Yellow Page ad co's filing suit-anyone experienced this?

[txinsurancemanager]

I did have an experience with one of those BIG NAME yellow page publishers in another city & state; in a business I owned previously and unrelated to insurance. My tab was about $65,000 and the ad had more than paid for itself for several years. They'd made a mistake that cost me a lot more than the bill they wanted to charge and I could PROVE it with my records and their ads.

As they began to pressure me for the money, I decided to see how good the BIG company's advertising liability insurance might be or where I could even find an attorney knowledgeable in advertising litigation to help me file a suit against them. After calling several NAME law firms and stating I wanted to sue the BIG company and needed someone capable of handling that, well....guess what I learned? The HUGE company had everyone of the big law firms on retainer. They all told me they couldn't take my case because of "conflict of interest". I never gave them the info I had to work with, just WHO I wanted to sue and could they do it.

Guess what happened in a few weeks? The Huge company's middle management brass came out for a visit. I merely stated that I had the records to prove what their poor advertising had done to me so what did they think they would do about THAT? Well, the big blow-up about wanting all that money went away. I rather think one of those law firms called the important folks at the BIG publisher - people I'd never meet in a million years. In fact, if more than one of them called the BIG company, it just might have gotten some attention. I don't know for sure...... Just giving you a report.

[AZINSAGENT]

TX,

Nice story, but not equitable or relevant. If YP made an error, they should have made it right without making you jump through hoops. Shame on them for not resolving your issue without the need for you calling in the sharks if you had the obvious goods on them. Especially if you were a long time client.

I too had a situation where the same YP provider as MH is dealing with screwed up, resulting in a loss of ad position after several years and ad placement way back in the directory. While ad placement is not even a part of the contract, (just a given) they quickly responded with an extremely reduced rate for that contract year, and rectified the positioning issue in the subsequent years.

This is totally different. MH and his partner were apparently totally blinded by "puffery", which is totally legal. There are now three major YP providers in the PHX metro area; Verizon, Dex, and Yellow Book, and knowing the price of a "Double truck" Phx metro ad in Dex, all I can say is "what the "H" were you guys thinking?".....

Either dump your advertised phone numbers and negotiate, or get out the Vasoline.... Who knows? Dex may make a deal. We can all dream....

Again, again, again,

Best wishes,



Suffering from Hyperhidrosis

[txinsurancemanager]

Of course the story isn't the same. My points in sharing the story were 1) yes, still fuming after all these years that they DIDN'T step up to the plate and admit their OBVIOUS error, 2) they bring money, connections, and time to any negotiating table (a small business owner doesn't have much of any of those) and 3) their company people you deal with have a corporate mentality and just do not understand or care what you have at stake. In all likelihood, I just lucked out or maybe they dropped it because we WERE long term customers.

I believe it's still true that so long as you pay your basic line charges on your number(s), the line cannot be disconnected (two different companies??). Therefore, if you have enough other types of advertising out there, you can keep your number. It's doubtful you'd be allowed back in the book any time soon with the same number or name......

Anyway, even after all this time, it still gives me a head ache and drives my blood pressure up to just talk about YP advertising. Let us know how it turns out. Possbily with the decreased YP usage vs internet searches, they might be more flexible these days.

[LCIS]

Well, the posts say enough, you seem to have enough legal knowledge to lead some to believe that you may be an attorney or have paralegal training. I don't think so. I think you have done enough research to figure out any way out that may be available. The truth appears to be that you screwed up and got involved in a contract that you had no way or desire to pay and suddenly it is someone else fault that YOUR ad that was approved did not produce calls, when you were never promised any such thing. As far as comparing financials, you do not even want to go there, if you are bitching about $181,000 bill that you can't pay.

Talk to the YP company and lay it on the line, you can not pay it, you do not want to pay it, but you are willing to pay a reduced fee to clear what ever may be left of your name, with the hopes that they may let you back in their book in the future. Phone book ads are horrifically expensive and large agencies do not rely on phone books, they do not produce the type of insurance business that large agencies want. Now if your an attorney, your on the back cover, the spine and you have a sticky note on the front cover and you make a killing, but thats because they are attracting the same client we don't want.

It's a contract plain and simply, if you are being billed for it you must be a party to the contract, if it is affecting you by terminating the listed number you must be a party to it, sorry.

[mhutch69]

LCIS,
my initial post asks for "anyone with experience in a similar matter". It seems that your "holier than thou" post attempts to provide an opinion which is, as you know, worthless. As you stated, the contract was in another corporate entity and there "may" have been some benefit to the subject corp. Therefore, as I originally asked, "has anyone experienced this"? Your attempt to "reprimand" me for any involvement in this action is rather assumptive on your part. You use initials for a reason... There meaningless to most anyone asked.

I did NOT post, "please provide me with your amateur legal opinions of the potential contractual liability of any related corporate entity"... Obviously, you have a high opinion of yourself as you infer having made no mistakes in your "professional" career by your arrogant post.

If you do not have what the post asks for, why do you respond with an egotistical rant? In thirty years of insurance experience responsible for over a half a billion in premiums, I do not care what you think of the advertising decision...nor do you impress me by "do not even go there regarding financials", which you are probably minimally responsible for, if at all. The common question today is "who did you buy"?

Any further opinions unrelated to the request can be sent to another website...

thanks for your complete understanding...

[LCIS]

Who do you think is to blame for your situation, did the YP company fail to deliver enough books, was the ad not printed as you approved, or did your X- partner make a bad decision. I have had plenty of experience with YP vendors and none have been pretty. The one thing I learned the first time I met with them is that the sales people are rarely honest, because they don't know what they are doing. They have the hopes of a HUGE commission if they scam someone into an ad. And in 37 years I have only seen the same sales person 2 years in a row, they can't make it very long because it is so expensive a large number or customers bail out after the book is published. I take FULL responsibility for the things I do, right or wrong, I did not buy out anybody, I did it with a few stumbles in the way on my own, and I might add that in all the years I have had yellow page ads in 3 books I still have not spent the $180k plus you spent in just one year, that was my decision and I don't blame anyone for that.
I will still give you the same advice, talk to them and try to reach a compromise or you will probably be very sorry. You did not give all the information in your original post regarding multiple parties and companies or corps being involved. If you were not a party to the contract I fail to see how you are affected by this at all, but you say you are affected. I am not aware of any yp publisher that will sell an ad in a name different than what the phone line in sold in. If they allowed this I could advertise as XYZ insurance company in a full page ad, list PDQ's phone number and reap all the benefit when I fail to pay for the XYZ ad. PDQ's number would be secure since the ad was placed under another name. We did a corporate name change last year and it took an act of congress to get the phone book ads to change one little word in our name, we had to have a letter from out local phone company. Buyers remorse is painful but rarely refundable. If you have done this for 30 years you should know how to handle YP reps by now. Every post is giving the same advice, take it or leave it. I am not reprimanding you, I just think you were an idiot for accepting a contract like this.

[92builder]

now, you boys just get along...

(Note to self: DON"T use this board for really, really serious issues that I may have done to myself.)

[mhutch69]

Thank all of you for your replies. My mistake for asking perfect people for their opinion of my mistake.

I fully intend to avoid these mistakes in the future.

As far as LCIS, your post calls me an idiot. I am happy to compare our agencies and/or our individual personal portfolios. You just contact me directly and we will work it out.

In the interim, until you have the balls to compare our financials, personal portfolios, etc., shut the f k UP!

Thanks,

[92builder]

Awww, c'mon Hutch. We all still love you. I truly feel bad for you and hope you can settle this in your favor.

[mhutch69]

I appreciate your support. I have actually made other mistakes in business over the years. One day, I hope to avoid these damn errors but until then, I will just have to negotiate my way.

Hope all is well with you.

[mhutch69]

To all respondents providing legal advice:

I avoided litigation with DEX by PROVING that I was ONLY willing to pay for the actual benefit obtained by the YP ad.

Dex settled for $20,000 on the bill of $181,000!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read that again.

I paid an additional $5,000 for quality representation.

SO, the total billing paid on the $181,000 Dex YP Ad which DID nothing to make my phones ring was $25,000.00.

For all the self-righteous junior lawyers, put that in your pipes and smoke it!!!!

The Hutchman!

[wlunday]

Hi Hutch. I remember the original post, and how it played out. I'm glad that you finally were able to work something out with them. I suppose you need to add the extra pain & suffering endured by you and your firm as additional costs.

I'm about ready to keep the $$$ I spend on YP ads and hire a part-time telemarketer. These YP guys drive me nuts with all of their overblown promises. Have a great rest of 2008!

Swymmer

[mhutch69]

Thanks Swymmer,

It was a hassle and the lawyer made some money as well. It sure beat paying for the contract balance. All YP ads except for the online versions have just stopped working well enough to pay their actual costs.

We post ourselves in a listing position using a DBA under Abacus or others like that. But, the calls we get barely pay for the listing costs.

I am unsure what the owners of the books are going to do. They mostly paid in the billions for the cashflows. The books are filled more and more with YP ads about themselves to fill pages.

I am done. I learned and got off cheap.

Hutch