Senate Republicans Unveil Secret Draft of Their Health Insurance Plan

By and | June 22, 2017

  • June 22, 2017 at 11:57 am
    Counterpoint says:
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    The most vicious attack on this article is on Mr. McConnell by choosing such a close up for the top image. Zooming in on someone that hard should be a crime.

    • June 22, 2017 at 2:06 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      That’s McConnell? I thought that was a picture of a turtle.

    • June 22, 2017 at 2:28 pm
      Agent says:
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      Apparently, the geeks at IJ put this out so fast, they forgot to proofread. Anyone ever heard of a Heath Insurance Plan?

      • June 22, 2017 at 2:43 pm
        confused says:
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        what a devistating rebuttal to the topic, the content and its author! (end sarcasm) PS – this is a Bloomberg article, not an IJ written article, so you’re blaming the wrong people here.

        • June 22, 2017 at 4:19 pm
          Agent says:
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          Still trolling me dude? By the way, if IJ puts it out, they are responsible to us the readers. Who really cares who wrote it? You really need to wake up and smell the real coffee. Bob’s efforts were in total vain. That is why I cut you no slack.

          • June 22, 2017 at 6:00 pm
            UW says:
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            What part do you have a problem with? I see a lot of bitching and insults, but no actual points.

          • June 26, 2017 at 4:07 pm
            VladiBear The Georgian says:
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            Yes, that’s what I see in most of your posts! Glad you’re being honest about it. Resolving a problem first requires that you admit you have a problem. Behave well going forward and your posting privileges won’t be suspended, again.

          • June 27, 2017 at 12:48 pm
            UW says:
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            Loser, no life, no brains, troll. Go away.

    • June 22, 2017 at 5:19 pm
      Bill Price says:
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      Feed the Hog??
      If some way to reduce costs and/or raise premiums isn’t included this will ALSO break America.
      Most folks agree that people that try to live healthy should be able to get Preexcon Coverage.
      But, why not Increase premiums on Intentionally Unhealthy people,,,for Example,,, Why pay preexcon for folks that:
      – Smoke 4 Pcks Cigs /D
      – 200# over weight
      – Snort Durgs, or
      – swigg a bottle of Booze every day.
      Increase Premiums and maybe they’ll try to live healthy, which will reduce costs.
      Bill Price

      • June 22, 2017 at 5:34 pm
        Agent says:
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        Bill, you make too much sense for the freebie Liberals. What are you trying to do, UNDERWRITE Healthcare premiums? The reason why Oblamacare failed mightily was the unhealthy’s mountain of claims and not enough healthy to make it work. Pools would be the answer to the unhealthy leading unhealthy lives.

        • June 22, 2017 at 6:02 pm
          Bill Price says:
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          Agent,
          Why pool cover so the Intentionally Unhealthy can keep living Intentionally Unhealthy lives?
          Bill Price

          • June 28, 2017 at 4:31 pm
            WRONG says:
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            WRONG

      • June 23, 2017 at 12:47 am
        Doug Fisher says:
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        Great idea! I love the idea that you will be hardcore targeting the ignorant masses in poverty-stricken red states.

        I like your style: let the ignorant people who lead unhealthy lives die, leaving college-educated liberals to take back the balance of power in Southern States.

        Oh wait, you didn’t mean that?

        Well:

        9 out of top 10 states for obesity rates in country are hardcore Republican: (MS, WV, AL, LA, SC,TN, KY, AR, OK, and MI)

        8 out of top 10 states for smoking rates: (KY, WV, MS, OK, OH, MO, IN, LA, TN, and MI)

        Obesity and Tobacco rates combine for by far the most amount of deaths nationwide. “Snorting drugs” rarely kills people, although opioids are becoming a huge problem, and alcoholism is extremely damaging to societal and personal health, but it doesn’t kill or require the type of healthcare coverage and hospital visits at nearly the same rate that obesity and tobacco use does. (Either way, drinking rates are highest primarily in the conservative Rocky Mountain areas, but are not centralized to that area)

        You can’t sin tax poor people into bettering themselves.

        For example, states continually raise taxes on tobacco year after year. The result? Fewer and fewer middle and upper class people are smoking. Poor people? Still lighting it up like a chimney in winter. Removing the ability for these poor people to have access to extremely cheap medicines to help them control and care for the bad decisions and bad genes that they have will end up saving the country billions of dollars.

        Would you rather have FatA$$ McGee in Birmingham, AL go to a doctor, receive a $4 bottle of a statin (lowers cholesterol) and a box of nicotine patches, or have them visit the emergency room with no healthcare coverage, now requiring major heart surgery due to restricted access to preventative medicines and health screenings?

        If you choose the former, congratulations, you have made a logical decision.

        The latter? You strain ERs with preventable visits, hospital systems foot the bill to pay Doctors, specialists, contractors, etc. A family is now without a bread-winner, who can no longer earn an income to pay taxes, redistribute their earnings into the local economy, and invest for the future and for their family. Congratulations, your decision costs everybody money and takes more out of the local economy.

        I speak from personal experience. Not the fat thing, but bad heart. As a conservative, God-fearing family, we grew up healthy and happy. Zero drug or alcohol use by my parents whatsoever. My dad exercised every day, worked two jobs to make ends meet (big family), and at the end of the day, genetics caught up with him and he had a heart attack at age 47. He was out of work recovering for 3 months and lost his job because of it, losing his healthcare in the process. Mounting bills and medical debt later, the family had to declare bankruptcy. We lost our modest home, our modest cars, and modest lifestyle. We were forced to move into a small apartment for several years while they got back on their feet. To make ends meet, all of us children contributed to the family through paper routes and other jobs, according to each child’s age. My dad continued to work two jobs, my mom worked, etc.

        Is this the American Dream? To work yourself silly until you die? To be responsible, healthy, and educated, and still end up on the curb after a major health event? Does that make any sense to anyone?

        How do we let millions of families go bankrupt trying to pay for healthcare expenses? Please tell me how the F*** Hardworking Americans in the A$$ Act makes sense to anyone?

        Conservatives’ stance on healthcare isn’t just heartless, it is senseless, too.

        • June 23, 2017 at 8:42 am
          Bill says:
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          Doug,
          That is one of the best comments I’ve read on IJ comment boards ever! You make an excellent point as to why the costs of healthcare (and NOT just the cost of health insurance) must be addressed.
          Trump’s comment about the Republican’s healthcare plan being mean still fits.

        • June 23, 2017 at 9:11 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          What excellent points, Doug. The #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US is a health event. And, if this is truly the greatest country on the planet, that shouldn’t be the case. The real Jesus Christ wouldn’t accept it. He didn’t advocate for “unhealthy living means your outta luck.” But, not to worry, these Supply Side Jesus Christ-ians will tell us what we do and don’t deserve. Despicable!

        • June 23, 2017 at 10:48 am
          Bill Price says:
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          Doug Fisher and Captain Planet,
          I don’t think you understood my comments.
          A) Most folks agree (and I do) that people that lead healthy lives should have access to reasonably priced Insurance covering Preeexcon.
          BUT
          B) People that live Intentionally Unhealthy lives should either pay more ( which adds cash to the System), or maybe change Unhealthy life style ( which reduces costs.)
          A rational program would give people living Unhealthy lives, time to and assistance to get healthy, BUT living an Intentionally Unhealthy life is a personal decision.
          ( I have Lost weight, Quit Smoking, reduced (:) ) drinking, , never used drugs ( so I don’t have first hand knowledge of that.)
          In any event, the objective is to Reduce Costs or Increase Revenue, or, with rapidly rising costs of modern medical technology, Health Care will break the Economy, or be forced to require rationing.
          For me, I believe in personal responsibility, and believe people should have the choice of Healthier Life style or higher costs,,,,,,,, rather than bureaucratic rationing.
          TO BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR,, Doug, Sorry to hear of your dad’s heart problems, but this concept in no way is intended to restrict access for him and folks like him, to health care, providing he was trying to live a healthy life.
          I have niece with juvenile diabetes. She lives as healthy a life as absolutely possible. I absolutely believe she should have access to Reasonably Priced Health Insurance with Preexisting condition coverage. ( Red State, Christian, Hard working, 4 kids, a kind and gracious young lady.) I also know, folks, way overweight, heavy drinking and smoking a couple of packs a day. Tell me why they should have the same cost Health Insurance as she does?
          The Premise is to encourage people to live healthy lives or pay more,,,, if they choose not to. Why shouldn’t we strongly encourage inducements to live healthy? I see that as opposite to any characterization of being uncaring.
          Bill Price
          PS: The Bill following is not me.

          • June 23, 2017 at 11:19 am
            Ron says:
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            Bill Price,

            As I have stated previously, your approach has merit and is sound from a traditional, insurance underwriting standpoint. However, there is no logistically feasible way to determine when a person’s condition and/or treatment needs are based solely on unhealthy choices. Nearly all of us make unhealthy choices from time-to-time.

            I also proved to you that tobacco surcharges are already allowed under the PPACA. Whether or not they are sufficient is a separate debate.

            There are no stupidity, laziness, or morality exclusions in insurance.

          • June 23, 2017 at 12:13 pm
            Doug Fisher says:
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            I agree with the theory that no-one should subsidize the healthcare for the deliberately unhealthy, but I cannot see a way to legislate and underwrite that into ways that won’t be inherently discriminatory.

            For example: even just something as small as gut flora makes the biggest difference in obesity vs “healthy weight” A person who eats in moderation and exercises can still be obese, and someone who eats straight garbage could be thin as a rail (check out the guy who eats Big Macs every day, for example).

            As with anything, positive motivation should always be the key. Don’t penalize the smokers, drinkers, and so on, but incentivize them for going to an AA program, using a patch or chewing gum, joining a 12-step program or a gym and so-on.

            In the long run, helping people to take better care of themselves will work better than penalizing those who cannot, and it avoids opportunities for discrimination, etc.

          • June 23, 2017 at 12:35 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Bill Price,
            What you iterated is certainly rational. I concur with your reasoning. We need to do a better job of prevention in the US rather than treatment after the fact. Cheers and have a good weekend!

          • June 26, 2017 at 4:09 pm
            VladiBear The Georgian says:
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            @Bill Price; No, they understand your points. They just want to remain resistant and ignorant of the facts about the Death Spiral and the sabotage imposed by the drafters of ACA.

        • June 23, 2017 at 1:51 pm
          Insnerd8 says:
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          I wholeheartedly agree … thanks for taking the time to post this.

      • June 23, 2017 at 9:04 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Because the intentionally unhealthy people you describe above are the ones making policy, gambling on Wall Street, in our government, heading hospitals, and topping the health insurance carrier world. But, I’m guessing some people have trailer parks and ghettos in their mind when they think of those characteristics.

        • June 23, 2017 at 11:39 am
          Bill Price says:
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          Capt’n,
          To paraphrase,
          Why should the guy that way over eats, is 150# overweight, smokes 2 packs a day, and gets drunk every night, pay the same as a person with juvenile diabetes, or a heart problem that diligently trys to live a Healthy Life, pay the same premium for the same Health Care?
          Bill Price

          • June 23, 2017 at 11:53 am
            Ron says:
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            My interpretation of what Captain Planet wrote is that he is outlining why you will not see what you are proposing. It says nothing about whether or not he agrees with you.

          • June 23, 2017 at 12:13 pm
            Bill Price says:
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            Ron, Capt’n, Doug,
            I have answered you before. Here goes again.
            Give people some time and help to gain a healthy life style, or Then:
            – Weigh on scales to see if Overweight.
            – Blood test for Nicotine to see if Smoking.
            – Blood test for Drugs.
            – Blood or Breath Test for Alcohol.
            If problems show up ,, Increase Rates.
            ( I Lost weight, Quit Smoking, Reduced elixirs(!) ( never did drugs.) These are long term Life Choices, not the “time to time’ foibles of life.
            Ron I expect you could devise protocols to determine healthy living.
            Again, IMO we’ll either find an agreeable way to reduce costs, or raise revenue, or we’ll have rationing.
            Can’t we agree that people should take personal responsibility for their Life styles?
            I appreciate all the comments leading to clarifying the concept, and welcome germane responses.
            Thanks all.
            Bill Price

          • June 23, 2017 at 12:35 pm
            Ron says:
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            Bill Price,

            Your approach, while sound on the surface, is too simplistic and does not take into account the many factors that lead many people to live unhealthy lives.

            While it is great that you were able to make positive lifestyle changes, it is not always that easy for everyone.

            Punishing people who are already in a tough place economically, environmentally and emotionally will not likely lead to them improving their lives. It will more likely lead to declining coverage, avoiding proactive care, then going to the emergency room when something catastrophic happens. Then, what when they cannot pay their bills? The health care providers pass those costs onto us.

          • June 26, 2017 at 4:12 pm
            VladiBear The Georgian says:
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            @Ron; I’ve mentioned “HEALTH CARE SPPECIFICCS” several times in the past, but you haven’t paid attention, and CONTINUE to argue that the health of individuals should not be held against them in the insurance process. Sorry, elections have consequences, and those who incur the greatest health care costs will be charged accordingly, albeit still not enough to carry their (excessive) weight.

    • June 22, 2017 at 7:58 pm
      VladiBear The Georgian says:
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      That’s an astute and substantive comment. Sorta like the Libitteral news media commenting on clothes worn by the Trump family, or the narrowing margin of Republican VICTORIES in special runoff elections, or… well, you get the point by now, I hope.

  • June 22, 2017 at 2:15 pm
    Retired UW says:
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    Several GOP Senators have already said it ain’t gonna happen.

    • June 22, 2017 at 2:46 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
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      Rand Paul, Ron Johnson, Ted Cruz & Mike Lee issued a joint statement stating that, in case people were wondering which ones have come out and said they’re not voting for it in its current version.

      Someone correct me if I’m wrong – if the bill gets revised before the vote, doesn’t the CBO have to re-review the plan in order to determine if it meets the threshold to get it approved by a simple majority?

      • June 22, 2017 at 5:35 pm
        Agent says:
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        Ever hear of negotiations Rosenblatt? These Senators will be carving their own nitch to the final form. Relax, and take a chill pill.

        • June 22, 2017 at 6:04 pm
          UW says:
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          Funny, less than a week ago you and Yogtard were calling this bribery. Oh wait, you cried for 7 years about Obamacare supposedly being made in secret (wrong! Sad!) but don’t care this one was literally kept secret from the Republicans, including the people responsible for actually writing the final version of the bill. You don’t care about health care, people, or the country, you just want lower tax rates.

        • June 22, 2017 at 7:52 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          This version does not meet the widely accepted criteria “HEALTH CARE SPPECIFICCS”. DOA.

        • June 22, 2017 at 7:56 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          Nope. Bribery would be the authors of the unacceptable Senate Bill offering bribes to the 4 holdouts. None have been offered yet, amiright?

        • June 23, 2017 at 9:46 am
          Rosenblatt says:
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          Come on Agent. Please pay a little better attention to what I post before you reply. I wrote

          “If the bill gets revised before the vote, doesn’t the CBO have to re-review the plan in order to determine if it meets the threshold to get it approved by a simple majority?”

          See how I said “If the bill gets revised…”?

          That means I know they can negotiate the bill.

      • June 22, 2017 at 8:00 pm
        VladiBear The Georgian says:
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        I’m glad the most sensible quartet of Republican Senators are holding out to move the Bill closer to the essential criteria “HEALTH CARE SPPECICIFCCS”. It’s only a matter of time and persuasive discussions by one or more of the four.

  • June 22, 2017 at 3:58 pm
    Ron says:
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    While I do not want to see anyone suffer from this poor excuse of health care reform, this may be the catalyst to finally get enough people behind single-payer to get it through.

    Once people realize that neither the PPACA nor this law will solve our health care/insurance issues, they may finally be ready to give an actually new approach a try.

    • June 22, 2017 at 4:23 pm
      Agent says:
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      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      • June 22, 2017 at 5:01 pm
        Rosenblatt says:
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        Agent – I completely agree this bill should not be rushed just to “get it done”. It’s extremely important to get something as complex as this right the first time, which the ACA obviously did not.

        However, Republicans have claimed for over 6 YEARS they have had a replacement plan ready. I don’t think saying “they’ve only had 5 months” is an accurate timeframe to reference just how much time they have had to draft this bill.

        That said, I don’t think ONE WEEK is enough time for all those voting on it to read and comprehend the full bill.

        The people who are actually voting on the bill should not be rushed in determining if it’s acceptable to them either, agreed?

        • June 22, 2017 at 5:09 pm
          Agent says:
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          Rosenblatt, don’t go down that word parsing road again. I have warned you before. People that weren’t in charge did some political posturing. We are now counting the ones in power to do something and we will hold them accountable. Have Progressives ever been accountable for any mess they have made other than lose elections? That was pretty neat seeing Handel win in Georgia despite Pee Wee Herman getting $32 million from out of state. By the way, he didn’t even live in the district he was running in. What is that?

          • June 23, 2017 at 9:43 am
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Agent – I agreed with you to start, correctly said Republican’s have been working on this for 6+ years (by their own admission, mind you), and asked you if the people who are going to vote on this should be given more time to read and fully comprehend the plan before they cast their vote.

            What’s your issue with my reply and what did I “word parse”??

          • June 23, 2017 at 10:41 am
            Insnerd8 says:
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            To answer your last question, Jon Ossoff grew up in the sixth district, and is temporarily living about 2 miles outside the district because his fiancée is a medical student at Emory, and needs to be very close to the hospital for her clinical work. She graduates next year, after which they plan to move into the district.

          • June 23, 2017 at 12:42 pm
            Agent says:
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            Rosenblatt, I wonder if the new bill will be easier to read and take less time to read than the one it is replacing. Legal scholars couldn’t read that monstrocity no matter how much time was given. It was truly a Progressive Dream using word parsing language all the way. Not what the country needs, by the way. Massive failure from the start. Clean it up so people will know what is being done and how it will affect them.

          • June 23, 2017 at 1:05 pm
            Conserving the Truth says:
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            Agent,

            How many open hearings has AHCA had? How many did ACA have?

        • June 22, 2017 at 6:00 pm
          Agent says:
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          How much time did the Democrats get to read the 2,700 page monstrocity? They were told it was all good and and Pelosi said they had to pass it to see what was in it.

          By the way, some Democrats have about had enough of Botox face and want new leadership. I hope they keep her so they can continue to lose.

          • June 22, 2017 at 6:08 pm
            UW says:
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            They had 100s of hours of public hearings, adopted 160+ GOP amendments, & then had hours of debate on the Senate floor, so a lot, genius.

            How does it feel to be nothing more than a copy and paster for Fox News? A 5 line script could replicate about 80% of what you do right now. What a waste.

          • June 23, 2017 at 12:37 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Everything I hear from Agent I hear on Rush everyday.

        • June 27, 2017 at 1:23 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          @Rosenblatt; There are SEVERAL plans that, to this point, have been kept under wraps. They are being used to assemble the SAHCA, AHCA, and a revised SAHCA. Watch & wait. Have patience… pardon the accidental pun.

          • June 27, 2017 at 1:24 pm
            VladiBear The Georgian says:
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            Don’t forget: HEALTH CARE SPPECIFICCS

          • June 27, 2017 at 1:46 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            VBTG – Why won’t they vote on the ACTUAL legislation they want passed?

            Why are they drafting these piece-meal options and voting on them if it’s not the plan they actually want to implement?

            The Republicans have control of all three branches of government.

            If there was EVER a time for them to vote on the ACTUAL FULL plan they want passed, wouldn’t it be now when they don’t need a single Democratic vote to move it forward?

          • June 27, 2017 at 6:15 pm
            UW says:
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            Rosenblatt, you are giving them too much credit: they want to eliminate any govt care and give a tax break, everything else is just theater and pretend.

      • June 23, 2017 at 8:34 am
        Ron says:
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        Agent,

        You asked, “How many have been suffering since 2010 from Oblamacare?” My answer: Too many. Did you miss this part of my post where I stated the PPACA is not sufficient? You complain about “word parsers”, but how about reading and/or comprehending my entire post for once. Did you even read my post or did you just default to,. “Ron wrote it so it must not say anything negative about Obamacare”.

        The republicans created the expectation based on their campaign promises for the past 7 years to immediately repeal and replace the PPACA. That is their fault and the fault of those who were too naive to buy it.

        You won, now own it.

      • June 23, 2017 at 9:17 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Let’s see, Obama’s reign reversed the ailing economy and created millions of jobs along the way. Oh, but, Sean Hannity spins it in a different direction and those LIES are believed because ideology means more than facts to some people. Only had 5 months? Wow, talk about fake news! And, by the way, all Iowa had to do was set up their own exchange. Problem solved. Who’s next?

        • June 23, 2017 at 1:10 pm
          Conserving the Truth says:
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          You guys need to let it all go. If Agent, Yogi and the other Trump supporters here have not seen the truth yet they won’t ever open their eyes to the corruption that is going on. Look, the Democrats caused all this whether you want to accept it or not. Now we suffer. Our government needs a complete overhaul. Trump and his admin are destroying what has been built here since our country’s inception. I don’t know why you still argue with them. Do you enjoy it or do you really think your thoughts will impact theirs?

          • June 23, 2017 at 4:02 pm
            Agent says:
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            Conserving, Trump hate has been shown to be a losing strategy. Look at the recent elections for good examples. Our President said that we are going to get tired of winning. Not me. Keep Pelosi in charge in the House, let Obama start campaigning again and all will be good. MAGA

          • June 23, 2017 at 4:28 pm
            Captain Planet says:
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            Hey, I have a great idea. Let’s all drive our golf carts across greens. What a DB i45 is. Not aware of anyone but himself. Complete JA.

          • June 23, 2017 at 4:56 pm
            Confused says:
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            Did he really do that??

          • June 23, 2017 at 4:58 pm
            Captain Planet says:
          • June 27, 2017 at 12:56 pm
            UW says:
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            Haven’t you heard? Anybody who doesn’t drive their golf cart on the green is a cuck and anybody who doesn’t want to sleep with their daughter isn’t Christian. Donnie Tic Tac approves.

    • June 22, 2017 at 7:54 pm
      VladiBear The Georgian says:
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      Nope. Single Payer is a non-starter. wishful thinking, sorta like wishful thinking that Dems will take control over the House in the next election cycle. Or the Senate won’t increase Republican seats over the next TWO election cycles. Or RBG won’t retire before a Dem POTUS takes office. Or… well, what’s the point of adding any more examples of futility in optimistic thoughts by Libitterals?

      • June 23, 2017 at 8:35 am
        Ron says:
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        Considering your track record in predicting health care reform, I am feeling much better about the prospects for single payer now.

        • June 27, 2017 at 1:29 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          Considering your claims that never pan out, no one is giving you any credence now, as was the case before.

          PS Health Care reform is a WIP, so ou can’t pass judgment on it… though you feel the need to defend your position by doing so.

    • June 23, 2017 at 8:50 am
      Bill says:
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      Don’t you think that any fix to healthcare requires addressing the costs of the care? It seems, so far, people only care about the cost of insurance. The cost of insurance reflects the cost of claims to the company. Any fix, regardless whether it is by Dems or Repubs (or both together *gasp*), will require addressing the outrageous cost of the healthcare itself.

      • June 23, 2017 at 9:22 am
        Ron says:
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        Bill,

        You are absolutely correct. But here is the problem. If the government tries to step in to control costs, then many people, mostly from the right, will cry Socialism. And, in that case, they would be right.

        I want the government to focus on what they do best, collect taxes and pay bills. AKA Single payer. Having the government, not individual people, paying the bills will reduce risk and create more competition. That, in turn, will create motivation to reduce health care costs organically.

    • June 23, 2017 at 2:04 pm
      Bill Price says:
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      Ron,
      So you support ” Free Icecream ” for all?
      You will get Rationing or Bankruptcy.
      Bill Price

      • June 23, 2017 at 3:13 pm
        Ron says:
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        Please quote me where I ever said “free”. I will wait here patiently.

        • June 27, 2017 at 11:57 am
          bill price says:
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          Ron,
          Single payer ends up a play for Free health care as a “Right”.
          With High Tech trends in health care, full Preexisting conditions coverage for all, nobody can afford Ins. against exploding costs.
          Bill Price

        • June 27, 2017 at 1:35 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          @Ron; BP’s point does not hinge on you making any SPPECIFIC statement about ‘free HC’. BP is commenting on the lies the Libitterals are pushing about SP HC.

          Libitterals and Socialists in general are much like the Wizard of Oz, trying to avert attention away from the ‘man behind the curtain’ when the issue of the POOR QUALITY and INCREASED MORTALITY under the microcosm of Single Payer called The VA is brought up. The other factor that is not being discussed is the RATIONING of HC in the UK, Cana-duh, etc. Aside from HC, how do things look in Socialist Venezuela these days? Or Cuba, CA, IL, CT, NY, WA?

    • June 26, 2017 at 4:15 pm
      VladiBear The Georgian says:
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      Elections have consequences. No single-payer for you! No free lunch for the free-loader TAKERS … and less paying by the MAKERS, to make things fairer per sane people’s definition of that term.

      • June 27, 2017 at 12:04 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
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        This reads like Ayn Rand fan-fiction.

        I presume you never read to the end of Atlas Shrugged, but just remember: Eddie gets left out in the desert presumably to die because, despite infinite loyalty to the family, the company, and so on, he wasn’t blessed with wealth, so that made him a taker, looter, a rotter, etc.

        Unless you were born into wealth, Vladi dear, you are just another means to an end of someone else higher than you.

      • June 27, 2017 at 1:39 pm
        VladiBear The Georgian says:
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        Relying on fiction to make your point in the REAL world, again? You’re a Libitteral now, but will be very very disappointed soon when ACA is repealed, corporate and personal income taxes are cut, SCOTUS Justice Kennedy retires to be replaced by a 40-50 yo Conservative Justice, and RBG has to retire, yielding another Conservative JoSCOTUS. I’ll leave aside the Wall, and other conservative policies for later discussion.

  • June 22, 2017 at 11:02 pm
    Doug Fisher says:
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    Single-payer is an eventuality. It will certainly happen sometime. Being the only first-world country without guaranteed healthcare is an embarrassment.

    • June 23, 2017 at 2:05 pm
      Bill Price says:
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      Doug,
      So you support single payer ” Free Icecream ” for all?
      You will get Rationing or Bankruptcy.
      Bill Price

      • June 23, 2017 at 3:21 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
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        Single-payer is not free, so I am not sure what you are going on about…

        • June 27, 2017 at 12:09 pm
          Doug Fisher says:
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          If government becomes the source of healthcare coverage in the country, costs will naturally come down. You are right that nobody can afford insurance with the way costs are, for sure.

      • June 26, 2017 at 4:18 pm
        VladiBear The Georgian says:
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        Doug; does EVERYONE pay their actuarial derived premiums?
        IF not, then SOME PART OF SINGLE PAYER is free, including subsidized, which is ‘partially free’.

    • June 26, 2017 at 4:19 pm
      VladiBear The Georgian says:
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      @Doug; Elections have consequences. Single-Payer will NEVER occur in the USA. NEVER. EVER. Get out of your dream world and start pulling the wagon instead of riding in it free of charge, you loafer!

      • June 27, 2017 at 12:11 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
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        I pay more in taxes than the vast majority of Americans. I understand where my money is going and where it comes from. I also recognize that those who are stronger, and those have been blessed by providence should be the ones pulling the cart for those less fortunate.

        I am prepared to do so for my fellow man, are you?

        • June 27, 2017 at 1:41 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          Your teachers have brainwashed you. Your party and political philosophy is being set aside, to become forever irrelevant in the US and other freedom loving nations.

        • June 28, 2017 at 8:53 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Doug,
          Ever hear the quote, “I’d rather be a poor man in a rich country than a rich man in a poor one.” I think many conservatives today would rather be that rich man in a POS country because, hey, they got theirs!

    • June 26, 2017 at 4:20 pm
      VladiBear The Georgian says:
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      @Doug; please post the date when single-Payer HC will occur in the US. Ready, steady, … GO!

  • June 23, 2017 at 12:18 am
    Doug Fisher says:
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    What happened to “Opening up state lines to be able to purchase insurance wherever?” That nonsense is always touted by Republicans as a great option in lieu of, you know, making healthcare a right.

    Is it in this bill? Surely it must be, since they were always talking about it whenever they complained about the ACA.

    Another mystery is this: Republicans know this bill will be incredibly unpopular once Joe Sixpack figures out he has been screwed, so which house reps will be voting against it strategically? They need to be given an out, so they allow the maximum amount of “Nay” votes for people in toss-up districts.

    If Dems were smart, they would pounce on this practice in full. Example campaign ad:

    “Joe BaitAndSwitch (R) has voted with Trump on 97% of all issues. Do you really think he wouldn’t have voted for the Steal American Deplorables’ Healthcare Act if they needed the vote?

    Here he is on record in 2010: “We have a plan to replace to repeal and replace Obamacare and it is going to be great”

    He was with them in 2010, he voted dozens of times to repeal Obamacare in bills that went nowhere, but when it came time to do it, he couldn’t pull the trigger. That’s Washington politics and we’re not going to stand for it.”

    Pull in on image of smiling Democratic candidate, whose soul hasn’t been tarnished by hypocrisy, greed, and racism.

    Landslide victory.

    • June 23, 2017 at 12:01 pm
      Ron says:
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      Doug Fisher,

      You asked, “What happened to ‘Opening up state lines to be able to purchase insurance wherever?'” Answer: They already can. To what they are really referring is making health insurance interstate commerce and moving regulations from the states to the federal government.

  • June 23, 2017 at 1:12 pm
    Conserving the Truth says:
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    Abandon hope.

    • June 23, 2017 at 2:12 pm
      Bill Price says:
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      Truth,
      Considering the overwhelming support for free, unlimited, government paid health insurance for everyone by commenters to this blog, I fear your comment is fitting.
      Bill Price

      • June 23, 2017 at 2:46 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
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        Nobody is pushing for free healthcare that I have seen. What I want is a single-payer government plan. Why aren’t we good enough to deserve what Congressmen and their interns get for life? Maybe part of the reason that they are so quick to take someone else’s care is because they have 100% security that they will never lose their own.

        Unfortunately, Republicans are all about “F*** You, I’ve got mine!”

        • June 27, 2017 at 1:43 pm
          VladiBear The Georgian says:
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          If actuarial set premiums are not COMPLETELY paid by each risk, and policies are issued, then some of HC is FREE. (aka subsidized by others).

          • June 27, 2017 at 1:53 pm
            Confused says:
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            “Some of HC is FREE”

            Please edify yourself and look up the the definition of FREE before continuing to argue that something can be partially free.

            I’ve got some land to sell you. It normally costs $500,000, but it’s free! Well, some of it is free. You have to pay $250,000.

        • June 27, 2017 at 2:24 pm
          bill price says:
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          Doug ,
          See bottom commnent.
          BP

      • June 23, 2017 at 4:14 pm
        Confused says:
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        Continuing to argue points nobody ever made to fit your narrative that everyone with an opposing view and opinion are 100% wrong without taking even half a moment to honestly try to understand what the other people are actually saying? Sounds like another Yogi & Agent is posting here now.

        • June 23, 2017 at 4:35 pm
          Agent says:
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          How about a FACT to go home on to end the week?

          FACT
          The Progressive Democratic Party led by Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Chucky Schmucky and others made the biggest mess in US history on Healthcare. It is such a mess that almost no viable exchanges are left and the few that are still around are passing huge rate increases which are stifling the American People. Now, Democrats want the Republicans to ride to the rescue to clean up their mess and then spew hate speech if it doesn’t go their way. Guess what, the politics of hate do not work. You need to get behind our President and Republican leaders. They are trying to MAGA.

          Feel free to down vote me all you want.

          • June 23, 2017 at 4:55 pm
            Confused says:
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            “Now, Democrats want the Republicans to ride to the rescue to clean up their mess”

            Cite ONE Democrat in office who has asked the Republican’s to repeal and/or replace the ACA.

            Just one.

            Let’s see if you can support that it’s actually a FACT.

          • June 23, 2017 at 5:04 pm
            Doug Fisher says:
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            All sorts of misinformation in here. Funny enough, and in classic Republican fashion, something labeled FACT which is actually opinion.

            -No sourcing
            -No Objectivity
            -No Truth.

            I refuse to “get behind” fascists who are actively destroying the country. Not passively, ACTIVELY.

  • June 26, 2017 at 6:01 pm
    VladiBear The Georgian says:
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    Obama, Gruber, Jarrett, and E. Emmanuel thought the Death Spiral they built into the ACA would have citizens crying for Single Payer at this time. Oops! The reality is that US citizens are crying for Republicans to do a clean repeal, and let the FREE MARKET fix the problems ACA created. And the Senate Republicans are largely lost and unable to find their way to the finish line. But, I’m holding out hope that a Repeal and partial replace will be agreed upon WITHOUT ANY participation by obstructionist, sore loser, Libitteral Dem Senators, and will be approved before July 4…. Independence of Socialists’ Bad Decisions Day.

    I have hope in Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, etc. pushing the aimless Republican Senate bill in the right direction. Then, residual problems can be fixed gradually, over time, through additional bills that push it toward a completely free market solution.

    • June 26, 2017 at 11:10 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      In the real world, where most of us live, more people are calling for Single Payer than they are this Republican plan for something but actual health care. But, keep trying to misinform, Yogi. We are all used to it. Oh, and source required for your opening statement. Otherwise, all you are doing is spilling fake news.

      • June 27, 2017 at 12:14 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
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        seconded. Get out of here with your inane babblings. How about some sourcing and proof?

    • June 27, 2017 at 1:45 pm
      VladiBear The Georgian says:
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      Don’t you two wish you still had the power of CENSORSHIP via BOTs?

      It doesn’t work that way at the polling stations, and thus, elections have consequences you can’t avoid by activating BOTs.

      • June 27, 2017 at 10:25 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        No, I am an Independent, not a conservative. I don’t believe in censorship like most conservatives, including our President. I believe in free and open speech because I believe in The Constitution. Yes, there are consequences for certain words said in certain situations/venues. But, I don’t even vote out here. I think all words should be left out unmasked for all to see. Then, we know who we are dealing with. And Yogi, brother, your stripes truly do shine. No matter our disagreements, why on earth would you or I want to draw the curtain on one another? Doesn’t make much sense to me.

  • June 27, 2017 at 2:19 pm
    bill price says:
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    Y’all are smart people..are you trying to help, or just call names?
    Facts as I see them.
    – High Tech Health Care Costs are exploding.
    – Family of 2 40ish ACA Ins. is $2,000 / mo. That’ll break them.
    – Interstate market will only homogenize rates nationwide. Not a Fix.
    – Most everyone agrees some kind of preexcon Ins. is good.
    – But proposal for separate fund for preexcon, has no limit on costs.
    – Single-payer ends up w/ unlimited subsidized coverage for all.
    – Essential to have a way to increase Rev, and/or reduce costs.
    Are any above statements inaccurate? Any additional facts to add?
    Maybe with facts on the Table, is there a solution? or just more Pol Hype?
    Bill Price

    • June 28, 2017 at 3:13 am
      Doug Fisher says:
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      My 2 cents:

      – High Tech Health Care Costs are exploding.

      Agreed. Unfortunately, neither the House nor Senate bill address how to control costs. Ideas that have been floated forever like allowing cheap Canadian drugs (same or more rigorous testing standards than the FDA), encouraging and promoting selling insurance across state lines, and incentivizing prevention of diseases instead of treating catastrophic incidents in ERs are not present in this bill.

      – Family of 2 40ish ACA Ins. is $2,000 / mo. That’ll break them.

      I have never heard of premiums being anywhere close to this high. Please provide a resource or a link that supports this assertion. I am seeing a Kaiser Family Foundation link that shows less than half this amount in almost every state. But maybe I am wrong. I do agree that the premiums were still too high, though, even at half of your quoted amount. In those cases, people would probably opt to pay the year-end uninsured tax, instead, which capped out at 2.5% of income.

      – Interstate market will only homogenize rates nationwide. Not a Fix.

      Agreed.

      – Most everyone agrees some kind of preexcon Ins. is good.

      If we are going to be a fair and just society, YES. If we are going to let greed, avarice and a total lack of empathy take over, then no.

      – But proposal for separate fund for preexcon, has no limit on costs.

      You can’t rope every preexcon into a high-risk pool, because insurers won’t want to participate in those pools and the premiums would be ASTRONOMICAL for the participants. It would just be another ER visit, with astronomical costs that don’t go paid, because nobody can afford them, so the insureds end up taking more rate hikes for all types of services to pay for those without coverage. Else, the victim goes bankrupt and they and their families are irreversibly effected for years, if not decades.

      – Single-payer ends up w/ unlimited subsidized coverage for all.

      Correct. Everyone’s taxes go up, specifically the wealthy.

      – Essential to have a way to increase Rev, and/or reduce costs.

      Million dollar question here. Nobody seems to want to do either. Republicans won’t raise taxes, and neither side is interested in forcing rates down to reasonable amounts.

      • June 28, 2017 at 6:00 pm
        bill price says:
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        Doug,
        Your comments are constructive.
        I’m tied up thru tomorrow, but will respond ASAP.
        Thanks for seeking a productive analysis.
        BP

        • June 29, 2017 at 2:03 am
          Doug Fisher says:
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          Thank you, I would welcome further analysis and disputation of any points. Perhaps we can learn more together and, even if we arrive at different answers due to differing ideologies. All things are edifying when done with true intent.

          • July 5, 2017 at 3:53 pm
            bill price says:
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            Doug,
            ( Sorry for Delay.. I work + live at beach so lots of family visits over 4th.)
            To the Discussion of the unagreed ” Facts” :::::
            – Family of 2 40ish ACA Ins. is $2,000 / mo. That’ll break them.
            BCBS is single Provider in NC. Rates have close to Doubled.
            I had heard “Street Talk” of $2,000 premiums, but saw no facts. The Example > H&W, both work,wife hard working waitress volunteered comment of their premium over $2,000/ mo. in ’17. Again, that will break most families.
            – But proposal for separate fund for preexcon, has no limit on costs.
            – Essential to have a way to increase Rev, and/or reduce costs.
            Basically , you agree….
            Your response,, Pooling all Prexisting Conditions will break the pool, and agree that Taxes must be raised or costs cut.
            I basically see 2 options:
            1) Other unlimited Sources of Tax revenues on a wobbly economy. (But Unlimited high tech Health Care will break the economy.)
            or
            2) Increase revenues with increased premiums on Intentionally Unhealthy people or encourage Intentionally Unhealthy people to get healthy to reduce costs.
            We have beat this issue of Intentionally Unhealthy people around a bit with no resolution.
            IMO, there is no option. If there is no countervailant Increase in Revenue or strong motivation to Get Healthy, health care must ultimately be rationed or total taxes will overwhelme the Country.
            Please note again, that I support Preexcon for individuals with genetic preexcon that try to live healthy lives. They deserve all the help we can give them. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT support Preexcon coverage at basic Premium, for the guy that smokes 4 Packs a day.

            Is there another solution?

            Bill Price
            PS: I recall the grade school election where one candate proposed a “pay as you go” plan. The opposition offered Free Ice cream for every one.
            The Free Ice Cream Candidate won, but with no money, there was no Fee Ice Cream ( except probaly for the winner.)
            No country can afford High Quality, Unlimited High tech Health Care.

  • June 28, 2017 at 1:10 am
    Celtica says:
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    Let me get this right — the GOP has all three houses and has had a better health care plan since 2010. So, what’s the problem? Just checking in…

    • June 28, 2017 at 3:01 am
      Doug Fisher says:
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      Obstruction, Celtica.

      They were so used to obstruction (remember, it was their number 1 stated priority when they took back the house and Senate), that they forgot how to lead and legislate for all Americans, not just the loudest voices on the right.

      As populations continue to dwindle in rural areas and more people move to the cities, more red states will turn purple, and purple states will go more blue. When this happens, maybe the GOP will go back to being what they advertised themselves for decades until after our greatest modern-era president, Eisenhower: a party that dedicates themselves to creating a society not built around greed and the military industrial complex, but by freedom and justice.

    • June 28, 2017 at 7:25 am
      Ron says:
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      Celtica,

      Simple, they NEVER had a plan. It was all for campaigning, period.

      • June 28, 2017 at 8:58 am
        Captain Planet says:
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        Actually, originally the conservative plan was the PPACA. But, a black Democratic man with an Arab sounding name signed it into law, so it had to demonized.

        • June 28, 2017 at 10:26 am
          Celtica says:
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          Captain, I am heartened to see that you are still keeping them honest.
          Doug, good observation.

          I hope what this all means is that BOTH parties will work towards a solution. At a minimum, preexisting conditions will now be the law of the land and not some health crapshoot.

        • June 28, 2017 at 10:40 am
          Doug Fisher says:
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          Factual statement. Originally proposed by right-wing think tanks and parroted by Right-wing talking heads…until Barry Hussein got behind it.



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