Career Change to Life Insurance from P&C Commercial

[txinsurancemanager]

I have found myself making a strange transition from 20 years of Commercial P&C Work to selling final expense insurance. I'm not alone in this strange move. I have several friends who've been forced to try this with the economic woes we find ourselves in these days.

I found an agency based in another state and have started working with them. They provide free leads each week, provided the salesperson is able to "keep sales coming in" from the previous week.

These leads are obtained by computer calling, a brief message about life insurance and asks for the person's name and date of birth/age.

I am in the early first few weeks of this but I'm finding the leads seem to be all wrong. Most of the people deny ever hearing any kind of message about life insurance. Yet, I have their name and their date of birth. I would say people were lying but there are just too many of them on a relatively short list. With these leads, there's no way I'm going to maintain a good sales record week to week (and continue to get the free leads).

So my questions are these. Does anyone know much about leads generated in this fashion? Do these generally produce fair to good results? How could they get this information from people who did not think they were responding to anything about life insurance? There seems to be about a 50% rate of people who deny giving this information or even receiving this call.
Does this sound like a workable plan or just a huge waste of time and gas money (I put 245 miles on the car last week going to pick up apps from people who I'd interested over the phone). My results were incredibly below average I thought. But maybe not so bad for a beginning attempt.

I'm just interested to hear from anyone who works in this field or has knowledge to respond to my questions. Thanks so much for your input.

[alx730]

First of all, "Final Expense" Insurance sounds like a VERY small policy and a great rule for sales is don't sweat the small stuff. You're going to be spending close to the same amount of time closing a $15K burial policy as you would a $5mil term. Why waste your time?

Second, whatever your gut is initially telling you about these folks you're dealing with and the "leads" they're generating for you will almost always be correct... they're SHADY. If I were you, I'd go back to P&C... especially if this is your first and only foray into Life sales.

[ED3771316]

If you want to sell life, then sell on buy-sell agreements from the commercial clients that are partnerships you service.
How about key employee life insurance?
Also, work on group life with youe existing Commercial Accounts.

You have a natural market in place, you are already in the door, they trust you, use it to your advantage.

[txinsurancemanager]

I appreciate your comments very much; very good advice. The situation is that I am currently not working at all and I'm having very little luck finding anything in P & C Commercial work available in my area. Now if I were just an adjuster, there seems to be lots of work but I have no experience in adjusting and I'm not finding an open door for "on the job" training at my age. So I am doing what has presented itself.

You are correct about spending the same amount of time chasing a small policy premium. However, the offers that come across my desk to sell Life & Health products seem even more shady - and believe me, I have them emailing and calling all the time.

Perhaps I'm just not used to the style of Life & Health as opposed to P & C Commercial. It's a vastly different creature with very different stripes!

[jimmyr1978]

I'm currently a commercial P&C agent, but my background is working for a large, national advertising/marketing firm that worked with many Fortune 500 insurance companies doing direct response lead generation campaigns (many of you have seen the work in print and on TV). The type of leads they're generating are not only bogus, but they're borderline unethical. Robocalls tarnish your brand, and generate a 0.01% response rate or lower, with conversion rates at 10% or lower. The only reason they're still used is because the cost to run a robocall campaign is minuscule.

My advice? Find a new gig. You're going to burn out very quickly chasing "leads." Go watch Glengary, Glen Ross if you want to know what your future looks like pursuing bad leads.

[txinsurancemanager]

jimmyr,

Thanks so much for your input, especially your comments about the quality of the leads. That was always what I thought about "robo" calls. I'm amazed people answer them at all.

I've actually sold a half dozen policies in the past 2 weeks, which I didn't think was all that bad considering what I'm working with and the fact I've never sold these kinds of policies before.

But I was informed yesterday that "everyone else in your training class is doing just fantastically well so we need to figure out what's wrong".

I've made 50 some calls already today and set NO appointments. People deny ever giving their information, tell me I have a wrong number, just hang up, tell me no one by that name lives here, and some just get rude and offensive. I have leads that are 1 week old, 2 weeks old, 2 months old, and 6 weeks old. The weird thing is there's no difference in the response based on the age of the leads; in fact, the ones that are a bit older are actually better.

Believe me when I say I'm leaving no stones unturned looking for another gig. Even considering moving out of state.

[wlunday]

I know another guy that's had a similar experience with Banker's Life & Casualty. He went ahead and spent the money and purchased what turned out to be a better source of leads from a reputable vendor... and is doing a bit better, now. The leads BL&C provided had the exact same results that you are experiencing... "I didn't send anything in! I didn't talk to anyone!"

Some of the other advice you've received is sound... work with the business owners. Review their needs for business related coverage like Buy-Sell funding, Key Person coverage, as well as their personal Life & DI needs. Don't forget Long-Term Care Insurance. Did you that sole-Props can write off the whole premium for themselves & their family members? This alone is a great door-opener! Good luck in the new career.

Wayne Lunday, LUTCF, CLU, ChFC

[Phils]

Although it likely won't make any difference, I'd be asking to see the numbers of your peers that the company claims are doing so much better.

I'm reminded of our company that so many times says "... you are the only one experienceing this problem..." when I know for a fact otherwise.

Phil

[txinsurancemanager]

Phils,

My thoughts exactly. However, it likely would not be given to me and would not be seen in a very good light.

I'm kicking myself because I rarely leave any kind of seminar or training without getting someone's phone number but unfortunately, that's exactly what happened this time. So I have no way to call any of my peers to compare notes. Let that be a lesson to me!!

Thanks for your input.

[pita3333]

I bet that with some effort you could find some via posts here, linkedin and other similar places.

[txinsurancemanager]

Michael,

I think you are right. I've done a little searching this morning and will try some more.

[jimmyr1978]

I know another guy that's had a similar experience with Banker's Life & Casualty. He went ahead and spent the money and purchased what turned out to be a better source of leads from a reputable vendor... and is doing a bit better, now. The leads BL&C provided had the exact same results that you are experiencing... "I didn't send anything in! I didn't talk to anyone!"

Some of the other advice you've received is sound... work with the business owners. Review their needs for business related coverage like Buy-Sell funding, Key Person coverage, as well as their personal Life & DI needs. Don't forget Long-Term Care Insurance. Did you that sole-Props can write off the whole premium for themselves & their family members? This alone is a great door-opener! Good luck in the new career.

Wayne Lunday, LUTCF, CLU, ChFC

I have designed campaigns identical to Bankers (and used to work with ex-Bankers employees who developed those lead generation campaigns). They are among the best in the business as far as company ROI goes, and Bankers does operate marketing campaigns ethically unlike some of their competitors. The biggest issue is that you send millions of mailers with a free offer, perhaps a calculator or road atlas, or a Medicare booklet. With the offer, you generate a 0.5% - 1.5% response rate (better offer, better response). The giveaway dilutes the quality of the responders and decreases the conversion rate. However, Bankers looks at long-term ROI. They know they make $X from a certain policy, factoring in average retention rate, avg premium, actuarial figures, etc. Using the series of calculations below based on very large sample size (>50,000 responses and >5,000 sales to develop the model correctly), they judge a campaign. The science behind this is incredible, and is often managed by PhD-level statisticians who develop algorithms to predict results.

[Target Universe] x [Response Rate] x [Conversion Rate] = #Customers x [Avg Premium] x [Avg Years Retention] x [Profit Margin] = Lifetime Profit. Lifetime Profit/Cost Per Sale. If the Lifetime Profit/Cost Per Sale > 1, then you've made a return. Most likely, you need a return of 1.03 or greater to continue a campaign.

Many operations are not nearly as sophisticated. They say, "We spent $1, you need to go make us $2." Statistically, that can be unreasonable. If you are planning on signing up with a company that operates like Bankers, ask them how campaigns are developed. Are they using modeling to send out solicitations? Will there be a free offer? What is it? What is the historical response rate? Conversion rate?

If they don't know or won't provide this information, head to the next shop that will.

[scott]

Why not use your knowledge of the P&C industry and work with independent agents in your area selling their clients life products?

There are signs that the economy is starting to turn. People who have been in panic-mode will settle down and financial products that offer safety will become more attractive.

At a non-insurance event not long ago I asked the audience who had life insurance equal to 5x their income. About 5 hands in 100 went up. The majority had less than 2x. A shocking number had 1x.

There is tremendous opportunity selling life insurance.

I predict that annuities will also make a comeback as a preferred retirement vehicle. Position yourself for that boom.

As the baby boomers start to die off there will be a tremendous transfer of wealth as those who accumulated assets pass those assets to their kids. Wouldn't annuities be a great place for the kids to park some of that money?

As baby boomers think about their mortality some will want to protect their money from their kids who may not be great money managers. However, the baby boomers want there to be money so the grandchildren can go to college. How can life insurance and/or annuities be used to accomplish that?

Disability and long term care have been mentioned. Amazingly undersold.

[Russmann]

I like Scott's suggestion - most agents I know would not sell a life policy if their own depended on it. I enjoy working with ex-direct writers who are expected to include this in their mix of sales.

Great job with the success you've had! Every sales manager I've worked for always says to the next guy that the last guy was doing great and that they need to work harder. That's just the way it is.

As someone who has had to take pretty awful leads in his career, I would question why you care whether or not the caller remembers giving permission for the lead. The only reason the "lead" is important is that it gives you a reason to give a pitch to your prospect. If I'm following up on a lead like that, my question is something like, "Hi, do you remember speaking with us about an opportunity to protect your family from the burden of final expenses?" The only acceptible response I would recommend is "Well, fine!" and then go in to your pitch. Whether they answer yes or no ... DOESN'T MATER!! For the benefit of your company and to improve the process, I would log the caller's "no" answers ... but I expect you're doing that anyway.

As a word of encouragement, there are precious few people who can do what you do. I expect of 100 they recruit that the folks still doing it after 90 days is fewer than 5. If you can sell this, you can sell anything. It's great training for where ever you end up.

Rus

[txinsurancemanager]

"As someone who has had to take pretty awful leads in his career, I would question why you care whether or not the caller remembers giving permission for the lead. The only reason the "lead" is important is that it gives you a reason to give a pitch to your prospect. If I'm following up on a lead like that, my question is something like, "Hi, do you remember speaking with us about an opportunity to protect your family from the burden of final expenses?" The only acceptible response I would recommend is "Well, fine!" and then go in to your pitch. Whether they answer yes or no ... DOESN'T MATER!! For the benefit of your company and to improve the process, I would log the caller's "no" answers ... but I expect you're doing that anyway."

Thanks for your message Russmann.

Interesting you should ask why I care if they remember. I didn't mention that with these free leads comes a "mandatory" script. We were grilled on the script they gave us. Many were rejected because they couldn't memorize (robot) the script. So after two weeks of working that script and not having the success the company wanted, I was sent a "better" script to use. If the leads are bad, the script is not going to matter much, especially if the lead's first reply is "no one by that name lives here". Anyway, in the script in the second sentence is "you replied to our phone survey". At that very point people start back-peddling and denying. We were given several answers to that objection that are meant to jog their memory but have the sound of "why are you lying to me, I've got the proof right here".

Your suggestion sounds like a really good one and I'm going to use that today. The worst problem I have is "no answers". A lot of people on these lists don't answer the phone at any time, which tells me they have a caller ID and won't take a call from a number they don't know. One answered phone out of 20 to 30 leads (after 6 attempts to reach them) is a frustrating list for me. Yet, I have proof they answered the phone once to do the survey.