I am a Marketing Rep for a small upstate NY regional carrier. We write small commercial lines that are tough to place
(rest,tavern,rental dwellings,artisan contractors). I see the market for our accounts as still very hard. The national stock carriers don’t want small commercial, the regionals are slowing as they have been gaining much market share in the past several years due to the stock carrier’s retreating, and many of the small domestic mutuals are struggling with growth or profitability issues. Our competition still seems to be the non-admitted carriers, they are writing risks that should be in the standard market. the stocks have given up market share and it may be impossible for them to get it back.
I wish we were seeing price reductions, but from my accounts a 10% increase on renewals is still doing well. If the market is softening, I wish our carriers would let us in on the secret…
Well on the West Coast, we are as usually the last to see any changes, hard to soft and back again. So far though there has been very little change in pricing and availablity for many harder to place classes. With regards to the Marketing Rep in NY commenting on the E & S people coming in at cheaper prices for classes that should be in a standard market; don’t look at the E & S carriers, have a good long chat with the Reinsurers of the standard carrier’s who in a knee jerk reaction to the over all loss ratios, decided to yank the availablity of those classifications to the standard carriers. And when they take a knee jerk reaction to current market conditions, then tend to shoot themselves in the foot, problem is when they do that- we are the ones who bleed.
I don’t see a huge swing in the Washington Metro area in pricing. We are starting to see some increased capacity but no major price decreases. I hope we have gained some new leaders in high places so that the trend toward investment returns instead of underwriting profits is gone for good. Until we get good solid insurance people running insurance companies instead of investment people, we will continue to suffer as will our clients.
The brokers are trying so hard to push the market down, they have only one way to do it, through “chatter”. Rates have stabilized for property but are not in any shape or form in a free fall as some would have you believe. It is concerning the only thing brokers have to sell is price. It would be nice to see some support for quality and what the insurance company can do for its client on a long term basis. The flight to quality can not be a short term adventure.
I think you are forgetting about something. The insured. We are in the buisness to make money true, however so is the insured. And the small businessman, the backbone of this country isn’t able to afford some of the prices carriers are beginining to demand, we are only communicating to you what is needed by the person who is paying our salaries, the insured. When the insured is already suffering from a economy that is struggling to stay above water they could careless about the “quality” of thier insurance, only what they have to do to keep costs down and thier employees families alive.
So don’t even try the quality route with the brokers, because we unlike you have to listen to the insured scream, swear and yes even watch these people cry. We aren’t dealing with numbers here but people. Don’t ever forget that because when you do, you are no more than a machine spitting out numbers. Quality is important and we do stress that to the insured, just to them there is alot more that is important to them than the “quality” of thier insurance. When prices get out of the clouds a bit then quality will again become an issue. But not before….
I’m with John. I am so sick that the profession has been dumbed-down to peddler status. I blame the carriers, first for cuting commissions in the ’90s so that you can’t afford good people; and secondly because the carriers have marketed a commodity mentality. I would venture to guess that JT’s customers would pay for quality if they were able to distinguish it. Too bad agents have turned into bazaar salesman over trusted advisors. I say to these, why not do the profession a favor and go sell windows and siding?
JT, I can’t believe that these same people cry to their other vendors and suppliers. For many insurance is simply an impediment that short of a bank note mandate, they’d do without.
When I see the expensive personal auto disappear, or note that the client’s kid goes to public school instead of prep school, or that they are no longer members of the club, or that they didn’t spend the premium owed me on account to take a Caribean vacation, then I’d cry for them.
It is accommodating agents that play along and bludgeon the underwriter on price, cut this, and shade that that should be blamed. those that misclassify a trucker as a “Landscape Contractor”; and for the underwriters that look the other way. My heart bleeds alright, but with righteous anger the these B.S. artists, both the client and the agent get away with this B.S.! It cheapens what I do, and I resent it. Finally, JT, if your clients can’t hack it, they need to change careers, move somewhere more properous, or take a college course. I don’t feel sorry for them. It’s a free country, and John Kerry will have no effect on their stagnating lives.
JT, have you been insurance for very long? Value added service is what my clients are looking for not a cheap price. The premiums our clients pay are already cheap compared to the rest of the resources, products and supplies that they purchase. Did you know that insurance has not been effected by inflation as every other commodity a business owner has to purchase. In fact insurance costs less today than it did in the 1970’s if you adjust for inflation, but the number of lawsuits and claims has skyrocketed. How can the price of insurance go down when the underwriting results haven’t returned a profit since the early 70’s? Most of my clients understand these facts and the one’s who don’t are not clients they are buyers.
I don’t disagree that those “used car” salemen agents who have purposely mislead carrier underwriters into placing a less than quality risk with their companies should lose their appointments, I do disagree that all clients and brokers be lumped into the same category. When I was discussing the clients who were visibly upset in their renewals going from 800.00 to 5,000.00 I was talking about good clean risks with no problems represented by good honest agents. And yes there are a few out there left.
Those people shouldn’t be ostracized for others blatant misuse of the carriers, but it appears those good ol boys are not only still getting away with their antics but getting rewarded by getting new appointments. And it was based solely one reason, not what kind of garbage they placed with the other carrier, not with what loss ratios they had, but solely on how much money they brought in. The fact they lied on applications, creatively underwrote most of their business, manipulated rates, and totally lied to their carrier underwriters seem to have no bearing. Yet when you shoot the market, it’s the good small grocery store with Mom and Pop, or the little carpenter with no losses, that suddenly have to eat a 5Kmp, that get stuck. Not big business. None of these people belong to a country club, or private schools.
All we are asking is to stop blanket deciding and look at the agent and the risk separately, and stop rewarding the slime balls in the industry.
In answer to your question- 10 years and before that 8 in banking. However I will elaborate a bit – I work in an E & S market. And have seen too many good people who had never had a loss, never had a claim, had terrific loss controls in place go out of business because they could no longer afford coverage. What can I say- but that I have compassion for tese people, and while I do understand we are in business to make money we can’t make money on what we are unable to sell.
You know how many carrier underwriters have said “Well they are just going to have to pay that” and they didn’t…. The insured doesn’t have to buy anything-
JT – I agree with you, the prostitute insurance companies are only concerned with cash flow, and next quarter’s report. As the demutualization of carriers continues, insurance companies only care about managing money. It’s reflected in the whores who inhabit the high management positions – their bonus, resume and where the head-hunter can move them for a lucrative sign on bonus. It’s all the same attitude.
Guys I have to agree with you on that issue. We no longer have insurance people running insurance companies, at least at the National carrier level. Most Regional carriers understand underwriting and the basics of insurance laws whereas the large money machines at STP/T, Hartford, etc are only looking to secure huge salaries, golden parachutes and how many times they can get their names in the news papers with out having it be for something illegal. As an agent, I just found out that one of my National Carriers wrote an account that they declined for me for another agent because “he explained it differently” which made it acceptable. In other words he either lied to the u/w or was lied to by the insured after I educated him. Either way they are whores for taking the risk after declining it for me. And this isn’t the first time.
I am a Marketing Rep for a small upstate NY regional carrier. We write small commercial lines that are tough to place
(rest,tavern,rental dwellings,artisan contractors). I see the market for our accounts as still very hard. The national stock carriers don’t want small commercial, the regionals are slowing as they have been gaining much market share in the past several years due to the stock carrier’s retreating, and many of the small domestic mutuals are struggling with growth or profitability issues. Our competition still seems to be the non-admitted carriers, they are writing risks that should be in the standard market. the stocks have given up market share and it may be impossible for them to get it back.
uhh, given the return of capital to the markets, you’ll see the stocks moving back in quickly if your profitably hold up.
go sell crazy someplace else; we’re all full up here
The inmates still rule the asylum. After 40 years nothing changes. Cut your wrist and let the blood flow. YIKES!
I wish we were seeing price reductions, but from my accounts a 10% increase on renewals is still doing well. If the market is softening, I wish our carriers would let us in on the secret…
Well on the West Coast, we are as usually the last to see any changes, hard to soft and back again. So far though there has been very little change in pricing and availablity for many harder to place classes. With regards to the Marketing Rep in NY commenting on the E & S people coming in at cheaper prices for classes that should be in a standard market; don’t look at the E & S carriers, have a good long chat with the Reinsurers of the standard carrier’s who in a knee jerk reaction to the over all loss ratios, decided to yank the availablity of those classifications to the standard carriers. And when they take a knee jerk reaction to current market conditions, then tend to shoot themselves in the foot, problem is when they do that- we are the ones who bleed.
I don’t see a huge swing in the Washington Metro area in pricing. We are starting to see some increased capacity but no major price decreases. I hope we have gained some new leaders in high places so that the trend toward investment returns instead of underwriting profits is gone for good. Until we get good solid insurance people running insurance companies instead of investment people, we will continue to suffer as will our clients.
The brokers are trying so hard to push the market down, they have only one way to do it, through “chatter”. Rates have stabilized for property but are not in any shape or form in a free fall as some would have you believe. It is concerning the only thing brokers have to sell is price. It would be nice to see some support for quality and what the insurance company can do for its client on a long term basis. The flight to quality can not be a short term adventure.
John,
I think you are forgetting about something. The insured. We are in the buisness to make money true, however so is the insured. And the small businessman, the backbone of this country isn’t able to afford some of the prices carriers are beginining to demand, we are only communicating to you what is needed by the person who is paying our salaries, the insured. When the insured is already suffering from a economy that is struggling to stay above water they could careless about the “quality” of thier insurance, only what they have to do to keep costs down and thier employees families alive.
So don’t even try the quality route with the brokers, because we unlike you have to listen to the insured scream, swear and yes even watch these people cry. We aren’t dealing with numbers here but people. Don’t ever forget that because when you do, you are no more than a machine spitting out numbers. Quality is important and we do stress that to the insured, just to them there is alot more that is important to them than the “quality” of thier insurance. When prices get out of the clouds a bit then quality will again become an issue. But not before….
I’m with John. I am so sick that the profession has been dumbed-down to peddler status. I blame the carriers, first for cuting commissions in the ’90s so that you can’t afford good people; and secondly because the carriers have marketed a commodity mentality. I would venture to guess that JT’s customers would pay for quality if they were able to distinguish it. Too bad agents have turned into bazaar salesman over trusted advisors. I say to these, why not do the profession a favor and go sell windows and siding?
JT, I can’t believe that these same people cry to their other vendors and suppliers. For many insurance is simply an impediment that short of a bank note mandate, they’d do without.
When I see the expensive personal auto disappear, or note that the client’s kid goes to public school instead of prep school, or that they are no longer members of the club, or that they didn’t spend the premium owed me on account to take a Caribean vacation, then I’d cry for them.
It is accommodating agents that play along and bludgeon the underwriter on price, cut this, and shade that that should be blamed. those that misclassify a trucker as a “Landscape Contractor”; and for the underwriters that look the other way. My heart bleeds alright, but with righteous anger the these B.S. artists, both the client and the agent get away with this B.S.! It cheapens what I do, and I resent it. Finally, JT, if your clients can’t hack it, they need to change careers, move somewhere more properous, or take a college course. I don’t feel sorry for them. It’s a free country, and John Kerry will have no effect on their stagnating lives.
JT, have you been insurance for very long? Value added service is what my clients are looking for not a cheap price. The premiums our clients pay are already cheap compared to the rest of the resources, products and supplies that they purchase. Did you know that insurance has not been effected by inflation as every other commodity a business owner has to purchase. In fact insurance costs less today than it did in the 1970’s if you adjust for inflation, but the number of lawsuits and claims has skyrocketed. How can the price of insurance go down when the underwriting results haven’t returned a profit since the early 70’s? Most of my clients understand these facts and the one’s who don’t are not clients they are buyers.
Big and Paul,
Big and Paul,
I don’t disagree that those “used car” salemen agents who have purposely mislead carrier underwriters into placing a less than quality risk with their companies should lose their appointments, I do disagree that all clients and brokers be lumped into the same category. When I was discussing the clients who were visibly upset in their renewals going from 800.00 to 5,000.00 I was talking about good clean risks with no problems represented by good honest agents. And yes there are a few out there left.
Those people shouldn’t be ostracized for others blatant misuse of the carriers, but it appears those good ol boys are not only still getting away with their antics but getting rewarded by getting new appointments. And it was based solely one reason, not what kind of garbage they placed with the other carrier, not with what loss ratios they had, but solely on how much money they brought in. The fact they lied on applications, creatively underwrote most of their business, manipulated rates, and totally lied to their carrier underwriters seem to have no bearing. Yet when you shoot the market, it’s the good small grocery store with Mom and Pop, or the little carpenter with no losses, that suddenly have to eat a 5Kmp, that get stuck. Not big business. None of these people belong to a country club, or private schools.
All we are asking is to stop blanket deciding and look at the agent and the risk separately, and stop rewarding the slime balls in the industry.
Doug-
In answer to your question- 10 years and before that 8 in banking. However I will elaborate a bit – I work in an E & S market. And have seen too many good people who had never had a loss, never had a claim, had terrific loss controls in place go out of business because they could no longer afford coverage. What can I say- but that I have compassion for tese people, and while I do understand we are in business to make money we can’t make money on what we are unable to sell.
You know how many carrier underwriters have said “Well they are just going to have to pay that” and they didn’t…. The insured doesn’t have to buy anything-
JT – I agree with you, the prostitute insurance companies are only concerned with cash flow, and next quarter’s report. As the demutualization of carriers continues, insurance companies only care about managing money. It’s reflected in the whores who inhabit the high management positions – their bonus, resume and where the head-hunter can move them for a lucrative sign on bonus. It’s all the same attitude.
Paul-
Too true….
Guys I have to agree with you on that issue. We no longer have insurance people running insurance companies, at least at the National carrier level. Most Regional carriers understand underwriting and the basics of insurance laws whereas the large money machines at STP/T, Hartford, etc are only looking to secure huge salaries, golden parachutes and how many times they can get their names in the news papers with out having it be for something illegal. As an agent, I just found out that one of my National Carriers wrote an account that they declined for me for another agent because “he explained it differently” which made it acceptable. In other words he either lied to the u/w or was lied to by the insured after I educated him. Either way they are whores for taking the risk after declining it for me. And this isn’t the first time.