CIC or CRM

[Odessian]

Guys, I need your advise. I planned to complete both CIC and CRM designations this year but so far I have failed both CIC classes I took. Should I postpone my CRM or not do it at all? How valuable is it?

[volstrike3]

FOr me, CRM classes/tests are much more difficult than CIC. I only failed one CIC class (Agency Management in Las Vegas) and that was my own fault (for taking it in Las Vegas:) but passed the other institutes on the first try. I am 0-2 on CRM classes and have come to the conclusion I am not cut out for risk managing mega ($1M + in premium) accounts. If your struggling with CIC classes... I would save your money and not attempt CRM classes.

[Statler]

Flash Cards!!! Make Flash Cards every night over the material you were taught that day. then the night before the test all you have to do is drill them. I don't know why the National Alliance doesn't sell them along with the books.

[hhrchevy]

I am a CIC, but did not pass every examination the first time. But, I am also an ACSR, CLU, and CPCU and had problems on some of those exams as well. I have sat through 3 CRM courses (for CIC required CE) and found them very informative but will not attempt the examinations. Stick with the CIC, for now. After you have that info, try the CRM but only if you will really be using the material on your job. I am "scholar slick but experience stupid" with all of my designations. I would have taken a different path if I thought things out. I am only making $35,000 yr with all of the "alphabet soup" behind my name because I still only have 3 years hands on experience. I hope that helps you in making your decision.

[gregcw]

Guys, I need your advise. I planned to complete both CIC and CRM designations this year but so far I have failed both CIC classes I took. Should I postpone my CRM or not do it at all? How valuable is it?

FOr me, CRM classes/tests are much more difficult than CIC. I only failed one CIC class (Agency Management in Las Vegas) and that was my own fault (for taking it in Las Vegas:) but passed the other institutes on the first try. I am 0-2 on CRM classes and have come to the conclusion I am not cut out for risk managing mega ($1M + in premium) accounts. If your struggling with CIC classes... I would save your money and not attempt CRM classes.

I agree with volkstrike3 that the CRM is more difficult. Why are you trying to get them both in one year? I also don't think that you need to get both designations unless you are going to be working a lot with commercial insurance which is where Risk Management becomes more integral to both quoting AND advising.

[gregcw]

Guys, I need your advise. I planned to complete both CIC and CRM designations this year but so far I have failed both CIC classes I took. Should I postpone my CRM or not do it at all? How valuable is it?

You don't say how long you have been an agent but I think that to try and get EITHER designation in just one year is extremely ambitious. I think that is part of the reason that they give you five years to complete the series.

I began taking CIC institutes after I had been licensed for seven years. I did it because I was coming from being an encumbered (Farmers Insurance Group) agent to being an independant agent (19 years ago) and felt that I needed to learn how the other side operated.

Flash Cards!!! Make Flash Cards every night over the material you were taught that day.

Statlers idea of Flash Cards is certainly one way to do it. At all of the institutes that I went to, we formed study groups on the last night before the exam. I did mine in the Pacific Northwest where we take the institute from noon Wenesday through Friday afternoon and then take the exam on Saturday. I know that is what contributed to being able to do them five for five. I also know that what Farmers gave me in the way of training didn't help except in the Life Institute, and that only because they over-emphasized and over-trained in LIfe.

I have sat through 3 CRM courses (for CIC required CE) and found them very informative but will not attempt the examinations. Stick with the CIC, for now. After you have that info, try the CRM but only if you will really be using the material on your job.

I also agree with volstrike3 to a degree and hhrchevy entirely, the alphabet soup does NOT put more money in your pocket.

The CIC does give you a good grounding in the operation of the agency (Agency Management Institute) and the needs of your customers (the other institutes). The CRM designation would not be critical unless you were working heavily in Commercial. As the principal in my agency I have concentrated on the Agency Management and the advanced Agency Management Practices institutes. The entire purpose of CIC is to better understand insurance, and the business, to better serve your customer. I have taken one CRM class and have concentrated on the Ruble Seminars and other Advanced Coverage institutes for updates. I have also taught CISR classes.

[sk42]

The CIC and CRM are slightly different emphasis. Not sure your experience in industry or job functions to make that determination. If you are an agent/broker, you may want to check out the Institutes Accredited Adviser in Insurance (AAI) Program. The AAI is another well-respected designation for broker/agent community. The program is more flexible (3 courses that you can either self-study or take class) than the CIC, and they now offer the courses in segment format in certain states. I really enjoyed the coursework, and found it easier to fit within my work schedule/load than the CIC. In terms of another comparable program in risk management would be the Institutes ARM (Associate in Risk Management) program. Both the AAI and ARM were instrumental in expanding my knowledge in the areas of agency management, risk management, insurance and sales productions that provided me additional credibility with my clients/carriers and marketability in the workforce. Good luck!

[CDW SoCal]

I found out that once one has paid for a CRM course the entire workbook is on line and available for download. I passed all five courses on the first take because I had downloaded the coursework and began studying 4 to 6 weeks PRIOR to showing up for the actual classes. I also made flash cards as I studied in advance of the sessions.

Key to CRM is to study ONLY what is covered by the instructor from the text. While some of the other information is of interest it is not germain to the exams.

And I also agree - trying to take all nine courses in one year is admirable but not very practical

[kevinraz]

CIC for me. I've gone 5 for 5 on CIC classes, 0 for 1 on CRM. It was a great class, decent teachers but a different perspective. Also the scoring methodology is different: in CIC they go through your test, if/when you have 140 points (70%) they stop since you've passed. For CRM they grade each question for each student at the same time - they grade all question #1's first, then move on the #2, etc. They do all the tests and then total your score. This leads to comparisons against other testers and is a harder format to conquer.

Note: If your having trouble passing CIC classes you might need more experience in the industry. I waited until I'd been at it for over 5 years before I started.

[Sundance]

Odessian, not sure if it is admirable or crazy (just kidding) to try and accomplish one let alone BOTH in one year. As was previously said, they give you 5 years for a reason.

Yes it would be nice to know how long and just what you've been doing in the business before giving a straight answer but if you are new...well CISR would be the way to go then move onto CIC then CRM or Rubles etc. CISR gives an excellent base to begin with and lets you "test the waters" before the other courses. If you have not been in the business long and have failed 2 CIC exams...well take note of the comment on the registration form stating it is desired (but not required) that you have at least 2 (active) years in the P&C business.

And $35K...well whowever said that above...as we all know, we are not always paid what we are worth or think we are worth...$35K in a rural community would be big dollars, $35K in Houston...not so much

[hhrchevy]

Hi Sundance, I work in Trenton, NJ. Yes, I think my salary is low as well but you are right in that a company does not always think so. My latest evaluation was 4.5 overall with 5 being the highest. Yet, my raise was 1.3% which does not pay for the gas I use to get here. All that education (CPCU, CLU, CIC, ACSR, ITP and my masters in public administration) was a waste so far. I am trying to get another job, however.

I hope CIC works for our "newest" soon-to-be receipient. Good luck to him and everyone else plowing away at these designations!

[hollas]

I both a CIC and a CRM. I never failed a course, so I may not be the best person to ask. Having said that, you should concentrate on the learning objectives as 80% or more of every exam I have taken comes directly from the learning objectives. Use flash cards or rewrite the learning objectives (followed by the answers) in a yellow tablet. Study from one or both of those each and every night adding the new material each day as you go -if you wait until the night before the test, you are toast. Finally, stay at the hotel where the program is being presented the night before the exam to avoid the temptation to go by the office and/or go home. You do not need those distractions (or a flat tire on the way to the hotel the morning of the exam). Hang in there. It is 'do-able'. Remind yourself that if it were easy, the designation(s) would not be worth very much.

[kevinraz]

One more comment - I talked with staff at the SCIC, they said that the pass rate is only about 60%.

[JackJM]

Odessian,

I've been at this game for 31 + years. I failed the first CIC I took and tended to shy away from them for a while. Finally, in 1995, I started up, again, and completed the deisgnation in 1998.

For over 20 years, my concentration has been commercial lines. However, with most main street type business that I write, forays into more than very basic risk management, are few. Very few of my clients, from the $350 to the $250,000 ones, have exposures that would warrant full-blown risk assessment. Usually, standard industry-specific questionnaires prove most valuable for use with my clients.

At one point in my career, I worked at a very large agency whose clients could benefit from risk management. However, most of them hired insurance consultants, so we were more policy procurers than advisors.

CIC will prepare you best for work as a producer or csr. CRM would suit you more if you are working in the risk management department of a firm.

Regarding the AAI programs, I am not convinced that they offer much. I just took two of them to fulfill my CE requirements. I found both AAI 81 & AAI 82 to be too skimpy to be of real value.

[Odessian]

Thank you everyone!!! I really appreciate your advices and help.