What is the value of qualified set Commercial Appointments

[Shagster12]

Scott,
Ok, I can understand and appreciate your approach and stance on marketing.
I agree that your approach makes much better sense and is a much better option for someone that has been in the business for long enough to have garnered several designations and established a reputation.
My opinion is that for those who have not been around for decades to develop a reputation that will drive business to them and still have to hunt for it, that a well established professional lead generation program is worth the investment in order to assist in building your business to a point where you can then begin to change your efforts and evolve your marketing approach.
I contend that someone just starting their practice or just evolving to a point of beginning a marketing campaign, will not be able to put themselves in a position to be sought out as they have no established reputation to advance them as a person of interest. They will only be capable of garnering that reputation by making contact with and gaining the trust of clients in their market segment. And I believe an integral part of building to that point is through business to business marketing. And my opinion is that the most successful campaigns will be multi faceted encompassing advertising, mailing and phone campaigns designed specifically for your market segment.
And once again I'd point out that you must be narrow in your focus to develop and execute a successful campaign. You need to establish a specific target market and gear your campaign specifically to that segment. Once you've achieved market saturation and penetration you can begin to widen your efforts to a broader base and then word will spread and you will begin to be sought out.
Shagster

[wlunday]

It's pretty obvious that there are many different ways to market. Some people market themselves (Scott), others push a cheap price, and still others take a shotgun approach and do a whole bunch of print advertising and phoning. Still others do not have the time or skills to do any of this properly, or perhaps don't have the appropriate personality (nerd?). This person can hire it done by contacting a leads-generating business. They are all good ideas.

Bigger firms and newly established agencies might lean toward the purchasing of leads. Smaller "boutique" shops might spend more effort on relationship building. The bottom line is that we all need to make a living, and to do that we need sales, and to do that we need to follow the advice of one of the elders of the life insurance business...

When asked what advice he would offer to new recruits, Ben Feldman said... "It's simple... just see the people!"

Swymmer

[jzeledon]

"wlunday couldn't have put it better"

Agencies looking to increase sales and market share know their producers need to intensify their prospecting. Our call center gives our clients the confidence to know that our campaigns will deliver the activity necessary to meet their new business goals. Our campaigns include quality control measures to assure accurate information including waive files for your review to hear the quality of the calls being made.

NMSDATA is a time management specialist. We free up your sales staff by putting them in a position to follow up with more qualified prospects in a more cost effective and efficient manner. In essence, NMSDATA helps speed up the sales cycle to increase revenues for the agency. Our services will build a pipeline of leads and or appointments much faster and more efficiently, which will position the agency producers to follow up with more pre-qualified prospects in a shorter period of time.

John Zeledon
Account Executive
(949) 472-2746
(800) 736-9741 ext. 3066
http://www.nmsdata.com

"Lazy hands make a man poor, but
diligent hands bring wealth."
Proverbs 10:4

[Wolf]

For commercial lines P&C and Group Health QUALIFIED apointments can be very a valuable asset to your sales force.
cost effective: database management, payment and scheduling of callers, replacement for no-shows,all taken care of by the TM firm. Presentation and closing are your skill set and yor time is valuable don't waste your time cold calling. Non licensed staff can call.
Time saving: time on the phone is time taken away from current clients and prospects.
as is said "always be closing"
there are some caveats however.
Use a reputable firm. I hear horror stories everyday about people who paid a firm in CA that went out of business.
Get exclusivity, you should be the only P&C firm they work with in your territory(no one wants to pay for appointments and then find out it was sold to every firm in town).
Make sure they specialize in working with insurance products- we can't sell, but calling for P&C is different from calling for siding and windows and there is a specialized vocabulary required to converse away from a script.
Know your markets-whether it is main street BOPs or a series of SIC codes, know who you can best serve and retain.
KNow your niche- the size and location of your prospects can be key to using callers effectively
Know who is calling - many TM firms oursource their calling -a caller that has a heavy foreign accent can be a real turn off for prospects.
Make sure you get database approval and script approval. you don't need them to call your current clients , they already buy every cross sale product you have right?
Ask to have a listen to actuall calls. you can often have recorded examples of actual calls sent to you.
Know what upfront info helps YOU sell, you want to have more than an x-date when you walk in the door for an appt
Know what volume you can realistically handle ( ?? number of appts per week and on what days)
Understand that the renewal landscape will influence your appointments. Renewals occur primarily in Jan and July so June-Oct and April-May are good prospecting months try to get a program up and running to take advantage of this(someTMs will allow you to suspend and restart a program.
Take responsibility - you should be able to close 10-15% of the appts; if not refine or change your TM program. I don't know your territory but I work with Pro-to-Call Marketing- We work only with P&C Commercial , and group health, are exclusive by territory and have based our reputation on ethics. We have clients that have been with us 7 years and always offer references. I would be happy to schedule a 15 minute phone call between you and Bob Pelz our national sales manager to get you more info. 888-340-4139 x122
www.pro-to-call.com
Diane Wolf

[JustinReed]

I will make this my last post, and I apologize for this turning into an advertising post as it was meant only for educational purposes originally, and advertising is what we pay IJ for.

There are many valid points on all sides. Yes, companies have gone out of business, some companies continue to operate but just change their name, and some close and reopen from time to time as a way of doing business. In all cases clients can get the short end of the stick. Unfortunately I think more people have been hurt by companies who are still in business that just fail to honor their promises as a rule rather than an exception. But like I said originally, our industry has a bad name, and in most cases it is deserved.

I can only offer the following advice to those agents out there that are either in need of a service like this, or still up in the air and needing more information.

#1 - If using a firm with a call center, or multiple call centers...ask where the callers are located. Are they on-site, or are they outsourced to independent contractors, temp agencies, or other countries.

#2 - Do not pay hourly. Hours cannot be quantified, and a guarantee cannot realistically be put on an hourly program. If a guarantee is put on an hourly program, it cannot be enforced.

#3 - Do not pay up front. Not in full, not half. Why pay in advance for work to be completed in the future? Especially when you do not have an "out" if the program does not live up to your expectations.

#4 - Read the fine print. Just because you see the word guarantee, it doesn't mean anything unless you know exactly what that guarantee means. In most cases it means nothing when you get to the bottom of it.

#5 - Ask them where their leads come from. Who owns the leads? Were they used for someone else before? Will they be used for someone else after? If you stop doing business with that firm, who keeps the leads?

#6 - Like all things for sale, cheapest is not always best, and neither is the most expensive. It boils down to what you need done, what will it take to get you there, and who is going to deliver.

#7 - And last but not least, USE A CREDIT CARD. Nothing can better protect you than your credit card company. If you end up with a firm that doesn't honor the agreement, or a firm that changes name, or a firm that closes down, the credit card company protects your investment. Paying by check leaves you open to the possibility of being a victim of fraud.

In closing I would welcome anyone to contact me with questions, and again if you are unsure who to go with I am happy to compete with any firm out there. Split the business two ways and let the best firm win.

[jzeledon]

Yes points are valid on all sides but correct me if I am wrong but the call center that went out of business was DCM. Now to my understanding the only reason you would say such a thing like "companies have gone out of business, some companies continue to operate but just change their name, and some close and reopen from time to time as a way of doing business. In all cases clients can get the short end of the stick." With that said correct me if I am wrong Justin but are you saying this because DCM changed it's name to Beacon Marketing Group or because DCM screwed SOME/MOST NOT ALL of it's clients and went out of business without notifying clients. I thought you had DCM employees and sales reps working at Beacon Marketing Group. There is a long list of ex-DCM clients that would like to talk to certain sales reps on either getting their money back or their database. I also keep records of how many clients have converted from DCM, G&D and Beacon over to NMSDATA/National Marketing Services. In defense of my company the reason we changed our name is because not Program Business and National Marketing partnered up and formed one company.

Yes we do have a REMOTE call center in INDIA but I used the word REMOTE because not only are they on payroll but they are trained by us. They are more educated and take cold calling seriously to make a career out of it. The accounts sent to india are ONLY x-date accounts not appointment setting. However, nothing is sent to INDIA if the client or prospect does not want them to do the calling.

Because of the soft market we have had to evolve into billing by the hour only because it is no longer a hard/tough market like it was 5 years ago. It is unrealistic to give a guarantee in today's market and as long as the client or prospect is okay with our PROJECTIONS than the hourly rate should not be a problem.

The conversion from SUSPECT to X-DATE is anywhere from 1.5-2.0 x-dates an hour
For example, 600 business names requires 75 hours of telemarketing.
I feel comfortable in projecting approximately 110 x-dates.

The conversion from x-date to appointment is about 10% and we will generate an appointment anywhere from 2.5-3.5 hours.
For example, 200 x-dates will deliver 20-25 appointments and will require about 50-70 hours of telemarketing.

Now these are real numbers, I can say anything to get you to give me your money. Do you think that we have been in business for 20 years and have high retention because we are lucky. No, it's because of industry knowledge!

John Zeledon
Account Executive
(949) 472-2746
(800) 736-9741 ext. 3066
http://www.nmsdata.com

"Lazy hands make a man poor, but
diligent hands bring wealth."
Proverbs 10:4

[JustinReed]

Justin Reed
justin@gmrplace.com
Guaranteed Marketing Resource
1439 W. Chapman Ave. Ste#77 | Orange, CA 92868
Tel: 714 .735.8502 | Fax: 714.735.8957
http://www.gmrplace.com

[jzeledon]

Justin I was not trying to argue or get a sale rather just fish for information so I can familiarize myself with my competitors. I am not being ignorant of the facts but then again I never stated that you hid from from ex-clients. I simply said MOST NOT ALL ex-clients were unhappy and yes I do know that certain ex-DCM employees have been contacting ex-clients to make things right as it should be. To be honest I am glad I got the chance to go back and forth with you only because you are helping me understand exactly what is going on in our industry and it's very important to know all the facts.

[Shagster12]

Ok boys,
Time to start playing nice!
Listen we've gotten way off topic here and it's time to veer back.
The topic was the value of the product that both of your services provide. I'm not going to pretend to have a preference for either one of your companies, but I will stand by my original contention that when using the right resource I believe the value is immeasurable, with the caveat that, as you can see by the previous posts, great care be taken when choosing the service that is right for you!
So 205, go with care and do the best homework you can and be as detailed about your expectations as you can and I believe you'll find you're getting business you didn't expect and growing in ways you can't measure.
Good luck again,
Shagster out!

[jctwindad]

Hiring someone to get X dates and/or set appointments is the lazy man's way of operating. I pay my Producers to "produce". That includes everything from the first contact to closing the sale and retaining the account. Sure, they would love it if someone else would do their work for them, but why should I pay someone else to do that? I have a 30 person agency, and have been in this business for 31 years now. When it comes to technology, there are many innovations that allow us to acheive "shortcuts" and operate better. However, when it comes to Sales, there are no shortcuts. If you have a Producer who is too lazy to make his own prospect calls, and appointments - well you really don't have a Producer. Fire him/her and hire someone who can do the job.

Interesting that the only people who had positive comments on using telemarketers/appointment setters were those who are in that business.

Every agent that I have ever talked with about use of these firms tell the same story. You pay too much and get too little in return. But, I guess if you are lazy, and have money to waste, these X dates and appointments are better than none.

[volstrike3]

jcwindad,

I agree to a certain extent but not all agencies and areas operate the same way. If I were paying a producer 25-40% I would expect them to produce, make their own calls and hand hold their clients . If had a very competitive program and I was paying a CSR on salary to turn around quotes... it could be worth it to pay for quality appointments knowing that the program and not the salesman will make or break the sale. In your part of the country relationships are more imporant than they are in some big metro areas. There are many ways to successfully sell insurance and no one way is best in every situation.

[jctwindad]

Volstrike,

Point well taken, there are variations, based on location and agency size. I have always worked in the Southeast. For the past 20 years in an area with a population of around 500,000. I have also worked in large cities (Nashville and Tampa). I have owned my own agency for 20 years, but spent 11 years working in Sales and Sales Management for brokers (Aon and Marsh). So, I can't speak for areas outside the Southeast, but I have been in both small city/large city environments, as well as medium size agency and large brokerage. From those experiences, I can honestly say that I have never seen any sales prospecting method work better than a Producer making his/her own sales calls. Many people are turned off by telemarketers, as previous postings have indicated, and a good Producer can get X dates, appointments, etc. in most cases where a telemarketer cannot. A good Producer can also use that opportunity to "qualify" the prospect, to determine whether you even take the account to the next step. Telemarketers are paid to do two things: Get X dates; and Get appointments. The quality of either is always suspect when using a telemarketer.

As you pointed out, some agencies have programs to market, and some have CSRs handle sales rather than Producers. In both of those cases, there is very little "selling" done. Rather, you get you info out to as many people as possible and become an order taker. That scenario might lend itself to using a telemarketer, but I would use an inhouse person versus an outside contractor.

My agency compensation to Producers is 35% of the agency commission for new and renewal business, with strong inhouse support from CSRs and Account Managers. So, I feel that the Producer is paid to not only sell, but also to prospect. Different strokes for different folks, definitely. But in most situations, I feel that having anyone other than the Producer prospect is a real mistake.

Finally, 12 days to UCLA. Go Vols!!!!!!!!!!

[meytai]

Even though i'm not at the level that you guys are at.. i appreciate these posts.. helps me avoid making the mistakes experienced people like you know not to make

Meytai

[InsMgmt]

Many successful agents employ Bullseye Marketing (narrowly focusing on a niche) and then working a Top 20 list of targeted prospects within that niche. This does not require spending thousands with these telemarketing firms. Typically, a scripted telemarketer is not going to get the introduction - in spite of claims of $200,000+ accounts being realized after a $64 investment. I suppose I could make the same claim about the lottery - a $1,000,000 win on a $1 investment - how often is that going to occur? Successful commercial account marketing does, however, require extraordinary service to your "A" list clients and then seeking referrals after the fact of delivering your proactive services. This may take the form of simply asking to whom your client is willing to introduce you or trying a reverse referral by asking who they know on your Top 20 list. In either case you need to work a narrowly defined niche, deliver great value to those clients, and then capitalize on that service by asking for referrals.

Get out there and network. Join the professional associations related to your niche and get involved. Keep marketing yourself and your company. Spend your money where you will see long term returns (sales training and continuing education - CIC, CPCU, etc.).

I would also recommend that agents investigate the course material and then enroll in their state IIA's Associate in Production (AIP) course, or, if they are members of a nationally ranked Top 100 Agency they will have Roger Sitkins (Sitkins International) or Randy Schwantz (The Wedge Group) sales training avialable to them. The AIP course will bring much of what is taught by Sitkins and Schwantz to the smaller agency producer.


Good Luck

Hal McFarland, CIC, ARM

(A 28 year, commercial-lines agent with no fees to charge or services to deliver to the readers of this forum.)