Unfortunately this will not correct a flawed mathematical system of X’s and Y’s to score credit. Why not look at the individual, very simple. How long have you been paying your bills, what are your net assets, and do you have a job, if you have any late pays why. Sound familar, sound too easy, it is and it’s not very hi tech, but it would really stop all this bologna. You see it would take less time to make a loan, yes or no. Years ago it was called loan sharking to take advantage of people when they borrow money, today the banks, and credit company extort high interest from those with a low credit score. A credit score which means absolutely nothing, because we charge higher rates to people even if they have paid every dime the owe. Please do not say others deserve it because they have a higher credit score, actually many times it just means they have been fortunate not to have medical bills, divorce, or death in their family. Just run my credit either make the loan or not and charge people fairly.
Thank you Mark — you stated it very nicely. Taking personal responsibility seems to be another of those things today that is becoming harder and harder to find in society.
while I appreciate Eistein’s words, I have to agree with Mark. I had to declare bankruptcy at the age of 22 because of bad/uneducated choices made in college. I don’t blame anyone, not even the credit card companies parked right outside my dormroom door (literally), for my CHOICE to use a credit card as a form of income.
it’s been an uphill battle, but i can confidently say i see credit cards in a whole new light and i no longer use them. mostly because i dont’ trust myself with them!
Agreed. My credit score isn’t as fabulous as it should be either because I carry high balances. The big Catch 22 is that my interest rate goes up because my balance is high, so my interest charges get higher and higher each month making it harder to lower my balances. Thing is, though, IT’S MY FAULT! Had I been more responsible with my cards, I wouldn’t be having this problem. Also, were I more responsible now and cut back my spending to pay more towards my cards, it would help the problem. Point is, my credit score isn’t as high as I would like because of MY DECISIONS and nobody else’s actions. As was said earlier- I have the power to control it! I am paying them off, and my credit score is gradually getting better and better (imagine that). A poor credit score isn’t just some bad lot in life that you got stuck with, it’s something you earned for yourself.
Thank you all for your insight, and I have been providing service to the general public all my adult life. I have absolutely no problem with being resposible for my own credit. I do have a problem with the scoring. How can looking for a car all weekend lower your credit score, 20 points, and that’s just one example. So Mark would you play golf without knowing how the game is scored. No you would not, and neither should we be scored without knowing all the X’s and O’s. Obviouly, if you have BK’d it’s your fault and your credit history will reflect that. We are all responsible, but we allow scoring so that corporate america can charge whatever rate they want.
If statistics have shown that lower-scored people make more CLAIMS, what is wrong with charging those people a higher premium? If you own an insurance company, wouldn’t you price your product that way?
You don’t work with the general public do you? It’s a fact, people that don’t manage their finances (credit) don’t manage anything else in lives too well either. Your system sounds easy but in reality it can’t replace real data. Yes, there are exceptions and unforseen cicumstances that unfairly affect someone’s credit. Hovever, the vast majority of people with poor credit histories know why they’re to blame. Let’s call it like it is – Your credit score, unlike race & gender, is within your control and can be improved. I know, I know, mistakes happen but for the majority of persons, it’s an accurate measure of their “personal responsibilty”. I’m sort of an advocate of personal responsibility. I deal with the public and hear excuses everyday of why something is always someone else’s fault.
Eistein, I agree with you. Shopping for a car loan or better lease rate shouldn’t lower your score. I’m not a credit expert however I was under the impression that the FCRA created some guidelines to address this and multiple credit inquires within a specific time period (18 days?) are counted as one (1).
I agree with Einstein. I had to file bankruptcy (2yrs ago) not because of any any credit card debt, but more so of a bad choice in people…long story short after 2 mos my car and a rental car were stolen/totalled. The person who did this is in prison and I have a 10yr protection order on….I had 1/2 my ck garnished for over 2yrs and the amount I owed was higher than the intial debt due to the interest rate, so I was forced into making a choice I knew would definately affect my scoring which was pretty good (647). I’m still paying mentally…as far as financially I have 10k in savings, been at my job for over 8yrs and don’t qualify for anything due to my current FICO score (545). On the other hand I know people who have filed…bought a house, car and more credit cards…ended up filing again and now own a condo, another car…within a 10 yr period!!!! How can the current system be as accurate as you all think if this is happening??
We have allowed an admittedly flawed system judge people because it is right 80% of the time. There credit history speaks for itself, not some score that absolutely noone can figure out.It’s only value is that it works fast, requires no human in-put, and is right 80% of the time. Really, if you do not see this as wrong, and that is only beneficial to the lenders than please help us.
As a cost conscious consumer, I took the advice of our government and shopped for the best home mortage interest rate 3 several years ago. I went to one of those websites that shop around for the best rates and give you a list of companies & their current rates which were base on my then 790 credit score. I had 22 inquiry hits on my credit report (some of which were from the same lender but a different office) and it cause my score to drop 2 points per hit or 44 points. I contacted the CRAs explaining that each company requesting my score were for the same refi loan and not mutiple homes etc. The CRAs said too bad, we must count them against your for 2 yrs. That doesn’t sound very fair to me or a good predictor of risks. I even wrote the Feds about the issue and never heard from them.
What provisions are there for victims of identity theft? My score went from 720 down to 540 about 3 years ago when my identity was stolen. I have spent hours upon hours writing letters and sending the police report to the CRAs and creditors/collections etc. ever since then but my score is now only 580. I am ready to just give up and say to heck with it. I’ll just pay cash from now on but unfortunately I will still get penalized for things like car & homeowners insurance. Before you know it they’ll be using this FICO score to raise my eletricity per hour watt rate. Bottom line is that statistics can be used to justify anything, i.e. global warming, horse racing, end of the world, hurricanes etc. Any good statistician can produce statistical results substainiating the desired outcome of the one requesting the study.
First, charging higher insurance based on economic characteristics is illegal. In California, it is called redlining, which we know is charging higher rates in poor neighborhoods, because it was not fair to the individuals in that neighborhood. Secon, credit scoring is illegal in California for the same reason. If you have already paid the interest, and then its was compounded higher, plus penalty, this is loan sharking. Then after you pay all that is owed, they charge even higher interest on you next loan. Please, if you do not see scoring as a tool to charge higher rates, before you are late again, then there profits will continue. All people should be treated fairly, regardless, of thier economic characteristic. Penalties should be charged when they are late, not before just because a score says that you might be late again. It’s the same thing, for insurance charge them after they have a loss not before. This is like getting a ticket before you speed, because your economic group is more likey to get a ticket. We are being abused, and it should not be considered acceptable behavior.
Everyone of these responses whining about the FICO system are people who do not pay their bills or did not pay them properly. If you have numerous inquiries within 14 days, it does not affect your score more then ONE anymore. So, now that is solved, if you pay late, pay too little, do not pay or borrow too much, you screw yourself. I have gone from 780 to 511 and back to 700. All due to my actions. During this time, I paid higher rates and should have. I paid higher premiums and should have. I can not argue as any decent study of a insurance book of business will show higher frequency (and severity) on lower credit scores.
IF THE SHOE FITS?
As far as Quit Whining…I went to two differnt lenders within a 14 day period AND I can tell you my score was affected! Your comments about personally responsiblity….Wouldnt you agree the banks lending money based on a FICO scores alone should be responsible? The current housing disaster proves it!!! BANKS were the ones who were so moneey hungry to give people loans that they didnt bother to check some simple facts like INCOME, LENGTH OF EMPLOYMENT, etc which FICO doesn’t take into consideration AT ALL!! My UNEMPLOYED niece recently graduated HS and decided to open a bank account…do you think the bank should have given her a credit card with a $500+ limit?…They did with no credit at all..she hasn’t had to pay any bill on time yet. We are not whining…we are merely wanting a system that checks the facts about your buying status and the current system is flawed in that department.
More than ever it is time for people to understand the “credit game” and exactly what’s going on. I’m sorry to break the news to you but if you don’t have a plan for your credit the creditor’s do! Their primary goal is profit, and one of the most profitable places to keep you is the “sub-prime gap”. The credit scoring system is designed for one purpose, and one purpose only – to maximize creditor profits. Of course, debt collectors and credit bureaus are also making some cake but they just happen to be on the side lines watching the “system” they’ve designed. This is why I believe the current FICO system is inherently corrupt because of who profits from it. For years consumer advocate groups have lobbied for reform and in 2004 Congress (notice Congress is much different than Pro-gress) approved changes to the FCRA that placed new procedural requirements on the credit bureaus. Not suprisely, these changes have accomplished NOTHING in terms of ACCURACY OF INFORMATION. In addition, regulators are not enforcing the new laws. Ask yourself why the credit bureaus are still allowing debt collectors to place hard inquiries on consumer reports (which can lower a score up to 35 pts) when these inquiries should be a harmless account review? Watch our for re-aging of accounts or reinsertion of deleted items! The FTC knows exactly what is going on and yet they do nothing. It appears we have the best government (and regulators) CORPORATE money can buy.
Unfortunately this will not correct a flawed mathematical system of X’s and Y’s to score credit. Why not look at the individual, very simple. How long have you been paying your bills, what are your net assets, and do you have a job, if you have any late pays why. Sound familar, sound too easy, it is and it’s not very hi tech, but it would really stop all this bologna. You see it would take less time to make a loan, yes or no. Years ago it was called loan sharking to take advantage of people when they borrow money, today the banks, and credit company extort high interest from those with a low credit score. A credit score which means absolutely nothing, because we charge higher rates to people even if they have paid every dime the owe. Please do not say others deserve it because they have a higher credit score, actually many times it just means they have been fortunate not to have medical bills, divorce, or death in their family. Just run my credit either make the loan or not and charge people fairly.
Thank you Mark — you stated it very nicely. Taking personal responsibility seems to be another of those things today that is becoming harder and harder to find in society.
while I appreciate Eistein’s words, I have to agree with Mark. I had to declare bankruptcy at the age of 22 because of bad/uneducated choices made in college. I don’t blame anyone, not even the credit card companies parked right outside my dormroom door (literally), for my CHOICE to use a credit card as a form of income.
it’s been an uphill battle, but i can confidently say i see credit cards in a whole new light and i no longer use them. mostly because i dont’ trust myself with them!
Agreed. My credit score isn’t as fabulous as it should be either because I carry high balances. The big Catch 22 is that my interest rate goes up because my balance is high, so my interest charges get higher and higher each month making it harder to lower my balances. Thing is, though, IT’S MY FAULT! Had I been more responsible with my cards, I wouldn’t be having this problem. Also, were I more responsible now and cut back my spending to pay more towards my cards, it would help the problem. Point is, my credit score isn’t as high as I would like because of MY DECISIONS and nobody else’s actions. As was said earlier- I have the power to control it! I am paying them off, and my credit score is gradually getting better and better (imagine that). A poor credit score isn’t just some bad lot in life that you got stuck with, it’s something you earned for yourself.
Thank you all for your insight, and I have been providing service to the general public all my adult life. I have absolutely no problem with being resposible for my own credit. I do have a problem with the scoring. How can looking for a car all weekend lower your credit score, 20 points, and that’s just one example. So Mark would you play golf without knowing how the game is scored. No you would not, and neither should we be scored without knowing all the X’s and O’s. Obviouly, if you have BK’d it’s your fault and your credit history will reflect that. We are all responsible, but we allow scoring so that corporate america can charge whatever rate they want.
If statistics have shown that lower-scored people make more CLAIMS, what is wrong with charging those people a higher premium? If you own an insurance company, wouldn’t you price your product that way?
You don’t work with the general public do you? It’s a fact, people that don’t manage their finances (credit) don’t manage anything else in lives too well either. Your system sounds easy but in reality it can’t replace real data. Yes, there are exceptions and unforseen cicumstances that unfairly affect someone’s credit. Hovever, the vast majority of people with poor credit histories know why they’re to blame. Let’s call it like it is – Your credit score, unlike race & gender, is within your control and can be improved. I know, I know, mistakes happen but for the majority of persons, it’s an accurate measure of their “personal responsibilty”. I’m sort of an advocate of personal responsibility. I deal with the public and hear excuses everyday of why something is always someone else’s fault.
Eistein, I agree with you. Shopping for a car loan or better lease rate shouldn’t lower your score. I’m not a credit expert however I was under the impression that the FCRA created some guidelines to address this and multiple credit inquires within a specific time period (18 days?) are counted as one (1).
I agree with Einstein. I had to file bankruptcy (2yrs ago) not because of any any credit card debt, but more so of a bad choice in people…long story short after 2 mos my car and a rental car were stolen/totalled. The person who did this is in prison and I have a 10yr protection order on….I had 1/2 my ck garnished for over 2yrs and the amount I owed was higher than the intial debt due to the interest rate, so I was forced into making a choice I knew would definately affect my scoring which was pretty good (647). I’m still paying mentally…as far as financially I have 10k in savings, been at my job for over 8yrs and don’t qualify for anything due to my current FICO score (545). On the other hand I know people who have filed…bought a house, car and more credit cards…ended up filing again and now own a condo, another car…within a 10 yr period!!!! How can the current system be as accurate as you all think if this is happening??
We have allowed an admittedly flawed system judge people because it is right 80% of the time. There credit history speaks for itself, not some score that absolutely noone can figure out.It’s only value is that it works fast, requires no human in-put, and is right 80% of the time. Really, if you do not see this as wrong, and that is only beneficial to the lenders than please help us.
As a cost conscious consumer, I took the advice of our government and shopped for the best home mortage interest rate 3 several years ago. I went to one of those websites that shop around for the best rates and give you a list of companies & their current rates which were base on my then 790 credit score. I had 22 inquiry hits on my credit report (some of which were from the same lender but a different office) and it cause my score to drop 2 points per hit or 44 points. I contacted the CRAs explaining that each company requesting my score were for the same refi loan and not mutiple homes etc. The CRAs said too bad, we must count them against your for 2 yrs. That doesn’t sound very fair to me or a good predictor of risks. I even wrote the Feds about the issue and never heard from them.
What provisions are there for victims of identity theft? My score went from 720 down to 540 about 3 years ago when my identity was stolen. I have spent hours upon hours writing letters and sending the police report to the CRAs and creditors/collections etc. ever since then but my score is now only 580. I am ready to just give up and say to heck with it. I’ll just pay cash from now on but unfortunately I will still get penalized for things like car & homeowners insurance. Before you know it they’ll be using this FICO score to raise my eletricity per hour watt rate. Bottom line is that statistics can be used to justify anything, i.e. global warming, horse racing, end of the world, hurricanes etc. Any good statistician can produce statistical results substainiating the desired outcome of the one requesting the study.
First, charging higher insurance based on economic characteristics is illegal. In California, it is called redlining, which we know is charging higher rates in poor neighborhoods, because it was not fair to the individuals in that neighborhood. Secon, credit scoring is illegal in California for the same reason. If you have already paid the interest, and then its was compounded higher, plus penalty, this is loan sharking. Then after you pay all that is owed, they charge even higher interest on you next loan. Please, if you do not see scoring as a tool to charge higher rates, before you are late again, then there profits will continue. All people should be treated fairly, regardless, of thier economic characteristic. Penalties should be charged when they are late, not before just because a score says that you might be late again. It’s the same thing, for insurance charge them after they have a loss not before. This is like getting a ticket before you speed, because your economic group is more likey to get a ticket. We are being abused, and it should not be considered acceptable behavior.
Everyone of these responses whining about the FICO system are people who do not pay their bills or did not pay them properly. If you have numerous inquiries within 14 days, it does not affect your score more then ONE anymore. So, now that is solved, if you pay late, pay too little, do not pay or borrow too much, you screw yourself. I have gone from 780 to 511 and back to 700. All due to my actions. During this time, I paid higher rates and should have. I paid higher premiums and should have. I can not argue as any decent study of a insurance book of business will show higher frequency (and severity) on lower credit scores.
IF THE SHOE FITS?
As far as Quit Whining…I went to two differnt lenders within a 14 day period AND I can tell you my score was affected! Your comments about personally responsiblity….Wouldnt you agree the banks lending money based on a FICO scores alone should be responsible? The current housing disaster proves it!!! BANKS were the ones who were so moneey hungry to give people loans that they didnt bother to check some simple facts like INCOME, LENGTH OF EMPLOYMENT, etc which FICO doesn’t take into consideration AT ALL!! My UNEMPLOYED niece recently graduated HS and decided to open a bank account…do you think the bank should have given her a credit card with a $500+ limit?…They did with no credit at all..she hasn’t had to pay any bill on time yet. We are not whining…we are merely wanting a system that checks the facts about your buying status and the current system is flawed in that department.
More than ever it is time for people to understand the “credit game” and exactly what’s going on. I’m sorry to break the news to you but if you don’t have a plan for your credit the creditor’s do! Their primary goal is profit, and one of the most profitable places to keep you is the “sub-prime gap”. The credit scoring system is designed for one purpose, and one purpose only – to maximize creditor profits. Of course, debt collectors and credit bureaus are also making some cake but they just happen to be on the side lines watching the “system” they’ve designed. This is why I believe the current FICO system is inherently corrupt because of who profits from it. For years consumer advocate groups have lobbied for reform and in 2004 Congress (notice Congress is much different than Pro-gress) approved changes to the FCRA that placed new procedural requirements on the credit bureaus. Not suprisely, these changes have accomplished NOTHING in terms of ACCURACY OF INFORMATION. In addition, regulators are not enforcing the new laws. Ask yourself why the credit bureaus are still allowing debt collectors to place hard inquiries on consumer reports (which can lower a score up to 35 pts) when these inquiries should be a harmless account review? Watch our for re-aging of accounts or reinsertion of deleted items! The FTC knows exactly what is going on and yet they do nothing. It appears we have the best government (and regulators) CORPORATE money can buy.