I agree with the post that the ins companies are there to make a profit. Many years ago when no one was complaining about the pricing( bottom of the soft market) Ins companies were filing Chapter 11 which eventually ended up in 7 because they could not bring in as much as they were paying out. Car prices increase an average of 7% each year for as long as i can remeber. Housing increasing, building material increases, gas, groceries, labor cost, health care, medicine, hospital care, so on and so fourth. Why is it the ney sayers think ins rates shouldnt keep up with the rest of business? By the way they dont and havent. Ins is the spread of risk amoung the many. Thats the business. The many are us. If we press the pricing down below comfortable business levels then the Us will surely bare more of the finacial burden through taxation. One way or the other we will pay. Id rather have negotiating power with competition. No one or entity competes with uncle Sam.
Grow up! The cost is the cost. I challenge you to reduce your cost or reduce your own profits at the home and then complain.
Allstate, State Farm, Safeco and USAA Loss Claim Schemes 2002-2007
Having dealt with the companies above over the past five year period, and after watching my (homeowner claimant) clients and neighbors suffer because of their business culture and loss claim \”adjusting\” underassessment/underpayment stratigies, I invite any governmental legal entity or professional to contact me so that I can share my files/documentation that shows how those companies are handling wind, hail and flood catastrophe claims, between Florida and Texas, to the financial and personal detriment of people they convince to do business with them.
What is the substance to those numbers? Do they include salvage recovery and all other considerations as subrogation and litigation?
I assume this is referencing property casualty
I know I am going to make so many people mad at me, but aren\’t the insurance companies supposed to make profits? Not if we are socialists.
I also believe that claims should be settled fairly, but having worked in the insurance industry I learned that many want to make a profit and are mad at the companies because of the rules in the policies, i.e. coinsurance clauses and excluded losses.
And finally, to really make you mad at me, aren\’t many 401k\’s tied to profits of big businesses? I wouldn\’t have a 401k or any type of investment if the companies were supposed to make losses or break even.
Why are insurance companies always the ones being attacked for \”excessive profits\”? In the last 20 years, the P&C insurance industry has only posted underwriting gains (that\’s a combined ratio under 100%) 3 or 4 times. That hardly seems like excessive profits to me. And the return on equity in the industry is well below the returns noted by the companies on the S&P 500, the biggest companies in the U.S.
So why the ire toward insurers? No one yells when their bank posts incredible profits. Ridiculously high rates on credit cards, mortgage fees and rates, ATM fees, overdraft fees, etc. Banks consistently post MUCH stronger profits than insurance companies. But no consumer groups cry out for better interest rates, pressure banks to lower credit card interest rates across the country, etc.
No matter how much anyone wants to think otherwise, insurance companies exist to make a profit. Those profits are what provides the funds to pay claims in the future.
Great point on the 401ks. We all make money when companies do well.
Lastly, this is a capitalistic economy. If there is \”price gouging\” going on, more insurance companies would be created and competition would increase (pushing premiums down). We don\’t see new companies being created like wildfire, so profits must not be as incredible as advertised.
If you can get a better rate from another carrier and trust their service record, then vote by changing companies.
Why would anyone get mad over those remarks? They are valid, especially with our market model of a free capitalist society. If one is not happy with their insurance service at any time they can choose another carrier or self insure.
The complaints listed on this website certainly don\’t jive with any customer satisfaction index I have ever seen, including the one released by my State\’s insurance commissioner.
I think the ire comes from the fact that \’eye-popping\’ profits are being recorded by insurers for 2006. This, in addition to the fact that so many people have not been paid for Katrina losses (I\’m not getting into whether the losses were or were not covered by the policy in question…just the fact that so many people have not been paid). This in and of itself fuels the negative public perception of insurance companies. Additionally, property insurance rates have skyrocketed and the availability shrinks with each passing day, especially along the coast. I am a LI, NY agent and I do not have one voluntary carrier that I can approach for a new home policy. We must approach MGA\’s to place coverage at significantly higher premiums, and the commission rate is half what it would be if my carriers were still writing. This does not bode well for home sales, new mortgages, etc., but dare I digress. At this juncture, what the general population sees are huge profits, unpaid claims, exhorbitant premiums and little or no availability. Right or wrong, this is why the public lashes out at the industry in general.
How many claims have been opened, and how many settled? The numbers for State Farm are something like 295,000 paid, about 1000 not paid. That makes a closure rate of about 99.5%, stellar considering the event. People perceive that things are bad because you will never see a headline that reads \’99% of claims settled\’ or \’Insurance industry posts 4th profit in 20 years\’. That part of our industry is not newsworthy. Is our industry perfect? Heck no, but thats where the free market part comes in, along with a giant dose of regulation. For all the whining about how insurers stick it to policyholders, there arent many fields more heavily regulated already than the insurance business.
It is refreshing to finally read comments on this site that are intelligent, informative and \”right on the money\”. Is the industry perfect? No, Do we ( the company) make a profit? Yes. Do we try our best to service our clients? Most definitely. Let\’s see fairer headlines,then public perception may change, ever so slightly.
Anyone remember when the cycles were a much more gentle three year cycle instead of the violent ten years of recent years (last 15-20)? Everyone expected a little increase every year & I don\’t remember the company bashing that they get now.
Roger, my house has been flooded 5 times since 1981 and Allstate has always paid those claims very well. Same with wind damge to the roof. Same with a theft. Insurers are only supposed to pay for what the customer can\’t afford to pay for themselves. That\’s the whole idea of insurance. You\’re idea of insurance is that insurance companies need to pay for everything over and above just because. Not how it was designed to work, sorry. Your thoeries on the roof granuals being loosened in storms is great. That\’s called wear and tear.
Please believe me not every victim gets justice, and without a proper legal system to keep this in line there will be more people like me. You only really know when you get there.
I felt compelled to write my story, when I see this name Cigna I still shudder, but I have somehow learned to live with it for now. It has been 10 years now and I had Subscribed to Cigna Hmo for healthcare for almost 10 years. I was enrolled and treated in their No. Hollywood wholly owned clinic in California. I thought this was a wonderful Company until I got sick and needed treatment. For two years Cigna abused me, and only when I went to outside doctors and paid for it did I learn I had Lung Cancer, and I went on to prove they knew I was ill and they were simply not going to treat me and let me die. I went to the newspapers and fought them got treatment and thank God somehow I survived. It is a long story I never did get legal justice because I refused to arbitrate with these Criminals. You bet your bottom dollars these people are make no mistake Criminals, and somehow they are still making a dollar on other peoples pain. However I am sure justice will come.
Last but not least I still have the response they filed over 10 years ago,that even if they committed Fraud, or a crime they could still compell Arbitration. A sad state of affairs dont you think?
Your comments make no sense! You obviously have not followed the insurance industry payouts to their execustives. If those bonus\’ weren\’t so large then there would be profit! As a matter of fact the bonus\’ are based on profit and cost reduction(hedging).
Check out MSN insider trading under any Ins.Co symbol.
The numbers can be manipulated to whatever they want…rob from Peter to pay Paul.
Is there a gotv\’t agency out there that has the guts to investigate these companies – if so please do and then come to Ilinois -home ground for a couple. It is criminal how they treat insureds -and how they don\’t settle claims. Can\’t imagine why Springfield turns its head LOL
Perhaps the problem is that while these are \”national\” companies, regulation is by state insurance commissioners, all of whom have some sort of political motivation. The patchwork of individual state regulations make regulation of general practices of these companies problematic. The insurance commissioner decides to \”get tough\” and the company decides they\’re pulling out rather than put up with it.
HOW profits are made determines if they are legal, or illegal.
On the back-end of the premium dollar trail, insurance agents and underwriting departments can be using, (for premium factoring), actuarially defined and realistic future replacement costs values of a structure , while on the front end of the \”money trail\” certain \”loss claim adjusters\” and vendors are intentionally ignoring historically empirical catastrophe caused property damage, and reconstruction / contents / depreciation factors.
Promise and charge for what\’s fair indemnification wise, and then use the ignorance of 95+% of policyhoders to keep intrinsic loss values owed them when time to pay, and hard-to-detect illegal profits can follow.
However, \”hard-to-detect\” seems to mean, by some, as being impossible to detect.
The physical and mathematical evidence is in claim files, across the nation, that have their own synthetic claim loss value estimating methodology FACTS to show & tell for the past FIVE (2002-2007) years.
Too, anyone can \”google\” a insurers\’ name along with keywords like \”unfair claim settlement, deceptive trade practice, intentionally underpay claims, overhead and profit, theft of premiums, deceptive advertising\” etc., for help in shopping for an insurer.
Upon considering the insurance industry and the private and governmental attempts to \”keep it honest,\” one is left with several public facts and realities to absorb:
1) The life insurance industry is operating from actuarial tables that are drawn from 30 year old data OR MORE;
2) ALL insurers operate utilizing the latest and most secure technology, minimizing their community and social benefits as great places for employment, community enhancement and social advancement to society as a whole(therir employees may be very nappy but the surrounding jurisdiction and its taxpaying base may have offered tax and other benefits in hope for a major employer and found technology has allowed the insurer to confound their expectations);
3) Insurers have routinely re-organized companies, established \”not-for-profit technical, testing and political entities, trimmed staffing levels, utilized outside contractors and utilized every technical advancement in computer science to control claim and application processing costs to maximize their profits, not to reduce their costs to the consumer. The abundance of money that flows into their coffers daily dazzles the mind! MetLife has recorded over $40 million dollars daily from its life operations ALONE! That kind of money can buy a lot of governmental laisez faire to their operations, especially at election time; and
4) It is apparent that most insurers do NOT operate in any single jurisdiction. The very act of their policy being sold across a state line should bring in the U.S. Commerce Department, but it does not. The influence and power generated by so much money being at the beck and call of any one entity or insurer is enough for the Treasury Department to be involved but it is not. The Federal Trade bCommission supposedly regulates all trade but it does not. So why do we expect these little podunk state insurance commissioners to take on the big, bad wolf? The insurance industry has not undergone any outwardly, consumer-influenced change in its prfit-generating practices other that technological profit enhancing benefits. That some of those changes were mandatory for security purposes is just the \”ost of doing business\” in my humble opinion.
Those are the four, most relevant reasons I have for espousing more and better monitoring of insurance and claim practices. Perhaps the creation of a national claims and policy clearinghouse would better allow the creation of lower rate structures, more effective and protective coverages and just plain better data from which to make certain rate and operational decisions. As it is now, the insurers have all the data…
Your correct! Look what happened in Florida.
Citizens was the only company to write policies at double the rate of most insurers.
Finally other companies are starting to write new policies again because Govenor Christhad to give in to an increase but was able to hold the rates until 2008 anyway.
This country needs more people like Govenor Christ to step up to the insurers and investigate WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS GOING as Jo Joshua Godfrey says!
Check MSN insider trading under any of the Ins Co symbols and you\’ll see where the billions are going at policy holder and investor expense.
As a past user of Cigna (HMO) health insurance, I too learned of their shoddy medical care at one of their Southern California clinics many years ago.
I had a bad cough and went in for an x-ray. The technician took one x-ray and told me the picture did not come out too clear. I asked if he was going to take another and he said he was not because they were only to take one. He gave this to the doctor…and I mentioned that the film was not clear. The doctor looked at it (close-up and from afar) and said it was okay and there was nothing on my lungs. Following this I went to an outside doctor for an x-ray. This doctor spotted a node on my lung. That was when I decided to drop Cigna.
I agree with the post that the ins companies are there to make a profit. Many years ago when no one was complaining about the pricing( bottom of the soft market) Ins companies were filing Chapter 11 which eventually ended up in 7 because they could not bring in as much as they were paying out. Car prices increase an average of 7% each year for as long as i can remeber. Housing increasing, building material increases, gas, groceries, labor cost, health care, medicine, hospital care, so on and so fourth. Why is it the ney sayers think ins rates shouldnt keep up with the rest of business? By the way they dont and havent. Ins is the spread of risk amoung the many. Thats the business. The many are us. If we press the pricing down below comfortable business levels then the Us will surely bare more of the finacial burden through taxation. One way or the other we will pay. Id rather have negotiating power with competition. No one or entity competes with uncle Sam.
Grow up! The cost is the cost. I challenge you to reduce your cost or reduce your own profits at the home and then complain.
Allstate, State Farm, Safeco and USAA Loss Claim Schemes 2002-2007
Having dealt with the companies above over the past five year period, and after watching my (homeowner claimant) clients and neighbors suffer because of their business culture and loss claim \”adjusting\” underassessment/underpayment stratigies, I invite any governmental legal entity or professional to contact me so that I can share my files/documentation that shows how those companies are handling wind, hail and flood catastrophe claims, between Florida and Texas, to the financial and personal detriment of people they convince to do business with them.
rogerpoegc@gmail.com
What is the substance to those numbers? Do they include salvage recovery and all other considerations as subrogation and litigation?
I assume this is referencing property casualty
I know I am going to make so many people mad at me, but aren\’t the insurance companies supposed to make profits? Not if we are socialists.
I also believe that claims should be settled fairly, but having worked in the insurance industry I learned that many want to make a profit and are mad at the companies because of the rules in the policies, i.e. coinsurance clauses and excluded losses.
And finally, to really make you mad at me, aren\’t many 401k\’s tied to profits of big businesses? I wouldn\’t have a 401k or any type of investment if the companies were supposed to make losses or break even.
Why are insurance companies always the ones being attacked for \”excessive profits\”? In the last 20 years, the P&C insurance industry has only posted underwriting gains (that\’s a combined ratio under 100%) 3 or 4 times. That hardly seems like excessive profits to me. And the return on equity in the industry is well below the returns noted by the companies on the S&P 500, the biggest companies in the U.S.
So why the ire toward insurers? No one yells when their bank posts incredible profits. Ridiculously high rates on credit cards, mortgage fees and rates, ATM fees, overdraft fees, etc. Banks consistently post MUCH stronger profits than insurance companies. But no consumer groups cry out for better interest rates, pressure banks to lower credit card interest rates across the country, etc.
No matter how much anyone wants to think otherwise, insurance companies exist to make a profit. Those profits are what provides the funds to pay claims in the future.
Great point on the 401ks. We all make money when companies do well.
Lastly, this is a capitalistic economy. If there is \”price gouging\” going on, more insurance companies would be created and competition would increase (pushing premiums down). We don\’t see new companies being created like wildfire, so profits must not be as incredible as advertised.
If you can get a better rate from another carrier and trust their service record, then vote by changing companies.
Why would anyone get mad over those remarks? They are valid, especially with our market model of a free capitalist society. If one is not happy with their insurance service at any time they can choose another carrier or self insure.
The complaints listed on this website certainly don\’t jive with any customer satisfaction index I have ever seen, including the one released by my State\’s insurance commissioner.
I think the ire comes from the fact that \’eye-popping\’ profits are being recorded by insurers for 2006. This, in addition to the fact that so many people have not been paid for Katrina losses (I\’m not getting into whether the losses were or were not covered by the policy in question…just the fact that so many people have not been paid). This in and of itself fuels the negative public perception of insurance companies. Additionally, property insurance rates have skyrocketed and the availability shrinks with each passing day, especially along the coast. I am a LI, NY agent and I do not have one voluntary carrier that I can approach for a new home policy. We must approach MGA\’s to place coverage at significantly higher premiums, and the commission rate is half what it would be if my carriers were still writing. This does not bode well for home sales, new mortgages, etc., but dare I digress. At this juncture, what the general population sees are huge profits, unpaid claims, exhorbitant premiums and little or no availability. Right or wrong, this is why the public lashes out at the industry in general.
How many claims have been opened, and how many settled? The numbers for State Farm are something like 295,000 paid, about 1000 not paid. That makes a closure rate of about 99.5%, stellar considering the event. People perceive that things are bad because you will never see a headline that reads \’99% of claims settled\’ or \’Insurance industry posts 4th profit in 20 years\’. That part of our industry is not newsworthy. Is our industry perfect? Heck no, but thats where the free market part comes in, along with a giant dose of regulation. For all the whining about how insurers stick it to policyholders, there arent many fields more heavily regulated already than the insurance business.
It is refreshing to finally read comments on this site that are intelligent, informative and \”right on the money\”. Is the industry perfect? No, Do we ( the company) make a profit? Yes. Do we try our best to service our clients? Most definitely. Let\’s see fairer headlines,then public perception may change, ever so slightly.
Anyone remember when the cycles were a much more gentle three year cycle instead of the violent ten years of recent years (last 15-20)? Everyone expected a little increase every year & I don\’t remember the company bashing that they get now.
Acworth, GA, USA…
Just following to close say State Farm Insurance Insurance Companies.
What trace will come your way again.
You are in : E >>Eric Clapton Lyrics >>Crossroads II Album Lyrics
Capital
Comptom
LA-out 92
Emerson lake and paul, 0-out
Eerso, Ernesto, in-NT, Lake Natoma
Roger, my house has been flooded 5 times since 1981 and Allstate has always paid those claims very well. Same with wind damge to the roof. Same with a theft. Insurers are only supposed to pay for what the customer can\’t afford to pay for themselves. That\’s the whole idea of insurance. You\’re idea of insurance is that insurance companies need to pay for everything over and above just because. Not how it was designed to work, sorry. Your thoeries on the roof granuals being loosened in storms is great. That\’s called wear and tear.
Please believe me not every victim gets justice, and without a proper legal system to keep this in line there will be more people like me. You only really know when you get there.
I felt compelled to write my story, when I see this name Cigna I still shudder, but I have somehow learned to live with it for now. It has been 10 years now and I had Subscribed to Cigna Hmo for healthcare for almost 10 years. I was enrolled and treated in their No. Hollywood wholly owned clinic in California. I thought this was a wonderful Company until I got sick and needed treatment. For two years Cigna abused me, and only when I went to outside doctors and paid for it did I learn I had Lung Cancer, and I went on to prove they knew I was ill and they were simply not going to treat me and let me die. I went to the newspapers and fought them got treatment and thank God somehow I survived. It is a long story I never did get legal justice because I refused to arbitrate with these Criminals. You bet your bottom dollars these people are make no mistake Criminals, and somehow they are still making a dollar on other peoples pain. However I am sure justice will come.
Last but not least I still have the response they filed over 10 years ago,that even if they committed Fraud, or a crime they could still compell Arbitration. A sad state of affairs dont you think?
Your comments make no sense! You obviously have not followed the insurance industry payouts to their execustives. If those bonus\’ weren\’t so large then there would be profit! As a matter of fact the bonus\’ are based on profit and cost reduction(hedging).
Check out MSN insider trading under any Ins.Co symbol.
The numbers can be manipulated to whatever they want…rob from Peter to pay Paul.
Is there a gotv\’t agency out there that has the guts to investigate these companies – if so please do and then come to Ilinois -home ground for a couple. It is criminal how they treat insureds -and how they don\’t settle claims. Can\’t imagine why Springfield turns its head LOL
Perhaps the problem is that while these are \”national\” companies, regulation is by state insurance commissioners, all of whom have some sort of political motivation. The patchwork of individual state regulations make regulation of general practices of these companies problematic. The insurance commissioner decides to \”get tough\” and the company decides they\’re pulling out rather than put up with it.
Profits are a financial reward for hard work.
HOW profits are made determines if they are legal, or illegal.
On the back-end of the premium dollar trail, insurance agents and underwriting departments can be using, (for premium factoring), actuarially defined and realistic future replacement costs values of a structure , while on the front end of the \”money trail\” certain \”loss claim adjusters\” and vendors are intentionally ignoring historically empirical catastrophe caused property damage, and reconstruction / contents / depreciation factors.
Promise and charge for what\’s fair indemnification wise, and then use the ignorance of 95+% of policyhoders to keep intrinsic loss values owed them when time to pay, and hard-to-detect illegal profits can follow.
However, \”hard-to-detect\” seems to mean, by some, as being impossible to detect.
The physical and mathematical evidence is in claim files, across the nation, that have their own synthetic claim loss value estimating methodology FACTS to show & tell for the past FIVE (2002-2007) years.
Too, anyone can \”google\” a insurers\’ name along with keywords like \”unfair claim settlement, deceptive trade practice, intentionally underpay claims, overhead and profit, theft of premiums, deceptive advertising\” etc., for help in shopping for an insurer.
rogerpoegc@gmail.com
So what you\’re saying is the insurance contracts are not a contract of utmost good faith! Correct!
Upon considering the insurance industry and the private and governmental attempts to \”keep it honest,\” one is left with several public facts and realities to absorb:
1) The life insurance industry is operating from actuarial tables that are drawn from 30 year old data OR MORE;
2) ALL insurers operate utilizing the latest and most secure technology, minimizing their community and social benefits as great places for employment, community enhancement and social advancement to society as a whole(therir employees may be very nappy but the surrounding jurisdiction and its taxpaying base may have offered tax and other benefits in hope for a major employer and found technology has allowed the insurer to confound their expectations);
3) Insurers have routinely re-organized companies, established \”not-for-profit technical, testing and political entities, trimmed staffing levels, utilized outside contractors and utilized every technical advancement in computer science to control claim and application processing costs to maximize their profits, not to reduce their costs to the consumer. The abundance of money that flows into their coffers daily dazzles the mind! MetLife has recorded over $40 million dollars daily from its life operations ALONE! That kind of money can buy a lot of governmental laisez faire to their operations, especially at election time; and
4) It is apparent that most insurers do NOT operate in any single jurisdiction. The very act of their policy being sold across a state line should bring in the U.S. Commerce Department, but it does not. The influence and power generated by so much money being at the beck and call of any one entity or insurer is enough for the Treasury Department to be involved but it is not. The Federal Trade bCommission supposedly regulates all trade but it does not. So why do we expect these little podunk state insurance commissioners to take on the big, bad wolf? The insurance industry has not undergone any outwardly, consumer-influenced change in its prfit-generating practices other that technological profit enhancing benefits. That some of those changes were mandatory for security purposes is just the \”ost of doing business\” in my humble opinion.
Those are the four, most relevant reasons I have for espousing more and better monitoring of insurance and claim practices. Perhaps the creation of a national claims and policy clearinghouse would better allow the creation of lower rate structures, more effective and protective coverages and just plain better data from which to make certain rate and operational decisions. As it is now, the insurers have all the data…
Big Joe,
Let\’s see if we can get that passed through legislation!
Your correct! Look what happened in Florida.
Citizens was the only company to write policies at double the rate of most insurers.
Finally other companies are starting to write new policies again because Govenor Christhad to give in to an increase but was able to hold the rates until 2008 anyway.
This country needs more people like Govenor Christ to step up to the insurers and investigate WHERE ALL THE MONEY IS GOING as Jo Joshua Godfrey says!
Check MSN insider trading under any of the Ins Co symbols and you\’ll see where the billions are going at policy holder and investor expense.
As a past user of Cigna (HMO) health insurance, I too learned of their shoddy medical care at one of their Southern California clinics many years ago.
I had a bad cough and went in for an x-ray. The technician took one x-ray and told me the picture did not come out too clear. I asked if he was going to take another and he said he was not because they were only to take one. He gave this to the doctor…and I mentioned that the film was not clear. The doctor looked at it (close-up and from afar) and said it was okay and there was nothing on my lungs. Following this I went to an outside doctor for an x-ray. This doctor spotted a node on my lung. That was when I decided to drop Cigna.