There is just as much fraud being committed at the hospitals, MD offices, and with Physical Therapists, as any other type provider. Massage Therapy, Acupuncture are equally needed service for recovery. I for one want the freedom to choose the methodology that works best for me not politicians, Insurance companies, or a governor (past hospital administrator) who clearly wants to stack the deck for his friends in the medical/Drug industry…
This is NOT about protecting the consumer even though they say it is.
Our patients require indepth muscle work to recover from
Auto Accident injuries. Adjustments to extremities
and spinal segments are also needed. I have been treating
patients for 27 years. I have seen almost everything.
The patients will lose and suffer a life time of lower quality
health. I know it in my heart.
Dr. Mike
Very bad news for Florida citizens and many health professionals. Typical government though, punish the innocent instead of the guilty. Not like the ERs and hospitals don’t over-charge! Also, many times it takes way more than 2 days to see the full effects of an auto accident. Bad, bad government!
If you are so concerned about the patients, then your treatments should do something to cure what ails them. If the services you are performing do not fix the patient within 3-4 visits then clearly what you are doing isn’t working. Instead you just tag the system for visit after visit doing nothing to help the patient in the end.
This law is a plus for consumers because it is going to require people to get the treatments they actually need, rather than watching money get wasted on services that do not heal the injuries. If a patient truly needs physical therapy or chiropractic services then let their treating physician refer them.
Your opinion reflects a life without injury. Lucky you and may God continue to bless you so that you never require the service of an emergency room or a prescription to addictive pain medicines with side effects that will destroy your internal organs
And with that response, I am guessing that you are not in the medical field or have even looked at statistics on injury recovery.
And Doctors all provide a treatment that fixes a patient within 3-4 visits? No. Therefore, using your logic, the Doctors are doing nothing to help the patient in the end either. They just try different drugs on them or open them up and do surgery.
This law is NOT a plus for consumers. We will now be paying a ridiculous price for a required item that will just create more wait times in over-priced ERs. And by saying, “Instead you just tag the system for visit after visit doing nothing to help the patient in the end” is false. First of all, if I can see that the patient isn’t seeing any improvement, I always refer them back to their physician. Don’t assume!
While I do agree that there are individuals that are abusing the system, not all of the health providers are. Do some research on auto accident injuries and what actually aids the injured.
There are many corrupt politicians, should we forbid all politicians then? There are some bad teachers that sleep with students, should we forbid all teachers from getting paid to do their job? There are many corrupt Dr.s who are just out to make a buck and prescribe unneeded medicines because of the kickback they get, should we forbid all doctors from billing insurance companies?
Why are we targeting a few health care professions because there are some corrupt people abusing the system. Fix the system instead of punishing the citizens!
Let me start out by saying that “Former Status Quo” is an idiot who has no clue what he is talking about. Most true injuries from an accident cannot be fixed within 3 to 4 visits. This is just another example of our short sighted government making rules that hurt those of us who are innocent. I’m all for trying to stop fraud, but this law will hurt those of us who have truly been injured. I was rearended twice last fall because of the terrible drivers in this town, and I have lots of back and neck pain. I am going to physical therapy and massage therapy and both help but healing is slow. When you have soft tissue damage it takes a long time to heal. And for you people who don’t know what massage therapy does for we accident victims, it isn’t a nice relaxing light massage. It is a painful process of deep tissue work that helps the muscles heal, but this takes time. I don’t know what it will take for reform, but I do know that crooks will always be around, cheating the system and they should be the ones punished, not those of us who are not frauds. If I have to pay for pip coverage, then it should cover the treatment that actually works for me and not halt my treatment because some crooked politicians want to put more money in the pockets of the drug companies. I would rather have physical therapy and massage therapy that really work, then be forced to just live with the pain and take meds.
I am really amazed to see how massage therapists and acupuncturists are sitting on the sideline when their livelihood (i.e. food on the table) is threatened by a governor and some legislators that are patsies for hospitals and hospital-owned clinics. Also, does not everyone in Florida know that Governor Scott and a good number of those pseudo legislators are in cahoots with them?
On the other hand, it is well known that the emergency clinics have nothing serious to offer to most injury patients. Of course, they know very well how to jack up their bills and suck up the PIP benefits in no time. Who is protesting, who is marching, who is appearing on TV to denounce this gross injustice that will send thousands and thousands of people out to join the ranks of the unemployed? How about the customers who will not get the treatments that their conditions require? We are just like deer that are blindened by the highway lights. It is easy to say that the Florida legislature’s attempt at reforming PIP, however necessary it is, should not be conducted on the backs of massage therapists, and acupunturists, but if it comes to that, maybe they will only have their own apathy and laziness to blame. Scott’s friends in the insurance industry and the hospital business must be taking champagne baths right now while some M.T.’s kids will soon go hungry. Bravo. It’s a wonderful, wonderful world with Mickey Mouse democracy in action.
“Scott likes the requirement in the House version that requires those hurt in a wreck to go to a hospital emergency room or hospital-owned walk-in clinic within 72 hours for personal-injury coverage to kick in.” Doesn’t Scott (Or his wife) own Solantic? I imagine a walk in clinic business just might benefit from the house version. Duh. Georgia got rid of mandatory PIP years ago. Best thing they ever did.
When they talk about fraud in PIP, no one takes into account the amount of fraud perpretrated on the driving public by the Insurance Companies themselves., refusing to pay claims, because of the location of calimants neighborhood or ethnic criteria, subjecting claimants to multiple examinations under oath, sending claimaints to Independent Medical Exams, with Doctors that are paid by the insurance companies to limit care. Questioning all aspects of the patients private life, to prevent paying claims. In some cases the insurance company puts the claim under investigation and as long as 18 months later, still hasn’t decided if the claim is good or not. This is not due diligence by the insurance companies.
I agree there is a definite problem with groups using the staged accidents to make money by fraud. However after what happened to me under an undisputable on the job Workers Compensation injury from an intoxicated third party with witnesses’, I say BE CAREFUL GIVING INSURANCE LOBBYS EVEN MORE POWER!!!
I fell for the amendment on the ballot several years ago to limit fees charged by the so-called “Ambulance Chasing Lawyers in Personal Injury Cases in Florida”.
That law was NOT what we were led to believe. In reality it gave powerful Insurance Companies a “Green Light” to avoid paying on, or delaying, denying legitimate claims even in workers compensation.
For example; how many of us really have the funds to pay out of pocket for a board certified attorney retainer fee(s)? Many had worked on contingency fee’s collecting only if they are able to prove your case and getting a percentage. Finally after judges have seen the unfairness that the Insurance Company/Employers were allowed unlimited fees for their legal council, and Injured Workers were severely limited to the amount they could pay for council (Example: Employer Council is paid $30,000 Injured Worker Council legally limited to $10,000) Hardly Fair and Balanced!
That law we (the majorities were fooled into voting for) cut the amounts that an attorney could collect not only at an hourly rate, but also limiting billable hours allowed in any case by the injured claimant’s attorney. So your attorney (for example) may be limited to billing $10K in a long hard fought out case fighting for your right for medical treatments that are constantly delayed or denied even when the primary care physician refers you to a specialist.
Well after months or some cases Years the Insurance Carrier is unlimited in what it pays its Attorneys, In-House Nurse Case Workers (Paid to counter your doctor’s referrals for specialists, treatments and surgeries).
I have learned Only through an on the job injury that turned out to be more than we initially thought as I kept getting worse (Finally Discovered 5 months later through MRI that it was my Cervical Spine with a Herniated Nucleus Pulpopis impinging on my spinal cord and nerve roots bi-laterally.
This was the reason for my pain, burning, and numbness in my upper extremities worsening several weeks after the accident losing use of my left arm and hand, and then weeks later same symptoms going into my right.
Over 10 months later and I still have not been approved for the surgery TWO Specialists say has been needed for several months. After working for 3 months at restricted duty it got so bad into my right arm as well that my employer and the insurance carrier sent me home on temporary disability through work comp. The Insurer had been delaying my treatments, not returned any calls after 3 months prior and I filed a petition for benefits through an attorney to hopefully and finally get treatment. Just days after my employer and their carrier received the legal request for benefits the process started to wrongfully terminate me from my job. I had been there for several years and had no negative write-ups, and really liked my job and clients. ALL gone…Now another Attorney to hire and for the reason that they stated they consider me as being disabled and can no longer do my job, which is a violation of ADA disability discrimination and failure to reasonably accommodate by the rejection of engaging in an interactive process.
I have not been without a job, insurance or collected any unemployment in the past 27 years! My credit beacon in the 785-790 range (not too bad) and have been married for 25 years this year. So I am not a statistical suspect for fraud! Our home, cars, and the Harley-Davidson (I can no longer ride since late May 2011 due to my injury) all have full coverage insurance with $250 deductable and we have never been late on paying our bills.
So I was forced to go from desperately trying to get my much needed treatment so I could get back to work and enjoy my weekends on my Harley and working around my house on my lawn and projects….to Having to hire an attorney 4 months into my injury.
So PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE BILL BEFORE AGREEING TO ANYTHING THAT GIVES EVEN MORE POWER TO THE INSURANCE and BANKING INDUSTRY!!!
They are the new MOB! Don’t believe their power is that big?
Whose Names are on The Tallest Buildings in Any Mid to Major Sized Cities? They control us through their own payoffs to many of our legislators. Not all take the bait, some are blindly signing on just reading part of the bills that are deceiving enough t make them think it is all for the good of us all.
Believe me Insurance companies Only Make a Profit for Their Stock Holders When They Do Not Pay Your Claims!
Stiffer penalties for Fraud, better monitoring of claims and honestly look at imaging such as MRI’s, Cat Scans, Sonograms that prove true injuries. If there is little to no doubt it is a legitimate injury TREAT THE PATIENT FIRST AND FOREMOST…Worry about Monetary settlement after treatments have been provided quickly and properly providing the best treatment possible for returning the injured to pre-injured status if possible. This is just one True Example that went on for over 10 Months!!!
In Aguilera v. Inservices, A claimant suffered a compensable accident where he endured internal bodily injuries that punctured his bladder and intestines.
Here are just SOME of the things the Carrier did to this Injured Worker:
1.Cancelled medical testing at the last minute when Claimant had a ruptured his bladder and colon.
2.Denied emergency care after all doctors opined the injuries compensable and Claimant’s urine contained feces!
3.The Carrier’s nurse case manager attended the Carrier’s IME without telling Claimant attorney and coerced Claimant to lie to his attorney about her presence.
4.At said IME, the nurse case manager forced Claimant to undergo painful medical tests that was contraindicative of his medical condition.
5.AFTER 10 MONTHS!!! of the Claimant urinating feces, the Carrier FINALLY authorized “emergency” surgery.
This is an extreme case, but many other Insurance Carriers are still delaying, denying, and defending their bad faith actions that further impair injured workers in this state and cause them to suffer pain and emotional distress. Also in some cases allow a once treatable injury to have permanent results due to the three D’s mentioned above. Pain and Suffering is NOT compensable in Florida as it is considered Suggestive. Yes it can happen to any of us that get injured and at the mercy of the giant insurance corporations.
Florida Workers Compensation is to Prevent an Injured Worker From Any Tort Lawsuits for what adds up to substandard care for any injuries they consider will be costly to treat.
Do not let this new proposal Punish the Honest & Law Abiding Americans.
Thank You.
There is just as much fraud being committed at the hospitals, MD offices, and with Physical Therapists, as any other type provider. Massage Therapy, Acupuncture are equally needed service for recovery. I for one want the freedom to choose the methodology that works best for me not politicians, Insurance companies, or a governor (past hospital administrator) who clearly wants to stack the deck for his friends in the medical/Drug industry…
This is NOT about protecting the consumer even though they say it is.
Our patients require indepth muscle work to recover from
Auto Accident injuries. Adjustments to extremities
and spinal segments are also needed. I have been treating
patients for 27 years. I have seen almost everything.
The patients will lose and suffer a life time of lower quality
health. I know it in my heart.
Dr. Mike
Very bad news for Florida citizens and many health professionals. Typical government though, punish the innocent instead of the guilty. Not like the ERs and hospitals don’t over-charge! Also, many times it takes way more than 2 days to see the full effects of an auto accident. Bad, bad government!
If you are so concerned about the patients, then your treatments should do something to cure what ails them. If the services you are performing do not fix the patient within 3-4 visits then clearly what you are doing isn’t working. Instead you just tag the system for visit after visit doing nothing to help the patient in the end.
This law is a plus for consumers because it is going to require people to get the treatments they actually need, rather than watching money get wasted on services that do not heal the injuries. If a patient truly needs physical therapy or chiropractic services then let their treating physician refer them.
Your opinion reflects a life without injury. Lucky you and may God continue to bless you so that you never require the service of an emergency room or a prescription to addictive pain medicines with side effects that will destroy your internal organs
And with that response, I am guessing that you are not in the medical field or have even looked at statistics on injury recovery.
And Doctors all provide a treatment that fixes a patient within 3-4 visits? No. Therefore, using your logic, the Doctors are doing nothing to help the patient in the end either. They just try different drugs on them or open them up and do surgery.
This law is NOT a plus for consumers. We will now be paying a ridiculous price for a required item that will just create more wait times in over-priced ERs. And by saying, “Instead you just tag the system for visit after visit doing nothing to help the patient in the end” is false. First of all, if I can see that the patient isn’t seeing any improvement, I always refer them back to their physician. Don’t assume!
While I do agree that there are individuals that are abusing the system, not all of the health providers are. Do some research on auto accident injuries and what actually aids the injured.
There are many corrupt politicians, should we forbid all politicians then? There are some bad teachers that sleep with students, should we forbid all teachers from getting paid to do their job? There are many corrupt Dr.s who are just out to make a buck and prescribe unneeded medicines because of the kickback they get, should we forbid all doctors from billing insurance companies?
Why are we targeting a few health care professions because there are some corrupt people abusing the system. Fix the system instead of punishing the citizens!
Let me start out by saying that “Former Status Quo” is an idiot who has no clue what he is talking about. Most true injuries from an accident cannot be fixed within 3 to 4 visits. This is just another example of our short sighted government making rules that hurt those of us who are innocent. I’m all for trying to stop fraud, but this law will hurt those of us who have truly been injured. I was rearended twice last fall because of the terrible drivers in this town, and I have lots of back and neck pain. I am going to physical therapy and massage therapy and both help but healing is slow. When you have soft tissue damage it takes a long time to heal. And for you people who don’t know what massage therapy does for we accident victims, it isn’t a nice relaxing light massage. It is a painful process of deep tissue work that helps the muscles heal, but this takes time. I don’t know what it will take for reform, but I do know that crooks will always be around, cheating the system and they should be the ones punished, not those of us who are not frauds. If I have to pay for pip coverage, then it should cover the treatment that actually works for me and not halt my treatment because some crooked politicians want to put more money in the pockets of the drug companies. I would rather have physical therapy and massage therapy that really work, then be forced to just live with the pain and take meds.
I am really amazed to see how massage therapists and acupuncturists are sitting on the sideline when their livelihood (i.e. food on the table) is threatened by a governor and some legislators that are patsies for hospitals and hospital-owned clinics. Also, does not everyone in Florida know that Governor Scott and a good number of those pseudo legislators are in cahoots with them?
On the other hand, it is well known that the emergency clinics have nothing serious to offer to most injury patients. Of course, they know very well how to jack up their bills and suck up the PIP benefits in no time. Who is protesting, who is marching, who is appearing on TV to denounce this gross injustice that will send thousands and thousands of people out to join the ranks of the unemployed? How about the customers who will not get the treatments that their conditions require? We are just like deer that are blindened by the highway lights. It is easy to say that the Florida legislature’s attempt at reforming PIP, however necessary it is, should not be conducted on the backs of massage therapists, and acupunturists, but if it comes to that, maybe they will only have their own apathy and laziness to blame. Scott’s friends in the insurance industry and the hospital business must be taking champagne baths right now while some M.T.’s kids will soon go hungry. Bravo. It’s a wonderful, wonderful world with Mickey Mouse democracy in action.
C. Smith
“Scott likes the requirement in the House version that requires those hurt in a wreck to go to a hospital emergency room or hospital-owned walk-in clinic within 72 hours for personal-injury coverage to kick in.” Doesn’t Scott (Or his wife) own Solantic? I imagine a walk in clinic business just might benefit from the house version. Duh. Georgia got rid of mandatory PIP years ago. Best thing they ever did.
When they talk about fraud in PIP, no one takes into account the amount of fraud perpretrated on the driving public by the Insurance Companies themselves., refusing to pay claims, because of the location of calimants neighborhood or ethnic criteria, subjecting claimants to multiple examinations under oath, sending claimaints to Independent Medical Exams, with Doctors that are paid by the insurance companies to limit care. Questioning all aspects of the patients private life, to prevent paying claims. In some cases the insurance company puts the claim under investigation and as long as 18 months later, still hasn’t decided if the claim is good or not. This is not due diligence by the insurance companies.
I agree there is a definite problem with groups using the staged accidents to make money by fraud. However after what happened to me under an undisputable on the job Workers Compensation injury from an intoxicated third party with witnesses’, I say BE CAREFUL GIVING INSURANCE LOBBYS EVEN MORE POWER!!!
I fell for the amendment on the ballot several years ago to limit fees charged by the so-called “Ambulance Chasing Lawyers in Personal Injury Cases in Florida”.
That law was NOT what we were led to believe. In reality it gave powerful Insurance Companies a “Green Light” to avoid paying on, or delaying, denying legitimate claims even in workers compensation.
For example; how many of us really have the funds to pay out of pocket for a board certified attorney retainer fee(s)? Many had worked on contingency fee’s collecting only if they are able to prove your case and getting a percentage. Finally after judges have seen the unfairness that the Insurance Company/Employers were allowed unlimited fees for their legal council, and Injured Workers were severely limited to the amount they could pay for council (Example: Employer Council is paid $30,000 Injured Worker Council legally limited to $10,000) Hardly Fair and Balanced!
That law we (the majorities were fooled into voting for) cut the amounts that an attorney could collect not only at an hourly rate, but also limiting billable hours allowed in any case by the injured claimant’s attorney. So your attorney (for example) may be limited to billing $10K in a long hard fought out case fighting for your right for medical treatments that are constantly delayed or denied even when the primary care physician refers you to a specialist.
Well after months or some cases Years the Insurance Carrier is unlimited in what it pays its Attorneys, In-House Nurse Case Workers (Paid to counter your doctor’s referrals for specialists, treatments and surgeries).
I have learned Only through an on the job injury that turned out to be more than we initially thought as I kept getting worse (Finally Discovered 5 months later through MRI that it was my Cervical Spine with a Herniated Nucleus Pulpopis impinging on my spinal cord and nerve roots bi-laterally.
This was the reason for my pain, burning, and numbness in my upper extremities worsening several weeks after the accident losing use of my left arm and hand, and then weeks later same symptoms going into my right.
Over 10 months later and I still have not been approved for the surgery TWO Specialists say has been needed for several months. After working for 3 months at restricted duty it got so bad into my right arm as well that my employer and the insurance carrier sent me home on temporary disability through work comp. The Insurer had been delaying my treatments, not returned any calls after 3 months prior and I filed a petition for benefits through an attorney to hopefully and finally get treatment. Just days after my employer and their carrier received the legal request for benefits the process started to wrongfully terminate me from my job. I had been there for several years and had no negative write-ups, and really liked my job and clients. ALL gone…Now another Attorney to hire and for the reason that they stated they consider me as being disabled and can no longer do my job, which is a violation of ADA disability discrimination and failure to reasonably accommodate by the rejection of engaging in an interactive process.
I have not been without a job, insurance or collected any unemployment in the past 27 years! My credit beacon in the 785-790 range (not too bad) and have been married for 25 years this year. So I am not a statistical suspect for fraud! Our home, cars, and the Harley-Davidson (I can no longer ride since late May 2011 due to my injury) all have full coverage insurance with $250 deductable and we have never been late on paying our bills.
So I was forced to go from desperately trying to get my much needed treatment so I could get back to work and enjoy my weekends on my Harley and working around my house on my lawn and projects….to Having to hire an attorney 4 months into my injury.
So PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE BILL BEFORE AGREEING TO ANYTHING THAT GIVES EVEN MORE POWER TO THE INSURANCE and BANKING INDUSTRY!!!
They are the new MOB! Don’t believe their power is that big?
Whose Names are on The Tallest Buildings in Any Mid to Major Sized Cities? They control us through their own payoffs to many of our legislators. Not all take the bait, some are blindly signing on just reading part of the bills that are deceiving enough t make them think it is all for the good of us all.
Believe me Insurance companies Only Make a Profit for Their Stock Holders When They Do Not Pay Your Claims!
Stiffer penalties for Fraud, better monitoring of claims and honestly look at imaging such as MRI’s, Cat Scans, Sonograms that prove true injuries. If there is little to no doubt it is a legitimate injury TREAT THE PATIENT FIRST AND FOREMOST…Worry about Monetary settlement after treatments have been provided quickly and properly providing the best treatment possible for returning the injured to pre-injured status if possible. This is just one True Example that went on for over 10 Months!!!
In Aguilera v. Inservices, A claimant suffered a compensable accident where he endured internal bodily injuries that punctured his bladder and intestines.
Here are just SOME of the things the Carrier did to this Injured Worker:
1.Cancelled medical testing at the last minute when Claimant had a ruptured his bladder and colon.
2.Denied emergency care after all doctors opined the injuries compensable and Claimant’s urine contained feces!
3.The Carrier’s nurse case manager attended the Carrier’s IME without telling Claimant attorney and coerced Claimant to lie to his attorney about her presence.
4.At said IME, the nurse case manager forced Claimant to undergo painful medical tests that was contraindicative of his medical condition.
5.AFTER 10 MONTHS!!! of the Claimant urinating feces, the Carrier FINALLY authorized “emergency” surgery.
This is an extreme case, but many other Insurance Carriers are still delaying, denying, and defending their bad faith actions that further impair injured workers in this state and cause them to suffer pain and emotional distress. Also in some cases allow a once treatable injury to have permanent results due to the three D’s mentioned above. Pain and Suffering is NOT compensable in Florida as it is considered Suggestive. Yes it can happen to any of us that get injured and at the mercy of the giant insurance corporations.
Florida Workers Compensation is to Prevent an Injured Worker From Any Tort Lawsuits for what adds up to substandard care for any injuries they consider will be costly to treat.
Do not let this new proposal Punish the Honest & Law Abiding Americans.
Thank You.