Senators, Including Ailing McCain, Expected to Begin Vote on Health Bill Today

By and | July 25, 2017

  • July 25, 2017 at 9:45 am
    Natasha and Bearis says:
    Hot debate. What do you think?
    Thumb up 7
    Thumb down 14

    Repeal now. Let the HI and HC industries figure out how to resolve the inequilibrium in their markets caused by ACA. Leaving ACA-compliant policies in-force until they do, Republicans in Congress will remind US citizens what an abhorrent disaster the Democrats imposed on ALL of us.

    Replacement will not be done by Congress alone. The aspects of HEALTH CARE SPPECIFICCS will be enacted by all stakeholders in the HC and HI industries.

    • July 25, 2017 at 1:56 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 8
      Thumb down 1

      Either way, I sincerely hope President Trump makes a decision soon on subsidies so the insurance carriers know what to expect from the market in 2018.

      While the ACA is a failure, keeping carriers in the dark on subsidies hurts everyone (well, everyone except Senators, Congressmen and those in the Executive branch – their health insurance won’t change)

      • July 25, 2017 at 2:33 pm
        Agent says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 8

        Certainly not McCain’s insurance. By the way, didn’t think he had surgery for brain cancer. It was for a blood clot and they found Cancer. Fake news strikes again.

        • July 26, 2017 at 12:44 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 2

          They don’t have anything to gain if you’re right on this one Agent, and I don’t really want to look it up because it’s not one I care about.

          When you emphasize stuff like this, true “fake news” so to speak gets turned into conspiracy theories…Just so you know. It’s important to focus on whoppers. Not tiny beads.

          • July 26, 2017 at 1:05 pm
            Agent says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 3

            Bob, anyone posting that McCain had Cancer surgery on his brain a few days ago was posting “Fake News”. Do you really believe he could appear in the Senate a few days later after invasive brain surgery for a tumor?

            By the way, we seem to have “Fake News” 24/7 these days from about 95% of the media, but the American people have learned to disregard it. The non fake news is that Debbie Wasserman’s IT guy was caught trying to flee the country when he was arrested. I wonder if he will sing like a bird if granted immunity. It is all about to crash down on the DNC and their evil band.

          • July 26, 2017 at 2:35 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 1

            “Bob, anyone posting that McCain had Cancer surgery on his brain a few days ago was posting “Fake News”. Do you really believe he could appear in the Senate a few days later after invasive brain surgery for a tumor?”

            What’s your point? Don’t debate Doug’s ignorance on a non related issue. This is like when they bring up your history on non related issues. It won’t end with a good result.

            “By the way, we seem to have “Fake News” 24/7 these days from about 95% of the media, but the American people have learned to disregard it.”

            I haven’t. I’ve been making people aware with the big examples. There is definitely a misinformation campaign going on. I’m aware. I’m worried when small issues are focused on about what happens when people like Trevor Noah make fun of those who comment on those. It works. It wins over the youth. You’re talking to win over people who are already won over, and I believe, though I may be wrong, you’re pushing away the young. This is a weakness. We need them.

            “The non fake news is that Debbie Wasserman’s IT guy was caught trying to flee the country when he was arrested. I wonder if he will sing like a bird if granted immunity. It is all about to crash down on the DNC and their evil band.”

            I would need to look into this more. I don’t know what you’re talking about. You’ve hit an issue I haven’t seen.

          • July 26, 2017 at 2:51 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 0

            Allow me to shorten this and say I agree with you on fake news as a potential problem, and I want people to know about it. This is why I’m choosing how to talk about it and when it can have gains.

      • July 25, 2017 at 4:39 pm
        Natasha and Bearis says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 6
        Thumb down 5

        Don’t like being kept in the dark about healthcare details? Join the 330 million Americans that got the big, disappointing surprise carefully hidden by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

  • July 25, 2017 at 4:35 pm
    Doug Fisher says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 7
    Thumb down 5

    How courageous of McCain to return to the Capitol floor after brain surgery and the partial removal of his skull, taking full advantage of his government-provided healthcare, to vote to take it away from others.

    Bless his heart.

    • July 25, 2017 at 4:41 pm
      Natasha and Bearis says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 6
      Thumb down 7

      Health care cannot be taken away due to medical service providers being sworn to the Hippocratic Oath. Lies will be outed and you will be held accountable for each and every one you make.

      • July 25, 2017 at 4:49 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 8
        Thumb down 4

        Health care absolutely is taken away from people, are you serious?

        Not emergency room services, but if you are seriously calling ER visits “health care” then you are the reason the problems in the industry exist.

        Preventative checkups, medicinal regimens, and minor surgical procedures would save the populace billions of dollars in health care expenses, but you would rather people go uncovered until a medical emergency relegates them to bankruptcy. Good job!

        If you are seriously bringing up the Hippocratic Oath, I don’t even know where to start. Did you know that the Oath provides for free tuition for med students? Or that it makes doctors swear never to use a knife? Are you really that dense in thinking that the Hippocratic Oath has any weight when the same doctors who take it go on to perform abortions and euthanasia? Do you know who administers execution drugs? Do you realize how often insurance carriers deny coverage, max out benefits, and outright refuse treatments for their insureds?

        I feel like I am talking to a child here.

        • July 25, 2017 at 5:41 pm
          Agent says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 6
          Thumb down 5

          Doug, I think you took the “Hippocritic” oath when you decided to go with the Progressive Socialist Democratic party line.

          • July 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm
            Doug Fisher says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 5
            Thumb down 3

            “party before reason” thinking is why the country is so divided. Truth be told, I am always evolving my positions on everything. Many of my political opinions as a youth and adolescent were based on misconceptions. As I grew in scientific and political understanding, I progressed… Simple as that.

          • July 26, 2017 at 12:54 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 1

            ““party before reason” thinking is why the country is so divided. Truth be told, I am always evolving my positions on everything. Many of my political opinions as a youth and adolescent were based on misconceptions. As I grew in scientific and political understanding, I progressed… Simple as that.”

            Literally every person I have seen say this is either a liar, or a hypocrite, or doesn’t realize they aren’t that special.

            There are party differences. Huge ones. Some positions don’t need to evolve. Some remain true, and the risk is trying to reinvent the wheel. Maybe you need to mature more. As for scientific and political understanding, I’m thinking you went more with “feels” and “this lines up with how I want things to be” given how you have argued climate change in particular, and given your many “wow” comments lately to beliefs instead of “scientific” response. You’re not as think as you smart you are.

        • July 25, 2017 at 6:37 pm
          Natasha and Bearis says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 4
          Thumb down 3

          Please list times when patients were turned away from ERs with legitimate illnesses.

          Meanwhile, I’ll compile a MUCH longer list of delays in Socialist Medical Care/Insurance system nations (e.g. UK, Cana-duh) wherein patients suffered serious medical consequences as a result of said delays. Then, we can also look at the VA in the USA for delays. For starters, Baby Charlie Gard is a recent example. If you want Single Delayer, er, Single Slayer, er, Single Payer Health Care, move to Cana-duh or the UK.

          You earned the Ted Baxter Award for today.

          • July 25, 2017 at 6:52 pm
            Doug Fisher says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 3

            You are playing yourself, it’s almost comical.

            Comparing ER visits to health care… Like I said, you are the reason this industry and country have insanely mixed up priorities when it comes to health care. Instead of actively searching for ways to cover everyone and making societal ills disappear, we are actively trying to get further from that goal…

            Your positions in this are untenable, unchrstian, and idiotic.

          • July 26, 2017 at 9:06 am
            Natasha and Bearis says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            Your opinions are always welcome here…. for yucks.

          • July 26, 2017 at 11:34 am
            Doug Fisher says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 3
            Thumb down 2

            You’re right, telling people to go to the ER as a health care resource is a great idea. My mistake.

          • July 26, 2017 at 12:59 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 4
            Thumb down 3

            “Doug Fisher says:

            You are playing yourself, it’s almost comical.
            Comparing ER visits to health care… Like I said, you are the reason this industry and country have insanely mixed up priorities when it comes to health care. Instead of actively searching for ways to cover everyone and making societal ills disappear, we are actively trying to get further from that goal…
            Your positions in this are untenable, unchrstian, and idiotic.”

            Christian shaming based on being ungodly. Irony = Doug Fisher.

            I’m willing to bet you’ve called many other people Christian zealots…Well, except when you’re trying to throw something in an immoral Christian’s face. Then it’s just fair game, the rules change don’t they?

            Outside of this, your comment misses a great deal many points. She’s not saying to rely on ER. You’re the problem actually, as you see that and then make assumptions yourself, based one what you perceive as healthcare problems. She’s not you. Maybe that’s your problem, and what you need to understand.

            What position is untenable, specifically? I have a feeling you are just parroting words you hear.

            I’m pretty sure her only position so far is no ACA, no single pay, and that the best thing is a free market.

            That is idiotic? Well, I consider your simple way of looking at it idiotic…

    • July 26, 2017 at 1:07 pm
      Agent says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 3

      Doug, you post Fake News. Here is a dose of reality. Since you are from Nebraska, was it Fake News or reality when your esteemed former Senator Nelson sold out on the infamous “Cornhusker Kickback” on Obamacare. We noticed he didn’t last long in the Senate after that.

      • July 26, 2017 at 10:50 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 2
        Thumb down 2

        Definitely not fake news. He negotiated for that kickback for the state. He was already planning retirement, but his sudden unpopularity as a result of his shenanigans would have done him in regardless. He was a great governor and a good senator most of the time, but nobody is perfect.

        I have never posted fake news, but I am not afraid of posting my sources, either. Can’t say the same for most of you on the far-right, unfortunately. I am still waiting on dozens of responses to requests for proof of your off-the-wall assertions across several articles. Guessing I am going to be SOL with that, right?

        • July 28, 2017 at 2:17 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 1

          “I have never posted fake news, but I am not afraid of posting my sources, either. Can’t say the same for most of you on the far-right, unfortunately”

          Except for when you make bold assertions regarding ER explosions in the absence of the ACA, without any evidence and a far right person corrects you right? I have seldom seen any democrats here back up their positions with sources.

          And when something contradicts their sources they often follow their sources and not the data or an idealistic concept that doesn’t compute the way they think it does.

          Stop labeling the right while there is one on the right here right now providing more links than literally anyone here (Me).

          As for you Agent: Are you watching this?

          Doug has a huge ego, I’ve sufficiently beat the living tar out of his arguments with evidence, and he still keeps with them.

          Such as the ACA ER comment. The numbers don’t meet the facts, so ignore the post, and then say in another section that I’m taking to myself, and then claim the far right never uses links right? Maybe it’s about WHO YOU FOCUS ON Doug. And what you CHOOSE to see.

  • July 25, 2017 at 5:50 pm
    integrity matters says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 6
    Thumb down 0

    I think it is great that Trump is trying to force them to bring this to the floor for a procedural vote. However, I do not like the fact that he is just willing to sign anything that passes.

    I want it fixed or as close to being fixed as possible. Signing garbage legislation is not going to help the people or the affordability or long term sustainability of healthcare in this country.

    • July 25, 2017 at 6:39 pm
      Natasha and Bearis says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 3
      Thumb down 4

      Repeal legislation can precede other legislation to enable free competition in the HC and HI markets. Patience. There is no single ‘silver bullet’ legislation that can singly fix the abhorrent disaster caused by ACA.

      • July 25, 2017 at 8:20 pm
        Doug Fisher says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 3

        Repealing without replacing, or even just doing a soft repeal, like only voting down the individual mandate, will absolutely kill the ACA.

        That sounds good to you, but without a replacement in place, millions will lose their healthcare. Even though you think an Emergency Room is a good replacement for sound health care and health management, this will again become many people’s only recourse to see a Dr–once their health is already at the brink. This will result in increased strain on ERs, skyrocketing medical costs, and confusion across the board. Since no one will be able to afford an ER visit without health insurance, those costs will once again be passed onto those of us with employer-provided health insurance. Thanks, clowns.

        If they must be repeal the bill, they must have guarantees in place that prevent the system from collapsing, and millions from collapsing with it.

        • July 26, 2017 at 1:20 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 3
          Thumb down 2

          “Repealing without replacing, or even just doing a soft repeal, like only voting down the individual mandate, will absolutely kill the ACA.
          That sounds good to you, but without a replacement in place, millions will lose their healthcare. Even though you think an Emergency Room is a good replacement for sound health care and health management, this will again become many people’s only recourse to see a Dr–once their health is already at the brink. This will result in increased strain on ERs, skyrocketing medical costs, and confusion across the board. Since no one will be able to afford an ER visit without health insurance, those costs will once again be passed onto those of us with employer-provided health insurance. Thanks, clowns.
          If they must be repeal the bill, they must have guarantees in place that prevent the system from collapsing, and millions from collapsing with it.”

          Still better than the ACA. They will lose potential health insurance, not health care.

          Some will be better off. Your ER analysis is ignorant. More people will go to the ER without the ACA?

          https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/report-uninsured-emergency-room-use-greatly-exaggerated

          Then why is it the single largest group going to the ER, and most likely to be “frequent fliers” are Medicaid recipients?

          And more on that, why is it that ER visits have not come down? You are talking a theory from 2009, that never came into fruition when you claim that ER will replace the ACA, or will only see a doctor when their health is on the brink, in concept. In practice, hogwash. A lot of people not seeing the doctor has to do with habits and how the market has worked. I would argue things like the ACA encourage people not to look at what they are doing or buying. The government is doing the looking for them.

          There has not been a reduction in ER visits since the ACA passed, which means your theory is totes magotes just your feels, and I say totes magotes because of how childish you are making conceptual based arguments, without regard to numbers (which again you always claim you use).

          ht tp://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/mar/10/tom-price/hhs-chief-tom-price-correct-er-use-obamacare/

          This is old. You’re too easy, and I think the reason you choose to debate people like Natash and Agent is you believe they are vulnerable, and you like to make moral arguments more than anything else. We get it, they will cause people to not have insurance and aren’t Christian and you are so amazing. Now get to some relevant facts instead of self praise while you choose people to debate that make it easy to look good.

          I wouldn’t normally comment much to low information people like you, except I bet you do this to a lot of people and I can’t allow that morally, and, I bet you actually convince a lot of people to make these moral arguments…Which needs to be nipped in the bud.

      • July 26, 2017 at 9:10 am
        Natasha and Bearis says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 3
        Thumb down 2

        Natasha: Moose and squirrel and ACA must die!
        Bearis: Don’t worry ’bout ‘de ACA; eet’s inna death spiralsky. Let’s just work on Moose and squirrel’s demise.

        The FREE MARKET will step in and clean up the mess left behind by the out-of-power Dems.

        • July 26, 2017 at 1:24 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 0
          Thumb down 1

          Natasha and Agent:

          Don’t let these guys make you look like fools. You have the right concepts. Doug is making huge errors in his logical commentary. Expose him, and also, don’t allow him to question your morality or Christian behavior because of how you think insurance works best.

          As Ben Shapiro says, quite often, the proper reply to someone like that is not simply you’re wrong, it’s also to point out they are immoral in reply. It makes him a worse person doing what he’s doing. You of course have to back up your facts and connect the moral dots, but don’t let this hack try to shame you for being against the ACA, or say you’ll throw people out on the street so to speak.

          This is so asinine. And people say Trump is the issue, no. Trump revealed the whack jobs like this.

        • July 26, 2017 at 2:30 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 2

          Hopefully, but it’s doubtful. Before the 60’s health insurance didn’t explode in crises and costs. The republicans have been unable to stop the wrenches and regulations. The more it explodes the more the democrats claim regulation is the solution, and the more people like Doug Fisher argue ideals in place of concepts and plans. I don’t think the republicans will be able to get this done.

          It sucks. And then Doug will rely on democrats thinking “they couldn’t get it done, so let’s go with democrats!” who over regulate. We are screwed, and a lot of it is due to millennials, and the generation just before.

          There’s no way we will convince these people the free market is the way to go. I’m sad by it. I know this won’t be fixed, and while people like Confused and Doug cycle through this tar, of how disgusting blah blah is, they won’t do a complete review to find the true problem. This will continue to go this way.

          • July 26, 2017 at 6:15 pm
            Natasha and Bearis says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            @bob; a free market can fix most of the current problems.

            Unfortunately, the timing of the death spiral is such that not enough pain is being felt for Republicans to realize retaining ACA or ACA-lite policies isn’t in the best interest of US citizens, and that OPTIONS to choose from will enable a separating equilibrium. That requires the health insurance industry to be creative enough to offer the proper coverage options for different policies, or, better, a basic policy with optional endorsements for needed coverage additions.

            Any actuary or underwriter worth their salaries / bonuses will tell you that the compression of the relativities of high cost cover for the elder to low cost cover for youths of 3:1 is essentially equivalent to a forced pooling equilibrium, which is destined to fail… i.e. the current death spiral is entering its final phase.

          • July 26, 2017 at 6:24 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 2
            Thumb down 2

            “@bob; a free market can fix most of the current problems.”

            I just want to note I don’t doubt that. What I doubt is we will get a free market, due to the above, and that since the over regulation that started way back in the 60’s, healthcare is an easy one to get people to agree to regulate due to fear.

  • July 28, 2017 at 1:53 am
    Celtica says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 4
    Thumb down 1

    3 houses of government and the Party of No could not get it done.
    Thank you Senator McCain. You ARE a true patriot.

    • July 28, 2017 at 3:43 am
      Doug Fisher says:
      Like or Dislike:
      Thumb up 4
      Thumb down 1

      We got lucky that he manned up and actually Mavericked a vote this time around. He has been all talk for so long I was worried he wasn’t going to do it. If this is the last vote he ever casts (heaven forbid), it could go a long way towards repairing his rep as an independent soul.

      Kudos to him, Murkowski, and Collins. Three Republicans actually decided to put the country over their party affiliation. As Senator McCain as he walked off the floor about why he cast the vote that he did, “It was the right thing to do.”

      • July 28, 2017 at 10:34 am
        Celtica says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 2
        Thumb down 1

        Indeed. They did the right thing. McCain was right – they need to ALL work together on this.

      • July 28, 2017 at 1:43 pm
        bob says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 1
        Thumb down 1

        “Kudos to him, Murkowski, and Collins. Three Republicans actually decided to put the country over their party affiliation. As Senator McCain as he walked off the floor about why he cast the vote that he did, “It was the right thing to do.””

        Again, bull. 48 republicans tried to pass a plan giving democrats most of what they wanted to get rid of something bad. Another 3 had different ideas.

        What you’re saying is absurd. The right is doing this because they believe in it, and there is always dissenting opinion. HOWEVER all democrats blocked any bill that wasn’t theirs, and all debate on new bills.

        This isn’t an opinion. They refused to present new bills to have open floor debate regarding them. That is how bills are crafted. You are all idealistic here, so much so it makes me lose faith in humanity.

        I noticed you didn’t reply to any of my posts that use facts and instead on a recent one I didn’t read.

        It’s because you’re a tool and a fool.

        • July 28, 2017 at 3:34 pm
          Doug Fisher says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 0
          Thumb down 1

          You say the Democrats were unwilling to entertain anything about repealing the ACA. I say that the Republicans were unable to entertain anything about building on the ACA, making adjustments to it and saving it.

          You say there were 48 Republicans who agreed, I say that there were 51 Senators who disagreed. The majority won, how hard is that to understand. Is it politics or is it policy?

          • July 28, 2017 at 3:43 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 0

            Also, what I say is the democrats were clearly unwilling to work on a new bill.

            You claimed they were shut out of working on a new bill.

            Were you wrong? Are the democrats willing to work on a new bill?

            The republicans are doing what they can, and are working with what they have to. The democrats however, are not.

            They have stubbornly put their feet down on this, and you assign no blame on that basis, while saying they were shut out and they weren’t.

            I guess if the democrats scream about it, you’ll come to their aide, eh?

            In what scenario will you say they did something procedurally wrong, or is that just republicans?

        • July 28, 2017 at 3:41 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 0

          “You say the Democrats were unwilling to entertain anything about repealing the ACA. I say that the Republicans were unable to entertain anything about building on the ACA, making adjustments to it and saving it. ”

          The ACA shouldn’t be saved, for one, and for two, the republicans were willing to add democrat endorsements to their bill, aka bi partisan. The democrats refused to construct bills from scratch, aka political. I’m going to see you admit this. You’re being a fool.

          “You say there were 48 Republicans who agreed, I say that there were 51 Senators who disagreed. The majority won, how hard is that to understand. Is it politics or is it policy?”

          I’m referring about what it says about the 51, or 48 rather vs the 3, because that’s how you said it. I link actions to go with the 51, who are acting abhorrently in their office.

          The republicans ran on removing the ACA, and they are making actions to make a replacement. The democrats are clearly not, and based on what I posted, it’s clear, they will only accept a modified ACA, which they didn’t know the affects of, it’s bloated, has 2,700 pages, etc. Which regulations should go and shouldn’t? How will we know what is good, vs bi partisan (which the later of the two is politics, politics YOU are playing not me, so don’t bs me with your loaded cliché lines, I’m not as foolish to fall for this as you or folks like you)

      • July 28, 2017 at 2:02 pm
        bob says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 1
        Thumb down 1

        https://gop.com/wheres-their-plan/

        Don’t insult the source, this goes through many other sources as to what happened, as it happened.

        Are you really going to say the democrats aren’t putting party over country?

        They have made it abundantly clear the ACA or single payer is all they will do. They will allow no ideas from the republicans, and they have done this I might add since Obama won. They are good at it, even when republicans win office, they create crises like these. Trump being pissed is a symptom, it isn’t the structural issue. The democrats are engaging in that.

        At what point will you admit the democrats decided to block any bills the republicans could do, and the republicans as a result went to reconciliation process to pass one, and then inserted democrat wants? Schumer even refused any amendments until he saw a final bill. When do you ever see a final bill before it goes to amendment process? Often, the bill is amended slightly and reintroduced like 5 times! A complete bill never makes it to the floor!

        They are lying! And are manipulating public opinion to win and divide people and it’s working!

        That is the sick part!

        htt p://www.washingtonexaminer.com/chuck-schumer-democrats-refuse-to-offer-amendments-until-final-obamacare-repeal-bill-revealed/article/2629809

        While in this Schumer tries to explain why he won’t offer amendments he’s clearly lying.

        I will ask you again, do you see ANYTHING the democrats are doing that is wrong, or are YOU hyper focused on Trump? And if you are consider why? Perhaps the public and democrats want that?

        I’m smarter than your average bear, but you aren’t. Stop being a blind lemming.

        • July 28, 2017 at 3:43 pm
          Doug Fisher says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 0
          Thumb down 1

          Are you really going to say the Republicans aren’t putting party over country?

          They have made it abundantly clear repealing the ACA is all they will do. They will allow no ideas from the Democrats, and they have done this I might add since they took back the House…

          etc etc etc

          Democrats are obviously playing politics to curry public favor. Politics is politics after all. Both sides do and have done this since time immemorial. Republicans have been doing it since passage of the bill. Democrats are doing it with each CBO report showing where problems could arise with new bills being passed. It is all politics, not sure why you are so incensed about it this time around, since you surely won’t be next time it is Republicans playing the spoiler. (or if Democrats learn to shoot themselves in the foot like the GOP)

          • July 28, 2017 at 4:32 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 0

            When I can tell my daughter to go to college and support Trump or take her to a rally, and know she will be ok, I’ll be ok with the left.

            When I can tell her she can talk about her religious ideals, without risk of losing her job for being anti gay, I’ll tell her I’m ok with the left.

            When the left respects donor relationships, and doesn’t insist on making them public in order to control people based on political aspects(the supreme court actually made a ruling on this in the past when certain government officials and businesses tried to make whoever supported civil rights bills public to go after them, and in the now this is no different than when Obama tried to make donor positions to groups like anti gay bill donations public, disregarding the usual reason people don’t support gay bills is not bigoted, it generally has to do with what it may impose, this was allowing for the government to come in and take you down publicly) I will trust the left.

            When I don’t see a bill in WA state making it criminal to make commentary on facebook that could be seen as anti gay, as in land you in jail, I’ll support the left.

            When I don’t see bill C16 in Canada, for the same basic thing for people who refuse to call trans people the gender they want to be, for 2 years in prison, I will support the left.

            When I don’t see the gay marriage bill in WA, intentionally causing conflict with Churches, I will support the left.

            When I don’t see the left using the government to leak and issue FISA’s on people, I will support the left.

            When I see true freedom of speech and peace, I’ll support the left, and not before.

          • July 28, 2017 at 4:35 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 0

            When I don’t see Sanders saying he will encourage the DOJ to prosecute climate change deniers, essentially government approved opinions only, I will support the left.

            I can go all day. You tell me the worst thing the republicans have done. A tweet? Talked with Russians about getting help for an election? I wouldn’t even care on that, if it happened. I find it more of a risk to say countries shouldn’t comment on other country’s issues. Now that is not to say what Russia did is ok. However, Obama has openly influenced other elections and I don’t care. I am fair on this. He also spied on other nations he wanted to influence. I also don’t care. This is probably your biggest compliant on Trump I would bet, other than phrasing.

            Tell me the biggest structural issue. The biggest policy issue, with him and republicans.

            I am not just saying this to be mean. Maybe you really do have items I don’t, but I doubt it. These are real, and very big structural issues.

        • July 28, 2017 at 4:17 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 0

          “Are you really going to say the Republicans aren’t putting party over country?”

          They aren’t. They are putting policy first. They want this policy issue solved.

          “They have made it abundantly clear repealing the ACA is all they will do.”

          That is putting policy above country. The ACA is not what the public wants, and even Ron said he wants single payer. Starting from scratch, removing a 2,700 page bill, and making things work for the public is political? No. However, refusing to do anything but modify an existing bill you are saying is the only solution is political. Also, you have shifted. Originally you said the democrats were blocked out, you changed wording ever so slightly, I’ve noticed. You’re plainly shifting because you now know it isn’t true, and have to focus on the fact that the republicans are even trying to pass a bill despite having majorities and being elected in part to do so, you want to work with the unpopular bill, and if they don’t, they are obstructionists? I don’t think so.

          “They will allow no ideas from the Democrats, and they have done this I might add since they took back the House…”

          Wrong. And throwing my own words back at me doesn’t work, it’s actually really childish. I can list ones they have, kids on policy to 26, credits lowered for affluent earners, subsides being included, pre existing conditions. Aspects of healthcare.

        • July 28, 2017 at 4:23 pm
          bob says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 0

          “Democrats are obviously playing politics to curry public favor. Politics is politics after all.”

          Except when republicans try to actually pass bills, then it’s evil. Good double think!

          “Both sides do and have done this since time immemorial.”

          And somehow, while you now try false equivalency, you have been telling everyone they are the most ineffectual congress of all time, laughably. It’s all equal except when it isn’t eh? You’re laughably partisan. This again is arguing idealistically. The democrats and republicans aren’t taking the same actions here, though I admit there are similar aspects, the republicans are being absurdly accommodating. Repealing the ACA makes sense. Allowing what the republicans have, the same things I think are wrong with the ACA, DOESN’T. The issue here with the republican politics to me, is trying to play bi partisan politics when they don’t mean it. There, my criticism of republicans. Now, for the democrats, what they are doing is completely out of line. We need to get work done.

          “Republicans have been doing it since passage of the bill.”

          Incorrect.

          “Democrats are doing it with each CBO report showing where problems could arise with new bills being passed.”

          I noticed you left out that they refused to present any amendments, told their party not to help republicans with any bills that were not the ACA alterations, and publicly said they would not work with anyone, unless they got the bill that the people don’t want as it is. But you know…Double Think and all.

          “It is all politics, not sure why you are so incensed about it this time around,”

          This one again, why are you incensed about the supposed same actions from republicans? Perhaps because they aren’t the same and one of us is right, it’s not a matter of opinion. Given the actions taken from democrats, and the witch hunts with Russian spies, the constant negative reporting from the media, retractions based on inaccurate information, the political groups funding the Steele report to get a FISA on Trump people, and leaking that to the public, as well as many other things, I’m going with the structure right now that I fear, is the left. These are unusual. We don’t typically accuse many in a party of being guilty of conspiring with another country, aka Treason. That’s why I’m incensed about it, and watching the violence occurring form college educated professors and students? This will lead to a civil war. It is not ok. The right is definitively bending over backwards to end that. While Trump is extreme in commentary, that isn’t the issue.

          “since you surely won’t be next time it is Republicans playing the spoiler. (or if Democrats learn to shoot themselves in the foot like the GOP)”

          Making assumptions is all you have left? I’m not fair? Didn’t you just say I claimed the same thing? Hypocrite and double think much? If you’re not smart enough to debate politics, and you want to feel good about things, find another topic to be passionate on, perhaps philosophy, as that seems to be your thing. However, this isn’t.

      • July 28, 2017 at 2:07 pm
        bob says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 1
        Thumb down 1

        Seriously, and Rosenblatt if you’re reading this, look at the link!

        Even on MSNBC, it confirms exactly what I have been saying, and you guys keep saying “NO NO NO NOT TRUE!”. You’re going to have to admit I’m right. They have had interviews regarding this decision.

        “Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) Was Unable To Answer Why Democrats Were Unwilling To Come Together With Republicans To Create Compromise Legislation On Healthcare Reform. MSNBC’S SAM STEIN: “About a couple months ago, there was some talk, led primarily by Senator Bill Cassidy about putting together some sort of compromised legislation that obviously wouldn’t give Democrats what they wanted and wouldn’t be a full ‘repeal and replace’ of Obamacare. Democrats made the conscious decision to not partake in those talks. They said you have to take ‘repeal and replace’ fully off the table before we join the table. Was that a mistake? You might end up with a strictly Republican offered bill. You could have potentially had something that was far more moderate but you chose not to do it.” SEN. CLARE MCCASKILL (D-MO): “Well I’m not sure we would have had something far more moderate because there were not enough Republicans interested in avoiding the repeal and replace reality. So I’m not sure that was a viable alternative.” (MSNBC’s ” ”

        At the end she just literally tried again to blame republicans. Well, I’m not sure there was any interest in avoiding the repeal and replace, so we couldn’t offer something more viable. It’s phrasing differences. They are saying here they will not come to the table. Are you this stupid Doug?

        Really, I’m serious. I need to see some sort of concession on your end.

        I give them, as much as you people think I don’t. Show me you have half a brain.

      • July 28, 2017 at 2:11 pm
        bob says:
        Like or Dislike:
        Thumb up 1
        Thumb down 1

        Conceptually, any bill that truly seeks change as an alternative to the ACA, needs to involve repeal replace. Her comment removes any plan that can be better and moves instead to modifying a bill they misread, mislead regarding, and thought would reduce premiums by $2,500 per family. I think it’s safe to say they don’t know how, they don’t know their own bill, enough to get it to work.

        Repeal and replace is the only way to get a new bill. So what she said is, repealing and putting in a new bill is extreme, and the only moderate decision is to modify their bill.

        Which again, they don’t understand enough to estimate impacts and have lied about.

        Why the hell should we allow that precisely? Because you’re so idealistic you care more about who said what and who supposedly was shut out of what, more than process?

        I care about process, YOU care about idealistic crud and party over politics.

        It’s time to grow up and listen to those who know more than you.

        Stop with the cliché phrases. They are easy to spot.

        • July 28, 2017 at 4:07 pm
          Doug Fisher says:
          Like or Dislike:
          Thumb up 1
          Thumb down 1

          I am just going to stop responding to post after post of yours, basically all saying the same thing:

          “It’s not fair!”
          “I am so smart.”
          “You are actually stupid, although you think you are smart.”
          “Democrats are disingenuous and liars. Agree on this or you are also a liar and stupid.”
          “Did I mention how smart I am? Cause you aren’t…you dummy”

          Why would anyone entertain wasting their time with you?

          • July 28, 2017 at 4:12 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 1
            Thumb down 1

            “I am just going to stop responding to post after post of yours, basically all saying the same thing:
            “It’s not fair!”
            “I am so smart.”

            I am, but that’s not the point of me saying it. I’m saying it in defense of the right who you call ignorant science denying whack jobs who never use links, and then you rely on things like that to make your argument. As you just did.

            “You are actually stupid, although you think you are smart.”

            Same as above.

            “Democrats are disingenuous and liars. Agree on this or you are also a liar and stupid.”

            With specific events? Yes. You can’t keep spouting nonsense, and no, I have not say agree they are a liar or you’re stupid, I said agree they have not been shut out, or you’re stupid. You’re again focusing on idealistic nonsense, instead of actual scenarios. I might add, calling that stupid, is reasonable and makes sense. I suppose the whole world should stop calling people more or less stupid, this would include you. You phrase it differently, but you say the same things. However, I’m not for that, because I’m a better person than you, and I earned that, and moreover, because I allow you to speak how you will, however, I do not allow you to adjust facts and refuse to admit when you’re wrong. I have done so, I can prove it, you haven’t, and you went full baby mode. Go to your safe space.

            “Did I mention how smart I am? Cause you aren’t…you dummy”

            See above, fool.

            Why would anyone entertain wasting their time with you?”

            Ah yes, the whole I’ll not waste my time, and label those who disagree with me, and stay in my own bubble, then tell everyone that all conservatives who I refuse to allow into this bubble don’t exist!

            Wonderful!

          • July 28, 2017 at 7:30 pm
            bob says:
            Like or Dislike:
            Thumb up 0
            Thumb down 1

            ” then tell everyone that all conservatives who I refuse to allow into this bubble don’t exist!”

            This is referring to conservatives who use links like me. You have clearly said they don’t exist to any large degree. Except when Integrity does it. And I do it. Or others you start saying things like “they are talking to themselves!” essentially because you ignore them so much.

            This is exactly what led to Trump. People who were sick of this, and you’re going to double down on this abhorrent behavior? If Trump doesn’t end up being what I think, and I don’t like him, you bear a lot of the responsibility I voted for him if he does damage. This behavior sickens me. You have zero self reflection of what you and your type has done to conservatives. We’re gay hating, black hating, science hating, hypocrite Christians, and then we get torn to shreds. Let me show you one of your own, when she did something they thought was conservative:

            Cassie Jay.

            She may well switch sides, simply from seeing what happened when people saw her do something, they assumed she was sexist, and swarmed around her like the sickening locust plague that they are.

            This disgust right now, it’s not because of people like Trump. It’s from years of talking pretty while being sleazy controlling brats.

            My kind, young conservatives, are active, and we may well win over the youth. If we are wrong, you better start arguing facts, or we are doomed. If we are right or wrong, for the sake of morality, you better treat us like humans, and not a basket of deplorables like your sickening rejected leader. That was what was rejected. Quit putting us in boxes and labeling us as people who want people to die in regards to healthcare. It’s insanely rude, and I cannot fathom how you don’t EXPECT push back. It’s because you morons are used to harassing people all the time on that basis, and AGAIN this is why Trump won.

            Knock it off, or you’ll see push back. It’s that simple. It’s time to debate numbers without calling someone a genocidal bigoted hateful science denier, who are far left fascist types. It’s not ok.

  • July 28, 2017 at 7:53 pm
    Doug Fisher says:
    Like or Dislike:
    Thumb up 1
    Thumb down 0

    Wait…did you just insinuate it would be okay for your daughter to be anti-gay if it was because of religious beliefs?

    I realize my intellect pales in comparison to yours, but I just want to make sure you meant that.

    Absolutely anyone should feel intense shame and discomfort at being anti-gay.

    If your religious values correlate with you being anti-gay, then your religion is garbage, full stop.

    I am a Christian. I go to church weekly. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I also believe that humanity does not exist within the bubble and confines of my religious beliefs. Being anti-gay is being anti-human.

    Just because seeing two gay people with rings on their fingers makes you sweat nervously about that time you had a bit too much to drink in college doesn’t make their relationship any less real than the relationship you had with your ex-wife.



Add a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*