This sounds a little over the top! Are they also banning bottled beer? What about dart boards – those rubber tipped darts might pierce a jugular! Pool cues?
Sad thing that happened but is just a freak accident!
Actually yes they are to use plastic bottles like they do at the Gillette and other stadiums. This was an intentional act and unfortunately not an accident. People need to be protected.
how is it intentional when the #1 was fighting with #2, #1 threw the glass at #2, missed, the glass hit the wall, and a shard flew off haphazardly hitting #3 and killing him. Definitely a freak accident. I love a frosted glass mug for my beer…guess I’ll just drink at home.
Well let’s look at it this way. Lots of people + lots of alcohol + glass = accident eventually bound to happen. IMHO I’m all for bars and nightclubs “voluntarily” using plastic bottles, glasses, etc.
some scumbag attorney for the beaner who threw the glass will argue he didn’t intend to injure the victim. Too bad. It was his stupidity,lack of self-control, and negligence that caused the death. He should be held liable, not the bar, not the bottle. Beer mugs are damned heavy and heaving one is prima facie evidence that he intended to harm someone.
Most definitely a freak accident – like DD72 said, the kid wasn’t directly involved in the fight. I don’t see how the bar would bear any responsibility in this at all. The only one at fault is the guy who threw the glass. Not sure about the rest of you, but I prefer drinking my beer in a frosted mug or my martini in a martini glass – not a plastic Dixie cup.
problem with that Lucy is that whereas you or I (and I’m assuming on your part) would have a drink or two in relative moderation, some Mensa members out there feel that they have to drink themselves into irresponsibility and eventually unconsiousnessto have a good time and believe that the best way to do that is in public with as many targets as possible for their beer mugs and cars.
I’m still sour about bans on concealed weapons.. I now have to roll up my sleeves before I walk in places, and showcase my “guns” to comply… man my biceps are HUGE!
So the bar and it’s patrons are going to be denied the opportunity to enjoy a frosted mug of beer because of at least idiot? The authorites are requiring the bar to use plastic cups? Maybe the district attorney or some other government bureaucrat would have the patrons to use straws as well.
Mr. Hector Guardiola is he legal or illegal? He is guilty of manslaughter because his intentional action caused someone else’s death.
There is presumption of risk. A patron must accept bar fights occur and the potential injury. The death should not have occurred. And, Mr. Guardiola is the responsible party.
To those of you who see in this just another case of the nanny state trying to destroy our second amendment right to beer arms, I just want to say: I’ve been to this place. And you know what? This was an accident waiting to happen.
Besides appealing to that curiously angry mix of frustrated post-frat lost boys and slick commercial fake-Irish-ness, this place has no sense of crowd control whatsoever. When things turn ugly at Lansdowne, they do so quickly.
This was the first bar in which I’d ever been witness to a full-on bar-wide brawl. The entire establishment exploded with drunk bulls-in-china-shops going at each other because, you know, “bro, don’t step to me,” or whatever was the deal. We saw it happen from up close, and in a matter of seconds it escalated from these 2 guys who happened to have bumped into each other, to maybe 30 or 50 people just blindly hammering everything in sight. My wife almost got hurt bad when some dude slammed another dude into us; another female friend of ours got banged up too.
But it isn’t just the clientele that’s asking for trouble. The place is seriously designed to fail in catastrophic ways. Take a cavernous space, pretty much all wide-open, and then flood it with booze and sensory overload—lights and music and sounds and flatscreens everywhere with 30 different flavors of Sports Center. OK, I just defined lots of Boston clubs. But now imagine that there are basically no outlets from the central melee, and that there is just plain no attempt to manage the crowds they have.
Forget the plastic cups; this place needs a complete redesign of the interior, to ensure that a fight between two angsty tools doesn’t again end up injuring or killing all those around who didn’t do enough PCP to remain unharmed. And then I’d require much more security detail.
This ain’t about glass vs plastic. It’s about knowingly creating a very dangerous situation, night after night. If the article had just said “this happened somewhere in Boston” I could have told you exactly where it occurred. Ugly, ugly ugly situation there. Can’t say I’ll be returning.
Well, the bar might bear some responsiblity because they might have been able to
1. Stopped serving him when they could tell he was drunk
2. Attempt to stop the fight before it started
But since I wasn’t there, I couldn’t tell you if they did or could have.
First, I discontinued frequenting “bars” or “pubs” years ago. Any one with 1/2 a brain understands that where people congregate, consume alcohol sometimes to excess and have entertainment of an aggressive nature; some idiot or a group of their friends will cause trouble.
Second, any object can be used as a weapon whether intentional or unintentional to cause bodily injury. A plastic cup manipulated cut flesh.
Third, if you would to demonstrate your alpha male mentality, please try the “Bloody Bucket” outside Spartanburg, SC. I left with all my teeth!
I see the logic where excess drinking and volatile situations occur such as sporting events or sports bars with heated rivalies between fans.
When are we, collectively, going hold the criminals responsible for setting events in motion to the civil law and stop going after the small business person.
Example: someone breaks into my home with a knife or gun. He has done so with the intention of not getting caught and if necessary to cause my death. Should I terminate his crime by killing him, I could potentially be sued in civil action. Or maybe worse be charged criminally for using deadly force to protect my person, property and/or family.
What is the logic? Law Enforcement does not stop crime, they merely document a crime has occurred. A 44 Magnum stops crime by terminating a criminal’s behavior.
A 44 Magnum. Yeah. Just feel the macho flow through your veins as you say it. So let’s all be just peachy with setting up accidents waiting to happen, and then respond after the fact with force. That’s a much better plan of attack than proactively defusing the event, reducing liability for everyone involved and increasing safety for the innocent bystanders. Yeah. Brilliant.
The US Government has screwed peoples’ brains in thinking they’re safe! The world is a very dangerous place. Yet, in Israel and Switzerland there aren’t bank robberies. One must ask why?
Because every person serves two (2) years national military service. They are taught to respect weapons and how to use them. They have the right to carry their weapons with them every where…even on private property.
Maybe you believe only governments need guns? Both Lenin and Hitler restricted guns from public ownership before coming to power. Do you hear the news or understand the problems in Arizona.
As far as AA meeting, I consume less than a six pack of beer per year.
I thought beer goggles were adequate protection up to this point. That, and I try to stay out of the “duck ‘n swings”. (i.e. “The Flaming Mug” in Fayetteville, NC) I’ve seen some nasty damage from people getting hit with beer bottles in my military days. Glass and angry drunks don’t mix well
Regarding the case of the Landsdowne Pub, any establishment in which fights are commonplace owes a duty to the public to take measures to prevent these fights. Yes, the man who started the fight bears liability, but when you have a situation which locals/regulars clearly see is “an accident waiting to happen”, the establishment owner has been lax in his duty. This is puzzling, because bar fights can’t be good for business.
I love how you “pro-business” people want to do whatever you can to relieve business owners from the well-justified duty to exercise the reasonable care of a prudent businessman.
I agree the bar owner bears reasonable responsibility to provide a “safe” environment. Beer mugs, pool sticks, bar stools, ect are not the same as guns. Many bars screen for guns and knives.
Based on your logic….the government of California must be liable for a California driver while on vacationing in North Carolina who causes a death by motor vehicle accident. Your logic blames California for issuing the California drivers license.
Well, the whole point of this article is “EXCESSIVE” use of force.
If someone breaks into your house, unarmed, they do not present an immediate threat to you if they are unarmed and you are armed. If you can incapassitate the intruder without killing them, you have a duty to do just that. Just because someone steals something of yours does not allow you to take out your own vigalante justice out on them.
Now a .44 to me can be excessive, but to each his own. I’ll stick with my 9mm.
Tough Guy: You hit the nail right on the head. Glass and angry drunks don’t mix so you’ve got to eliminate one or the other. Obviously, Boston knows that they can’t eliminate the angry drunks (it’s Boston after all) so they will eliminate the glass. Hoepfully it won’t migrate to a Federal law. I, too, prefer cold glass mugs at home.
I don’t understand the widespread fascination with frosty beer mugs. What kind of garbage beer do you have to be drinking so that it is actually BETTER at 30F than it is at 45F?
This sounds a little over the top! Are they also banning bottled beer? What about dart boards – those rubber tipped darts might pierce a jugular! Pool cues?
Sad thing that happened but is just a freak accident!
Actually yes they are to use plastic bottles like they do at the Gillette and other stadiums. This was an intentional act and unfortunately not an accident. People need to be protected.
how is it intentional when the #1 was fighting with #2, #1 threw the glass at #2, missed, the glass hit the wall, and a shard flew off haphazardly hitting #3 and killing him. Definitely a freak accident. I love a frosted glass mug for my beer…guess I’ll just drink at home.
Well let’s look at it this way. Lots of people + lots of alcohol + glass = accident eventually bound to happen. IMHO I’m all for bars and nightclubs “voluntarily” using plastic bottles, glasses, etc.
not to mention those toothpicks with the umbrella thingees on top or the hearing loss from all the drunken karakoe singers
If he drowned that would have to ban all liquid products. Then where would the be?
Isn’t this like the argument that guns don’t kill people, people kill people? What is next – nerf beer bottles?
This was a nice kid meeting friends and not causing any trouble who didn’t deserve
this. If it were your son perhaps it wouldn’t be so funny.
some scumbag attorney for the beaner who threw the glass will argue he didn’t intend to injure the victim. Too bad. It was his stupidity,lack of self-control, and negligence that caused the death. He should be held liable, not the bar, not the bottle. Beer mugs are damned heavy and heaving one is prima facie evidence that he intended to harm someone.
Ritchie, your a classy guy. Way to throw out the racial slurs in making your point. Solid!
Well you gotta admit it does take a certain breed of knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, brain donor to start chucking beer mugs at each other.
Most definitely a freak accident – like DD72 said, the kid wasn’t directly involved in the fight. I don’t see how the bar would bear any responsibility in this at all. The only one at fault is the guy who threw the glass. Not sure about the rest of you, but I prefer drinking my beer in a frosted mug or my martini in a martini glass – not a plastic Dixie cup.
problem with that Lucy is that whereas you or I (and I’m assuming on your part) would have a drink or two in relative moderation, some Mensa members out there feel that they have to drink themselves into irresponsibility and eventually unconsiousnessto have a good time and believe that the best way to do that is in public with as many targets as possible for their beer mugs and cars.
I’m still sour about bans on concealed weapons.. I now have to roll up my sleeves before I walk in places, and showcase my “guns” to comply… man my biceps are HUGE!
Ahh speak of the devil(s)
So the bar and it’s patrons are going to be denied the opportunity to enjoy a frosted mug of beer because of at least idiot? The authorites are requiring the bar to use plastic cups? Maybe the district attorney or some other government bureaucrat would have the patrons to use straws as well.
Mr. Hector Guardiola is he legal or illegal? He is guilty of manslaughter because his intentional action caused someone else’s death.
There is presumption of risk. A patron must accept bar fights occur and the potential injury. The death should not have occurred. And, Mr. Guardiola is the responsible party.
To those of you who see in this just another case of the nanny state trying to destroy our second amendment right to beer arms, I just want to say: I’ve been to this place. And you know what? This was an accident waiting to happen.
Besides appealing to that curiously angry mix of frustrated post-frat lost boys and slick commercial fake-Irish-ness, this place has no sense of crowd control whatsoever. When things turn ugly at Lansdowne, they do so quickly.
This was the first bar in which I’d ever been witness to a full-on bar-wide brawl. The entire establishment exploded with drunk bulls-in-china-shops going at each other because, you know, “bro, don’t step to me,” or whatever was the deal. We saw it happen from up close, and in a matter of seconds it escalated from these 2 guys who happened to have bumped into each other, to maybe 30 or 50 people just blindly hammering everything in sight. My wife almost got hurt bad when some dude slammed another dude into us; another female friend of ours got banged up too.
But it isn’t just the clientele that’s asking for trouble. The place is seriously designed to fail in catastrophic ways. Take a cavernous space, pretty much all wide-open, and then flood it with booze and sensory overload—lights and music and sounds and flatscreens everywhere with 30 different flavors of Sports Center. OK, I just defined lots of Boston clubs. But now imagine that there are basically no outlets from the central melee, and that there is just plain no attempt to manage the crowds they have.
Forget the plastic cups; this place needs a complete redesign of the interior, to ensure that a fight between two angsty tools doesn’t again end up injuring or killing all those around who didn’t do enough PCP to remain unharmed. And then I’d require much more security detail.
This ain’t about glass vs plastic. It’s about knowingly creating a very dangerous situation, night after night. If the article had just said “this happened somewhere in Boston” I could have told you exactly where it occurred. Ugly, ugly ugly situation there. Can’t say I’ll be returning.
“There is presumption of risk. A patron must accept bar fights occur and the potential injury.”
Please let me know what bars you frequent so I can do my upmost to avoid them.
Well, the bar might bear some responsiblity because they might have been able to
1. Stopped serving him when they could tell he was drunk
2. Attempt to stop the fight before it started
But since I wasn’t there, I couldn’t tell you if they did or could have.
But this is a reason why I don’t frequent bars.
First, I discontinued frequenting “bars” or “pubs” years ago. Any one with 1/2 a brain understands that where people congregate, consume alcohol sometimes to excess and have entertainment of an aggressive nature; some idiot or a group of their friends will cause trouble.
Second, any object can be used as a weapon whether intentional or unintentional to cause bodily injury. A plastic cup manipulated cut flesh.
Third, if you would to demonstrate your alpha male mentality, please try the “Bloody Bucket” outside Spartanburg, SC. I left with all my teeth!
If it’s one of those plastic “picnic” cups, it’s going to take a lot of manipulating believe me.
But seriously I see a lot in an argument for having bars replace the heavy glass beermugs with plastic versions. I mean look at major sport venues.
BTW, “The Beer Barn” in Davie, Florida. (bring your own spitoon)
What about the earth?
We don’t need any more plastic glasses or bottles.
Maybe the bartended can squirt it from the spigot.
HEY who let the Tree Hugger in?
I see the logic where excess drinking and volatile situations occur such as sporting events or sports bars with heated rivalies between fans.
When are we, collectively, going hold the criminals responsible for setting events in motion to the civil law and stop going after the small business person.
Example: someone breaks into my home with a knife or gun. He has done so with the intention of not getting caught and if necessary to cause my death. Should I terminate his crime by killing him, I could potentially be sued in civil action. Or maybe worse be charged criminally for using deadly force to protect my person, property and/or family.
What is the logic? Law Enforcement does not stop crime, they merely document a crime has occurred. A 44 Magnum stops crime by terminating a criminal’s behavior.
A 44 Magnum. Yeah. Just feel the macho flow through your veins as you say it. So let’s all be just peachy with setting up accidents waiting to happen, and then respond after the fact with force. That’s a much better plan of attack than proactively defusing the event, reducing liability for everyone involved and increasing safety for the innocent bystanders. Yeah. Brilliant.
Maybe all of you posters should consider AA meetings. Then you would not worry about bar safety for yourselves.
Just a thought!
The US Government has screwed peoples’ brains in thinking they’re safe! The world is a very dangerous place. Yet, in Israel and Switzerland there aren’t bank robberies. One must ask why?
Because every person serves two (2) years national military service. They are taught to respect weapons and how to use them. They have the right to carry their weapons with them every where…even on private property.
Maybe you believe only governments need guns? Both Lenin and Hitler restricted guns from public ownership before coming to power. Do you hear the news or understand the problems in Arizona.
As far as AA meeting, I consume less than a six pack of beer per year.
I thought beer goggles were adequate protection up to this point. That, and I try to stay out of the “duck ‘n swings”. (i.e. “The Flaming Mug” in Fayetteville, NC) I’ve seen some nasty damage from people getting hit with beer bottles in my military days. Glass and angry drunks don’t mix well
Ah, got to love that false sense of security which guns bring. Here are the results of 30 seconds’ Google work:
2002 bank robbery in Israel: http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/safe-deposit-boxes-rifled-in-israels-biggest-bank-robbery-60790.html
2010 robbery in Swiss casino: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/28/switzerland.casino.robbery/index.html
Regarding the case of the Landsdowne Pub, any establishment in which fights are commonplace owes a duty to the public to take measures to prevent these fights. Yes, the man who started the fight bears liability, but when you have a situation which locals/regulars clearly see is “an accident waiting to happen”, the establishment owner has been lax in his duty. This is puzzling, because bar fights can’t be good for business.
I love how you “pro-business” people want to do whatever you can to relieve business owners from the well-justified duty to exercise the reasonable care of a prudent businessman.
I agree the bar owner bears reasonable responsibility to provide a “safe” environment. Beer mugs, pool sticks, bar stools, ect are not the same as guns. Many bars screen for guns and knives.
Based on your logic….the government of California must be liable for a California driver while on vacationing in North Carolina who causes a death by motor vehicle accident. Your logic blames California for issuing the California drivers license.
Well, the whole point of this article is “EXCESSIVE” use of force.
If someone breaks into your house, unarmed, they do not present an immediate threat to you if they are unarmed and you are armed. If you can incapassitate the intruder without killing them, you have a duty to do just that. Just because someone steals something of yours does not allow you to take out your own vigalante justice out on them.
Now a .44 to me can be excessive, but to each his own. I’ll stick with my 9mm.
Ol Sam Malone would never have let this happen at his bar.
This sort of thing is common in the UK due to the dangers of bar fights and glass.
Besides, there are high quality washable plastic glassware products out there, we’re not talking about picnic cups here.
Even high quality plastics have phenols (carcenogen) leaking from them. Doctors have warned about consuming soft drinks and water from them.
And, what happened with “Green”!
Comedian Carlin said it best, earth created man from amino acids so that he could create plastic….bacause earth wanted plastic for herself.
Tough Guy: You hit the nail right on the head. Glass and angry drunks don’t mix so you’ve got to eliminate one or the other. Obviously, Boston knows that they can’t eliminate the angry drunks (it’s Boston after all) so they will eliminate the glass. Hoepfully it won’t migrate to a Federal law. I, too, prefer cold glass mugs at home.
I don’t understand the widespread fascination with frosty beer mugs. What kind of garbage beer do you have to be drinking so that it is actually BETTER at 30F than it is at 45F?