Anyone with opinion on EZBuy electronic signatures

[darnovak]

If you do not physically meet with the insured, how do you do your OFAC compliance? How do you verify they are the person in the government issued photo ID they have to provide and you have to keep on file? Never heard of OFAC or think agents and brokers do not have to comply? WRONG! I am curious how you are maintaining compliance with OFAC requirements? Please explain. Thank you.

[Kelso II]

darnovak, I think your question would be better answered by an attorney since the OFAC is about enforcing “economic sanctions programs primarily against countries and groups of individuals, such as terrorists and narcotics traffickers”. Regardless, how does physically meeting them make you compliant? How do you know that the name on the “government issued photo ID’ is their real name? As with any insurance application, we get tons of information on the insured. In addition to the basics like name and address there is vehicle info, registration info, occupation, employer, employer address, proof of prior insurance, MVR’s, CLUE reports, leinholder name and address, sometimes SSN, credit card info, copy of utility bill if needed and so on. We even get the IP address from the computer they used to electronically sign the application. It is no less information then if they were sitting face to face except it is without the face. It is no different than doing an insurance sale by fax, or buying direct online from GEICO, Progressive Direct and others where there is no face or pictures of faces. Can anybody lie about it? Certainly just like they can lie in person with a fake ID containing false information. But I have found that those who may lie usually do so to cover a prior claim or deny that they waived something, either of which can be flushed out by an astute claims rep or by contradiction with all the other things that they signed. Isn’t it “convenient” that I can pay my taxes online to the IRS without seeing them or renew my driver’s license, vehicle registration, register to vote, vote absentee all without being face to face. I find it equally convenient, and counter to your point, that these days more and more insurance carriers are not requiring copies of driver’s licenses. If this were an issue here in California, you can bet that the Department of Insurance would be all over it and fine producers because the DOI here is always looking for opportunities to shake down the industry. But so far, nothing. If I’m not mistaken, the gist and spirit of OFAC, which stands for Office of Foreign Assets Control, is more about the bad guys and money laundering. In over 20 years in this business, I have never had anybody even mention this nor has it been brought up as a looming issue in any sort of seminar or by carriers, who would most likely be on the hook as I am their agent (their employee). Since there have been no red flags, anywhere, I’m comfortable selling both face to face and online. But if only selling face to face makes you comfortable, there’s nothing wrong with that.

[mica.cooper]

Kelso, you seem to be confused. OFAC is Federal and all carriers and agents are subject. The California DOI, as weird and messed up as it is, understands that it is not their role as a state entity to enforce OFAC.

This seems to be a thread promoting EZBuy as opposed to opinions on the technology. We seem to have a cloaked company rep and a compensated agent pushing it.

[darnovak]

Contact your agent association and check it (OFAC compliance) out folks. All agents and brokers are required to comply with OFAC. As a matter of fact, all U. S. persons are required to comply with OFAC. Yes, Kelso II there exist fake IDs and identity theft so we perform our due diligence, properly document, and retain evidence as required by OFAC. As you are most likely ignoring OFAC (on the advice of your attorney?), all I can comment is: "Have a pleasant day."

[Kelso II]

mica.cooper, interesting how this thread has gotten off track from the original topic posed and now being twisted around. Also, I do know that OFAC is Federal and I don't pretend to be any sort of expert on OFAC. That is why I suggested that the question is better posed to a lawyer. I don't even know the expertise of the person who brought it up. But I suspect that there is more to the conditions and application of it then the general, blanket one size fits all way the question was stated. In fact, I only mention the CA DOI because of their propensity for stirring things up, even when it isn't in their jurisdiction. So I apologize for not making it clearer. I suspect that if this was a major issue in my niche of the industry, the Feds would issue bulletins or come down on the carriers who would then come down on you and me. I haven't received anything have you? By the way, are you getting and storing a gov't. photo ID of every single insured you write? Do you even know for a fact that is what you need to do? I think it would be safe to conclude that most of us who are reading this banter are producers who sell auto, home, commercial, life, health, etc. So, how does OFAC apply to a an unknown terrorist buying car insurance because he wants to meet state financial requirements? Or perhaps the unknown international drug dealer who buys a renters policy? In other words, everybody I encounter, the high risk driver who needs an SR22 or the local business man who buys a BOP policy is a suspect for terror, pushing drugs or an agent for a terrorist state? My limited understanding of OFAC is about terrorists, drug dealers and unsavory foriegn countries (like North Korea) who may be getting funds funneled through laundering means from here. Perhaps I'm wrong in that understanding. If so, tell me how that applies to a guy who randomly buys an auto insurance policy from me? Logic dictates that perhaps it is more about bigger money transactions like annuities or insurance investments transacted on Walls St. I can go in the bank and deposit or withdraw money. But if one of those transactions is $10,000 or more, the bank has to notify the Feds. Under $10K there is no reporting. I suspect that similar conditions and triggers are in place for OFAC. But if that is not the case and every single insured is a suspect, then I think the boat would be full of violators of this rule including GEICO, Progressive Direct and and every other online seller. By the way, did I mention EZBuy by name in my last post? In fact I believe I did not mention it by name in my last two posts. But you seem to like to dwell on it. Not sure what you're reading but my comments were more on the technology and how I like it (opinion). Also my final statement in the last post was, "...if only selling face to face makes you comfortable, there’s nothing wrong with that". Can't be any clearer than that.

[choicenotchance]

Mica....I swear you have an axe to grind about EZBuy. So if I support the use of EZBuy you say that I'm getting paid to promote it....when in reality...I'm just a small agency that uses EZBuy & has had success with it. So I guess opinions to you are just people bagging on the technology & why it won't work?

So really...this has turned out to be a thread of why mica.cooper doesn't like EZBuy. And if someone posts something positive about the technology then you accuse them of either getting paid off or working for the company.

I am curious about the OFAC thing though...because none of my attornies.... or insurance companies that I write with have every brought it up. I do know that plenty of agencies (at least here in California) do fax deals & they don't ever see the people and that has been happening for years.

Also...How does ESurance, Unitrin Direct, Progressive, Geico, Answer Financial, etc deal with this issue? They have been covering people through the interent for longer than I have had my agency.

[DocuSign]

I'm in California so I'm not all that familiar with Michigan carriers. I can tell you that I use it here with Mercury, Infinity, Safeco and a bunch of others. I use it with Arrowhead General as well which I think is in Michigan. One of the things about asking a carrier is asking the right person. I'd get all kinds of different responses when I just asked the marketing reps. I've found that carriers tend to be conservative when approached with new things. I would start a conversation with one carrier person then end up having to re-explain myself to someone else, who was suppose to be a decision maker, only to get past off to another person. But I did find that most of the carriers considered it when enough of my agent friends asked as well and we got to the right person. If you are the first (or one of the first) to ask in Michigan, it may be more of an awareness thing. Once the carriers understood that it would help me sell more of their product, safely, then everything was fine.

It's An from DocuSign - I'm responsible for understanding what people are talking about online and being helpful. Thank you, Kelso, for sharing about your experiences in terms of what carriers are looking for. What information can I provide to help you and others like you get past carriers' objections?

I have a white paper on the Legality of Electronic Signature: http://www.docusign.com/images/resource ... ussion.pdf

As well as an insurance specific resource page, with information on selecting an e-signature vendor, demos, white papers on electronic signature compliance and more:
http://www.docusign.com/insurance/insurance

Let me know what else I can do to help or if you'd like to get in touch, you can email me at an dot bui at DocuSign dot com.

Best,
An

[choicenotchance]

So this is interesting.... How did an EZbuy opinion thread turn into a DocuSign ad? Is An a freind of yours mica? I mean seriously....An has 1 post...this one.

Now it all makes sense why you were bagging on EZBuy!

[mica.cooper]

Well,

The DocuSign guy responded to Kelso, not me. I have no relationship with them, nor do I use the product. Kelso has yet to come clean, nor have you chancer with only a few of posts, with both of you ONLY POSTING about EZBuy.

Why did I ask about it? Its irks me to see such outright shilling for a tech and not being forthcoming. This is peoples lives. Mess it up and they don't get mortgage insurance, a loss is not covered. Lead an agent astray and they lose a license or get an E&O.

I think it is in every agents best interest, to properly evaluate and weigh the consequences, and be given truthful information. There is more than one tech out there, and I would like to see a fair discussion about it. Its not just about making sales. We obviously have different standards.

[choicenotchance]

Allright Mica....

Full disclosure from my end....we will see if we will get it from your end.

I am a small agency outside of Palm Springs, CA. I was struggling 3 years ago...almost out of business. I went to a conference here in Palm Springs & saw the EZBuy product. I found out that the product was developed by at a local agency. The agency owner at that time was/is very well known in California. The agency is Freeway Insurance & the owner was Kelly Turton. I mention his name only because he is widely respected in California insurance. The guy started from nothing like me...and grew his business across the state...and unlike a number of other agencies at the time... he was known for having ethical business practices. I did my checks with my attorney... my carriers....the DOI. All said that they had no problem with the EZBuy product. At that time I also saw the DocUSign product. DocUSign had a 'teaser' rate to get me started... so in all honesty I thought that product might be a better route to take. At that time... EZBuy only supported Auto Insurance. My attorney was fine either way... EZBuy or DocUSign. My carriers here in California preferred EZBuy. So due to the initial 'teaser' rate with DocUSign I started with them. After using them for a little over a month I quickly found out that their fees definitely add up so I dropped them & signed up with EZBuy.

Since that time.... I now have 2 full time agents in my office that work their tails off. I get internet leads... I do craigslist & facebook frequently and sell throughout the state. Could I have done that without EZBuy....probably. I could have chosen any e-signature vendor. Really... i could have worked even harder & just done it by fax... or scanned everything in & then limited myself to emailing to the customers that had access to fax or scanners. I just thought that the EZBuy process fit the way I do business better than any other solution.

I have been on the insurance journal for years... but never really had a good reason to post. I then saw the title 'Anyone with opinion on EZBuy electronic signatures'. When I started reading it.... Kevin's last paragraph states,
'Also, I would just like to get some impressions from any agencies that use it as to its ease of use and the workflow issues. Is it really a timesaver? How well do customers take to the process? Is more business written as a result of being able to sign at the time of quoting?'

So being the small town agency owner that I am I thought it would be good to let this guys know that the product worked for me & how it has worked for me.


So that's my story... how about yours? Have you ever sold a policy? What part of the industry do you come from? Why on earth a DocuSign person would put an add out on here I have no idea...pretty cheesy if you ask me & maybe they are afraid of EZBuy.

From what I can read in the guy's initial posting....it doesn't mention anything as you put it....'There is more than one tech out there, and I would like to see a fair discussion about it. Its not just about making sales'.
So maybe you should start another thread on that topic if you want a fair discussion about it…but I don’t think that’s what this guy was after.
The guy simply wanted an opinion of EZBuy from people that have used it... and you try to take this thread to personal insults & accusations to try & prove your point that your standards are better than mine?

Sad.

Good luck to you.

[InsureLord]

Boy this is better than a reality show so I had to chime in. I came into my office with my Starbucks today. Yes I sell insurance on Saturdays, and I thought I would do a quick little evaluation of this circus before my first customers arrives. While sipping my latte I tried to tally all the posters by their comments on the topic and if they use the product. Although not scientific I thought everyone reading might find it entertaining.

Positive
KPIA (eventual user)
Kelso II (user)
Chris294 (non-user)
Choicenotchance (user)
Mhutch 69 (non-user I think)
d’s insurance store (sounds like a user)
Some Positive & Negative
michga11 (non-user)
Negative
mica.cooper (non-user)
darnovak (non-user)
Shameless Sales Predator
An Docusign

So Mica, why is it that you are outnumbered by other posters with positive comments on the topic yet you accuse others of being up to no good? Also you say, “Its irks me to see such outright shilling for a tech” yet you are silent about the blatant out of nowhere sales pitch by An Docusign. This stuff makes me wonder what your agenda is and how is it that you have time to make 124 posts on the Insurance Journal? Also, are you the Mica Cooper, CEO at http://www.Aisus.com that I googled on the internet? If so, that homemade website sure is funny man and doesn’t help your credibility. Judging from your responses I’m sure you will try to discredit me or throw me under the bus like some of the others. But that’s ok. I can take it and trust those who read all of your posts are smart enough to see through your contradictions. I love the laugh so keep on posting here while the rest of us are busy selling insurance.

[mica.cooper]

Really,
Another shill with one post?

[InsureLord]

And good morning to you Mica. Mica, Mica…why the name calling? I’m on your side my amigo. Everyone has to start somewhere. Did someone call you a shill on your first posting? But that’s okay if you want to re-direct readers away from my questions for you, although others are expected to be accountable to you. You are just fascinating with all your knowledge and now 125 opinions on pretty much everything out there. I, and perhaps others, are curious about the wealth of knowledge and experience you have on such a wide variety of topics. What better source then your Airus.com website. Your bio on that site, that is if it’s yours, says the following: (if this isn’t you then I’m sorry for the confusion)

Chief Executive Officer
Mica Cooper is a long term veteran of the insurance industry. He has 10 years of experience with AMS Services Inc. He has also served as Chief Operating Officer of CONCO.NET, and built http://www.hotels.com.

Very nice. All summed up in three sentences. I like how you dedicate more than three sentences to most of your
posts on this forum. A man of few words on his work experience yet generous with his opinions on subjects and others here on the Insurance Journal Forum. Very cool. So you are a long term veteran of the insurance industry? Exactly how long is long term my friend? 10 years at AMS is only getting your feet wet so I assume there is more. Have you ever sold retail like most of us hard working stiffs or just one of those guys who talks the talk but hasn’t walked the walk? Let’s see, COO for CONCO.NET. Sounds impressive. But I’m curious, why is it when you google CONCO.NET it comes up as a domain name that is for sale? An idea before it’s time? A victim of the tough economy? But I have to tell you that the fact you “built http://www.hotels.com” blows me away. Dude, you’re the guy who built hotels.com!!! It’s an honor to be having a dialogue with you. Really, hotels.com?!?! You built it, single handedly!?!? I’d be bragging about that one Bro. But I appreciate your humbleness. That’s amazing. Now what exactly does building it mean? Did you come up with the idea or were you the driving force or the lead programmer or “built” the brand or fetched the coffee? I can’t believe it! You da man! Just not sure what “built” means here. I wish I would have known you when I used hotels.com to book a room for my trip to Europe last summer. Could you have gotten me a better deal? Dude, what I can say. This is all impressive stuff. You must make your girlfriend, An Docusign, really proud. I have some good ideas on how you can spruce up the look of that Airus website. Let me know if I can be of any help. Now I have to go sell some insurance but I'll be checking in from time to time.

[mica.cooper]

So,
Its down to attack attack attack the messenger???

Wow, guess I hit a nerve and this is all an astroturf movement as I guessed. Any more turfers lurking? I am positive about tech and e-sign, just not misinformation and astroturfing.

I am quite proud of my achievements, including being the architect of and using an insurance ESB to build Hotels.com, along with a small team of 6 people, and generate over $1 billion in revenue the first year. I now use my experience to help agents with risk placement, at no cost to them. I don't sell any services on here, unlike the turfers. And I don't know the Docusign folks but at least they were honest about who they were.

[darnovak]

Someone should have asked instead of using a divining rod approach..... FYI we already use electronic signatures in NY. For new accounts we do OFAC compliance first before binding any business. All of our insureds are checked through the SDN lists twice a week by a third party vendor (the lists do change......). Once established as a customer, we can sell additional products to our heart's content. regards,