instructor at the age of 15?! i think that this would have be a certified instructor to handle weapons at the minimum age of 18 (right to vote age). or it could be like our interstate truckers who have to be the age of 21. how does a family (i grieve for their loss), allow their 8 yr old to handle a weapon, much less this submachine gun? the owner, why was it allowed to be loaded to begin with? i see all faults mostly toward the owner and the gun show. this should have never happened! machine guns on display only and no ammo with it. an adult should be the only ones handling guns at show, either the dealer or even the buyer. 8 yr olds can be fascinated by guns and probably has a GI Joe at home. but these are real and things can happen. truly, this tragedy could have been prevented in so many ways.
Now the Gun Show should file counter-suit against the family for being irresponsible and stupid. Oh, wait. There are no exclusions for being stupid on the policy.
Unbelievable! They really allow loaded guns at gun shows? I’ve never heard of this and I’ve been to many. Seems like something is missing from this story…….
I can understand the irrational fear of a firearm if you have not been shown how to handle one safely.
I also agree that if you are not properly trained to handle a firearm safely you should not. However, it has nothing to do with age. I have seen a 10 year old handle a firearm with more competence than some 25 year olds. It has to do with some basing safety rules that must be followed.
That said I think that anyone who wants to use a firearm should be shown how to do so in a safe manner. Then this tragedy would not have happened.
You fault the owner of a machine and the promoter of a show but the parents have no fault in this? If my 8 year old wanted to go play at the edge of a cliff I would not let him. Because it is inherently dangergous and gravity is stronger so he will absolutely be pulled over the edge? No. It is because he does not know enough about physics to be aware of the danger and is a young child and can be easily sidetracked. It is my duty as the parent, guardian and responsible party for that child to keep make that decision for him. Therefore, if I had a child that was unskilled in the handling of firearms I would not allow him to shoot a machine gun unassisted.
‘Whatever’ – i vaguely agree that the parents should not have allowed their 8 year old to shoot…but whatever way you slice this, it’s still ridiculously poor risk management (which is our job, right?) to allow a 15 year old to be a supervisor in a machine gun firing line, and even worse risk management to allow an 8 year old to use the range.
I say childrens safety first and foremost. So sad the Republican packed Supreme Court misinterpreted the second amendment and allowed for this child to be killed
the National Rifle Association should be sued for everything they own by this family.
Here is a link this story on MSNC.Com. The original report talked about an “adult” was supervising the shooting. It sheads some more light on this posting by Insurance Journal.
Okay, I was doing fine until politics had to be brought in. No one misinterpreted the 2nd Amendment Rosie. We do have a right to bear arms. This is nothing more than a tragic error in judgement by the person who allowed this child to even attempt to fire this gun. The owner should have never allowed it supervised or not. The parents should never have allowed their child to attempt it. Seems to me there were red flags all over the place on this one. Children this young don’t need to be firing these types of guns. Every situation is different but this could have easily been avoided with good common sense. Please don’t pull that “no one should own a gun” stuff out here, please. If the USA worked like that we would soon only have the police state and criminals with guns and we would all be trapped in the middle. If you don’t want to own a gun then don’t. Stay off my rights.
WK, you fell for the oldest joke in the insurance journal article post. Rosie puts a crazy lib post in every article that gets more than one or two comments, she’s not being serious.
How did the gun accidentally shoot him in the head unless he pointed it at his head? It sounds to me that the fault lies with the supervisor (and the show) rather than with the gun.
My question is, since when is it legal to sell or possess a fully automatic assault weapon like an Uzi in the U.S? Is the ban on assault weapons a state by state issue or is it a federal ban?
Also, I blame the Xbox and the Call of Duty line of video games for this. I’ve never seen children more fascinated with assault weapons than since that game hit the shelves. My 13 year old brother in law could recite the fire rate and magazine capacity for just about every military grade firearm available since 1910 because of Call of Duty.
Letting an 8 year old child into a gun show in the first place has got to be the second most irresponsible thing I’ve ever heard second ONLY to bringing the child there in the first place. I have no issues with the right to bear arms, just don’t bring them in my house, or around my children. I’ll respect your rights, you respect mine. As far as the gun shows are concerned, there should be an age limit for admission. I don’t care how responsible an 8 or 9 year old appears to be, he/she is still only a small child, and if you want to expose and teach your children about guns, GO HOME and do it there. Alcohol and tobacco are LESS immediately dangerous than a loaded gun, and we have laws that state that children can’t buy or use either one. 13 year olds aren’t legally allowed to drive, no matter how “mature” they are BECAUSE THEY CAN HURT/KILL THEMSELVES AND/OR OTHERS. I feel bad for the parents, don’t get me wrong. No parent should ever have to bury their own child, no matter the circumstance. However, when the parents win their lawsuit, they should use the money for common sense implants.
if you want to live in denial that is fine WK, but the real truth is that the NRA has power with many legislators that is unprecedented in the annals of American history. You and your ilk just keep trying to wash your hands of the bloodshed that is the result of easy access to dangerous weapons and then scream when anyone points out how tragedies occur because it is so easy to get your hands on a gun.
Darren: How did the gun accidentally shoot him in the head unless he pointed it at his head?
Automatic weapons have a lot of “kick” to them. An inexperienced shooter will have difficulty keeping the barrel pointed in one direction, especially if they lack the arm strength of an adult (or even a teenager). The typical “kick” of an automatic weapon sends the barrel up and to the left.
My understanding is that the club was having a legal machiune gun shoot. These take place at various places around the country. I am firearms familiar and an NRA certified instructor. I would not have allowed an 8 year old to fire a full automatic firearm. The chid froze on the trigger and the recoil caused the muzzle to elevate, and the child shot himslf in the head. It’s not the NRA’s fault but I ahve no sympathy for the gun club, instructor and the childs father bears a certain amount of reposnsibility too.
Video games? you’re blaming video games? Do you blame heavy metal for promiscuity and lawlessness in our children? How about “professional” wrestling. Now that I think about it, pro football looks pretty violent too. And let’s not forget that ultimate mid corruptor, Dungeons and Dragons! People have shifted the blame for centuries. It all boils down to one thing. Take responsibility for your children. If a parent takes their child to a gun show and a tragic accident happens, how the dickens are you going to blame video games……
I watched a 12 year old, hunting with his father, bleed to death after being accidently shot by his 12 year old friend. I was present at an accident where a toddler was run over by a car and killed. It didn’t matter if it was a gun or a car the tragic result was from the same cause, both were due to the lack of proper supervision and carried their own punishment for the parents. It is distasteful to see parents pursue monetary gain from a tragedy largely caused by their own actions.
Relax Tom, that portion of my post was “tongue in cheek.” In my opinion, the parents of this child are more to blame than the gun club, who in their right mind allows an 8 year old to fire an Uzi? Gross negligence for all parties involved.
This lawsuit sickens me as it’s a vain attempt to shift the blame from the one person who is responsible (or irresponsible) ….the father. Now he wants to profit from his own stupidity, negligence, and poor judgment. The audacity and arrogance is incredible.
The father is a doctor and admits he gave permission for the kid to fire the weapon. He was reaching for his camera when the accident occured 10’in front of him. What kind of moron allows an 8 year old kid to fire an automatic combat weapon? The fact that it jammed has no bearing on the kid shooting himself in the head. When a weapon jams, it stops firing.
The fact is this doctor spoiled his kid rotten and allowed him to do exciting, extravagant things most 8 year olds never dream of. The kid had hike glaciers in Alaska and mined for gems in Nevada. I guess video games were too tame for him.
I agree that the parent may be negligent but before I placed most if not all of the reponsiblity on him, I’d want to know how much he knew about firearms. If he had little or no experience with them, he many not have been fully aware of the danger. When I’m teaching someone new to shoot, I position myself so I can instantly reach around them to control the firearm (and shooter). No matter what, the instructor was negligent.
you’re like Jessica Fletcher on that show “Murder She Wrote”, Bob. Everytime she showed up, someone died too! If I ever see the two of you anywhere near my hometown, I’m gonna run.
Yeah Bob, but the instructor in this case is a 15 year old, so i think the negligence moves farther up the ladder. I’m not sure you can expect a 15 year old to properly supervise anyone.
Of course, every swim club in the country has teenage lifeguards…
After reading the Courthouse News link (thanks for that– enlightening), it seems obvious to me that the father bears the responsibility in this one. Their complaint says that the Gun Show owners should have known that it was illegal in MA for a minor to fire the weapon– but also states that the father “purchased the opportunity for his son … to fire a Micro Uzi 9mm automatic weapon”.
The father has the burden of exerting common sense in this case, and obviously failed on that count. The fact that the gun jammed twice had nothing to do with the fact that the child was allowed to put himself in harm’s way. The child did know how to fire the weapon, it slipped off his shoulder, and in trying to prevent the gun from dropping, it discharged (or rather, the boy accidentally pulled the trigger as it slipped).
It is a tragic accident regardless, and I have much sympathy for the family. But this not negate the fact that the father in this case acted irresponsibly in even bringing the child to the show, much less allowing him to fire an automatic weapon by himself.
George, I agree with you 100%. The club that put on the event is reponsible for the instructor and bears the brunt of the blame. The 15 year old may have been a competent intructors assistant but in my opinion should not have been the instructor in charge at an automatic firearms event.
People: Let’s cut the crap. Allowing an 8 year old kid to experience the outrageous adventures that have been described is absurd. Whether the father knew about weapons or not he should not have let the kid pick one up. There is no need nor reason to allow this experience. The father, and no one else, is responsible. I was a video clip in which the father is seen smiling and describing his DEAD 8 year old as a “budding outdoorsman”. Well guess what Dad….being an outdoorsman doesn’t include firing an automatic assault weapon ANYTIME. This father encouraged his spoiled kid to be a thrill seeker and it proved fatal.
I think Azekiel is right on the money with his comments and assessment. People have to stop looking for others to blame in unfortunate situations. No one wants to assign blame where it belongs and no one accepts personal responsibility anymore. This “father” is a prime example. He wanted a picture of this exciting event to hang in his study. Nice job.
“that a 15-year-old instructor who cleared the gun and handed it back to the victim”
15 yr cleared the gun? does this mean that he unjammed the gun? or removed the ammo from the gun? the fact is was an automatic weapon and the 15 yr old allowed an 8 yr old to handle this kind of weapon? parents should be responsible, but i would definately hold the gun owner and not the show responsible. there should have been some rules to have been abided by to begin with.
All ‘cleared the gun’ means is that he looked into the chamber after a misfire or a jam to make sure there wasn’t anything blocking the chamber and handed the gun back to the kid. the gun’s malfunction didn’t have any effect on the kid shooting himself (at least it doesn’t sound that way). The kid just couldn’t handle the recoil. Besides, the gun or ammunition manufacturer is probably the last entity i’d try to sue if i were the lawyer.
Why don’t we have better regulations when it comes to firearms in this country? We seem to regulate Insurance Companies, Television, Radio, etc….but we don’t advocate for the safety of each other? Totally ludicrous! California is supposed to have the toughest gun laws in the country, but you would never know it!
I think ALL states should have a minimum age requirement to handle a gun, mandatory training to own a gun, a ban of all Uzzis and any kind of “weapons of mass destruction”, and a complete and thourough background check with a waiting period. Gun shows should be just that….gun shows…not gun “try-outs”. A loaded gun at a gun show is asking for trouble. Accidents do happen. That is why they are called accidents.
This is such a tragedy and I think we all are responsible for what happened to this boy. Although I don’t like guns, I do believe in our 2nd Amendment rights, however, a modification of the amendment is in order to protect all citizens from tragedies like this.
thank God for someone who speaks some common sense on this forum. Of course the radicals and closed minded Cheney worshippers will be all over you in a few seconds SFOInsuranceLady.
I have to agree with you a 15 year instructor is ridiculous he isn’t even old enough to register a gun. But I think that the blame should be on the PARENTS. I feel that young children can carry certain guns as far hunting, maybe a pellet gun or a small 410 but an UZI? If any parents let their children handle that type of weapon is ridiculous. You might as well have given that child a machete. I feel that the gun show and parents should have equal fault. The parents shouldn’t be able to file a law suit.
First of all, we are not all to blame. That’s the liberal oozing out of you. However, having a 15 year old boy supervising an 8 year old boy is wreckless and irresponsible. Outlawing tens of millions of guns for a frightfully negligent situation like this is absurd. Let’s outlaw bicycles, reverse gear for automobiles, and plastic bags while we’re at it since these all cause more child deaths in this country than guns.
“Outlawing tens of millions of guns for a frightfully negligent situation like this is absurd. Let’s outlaw bicycles, reverse gear for automobiles, and plastic bags while we’re at it since these all cause more child deaths in this country than guns.”
——————————————
Let’s make one thing PERFECTLY clear…. I don’t believe anyone wants to outlaw guns, but it would be a very RESPONSIBLE idea to prohibit the use of any firearm or weapon stronger than a BB or Pellet gun to anyone under the age of 18. You want your right to walk around with your ego strapped to your side, I have no issues, but as I said earlier keep it away from me and mine. I’ll respect your rights, you respect mine.
Tom’s Comment: Let’s make one thing PERFECTLY clear…. I don’t believe anyone wants to outlaw guns, but it would be a very RESPONSIBLE idea to prohibit the use of any firearm or weapon stronger than a BB or Pellet gun to anyone under the age of 18.
Maybe prohibit “without adult supervision,” but not prohibit altogether. In many states, hunting with a firearm (and with adult supervision) is legal as young as thirteen or sixteen. The best programs I have ever seen for teaching gun safety have been through Boy Scouts of America — by definition aimed at those under eighteen.
I do not own a gun and have not fired one in several years, but I was taught from a relatively early age how to safely handle and fire a rifle or shotgun. I think 18 is actually far too OLD for someone to learn proper firearm safety.
About the case this article discusses, I believe there is a place at a gun show for a properly supervised and staffed firing range. If a fifteen-year-old CHILD was responsible for the safety of the range, this one was not properly supervised or staffed. The staff should not have permitted a child as young as eight to fire the weapon involved, so the gun show bears some burden of negligence.
Lots of typical hand-wringing over a horrible situation here.
Who should we blame? The gun? The gun owner? The parent? The Kid? The range? The event? The range supervisor?
Seems like most here are quick to put someone other than the child and parent in the crosshairs.
I’ve had my 8 year old out shooting all sorts of firearms (including “assualt type weapons). We practice safety regularly and go over all the firearms at home prior to heading out to shoot. he is never handling or firing weapon without my being right on top of him.
Just as with the use of any other tool or machine, there are hazards that are unique to firearms. The user must be acutely aware of everything they are doing when handling a firearm. that’s where the parent’s job comes into play.
It’s not the fact that the firearm was an UZI or that certain types of guns are more feared by non-shooters than others. The fact is that this kid was not prepared to handle shooting this or any other type of firearm.
It’s a terrible tragedy that should have been avoided by the parent!
I don’t own any guns. I don’t want to own any guns. However, I do believe in our right to bear arms, so in light of your suggestion to amend the 2nd amendment, let’s add that in order to become a parent, you have to have the common sense not to allow your 8 year old to fire an Uzi. These parents only have themselves to blame, the boy should never have been allowed to fire the gun. Gun use needs to be predicated on having a certain amount of common sense. It’s not always someone else’s fault, you have to take responsibility for your own stupid actions and in this case, the parent in charge of this young boy should have had some common sense then this tradgedy would never have happened.
Last I checked there is a waiting period and background check when buying a firearm. What is a shame is how easily criminals can get their hands on one. Laws only apply to those who would obey them. Glad to see so many on here who understand that. They need to enforce the laws we already have. I am all for it. Oh, one thought for you Tom, glad you support our rights. Don’t know you so I doubt I will be around you or yours. I don’t see the comment about strapping your ego being appropriate though. It isn’t about that for most responsible gun owners. For me it is a sport and home defense. My ego is not so big that I think I can handle a gun holding criminal with my bare hands or a baseball bat. Bottom line is a kid died here and it should never have happened. His father should not have allowed it and there should have been an adult supervising this.
how many people on this board will feel the same way if this happens to be one of their own children….I do beleive in our 2nd Amendment Rights, however, parental responsibility aside, there has to be some control and better regulations regarding the use of firearms. There are just too many accidents that can be avoided. This is sooooo tragic!
Things happen too fast with an automatic weapon for an 8 year old mind to process.
MAYBE slung from a harness wherein it can’t be aimed more than 5 degrees off dead center, maybe that would work. But then, why bother. Kid hiccups and 8 people get mowed down. 15 year old instructor was watching him? Was he? I love guns, but my kids wil never get more than one round and my hands will be right next to theirs. If they ever decide to take up shooting.
Here are the facts you all are not aware of:
1) His dad was standing right there when it happened. What kind of FREAKING IDIOT Parent lets his 8 year old shoot an Uzi. Let me guess the ole’ Bill Cosby routine:
“I DON’T KNOW!!!”
The judge needs to throw out the law suit based on the idiot parents. Hey SFO LADY I wouldn’t be that stupid to let my 8 year old shoot my uzi, but he does have nice grouping with the 9mm. Don’t ban the gun show, ban the STUPID PARENTS who have no idea what an Uzi will do when it is fired. It will always carry into the air with a inexperienced shooter, this is why the boy shot himself in the head.
What do you SAY, Nice going GRACE!!!
please re-read my post….putting parental responsibility ASIDE, we still need better regulations when it comes to firearms in this country. Too many “yahoos” who think they know what they are doing just happens to ruin it for everyone else.
They don’t even enforce the guns laws we have now and you want more GUN REGULATIONS.
HOW ABOUT TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBITY FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS.
Letting IDIOT DOCTOR/FATHER WITH NO BUSINESS OF HAVING HIS SON PICK UP A GUN IS THE PROBLEM.
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE NOT GUNS!!!!!
YOU WANT MORE REGULATIONS COME TO FLA, YOU”LL SEE WHAT IDIOT CHARLIE CHRIST, THE RHINO GOV. OF ALL RHINOS HAS DONE HERE WITH MORE REGULATIONS ON INSURANCE.
“Do you recall the LAWLESNESS IN NEW ORLEANS? Probably not, due to your short attention span and to details”
Of course I remeber, not only do I remember Katrina, but also the 1989 Loma Prieta EQ….I lived right through it with all of the looting, etc….I also remember Charlie Manson, Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, and most of all, COLUMBINE…need I go on?
I guess you are just one of those yahoos I described that needs to carry a firearm because he is lacking somewhere else…
It’s really very simple. The general public has no business having access to or playing with combat assault weapons designed for use by law enforcement and the military. Too many idiots looking for a quick vicarious thrill. They should be banned. I enjoy firearms too, but NOBODY needs an automatic assault weapon. This nonsense about “it’s my right to own one” has to stop. There are just some things you shouldn’t be able to do. This is one of them. It’s not about training. It’s not about supervision. It’s not about licensing. MILITARY ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.
I HAVE LOST A CHILD (he was 19 and an only child)not becasue of a gun accident it was a motorcycle accident so should we take away ALL the motorcycles on the road?? At what point in time should we be responsible for our OWN actions. Now I can agree that there should have been an ADULT instructor not a 15 year old (adult b eing someone of age to register that type of gun) BUT what about the father ?? dosne’t he have SOME responsibility in this YOU DON’T HAND a gun ANY type of GUN to an 8 year old that is LOADED !!! I was raised that ALL guns a loaded PERIOD!!! I have a couple of guns myself now and I have GREAT respect for them I know how to use them (shoot, clean load, unload, check to make sure the safety is on if it’s not a revolver) you can’t make more laws or sue other just becasue you don’t like the outcome……… do you guys know why your insurance rates are so HIGH?? Yes when there is GROSS Neglance you should be able to go back against the other party. But is that going to bring this 8 year old back. NO. Will it keep gun accidents from happening. NO. It’s not the guns that are the issue it’s the opperators PERIOD ………… enforce the laws we have and learn to handle the gun you have in your hands and know that no matter what it’s a weapon with 1 purpose to KILL and treat it with the respect it deserves.
To the family of the 8 year old…….. I am so sorry for your loss NO parent should have to suffer the loss of a child. May gods peace and love be with you each and every day to help carry you through
Virginia,
Fabulous! But you and I both know that in some folks mind, instant wealth gratification due to their own stupidity is more important than PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Now, did I say we should “ban” firearms?!!No, I did NOT. I wish you would read my posts a little more closely. I support our 2nd amendment rights and fully support our rights to protect ourselves, however, putting parental reponsability ASIDE, we need better laws across this country (of course, enforcement goes hand-in-hand) when it comes to the ownership and the RESPONSIBILTY that comes with owning a firearm. Too many so-called “accidents” – we are only human and mistakes do happen.
Also, you can’t beleive everything you read. There are always two sides to every story. I would like to hear the other side before passing judgement.
I am very sorry for your loss, Virginia. The worst thing that can happen is to suffer the loss of a child. I have two of my own and I cannot imagine the pain of having to deal with such a loss. And the loss of this 8 year-old boy saddens me,too. That is why I am saying that not
only does there have to be personal responsibility, there has to be laws in place so a tragedy like this never happens again!
SFOInsuranceLady – If parents took responsibility, we wouldn’t have to regulate. I have the right to own a gun. I have the right to show my child how to handle – responsibly – a gun. I have the right to take my child to a gun show. I have the duty to make sure that my child doesn’t do something to get himself killed. This is a tragedy. And it should not have happened. But the main blame has to go to the parents. That is what is wrong with this country. No one owns up to their own mistakes.
That aside, I do have a problem with a minor being a trainer. I think there should be minimum experience and age. With age comes knowledge. No matter how mature a 15 year old is, they cannot understand the gravity of life. Not that all 18, 21, or 60 year-olds do. But if I am relying on someone else’s training, I want to be sure that they know how to train…
Last time I checked you don’t too many do overs regarding a mistake that someone makes with a fire arm. This why the “LIFE” argument previously mentioned by DW is sooo relavent. Parental Responsibility is the crux of this argument. Gov’t is the problem, NOT THE SOLUTION. WE DON’T NEED MORE LAWS All that allows is more LAWYER EXCUSES!!!
PS: SO SFOINS LADY you have the PEN! What law do you want to put in PLACE! We’re listening!
How about not letting a MINOR show another MINOR how to use a gun, let alone a combat assult weapon….let alone let a minor into a gun show….let alone allow loaded guns at a gun show….how about banning the idiot parents that allow their inexperienced kids into these gun shows….what about banning minors from hadeling guns at all?
IMHO, I think the people who carry guns just do it to make themselves feel good because they are lacking in other aspects of their mundane lives…sad, but true.
SFO INS LADY. You are totally clueless. I pray you never move to FLORIDA, your interlecturally dishonest thought process is what’s wrong here. I have a concealed weapons permit. NOW YOU SAY I’M Inferior! Why do I carry? Because if you where here in FLORIDA after HURRICANE CHARLIE IN 2004 and saw how the common joe’s of the world treated a MAJOR INTERSECTION with no traffic lights due to a power outage then you’d change your mind. Then again you wouldn’t your the problem, TOO SOFT. CAN YOU SAY HURRICANE KATRINA, Do you recall the LAWLESNESS IN NEW ORLEANS? Probably not, due to your short attention span and to details. I Pray that you’ll never be car jacked like my good friends sister was in DELTONA FL. Amazing what happend when she showed her gun to the “PERP!”. You stay where your at you be just fine in your CUSHY LITTLE WORLD.
for your loss. I just can’t imagine what that must be like for you.
I would like to use your case as an example of regulation, if I may.
A motorcycle is dangerous and regulated. There are motercycle shows which can be attended by anyone. The conditions under which someone may legally drive one of those motercycles is regulated. No one screams about the injustice – you just get your license and deal with it.
Does the regulatory process protect everyone from tragedy? No, unfortunately it does not. However, I don’t believe that a motercycle is more dangerous than an Uzi.
No one should lose a child. this is a horrible situation.
1) parents should not allow their kids into a live ammo gun show for them to shoot automatic weapons like an UZI. i do not have a heartburn with them learning from an adult instructor on proper use of a shotgun or bb gun.
2) adults should be the only allowed trainers/instructors at a gun show. it’s all about responsibility and liability. some kids at the age of 15 are smart and very well knowledgable, but they are young and still have a lot to learn in life.
3) laws: well, some are made only to be broken. some are made that truly don’t make sense, but was made to make the legislator appeared to look good only to be foolish. some, well, just don’t need to be made at all. sometimes it is just common sense that needs to be used – as in this case because there should not have been any laws written to stop a tragedy like this.
KEY: proper attention by the parent that is being a responsible parent. each situation is unique and you must as a parent be relevant to it. i think after the first time that the gun had jammed, i’d would have been cautious enough to not allow a second chance. especially an 8 yr old. this child unfortunately will not grow up nor have an 8 yr old of his own. blame? most of it to a father who felt he could buy attention instead of giving the attention.
We already have criminals with guns. What the NRA never seems to address is the greed factor. Namely, it’s very easy to purchase an illegal gun on the streets that more than likely was purchased legally somewhere down the iron pipeline adn re-sold on the streets for a 400% profit
Why aren’t they sewing for the fact that the gun was loaded and it was a 15 year old child who was demonstrating it? Where were the adults when all of this was going on? The person who allowed amunition to be present around children and the parents allowing their son to freely handle these weapons at the gun show are all to blame for being completely careless, negligent and inept.
I do not know the laws in Massachusetts, but if it is comparitive negligence as opposed to pure contributory negligence the defendents in this case would have liability even if it is 1% at fault. What monetary value will be put on this child’s death? There will be plenty of blame to go around and if it makes it to trial without a settlement a jury will decide who is at fault, and if it is comparitive negligence which percentage each party is at fault. From there a monetary value will be determined.
Cosmo Mannella cannot believe this has happened.
What in the world is an 8 year old doing with an Uzi machine gun with real live ammunition.
Where is the security?
OMG, condolences to the family from Cosmo Mannella and all members of LIUNA!!!
I know that I’m going to catch quite a bit of flack for saying this but the type of gun that was involved does play a large role (in addition to poor parental judgement and faulty oversight from the 15yr old range operator). When the 2nd ammendment was crafted, we didn’t have fully automatic assult weapons. Do folks really think that the intent of the 2nd ammendment was to allow the average joe to handle/purchase fully automatic assult weapons? Come on….
Actually, yes, I do think that the intent of the 2nd amendment does not preclude fully automatic weapons in the hands of civilians.
The 2nd amendment was intended to permit the citizenry to form an effective resistance in the event that their own government descended into tyranny. In order to fulfill that objective, arms comparable in scope to what the tyrant government would be using should be available to the public.
We in Massachusetts, as firearms buyers, know that to handle an unloaded arm for sale we must produce a valid certificate. How that process becomes null and void at a show is irresponsible and just that much more reckless given that the situation debated involves a loaded machine gun.
This was not a Gun Show. This was a Machine-gun Shoot. There is a difference. A gun show is a place to buy and sell firearms and related equipment, no shooting. The guns have the triggers and actions zip-tied closed or open to not allow loading of ammunition. A machine-gun shoot is a place to watch (and shoot) machine-guns.
I’ve been to dozens of gun shows. I’ve been to one machine gun shoot and it was amazing. My son, about 6 yrs old at the time and wanted to join in the fun. He was not allowed because of his size and because I had not yet trained him to shoot. I would not hesitate to allow him to shoot at a machine gun shoot if the right weapons were available. Mainly a tripod mounted heavy machine-gun or even an M16. Never a pistol sized machine-gun. Too much leverage is applied by the firearm. Anyway, it was the parent’s responsibility to make the decision and also the parent’s responsibility for the outcome. I feel bad for them as I would suffer severe grief at the loss of one of my children but then I wouldn’t allow my children to fire guns they aren’t ready for. Period.
instructor at the age of 15?! i think that this would have be a certified instructor to handle weapons at the minimum age of 18 (right to vote age). or it could be like our interstate truckers who have to be the age of 21. how does a family (i grieve for their loss), allow their 8 yr old to handle a weapon, much less this submachine gun? the owner, why was it allowed to be loaded to begin with? i see all faults mostly toward the owner and the gun show. this should have never happened! machine guns on display only and no ammo with it. an adult should be the only ones handling guns at show, either the dealer or even the buyer. 8 yr olds can be fascinated by guns and probably has a GI Joe at home. but these are real and things can happen. truly, this tragedy could have been prevented in so many ways.
Do they typically let 8 year olds shoot uzis? This is another one where i’d like to hear a greater amount of detail. It sounds unbelievable.
Now the Gun Show should file counter-suit against the family for being irresponsible and stupid. Oh, wait. There are no exclusions for being stupid on the policy.
Ahhh!
Unbelievable! They really allow loaded guns at gun shows? I’ve never heard of this and I’ve been to many. Seems like something is missing from this story…….
I can understand the irrational fear of a firearm if you have not been shown how to handle one safely.
I also agree that if you are not properly trained to handle a firearm safely you should not. However, it has nothing to do with age. I have seen a 10 year old handle a firearm with more competence than some 25 year olds. It has to do with some basing safety rules that must be followed.
That said I think that anyone who wants to use a firearm should be shown how to do so in a safe manner. Then this tragedy would not have happened.
You fault the owner of a machine and the promoter of a show but the parents have no fault in this? If my 8 year old wanted to go play at the edge of a cliff I would not let him. Because it is inherently dangergous and gravity is stronger so he will absolutely be pulled over the edge? No. It is because he does not know enough about physics to be aware of the danger and is a young child and can be easily sidetracked. It is my duty as the parent, guardian and responsible party for that child to keep make that decision for him. Therefore, if I had a child that was unskilled in the handling of firearms I would not allow him to shoot a machine gun unassisted.
‘Whatever’ – i vaguely agree that the parents should not have allowed their 8 year old to shoot…but whatever way you slice this, it’s still ridiculously poor risk management (which is our job, right?) to allow a 15 year old to be a supervisor in a machine gun firing line, and even worse risk management to allow an 8 year old to use the range.
Where is the NRA when you need them? What about the eight year old’s right to bear arms?
I grieve for their loss.
I say childrens safety first and foremost. So sad the Republican packed Supreme Court misinterpreted the second amendment and allowed for this child to be killed
the National Rifle Association should be sued for everything they own by this family.
Here is a link this story on MSNC.Com. The original report talked about an “adult” was supervising the shooting. It sheads some more light on this posting by Insurance Journal.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/
Then there is this article that talks more about the lawsuit.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/11/8-Year-Old_Boy_Was_Shot_to_Death_At_Machinegun_Show_Parents_Say.htm
Okay, I was doing fine until politics had to be brought in. No one misinterpreted the 2nd Amendment Rosie. We do have a right to bear arms. This is nothing more than a tragic error in judgement by the person who allowed this child to even attempt to fire this gun. The owner should have never allowed it supervised or not. The parents should never have allowed their child to attempt it. Seems to me there were red flags all over the place on this one. Children this young don’t need to be firing these types of guns. Every situation is different but this could have easily been avoided with good common sense. Please don’t pull that “no one should own a gun” stuff out here, please. If the USA worked like that we would soon only have the police state and criminals with guns and we would all be trapped in the middle. If you don’t want to own a gun then don’t. Stay off my rights.
WK, you fell for the oldest joke in the insurance journal article post. Rosie puts a crazy lib post in every article that gets more than one or two comments, she’s not being serious.
How did the gun accidentally shoot him in the head unless he pointed it at his head? It sounds to me that the fault lies with the supervisor (and the show) rather than with the gun.
This is tragic. The gun show is at fault for improper supervision; the parents are equally at fault for the same reason.
My question is, since when is it legal to sell or possess a fully automatic assault weapon like an Uzi in the U.S? Is the ban on assault weapons a state by state issue or is it a federal ban?
Also, I blame the Xbox and the Call of Duty line of video games for this. I’ve never seen children more fascinated with assault weapons than since that game hit the shelves. My 13 year old brother in law could recite the fire rate and magazine capacity for just about every military grade firearm available since 1910 because of Call of Duty.
Letting an 8 year old child into a gun show in the first place has got to be the second most irresponsible thing I’ve ever heard second ONLY to bringing the child there in the first place. I have no issues with the right to bear arms, just don’t bring them in my house, or around my children. I’ll respect your rights, you respect mine. As far as the gun shows are concerned, there should be an age limit for admission. I don’t care how responsible an 8 or 9 year old appears to be, he/she is still only a small child, and if you want to expose and teach your children about guns, GO HOME and do it there. Alcohol and tobacco are LESS immediately dangerous than a loaded gun, and we have laws that state that children can’t buy or use either one. 13 year olds aren’t legally allowed to drive, no matter how “mature” they are BECAUSE THEY CAN HURT/KILL THEMSELVES AND/OR OTHERS. I feel bad for the parents, don’t get me wrong. No parent should ever have to bury their own child, no matter the circumstance. However, when the parents win their lawsuit, they should use the money for common sense implants.
if you want to live in denial that is fine WK, but the real truth is that the NRA has power with many legislators that is unprecedented in the annals of American history. You and your ilk just keep trying to wash your hands of the bloodshed that is the result of easy access to dangerous weapons and then scream when anyone points out how tragedies occur because it is so easy to get your hands on a gun.
Darren: How did the gun accidentally shoot him in the head unless he pointed it at his head?
Automatic weapons have a lot of “kick” to them. An inexperienced shooter will have difficulty keeping the barrel pointed in one direction, especially if they lack the arm strength of an adult (or even a teenager). The typical “kick” of an automatic weapon sends the barrel up and to the left.
My understanding is that the club was having a legal machiune gun shoot. These take place at various places around the country. I am firearms familiar and an NRA certified instructor. I would not have allowed an 8 year old to fire a full automatic firearm. The chid froze on the trigger and the recoil caused the muzzle to elevate, and the child shot himslf in the head. It’s not the NRA’s fault but I ahve no sympathy for the gun club, instructor and the childs father bears a certain amount of reposnsibility too.
It’s been legal to own an submachine gun like the Uzi in the United States since the Federal Assault Weapons ban legislation expired in 2004.
Video games? you’re blaming video games? Do you blame heavy metal for promiscuity and lawlessness in our children? How about “professional” wrestling. Now that I think about it, pro football looks pretty violent too. And let’s not forget that ultimate mid corruptor, Dungeons and Dragons! People have shifted the blame for centuries. It all boils down to one thing. Take responsibility for your children. If a parent takes their child to a gun show and a tragic accident happens, how the dickens are you going to blame video games……
I watched a 12 year old, hunting with his father, bleed to death after being accidently shot by his 12 year old friend. I was present at an accident where a toddler was run over by a car and killed. It didn’t matter if it was a gun or a car the tragic result was from the same cause, both were due to the lack of proper supervision and carried their own punishment for the parents. It is distasteful to see parents pursue monetary gain from a tragedy largely caused by their own actions.
Relax Tom, that portion of my post was “tongue in cheek.” In my opinion, the parents of this child are more to blame than the gun club, who in their right mind allows an 8 year old to fire an Uzi? Gross negligence for all parties involved.
Holy crap bob, maybe the problem is you. Remind me not to let my kids near you, they’ll shoot themselves.
This lawsuit sickens me as it’s a vain attempt to shift the blame from the one person who is responsible (or irresponsible) ….the father. Now he wants to profit from his own stupidity, negligence, and poor judgment. The audacity and arrogance is incredible.
The father is a doctor and admits he gave permission for the kid to fire the weapon. He was reaching for his camera when the accident occured 10’in front of him. What kind of moron allows an 8 year old kid to fire an automatic combat weapon? The fact that it jammed has no bearing on the kid shooting himself in the head. When a weapon jams, it stops firing.
The fact is this doctor spoiled his kid rotten and allowed him to do exciting, extravagant things most 8 year olds never dream of. The kid had hike glaciers in Alaska and mined for gems in Nevada. I guess video games were too tame for him.
I just started reading the complaint on this one http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/11/11/8-Year-Old_Boy_Was_Shot_to_Death_At_Machinegun_Show_Parents_Say.htm I have to honestly say I’m even more mortified than I was before.
(btw gb thanks for clearing that up)
I agree that the parent may be negligent but before I placed most if not all of the reponsiblity on him, I’d want to know how much he knew about firearms. If he had little or no experience with them, he many not have been fully aware of the danger. When I’m teaching someone new to shoot, I position myself so I can instantly reach around them to control the firearm (and shooter). No matter what, the instructor was negligent.
you’re like Jessica Fletcher on that show “Murder She Wrote”, Bob. Everytime she showed up, someone died too! If I ever see the two of you anywhere near my hometown, I’m gonna run.
Yeah Bob, but the instructor in this case is a 15 year old, so i think the negligence moves farther up the ladder. I’m not sure you can expect a 15 year old to properly supervise anyone.
Of course, every swim club in the country has teenage lifeguards…
After reading the Courthouse News link (thanks for that– enlightening), it seems obvious to me that the father bears the responsibility in this one. Their complaint says that the Gun Show owners should have known that it was illegal in MA for a minor to fire the weapon– but also states that the father “purchased the opportunity for his son … to fire a Micro Uzi 9mm automatic weapon”.
The father has the burden of exerting common sense in this case, and obviously failed on that count. The fact that the gun jammed twice had nothing to do with the fact that the child was allowed to put himself in harm’s way. The child did know how to fire the weapon, it slipped off his shoulder, and in trying to prevent the gun from dropping, it discharged (or rather, the boy accidentally pulled the trigger as it slipped).
It is a tragic accident regardless, and I have much sympathy for the family. But this not negate the fact that the father in this case acted irresponsibly in even bringing the child to the show, much less allowing him to fire an automatic weapon by himself.
George, I agree with you 100%. The club that put on the event is reponsible for the instructor and bears the brunt of the blame. The 15 year old may have been a competent intructors assistant but in my opinion should not have been the instructor in charge at an automatic firearms event.
People: Let’s cut the crap. Allowing an 8 year old kid to experience the outrageous adventures that have been described is absurd. Whether the father knew about weapons or not he should not have let the kid pick one up. There is no need nor reason to allow this experience. The father, and no one else, is responsible. I was a video clip in which the father is seen smiling and describing his DEAD 8 year old as a “budding outdoorsman”. Well guess what Dad….being an outdoorsman doesn’t include firing an automatic assault weapon ANYTIME. This father encouraged his spoiled kid to be a thrill seeker and it proved fatal.
I think Azekiel is right on the money with his comments and assessment. People have to stop looking for others to blame in unfortunate situations. No one wants to assign blame where it belongs and no one accepts personal responsibility anymore. This “father” is a prime example. He wanted a picture of this exciting event to hang in his study. Nice job.
back to the issue:
“that a 15-year-old instructor who cleared the gun and handed it back to the victim”
15 yr cleared the gun? does this mean that he unjammed the gun? or removed the ammo from the gun? the fact is was an automatic weapon and the 15 yr old allowed an 8 yr old to handle this kind of weapon? parents should be responsible, but i would definately hold the gun owner and not the show responsible. there should have been some rules to have been abided by to begin with.
All ‘cleared the gun’ means is that he looked into the chamber after a misfire or a jam to make sure there wasn’t anything blocking the chamber and handed the gun back to the kid. the gun’s malfunction didn’t have any effect on the kid shooting himself (at least it doesn’t sound that way). The kid just couldn’t handle the recoil. Besides, the gun or ammunition manufacturer is probably the last entity i’d try to sue if i were the lawyer.
Why don’t we have better regulations when it comes to firearms in this country? We seem to regulate Insurance Companies, Television, Radio, etc….but we don’t advocate for the safety of each other? Totally ludicrous! California is supposed to have the toughest gun laws in the country, but you would never know it!
I think ALL states should have a minimum age requirement to handle a gun, mandatory training to own a gun, a ban of all Uzzis and any kind of “weapons of mass destruction”, and a complete and thourough background check with a waiting period. Gun shows should be just that….gun shows…not gun “try-outs”. A loaded gun at a gun show is asking for trouble. Accidents do happen. That is why they are called accidents.
This is such a tragedy and I think we all are responsible for what happened to this boy. Although I don’t like guns, I do believe in our 2nd Amendment rights, however, a modification of the amendment is in order to protect all citizens from tragedies like this.
thank God for someone who speaks some common sense on this forum. Of course the radicals and closed minded Cheney worshippers will be all over you in a few seconds SFOInsuranceLady.
That’s OK, Rosie…….I’m ready!
I have to agree with you a 15 year instructor is ridiculous he isn’t even old enough to register a gun. But I think that the blame should be on the PARENTS. I feel that young children can carry certain guns as far hunting, maybe a pellet gun or a small 410 but an UZI? If any parents let their children handle that type of weapon is ridiculous. You might as well have given that child a machete. I feel that the gun show and parents should have equal fault. The parents shouldn’t be able to file a law suit.
First of all, we are not all to blame. That’s the liberal oozing out of you. However, having a 15 year old boy supervising an 8 year old boy is wreckless and irresponsible. Outlawing tens of millions of guns for a frightfully negligent situation like this is absurd. Let’s outlaw bicycles, reverse gear for automobiles, and plastic bags while we’re at it since these all cause more child deaths in this country than guns.
“Outlawing tens of millions of guns for a frightfully negligent situation like this is absurd. Let’s outlaw bicycles, reverse gear for automobiles, and plastic bags while we’re at it since these all cause more child deaths in this country than guns.”
——————————————
Let’s make one thing PERFECTLY clear…. I don’t believe anyone wants to outlaw guns, but it would be a very RESPONSIBLE idea to prohibit the use of any firearm or weapon stronger than a BB or Pellet gun to anyone under the age of 18. You want your right to walk around with your ego strapped to your side, I have no issues, but as I said earlier keep it away from me and mine. I’ll respect your rights, you respect mine.
Tom’s Comment: Let’s make one thing PERFECTLY clear…. I don’t believe anyone wants to outlaw guns, but it would be a very RESPONSIBLE idea to prohibit the use of any firearm or weapon stronger than a BB or Pellet gun to anyone under the age of 18.
Maybe prohibit “without adult supervision,” but not prohibit altogether. In many states, hunting with a firearm (and with adult supervision) is legal as young as thirteen or sixteen. The best programs I have ever seen for teaching gun safety have been through Boy Scouts of America — by definition aimed at those under eighteen.
I do not own a gun and have not fired one in several years, but I was taught from a relatively early age how to safely handle and fire a rifle or shotgun. I think 18 is actually far too OLD for someone to learn proper firearm safety.
About the case this article discusses, I believe there is a place at a gun show for a properly supervised and staffed firing range. If a fifteen-year-old CHILD was responsible for the safety of the range, this one was not properly supervised or staffed. The staff should not have permitted a child as young as eight to fire the weapon involved, so the gun show bears some burden of negligence.
Lots of typical hand-wringing over a horrible situation here.
Who should we blame? The gun? The gun owner? The parent? The Kid? The range? The event? The range supervisor?
Seems like most here are quick to put someone other than the child and parent in the crosshairs.
I’ve had my 8 year old out shooting all sorts of firearms (including “assualt type weapons). We practice safety regularly and go over all the firearms at home prior to heading out to shoot. he is never handling or firing weapon without my being right on top of him.
Just as with the use of any other tool or machine, there are hazards that are unique to firearms. The user must be acutely aware of everything they are doing when handling a firearm. that’s where the parent’s job comes into play.
It’s not the fact that the firearm was an UZI or that certain types of guns are more feared by non-shooters than others. The fact is that this kid was not prepared to handle shooting this or any other type of firearm.
It’s a terrible tragedy that should have been avoided by the parent!
I don’t own any guns. I don’t want to own any guns. However, I do believe in our right to bear arms, so in light of your suggestion to amend the 2nd amendment, let’s add that in order to become a parent, you have to have the common sense not to allow your 8 year old to fire an Uzi. These parents only have themselves to blame, the boy should never have been allowed to fire the gun. Gun use needs to be predicated on having a certain amount of common sense. It’s not always someone else’s fault, you have to take responsibility for your own stupid actions and in this case, the parent in charge of this young boy should have had some common sense then this tradgedy would never have happened.
Amen Marge! You hit the nail on the head.
Last I checked there is a waiting period and background check when buying a firearm. What is a shame is how easily criminals can get their hands on one. Laws only apply to those who would obey them. Glad to see so many on here who understand that. They need to enforce the laws we already have. I am all for it. Oh, one thought for you Tom, glad you support our rights. Don’t know you so I doubt I will be around you or yours. I don’t see the comment about strapping your ego being appropriate though. It isn’t about that for most responsible gun owners. For me it is a sport and home defense. My ego is not so big that I think I can handle a gun holding criminal with my bare hands or a baseball bat. Bottom line is a kid died here and it should never have happened. His father should not have allowed it and there should have been an adult supervising this.
You should have to get a license to have a child. Stop breeding stupidity.
how many people on this board will feel the same way if this happens to be one of their own children….I do beleive in our 2nd Amendment Rights, however, parental responsibility aside, there has to be some control and better regulations regarding the use of firearms. There are just too many accidents that can be avoided. This is sooooo tragic!
Things happen too fast with an automatic weapon for an 8 year old mind to process.
MAYBE slung from a harness wherein it can’t be aimed more than 5 degrees off dead center, maybe that would work. But then, why bother. Kid hiccups and 8 people get mowed down. 15 year old instructor was watching him? Was he? I love guns, but my kids wil never get more than one round and my hands will be right next to theirs. If they ever decide to take up shooting.
Here are the facts you all are not aware of:
1) His dad was standing right there when it happened. What kind of FREAKING IDIOT Parent lets his 8 year old shoot an Uzi. Let me guess the ole’ Bill Cosby routine:
“I DON’T KNOW!!!”
The judge needs to throw out the law suit based on the idiot parents. Hey SFO LADY I wouldn’t be that stupid to let my 8 year old shoot my uzi, but he does have nice grouping with the 9mm. Don’t ban the gun show, ban the STUPID PARENTS who have no idea what an Uzi will do when it is fired. It will always carry into the air with a inexperienced shooter, this is why the boy shot himself in the head.
What do you SAY, Nice going GRACE!!!
please re-read my post….putting parental responsibility ASIDE, we still need better regulations when it comes to firearms in this country. Too many “yahoos” who think they know what they are doing just happens to ruin it for everyone else.
They don’t even enforce the guns laws we have now and you want more GUN REGULATIONS.
HOW ABOUT TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBITY FOR ONES OWN ACTIONS.
Letting IDIOT DOCTOR/FATHER WITH NO BUSINESS OF HAVING HIS SON PICK UP A GUN IS THE PROBLEM.
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE NOT GUNS!!!!!
YOU WANT MORE REGULATIONS COME TO FLA, YOU”LL SEE WHAT IDIOT CHARLIE CHRIST, THE RHINO GOV. OF ALL RHINOS HAS DONE HERE WITH MORE REGULATIONS ON INSURANCE.
“Do you recall the LAWLESNESS IN NEW ORLEANS? Probably not, due to your short attention span and to details”
Of course I remeber, not only do I remember Katrina, but also the 1989 Loma Prieta EQ….I lived right through it with all of the looting, etc….I also remember Charlie Manson, Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, and most of all, COLUMBINE…need I go on?
I guess you are just one of those yahoos I described that needs to carry a firearm because he is lacking somewhere else…
It’s really very simple. The general public has no business having access to or playing with combat assault weapons designed for use by law enforcement and the military. Too many idiots looking for a quick vicarious thrill. They should be banned. I enjoy firearms too, but NOBODY needs an automatic assault weapon. This nonsense about “it’s my right to own one” has to stop. There are just some things you shouldn’t be able to do. This is one of them. It’s not about training. It’s not about supervision. It’s not about licensing. MILITARY ASSAULT WEAPONS ARE NOT FOR THE PUBLIC.
This guy played dump when straw buyers purchased weapons.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/monica_yant_kinney/20090927_Monica_Yant_Kinney__Faith_triumphs_over_firepower.html?text=med&c=y
We need Uzi’s in the hands of everyday American citizens why?
I HAVE LOST A CHILD (he was 19 and an only child)not becasue of a gun accident it was a motorcycle accident so should we take away ALL the motorcycles on the road?? At what point in time should we be responsible for our OWN actions. Now I can agree that there should have been an ADULT instructor not a 15 year old (adult b eing someone of age to register that type of gun) BUT what about the father ?? dosne’t he have SOME responsibility in this YOU DON’T HAND a gun ANY type of GUN to an 8 year old that is LOADED !!! I was raised that ALL guns a loaded PERIOD!!! I have a couple of guns myself now and I have GREAT respect for them I know how to use them (shoot, clean load, unload, check to make sure the safety is on if it’s not a revolver) you can’t make more laws or sue other just becasue you don’t like the outcome……… do you guys know why your insurance rates are so HIGH?? Yes when there is GROSS Neglance you should be able to go back against the other party. But is that going to bring this 8 year old back. NO. Will it keep gun accidents from happening. NO. It’s not the guns that are the issue it’s the opperators PERIOD ………… enforce the laws we have and learn to handle the gun you have in your hands and know that no matter what it’s a weapon with 1 purpose to KILL and treat it with the respect it deserves.
To the family of the 8 year old…….. I am so sorry for your loss NO parent should have to suffer the loss of a child. May gods peace and love be with you each and every day to help carry you through
Virginia,
Fabulous! But you and I both know that in some folks mind, instant wealth gratification due to their own stupidity is more important than PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
I’m very sorry for your loss.
Straw buyers at gun shows – this is pretty scary.
http://www.gunshowundercover.org/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=cmpContent&htmlKey=sales3&s=gunshow
Now, did I say we should “ban” firearms?!!No, I did NOT. I wish you would read my posts a little more closely. I support our 2nd amendment rights and fully support our rights to protect ourselves, however, putting parental reponsability ASIDE, we need better laws across this country (of course, enforcement goes hand-in-hand) when it comes to the ownership and the RESPONSIBILTY that comes with owning a firearm. Too many so-called “accidents” – we are only human and mistakes do happen.
Also, you can’t beleive everything you read. There are always two sides to every story. I would like to hear the other side before passing judgement.
I am very sorry for your loss, Virginia. The worst thing that can happen is to suffer the loss of a child. I have two of my own and I cannot imagine the pain of having to deal with such a loss. And the loss of this 8 year-old boy saddens me,too. That is why I am saying that not
only does there have to be personal responsibility, there has to be laws in place so a tragedy like this never happens again!
Thank you, Jake…..I couldn’t have said it better myself!
SFOInsuranceLady – If parents took responsibility, we wouldn’t have to regulate. I have the right to own a gun. I have the right to show my child how to handle – responsibly – a gun. I have the right to take my child to a gun show. I have the duty to make sure that my child doesn’t do something to get himself killed. This is a tragedy. And it should not have happened. But the main blame has to go to the parents. That is what is wrong with this country. No one owns up to their own mistakes.
That aside, I do have a problem with a minor being a trainer. I think there should be minimum experience and age. With age comes knowledge. No matter how mature a 15 year old is, they cannot understand the gravity of life. Not that all 18, 21, or 60 year-olds do. But if I am relying on someone else’s training, I want to be sure that they know how to train…
Last time I checked you don’t too many do overs regarding a mistake that someone makes with a fire arm. This why the “LIFE” argument previously mentioned by DW is sooo relavent. Parental Responsibility is the crux of this argument. Gov’t is the problem, NOT THE SOLUTION. WE DON’T NEED MORE LAWS All that allows is more LAWYER EXCUSES!!!
PS: SO SFOINS LADY you have the PEN! What law do you want to put in PLACE! We’re listening!
Grrr!!!! :)
How about not letting a MINOR show another MINOR how to use a gun, let alone a combat assult weapon….let alone let a minor into a gun show….let alone allow loaded guns at a gun show….how about banning the idiot parents that allow their inexperienced kids into these gun shows….what about banning minors from hadeling guns at all?
IMHO, I think the people who carry guns just do it to make themselves feel good because they are lacking in other aspects of their mundane lives…sad, but true.
Rosie….where are you when I need you?
Rosie has armed body guards.
SFO INS LADY. You are totally clueless. I pray you never move to FLORIDA, your interlecturally dishonest thought process is what’s wrong here. I have a concealed weapons permit. NOW YOU SAY I’M Inferior! Why do I carry? Because if you where here in FLORIDA after HURRICANE CHARLIE IN 2004 and saw how the common joe’s of the world treated a MAJOR INTERSECTION with no traffic lights due to a power outage then you’d change your mind. Then again you wouldn’t your the problem, TOO SOFT. CAN YOU SAY HURRICANE KATRINA, Do you recall the LAWLESNESS IN NEW ORLEANS? Probably not, due to your short attention span and to details. I Pray that you’ll never be car jacked like my good friends sister was in DELTONA FL. Amazing what happend when she showed her gun to the “PERP!”. You stay where your at you be just fine in your CUSHY LITTLE WORLD.
for your loss. I just can’t imagine what that must be like for you.
I would like to use your case as an example of regulation, if I may.
A motorcycle is dangerous and regulated. There are motercycle shows which can be attended by anyone. The conditions under which someone may legally drive one of those motercycles is regulated. No one screams about the injustice – you just get your license and deal with it.
Does the regulatory process protect everyone from tragedy? No, unfortunately it does not. However, I don’t believe that a motercycle is more dangerous than an Uzi.
No one should lose a child. this is a horrible situation.
Wudchuck,
That was very well said.
Thanks you for articulating those points without the emotional tug so many of us feel.
1) parents should not allow their kids into a live ammo gun show for them to shoot automatic weapons like an UZI. i do not have a heartburn with them learning from an adult instructor on proper use of a shotgun or bb gun.
2) adults should be the only allowed trainers/instructors at a gun show. it’s all about responsibility and liability. some kids at the age of 15 are smart and very well knowledgable, but they are young and still have a lot to learn in life.
3) laws: well, some are made only to be broken. some are made that truly don’t make sense, but was made to make the legislator appeared to look good only to be foolish. some, well, just don’t need to be made at all. sometimes it is just common sense that needs to be used – as in this case because there should not have been any laws written to stop a tragedy like this.
KEY: proper attention by the parent that is being a responsible parent. each situation is unique and you must as a parent be relevant to it. i think after the first time that the gun had jammed, i’d would have been cautious enough to not allow a second chance. especially an 8 yr old. this child unfortunately will not grow up nor have an 8 yr old of his own. blame? most of it to a father who felt he could buy attention instead of giving the attention.
…..however, eight-year olds with uzis could probably do a lot of damage.
We already have criminals with guns. What the NRA never seems to address is the greed factor. Namely, it’s very easy to purchase an illegal gun on the streets that more than likely was purchased legally somewhere down the iron pipeline adn re-sold on the streets for a 400% profit
Why aren’t they sewing for the fact that the gun was loaded and it was a 15 year old child who was demonstrating it? Where were the adults when all of this was going on? The person who allowed amunition to be present around children and the parents allowing their son to freely handle these weapons at the gun show are all to blame for being completely careless, negligent and inept.
I do not know the laws in Massachusetts, but if it is comparitive negligence as opposed to pure contributory negligence the defendents in this case would have liability even if it is 1% at fault. What monetary value will be put on this child’s death? There will be plenty of blame to go around and if it makes it to trial without a settlement a jury will decide who is at fault, and if it is comparitive negligence which percentage each party is at fault. From there a monetary value will be determined.
Cosmo Mannella cannot believe this has happened.
What in the world is an 8 year old doing with an Uzi machine gun with real live ammunition.
Where is the security?
OMG, condolences to the family from Cosmo Mannella and all members of LIUNA!!!
I know that I’m going to catch quite a bit of flack for saying this but the type of gun that was involved does play a large role (in addition to poor parental judgement and faulty oversight from the 15yr old range operator). When the 2nd ammendment was crafted, we didn’t have fully automatic assult weapons. Do folks really think that the intent of the 2nd ammendment was to allow the average joe to handle/purchase fully automatic assult weapons? Come on….
Darth…..that’s wha I’ve been saying all along! :)
“We need Uzi’s in the hands of everyday American citizens why?”
The real question is WHY NOT?
Actually, yes, I do think that the intent of the 2nd amendment does not preclude fully automatic weapons in the hands of civilians.
The 2nd amendment was intended to permit the citizenry to form an effective resistance in the event that their own government descended into tyranny. In order to fulfill that objective, arms comparable in scope to what the tyrant government would be using should be available to the public.
We in Massachusetts, as firearms buyers, know that to handle an unloaded arm for sale we must produce a valid certificate. How that process becomes null and void at a show is irresponsible and just that much more reckless given that the situation debated involves a loaded machine gun.
This was not a Gun Show. This was a Machine-gun Shoot. There is a difference. A gun show is a place to buy and sell firearms and related equipment, no shooting. The guns have the triggers and actions zip-tied closed or open to not allow loading of ammunition. A machine-gun shoot is a place to watch (and shoot) machine-guns.
I’ve been to dozens of gun shows. I’ve been to one machine gun shoot and it was amazing. My son, about 6 yrs old at the time and wanted to join in the fun. He was not allowed because of his size and because I had not yet trained him to shoot. I would not hesitate to allow him to shoot at a machine gun shoot if the right weapons were available. Mainly a tripod mounted heavy machine-gun or even an M16. Never a pistol sized machine-gun. Too much leverage is applied by the firearm. Anyway, it was the parent’s responsibility to make the decision and also the parent’s responsibility for the outcome. I feel bad for them as I would suffer severe grief at the loss of one of my children but then I wouldn’t allow my children to fire guns they aren’t ready for. Period.