The valuation of a total loss is secondary to the central issue here. The personal auto policy insures a specific vehicle, not it’s cash equivalent. The problem arises because most car owners want to take advantage of a T/L situation to buy a different, or newer car. If they would accept an LKQ replacement vehicle, they are made whole and returned to their pre-loss position. That’s what the insurance product is supposed to do. Most loss payee will accept a substitution of collateral so the owner loses nothing. This is a mirror image of settling jewelry claims. It shouldn’t matter what it costs to replace the stone so long as it’s LKQ. In many cases, they want the highest price to convert to cash, not replace the property. If people want a specific guarnteed value, they should pay for a stated value policy.
The cost to replace a like replacement vehicle IS the replacement cost. Period. I would gladly accept the insurance company going out and buying an identical car to the one the at-fault driver destroyed… but that would cost them… wait for it… the same dealer replacement values that the customers would have to spend to buy that same comp off the lot! Yet the insurance companies do not offer this price. So they are not offering to “make whole” a customer with a lowball offer. Period.
When you purchase a vehilce do you ask the dealer for the highest value they will give you? No you ask for a fair deal or best or lowest. ~ so your asking the insurance company to give you the highest value but you turn a raound and buy the cheapest ~
So if you get more / pay less that is a profit ~ a loss is not a profit.
If the insurance company is showing you the research and the research has the same or lesser mileage of your vehilce and all the equipment options ~ how is that not making you whole.
Also you purchase a car lets say for $25,000 out the driveway ~ your car is totalled, 4 years later ~ and you owe $6500. The insurance net settlement after your $500.00 deductible is $6700.00 your upset because the insurance company has to pay your lien holder ~ to get the title~and you get the balance of $200.00~most people feel no this is wrong!! Why? you have insured the vehicle not the loan ~ plus the insurance company is paying off your . Before the loss you had a car with a loan balance.
it is nearly impossible to find an exact car ~ for mileage alone ~ and if an insurance company ofered you one ~ I guarantee no one would be happy ~ the color is not the same,the seats dont feel like my car did~ Consumers have a misconception of what the actual scope of the insurance.
Insurance Co’s should pay the average NADA price that auto dealers expect to get and buyers expect to buy, with adjustments for mileage and options. When my car was totaled, by an 95 yo neighbor, Liberty Mutual paid my $1,200 less than the NADA price by using an “Insurance company only” appraiser named CCC One. It’s really no different than me having my brother appraise my car. He would have my interests at heart, because he is my brother. There needs to be a 3rd party with no financial stake.in the tranaction and NADA or KBB would be better.
You are wrong on so many points. Insurance policies insure property for its “actual cash value.” When the policy doesn’t define “ACV” look to the courts who probably have. In a perfect market the ACV is the cost of the exact vehicle in the same condition as the one totaled; it’s as simple as that. Since the market is not perfect, I agree most people buy a different car; make, style, age, etc. That is the insured’s choice and has nothing to do with what the policy promises. One shouldn’t have to purchase a stated value policy to get their insurance company to pay them the amount of money it would take to duplicate the car they insured; simple as that. I will guarantee you that no insurance company will pay one cent more that the cost of duplicating the insured vehicle!!
Your jewelry example. I also found your example to be another case of an insurance company not paying what they owed. Let’s take these examples. You have a rare and collectable car which you could sell for $100,000. Not wanting to fight with your insurance company, you insure with a stated value policy and pay $5,000 in annual premium. The car is totaled and you expect to get and do get $100,000 in settlement. You also insure a diamond ring that you paid $50,000 for so you insure it on a Jewelery Floater that is added to your homeowner policy at the cost of an additional $1,200 in premium. The ring is destroyed. Your HO company offers you $23,000 for it because they have an agreement with a specific jeweler to discount the piece because the insurance company promises to replace all jewelry on claims with the a same jeweler. In both cases the insurance premium you paid is based on the amount you insured the item for (car or ring). So in the case of the ring you paid premium to cover the cost you paid; $50,000 but they only pay our $23,000. Who is getting the golden screwdriver here? The insurance company obviously charge you too much to insure the ring.
In most cases the policy belongs to the owner of the other car. A stated value policy is not possible if someone else is the policy holder. In my case, the insurance never offered an LKQ vehicle. They only offered a check.
I’ve been in the claims business for 40 years and done everything from work the street to regional claim mgr.and have seen this industry run into the ground by the bean counters.
I had a suburban totaled in Georgia several years ago and CCC did the original estimate. What a joke. After months of back and forth I settled the case for many thousands more than it would have cost them had they done their job right the lst time. CCC lst est was around $14,000 for a decked out Sububan. They paid about $24,000 before it was over.
As we pass off our job duties to others who think it can be done on a computer with little or no expense, the law suits keep adding up. The real loss however is in reputation, not even the people we insure like the claims departments anymore and that’s something the presidents and CEO’s seem to care nothing about.
Tom, agree 100%. I started in the insurance claims business in 1967. The company requirement of adjusters was; pay every claim like the insured is your grandmother, and “the only good claim is a closed claim.” Every year insurance companies have gotten worse and worse.
Tom, can insurer be held responsible to insured’s own valuer if the insurance company appraiser was inaccurate about the car, claimed to have inspected at residence when autos were not at residence and failed to date or sign the valuations . I am a specialized real estate appraiser myself with extensive litigation, expert witness expertise and such omissions, discrepancies, misdeeds would discredit totally. Can i do a valuation myself. I am not a disinterested third party but the owner, the Geico adjuster is not disinterested third party either.Any advice. I am not desperate to settle and believe that GEICO is being reckless especially with the low balling.
I had an accident about a year and a half ago. This was a faily new (50 weeks old)Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 12,000 miles on it. When I looked around to replace the vehicle with it’s equivilent, the CCC valuation wasn’t even close. My truck was decked out and had always been kept pristine. (I’m just very particular about my vehicles).
I ended up being hassled, by my own company, over “condition”. Turns out that anything that didn’t just get hit as it was rolling off the lot is automatically “fair” or “average” condition. It’s never in “good” or “excellent” condition. I have to tell you, I’ve seen a lot of vehicles over the years that are that same age. Some are barely fit to be ridden in, others (like mine) look brand new unless you look at the odometer.
After finally producing car wash receipts showing that it had been washed 50 times over the past 50 weeks, they finally agreed to “good” and we at least got close.
The vehicles that they were touting as comps? Those were vehicles that had already been sold, for far less than their advertised price, based on some negotiation and we not available for sale. When I attempted to purchase a comparable vehicle, the dealers laughed at the amount that I was offering. For what they offered I could buy a significantly less equipped vehicle, or one that was significantly older.
The real zinger? Rental car coverage stops the day they determine settlement. Not the date that I agreed to it, not the day that I received the check (that would take about another week as they cleared liens, etc…, as the lienholder would NOT accept a substitution of vehicle)…. this rather eliminates the luxury of spending a few days looking for an appropriate replacement and negotiating a price.
Ultimately, I accepted a compromised amount and bit the bullet and bought a new truck. At least new vehicle prices were down for Ford trucks last April! Now I have another year of car payments I didn’t want, a newer vehicle (which I really didn’t need or want to buy)and a shaky feeling about the claims process with my own company…. one that I’ve bragged about for years.
The folks who handled the claim were good folks and just doing what they were supposed to, but they were relying on data from CCC that I consistently get complaints about. I used to dismiss these as malcontents until I went through the process of trying to purchase one of their “comps”.
I hate to say it, but I’m glad to see that they got sued this time. I usually hate these sort of things.
I also had a total loss last year and the original estimate was from CCC. While I was waiting for the company to make their settlement offer, I did my own research. Mine was an older car (almost 10 years) and the CCC estimate was based on auto trader magazine and newspaper ads. I countered with blue book and dealer prices that I found and we reached a compromise.
CCC should be used as a benchmark or starting point for negotiations. The insurance company is ultimately responsible for what they offer and the insured is responsible for what he accepts. Companies should be willing to give a litte for good customers. If it’s your 3rd accident in 2 years, don’t expect any favors. And 3rd party claims are another story.
I’ve worked with many different insurance companies all using CCC as an evaluation source. What many insurance professionals forget is they still need to think. By relying solely on the value CCC produces mistakes can easily be made. It’s a tool, a tool to make an evaluation. More often than not it DOES reflect an accurate market value. There are occasions when adjustments need to be made and it’s up to the adjuster to do so. Adjusting claims is an art, if not we could turn it over entirely to computers. Certainly that wouldn’t be fair. Too many people don’t fully understand their insurance policy, the claims process, and the extent a vehicle depreciates over time. For someone who understands those things more often than not CCC should be right on.
The key to Bill Nagy’s comment is LKQ — like, kind, and quality. I work with dealers and vehicle brokers across the country who buy and sell cars every day, and we designed our Like Exchange(tm) program to help insurers and consumers cost effectively replace damaged and total loss vehicles with truly equivalent ones. “Truly equivalent” are the operative words here.
The problem with any traditional replacement program is that the insured still has to go through the car purchasing experience. Insurers call around to dealerships to find a similar car and then send their customers out to look at them. Unlike the customer who knows EXACTLY what equipment it had and the condition it was in, insurers aren’t checking with the dealer to ensure that the vehicle had never previously been damaged or had any other type of adverse history. We worked with one situation in which the insurer insisted it could replace a particular total loss vehicle for $16,800. The broker told the insurer it could not be equivalently replaced for less than $18,100. The insurer insisted that it had found an area car for $16,800. Turns out the broker had been present at the auction when that very car was sold with a frame damage announcement, and it simply was not equivalent to the insured’s pre-accident vehicle.
Additionally, if the vehicle is financed, the financing entity has to approve the substitution of collateral. It can be difficult obtaining bank approval for the substitution, and banks typically treat these situations as new loans requiring new credit approval, rather than as what it really is — a substitution of collateral.
Anyone interested in a truly comparable vehicle replacement program can contact http://likeexchange.com
you do not detail if this is a first or third party claim. If it is your insurance company please review your policy under the appraisal area. I have had extemely good sucess helping consumers.
I AM CURRENTLY TRYING TO SETTLE WITH MY INSURANCE COMPANY AT THIS TIME. I HAD A T/L FOR MY EDDIE BAUER EXPEDITION AND THEY WANT TO PAY ME A SIGNIFICANTLY LESS AMOUNT FOR THIS VEHICLE D/T CCC. KELLEY BLUE BOOK AND NADA BOTH RECORD A HIGHER AMOUNT SHOULD BE PAID FOR THE SAME VEHICLE THAT I HAD. TITAN WANTS TO SETTLE WITH ME BASED ON THE CCC PRICE. I HAVE REFUSED TO SETTLE AND I HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATING WITH THEM FOR 3 WEEKS NOW. I REFUSE TO SETTLE FOR A LESSER AMOUNT. IT IS NOT THE MONEY, IT IS THE PRINCIPLE.
since they are your insurance company, check out your wording under the appraisal process. take titan right out of the picture. My experiences with the appraisal process against either ccc or adp has been very favorable. e-mail me your # and we can talk.
I am in the process of trying to settle a total loss claim where my insurance company has used CCC to do the evaluations and they have under valude the vehicle by $3 to 4 thousand dollars.
HOW DO WE GO ABOUT HAVING OUR TOTAL LOSS CLAIM INVESTIGATED. MY INLAWS CAR WAS TOTALED IN JULY AND THEIR SETTLEMENT WAS TOTALLY UNFAIR. THE INSURANCE COMPANY AMEX, WOULDN’T WAIVER IN THE SETTLEMENT! THE BIGGEST ARGUMENT…4 TIRES PURCHASED 3 WEEK PRIOR TO THE ACCIDENT FOR $300. THEY GAVE $45. TOTAL FOR THE TIRES AND WOULDN’T GIVE ANYTHING ELSE. THE COMPS THEY USED HAD 78,000 MILES, INLAWS CAR 28,000 AND GAVE ON 856. FOR MILEAGE. THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN REPLACE THEIR CAR LKQ FOR WHAT AMEX IS GIVING THEM.
my e-mail is autodamageconsult@att.net,you do not say if this claim is being paid for under their insurance policy or the other at fault carrier. Send me your number and i will call you. Maybe i can help.
I was also insured by AMEX and ccc did a valuation on my car. It blue books for over $6000 but they valued at $2400. I refused to settle and I am hiring an attorney. I put new tires, brakes and alignment about 6 weeks before the accident and 2 weeks prior, I also spent $1250 on a new ac compressor & expansion valve. none of that is being considered and neither are any of my comp vehicles.
Sharon, an attorney is one option, a potentially somewhat lower cost option when you do not agree with the value is the appraisal clause in your policy.Send me an e-mail @ autodamageconsult@att.net with a contact # and i would be glad to speak with you.
Local market valuations are often unreliable. For example, CCC and ADP valuations of the exact same car (VIN) in West Virginia differed by more than $1,000 for 45% of the cars and more than $2,000 for 15% of the cars. Even CCC valuations of the exact same car (VIN) can differ by $1,000 and more. Statistically speaking, CCC valuations are generally $900 to $1,200 lower than ADP valuations. Not surprisingly, most insurers choose CCC to value your car. Also bear in mind that, if you are a 3rd party claimant (the party not at fault for the accident), a Baltimore law firm advises that insurers have no duty of good faith and fair dealing in settling your claim. For a few tips to help you verify that your settlement check reflects the customary and reasonable cost of replacing your car, visit inusa.com/trueloss/index.htm
. . . why aren’t companies like CCC and insurance companies who use CCC’s fraudulent valuations to base their offers for totaled vehicles prosecuted for insurance fraud for low-balling valuations–especially when consumers/victims can well document the current condition of their vehicle ?
In fact, why don’t we define the word FRAUD. One website, http://www.dictionary.com defines fraud as:
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3.
A. One that defrauds, a cheat.
B. One who assumes a false pose; an imposter.
This is exactly what CCC Information Services, their customer insurance companies, and the insured drivers of these companies are doing to twice victimize consumers all over the country.
I am currently involved in a third party claim with an insurance company located in Phoenix, AZ., that is using a CCC valuation. While I was in stop-and-go traffic, an 18-wheel gravel truck plowed into a Tahoe; the Tahoe plowed into a Frontier pickup; the Frontier then plowed into me. The Frontier’s front bumper ended up even with my shattered rear window. In other words, the front end of the Frontier was sitting in my trunk. The police report found the 18-wheeler driver at fault, stating the drive failed to maintain a safe speed.
I am going round-and-round with an insurance company located in Phoenix, AZ. Initially, the insurance company based their offer one of CCC’s fraudulent valuations that claims to have used comparable vehicles located in Phoenix, AZ and surrounding counties. The problem is, I live in Texas! I pointed this out in one of my letters, and I pointed out the fact that the CCC valuation states that, per information given to them by the insurance company, the valuation is based on my home town zip code. I don’t know or care whether the valuations in Phoenix are worth more or less than the valuation in Texas; the fact is, someone from the insurance company or CCC Information Services falsified insurance documents to obtain a fraudulent valuation based on vehicles in Phoenix, and not Texas! Just based on this single attempt to defraud me, it seems I should be able to pursue both the insurance company AND CCC for fraud.
In yet another letter to the insurance company, I pointed out the fact that each of CCC’s fraudulent valuations makes note that per Arizona laws, a consumer can be prosecuted for trying to inflate claims, while CCC fraudulent valuations failed to mention any consumer protection laws such as the Texas Deceptive Trade Practice Act, or portions of the Texas Insurance Code related to fraud!
CCC also based both of their fraudulent valuations (1st one based on comparable vehicles in Phoenix, the 2nd one based on vehicles in Texas) on a base model 1997 Altima, while mine is a 1997.5 GXE Altima; yet each of CCC’s fraudulent valuations continue to list non-1997.5 GXE models as comparable vehicles. The 1997.5 has additional safety features that both the insurance company in Phoenix and CCC refuse to acknowledge. That is, they refuse to acknowledge that these additional safety features increase the valuation. I also faxed the insurance company over 50 pages of receipts and documents related to my vehicle (including a copy of a portion of the original window sticker that identified it as a 1997.5 vehicle). I kept my vehicle well maintained and many of the parts replaced on the vehicle were lifetime warranty items from Autozone, O’Reilly’s Auto Parts, and Pep Boys, as well as recently replaced A/C compressor, new struts (last summer), but the insurance company, based on the CCC valuation, refuse to make any valid offer for my vehicle.
In one of the letters to the adjuster, I pointed out that one of two things happened: 1) either he failed to submit the 50+/- pages of documentation to CCC before they did their valuations and they ignored it, or 2) he simply DID NOT SUBMIT the 50+/- pages of documentation to CCC.
The limit in small claims court in Texas is $5,000. The Loss of Use, tax, title, and license fees, damaged personal property in the vehicle, and towing and storage fees exceeds $5,000. This doesn’t include past, current or future medical bills related to this accident.
I don’t think I can pursue them using the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act–but it would be nice. Are there any class action lawsuits going on in Texas against CCC Information Services and Companies who use them? If there are, could someone tell me who to contact?
Bill Nagy needs to understand that the general population aren\’t idiots. I know the value of my vehicle when I purchas it, I know the value is less six years later. Blue Book has a hand little section to type the mileage into so that\’s considered as well as places to include the extras. CCC are low level mobsters working for the adjustors who have whored themselves for a job. They\’ll put back a single mom with one vehicle in a corner demanding that she take at least 30% less than her vehicle is worth and guess what? She has to grab it just to hurry to get a cheap ride to work. No offense Bill, but your post is somewhat presumptious and condescending.
Carla, The millions paid out by this class action lawsuit is a slap on the wrist as compared to the huge savings generated by CCC as a third party administrator for insurance companies to determine actual cash value. I have done many appraisal clauses (for insureds) before the settlement and after and my opinion is little has changed. I e-mailed the law firm to ask who is the court appointed monitor with no response. You do not state whether you are an insured or not and if you are i recomend you reading your policy under the appraisal area, if your not best of luck.
I am going to court on 04/10/05 to fight this valuation with the insurance company using their services. Is there any adivce from anyone who has gone against this in court?
I work in the auto finance world. I deal with total losses daily. When I hear that a particular insurance company uses CCC reports, I cringe. They are bogus as far as I am concerned. There is a reason an insurance company uses them…to pay as least amount of maney as possible. I recently totalled my Nissan Altima. The came up with $6400 value, NADA shows $7700…I argued the value by supplying local replacement figures and NADA…and upped the settlement sligtly. I was not happy. Before buying Insurance, ask what valuation the company uses and research the car\’s value before any purchase.
Hi Carla,
Sign me up…where are the \”monitors\” they have watching over the CCC reports..they used local market values of cars 75 miles away from my address…It is a joke…there have been no changes in the 5 years Ive been working on claims…Pull up ads from local dealers, pull NADA, official software is better than website…Kelly Blue Book, and Fight away, remember who is the customer? You Are!
Now that I know CCC did my original estimate on my 2 totaled autos where is the loot? Not to mention I had a defecit that put me in a great bind to pay off. Oh yes I want to know where is the loot? Will someone respond with the answer? Thanks.
I recently was offered an offer for my toyota sequa that was way less than the market around me-( ccc said it was about 29,100 )they went as far as 200 miles away )
on the average my toyota thru autotrader.com was 32,689.00 ( 100 miles)
the closer to my home the more it was worth )Mercury insurance says i cant sue my own insurance company- all i can do is go to section 2 of my policy-
I am willing to join a class action lawsuit as i have all my paperwork in hand.
Roland, seems like your ins. Co. has drawn the line in the sand on the ACV of your Toyota. I am guessing they have pointed you to the appraisal clause. I suggest you read it and have it handy. My e-mail is autodamageconsult@att.net. Send me your contact # and i will contact you. I have done many appraisal clauses for consumers like you against CCC
I filed a claim with the class action lawsuit. I have not heard anything back. I did go to the website and see that there was a settlement. Does anyone know about how much we should expect to get back.Thanks.
I am in a 4+ month battle with Farmers Insurance regarding the value of my total-loss vehicle. Farmers is using CCC for the valuation.
CCC is systematically falsifying data in their comparable analysis to lower valuations. My car is an Acura Integra GSR, completely stock. I inquired about all of the alleged GSR comparables in CCC\’s report, and NONE of them were actually GSR models. They were all low-end RS/LS models falsely represented as GSRs. It wasn\’t just a few – a total of 10 alleged GSR vehicles were falsely represented! Additionally, CCC was only adjusting about $700 between a RS/LS model and a GSR. When questioned by the Washington State Insurance Commissioner, Farmers replied that according to CCC, the only differences between the RS/LS and the GSR is alloy wheels and a \”trim package.\” Well I\’m sorry, but a VTEC engine is not \”trim\” !! There are many performance differences in the GSR with a much greater difference in value compared to the low-end RS/LS.
CCC and all of the complicit insurance companies that buy their services should lose their business license in every state. It is an on-going nation-wide CRIME. Nearly a year after the lawsuit CCC is still committing FRAUD. Seems to me we need a followup lawsuit, where nobody settles, and CCC and the insurance buddies get their rear-ends nailed to the wall, ENRON-style.
On May 26, 2006 I had an auto accident which was not my fault.
The owner of the other vehicle had AIG Insurance who, of course, uses CCC for their claims.
Their first offer for my vehicle was $3575.11. I told them they were crazy and insisted on copies of all of the condition reports, valuation reports, and all of the other supporting paper trail upon which they had based their decision. They stalled and hemmed and hawed. I held my ground.
When I finally got the CCC Valuescope report it was comical. They based the value of my vehicle on 2, TWO! comparables which were not even the same as my vehicle. My truck was a 2000 Mazda SE (midline model). They based the value on an SX (base, strippy, strippy model.)
I held my own and told them that the number they were offering to me was totally unacceptable. I provided ten comparables to support my position.
A week later they raised their offer to $5335.02. Again I told them that their number was too low and that I had comparables to support it.
AIG sent me a second CCC Valuescope report which was still filled with errors. Again, 8 of their comparables were not even the same as my truck. They totally ignored the comparables that I had provided because, even after mileage and equipment adjustments, they averaged $7300.
I sat down and typed up a \”nice\” letter indicating to them that it was obvious that they were undervaluing my vehicle in an blatant attempt to cheat me. I gave them a deadline (three days out) to get right on their settlement offer or I would take the matter to court. I communicated all of this to the Policy Holder because under GA law I would have to sue her personally.
On the Tuesday morning of deadline day (per my attorney\’s instructions) I faxed to AIG as well as to the Policy Holder the completed Small Claims Court paperwork and all of my supporting documentation from the police report on.
At 5:30pm we settled on a number that suited me.
I held out until they got to $6820.
I guess the lesson I learned is to be tenacious and prepared.
Get your background paperwork.
Know your vehicle!! Probably most important.
Verify their paperwork. Make them share it with you.
As I explained to AIG, I worked a lot of long hard hours to pay for that truck anc I was not about to let them just take it from me without a fight.
If you had been in my shoes I think that you would have seen things a bit differently.
No, I am not guilty of insurance fraud. On the contrary, AIG and CCC were, in my humble opinion attempting to commit collusion at the least and fraud at the worst.
They, again in collusion with one another, attempted to get me to accept $3575.11 as a settlement for a vehicle which I easily documented as being worth over $7600.00. Remember I had verifiable comparable vehicles which supported this valuation position. They, on the other hand, had nothing to support their position because they were not using vehicles which matched. They were attempting to use vehicles which were only \”similar.\”
I eventually settled with them for only $6820.00 because of my unwillingness to continue to drag the matter on and on. It had already been 34 days and quite frankly I was sick and tired of it.
I could have easily sued their policy holder for just shy of $14 thousand dollars including rental bills and storage fees. If they had not settled with me by the deadline I had set then that is exactly what I would have done.
So, yes you are right when you say \”what goes around comes around\” but you can also apply \”caveat emptor\” (buyer/consumer beware) to the situation as well.
Anyone who has ever, or ever will, deal with an insurance company needs to understand that those dealings are adversarial by their very nature. The insurance companies are not on the side of the consumer. They are out for themselves and if you think that the old fashioned values of fair dealings and even handedness in business still exist in dealings with insurance companies then you are sadly mistaken.
Being in collusion with companies such as CCC simply stacks the deck that much further against the policy holder.
I sincerely hope that you are never in a similar situation and, if you are, then you will be able to negotiate a fair settlement without too much difficulty.
The best advice I can offer to you or anyone else is to be aware, be prepared, and be determined not to be taken advantage of.
As my Mom always told me, \”be sure to always stand up for yourself because you can bet that no one else will do it for you.\”
There is no perfect system that will satisfy everyone involved.
Insurance fraud is the #2 white collar crime in the US next to income tax invasion. Who has not tried to profit from insurance because of his loss? Remember that basic insurance principles state that the insured should neither benefit nor lose but be made whole again. No more no less.
The legal system is being trampled with bogus inflated claims whether they are property or injury. The only thing that is for sure is that the law firms are the beneficiaries.
CCC\’s system is definitely not perfect.
Does anyone know of a perfect system? Something that will award the insureds the most money you say? Well the insurance companies will not lose out and everyone will lose out in the end with policy premiums rising.
It\’s an us vs. them mentality when dealing with insurance claims. How will we ever find a solution when the parties are biased from the beginning?
My philosophy is that whatever I do good or bad, I will be rewarded accordingly.
The law of averages does not discriminate. Sooner or later it will catch up with everyone.
Aubrey,
Apparently May 26, 2006 was a bad day. I was also involved in an accident, which was not my fault.
Since my car is over 38 years old and difficult to find, my car was also (in my opinion) undervalued by CCC Valuescope. My car does run very well. The problem I have is my car does have over 300,000 miles on it and even though the body has no damage or rust, the vinyl top has “rotted” off and the paint is pretty messed up. The interior is also very worn out. Before the accident, I had several offers of over $6,000 for my car “as is”. Now CCC Valuescope (based on the information my insurance company gave them) has valued my car at $1,477. After telling my insurance company that I had just installed a new stereo, they adjusted the value to $1,932.
I have spent several hours on the Internet looking for any vehicle anywhere that is even close to what I was offered and found none.
If anyone has any suggestions as to what I can do to resolve this, it would be appreciated.
Now for the sympathy factor, this is my first car and I have owned it for almost 30 years. So it means a lot to me.
My advice is to complain to your state insurance commissioner, and get an appraisal. Many insurance policies have an \”appraisal option\” which requires both parties to hire their own appraiser, and then the two appraisers hash it out and any disagreements are settled by an umpire. This has a binding outcome, though, so you may want to either get your own appraisal or press your insurance company to appraise it before you invoke that clause. Good luck! Don\’t let CCC get away with fraud…. again.
CCC valuations are still bogus. Next time you have a claim, ask your adjuster which insurance company do they use? Ask them to run their cars value on the CCC their insurance company uses. It is simple we need to ask the Insurqance company before getting coverage what system do they use…in CT, they must, by CT Law average 2 different systems. This is at least more fair…For anyone in Massachusetts, Commerce uses N.A.D.A. exclusively. This to me seems the most fair as far as replacement value for your car. That is the definition of ACV…\”replacement value.\”
So see what your adjusters have to say if they where in your shoes…remember too, \”you are their customer…you pay the monthly premium.\”
Good Luck and let me know if any other class action lawsuits…my date of loss 3/14/06 and I would definately be in!
Are you an adjuster? Seems as if you don\’t get it…Every one living in THIS world wants to be treated fairly, and these insurance companies make promises to do just that…\”outstanding, fair claims service.\” What exactly do they mean by that? If you can prove your car has more value than a CCC report, through comparable vehicle sales in your area and comparable valuation systems…they should be able to work with their customer on total loss settlements. I have seen it done by many and applaud those adjusters that do work with their customer\’s. This is a huge issue, as I work with in this field every day.
Hope when your time comes you dont get screwed.
I posted a comment back in November. We finally went to court on June 23, 2006. In Colorado the defendant has to right to be represented in court by the insurance company\’s council. That is exactly what happened. This attorney was very tricky. I had obtained a professional independant appraisal of my 1991 ford explorer which had a new engine and transm/clutch, this appraisal came out to $2500. The insurance company offered me $1271 originally. The attorney called me to tell me that his witness would nto be able to be in court and they planned to bring in a sworn statement from him. This was his tricky move. When we went to court, knowing that the defendant would not have the witness that prepared the comparable inspection prepared for CCC, I did not have my witness that prepared my appraisal (this would cost me more), I had it notarized, but no one in court to argue anything else but my comparables and appraisal.
Needless to say, the defendant showed up with his witness, leaving me no witness to counter with. The judge felt that the defendant prepared better and gave them a judgement of only $200 more than they originally offered (however lower than an offer of $1700 they came up with 3 weeks before our court). It cost $2700 to repair my car to the condition before the accident, and she only gave me $1417.
During my preparation I wanted to tear this valuation report apart, but my husband thought that our appraisal was good enough. Don\’t ever think that. Afte the court I tried to contact some of the comparables that were listed. I actually got some of the people on the phone with the number listed, turns out only 2 our of 6 had actually listed 91 explorers for sale. The other 4, I contacted the paper to get a copy of the date they refered to in the valuation comparables. The other 4 were not even valid. I tried to contact the judge to see if this was grounds for an appeal, or if she could consider this information and maybe reconsider her decision. She never replied to me within my 60 days to appeal. So needless to say, I got screwed once again.
Moral to this story..Check all comparables, call the phone number listed to try to prove the validity of the comparable. And, if you do go to court be prepared for everything, Don\’t assume anything.
If anyone has information on how I can still go after this insurance company (ANPAC American National Pacific and Casualty). I wonder if I can now go after them with a claim of fraud, since they use and depended on the CCC valuations. I am in the state of Colorado, so I am not sure of what I can do at this point. I have tried to contact the Insurance commissioner about this and they sided with the insurance company based on the Courts decison. They say that the court had the evidence to decide upon, not them.
I am not an attorney so I can\’t speak about the court issues, but it sounds like consulting with an attorney would be a good idea if you want to pursue it further.
However, I would definitely recommend \”tearing the valuation apart,\” as you put it, in every case. In my recent case, I found that 10 vehicles in my CCC valuation were falsified. The CCC valuations have the appearance of being thorough and are daunting to go through, so too many people don\’t check it out.
I complained to my state insurance commissioner, who told Farmers\’ Insurance to fix it. Farmers came back with a new CCC valuation that was $100 greater. The Insurance Commissioner thought this was great and responded to me that it was fixed. However, I went through the new valuation, and found that the only thing CCC/Farmers did was shuffle the comparables around remove a few of the lower priced ones to result in a higher average and a new looking valuation report. However, nearly all 10 of the falsified vehicles from the previous report were still there. I had to litterally plead with the Insurance Commissioner to get them to see they had been duped and eventually they agreed with me and put the pressure back on Farmers. Eventually Farmers put the CCC valuations aside and just had an appraisal done, which increased the settlement offer by $2800, a 55% increase, which I accepted.
Farmers was cited for violations of state law because of the falsified CCC valuation reports. If everybody would scrutinize their CCC reports and complain to their state insurance commissioners, then maybe, just maybe, the insurance compainies would quit using CCC. But for now, they continue to find it all too easy to bamboozle their customers with the low-ball CCC reports based on falsified information.
Just received my CCC Valuation via Geico for a thrid party claim in GA.
2 of the 4 cars listed don\’t seem to exist – they were both linked to a car dealer in a small town near an Army base.
BUT – GA DMV didn\’t have the VINs – Nor did they have any record of a Dealer License for the company name.
Of course, the adjuster missed almost every option on my car. But she did catch minor wear and tear on almost every inch of the car.
You\’d think if she was looking that critically, she\’d notice things like heated seats, a nav system and giant alloy wheels.
So I\’m waiting for Geico to ask CCC to address these issues. According to 2nd tier adjuster, \”We don\’t come up with this data so I don\’t know what to tell you.\”
I told him that it became his data the moment he turned it over to me and made it the basis for my valuation.
We \”decided\” that there must be some problem with CCC and that he\’d look into it. At one point he actaully suggested that I look into it myself.
I pointed out that CCC wasn\’t my preferred vendor — and that I wasn\’t their customer. He finally dropped the idea.
He concluded our conversation by explaining that whatever number CCC cooked up for round 2 was it.
I needed to understand that we weren\’t negotiating – no. That the valuation wasn\’t an offer. No, the valuation was the law. Period.
And no one can just change laws can they? Not me – and certainly not Geico.
I almost asked him what the \”fill in the blank\” fields on the last page labeled \”settlement values\” were for — but I had heard my quota of lies for a Wednesday.
The funny part is that the offer wasn\’t too bad. If they hadn\’t left so much off of my car, I might have taken it. Who knows what 4 comps they\’ll dig up now?
Kris: You really need to file a complaint with your Department of Insurance and with your Attorney General\’s Consumer Protection Division. The fact that an insurance company is adopting the false valuations of an outside vendor certainly looks like fraud the DOI should know about. The fact that a vendor is selling false information to an insurer affecting your rights as a consumer is something your AG should know about.
Too often, the DOIs claim they have never had any complaints from consumers about this type of behavior — so make certain yours knows about CCC\’s listing of two \”comparable\” vehicles that don\’t exist from a dealer that doesn\’t exist.
I thought of forwarding the info the the State, too. It wouldn\’t do anything for my situation but it would be documented.
The more I research CCC and how INS companies use their valuations, there\’s one thing I\’ve noticed — but haven\’t seen abyone else pick up on.
Insurance carriers SWEAR there\’s no such thing as DV – yet CCC boasts of their ability to lower valuations because they have partnered with vendors like CARFAX.
My CCC valuation had hints of a previous claim and repair – but nothing concrete and no deductions were made.
The CCC selling point to insurance companies being — lower valuations based on real vehicle histories.
So INS Co will lower the value of repaired vehicles when valuating ACV for loss — but ignore the info when valuating a non-loss claim.
Pretty sure the language of the law makes it possible, but it\’s unfair to apply what amounts to a double standard.
And it\’s crazy to hear CEOs claim that there is NO SUCH THING as DV.
Which reminds me, I still have to finish my DV claim for the 2005 collision on my now totaled vehicle.
I need a paralegal to keep up with all this…
Any form letters or templates whould be appreciated….and if anyone wants a copy of my CCC valuation, let me know.
I am sorry to hear that you are having issues with CCC. It all sounds so very familiar to me.
Contrary to what you have been told, since you have a third party claim, the valuations they are offering to you are not \”the law\” if you can prove that you are being screwed.
I went through this same wringer back in June. (See my posts here.)
If you can prove that your vehicle was undervalued ie missing options etc then document, document, document.
CCC actually was trying to value my vehicle based on the basic strippy model rather than the mid range better equipped model that it actually was.
CCC included multiple vehicles which may have existed at the time the information was gathered but they certainly were nowhere to be found when I tried to verify them.
Get this. When I balked at their original valuation, they generated a new one which, if you can even imagine it, included my own vehicle as a comparable (at their ridiculously low value of course).
They also dinged me on condition even though the truck was immaculate.
I took the advise of my lawyer and went down to Magistrate Court and got the necessary forms for filing a suit. I completed the forms and then faxed them to both the insurance company as well as their policy holder. I told them that they had until 5pm the next day to get it resolved or the papers would be filed in the morning.
Needless to say we had a resolution by 5pm the next day. I had my check within 48 hours and only missed the figure I wanted by $120.00
I have held onto the entire CCC file and have not done anything with it as far as the Insurance Commissioner\’s Office is concerned.
If you want to coordinate with me perhaps we could both send our paperwork in to them at the same time. Sort of a nice Merry Christmas gift for CCC.
After submitting my \”questions\” to an office-dwelling adjuster at Geico – which included the original window sticker from my loss vehicle, I was told to wait for another valuation to be sent by certified mail.
It arrives Saturday and it\’s same song different verse. Basically all Geico did was add line item cash for some (not all) of the loss vehicle options not included in the first offer.
So, we\’re still not valuing the loss vehicle correctly (missing a few standard and optional items) and we\’re still not giving comps the proper adjustments for: Trim Level, Standard features and options.
The 2 dealer comps are a year newer but one is base and the other is mid tier. They\’ve added and subtracted thousands on these comps but you can\’t tell what the secret formula is.
I am able to indentify a couple of areas where I lost value for not having features that I either have or have something even better. (I admit, you\’d have to know Saabs to pick up on this.)
The problem is what to do now….
Geico put a nice little 7 day take it or bug off notice on the cover of the package. Of course the adjuster didn\’t sign the offer sheet and it arrived on a Saturday — so I\’m not sure which 7 days they gave me.
I do know that the adjuster is scheduled for vacation on Friday. That would explain how I got certified on Saturday.
I\’m guessing her boss told her to close everything before she started her vacation.
My feeling is to fwd the entire mess to the Ins Comm for review. I\’ve already been in touch with someone from their office via the web and was surprised to receive a thorough response within 24 hrs.
I suspect that this would:
1.Stop the 7 day clock – or at least slow it down
2.Take the matter out of this field adjusters hands
3.Not have a negative effect on my claim
It looks like I\’ll be contacting the at fault driver, as well. Gecko says they will only pay X$ for loss of use (rental car).
The nice folks at the GA Ins Comm office provided me with the GA statute that states they \”shall pay reasonable benefits for losses, including total losses, to a third party on behalf of an insured for loss of use and towing and storage costs of such a motor vehicle\”
I don\’t find their x$ rental cap reasonable compared to my loss vehicle — which I\’m still paying for — and I don\’t find it safe after the accident.
I figure the at fault driver can pick up the rest of the rental tab and then go after Gecko for bad faith (and about $300).
She seemed like a decent and reasonable person…I guess we\’ll find out.
I tried to buy a car (you know p to mitigate the losses) but I can\’t buy a car with the loss vehicle still out there on my records….and I can\’t get rid of the loss vehicle until Gecko makes an honest attempt to figure the ACV.
It\’s Monday, just after 7 in the morning, and I\’m already feeling like I\’ve gone 12 rounds.
On Dec. 30th 2006,an elderly lady turned left within 2 feet of her left side curb going 25 mph and continued down the middle of the street, plowing into my son, who had been approaching the intersection, but stopped about three car lengths short when he saw her coming. He honked at her but she never even touched her brakes!
We had her insurance company on the phone immediately and they provided a rental car that day.
Because our vehicle was a rare 62 chevy short fleetside with large rear window and the three-year frame-off resto was only six months old, I believed that her insurance would want to buy (total) the truck for $800 and take it. I\’d spent over $9k in parts and had probably 1000 hrs in labor, so I was quite stressed.
The next day,(Saturday) an appraiser arrived to verify the resto, and was quite sympathetic, being a car restorer himself. He said that his part of the process would favor our plight, but explained that his was not a decision making role.
By Tuesday morning, the adjuster had a package from me explaining the entire restoration process and containing three ads for comparable trucks from traderonline.com
I also allowed the options of: 1) repair to my specifications including placement on new chassis 2)Outright purchase (total loss) at between $15k and $25K or 3) replacement with a comparably restored and equipped truck of the exact same model.
After many sleepless night and almost 60 days of waiting, we were offerred 15K and were allowed to buy our truck back for 1K. The only downside is that this truck will be \”salvage title\” forever.
What I was told by a friend that does insurance appraisal on boats is this:
CCC Valuescope is simply a database tool that offers the appraiser the documentation necessary to support the valuation that he has himself determined.
If the appraiser is a hardballer or his employing insurance company is,then guess how the valuescope appraisal is going to come out?!
When I discovered that Triple-A insurance used Valuescope, I cut off verbal communications with the adjuster and wrote and told him that I was aware of Valuescope\’s methods and told him I would consider any valuation that came in less than my numbers to be counterfeit and that I\’d insist on getting as much info as I needed to disprove a counterfeit valuation.
It turns out that the proper combination of my firmness of conviction, and a sympathetic appraiser got me close enough to the right number. While our truck is actually more valuable, we were more interested in settling quickly and easily on an offer that was mostly reasonable. I\’d say that we came out okay and that we were compensated (more or less) fairly.
I am in the midst of a total loss claim right now, and all I want is the Kelly Blue Book – Private Party Sale – Good Condition value for our 1997 Pontiac Firebird Convertible, (my wife\’s car, which she meticulously maintained). Even though the other party has been ruled entirely at fault, my own insurance company does not agree KBB states a fair value. They offered the CCC Valuation which compared exactly two cars locally, which were only similar, while I (within a matter of a few hours) located and documented 6 cars presently for sale that are nearly identical and at far higher prices. When I asked them if they wanted the dealer information for those vehicles, they refused to accept the information. The amount they offered is about half the price it would cost me to buy any one of those vehicles, yet they still maintain their valuation is accurate. This has just started, and I am one very stubborn individual. Some might say I would cut off my nose to spite my face, and if that means I will suffer a loss to take this through litigation, then I have to say their assessment is dead on target. If my insurance company does not realize this fact about me in time, we will indeed be meeting in court, and I will be very prepared with my own private counsel representing my interests. It is my belief that problems such as these remain prevalent simply because too many people feel it is not worth the effort. I am not one of them.
I called today to dispute many assertions made in the CCC Valuation. I had everything organized and planned to go through each area of dispute page by page, especially the adjuster\’s claim as to the condition of our vehicle. For example, the outragious claim that the exterior had \”significant\” rust, when we live in a semi-arid desert environment. Unbelievable! After I started to dispute these areas, the total loss agent stated that they had agreed to change the settlement to match my original reasonable request. I was stunned. After a pregnant pause, I stated that I was satisfied then. I asked them to FAX me the new settlement offer, and I am in the process of packaging the forms along with the title to send to them by DHL. Did they have a change of heart? Well, last night I did send them a link to this page via email. In any case, I am relieved. If someone believes their response was notable and is curious as to the insurance company\’s name, it is Farmer\’s Insurance. I am now reconsidering my previous thoughts about changing insurance companies after the issue is resolved. I still might, but at least they didn\’t drag this out too long. One thing I would recommend to anyone who faces a similar situation is to check out your state\’s Insurance Commissioner\’s web site. It is from their that I learned California Law requires Insurance companies to reopen claims for adjustment after 35 days if a comparable vehicle can not be found for the settlement offer. It also requires them to include state taxes and license fees based on the settlement amount, and I did also send quoted text from that paragraph of the law. Perhaps they thought it would be easier to recover my original reasonable requested amount from the other party\’s insurance, and then they would not have to face potential higher settlement costs later, which would be more difficult to recover. Again, thanks for all the exceptional advice. It the settlement takes an unexpected twist, I will post my further experiences.
Gather all your comps AND MAKE SURE you get a complete copy of the CCC validation.
You should be able to poke a few holes in the options included/options not included area.
If the CCC comps are not the same year/trim — you\’ve got some leverage.
Don\’t waste your time with vehicles outside your local area – no help at all.
If you happen to have the window sticker from your vehicle, send a copy to back up your vehicle.
CCC doesn\’t know the intricate trim levels and packages of every make and model….they\’ll say you have basic wheels when you might have a sport package that includes upgraded wheels. You need to prove all of this with documentation.
Now do the same for the CCC comps. What are they lacking — are they serviced – wrecked – under warranty? There\’s always a few items/options that are wrong.
If you can show that the CCC valuation is not 100% accurate – you can easily say it\’s fraudulant.
Insurance companies hate fraud….so does your State Ins Comm. In fact it\’s a MAJOR crime. So find the fraud and back it up with facts.
And do yourself a favor and let the Blue Book (and other widely known valuation guides) go. In the last few years they\’ve become nothing more than a consumer marketing channel. Kelly\’s core customer used to be Dealers and Wholesalers – now it\’s individual consumers in the market for a car.
Once you get your complete CCC valuation, let us know.
And I almost forgot – you may be able to deduct the loss on your taxes. It\’s a little tricky but if you weren\’t paid the ACV that you should have been (that you can document) than it\’s a casualty loss. (Yes, this would the one time I recommend consulting and printing out your KBB valuation)
Remember this: NO MATTER WHAT YOUR INSURANCE AGENT TELLS YOU; NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU\’VE KNOWN YOUR INSURANCE AGENT; NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU\’VE DONE BUSINESS WITH YOUR INSURANCE AGENT OR YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY; YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY ADVERSARIES WITH YOUR OWN INSURANCE AGENT AND YOUR OWN INSURANCE COMPANY WHEN YOU BECOME A CLAIMANT–PERIOD.
In essence it\’s racketeering between companies like CCC and their client insurance companies–and our federal government. Hell, if you or I tried to INFLATE our property damage claims to the extent CCC and their client companies (i.e. our own insurance companies) try to DEFLATE our property damage claims, I can almost assure you, you and I would be accused of insurance fraud by our insurance companies. You and I would also have to hire an attorney and we would without a doubt be facing possible jail time.
Sad to say, for insurance companies this is simply the way they do business: screw the claimant–even if you are a long-time pay on time client.
If you intend to obtain a fair and reasonable settlement close to current market value for your vehicle–start typing now. Pick the valuation from CCC a part point-by-point. Send all correspondence certified mail and return receipt. Remember: Not written, not said.
My property damage settlement offer went from just under $3000 to just over $6000. I did exchange almost half-a-dozen certified, return receipt letters with the insurance company prior to settling the property damage claim–but I think it was worth it. I could go on, but better yet I suggest you at the least purchase two books:
Auto Accident Personal Injury Insurance Claim: (How to Evaluate and Settle Your Loss) by Dan Baldyga
Steven, it seems your own ins. co. has drawn the line in the sand regarding their opinion of your loss vehicle. I highly encourage you to read your ins. policy under the appraisal area. An appraiser will probably run you 200-250 & sounds like it would be money well spent.You may call me direct @ 505 681-8540.
And if you have the ability to bring the wreck home — do it.
If it\’s at some yard the charges add up fast and the adjuster will pressure you to let them tow the vehicle to a yard of thier choice.
Problem is, you\’ll never be able to see or examine the vehicle again. And if you\’re third party, the vehicle is still your legal responsibilty – not some insurance company\’s that you have no relationship with.
Put in your driveway and collect the $20 a day yourself until you\’re satisfied with the settlement.
And once you\’ve reached a settlement, try to supress your desire to remove some small interior and trim keepsakes that might do well on ebay.
Not the most ethical advice you\’ll get, but you probably knew that.
It\’s nice to hear a claimant had a “fairly good\” experience with their insurance company.
Now, Steve, I don\’t mean to rain on your parade, but in addition to the agreed upon price for the vehicle–BE SURE–that you and your agent/adjuster have specifically discussed and agreed upon your being compensated for the following items in the Property Damage Claim settlement and he confirms it IN WRITING:
1. Sales tax on the vehicle (e.g., state, local, etc.):
This is IN ADDITION to the agreed upon price of the vehicle–don\’t let him tell you it was included–unless you and he have specifically discussed it and agreed upon it. (You might do a little research, because I don\’t know if California laws are like Texas laws.)
2. Daily Loss of Use:
Even if you didn\’t have a rental vehicle–you are owed Loss of Use per day! The only question is how much a rental a vehicle in your area goes for that is of the like, kind and quality of your totaled car. In other words, don\’t let the agent/adjuster try and pay you $30 per day for a subcompact car for Loss of Use if your totaled vehicle is an SUV! Find out what they rent for in your area and shoot for that.
Don’t fall for any bogus claim from your agent/adjuster that they can only pay you for a maximum of seven days (or whatever the claim may be) for Loss of Use when it took their appraiser two or three weeks to get to your car and another week or two to get the appraisal from the appraiser. If this is the case—IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT THEY DON’T HIRE ENOUGH APPRAISERS TO GET TO THEIR CUSTOMERS WITH A FEW DAYS.
Charge them for every day since the car was totaled until you settle the Property Damage Claim. Again, you can negotiate the price up or down at YOUR discretion.
3. Stowage:
As the lady said in the other posting, you are owed reasonable storage fees, too. If the vehicle is stored on your property, shoot for whatever auto shops in your area charge for storage–negotiate up or down as you see fit. If you paid ANY storage fees to a storage facility (impound, body shop, etc.), YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY SHOULD REIMBURSE YOU EVERY PENNY—you should not to be out any storage fees if your vehicle has been stored at an auto repair shop. Just be sure you have or can get a valid receipt from the storage facility or be able to prove the day the car was dropped by the tow truck on your property. That brings up another item.
4. DON’T FORGET TO INCLUDE ANY TOWING FEES.
5. The PROPERTY DAMAGE SETTLEMENT:
Last—but not least—assuming the above items are settled to your satisfaction, when you get the Property Damage Claim check—ENSURE IT STATES IT IS ONLY FOR THE PROPERTY DAMAGE CLAIM. This is very important if you have any injuries, medical treatment, ambulance bills, doctor visits, physical therapy bills, lost time at work, etc. These items should be included in the next round of negotiations once you’re done with any medical treatment and your back to work.
Usually, at least in Texas, the attorneys don’t want to haggle with these agents/adjusters over the value of a vehicle. Most attorneys won’t do it because it isn’t lucrative enough for them. The attorneys feed you to the sharks on Property Damage claims—they just want the personal injury portion of your claim where the REAL money for them is.
In California, the law requires inclusion of sales tax and license fees, and I confirmed the inclusion of the same in the written settlement offer. Regarding rental car costs, since I do not include that as part of my own insurance, I will have to get that from the other party\’s insurance; however, my insurance company is required by law to subrogate the deductable portion, and they gave me a Fax number to send a copy of the rental car receipt, stating they would pass that on to the Subrogation Department. They were the Total Loss Department. Once the Total Loss department closes their part of this case, and I receive that check, I have to contact the Subrogation Department. At that time, I will either find out that they are seeking all the costs, and not simply the deductable, or I will get the other party\’s Insurance Contact Number and have to seek the Rental Car costs directly. The reason I am not sure is because I have been through this before where another party was at fault, and that time, I had to seek anything not covered on my policy myself. If this time they handle it all, I will be happy, but if not, I can go through it with the other company, as I have done that before with no difficulty. Also, my wife and I do not needlessly add costs just because we can. We went ahead and bought her a 2006 Nissan Maxima (NICE car), and after that we no longer needed a rental. So we returned it (2007 Pontiac G6, also a NICE car). They will have no basis at all for denying the less than $300 total rental costs, but if they do, I am prepared to go to battle again. Surprisingly, our insurance company towed the car without charging us, and we were told that we have salvage rights, but be declined. The car is now in a salvage yard. Though we were not planning to replace the car for another two years, we are satisfied to have received more than \”Trade-In\” value in the purchase of the 2006 Maxima. It also put us in a better bargaining position, as I didn\’t have to haggle both on the price of the car and the trade-in credit. And I am a deal or no deal type car buyer. I told him exactly what I was willing to pay, and told him if he came back with a counter offer, we would walk right out without another word being said. Our offer of $20,000 was accepted. We are nearly whole right now; the rest should be simply jumping through the appropriate hoops.
Thank you for you response. I’ve been looking at the Missouri Insurance site you noted and have yet to find anything specific to what insurance companies should include in their settlement payments.
I have been trying to find any regulations or statutes in my state showing what should be included in a total loss settlement. I can not find anything that states those requirements. Can someone lead me in the right direction for Missouri?
My Insurance company is saying they are not required to pay taxes etc on the settlement amount. I am just wanting to make sure.
Thank you,
NT
It is typical for the insurance company to pay you *all* costs to replace the vehicle, minus any deductible. Therefore, they should pay you replacement value of the vehicle plus sales tax on that replacement value, because that is what it will cost you to go buy that replacement car.
You should be able to learn about the applicable laws in your state by contacting the Missouri Department of Insurance (http://insurance.mo.gov/). That’s also a good place to leave complaints if your insurance company is jerking you around. Typically state insurance departments will advocate on your behalf if an insurance company is misbehaving.
I saw another novel approach for getting the attention of a corporate behemoth that is ignoring your concern or bullying you at the customer service level…..
If the company is publicly traded, buy a small amount of stock in that company, and then start communicating with the “investor relations” department about your problem or concern.If that department tries to blow you off, express an interest in exercising your right to publicly speak at the next stockholders meeting about how the company is involved in using fraudulent third-party appraisals. This has been said to work wonders, although I’ve never had to resort to this because when I’m right, and have done my homework, the opposition usually folds!
I have a 05 Corrola S with 54 miles, my insurance used CCC reporting system to offer me $12,500 for the settlement. I have no way to buy a similar car based on their offer, my insurance said my option is to find a appraisor at my own cost, they will also hire their appraisor, then they will use the agreement betweent two appraisors to settle the claim. They agreed to cover my costs for the tires I purchased last year.
Do I really need to go through Appraisor, or there’s other options I could get the cash value from different resource?
Based on my experience and what you are saying about the car’s value, there are probably falsifications or errors in the CCC report (incorrect model types, undisclosed damage to comparison vehicles, non-existant ghost vehicles, etc.). If you have the time and the grit, you can call the telephone number provided for each comparable and find out the real story about their comps, then tell your insurance company their comps are no good and that you expect a new valuation with new and correct comps. I did this, but I just got the run-around from Farmers Insurance, and it wasn’t until I got the state Insurance Commissioner involved that I got some action. Until then, Farmers said my only option was the dual-appraisal thing. You might be okay doing that, but I believe it is binding, meaning you have to take what ever value they come up with. I wasn’t willing to take that risk with a company that I already discovered was misleading me with false comps, so I worked with the Insurance Commissioner to demand that they provide accurate comps. (But first I had to prove to the Insurance Commissioner that Farmer’s data was inaccurate.) In the end, Farmers opted to pay for a third party, non-binding appraisal, rather than trying to get accurate information from the CCC hoaxsters. I was happy with the appraised value (a 50% increase over the CCC false valuation) and decided to accept their offer – even though I still had the option to reject it. In the end, though, it took almost 4 months to get my money. If you can’t wait that long, the dual-appraisal is probably a good compromise between time and risk, but who knows what jokers your insurance company will hire for their appriasal…. Good luck!
It is sad to say, but time is on the insurance company’s side. If what you say is true, Farmers clearly doesn’t give a damn about you, your family or about trying to reach a mutually agreed upon fair and reasonable settlement with you, and they clearly do not give a damn that their offer to you is based on an apparent fraudulent valuation from CCC.
If what you say is true, Farmers and their ilk are only concerned with two things:
1. COLLECTING – they want your monthly or yearly premiums.
2. RETAINING – the want to ensure they keep your monthly or yearly premiums–even if by clearly fraudulent business practices.
Okay, three things:
3. BONUSES – The upper echelon want to ensure they receive not only their salary, but their hefty bonuses each quarter.
Insurance companies will wait “you out” until you agree to their fraudulent offer based on the usually fraudulent valuations from CCC, or, if you can afford to hire your own appraiser as they offered you can fight them–but it is crap shoot.
If what you say is true, what goes on (i.e., Farmers blatantly and openly using CCC’s falsified valuations to base their offers on)between CCC and insurance companies like Farmers is, in fact, RACKETEERING by definition. If you or I attempted to inflate our claims(opposite of CCC and the companies like Farmers and their ilk trying to deflate our claims by fraudulent means and methods)by including higher variant makes or models in our demand letters, I assure you, Farmers would pursue you and I for insurance fraud in a heart beat and spare not expense doing it.
If you choose to continue the battle on your own as I did, I recommended two books in one of my earlier postings. Buy them or check them out at the library. Also, be willing to file a detailed written complaint to your state’s department of insurance. It’s like a slap on the wrist to the insurers, but after so many complaints, they could be investigated by the state.
Ultimately, I recommend you and every other customer who has been swindled by an insurance company as I have been–find out who the insurance company’s CEO is and, if in the future you find that he or she has passed away, find out where they are buried, take a nice long drive out to the cemetery where they are interred and, after having several cold ones, christen their grave when you feel the need.
Oh, you might want to make sure no one is around, and you might want to bring someone else along to drive you back home. I bet their widow’s and families will never be able to figure out why grass won’t grow on their graves.
Now that I’ve known for a couple years that CCC did the estimate I am very pleased to hear that it is finally coming to an end. Have waited for some time now. I hoped it doesn’t take as long with the finalization.
How about this website, insurancejournal.com, create a bulletin board specifically for businesses and consumers like all of us who have had the screws put to us by insurance companies who use CCC Information Services, Inc. fraudulent valuations to base their insurance settlement offers? And, better yet, how about you, insurancejournal.com, put a link to this new bulletin board on your website’s front page?
Maybe give it an interesting title like “CCC Information Services, Inc. Fraudulent Appraisals Help Insurance Companies Screw Another Customer”.
I’m actually working on a detailed complaint to the Texas Attorney General’s office detailing my experience with a particular insurance and the three blatantly fraudulent valuations CCC Information Services, Inc. provided them, and when I complete my complaint for the Texas OAG, I’m considering sending a copy of the complaint to 20/20, Dateline and 60 Minutes.
Although I settled my case, both property damage and personal injury without an attorney and for much more than the insurance company initially offered, I had to spend too much of my time literally picking their valuation apart page by page, paragraph by paragraph, sentence by sentence and word by word.
If anyone from CCC Information Services, Inc. would like to dispute THE FACTS I’ve listed on my postings–FEEL FREE.
In fact, I am tempted to post all of my voluminous documents on a website. Heck, I don’t know that much about setting up a website, but I have acquaintances that do.
If I do set up such a website, between my certified letters to the adjuster, the adjuster’s letters and the fraudulent CCC Information Services, Inc. valuations, it would consist of several hundred pages.
Come on, insurancejournal.com, how about it? Remember, although most of these postings are from little ‘ol individual consumers like me, I’m sure many, many businesses have been screwed on their insurance claim settlements by their own insurance companies who use CCC Information Services, Inc. fraudulent valuations.
PLEASE, insurancejournal.com? After all, it’s not like the “victorious” class action lawsuits against CCC Information Services and a few of their clients (i.e., the insurance companies) have changed the fraudulent way they do business—just read our postings.
I found out that I could get a check for the disputed amount before the appraisals. But the check amount is the net between CCC value and the salvage value($4K). Is there any risk to take the check before appraisal?
Hmmm . . . maybe we all ought to petition our state politicians to pass similar laws.
I know in my case after almost two years of wrangling with the insurance company without the aid of an attorney, under this law I would have received over $30,000.
After all, the money the insurance companies save doesn’t go to the customers (e.g., reduced premiums and discounts), it just goes into the executive’s and shareholder’s pockets.
i too have beeen ripped off by farmers and ccc. there has been two class action law suits, one in nevada, and one in california. Maybe there needs to be another class action law suit?
I’ve found several falsifications on the CCC evaluation and Comps. The most funny (or sad depending on how you see it) was they claimed the transmission fluid was “Badly discolored”, the only problem with that was my truck has a manual transmission. I called all of the comps and found one had been wrecked and was sold in that condition, one was in a flood, and the other had nearly 295,109 miles, not the 148,000 that CCC reported (notice the nice round number, these guys aren’t too smart). I just filed a formal complaint with the Texas Department of Insurance. I’m willing to join any Class Action Suit, Sign me up!!!
I agree with Matt Turner. CCC’s incompetence borders on criminal malfeasance. For me, CCC has provided a valuation report full of plain sight errors just on comparison options alone. I have not begun to call on their comparison vehicles for price, condition, mileage, etc., but I will. Count me in, Matt.
If you want to band together to share ideas on helping each other get fair valuations or to discuss class action suits, please contact me at rjensen@sharemyride.com
Their evaluation reports are just a JOKE! A third grader would come up with a better organized document. We could not find over 1/2 of the vehicles compared with our vehicle. The report included barely 1/2 of extra options our vehicle had. The adjustments did not make any sense. They compared our vehicle mostly with the cheapest vehicles out there and artificially adjusted our cash value for a different model which ended up being still lower than if they would have compared our car with the another one of the same trim. They purposely picked lower models and at the same time ignored vehicles in the market with prices that were favorable to us. What kind of criminals are they? How this can even be real? What was Ameriprise thinking when they hired these guys, What a bunch of CRIMINALS!!!!
My job at our firm is to help our clients get the fair (ACV) value for their vehicles (which is outlined in the Washington State Insurance Commisioners Total Loss Factsheet!). I typically work with the adverse carrier and not our client’s own insurance carrier as they do not always carry collision coverage. When trying to settle a total loss claim with the 3rd party carrier there are even fewer options for our client’s (the inocent victims of soemone else’s negligence). Farmers is by far the worst! I have several comps for one of our client’s vehicles and contacted the dealers where CCC came up with ‘their’ comps and was told by the dealers that those vehicles were sold for a much higher price than what was used in CCC’s evaluation. The TL adjuster for Farmers just ignored this fact in our letters and said “take our offer or leave it!” Farmers even double dinged this specific client for mileage on his comparison. Their CCC evaluation deducted for higher mileage and then the adjuster took his averages for the comps and deducted mileage again. I am going to contact the local news and hopefully it is an interesting enough story that it will be picked up!!! Let’s keep talking about it and hope some action is taken! We are now taking some of our cases to small claims court and hope a judge has more sense than these crooks!!!
The maximum allowed in small claims court in WA is $4k.
I research KBB, NADA, Craigslist and Autotrader, I then average the vehicles that I have found availbale in the client’s principally gargaged area… (There are specific guidlines for this in Wa State through the Insurance Commisioner, however his focus is specifically on the 1st party carrier so we are writing our own manual as we go in regards to teeh 3rd party carriers.)
We are having a firm meeting to discuss our next course of action on the two files I am fighting now (w/ the questionable CCC evaluations.) I will keep you all posted on what we are planning… we may look at our own Class Action in WA state!
I work with total loss claims daily on behalf of the lien holder and could tell you horror story after horror story. On average CCC pays $1,000.00 less than N.A.D.A. the offical used car guide. This I believe, with comparable local market vehciles should be the valuation for any total loss claim. If your adjuster does not let you negotiate your figure, then consider an appraisal abritration which is your right.
I had a personal claim and my adjuster did negotiate with me on the settlement. I was not happy with it 100% but they tried. The answer is to change insurance carriers. We pay millions of dollars to these companies, and when it comes time to settle a claim, it seems they are not on the customer’s side. I left my old carrier, of 20 years, and switched to a company that uses N.A.D.A.
So ask your insurance agent before commiting to a carrier, “what system does the compay use to determine A.C.V.?”
Next class action lawsuit…count me in!
I am an attorney in Washingotn State. I have filed a federal class action suit against CCC and some of the insurers. I like to hear from you about your concerns.
I just did an appraisal arbitration….the ins. company , wont mention, was going to give the customer $8400 ish for a car worth $11,500….I had an appraisal arbitration (all customers can do this) – and they offered $11,300 when all was said and done…guess how much my appraisal cost? $70 bucks, and we got $2500 more then their first offer…oh I could tell you stories….
COMMERCE INSURANCE USES NADA…
PROGRESSIVE IN SOME STATES USE NADA NOW
…I AM TRYING TO NOTE WHO USES WHAT….I GET SO BUSY AND AM WORKING ON THIS….I FINALLY DUMPED METLIFE (CCC) AND AM WITH COMMERCE….ASK YOUR AGENT, BEFORE SIGNING UP….WILLLET YOU ALL KNOW, AS I COMPILE THE LIST….
As you are an attorney, I’m not sure how much more you need to know, but you can read my postings about my own experience, but I think you can see that the insurance companies have repeatedly conspired with CCC to defraud each and every one of us.
Racketeering.
Insurance fraud.
Falsifying documents.
You name it, these insurance companies with the help of CCC has done it to each one of us again and again. And, sadly, each of us know if we attempt to inflate our claims just as these insurance companies and CCC attempt to deflate the claims, we would most likely have to retain and attorney and face jail time and who knows what kind of fines.
What kind of information are you looking for? My accident happened a while back, and took me almost two years to resolve. I had been keeping all of my documentation including letters, emails and notes of phone calls, and since I settled my suit some time ago, I have been contemplating shredding these documents.
As I said, I’ve already settled my suit here in Texas, and I know if I could be included in your class action suit–but I’d sure as hell like to be!
Again, let us know what kind of information you are looking for.
I would also like to see if I can become part of this suit as I am currently fighting against the usage of the CCC report. It is not the report that is at fault, as it was created as a basic guideline only…it is the representatives who use it that are abusing it…I will not settle for the price they are offering me and they are telling me that they are refusing to negotiate in good faith. This behavior is what gives companies a bad name. I personally have an insurance agent that I highly respect and trust, and if it were not for him, I too would have lost faith.
Brian,
I have just gotten off the phone with Dairyland Ins. and they are using the CCC report to value my ’94 Ford Ranger 4X4. I have done my homework looking at adds in the paper, Autotrader.com, Cars.com, NADA, Kelly Blue Book, etc. They are undervaluing my truck by about 30% and even though my truck is not worth alot, my wife was rear ended and did nothing wrong. I SHOULD be fairly compensated for our loss.
Please include me in any action you take and I would be happy to supply you with any documentation you wish to support my claim.
I am filing a complaint with the Missouri Dept. of Insurance today. When I told with the agent handling my claim that their offer was not acceptable and that I was going to file the complaint, her response was, “That’s OK, we’re used to it.” I think that pretty well sums up the attitude in the industry!
I have recently resolved an arbitration hearing that took me approxiamately sixteen months following my initial claim. Nevertheless, I won the case but not the full retail value of my vehicle. The issue that came up throughout the hearing was the findings from ccc valuescope. The adjuster as a witness for the defense in this case stated emphaticlly that his assessment came from the methods of ccc valuescope. Many double standards, contradictions, fabrications, alteration, etc. occurred at this hearing. Let me say that I represented myself or should I say my case and this procedure is and was time consuming. Most people do not have the resource, nor legal education to pursue a claim and ultimately have to settle for less. I also stated these facts in my presentation. Furthermore, these predator insurance companies take the monies from the consumer and pay these law firms to defend the fradulent documents coming to us after filing a claim. I would like to be apart of a Class Action law suit against ccc valuescope and also other insurance companies that participate in these illegal activities. At this moment I would love to reject the offer awarded to me; however, my resources are depleted and unfortunately I have to accept the offer but I will continue to encourage and assist other people if I can. People who deal with these crooked companies. So if there is a lawyer out there filing a claim against ccc valuescope or some of these other companies I might have some vital information in this matter. I also have a Illinois case number.
Mr. Brian Sheldon would you contact me concerning a possible lawsuit against ccc valuescope and the insurance company as well. I recently won a judgement in arbitration against the Insurance company but I did the get the retail value. Illinois department of financial and professional regulations here in Illinois deal with retail value instead of actual cash value. I also have thirty days to reject the offer—we are talking maybe three weeks now–contact me if and when you can. garres372@aol.com
I am still in the arbitation stagewith my insurance company, however I have filed a complaint with the Missouri Dept of Insurance against Dairyland Ins. for using a flawed CCC valuation. The insurance company upped their offer within 2 weeks. We have not setteled yet, but we are getting closer. I also would like to offer whatever knowledge I have received from this experience to help anyone else. willie2507@hotmail.com
Someone please direct me to the source entailing a Class action law suit against ccc value scope and other insurance companies in the state of Illinois. I recently won an arbitration hearing however, I was not awarded the actual cash value of this vehicle. Let me point out to other consumers that these Insurance companies will virtrully wear you down—I mean we as consumers have responsibilities such as bills, tuitions, graduations, funerals, etc to name a few and these Insurance companies take advantage of the disadvantage—This illegal activity needs to come out and we have to somehow bring it to the media attention so other people will know—My question is “why hasn’t something been said or done by the attorney general’s office?” You mean to tell me that the rackets got that kind of power? I think not—We have to pursue —
Hello Dawn:
I’ve had a total loss as the result of an impaired driver. His company, Farmers, has accepted liability and I’ve received a valuation done by CCC.
It follows the pattern of selective comparables and there are some figures in the report that are not explained.
How can I get information to assist me in decoding the report?
Also, has any further discussion or action occured in relation to a class-action in Washington (where I reside)?
Can you give me any other information that would provide me with leverage?
Does the prospect of my retaining counsel give me any leverage with them or does it not matter as they have a large stable of attorneys?
Thanks very much,
Sue Ellen
I would also like this info—I am furious having just recieved the insurance paperwork over the total loss of my truck–their value is $2000.00 less than kelley blue book value and over $3000 less than what I paid for it just over a year ago. I’m thinking about hiring a lawyer but someone’s comment on here said they spent 16 months in arbitration—who has the time or money for that–this is BS–To be included in any classaction lawsuit do you have to be in the same area?? I’m from oregon–oh and they used market value for vehicles 300 miles from my home–
See http://www.totallosssettlement.com/. This is the link to the settlement website for the class action in which CCC paid out over $8M. This is pennies on the dollar against the value of CCC’s illegal business practices. Also, see Steve Ryan’s article “Salvaging the Total Loss Claim”, (http://www.stephencryanpc.com/CM/Custom/TOCArticles.asp) This article details CCC’s valuation methodology.
Thanks Ross—If it comes to it I certainly will– http://www.scottysbodyshop.com/TotalLoss.htm–gave me some ideas on some steps to take. I’m assuming that I can come back with a counteroffer?? I’ve never dealt with this before so I don’t really know how it works so I really appreciate all the info I am finding on here. I also found an article written by a lawyer that talked about the deceptive practices CCC uses-I thought it was a good article, gives you an idea of what your dealing with-it was written back in 1999 but it dosn’t seem like anything has changed-http://www.stephencryanpc.com/CM/Custom/TOCArticles.asp
–I really cannot belive that this is legal or that I have to invest so much of my time for something I’ve been paying into for years!!!!
Could you also tell me if I would have to hire an actual arbitrator or can I hire an appraiser who deals w/ this sort of thing???
ripoffreport.com actually does all this for you–and the stories can end up on 60 min or similar–funny thing is when I looked up CCC to see if any reports came up there wasn’t any, there was a couple against diff. insurance co. mentioning the CCC reports but it seems to me that while the insurance co. are definitely ripping us off-its the use of the CCC that needs to be stopped–
Melissa I can feel your frustrations. If you do not have the money and time to wrestle with these predators its basically a waste of time unless you do your own research. Melissa understand that ccc value scope, insurance companies, and lawyers for these companies have access to these sites as well. I say that to say this —these people look for comments such as yours and mines to deter you from whatever your intentions may be. Most of the time mentioning money like money is falling out the sky. I think most of us do not have extra money to shell out for expenses we should not have. Not only that —we are not guaranteed anything and believe me if you dont do your home work these lawyers will eat you alive with lies and words you can’t find in a dictionary. Melissa do your own research and stick with the truth and the facts and whatever you don’t understand trust me there is a neutral site that can give you the answer. Just type it in the search web. Finally, check the state statistics of the insurance company you are dealing with. I will continue to be in contact with you Ok. Good Luck
Thanks so much Stafford–
Homework is all I’m doing right now–I did check w/ my states dept of insurance and was surprised to see that my insurance co. has only one complaint in the last year–but until yesterday I didn’t even know there was a dept. of insurance –so I’m sure I’m not alone there–
Thanks again
Consumers you must understand before pursuing these companies that you are now a threat to the illegal activities going on amongst these agents as well as the Insurance Companies. That is if you write about the wrong you have endured. I have recently cancelled another acount with another Insurance company introduced to me by Marvell Towers. I called this companies (policy services) July 2, 2008 to discuss the possible renewal of my policy I had several questions to ask pertaining to this policy; however, no one answered the phone until late that afternoon–I was assured someone would call me back before the days end and no one returned a call—mind you this was customer service –think if it was claims. I called back July 7, 2008 early that Monday morning requesting a refund considering my policie expires July 20, 2008. Today is July 22, 2008 and I called a minute ago and was told that a request has to be sent to accounts. My question is why wasnt this done three weeks ago. I was a good client –no accidents, and I paid my premiums on time but now I wonder what would happen if there was an accident —people pay attention to these insurance companies like United Equitable. Im telling you to beware. By the way the lady hung up the phone on me when I told her the call was being recorded.
To Everyone: I am an attorney and I just dealt with an insurance company that uses CCC Valuescope. They offered me $3,300 on a car easily worth close to $5,000. I told them ‘No Thanks” and that instead, I would sue them in small claims court. They countered in less than 10 minutes with $4,200. Here’s why: if you take them to court, they have to 1) get their attorney to appear (corporations can only appear via attorney); and 2) they would have to bring in someone from CCC to testify about the valuation – they can’t offer a report into evidence unles it is via a human being who is an expert and who prepared the report. That will cost them at least another $1,000, so my advice is to tell them you will see them in SC court unless they up the offer; it usually works.
Did the CCC report use newer model year vehicles for the comparions? And if so, did the report deduct from the loss vehicle’s cash value for being an earlier year?
In California, such a deduction for a newer model year vehicle is insurance fraud per se. This is because it violates California Fair Claims Settlement Practices Regulations. In California, insurance fraud is a felony.
That’s pretty much what I did. I haggled with them right up until the week the two year statue of limitations ran out and threatened to take them to small claims court.
They settled for more money than they originally offered (read my postings below). One funny thing I did, or stupid thing I did (I guess it depends on how you want to look at it), once my property damage claim was settled, no one ever came and towed my totaled car away. So, about a month later I called the adjuster and asked him when he intended to have the car towed.
He tried to convince me that I should have had the car towed once the property damage claim was settled. I told him no, both he and I knew that once the property damage claim was settled I no longer owned the car—he did.
I told him he owed me storage fees for having stored the car for him (on my property) for this time period. I told him I would charge him the same amount per day (it would have been like $600 total) that he had paid the auto repair shop that had my car sitting on their lot from the day of the accident. I also said if he refused to pay me the storage fee before towing the car, I would file a mechanic’s lien on the car for the storage fees.
He quickly told me I could just keep the car. I told him I needed some kind of written release or acknowledgement that, on behalf of his company (i.e., the company that used the fraudulent CCC valuations), he was allowing me to keep the car.
He faxed the release over within minutes.
Was it a good idea? I guess it was. I still have the car and have half-heartedly been looking for an Altima with a blown engine so I can swap them out.
I read this board every time I get an update, just hoping that other folks are able to get a fair and reasonable settlement from these shyster insurance companies and their lackeys at CCC.
Hell, no wonder Warren Buffett always dreamed of owning an insurance company–legalized theft from the working man.
At this point, and since you won your arbitration case (and, by the way, congratulations!!), you might contact the court clerk and ask for copies of any documentation from the court that could verify the law firm’s actual receipt of the judgment of award. You might also ask the court clerk, and be sure you tell the court clerk you ARE NOT asking them for legal advice, but ask the court clerk if they have any forms or informational booklets related to confirming the arbitration award as a court judgment and seeking a judgment of execution.
If I were you–and this is just my opinion–I would not deal with this obviously incompetent and inept attorney and her law firm unless it was via certified mail, return receipt requested. No more phone calls. No meetings. Nothing.
Always remember: Not written, not said.
Since you already know who the legal eaglet’s “supervisor” is, I think, if I were you, I would mail both of these legal buffoons (buffoons that clearly give the legal profession a bad name) a simple demand letter, short and sweet. I would write the demand letter to the supervisor and copy the legal eaglet. Send both demand letters and copies of the judgment of award in separate evelopes via certified mail, return receipt requested.
I think I would also say something to the effect that, since it’s been over a month and a half since the judgement, if you are forced to seek assistance from the courts in enforcing the arbitrator’s award, you intend to consult and retain an attorney to have the courts confirm the arbitration award as a court judgment and then seek a judgment of execution. You might also say that in addition to asking the courts to award you reimbursement for all your attorney’s fees and court costs, you intend to seek lost interest and return on the award, too. (I don’t know if the courts would award it, but it doesn’t hurt to ask the court).
Include a copy of the judgment of award, and demand payment within X amount of days (7 days? 10 days? 30 days? I guess you can decide what would seem reasonable to a judge or jury) from the law firm’s receipt of your demand letter.
I don’t think there’s any reason to be nasty in the demand letter, just to the point. You can call them a buffoon if want to. Heck, tell ’em I told you to. (JUST KIDDING!)
Don’t let them B.S. you that the legal eaglet was out of town on vacation or working on another case—that’s her law firm’s problem, not yours. Some of these losers just have thin skin and shouldn’t be in the legal profession. Hopefully, law firms who employee buffoons like this will put them where they belong: behind a desk or out on the street.
One article I found that might help you a little is very brief, but informative.
“. . . . An arbitration award can easily be confirmed as a court judgment, which can then be used to collect payment from the losing party. . . .”
“. . . . Under both the Federal and Uniform Acts, an entry of judgment confirming an arbitration award will have the same force and effect as a judgment entered in a court initiated litigation.17 This means that the successful party in an arbitration can use the judgment confirming the award to execute against the unsuccessful party’s assets (by using all of the means available to a successful litigant in a judicial
proceeding). . . .”
This article also states:
“. . . . Most states have adopted some version of the Uniform Enforcement of Foreign Judgments Act (Uniform Enforcement Act) or the Revised Uniform Enforcement of Foreign Judgments Act, an abbreviated version of the Uniform Enforcement Act. Under û2 of the Uniform Enforcement Act, the judgment creditor registers the judgment by filing an authentic copy of it in a court of the other state. As soon as registration occurs, the court may direct a sheriff to attach available property of the judgment debtor. Sale of property cannot occur, however, until the new court enters a final judgment, and this may require a hearing. Final judgment call be entered automatically, without a hearing, if the judgment debtor fails to respond after the court obtains personal jurisdiction or, if personal jurisdiction is not possible, after the court mails notice of the enforcement proceedings to the judgment debtor. Under the Uniform Enforcement Act, a state court can execute the judgments not only of other state courts, but of federal courts as well. . . .”
You can also, for what its worth, threaten to file a complaint with the local or state bar association that this legal eaglet is a member of. Unfortunately, it usually seems to be a waste of time for laymen like you and me. The bar associations are, at least in my experience, like a mafia—they take care of their own. Don’t believe it? Do some research.
I wouldn’t threaten to file unless it’s a last ditch effort, but if you’re all out of options, why not? After one individual gets enough complaints, maybe the bar associations will slap them on the wrist.
You might also look into the Federal Arbitration Act (Federal Act) and the Uniform Arbitration Act (Uniform Act).
I am writing once again to inform the insurance consumer. I recently resolved an insurance claim by arbitration order June 23, 2008. The defendants Unique Insurance Company represented by Parillo, Weiss, & Ohalloran did not filed a rejection of award within the thirty day period. Judgement of award was signed off August 29, 2008. I personally filed three forms and the clerk stamped all three. One copy for the courts, one copy for Parillo, Weiss, & Ohalloran, and one copy for myself. I have been calling Parrillo, Weiss, & Ohalloran for approximately two weeks leaving my phone number along with messages for Ms. Peg Schmal–the attorney who is assigned to this case. Ms. Peg Schmal never returned any of my calls nor did she ever come to the phone. Today is October 7, 2008 and Peg Schmal left a message with the receptionist to tell me she never received the “Judgement of award” And that she was also waiting for me. My question is if Ms. Peg Schmal never got the “Judgement of Award” why did she not return my calls two weeks ago? And most importantly why did she respond to the receptionist after I left a message with the supervising attorney? Ninteen months after my car was totalled I still have not been compensated. Once again these letters are to inform the insurance consumer about the underhanded traits used by these insurance companies and law firms as well.
Dawn I do believe many people leave comments that are only out of context. Such as myself. Secondly, each state governs their own companies. It is not a coincident that these people are complaining about the same issue. I know from personal experience about ccc valuescope, Unique Insurance Company, the law firm that represents them and the stack of information I have here doing research. Once again I, like many others are only speaking out of context. I do not believe anyone is describing detailed information concerning his or her business. You must work for the insurance company or ccc valuescope, or maybe even one of these law firms. For the record I am also speaking actual cash value even though The Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation says retail value. Finally, to make things soft and sweet why focus on retail or actual cash value in relations to totaled vehicles. Why not have the insurance company to replace the vehicle —that way there is no question as to the value, I think that would fall somewhere in your policy huh? Or should I say duh!!!
Actually Stafford, I work for a Plantiffs Personal Injury Attorney and I see the consumer get screwed everyday! I think you are confusing my comment with S. Bailey!
What my point is, is that whether you try to get fair compensation from your own insurance carrier or from the 3rd party carrier (the at-fault person that caused the accident), in the end, the insurance companies use one of these companies (CCC for example) to assess your vehicles value. These companies assessments are grossly inacurate. As I stated, in my experience at least 90% of the time they are way off of what a comparable vehicle would cost or teh “actual cash value”.
My comment was to S. Baily, he/she said that we should all read our policies and that we aren’t entitled to retail value for our totalled vehicles… at least that is how I read his/her comment.
One can only replace their totalled vehicle by going out and buying another one, probably RETAIL… that is how I’ve purchased my vehicles, how about you?
I wish we could force the insurance companies to buy a replacement but they stand firm with these evaluations and simply tell us that they will only pay from their evaluations and if our client does not accept then we will have to sue them! When dealing with a 3rd party carrier, this ends up being our ONLY recourse, to sue… seems a bit much when in the end, the insurance company wins! Once again thanks to their deeper pockets, or the tax payers deep pockets nowadays!)
And by the way, I would never work in the insurance industry! EVER!
Dawn I am sorry—-I read your comment over and you have my humble apologize. For the record I have been through much with these Insurance Companies and law firms for almost two years. It upsets me to see anyone with the audacity of trying to justify the corruption in this industry. Nevertheless, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Consumer you must be aware of comments like S. Baily –his comments are only to distract you from pursuing your claim. Personnally he sounds like he has an attitude of a loser to me!!!
After reading negative comment upon negative comment about insurance companies and CCC, one common theme plays in my head. The consumer is not reading their auto insurance policy. Auto insurance pays actual cash value or private party when a vehicle is totaled. Auto insurance does not pay retail. Many of these comments suggest otherwise, which convey’s to me, that whomever is making these comments have not read their policy.
NADA is all retail based, meaning they are typically going to be at a higher value, including the dealership markups, retail fees and detailing fees. The “moneymaker” that many of you should be refuting, are the auto dealerships. The dealerships mark up the value of the vehicle so they can turn a profit. Don’t be upset with the insurance company because they are not willing to pay for the dealership to make a profit. If you were purchasing a vehicle as a private consumer, I would venture to say that you would not reimburse the original owner for the amount the dealership marked up the vehicle when they originally purchased it.
Before critizing the “big bad insurance company” maybe you should educate yourself on what you are paying for. When you purchase an item that costs the same amount as your insurance premium, I am sure you educate yourself on the product and are aware of why you are paying $1000+ for said item. Your insurance policy is no different. If you read it, you will see that it clearly states that when your vehicle is totaled, you are compensated for the actual cash value, or market value of your vehicle.
Bottom line is, your vehicle is a piece of metal, it is not made of gold and probably just not worth as much as you think it is. Read your policy prior to making judgments.
You are not looking at the situation from a 3rd party angel… what if my claim is with the guy who hit me? There is no policy reading I can do in this case, the policy is his, not mine. The accident was his fault, his insurance company should pay, not mine… BOTTOM LINE!
I research CCC evaluations EVERYDAY at my job and only see about 10% of them come even close to being a fair offer… and I don’t just rely on KBB or NADA, I actually research what the vehicle is selling in the pricipally garaged area. In Washington State, the office of the Insurance Commisioner clearly states… Actual Cash Value = the cost to replace your car with a like car. Where am I going to get a like car? FROM A DEALER, more than likely, DUH! I have a strong suspision that you work for the insurance industry!
If insurance companies pay retail for a totaled vehicle, what is to stop a retailer from hiking up the price, well knowing the insurance company will pay it? Why would a 3rd party total loss be paid out on a retail basis and a 1st party total loss paid out private party? Are you suggesting a blanket retail markup price that each auto retailer would have to abide by? And if so, how do you regulate this? I am not suggesting that your ideas are out of the question, I just do not see a way to implement this.
Auto repair shops already markup estimates when they know the repairs are being paid for by an insurance company. (Just to cover myself prior to a comment coming back. A friend of mine worked at a repair shop and was told to markup all insurance estimates. This national chain deals specifically with many reputable insurance companies. He refused to, and was terminated.)
Vehicle’s are sold in the private party market on a daily basis. Check your local papers. Not everyone in society is out to turn a profit.
You are correct, I do work for an insurance company and adjust total losses on a daily basis. There are many instanstances where KBB and NADA are of a lesser value than CCC. Are you suggesting that insurance companies pay the lesser value regardless?
I agree that every situation is different. But just because one party is NOT at fault doesn’t mean the value of their vehicle should be increased. In addition, insurance companies are not able to purchase vehicles for people, as this would be a conflict of interest and I am sure consumers would also have something negative to say about that. Insurance companies are in the insurance business, not in the car sales business.
Consumers are not being taken to the cleaners on a regular basis. Consumers are not being realistic about their vehicle replacements. If the 3rd party compensation is not what the owner thinks it should be, they can go under their own policy, and would see that their own insurance company, more than likely, settles total losses in a similar manner. If the 3rd party doesn’t value their vehicle enough to have collision coverage, why should the “at fault party” value their vehicle? Bottom line, anyone who drives, sits or owns a vehicle puts themselves at risk. It is just part of driving. I am STILL just not understanding why insurance ccompanies should pay for a dealership to make money off of a consumer?
Just a side note to Dawn and Stafford. I will not be stooping to your level and passing judgement on either of your professions or levels of professionalism, or shall I say, lack there of.
I research values in the ENTIRE local market, that includes private party vehicles as well as dealer vehicles.
I then average out the value (that seems to be a fair way of coming up with the value if you ask me.) I take in account all factors, mileage, condition, etc… We then ask the insurance company for that fair value… the CCC values are always so much lower than ANY vehicle I find in our local area for a comparison vehicle that is for! How is that fair if the consumer cannot go find a “like” vehicle for the amount the insurance company is offering???
This is what I do EVERY DAY for individuals that feel they have to hire a plantiffs attorney because they have found out they they are being scammed by the insurance companies! SHOCKING!
My sole job is fair compensation for our clients damaged vehicle, so I am well aware of researching a “FAIR MARKET VALUE”… I am also very aware that the insurance companies rarely offer the “FAIR MARKET VALUE”!
as I said before, 90% of the time, the insurance company says “take a flying you-know-what”! Take the offer, or sue! In my opinion, that is such a horrible use of our justice system! Our firm prefers to settle, not litigate, unless forced!
S. Bailey I will take credit for the lack of professionalism. But we are speaking facts here and now that you admitted to working for an insurance company you should know the facts as well. First and far most—when you sell car insurance to the consumer –what do you use to determine the value of his or her vehicle? Simple question Mr. Bailey!!! When you determine the down payment and the monthly premiums what system would your company use? I think its a double standard here because you will use the NADA or KBB or something similiar at the retail value to jack up the down payment and monthly premiums but if he or she has an accident or in my case the car is totaled you will run to ccc valuescope—ccc valuescope is professional in this area the documentation is professional –the sources they use to justify the documentation is professional and most people will not question the documentation. Nevertheless, Mr. Baily I did my own research through the same sources ccc valuescope used and came up with a different valuation. Once again lets talk facts because professionalism has nothing to do with it–either its the truth or a lie. And right now you are trying defend your field of employment and I can not take that from you but you are not talking to the consumer who is looking for answers. I been through the whole process with you people for nineteen months –so I know how you lie!!! Don’t show up, send lawyers who just roll out of bed without washing his or her face, adjusters coming in with last night wine and sex on his or her breath, angry for not being able to explain the documentation when its being questioned, And finally getting fired for not being able to defend the company with the standard corrupted format. You see Mr. Bailey you might be here yourself complaining if the consumer pursues you as an indivdual because you will become the fall guy. You make statements here but trust me the company you work for will most likely not back you if the consumer comes at you —something for you to think about—lack of professionalism on my part—-Hello Dawn
Bailey brings up some interesting, though veerrryyyy misleading, issues. This is isn’t a personal attack on you, Bailey, but your comments are not atypical for someone in your industry.
And I am sorry to point out Bailey, but you are wrong or misleading on several issues you mentioned in your postings and you use flawed—very flawed—logic. Without addressing each one, the largest majority of these comments made by us on this board are not in any way negative: these comments and postings are about REAL, ACTUAL incidents and experiences we’ve all had or are having at the hands of shysters in your industry.
You cannot deny that it is, in fact, your job to try and get the victim (i.e., that would most of us who have posted on this board) of your company’s client to settle for THE LOWEST offer possible and not a REASONABLE or FAIR offer. Hell, you know as well as most of us do that if you were to try and settle claims fairly, you would be out of a job very shortly, or at least your bonuses would be shot to hell.
When you speak of replacement value, I suggest you review and describe to all of us neophytes on this board something called LKQ (Like, Kind and Quality) insurance companies and appraisal companies mention in their offer. I also suggest you read our experiences more thoroughly, though I doubt you care to. CCC, at least in my case, and as I mentioned in earlier postings, used wrong makes, models as well as the wrong state and city on their fraudulent appraisal. I assure you, this was no mistake on their part.
In reference to your comment to Dawn and Stafford: no judgment was passed. We all speak from first-hand experience. I can assure you, once you are employed by these kinds of insurance mentioned on this board by us and appraisal companies like CCC, and I’m not saying your are and I hope your not, but if you are, you likely stooped far below any level we could have by fraudulently attempting to devalue our claims, and you, along with these kinds of insurance companies and CCC, have passed judgment on each of us regardless of our professions or our level of professionalism. Insurance companies look upon EACH AND EVERY CLAIMANT as an adversary—and you know it as well as we do.
Again, we could go to prison (because the insurance companies would file charges against us) if we tried to fraudulently inflate our insurance claims to the extent that shysters in your industry try to deflate claims.
We go to jail—shysters in your industry get paid big bonuses. Sure, Dawn, Stafford, myself and the rest of us are the bad guys stooping to unbelievable lows. All I can say is even a prostitute would defend her profession and professionalism the same way shysters in the insurance industry defend themselves and their industry.
I do acknowledge that I may have made some comments that may be viewed as “negative” by some.
OOPPPS! Mea Culpa.
Thank you for your very informative postings, Dawn and Stafford!
Please notice that this is a websiite for your industry. Look at the number of people that have found this site and complained. How many others felt taken advantage of and never found this site. Conversely, look at how many people in your industry, that no doubt visit this website on a regular basis, have aided you in prosenting your side.
I might add that what I am hearing from you is much the same that I heard from Dairyland insurance n my dealings over tmy total loss. What has happened to compassion and customer service in todays society. Instead of stooping to our level, which by the way you did, when you made the statement that you would not lower yourself to our level, why don’t you patiently show us the way and help us on our journey. Any good insurance steward should be willing to do that.
That is so true Glenn –I mean the insurance companies try to pay you as little as possible; however, you must do your homework far as valuation. A private owner will not be a good source of market value because we all can put a price on a car and that doesn’t mean it’s worth what you are selling it for. Secondly, you made a good point about the advertisement being weeks or months earlier. But you did not mention the condition of this vehicle. In other words if I decided to sell a Honda through Auto trade such as the one you had. I could price it at maybe $500 without any details of this vehicle. But in reality this vehicle does not have a motor, it has dents and rust, the windshield is cracked, etc. So do we consider this vehicle as being market value. Of course not—so we use different sources in determining the market value such as NADA, Kelly Blue Book,and there are many others to determine the value and the valuations are thorough. Take your time and do your homework and make sure you use the same sources that ccc valuescope use outside many of your own and trust me you will get a different response through the same source ccc valuescope use. Good luck Glenn
My recent experience with CCC Valuescope Market Report for my vehicle which was declared a total loss, leaves much to be desired.
The market report used only one vehicle to determine the value of my vehicle. Is this reasonable? My vehicle was a Honda CRV, so there could be more vehicles used.
The vehicle used for comparative purposes was shown on autotrader.com with a price, of course, the price needed to adjusted for difference, which is quite correct. However, the vehicle was advertised almost 3 months early than the date of valuation. I did call the seller and was informed that the vehicle was “priced to sell” quickly. This may not be a valid comparative due to the seller’s motivation.
When looking at comparatives currently on autotrader and adjusting for year/model, options, and mileage using the market report – the difference ranged from $2,800 to $3,900 over the value shown on the market report.
When a vehicle is totalled the owner needs to quickly find a replacement vehicle, so the luxury of time to search for the low private sale does not come into play. In order to find a replacement one needs to search through retail dealers to have the largest selection to make a decision. To think that someone that has a total loss vehicle has the time to search private sellers is fairly ridiculous.
My personal experience with CCC Valuescope Market Report has shown me that it is definitely slanted in favor of the insurance companies and does not reflect the true market value of vehicles which are total losses. Aren’t insurance companies in the business of collecting premiums and trying to pay out as little as possible on claims?
Some further observations and suggestions for others. The report was prepared not in compliance with state statutes. The more I read the state statutes in this area the more potential violations I find. Individuals should review statutes governing claim settlement practices. Therefore, individuals should review the claim settlement practices within their respective states.
Individuals need to be aware that the insurance companies use storage charges and disallowance of rental days when the insured does not accept the insurance company’s offer. This is undue pressure on the consumer.
I agree with you that comp’s do not have any type of vehicle history for the comp’s, but the report does show the subject vehicle history – so there is no way to determine what is truly being compared – no way to assess quality of the comps.
The valuation does not take into effect the ability of the insured to negotiate a favorable price for a vehicle with a dealer or private party. So it is probably heavily slanted in favor of the insurance companies’ bottom line.
These are just further thoughts on this matter.
One does have to wonder if there is an enterprising attorney that will see a class act law suit with this issue?
3 days ago i recieved my report on what they would pay me for my total loss car. It stated they could not find any comp.cars in my city and shoped up to 175 miles away for cheaper cars, they found them some with 150,000 miles more than my car and said thi was comp. They also showed a diff model than what i have,no one bothered to inspect these comp. cars ,but i did. They ranged from not running well, no working a/c,windows broken ,dented,torn,cracked bondo and more. when i confronted them they were willing to change there report and are in changing their report this day to raise the value paid to me by the insur. I wonder how many other people are being cheated by this system.i forgot to mention that in 10 min on line i found 14 cars in my area,however the costs of these were much,much more than what they said they found ,oops,i guess that would have been costly for the insur.company…..thank you.
I just received a CCC Valuescope putting the total loss value of my BMW at $2500. Kelly Blue Book puts it at $5000. I cannot replace it or even repait it for the findings of CCC Valuscope.
Frank I understand your situation very well. If you have the time and resource I suggest you take this matter up in small claims court. But before you go this route try getting in touch with the insurance company’s GM. Lay your cards out on the table and let him know what you have in comparison to ccc value scopes valuation. Frank I know I am writing like backwards here but before all of this you have to do your research with people like NADA which is the National Auto Dealership Association and KBB —Kelly’s Blue Book. CCC value scope probably gave you some documents from auto check. You can register with auto check –give them your vin # and other appropiate information and trust me you will probably get different results. Auto Check would be a good source to use to contest ccc valuescope because its the same source they use; however, most of the information ccc valuescope provide is deleted, altered, fabricated, etc. so you have to read carefully. Once again when you get these things in order check out the GM and if he doesn’t respond take it to small claims court. In my case it took me a year to resolve this matter in small claims court and I got what I was asking for in the beginning. Good Luck to you!!!
Todd Brian is right—we all come here to share our stories and experiences with ccc valuescope. First and far most do not think your situation is isolated because this is what ccc valuescope wants you to do, and secondly do not believe everything you read in regards to documentation from ccc valuescope. You have to sit down and take your time and go over every tread of documents and trust me you will find many errors, deletions, alters, fabrications, etc. Make sure your vin #, model, make, year and everything coincides with your title. EVERY EVERY EVERYTHING—I can not stress this enough. Your personal homework and research is nothing like secondhand information from one of us. Thirdly, check the resources that ccc valuescope use and once again you will probably get a different valuation then ccc valuescope. Todd you have to be ready to weather the storm —these people are professionals at playing the time game –hoping you will eventually settle for much less than what your vehicle is worth—in many cases their theory is right; however, at this point before you do anything get in touch with the company manager and at least let them know that you are going to small claims court. Todd make sure you have your facts together in contrast of what ccc valuescope has—and do not think for a minute that these companies will be intimidated by you saying “I’m going to sue your ***” Man they here this all day everyday and only maybe two out of ten pursue and maybe one of those two win—and the one that loses is only because along the way he or she runs out of energy. Good Luck Todd and keep us all posted.
Todd, One other option that helped me was the Missouri Dept of Insurance. In Missouri, the dept. of Insurance is required by law to respond to EVERY complaint levied against an insurance company. They have the right to levy fines or even ban a company from doing business in the state if they feel it is justified. That is what worked for me in the end, but we all have had to follow our own path to get there. Good luck and keep us posted!
Do your own research and analysis. With your information, call the adjuster’s supervisor and then the manager, if you don’t get any positive results.
Using this method and presenting my case – my total loss vehicle was repaired as the cost of the repairs fell below the state mandated floor for the percentage for determining if a vehicle was a total loss.
Even with your research and analysis you should be to win your agrument.
The insurance company knows that you are time pressured to find a car and your rental coverage stops when it is declared a total loss as well as storage charges start. With this said be sure to negotiate that the insurance covers the rental and no storage charges.
It is time consuming and a real pain. However, keep in the back of your mind that insurance companies are in the business to collect premiums not pay out claims.
The insurance companies will do whatever they can to keep their payouts as low as possible.
Todd, Hang in there until you are satisified! Read ALL the postings on this site. We have all been through this with CCC and it takes time to buck the system, but it CAN pay off. There is a lot of good information in these postings that can be used in your favor, to get a fair and just settlement. Wouldn’t it be nice if the insurance did business like the rest of us and played above board to start with?
Again….Good luck and stay after them! Post here with questions as you go and we’ll all be glad to help however we can!
I beg to differ. I have insurance in MA that pays NADA Retail Value. I switched from metLife who I had for 20 years, and when totaled my car used CCC and screwed me, although when i argued they did up the figure. I provided NADA Retail ACV, and Comp local market values form Auto Trade, and the did up the settlement to be more in line. The insurance co I have isnt the only one that uses NADA RETAIL as the ACV, which is accurate, so when you get insurance, ask the company what system they use. In CT they have to BY LAW average 2 different ones, and it is usually Auto Source and NADA or CCC and NADA.
So before you tell everyone they can’t use NADA Retail, I am here to say that is untrue, and many do…do your homework and you won’t be treated unfairly.
I have spent the entire day reading all of the postings here – found this site because my 1997 Honda Odyssey EX was deemed a total loss and the offer I was given was based on comparables that didn’t match my car. The problem is my car is very rarely found on the market. You can find a few EX’s, but even those are not a 97. It was the other drivers fault, which no one is contesting, and I am seeing a Dr. for med care after the accident – but I think I am going to need some help. I am in Seattle – Dawn can you email me and tell me where you work? Thanks for all the input everyone, I am just trying to do my research and put one foot in front of the other!
Sorry – it has been a rough couple of weeks – and after the accident my brain isn’t quite right yet. What I meant to say is that there are no 97 Odyssey EX anywhere close to me, only LX and even very few 97’s. You can find them in the East and a few in the south. So how do I go about determining the ACV?
KV you can check the market value with Auto Check, Kellys Blue Book, (NADA) National Auto Drivers Association. These sources are accepted nation wide. You can go online to the search web and type in Kellys Blue book etc. This site will ask you for your car information: year, vin #, model, make. I had to pay for auto check. Auto check is thorough— Nada is the other reputable source, Good luck !!!
I have read many comments in this thread and find them helpful. I was sure that CCC was a ***** for the insurance company. Now I have a lot of evidence to support my thinking.
My 2001 Mazda 626 ES declared totaled as there was over 10k worth of damage. Other driver at fault ran in back of me very hard. I asked for expanded search as first search was comparing the LX model and not the ES. The ES is a more expensive model. The compared cars did not have all the bells and whistles as my car – leather interior,alloy wheels, premeium sound, moon roof, 2.5 liter engine. So they did seccond evaluation and came back with same thing! I can not find a car like mine on auto trader or vehix within 500 miles of me that is listed for less than 5,900. When they are priced lower they have higher miles or not the same features. They have offered 4,400 and are playing hard ball. I need info to battle these jerks. We are not even that far apart. I would be okay with 5,300 or at least 5K. We are less than 1k apart and this guy won’t budge. I have not talked to supervisor or manager yet. How do I best argue with them.
Anthony you are now searching for answers and this is the first thing to do. There will be many problems searching for the exact car, mileage, etc. this is virtually impossible; however, this is why we have professionals in this field. Such as Auto Check, Kelly’s Blue Book, and Nada, which is the National auto dealership association. Anthony you can go online and type in one of the above names and this will take you to their website. Thereafter you will be ask a series of questions pertaining to your vehicle, such as vin#, model, make, year, mileage, etc. and in some cases they may ask you within what mile radius are you seeking. Finally, for thorough information from two of the above sources you will have to register and pay a fee of twenty dollars. But trust me it is well worth it. Because this is the same source the insurance company or should I say ccc valuescope use. However, the information given to the source by ccc valuescope or your insurance company is tainted. The source will only give you information according to the information you give them. Take your time and be patient –you will be happy with your findings. Good Luck!!!
You’re on the absolute right track. Just like I posted below, when I went above the lowly adjuster to his manager I had my information laid out just like a book report in high school and countered his offer page by page, paragraph by paragraph, sentence by sentence and word by word-and I mean I literally went through it step by step as listed above. Of course, I sent a copy of my report to the manager beforehand with even more documentation than I had sent the lowly adjuster. It was just like a high school debate each time I spoke with either of them (and I followed up with a certified letter varifying and documenting the issues we covered in the conversation).
It just depends on if you calculate your time spent being worth fighting for the extra $$$.
I’m glad to find this site. I was feeling pretty lonely. Yes, same story, CCC and ins. company lowballing with no concern of fairness or hardships they’re causing. I’m trying to hold on but I’m getting tired. I went several rounds with a Geico Stepford wife. She had all the excussed lined up as to how CCC calculated everything. None of it made scense. I didn’t know about being charged for storage of the totaled car if I didn’t bend over and take their offer. Not sure where to go from here. If we accept the lowball offer ($1200) that we need for a down payment for another car, does that mean we have no recourse by due process after the settlement? I’m beginning to feel desperate.
Welcome to the club Don—upon receiving that $1200 I believe you will also have to sign some papers –and those papers will basically outline the agreement. Meaning –you agree to the total value of your vehicle ($1200) and by signing this check the issue is now resolved. SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. This is a long process and if you can not weather the storm then accept the offer. The bottom line is your situation and if its worth fighting for to you as an individual. Consider the time you must put in, money you must invest, and the stress it will cause. Nevertheless, this is not to discourage you, its to prepare you for whats ahead. I personally think you should fight if you believe you been wronged. Good luck Don!!!
My car was rear ended by a USAA insured….they totaled my vehicle and gave me a low ball offer. I completed a detailed audit of CCC’s valuation and they results a squed towards the lower end to the tune of 25%. I’ve tried the State of Ohio Insurance complaint route with no results. It doesn’t make sense to hire an attorney, so what are my options?
If you are having problems with CCC’s Valuescope valuation, then file a complaint with the FTC at 10877034204357. Other than a class action lawsuite, this is the only method I know to stop them from this unfair practice.
Katy you have many options—First and far most get all your information and facts in order. Lawyers are very expensive and many tactics used by lawyers are only to win the case. However, a lawyer can never stand against the facts of your case if you present the facts and truth before the courts or abritrators. Secondly, you have to read all information coming from your insurance company. Believe me you will be amazed by the information that has been altered, fabricated, and deleted. Of course you will have to check the same sources, and the validity of the information provided to you. Finally, be prepared for a long ride. Katy once you get your facts in order–and before doing anything else–make sure you give the insurance company the opportunity to make good by getting in touch with the General Manager or someone in charge. Good luck Katy and if there is anything else I can assist you with do not hesitate to hit the insurance journal and I will find you.
I was in a wreck where a teenager rearended me at a red light and pushed me 6ft into another car. insurance is claiming my vehicle is totaled. I have ran comparisons on my SUV for 6 months now becuase i was wanting to trade it in. The insurance is offering me 3,700 when I can only find one vehicle the same as mine, but a year older and more miles then mine at 5,495. Ive pretty much had the insurance agent handling my claim tell me im a 21year old that doesnt know what im doing when it comes to evaluations, little does he know my boyfirend has been a Chevy evaluation agent for 7 years. We offered to settle at 5,600 when easly mine is worth 7,400 If they dont budge we will be seeing them in court. CCC is an opinion on what the lowest cost could be. You are welcome to have your own apreasil on your vehicle, and i suggest you do it and make the insurance pay you 100.00 bucks it cost.
I have been dealing with Unitrin Specialty. they insured a woman who let a drunk driver behind the wheel of her car. he ran a red light totaled my 96 dodge neon. in the market i cant find one less than 1500.00 unitrin went off of what ccc valuation told them my car was worth which was 1023.00 the insurance co stopped paying for my rental as of today i have no car to get back and forth to work and no money to replace my car it has been thirty days since this happend they say the check is in the mail any suggestions that would help PLEASE
Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company are using CCC Valuescope to total loss my vehicle. The comps they used to evaluate my car deminished the value causing it to fall in the total loss column. I have not settled with them yet. I just sent paperwork to a class action lawfirm in San Diego. I am going to fight them tooth and nail. I decided to fix my car myself and have an appraisal done when it is finished while my lawyer subrogates to get my money back.
I’m not sure if any of their other victims on this board has an opinion on this one, but if I were in your shoes and I were going to fight these bastards “tooth and nail”, I would ensure that I had plenty of clear, detailed photographs of the damage before I did the repairs.
Also, though I’m not sure, it may also help your cause if you obtained 1, 2 or even 3 other appraisals before you do the repair work.
what a great site! i to am a victim of ccc my 99 ford e 350 van was stolen from florida and was recoverd in knoxville tenn burned to a crisp. all personal property and equipment in van of course was gone. nada/ kbb states acv is $6100 to 6500. my insurence co travlers offerd $2600. i have paid more in premiums in the last 2 years then what they offerd. what a joke!! is there still a class action law suit? ebay shows market value + there is no way i can replace it for $2600 even on ebay. the prices on ebay much reflect the nada/kbb book prices. i would like to know what ccc stand for? crooks 3 x
Patrick what you have to understand is that because the insurance company offers you something does not mean your car is worth the offer. It also does not mean you have to take the offer. Thirdly, we have to understand the Insurance Company’s point of view—to them its a business; to us as individuals its personal. In other words the company’s guidelines, policies, and standards are set for us all. Don’t get me wrong I am not an advocate for the Insurance Company. I am telling you these things to get your focus in another area concerning your issue. We will help you and inform you of our experiences but you will have to fight and it will take some time but you will feel good when its over if you fight for what you believe. I wish you luck and I hope this will help you in some way. Good luck
We’ve all been where you are and we feel your frustration, but Stafford is right. It’s not personal and if you can keep your cool while dealing with the Insurance Co. you will come out better in the end. Read through the postings here and you will find a lot of good advice on how to proceed. The insurance company counts on you being in a pinch and being willing to settle just so you can get back on the road. They will drag their feet until you think you are going to loose your mind! It took me a year to double their first offer.
After looking through the comments here, you still have a question, feel free to post and one of us will be glad to give you our opinion. Keep in mind though, these are just our opinions from experience with these guys (CCC = Crooks X3, I like that!), so you may need to customize what we tell you to fit your circumstances.
Good luck and let us know if we can help!
~Brian Williams~
I rarely post a comment on a blog, but I felt I needed to post on this subject. My 2000 Honda Accord was recently hit from behind and was deemed a total loss by Geico. They offered me a very lowball figure for my vehicle. Well, I too was told that Geico does not use KBB, Edmonds, etc. The claims adjuster sent me a copy of the CCC Valuescope local market report. I reviewed it with a fine tooth comb and was able to point out discrepancies in the report. I was able to use there own valuation methodology against them as they selected vehicles from only one city in Delaware which did not account for people living in rural communities.
“The Valuation Methodology states that “using a weighted average results in a more accurate Local Market Value as the vehicles most similar and closest to the loss vehicle (nearest to the loss vehicle’s garage location) contribute more to the value than less similar, more distant vehicles”. However, their report used vehicles over 90 miles (in a metropolitan area) from my home (located in a rural area) and did not take into account mileage used by city drivers vs. rural drivers.
In addition, I contact each dealer/private owner that they claim they used to make the valuation. One of the vehicle used, was not for sale (list for sale by a private owner). The other dealership could not recall if they ever had the vehicle listed on the valuation report, so I had no way of knowing what condition the vehicle was in or what the dealer actually sold the vehicle for. The vehicles that were used in the report were allegedly published in news papers several months prior to my accident, so I couldn’t have went out a purchased these vehicles even if I wanted to.
The report ballooned its deduction for ‘so called’ interior conditions. To make a long story short, I compiled all needed information, including finding comparable vehicle closer to my rural community and made a counter offer for a price I felt I could live with. My adjuster reviewed all of my information and contacted me the next day to accept my counter offer. It was a lot of work, but I was able to get about $1000.00 more than the original offer.
This is NUTS! I have read these posts and it seems I am in the same boat. Unfortunately it is my son’s car and he is in college without wheels. USAA will not back away from the CCC Valuescope report despite the glaring holes in it. They provided comparable trucks a year newer and listing for $1000 less than the my-year comparable truck. Then they took off another $450 because the comparables were newer model years. This grossly skewed the average downward by $1450 and that was before you look at options or mileage. USAA doesn’t understand how CCC gets these numbers and when they put me on with a CCC representative, all they could say was that it was a proprietary formula and they have been in business for over 25 years. Basically saying to me “how dare you question our findings”. I did end USAA 6 same year comparables to use, but they refused. Are there magic words to use with USAA to get them off my dime?
The easiest words to use if USAA is your insurance carrier is that you want the amount of loss settled by appraisal. It costs money, but in the cases i have been involved in, money well spent.If in fact they are your insurance company, want the amount of the loss settled by appraisal, send me your contact number via e-mail and i will call you.
Hi Kathy. I have been going back and forth with USAA over a total loss for 4 mnths now. Their practices are really fraudulent and thy manipulate the numbers. That sounds like a drastic thing to say, but you would be horrified if I went throug it h with you! I could go on for pages. Did you resolve your situation? How? Please let me know. I can’t stand much more of this. I think I have no choice but to sue them at this point. Fortunately, I can do this wtihout spending money on attorneys fees. But its still a big hassle. If you want to pursue them, let me know and we might be able to do this as a group.
Thanks, Jen
3.1.0. 9*0*3* >0>7>1>7
There is one honest insurance company out there. My neighbors car rolled out of the driveway and T-Boned my 1996 Olds 98 sitting in front of my house. My neighbor had State Farm Insurance on her car. They contacted me the next day and made an appointment to come out and look at the damage, which looked very minor to me. The inspector showed up 10 minutes earily for the appointment and pointed out several things I had not noticed. He then looked at the rest of the car and decided my car was extra clean and therefore did not meet the 80% of value guideline to total it. The inspector told me had it been totaled he could give me a check on the spot for $2850 (I paid $2400 for the car 3 years ago) but since it was repairable they would have to run the numbers at the office and get back to me.
The next day I received a phone call and they offered me $2725 for the damage and I accepted. 4 days later the check arrived. A new strut for $150 and a front end allignment for $75 and I am back on the road.
This was such a difference from my experience 9 months earilier when I had to deal with Dairyland Insurance and CCC, that we called our insurance company and ask if the used CCC. It took a while, and talking to several people, but we finally found out that yes, they did. We told them that was not acceptable to us and we were leaving them. We are now with State Farm! Should anything happen now that is our fault, I know the other party will not have to suffer through what we have all had to put up with! I also feel I am supporting a comapny that has the same moral values I do. Thanks for listening to my story.
I agree! I too have State Farm and was rear-ended on the freeway in March. State Farm handled my total loss so quickly and they were more than fair! I was paid almost $5k more than I would have accepted for my totaled Mercedes! I was ecstatic to say the least! I work for a PI attorney and have found this to be the case with State Farm more often than not. I would encourage those insured with other carriers to make the switch! I have been with them for 15 years and they have been great! I cannot say that about ANY OTHER carrier! Especially the ones that rely so heavily on the BS CCC evaluations!
I have let the South Carolina Department of Insurance review the CCC Evaluation and they contacted Nationwide , who are suppose to be updating my evaluation because of discrepancies in that evaluation. I am waiting on them for an updated evaluation. I since been in contact with the lawfirm, Krinsk and Finkelstein in San Diego, California. I spoke with Mr. Jeffrey Krinsk , who informed me that I have a very good case. Anyone who has been a victim of Nationwide’s bad faith practice please contact jrk@classactionlaw.com.
after my september 14th post i took all info that i gatherd on here from other post and called back insurance co and said the comps they gave had been sold six months prior and some had sold for more then their comps said. because i called the dealers. i then ask i if they [my insurance co] knew that ccc was involved in a class action law suit because of lowballing claims? reply no not at all.i said at what point do i call my lawyer? they said they would check into this and get back to me. the next day they called and decided to change their tune of an offer of $2.600.00 at first to the sum of $5.800.00 settlement. i agreed.my point keep fighting for whats right it my take time but but worth it. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !!! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP IN THIS MATTER. PAT.C P.S THEY TOLD ME THEY WOULD NOT USE CCC ANY LONGER DUE TO I INFO I GAVE THEM.
I recently had accident not at my fault, got hit fromthe back. My insurance did aprisal with the ccc valuation on my 2002 nissan maxima GLe and the price that they offered almost 3000 less then the actual value on kbb is. What should I do? For the money that they are offered me now i cant even buy anything close to my car that they claim is total.
Welcome to the club Babara. I can feel your agitation. Nothing like getting a lowball figure via letter or phone call huh? Well Barbara the first step is to prove your car to be worth more than what the insurance company is offering you. Check Kelly’s Blue Book, Auto check, etc. make sure you provide detail information about your car–such as GLE, sedan, miles, year, condition etc. This is very important. Likewise check the information the insurance company is giving you. How are they determining the value. For example, one headlight is missing, cracked windshield, etc. go over the paperwork carefully. After you have taken care of all your business and if the settlement offer is still outrageous to you, call the Insurance Company and ask to speak to a manager or supervisor I would suggest going to the company. Explain in detail the differences in their assessment compared to yours and make it clear how important it is for you to have a car soon as possible. If the company does not comply make it clear that you will be seeking other damages if you have to pursue this matter. Good luck Barbara
In addition to Staffords excellent suggestions, take the time to read all the postings on this site. There is a lot of good info here and most of us had to tweek our approach as the situation dictated. Learn from the others here that have gone before you and you should have a good result. Feel free to write back if you have other questions, we’re all in your corner!!
I see that Stafford and some others are truly knowledgeable. I too have had a car totaled and as a third party claimant I am a bit “hanging out there” The CCC valuescope only used two vehicles for their analysis, neither of which were the top of the same top of thee line Toyota Celica GTS, but were different bodied and smaller engined ST and GT models. One was from a dealer and was insepcted by the CCC valuescope filed team and seems to me to be an Ok comparable. The other was a private seller that CCC valuescope did not inspect. Surely they need to inspect the vehicles in order to arrive at their adjustments in baseline value. But for this unsen vehicle they made no “baseline adjustment” That seems plain wrong to include such a vehicle as the car was for sale very cheaply (25% of the NADA price) and likely had many problems but the point is no one can say for sure…! Also, in Maryland these valuations are required to be “statistically valid.” For anyone who is at all familiar with statistical methods having a sample size of two does not allow meaningful analysis. They should have a sample size of at least 10. But of course CCC valuescope is really being paid by the insurance companies to try and find the lowest value comparable car. Seems to me that this situation requires Federal Legislation to get an even playing field.
The only way to alleviate this industry-wide fraud is for the government to step in.
We consumers don’t need protection from companies like CCC and the insurance companies who choose to use these fraudsters–we consumers need protection from the con artist executives and lawyers who run them. These insurance company executives and lawyers should be in jail for their fraudulent business practices.
I’ve said it before in postings below and I’ll say it again: Each of us would be facing insurance fraud charges and jail time if we attempted to fraudulently INFATE insurance claims the way CCC and the insurance companies who use them try to fraudulently DEFLATE our claims.
AHHHHHhhhh. . . that felt good. I hadn’t posted in a while and REEAALLLLYYY felt good to emphasize the hypocrisy in our insurance laws.
And Barb, you should read all the postings below for some insite and suggestions, and remember that these shysters don’t give a damn about ethics, morals or you and your family; they just care about how much money they can cheat each of us out of.
What in the world is going on with the lawsuit? I have asked for updates since sending in the Claim Form in 2006 and have been put off. My last attempt for information in the form of a letter just came back to me as undelieverable. The Total Loss website is no longer active. WTF ! How long does it take to get an answer on a suit that occurred in 2006?! They have always had an address where they can reach me. I have contacted the 2 attorney offices listed in the original notification. Does anyone know anything about the lawsuit? This is ridiculous! Thank you for your help.
I am currently having this very same issue with my insurance adjuster thru Nationwide Ins Co and CCC One. CCC One is trying to compare my daughters vehicle in clean, great condition with vehicles 75-98 miles away, the first vehicle in CCC comparison was an auction sold vehicle because it had so many issues with the body and mechanically, the second vehicle did not even exist per that dealer but they did have another vehicle fitting some of the description for more then twice the price CCC was stating, and the thrid vehicle listed again was not a vehicle on the lot but that dealer had one that was 2 years older that was in complete dispair. I will do everything I can in order to fight this. Including Attorney General, Insurance Commisioner (I do believe they are breaking the law by not supplying requested information such as comps and reports), I have even considered an attorney as my other child was in the vehicle as well in which was injured. Sad really to only expect the fair value of your vehicle, not even market value and the insurance is still taking a low blow to you.
I am just now going through the same process. I have been offered $10,000 for my totalled car but I cannot find the same model for less than $12500 and then there is tax on top of that. The new tires (2 weeks prior – I still have the reciept) they told me “tough luck”! Everything they have listed is 100 miles from me, how can that be fair? After telling them I’m not happy with their assesment they more or less said “so sue me”. These people really need taking down a peg or two. They are just bullies.
Lynda – I too went through what you are going through and they basically told me to sue them…..and I did so to speak. I filed a formal complaint with the Insurance Board and the Attorney General. I was originally offered $3000 for a vehicle that I could find no lower than $7500. Well after filing my complaints and proving they had falsified the reports….I walked away with $25,000….and the pleasure of laughing in the gentleman’s face that told me I wouldn’t get over $3000 and I might as well take it and shut up. Don’t give up the fight if you know you are right….
I have recently battle with USAA who uses CCC Valuescope, and I have calls to the Ex Director level. The games that USAA has used consists of having staffing in training and not returning calls for over 6 days, other heads of departments leaving in the middle of negotiations never to call back.
As this adventure has been a fight about “win” on their part, I have managed to increas the very fraudulent evaluation from CCC to an additional $700. I am still in the middle of this battle and requesting in any intelligent life lines out there who could help, as this battle is not over.
They are so anxious for me to send in my title to them so they could send only 75% of the devalued amount. I am still battling for $644 more. I have gotten these alleged crooks to remove one vehicle that was out of state, which is against IL law, so with all my vehicle history with a licensed certified dealer mechanic, the car fax on the vehicles they chose with no impacted history which of course I cannot inspect [phantom cars] there is this deduction I wanted to point out to all; what is a “Baseline deduction?” I had this very slow talking Texan tell me that it was (bottomline) nothing more than a prepping charge thaqt dealers pass on to the consumer when they purchase a call off the lot. Thus, USAA holds that amount back as another way to keep in their pockets. Has anyone heard about that one?
Let me know if you know what to do at this juncture…it looks like BBB, Atty General, Insurance Board, and a Class Action Suit. After what they have put me through and the finance charge I will be paying for their delays and tactics, I will be writing to all that I know. One insurance consumer advocate is Birny Birnbaum…keep that name for a reference to look up to see what he has done to try and stop the corrupt practice by eliciting this credit scoring policy which ultimately raises our premiums by using modules. I have sites and documents to stay informed on that issue, as we need this stopped. VA was successful and as they were able to view the “black box data”, once that happened they did away with the evil practice of their systematic scoring which ultimately only benefits them.
Recently had car totaled and was offered $2,600 as settlement — based on CCC One Mkt Valuation.
Red Book values car at $5,275, and NADA $4,350 — averaging the two arrieved at $4,813.
Question…
1) Insurer’s duty to insured…”fair claims handling”
2) Fraud — CCC falsification of data, remedies?
3) Conflict of interest — CCC Services Inc works exclusively for collission shops and the Insurer, for a fee.
Donna I fear many consumers are being damaged by their Insurers and CCC One…just look at all the posts preceeding yours…please let us know what state you are in.
Thanks for the postings, folks it is helping knowing I am not alone.
USAA increased my vehicle by $43 after removing an out-of-state vehicle on the CCC report that should not have been there in the first place, thus stealing my time and arguing this point to exhaustion. (what does that do for healing?) The car they removed would have been beneficial had the dealer listed and took the listed price, however at this price; $15,995 I would guess it should have helped my value, but the dealer would “take it” at a $5,400 loss. I asked other dealers and the shock and the reaction for that much mark up was not believable Only this time and the big increase was : Ta Da $43. WOW!
True Story:
USAA will quickly write a check for a member’s neighbor’s dog in a fight for get this;roma and massage therapy, but they put members though this? Who are they for? They can put members in vulnerable positions drag this on, not return calls and when they do; it is late right before closing on Friday. I know how they will quickly write a check for the other person, but play the game with the injured member.
The claims adjuster, Sherri and Jennifer in Medical were the kindest of all, the rest….sorry! I have choice words for one person recently, but my prayers are they will come quickly to a fair settlement that has lasted for 3.5 weeks.
BTW how long did it take others to get their CCC report? USAA had it for 17 days before they sent it to me. 20 days after my accident I got it.
Has anyone had this:
When I saw that the adjuster had marked my car down as it “appeared to have scratches in the area where my car was not damaged” I asked where was that? He hesitated, and said that he saw some areas. folks the thought I had was, must have been on the rear view mirror, as this was a roll over!
My car went airborne after an 8 month old Yokohoma Tire went flat. down a ditch up the hill crashed on one side and flipped. I asked, Sir, where was that area? His reaction was a “back paddling” attitude, hoping I was doing better. I told him I would be doing a lot better if you had not devalued my vehicle, as this has caused extreme stress.
Yes, a slight brain concussion and major whip lash, so the nausea attacks come after I have to talk with those who want to devalue my vehicle and this upsets me, anyone had this experience yet? Twice now I have equated this mistreatment to my progress. I not one to lick wounds, but come on. I went back to work not to go on disability for lighter duty, but I am having physical issues now…am I alone?
I am in the state of California. But I have found that if you find out and know all your rights, you can get what you deserve. It does take some work on your part, but do it and let’s not let these guys get away with what they are doing to people. They are hoping people don’t know their right and just accept what they are saying AND just go away…
I have a call into the IL Insurance Dept to let them know what I have learned.
CCC is deduction a “Baseline cost” this is only if you purchase the vehicle from a dealer. This is not a “warranty” charge it for prepping the vehicle to get it ready. Now what dealer in their right mind would say, this is the price of the vehicle on the “listed” price and then tell the customer, OH BTW, you need to pay an additional $447 if you want me to change the oil, check it out, wash it, etc. it will cost you like a dealer would not already have the car ready on the show lot..or have any checked out the vehicle. These are charges that CCC Valuescope should be accountable for, besides using vehicles from out-of-state or out of the area and claiming there are with in the 50 mile area…try 70 + miles according to Map Quest.
Thanks everyone, for contributing…I did my homework and will share what I did.
It took time and they want to work you, however that does not mean CCC is right.
Here is what I did and learned what USAA did wrong.
First may I suggest if a representative does not get back to you in a timely manner to give you a quote, ask to speak to the Co-Director or two steps higher. I spoke to a person who has now left the department [so do you think she knew that was going to happen >wink< you and I know that] She played the game with this conversation [paraphrasing] 'Oh, you know USAA would not mistreat a member and that we would never low ball a member' Bla Bla. She never returned my calls, so that made two representatives ignoring the situation, and 8 days later and no phone call. I am dealing with no one but someone who "is assisting on the file."
When I got the very low ball quote>>>>
Here is the question:
How did you come to that amount?
She would not give me an answer, however wanted to know if I got my 11 page evaluaton…I thought WHAT? an evaluation…NO ABSOLUTELY NOT
[here is when I learned USAA had kept the CCC Valuescope from me for over 20 days from the accident]
I called the adjuster, who told me that they had the documentation for 17 days. Why would they not want me to have it? HHHMMM? I would guess they just wanted me to accept $1800 less and go on my merry way. On this conversation I learned from the adjuster also that when he makes a call to the vehicle owner he was told that if someone does not return his call within 2 hours, he is not to call back. [so we are be connected to our phones 24/7 I guess]
Here is when he could have made a fair evaluation if he knew my vehicle was a roller over, but there was no conversation, as no one told me to listen or look for a call from a different area code, and if this person wanted me to know who he was, he could have at least pronounced his name or spelled it on his voice mail. When he learned what my vehicle went through, I wanted to know how he determined there were prior scratches? How ridiculous it was to learn that his determination was based on a few undamaged areas, HAH where? Under the seat? This could have eliminated a week and additional $500 or slightly less to my already devalued vehicle.
My fight…was to substantiate my claim on every area. I provided and faxed 35 pages of my vehicle’s total mechanical history from a licensed dealer from day one. This would eliminate a “reconditioning” [and should have eliminated a baseline deduction of $447 too if I could have known earlier what that ridiculous amount was, maybe the CEO’s vacation plan/or golden parachute >wink
Sarah…just so you know CCC Valuescope was created many years ago by insurance adjusters to have a “baseline” price to go by on totaled vehicles.While doing my research I spoke to one of the creators of this report (who help create it many, many years ago). Insurance companies have now taken it and abused it.
Some of the thing I did:
-took pictures of the car after the accident (from the inside out, top to underneath. This helped me dispute ALOT of what the CCC had to say
-I refused to sign over the title until I was satisfied with the settlement – This meant the insurance company had to pay the salvage yard for all the storage until we settled. And this also meant the salvage yard could not touch the car until I signed it over – if they did the insurance company would be held responsible – that is if I decided to salvage the car
-I filed a formal complaint with the California Department of Insurance.
These are just a few things I did. But most important….DOCUMENT everything…every conversation, phone call, mailing, names, time, employee numbers…EVERYTHING…This was the biggest thing to help me win my case, because I had written every conversation down, my photos helped dispute the CCC report and so on…
It took me 9 months to settle but I got what I wanted…and I also made them pay for the rental car I had during that entire time..
4-2-2014
I am currently going through a hassle with GEICO who used CCC One to value my car for a total loss accident….the value they appraised my car at is around $1000 less than the value I obtained through NADA and other various independent websites…what do I do…I cant seem to get GEICO to have a Claims Rep who has authority to discuss this issue to call me so we can come to an agreeable price?
I’ve been in the insurance biz for 30+ yrs. you do not have to accept what they offer. Tell them you want them to replace the vehicle with the same specs as what you had. Insurance must put you back the way you were before the accident!
I see this was a couple years ago. CCC estimated my vehicle at $5,000 less than NADA nd $3,000 less than the lien holders estimate. What did you end up doing?
Accident on Jan. 12, 2016, with a car only 55 days after purchase. Was stopped at a redlight and rear ended by pick up truck. Both parties insured by USAA. Received initial settlement offer based on CCC ONE valuation and am disputing it.. I reside in Florida, but accident happened in Mississippi. Would appreciate any suggestions. Their offer amounts to 18% depreciation for those 55 days.
Looks like they should of been evaluating it longer then 5 years, they are out to screw all third party claims, they are looking to for people who want quick money in hand and dont care about the value of their vehicle. I reside in IL, was hit by a driver whom has Bristol West, she was ticketed, the insurance company has taken 100% liability. Not only was the price $5,000 off my value, but they are refusing to pay tax, title transfers. They initial evaluation for CCC One was $300 then the value of the vehicle in the poorest condition.
My RV insurance company RLI out of Illinois used CCC to value my total loss motorhome. CCC stated in their Valuation that the amount of $68,000 was the verified amount on the same unit from a dealer in Florida. I contacted the dealer whom sent me the actual bill of sale on the unit…it was $90,800. Where did CCC come up with $68,000? I sent the Bill of Sale copy to the insurance company (total proof) and they are still siding with CCC to screw me out of thousands!!!! I need an attorney
Wow! I thought I was the only one cheated by Allstate Insurance Company using CCC-One. But saw this forum and soon realized there are thousands of people who have been screwed out of millions of dollars! How much longer must this be tolerated? I had a 2000 Toyota Tundra Limited in very good condition until I hit a patch of black ice and totaled the vehicle. I paid $8400 for the vehicle less than three weeks before the accident and in fact, I did not even make my first payment. Allstate using CCC-One offered me $5400 after deductible. The bank loaned on NADA book value of $8400 and to secure their loan they never would have loaned that much if they knew they would never recover their financial risk. But Allstate saved $3000 using the corrupt methodology of this crooked evaluation company. Everytime a write a check out for a “dead horse loan”, I have a bad taste in my mouth for Allstate and CCC-One. Can anyone help stop this insurance industry ripoff?
A February 2016 head-on crash totaled my 2001 Blazer. The other driver was cited. His insurance (Nationwide) sent me a CCC-One report that evaluated all vehicles as “average.” The report says my Blazer was worth 2,708.00. I submitted invoices and receipts for more than 1,200.00 showing that I maintained the Blazer and it was in very good to excellent condition. Nationwide added 92.00. NADA valued the Blazer at 3,850.00. If there is a class action suit, where do I sign up? If there is not a class action suit, how do we get one started?
I’m having the same trouble with Farmers who totaled my 2002 Volvo V70 wagon last week. Vandals broke two windows and the glove box but Farmers deemed it a total loss because it is a 2002 and has high miles. It is, however, in perfect condition. I’ve hired an appraiser and for a couple of hundred dollars in appraiser fees, I expect that my settlement will be substantially higher than Farmer’s CCC low-ball. In prior posts I’ve read about a lot of pain, suffering and bureaucratic paper work that wastes hours. I’d really encourage all who are seeing this post to simply move IMMEDIATELY to a professional appraiser who is licensed in your state and save yourself the heartache. As consumers, we simply do not have the knowledge or skill to successfully negotiate against trained verbal assassins whose sole purpose in life is to settle claims for as little as possible. I am relieved to now have someone in my corner who can deal with “John,” the adjuster from Farmers, who was miserably pedantic, demeaning and bullying during our conversation, yesterday, when he issued their low-ball offer.
I live in Los Angeles. CA. I have Geico INS and they used CCC One to evaluate my 2011 pristine condition Harley Davidson Road glide ultra after it was totaled in a hit and run. . 1 year ago i received a call asking me to switch to Geico and i saved some money but not in the long run ,,at that time i asked the rep how much was my bike covered for in the event of a accident ,and then told her the cost of the bike was 26,000 when i bought it ,and she told me that what ever the blue book value was plus 3000 dollars in accessory coverage so i felt confidant in switching ,, CCC one said my bike was average condition which is a lie i took meticulous care of that bike ,,,and they said the value was 13,999 i have went to Harley Davidson dealer ships and the lowest in great condition i can find is 16,995 and Geico is giving me a prorated amount on my accessories it a joke one example is my tour pac cost 1199.00 they are giving me 119 dollars i have not accepted the offer im still fighting
Did Geico give you the CCC valuation report to see for yourself? In my claim (story above) I was given a report that told of adjustments made but not disclosed so I could not understand what was happening.
Can you email me the CCC report? Send it to sstarkey01@msn so I can examine it.
As an experienced statistician the CCC valuation is highly biased and set up to lower the total loss claim amount. This thread has helped me push back on the other guy’s insurance after my legally parked car was hit. All of the 3 comps the report uses to value my car are not in equal or better condition and the adjustments to make them “comparable” do not line up to what I’m seeing in the market. I spoke with all 3 dealerships, all comparable cars were thousands more then what the CCC adjusted value came to. The Nationwide adjuster mgr said he is sticking to the CCC one amount and will not consider an independent appraisal if I choose to pay for one. I have no choice but to look into legal options. Please let me know if you’re experiencing a similar situation–there’s strength in numbers.
Hi Christine. I had a similar situation recently with my own Liberty Mutual policy. I was able to get them to abandon the CCC report numbers, but it took some effort, and unfortunately it was my policy because the driver that rear ended my vehicle was uninsured, so I was able to threaten to move my other insurance policies. I have a law degree and basically just started to approach the issue as if I were preparing my own class action, after presenting all my local comps that the valuation should have used instead of the ones they did use, I asked the following questions and demanded answers to them.
1. Does the CCC valuation report exclude from consideration for Comp vehicles any vehicle with too high a list or take price?
2. If it does, does it exclude vehicles with too low a list or take price?
3. Please demonstrate the mileage adjustment calculations. I was told that the value per mile is .035, with an average mileage of 118800, my mileage is 87207.
4. Do the three Comp vehicles in my valuation report also have a .035 per mile adjustment value? Please demonstrate the adjustment calculations for those vehicles as well.
The mileage adjustment questions had to do with the fact that I was given a .035 per mile number and couldn’t for the life of me make it work. And the mileage adjustments for the comps I couldn’t even make come to consistent numbers. My lawyers senses were going crazy. The adjuster manager offered to talk to a rep from CCC to go over the numbers with me in the same breath she tossed the report and offered me a boost in offer of nearly 25%. Obviously I had some leverage, but asking very pointed questions about specifics with no room to avoid the question got them to move pretty suddenly after what had been several rounds of “final offer”.
As was mentioned earlier by others, I also wouldn’t turn over possession from the shop until we reached a deal, which seemed to drive them crazy. I imagine I could’ve gotten more from them if I had dug deeper, but this was about two weeks to get them to move.
Once again the ccc market valuation report cuts my trucks value by $2000,00 NADA and Edmonds value my 2005 aviator @ 8,000 with 122,000 miles on it
The insurance company “Nationwide” which was the persons who hit and rolled my truck by running a red light uses this report to hold me a gunpoint and tell me that’s all there going to give me and like it.
The report is comparing my truck to 3 others 1 with 157,911 miles comp 2 114,060 comp 3 168,959 miles comp 2 and 3 are over 100 miles away. plus to top it off the updated listings that were pulled from “auto trader” were dated between 11/29/16 and 12/07/16 and no longer available.. What the H#$%. I thought the insurance is supposed to return you back to whole and give you enough to replace what you lost.
I sent local dealer listings of like vehicles that were year range of 2003 to 2004. there were no 2005 aviators listed because it was a limited production truck 03-05 that was it. So Nationwide sends me this response. “As far as the comparable vehicles go, CCC One will use vehicles that they have inspected as and reviewed all options for as comparables. Outside dealer adds are not used. ”
Outside dealers?? what!!!
Anyway that’s my story, would love to get my additional 2,000 back that there stealing from me
Hi Christine, Bill, David and others. Did you receive a seemingly low valuation from CCC One?
Those of you who have the comps VIN #’s from the CCC One report, if you would be willing to share those VIN’s with me and your vehicle VIN, It may be helpful in the research for a possible class action suit. I had just gone through a total loss claim myself that was undervalued by $4400 so I feel your frustration.
Please reply to this post if you are willing to help.
Mike, I appreciate your idea for another class action lawsuit, but I don’t think it will amount to anything. Even if one gets started I think they will settle out of court again, admit no wrong doing, and the lawyers will get rich-er, while we get maybe a portion of what we think is owed to us.
Mike – We have 8 comps on our CCC report none of which are even close to our car. All 8 are for the wrong ENGINE but 2 of them-the only 2 w. no VIN listed-are falsely listed as the correct engine. Those 2 have fake addresses and fake phone #’s for the dealer. We found the 2 cars with the matching stock# & verified w/ the dealerships that they have the same 8 cycl engine as the other 6 comps. Reply back if you want all the VINS for your research. This is a third party claim and we have no other transportation!
Having the same issue as others through LM. 2 comparables. One comparable had 19k less miles and an adjustment of $1,595. The second had 36k more miles and the adjustment was only $378.
CCC One adjusted the value of each comparable vehicle (all 12) in their total loss value report on my car downward by $961.00 for “The Condition Adjustment sets that comparable vehicle to Normal Wear condition, which the loss vehicle is also compared to in the Vehicle Condition section.” When I questioned the adjuster about this, and told him that I felt it was just an arbitrary figure selected by CCC One to reduce the value of all comparable vehicles, his response was “They deduct the condition rating on all the comparables because the dealers clean them all up to make them in dealer ready condition, so that is why they make the adjustment to normal”, meaning the downward adjustment of $961.00. So because the dealer may wash and vacuum the car before sale, CCC One gets to reduce the value of each comparable by $961.00? Like I said, it seems to me to just be an arbitrary figure by CCC One to benefit their clients, the insurance companies.
Any thoughts on how to respond further on this issue?
Thanks!
I too have/had Liberty Mutual as of an accident the happened on Jan 10th, 2017. We were rear ended and flipped and rolled, as the lady who hit us was doing upwards of 65 mph. She didn’t have enough coverage to cover the two cars she totaled, mine and one in front of us, so we have to go through LM. The adjuster gave us an offer roughly $2000 lower than any comparable prices I found using the same method she said they used, i.e. Autotrader, dealer prices etc. My value was dropped due to age, it was a 2014! I tried using what David (above) said to do but LM refused to budge. They have since threatened to tow the car back to my yard and withdraw the claim. I’ve spoken to three lawyers and they all say the same thing…take the money and they will help me get more from the injury claim. That still doesn’t make it right.
I went through this as well. My question is where is CCC getting the sales prices and details. My model car was listed with an option that simply did not come on the car. Yet somehow, the other cars had this make-believe option and mine did not, so CCC deducted an amount. What fraud! The cars they compared mine to were base models. Mine was loaded. I bought it out of the showroom. So if they, the insurance company, get this information, we, the insured, should be able to know where they came from and be able to VERIFY them. One of the CCC comps was a NO-vin car from a dealership that had been closed for years. So they just made a car up. We are told to believe them on blind faith! Laughable considering these insurance companies pay a lot of money for this program…to save money and cheat their insureds. I am all for a class action lawsuit. And btw, I tried the Maryland Insurance Commission with a trial. I believe the commissioners are in bed with the insurance companies. I guess they need a job on the outside when their commission is over.
Same story Sophia ..
5 out of 10 Comparable vehicles with UNKNOWN VIN Number .. Auction sale prices and 9 out of 10 Comparable vehicles used are a different Make/Model/Trim discounted by 300-800 $ for it in the Adjusted Comparable Price … Comparable vehicles used nowhere to be found on Dealer Websites since they’ve been soled weeks and up to 3 months before I got rear-ended.. I ended up in the emergency room reading these Market Valuation Reports from CCC/GEICO. 2+ Months in to claim negotiations and I will never agree to settle these manipulated CCC ACV !!! Department of Insurance complaint and BBB Complaint for now.. Waiting for a response… Will never give up on this, my “totaled” car was EVERYTHING to me !!!
I am on a similar situation. I cant verify their comps. They arbitrarily decide which car options they allocate a value to, for example heated steering wheel = no value) . My discounted was around 900 but when I look and compared to actual cars that can be verified, the valuation for my car is about 2,000.
It is frustrating that insurance total loss service rep cant see the numbers as they are very clear but because he works for the insurance company he does not want to accept my comps. Very frustrating.
CCC is back to it’s old tricks, offering low ball values to benefit the insurance companies. My vehicle is was valued at $5,250 and CCC has issued a value of $2,818. Another class action lawsuit does need to be filed against them, while they will possible settle, if enough continuation of hitting them in the pockets, may get them to realize that consumers are not going to just sit back and allow them to low ball our vehicles and we take the losses. Independent automobile dealers need to be aware of insurance companies that use CCC One. Here’s why, when your collateral is totaled your customer will receive the low ball estimate, leaving you with an unpaid balance. I know that Ocean Harbor/Pearl Holdings insurance company uses CCC One for their valuations. Beware…… or you will be left holding the bag.
We are getting the same low ball evaluation from CCC.
Options on vehicle were mistakenly !! not reported. Supposedly a data transfer from the FORD VIN number data base. Mileage was deducted at .09 cents per mile way above the .02 cents per mile used by the state sales tax depts. Another section deducted for general condition in additional to the mileage deduction. The mileage deduction is to compensate for ware and tear. A second deduction is abusive.
Looking to join a class action.
I have dealt with a claim through Farmers, using CCC. They valued an older vehicle I drove at around $400, for a total loss claim. They included damage caused by the accident in the price deductions, of course, took a horrendous $600 off for mileage, and $300 more off for the condition of the interior. I had been nice and respectful to the claim representative until that point. I e-mailed them and told them how asinine and illogical it was for them to value the car as though I was looking to sell it in an instant, just like the accident occurred. I said many other reasonable things, in a professional tone, and ended up getting the insurer to double the claim amount, and offer a bit extra for loss of use. That helped, but it still did not equal the actual value of the vehicle, because of course, the vehicle is the center of my working world. Without a running vehicle, it is not always possible to get to and from work (especially when you work 2-4 jobs in a day, with no time to wait for a bus in between).
TIME FOR CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. Proof of Insurance Companies Defrauding Consumers out of Millions: As a prior Fraud Investigator in the Insurance Industry and now an Auto Broker in Colorado, I have uncovered a very disturbing pattern for both CCC valuation and J.D. Powers Total Loss Valuation Reports. The Comps are often SALVAGE TITLED vehicles, selling for thousands below market. CCC and J.D. Powers are both clearly seeking out the lowest priced “Comp.” vehicles in the market, which results in those comps very often being salvage titled vehicles and/or very poor condition pay and drive lot vehicles that are NOT COMPS. Why would they not eliminate all salvage title vehicles before presenting a report, unless they are intentionally seeking to create low-ball total loss valuations to earn and keep the insurance company’s business (saving insurance companies from paying valid ACV claim payouts)
In the past year, more than 15 times, I have evaluated VIN #’s for the alleged Comps on the Insurance Co. provided valuation reports. First I Google the VIN, and I have found the dealer advertised price was higher than what the report says. Then, I look at the pictures for the vehicle on the dealer site, and found vehicles that were in horrific condition. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I then run CarFax and AutoCheck History report on the comp vehicles and routinely find one or more cars are Salvage Titled. In this past week alone, i have found this on 2 out of 2 total loss valuations.
I am in the middle of a Total Loss claim with USAA, using this CCC One to get my adjusted vehicle value, I also Copied and pasted in Google the Comps they came up with, OMG what a bunch of crap! My truck came with a Factory Bose Stereo, their truck had a cassette, mine had newer over sized custom Aluminum Rims with over sized tires, they had a picture with the SPARE tire on the truck , LOMAO! Then they offer me $3,000 Less then that piece of Crap! 3 Comps they have 50, yes 50 LESS Options then my Truck, and they offer me Far Less then the SOLD Comps? USAA says it’s not their Policy to pay for replacement Value? I said It’s not my Policy to find myself on the side of the highway in the rain, waiting for a tow and a ride to the Hospital, because your insured pulled out in front of me hoping to make across 2 very busy lanes of traffic!Sign me Up for the next Law Suite, I will pay $25,000 in Attorney Fee’s this year, Think I care about a few more $1000? NOT
GRANGE WILL RIP YOU OFF. Grange wants to screw me out of $4000.00 on the fair market value of my vehicle based on their CCC One report.
I am currently seeking a good lawyer to represent me or our entire class.
We need to hit them punitive damages because all they care about is thier profit margin and they will continue to rip people off as long as it adds to thier bottom line.
Involved currently with CCC Information Services and a “collision” claim with Allstate. Not surprised to see the “good hands” folks using this outfit. Am surprised at some of the other companies using them (USAA for example). IMO any insurance company using CCC for vehicle evaluations is not a company one should be insured with. PERIOD!
Here is what I found after diving into Allstate’s offer:
No one from Allstate or CCC inspected the totaled car as to its condition.
Allstate had a “captured” body shop give them the car’s Vin #.
CCC found 3 “comparable” vehicles, none of which were available by the time we received the CCC Valuation Report.
They listed 4 items that the totaled car didn’t have; it had all 4 and still has them today.
The CCC Valuation Report is 16 pages of pretty colors. Personally when I see a product like this I knows it is fluff hiding the truth.
There are 2 additional games they play on page 8 of this Report. At the bottom of the page they list “Adjustments.” Here is where their magic is. They show “Options” “mileage” and “Condition”
Options. Look close. They deduct for options that were not even on the car when new.
Mileage. This one shows great imagination. Instead of using nationally a recognized guide such as NADA (sales of actual vehicles nationally) they just make up their own deductions for mileage. In our case, they deducted $2,024 when comparing the totaled car to their 3 comparable. NADA shows a proper deduction of $700.
When I contact CCC for explanation, all I got was BS. “We only use sales from the same state……maybe it’s from the same region……no, maybe it’s from BLA BLA BLA. They claim they send out questionnaires to car dealers to gather the information. When asked what information they request; the BLA BlA again. Ask them if the information they ask is the car dealers opinions, or, is it based on their real sales? They can’t give a straight answer.
Lastly we have “Condition.” Turns out this has nothing to do with the condition of the totaled car or the comparable they used. It should be entitled “conditioning costs.” Yes, they allied a $929 deduction to the totaled car and all 3 comparable under this category. Per CCC this is the amount a car dealer incurs preparing a car for sale on their lot. Are they saying they don’t pay for this cost which is part of the retail cost we pay when buying a car from a dealer? Yep, exactly what they are saying. In other words your insurance company won’t pay the cost of replacing your vehicle from a dealer. Your only option is to buy from a relative or other private party. Since no insurance company anywhere excludes the cost of dealer prep in their policies, this is more crap. As entertaining as that conclusion is, their explanation as to why is even funnier. You see CCC claims that the instant your car is totaled, the “actual cash value” does not include any dealer prep costs because it is not being prepared to be for sale on a dealers lot. How could it; the damn thing is not repairable!!!
I will give CCC a plus for creative claim adjustments but the insurance companies they work for a F. for fraud.
You might also google “CCC Information Services, lawsuits.” CCC had been sued many times for these practices. Even paid more they 8 million dollars in settlement cost on one. It appears they are right back at their old business practices.
You might also file a complaint with your state’s Insurance Commissioner’s Office.
I filed a complaint with the state insurance department. They responded with “the insurance company did nothing wrong.” The basis for that decision is that CCC is not an insurance company and therefore not under department of insurance jurisdiction.
I’m dealing with a CCC report through Geico.
I have a 2012 Infinity G37 with 43k miles. They searched autotrader for the CHEAPEST car with over 91.7k miles (more than double) then adjusted the price up $1300. So they are offering me $14k. When I got to autotrader and search for cars with similar miles I get 16-18k. They are the lowest of the low and I’d love to be in a class-action lawsuit against these scammers.
Geico has been difficult to deal with. Our car was involved in a flash flood after a rain. The Geico adjusters let it sit 14 days before appraising the car. Now I’ve been waiting 3 days asking for them to do comparisons on vehicles around similar mileage.
A real shame as you think a company like Geico would treat their companies better.
The low balling by the three major valuation companies is commonplace and literally can be a license for insurers to steal. When it is “your” insurer doing this you can invoke the appraisal clause in your policy and hire an independent appraiser to represent you and resolve the valuation process. Firms all over the USA do this and earn a living representing vehicle owners to battle with insurers. It is sad that they are needed but insurers often make mistakes that are often really intentional errors. Do your research, get the opinion of an expert. Fees are usually in the $350 to $500 range and you could recover many thousands. Most appraisers don’t take on jobs unless they see at least $1500 left on the table.
My insurer Geico gave me a low ball valuation on 2 totaled auto which forced me to get an appraisal myself. Geico took longer than the month to get their valuation done about 3 months and took exactly 17% off both valuations which is a liquidation value not market value. They were required to use area comps instead used clunkers from States that also suffered from Irma and north east states and not my state of Floridas.They are now responding to a detailed memorandum I gave. But basically they are not reviewing just trying to wear me out. My rental costs have been very high and i wish to hold them accountable as they did not adhere to rules. They have not been ethical with unreasonable delays close to six months. and the low balling and abandoning claims with no response for about 3 month. It seems from my research that they have license to abuse with liquidation values and long delays. I thought the next step was to complain to state. That will only make sense if the state believes low balling and undue delays are reasonable.
Just found out, in Illinois there is a law against the prep fees they are deducting from the value of my car. CCC One even mentions the law in their report.
B) Deductions of the kind commonly referred to as “get ready to go” and “dealer prep”, or dealer preparation, charges are prohibited.”
my car was stolen when i was 1000 miles away from home i had full coverage and gap insurance. i filed a claim and notified my insurance company. two weeks later the sheriff dept. contacted me they found my car and told me what tow company they had pick it up and that i could come get my car. i contacted my insurance and they told me not to that they would move it to a secured storage lot to have their adjuster look at the damages in the mean time i kept calling and emailing insurance and finance company to find out what was going on with my car because the tow company called me and said it was still there. i even had to get the police report and send to insurance company when i thought they already had it because they had told me at first they were waiting for it. i received a email from the adjuster going to look at my car i contacted them and they said they were going that day nov 7th to look at the car. on tuesday after the 7th i tried to call insurance and kept getting voice mail so i emailed her to find out what the damages were and if i could go get my car. i contacted the adjuster that went to look at my car they said they had sent their report to insurance and they should have it. i continued to call my insurance finally got a hold of her thanksgiving week when i asked her what was going on with my car she said what did i want to know i said i want to know if i could go get my car was it fixable or what she said oh they had deemed it a total loss and mind you i haven’t to date received anything in writing from my insurance. so i called my finance company and left a message of the findings of the insurance company. i continued to call and email the insurance company to find out what they were going to pay so i could contact gap or if they contact gap as i had no idea of how the whole process works but didn’t hear anything. i went as far as to call gap myself to find out what the process was. now 5 months later i receive a letter from my creditor saying they sold my car on nov 7th and what i owe and have a repo on my credit report. how can this be my insurance company had my car. finance company states they sold it on the very day the adjuster went to look at the damages. I have no idea of what to do. the finance company never sent me anything either of a sale of my car. i looked into if a car is repo that finance company is to inform you of where and when it is to be actioned. but besides that my car wasn’t repo it was stolen recovered and insurance had it so how could all of this happen
I have filed a small claims 3rd party suit against the at-fault party, sent a demand for payment to them and the adjuster from National General (Direct), after receiving a low-ball appraisal. My hopes are to have the insurance I believe that I am supposed to prove that he is/was liable, which should be simple, but am I expected to defend amounts like the ACV/replacement cost of vehicle, in court? Will the insurance company sent an attorney to be with the at-fault party to defend their appraisal and denial of other payment of other items such as storage to be paid before we reached settlement? Also, if I do get a judgement, do I have to do anything else in order to collect like with arbitration? For example to I have to confirm it as a court judgement(it already is one correct?) and apply for an enforcement order? The at-fault-party lives in a neighboring county in which I filed my suit. I am hoping that the insurance company isn’t up to the fight and will settle before the court date.
The valuation of a total loss is secondary to the central issue here. The personal auto policy insures a specific vehicle, not it’s cash equivalent. The problem arises because most car owners want to take advantage of a T/L situation to buy a different, or newer car. If they would accept an LKQ replacement vehicle, they are made whole and returned to their pre-loss position. That’s what the insurance product is supposed to do. Most loss payee will accept a substitution of collateral so the owner loses nothing. This is a mirror image of settling jewelry claims. It shouldn’t matter what it costs to replace the stone so long as it’s LKQ. In many cases, they want the highest price to convert to cash, not replace the property. If people want a specific guarnteed value, they should pay for a stated value policy.
The cost to replace a like replacement vehicle IS the replacement cost. Period. I would gladly accept the insurance company going out and buying an identical car to the one the at-fault driver destroyed… but that would cost them… wait for it… the same dealer replacement values that the customers would have to spend to buy that same comp off the lot! Yet the insurance companies do not offer this price. So they are not offering to “make whole” a customer with a lowball offer. Period.
When you purchase a vehilce do you ask the dealer for the highest value they will give you? No you ask for a fair deal or best or lowest. ~ so your asking the insurance company to give you the highest value but you turn a raound and buy the cheapest ~
So if you get more / pay less that is a profit ~ a loss is not a profit.
If the insurance company is showing you the research and the research has the same or lesser mileage of your vehilce and all the equipment options ~ how is that not making you whole.
Also you purchase a car lets say for $25,000 out the driveway ~ your car is totalled, 4 years later ~ and you owe $6500. The insurance net settlement after your $500.00 deductible is $6700.00 your upset because the insurance company has to pay your lien holder ~ to get the title~and you get the balance of $200.00~most people feel no this is wrong!! Why? you have insured the vehicle not the loan ~ plus the insurance company is paying off your . Before the loss you had a car with a loan balance.
it is nearly impossible to find an exact car ~ for mileage alone ~ and if an insurance company ofered you one ~ I guarantee no one would be happy ~ the color is not the same,the seats dont feel like my car did~ Consumers have a misconception of what the actual scope of the insurance.
Insurance Co’s should pay the average NADA price that auto dealers expect to get and buyers expect to buy, with adjustments for mileage and options. When my car was totaled, by an 95 yo neighbor, Liberty Mutual paid my $1,200 less than the NADA price by using an “Insurance company only” appraiser named CCC One. It’s really no different than me having my brother appraise my car. He would have my interests at heart, because he is my brother. There needs to be a 3rd party with no financial stake.in the tranaction and NADA or KBB would be better.
You are wrong on so many points. Insurance policies insure property for its “actual cash value.” When the policy doesn’t define “ACV” look to the courts who probably have. In a perfect market the ACV is the cost of the exact vehicle in the same condition as the one totaled; it’s as simple as that. Since the market is not perfect, I agree most people buy a different car; make, style, age, etc. That is the insured’s choice and has nothing to do with what the policy promises. One shouldn’t have to purchase a stated value policy to get their insurance company to pay them the amount of money it would take to duplicate the car they insured; simple as that. I will guarantee you that no insurance company will pay one cent more that the cost of duplicating the insured vehicle!!
Your jewelry example. I also found your example to be another case of an insurance company not paying what they owed. Let’s take these examples. You have a rare and collectable car which you could sell for $100,000. Not wanting to fight with your insurance company, you insure with a stated value policy and pay $5,000 in annual premium. The car is totaled and you expect to get and do get $100,000 in settlement. You also insure a diamond ring that you paid $50,000 for so you insure it on a Jewelery Floater that is added to your homeowner policy at the cost of an additional $1,200 in premium. The ring is destroyed. Your HO company offers you $23,000 for it because they have an agreement with a specific jeweler to discount the piece because the insurance company promises to replace all jewelry on claims with the a same jeweler. In both cases the insurance premium you paid is based on the amount you insured the item for (car or ring). So in the case of the ring you paid premium to cover the cost you paid; $50,000 but they only pay our $23,000. Who is getting the golden screwdriver here? The insurance company obviously charge you too much to insure the ring.
In most cases the policy belongs to the owner of the other car. A stated value policy is not possible if someone else is the policy holder. In my case, the insurance never offered an LKQ vehicle. They only offered a check.
I’ve been in the claims business for 40 years and done everything from work the street to regional claim mgr.and have seen this industry run into the ground by the bean counters.
I had a suburban totaled in Georgia several years ago and CCC did the original estimate. What a joke. After months of back and forth I settled the case for many thousands more than it would have cost them had they done their job right the lst time. CCC lst est was around $14,000 for a decked out Sububan. They paid about $24,000 before it was over.
As we pass off our job duties to others who think it can be done on a computer with little or no expense, the law suits keep adding up. The real loss however is in reputation, not even the people we insure like the claims departments anymore and that’s something the presidents and CEO’s seem to care nothing about.
Tom, agree 100%. I started in the insurance claims business in 1967. The company requirement of adjusters was; pay every claim like the insured is your grandmother, and “the only good claim is a closed claim.” Every year insurance companies have gotten worse and worse.
Tom, can insurer be held responsible to insured’s own valuer if the insurance company appraiser was inaccurate about the car, claimed to have inspected at residence when autos were not at residence and failed to date or sign the valuations . I am a specialized real estate appraiser myself with extensive litigation, expert witness expertise and such omissions, discrepancies, misdeeds would discredit totally. Can i do a valuation myself. I am not a disinterested third party but the owner, the Geico adjuster is not disinterested third party either.Any advice. I am not desperate to settle and believe that GEICO is being reckless especially with the low balling.
I had an accident about a year and a half ago. This was a faily new (50 weeks old)Eddie Bauer Expedition with only 12,000 miles on it. When I looked around to replace the vehicle with it’s equivilent, the CCC valuation wasn’t even close. My truck was decked out and had always been kept pristine. (I’m just very particular about my vehicles).
I ended up being hassled, by my own company, over “condition”. Turns out that anything that didn’t just get hit as it was rolling off the lot is automatically “fair” or “average” condition. It’s never in “good” or “excellent” condition. I have to tell you, I’ve seen a lot of vehicles over the years that are that same age. Some are barely fit to be ridden in, others (like mine) look brand new unless you look at the odometer.
After finally producing car wash receipts showing that it had been washed 50 times over the past 50 weeks, they finally agreed to “good” and we at least got close.
The vehicles that they were touting as comps? Those were vehicles that had already been sold, for far less than their advertised price, based on some negotiation and we not available for sale. When I attempted to purchase a comparable vehicle, the dealers laughed at the amount that I was offering. For what they offered I could buy a significantly less equipped vehicle, or one that was significantly older.
The real zinger? Rental car coverage stops the day they determine settlement. Not the date that I agreed to it, not the day that I received the check (that would take about another week as they cleared liens, etc…, as the lienholder would NOT accept a substitution of vehicle)…. this rather eliminates the luxury of spending a few days looking for an appropriate replacement and negotiating a price.
Ultimately, I accepted a compromised amount and bit the bullet and bought a new truck. At least new vehicle prices were down for Ford trucks last April! Now I have another year of car payments I didn’t want, a newer vehicle (which I really didn’t need or want to buy)and a shaky feeling about the claims process with my own company…. one that I’ve bragged about for years.
The folks who handled the claim were good folks and just doing what they were supposed to, but they were relying on data from CCC that I consistently get complaints about. I used to dismiss these as malcontents until I went through the process of trying to purchase one of their “comps”.
I hate to say it, but I’m glad to see that they got sued this time. I usually hate these sort of things.
I also had a total loss last year and the original estimate was from CCC. While I was waiting for the company to make their settlement offer, I did my own research. Mine was an older car (almost 10 years) and the CCC estimate was based on auto trader magazine and newspaper ads. I countered with blue book and dealer prices that I found and we reached a compromise.
CCC should be used as a benchmark or starting point for negotiations. The insurance company is ultimately responsible for what they offer and the insured is responsible for what he accepts. Companies should be willing to give a litte for good customers. If it’s your 3rd accident in 2 years, don’t expect any favors. And 3rd party claims are another story.
I’ve worked with many different insurance companies all using CCC as an evaluation source. What many insurance professionals forget is they still need to think. By relying solely on the value CCC produces mistakes can easily be made. It’s a tool, a tool to make an evaluation. More often than not it DOES reflect an accurate market value. There are occasions when adjustments need to be made and it’s up to the adjuster to do so. Adjusting claims is an art, if not we could turn it over entirely to computers. Certainly that wouldn’t be fair. Too many people don’t fully understand their insurance policy, the claims process, and the extent a vehicle depreciates over time. For someone who understands those things more often than not CCC should be right on.
My car was classified as “total” by my carrier in 1999. How can I be sure that CCC did the original estimates?
My vehicle was totaled. Can I check somewhere to see if CCC did the original estimates?
The key to Bill Nagy’s comment is LKQ — like, kind, and quality. I work with dealers and vehicle brokers across the country who buy and sell cars every day, and we designed our Like Exchange(tm) program to help insurers and consumers cost effectively replace damaged and total loss vehicles with truly equivalent ones. “Truly equivalent” are the operative words here.
The problem with any traditional replacement program is that the insured still has to go through the car purchasing experience. Insurers call around to dealerships to find a similar car and then send their customers out to look at them. Unlike the customer who knows EXACTLY what equipment it had and the condition it was in, insurers aren’t checking with the dealer to ensure that the vehicle had never previously been damaged or had any other type of adverse history. We worked with one situation in which the insurer insisted it could replace a particular total loss vehicle for $16,800. The broker told the insurer it could not be equivalently replaced for less than $18,100. The insurer insisted that it had found an area car for $16,800. Turns out the broker had been present at the auction when that very car was sold with a frame damage announcement, and it simply was not equivalent to the insured’s pre-accident vehicle.
Additionally, if the vehicle is financed, the financing entity has to approve the substitution of collateral. It can be difficult obtaining bank approval for the substitution, and banks typically treat these situations as new loans requiring new credit approval, rather than as what it really is — a substitution of collateral.
Anyone interested in a truly comparable vehicle replacement program can contact http://likeexchange.com
you do not detail if this is a first or third party claim. If it is your insurance company please review your policy under the appraisal area. I have had extemely good sucess helping consumers.
I AM CURRENTLY TRYING TO SETTLE WITH MY INSURANCE COMPANY AT THIS TIME. I HAD A T/L FOR MY EDDIE BAUER EXPEDITION AND THEY WANT TO PAY ME A SIGNIFICANTLY LESS AMOUNT FOR THIS VEHICLE D/T CCC. KELLEY BLUE BOOK AND NADA BOTH RECORD A HIGHER AMOUNT SHOULD BE PAID FOR THE SAME VEHICLE THAT I HAD. TITAN WANTS TO SETTLE WITH ME BASED ON THE CCC PRICE. I HAVE REFUSED TO SETTLE AND I HAVE BEEN NEGOTIATING WITH THEM FOR 3 WEEKS NOW. I REFUSE TO SETTLE FOR A LESSER AMOUNT. IT IS NOT THE MONEY, IT IS THE PRINCIPLE.
since they are your insurance company, check out your wording under the appraisal process. take titan right out of the picture. My experiences with the appraisal process against either ccc or adp has been very favorable. e-mail me your # and we can talk.
I am in the process of trying to settle a total loss claim where my insurance company has used CCC to do the evaluations and they have under valude the vehicle by $3 to 4 thousand dollars.
My e-mail is autodamageconsult@att.net, contact me and i will explain generally how an appraisal process works under your insurance contract.
HOW DO WE GO ABOUT HAVING OUR TOTAL LOSS CLAIM INVESTIGATED. MY INLAWS CAR WAS TOTALED IN JULY AND THEIR SETTLEMENT WAS TOTALLY UNFAIR. THE INSURANCE COMPANY AMEX, WOULDN’T WAIVER IN THE SETTLEMENT! THE BIGGEST ARGUMENT…4 TIRES PURCHASED 3 WEEK PRIOR TO THE ACCIDENT FOR $300. THEY GAVE $45. TOTAL FOR THE TIRES AND WOULDN’T GIVE ANYTHING ELSE. THE COMPS THEY USED HAD 78,000 MILES, INLAWS CAR 28,000 AND GAVE ON 856. FOR MILEAGE. THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN REPLACE THEIR CAR LKQ FOR WHAT AMEX IS GIVING THEM.
my e-mail is autodamageconsult@att.net,you do not say if this claim is being paid for under their insurance policy or the other at fault carrier. Send me your number and i will call you. Maybe i can help.
I was also insured by AMEX and ccc did a valuation on my car. It blue books for over $6000 but they valued at $2400. I refused to settle and I am hiring an attorney. I put new tires, brakes and alignment about 6 weeks before the accident and 2 weeks prior, I also spent $1250 on a new ac compressor & expansion valve. none of that is being considered and neither are any of my comp vehicles.
Sharon, an attorney is one option, a potentially somewhat lower cost option when you do not agree with the value is the appraisal clause in your policy.Send me an e-mail @ autodamageconsult@att.net with a contact # and i would be glad to speak with you.
I am curentally in negotiations with Allstate regarding my Truct which was totaled by an allstate customer.
What is the best way to negotiate a better settlement from Allstate while they are using the CCC valuation system?
CCC did my valuation in 2003. How do I get included in the class action suit.
Local market valuations are often unreliable. For example, CCC and ADP valuations of the exact same car (VIN) in West Virginia differed by more than $1,000 for 45% of the cars and more than $2,000 for 15% of the cars. Even CCC valuations of the exact same car (VIN) can differ by $1,000 and more. Statistically speaking, CCC valuations are generally $900 to $1,200 lower than ADP valuations. Not surprisingly, most insurers choose CCC to value your car. Also bear in mind that, if you are a 3rd party claimant (the party not at fault for the accident), a Baltimore law firm advises that insurers have no duty of good faith and fair dealing in settling your claim. For a few tips to help you verify that your settlement check reflects the customary and reasonable cost of replacing your car, visit inusa.com/trueloss/index.htm
. . . why aren’t companies like CCC and insurance companies who use CCC’s fraudulent valuations to base their offers for totaled vehicles prosecuted for insurance fraud for low-balling valuations–especially when consumers/victims can well document the current condition of their vehicle ?
In fact, why don’t we define the word FRAUD. One website, http://www.dictionary.com defines fraud as:
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3.
A. One that defrauds, a cheat.
B. One who assumes a false pose; an imposter.
This is exactly what CCC Information Services, their customer insurance companies, and the insured drivers of these companies are doing to twice victimize consumers all over the country.
I am currently involved in a third party claim with an insurance company located in Phoenix, AZ., that is using a CCC valuation. While I was in stop-and-go traffic, an 18-wheel gravel truck plowed into a Tahoe; the Tahoe plowed into a Frontier pickup; the Frontier then plowed into me. The Frontier’s front bumper ended up even with my shattered rear window. In other words, the front end of the Frontier was sitting in my trunk. The police report found the 18-wheeler driver at fault, stating the drive failed to maintain a safe speed.
I am going round-and-round with an insurance company located in Phoenix, AZ. Initially, the insurance company based their offer one of CCC’s fraudulent valuations that claims to have used comparable vehicles located in Phoenix, AZ and surrounding counties. The problem is, I live in Texas! I pointed this out in one of my letters, and I pointed out the fact that the CCC valuation states that, per information given to them by the insurance company, the valuation is based on my home town zip code. I don’t know or care whether the valuations in Phoenix are worth more or less than the valuation in Texas; the fact is, someone from the insurance company or CCC Information Services falsified insurance documents to obtain a fraudulent valuation based on vehicles in Phoenix, and not Texas! Just based on this single attempt to defraud me, it seems I should be able to pursue both the insurance company AND CCC for fraud.
In yet another letter to the insurance company, I pointed out the fact that each of CCC’s fraudulent valuations makes note that per Arizona laws, a consumer can be prosecuted for trying to inflate claims, while CCC fraudulent valuations failed to mention any consumer protection laws such as the Texas Deceptive Trade Practice Act, or portions of the Texas Insurance Code related to fraud!
CCC also based both of their fraudulent valuations (1st one based on comparable vehicles in Phoenix, the 2nd one based on vehicles in Texas) on a base model 1997 Altima, while mine is a 1997.5 GXE Altima; yet each of CCC’s fraudulent valuations continue to list non-1997.5 GXE models as comparable vehicles. The 1997.5 has additional safety features that both the insurance company in Phoenix and CCC refuse to acknowledge. That is, they refuse to acknowledge that these additional safety features increase the valuation. I also faxed the insurance company over 50 pages of receipts and documents related to my vehicle (including a copy of a portion of the original window sticker that identified it as a 1997.5 vehicle). I kept my vehicle well maintained and many of the parts replaced on the vehicle were lifetime warranty items from Autozone, O’Reilly’s Auto Parts, and Pep Boys, as well as recently replaced A/C compressor, new struts (last summer), but the insurance company, based on the CCC valuation, refuse to make any valid offer for my vehicle.
In one of the letters to the adjuster, I pointed out that one of two things happened: 1) either he failed to submit the 50+/- pages of documentation to CCC before they did their valuations and they ignored it, or 2) he simply DID NOT SUBMIT the 50+/- pages of documentation to CCC.
The limit in small claims court in Texas is $5,000. The Loss of Use, tax, title, and license fees, damaged personal property in the vehicle, and towing and storage fees exceeds $5,000. This doesn’t include past, current or future medical bills related to this accident.
I don’t think I can pursue them using the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act–but it would be nice. Are there any class action lawsuits going on in Texas against CCC Information Services and Companies who use them? If there are, could someone tell me who to contact?
I did my class action filing on line & have not had any reply,did I do something wrong?
Bill Nagy needs to understand that the general population aren\’t idiots. I know the value of my vehicle when I purchas it, I know the value is less six years later. Blue Book has a hand little section to type the mileage into so that\’s considered as well as places to include the extras. CCC are low level mobsters working for the adjustors who have whored themselves for a job. They\’ll put back a single mom with one vehicle in a corner demanding that she take at least 30% less than her vehicle is worth and guess what? She has to grab it just to hurry to get a cheap ride to work. No offense Bill, but your post is somewhat presumptious and condescending.
Why can\’t all of us file yet another class action suit against CCC? Any ideas?
Now it\’s 2006 and my totalled car is being significantly undervalued by CCC. Anyone up for starting another class action suit?
Carla, The millions paid out by this class action lawsuit is a slap on the wrist as compared to the huge savings generated by CCC as a third party administrator for insurance companies to determine actual cash value. I have done many appraisal clauses (for insureds) before the settlement and after and my opinion is little has changed. I e-mailed the law firm to ask who is the court appointed monitor with no response. You do not state whether you are an insured or not and if you are i recomend you reading your policy under the appraisal area, if your not best of luck.
I am going to court on 04/10/05 to fight this valuation with the insurance company using their services. Is there any adivce from anyone who has gone against this in court?
I work in the auto finance world. I deal with total losses daily. When I hear that a particular insurance company uses CCC reports, I cringe. They are bogus as far as I am concerned. There is a reason an insurance company uses them…to pay as least amount of maney as possible. I recently totalled my Nissan Altima. The came up with $6400 value, NADA shows $7700…I argued the value by supplying local replacement figures and NADA…and upped the settlement sligtly. I was not happy. Before buying Insurance, ask what valuation the company uses and research the car\’s value before any purchase.
Hi Carla,
Sign me up…where are the \”monitors\” they have watching over the CCC reports..they used local market values of cars 75 miles away from my address…It is a joke…there have been no changes in the 5 years Ive been working on claims…Pull up ads from local dealers, pull NADA, official software is better than website…Kelly Blue Book, and Fight away, remember who is the customer? You Are!
Now that I know CCC did my original estimate on my 2 totaled autos where is the loot? Not to mention I had a defecit that put me in a great bind to pay off. Oh yes I want to know where is the loot? Will someone respond with the answer? Thanks.
I have only one question pertaining to CCC doing my original estimate on my auto that was totaled in 1999. Where\’s the $$$$$? Please respond? Thanks.
I recently was offered an offer for my toyota sequa that was way less than the market around me-( ccc said it was about 29,100 )they went as far as 200 miles away )
on the average my toyota thru autotrader.com was 32,689.00 ( 100 miles)
the closer to my home the more it was worth )Mercury insurance says i cant sue my own insurance company- all i can do is go to section 2 of my policy-
I am willing to join a class action lawsuit as i have all my paperwork in hand.
Roland, seems like your ins. Co. has drawn the line in the sand on the ACV of your Toyota. I am guessing they have pointed you to the appraisal clause. I suggest you read it and have it handy. My e-mail is autodamageconsult@att.net. Send me your contact # and i will contact you. I have done many appraisal clauses for consumers like you against CCC
I filed a claim with the class action lawsuit. I have not heard anything back. I did go to the website and see that there was a settlement. Does anyone know about how much we should expect to get back.Thanks.
I am in a 4+ month battle with Farmers Insurance regarding the value of my total-loss vehicle. Farmers is using CCC for the valuation.
CCC is systematically falsifying data in their comparable analysis to lower valuations. My car is an Acura Integra GSR, completely stock. I inquired about all of the alleged GSR comparables in CCC\’s report, and NONE of them were actually GSR models. They were all low-end RS/LS models falsely represented as GSRs. It wasn\’t just a few – a total of 10 alleged GSR vehicles were falsely represented! Additionally, CCC was only adjusting about $700 between a RS/LS model and a GSR. When questioned by the Washington State Insurance Commissioner, Farmers replied that according to CCC, the only differences between the RS/LS and the GSR is alloy wheels and a \”trim package.\” Well I\’m sorry, but a VTEC engine is not \”trim\” !! There are many performance differences in the GSR with a much greater difference in value compared to the low-end RS/LS.
CCC and all of the complicit insurance companies that buy their services should lose their business license in every state. It is an on-going nation-wide CRIME. Nearly a year after the lawsuit CCC is still committing FRAUD. Seems to me we need a followup lawsuit, where nobody settles, and CCC and the insurance buddies get their rear-ends nailed to the wall, ENRON-style.
On May 26, 2006 I had an auto accident which was not my fault.
The owner of the other vehicle had AIG Insurance who, of course, uses CCC for their claims.
Their first offer for my vehicle was $3575.11. I told them they were crazy and insisted on copies of all of the condition reports, valuation reports, and all of the other supporting paper trail upon which they had based their decision. They stalled and hemmed and hawed. I held my ground.
When I finally got the CCC Valuescope report it was comical. They based the value of my vehicle on 2, TWO! comparables which were not even the same as my vehicle. My truck was a 2000 Mazda SE (midline model). They based the value on an SX (base, strippy, strippy model.)
I held my own and told them that the number they were offering to me was totally unacceptable. I provided ten comparables to support my position.
A week later they raised their offer to $5335.02. Again I told them that their number was too low and that I had comparables to support it.
AIG sent me a second CCC Valuescope report which was still filled with errors. Again, 8 of their comparables were not even the same as my truck. They totally ignored the comparables that I had provided because, even after mileage and equipment adjustments, they averaged $7300.
I sat down and typed up a \”nice\” letter indicating to them that it was obvious that they were undervaluing my vehicle in an blatant attempt to cheat me. I gave them a deadline (three days out) to get right on their settlement offer or I would take the matter to court. I communicated all of this to the Policy Holder because under GA law I would have to sue her personally.
On the Tuesday morning of deadline day (per my attorney\’s instructions) I faxed to AIG as well as to the Policy Holder the completed Small Claims Court paperwork and all of my supporting documentation from the police report on.
At 5:30pm we settled on a number that suited me.
I held out until they got to $6820.
I guess the lesson I learned is to be tenacious and prepared.
Get your background paperwork.
Know your vehicle!! Probably most important.
Verify their paperwork. Make them share it with you.
As I explained to AIG, I worked a lot of long hard hours to pay for that truck anc I was not about to let them just take it from me without a fight.
Manny,
In theory I agree with you.
Reality though is quite different.
If you had been in my shoes I think that you would have seen things a bit differently.
No, I am not guilty of insurance fraud. On the contrary, AIG and CCC were, in my humble opinion attempting to commit collusion at the least and fraud at the worst.
They, again in collusion with one another, attempted to get me to accept $3575.11 as a settlement for a vehicle which I easily documented as being worth over $7600.00. Remember I had verifiable comparable vehicles which supported this valuation position. They, on the other hand, had nothing to support their position because they were not using vehicles which matched. They were attempting to use vehicles which were only \”similar.\”
I eventually settled with them for only $6820.00 because of my unwillingness to continue to drag the matter on and on. It had already been 34 days and quite frankly I was sick and tired of it.
I could have easily sued their policy holder for just shy of $14 thousand dollars including rental bills and storage fees. If they had not settled with me by the deadline I had set then that is exactly what I would have done.
So, yes you are right when you say \”what goes around comes around\” but you can also apply \”caveat emptor\” (buyer/consumer beware) to the situation as well.
Anyone who has ever, or ever will, deal with an insurance company needs to understand that those dealings are adversarial by their very nature. The insurance companies are not on the side of the consumer. They are out for themselves and if you think that the old fashioned values of fair dealings and even handedness in business still exist in dealings with insurance companies then you are sadly mistaken.
Being in collusion with companies such as CCC simply stacks the deck that much further against the policy holder.
I sincerely hope that you are never in a similar situation and, if you are, then you will be able to negotiate a fair settlement without too much difficulty.
The best advice I can offer to you or anyone else is to be aware, be prepared, and be determined not to be taken advantage of.
As my Mom always told me, \”be sure to always stand up for yourself because you can bet that no one else will do it for you.\”
There is no perfect system that will satisfy everyone involved.
Insurance fraud is the #2 white collar crime in the US next to income tax invasion. Who has not tried to profit from insurance because of his loss? Remember that basic insurance principles state that the insured should neither benefit nor lose but be made whole again. No more no less.
The legal system is being trampled with bogus inflated claims whether they are property or injury. The only thing that is for sure is that the law firms are the beneficiaries.
CCC\’s system is definitely not perfect.
Does anyone know of a perfect system? Something that will award the insureds the most money you say? Well the insurance companies will not lose out and everyone will lose out in the end with policy premiums rising.
It\’s an us vs. them mentality when dealing with insurance claims. How will we ever find a solution when the parties are biased from the beginning?
My philosophy is that whatever I do good or bad, I will be rewarded accordingly.
The law of averages does not discriminate. Sooner or later it will catch up with everyone.
Aubrey,
Apparently May 26, 2006 was a bad day. I was also involved in an accident, which was not my fault.
Since my car is over 38 years old and difficult to find, my car was also (in my opinion) undervalued by CCC Valuescope. My car does run very well. The problem I have is my car does have over 300,000 miles on it and even though the body has no damage or rust, the vinyl top has “rotted” off and the paint is pretty messed up. The interior is also very worn out. Before the accident, I had several offers of over $6,000 for my car “as is”. Now CCC Valuescope (based on the information my insurance company gave them) has valued my car at $1,477. After telling my insurance company that I had just installed a new stereo, they adjusted the value to $1,932.
I have spent several hours on the Internet looking for any vehicle anywhere that is even close to what I was offered and found none.
If anyone has any suggestions as to what I can do to resolve this, it would be appreciated.
Now for the sympathy factor, this is my first car and I have owned it for almost 30 years. So it means a lot to me.
My advice is to complain to your state insurance commissioner, and get an appraisal. Many insurance policies have an \”appraisal option\” which requires both parties to hire their own appraiser, and then the two appraisers hash it out and any disagreements are settled by an umpire. This has a binding outcome, though, so you may want to either get your own appraisal or press your insurance company to appraise it before you invoke that clause. Good luck! Don\’t let CCC get away with fraud…. again.
Thank you for your time and advise. I will look into this.
CCC valuations are still bogus. Next time you have a claim, ask your adjuster which insurance company do they use? Ask them to run their cars value on the CCC their insurance company uses. It is simple we need to ask the Insurqance company before getting coverage what system do they use…in CT, they must, by CT Law average 2 different systems. This is at least more fair…For anyone in Massachusetts, Commerce uses N.A.D.A. exclusively. This to me seems the most fair as far as replacement value for your car. That is the definition of ACV…\”replacement value.\”
So see what your adjusters have to say if they where in your shoes…remember too, \”you are their customer…you pay the monthly premium.\”
Good Luck and let me know if any other class action lawsuits…my date of loss 3/14/06 and I would definately be in!
what world does this person live in?
Are you an adjuster? Seems as if you don\’t get it…Every one living in THIS world wants to be treated fairly, and these insurance companies make promises to do just that…\”outstanding, fair claims service.\” What exactly do they mean by that? If you can prove your car has more value than a CCC report, through comparable vehicle sales in your area and comparable valuation systems…they should be able to work with their customer on total loss settlements. I have seen it done by many and applaud those adjusters that do work with their customer\’s. This is a huge issue, as I work with in this field every day.
Hope when your time comes you dont get screwed.
I posted a comment back in November. We finally went to court on June 23, 2006. In Colorado the defendant has to right to be represented in court by the insurance company\’s council. That is exactly what happened. This attorney was very tricky. I had obtained a professional independant appraisal of my 1991 ford explorer which had a new engine and transm/clutch, this appraisal came out to $2500. The insurance company offered me $1271 originally. The attorney called me to tell me that his witness would nto be able to be in court and they planned to bring in a sworn statement from him. This was his tricky move. When we went to court, knowing that the defendant would not have the witness that prepared the comparable inspection prepared for CCC, I did not have my witness that prepared my appraisal (this would cost me more), I had it notarized, but no one in court to argue anything else but my comparables and appraisal.
Needless to say, the defendant showed up with his witness, leaving me no witness to counter with. The judge felt that the defendant prepared better and gave them a judgement of only $200 more than they originally offered (however lower than an offer of $1700 they came up with 3 weeks before our court). It cost $2700 to repair my car to the condition before the accident, and she only gave me $1417.
During my preparation I wanted to tear this valuation report apart, but my husband thought that our appraisal was good enough. Don\’t ever think that. Afte the court I tried to contact some of the comparables that were listed. I actually got some of the people on the phone with the number listed, turns out only 2 our of 6 had actually listed 91 explorers for sale. The other 4, I contacted the paper to get a copy of the date they refered to in the valuation comparables. The other 4 were not even valid. I tried to contact the judge to see if this was grounds for an appeal, or if she could consider this information and maybe reconsider her decision. She never replied to me within my 60 days to appeal. So needless to say, I got screwed once again.
Moral to this story..Check all comparables, call the phone number listed to try to prove the validity of the comparable. And, if you do go to court be prepared for everything, Don\’t assume anything.
If anyone has information on how I can still go after this insurance company (ANPAC American National Pacific and Casualty). I wonder if I can now go after them with a claim of fraud, since they use and depended on the CCC valuations. I am in the state of Colorado, so I am not sure of what I can do at this point. I have tried to contact the Insurance commissioner about this and they sided with the insurance company based on the Courts decison. They say that the court had the evidence to decide upon, not them.
Sherri,
I am not an attorney so I can\’t speak about the court issues, but it sounds like consulting with an attorney would be a good idea if you want to pursue it further.
However, I would definitely recommend \”tearing the valuation apart,\” as you put it, in every case. In my recent case, I found that 10 vehicles in my CCC valuation were falsified. The CCC valuations have the appearance of being thorough and are daunting to go through, so too many people don\’t check it out.
I complained to my state insurance commissioner, who told Farmers\’ Insurance to fix it. Farmers came back with a new CCC valuation that was $100 greater. The Insurance Commissioner thought this was great and responded to me that it was fixed. However, I went through the new valuation, and found that the only thing CCC/Farmers did was shuffle the comparables around remove a few of the lower priced ones to result in a higher average and a new looking valuation report. However, nearly all 10 of the falsified vehicles from the previous report were still there. I had to litterally plead with the Insurance Commissioner to get them to see they had been duped and eventually they agreed with me and put the pressure back on Farmers. Eventually Farmers put the CCC valuations aside and just had an appraisal done, which increased the settlement offer by $2800, a 55% increase, which I accepted.
Farmers was cited for violations of state law because of the falsified CCC valuation reports. If everybody would scrutinize their CCC reports and complain to their state insurance commissioners, then maybe, just maybe, the insurance compainies would quit using CCC. But for now, they continue to find it all too easy to bamboozle their customers with the low-ball CCC reports based on falsified information.
Just received my CCC Valuation via Geico for a thrid party claim in GA.
2 of the 4 cars listed don\’t seem to exist – they were both linked to a car dealer in a small town near an Army base.
BUT – GA DMV didn\’t have the VINs – Nor did they have any record of a Dealer License for the company name.
Of course, the adjuster missed almost every option on my car. But she did catch minor wear and tear on almost every inch of the car.
You\’d think if she was looking that critically, she\’d notice things like heated seats, a nav system and giant alloy wheels.
So I\’m waiting for Geico to ask CCC to address these issues. According to 2nd tier adjuster, \”We don\’t come up with this data so I don\’t know what to tell you.\”
I told him that it became his data the moment he turned it over to me and made it the basis for my valuation.
We \”decided\” that there must be some problem with CCC and that he\’d look into it. At one point he actaully suggested that I look into it myself.
I pointed out that CCC wasn\’t my preferred vendor — and that I wasn\’t their customer. He finally dropped the idea.
He concluded our conversation by explaining that whatever number CCC cooked up for round 2 was it.
I needed to understand that we weren\’t negotiating – no. That the valuation wasn\’t an offer. No, the valuation was the law. Period.
And no one can just change laws can they? Not me – and certainly not Geico.
I almost asked him what the \”fill in the blank\” fields on the last page labeled \”settlement values\” were for — but I had heard my quota of lies for a Wednesday.
The funny part is that the offer wasn\’t too bad. If they hadn\’t left so much off of my car, I might have taken it. Who knows what 4 comps they\’ll dig up now?
Kris: You really need to file a complaint with your Department of Insurance and with your Attorney General\’s Consumer Protection Division. The fact that an insurance company is adopting the false valuations of an outside vendor certainly looks like fraud the DOI should know about. The fact that a vendor is selling false information to an insurer affecting your rights as a consumer is something your AG should know about.
Too often, the DOIs claim they have never had any complaints from consumers about this type of behavior — so make certain yours knows about CCC\’s listing of two \”comparable\” vehicles that don\’t exist from a dealer that doesn\’t exist.
I thought of forwarding the info the the State, too. It wouldn\’t do anything for my situation but it would be documented.
The more I research CCC and how INS companies use their valuations, there\’s one thing I\’ve noticed — but haven\’t seen abyone else pick up on.
Insurance carriers SWEAR there\’s no such thing as DV – yet CCC boasts of their ability to lower valuations because they have partnered with vendors like CARFAX.
My CCC valuation had hints of a previous claim and repair – but nothing concrete and no deductions were made.
The CCC selling point to insurance companies being — lower valuations based on real vehicle histories.
So INS Co will lower the value of repaired vehicles when valuating ACV for loss — but ignore the info when valuating a non-loss claim.
Pretty sure the language of the law makes it possible, but it\’s unfair to apply what amounts to a double standard.
And it\’s crazy to hear CEOs claim that there is NO SUCH THING as DV.
Which reminds me, I still have to finish my DV claim for the 2005 collision on my now totaled vehicle.
I need a paralegal to keep up with all this…
Any form letters or templates whould be appreciated….and if anyone wants a copy of my CCC valuation, let me know.
Kris,
I am sorry to hear that you are having issues with CCC. It all sounds so very familiar to me.
Contrary to what you have been told, since you have a third party claim, the valuations they are offering to you are not \”the law\” if you can prove that you are being screwed.
I went through this same wringer back in June. (See my posts here.)
If you can prove that your vehicle was undervalued ie missing options etc then document, document, document.
CCC actually was trying to value my vehicle based on the basic strippy model rather than the mid range better equipped model that it actually was.
CCC included multiple vehicles which may have existed at the time the information was gathered but they certainly were nowhere to be found when I tried to verify them.
Get this. When I balked at their original valuation, they generated a new one which, if you can even imagine it, included my own vehicle as a comparable (at their ridiculously low value of course).
They also dinged me on condition even though the truck was immaculate.
I took the advise of my lawyer and went down to Magistrate Court and got the necessary forms for filing a suit. I completed the forms and then faxed them to both the insurance company as well as their policy holder. I told them that they had until 5pm the next day to get it resolved or the papers would be filed in the morning.
Needless to say we had a resolution by 5pm the next day. I had my check within 48 hours and only missed the figure I wanted by $120.00
I have held onto the entire CCC file and have not done anything with it as far as the Insurance Commissioner\’s Office is concerned.
If you want to coordinate with me perhaps we could both send our paperwork in to them at the same time. Sort of a nice Merry Christmas gift for CCC.
Let me know.
After submitting my \”questions\” to an office-dwelling adjuster at Geico – which included the original window sticker from my loss vehicle, I was told to wait for another valuation to be sent by certified mail.
It arrives Saturday and it\’s same song different verse. Basically all Geico did was add line item cash for some (not all) of the loss vehicle options not included in the first offer.
So, we\’re still not valuing the loss vehicle correctly (missing a few standard and optional items) and we\’re still not giving comps the proper adjustments for: Trim Level, Standard features and options.
The 2 dealer comps are a year newer but one is base and the other is mid tier. They\’ve added and subtracted thousands on these comps but you can\’t tell what the secret formula is.
I am able to indentify a couple of areas where I lost value for not having features that I either have or have something even better. (I admit, you\’d have to know Saabs to pick up on this.)
The problem is what to do now….
Geico put a nice little 7 day take it or bug off notice on the cover of the package. Of course the adjuster didn\’t sign the offer sheet and it arrived on a Saturday — so I\’m not sure which 7 days they gave me.
I do know that the adjuster is scheduled for vacation on Friday. That would explain how I got certified on Saturday.
I\’m guessing her boss told her to close everything before she started her vacation.
My feeling is to fwd the entire mess to the Ins Comm for review. I\’ve already been in touch with someone from their office via the web and was surprised to receive a thorough response within 24 hrs.
I suspect that this would:
1.Stop the 7 day clock – or at least slow it down
2.Take the matter out of this field adjusters hands
3.Not have a negative effect on my claim
It looks like I\’ll be contacting the at fault driver, as well. Gecko says they will only pay X$ for loss of use (rental car).
The nice folks at the GA Ins Comm office provided me with the GA statute that states they \”shall pay reasonable benefits for losses, including total losses, to a third party on behalf of an insured for loss of use and towing and storage costs of such a motor vehicle\”
I don\’t find their x$ rental cap reasonable compared to my loss vehicle — which I\’m still paying for — and I don\’t find it safe after the accident.
I figure the at fault driver can pick up the rest of the rental tab and then go after Gecko for bad faith (and about $300).
She seemed like a decent and reasonable person…I guess we\’ll find out.
I tried to buy a car (you know p to mitigate the losses) but I can\’t buy a car with the loss vehicle still out there on my records….and I can\’t get rid of the loss vehicle until Gecko makes an honest attempt to figure the ACV.
It\’s Monday, just after 7 in the morning, and I\’m already feeling like I\’ve gone 12 rounds.
–ksr
On Dec. 30th 2006,an elderly lady turned left within 2 feet of her left side curb going 25 mph and continued down the middle of the street, plowing into my son, who had been approaching the intersection, but stopped about three car lengths short when he saw her coming. He honked at her but she never even touched her brakes!
We had her insurance company on the phone immediately and they provided a rental car that day.
Because our vehicle was a rare 62 chevy short fleetside with large rear window and the three-year frame-off resto was only six months old, I believed that her insurance would want to buy (total) the truck for $800 and take it. I\’d spent over $9k in parts and had probably 1000 hrs in labor, so I was quite stressed.
The next day,(Saturday) an appraiser arrived to verify the resto, and was quite sympathetic, being a car restorer himself. He said that his part of the process would favor our plight, but explained that his was not a decision making role.
By Tuesday morning, the adjuster had a package from me explaining the entire restoration process and containing three ads for comparable trucks from traderonline.com
I also allowed the options of: 1) repair to my specifications including placement on new chassis 2)Outright purchase (total loss) at between $15k and $25K or 3) replacement with a comparably restored and equipped truck of the exact same model.
After many sleepless night and almost 60 days of waiting, we were offerred 15K and were allowed to buy our truck back for 1K. The only downside is that this truck will be \”salvage title\” forever.
What I was told by a friend that does insurance appraisal on boats is this:
CCC Valuescope is simply a database tool that offers the appraiser the documentation necessary to support the valuation that he has himself determined.
If the appraiser is a hardballer or his employing insurance company is,then guess how the valuescope appraisal is going to come out?!
When I discovered that Triple-A insurance used Valuescope, I cut off verbal communications with the adjuster and wrote and told him that I was aware of Valuescope\’s methods and told him I would consider any valuation that came in less than my numbers to be counterfeit and that I\’d insist on getting as much info as I needed to disprove a counterfeit valuation.
It turns out that the proper combination of my firmness of conviction, and a sympathetic appraiser got me close enough to the right number. While our truck is actually more valuable, we were more interested in settling quickly and easily on an offer that was mostly reasonable. I\’d say that we came out okay and that we were compensated (more or less) fairly.
I am in the midst of a total loss claim right now, and all I want is the Kelly Blue Book – Private Party Sale – Good Condition value for our 1997 Pontiac Firebird Convertible, (my wife\’s car, which she meticulously maintained). Even though the other party has been ruled entirely at fault, my own insurance company does not agree KBB states a fair value. They offered the CCC Valuation which compared exactly two cars locally, which were only similar, while I (within a matter of a few hours) located and documented 6 cars presently for sale that are nearly identical and at far higher prices. When I asked them if they wanted the dealer information for those vehicles, they refused to accept the information. The amount they offered is about half the price it would cost me to buy any one of those vehicles, yet they still maintain their valuation is accurate. This has just started, and I am one very stubborn individual. Some might say I would cut off my nose to spite my face, and if that means I will suffer a loss to take this through litigation, then I have to say their assessment is dead on target. If my insurance company does not realize this fact about me in time, we will indeed be meeting in court, and I will be very prepared with my own private counsel representing my interests. It is my belief that problems such as these remain prevalent simply because too many people feel it is not worth the effort. I am not one of them.
I called today to dispute many assertions made in the CCC Valuation. I had everything organized and planned to go through each area of dispute page by page, especially the adjuster\’s claim as to the condition of our vehicle. For example, the outragious claim that the exterior had \”significant\” rust, when we live in a semi-arid desert environment. Unbelievable! After I started to dispute these areas, the total loss agent stated that they had agreed to change the settlement to match my original reasonable request. I was stunned. After a pregnant pause, I stated that I was satisfied then. I asked them to FAX me the new settlement offer, and I am in the process of packaging the forms along with the title to send to them by DHL. Did they have a change of heart? Well, last night I did send them a link to this page via email. In any case, I am relieved. If someone believes their response was notable and is curious as to the insurance company\’s name, it is Farmer\’s Insurance. I am now reconsidering my previous thoughts about changing insurance companies after the issue is resolved. I still might, but at least they didn\’t drag this out too long. One thing I would recommend to anyone who faces a similar situation is to check out your state\’s Insurance Commissioner\’s web site. It is from their that I learned California Law requires Insurance companies to reopen claims for adjustment after 35 days if a comparable vehicle can not be found for the settlement offer. It also requires them to include state taxes and license fees based on the settlement amount, and I did also send quoted text from that paragraph of the law. Perhaps they thought it would be easier to recover my original reasonable requested amount from the other party\’s insurance, and then they would not have to face potential higher settlement costs later, which would be more difficult to recover. Again, thanks for all the exceptional advice. It the settlement takes an unexpected twist, I will post my further experiences.
Congrats – you seem to have skipped a few steps on your way to a settlement.
My experience led me to believe that adjusters don\’t even look at the CCC valuation until it gets thrown back at them by the claimant.
Good luck.
Gather all your comps AND MAKE SURE you get a complete copy of the CCC validation.
You should be able to poke a few holes in the options included/options not included area.
If the CCC comps are not the same year/trim — you\’ve got some leverage.
Don\’t waste your time with vehicles outside your local area – no help at all.
If you happen to have the window sticker from your vehicle, send a copy to back up your vehicle.
CCC doesn\’t know the intricate trim levels and packages of every make and model….they\’ll say you have basic wheels when you might have a sport package that includes upgraded wheels. You need to prove all of this with documentation.
Now do the same for the CCC comps. What are they lacking — are they serviced – wrecked – under warranty? There\’s always a few items/options that are wrong.
If you can show that the CCC valuation is not 100% accurate – you can easily say it\’s fraudulant.
Insurance companies hate fraud….so does your State Ins Comm. In fact it\’s a MAJOR crime. So find the fraud and back it up with facts.
And do yourself a favor and let the Blue Book (and other widely known valuation guides) go. In the last few years they\’ve become nothing more than a consumer marketing channel. Kelly\’s core customer used to be Dealers and Wholesalers – now it\’s individual consumers in the market for a car.
Once you get your complete CCC valuation, let us know.
And I almost forgot – you may be able to deduct the loss on your taxes. It\’s a little tricky but if you weren\’t paid the ACV that you should have been (that you can document) than it\’s a casualty loss. (Yes, this would the one time I recommend consulting and printing out your KBB valuation)
It\’s a racket, Steve.
Remember this: NO MATTER WHAT YOUR INSURANCE AGENT TELLS YOU; NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU\’VE KNOWN YOUR INSURANCE AGENT; NO MATTER HOW LONG YOU\’VE DONE BUSINESS WITH YOUR INSURANCE AGENT OR YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY; YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY ADVERSARIES WITH YOUR OWN INSURANCE AGENT AND YOUR OWN INSURANCE COMPANY WHEN YOU BECOME A CLAIMANT–PERIOD.
In essence it\’s racketeering between companies like CCC and their client insurance companies–and our federal government. Hell, if you or I tried to INFLATE our property damage claims to the extent CCC and their client companies (i.e. our own insurance companies) try to DEFLATE our property damage claims, I can almost assure you, you and I would be accused of insurance fraud by our insurance companies. You and I would also have to hire an attorney and we would without a doubt be facing possible jail time.
Sad to say, for insurance companies this is simply the way they do business: screw the claimant–even if you are a long-time pay on time client.
If you intend to obtain a fair and reasonable settlement close to current market value for your vehicle–start typing now. Pick the valuation from CCC a part point-by-point. Send all correspondence certified mail and return receipt. Remember: Not written, not said.
My property damage settlement offer went from just under $3000 to just over $6000. I did exchange almost half-a-dozen certified, return receipt letters with the insurance company prior to settling the property damage claim–but I think it was worth it. I could go on, but better yet I suggest you at the least purchase two books:
Auto Accident Personal Injury Insurance Claim: (How to Evaluate and Settle Your Loss) by Dan Baldyga
http://www.amazon.com/Accident-Personal-Injury-Insurance-Claim/dp/158820328X
How to Win Your Personal Injury Claim by Joseph Matthews
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&endeca=1&isbn=1413305199&itm=2
I have a several books related to this issue, but these two seemed to be the most helpful.
Keep pounding away at them–it\’s the only way to deal with ANY insurance company/agent/adjuster when you are the claimant.
Good Luck
Steven, it seems your own ins. co. has drawn the line in the sand regarding their opinion of your loss vehicle. I highly encourage you to read your ins. policy under the appraisal area. An appraiser will probably run you 200-250 & sounds like it would be money well spent.You may call me direct @ 505 681-8540.
And if you have the ability to bring the wreck home — do it.
If it\’s at some yard the charges add up fast and the adjuster will pressure you to let them tow the vehicle to a yard of thier choice.
Problem is, you\’ll never be able to see or examine the vehicle again. And if you\’re third party, the vehicle is still your legal responsibilty – not some insurance company\’s that you have no relationship with.
Put in your driveway and collect the $20 a day yourself until you\’re satisfied with the settlement.
And once you\’ve reached a settlement, try to supress your desire to remove some small interior and trim keepsakes that might do well on ebay.
Not the most ethical advice you\’ll get, but you probably knew that.
WOW!
It\’s nice to hear a claimant had a “fairly good\” experience with their insurance company.
Now, Steve, I don\’t mean to rain on your parade, but in addition to the agreed upon price for the vehicle–BE SURE–that you and your agent/adjuster have specifically discussed and agreed upon your being compensated for the following items in the Property Damage Claim settlement and he confirms it IN WRITING:
1. Sales tax on the vehicle (e.g., state, local, etc.):
This is IN ADDITION to the agreed upon price of the vehicle–don\’t let him tell you it was included–unless you and he have specifically discussed it and agreed upon it. (You might do a little research, because I don\’t know if California laws are like Texas laws.)
2. Daily Loss of Use:
Even if you didn\’t have a rental vehicle–you are owed Loss of Use per day! The only question is how much a rental a vehicle in your area goes for that is of the like, kind and quality of your totaled car. In other words, don\’t let the agent/adjuster try and pay you $30 per day for a subcompact car for Loss of Use if your totaled vehicle is an SUV! Find out what they rent for in your area and shoot for that.
Don’t fall for any bogus claim from your agent/adjuster that they can only pay you for a maximum of seven days (or whatever the claim may be) for Loss of Use when it took their appraiser two or three weeks to get to your car and another week or two to get the appraisal from the appraiser. If this is the case—IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT THEY DON’T HIRE ENOUGH APPRAISERS TO GET TO THEIR CUSTOMERS WITH A FEW DAYS.
Charge them for every day since the car was totaled until you settle the Property Damage Claim. Again, you can negotiate the price up or down at YOUR discretion.
3. Stowage:
As the lady said in the other posting, you are owed reasonable storage fees, too. If the vehicle is stored on your property, shoot for whatever auto shops in your area charge for storage–negotiate up or down as you see fit. If you paid ANY storage fees to a storage facility (impound, body shop, etc.), YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY SHOULD REIMBURSE YOU EVERY PENNY—you should not to be out any storage fees if your vehicle has been stored at an auto repair shop. Just be sure you have or can get a valid receipt from the storage facility or be able to prove the day the car was dropped by the tow truck on your property. That brings up another item.
4. DON’T FORGET TO INCLUDE ANY TOWING FEES.
5. The PROPERTY DAMAGE SETTLEMENT:
Last—but not least—assuming the above items are settled to your satisfaction, when you get the Property Damage Claim check—ENSURE IT STATES IT IS ONLY FOR THE PROPERTY DAMAGE CLAIM. This is very important if you have any injuries, medical treatment, ambulance bills, doctor visits, physical therapy bills, lost time at work, etc. These items should be included in the next round of negotiations once you’re done with any medical treatment and your back to work.
Usually, at least in Texas, the attorneys don’t want to haggle with these agents/adjusters over the value of a vehicle. Most attorneys won’t do it because it isn’t lucrative enough for them. The attorneys feed you to the sharks on Property Damage claims—they just want the personal injury portion of your claim where the REAL money for them is.
Again, remember: NOT WRITTEN, NOT SAID.
Good Luck
Lee
In California, the law requires inclusion of sales tax and license fees, and I confirmed the inclusion of the same in the written settlement offer. Regarding rental car costs, since I do not include that as part of my own insurance, I will have to get that from the other party\’s insurance; however, my insurance company is required by law to subrogate the deductable portion, and they gave me a Fax number to send a copy of the rental car receipt, stating they would pass that on to the Subrogation Department. They were the Total Loss Department. Once the Total Loss department closes their part of this case, and I receive that check, I have to contact the Subrogation Department. At that time, I will either find out that they are seeking all the costs, and not simply the deductable, or I will get the other party\’s Insurance Contact Number and have to seek the Rental Car costs directly. The reason I am not sure is because I have been through this before where another party was at fault, and that time, I had to seek anything not covered on my policy myself. If this time they handle it all, I will be happy, but if not, I can go through it with the other company, as I have done that before with no difficulty. Also, my wife and I do not needlessly add costs just because we can. We went ahead and bought her a 2006 Nissan Maxima (NICE car), and after that we no longer needed a rental. So we returned it (2007 Pontiac G6, also a NICE car). They will have no basis at all for denying the less than $300 total rental costs, but if they do, I am prepared to go to battle again. Surprisingly, our insurance company towed the car without charging us, and we were told that we have salvage rights, but be declined. The car is now in a salvage yard. Though we were not planning to replace the car for another two years, we are satisfied to have received more than \”Trade-In\” value in the purchase of the 2006 Maxima. It also put us in a better bargaining position, as I didn\’t have to haggle both on the price of the car and the trade-in credit. And I am a deal or no deal type car buyer. I told him exactly what I was willing to pay, and told him if he came back with a counter offer, we would walk right out without another word being said. Our offer of $20,000 was accepted. We are nearly whole right now; the rest should be simply jumping through the appropriate hoops.
Thank you for you response. I’ve been looking at the Missouri Insurance site you noted and have yet to find anything specific to what insurance companies should include in their settlement payments.
I have been trying to find any regulations or statutes in my state showing what should be included in a total loss settlement. I can not find anything that states those requirements. Can someone lead me in the right direction for Missouri?
My Insurance company is saying they are not required to pay taxes etc on the settlement amount. I am just wanting to make sure.
Thank you,
NT
It is typical for the insurance company to pay you *all* costs to replace the vehicle, minus any deductible. Therefore, they should pay you replacement value of the vehicle plus sales tax on that replacement value, because that is what it will cost you to go buy that replacement car.
You should be able to learn about the applicable laws in your state by contacting the Missouri Department of Insurance (http://insurance.mo.gov/). That’s also a good place to leave complaints if your insurance company is jerking you around. Typically state insurance departments will advocate on your behalf if an insurance company is misbehaving.
I saw another novel approach for getting the attention of a corporate behemoth that is ignoring your concern or bullying you at the customer service level…..
If the company is publicly traded, buy a small amount of stock in that company, and then start communicating with the “investor relations” department about your problem or concern.If that department tries to blow you off, express an interest in exercising your right to publicly speak at the next stockholders meeting about how the company is involved in using fraudulent third-party appraisals. This has been said to work wonders, although I’ve never had to resort to this because when I’m right, and have done my homework, the opposition usually folds!
How does CCC compute the cash value?
I have a 05 Corrola S with 54 miles, my insurance used CCC reporting system to offer me $12,500 for the settlement. I have no way to buy a similar car based on their offer, my insurance said my option is to find a appraisor at my own cost, they will also hire their appraisor, then they will use the agreement betweent two appraisors to settle the claim. They agreed to cover my costs for the tires I purchased last year.
Do I really need to go through Appraisor, or there’s other options I could get the cash value from different resource?
Holly,
Based on my experience and what you are saying about the car’s value, there are probably falsifications or errors in the CCC report (incorrect model types, undisclosed damage to comparison vehicles, non-existant ghost vehicles, etc.). If you have the time and the grit, you can call the telephone number provided for each comparable and find out the real story about their comps, then tell your insurance company their comps are no good and that you expect a new valuation with new and correct comps. I did this, but I just got the run-around from Farmers Insurance, and it wasn’t until I got the state Insurance Commissioner involved that I got some action. Until then, Farmers said my only option was the dual-appraisal thing. You might be okay doing that, but I believe it is binding, meaning you have to take what ever value they come up with. I wasn’t willing to take that risk with a company that I already discovered was misleading me with false comps, so I worked with the Insurance Commissioner to demand that they provide accurate comps. (But first I had to prove to the Insurance Commissioner that Farmer’s data was inaccurate.) In the end, Farmers opted to pay for a third party, non-binding appraisal, rather than trying to get accurate information from the CCC hoaxsters. I was happy with the appraised value (a 50% increase over the CCC false valuation) and decided to accept their offer – even though I still had the option to reject it. In the end, though, it took almost 4 months to get my money. If you can’t wait that long, the dual-appraisal is probably a good compromise between time and risk, but who knows what jokers your insurance company will hire for their appriasal…. Good luck!
Holly,
It is sad to say, but time is on the insurance company’s side. If what you say is true, Farmers clearly doesn’t give a damn about you, your family or about trying to reach a mutually agreed upon fair and reasonable settlement with you, and they clearly do not give a damn that their offer to you is based on an apparent fraudulent valuation from CCC.
If what you say is true, Farmers and their ilk are only concerned with two things:
1. COLLECTING – they want your monthly or yearly premiums.
2. RETAINING – the want to ensure they keep your monthly or yearly premiums–even if by clearly fraudulent business practices.
Okay, three things:
3. BONUSES – The upper echelon want to ensure they receive not only their salary, but their hefty bonuses each quarter.
Insurance companies will wait “you out” until you agree to their fraudulent offer based on the usually fraudulent valuations from CCC, or, if you can afford to hire your own appraiser as they offered you can fight them–but it is crap shoot.
If what you say is true, what goes on (i.e., Farmers blatantly and openly using CCC’s falsified valuations to base their offers on)between CCC and insurance companies like Farmers is, in fact, RACKETEERING by definition. If you or I attempted to inflate our claims(opposite of CCC and the companies like Farmers and their ilk trying to deflate our claims by fraudulent means and methods)by including higher variant makes or models in our demand letters, I assure you, Farmers would pursue you and I for insurance fraud in a heart beat and spare not expense doing it.
If you choose to continue the battle on your own as I did, I recommended two books in one of my earlier postings. Buy them or check them out at the library. Also, be willing to file a detailed written complaint to your state’s department of insurance. It’s like a slap on the wrist to the insurers, but after so many complaints, they could be investigated by the state.
Ultimately, I recommend you and every other customer who has been swindled by an insurance company as I have been–find out who the insurance company’s CEO is and, if in the future you find that he or she has passed away, find out where they are buried, take a nice long drive out to the cemetery where they are interred and, after having several cold ones, christen their grave when you feel the need.
Oh, you might want to make sure no one is around, and you might want to bring someone else along to drive you back home. I bet their widow’s and families will never be able to figure out why grass won’t grow on their graves.
Now that I’ve known for a couple years that CCC did the estimate I am very pleased to hear that it is finally coming to an end. Have waited for some time now. I hoped it doesn’t take as long with the finalization.
Finally talk is airing about the settlement. It’s about time!!!!!!
Hey, I’ve got an idea:
How about this website, insurancejournal.com, create a bulletin board specifically for businesses and consumers like all of us who have had the screws put to us by insurance companies who use CCC Information Services, Inc. fraudulent valuations to base their insurance settlement offers? And, better yet, how about you, insurancejournal.com, put a link to this new bulletin board on your website’s front page?
Maybe give it an interesting title like “CCC Information Services, Inc. Fraudulent Appraisals Help Insurance Companies Screw Another Customer”.
I’m actually working on a detailed complaint to the Texas Attorney General’s office detailing my experience with a particular insurance and the three blatantly fraudulent valuations CCC Information Services, Inc. provided them, and when I complete my complaint for the Texas OAG, I’m considering sending a copy of the complaint to 20/20, Dateline and 60 Minutes.
Although I settled my case, both property damage and personal injury without an attorney and for much more than the insurance company initially offered, I had to spend too much of my time literally picking their valuation apart page by page, paragraph by paragraph, sentence by sentence and word by word.
If anyone from CCC Information Services, Inc. would like to dispute THE FACTS I’ve listed on my postings–FEEL FREE.
In fact, I am tempted to post all of my voluminous documents on a website. Heck, I don’t know that much about setting up a website, but I have acquaintances that do.
If I do set up such a website, between my certified letters to the adjuster, the adjuster’s letters and the fraudulent CCC Information Services, Inc. valuations, it would consist of several hundred pages.
Come on, insurancejournal.com, how about it? Remember, although most of these postings are from little ‘ol individual consumers like me, I’m sure many, many businesses have been screwed on their insurance claim settlements by their own insurance companies who use CCC Information Services, Inc. fraudulent valuations.
PLEASE, insurancejournal.com? After all, it’s not like the “victorious” class action lawsuits against CCC Information Services and a few of their clients (i.e., the insurance companies) have changed the fraudulent way they do business—just read our postings.
I found out that I could get a check for the disputed amount before the appraisals. But the check amount is the net between CCC value and the salvage value($4K). Is there any risk to take the check before appraisal?
Hmmm . . . maybe we all ought to petition our state politicians to pass similar laws.
I know in my case after almost two years of wrangling with the insurance company without the aid of an attorney, under this law I would have received over $30,000.
After all, the money the insurance companies save doesn’t go to the customers (e.g., reduced premiums and discounts), it just goes into the executive’s and shareholder’s pockets.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/28/insurance.vote/index.html
i too have beeen ripped off by farmers and ccc. there has been two class action law suits, one in nevada, and one in california. Maybe there needs to be another class action law suit?
I’ve found several falsifications on the CCC evaluation and Comps. The most funny (or sad depending on how you see it) was they claimed the transmission fluid was “Badly discolored”, the only problem with that was my truck has a manual transmission. I called all of the comps and found one had been wrecked and was sold in that condition, one was in a flood, and the other had nearly 295,109 miles, not the 148,000 that CCC reported (notice the nice round number, these guys aren’t too smart). I just filed a formal complaint with the Texas Department of Insurance. I’m willing to join any Class Action Suit, Sign me up!!!
I agree with Matt Turner. CCC’s incompetence borders on criminal malfeasance. For me, CCC has provided a valuation report full of plain sight errors just on comparison options alone. I have not begun to call on their comparison vehicles for price, condition, mileage, etc., but I will. Count me in, Matt.
If you want to band together to share ideas on helping each other get fair valuations or to discuss class action suits, please contact me at rjensen@sharemyride.com
Their evaluation reports are just a JOKE! A third grader would come up with a better organized document. We could not find over 1/2 of the vehicles compared with our vehicle. The report included barely 1/2 of extra options our vehicle had. The adjustments did not make any sense. They compared our vehicle mostly with the cheapest vehicles out there and artificially adjusted our cash value for a different model which ended up being still lower than if they would have compared our car with the another one of the same trim. They purposely picked lower models and at the same time ignored vehicles in the market with prices that were favorable to us. What kind of criminals are they? How this can even be real? What was Ameriprise thinking when they hired these guys, What a bunch of CRIMINALS!!!!
My job at our firm is to help our clients get the fair (ACV) value for their vehicles (which is outlined in the Washington State Insurance Commisioners Total Loss Factsheet!). I typically work with the adverse carrier and not our client’s own insurance carrier as they do not always carry collision coverage. When trying to settle a total loss claim with the 3rd party carrier there are even fewer options for our client’s (the inocent victims of soemone else’s negligence). Farmers is by far the worst! I have several comps for one of our client’s vehicles and contacted the dealers where CCC came up with ‘their’ comps and was told by the dealers that those vehicles were sold for a much higher price than what was used in CCC’s evaluation. The TL adjuster for Farmers just ignored this fact in our letters and said “take our offer or leave it!” Farmers even double dinged this specific client for mileage on his comparison. Their CCC evaluation deducted for higher mileage and then the adjuster took his averages for the comps and deducted mileage again. I am going to contact the local news and hopefully it is an interesting enough story that it will be picked up!!! Let’s keep talking about it and hope some action is taken! We are now taking some of our cases to small claims court and hope a judge has more sense than these crooks!!!
What is the highest dollar amount allowed in small claims court in Washington?
And how do you get reliable price information on sold vehicles.
I am negotiating for $10,000.
What a pain.
The maximum allowed in small claims court in WA is $4k.
I research KBB, NADA, Craigslist and Autotrader, I then average the vehicles that I have found availbale in the client’s principally gargaged area… (There are specific guidlines for this in Wa State through the Insurance Commisioner, however his focus is specifically on the 1st party carrier so we are writing our own manual as we go in regards to teeh 3rd party carriers.)
We are having a firm meeting to discuss our next course of action on the two files I am fighting now (w/ the questionable CCC evaluations.) I will keep you all posted on what we are planning… we may look at our own Class Action in WA state!
I work with total loss claims daily on behalf of the lien holder and could tell you horror story after horror story. On average CCC pays $1,000.00 less than N.A.D.A. the offical used car guide. This I believe, with comparable local market vehciles should be the valuation for any total loss claim. If your adjuster does not let you negotiate your figure, then consider an appraisal abritration which is your right.
I had a personal claim and my adjuster did negotiate with me on the settlement. I was not happy with it 100% but they tried. The answer is to change insurance carriers. We pay millions of dollars to these companies, and when it comes time to settle a claim, it seems they are not on the customer’s side. I left my old carrier, of 20 years, and switched to a company that uses N.A.D.A.
So ask your insurance agent before commiting to a carrier, “what system does the compay use to determine A.C.V.?”
Next class action lawsuit…count me in!
Most Insurance companies use CCC. Do you know which companies do not?
I am an attorney in Washingotn State. I have filed a federal class action suit against CCC and some of the insurers. I like to hear from you about your concerns.
I am negotiating with Nationwide. It is a struggle. I have had to do this twice in two years.
There should be an easier and more equitable way to value a total loss car.
Count me in.
Call me at 253 376 7810
I just did an appraisal arbitration….the ins. company , wont mention, was going to give the customer $8400 ish for a car worth $11,500….I had an appraisal arbitration (all customers can do this) – and they offered $11,300 when all was said and done…guess how much my appraisal cost? $70 bucks, and we got $2500 more then their first offer…oh I could tell you stories….
COMMERCE INSURANCE USES NADA…
PROGRESSIVE IN SOME STATES USE NADA NOW
…I AM TRYING TO NOTE WHO USES WHAT….I GET SO BUSY AND AM WORKING ON THIS….I FINALLY DUMPED METLIFE (CCC) AND AM WITH COMMERCE….ASK YOUR AGENT, BEFORE SIGNING UP….WILLLET YOU ALL KNOW, AS I COMPILE THE LIST….
Well Brian,
As you are an attorney, I’m not sure how much more you need to know, but you can read my postings about my own experience, but I think you can see that the insurance companies have repeatedly conspired with CCC to defraud each and every one of us.
Racketeering.
Insurance fraud.
Falsifying documents.
You name it, these insurance companies with the help of CCC has done it to each one of us again and again. And, sadly, each of us know if we attempt to inflate our claims just as these insurance companies and CCC attempt to deflate the claims, we would most likely have to retain and attorney and face jail time and who knows what kind of fines.
What kind of information are you looking for? My accident happened a while back, and took me almost two years to resolve. I had been keeping all of my documentation including letters, emails and notes of phone calls, and since I settled my suit some time ago, I have been contemplating shredding these documents.
As I said, I’ve already settled my suit here in Texas, and I know if I could be included in your class action suit–but I’d sure as hell like to be!
Again, let us know what kind of information you are looking for.
I would also like to see if I can become part of this suit as I am currently fighting against the usage of the CCC report. It is not the report that is at fault, as it was created as a basic guideline only…it is the representatives who use it that are abusing it…I will not settle for the price they are offering me and they are telling me that they are refusing to negotiate in good faith. This behavior is what gives companies a bad name. I personally have an insurance agent that I highly respect and trust, and if it were not for him, I too would have lost faith.
Brian,
I have just gotten off the phone with Dairyland Ins. and they are using the CCC report to value my ’94 Ford Ranger 4X4. I have done my homework looking at adds in the paper, Autotrader.com, Cars.com, NADA, Kelly Blue Book, etc. They are undervaluing my truck by about 30% and even though my truck is not worth alot, my wife was rear ended and did nothing wrong. I SHOULD be fairly compensated for our loss.
Please include me in any action you take and I would be happy to supply you with any documentation you wish to support my claim.
I am filing a complaint with the Missouri Dept. of Insurance today. When I told with the agent handling my claim that their offer was not acceptable and that I was going to file the complaint, her response was, “That’s OK, we’re used to it.” I think that pretty well sums up the attitude in the industry!
Let me know if you need anything else from me.
~Brian Williams~
I have recently resolved an arbitration hearing that took me approxiamately sixteen months following my initial claim. Nevertheless, I won the case but not the full retail value of my vehicle. The issue that came up throughout the hearing was the findings from ccc valuescope. The adjuster as a witness for the defense in this case stated emphaticlly that his assessment came from the methods of ccc valuescope. Many double standards, contradictions, fabrications, alteration, etc. occurred at this hearing. Let me say that I represented myself or should I say my case and this procedure is and was time consuming. Most people do not have the resource, nor legal education to pursue a claim and ultimately have to settle for less. I also stated these facts in my presentation. Furthermore, these predator insurance companies take the monies from the consumer and pay these law firms to defend the fradulent documents coming to us after filing a claim. I would like to be apart of a Class Action law suit against ccc valuescope and also other insurance companies that participate in these illegal activities. At this moment I would love to reject the offer awarded to me; however, my resources are depleted and unfortunately I have to accept the offer but I will continue to encourage and assist other people if I can. People who deal with these crooked companies. So if there is a lawyer out there filing a claim against ccc valuescope or some of these other companies I might have some vital information in this matter. I also have a Illinois case number.
Mr. Brian Sheldon would you contact me concerning a possible lawsuit against ccc valuescope and the insurance company as well. I recently won a judgement in arbitration against the Insurance company but I did the get the retail value. Illinois department of financial and professional regulations here in Illinois deal with retail value instead of actual cash value. I also have thirty days to reject the offer—we are talking maybe three weeks now–contact me if and when you can. garres372@aol.com
Stafford,
I am still in the arbitation stagewith my insurance company, however I have filed a complaint with the Missouri Dept of Insurance against Dairyland Ins. for using a flawed CCC valuation. The insurance company upped their offer within 2 weeks. We have not setteled yet, but we are getting closer. I also would like to offer whatever knowledge I have received from this experience to help anyone else. willie2507@hotmail.com
Someone please direct me to the source entailing a Class action law suit against ccc value scope and other insurance companies in the state of Illinois. I recently won an arbitration hearing however, I was not awarded the actual cash value of this vehicle. Let me point out to other consumers that these Insurance companies will virtrully wear you down—I mean we as consumers have responsibilities such as bills, tuitions, graduations, funerals, etc to name a few and these Insurance companies take advantage of the disadvantage—This illegal activity needs to come out and we have to somehow bring it to the media attention so other people will know—My question is “why hasn’t something been said or done by the attorney general’s office?” You mean to tell me that the rackets got that kind of power? I think not—We have to pursue —
Hello Dawn:
I’ve had a total loss as the result of an impaired driver. His company, Farmers, has accepted liability and I’ve received a valuation done by CCC.
It follows the pattern of selective comparables and there are some figures in the report that are not explained.
How can I get information to assist me in decoding the report?
Also, has any further discussion or action occured in relation to a class-action in Washington (where I reside)?
Can you give me any other information that would provide me with leverage?
Does the prospect of my retaining counsel give me any leverage with them or does it not matter as they have a large stable of attorneys?
Thanks very much,
Sue Ellen
I would also like this info—I am furious having just recieved the insurance paperwork over the total loss of my truck–their value is $2000.00 less than kelley blue book value and over $3000 less than what I paid for it just over a year ago. I’m thinking about hiring a lawyer but someone’s comment on here said they spent 16 months in arbitration—who has the time or money for that–this is BS–To be included in any classaction lawsuit do you have to be in the same area?? I’m from oregon–oh and they used market value for vehicles 300 miles from my home–
See http://www.totallosssettlement.com/. This is the link to the settlement website for the class action in which CCC paid out over $8M. This is pennies on the dollar against the value of CCC’s illegal business practices. Also, see Steve Ryan’s article “Salvaging the Total Loss Claim”, (http://www.stephencryanpc.com/CM/Custom/TOCArticles.asp) This article details CCC’s valuation methodology.
Hire an arbitrator for $200-$300. They will get you a fair price. Unfortunately you lose the amount of their fee, plus your insurance deductable.
Thanks Ross—If it comes to it I certainly will–
http://www.scottysbodyshop.com/TotalLoss.htm–gave me some ideas on some steps to take. I’m assuming that I can come back with a counteroffer?? I’ve never dealt with this before so I don’t really know how it works so I really appreciate all the info I am finding on here. I also found an article written by a lawyer that talked about the deceptive practices CCC uses-I thought it was a good article, gives you an idea of what your dealing with-it was written back in 1999 but it dosn’t seem like anything has changed-http://www.stephencryanpc.com/CM/Custom/TOCArticles.asp
–I really cannot belive that this is legal or that I have to invest so much of my time for something I’ve been paying into for years!!!!
Could you also tell me if I would have to hire an actual arbitrator or can I hire an appraiser who deals w/ this sort of thing???
ripoffreport.com actually does all this for you–and the stories can end up on 60 min or similar–funny thing is when I looked up CCC to see if any reports came up there wasn’t any, there was a couple against diff. insurance co. mentioning the CCC reports but it seems to me that while the insurance co. are definitely ripping us off-its the use of the CCC that needs to be stopped–
Melissa I can feel your frustrations. If you do not have the money and time to wrestle with these predators its basically a waste of time unless you do your own research. Melissa understand that ccc value scope, insurance companies, and lawyers for these companies have access to these sites as well. I say that to say this —these people look for comments such as yours and mines to deter you from whatever your intentions may be. Most of the time mentioning money like money is falling out the sky. I think most of us do not have extra money to shell out for expenses we should not have. Not only that —we are not guaranteed anything and believe me if you dont do your home work these lawyers will eat you alive with lies and words you can’t find in a dictionary. Melissa do your own research and stick with the truth and the facts and whatever you don’t understand trust me there is a neutral site that can give you the answer. Just type it in the search web. Finally, check the state statistics of the insurance company you are dealing with. I will continue to be in contact with you Ok. Good Luck
Thanks so much Stafford–
Homework is all I’m doing right now–I did check w/ my states dept of insurance and was surprised to see that my insurance co. has only one complaint in the last year–but until yesterday I didn’t even know there was a dept. of insurance –so I’m sure I’m not alone there–
Thanks again
Consumers you must understand before pursuing these companies that you are now a threat to the illegal activities going on amongst these agents as well as the Insurance Companies. That is if you write about the wrong you have endured. I have recently cancelled another acount with another Insurance company introduced to me by Marvell Towers. I called this companies (policy services) July 2, 2008 to discuss the possible renewal of my policy I had several questions to ask pertaining to this policy; however, no one answered the phone until late that afternoon–I was assured someone would call me back before the days end and no one returned a call—mind you this was customer service –think if it was claims. I called back July 7, 2008 early that Monday morning requesting a refund considering my policie expires July 20, 2008. Today is July 22, 2008 and I called a minute ago and was told that a request has to be sent to accounts. My question is why wasnt this done three weeks ago. I was a good client –no accidents, and I paid my premiums on time but now I wonder what would happen if there was an accident —people pay attention to these insurance companies like United Equitable. Im telling you to beware. By the way the lady hung up the phone on me when I told her the call was being recorded.
To Everyone: I am an attorney and I just dealt with an insurance company that uses CCC Valuescope. They offered me $3,300 on a car easily worth close to $5,000. I told them ‘No Thanks” and that instead, I would sue them in small claims court. They countered in less than 10 minutes with $4,200. Here’s why: if you take them to court, they have to 1) get their attorney to appear (corporations can only appear via attorney); and 2) they would have to bring in someone from CCC to testify about the valuation – they can’t offer a report into evidence unles it is via a human being who is an expert and who prepared the report. That will cost them at least another $1,000, so my advice is to tell them you will see them in SC court unless they up the offer; it usually works.
Wayne (and anyone else with a CCC report),
Did the CCC report use newer model year vehicles for the comparions? And if so, did the report deduct from the loss vehicle’s cash value for being an earlier year?
In California, such a deduction for a newer model year vehicle is insurance fraud per se. This is because it violates California Fair Claims Settlement Practices Regulations. In California, insurance fraud is a felony.
Geore
Good info, Wayne.
That’s pretty much what I did. I haggled with them right up until the week the two year statue of limitations ran out and threatened to take them to small claims court.
They settled for more money than they originally offered (read my postings below). One funny thing I did, or stupid thing I did (I guess it depends on how you want to look at it), once my property damage claim was settled, no one ever came and towed my totaled car away. So, about a month later I called the adjuster and asked him when he intended to have the car towed.
He tried to convince me that I should have had the car towed once the property damage claim was settled. I told him no, both he and I knew that once the property damage claim was settled I no longer owned the car—he did.
I told him he owed me storage fees for having stored the car for him (on my property) for this time period. I told him I would charge him the same amount per day (it would have been like $600 total) that he had paid the auto repair shop that had my car sitting on their lot from the day of the accident. I also said if he refused to pay me the storage fee before towing the car, I would file a mechanic’s lien on the car for the storage fees.
He quickly told me I could just keep the car. I told him I needed some kind of written release or acknowledgement that, on behalf of his company (i.e., the company that used the fraudulent CCC valuations), he was allowing me to keep the car.
He faxed the release over within minutes.
Was it a good idea? I guess it was. I still have the car and have half-heartedly been looking for an Altima with a blown engine so I can swap them out.
I read this board every time I get an update, just hoping that other folks are able to get a fair and reasonable settlement from these shyster insurance companies and their lackeys at CCC.
Hell, no wonder Warren Buffett always dreamed of owning an insurance company–legalized theft from the working man.
By the way, what does CCC stand for?
Cheats, Crooks, and Creeps??
Lee,
Sounds like you did well on your claim and I love your take on CCC!!!
“By the way, what does CCC stand for?
Cheats, Crooks, and Creeps??”
Like you I read all the updates to further educate myself and possabily help someone else!
~Brian~
Hmmmm. . .
At this point, and since you won your arbitration case (and, by the way, congratulations!!), you might contact the court clerk and ask for copies of any documentation from the court that could verify the law firm’s actual receipt of the judgment of award. You might also ask the court clerk, and be sure you tell the court clerk you ARE NOT asking them for legal advice, but ask the court clerk if they have any forms or informational booklets related to confirming the arbitration award as a court judgment and seeking a judgment of execution.
If I were you–and this is just my opinion–I would not deal with this obviously incompetent and inept attorney and her law firm unless it was via certified mail, return receipt requested. No more phone calls. No meetings. Nothing.
Always remember: Not written, not said.
Since you already know who the legal eaglet’s “supervisor” is, I think, if I were you, I would mail both of these legal buffoons (buffoons that clearly give the legal profession a bad name) a simple demand letter, short and sweet. I would write the demand letter to the supervisor and copy the legal eaglet. Send both demand letters and copies of the judgment of award in separate evelopes via certified mail, return receipt requested.
I think I would also say something to the effect that, since it’s been over a month and a half since the judgement, if you are forced to seek assistance from the courts in enforcing the arbitrator’s award, you intend to consult and retain an attorney to have the courts confirm the arbitration award as a court judgment and then seek a judgment of execution. You might also say that in addition to asking the courts to award you reimbursement for all your attorney’s fees and court costs, you intend to seek lost interest and return on the award, too. (I don’t know if the courts would award it, but it doesn’t hurt to ask the court).
Include a copy of the judgment of award, and demand payment within X amount of days (7 days? 10 days? 30 days? I guess you can decide what would seem reasonable to a judge or jury) from the law firm’s receipt of your demand letter.
I don’t think there’s any reason to be nasty in the demand letter, just to the point. You can call them a buffoon if want to. Heck, tell ’em I told you to. (JUST KIDDING!)
Don’t let them B.S. you that the legal eaglet was out of town on vacation or working on another case—that’s her law firm’s problem, not yours. Some of these losers just have thin skin and shouldn’t be in the legal profession. Hopefully, law firms who employee buffoons like this will put them where they belong: behind a desk or out on the street.
One article I found that might help you a little is very brief, but informative.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/adr15.htm
The article states in part:
“. . . . An arbitration award can easily be confirmed as a court judgment, which can then be used to collect payment from the losing party. . . .”
“. . . . Under both the Federal and Uniform Acts, an entry of judgment confirming an arbitration award will have the same force and effect as a judgment entered in a court initiated litigation.17 This means that the successful party in an arbitration can use the judgment confirming the award to execute against the unsuccessful party’s assets (by using all of the means available to a successful litigant in a judicial
proceeding). . . .”
This article also states:
“. . . . Most states have adopted some version of the Uniform Enforcement of Foreign Judgments Act (Uniform Enforcement Act) or the Revised Uniform Enforcement of Foreign Judgments Act, an abbreviated version of the Uniform Enforcement Act. Under û2 of the Uniform Enforcement Act, the judgment creditor registers the judgment by filing an authentic copy of it in a court of the other state. As soon as registration occurs, the court may direct a sheriff to attach available property of the judgment debtor. Sale of property cannot occur, however, until the new court enters a final judgment, and this may require a hearing. Final judgment call be entered automatically, without a hearing, if the judgment debtor fails to respond after the court obtains personal jurisdiction or, if personal jurisdiction is not possible, after the court mails notice of the enforcement proceedings to the judgment debtor. Under the Uniform Enforcement Act, a state court can execute the judgments not only of other state courts, but of federal courts as well. . . .”
You can also, for what its worth, threaten to file a complaint with the local or state bar association that this legal eaglet is a member of. Unfortunately, it usually seems to be a waste of time for laymen like you and me. The bar associations are, at least in my experience, like a mafia—they take care of their own. Don’t believe it? Do some research.
I wouldn’t threaten to file unless it’s a last ditch effort, but if you’re all out of options, why not? After one individual gets enough complaints, maybe the bar associations will slap them on the wrist.
You might also look into the Federal Arbitration Act (Federal Act) and the Uniform Arbitration Act (Uniform Act).
Just my opinion.
GOOD LUCK!!
Lee
I am writing once again to inform the insurance consumer. I recently resolved an insurance claim by arbitration order June 23, 2008. The defendants Unique Insurance Company represented by Parillo, Weiss, & Ohalloran did not filed a rejection of award within the thirty day period. Judgement of award was signed off August 29, 2008. I personally filed three forms and the clerk stamped all three. One copy for the courts, one copy for Parillo, Weiss, & Ohalloran, and one copy for myself. I have been calling Parrillo, Weiss, & Ohalloran for approximately two weeks leaving my phone number along with messages for Ms. Peg Schmal–the attorney who is assigned to this case. Ms. Peg Schmal never returned any of my calls nor did she ever come to the phone. Today is October 7, 2008 and Peg Schmal left a message with the receptionist to tell me she never received the “Judgement of award” And that she was also waiting for me. My question is if Ms. Peg Schmal never got the “Judgement of Award” why did she not return my calls two weeks ago? And most importantly why did she respond to the receptionist after I left a message with the supervising attorney? Ninteen months after my car was totalled I still have not been compensated. Once again these letters are to inform the insurance consumer about the underhanded traits used by these insurance companies and law firms as well.
Thank you very much Lee—the information you provided is very much appreciated.
Dawn I do believe many people leave comments that are only out of context. Such as myself. Secondly, each state governs their own companies. It is not a coincident that these people are complaining about the same issue. I know from personal experience about ccc valuescope, Unique Insurance Company, the law firm that represents them and the stack of information I have here doing research. Once again I, like many others are only speaking out of context. I do not believe anyone is describing detailed information concerning his or her business. You must work for the insurance company or ccc valuescope, or maybe even one of these law firms. For the record I am also speaking actual cash value even though The Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation says retail value. Finally, to make things soft and sweet why focus on retail or actual cash value in relations to totaled vehicles. Why not have the insurance company to replace the vehicle —that way there is no question as to the value, I think that would fall somewhere in your policy huh? Or should I say duh!!!
Actually Stafford, I work for a Plantiffs Personal Injury Attorney and I see the consumer get screwed everyday! I think you are confusing my comment with S. Bailey!
What my point is, is that whether you try to get fair compensation from your own insurance carrier or from the 3rd party carrier (the at-fault person that caused the accident), in the end, the insurance companies use one of these companies (CCC for example) to assess your vehicles value. These companies assessments are grossly inacurate. As I stated, in my experience at least 90% of the time they are way off of what a comparable vehicle would cost or teh “actual cash value”.
My comment was to S. Baily, he/she said that we should all read our policies and that we aren’t entitled to retail value for our totalled vehicles… at least that is how I read his/her comment.
One can only replace their totalled vehicle by going out and buying another one, probably RETAIL… that is how I’ve purchased my vehicles, how about you?
I wish we could force the insurance companies to buy a replacement but they stand firm with these evaluations and simply tell us that they will only pay from their evaluations and if our client does not accept then we will have to sue them! When dealing with a 3rd party carrier, this ends up being our ONLY recourse, to sue… seems a bit much when in the end, the insurance company wins! Once again thanks to their deeper pockets, or the tax payers deep pockets nowadays!)
And by the way, I would never work in the insurance industry! EVER!
Dawn I am sorry—-I read your comment over and you have my humble apologize. For the record I have been through much with these Insurance Companies and law firms for almost two years. It upsets me to see anyone with the audacity of trying to justify the corruption in this industry. Nevertheless, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Consumer you must be aware of comments like S. Baily –his comments are only to distract you from pursuing your claim. Personnally he sounds like he has an attitude of a loser to me!!!
After reading negative comment upon negative comment about insurance companies and CCC, one common theme plays in my head. The consumer is not reading their auto insurance policy. Auto insurance pays actual cash value or private party when a vehicle is totaled. Auto insurance does not pay retail. Many of these comments suggest otherwise, which convey’s to me, that whomever is making these comments have not read their policy.
NADA is all retail based, meaning they are typically going to be at a higher value, including the dealership markups, retail fees and detailing fees. The “moneymaker” that many of you should be refuting, are the auto dealerships. The dealerships mark up the value of the vehicle so they can turn a profit. Don’t be upset with the insurance company because they are not willing to pay for the dealership to make a profit. If you were purchasing a vehicle as a private consumer, I would venture to say that you would not reimburse the original owner for the amount the dealership marked up the vehicle when they originally purchased it.
Before critizing the “big bad insurance company” maybe you should educate yourself on what you are paying for. When you purchase an item that costs the same amount as your insurance premium, I am sure you educate yourself on the product and are aware of why you are paying $1000+ for said item. Your insurance policy is no different. If you read it, you will see that it clearly states that when your vehicle is totaled, you are compensated for the actual cash value, or market value of your vehicle.
Bottom line is, your vehicle is a piece of metal, it is not made of gold and probably just not worth as much as you think it is. Read your policy prior to making judgments.
You are not looking at the situation from a 3rd party angel… what if my claim is with the guy who hit me? There is no policy reading I can do in this case, the policy is his, not mine. The accident was his fault, his insurance company should pay, not mine… BOTTOM LINE!
I research CCC evaluations EVERYDAY at my job and only see about 10% of them come even close to being a fair offer… and I don’t just rely on KBB or NADA, I actually research what the vehicle is selling in the pricipally garaged area. In Washington State, the office of the Insurance Commisioner clearly states… Actual Cash Value = the cost to replace your car with a like car. Where am I going to get a like car? FROM A DEALER, more than likely, DUH! I have a strong suspision that you work for the insurance industry!
If insurance companies pay retail for a totaled vehicle, what is to stop a retailer from hiking up the price, well knowing the insurance company will pay it? Why would a 3rd party total loss be paid out on a retail basis and a 1st party total loss paid out private party? Are you suggesting a blanket retail markup price that each auto retailer would have to abide by? And if so, how do you regulate this? I am not suggesting that your ideas are out of the question, I just do not see a way to implement this.
Auto repair shops already markup estimates when they know the repairs are being paid for by an insurance company. (Just to cover myself prior to a comment coming back. A friend of mine worked at a repair shop and was told to markup all insurance estimates. This national chain deals specifically with many reputable insurance companies. He refused to, and was terminated.)
Vehicle’s are sold in the private party market on a daily basis. Check your local papers. Not everyone in society is out to turn a profit.
You are correct, I do work for an insurance company and adjust total losses on a daily basis. There are many instanstances where KBB and NADA are of a lesser value than CCC. Are you suggesting that insurance companies pay the lesser value regardless?
I agree that every situation is different. But just because one party is NOT at fault doesn’t mean the value of their vehicle should be increased. In addition, insurance companies are not able to purchase vehicles for people, as this would be a conflict of interest and I am sure consumers would also have something negative to say about that. Insurance companies are in the insurance business, not in the car sales business.
Consumers are not being taken to the cleaners on a regular basis. Consumers are not being realistic about their vehicle replacements. If the 3rd party compensation is not what the owner thinks it should be, they can go under their own policy, and would see that their own insurance company, more than likely, settles total losses in a similar manner. If the 3rd party doesn’t value their vehicle enough to have collision coverage, why should the “at fault party” value their vehicle? Bottom line, anyone who drives, sits or owns a vehicle puts themselves at risk. It is just part of driving. I am STILL just not understanding why insurance ccompanies should pay for a dealership to make money off of a consumer?
Just a side note to Dawn and Stafford. I will not be stooping to your level and passing judgement on either of your professions or levels of professionalism, or shall I say, lack there of.
I research values in the ENTIRE local market, that includes private party vehicles as well as dealer vehicles.
I then average out the value (that seems to be a fair way of coming up with the value if you ask me.) I take in account all factors, mileage, condition, etc… We then ask the insurance company for that fair value… the CCC values are always so much lower than ANY vehicle I find in our local area for a comparison vehicle that is for! How is that fair if the consumer cannot go find a “like” vehicle for the amount the insurance company is offering???
This is what I do EVERY DAY for individuals that feel they have to hire a plantiffs attorney because they have found out they they are being scammed by the insurance companies! SHOCKING!
My sole job is fair compensation for our clients damaged vehicle, so I am well aware of researching a “FAIR MARKET VALUE”… I am also very aware that the insurance companies rarely offer the “FAIR MARKET VALUE”!
as I said before, 90% of the time, the insurance company says “take a flying you-know-what”! Take the offer, or sue! In my opinion, that is such a horrible use of our justice system! Our firm prefers to settle, not litigate, unless forced!
S. Bailey I will take credit for the lack of professionalism. But we are speaking facts here and now that you admitted to working for an insurance company you should know the facts as well. First and far most—when you sell car insurance to the consumer –what do you use to determine the value of his or her vehicle? Simple question Mr. Bailey!!! When you determine the down payment and the monthly premiums what system would your company use? I think its a double standard here because you will use the NADA or KBB or something similiar at the retail value to jack up the down payment and monthly premiums but if he or she has an accident or in my case the car is totaled you will run to ccc valuescope—ccc valuescope is professional in this area the documentation is professional –the sources they use to justify the documentation is professional and most people will not question the documentation. Nevertheless, Mr. Baily I did my own research through the same sources ccc valuescope used and came up with a different valuation. Once again lets talk facts because professionalism has nothing to do with it–either its the truth or a lie. And right now you are trying defend your field of employment and I can not take that from you but you are not talking to the consumer who is looking for answers. I been through the whole process with you people for nineteen months –so I know how you lie!!! Don’t show up, send lawyers who just roll out of bed without washing his or her face, adjusters coming in with last night wine and sex on his or her breath, angry for not being able to explain the documentation when its being questioned, And finally getting fired for not being able to defend the company with the standard corrupted format. You see Mr. Bailey you might be here yourself complaining if the consumer pursues you as an indivdual because you will become the fall guy. You make statements here but trust me the company you work for will most likely not back you if the consumer comes at you —something for you to think about—lack of professionalism on my part—-Hello Dawn
Weeelll. . .
Bailey brings up some interesting, though veerrryyyy misleading, issues. This is isn’t a personal attack on you, Bailey, but your comments are not atypical for someone in your industry.
And I am sorry to point out Bailey, but you are wrong or misleading on several issues you mentioned in your postings and you use flawed—very flawed—logic. Without addressing each one, the largest majority of these comments made by us on this board are not in any way negative: these comments and postings are about REAL, ACTUAL incidents and experiences we’ve all had or are having at the hands of shysters in your industry.
You cannot deny that it is, in fact, your job to try and get the victim (i.e., that would most of us who have posted on this board) of your company’s client to settle for THE LOWEST offer possible and not a REASONABLE or FAIR offer. Hell, you know as well as most of us do that if you were to try and settle claims fairly, you would be out of a job very shortly, or at least your bonuses would be shot to hell.
When you speak of replacement value, I suggest you review and describe to all of us neophytes on this board something called LKQ (Like, Kind and Quality) insurance companies and appraisal companies mention in their offer. I also suggest you read our experiences more thoroughly, though I doubt you care to. CCC, at least in my case, and as I mentioned in earlier postings, used wrong makes, models as well as the wrong state and city on their fraudulent appraisal. I assure you, this was no mistake on their part.
In reference to your comment to Dawn and Stafford: no judgment was passed. We all speak from first-hand experience. I can assure you, once you are employed by these kinds of insurance mentioned on this board by us and appraisal companies like CCC, and I’m not saying your are and I hope your not, but if you are, you likely stooped far below any level we could have by fraudulently attempting to devalue our claims, and you, along with these kinds of insurance companies and CCC, have passed judgment on each of us regardless of our professions or our level of professionalism. Insurance companies look upon EACH AND EVERY CLAIMANT as an adversary—and you know it as well as we do.
Again, we could go to prison (because the insurance companies would file charges against us) if we tried to fraudulently inflate our insurance claims to the extent that shysters in your industry try to deflate claims.
We go to jail—shysters in your industry get paid big bonuses. Sure, Dawn, Stafford, myself and the rest of us are the bad guys stooping to unbelievable lows. All I can say is even a prostitute would defend her profession and professionalism the same way shysters in the insurance industry defend themselves and their industry.
I do acknowledge that I may have made some comments that may be viewed as “negative” by some.
OOPPPS! Mea Culpa.
Thank you for your very informative postings, Dawn and Stafford!
Well said, hello to you too!
If I might interject one other observation.
Dearest S. Bailey,
Please notice that this is a websiite for your industry. Look at the number of people that have found this site and complained. How many others felt taken advantage of and never found this site. Conversely, look at how many people in your industry, that no doubt visit this website on a regular basis, have aided you in prosenting your side.
I might add that what I am hearing from you is much the same that I heard from Dairyland insurance n my dealings over tmy total loss. What has happened to compassion and customer service in todays society. Instead of stooping to our level, which by the way you did, when you made the statement that you would not lower yourself to our level, why don’t you patiently show us the way and help us on our journey. Any good insurance steward should be willing to do that.
Thank you all for your time!
That is so true Glenn –I mean the insurance companies try to pay you as little as possible; however, you must do your homework far as valuation. A private owner will not be a good source of market value because we all can put a price on a car and that doesn’t mean it’s worth what you are selling it for. Secondly, you made a good point about the advertisement being weeks or months earlier. But you did not mention the condition of this vehicle. In other words if I decided to sell a Honda through Auto trade such as the one you had. I could price it at maybe $500 without any details of this vehicle. But in reality this vehicle does not have a motor, it has dents and rust, the windshield is cracked, etc. So do we consider this vehicle as being market value. Of course not—so we use different sources in determining the market value such as NADA, Kelly Blue Book,and there are many others to determine the value and the valuations are thorough. Take your time and do your homework and make sure you use the same sources that ccc valuescope use outside many of your own and trust me you will get a different response through the same source ccc valuescope use. Good luck Glenn
My recent experience with CCC Valuescope Market Report for my vehicle which was declared a total loss, leaves much to be desired.
The market report used only one vehicle to determine the value of my vehicle. Is this reasonable? My vehicle was a Honda CRV, so there could be more vehicles used.
The vehicle used for comparative purposes was shown on autotrader.com with a price, of course, the price needed to adjusted for difference, which is quite correct. However, the vehicle was advertised almost 3 months early than the date of valuation. I did call the seller and was informed that the vehicle was “priced to sell” quickly. This may not be a valid comparative due to the seller’s motivation.
When looking at comparatives currently on autotrader and adjusting for year/model, options, and mileage using the market report – the difference ranged from $2,800 to $3,900 over the value shown on the market report.
When a vehicle is totalled the owner needs to quickly find a replacement vehicle, so the luxury of time to search for the low private sale does not come into play. In order to find a replacement one needs to search through retail dealers to have the largest selection to make a decision. To think that someone that has a total loss vehicle has the time to search private sellers is fairly ridiculous.
My personal experience with CCC Valuescope Market Report has shown me that it is definitely slanted in favor of the insurance companies and does not reflect the true market value of vehicles which are total losses. Aren’t insurance companies in the business of collecting premiums and trying to pay out as little as possible on claims?
Hi Stafford,
Thanks for you words of encouragement.
Some further observations and suggestions for others. The report was prepared not in compliance with state statutes. The more I read the state statutes in this area the more potential violations I find. Individuals should review statutes governing claim settlement practices. Therefore, individuals should review the claim settlement practices within their respective states.
Individuals need to be aware that the insurance companies use storage charges and disallowance of rental days when the insured does not accept the insurance company’s offer. This is undue pressure on the consumer.
I agree with you that comp’s do not have any type of vehicle history for the comp’s, but the report does show the subject vehicle history – so there is no way to determine what is truly being compared – no way to assess quality of the comps.
The valuation does not take into effect the ability of the insured to negotiate a favorable price for a vehicle with a dealer or private party. So it is probably heavily slanted in favor of the insurance companies’ bottom line.
These are just further thoughts on this matter.
One does have to wonder if there is an enterprising attorney that will see a class act law suit with this issue?
3 days ago i recieved my report on what they would pay me for my total loss car. It stated they could not find any comp.cars in my city and shoped up to 175 miles away for cheaper cars, they found them some with 150,000 miles more than my car and said thi was comp. They also showed a diff model than what i have,no one bothered to inspect these comp. cars ,but i did. They ranged from not running well, no working a/c,windows broken ,dented,torn,cracked bondo and more. when i confronted them they were willing to change there report and are in changing their report this day to raise the value paid to me by the insur. I wonder how many other people are being cheated by this system.i forgot to mention that in 10 min on line i found 14 cars in my area,however the costs of these were much,much more than what they said they found ,oops,i guess that would have been costly for the insur.company…..thank you.
I just received a CCC Valuescope putting the total loss value of my BMW at $2500. Kelly Blue Book puts it at $5000. I cannot replace it or even repait it for the findings of CCC Valuscope.
CCC Valuescope puts my BMW total loss at $2500. I cannot replace or repair my car for that. Kelly Blue Book says it’s $5000.
Frank I understand your situation very well. If you have the time and resource I suggest you take this matter up in small claims court. But before you go this route try getting in touch with the insurance company’s GM. Lay your cards out on the table and let him know what you have in comparison to ccc value scopes valuation. Frank I know I am writing like backwards here but before all of this you have to do your research with people like NADA which is the National Auto Dealership Association and KBB —Kelly’s Blue Book. CCC value scope probably gave you some documents from auto check. You can register with auto check –give them your vin # and other appropiate information and trust me you will probably get different results. Auto Check would be a good source to use to contest ccc valuescope because its the same source they use; however, most of the information ccc valuescope provide is deleted, altered, fabricated, etc. so you have to read carefully. Once again when you get these things in order check out the GM and if he doesn’t respond take it to small claims court. In my case it took me a year to resolve this matter in small claims court and I got what I was asking for in the beginning. Good Luck to you!!!
Todd Brian is right—we all come here to share our stories and experiences with ccc valuescope. First and far most do not think your situation is isolated because this is what ccc valuescope wants you to do, and secondly do not believe everything you read in regards to documentation from ccc valuescope. You have to sit down and take your time and go over every tread of documents and trust me you will find many errors, deletions, alters, fabrications, etc. Make sure your vin #, model, make, year and everything coincides with your title. EVERY EVERY EVERYTHING—I can not stress this enough. Your personal homework and research is nothing like secondhand information from one of us. Thirdly, check the resources that ccc valuescope use and once again you will probably get a different valuation then ccc valuescope. Todd you have to be ready to weather the storm —these people are professionals at playing the time game –hoping you will eventually settle for much less than what your vehicle is worth—in many cases their theory is right; however, at this point before you do anything get in touch with the company manager and at least let them know that you are going to small claims court. Todd make sure you have your facts together in contrast of what ccc valuescope has—and do not think for a minute that these companies will be intimidated by you saying “I’m going to sue your ***” Man they here this all day everyday and only maybe two out of ten pursue and maybe one of those two win—and the one that loses is only because along the way he or she runs out of energy. Good Luck Todd and keep us all posted.
Todd, One other option that helped me was the Missouri Dept of Insurance. In Missouri, the dept. of Insurance is required by law to respond to EVERY complaint levied against an insurance company. They have the right to levy fines or even ban a company from doing business in the state if they feel it is justified. That is what worked for me in the end, but we all have had to follow our own path to get there. Good luck and keep us posted!
Todd and Frank,
Do your own research and analysis. With your information, call the adjuster’s supervisor and then the manager, if you don’t get any positive results.
Using this method and presenting my case – my total loss vehicle was repaired as the cost of the repairs fell below the state mandated floor for the percentage for determining if a vehicle was a total loss.
Even with your research and analysis you should be to win your agrument.
The insurance company knows that you are time pressured to find a car and your rental coverage stops when it is declared a total loss as well as storage charges start. With this said be sure to negotiate that the insurance covers the rental and no storage charges.
It is time consuming and a real pain. However, keep in the back of your mind that insurance companies are in the business to collect premiums not pay out claims.
The insurance companies will do whatever they can to keep their payouts as low as possible.
Todd, Hang in there until you are satisified! Read ALL the postings on this site. We have all been through this with CCC and it takes time to buck the system, but it CAN pay off. There is a lot of good information in these postings that can be used in your favor, to get a fair and just settlement. Wouldn’t it be nice if the insurance did business like the rest of us and played above board to start with?
Again….Good luck and stay after them! Post here with questions as you go and we’ll all be glad to help however we can!
I beg to differ. I have insurance in MA that pays NADA Retail Value. I switched from metLife who I had for 20 years, and when totaled my car used CCC and screwed me, although when i argued they did up the figure. I provided NADA Retail ACV, and Comp local market values form Auto Trade, and the did up the settlement to be more in line. The insurance co I have isnt the only one that uses NADA RETAIL as the ACV, which is accurate, so when you get insurance, ask the company what system they use. In CT they have to BY LAW average 2 different ones, and it is usually Auto Source and NADA or CCC and NADA.
So before you tell everyone they can’t use NADA Retail, I am here to say that is untrue, and many do…do your homework and you won’t be treated unfairly.
Thank you much Karen —your input is well appreciated. These are the issues we all have been raising recently!!!
I love this site, I only wish more were educated on this subject, it is very interesting. Comes down to doing your homework.
I have spent the entire day reading all of the postings here – found this site because my 1997 Honda Odyssey EX was deemed a total loss and the offer I was given was based on comparables that didn’t match my car. The problem is my car is very rarely found on the market. You can find a few EX’s, but even those are not a 97. It was the other drivers fault, which no one is contesting, and I am seeing a Dr. for med care after the accident – but I think I am going to need some help. I am in Seattle – Dawn can you email me and tell me where you work? Thanks for all the input everyone, I am just trying to do my research and put one foot in front of the other!
Sorry – it has been a rough couple of weeks – and after the accident my brain isn’t quite right yet. What I meant to say is that there are no 97 Odyssey EX anywhere close to me, only LX and even very few 97’s. You can find them in the East and a few in the south. So how do I go about determining the ACV?
KV you can check the market value with Auto Check, Kellys Blue Book, (NADA) National Auto Drivers Association. These sources are accepted nation wide. You can go online to the search web and type in Kellys Blue book etc. This site will ask you for your car information: year, vin #, model, make. I had to pay for auto check. Auto check is thorough— Nada is the other reputable source, Good luck !!!
KV – I work for a PI firm in Renton.
Taylor Law Firm
425.235.0202
We would be happy to meet with you and discuss you case.
I have read many comments in this thread and find them helpful. I was sure that CCC was a ***** for the insurance company. Now I have a lot of evidence to support my thinking.
My 2001 Mazda 626 ES declared totaled as there was over 10k worth of damage. Other driver at fault ran in back of me very hard. I asked for expanded search as first search was comparing the LX model and not the ES. The ES is a more expensive model. The compared cars did not have all the bells and whistles as my car – leather interior,alloy wheels, premeium sound, moon roof, 2.5 liter engine. So they did seccond evaluation and came back with same thing! I can not find a car like mine on auto trader or vehix within 500 miles of me that is listed for less than 5,900. When they are priced lower they have higher miles or not the same features. They have offered 4,400 and are playing hard ball. I need info to battle these jerks. We are not even that far apart. I would be okay with 5,300 or at least 5K. We are less than 1k apart and this guy won’t budge. I have not talked to supervisor or manager yet. How do I best argue with them.
Anthony you are now searching for answers and this is the first thing to do. There will be many problems searching for the exact car, mileage, etc. this is virtually impossible; however, this is why we have professionals in this field. Such as Auto Check, Kelly’s Blue Book, and Nada, which is the National auto dealership association. Anthony you can go online and type in one of the above names and this will take you to their website. Thereafter you will be ask a series of questions pertaining to your vehicle, such as vin#, model, make, year, mileage, etc. and in some cases they may ask you within what mile radius are you seeking. Finally, for thorough information from two of the above sources you will have to register and pay a fee of twenty dollars. But trust me it is well worth it. Because this is the same source the insurance company or should I say ccc valuescope use. However, the information given to the source by ccc valuescope or your insurance company is tainted. The source will only give you information according to the information you give them. Take your time and be patient –you will be happy with your findings. Good Luck!!!
Anthony:
You’re on the absolute right track. Just like I posted below, when I went above the lowly adjuster to his manager I had my information laid out just like a book report in high school and countered his offer page by page, paragraph by paragraph, sentence by sentence and word by word-and I mean I literally went through it step by step as listed above. Of course, I sent a copy of my report to the manager beforehand with even more documentation than I had sent the lowly adjuster. It was just like a high school debate each time I spoke with either of them (and I followed up with a certified letter varifying and documenting the issues we covered in the conversation).
It just depends on if you calculate your time spent being worth fighting for the extra $$$.
Good luck.
I’m glad to find this site. I was feeling pretty lonely. Yes, same story, CCC and ins. company lowballing with no concern of fairness or hardships they’re causing. I’m trying to hold on but I’m getting tired. I went several rounds with a Geico Stepford wife. She had all the excussed lined up as to how CCC calculated everything. None of it made scense. I didn’t know about being charged for storage of the totaled car if I didn’t bend over and take their offer. Not sure where to go from here. If we accept the lowball offer ($1200) that we need for a down payment for another car, does that mean we have no recourse by due process after the settlement? I’m beginning to feel desperate.
Welcome to the club Don—upon receiving that $1200 I believe you will also have to sign some papers –and those papers will basically outline the agreement. Meaning –you agree to the total value of your vehicle ($1200) and by signing this check the issue is now resolved. SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. This is a long process and if you can not weather the storm then accept the offer. The bottom line is your situation and if its worth fighting for to you as an individual. Consider the time you must put in, money you must invest, and the stress it will cause. Nevertheless, this is not to discourage you, its to prepare you for whats ahead. I personally think you should fight if you believe you been wronged. Good luck Don!!!
My car was rear ended by a USAA insured….they totaled my vehicle and gave me a low ball offer. I completed a detailed audit of CCC’s valuation and they results a squed towards the lower end to the tune of 25%. I’ve tried the State of Ohio Insurance complaint route with no results. It doesn’t make sense to hire an attorney, so what are my options?
If you are having problems with CCC’s Valuescope valuation, then file a complaint with the FTC at 10877034204357. Other than a class action lawsuite, this is the only method I know to stop them from this unfair practice.
Katy you have many options—First and far most get all your information and facts in order. Lawyers are very expensive and many tactics used by lawyers are only to win the case. However, a lawyer can never stand against the facts of your case if you present the facts and truth before the courts or abritrators. Secondly, you have to read all information coming from your insurance company. Believe me you will be amazed by the information that has been altered, fabricated, and deleted. Of course you will have to check the same sources, and the validity of the information provided to you. Finally, be prepared for a long ride. Katy once you get your facts in order–and before doing anything else–make sure you give the insurance company the opportunity to make good by getting in touch with the General Manager or someone in charge. Good luck Katy and if there is anything else I can assist you with do not hesitate to hit the insurance journal and I will find you.
I was in a wreck where a teenager rearended me at a red light and pushed me 6ft into another car. insurance is claiming my vehicle is totaled. I have ran comparisons on my SUV for 6 months now becuase i was wanting to trade it in. The insurance is offering me 3,700 when I can only find one vehicle the same as mine, but a year older and more miles then mine at 5,495. Ive pretty much had the insurance agent handling my claim tell me im a 21year old that doesnt know what im doing when it comes to evaluations, little does he know my boyfirend has been a Chevy evaluation agent for 7 years. We offered to settle at 5,600 when easly mine is worth 7,400 If they dont budge we will be seeing them in court. CCC is an opinion on what the lowest cost could be. You are welcome to have your own apreasil on your vehicle, and i suggest you do it and make the insurance pay you 100.00 bucks it cost.
I have been dealing with Unitrin Specialty. they insured a woman who let a drunk driver behind the wheel of her car. he ran a red light totaled my 96 dodge neon. in the market i cant find one less than 1500.00 unitrin went off of what ccc valuation told them my car was worth which was 1023.00 the insurance co stopped paying for my rental as of today i have no car to get back and forth to work and no money to replace my car it has been thirty days since this happend they say the check is in the mail any suggestions that would help PLEASE
Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company are using CCC Valuescope to total loss my vehicle. The comps they used to evaluate my car deminished the value causing it to fall in the total loss column. I have not settled with them yet. I just sent paperwork to a class action lawfirm in San Diego. I am going to fight them tooth and nail. I decided to fix my car myself and have an appraisal done when it is finished while my lawyer subrogates to get my money back.
I’m not sure if any of their other victims on this board has an opinion on this one, but if I were in your shoes and I were going to fight these bastards “tooth and nail”, I would ensure that I had plenty of clear, detailed photographs of the damage before I did the repairs.
Also, though I’m not sure, it may also help your cause if you obtained 1, 2 or even 3 other appraisals before you do the repair work.
Regards,
Lee
I’d like to join in on the class action lawsuite…can anyone provide information??
what a great site! i to am a victim of ccc my 99 ford e 350 van was stolen from florida and was recoverd in knoxville tenn burned to a crisp. all personal property and equipment in van of course was gone. nada/ kbb states acv is $6100 to 6500. my insurence co travlers offerd $2600. i have paid more in premiums in the last 2 years then what they offerd. what a joke!! is there still a class action law suit? ebay shows market value + there is no way i can replace it for $2600 even on ebay. the prices on ebay much reflect the nada/kbb book prices. i would like to know what ccc stand for? crooks 3 x
Patrick what you have to understand is that because the insurance company offers you something does not mean your car is worth the offer. It also does not mean you have to take the offer. Thirdly, we have to understand the Insurance Company’s point of view—to them its a business; to us as individuals its personal. In other words the company’s guidelines, policies, and standards are set for us all. Don’t get me wrong I am not an advocate for the Insurance Company. I am telling you these things to get your focus in another area concerning your issue. We will help you and inform you of our experiences but you will have to fight and it will take some time but you will feel good when its over if you fight for what you believe. I wish you luck and I hope this will help you in some way. Good luck
Patrick,
We’ve all been where you are and we feel your frustration, but Stafford is right. It’s not personal and if you can keep your cool while dealing with the Insurance Co. you will come out better in the end. Read through the postings here and you will find a lot of good advice on how to proceed. The insurance company counts on you being in a pinch and being willing to settle just so you can get back on the road. They will drag their feet until you think you are going to loose your mind! It took me a year to double their first offer.
After looking through the comments here, you still have a question, feel free to post and one of us will be glad to give you our opinion. Keep in mind though, these are just our opinions from experience with these guys (CCC = Crooks X3, I like that!), so you may need to customize what we tell you to fit your circumstances.
Good luck and let us know if we can help!
~Brian Williams~
I rarely post a comment on a blog, but I felt I needed to post on this subject. My 2000 Honda Accord was recently hit from behind and was deemed a total loss by Geico. They offered me a very lowball figure for my vehicle. Well, I too was told that Geico does not use KBB, Edmonds, etc. The claims adjuster sent me a copy of the CCC Valuescope local market report. I reviewed it with a fine tooth comb and was able to point out discrepancies in the report. I was able to use there own valuation methodology against them as they selected vehicles from only one city in Delaware which did not account for people living in rural communities.
“The Valuation Methodology states that “using a weighted average results in a more accurate Local Market Value as the vehicles most similar and closest to the loss vehicle (nearest to the loss vehicle’s garage location) contribute more to the value than less similar, more distant vehicles”. However, their report used vehicles over 90 miles (in a metropolitan area) from my home (located in a rural area) and did not take into account mileage used by city drivers vs. rural drivers.
In addition, I contact each dealer/private owner that they claim they used to make the valuation. One of the vehicle used, was not for sale (list for sale by a private owner). The other dealership could not recall if they ever had the vehicle listed on the valuation report, so I had no way of knowing what condition the vehicle was in or what the dealer actually sold the vehicle for. The vehicles that were used in the report were allegedly published in news papers several months prior to my accident, so I couldn’t have went out a purchased these vehicles even if I wanted to.
The report ballooned its deduction for ‘so called’ interior conditions. To make a long story short, I compiled all needed information, including finding comparable vehicle closer to my rural community and made a counter offer for a price I felt I could live with. My adjuster reviewed all of my information and contacted me the next day to accept my counter offer. It was a lot of work, but I was able to get about $1000.00 more than the original offer.
Great job and thank you for sharing. You put the work in and received great results.
WAY TO GO, CAROLYN!
At least you seem to have been dealing with someone that appears to have had at SOME credibility and, dare I say, maybe a sense of ethics?????
WAY TO GO, CAROLYN!
At least you seem to have been dealing with someone that appears to have had at SOME credibility and, dare I say, maybe a sense of ethics?????
This is NUTS! I have read these posts and it seems I am in the same boat. Unfortunately it is my son’s car and he is in college without wheels. USAA will not back away from the CCC Valuescope report despite the glaring holes in it. They provided comparable trucks a year newer and listing for $1000 less than the my-year comparable truck. Then they took off another $450 because the comparables were newer model years. This grossly skewed the average downward by $1450 and that was before you look at options or mileage. USAA doesn’t understand how CCC gets these numbers and when they put me on with a CCC representative, all they could say was that it was a proprietary formula and they have been in business for over 25 years. Basically saying to me “how dare you question our findings”. I did end USAA 6 same year comparables to use, but they refused. Are there magic words to use with USAA to get them off my dime?
The easiest words to use if USAA is your insurance carrier is that you want the amount of loss settled by appraisal. It costs money, but in the cases i have been involved in, money well spent.If in fact they are your insurance company, want the amount of the loss settled by appraisal, send me your contact number via e-mail and i will call you.
I have been battling USAA for over 3 months now, since 7.06.17. I am considering getting an independent appraiser. Thank you!
Hi Kathy. I have been going back and forth with USAA over a total loss for 4 mnths now. Their practices are really fraudulent and thy manipulate the numbers. That sounds like a drastic thing to say, but you would be horrified if I went throug it h with you! I could go on for pages. Did you resolve your situation? How? Please let me know. I can’t stand much more of this. I think I have no choice but to sue them at this point. Fortunately, I can do this wtihout spending money on attorneys fees. But its still a big hassle. If you want to pursue them, let me know and we might be able to do this as a group.
Thanks, Jen
3.1.0. 9*0*3* >0>7>1>7
There is one honest insurance company out there. My neighbors car rolled out of the driveway and T-Boned my 1996 Olds 98 sitting in front of my house. My neighbor had State Farm Insurance on her car. They contacted me the next day and made an appointment to come out and look at the damage, which looked very minor to me. The inspector showed up 10 minutes earily for the appointment and pointed out several things I had not noticed. He then looked at the rest of the car and decided my car was extra clean and therefore did not meet the 80% of value guideline to total it. The inspector told me had it been totaled he could give me a check on the spot for $2850 (I paid $2400 for the car 3 years ago) but since it was repairable they would have to run the numbers at the office and get back to me.
The next day I received a phone call and they offered me $2725 for the damage and I accepted. 4 days later the check arrived. A new strut for $150 and a front end allignment for $75 and I am back on the road.
This was such a difference from my experience 9 months earilier when I had to deal with Dairyland Insurance and CCC, that we called our insurance company and ask if the used CCC. It took a while, and talking to several people, but we finally found out that yes, they did. We told them that was not acceptable to us and we were leaving them. We are now with State Farm! Should anything happen now that is our fault, I know the other party will not have to suffer through what we have all had to put up with! I also feel I am supporting a comapny that has the same moral values I do. Thanks for listening to my story.
~Brian~
Thank you for sharing Brian.
I agree! I too have State Farm and was rear-ended on the freeway in March. State Farm handled my total loss so quickly and they were more than fair! I was paid almost $5k more than I would have accepted for my totaled Mercedes! I was ecstatic to say the least! I work for a PI attorney and have found this to be the case with State Farm more often than not. I would encourage those insured with other carriers to make the switch! I have been with them for 15 years and they have been great! I cannot say that about ANY OTHER carrier! Especially the ones that rely so heavily on the BS CCC evaluations!
Dawn whats up? Long time no see huh? Tell me—how are those kittens coming along? lol
I have let the South Carolina Department of Insurance review the CCC Evaluation and they contacted Nationwide , who are suppose to be updating my evaluation because of discrepancies in that evaluation. I am waiting on them for an updated evaluation. I since been in contact with the lawfirm, Krinsk and Finkelstein in San Diego, California. I spoke with Mr. Jeffrey Krinsk , who informed me that I have a very good case. Anyone who has been a victim of Nationwide’s bad faith practice please contact jrk@classactionlaw.com.
after my september 14th post i took all info that i gatherd on here from other post and called back insurance co and said the comps they gave had been sold six months prior and some had sold for more then their comps said. because i called the dealers. i then ask i if they [my insurance co] knew that ccc was involved in a class action law suit because of lowballing claims? reply no not at all.i said at what point do i call my lawyer? they said they would check into this and get back to me. the next day they called and decided to change their tune of an offer of $2.600.00 at first to the sum of $5.800.00 settlement. i agreed.my point keep fighting for whats right it my take time but but worth it. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !!! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP IN THIS MATTER. PAT.C P.S THEY TOLD ME THEY WOULD NOT USE CCC ANY LONGER DUE TO I INFO I GAVE THEM.
Way to go James!!! GREAT job!
I recently had accident not at my fault, got hit fromthe back. My insurance did aprisal with the ccc valuation on my 2002 nissan maxima GLe and the price that they offered almost 3000 less then the actual value on kbb is. What should I do? For the money that they are offered me now i cant even buy anything close to my car that they claim is total.
Welcome to the club Babara. I can feel your agitation. Nothing like getting a lowball figure via letter or phone call huh? Well Barbara the first step is to prove your car to be worth more than what the insurance company is offering you. Check Kelly’s Blue Book, Auto check, etc. make sure you provide detail information about your car–such as GLE, sedan, miles, year, condition etc. This is very important. Likewise check the information the insurance company is giving you. How are they determining the value. For example, one headlight is missing, cracked windshield, etc. go over the paperwork carefully. After you have taken care of all your business and if the settlement offer is still outrageous to you, call the Insurance Company and ask to speak to a manager or supervisor I would suggest going to the company. Explain in detail the differences in their assessment compared to yours and make it clear how important it is for you to have a car soon as possible. If the company does not comply make it clear that you will be seeking other damages if you have to pursue this matter. Good luck Barbara
Barbara,
In addition to Staffords excellent suggestions, take the time to read all the postings on this site. There is a lot of good info here and most of us had to tweek our approach as the situation dictated. Learn from the others here that have gone before you and you should have a good result. Feel free to write back if you have other questions, we’re all in your corner!!
I see that Stafford and some others are truly knowledgeable. I too have had a car totaled and as a third party claimant I am a bit “hanging out there” The CCC valuescope only used two vehicles for their analysis, neither of which were the top of the same top of thee line Toyota Celica GTS, but were different bodied and smaller engined ST and GT models. One was from a dealer and was insepcted by the CCC valuescope filed team and seems to me to be an Ok comparable. The other was a private seller that CCC valuescope did not inspect. Surely they need to inspect the vehicles in order to arrive at their adjustments in baseline value. But for this unsen vehicle they made no “baseline adjustment” That seems plain wrong to include such a vehicle as the car was for sale very cheaply (25% of the NADA price) and likely had many problems but the point is no one can say for sure…! Also, in Maryland these valuations are required to be “statistically valid.” For anyone who is at all familiar with statistical methods having a sample size of two does not allow meaningful analysis. They should have a sample size of at least 10. But of course CCC valuescope is really being paid by the insurance companies to try and find the lowest value comparable car. Seems to me that this situation requires Federal Legislation to get an even playing field.
Yep, you’re right, Roger!
The only way to alleviate this industry-wide fraud is for the government to step in.
We consumers don’t need protection from companies like CCC and the insurance companies who choose to use these fraudsters–we consumers need protection from the con artist executives and lawyers who run them. These insurance company executives and lawyers should be in jail for their fraudulent business practices.
I’ve said it before in postings below and I’ll say it again: Each of us would be facing insurance fraud charges and jail time if we attempted to fraudulently INFATE insurance claims the way CCC and the insurance companies who use them try to fraudulently DEFLATE our claims.
AHHHHHhhhh. . . that felt good. I hadn’t posted in a while and REEAALLLLYYY felt good to emphasize the hypocrisy in our insurance laws.
And Barb, you should read all the postings below for some insite and suggestions, and remember that these shysters don’t give a damn about ethics, morals or you and your family; they just care about how much money they can cheat each of us out of.
What in the world is going on with the lawsuit? I have asked for updates since sending in the Claim Form in 2006 and have been put off. My last attempt for information in the form of a letter just came back to me as undelieverable. The Total Loss website is no longer active. WTF ! How long does it take to get an answer on a suit that occurred in 2006?! They have always had an address where they can reach me. I have contacted the 2 attorney offices listed in the original notification. Does anyone know anything about the lawsuit? This is ridiculous! Thank you for your help.
I am currently having this very same issue with my insurance adjuster thru Nationwide Ins Co and CCC One. CCC One is trying to compare my daughters vehicle in clean, great condition with vehicles 75-98 miles away, the first vehicle in CCC comparison was an auction sold vehicle because it had so many issues with the body and mechanically, the second vehicle did not even exist per that dealer but they did have another vehicle fitting some of the description for more then twice the price CCC was stating, and the thrid vehicle listed again was not a vehicle on the lot but that dealer had one that was 2 years older that was in complete dispair. I will do everything I can in order to fight this. Including Attorney General, Insurance Commisioner (I do believe they are breaking the law by not supplying requested information such as comps and reports), I have even considered an attorney as my other child was in the vehicle as well in which was injured. Sad really to only expect the fair value of your vehicle, not even market value and the insurance is still taking a low blow to you.
I am just now going through the same process. I have been offered $10,000 for my totalled car but I cannot find the same model for less than $12500 and then there is tax on top of that. The new tires (2 weeks prior – I still have the reciept) they told me “tough luck”! Everything they have listed is 100 miles from me, how can that be fair? After telling them I’m not happy with their assesment they more or less said “so sue me”. These people really need taking down a peg or two. They are just bullies.
Lynda – I too went through what you are going through and they basically told me to sue them…..and I did so to speak. I filed a formal complaint with the Insurance Board and the Attorney General. I was originally offered $3000 for a vehicle that I could find no lower than $7500. Well after filing my complaints and proving they had falsified the reports….I walked away with $25,000….and the pleasure of laughing in the gentleman’s face that told me I wouldn’t get over $3000 and I might as well take it and shut up. Don’t give up the fight if you know you are right….
Can you share with me that state that you reside in? I filed with the Ohio State Insurance Commissioner and they laughed in my face.
I have recently battle with USAA who uses CCC Valuescope, and I have calls to the Ex Director level. The games that USAA has used consists of having staffing in training and not returning calls for over 6 days, other heads of departments leaving in the middle of negotiations never to call back.
As this adventure has been a fight about “win” on their part, I have managed to increas the very fraudulent evaluation from CCC to an additional $700. I am still in the middle of this battle and requesting in any intelligent life lines out there who could help, as this battle is not over.
They are so anxious for me to send in my title to them so they could send only 75% of the devalued amount. I am still battling for $644 more. I have gotten these alleged crooks to remove one vehicle that was out of state, which is against IL law, so with all my vehicle history with a licensed certified dealer mechanic, the car fax on the vehicles they chose with no impacted history which of course I cannot inspect [phantom cars] there is this deduction I wanted to point out to all; what is a “Baseline deduction?” I had this very slow talking Texan tell me that it was (bottomline) nothing more than a prepping charge thaqt dealers pass on to the consumer when they purchase a call off the lot. Thus, USAA holds that amount back as another way to keep in their pockets. Has anyone heard about that one?
Let me know if you know what to do at this juncture…it looks like BBB, Atty General, Insurance Board, and a Class Action Suit. After what they have put me through and the finance charge I will be paying for their delays and tactics, I will be writing to all that I know. One insurance consumer advocate is Birny Birnbaum…keep that name for a reference to look up to see what he has done to try and stop the corrupt practice by eliciting this credit scoring policy which ultimately raises our premiums by using modules. I have sites and documents to stay informed on that issue, as we need this stopped. VA was successful and as they were able to view the “black box data”, once that happened they did away with the evil practice of their systematic scoring which ultimately only benefits them.
State of insured: Pennsylvnia
Recently had car totaled and was offered $2,600 as settlement — based on CCC One Mkt Valuation.
Red Book values car at $5,275, and NADA $4,350 — averaging the two arrieved at $4,813.
Question…
1) Insurer’s duty to insured…”fair claims handling”
2) Fraud — CCC falsification of data, remedies?
3) Conflict of interest — CCC Services Inc works exclusively for collission shops and the Insurer, for a fee.
Donna I fear many consumers are being damaged by their Insurers and CCC One…just look at all the posts preceeding yours…please let us know what state you are in.
Thanks for the postings, folks it is helping knowing I am not alone.
USAA increased my vehicle by $43 after removing an out-of-state vehicle on the CCC report that should not have been there in the first place, thus stealing my time and arguing this point to exhaustion. (what does that do for healing?) The car they removed would have been beneficial had the dealer listed and took the listed price, however at this price; $15,995 I would guess it should have helped my value, but the dealer would “take it” at a $5,400 loss. I asked other dealers and the shock and the reaction for that much mark up was not believable Only this time and the big increase was : Ta Da $43. WOW!
True Story:
USAA will quickly write a check for a member’s neighbor’s dog in a fight for get this;roma and massage therapy, but they put members though this? Who are they for? They can put members in vulnerable positions drag this on, not return calls and when they do; it is late right before closing on Friday. I know how they will quickly write a check for the other person, but play the game with the injured member.
The claims adjuster, Sherri and Jennifer in Medical were the kindest of all, the rest….sorry! I have choice words for one person recently, but my prayers are they will come quickly to a fair settlement that has lasted for 3.5 weeks.
BTW how long did it take others to get their CCC report? USAA had it for 17 days before they sent it to me. 20 days after my accident I got it.
Has anyone had this:
When I saw that the adjuster had marked my car down as it “appeared to have scratches in the area where my car was not damaged” I asked where was that? He hesitated, and said that he saw some areas. folks the thought I had was, must have been on the rear view mirror, as this was a roll over!
My car went airborne after an 8 month old Yokohoma Tire went flat. down a ditch up the hill crashed on one side and flipped. I asked, Sir, where was that area? His reaction was a “back paddling” attitude, hoping I was doing better. I told him I would be doing a lot better if you had not devalued my vehicle, as this has caused extreme stress.
Yes, a slight brain concussion and major whip lash, so the nausea attacks come after I have to talk with those who want to devalue my vehicle and this upsets me, anyone had this experience yet? Twice now I have equated this mistreatment to my progress. I not one to lick wounds, but come on. I went back to work not to go on disability for lighter duty, but I am having physical issues now…am I alone?
I am in the state of California. But I have found that if you find out and know all your rights, you can get what you deserve. It does take some work on your part, but do it and let’s not let these guys get away with what they are doing to people. They are hoping people don’t know their right and just accept what they are saying AND just go away…
Donna, you are so right.
The homework preparation has consumed my life.
I have a call into the IL Insurance Dept to let them know what I have learned.
CCC is deduction a “Baseline cost” this is only if you purchase the vehicle from a dealer. This is not a “warranty” charge it for prepping the vehicle to get it ready. Now what dealer in their right mind would say, this is the price of the vehicle on the “listed” price and then tell the customer, OH BTW, you need to pay an additional $447 if you want me to change the oil, check it out, wash it, etc. it will cost you like a dealer would not already have the car ready on the show lot..or have any checked out the vehicle. These are charges that CCC Valuescope should be accountable for, besides using vehicles from out-of-state or out of the area and claiming there are with in the 50 mile area…try 70 + miles according to Map Quest.
Thanks everyone, for contributing…I did my homework and will share what I did.
It took time and they want to work you, however that does not mean CCC is right.
Here is what I did and learned what USAA did wrong.
First may I suggest if a representative does not get back to you in a timely manner to give you a quote, ask to speak to the Co-Director or two steps higher. I spoke to a person who has now left the department [so do you think she knew that was going to happen >wink< you and I know that] She played the game with this conversation [paraphrasing] 'Oh, you know USAA would not mistreat a member and that we would never low ball a member' Bla Bla. She never returned my calls, so that made two representatives ignoring the situation, and 8 days later and no phone call. I am dealing with no one but someone who "is assisting on the file." When I got the very low ball quote>>>>
Here is the question:
How did you come to that amount?
She would not give me an answer, however wanted to know if I got my 11 page evaluaton…I thought WHAT? an evaluation…NO ABSOLUTELY NOT
[here is when I learned USAA had kept the CCC Valuescope from me for over 20 days from the accident]
I called the adjuster, who told me that they had the documentation for 17 days. Why would they not want me to have it? HHHMMM? I would guess they just wanted me to accept $1800 less and go on my merry way. On this conversation I learned from the adjuster also that when he makes a call to the vehicle owner he was told that if someone does not return his call within 2 hours, he is not to call back. [so we are be connected to our phones 24/7 I guess]
Here is when he could have made a fair evaluation if he knew my vehicle was a roller over, but there was no conversation, as no one told me to listen or look for a call from a different area code, and if this person wanted me to know who he was, he could have at least pronounced his name or spelled it on his voice mail. When he learned what my vehicle went through, I wanted to know how he determined there were prior scratches? How ridiculous it was to learn that his determination was based on a few undamaged areas, HAH where? Under the seat? This could have eliminated a week and additional $500 or slightly less to my already devalued vehicle.
My fight…was to substantiate my claim on every area. I provided and faxed 35 pages of my vehicle’s total mechanical history from a licensed dealer from day one. This would eliminate a “reconditioning” [and should have eliminated a baseline deduction of $447 too if I could have known earlier what that ridiculous amount was, maybe the CEO’s vacation plan/or golden parachute >wink
Sarah…just so you know CCC Valuescope was created many years ago by insurance adjusters to have a “baseline” price to go by on totaled vehicles.While doing my research I spoke to one of the creators of this report (who help create it many, many years ago). Insurance companies have now taken it and abused it.
Some of the thing I did:
-took pictures of the car after the accident (from the inside out, top to underneath. This helped me dispute ALOT of what the CCC had to say
-I refused to sign over the title until I was satisfied with the settlement – This meant the insurance company had to pay the salvage yard for all the storage until we settled. And this also meant the salvage yard could not touch the car until I signed it over – if they did the insurance company would be held responsible – that is if I decided to salvage the car
-I filed a formal complaint with the California Department of Insurance.
These are just a few things I did. But most important….DOCUMENT everything…every conversation, phone call, mailing, names, time, employee numbers…EVERYTHING…This was the biggest thing to help me win my case, because I had written every conversation down, my photos helped dispute the CCC report and so on…
It took me 9 months to settle but I got what I wanted…and I also made them pay for the rental car I had during that entire time..
I hope this help…
How does one become part of thisclass action? I am also a victim of CCC One in cohoots with USAA.
4-2-2014
I am currently going through a hassle with GEICO who used CCC One to value my car for a total loss accident….the value they appraised my car at is around $1000 less than the value I obtained through NADA and other various independent websites…what do I do…I cant seem to get GEICO to have a Claims Rep who has authority to discuss this issue to call me so we can come to an agreeable price?
I’ve been in the insurance biz for 30+ yrs. you do not have to accept what they offer. Tell them you want them to replace the vehicle with the same specs as what you had. Insurance must put you back the way you were before the accident!
I see this was a couple years ago. CCC estimated my vehicle at $5,000 less than NADA nd $3,000 less than the lien holders estimate. What did you end up doing?
Accident on Jan. 12, 2016, with a car only 55 days after purchase. Was stopped at a redlight and rear ended by pick up truck. Both parties insured by USAA. Received initial settlement offer based on CCC ONE valuation and am disputing it.. I reside in Florida, but accident happened in Mississippi. Would appreciate any suggestions. Their offer amounts to 18% depreciation for those 55 days.
Looks like they should of been evaluating it longer then 5 years, they are out to screw all third party claims, they are looking to for people who want quick money in hand and dont care about the value of their vehicle. I reside in IL, was hit by a driver whom has Bristol West, she was ticketed, the insurance company has taken 100% liability. Not only was the price $5,000 off my value, but they are refusing to pay tax, title transfers. They initial evaluation for CCC One was $300 then the value of the vehicle in the poorest condition.
My RV insurance company RLI out of Illinois used CCC to value my total loss motorhome. CCC stated in their Valuation that the amount of $68,000 was the verified amount on the same unit from a dealer in Florida. I contacted the dealer whom sent me the actual bill of sale on the unit…it was $90,800. Where did CCC come up with $68,000? I sent the Bill of Sale copy to the insurance company (total proof) and they are still siding with CCC to screw me out of thousands!!!! I need an attorney
I would like to sign up for the class action suite CCC evaluation
Wow! I thought I was the only one cheated by Allstate Insurance Company using CCC-One. But saw this forum and soon realized there are thousands of people who have been screwed out of millions of dollars! How much longer must this be tolerated? I had a 2000 Toyota Tundra Limited in very good condition until I hit a patch of black ice and totaled the vehicle. I paid $8400 for the vehicle less than three weeks before the accident and in fact, I did not even make my first payment. Allstate using CCC-One offered me $5400 after deductible. The bank loaned on NADA book value of $8400 and to secure their loan they never would have loaned that much if they knew they would never recover their financial risk. But Allstate saved $3000 using the corrupt methodology of this crooked evaluation company. Everytime a write a check out for a “dead horse loan”, I have a bad taste in my mouth for Allstate and CCC-One. Can anyone help stop this insurance industry ripoff?
A February 2016 head-on crash totaled my 2001 Blazer. The other driver was cited. His insurance (Nationwide) sent me a CCC-One report that evaluated all vehicles as “average.” The report says my Blazer was worth 2,708.00. I submitted invoices and receipts for more than 1,200.00 showing that I maintained the Blazer and it was in very good to excellent condition. Nationwide added 92.00. NADA valued the Blazer at 3,850.00. If there is a class action suit, where do I sign up? If there is not a class action suit, how do we get one started?
I am planning to consult a lawyer next week. It would be helpful if I could show other CCC reports trying to rip-off other people.
If this site will allow me to post my email, please send your report to sstarkey01@msn as soon as possible.
I’m having the same trouble with Farmers who totaled my 2002 Volvo V70 wagon last week. Vandals broke two windows and the glove box but Farmers deemed it a total loss because it is a 2002 and has high miles. It is, however, in perfect condition. I’ve hired an appraiser and for a couple of hundred dollars in appraiser fees, I expect that my settlement will be substantially higher than Farmer’s CCC low-ball. In prior posts I’ve read about a lot of pain, suffering and bureaucratic paper work that wastes hours. I’d really encourage all who are seeing this post to simply move IMMEDIATELY to a professional appraiser who is licensed in your state and save yourself the heartache. As consumers, we simply do not have the knowledge or skill to successfully negotiate against trained verbal assassins whose sole purpose in life is to settle claims for as little as possible. I am relieved to now have someone in my corner who can deal with “John,” the adjuster from Farmers, who was miserably pedantic, demeaning and bullying during our conversation, yesterday, when he issued their low-ball offer.
I live in Los Angeles. CA. I have Geico INS and they used CCC One to evaluate my 2011 pristine condition Harley Davidson Road glide ultra after it was totaled in a hit and run. . 1 year ago i received a call asking me to switch to Geico and i saved some money but not in the long run ,,at that time i asked the rep how much was my bike covered for in the event of a accident ,and then told her the cost of the bike was 26,000 when i bought it ,and she told me that what ever the blue book value was plus 3000 dollars in accessory coverage so i felt confidant in switching ,, CCC one said my bike was average condition which is a lie i took meticulous care of that bike ,,,and they said the value was 13,999 i have went to Harley Davidson dealer ships and the lowest in great condition i can find is 16,995 and Geico is giving me a prorated amount on my accessories it a joke one example is my tour pac cost 1199.00 they are giving me 119 dollars i have not accepted the offer im still fighting
Did Geico give you the CCC valuation report to see for yourself? In my claim (story above) I was given a report that told of adjustments made but not disclosed so I could not understand what was happening.
Can you email me the CCC report? Send it to sstarkey01@msn so I can examine it.
going through CCC undervaluation right now, pretty amazing this is legal – I have the CCC report provided by the insurance company (rated D-) and the
Can you email me the CCC report? Send it to sstarkey01@msn so I can examine it.
As an experienced statistician the CCC valuation is highly biased and set up to lower the total loss claim amount. This thread has helped me push back on the other guy’s insurance after my legally parked car was hit. All of the 3 comps the report uses to value my car are not in equal or better condition and the adjustments to make them “comparable” do not line up to what I’m seeing in the market. I spoke with all 3 dealerships, all comparable cars were thousands more then what the CCC adjusted value came to. The Nationwide adjuster mgr said he is sticking to the CCC one amount and will not consider an independent appraisal if I choose to pay for one. I have no choice but to look into legal options. Please let me know if you’re experiencing a similar situation–there’s strength in numbers.
Hi Christine. I had a similar situation recently with my own Liberty Mutual policy. I was able to get them to abandon the CCC report numbers, but it took some effort, and unfortunately it was my policy because the driver that rear ended my vehicle was uninsured, so I was able to threaten to move my other insurance policies. I have a law degree and basically just started to approach the issue as if I were preparing my own class action, after presenting all my local comps that the valuation should have used instead of the ones they did use, I asked the following questions and demanded answers to them.
1. Does the CCC valuation report exclude from consideration for Comp vehicles any vehicle with too high a list or take price?
2. If it does, does it exclude vehicles with too low a list or take price?
3. Please demonstrate the mileage adjustment calculations. I was told that the value per mile is .035, with an average mileage of 118800, my mileage is 87207.
4. Do the three Comp vehicles in my valuation report also have a .035 per mile adjustment value? Please demonstrate the adjustment calculations for those vehicles as well.
The mileage adjustment questions had to do with the fact that I was given a .035 per mile number and couldn’t for the life of me make it work. And the mileage adjustments for the comps I couldn’t even make come to consistent numbers. My lawyers senses were going crazy. The adjuster manager offered to talk to a rep from CCC to go over the numbers with me in the same breath she tossed the report and offered me a boost in offer of nearly 25%. Obviously I had some leverage, but asking very pointed questions about specifics with no room to avoid the question got them to move pretty suddenly after what had been several rounds of “final offer”.
As was mentioned earlier by others, I also wouldn’t turn over possession from the shop until we reached a deal, which seemed to drive them crazy. I imagine I could’ve gotten more from them if I had dug deeper, but this was about two weeks to get them to move.
Hope that offers some help, best of luck.
Once again the ccc market valuation report cuts my trucks value by $2000,00 NADA and Edmonds value my 2005 aviator @ 8,000 with 122,000 miles on it
The insurance company “Nationwide” which was the persons who hit and rolled my truck by running a red light uses this report to hold me a gunpoint and tell me that’s all there going to give me and like it.
The report is comparing my truck to 3 others 1 with 157,911 miles comp 2 114,060 comp 3 168,959 miles comp 2 and 3 are over 100 miles away. plus to top it off the updated listings that were pulled from “auto trader” were dated between 11/29/16 and 12/07/16 and no longer available.. What the H#$%. I thought the insurance is supposed to return you back to whole and give you enough to replace what you lost.
I sent local dealer listings of like vehicles that were year range of 2003 to 2004. there were no 2005 aviators listed because it was a limited production truck 03-05 that was it. So Nationwide sends me this response. “As far as the comparable vehicles go, CCC One will use vehicles that they have inspected as and reviewed all options for as comparables. Outside dealer adds are not used. ”
Outside dealers?? what!!!
Anyway that’s my story, would love to get my additional 2,000 back that there stealing from me
accident happened 2/9/17
Hi Christine, Bill, David and others. Did you receive a seemingly low valuation from CCC One?
Those of you who have the comps VIN #’s from the CCC One report, if you would be willing to share those VIN’s with me and your vehicle VIN, It may be helpful in the research for a possible class action suit. I had just gone through a total loss claim myself that was undervalued by $4400 so I feel your frustration.
Please reply to this post if you are willing to help.
Mike, I appreciate your idea for another class action lawsuit, but I don’t think it will amount to anything. Even if one gets started I think they will settle out of court again, admit no wrong doing, and the lawyers will get rich-er, while we get maybe a portion of what we think is owed to us.
Mike – We have 8 comps on our CCC report none of which are even close to our car. All 8 are for the wrong ENGINE but 2 of them-the only 2 w. no VIN listed-are falsely listed as the correct engine. Those 2 have fake addresses and fake phone #’s for the dealer. We found the 2 cars with the matching stock# & verified w/ the dealerships that they have the same 8 cycl engine as the other 6 comps. Reply back if you want all the VINS for your research. This is a third party claim and we have no other transportation!
Having the same issue as others through LM. 2 comparables. One comparable had 19k less miles and an adjustment of $1,595. The second had 36k more miles and the adjustment was only $378.
Mike, have you filed your lawsuit?
CCC One adjusted the value of each comparable vehicle (all 12) in their total loss value report on my car downward by $961.00 for “The Condition Adjustment sets that comparable vehicle to Normal Wear condition, which the loss vehicle is also compared to in the Vehicle Condition section.” When I questioned the adjuster about this, and told him that I felt it was just an arbitrary figure selected by CCC One to reduce the value of all comparable vehicles, his response was “They deduct the condition rating on all the comparables because the dealers clean them all up to make them in dealer ready condition, so that is why they make the adjustment to normal”, meaning the downward adjustment of $961.00. So because the dealer may wash and vacuum the car before sale, CCC One gets to reduce the value of each comparable by $961.00? Like I said, it seems to me to just be an arbitrary figure by CCC One to benefit their clients, the insurance companies.
Any thoughts on how to respond further on this issue?
Thanks!
I too have/had Liberty Mutual as of an accident the happened on Jan 10th, 2017. We were rear ended and flipped and rolled, as the lady who hit us was doing upwards of 65 mph. She didn’t have enough coverage to cover the two cars she totaled, mine and one in front of us, so we have to go through LM. The adjuster gave us an offer roughly $2000 lower than any comparable prices I found using the same method she said they used, i.e. Autotrader, dealer prices etc. My value was dropped due to age, it was a 2014! I tried using what David (above) said to do but LM refused to budge. They have since threatened to tow the car back to my yard and withdraw the claim. I’ve spoken to three lawyers and they all say the same thing…take the money and they will help me get more from the injury claim. That still doesn’t make it right.
I went through this as well. My question is where is CCC getting the sales prices and details. My model car was listed with an option that simply did not come on the car. Yet somehow, the other cars had this make-believe option and mine did not, so CCC deducted an amount. What fraud! The cars they compared mine to were base models. Mine was loaded. I bought it out of the showroom. So if they, the insurance company, get this information, we, the insured, should be able to know where they came from and be able to VERIFY them. One of the CCC comps was a NO-vin car from a dealership that had been closed for years. So they just made a car up. We are told to believe them on blind faith! Laughable considering these insurance companies pay a lot of money for this program…to save money and cheat their insureds. I am all for a class action lawsuit. And btw, I tried the Maryland Insurance Commission with a trial. I believe the commissioners are in bed with the insurance companies. I guess they need a job on the outside when their commission is over.
Same story Sophia ..
5 out of 10 Comparable vehicles with UNKNOWN VIN Number .. Auction sale prices and 9 out of 10 Comparable vehicles used are a different Make/Model/Trim discounted by 300-800 $ for it in the Adjusted Comparable Price … Comparable vehicles used nowhere to be found on Dealer Websites since they’ve been soled weeks and up to 3 months before I got rear-ended.. I ended up in the emergency room reading these Market Valuation Reports from CCC/GEICO. 2+ Months in to claim negotiations and I will never agree to settle these manipulated CCC ACV !!! Department of Insurance complaint and BBB Complaint for now.. Waiting for a response… Will never give up on this, my “totaled” car was EVERYTHING to me !!!
I am on a similar situation. I cant verify their comps. They arbitrarily decide which car options they allocate a value to, for example heated steering wheel = no value) . My discounted was around 900 but when I look and compared to actual cars that can be verified, the valuation for my car is about 2,000.
It is frustrating that insurance total loss service rep cant see the numbers as they are very clear but because he works for the insurance company he does not want to accept my comps. Very frustrating.
CCC is back to it’s old tricks, offering low ball values to benefit the insurance companies. My vehicle is was valued at $5,250 and CCC has issued a value of $2,818. Another class action lawsuit does need to be filed against them, while they will possible settle, if enough continuation of hitting them in the pockets, may get them to realize that consumers are not going to just sit back and allow them to low ball our vehicles and we take the losses. Independent automobile dealers need to be aware of insurance companies that use CCC One. Here’s why, when your collateral is totaled your customer will receive the low ball estimate, leaving you with an unpaid balance. I know that Ocean Harbor/Pearl Holdings insurance company uses CCC One for their valuations. Beware…… or you will be left holding the bag.
We are getting the same low ball evaluation from CCC.
Options on vehicle were mistakenly !! not reported. Supposedly a data transfer from the FORD VIN number data base. Mileage was deducted at .09 cents per mile way above the .02 cents per mile used by the state sales tax depts. Another section deducted for general condition in additional to the mileage deduction. The mileage deduction is to compensate for ware and tear. A second deduction is abusive.
Looking to join a class action.
I have dealt with a claim through Farmers, using CCC. They valued an older vehicle I drove at around $400, for a total loss claim. They included damage caused by the accident in the price deductions, of course, took a horrendous $600 off for mileage, and $300 more off for the condition of the interior. I had been nice and respectful to the claim representative until that point. I e-mailed them and told them how asinine and illogical it was for them to value the car as though I was looking to sell it in an instant, just like the accident occurred. I said many other reasonable things, in a professional tone, and ended up getting the insurer to double the claim amount, and offer a bit extra for loss of use. That helped, but it still did not equal the actual value of the vehicle, because of course, the vehicle is the center of my working world. Without a running vehicle, it is not always possible to get to and from work (especially when you work 2-4 jobs in a day, with no time to wait for a bus in between).
TIME FOR CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. Proof of Insurance Companies Defrauding Consumers out of Millions: As a prior Fraud Investigator in the Insurance Industry and now an Auto Broker in Colorado, I have uncovered a very disturbing pattern for both CCC valuation and J.D. Powers Total Loss Valuation Reports. The Comps are often SALVAGE TITLED vehicles, selling for thousands below market. CCC and J.D. Powers are both clearly seeking out the lowest priced “Comp.” vehicles in the market, which results in those comps very often being salvage titled vehicles and/or very poor condition pay and drive lot vehicles that are NOT COMPS. Why would they not eliminate all salvage title vehicles before presenting a report, unless they are intentionally seeking to create low-ball total loss valuations to earn and keep the insurance company’s business (saving insurance companies from paying valid ACV claim payouts)
In the past year, more than 15 times, I have evaluated VIN #’s for the alleged Comps on the Insurance Co. provided valuation reports. First I Google the VIN, and I have found the dealer advertised price was higher than what the report says. Then, I look at the pictures for the vehicle on the dealer site, and found vehicles that were in horrific condition. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I then run CarFax and AutoCheck History report on the comp vehicles and routinely find one or more cars are Salvage Titled. In this past week alone, i have found this on 2 out of 2 total loss valuations.
I am in the middle of a Total Loss claim with USAA, using this CCC One to get my adjusted vehicle value, I also Copied and pasted in Google the Comps they came up with, OMG what a bunch of crap! My truck came with a Factory Bose Stereo, their truck had a cassette, mine had newer over sized custom Aluminum Rims with over sized tires, they had a picture with the SPARE tire on the truck , LOMAO! Then they offer me $3,000 Less then that piece of Crap! 3 Comps they have 50, yes 50 LESS Options then my Truck, and they offer me Far Less then the SOLD Comps? USAA says it’s not their Policy to pay for replacement Value? I said It’s not my Policy to find myself on the side of the highway in the rain, waiting for a tow and a ride to the Hospital, because your insured pulled out in front of me hoping to make across 2 very busy lanes of traffic!Sign me Up for the next Law Suite, I will pay $25,000 in Attorney Fee’s this year, Think I care about a few more $1000? NOT
GRANGE WILL RIP YOU OFF. Grange wants to screw me out of $4000.00 on the fair market value of my vehicle based on their CCC One report.
I am currently seeking a good lawyer to represent me or our entire class.
We need to hit them punitive damages because all they care about is thier profit margin and they will continue to rip people off as long as it adds to thier bottom line.
Involved currently with CCC Information Services and a “collision” claim with Allstate. Not surprised to see the “good hands” folks using this outfit. Am surprised at some of the other companies using them (USAA for example). IMO any insurance company using CCC for vehicle evaluations is not a company one should be insured with. PERIOD!
Here is what I found after diving into Allstate’s offer:
No one from Allstate or CCC inspected the totaled car as to its condition.
Allstate had a “captured” body shop give them the car’s Vin #.
CCC found 3 “comparable” vehicles, none of which were available by the time we received the CCC Valuation Report.
They listed 4 items that the totaled car didn’t have; it had all 4 and still has them today.
The CCC Valuation Report is 16 pages of pretty colors. Personally when I see a product like this I knows it is fluff hiding the truth.
There are 2 additional games they play on page 8 of this Report. At the bottom of the page they list “Adjustments.” Here is where their magic is. They show “Options” “mileage” and “Condition”
Options. Look close. They deduct for options that were not even on the car when new.
Mileage. This one shows great imagination. Instead of using nationally a recognized guide such as NADA (sales of actual vehicles nationally) they just make up their own deductions for mileage. In our case, they deducted $2,024 when comparing the totaled car to their 3 comparable. NADA shows a proper deduction of $700.
When I contact CCC for explanation, all I got was BS. “We only use sales from the same state……maybe it’s from the same region……no, maybe it’s from BLA BLA BLA. They claim they send out questionnaires to car dealers to gather the information. When asked what information they request; the BLA BlA again. Ask them if the information they ask is the car dealers opinions, or, is it based on their real sales? They can’t give a straight answer.
Lastly we have “Condition.” Turns out this has nothing to do with the condition of the totaled car or the comparable they used. It should be entitled “conditioning costs.” Yes, they allied a $929 deduction to the totaled car and all 3 comparable under this category. Per CCC this is the amount a car dealer incurs preparing a car for sale on their lot. Are they saying they don’t pay for this cost which is part of the retail cost we pay when buying a car from a dealer? Yep, exactly what they are saying. In other words your insurance company won’t pay the cost of replacing your vehicle from a dealer. Your only option is to buy from a relative or other private party. Since no insurance company anywhere excludes the cost of dealer prep in their policies, this is more crap. As entertaining as that conclusion is, their explanation as to why is even funnier. You see CCC claims that the instant your car is totaled, the “actual cash value” does not include any dealer prep costs because it is not being prepared to be for sale on a dealers lot. How could it; the damn thing is not repairable!!!
I will give CCC a plus for creative claim adjustments but the insurance companies they work for a F. for fraud.
You might also google “CCC Information Services, lawsuits.” CCC had been sued many times for these practices. Even paid more they 8 million dollars in settlement cost on one. It appears they are right back at their old business practices.
You might also file a complaint with your state’s Insurance Commissioner’s Office.
I filed a complaint with the state insurance department. They responded with “the insurance company did nothing wrong.” The basis for that decision is that CCC is not an insurance company and therefore not under department of insurance jurisdiction.
I’m dealing with a CCC report through Geico.
I have a 2012 Infinity G37 with 43k miles. They searched autotrader for the CHEAPEST car with over 91.7k miles (more than double) then adjusted the price up $1300. So they are offering me $14k. When I got to autotrader and search for cars with similar miles I get 16-18k. They are the lowest of the low and I’d love to be in a class-action lawsuit against these scammers.
Geico has been difficult to deal with. Our car was involved in a flash flood after a rain. The Geico adjusters let it sit 14 days before appraising the car. Now I’ve been waiting 3 days asking for them to do comparisons on vehicles around similar mileage.
A real shame as you think a company like Geico would treat their companies better.
The low balling by the three major valuation companies is commonplace and literally can be a license for insurers to steal. When it is “your” insurer doing this you can invoke the appraisal clause in your policy and hire an independent appraiser to represent you and resolve the valuation process. Firms all over the USA do this and earn a living representing vehicle owners to battle with insurers. It is sad that they are needed but insurers often make mistakes that are often really intentional errors. Do your research, get the opinion of an expert. Fees are usually in the $350 to $500 range and you could recover many thousands. Most appraisers don’t take on jobs unless they see at least $1500 left on the table.
My insurer Geico gave me a low ball valuation on 2 totaled auto which forced me to get an appraisal myself. Geico took longer than the month to get their valuation done about 3 months and took exactly 17% off both valuations which is a liquidation value not market value. They were required to use area comps instead used clunkers from States that also suffered from Irma and north east states and not my state of Floridas.They are now responding to a detailed memorandum I gave. But basically they are not reviewing just trying to wear me out. My rental costs have been very high and i wish to hold them accountable as they did not adhere to rules. They have not been ethical with unreasonable delays close to six months. and the low balling and abandoning claims with no response for about 3 month. It seems from my research that they have license to abuse with liquidation values and long delays. I thought the next step was to complain to state. That will only make sense if the state believes low balling and undue delays are reasonable.
Simply mention the words Bad Faith.
Just found out, in Illinois there is a law against the prep fees they are deducting from the value of my car. CCC One even mentions the law in their report.
B) Deductions of the kind commonly referred to as “get ready to go” and “dealer prep”, or dealer preparation, charges are prohibited.”
Full law name is Illinois Code 50-1-1-919.80
my car was stolen when i was 1000 miles away from home i had full coverage and gap insurance. i filed a claim and notified my insurance company. two weeks later the sheriff dept. contacted me they found my car and told me what tow company they had pick it up and that i could come get my car. i contacted my insurance and they told me not to that they would move it to a secured storage lot to have their adjuster look at the damages in the mean time i kept calling and emailing insurance and finance company to find out what was going on with my car because the tow company called me and said it was still there. i even had to get the police report and send to insurance company when i thought they already had it because they had told me at first they were waiting for it. i received a email from the adjuster going to look at my car i contacted them and they said they were going that day nov 7th to look at the car. on tuesday after the 7th i tried to call insurance and kept getting voice mail so i emailed her to find out what the damages were and if i could go get my car. i contacted the adjuster that went to look at my car they said they had sent their report to insurance and they should have it. i continued to call my insurance finally got a hold of her thanksgiving week when i asked her what was going on with my car she said what did i want to know i said i want to know if i could go get my car was it fixable or what she said oh they had deemed it a total loss and mind you i haven’t to date received anything in writing from my insurance. so i called my finance company and left a message of the findings of the insurance company. i continued to call and email the insurance company to find out what they were going to pay so i could contact gap or if they contact gap as i had no idea of how the whole process works but didn’t hear anything. i went as far as to call gap myself to find out what the process was. now 5 months later i receive a letter from my creditor saying they sold my car on nov 7th and what i owe and have a repo on my credit report. how can this be my insurance company had my car. finance company states they sold it on the very day the adjuster went to look at the damages. I have no idea of what to do. the finance company never sent me anything either of a sale of my car. i looked into if a car is repo that finance company is to inform you of where and when it is to be actioned. but besides that my car wasn’t repo it was stolen recovered and insurance had it so how could all of this happen
I have filed a small claims 3rd party suit against the at-fault party, sent a demand for payment to them and the adjuster from National General (Direct), after receiving a low-ball appraisal. My hopes are to have the insurance I believe that I am supposed to prove that he is/was liable, which should be simple, but am I expected to defend amounts like the ACV/replacement cost of vehicle, in court? Will the insurance company sent an attorney to be with the at-fault party to defend their appraisal and denial of other payment of other items such as storage to be paid before we reached settlement? Also, if I do get a judgement, do I have to do anything else in order to collect like with arbitration? For example to I have to confirm it as a court judgement(it already is one correct?) and apply for an enforcement order? The at-fault-party lives in a neighboring county in which I filed my suit. I am hoping that the insurance company isn’t up to the fight and will settle before the court date.