Chaos and Destruction as New York City Protest Turns Violent

By | June 1, 2020

  • June 1, 2020 at 1:05 pm
    Craig Winston Cornell says:
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    I listen for specific solutions and find almost none offered. People across America are primarily people of good will, who are asking, “what should we do”? And we don’t hear any specific solutions offered.

    This seems like a Primal Scream with many sources of frustration as the cause. And very few solutions. We say we must not accept hate, and nearly everyone agrees. Very few people think of themselves as racist and for the most part, they are correct. We say we must stop police abuse and racism, and everyone agrees.

    But what do we do? Blaming groups of people we disagree with? Never works, the lesson of Mandela and Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Blaming people only makes them stop listening.

    What do we do?

    • June 1, 2020 at 2:23 pm
      rob says:
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      Excellent post. I think the whole country is at a loss right now of what to do right now. It’s been one tragedy after another.

      Man, 2020 has sucked so far…

      • June 1, 2020 at 3:30 pm
        Common Sense says:
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        • June 1, 2020 at 3:52 pm
          rob says:
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          Great point, Agent, because no protests were held in any red states!

          apparently you stopped reading Craig’s post where he said, (and I’ll paraphrase with apologies to Craig), “Blaming groups of people we disagree with…never works. Blaming people only makes them stop listening.”

          This is not a time for politics. Shame on you.

        • June 2, 2020 at 9:18 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Agent,
          What about my Republican governor? See all the destruction in Des Moines and other cities in Iowa? This movement is happening in blue and red states and is a result of not addressing these types of injustices years ago. Further, the divisive rhetoric stemming from the top of the house didn’t provide anything positive, it further the fury and now here we are with curfews on top of what will be an explosion in virus cases. Add the skyrocketing unemployment and this country is falling apart at the seams.

    • June 1, 2020 at 3:34 pm
      Rosenblatt says:
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      I listened for specific solutions in your post and found none offered. So what do YOU think we should do?

      • June 1, 2020 at 3:57 pm
        rob says:
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        Actually, this is one of the cases where Craig is admitting he doesn’t have any solutions. I don’t know that anyone does, honestly…Look, I don’t agree with a lot of what he posts or his tone most of the time, but that one was spot on.

        • June 1, 2020 at 4:14 pm
          Rosenblatt says:
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          I should’ve stated up front that I also agree with Craig’s post in its entirety.

          What got me was his line of “…And very few solutions” implying that he knows of, or has some solutions of his own, which he thinks might work.

          Just trying to point out he’s saying nobody’s offering any solutions, yet he threw in a line that he knows some solutions exist, but he’s not posting what they are.

          • June 1, 2020 at 4:47 pm
            Craig Winston Cornell says:
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            This one time, I am going to ignore the obvious spit balling . . .

            I have heard two ideas and none other.

            I like both ideas: first, invite someone from another race over for dinner in the next 3 months to your home, someone who has never been there. Ideally if you are white, invite someone who is black. If you are black, invite someone who is white, etc. etc.

            The other idea is to have cops responsible for enforcing the law against other cops when they cross the line, the same as they would for a citizen breaking the law.

            There are other things that should be done, but they tend to fall on one side of the partisan divide or the other. I could say we should listen to each other, but I have no hope of that happening.

          • June 1, 2020 at 4:58 pm
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Thank you for posting your suggestions. I really like your “have cops responsible for enforcing the law against other cops when they cross the line” suggestion and wish we see more of it happening sooner rather than later.

          • June 1, 2020 at 5:51 pm
            Jon says:
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            Your second idea is actually valid. If we have 1000 “good” cops and 12 bad cops but the 1000 don’t turn in the 12, we have 1012 bad cops. This is what we’ve been dealing with.

            The system is entirely broken. Another black man was just killed in Louisville by the police, and turns out he’s respected pro-police business owner. To the cops it was just another black man. And the body cameras were off yet again.

            America is watching all of this, the same footage of reporters being arrested or pepper sprayed is out there. I just watched a video of an old white man who pulled out a hunting bow and arrow and fired it into a crowd after yelling about All Lives Matter.

            This country has a serious problem with systemic racism. We need a drastic restructuring of many systems to tackle this problem. You can’t commodify every single aspect of living and then not understand looting as a legitimate form of protest. Looting is the ultimate strike against a system that deems mass-produced objects to be far more precious than life itself. It is humanity demanding to be recognized by capitalism.

            We need a ban on the use of knee holds and choke holds as an acceptable practice for police officers.

            The Use of Force Continuum for any police department in the country needs to ensure that there are at least 6 levels of steps with clear rules on escalation.

            Each State’s Open Records Act needs to ensure officer misconduct information and disciplinary histories are not shielded from the public. Recertification credentials may be denied for officers if determined that their use of deadly force was unwarranted.

            Implementation of Citizen’s Review Boards in municipalities to hold police departments accountable and build public confidence.

            No more “the body cameras were off”. If they were off, you lose your job and are brought up on charges for destroying evidence. I bet those cameras will stay on just fine.

          • June 2, 2020 at 8:17 am
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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      • June 2, 2020 at 8:11 am
        PolarBeaRepeal says:
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        Here’s an offering of a pathway to quelling civil unrest.

        Set up a series of Town Hall meetings in Minneapolis for other cities to monitor. If the other cities with civil unrest feel they need such meetings, so be it.

        The purpose of the Town Hall meetings is to bring together the ‘sides’ and those in-between the ‘sides’…. for ongoing discussions of the reasons for the unrest. Politicians and other leaders; e.g. large employers, unions, and other social groups must send representatives to speak and listen. Leaders should promise to, but would not be obligated to, follow through on solving the major, persistent, problems that all parties agree are the underlying source of the unrest.

        Those ‘protesters’ (i.e. criminals) who continue to damage property and harm innocent people should be arrested after this pathway to solutions are offered. Arrest ANYONE traveling into Minneapolis or other cities with civil unrest for the purpose of causing unrest or damage or violence if they disguise themselves and are not carrying ID. Arrest ANYONE that the police order to disperse but who do not. The reasons for the actions suggested in this paragraph should be clear. If not, read the US Constitution carefully, and not rely on someone’s interpretation of it.

        • June 2, 2020 at 8:23 am
          PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          Also, review the multiple sources online of definitions of ‘unrest’ carefully. It is distinct from ‘protest’ or ‘peaceful protest’.

          There are qualifiers for meeting the definition of ‘peaceful protest’. Disrupting traffic or otherwise interfering with the civil rights of others (e.g. injury or property damage) does not qualify as ‘peaceful’.

        • June 2, 2020 at 8:24 am
          Rosenblatt says:
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          “Leaders should promise to, but would not be obligated to, follow through on solving the major, persistent, problems that all parties agree are the underlying source of the unrest.”

          So part of your solution is “everyone agrees these are the problems, but gov’t is under no obligation to fix the problems.” That’s not a solution, that’s playcation.

          “Arrest ANYONE that the police order to disperse but who do not.”

          Including the press?

          Including people who are simply sitting on their own porch steps?

          Including people who are not violating curfew and are protesting peacefully?

          • June 2, 2020 at 8:32 am
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          • June 2, 2020 at 8:35 am
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          • June 2, 2020 at 8:38 am
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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          • June 2, 2020 at 8:42 am
            PolarBeaRepeal says:
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            Read the MULTIPLE definitions of ‘unrest’ available from multiple sources instead of choosing your preferred definition… to troll me.

            Read the US Constitution and Amendments re: Freedom to Assemble, and not Freedom of Speech as incorrectly interpreted by those with a political agenda.

            Return with posts of those definitions and wordings.

          • June 2, 2020 at 11:13 am
            Rosenblatt says:
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            Why can’t you answer these simple questions seeking clarification of your solution?

            “Arrest ANYONE that the police order to disperse but who do not.”

            Including the press?

            Including people who are simply sitting on their own porch steps?

            Including people who are not violating curfew and are protesting peacefully?

        • June 2, 2020 at 9:26 am
          Captain Planet says:
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          Yogi,
          A strong majority of the protesters are doing so peacefully. The last time I checked, peaceful protesting isn’t against the law. Anyone causing vandalism in any way or robbing any store or person should of course be arrested. You can’t just go arresting protesters. Did you say the same thing when we had The War Against Baskin Robbins and Haircuts protest? And, people are allowed to cross state lines in the United States. None of this, “May I see your papers, please?” That’s also a non-starter. Having a town hall meeting is going to set a stage for conflict. It will congregate outside of the town hall and will escalate. Also, a non-starter. The system of injustice must be corrected. That’s what leaders need to talk about and solve for.

  • June 1, 2020 at 6:12 pm
    Craig Winston Cornell says:
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    The most important thing I could recommend will never happen. Have everyone serious about solving these problems commit to listening to facts from all sources, and commit learning things they never knew before, even if counter to their pre-conceived ideas..

    Will never happen.

    • June 1, 2020 at 6:20 pm
      Jon says:
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      You don’t need to add the political BS on the end. We all know your definition of “Fact” veers far from reality. We don’t need the “All lives matter” both-sidesism right now.

      • June 1, 2020 at 7:23 pm
        Craig Cornell says:
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        And there you have a perfect expression of why nothing will ever get done . . .

      • June 2, 2020 at 8:26 am
        PolarBeaRepeal says:
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        Thanks for proving Craig’s point so succinctly with an example of his claim.

      • June 2, 2020 at 3:17 pm
        bob says:
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        “We don’t need the “All lives matter” both-sidesism right now.”

        Yes, we do. One side has paraded into fantasy land regarding racial conflict, the other has been dismissing all their grievances, of which there are many. I recall a 5 year old being tossed off a mall balcony. It was awful. It was not the result of racism. It was just a crazy black dude tossing a white kid off a balcony. We did not riot or take every opportunity to make something about race. Black lives matters creates a very horrible tense and potentially violent atmosphere. We should take care of laws that apply to everyone, not one race. The police issue is not racial, and I will explain this below, but black lives matters applied to police is counterproductive, and is the reason for far too much rioting.

        https://www.conservativereview.com/news/can-incarceration-rates-racist-reflect-actual-crime-rates/

        This is the only chart I have found that breaks things down in a way that makes everything make sense.

        Violent crime being the key words. You can take this to double up on police’s likelihood to kill any race, in neighborhoods with high rates of crime, even if the offender is not engaging in it, the police are more likely to hurt people, and this includes also a second aspect, low income crime neighborhoods, not because of the low income people themselves, but because the police are low funded, and thus poorly trained.

        African American folks not only engage in more violent crime, and thus there are more neighborhoods numerically which end up having more aggressive police, (which also happens in white neighborhoods with more crime, there are just less of them as a percentage of the total white population, ergo why there is less exposure for white folks and less death, it has nothing to do with racism, the towns which have more exposure have more death as well) as well as there are much more low income African American communities. When one takes this into consideration, it is simply not true they are being targeted. There does seem to be a severe across the board issue when police are in an area which has high crime rates, or, is underfunded. These two aspects can be taken on without regard to race. We already have laws to take care of that. We don’t have good funding or process to take care of these cities though that are having issues. What makes the more complicated, is each city deals with it themselves. You cannot make uniform change.

        But, more on point on the grievances I said one side lets go of,

        https://www.conservativereview.com/news/can-incarceration-rates-racist-reflect-actual-crime-rates/

        African Americans make up 12% of the population(42 million), yet of violent crimes against another race, they committed 547,948 violent crimes against white folks, and white folks committed 59,778 against black folks. I’m sorry, it simply is not true there is a huge racist movement in America. Despite being nearly a 10th the size of population, they committed almost 10 times the violent crimes black to white as opposed to white to black. If this kept up, over say 40 years, you would have a 5.5% chance of being attacked by a white person, there are about 197,000,000 white people in America (not Hispanic etc, though I question this, as many Hispanic folks are mixed and call themselves Caucasian. I did until I was well past 20) you would have an 11.1 percent chance of being attacked by a black person. This is 1/10. That is a number I start to have a problem with. However, important to note, twice the rate as opposed to the other way.

        It’s true that it’s difficult to paint that picture, as the same folks commit much of the violence on either side, so to, the same demographics of folks usually get attacked. More importantly though in that scale is how often African Americans murder their own. If white folks wanted to kill you guys so bad, they are doing a pretty bad job of it. It seems to me, they avoid killing African Americans if anything, though even that, could just be an exposure aspect (perhaps people are too divided) but on that front I’m just playing with the numbers for the heck of it, I admit.

        A big take away here, is when media talks about crimes, they generally compare all crimes, or unarmed confrontations with the cops. There is a reason both of those don’t work.

        When you compare low level crimes you do not get a picture of violence, or what gets the police to become aggressive.

        When you on a case by case basis compare confrontation with the cops, you leave out the tension in the city the confrontation occurred. If a sniping incident occurred in a police town, I would imagine the next few months the police would be very aggressive for example. If you’re in a high crime neighborhood in Detroit, I would imagine the cops would be aggressive year round. It is unfortunate for the unarmed African Americans who happen to be put in those situations, and cities, largely due to poverty, or small bad culture bubbles across the country (in other words like 1% of African Americans making it bad for everyone) but that has to be dealt with by either getting the police better trained, or removing the bad eggs.

        • June 2, 2020 at 4:34 pm
          Jon says:
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          Fun fact before you try to deny that systemic or structural racism are things again:

          benjerry.com/home/whats-new/2016/systemic-racism-is-real

          Even Ben and Jerrys ice cream knows more than you. Delightful. I’m going to buy a tub of americone dream tonight just because of that.

        • June 2, 2020 at 4:57 pm
          Rosenblatt says:
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          “When you compare low level crimes you do not get a picture of violence, or what gets the police to become aggressive.”

          Begin Sarcasm: Thank god the police responded to George Floyd’s felony and that Breonna Taylor was committing a violent offense. End Sarcasm.

          IF YOU IGNORE LOW LEVEL CRIMES WHICH LEAD TO THE DEATH OF AN AMERICAN AT THE HANDS OF THE POLICE, YOU ARE BLINDED AND CANNOT SEE THE FULL PICTURE OF THE PROBLEM.

      • June 2, 2020 at 5:28 pm
        Jon says:
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        LOL you just like to pretend race isn’t actually an issue because you don’t want to deal with your white privilege. You would have to admit that you’ve been given an advantage in life because of your race, and your narcissism won’t allow you to see that. Try harder, troll.

  • June 2, 2020 at 8:31 am
    PolarBeaRepeal says:
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    To state that some people will never change is ‘right wing propaganda?!

    “Your (P)president just quite LITERALLY waged war against (A)american citizens”. Really?! Who won that LITERAL war?

    Please keep posting your amusing ‘Bologna Virus crap’.

  • June 2, 2020 at 9:39 am
    Mr. Integrity says:
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    Unfortunately, the rights of everyone are lost when protests of any type spiral into violence chaos, and organized looting. You can’t have it both ways and the minority always find a way to ruin it for the majority.

    You fight fire with fire. Establish order and then create opportunities for dialogue. We are beyond any rationale or sensible approach to quell the abject violence and destruction that is wrecking the lives of everyday, law abiding citizens and their communities.

    Hold the line!

    • June 2, 2020 at 10:36 am
      Jon says:
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      For one, why are you posting on two names on the same board, Agent? We all know it’s you.

      For two, you’re right! As soon as violence of any type occurs, the protestors lose any ground. Just like the civil rights movement, right? When the cops turned tear gas on those black people for no reason it was really their fault!

      You are delusional. My small town’s peaceful protest ended in tear gas just last night, and there was no violence, the cops just wanted to end it. Try to actually pay attention to the world and you might be surprised. I don’t expect that though, you’re too delusional to actually open your eyes.

      • June 2, 2020 at 3:22 pm
        Common Sense says:
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        Jon, you know nothing. Integrity was on this blog while you were still in diapers which I suspect was not long ago. Your immaturity and lefty ideology is what makes you repugnant to intelligent people. Take a hike!

    • June 2, 2020 at 3:24 pm
      Common Sense says:
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      Good one Integrity. Sure it will be voted down by the lefty crowd, but good one nonetheless.

      • June 2, 2020 at 4:02 pm
        Jon says:
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        Agent is now congratulaing himself on different screen names because no one else will LOL

      • June 2, 2020 at 5:37 pm
        Captain Planet says:
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        And again, Agent, please see my comments above. Andrew said calling someone a “lefty” is in violation of comment board etiquette. You wouldn’t walk in someone’s line on the green, would you?

  • June 2, 2020 at 11:28 am
    cicero says:
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    Amazing that we can afford military-grade weaponry for police departments but not housing for veterans or healthcare for all…smh

    End qualified immunity, investigate police unions, set up citizen accountability boards with real power/influence, and VOTE (or run for office yourself) at the local level and elect new sheriffs and DA’s!

    • June 2, 2020 at 1:36 pm
      Captain Planet says:
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      You are spot-on, cicero! Only, those types of reforms won’t happen with this president. This president would rather tear gas a pathway to a photo opportunity where he uses The Word of God as a prop. Even the religious hierarchy who oversee that church have called him out for this action and his behavior in general. This is a complete disaster and we have no leadership who is committed to actually solving for this. It seems he is hellbent on creating more turmoil. I never thought I’d see a tyrannical US government in my lifetime. And, now, here we are. I didn’t think I’d see this type of a pandemic, either. And, he did so little to address it. Is he intentionally trying to destroy the country or is he just that naive? Your solutions to start like a great place to at least start. I’m hoping those and others can and will be considered stemming from these protests. And, these protests are not only happening here. In cities across the globe, people are protesting the human right violations happening in America.

  • June 2, 2020 at 6:00 pm
    Captain Planet says:
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    Flash bangs and tear gas used on peaceful protesters to create a path for a photo opportunity abusing The Bible as a prop is:

    A) What Jesus would do
    B) Is the antithesis of what Jesus preached about, lived, and died for

    Those are the only two options. At what point will morality be more important to those who claim to be a follower of Christ than the politics of this sociopath?



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