I wonder how much Massachusetts’s implementation of universal health care had to do with this situation. Is this what we have to look forward to when Obama-care is implemented nationally? We should heed the warning.
What warning are we supposed to heed, exactly? I don’t see any connection at all, so I’m curious to hear from you how any of the reasons given in the article could be linked to universal health care. Let me guess…you’re still running around telling everyone there will be death panels in 2014, right?
No one mentioned death panels. We are specifically speaking to the lack of tort reform in your free universal heath care bill. I guess it was too subtle for an obvious Nazi Pelosi lover to discern. Maybe you’re one of the “creative” types Nazi referred to in a speech saying how nice it is that if you want to be creative (i.e. bear no responsibilty for yourself) now you can do so knowing that someone else is paying for your health care. I’m fortunate enough to rest wih the thought this mess won’t have much effect on me, don’t know if everyone else has that luxury.
The actual report spans 18 years, and cites that the index that they use to measure the “Physican Practice Environment” declined 16 of the 18 years, and was worse than the national average during that period. This would seem to support that these particular results do not reflect the recent healthcare changes in Massachusetts. As a Mass resident I would say that Massachusetts medical care has been heavily regulated since Dukakis was Governor. The latest changes for so-called universal coverage were a long-time coming.
Thank you Jeff – you’re comments were helpful (and researched).
To Gray Cat – my point is that this article is not linked at all to universal health care, yet those opposed to the new law will link anything negative they can find to it to show how horrible it is. Just as dumb as all of the other scare tactics attempted by conservatives.
“…(i.e. bear no responsibilty for yourself) now you can do so knowing that someone else is paying for your health care.” This comment makes no sense whatsoever. The new law is aimed at making sure EVERYONE PAYS FOR THEIR OWN healthcare. It doesn’t provide free coverage. Free coverage is what people are getting NOW, because they can go uninsured and still get medical treatment whenever they need it – funded by the taxpayer and those paying for their policies.
That tort reform was left out of the national healthcare bill will have ongoing consequesnce is a very valid point. YOU chose to make an ignorant remark about death panels which I didn’t see in the comment you referred to. and got called on it.
Hey, I was just repeating what Pelosi (seriously) said. While the intent may be for eveyone to pay for thier own healthcare it’s clear from comments like hers she believes otherwise. As they have said MANY times there will be subsidies for those that cannot afford to buy healthcare which I interpret (especially knowing Obama/Pelosi’s real belief) those subsidies will be up to and including payment for the whole premium. The Dems have fostered and grown a welfare culture that know nothing else but the government paying their way. Even if those receipents had to pay one penny on the dollar for the premium it’s all coming from the government anyway. I don’t know if you are just that stupid or blindingly naive Grow up and get a clue.
The article mentions ‘an aging physician work force’ as one of the issues w/healthcare in the state. Why are new doctors choosing not to practice in Mass? Is there any chance that this is connected to the states universal healthcare system? Because healthcare is universal there, more people are seeking treatment and the workload for those in the healthcare profession is dramatically increased, but there are no new physicians willing to practice there.
Gray Cat
Note that Nazi, although it stood for “national socialist” was in effect, a fascist regime which is usually connoted by an “unholy” (shall we say) alliance of government and industry, usually heavy industry and military industry.
Thus, calling Nancy Pelosi a “nazi” appears to be totally wrong. In fact, if the “traditional” pattern of political alliances in this country are considered, it would appear that the Repulicans are much closer to “nazis” than Nancy…and we all know what pain that caused our fathers and grandfathers 60 years ago (speaking of Memorial Day).
While you decry paying for someone’s health insurance, you are in fact paying for it now via inflated costs for these services. Apparently, you do not realize that you are getting “government” subsidized health insurance if your employer provides it as it is a tax write off for them, so in fact, as a substantial payor of taxes, I am paying for your healthcare.
Frankly, if I had a say in that , I would pass as you appear to be meanspitited as well as a sore loser.
Dry up. We have MUCH bigger issues with healthcare in ths country than what happens when we extend it. As long as the government is controlled by Big Pharma and Big Insurance (Health) companies and takes the filthy lucre from their lobbyist minions, we will never arrive at any equity or fairness here. Had the Grand Old Party not strone walled Obama and had it made serious and well intended efforts to actually get the best bill for THE PEOPLE (not the lobbyists and the corporations) we might have had a better bill instead of what we got. BUT I will take it if it provides portability, non deniability, and extends to those who cannot rewsonable get insurance in this “open” market we currently have today.
And yes, I do actually agree with you that certain tort reforms are truly necessary, but then, they are truly necessary in MOST situations, not just those related to medical malpractice.
When you want to stop spouting ignorant dogma and stop Obama bashing just for the sake of hearing yourself prognosticate, then we can talk.
Cassie: I used the term Nazi for Pelosi in the totalitarian sense of the word. Dems are keen on inserting themselves way too deeply into our lives for my comfort. Just FYI, I am a registered democrat and voted for Obama as I viewed him as the lesser of evils – so lighten up. I mainly fired back at “ugh” which I’m certain describes them and their life, as they inserted a stupid comment about death panels that no one referred to. That is typical of pendandent dems, no room for dissention from the party talk.
You are abundantly naive if you believe only repubs get money from industry , pharma, etc. The rest of what you said I already know but if you want to feel smugly superior as you recite the party line go ahead but what I said isn’t dogma to anyone that isn’t blinded by the kool aid would know that. I’ll be critical of O if I want as he and the rest have been a huge a disappointment for me as the idiot repubs they replaced. Just because Bush etal kept running up the deficit is no reason for O and the gang to keep adding to it but they are dems so what else should I expect from them? It’s never as simple as it seems…
Gray Cat…well, well, well…we have more in common than first blush…I agree that the GOP is not the only party in the pockets of BIG whatever…plaintiff’s bar, pharma, oil, etc…that is the biggest problem perverting our governmental processes, as I see it. I also agree that the healthcare bill that came out of Congress is a mishmash; I was one of the universal payor folks and still am. All the arguments against universal payor and govt payor are really what we have today only the large insurance companies have the “death panels”…so what’s the difference? Of course, I would only want a universal payor system if I could have 16,000 (!) inspectors checking for fraud and overcharges…something I see every day in the losses I review…
Unfortunately, we are stuck with a “binary code” political system and it is hard not to end up voting for the lesser of two evils, although I put more onus on Congress than on Obama per se.
Xerkes, maybe no one wants to be a doctor because: they cannot afford the education for it; they realize that they either need to spend most of their day handling paperwork (for the insurance companies and Medicare, Medicaid) or must expend a ton of payroll money to have someone do this task. I do not think this will get worse under a single payor, frankly. Maybe the healtcare bill will make folks actually stop and think about how to fix our healthcare mess that was irreparably broken BEFORE its passage…
It says Mass doctors are getting old…….that implies youngsters aren’t coming to Mass to practice medicine……which is exactly what us stupid conservatives fear about Obama-care……that young people won’t pursue medical degrees because they don’t want to compete with the cheap labor doctors trained by the government run National Institutes of Health………I’d prefer to do business any day of the week with private enterprise, particularly when trying to save my life. Nice try though.
So, Cassandra thinks that because businesses write off business expenses…such as employee salaries, rent, insurance, etc. that those businesses are “subsidized”…..are you joking me??? It’s called paying a tax on your profit.
And what does that have to do with me paying my own premium, with no subsidy because I’m perceived to be able to afford it, and me paying Cassandra’s premium because she chooses to freeload off the government all her life?
I wonder how much Massachusetts’s implementation of universal health care had to do with this situation. Is this what we have to look forward to when Obama-care is implemented nationally? We should heed the warning.
Oh, you betcha!
What warning are we supposed to heed, exactly? I don’t see any connection at all, so I’m curious to hear from you how any of the reasons given in the article could be linked to universal health care. Let me guess…you’re still running around telling everyone there will be death panels in 2014, right?
No one mentioned death panels. We are specifically speaking to the lack of tort reform in your free universal heath care bill. I guess it was too subtle for an obvious Nazi Pelosi lover to discern. Maybe you’re one of the “creative” types Nazi referred to in a speech saying how nice it is that if you want to be creative (i.e. bear no responsibilty for yourself) now you can do so knowing that someone else is paying for your health care. I’m fortunate enough to rest wih the thought this mess won’t have much effect on me, don’t know if everyone else has that luxury.
The actual report spans 18 years, and cites that the index that they use to measure the “Physican Practice Environment” declined 16 of the 18 years, and was worse than the national average during that period. This would seem to support that these particular results do not reflect the recent healthcare changes in Massachusetts. As a Mass resident I would say that Massachusetts medical care has been heavily regulated since Dukakis was Governor. The latest changes for so-called universal coverage were a long-time coming.
Thank you Jeff – you’re comments were helpful (and researched).
To Gray Cat – my point is that this article is not linked at all to universal health care, yet those opposed to the new law will link anything negative they can find to it to show how horrible it is. Just as dumb as all of the other scare tactics attempted by conservatives.
“…(i.e. bear no responsibilty for yourself) now you can do so knowing that someone else is paying for your health care.” This comment makes no sense whatsoever. The new law is aimed at making sure EVERYONE PAYS FOR THEIR OWN healthcare. It doesn’t provide free coverage. Free coverage is what people are getting NOW, because they can go uninsured and still get medical treatment whenever they need it – funded by the taxpayer and those paying for their policies.
That tort reform was left out of the national healthcare bill will have ongoing consequesnce is a very valid point. YOU chose to make an ignorant remark about death panels which I didn’t see in the comment you referred to. and got called on it.
Hey, I was just repeating what Pelosi (seriously) said. While the intent may be for eveyone to pay for thier own healthcare it’s clear from comments like hers she believes otherwise. As they have said MANY times there will be subsidies for those that cannot afford to buy healthcare which I interpret (especially knowing Obama/Pelosi’s real belief) those subsidies will be up to and including payment for the whole premium. The Dems have fostered and grown a welfare culture that know nothing else but the government paying their way. Even if those receipents had to pay one penny on the dollar for the premium it’s all coming from the government anyway. I don’t know if you are just that stupid or blindingly naive Grow up and get a clue.
The article mentions ‘an aging physician work force’ as one of the issues w/healthcare in the state. Why are new doctors choosing not to practice in Mass? Is there any chance that this is connected to the states universal healthcare system? Because healthcare is universal there, more people are seeking treatment and the workload for those in the healthcare profession is dramatically increased, but there are no new physicians willing to practice there.
Gray Cat
Note that Nazi, although it stood for “national socialist” was in effect, a fascist regime which is usually connoted by an “unholy” (shall we say) alliance of government and industry, usually heavy industry and military industry.
Thus, calling Nancy Pelosi a “nazi” appears to be totally wrong. In fact, if the “traditional” pattern of political alliances in this country are considered, it would appear that the Repulicans are much closer to “nazis” than Nancy…and we all know what pain that caused our fathers and grandfathers 60 years ago (speaking of Memorial Day).
While you decry paying for someone’s health insurance, you are in fact paying for it now via inflated costs for these services. Apparently, you do not realize that you are getting “government” subsidized health insurance if your employer provides it as it is a tax write off for them, so in fact, as a substantial payor of taxes, I am paying for your healthcare.
Frankly, if I had a say in that , I would pass as you appear to be meanspitited as well as a sore loser.
Dry up. We have MUCH bigger issues with healthcare in ths country than what happens when we extend it. As long as the government is controlled by Big Pharma and Big Insurance (Health) companies and takes the filthy lucre from their lobbyist minions, we will never arrive at any equity or fairness here. Had the Grand Old Party not strone walled Obama and had it made serious and well intended efforts to actually get the best bill for THE PEOPLE (not the lobbyists and the corporations) we might have had a better bill instead of what we got. BUT I will take it if it provides portability, non deniability, and extends to those who cannot rewsonable get insurance in this “open” market we currently have today.
And yes, I do actually agree with you that certain tort reforms are truly necessary, but then, they are truly necessary in MOST situations, not just those related to medical malpractice.
When you want to stop spouting ignorant dogma and stop Obama bashing just for the sake of hearing yourself prognosticate, then we can talk.
Cassie: I used the term Nazi for Pelosi in the totalitarian sense of the word. Dems are keen on inserting themselves way too deeply into our lives for my comfort. Just FYI, I am a registered democrat and voted for Obama as I viewed him as the lesser of evils – so lighten up. I mainly fired back at “ugh” which I’m certain describes them and their life, as they inserted a stupid comment about death panels that no one referred to. That is typical of pendandent dems, no room for dissention from the party talk.
You are abundantly naive if you believe only repubs get money from industry , pharma, etc. The rest of what you said I already know but if you want to feel smugly superior as you recite the party line go ahead but what I said isn’t dogma to anyone that isn’t blinded by the kool aid would know that. I’ll be critical of O if I want as he and the rest have been a huge a disappointment for me as the idiot repubs they replaced. Just because Bush etal kept running up the deficit is no reason for O and the gang to keep adding to it but they are dems so what else should I expect from them? It’s never as simple as it seems…
Gray Cat…well, well, well…we have more in common than first blush…I agree that the GOP is not the only party in the pockets of BIG whatever…plaintiff’s bar, pharma, oil, etc…that is the biggest problem perverting our governmental processes, as I see it. I also agree that the healthcare bill that came out of Congress is a mishmash; I was one of the universal payor folks and still am. All the arguments against universal payor and govt payor are really what we have today only the large insurance companies have the “death panels”…so what’s the difference? Of course, I would only want a universal payor system if I could have 16,000 (!) inspectors checking for fraud and overcharges…something I see every day in the losses I review…
Unfortunately, we are stuck with a “binary code” political system and it is hard not to end up voting for the lesser of two evils, although I put more onus on Congress than on Obama per se.
Xerkes, maybe no one wants to be a doctor because: they cannot afford the education for it; they realize that they either need to spend most of their day handling paperwork (for the insurance companies and Medicare, Medicaid) or must expend a ton of payroll money to have someone do this task. I do not think this will get worse under a single payor, frankly. Maybe the healtcare bill will make folks actually stop and think about how to fix our healthcare mess that was irreparably broken BEFORE its passage…
Ugh,
It says Mass doctors are getting old…….that implies youngsters aren’t coming to Mass to practice medicine……which is exactly what us stupid conservatives fear about Obama-care……that young people won’t pursue medical degrees because they don’t want to compete with the cheap labor doctors trained by the government run National Institutes of Health………I’d prefer to do business any day of the week with private enterprise, particularly when trying to save my life. Nice try though.
So, Cassandra thinks that because businesses write off business expenses…such as employee salaries, rent, insurance, etc. that those businesses are “subsidized”…..are you joking me??? It’s called paying a tax on your profit.
And what does that have to do with me paying my own premium, with no subsidy because I’m perceived to be able to afford it, and me paying Cassandra’s premium because she chooses to freeload off the government all her life?