The only problem I see with a federal sales tax is that even if they do abolish the income tax, it won’t be long before the urge for money to waste grows so strong in congress that we have BOTH taxes.
Flatten out the income tax IMO. 15%,20%,25% brackets; no exemptions, deductions, loopholes or anything else.
To Cap – before instituting the sales tax, we must insist that the 16th amendment that authorizes income tax is repealed.
To exjarhead – it’s a sad statement that the tax code dictates our life decisions. We shouldn’t have to make our decision to buy or rent based on income taxes.
How about not worrying about Congressional urges to overspend and have an amendment that with each spending bill, Congress must specify the section of the Constitution that permits the expenditure?
Having been through an audit for the two years in which my Wife and I earned practically nothing in a failed franchise business, and having to pay exhorbitant tax liabilities following the audit (which encompassed two years), I can tell you that the tax man is not your friend. If you are called upon for an audit, you need to lawyer up and get someone on your side who can talk to these crooks in the same way they talk to you. After my experience, I’ve come to think that Steve Forbes was right on with his flat tax proposal when he was running for President.
As I understand it, a national sales tax or consumption tax would force those in the underground economy to start contributing. Big time drug dealers for instance who don’t pay taxes would have to do so when buying a Rolls Royce or other expensive items. Is this thinking correct?
The previous posts saying that the current tax department needs to go away first are correct. We could easily wind up paying both kinds of tax
where the hell are the six figure incomes in the scheme of things? the middle class is bleeding. foreclosures, taxes, insurance premiums, auto and home, health care, seniors eating cat food ao they can pay for meds. we,re on a roller coaster to hell!!!!
What do six figure incomes have to do with anything? Most of what you mention are the result of personal choices.
Foreclosures – if you buy more house than you can afford, you’re likely to default.
Insurance premiums – home has a lot to do with where you choose to live; auto has a lot to do with how you drive
Seniors eating cat food so they can pay for meds is a myth.
Health care, you may have a point – it’s largely driven by regulation and lawsuits.
And taxes I assume are your solution – “Tax the rich,” right?
The middle class can do just fine if they can be content to live within their means. You don’t really need a new construction $500,000 house, a new car every other year, the biggest flat screen tv, and every other latest and greatest gadget that comes out.
The Federal Tax Law went into effect on 10/2/1913 – the tax was 1%. We have come a long way in the past 94 years and I can’t say that it has been for the good – I think it is more for the greed. It would also help if those that were spending our tax dollars, if they really are necessary, were more accountable and had a better ability to spend it wisely.
How about not worrying about Congressional urges to overspend or to be greedy and have a Constitutional amendment that with each spending bill, Congress must specify the section of the Constitution that permits the expenditure?
“But, let’s face it. The IRS doesn’t mind if people are a little nervous.” That is the type statements that infuriate me. The government has a open check book and send their henchmen to collect.
NED, please eat s–t !!!!. Six figure incomes are primarily the ones driving high price cars, undertaking the high ticket house….after all they have to keep up with the “Blue Bloods”. The so called “middle class”, is exactly that, in the middle of this sinking mud pile. The “Middle Class” are the ones working, without having that grand ol’ bonus buy out when one calls it quit. The politicians in this country, especially those in Congress, write their own ticket, without any accountabilities. The senior section paid their dues and now are left out in the cold, because our elected officials stole our monies from the Soc. Sec Fund , without one request to do so from those directly involved….the soc sec members. Now we are told to suck up and take cuts in our meager monthly benefits. If these thieves didn’t attack the Soc Sec Fund, We wouldn’t be in this hell hole now.
“But, let’s face it. The IRS doesn’t mind if people are a little nervous.” That’s because people who work for the IRS are sick lowlifes who don’t want to take a job in the real world where people aren’t forced to pay by violence or the threat of same.
I think if you plan to use social security in your retirement years you should pay in, but if you don’t want to use it (and i’m willing to take that chance) then you shouldn’t have to pay into it now. lord knows by the time i get to be 65 or 70, there will be no such thing as retirement. i’ll probably be working until the day i die.
Aren’t those that make the money entitled to spend the money? Those that can afford it are the ones that should buy high price cars and high ticket houses.
I’m not one of them. I make less than $100,000 and I have a nice 30 year old 4 bedroom in the Northeast, 2 well-running cars (model years 1997 and 2000), my kids were in private school, now homeschooled, I’m putting away 6% gross into my 401k and I give my tithe and offering to my church (10%+ of gross income).
What I don’t have is a plasma tv, cable or satellite, playstation (or any such nonsense); we eat at home, not out 5 times a week and we take modest vacations. I make choices about how to spend what I have — I take care of the necessities and I do without the luxuries I can’t afford.
I take it you’re collecting social security? I think social security was a bad idea because it gives a false sense of security. It makes people think that’s all they’ll need to retire so they don’t prepare properly. You say that it’s the congress that’s messed things up and I agree with that. So why the hostility toward those who are better off? Their success has nothing to do with your dilemma.
The 16th amendment did not create any taxes that didn’t exist before it was supposedly ratified…at least that what the supreme court said a long time ago. The IRS just over rules the constitution as Bush said, it’s just a GD piece of paper. Then the same elite banker that own the federal reserve started buying up the courts and all of a sudden we have to pay taxes that go right into their coffers. These are the people that own the presses that print the money…yeah…that’s right they create wealth out of thin air to loan back to the USA and then take your precious income tax as interest on the money the printed…talk about the ultimate scam!!! We need to abolish the federal reserve system and as the constitution (google this, most americans have no idea it even exists or what it is any more) states the US should issue a currency backed by GOLD. Name one nation that had a fiat currency that survived…hint…there are NONE!
People pay taxes because they’ve been conditioned too, just like we’ve been conditioned to get vaccinated so we can rot our kids brains w/ Mercury and shoot our young girls full of live cancer viruses (HPV vaccine). If you don’t pay your taxes the Federal Reserve’s shake down crews come and empty your pockets at gun point. This is no different than a mob shake down.
NONE, ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH of the income tax you pay goes to support any of our infastructure. It all goes to the private, run for profit federal reserve as interest on the money they’ve printed and loaned back to the USA.
You need to check out the move America: freedom to facism, Ron Paul, and Grace Commission Report…
As I’ve heard Dave Ramsey explain it, the tax code shouldn’t influence whether you buy or rent. It doesn’t make sense financially to pay the bank $10,000. in interest so that you can save $2,500. in taxes. The “mortgage tax deduction” benefits banks more than taxpayers. It should be incentive enough for people to buy homes that they are putting their money into something that will hold and hopefully appreciate in value, not to mention the quality of life and community.
If you buy a house within your means, your annual interest may even be less than the standard deduction, so the income tax code is irrelevant. Dave says budget, live within your means, pay off your mortgage, and if you still want the deduction, donate the same amout to a church or charity.
I like how you group people with six-figure salaries into the filthy rich group. Let me tell you this… having a six figure income was a choice. A lot of education, a lot of hard work.
The unfortunate thing is that too many people decide to take the easy road but want everything that some of us have earned.
Also, just because someone has a six figure income doesn’t mean that they are rich. Oh, I guess I could be if I’d quit supporting the various groups “I choose to” or if I didn’t put my kinds through school, etc. etc. etc. As far as houses and cars. Try $175,000 home, a 2004 F-150 and 2001 Windstar. Those sure are big toys, aren’t they.
I got my annual Soc Sec benefits mailing last week. It said that I would have something like $1500/mo if I retire at 65…….like there will be any money left in the pool in 25 years.
Well said.
Many complain, but few stand up. The IRS is an obnoxious, over bearing bulling corporation that has no constitutional authority. It is the same as the mafia demanding protection money from merchants. It is protected by congressional prostitutes who have sold themselves to the Federal Reserve Cartel for fame and fortune.
Our congress, our judges and our law enforcement agences have all sold themselves to the bankers and all the american people can bring themselves to do is quip about how it should be. If you allow yourself to be intimidated by a bully because you are afraid of losing your freedom or God forbide your “STUFF” then you have become a slave to the bully and you have already lost your “STUFF.” It’s just a matter of time until the bully comes around to collect. He may take it all at once of small portions over time, but make no mistake about it, he will eventually have it all. And you will be left to ponder once again “what if.” What if – I had stood firm the first time?
What if – I had demanded to be treated with respect and questioned the IRS’s Authority?
What if – I had read the constitution?
what if – I had elected the right guy?
What if – I knew more about the origin of the Federal Reserve?
What if i was a true American and not afraid of my government?
I have read many of the same books and articles detailing how the IRS is illegally robbing America of its monies; how the income tax initially came about and how it is perpetuated; how we can “opt out” and many other things. The truth is – we’re stuck. This is the system we have, we want what the government is paying for with these monies and because of these factors we must now learn to live within the system we’ve created. The other option is to bring a force of millions to bear on the government to make Congress pay for only those things the Constitution calls for – the safety and well-being of the nation as a whole, interstate commerce and a federal judiciary (I may be missing a couple of things). The rest was supposed to be handled by the states.
As long as we want the feds to pay for all this stuff we should have either a flat income tax (why take a higher percentage just because I make more) or a consumption tax – not both. There should be no deductions. It’s been proven that people do not donate to charities because they want the tax deduction and the mortgage interest deduction is not worth buying a house for (it’s usually cheaper to rent than buy).
So, which do you want – the current spending scheme fixed or the spending scheme laid out 200+ years ago? Or something else? Remember you have to pay to have.
You’re right lastbat. We have become soft and lazy and too many of us want “free” benefits from the feds. Look at the 44% who think “free” healthcare is a great idea.
I keep voting for candidates who claim to share my values, but way too many Americans don’t bother to vote at all. So long as the gifts keep coming from Uncle Sam most folks don’t seem to care.
Lastbat, apparently there are a few more books that you must read. The IRS is a bulldog on the congressional prostitutes leash. The income tax was not implemented to pay the nations bills or grow or economy. Our economy was doing just fine and growing at three to four times the current rate.
The imcome tax was iniated by greedy bankers to steal the wealth from our economy. The congress went along because it gave them the power they craved.
In case you haven’t noticed the IRS is starting to lose tax evasion court cases because the public is more aware of the government’s duplicity.
So, to answer your question, I prefer the tax scheme set up 200+ years ago. Once you become more informed I think you will agree with me. You can start by visiting the website, “the tax that never was.com”
vexed – already been there. I’ve read “The Government Mafia” and most of his other books (forget the author’s name at the moment). I’ve seen the sites. I’m not saying the system we have now is great. What I’m saying is that it is the system we have and we as a nation need to decide if we want to change it. If the feds aren’t paying for it then somebody has to. And no, not all the money is going straight to the federal reserve.
If you are wondering if I would prefer a less involved federal government the answer is “yes”. I think between the states and fairly regulated (by “fairly” I mean in the concept of fairness and equity) private industry can handle this stuff. I believe elected officials should have to travel coach, be paid the median wage of the district they represent, take no gifts, and in general be forced to work for the good of the country instead of their own pocket. I believe the tax base that existed prior the 1940’s was adequate and could be made to work again. But I do not have the money to fight a tax evasion case so will pay my taxes until such a time as the nation wises up and changes the system. Put a national referendum on my ballot to alter the tax system to something that makes sense and the thing will smoke with the speed I vote yes and mail it in. Until then, I pay my money to the man and stay out of legal trouble I can’t afford – like most Americans. Because like it or not, legal or not, the IRS is here and won’t go away without an act of Congress.
Let’s do away with the IRS and Income Tax all together. A flat Federal Sales Tax would insure that they get their pound of flesh.
Then what is the incentive to become a homeowner? A flat federal sales tax removes the “tax incentives” that help the economy grow…
The only problem I see with a federal sales tax is that even if they do abolish the income tax, it won’t be long before the urge for money to waste grows so strong in congress that we have BOTH taxes.
Flatten out the income tax IMO. 15%,20%,25% brackets; no exemptions, deductions, loopholes or anything else.
To Cap – before instituting the sales tax, we must insist that the 16th amendment that authorizes income tax is repealed.
To exjarhead – it’s a sad statement that the tax code dictates our life decisions. We shouldn’t have to make our decision to buy or rent based on income taxes.
Amen, Brother! I like it!!!
How about not worrying about Congressional urges to overspend and have an amendment that with each spending bill, Congress must specify the section of the Constitution that permits the expenditure?
Excellent article. Thanks for keeping the public informed.
Excellent article. Thanks for keeping the public informed.
Having been through an audit for the two years in which my Wife and I earned practically nothing in a failed franchise business, and having to pay exhorbitant tax liabilities following the audit (which encompassed two years), I can tell you that the tax man is not your friend. If you are called upon for an audit, you need to lawyer up and get someone on your side who can talk to these crooks in the same way they talk to you. After my experience, I’ve come to think that Steve Forbes was right on with his flat tax proposal when he was running for President.
Two words when the tax man visits: Be Afraid.
As I understand it, a national sales tax or consumption tax would force those in the underground economy to start contributing. Big time drug dealers for instance who don’t pay taxes would have to do so when buying a Rolls Royce or other expensive items. Is this thinking correct?
The previous posts saying that the current tax department needs to go away first are correct. We could easily wind up paying both kinds of tax
where the hell are the six figure incomes in the scheme of things? the middle class is bleeding. foreclosures, taxes, insurance premiums, auto and home, health care, seniors eating cat food ao they can pay for meds. we,re on a roller coaster to hell!!!!
What do six figure incomes have to do with anything? Most of what you mention are the result of personal choices.
Foreclosures – if you buy more house than you can afford, you’re likely to default.
Insurance premiums – home has a lot to do with where you choose to live; auto has a lot to do with how you drive
Seniors eating cat food so they can pay for meds is a myth.
Health care, you may have a point – it’s largely driven by regulation and lawsuits.
And taxes I assume are your solution – “Tax the rich,” right?
The middle class can do just fine if they can be content to live within their means. You don’t really need a new construction $500,000 house, a new car every other year, the biggest flat screen tv, and every other latest and greatest gadget that comes out.
The Federal Tax Law went into effect on 10/2/1913 – the tax was 1%. We have come a long way in the past 94 years and I can’t say that it has been for the good – I think it is more for the greed. It would also help if those that were spending our tax dollars, if they really are necessary, were more accountable and had a better ability to spend it wisely.
How about not worrying about Congressional urges to overspend or to be greedy and have a Constitutional amendment that with each spending bill, Congress must specify the section of the Constitution that permits the expenditure?
“But, let’s face it. The IRS doesn’t mind if people are a little nervous.” That is the type statements that infuriate me. The government has a open check book and send their henchmen to collect.
NED, please eat s–t !!!!. Six figure incomes are primarily the ones driving high price cars, undertaking the high ticket house….after all they have to keep up with the “Blue Bloods”. The so called “middle class”, is exactly that, in the middle of this sinking mud pile. The “Middle Class” are the ones working, without having that grand ol’ bonus buy out when one calls it quit. The politicians in this country, especially those in Congress, write their own ticket, without any accountabilities. The senior section paid their dues and now are left out in the cold, because our elected officials stole our monies from the Soc. Sec Fund , without one request to do so from those directly involved….the soc sec members. Now we are told to suck up and take cuts in our meager monthly benefits. If these thieves didn’t attack the Soc Sec Fund, We wouldn’t be in this hell hole now.
“But, let’s face it. The IRS doesn’t mind if people are a little nervous.” That’s because people who work for the IRS are sick lowlifes who don’t want to take a job in the real world where people aren’t forced to pay by violence or the threat of same.
I think if you plan to use social security in your retirement years you should pay in, but if you don’t want to use it (and i’m willing to take that chance) then you shouldn’t have to pay into it now. lord knows by the time i get to be 65 or 70, there will be no such thing as retirement. i’ll probably be working until the day i die.
Fed UP – no thanks, I had breakfast.
Aren’t those that make the money entitled to spend the money? Those that can afford it are the ones that should buy high price cars and high ticket houses.
I’m not one of them. I make less than $100,000 and I have a nice 30 year old 4 bedroom in the Northeast, 2 well-running cars (model years 1997 and 2000), my kids were in private school, now homeschooled, I’m putting away 6% gross into my 401k and I give my tithe and offering to my church (10%+ of gross income).
What I don’t have is a plasma tv, cable or satellite, playstation (or any such nonsense); we eat at home, not out 5 times a week and we take modest vacations. I make choices about how to spend what I have — I take care of the necessities and I do without the luxuries I can’t afford.
I take it you’re collecting social security? I think social security was a bad idea because it gives a false sense of security. It makes people think that’s all they’ll need to retire so they don’t prepare properly. You say that it’s the congress that’s messed things up and I agree with that. So why the hostility toward those who are better off? Their success has nothing to do with your dilemma.
The 16th amendment did not create any taxes that didn’t exist before it was supposedly ratified…at least that what the supreme court said a long time ago. The IRS just over rules the constitution as Bush said, it’s just a GD piece of paper. Then the same elite banker that own the federal reserve started buying up the courts and all of a sudden we have to pay taxes that go right into their coffers. These are the people that own the presses that print the money…yeah…that’s right they create wealth out of thin air to loan back to the USA and then take your precious income tax as interest on the money the printed…talk about the ultimate scam!!! We need to abolish the federal reserve system and as the constitution (google this, most americans have no idea it even exists or what it is any more) states the US should issue a currency backed by GOLD. Name one nation that had a fiat currency that survived…hint…there are NONE!
People pay taxes because they’ve been conditioned too, just like we’ve been conditioned to get vaccinated so we can rot our kids brains w/ Mercury and shoot our young girls full of live cancer viruses (HPV vaccine). If you don’t pay your taxes the Federal Reserve’s shake down crews come and empty your pockets at gun point. This is no different than a mob shake down.
NONE, ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH of the income tax you pay goes to support any of our infastructure. It all goes to the private, run for profit federal reserve as interest on the money they’ve printed and loaned back to the USA.
You need to check out the move America: freedom to facism, Ron Paul, and Grace Commission Report…
As I’ve heard Dave Ramsey explain it, the tax code shouldn’t influence whether you buy or rent. It doesn’t make sense financially to pay the bank $10,000. in interest so that you can save $2,500. in taxes. The “mortgage tax deduction” benefits banks more than taxpayers. It should be incentive enough for people to buy homes that they are putting their money into something that will hold and hopefully appreciate in value, not to mention the quality of life and community.
If you buy a house within your means, your annual interest may even be less than the standard deduction, so the income tax code is irrelevant. Dave says budget, live within your means, pay off your mortgage, and if you still want the deduction, donate the same amout to a church or charity.
Well said Ned.
I like how you group people with six-figure salaries into the filthy rich group. Let me tell you this… having a six figure income was a choice. A lot of education, a lot of hard work.
The unfortunate thing is that too many people decide to take the easy road but want everything that some of us have earned.
Also, just because someone has a six figure income doesn’t mean that they are rich. Oh, I guess I could be if I’d quit supporting the various groups “I choose to” or if I didn’t put my kinds through school, etc. etc. etc. As far as houses and cars. Try $175,000 home, a 2004 F-150 and 2001 Windstar. Those sure are big toys, aren’t they.
I got my annual Soc Sec benefits mailing last week. It said that I would have something like $1500/mo if I retire at 65…….like there will be any money left in the pool in 25 years.
Well said.
Many complain, but few stand up. The IRS is an obnoxious, over bearing bulling corporation that has no constitutional authority. It is the same as the mafia demanding protection money from merchants. It is protected by congressional prostitutes who have sold themselves to the Federal Reserve Cartel for fame and fortune.
Our congress, our judges and our law enforcement agences have all sold themselves to the bankers and all the american people can bring themselves to do is quip about how it should be. If you allow yourself to be intimidated by a bully because you are afraid of losing your freedom or God forbide your “STUFF” then you have become a slave to the bully and you have already lost your “STUFF.” It’s just a matter of time until the bully comes around to collect. He may take it all at once of small portions over time, but make no mistake about it, he will eventually have it all. And you will be left to ponder once again “what if.” What if – I had stood firm the first time?
What if – I had demanded to be treated with respect and questioned the IRS’s Authority?
What if – I had read the constitution?
what if – I had elected the right guy?
What if – I knew more about the origin of the Federal Reserve?
What if i was a true American and not afraid of my government?
I have read many of the same books and articles detailing how the IRS is illegally robbing America of its monies; how the income tax initially came about and how it is perpetuated; how we can “opt out” and many other things. The truth is – we’re stuck. This is the system we have, we want what the government is paying for with these monies and because of these factors we must now learn to live within the system we’ve created. The other option is to bring a force of millions to bear on the government to make Congress pay for only those things the Constitution calls for – the safety and well-being of the nation as a whole, interstate commerce and a federal judiciary (I may be missing a couple of things). The rest was supposed to be handled by the states.
As long as we want the feds to pay for all this stuff we should have either a flat income tax (why take a higher percentage just because I make more) or a consumption tax – not both. There should be no deductions. It’s been proven that people do not donate to charities because they want the tax deduction and the mortgage interest deduction is not worth buying a house for (it’s usually cheaper to rent than buy).
So, which do you want – the current spending scheme fixed or the spending scheme laid out 200+ years ago? Or something else? Remember you have to pay to have.
You’re right lastbat. We have become soft and lazy and too many of us want “free” benefits from the feds. Look at the 44% who think “free” healthcare is a great idea.
I keep voting for candidates who claim to share my values, but way too many Americans don’t bother to vote at all. So long as the gifts keep coming from Uncle Sam most folks don’t seem to care.
Lastbat, apparently there are a few more books that you must read. The IRS is a bulldog on the congressional prostitutes leash. The income tax was not implemented to pay the nations bills or grow or economy. Our economy was doing just fine and growing at three to four times the current rate.
The imcome tax was iniated by greedy bankers to steal the wealth from our economy. The congress went along because it gave them the power they craved.
In case you haven’t noticed the IRS is starting to lose tax evasion court cases because the public is more aware of the government’s duplicity.
So, to answer your question, I prefer the tax scheme set up 200+ years ago. Once you become more informed I think you will agree with me. You can start by visiting the website, “the tax that never was.com”
vexed – already been there. I’ve read “The Government Mafia” and most of his other books (forget the author’s name at the moment). I’ve seen the sites. I’m not saying the system we have now is great. What I’m saying is that it is the system we have and we as a nation need to decide if we want to change it. If the feds aren’t paying for it then somebody has to. And no, not all the money is going straight to the federal reserve.
If you are wondering if I would prefer a less involved federal government the answer is “yes”. I think between the states and fairly regulated (by “fairly” I mean in the concept of fairness and equity) private industry can handle this stuff. I believe elected officials should have to travel coach, be paid the median wage of the district they represent, take no gifts, and in general be forced to work for the good of the country instead of their own pocket. I believe the tax base that existed prior the 1940’s was adequate and could be made to work again. But I do not have the money to fight a tax evasion case so will pay my taxes until such a time as the nation wises up and changes the system. Put a national referendum on my ballot to alter the tax system to something that makes sense and the thing will smoke with the speed I vote yes and mail it in. Until then, I pay my money to the man and stay out of legal trouble I can’t afford – like most Americans. Because like it or not, legal or not, the IRS is here and won’t go away without an act of Congress.