Life Insurance for people with no SSN

[meytai]

I need a market for people who don't have SSNs.. obviously the options these people would have would be very limited.. any suggestions on a company that i could look into? I work with a largely latino community and almost 1000 percent of them don't have SSN but they want insurance

Thanks in advance

[Struck Odd]

Wow. It's hard to "want" to help anything that leans toward the "illegal". We are in such crisis today, it's hard to find a comfortable spot on this one. Good Luck...

[meytai]

Who said anything about something illegal?

These people are illegals from Latin America that can't get a SSN.. but still want a death benefit for their families in case they pass away........................................................................................................................................... how is that illegal? There is a market for it.. just can't find it

[mica.cooper]

I would be very very very concerned that doing financial services such as insurance for illegals would get me into big big big trouble with Homeland Security. How can you justify putting your business, yourself, and your family in such jeopardy? I think there is a federal law, although I can't point you to it, that strictly prohibits providing financial services to illegals.

[skeptical]

Buying insurance is not illegal, however, this situation is the same as a drug dealer trying to purchase insurance for his or her drugs as "stock"?

[Struck Odd]

Meytai: You've clearly stated it now - they are illegals. Guess you're not getting it.

[Big Dog]

Without proper identification, it makes it almost impossible for an life insurance company to verify that the insured is is who they claim to be.

Additionally, wanting to provide life insurance on someone without a SSN raises legal issues. Specifically, anti-money laundering and possible Patriot Act issues, that could earn you a visit by the Secret Service or FBI.

The best recommendation is to DROP IT. Your walking into a mine field that could end your career.

[wert]

Companies generally require SSN in order to meet their anti-money laundering obligations under the Bank Secrecy Act and the Patriot Act.

[superdash8]

It sounds like perhaps the best advice to give these clients would be to get life insurance in their native country. Although then they would probably need to go back. And even if they could get a company in the US to write a policy, their beneficiaries might have a tough time getting the payout from the company. Another thought - if they are indeed here illegally, how much money could they be making that would make it worth getting life insurance?

[Unavozeneldesierto]

Dear fellow agents and public in general: Let me remind you about the following portion of the Agreement you promised to abide by when you sign up as a member of this forum:

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Insurance Journal” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us."

1.- USA code is very specific in regards to discrimination in the basis of national origin. Then; why most USA Insurance Companies and Insurance Agents discriminate against aliens in general?

A) USA Proclamation of Independence says: "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL" where is the equality when insurance services are denied or sold at a higher price to people from other nations living in the USA?

B) The United States Constitution start with "WE THE PEOPLE". Illegals like you have called them in these posts, or for the matter, people less fortunate than others who are pursuing their "AMERICAN DREAM" just like any body else in here that has posted are "PEOPLE" too, they deserve and have the right to protect and preserve their assets. We as Insurance professionals are obligated and it's our mission and our duty to help them to accomplish just that.

2.- IRS publication 519 specifically deals with the issues about taxation for aliens there is a diagram in page 5 of such document which illustrates that these individuals are considered "United States PERSONS" as well for taxation purposes if they meet the "SUBSTANTIAL PRESENCE TEST".

A) The Taxpayer Certification portion of the life insurance applications contain the following statement:
"I (We) am (are) a U.S. person(s) (including a U.S. resident alien)." notice how W9's are specifically designed to help comply with both the Taxation Law as well as the Patriot ACT.

B) Then if the above certification is formulated in the context of "THE TAXATION LAW", why do USA Insurance Companies underwrite their products and services under the context of "THE IMMIGRATION LAW"?

C) There must be a reason why IRS issues ITIN's (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) to these fox when unable to obtain an SSN.

Did anybody before me post anything about anything being illegal? Or am I just hallucinating?

Let's stop playing USICE (United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement) agents. Let's do our jobs as Insurance professionals that we are by helping to protect, preserve, and increase the assets of "WE THE PEOPLE" whom "ARE ALL CREATED EQUAL".

Let's us pledge true allegiance to the flag of the USA "ONE NATION" which is under "GOD" with "LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL". Yes "ALL", Every Body, "ALL".

Thanks and "GOD BLESS AMERICA"

[Big Dog]

Dear fellow agents and public in general: Let me remind you about the following portion of the Agreement you promised to abide by when you sign up as a member of this forum:...

Uh, what?

Given that several peopole, besides myself, noted that the requirement of a SSN was to address the anti-money laundering portions of several federal acts, including the Patriot Act.

This isn't "discrimination in the basis of national origin", it's called obeying the law.

[Unavozeneldesierto]

The Patriot Act, as well as any other anti-money laundering acts do not specifically require just an SSN, buth rather a TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number) of course IRS records earnings, and pays refunds under either the SSN or the ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number). Have in mind that we are talking about individuals here. As for companies the number used is a FEIN (Federal Employer Identification Number) which for the matter is a company's Taxpayer ID number.

Insurance companies as well as financial institutions are required to obtain such TIN's so that they can report to IRS any earnings, benefits, and or interests paid or charged to individual entities or companies.

Thanks

[Unavozeneldesierto]

Dear fellow agents and public in general: Let me remind you about the following portion of the Agreement you promised to abide by when you sign up as a member of this forum:...

Uh, what?

Given that several peopole, besides myself, noted that the requirement of a SSN was to address the anti-money laundering portions of several federal acts, including the Patriot Act.

This isn't "discrimination in the basis of national origin", it's called obeying the law.

Documented and undocumented immigrants are obligated to pay taxes on money that is earned in the USA just like any citizen again please refer to IRS publication 519 look at he diagram on page 5 of such publication and notice how undocumented aliens are also considered USA persons under the "SUBSTANTIAL PRESENCE TEST". Also read and understand the W9 thoroughly.

Insurance and Financial companies would comply just fine with any regulation now existing as long as they collect an ITIN and a valid ID from these undocumented immigrants. Of course they are making business decisions and other factors would apply as well such lenght of work at present job, medical record, yearly income and so on; but it's no different than underwritting for USA citizens.

[Unavozeneldesierto]

By the way:

SSN's are issued by the SSA (Social Security Administration) to administer benefits. IRS uses SSN's to keep track of taxation obligations and administration of benefits as well.

As for ITIN's these are issued by IRS (Internal Revenue Service) to track taxation obligations and administration of benefits for individuals who are not able to obtain SSN's due to their immigration status.

Now then, aliens who lack of valid immigration status are not eligible for SSA's benefits. However they are still people with rights given under the USA code specifically (TAXATION LAW) which is what Insurance Companies should use to sell and market their products.

[mica.cooper]

Unavozeneldesierto,

Please, there is no discrimination going on here. Obviously you have issues regarding immigration but this is not the discussion to air your grievances with the US government and insurance companies.

We are just trying to discern 1, finding insurance for someone with no SSN and 2, if such is legal to do.

It is my understanding, and I have a very good understanding of this, having a former illegal as wife, and brother-in-law who was a former coyote, that it is not legal. When I made my wife legal, she got a an SSN and a resident alien card. This was the point where it became legal for her to get a drivers license, insurance, and job. Children are also required to have SSN's issued at birth. So, every legal resident should have an SSN as far as I understand the law.

Selling insurance to someone without an SSN can then be equated to selling to an illegal immigrant. As such, illegal immigration is a felony, and aiding and abetting, such opening a bank account or other financial services such as insurance are as well. Open a bank account for someone without an SSN and lets see how long you have a job...