Not a single mention of Scientific-Atlanta or the other parties being sued by name. A lot of comments about Enron (55 by the various state attorneys general in their filing according to the article). How about comments on the merits of the case the Supreme Court will rule on and not some hypothetical other case.
I am not surprised that President Bush would support a position that refuses to hold those accountable for fraud from paying for it.
I have no doubt that the Enron consultants
(including their auditors) had knowledge of the fraud.
At minimum, they should have had knowledge of the fraud if they were in fact doing their work without undue company influence
(the buck trumps the ethical obligations I guess).
So…The Presidents position continues to allow those who partake in fraudulent actions from being held accountable.
No Surprise as we’ve already learned this from the recent Scooter Libby situation.
Congress has never recognized this “right,” why should the executive? I guess if you can’t get what you want democratically, go to court and force it on the public. That really helps “the little guy.”
Be careful with, “if you can’t get it done democratically, go to the court…” as this is mostly done by special interest groups and left-leaning organizations.
Since corporations can’t vote, and there are only a few executives potentially helped by this (not any where close to enough to turn an election), intimating that this is in any way is politically motivated is rediculous.
Why do we have the “get the big guy” mentality? The “big guy” is where most jobs (either directly or via contract) originate. Get them too much and jobs go away.
If the prosecution wins, even I, as an agent/broker, could face the potential of being pulled in just becuase I wrote the D&O or Fiduciary coverage for a company.
Now, if, through investigation by the SEC, it is found that I knew and/or contributed to any misdeeds, then I should go down. That’s allowed now.
Agents and brokers don’t want to be named and have to defend ourselves just because we had business dealings. That cost money.
Just be careful in broad generalizations. And be careful what you ask for, as you may get stung by it.
>>>Be careful with, “if you can’t get it done democratically, go to the court…” as this is mostly done by special interest groups and left-leaning organizations.
It is refreshing to see how many IJ readers have figured it out about Bush, his family and his role as puppet head of government by the rich, secured, among other means, through fears of terrorism and the commencement of a war
Bush had his own intimate involvement with corporate misrepresentation and failure in West Texas (Arbusto and Harken Energy) as did brother Neil with a savings and loan (Silverado–its failure cost taxpayers a cool $1 billion).
George’s life lesson in accountability was to have rich friends set him up with the Texas Rangers baseball team. Maybe it should have been the Texas Rangers Prison Team instead and we wold have been spared the last 7 years.
And don’t worry Neil’s being taken care of by Saudi Arabian investors selling weak software to school systems through the ol’ influence game. 15 of the 19 hijackers were citizens of that country as is OBL, himself. We attacked its neighbor instead. Go figure…
Leaving aside that sorry family, if the SEC had not been little more than a lap dog in recent years, there wouldn’t be a need for sterner action. Civil litigation threats with affordable fines after non-admissions of guilt are no answer and in fact impede and prevent redress by stockholders. I say “Slammer time for rich crooks and their enablers. Let them eat prison cake.”
Is more regulation needed? Just wait until you see what comes out of the mortgage meltdown now in progress–malfeasance at all levels and the tax payers will get dumped on again, right Neil?
Careful with the “babe” thing. I’m an old (well, early middle-aged) dude (although it is hard to be a “dude” when you are married and have two daughters – sort of kills that perception).
Where do you work? Is it a “Big Guy” or a little guy that has contracts with a big guy?
Do you own stock, analyze your portfolio before you answer, I’ll bet there’s some big guy stocks in there.
A crook is a crook, really doesn’t matter how much of a crook – little guys steal and cheat (far more often than the big). We just don’t hear it on the news.
HI CBJ,
I partially agree with you.
I believe that a crook is a crook but I have found that the little crooks often go to jail while the Big (rip off you whole life savings) Crooks pay a fine with stolen money and then start all over again.
If both the big crooks and the little crooks all went to jail, maybe we’d all be better off but I suspect this won’t happen.
Certainly not with the present US Executive Branch in power…
Enron bigwigs went on trade trips with the Clinton administration.
Ken Lay pitched the idea of carbon credits to clinton and Gore in the oval office. Gore now owns a carbon credit scam business from which he buys his bogus carbon credits. But wait – there’s more!
The Clinton Legacy of Uniqueness:
– The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
– Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
– Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
– Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
– Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
Clinton Admin Firsts:
– First president sued for sexual harassment
– First president accused of rape
– First first lady to come under criminal investigation
– Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
– First president to establish a legal defense fund
– First president to be held in contempt of court
– Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
– Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
– First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court
Clinton & Co.
– Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
– Number of these convictions during Clinton’s presidency: 33
– Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
– Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122
Brought to you by “the most ethical administration in history.”
Just to reflect on the current adminstration, Willy, how many crimes have Bush administration people been convicted of crimes. Do you have the same numbers? I have heard Media Mogul and so many others post hate about President Bush, I’m just curious.
Nobody Important – First, I got the Clinton figures from http://www.prorev.com, where there’re tons more facts. Progressive Review is hardly a rightwing bastion.
Second, the only one that comes to mind in answer to your question was Scooter Libby, who was charged with perjury during an investigation for which no one else was indicted. This means that he contradicted himself or other witnesses and was prosecuted even though the prosecutor knew that it was Richard Armitage that “leaked” Plame’s ID, which was not a crime because no one was prosecuted for it.
But the DailyKook readers might have access to sources I don’t for news, like space aliens and talking cats, so we’ll see what they come up with.
I am amazed at how many of you want to open the flood gates to lawsuits against potential deep pockets who may have had absolutely nothing to do with any fraud that was committed. If a third party was involved in the fraud then obviously they should be help liable. All this case is about is opening more doors for the trial lawyers to line their pockets without regard to laibility.
Maybe it’s just me not understanding Joe, but it looks like some of your post is missing. My yard man is me. I’m not aware of any criminal activity by my yard man. Just joking Joe. I’m trying hard to be mellow in my posts.
there will never be any prosecution of anyone in the executive branch simply because of the ability to declare executive priviledge. Nixon almost got away with “crimes”, the Reagan team did, Clinton did and now Dubya and friends learned very well from that history. None of his aides or cabinet will answer to anyone; Bush and Cheney are nothing new. Political animals all act the same. It did not surprise me that Libby’s sentence was communted; he’ll land on his feet. Just like corporate governess, in politics if you perform badly, you’ll be rewarded with a golden parachute. There is no real difference at the top: they are all in this together; they just take turns bashing one another to keep up the fascade.
Ok Mike, Bush is wrong again and you clearly dislike him so, who’s your choice for President in 08? If you don’t have a favorite now can you tell us who’s your favorite former President?
and it can be said that… “Be careful with, “if you can’t get it done democratically, go to the court…” as this is mostly done by special interest groups and RIGHT-leaning organizations.
I’m assuming you are being sarcastic with your post about the right using the courts to get laws they can’t pass. That’s almost the exclusive property of the liberals.
You’re right; the right has learned how to use the executive branch to pack the courts at all levels and THEN have the courts revisit 40 year old decisions and reverse themselves so get their way. This, BTW, is what the founding fathers wanted to prevent, that the courts would not move left and right like the other two branches of government, after elections.
So a court that had been falling left for almost 50 years edges back towards the center and you think that’s conservative bias? The only president who actually tried to pack the Supreme Court in reality was FDR, the God of Democrats. A president should appoint those who he believes shares his beliefs. That’s part of what’s so important about electing a president. If you consider appointing those who share your views packing, so be it.
No sarcasm whatsoever. The right and the neo-kkkons used the Courts to push their religious agenda as much as the libs use the courts to pursue their agendas. To say that this does not happen is to be in plain denial and that’s not healthy.
Not a single mention of Scientific-Atlanta or the other parties being sued by name. A lot of comments about Enron (55 by the various state attorneys general in their filing according to the article). How about comments on the merits of the case the Supreme Court will rule on and not some hypothetical other case.
I am not surprised that President Bush would support a position that refuses to hold those accountable for fraud from paying for it.
I have no doubt that the Enron consultants
(including their auditors) had knowledge of the fraud.
At minimum, they should have had knowledge of the fraud if they were in fact doing their work without undue company influence
(the buck trumps the ethical obligations I guess).
So…The Presidents position continues to allow those who partake in fraudulent actions from being held accountable.
No Surprise as we’ve already learned this from the recent Scooter Libby situation.
it is all about the corporate profits with this guy
Congress has never recognized this “right,” why should the executive? I guess if you can’t get what you want democratically, go to court and force it on the public. That really helps “the little guy.”
Be careful with, “if you can’t get it done democratically, go to the court…” as this is mostly done by special interest groups and left-leaning organizations.
Since corporations can’t vote, and there are only a few executives potentially helped by this (not any where close to enough to turn an election), intimating that this is in any way is politically motivated is rediculous.
Why do we have the “get the big guy” mentality? The “big guy” is where most jobs (either directly or via contract) originate. Get them too much and jobs go away.
If the prosecution wins, even I, as an agent/broker, could face the potential of being pulled in just becuase I wrote the D&O or Fiduciary coverage for a company.
Now, if, through investigation by the SEC, it is found that I knew and/or contributed to any misdeeds, then I should go down. That’s allowed now.
Agents and brokers don’t want to be named and have to defend ourselves just because we had business dealings. That cost money.
Just be careful in broad generalizations. And be careful what you ask for, as you may get stung by it.
>>>Be careful with, “if you can’t get it done democratically, go to the court…” as this is mostly done by special interest groups and left-leaning organizations.
My remarks were twice cut off for some reason. I was trying to say simply that I was being sarcastic.
It is refreshing to see how many IJ readers have figured it out about Bush, his family and his role as puppet head of government by the rich, secured, among other means, through fears of terrorism and the commencement of a war
Bush had his own intimate involvement with corporate misrepresentation and failure in West Texas (Arbusto and Harken Energy) as did brother Neil with a savings and loan (Silverado–its failure cost taxpayers a cool $1 billion).
George’s life lesson in accountability was to have rich friends set him up with the Texas Rangers baseball team. Maybe it should have been the Texas Rangers Prison Team instead and we wold have been spared the last 7 years.
And don’t worry Neil’s being taken care of by Saudi Arabian investors selling weak software to school systems through the ol’ influence game. 15 of the 19 hijackers were citizens of that country as is OBL, himself. We attacked its neighbor instead. Go figure…
Leaving aside that sorry family, if the SEC had not been little more than a lap dog in recent years, there wouldn’t be a need for sterner action. Civil litigation threats with affordable fines after non-admissions of guilt are no answer and in fact impede and prevent redress by stockholders. I say “Slammer time for rich crooks and their enablers. Let them eat prison cake.”
Is more regulation needed? Just wait until you see what comes out of the mortgage meltdown now in progress–malfeasance at all levels and the tax payers will get dumped on again, right Neil?
Can Bush even spell “scheme”?
So… how many hours a day do you spend reading http://www.dailykook.com?
Willy,
I like your style.
Thanks, babe.
Careful with the “babe” thing. I’m an old (well, early middle-aged) dude (although it is hard to be a “dude” when you are married and have two daughters – sort of kills that perception).
Willie and CJ–Thanks for showing us the kind of people that got us where we want to be today.
I couldn’t have asked for a better example. Have a great weekend! Remember, keep not thinking!
It’s not really the big guy where the jobs originate, it is indeed the little guy. It’s the “big guy” where most of the crooks are.
Just more yada, yada, yada from one of our favorite posters.
Where do you work? Is it a “Big Guy” or a little guy that has contracts with a big guy?
Do you own stock, analyze your portfolio before you answer, I’ll bet there’s some big guy stocks in there.
A crook is a crook, really doesn’t matter how much of a crook – little guys steal and cheat (far more often than the big). We just don’t hear it on the news.
Wow, thanks! Stock market high, taxes low.
Where would you like to be?
I meant “babe” in a Dennis Miller kinda way.
So… how much time have you spent on http://www.huffingtonpost.com today, babe?
Oh, and thanks for demonstrating your intellectual bankruptcy with the name calling. Nice touch, that.
Yeah, just wanted to give “media mogul” something to work with.
HI CBJ,
I partially agree with you.
I believe that a crook is a crook but I have found that the little crooks often go to jail while the Big (rip off you whole life savings) Crooks pay a fine with stolen money and then start all over again.
If both the big crooks and the little crooks all went to jail, maybe we’d all be better off but I suspect this won’t happen.
Certainly not with the present US Executive Branch in power…
Enron bigwigs went on trade trips with the Clinton administration.
Ken Lay pitched the idea of carbon credits to clinton and Gore in the oval office. Gore now owns a carbon credit scam business from which he buys his bogus carbon credits. But wait – there’s more!
The Clinton Legacy of Uniqueness:
– The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
– Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates
– Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
– Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
– Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
Clinton Admin Firsts:
– First president sued for sexual harassment
– First president accused of rape
– First first lady to come under criminal investigation
– Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
– First president to establish a legal defense fund
– First president to be held in contempt of court
– Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
– Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad
– First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court
Clinton & Co.
– Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47
– Number of these convictions during Clinton’s presidency: 33
– Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
– Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122
Brought to you by “the most ethical administration in history.”
Just to reflect on the current adminstration, Willy, how many crimes have Bush administration people been convicted of crimes. Do you have the same numbers? I have heard Media Mogul and so many others post hate about President Bush, I’m just curious.
Nobody Important – First, I got the Clinton figures from http://www.prorev.com, where there’re tons more facts. Progressive Review is hardly a rightwing bastion.
Second, the only one that comes to mind in answer to your question was Scooter Libby, who was charged with perjury during an investigation for which no one else was indicted. This means that he contradicted himself or other witnesses and was prosecuted even though the prosecutor knew that it was Richard Armitage that “leaked” Plame’s ID, which was not a crime because no one was prosecuted for it.
But the DailyKook readers might have access to sources I don’t for news, like space aliens and talking cats, so we’ll see what they come up with.
I set you up for scathing commentary and you failed me Willy. Hopefully the ranting Bush haters have some real or made up facts to present.
of you want to be prosecuted for criminal activity b/c your yard man committed a crime and worked for you also. media mogul? nobody important?
I am amazed at how many of you want to open the flood gates to lawsuits against potential deep pockets who may have had absolutely nothing to do with any fraud that was committed. If a third party was involved in the fraud then obviously they should be help liable. All this case is about is opening more doors for the trial lawyers to line their pockets without regard to laibility.
Maybe it’s just me not understanding Joe, but it looks like some of your post is missing. My yard man is me. I’m not aware of any criminal activity by my yard man. Just joking Joe. I’m trying hard to be mellow in my posts.
there will never be any prosecution of anyone in the executive branch simply because of the ability to declare executive priviledge. Nixon almost got away with “crimes”, the Reagan team did, Clinton did and now Dubya and friends learned very well from that history. None of his aides or cabinet will answer to anyone; Bush and Cheney are nothing new. Political animals all act the same. It did not surprise me that Libby’s sentence was communted; he’ll land on his feet. Just like corporate governess, in politics if you perform badly, you’ll be rewarded with a golden parachute. There is no real difference at the top: they are all in this together; they just take turns bashing one another to keep up the fascade.
Ok Mike, Bush is wrong again and you clearly dislike him so, who’s your choice for President in 08? If you don’t have a favorite now can you tell us who’s your favorite former President?
Kucinich is the only candidate that cares about the average Joe
I like to think of him as one of the yellow-backed Democrats. Lots of that type of wildlife out there these days.
and it can be said that… “Be careful with, “if you can’t get it done democratically, go to the court…” as this is mostly done by special interest groups and RIGHT-leaning organizations.
I’m assuming you are being sarcastic with your post about the right using the courts to get laws they can’t pass. That’s almost the exclusive property of the liberals.
You’re right; the right has learned how to use the executive branch to pack the courts at all levels and THEN have the courts revisit 40 year old decisions and reverse themselves so get their way. This, BTW, is what the founding fathers wanted to prevent, that the courts would not move left and right like the other two branches of government, after elections.
So a court that had been falling left for almost 50 years edges back towards the center and you think that’s conservative bias? The only president who actually tried to pack the Supreme Court in reality was FDR, the God of Democrats. A president should appoint those who he believes shares his beliefs. That’s part of what’s so important about electing a president. If you consider appointing those who share your views packing, so be it.
Stat Guy,
You must be one of them bleeding heart liberals. I really think you are confused on this issue. Go back and read the article again.
G W
No sarcasm whatsoever. The right and the neo-kkkons used the Courts to push their religious agenda as much as the libs use the courts to pursue their agendas. To say that this does not happen is to be in plain denial and that’s not healthy.