm
            FFA says:
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            These folks that did the sit in over gun control, they have been sitting around for years not doing anything. All of a sudden, its news.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:10 pm
            Agent says:
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            FFA, here is a funny thing at the Democratic sit in on gun control. They ordered Chik Fil A to be brought in. Same folks who try to bring grief upon Chik Fil A at every opportunity.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:15 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            And, what exactly have the Republicans been doing for the past year and a half? They promised a new Congress if they gained control. More failed campaign promises that we bought. Yes, I said we.

          • June 28, 2016 at 4:32 pm
            FFA says:
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            Yes Ron. Them too. I am voting against anyone more then two terms. Yes, if I were in IL, that would be Mark Kirk.

          • June 28, 2016 at 7:24 pm
            Dave says:
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            Actuallty FFA, Kirk is just a one term Senator. He was in the House a few years before that.

          • June 28, 2016 at 11:24 pm
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            American citizens who pay for Health Insurance for themselves, and subsidize others, have been ‘Grubered’.

          • June 29, 2016 at 8:04 am
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            Now you’re talking. If Congress won’t institute term limits, then it’s up to We the People!

          • June 29, 2016 at 8:07 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            I did not realize that Gruber is also responsible for Medicare, Medicaid, and VA care.

            Thank you for the education.

          • June 29, 2016 at 10:10 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            @Ron; Gruber didn’t have to take part in Medicare, Medicaid, and VA programs to use his name as a derogatory description as to what has happened to the American public under those failed social insurance programs and gummint bureaucracy.

            e.g. ‘Cantored’ now refers to dumping a Republican who behaves like a RINO or establishment, rubber-stamper political wimp.

          • June 29, 2016 at 11:22 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            Nice job diverting.

            So, are you for or against subsidizing the health care of others? If you are against it, fine. Just provide your free-market solution where everyone has access to care and pays the actuarial appropriate premium for their risk.

          • June 29, 2016 at 5:27 pm
            FFA says:
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            Dave, I dont like the man. I dont care how long he has been there. I dont care where he came from. I just dont like him. Cant seem to put my finger on the reasons why. I just dont trust him.

          • June 30, 2016 at 9:36 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            @Ron; the plan details being released on the Republican Plan will fall in line with my idea of an ideal replacement.

            After that plan is published, we can discuss it here ad nauseum.

          • June 30, 2016 at 9:40 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            @Ron; I am AGAINST subsidizing a large portion of the healthcare insurance market.

            The market must pool highly priced risks and subsidize them after shrinking the size of that pool to a small %. But first, COSTS of EVERY risk must be addressed.

            After that, the subsidies surcharged against the standard risk market will be a much lower portion of their now more affordable premiums.

          • June 30, 2016 at 10:51 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            Why can’t you lay out your ideal plan now? Or are you just another sheep of the right?

            So, you are against Medicare, Medicaid, VA care and high-risk pools, all are subsidized health care that covers a large portion of the health care market, but have not provided a private market solution to provide them with an affordable health care plan.

    • June 29, 2016 at 4:52 pm
      Agent says:
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      Confused, here is a chance to show your true colors and make it clear for all on this blog. You say you think the Progressive Obamacare partisan legislation was a super duper failure. All right smart man, are you in the Ron camp of Single Payer or the Bernie camp of free healthcare for everyone? Please try to focus and remember that healthcare is not free, someone has to pay. Do you think you can tax the rich enough to make this come out? If so, at what rate?

      • June 30, 2016 at 12:45 pm
        confused says:
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        short answer – neither! but man, if there ever was a textbook case for asking a loaded question, this is it.

        you’re trying to pigeon-hole me into one of only two fixes for the obamacare mess and not letting me consider anything else.

        why can’t I give you my own ideas on how to fix obamacare? how come you’re only letting me chose from two?

        as an aside – do you travel roundabouts clockwise – to the right – or do you travel them counter-clockwise – to the left?

        • July 1, 2016 at 4:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          Confused, since you don’t like the choices presented to you, please give us your ideas on fixing Healthcare once and for all. If you are good, we can all chip in and send you to Washington DC and let you testify before Congress. Maybe they will listen to common sense ideas. Why do I think you won’t have any answers that make sense?

        • July 5, 2016 at 10:26 am
          Agent says:
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          Well, it has been a week now and no reply to my question. Why am I not surprised?

  • June 28, 2016 at 5:43 pm
    Justice says:
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    Listening to you all it just amazes me that you don’t see the simple truth: It’s too easy to pick on the poor who get the undeserved advantage of subsidized health care benefits. YOu should be focussing on the poor after age 65. At 65 everyone gets subsidized health care benefits, either Medicare or Medicaid. Why not say every American has to save for retiree health care just like we have to save for retirement? The solution is to eliminate those costly entitlement programs, right? That will save YOU people so much money in taxes! Eliminate all those subsidized, socialized medical programs and just have people pay cash. Not everyone can afford be treated. Those people will die sooner. That will in turn help out the social security system– with less beneficiaries the fund will last longer. More death will help the unemployment situation too, because there will be less people alive to work. Heck, when folks start to die from lack of care, you can still blame the Democrats, because it’s got to be their fault.

    But there will be compassion for those who can’t afford care, of course. This is America. Those people can throw themselves on the mercy of the tax-free church. I understand they have a bundle and a mission to save lives. No? Just souls? oh, well then.

    • June 28, 2016 at 11:25 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      No. The solution to seniors health care will be clear in a matter of months. Watch and wait.

    • June 29, 2016 at 9:24 am
      Agent says:
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      Justice, I hope you are being very sarcastic or someone would think you are a total idiot.

      • June 29, 2016 at 9:42 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        Neither. This is exactly what you and your ilk sound like to rational people.

        Justice is essentially saying, privatize all health care and let charities take care of the poor. Isn’t that for what you advocate?

        • June 29, 2016 at 10:13 am
          Yogi Polar Berra says:
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          Charities are not the solution to high risks. Consider teen drivers and auto insurance. Pools were created to address the problem, and restricted driving hours, etc. redefined their coverage terms to improve affordability rather than directly subsidize them by surcharging good drivers.

          You’re truly a narrow minded liberal, bent on socializing insurance coverage, rather than addressing new problems with proven solutions.

          • June 29, 2016 at 11:54 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            Either you are Agent with a different moniker or he taught you reading comprehension.

            When did I say charities are the solution?

            Everyone subsidizes everyone else in insurance, regardless of the line. That is how it works. If had major surgery that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, should we expect you to pay all of that back to the other policyholders with your company? Of course not.

            I am the only one who has offered something new. Please provide your proven solutions. What did the Republicans do to increase competition from 2003-07?

          • June 29, 2016 at 12:49 pm
            confused says:
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            i believe TPB is agent’s “alternate” personality

          • June 30, 2016 at 9:42 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            @Ron; you are either ignorant or arrogant if you think that NOT more than one person on these comment boards holds conservative opinions.

          • June 30, 2016 at 9:55 am
            confused says:
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            Either you are Agent with a different moniker or he taught you reading comprehension.

            When did ron say he thought you were agent because of your conservative opinions?

            he said he thinks you’re agent because of your lack of reading comprehension skills.

          • June 30, 2016 at 10:31 am
            Ron says:
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            Thank you Confused.

            Yogi Polar Berra,

            I am fully aware that there are several people who claim to be, and a very few that actually are, Conservatives on this blog.

        • June 29, 2016 at 4:45 pm
          Agent says:
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          So what the Progressives are saying is to implement the death panels for seniors so they will die off earlier and save the Social Security system.

          • June 30, 2016 at 8:00 am
            Ron says:
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            Agent,

            Are you able to quote anyone saying these things directly?

            If you are referring to Justice’s post, do you have proof that he/she is a Progressive? Maybe he/she was just parodying his/her interpretation of the Conservative’s position on health care. You know, privatize everything and everyone pay their own way. If you can’t, don’t coming knocking on the government’s door.

          • June 30, 2016 at 9:45 am
            Yogi Polar Berra says:
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            @Ron; no one would expect liberals to say those things directly. Everything they do that adversely impacts citizens are couched in veiled terminology, or are lies, or such discussions are censored or avoided; e.g. “We have to pass it (ACA) to find out what’s in it.” – Nancy Pelosi

          • June 30, 2016 at 10:43 am
            Ron says:
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            Yogi Polar Berra,

            Do Conservatives have anything more than false rhetoric and statements taken out of context to make their point? Do you even realize that Representative Pelosi was referencing the process which a bill goes through prior to the final version that would be voted on in the House? They needed to vote and, if passed, send their version of the bill to the Senate so they may vote or, very likely, make amendments. Until then, they would not know what is in the final bill.

            Or that “You did not build that” had absolutely nothing to do with the actual businesses built by their owners? He was referencing the infrastructure (roads, utilities, internet, etc) that was built by the government so they could have their businesses.

            You guys are sheep to the right wing misinformation machine. Please, do your own thinking and research.

    • June 29, 2016 at 5:30 pm
      FFA says:
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      Justice, I pay my taxes into the system my entire working life and you consider me getting back what I put in a subsidy?

      • June 30, 2016 at 8:05 am
        Ron says:
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        FFA,

        Yes you have. Question, What if, when you turn 65, you experience significant health issues that end up costing nearly $1 million in care. Have you paid $1 million in Medicare taxes throughout your life? If not, you are being subsidized.

        Anyone who receives more in benefits than they paid in, whether it is Medicare, Medicaid, SS, health insurance, car insurance, homeowners insurance, commercial insurance, etc. is being or has been subsidized by others.

        • June 30, 2016 at 1:35 pm
          FFA says:
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          Ron. I have no idea how much I pay in taxes through my life time.

          • June 30, 2016 at 2:18 pm
            Ron says:
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            FFA,

            That does not matter in the hypothetical I laid out. However, I HIGHLY doubt anyone has paid $1 million in Medicare taxes alone.

            Back to my question, do you agree that, in the scenario I presented, you would be subsidized? If you disagree, please explain.

          • July 1, 2016 at 12:58 pm
            FFA says:
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            If they pay put more then I paid in, then yes, I would be subsidized. I would bet they dont pay out more on every individual then they put in. Lets not forget we do pay premiums on Medicare.

      • June 30, 2016 at 9:48 am
        Yogi Polar Berra says:
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        Wrong! Most insureds do not collect claim reimbursements equal to their pure premiums. That’s the difference between ‘insurance’ and a ‘sinking fund’ to fund future expenses. Fail!

        • June 30, 2016 at 10:27 am
          Ron says:
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          Yogi Polar Berra,

          Why do you constantly interpret my posts incorrectly? When did I saying anything about most insureds collecting claim reimbursements equal to their pure premiums?

          All I said was that if one person collects more in benefits than they paid in, then they are being subsidized by the others who paid in. Do you disagree?

          • June 30, 2016 at 11:34 am
            confused says:
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            because he is agent posting under a pseudonym

  • June 28, 2016 at 5:56 pm
    Agent says:
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    FFA, with the record of all Progressives in both parties over the past 7 1/2 years, they all should be dismissed. Establishment people in both parties are either liberal or milquetoasts afraid to rock the boat. We need a completely fresh start and people with courage that are committed to solving problems, not making them worse by throwing more money at it and hoping for a different result. Europe is in big trouble because of what they have been doing and Obama would like nothing better than an American version of Europe. Good for Britain for waking up. In the end, they will be better for it.

    • June 29, 2016 at 11:13 am
      confused says:
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      agent – did you get a chance to look at your car this morning to see if your steering wheel is on the left or right side of the vehicle? i want to make sure i’m not dyslexic like you claimed when I said the driver is on the left in the US and is on the right in most places overseas.

      • June 29, 2016 at 6:03 pm
        Agent says:
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        Hey dufus, I drive on the “right” side of the road. In Britain, they drive on the left. Got it yet?

        • June 30, 2016 at 9:59 am
          confused says:
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          dufus. i didn’t say where the car is located on the road. i said where the driver sits in the car! but fine – maybe i wasn’t clear before. let me try again.

          hey agent – in the USA the driver sits on the left side of the car but overseas, the driver sits is on the right.

          according to ecclesiastes 10:2, the US drivers are sitting on the wrong side of the car, huh?

          • June 30, 2016 at 10:47 am
            Agent says:
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            Dufus, if you will focus and turn right at intersections instead of left, you will be better off for it.

          • June 30, 2016 at 11:33 am
            confused says:
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            dufus – what does an intersection have to do with you telling me where the steering wheel is located in your car and if you think ecclesiastes 10:2 applies to that too?

            but hey, what about roundabouts? do you travel the roundabout clockwise – to the right or do you travel it counter-clockwise – to the left?

  • June 28, 2016 at 6:39 pm
    Billy Rubin says:
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    Healthcare is just fine as modern medicine always is. The problem is how to pay for it and how much. Currently there is no universal standard price for any given procedure, medicine or treatment. The sky is the limit in pricing in that they will squeeze every dollar out of you as possible. This has to stop by declaring a pricing standard or by competition in pricing.

    • June 28, 2016 at 11:28 pm
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      Price standards do not work. Increased competition will result in ingenuity to gain a market advantage through lowered costs. Subsidizing costs only perpetuates their excesses.

      • June 30, 2016 at 12:47 pm
        SWFL Agent says:
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        I don’t know if increased competition can solve it Yogi. But it probably couldn’t hurt either. I think the biggest problem with healthcare is that we want to apply free market principles/solutions to control costs, administer care, reward innovation with high profits, etc, yet we want everyone to have access to the same standards & procedures regardless of their ability to pay, health conditions, age, etc.

      • July 7, 2016 at 11:55 am
        Agent says:
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        Yogi, can we clearly state now that Progressive solutions to Healthcare has been a total disaster and the idiots promoting Single Payer is a bigger disaster waiting to happen?

  • June 29, 2016 at 5:31 pm
    FFA says:
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    Has anyone noticed an increase in Pop Ups on this site? Adds?

    • June 30, 2016 at 9:50 am
      Yogi Polar Berra says:
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      Get a pop-up blocker. Free or part of security suites.

      To answer your question: no, most likely due to my highly effective pop-up blocker.

      • June 30, 2016 at 1:38 pm
        FFA says:
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        I am using Norton Blocker. It is always on unless I get a call from someone I am expecting something from that it may block.

        • July 1, 2016 at 2:54 pm
          Agent says:
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          FFA, in keeping with the theme of Healthcare and to provide some needed humor on this site prior to July 4th, I offer the following:

          Title – Post Turtle

          While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old Texas rancher, whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually, the topic got around to Obamacare and Obama.

          The old rancher said, Well, ya know, Obama is a “post turtle”. Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was. The old rancher said , when you are driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that’s a post turtle.

          The old rancher saw the puzzled look on the doctor’s face, so he continued to explain. You know he didn’t get up there by himself, he doesn’t belong up there, he doesn’t know what to do while he is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb arse put him up there in the first place.

          Have a great 4th FFA.



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