Hey, those of you in San Diego who lost your homes and have no insurance: If you have an auto policy you can get your home rebuilt!! Yes, just get a good “slip and fall” lawyer from New Jersey. I’m sure the arsonists used a car to flee from their dastardly deed!!!!
Intentional acts are now covered in the People’s Republic of New Jersey? Maybe she was “accidentally” shot. And they wonder why insurance costs so much in the Garden State.
Unbelievable! That’s all we need now is auto insurance paying for driveby shooting victims! This will be a real problem in New York State if it attorneys start to use this argument here.
Canada’s Supreme Court just made the final decision on two cases two weeks ago that clearly deliniated the line between use of an automobile and the criminal act that the automobile aided the criminal in doing. Perhaps NJ should look north for some help in this. The NJ court’s decision is ridiculous.
Fire its attorneys. Any lousy hack who couldn’t get a panel of 12 high school dropouts to understand the difference between what was intended to be covered, and what could be covered, needs to get a floppy hat and get a job cutting lawns.
I’m going home tonight (yes, back to NJ)and going to wait for the next jerk to play his radio too loud – so loud that I can make a claim for hearing loss against my carrier.
New Jersey has been, and will always be the most corrupt, tax burdened, state in the union. The people keep re-electing the same idiots who created the problems and are either too stupid or too lazy to make any changes. This is another example of the abuses that are part of life in “the great garden state”. Some court staffed by former personal injury attorneys made this absurd and unfounded decision so somebody would pay for the damages and life could go on without the state getting anymore bad press. I can only hope the carrier take an appeal to the highest court it can find, and that other carriers file an amicus brief letting the court know it’s full of crap. The state government of NJ has made sucking money from people and businesses an “art form”. Normal people are slowing abandoning the state and relocating. Soon, they can re-name it New Mexico East. The tax base will collapse, but the lawns will look great!
NJ – I’ve lived there for more than 20 years (can that really be called “living”, though?) is the stupidest State going, anchored by the most idiotic City in the Nation, Newark.
Where else can a black mayor and a gay governor give the green light to build a brand-new, single-sport arena for one of the best hockey franchises in history?
Newark is predominantly African-American, and one would think a “revitalized” downtown would want an anchor in either basketball or even soccer. But no, not in NJ. That would make too much sense.
Statistically there are no black players in the NHL. Even the NHL’s own website says the following:
“Only in the United States has there been historically substantial black communities and these have hardly been hockey hotbeds. Other sports such as basketball, football and baseball offered better infrastructure and more apparent opportunities.”
So, once again, NJ has given tax credits and incentives etc – plus generous construction contracts – for a team its’ own locals don’t give a Rat’s @ss about, and you have to wonder who got paid what.
God bless the Devils, but they’ve had problems getting enough people to fill their OLD arena, which was MUCh more convenient to the same highways that the fans would be taking from the ‘burbs.
Bon Jovi played there Wednesday, and the Hockey Opening Night was last Saturday, christened by (yet another) loss. I found it of great interest that Newark had more cops on corners than are on their roster. All to keep away the “local elements” from bothering all those Nice White Folks coming into the City.
And this is the talent pool for the Essex County court system, where Mercury lost a ridiculous case for stupid reasons.
Corey Booker is just another Sharpe James with a bald head. Nothing changes in NJ except the players.
This is the same state that required one of our clients pay 50k in PIP when a resident committed suicide by laying under the back wheels of the insured’s big rig truck. There were even witnesses that saw him lay there and a history of attempted suicide.
There was this girl in the back seat of my car and an accident occurred. I have been incurring expenses for the last 18 years. Can I get this covered in New Jersey?
Well, Reverend, you appear to have all the necessary parts – vehicle, hit-and-run, shooting, expenses incurred. I think you have a case. Though you will be incurring expenses for the rest of your life on this one, so go for broke.
I am so happy that the “judges” who are appointed and or elected to uphold laws understand the “illegal and/or intentional act(s)” clause in insurance contracts….hmmm, I wonder if smoking in public gets you a lethal injection in Jersey, while a murder nets you 100 days of cleaning public parks?
I’m appauled that the judges would do something so irresponsible! This is one of the very reasons why NJ has the HIGHEST insurance rates in the country. This is clearly not an auto insurance issue but rather a criminal issue. Being that I work in the insurance industry and know the law I think it’s very unfortunate that something like this would happen and will likely open up a whole new can of worms in an industry that’s already overwhelmed!
Sign up today! Tell us how you stumped your toe, or how you tripped over that shoe lace, or any other tale of woe & we will tell you how to put the words together in a NJ court to get money for all your troubles!
We only need a $1,000 retainer & will keep just 35% of the final settlement…
I LOVE THAT COMMENT!!! And it’s so very true. This certainly isn’t meant to make light of the lady that was injured. But to say that her car insurance has to pay for it is just ridiculous!
You people are all a bunch of idiots who have no knowledge of NJ insurance law. 1. Insurance follows the person. Whether or not this person was in a car is irrelevant. She has coverage under her um as a pedestrian. 2. The UCJ covers PIP and UM for intentional and unintentional acts. The act is viewed from the standpoint of the insured (victim). As far as she was concerned, it was an accident. This is all old law and nothing new. 3. PIP covers intentional acts as well. This is nothing new. This case just logically follows from existing law. 4. The states are split on coverage vs. non-coverage for drive-by shootings. NJ is not the first or only state that now covers it. 5. UM always covered projectiles from a moving vehicle. There never really was an exclusion for drive-by shootings. 6. There is no coverage if someone gets out of a car and shoots someone or robs a bank. Your examples are fallacious. 7. People who don’t understand the law or reasoning should not be offering uninformed opinions. …and for those of you who are bad mouthing NJ. Since the new verbal threshold laws were enacted and even the new plaintiff-friendly court decisions, law suits are down and more plaintiffs are being no-caused than ever. That is why all the carriers have returned to NJ and why Allstate, NJM and GEICO to name a few are making so much money.
Mr. or Mrs. Jackson, first I want to thank you for calling us idiots. It is usually a sign that someone can’t think of anything intelligent to say. I remind my children of this from time to time. Second, you miss the entire point. The point is that this SHOULD NOT be covered. It is clear that the wise souls in New Jersey have decided through passing laws and ruling on case law that coverage does exist. My friend, our point is that coverage SHOULD NOT apply. Your final point is an unrelated distraction that only demonstrates weakness in your argument. We’re happy to hear dissenting opinion, but please keep the name calling to a minimum- everybody-
Wow Jackson, I’m not really sure that calling us all “idiots” right off the bat is the best way to get us to take your points seriously.
That being said, I understand that states are split on this issue- I think the point of many of us commenting was that we don’t agree with the states who have upheld coverage in this situation. I also understand that projectiles are covered- the NJ PIP wording for who is covered says “… a ‘pedestrian,’caused by a ‘private passenger auto’ or by an object propelled by or from a ‘private passenger auto.'”
I believe the argument would be that the bullet was propelled “from” the auto, but I would argue that the intent of the “propelled by” wording was to cover a foreign body propelled by the auto due to its operation (i.e. kicked up rocks) and that the “propelled from” wording is talking about objects that were a part of the vehicle itself that were projected. Either way, I do not in any way believe that the wording is talking about the “location” of where something is projected from- I mean to say that just because the location of the gun was in a car when fired does not mean it was propelled by or from the vehicle.
Just my thoughts. Then again, I’m just an idiot with no knowledge of NJ insurance law.
As with many industries everybody tends to think that they know everything. Since I’m an underwriter I checked with our manager of claims that has worked in this industry for over 20 years and she too agrees that should such a case some about our comany would deny their claim too for some (not all) of the very reasons listed here. Further as to my qualification (since someone apparently doesn’t know) I work as an underwriter in NJ but hold P&C licenses in both PA & NJ as well as Life, Health & Variabale annuities in Florida. So I think that I have a bit of insite and/or wisdom abou this industry. Not to mention that I’m currently going through continuing education as we speak. So some of you might want to do that before blurting out comments because sometimes things do change.
This isn’t a place for insults but rather a place share the knowledge that I’m sure a number of us have.
Perhaps you should keep your condescending remarks for your children. I believe all of us here are adults and have already been raised once. That’s no your job. Let’s stick to the issue at hand. Now was that nice (and intelligent) enough for you?
I’ve been thinking about this story since yesterday and held off commenting until now but I agree with Jackson on this one. I don’t agree about the idiot part!
If one actually takes the time to read the loss facts and if this is a basic personal auto policy then it is a covered claim under the UM portion of the policy.
The insured/victim was struck by a bullet from another vehicle. That vehicle has no insurance (if it did, coverage would be denied to that party for the intentional act). I was rather surprise that several people brought up the intentional act exclusion but that is for the shooter and not the victim. The insured/victim was allegedly getting into her car when she was hit. How is this not covered? Is there a bullet/gun exlcusion on the policy? If not, then this is a covered loss.
My only question is was there ID on the shooter/vehicle? Typically for UM to be triggered, there has to be some type of ID on the other party if only a partial plate number.
Think with the head/brain people and not your emotions on this one. One other thing, I do not exactly agree with the ruling but it is legally sound.
What about all the children who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and get hurt or even killed by a drive by. Can they or their parent/parents collect now? If I lost a child I certainly would be searching for an attorney for my case. What about now, a child gets hurt or killed by a stray bullet, don’t you think someone is going to say it was a DRIVE by -just to be able to collect?
…and that’s all I have to say.
What’s next? Will Insurers have to reimburse banks for stolen money following a bank robbery because the robbers used a getaway car?
Hey, those of you in San Diego who lost your homes and have no insurance: If you have an auto policy you can get your home rebuilt!! Yes, just get a good “slip and fall” lawyer from New Jersey. I’m sure the arsonists used a car to flee from their dastardly deed!!!!
Intentional acts are now covered in the People’s Republic of New Jersey? Maybe she was “accidentally” shot. And they wonder why insurance costs so much in the Garden State.
Unbelievable! That’s all we need now is auto insurance paying for driveby shooting victims! This will be a real problem in New York State if it attorneys start to use this argument here.
Canada’s Supreme Court just made the final decision on two cases two weeks ago that clearly deliniated the line between use of an automobile and the criminal act that the automobile aided the criminal in doing. Perhaps NJ should look north for some help in this. The NJ court’s decision is ridiculous.
Fire its attorneys. Any lousy hack who couldn’t get a panel of 12 high school dropouts to understand the difference between what was intended to be covered, and what could be covered, needs to get a floppy hat and get a job cutting lawns.
I’m going home tonight (yes, back to NJ)and going to wait for the next jerk to play his radio too loud – so loud that I can make a claim for hearing loss against my carrier.
fenkazl, and New Orleans.
What a bizarre decision.
New Jersey has been, and will always be the most corrupt, tax burdened, state in the union. The people keep re-electing the same idiots who created the problems and are either too stupid or too lazy to make any changes. This is another example of the abuses that are part of life in “the great garden state”. Some court staffed by former personal injury attorneys made this absurd and unfounded decision so somebody would pay for the damages and life could go on without the state getting anymore bad press. I can only hope the carrier take an appeal to the highest court it can find, and that other carriers file an amicus brief letting the court know it’s full of crap. The state government of NJ has made sucking money from people and businesses an “art form”. Normal people are slowing abandoning the state and relocating. Soon, they can re-name it New Mexico East. The tax base will collapse, but the lawns will look great!
p.s. unfortunately, I currently live there.
And they had made such good decisions earlier this month. I thought there was hope. The tide must have gone out with it.
NJ – I’ve lived there for more than 20 years (can that really be called “living”, though?) is the stupidest State going, anchored by the most idiotic City in the Nation, Newark.
Where else can a black mayor and a gay governor give the green light to build a brand-new, single-sport arena for one of the best hockey franchises in history?
Newark is predominantly African-American, and one would think a “revitalized” downtown would want an anchor in either basketball or even soccer. But no, not in NJ. That would make too much sense.
Statistically there are no black players in the NHL. Even the NHL’s own website says the following:
“Only in the United States has there been historically substantial black communities and these have hardly been hockey hotbeds. Other sports such as basketball, football and baseball offered better infrastructure and more apparent opportunities.”
So, once again, NJ has given tax credits and incentives etc – plus generous construction contracts – for a team its’ own locals don’t give a Rat’s @ss about, and you have to wonder who got paid what.
God bless the Devils, but they’ve had problems getting enough people to fill their OLD arena, which was MUCh more convenient to the same highways that the fans would be taking from the ‘burbs.
Bon Jovi played there Wednesday, and the Hockey Opening Night was last Saturday, christened by (yet another) loss. I found it of great interest that Newark had more cops on corners than are on their roster. All to keep away the “local elements” from bothering all those Nice White Folks coming into the City.
And this is the talent pool for the Essex County court system, where Mercury lost a ridiculous case for stupid reasons.
Corey Booker is just another Sharpe James with a bald head. Nothing changes in NJ except the players.
This is the same state that required one of our clients pay 50k in PIP when a resident committed suicide by laying under the back wheels of the insured’s big rig truck. There were even witnesses that saw him lay there and a history of attempted suicide.
And they wonder why the state of NJ has the highest rates. Daaahhhhhhhh!
There was this girl in the back seat of my car and an accident occurred. I have been incurring expenses for the last 18 years. Can I get this covered in New Jersey?
Well, Reverend, you appear to have all the necessary parts – vehicle, hit-and-run, shooting, expenses incurred. I think you have a case. Though you will be incurring expenses for the rest of your life on this one, so go for broke.
NJ will probably pay. They won’t even question if the “shooting” was accidental or intentional.
I am so happy that the “judges” who are appointed and or elected to uphold laws understand the “illegal and/or intentional act(s)” clause in insurance contracts….hmmm, I wonder if smoking in public gets you a lethal injection in Jersey, while a murder nets you 100 days of cleaning public parks?
Wow guys! I think this may be one of the only IJ articles I have ever read for which all of the reader comments agreed with one another!
I’m appauled that the judges would do something so irresponsible! This is one of the very reasons why NJ has the HIGHEST insurance rates in the country. This is clearly not an auto insurance issue but rather a criminal issue. Being that I work in the insurance industry and know the law I think it’s very unfortunate that something like this would happen and will likely open up a whole new can of worms in an industry that’s already overwhelmed!
Look again… I’ve seen several of us that disagree with this ridiculous ruling!
Sign up today! Tell us how you stumped your toe, or how you tripped over that shoe lace, or any other tale of woe & we will tell you how to put the words together in a NJ court to get money for all your troubles!
We only need a $1,000 retainer & will keep just 35% of the final settlement…
I LOVE THAT COMMENT!!! And it’s so very true. This certainly isn’t meant to make light of the lady that was injured. But to say that her car insurance has to pay for it is just ridiculous!
Sorry CJ, that’s what I meant. We all think it’s crap!
You people are all a bunch of idiots who have no knowledge of NJ insurance law. 1. Insurance follows the person. Whether or not this person was in a car is irrelevant. She has coverage under her um as a pedestrian. 2. The UCJ covers PIP and UM for intentional and unintentional acts. The act is viewed from the standpoint of the insured (victim). As far as she was concerned, it was an accident. This is all old law and nothing new. 3. PIP covers intentional acts as well. This is nothing new. This case just logically follows from existing law. 4. The states are split on coverage vs. non-coverage for drive-by shootings. NJ is not the first or only state that now covers it. 5. UM always covered projectiles from a moving vehicle. There never really was an exclusion for drive-by shootings. 6. There is no coverage if someone gets out of a car and shoots someone or robs a bank. Your examples are fallacious. 7. People who don’t understand the law or reasoning should not be offering uninformed opinions. …and for those of you who are bad mouthing NJ. Since the new verbal threshold laws were enacted and even the new plaintiff-friendly court decisions, law suits are down and more plaintiffs are being no-caused than ever. That is why all the carriers have returned to NJ and why Allstate, NJM and GEICO to name a few are making so much money.
Mr. or Mrs. Jackson, first I want to thank you for calling us idiots. It is usually a sign that someone can’t think of anything intelligent to say. I remind my children of this from time to time. Second, you miss the entire point. The point is that this SHOULD NOT be covered. It is clear that the wise souls in New Jersey have decided through passing laws and ruling on case law that coverage does exist. My friend, our point is that coverage SHOULD NOT apply. Your final point is an unrelated distraction that only demonstrates weakness in your argument. We’re happy to hear dissenting opinion, but please keep the name calling to a minimum- everybody-
Wow Jackson, I’m not really sure that calling us all “idiots” right off the bat is the best way to get us to take your points seriously.
That being said, I understand that states are split on this issue- I think the point of many of us commenting was that we don’t agree with the states who have upheld coverage in this situation. I also understand that projectiles are covered- the NJ PIP wording for who is covered says “… a ‘pedestrian,’caused by a ‘private passenger auto’ or by an object propelled by or from a ‘private passenger auto.'”
I believe the argument would be that the bullet was propelled “from” the auto, but I would argue that the intent of the “propelled by” wording was to cover a foreign body propelled by the auto due to its operation (i.e. kicked up rocks) and that the “propelled from” wording is talking about objects that were a part of the vehicle itself that were projected. Either way, I do not in any way believe that the wording is talking about the “location” of where something is projected from- I mean to say that just because the location of the gun was in a car when fired does not mean it was propelled by or from the vehicle.
Just my thoughts. Then again, I’m just an idiot with no knowledge of NJ insurance law.
As with many industries everybody tends to think that they know everything. Since I’m an underwriter I checked with our manager of claims that has worked in this industry for over 20 years and she too agrees that should such a case some about our comany would deny their claim too for some (not all) of the very reasons listed here. Further as to my qualification (since someone apparently doesn’t know) I work as an underwriter in NJ but hold P&C licenses in both PA & NJ as well as Life, Health & Variabale annuities in Florida. So I think that I have a bit of insite and/or wisdom abou this industry. Not to mention that I’m currently going through continuing education as we speak. So some of you might want to do that before blurting out comments because sometimes things do change.
This isn’t a place for insults but rather a place share the knowledge that I’m sure a number of us have.
Perhaps you should keep your condescending remarks for your children. I believe all of us here are adults and have already been raised once. That’s no your job. Let’s stick to the issue at hand. Now was that nice (and intelligent) enough for you?
I’ve been thinking about this story since yesterday and held off commenting until now but I agree with Jackson on this one. I don’t agree about the idiot part!
If one actually takes the time to read the loss facts and if this is a basic personal auto policy then it is a covered claim under the UM portion of the policy.
The insured/victim was struck by a bullet from another vehicle. That vehicle has no insurance (if it did, coverage would be denied to that party for the intentional act). I was rather surprise that several people brought up the intentional act exclusion but that is for the shooter and not the victim. The insured/victim was allegedly getting into her car when she was hit. How is this not covered? Is there a bullet/gun exlcusion on the policy? If not, then this is a covered loss.
My only question is was there ID on the shooter/vehicle? Typically for UM to be triggered, there has to be some type of ID on the other party if only a partial plate number.
Think with the head/brain people and not your emotions on this one. One other thing, I do not exactly agree with the ruling but it is legally sound.
Check New Jersey off my list of places to visit before I die.
What about all the children who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and get hurt or even killed by a drive by. Can they or their parent/parents collect now? If I lost a child I certainly would be searching for an attorney for my case. What about now, a child gets hurt or killed by a stray bullet, don’t you think someone is going to say it was a DRIVE by -just to be able to collect?
Just asking….