Hiring practices - small agency

[txinsurancemanager]

Why don't you just hire the "overqualified candidate"? Sure, you might have to pay a little more. But, you get someone who's already licensed, understands the terminology, can fill out any kind of application there is, knows the markets and typical pricing, and is less likely to create E & O problems. You might consider their pay scale as a base amount for handling the current accounts and an ATTRACTIVE commission for new business brought in by that person, plus residual commission on the business he/she brings in. Sort of a combination Acct Manager/Producer. Give them some rope & reward and you just might get one of the best Producers you ever had. Speaking from the commercial insurance stand point, IF you get an Account Manager that knows how to put together a new account, and knows how to market it, write the proposal, and present to the client, is this person not worth it to you? Besides that person would be able to train the people you hire from the grocery story, thereby relieving you of that burden as well.

Some agents appear to be afraid to hire the "overqualified" candidate, and it almost seems they are afraid that person will know more than they do. So what? Maybe they do. At the end of the day the money is still going to YOUR business, YOUR bank. No matter how long we're in this business, somebody ALWAYS knows something about it that we don't. The kind of people I know who fit the definition of an "overqualified CSR" still doesn't typically display the arrogance that can be found in other job titles in this industry so don't be intimidated.

As for all the "personality profiles" that are so popular these days....well, IMHO those are CYA for corporate HR depts to demonstrate that they really worked to be sure someone was "the best candidate". Why not just ask an experienced person for some client references? If they can't or won't come up with a couple of those, it's my opinion there's something wrong. As for the background check, why not just be very clear in your ad, your first phone contact, etc. that "a thorough background check will be performed". Let people rule themselves out by thinking about that!

If you must hire inexperienced people due to the cost, ask them for written letters of reference from a couple of their high school teachers, hopefully math and English teachers. We've all known a lot of people who were very good at talking to people but completely incompetent with the written word, details, numbers. Don't forget that the typical cashier these days cannot make change without the cash register telling them the exact amount and some even get confused with that.

[92builder]

I think I agree with the Dairy Queen comment to a point. As the single owner of my agency, I have been looking to "hire" someone as well, and I will admit I've made offers to some of those ppl working behind a counter and I'll tell you why.

What I've been looking for is PERSONALITY. You don't know if that person is a career minimum-wager, or someone who just moved to town and can't find anything at the moment; maybe they don't know you're hiring. If a person can smile, look me in the eye, and is fairly competent at their job, they may just be who I'm looking for. One of my current "hires" is a pipeline welder with an ag background who got his license b/c he's looking down the road and is tired of making a living with his back - he wants to use his brain! Don't tell me you can look at a person and in five seconds tell whether or not he/she is producer material.

I also don't really want a producer from the other agent down the road who may be accustomed to a certain way of doing business. I think I'd rather have them work on my system and get to know the way I do things in my agency.

Looks can be deceiving, guys.

[floridainsuranceguy]

This conversation started with a question concerning how a small agency screens and hires. I have a small personal lines agency and have no problem-hiring individuals without experience (Grocery clerk"¦). I don't want bad habits, I'm trying to fix my own. I have approached people in stores/shops when I'm out that seem to be friendly and outgoing. I just develop a conversation, I talk to them over time to find out if they are looking for something more from their employment/life (I currently have a small list I will approach for my next hire). I use to be a grocery stock clerk, some of use does want more out of life.

I do use Omnia profiling (http://www.omniagroup.com) when I think someone would workout. I've had them call me after completing a report just to make sure that I DO NOT hire an individual (this person had experience). I believe any profiling you use would be a benefit.

Interviewing is the hard part "" I use to talk too much. I learning by reading trade rags and anything else I can on the subject. I create a list of questions and listen. I try to learn if the person wants a job or an opportunity.

For the commercial lines CSR's that are insulted by the suggestion that someone outside the industry can learn it "" get over it. I think were talking apples and oranges. Yours is a skill job that I'm not qualified for. However not all CSR's do the same job, and we all must start somewhere. Low skilled people can learn the skills to do personal lines CSR stuff and my guess is those same people could learn to be commercial lines CSR

[CATHIEA]

Ok settle down now. I don't think anyone on this forum was trying to demean Csr's and all that they do. As a small agency owner, it's difficult to find and keep good people - we can't pay what the big houses pay. So we're forced to either train that "promising" dairy queen counter person or take the employee that has "problems". And yes once in a while you find that employee that reminds you of yourself at the beginning of your career and you can bring them along and invest in their education feeling confident you'll get a return on the investment. And since about the only jobs in this industry I haven't done over the past 30+ years are claims, inspections and loss control - I have a deep respect for the work done by CSR's. After all a good one can make an agency profitable but a bad one can make an owner a potential murderer.

[92builder]

Oh my, where do I start?
If you intend to keep your agency E&O insurance and your current and prospective clients, may I suggest you be a little more selective when hiring you CSR than hiring a Dairy Queen or grocery store clerk. I can't even believe anyone would think that a person with a background as a grocery store clerk could step into the shoes and responsibilities of a CSR.

Wow. So much for ever improving yourself in life. I've got to say that is a hell of an attitude. That is so wrong on so many levels. I'm really beside myself in what to say to that...

[independent guy]

Oh my, where do I start?
If you intend to keep your agency E&O insurance and your current and prospective clients, may I suggest you be a little more selective when hiring you CSR than hiring a Dairy Queen or grocery store clerk. I can't even believe anyone would think that a person with a background as a grocery store clerk could step into the shoes and responsibilities of a CSR.

Wow. So much for ever improving yourself in life. I've got to say that is a hell of an attitude. That is so wrong on so many levels. I'm really beside myself in what to say to that...

I really don't think this person is all that far off the mark. Not everyone WANTS to improve themselves, actually many people are content to be just in a comfortable position in life. For example, my cousin has an IQ of about 140, but he's a baker in a grocery store and doesn't care for anything more. If he wasn't also such an introvert, I'd be tempted to hire him. At least he'd have the brainpower to understand the consequences of his actions, unlike some of the CSRs we've had. We have been lucky that the actions of some of them haven't resulted in E & O claims. In an ideal world, everyone would have the drive to constantly strive to improve themselves. But not everyone is like that, and I"d prefer to hire someone who is always seeking to "sharpen the saw" as Covey would say.

[92builder]

Yes, I would agree that not everyone wants to step out from behind the counter, but that doesn't mean that it's a hard and fast rule. Hell, before developing my current agency, I cooked pizzas for five months.

What I'm saying is just b/c you see someone in a job, any job, it doesn't mean that it is their lot in life. If you see someone that you like and is personable and seems to have it going on upstairs, it don't hurt to speak to them about a career. And even then, you're not bound to hire them; just feel them out.

[independent guy]

Yes, I would agree that not everyone wants to step out from behind the counter, but that doesn't mean that it's a hard and fast rule. Hell, before developing my current agency, I cooked pizzas for five months.

What I'm saying is just b/c you see someone in a job, any job, it doesn't mean that it is their lot in life. If you see someone that you like and is personable and seems to have it going on upstairs, it don't hurt to speak to them about a career. And even then, you're not bound to hire them; just feel them out.

I know exactly what you mean and I agree with you.

[Dilbert]

My daughter was in college and was a server at Applebees. Because she was a hard worker, was conscientious and personable she was noticed by the HR representative of a large agency. After talking to my daughter about her major and plans after school the HR set up a formal interview and the required psychological profiling. So my daughter ended up going from part time at Applebee's to part time at the agency to where she is now a full time CSR and hoping to move into a producer role in the near future.

That person that is waiting on you at the grocery store or DQ may just be months away from finishing their degree, like my daughter was. Don't rule anyone out because of their current job.

[MAG]

I'm not "full of myself" and am entitled to my opinion like everyone else. The prior post I was commenting on gave the impression that a grocery store clerk could walk in and fill the shoes of an agency CSR. That is not true. Yes, a grocery store clerk can LEARN how to be a CSR if that person is motivated enough to really learn the trade but they can't just walk in and take over the position. The earlier comment may have not been intended to be belittling to the CSR position but it sure sounded that way. I was simply taking up for myself and many other CSRs who have worked in this industry for many years and worked darn hard to become an asset to our industry and employers.
I was not always an insurance professional either. We all have to start somewhere. I was a Kelly Girl temp back in the day and was hired at an insurance agency because I could type 98 words a minute and they needed an executive assistant. I went from typing letters to typing certificates of insurance, asked lots of questions, read lots of material and 18 years later here I am.
So, yes, I agree that a grocery store clerk or that Dairy Queen counter person can learn to be a CSR...but he/she has to have the pesonality, intelligence and drive to actually be one.
I read these boards every day because believe it or not, even this forum can be a learning experience - not always but it can.

[CATHIEA]

So back to the original question of where to find staff for a small agency... It seems the discussion got side tracked. I personally have learned from this that it's less important where you find "talent" as long as you recognize and nurture it. Maybe we small owners are going about this all wrong. Maybe we need to go back to spending time at the local high schools and college job fairs educating a younger generation about our industry. After all, when was the last time you heard a kid say they wanted to grow up and be an insurance agent?

[tsorrels]

Oh my, where do I start?
I have been a Commercial Accounts CSR for 18 years and am very proud of it. I too, however, hate the title "CSR" but that's what my agency calls my position.
Grocery store clerk my *SS

Here again, I think that most are missing the POINT of the ORIGINAL question.

The ORIGINAL question, and I repeat myself, is a S M A L L agency - and I would bet that the agency has not been in business for 18 years.

One could only wonder what you did BEFORE you got in the business?

Everyone has to start somewhere.....unless you were BORNE into the business.

[insopspro]

Think in terms of a machine. In a big environment, each employee is a little cog in a big machine. In a small independent agency environment, you are looking for a BIG cog in a small machine. You need someone who can take out the trash on one hand, and act with a level of professionalism and intelligence with your clients similar to your own on the other. You also need someone who is entrepreneurial in nature and is therefore willing to work as hard as you do because that is what your clients expect of the personal relationship you have with them.

There are two recommendations I've seen other people make to you that I would emphasize:

1) every small agency has their own way of doing things. Hiring someone you've seen in action - like a bank teller who impressed you or a really helpful sales clerk who seems better than their environment is a good idea. Teaching your way of doing business to this fresh slate is easier than hiring someone else's problem. Otherwise, you'll be lucky if you find a star from another agency who is willing to move. Good employees who are treated well don't want to move. Good employees who are treated poorly somewhere else bring baggage sometimes that is hard to overcome.

2) TEST everyone! We use two levels of testing... First, I will not even consider someone unless they pass a basic logic test. I use the Wonderlic test - it has questions like "In 20 days a boy saved one dollar. What is his average daily savings?" and then there are the "In the following set of words, which word is different from the others?" type questions. A high enough score establishes a level of intelligence I know I can work from. After a couple of rounds of interviews, a winning candidate is then given the Caliper, which not only tests their logic and reasoning skills, it also looks at their personality in comparison to me and the Agency Principle to insure we can all work together.

This may seem like a lot of work - but hiring someone and then finding out they are completely wrong, and having to start all over is a lot more time consuming. Anyone can make themselves look good on paper. Go beyond that.

My only other advise is to use the same base set of four or five questions with everyone. You can deviate from it as needed, but hearing the same questions answered different ways helps you better understand the differences in the candidates and their attitudes. These should be "Tell me about a time..." questions. "Tell me about a time you had a conflict with a customer (teacher, fellow student if hiring someone without experience). What happened and how did you handle it?" "Tell me about a time you were going to be late for (work/school). What happened and how did you handle it?" "Tell me about a time you couldn't finish a project on time. What happened and what did you do?".

I hope this helps. This is an area I have seen agencies struggle with for many years. If you want to send me a private message with your email address, I can forward you some of the tools I use (tests and answers, interview questions, politically correct reference check questions).

Best of luck.