The only question in this claim is how much. A driver who was found guilty of vehicular manslaughter leads one to believe that there was not much leg to stand on. Surprised that Liberty even had coverage on Wal Mart Auto. They were probably self insured for many millions and Liberty had some excess on it.
I understand this might have been a tactic for other means not referenced in the article, but excess carriers have the right to investigate whether payments were reasonable and justified, right?
Can someone with Excess Commercial Lines knowledge help me understand — just because you’re an excess carrier does not mean you are automatically liable to reimburse excessive payouts made by the primary carrier, right?
The Walmart driver hit the wrong person at the wrong time. Entertainers are high earners so we knew it would be in the millions right from the start. Walmart has a small legion of attorney’s. It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall listening to negotiations and claims attorney’s from Liberty Mutual Group on this tragic accident.
I agree Agent, but I fail to see how your reply answers my question regarding excess carriers having the right to question if excessive payouts were made.
Rosenblatt, you are just full of questions, aren’t you? How about you finding someone experienced in this type of negotiation and ask him? It is obviously a complicated claim with consequences. Don’t think you will find many high dollar Claims Managers that will respond to you on this forum. Do your own research and report back to us. Ready, set, go.
Agent – what’s with the attitude? Did I run over your dog?
I WAS asking someone experienced with these kinds of claims — in the comment section of an insurance website. Let me try again.
Can someone with Excess Commercial Lines knowledge help me understand — just because you’re an excess carrier does not mean you are automatically liable to reimburse excessive payouts made by the primary carrier, right?
If you can’t answer my question Agent, please do not respond. Thank you in advance for keeping this thread on-topic and insult-free.
August 10, 2017 at 1:29 pm
Godot says:
Like or Dislike:
5
0
Get in a good mood, Agent…try to be pleasant.
August 10, 2017 at 5:57 pm
integrity matters says:
Like or Dislike:
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Rosenblatt,
It really comes down to the language of the excess liability contract. They can vary to some extent when it comes to the settlement of claims.
Given their size, Walmart likely assumes through an SIR or Large deductible, a sizeable amount of risk. Financial responsibility laws vary by state, but they are large enough that they should be eligible to self insure at least the primary layer of $1MM.
Assuming they self insure the first $5-10MM, they would have purchased various excess layers. Each layer would typically have language stating that layer will not be attached until the underlying limits have been exhausted (all of this most of you already know). The Conditions will dictate the involvement of each excess carrier with regards to settlement and most have “notification” and “right to defend or assume defense” clauses.
What seems odd is that Liberty Mutual should have been involved in the settlement process, especially given the publicity of this loss, unless their language or someone on their counsel gave Walmart authority to settle within their limit.
Another possibility is that Walmart self insures additional layers “above” the Liberty Mutual limit and Liberty wanted to make sure that the settlement offer wasn’t excessive to simply keep it from going to trial and potential piercing that limit.
Great question, though. It would be interesting to see how Walmart has structured the financing of their risk.
August 9, 2017 at 1:50 pm
UW says:
Like or Dislike:
3
3
As always, Agent can’t contribute anything to the comments. In a case like this the excess co has the “right and duty” to defend against any suit, so generally if they thought it would be a high payout the lawyers from the excess companies would be involved, but practically they receive updates from the Walmart lawyers. In some high profile cases like this I’ve seen the lead and lower excess pay and then other payments from the insured and other parties to the suits outside of insurance payments.
In this case I would expect most to be insurance payments because of Walmart’s business model. They are known for having relatively few warehouses, instead using their trucks and cross-docking, so my guess would be they have incredibly high auto/trucking limits in addition to their excess limits and it wouldn’t be worth it for insurers to fight going to a high profile trial they are going to lose. If Walmart said they were going to throw in $X million the insurers would probably agree to a settlement.
Agent doesn’t seem to know a whole lot about these cases, but even excess policy limits of $25-50M are fairly common, even when it’s 1 person who isn’t famous.
That is Agent’s M.O., though. It doesn’t need to be ours. Let’s rise above and ignore him when he turns to trolling (which is probably >95% of his posts)
Agent, Yogi, and bob are not worth responding too unless the stars align and they are actually making a comment worthy of discussion.
integrity matters, JAX Agent *(usually :P) and other conservatives are actually looking to converse, add to the discussion, and get their true feelings/beliefs/assertions across.
I have to disagree, but maybe you haven’t interacted with them enough to see their racist comments smears, attacks on liberals as a group, etc. You can interact with them as you want, and I will do the same.
Late to the discussion, from what I understand Walmart attorneys or their TPAs settled the case with out notifying the excess carriers which did not allow them to participate in the negotiations. So the excess carriers were trying to deny payment on late reporting of the claim. I understand Zurich participated on some layer of excess, this claim prompted them to pull out of the large fleet transportation market altogether.
The only question in this claim is how much. A driver who was found guilty of vehicular manslaughter leads one to believe that there was not much leg to stand on. Surprised that Liberty even had coverage on Wal Mart Auto. They were probably self insured for many millions and Liberty had some excess on it.
It is true that Tracy Morgan is performing again, but he is not the same as before the accident. This is a very sad case.
I understand this might have been a tactic for other means not referenced in the article, but excess carriers have the right to investigate whether payments were reasonable and justified, right?
Can someone with Excess Commercial Lines knowledge help me understand — just because you’re an excess carrier does not mean you are automatically liable to reimburse excessive payouts made by the primary carrier, right?
The Walmart driver hit the wrong person at the wrong time. Entertainers are high earners so we knew it would be in the millions right from the start. Walmart has a small legion of attorney’s. It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall listening to negotiations and claims attorney’s from Liberty Mutual Group on this tragic accident.
14 hours of driving allowed per day by a driver is obscene. Even had this driver not been awake for an entire day, that number is astronomical.
I agree Agent, but I fail to see how your reply answers my question regarding excess carriers having the right to question if excessive payouts were made.
Rosenblatt, you are just full of questions, aren’t you? How about you finding someone experienced in this type of negotiation and ask him? It is obviously a complicated claim with consequences. Don’t think you will find many high dollar Claims Managers that will respond to you on this forum. Do your own research and report back to us. Ready, set, go.
Agent – what’s with the attitude? Did I run over your dog?
I WAS asking someone experienced with these kinds of claims — in the comment section of an insurance website. Let me try again.
Can someone with Excess Commercial Lines knowledge help me understand — just because you’re an excess carrier does not mean you are automatically liable to reimburse excessive payouts made by the primary carrier, right?
If you can’t answer my question Agent, please do not respond. Thank you in advance for keeping this thread on-topic and insult-free.
Get in a good mood, Agent…try to be pleasant.
Rosenblatt,
It really comes down to the language of the excess liability contract. They can vary to some extent when it comes to the settlement of claims.
Given their size, Walmart likely assumes through an SIR or Large deductible, a sizeable amount of risk. Financial responsibility laws vary by state, but they are large enough that they should be eligible to self insure at least the primary layer of $1MM.
Assuming they self insure the first $5-10MM, they would have purchased various excess layers. Each layer would typically have language stating that layer will not be attached until the underlying limits have been exhausted (all of this most of you already know). The Conditions will dictate the involvement of each excess carrier with regards to settlement and most have “notification” and “right to defend or assume defense” clauses.
What seems odd is that Liberty Mutual should have been involved in the settlement process, especially given the publicity of this loss, unless their language or someone on their counsel gave Walmart authority to settle within their limit.
Another possibility is that Walmart self insures additional layers “above” the Liberty Mutual limit and Liberty wanted to make sure that the settlement offer wasn’t excessive to simply keep it from going to trial and potential piercing that limit.
Great question, though. It would be interesting to see how Walmart has structured the financing of their risk.
As always, Agent can’t contribute anything to the comments. In a case like this the excess co has the “right and duty” to defend against any suit, so generally if they thought it would be a high payout the lawyers from the excess companies would be involved, but practically they receive updates from the Walmart lawyers. In some high profile cases like this I’ve seen the lead and lower excess pay and then other payments from the insured and other parties to the suits outside of insurance payments.
In this case I would expect most to be insurance payments because of Walmart’s business model. They are known for having relatively few warehouses, instead using their trucks and cross-docking, so my guess would be they have incredibly high auto/trucking limits in addition to their excess limits and it wouldn’t be worth it for insurers to fight going to a high profile trial they are going to lose. If Walmart said they were going to throw in $X million the insurers would probably agree to a settlement.
Agent doesn’t seem to know a whole lot about these cases, but even excess policy limits of $25-50M are fairly common, even when it’s 1 person who isn’t famous.
UW – Agent was wrong to snap back at Rosenblatt. Was it really necessary for you to belittle him with your comment?
Take a lesson from Godot who called him out without making it personal. You can also take his/her advice and “try to be pleasant”.
Agent attacks in his moronic response, yet you don’t comment on that in your long response. Just spewing nonstop BS.
That is Agent’s M.O., though. It doesn’t need to be ours. Let’s rise above and ignore him when he turns to trolling (which is probably >95% of his posts)
Agent, Yogi, and bob are not worth responding too unless the stars align and they are actually making a comment worthy of discussion.
integrity matters, JAX Agent *(usually :P) and other conservatives are actually looking to converse, add to the discussion, and get their true feelings/beliefs/assertions across.
I have to disagree, but maybe you haven’t interacted with them enough to see their racist comments smears, attacks on liberals as a group, etc. You can interact with them as you want, and I will do the same.
Late to the discussion, from what I understand Walmart attorneys or their TPAs settled the case with out notifying the excess carriers which did not allow them to participate in the negotiations. So the excess carriers were trying to deny payment on late reporting of the claim. I understand Zurich participated on some layer of excess, this claim prompted them to pull out of the large fleet transportation market altogether.