Let me be the first to expose the “Amishification of America.” I have it on good authority from an anonymous source (hint: his last name is “Stoltzfus”) that the Amish are secretly plotting to take over the country. It all started with the “Amish Space Heaters” you often see advertised on late night TV (which is pretty ironic, since the Amish never get to see their own commercials), and is now slowly spreading to quality carpentry. Before you know it, McDonalds will start selling Shoo-Fly Pie Milkshakes, all married men will be suddenly grow beards, and we’ll all have at least 13 kids!
Remember folks, you heard it here FIRST! When you start seeing horses and buggies on the turnpike, don’t say you weren’t warned!
Independent contractors have had it too good for too long and think they’re “entitled” to jobs. On the other hand, the Amish have a better work ethic and have consistently produced better quality work than other contractors. Given the choice, I’d pick an Amish worker over a union worker everytime. Being “organized” has nothing to do with competence and quality. In this market, whoever delivers the finished product at the most competitive price will win.
Have the independent contractors forgotten the age old saying, “If you build a better mouse trap …..etc. Inferior work seems to be the norm anymore. I support any group that practices quality and value.
I hear ya. Just more proof that Obama is a Socialist or Facist (I forget what day it is), the Mosque in lower manhattan shouldn’t be built, and the Tea Party and Fox News are the only ones who can save us.
As a small business owner my wife’s chief competition in her marketing area is a non-profit organization using volunteer labor. She does just fine in competing with them as she does a quality job at a fair price and you can trust her. There will never be completely level playing fields in business. The people you want to buy services from are those in it for the long haul, whose word is better than a contract. No doubt these are reasons the Amish are are threat.
Since that response from the owner struck me as odd, I did a quick search. It took me 60 seconds to ascertain that Stoltzfus & Sons Builders of Kinzers actually DOES appear to have Work Comp coverage, according to both the PCRB and PA Department of Labor. Not sure where the source came from for the article, but it appears to be an unfair depiction. I’m just saying… Interesting take on the “Amish Effect”, though.
My guess is that the Amish don’t use union labor with all the benefits and sorry work rules. The Amish believe in hard work and personal responsibility, something that other contractors and companies in our society could learn from.
Nobody can argue the superior work ethic of the Amish and the quality of their finished work. This is not the issue here. To expect one business to pay SS taxes and carry WC covereage while another gets to go without incurring that cost is unfair.
Funny, but i hear of contracting firms that hire under the table workers so they don’t have to pay all the taxes, WC etc.
Amish just have a legal way of doing it.
Now that the Amish are savy to the ways of the business and the loop-holes to around taxes and insurance – when will they file their first law suit against the building owner after one of the Stoltzfus partners falls off the roof?
In some states there are laws that say if a project owner does not verify the WC coverage before the job starts, and there is none, the owner is on the hook for the WC benefits. Residential is usually excluded, but I would think twice before hiring a group without confirming WC.
McLean manages to blast Amish for no WC (thereby their losses are on them 100%)and use that as a pricing excuse, ignoring the fact that GL and AUTO rates are less in the outer counties, yet his company Hancock … has WC, but no roofing classification #659 ergo – premium evasion.
Just another Contractor/ GC / scamming the rating issues to avoid the #659 class rate and trashing the Carpenter class’ rates with the roofing exposures hurting legitimate Carpenters.
What some of these contractors have done to avoid premiums in the WC and GL sectors playing around with payroll has played havoc for years. Yet – when a claim hits, they’re like bees on honey.
McLean also fails to tell interviewer Mr Brubaker that his WC is surcharged 28% because of claims. But thats still not reflecting the roofing exposure. His rate would be even higher.
I find it amusing that this little article has generated so much discussion. I also find it surprising that the Amish are doing business in the real world. Supposedly, they don’t believe in banks,telephones, internet, electricity, modern plumbing etc. They must have changed their ways to some degree if they are doing contracting in the business world. Perhaps they are Amish in name only.
If Mr. McLean is so incensed that the Amish don’t pay some of the government charges that he must, why doesn’t he and other English contractors try to eliminate or reduce WC and payroll taxes? Instead, he blames the Amish, who take care of their own needs and cover each other, for his own lack of initiative, and takes on a victim mentality. It would seem that there would certainly be sympathetic legislators who would work at reducing some of the overhead costs.
the difference is Mennonites drive cars and have some modern amenities, but Amish do not. Either way, the work ethic is still there and these “contractors” are crying because the harder and faster working competition is cutting in on the richy rich Main Line customers they are used to whacking for some big bucks….
I agree. The answer is to get rid of Socialist Security and let PEOPLE be responsible for their retirement (not the Fed. Gov.). In addition, all employees should take personal responsibility for getting hurt on the job (or anywhere else for that matter. That would be fair for everyone.
The Amish appear to have upset the applecart in this case. They work hard, finish on time and do quality work which is sorely lacking in this society. The complaining contractor is caught up in union labor, high costs, poor quality and is used to gigging his customers with overuns. Kind of like what the government is doing.
the other people you need to watch out for are the A.I.N.O.’s (Amish In Name Only). They’re the ones that show up at your house in a horse and buggy, put up a brand-new roof in a day, cook you a nice Pennsylvania Dutch meal, and charge half of what a union contractor does (and STILL not carry workers comp). If you look close, you’ll notice the “Gucci” labels on their straw hats and probably also find yourself wondering how an Amishman can quote all the lines of the movie “Witness” when everyone knows that Amish aren’t supposed to watch movies…
Trust me, I grew up in Lancaster County. This kind of thing happens all the time.
I liked the movie Witness. I am sure there are some of the Amish that live a lot like those people do, but I have to think that some of them have been Americanized to some degree. How can a contractor get by in this society without some electronics and phones etc? They also build fireplaces etc and advertise some for those. Perhaps they hire people to manage their business and take care of the paperwork etc.
The Amish do not pay into Social Security AND, they do not get any benefit out of it. They self-insure virtually EVERYTHING. When a member of the church falls ill, they arrive at the hospital and pay in cash. If we were all as responsible as the Amish the country would be in substantially better condition that it is today.
Did he really say, they have no life, they just work? Really? Two words: intense stupidity. He deserves to lose business to those with a higher IQ.
The Amish are all about Personal Responsibility and Hard Work. Too bad this country has degenerated into the gimmee, gimmee crowd who thinks the world owes them a living. If the Amish values and work ethic spread across the country, we would certainly be better off in the long run. I am not advocating that we live like they do, but just adopt their formula for success.
I spent one year in Amish country and found them to have the positive attributes expreesed in many of these postings. Work hard, high quality and TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. They do use 3rd parties for many things such as driving vehicles, advertising and such. They do not seem to ever look to others for a remedy to their problems. They just handle them themselves. No lawsuits, no lawyers. At least they would have long term unemployment benefits right now.
Please…The amish rarely pay full retail like we do for health care. How many Amish in Mexico? China? If they dont get subsidized, they don’t live there. Life without SS….sure. What are your parents living on now? Your love i suppose. That and cat food.
The Amish don’t pay full price because they negociate the fee just as the insurance companies and medicare does. The insurance companies base their rates on the billed price but acutally pay way less than that. That is why there is all the money in the health insurance business!!
Let me be the first to expose the “Amishification of America.” I have it on good authority from an anonymous source (hint: his last name is “Stoltzfus”) that the Amish are secretly plotting to take over the country. It all started with the “Amish Space Heaters” you often see advertised on late night TV (which is pretty ironic, since the Amish never get to see their own commercials), and is now slowly spreading to quality carpentry. Before you know it, McDonalds will start selling Shoo-Fly Pie Milkshakes, all married men will be suddenly grow beards, and we’ll all have at least 13 kids!
Remember folks, you heard it here FIRST! When you start seeing horses and buggies on the turnpike, don’t say you weren’t warned!
Independent contractors have had it too good for too long and think they’re “entitled” to jobs. On the other hand, the Amish have a better work ethic and have consistently produced better quality work than other contractors. Given the choice, I’d pick an Amish worker over a union worker everytime. Being “organized” has nothing to do with competence and quality. In this market, whoever delivers the finished product at the most competitive price will win.
Have the independent contractors forgotten the age old saying, “If you build a better mouse trap …..etc. Inferior work seems to be the norm anymore. I support any group that practices quality and value.
I hear ya. Just more proof that Obama is a Socialist or Facist (I forget what day it is), the Mosque in lower manhattan shouldn’t be built, and the Tea Party and Fox News are the only ones who can save us.
As a small business owner my wife’s chief competition in her marketing area is a non-profit organization using volunteer labor. She does just fine in competing with them as she does a quality job at a fair price and you can trust her. There will never be completely level playing fields in business. The people you want to buy services from are those in it for the long haul, whose word is better than a contract. No doubt these are reasons the Amish are are threat.
Since that response from the owner struck me as odd, I did a quick search. It took me 60 seconds to ascertain that Stoltzfus & Sons Builders of Kinzers actually DOES appear to have Work Comp coverage, according to both the PCRB and PA Department of Labor. Not sure where the source came from for the article, but it appears to be an unfair depiction. I’m just saying… Interesting take on the “Amish Effect”, though.
My guess is that the Amish don’t use union labor with all the benefits and sorry work rules. The Amish believe in hard work and personal responsibility, something that other contractors and companies in our society could learn from.
Nobody can argue the superior work ethic of the Amish and the quality of their finished work. This is not the issue here. To expect one business to pay SS taxes and carry WC covereage while another gets to go without incurring that cost is unfair.
Joseph,
You are an idiot.
Bob–
I’ll see you in hell.
Bob, I think Joseph was attempting humor with his comment and you took it literally.
They do not dress like the Amish in PA, but they also work with out paying taxes or WC coverage.
There must be a lot of Amish in Latin American…..
Funny, but i hear of contracting firms that hire under the table workers so they don’t have to pay all the taxes, WC etc.
Amish just have a legal way of doing it.
Now that the Amish are savy to the ways of the business and the loop-holes to around taxes and insurance – when will they file their first law suit against the building owner after one of the Stoltzfus partners falls off the roof?
Good point. If they start working in NY, it is only a matter of time before that happens.
In some states there are laws that say if a project owner does not verify the WC coverage before the job starts, and there is none, the owner is on the hook for the WC benefits. Residential is usually excluded, but I would think twice before hiring a group without confirming WC.
McLean manages to blast Amish for no WC (thereby their losses are on them 100%)and use that as a pricing excuse, ignoring the fact that GL and AUTO rates are less in the outer counties, yet his company Hancock … has WC, but no roofing classification #659 ergo – premium evasion.
Just another Contractor/ GC / scamming the rating issues to avoid the #659 class rate and trashing the Carpenter class’ rates with the roofing exposures hurting legitimate Carpenters.
What some of these contractors have done to avoid premiums in the WC and GL sectors playing around with payroll has played havoc for years. Yet – when a claim hits, they’re like bees on honey.
McLean also fails to tell interviewer Mr Brubaker that his WC is surcharged 28% because of claims. But thats still not reflecting the roofing exposure. His rate would be even higher.
I find it amusing that this little article has generated so much discussion. I also find it surprising that the Amish are doing business in the real world. Supposedly, they don’t believe in banks,telephones, internet, electricity, modern plumbing etc. They must have changed their ways to some degree if they are doing contracting in the business world. Perhaps they are Amish in name only.
There are different ‘degrees’ of Amish for lack of a better word. The definitions escape me right now. NO different than any other goup.
If Mr. McLean is so incensed that the Amish don’t pay some of the government charges that he must, why doesn’t he and other English contractors try to eliminate or reduce WC and payroll taxes? Instead, he blames the Amish, who take care of their own needs and cover each other, for his own lack of initiative, and takes on a victim mentality. It would seem that there would certainly be sympathetic legislators who would work at reducing some of the overhead costs.
the difference is Mennonites drive cars and have some modern amenities, but Amish do not. Either way, the work ethic is still there and these “contractors” are crying because the harder and faster working competition is cutting in on the richy rich Main Line customers they are used to whacking for some big bucks….
I agree. The answer is to get rid of Socialist Security and let PEOPLE be responsible for their retirement (not the Fed. Gov.). In addition, all employees should take personal responsibility for getting hurt on the job (or anywhere else for that matter. That would be fair for everyone.
The Amish appear to have upset the applecart in this case. They work hard, finish on time and do quality work which is sorely lacking in this society. The complaining contractor is caught up in union labor, high costs, poor quality and is used to gigging his customers with overuns. Kind of like what the government is doing.
the other people you need to watch out for are the A.I.N.O.’s (Amish In Name Only). They’re the ones that show up at your house in a horse and buggy, put up a brand-new roof in a day, cook you a nice Pennsylvania Dutch meal, and charge half of what a union contractor does (and STILL not carry workers comp). If you look close, you’ll notice the “Gucci” labels on their straw hats and probably also find yourself wondering how an Amishman can quote all the lines of the movie “Witness” when everyone knows that Amish aren’t supposed to watch movies…
Trust me, I grew up in Lancaster County. This kind of thing happens all the time.
“Trust me, I grew up in Lancaster County. This kind of thing happens all the time.”
I don’t trust people that say “trust me”. Trust is earned not forced or requested.
I liked the movie Witness. I am sure there are some of the Amish that live a lot like those people do, but I have to think that some of them have been Americanized to some degree. How can a contractor get by in this society without some electronics and phones etc? They also build fireplaces etc and advertise some for those. Perhaps they hire people to manage their business and take care of the paperwork etc.
The Amish do not pay into Social Security AND, they do not get any benefit out of it. They self-insure virtually EVERYTHING. When a member of the church falls ill, they arrive at the hospital and pay in cash. If we were all as responsible as the Amish the country would be in substantially better condition that it is today.
Did he really say, they have no life, they just work? Really? Two words: intense stupidity. He deserves to lose business to those with a higher IQ.
Nuff said.
The Amish are all about Personal Responsibility and Hard Work. Too bad this country has degenerated into the gimmee, gimmee crowd who thinks the world owes them a living. If the Amish values and work ethic spread across the country, we would certainly be better off in the long run. I am not advocating that we live like they do, but just adopt their formula for success.
AMEN
AMEN
I spent one year in Amish country and found them to have the positive attributes expreesed in many of these postings. Work hard, high quality and TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. They do use 3rd parties for many things such as driving vehicles, advertising and such. They do not seem to ever look to others for a remedy to their problems. They just handle them themselves. No lawsuits, no lawyers. At least they would have long term unemployment benefits right now.
Please…The amish rarely pay full retail like we do for health care. How many Amish in Mexico? China? If they dont get subsidized, they don’t live there. Life without SS….sure. What are your parents living on now? Your love i suppose. That and cat food.
The Amish don’t pay full price because they negociate the fee just as the insurance companies and medicare does. The insurance companies base their rates on the billed price but acutally pay way less than that. That is why there is all the money in the health insurance business!!