Typical. You put down others that take FEMA money in LA, MS, FL, NJ & NY, but when it comes to TX you have your hand out faster than anyone. You talk the talk, but you don’t walk the walk. You want to secede from the nation? This would be a perfect time to start!
All you right-wingers begrudge anyone getting a “hand-out” from the government. It’s as if you think giving food to someone else is taking it right out of your mouth. No-one is taking anything away from you greedy pigs, but we all have to pay taxes to keep our country running. If you don’t want to do that – SECEDE!!! Please!!
Libby you sure are bitter and hateful, maybe you need a vacation.
June 14, 2013 at 11:49 am
Libby says:
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Not bitter. Not hateful. Just sick and tired of all the stereotyping and bellyaching from your side on who gets FEMA, food stamps, medicaid. Not to mention all the Obama hate spewing forth. Whenever I try to point out that other republican administrations have done the same exact thing (or worse,) all of a sudden I’m bitter, hateful and irrelevant. I’m just tired of it. If it weren’t for all the hate spewing forth from your side, I would probably agree with some of what you say. But it’s so over the top, I just can’t take it anymore.
June 14, 2013 at 4:08 pm
Libby says:
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And don’t get me started on the hypocrisy…
June 18, 2013 at 6:49 pm
bob says:
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I am in no mood to listen to you complain about stereo typing.
Live a day in a republican’s shoes. You wouldn’t last.
Further to the point: Us republicans who complain on similar issues with Obama (like the patriot act) complain that you support Obama and damned Bush W for it. The repbulicans don’t have much of a problem with the patriot act, myself included. That’s just one example. Yet you’re mad that we damned Obama for resigning it. We damned him because he ran on being different. He acted like it was a big deal and you guys on the left ate it up. Then when he didn’t close Gitmo (second example) and it turned out a Gitmo detainee gave info that led to Osama’s death, you suddenly go oh yeah yeah, those are good things now. Everything he ran against he’s not running for. All things your side condemned. All things we did not condemn. We don’t want Gitmo closed on the right.
So one of us is a hypocrite, and one is not in politics.
And the one who is? Is obvious. Do I need to list more examples?
I’ve refrained from posting because you guys all have started to become like broken records. I haven’t heard anything new.
Here is something new from me: I have changed my mind on Romney and am glad he is not in office for one reason:
Syria.
Have you heard for example Libby that we are actually considering arming Al Quieda rebels who have teamed up with Syria rebels against Assad? Assad may have used chemical weapons, but he is defending his nation against terrorists that we ourselves fought.
And now we have both democrats and republicans talking about either killing Assad and over turning the whole country (on the right), or arming Al Quieda (on the left) I’m sorry to say I don’t like either options but in this scenario I’m a hell of a lot more pissed off at the right for it. I swear to God if we fight a country because Al Quieda was smart enough to ally with rebels and get us into a battle with a country who should not be an enemy, I will kick someone’s ass on the right side of the aisle. I don’t care whose ass it is.
June 19, 2013 at 9:12 am
Libby says:
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“Live a day in a Republican’s shoes??” What is that supposed to mean? And there you go stereotyping me and lumping me in with “all the liberals.” I am against the Patriot Act and am upset that Obama extended it. I am against Gitmo. I am against both overturning Syria & supplying arms to Al Quada. I think we need to focus on our own problems before trying to be the world police. I pay too many taxes and would like a bigger say as to where the money goes. I am tired of people with their hands out. I am a proponent of universal healthcare. I have many right wing ideals. I just never get them out on IJ because everyone is so busy bashing Obama &/or me, it’s all I can do to keep up and respond. The reason I bring up Bush so much is because his administration did just as many negative things as Obama’s but everyone just pretends it never happened. I feel I have to remind everyone there has been graft, corruption, incompetence, and deceit on BOTH sides of the aisle. The Dems do not have a monopoly on any of it.
June 19, 2013 at 10:32 am
Libby says:
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Oh! And Bob, you’ll be happy to know:
For the first time since 2005, George W. Bush has a higher favorable rating than an unfavorable one, according to a poll.
George W. Bush is having a revival. A Gallup Poll has found more Americans giving the president a favorable rating than an unfavorable one, for the first time since 2005.
Forty-nine percent of respondents viewed the president favorably, while 46 percent viewed him unfavorably. That’s up from 40 percent who viewed him favorably and 59 percent unfavorably when he left office in 2009.
June 19, 2013 at 7:40 pm
bob says:
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Libby,
I mean that you have not one idea how much republicans are insulted in youth by the overwhelming super majority the youth has in being liberal. It’s 66% when it comes to college students. They don’t really survey high school students. I’m betting that is 70%.
During this election cycle we were accused of killing the elderly, starving the children, racism (despite the fact that we made a civil rights bill 7 years before Kennedy, and more of us voted for the 1964 civil rights bill as a percentage) being against women for being for the child (we also got women the right to vote) robbing the elderly, being about corporate greed, etc. What I mean by don’t complain to me about being stereo typed, no one, no one, is stereo typed more than republicans. When you finally get the way the world really is, you’ll understand how much your side has completely mistreated the republicans. Side note:
“All you right-wingers begrudge anyone getting a “hand-out” from the government. It’s as if you think giving food to someone else is taking it right out of your mouth” Is a stereo type Libby. You have no numbers in that comment.
Now on to patriot act and gitmo:
I’m aware of your stance. You were trying to imply in a recent forum that all of us who go against Obama in the right supported it for Bush. I gave examples of items that we supported for Bush, and insulted Obama for. We insulted him for closing Gitmo, we insulted him for the patriot act. The patriot act of the two is the one you referenced in the recent post Libby. I was telling you that most republicans are not against it, therefore we can’t be contradicting ourselves. You stereo-typed in that post by stating that republicans were contradictory I might add.
Stop with the facade. It’s really quite annoying. Wake up and stop being lead on.
Sign up for the democrat campaign emails, and tell me those emails are not damn right insane.
I’ve seen your campaign emails. Not only did they have the 2011 lie of the year award, they also included beyonce, Jay Zee, (think the young stupid crowd is who they are targeting? You’re in sales, think about what type of person targets like that) and then they go on to make such bold claims it’s insane.
They claimed that job growth if we didn’t do the sequestor in May would have been 140,000 less per month. We had 145,000 jobs in May. We had 140,000 in 2012. Add the numbers. Are we to believe that suddenly the numbers being the same means we should have had 140,000 more this year? The fact is the sequestor did nothing. This same item in emails the democrats said that millions of kids and seniors would go without a hot meal. My GOD. The emotional twist, and the out right lies, and the labels, and the accusations of what us republicans supposedly “do” would make you jump off a cliff. You say how tired you are.
You’re crazy to say it’s worse for you than a republican. Crazy.
June 13, 2013 at 5:24 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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Obama said he would stand with the people and he did. Now the rich crooks in the Texas government want more. FEMA did their part and then some, considering that this was a man-made, peventable disaster. If anyone should pay for this, it should be those responsible for it. Yes, this was no doubt coming (Perry wanting another free handout).
draetish, our Commander in Chief and one of the most brilliant Presidents in history said he would make sure to speed aid to Monroe ???, Oklahoma to help them rebuild after the tornado. To his credit, he did do a flyover of the area on his way to West.
This was a man made disaster, not a natural diaster. I feel sorry for the folks of West who are going through this — but unfortunately they are paying the price for Texas pride in touting regulations favorable to business and industry — such as only requiring $1 million liabiilty limits and no zoning to prevent homes and schools from being built around an existing fertilizer plant — then the city of West needs to look to Gov. Perry and the state of Texas for assistance to rebuild.
Did nobody have insurance with Sandy? FEMA was all over that to get aid to the victims. By the way, the Oklahoma twister is a whole lot worse than West. FEMA has been delinquent helping Oklahomans so this loss is almost all insurance claims. I think West has a good deal of infrasture loss in West and that is not covered by standard insurance coverage.
On May 29, 2013, Property Claims Services (“PCS”) released its third re-survey of Superstorm Sandy insurance industry loss estimates based on information gathered from affected insurers. The updated loss estimate was $18.75 billion, which remains unchanged from PCS’s first and second re-survey loss estimates released in January and March 2013, respectively. PCS’s first loss estimate related to Superstorm Sandy, released in November 2012, was $11 billion.
Well, you might have insurance for “Additional Living Expenses” but if there are no hotels, motels, or restaurants open within miles where are you supposed to go? Not to mention no gas for your car to get there. That is what a true “disaster” is. The entire area was devastated. A little bit different than what happened in West. Besides, homeowners and property coverage should surely cover explosion for the surrounding homes and businesses.
June 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Libby says:
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I did not finish my thought. The whole area needed water, shelter, food and clothing and they needed it right away. That’s alot of what the $61B was for. Not to mention additional costs to get electricity, utilities and infrastructure back up and running.
June 13, 2013 at 4:38 pm
Celtica says:
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Perplexed: As Libby pointed out, it was to provide the basics of life with food, shelter and clothing. Going further, it was to provide infrastructure and clean up work in the region as a whole, not a small part of which was for city and local governments.
The infrastructure took a big smooshie.
June 13, 2013 at 4:42 pm
Celtica says:
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Perplexed:
Damage to Building schools and homes built next to a fertilizer plant is a foreseeable event.
Tornadoes Hurricanes are foreseeable events but not to specific locations.
June 13, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Don't Call Me Shirley says:
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Sandy was not a man-made disaster. Big difference. Why should the American taxpayers pay for the negligence and corruption of Boss Hog and Sheriff Roscoe in Texas?
You’ve never made a moderate comment on this page. Your Obama trash is on here far too often.
Draetish is quite a bit more independant than you. So don’t call him a drone.
June 14, 2013 at 8:53 am
Libby says:
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Finally! You are right draetish. You don’t NEED them. That’s why you’re not getting them. But you WANT them. Big difference. Go start your own country and quit your whining on IJ.
Sandy, your statement is incorrect – unless of course the Boss Hogg and Sheriff Roscoe you speak of are federal regulators. The fertilizer plant has not been found to be negligent as they were meeting approved guidelines for the storage of these chemicals. The fault is with the federal agency in charge of establishing these guidelines. Several university professors whose areas of expertise are in this field expressed suggestions that may have prevented this tragedy but, stated that the plant was in compliance.
West Fertilizer Co.’s problems complying with Texas environmental rules go back decades, state records show.
In 1984, the company moved two large pressurized tanks of liquid anyhydrous ammonia, a potentially lethal poison, from a site in nearby Hill County to its current location in West without notifying state authorities.
Seven years passed before Texas regulators took notice and told the company to fix its paperwork. The tanks had sat at their new location, near homes, schools and a nursing home, with little or no state oversight for all that time.
Please READ the entire DMN article because it states the following: “Texas officials said the Office of the Texas State Chemist, which regulates fertilizer, visited the company 12 times in 2012 and found no problems with the management of its material.” Note that federal regulators have not written up the plant for violations in years. We can agreed that this facility had problems in the past – 1984!!! There are hundreds of facilities across the US that store these chemicals the same way there are in West, Texas. That is a problem because government regulators – mainly federal – have both lax regulations and don’t do an adequate job of enforcing those regulations. This tragedy could have happened in any farming community in the US. There have been numerous suggestions to improve the storage regulations for these chemicals but, the government has not acted on them. Maybe they will now. In the meantime, Obama should not have promised the city of West help with rebuilding their schools and intrastructure and them back down on what he said.
Show me where he “promised the city of West help with rebuilding their schools and intrastructure.” He said he “would help them rebuild their town.”
As of Wednesday, FEMA said the agency and the U.S. Small Business Administration had approved more than $7 million in aid and low-interest loans to West residents impacted by the blast. FEMA also is paying 75 percent of the costs of debris removal and will reimburse the state and the municipality for the initial emergency response.
Is that not helping? What the heck do you people want? Doesn’t the town and it’s citizens and businesses carry property insurance? Why is it necessary to bring in government aid.
Again, this is not a “natural” disaster, ie. hurricane, tornado, tsunami, wildfire and how many people were truely displaced? Most residents returned home in 2 days and they had limited access to running water, electricity, etc.
“would help them rebuild their town” pretty much references the help with schools and intrastructure as any private or commercial property should have had insurance. Many if not most school districts and municipal governments in the US self insure with the help of reinsurance. The damaged schools were probably originally built with some federal government aid program. The city of West never should have allowed schools and housing to be build so close to the fertilizer plant as it was there first. Like any school district or town they should have a plan in the event the damage was caused by natural or other disaster. I live near West and yes, the town could have expanded in other directions. If Obama had simply expressed sympathy for the town of West without offering help to rebuild I would be OK with that. However, Obama got political points for his initial remarks of helping to rebuild – that’s were changing his mind later creates a problem with me.
June 17, 2013 at 11:59 am
Libby says:
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Number 1 Kent, he didn’t “change his mind.” FEMA has helped. $7M worth, plus help with clean-up and debris removal. That is plenty of help in this situation. It was not a disaster, and as such, should not be treated like one. If the school district self-insured and now can’t afford their program, well shame on them. Not the American people’s problem. Let the state step in. After all, they’re the ones that allowed the plant to operate with only $1M insurance. Now you want federal government assistance? I don’t think so.
June 14, 2013 at 9:34 pm
Celtica says:
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Dear KentU:
The plant exploded. Obviously, there was an issue with materials management.
Celtica, we both agree with what you just stated. Everybody has been concerned about the ammonium nitrate (which we should) but, the problem at the West plant was the method and/or location of the anhydrous ammonia which caused a combusion explosion – not a chemical explosion. Anhydrous ammonia gas is to be stored at a temperature of minus 38 degrees farenheit – which it was in West. A fire broke out in a building close to the anhydrous ammonia tanks – the tanks heated up causing the gas to expand and eventually the tanks exploded – like putting too much air in a car tire. A number of independent engineers in this field have expressed surprise as to why neither federal nor state regulations require better security and safer distances from building with fire potential for these chemicals. The West plant wasn’t written up for violating these problems because current regulations don’t include these safetly measures. Hopefully, the West tragedy will cause regulators to get more strict with their rules as this problem exists in many other similar facities.
June 17, 2013 at 11:56 am
Agent says:
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Where was OSHA? It is supposed to be the agency that is in charge of Occupational Health & Safety. They are supposed to inspect plants, write up deficiencies and fine a company for non-compliance. Sounds to me like they fell down on the job.
The Associated Press also did a story on FEMA’s decision and including a very interesting fact that were not mentioned in the Bloomberg story. Courtesy of the AP:
“It’s not unusual for FEMA to turn down that level of assistance for emergencies not stemming from natural disasters. In 2010, for example, officials denied a request for millions in aid after a gas pipeline explosion that consumed a Northern California neighborhood.”
Libby, only a Blue State will turn down free aid due to union rules. In NJ after Sandy, electrical workers were sent from Alabama to help restore electricity. They were told by the Brotherhood of Electrical Workers that because they weren’t unionized, they could head on back home. I am sure the power was out a lot longer because of union actions. I am told by relatives that many came in from other states to help the victims in the Oklahoma tornado disaster and none were turned away. They were grateful to have the help to clear debris, provide food and water. One guy came from Joplin, Mo to help because he was helped by Oklahomans when Joplin had their tragedy.
Not sure where the mean spirited Boss Hog and Sheriff Roscoe comment came from. Why do certain elements of society and political spectrum turn to name calling and marginalization?
You need to look no further than Don’t call me Shirley, Celtica or Libby to find the most mean spirited comments on this site. I am really surprised they didn’t blame GW on this explosion since he lives about 100 miles away and we all know it is his fault no matter what happens.
That’s good for a laugh this afternooon, Agent. You are one of the meanest on this blog with your constant insults to me. Like I got dropped on my head, or I was deprived of oxygen so am braindead. I could go on, but the list is too long.
This was the fert plant’s fault, not a natural disaster. Awfully American of FEMA to lend a hand anyhow. They didn’t have to do that. The plant is responsible and was severly underinsured. Given my experience in the agribusiness line, they probably saw the high insurance premiums as a major hit to their bottom line. Not smart stewardship given the height of the risks associated with their operations. Now, it’s a tragedy for many.
Exactly! Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I guess it must have been those liberal, Democrat, 47%-er, blue-state, progrssive, CNN-watching, Rachel Maddow-loving, Obama-tron,..oh, wait a minute.
Yep, no doubt this was coming, just another lie from Obama. I bet if it happened anywhere but Texas FEMA would step in.
Typical. You put down others that take FEMA money in LA, MS, FL, NJ & NY, but when it comes to TX you have your hand out faster than anyone. You talk the talk, but you don’t walk the walk. You want to secede from the nation? This would be a perfect time to start!
Libby I have never commented on a FEMA issue and if I have, please copy and paste. You are a hater!
All you right-wingers begrudge anyone getting a “hand-out” from the government. It’s as if you think giving food to someone else is taking it right out of your mouth. No-one is taking anything away from you greedy pigs, but we all have to pay taxes to keep our country running. If you don’t want to do that – SECEDE!!! Please!!
Libby you sure are bitter and hateful, maybe you need a vacation.
Not bitter. Not hateful. Just sick and tired of all the stereotyping and bellyaching from your side on who gets FEMA, food stamps, medicaid. Not to mention all the Obama hate spewing forth. Whenever I try to point out that other republican administrations have done the same exact thing (or worse,) all of a sudden I’m bitter, hateful and irrelevant. I’m just tired of it. If it weren’t for all the hate spewing forth from your side, I would probably agree with some of what you say. But it’s so over the top, I just can’t take it anymore.
And don’t get me started on the hypocrisy…
I am in no mood to listen to you complain about stereo typing.
Live a day in a republican’s shoes. You wouldn’t last.
Further to the point: Us republicans who complain on similar issues with Obama (like the patriot act) complain that you support Obama and damned Bush W for it. The repbulicans don’t have much of a problem with the patriot act, myself included. That’s just one example. Yet you’re mad that we damned Obama for resigning it. We damned him because he ran on being different. He acted like it was a big deal and you guys on the left ate it up. Then when he didn’t close Gitmo (second example) and it turned out a Gitmo detainee gave info that led to Osama’s death, you suddenly go oh yeah yeah, those are good things now. Everything he ran against he’s not running for. All things your side condemned. All things we did not condemn. We don’t want Gitmo closed on the right.
So one of us is a hypocrite, and one is not in politics.
And the one who is? Is obvious. Do I need to list more examples?
I’ve refrained from posting because you guys all have started to become like broken records. I haven’t heard anything new.
Here is something new from me: I have changed my mind on Romney and am glad he is not in office for one reason:
Syria.
Have you heard for example Libby that we are actually considering arming Al Quieda rebels who have teamed up with Syria rebels against Assad? Assad may have used chemical weapons, but he is defending his nation against terrorists that we ourselves fought.
And now we have both democrats and republicans talking about either killing Assad and over turning the whole country (on the right), or arming Al Quieda (on the left) I’m sorry to say I don’t like either options but in this scenario I’m a hell of a lot more pissed off at the right for it. I swear to God if we fight a country because Al Quieda was smart enough to ally with rebels and get us into a battle with a country who should not be an enemy, I will kick someone’s ass on the right side of the aisle. I don’t care whose ass it is.
“Live a day in a Republican’s shoes??” What is that supposed to mean? And there you go stereotyping me and lumping me in with “all the liberals.” I am against the Patriot Act and am upset that Obama extended it. I am against Gitmo. I am against both overturning Syria & supplying arms to Al Quada. I think we need to focus on our own problems before trying to be the world police. I pay too many taxes and would like a bigger say as to where the money goes. I am tired of people with their hands out. I am a proponent of universal healthcare. I have many right wing ideals. I just never get them out on IJ because everyone is so busy bashing Obama &/or me, it’s all I can do to keep up and respond. The reason I bring up Bush so much is because his administration did just as many negative things as Obama’s but everyone just pretends it never happened. I feel I have to remind everyone there has been graft, corruption, incompetence, and deceit on BOTH sides of the aisle. The Dems do not have a monopoly on any of it.
Oh! And Bob, you’ll be happy to know:
For the first time since 2005, George W. Bush has a higher favorable rating than an unfavorable one, according to a poll.
George W. Bush is having a revival. A Gallup Poll has found more Americans giving the president a favorable rating than an unfavorable one, for the first time since 2005.
Forty-nine percent of respondents viewed the president favorably, while 46 percent viewed him unfavorably. That’s up from 40 percent who viewed him favorably and 59 percent unfavorably when he left office in 2009.
Libby,
I mean that you have not one idea how much republicans are insulted in youth by the overwhelming super majority the youth has in being liberal. It’s 66% when it comes to college students. They don’t really survey high school students. I’m betting that is 70%.
During this election cycle we were accused of killing the elderly, starving the children, racism (despite the fact that we made a civil rights bill 7 years before Kennedy, and more of us voted for the 1964 civil rights bill as a percentage) being against women for being for the child (we also got women the right to vote) robbing the elderly, being about corporate greed, etc. What I mean by don’t complain to me about being stereo typed, no one, no one, is stereo typed more than republicans. When you finally get the way the world really is, you’ll understand how much your side has completely mistreated the republicans. Side note:
“All you right-wingers begrudge anyone getting a “hand-out” from the government. It’s as if you think giving food to someone else is taking it right out of your mouth” Is a stereo type Libby. You have no numbers in that comment.
Now on to patriot act and gitmo:
I’m aware of your stance. You were trying to imply in a recent forum that all of us who go against Obama in the right supported it for Bush. I gave examples of items that we supported for Bush, and insulted Obama for. We insulted him for closing Gitmo, we insulted him for the patriot act. The patriot act of the two is the one you referenced in the recent post Libby. I was telling you that most republicans are not against it, therefore we can’t be contradicting ourselves. You stereo-typed in that post by stating that republicans were contradictory I might add.
Stop with the facade. It’s really quite annoying. Wake up and stop being lead on.
Sign up for the democrat campaign emails, and tell me those emails are not damn right insane.
I’ve seen your campaign emails. Not only did they have the 2011 lie of the year award, they also included beyonce, Jay Zee, (think the young stupid crowd is who they are targeting? You’re in sales, think about what type of person targets like that) and then they go on to make such bold claims it’s insane.
They claimed that job growth if we didn’t do the sequestor in May would have been 140,000 less per month. We had 145,000 jobs in May. We had 140,000 in 2012. Add the numbers. Are we to believe that suddenly the numbers being the same means we should have had 140,000 more this year? The fact is the sequestor did nothing. This same item in emails the democrats said that millions of kids and seniors would go without a hot meal. My GOD. The emotional twist, and the out right lies, and the labels, and the accusations of what us republicans supposedly “do” would make you jump off a cliff. You say how tired you are.
You’re crazy to say it’s worse for you than a republican. Crazy.
Obama said he would stand with the people and he did. Now the rich crooks in the Texas government want more. FEMA did their part and then some, considering that this was a man-made, peventable disaster. If anyone should pay for this, it should be those responsible for it. Yes, this was no doubt coming (Perry wanting another free handout).
“Dan Watson, a FEMA spokesman, said FEMA and the Small Business Administration provided more than $7 million….”
FEMA already spent money in West. Why are you implying they have done nothing?
draetish, our Commander in Chief and one of the most brilliant Presidents in history said he would make sure to speed aid to Monroe ???, Oklahoma to help them rebuild after the tornado. To his credit, he did do a flyover of the area on his way to West.
Must be nice to be so perfect and never make a mistake, Agent. You’ll have to let us know how it feels.
This was a man made disaster, not a natural diaster. I feel sorry for the folks of West who are going through this — but unfortunately they are paying the price for Texas pride in touting regulations favorable to business and industry — such as only requiring $1 million liabiilty limits and no zoning to prevent homes and schools from being built around an existing fertilizer plant — then the city of West needs to look to Gov. Perry and the state of Texas for assistance to rebuild.
nobody had insurance??…
Did nobody have insurance with Sandy? FEMA was all over that to get aid to the victims. By the way, the Oklahoma twister is a whole lot worse than West. FEMA has been delinquent helping Oklahomans so this loss is almost all insurance claims. I think West has a good deal of infrasture loss in West and that is not covered by standard insurance coverage.
Yes, people had insurance during Sandy. Lots of it.
http://www.martindale.com/insurance-law/article_Edwards-Wildman-Palmer-LLP_1822488.htm
On May 29, 2013, Property Claims Services (“PCS”) released its third re-survey of Superstorm Sandy insurance industry loss estimates based on information gathered from affected insurers. The updated loss estimate was $18.75 billion, which remains unchanged from PCS’s first and second re-survey loss estimates released in January and March 2013, respectively. PCS’s first loss estimate related to Superstorm Sandy, released in November 2012, was $11 billion.
Celtica Yes there was insurance available to pay a lot of the Sandy claims. Why did the government need to give them $61B in additional aid?
Well, you might have insurance for “Additional Living Expenses” but if there are no hotels, motels, or restaurants open within miles where are you supposed to go? Not to mention no gas for your car to get there. That is what a true “disaster” is. The entire area was devastated. A little bit different than what happened in West. Besides, homeowners and property coverage should surely cover explosion for the surrounding homes and businesses.
I did not finish my thought. The whole area needed water, shelter, food and clothing and they needed it right away. That’s alot of what the $61B was for. Not to mention additional costs to get electricity, utilities and infrastructure back up and running.
Perplexed: As Libby pointed out, it was to provide the basics of life with food, shelter and clothing. Going further, it was to provide infrastructure and clean up work in the region as a whole, not a small part of which was for city and local governments.
The infrastructure took a big smooshie.
Perplexed:
Damage to Building schools and homes built next to a fertilizer plant is a foreseeable event.
Tornadoes Hurricanes are foreseeable events but not to specific locations.
Sandy was not a man-made disaster. Big difference. Why should the American taxpayers pay for the negligence and corruption of Boss Hog and Sheriff Roscoe in Texas?
Agent, it matters not, we can take care of our own. We don’t need hand-outs from Obama.
Yo, Draetish — if it matters not, then why did you start the thread? Or were you just getting your o’bama o’bash o’day out of your system?
Celitica,
You’ve never made a moderate comment on this page. Your Obama trash is on here far too often.
Draetish is quite a bit more independant than you. So don’t call him a drone.
Finally! You are right draetish. You don’t NEED them. That’s why you’re not getting them. But you WANT them. Big difference. Go start your own country and quit your whining on IJ.
Sandy, your statement is incorrect – unless of course the Boss Hogg and Sheriff Roscoe you speak of are federal regulators. The fertilizer plant has not been found to be negligent as they were meeting approved guidelines for the storage of these chemicals. The fault is with the federal agency in charge of establishing these guidelines. Several university professors whose areas of expertise are in this field expressed suggestions that may have prevented this tragedy but, stated that the plant was in compliance.
You mean except for the decades that they were out of compliance
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/west-explosion/headlines/20130422-west-fertilizer-co.s-environmental-compliance-problems-go-back-decades.ece
West Fertilizer Co.’s problems complying with Texas environmental rules go back decades, state records show.
In 1984, the company moved two large pressurized tanks of liquid anyhydrous ammonia, a potentially lethal poison, from a site in nearby Hill County to its current location in West without notifying state authorities.
Seven years passed before Texas regulators took notice and told the company to fix its paperwork. The tanks had sat at their new location, near homes, schools and a nursing home, with little or no state oversight for all that time.
Please READ the entire DMN article because it states the following: “Texas officials said the Office of the Texas State Chemist, which regulates fertilizer, visited the company 12 times in 2012 and found no problems with the management of its material.” Note that federal regulators have not written up the plant for violations in years. We can agreed that this facility had problems in the past – 1984!!! There are hundreds of facilities across the US that store these chemicals the same way there are in West, Texas. That is a problem because government regulators – mainly federal – have both lax regulations and don’t do an adequate job of enforcing those regulations. This tragedy could have happened in any farming community in the US. There have been numerous suggestions to improve the storage regulations for these chemicals but, the government has not acted on them. Maybe they will now. In the meantime, Obama should not have promised the city of West help with rebuilding their schools and intrastructure and them back down on what he said.
Show me where he “promised the city of West help with rebuilding their schools and intrastructure.” He said he “would help them rebuild their town.”
As of Wednesday, FEMA said the agency and the U.S. Small Business Administration had approved more than $7 million in aid and low-interest loans to West residents impacted by the blast. FEMA also is paying 75 percent of the costs of debris removal and will reimburse the state and the municipality for the initial emergency response.
Is that not helping? What the heck do you people want? Doesn’t the town and it’s citizens and businesses carry property insurance? Why is it necessary to bring in government aid.
Again, this is not a “natural” disaster, ie. hurricane, tornado, tsunami, wildfire and how many people were truely displaced? Most residents returned home in 2 days and they had limited access to running water, electricity, etc.
Not exactly a textbook FEMA emergency.
“would help them rebuild their town” pretty much references the help with schools and intrastructure as any private or commercial property should have had insurance. Many if not most school districts and municipal governments in the US self insure with the help of reinsurance. The damaged schools were probably originally built with some federal government aid program. The city of West never should have allowed schools and housing to be build so close to the fertilizer plant as it was there first. Like any school district or town they should have a plan in the event the damage was caused by natural or other disaster. I live near West and yes, the town could have expanded in other directions. If Obama had simply expressed sympathy for the town of West without offering help to rebuild I would be OK with that. However, Obama got political points for his initial remarks of helping to rebuild – that’s were changing his mind later creates a problem with me.
Number 1 Kent, he didn’t “change his mind.” FEMA has helped. $7M worth, plus help with clean-up and debris removal. That is plenty of help in this situation. It was not a disaster, and as such, should not be treated like one. If the school district self-insured and now can’t afford their program, well shame on them. Not the American people’s problem. Let the state step in. After all, they’re the ones that allowed the plant to operate with only $1M insurance. Now you want federal government assistance? I don’t think so.
Dear KentU:
The plant exploded. Obviously, there was an issue with materials management.
Celtica, we both agree with what you just stated. Everybody has been concerned about the ammonium nitrate (which we should) but, the problem at the West plant was the method and/or location of the anhydrous ammonia which caused a combusion explosion – not a chemical explosion. Anhydrous ammonia gas is to be stored at a temperature of minus 38 degrees farenheit – which it was in West. A fire broke out in a building close to the anhydrous ammonia tanks – the tanks heated up causing the gas to expand and eventually the tanks exploded – like putting too much air in a car tire. A number of independent engineers in this field have expressed surprise as to why neither federal nor state regulations require better security and safer distances from building with fire potential for these chemicals. The West plant wasn’t written up for violating these problems because current regulations don’t include these safetly measures. Hopefully, the West tragedy will cause regulators to get more strict with their rules as this problem exists in many other similar facities.
Where was OSHA? It is supposed to be the agency that is in charge of Occupational Health & Safety. They are supposed to inspect plants, write up deficiencies and fine a company for non-compliance. Sounds to me like they fell down on the job.
The Associated Press also did a story on FEMA’s decision and including a very interesting fact that were not mentioned in the Bloomberg story. Courtesy of the AP:
“It’s not unusual for FEMA to turn down that level of assistance for emergencies not stemming from natural disasters. In 2010, for example, officials denied a request for millions in aid after a gas pipeline explosion that consumed a Northern California neighborhood.”
Ooooh. A BLUE state was refused aid! Did the Democrats start jumping up and down over it? NO.
Libby, only a Blue State will turn down free aid due to union rules. In NJ after Sandy, electrical workers were sent from Alabama to help restore electricity. They were told by the Brotherhood of Electrical Workers that because they weren’t unionized, they could head on back home. I am sure the power was out a lot longer because of union actions. I am told by relatives that many came in from other states to help the victims in the Oklahoma tornado disaster and none were turned away. They were grateful to have the help to clear debris, provide food and water. One guy came from Joplin, Mo to help because he was helped by Oklahomans when Joplin had their tragedy.
Agent – you forget I’m not a big fan of unions.
Why should the government step in to help when the fertilizer plant should be paying the bills. That’s what insurance is for.
Not sure where the mean spirited Boss Hog and Sheriff Roscoe comment came from. Why do certain elements of society and political spectrum turn to name calling and marginalization?
You need to look no further than Don’t call me Shirley, Celtica or Libby to find the most mean spirited comments on this site. I am really surprised they didn’t blame GW on this explosion since he lives about 100 miles away and we all know it is his fault no matter what happens.
That’s good for a laugh this afternooon, Agent. You are one of the meanest on this blog with your constant insults to me. Like I got dropped on my head, or I was deprived of oxygen so am braindead. I could go on, but the list is too long.
Selective memory, big-time.
Let me re-phrase the Boss Hog and Sheriff Roscoe comment – “It was Obummer’s fault.” Is that better?
This was the fert plant’s fault, not a natural disaster. Awfully American of FEMA to lend a hand anyhow. They didn’t have to do that. The plant is responsible and was severly underinsured. Given my experience in the agribusiness line, they probably saw the high insurance premiums as a major hit to their bottom line. Not smart stewardship given the height of the risks associated with their operations. Now, it’s a tragedy for many.
Exactly! Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I guess it must have been those liberal, Democrat, 47%-er, blue-state, progrssive, CNN-watching, Rachel Maddow-loving, Obama-tron,..oh, wait a minute.