there are comments and notes stating that the vehicles themselves were shot at. if so, then they have the right to defend themselves. question is whom do you shoot at? we pretend sometimes to blind one eye to the concept that this is a war zone. if someone shoots, we shoot back and ask questions afterwards. protect yourself, is that not what the police do? is that not the same for an individual whom is protecting himself? um…where do we draw the line? what about other witnesses?
The employees of Blackwater are different than you and me. They love this stuff and THANK GOD there are people willing to take on this kind of work. The guys that were killed went into it knowing that was a possibility. Their families should accept their fate. Money won’t bring them back.
Blackwater is not the U.S. military. They are a for-profit company and they work in Iraq for money. Not patriotism. Not democracy. Not world peace. Money.
So, if they’ve negligently killed innocent civilians (we don’t yet know whether they were innocent or not, but that’s the function of our courts to determine), why shouldn’t they suffer a financial penalty? Iraqi civilians didn’t willingly place themselves in a war zone; it’s their home.
If there was a civil disturbance in any of our hometowns and Blackwater came in and shot our sons and daughters, I suspect that many of us would seek civil justice, as well. Are Iraquis not human? Do they not bleed? Can’t we find some compassion?
by eliminating Blackwater, the “pro-pull out & force Iraq in to civil war & chaos people” have a new strategy-hamstring the war in every way possible including leaving our diplomats stuck in protected compounds or subject our troops to escourting diplomats instead of rooting out hostiles.
I’d like to call those who favor our exit as anti war peacenicks but in reality they’re nothing but greedy bastards drooling at the thought of new weapons sales to Sunni & Shia alike & eventually buying up Iraqi oil assets from the widows & orphans of dead Iraqi men.
You are SOOOOOO off the mark, Mr. I’ve Got a Plan and I’m Stickin To It –
If I am greedy, then maybe JUST MAYBE its because I think our kids deserve health care insurance – and to be told there isn’t enough money to go around and cover all the bases – well, then, isn’t that just a little too ingenuous.
Taken a look at our exchange rate lately, Senor Loser? I wonder why the dollar has sunk to all time lows against most of the World – perhaps that’s because the World thinks our domestic fiscal policies suck @ss? Actually, I know why and it’s because every time we try to jump start the economy with a Jolt From The Fed, our Tbills earn less, making our bonds less attractive to other countries.
Why don’t we just BURN our currency, Herr Schmarty Pants? At least we’d stay warm this winter. It certainly won’t be Oil from Iraq doing the job.
Weapons of Mass Destruction. GWB’s Tawana Brawley.
Sounds like the majority of comments support Blackwater. Spike, EVERYBODY works for money and that’s OK. Not everybody has an altruistic motive and that’s OK too. The simple fact is that when you live in lawless country in conflict you should use a little common sense and steer clear of security people with guns, particularly when their own people are trying to kill Americans. Blackwater’s record of never “losing” anyone under its’ protection was earned by not giving potential enemies the chance to kill. The most sympathy they should get is an “oops….sorry”. It’s becoming increasingly apparent most Iraqi’s are content to have somebody else look out for them. They haven’t done much to step up to the plate and go after their own terrorists. They keep plodding along lettins our soldiers spill their blood. And let’s hear it for Victor Warren, an Amercian (?) who lives in America and who filed the suit against his own countrymen. There are plenty of causes right under you nose in America Warren. The Doobie Brothers got it right…Blackwater keep on rollin’
I’m an insurance broker and I work for money. If I’m negligent in my services and I cause injury to another party, I’ll be held financially liable.
Why should Blackwater be treated any differently?
If there are military needs that are important to our national interest, then the U.S. government should provide the appropriate number of troops to meet those needs. Farming out this most important job to those who are accountable neither to our military justice system nor our civil courts is an abomination to everything that this country stands for.
Last I heard, outsourcing WAS the new American way – whether it’s to a call center in India, software in Cork, or toys to China.
Apparently we as a nation fall into the same trap as all those nasty litiguous folks we constantly read about here – it’s not MY problem, it’s the OTHER guy. All we know how to do is the service / financial sector and if the government thought it could get a better deal by paying another country to go fight for us, what would stop them?
Excuse me, Smitty but are the following anti war activists greedy bastards?
Iraqi Vets Against the War?
The Grannies for Peace?
Dennis Kucinich?
The Quakers?
Gold Star Families for Peace?
the list goes on an on.
Spike: a very important distinction is that you don’t work in the middle of an armed conflict aka war. Who said anything about being negligent. Blackwater is being diligent. It does what Amercian troops can’t because it’s independent. It doesn’t have to worry about “rules of engagement” and “no-fire zones”. It deals in REALITY and does what a situation calls for.
Dave – you are missing something, as are some of the other writers.
We all agree that Blackwater is NOT part of our army. They are private contractors following the contract with our government. Does their role effectively make them mercenaries? What about assassins? Historically, both types operated under contract to their employers, too.
The operative word is contractor. There is a contract which may state “do anything and everything you need to do so as to safeguard American personnel performing any function, and taking whatever action you deem necessary”.
That makes the US Government the GC and Blackwater the sub. I guess the Feds should have called it Operation Wrap Up. The GC is and should be responsible for the actions of the sub – it cannot hide behind the chinese wall of the contract.
Blackwater is a mercenary corps – as are all the security firms in Iraq. It takes mercenaries to get this type of job done. Their contract gives them immunity from prosecution. They used this immunity when they were sued by family members of soldiers who died when a helicopter flown by Blackwater crashed.
They’re mercs. This is war. As an earlier poster wrote – people die in war and when you are being fired upon you return fire first and ask questions later.
And Spike – some of us just don’t want to waste anymore of anybody’s lives over there. The only people who can solve this are the Iraqi’s themselves. We just get in the way. If it takes a civil war then let ’em have it. Hell even America had a civil war. They’re not uncommon and not necessarily bad. If we were using honest language we’d note that Iraq is already in a civil war, chaos does reign and the longer America stays there the longer conditions will remain the same.
And what happens when a Blackwater employee gets in an argument with a U.S. soldier and shoots and kills that soldier? Don’t think it can’t happen. Relations between civilian mercenaries and soldiers have been extremely tense for several years now. What will we think about immunity when we have a dead American soldier?
In the meantime, think about this father: Haythem could only recognize his oldest boy from his tall and slim physique as well as what was left of his shoes. His son’s head had been blown away, his body charred beyond recognition. His wife of more than 20 years was torn apart.
Ahmed and his mother, Mahassen, were killed in the September 16 shootings in Baghdad. “Only part of her neck and jaw remained,” Haythem told CNN. The rest of her was covered by a body bag.
Choking back tears, he said, “Killing them was not enough, blowing up their skulls, they burned them and disfigured them.”
Haythem’s wife, Mahassen, and his 20-year-old son, Ahmed, were among the 17 Iraqi civilians killed and 27 others wounded in a hail of gunfire September 16 in Baghdad.
This is what Blackwater did. Just imagine that this was your son and your wife.
It’s a breeding ground for ‘privatization’ and PROFIT. THAT’S what it’s all about at this point.
We need to get out while we have some military personnel and a little dignity left. We tried to help their sorry butts. Didn’t work.
We’re sending our troops over there to die and throwing billions into a losing battle. Time to move on.
I want to know who is at the top of the money food chain for Blackwater. They’re living in a mansion – probably worth more then Bill Gates, but they probably draw their money from a subsidiary into an offshore account protected by some tax law that gives them the freedom to wine and dine their friends on blood money. American and Iraqi blood money.
The bottom line of this war has become the bottom dollar.
Orlando: your analogy of an Amercian businesess contract is off point. We aren’t in America, there is a war going on, and it isn’t a business transaction governed by negligence/liability. What I find most insulting is that it wasn’t the Iraqi’s who filed the suit, it was one of our own. I don’t see anybody filing suit against Al Qaeda for the thousands of innocent Iraqi’s that were murdered on purpose by cowardly suicide bombers. You have noticed that Al Qaeda doesn’t screw with Blackwater. There’s a reason. It knows Blackwater isn’t hamstrung by having to “play nice” even when dealing with animals like terrorists.
Someone once wrote a book entitled “War is a Racket.” In it, the author detailed how war is promoted by various special interest groups to fatten their bank accounts while screaming in people’s faces that they’re not “patriotic” if they don’t “support the war.” Incidentally, Joseph Goebbels of Nazi fame had a memorable quote about how easy it is to get people to support war.
And what lily-livered, yellow-bellied coward who never saw a day of fighting in his life wrote the book? What miserable excuse for a man wrote this book from his ivory tower? What malcontent who today would be beaten into submission by the storm troopers for writing such treasonous thoughts wrote the boook? What…well you get the idea. His name was Smedley Butler.
Oh, did I mention that this was USMC Colonel Smedley Butler, the only Marine who won the Medal of Honor twice?
Why are you so quick to believe Iraqi reports of the incident? Is it their history of honesty and integrity? Can you for one second give your fellow Countrymen the benefit of the doubt? How about at least waiting for the conclusion of the investigation? Your hate America first attitude is despicable.
I don’t believe Iraqi reports of the incident. But, I do believe that the American judicial system is a fairly good method for determining just what happened.
I do find it disheartening that there are those who would give no consideration whatsoever to the Iraqi victims, automatically assume that they are lying (or that their lives don’t matter to us) and believe whatever “truth” Blackwater’s public relations advisors may concoct.
It’s not that we don’t sympathize with the civilians killed – I think we all do on some level. The fact of the matter is they were caught in a firefight and died. The people who pulled the trigger have immunity from prosecution granted to them by the American government (which currently holds more power in Iraq than the Iraqi government). If you don’t like that then write your congressman to have their contract altered. It’s not about the horrors of war – it’s about a contract. And they were given those terms for just these reasons – because in a war zone you don’t always have the luxury of figuring out who’s shooting who and innocents will die.
Oh, and for those wondering who runs Blackwater, like most of these operations it’s a former Special Forces officer – this time a Navy SEAL. Most of the operatives are former special ops from one country or another.
OK Radar O’Really…Why should our federal government have to pay for our personal health insurance? Maybe people in the USA need to strive and work for things like “bennies”. Our money is worth nothing because of all the bleeding heart plans that our taxes are paying for. Also for the lack of industry, and everything we buy is foreign. Now there is also out-sourcing of jobs that should be kept here at home…What about about the illegal’s pouring into our country? No, don’t tell me they are doing jobs that nobody else will do..make some of the generational well fair people get out and work!!!
Actually LLH you need to read the Grace Commission report to president reagan. Not one penny of the money you pay in federal income tax goes to anything besides the pockets of the owners of the for privately run for profit federal reserve. Don’t believe me, check it out.
There is no actual war, just a criminal occupation. Can anyone tell me why we are actually in Iraq or Afghanistan? What was the reason that was given again? Oh, that’s right, every thing that was said was a LIE. Being there does nothing to make our country more secure when anyone can bring anything they want across our unsecured borders. The boogey man that are not on the CIA payroll are nothing but shadows and smoke. There is no war on terror, just on our personal freedoms. America is being destroyed by design. We’ll be liked w/ Canada and Mexico living under UN law unless we can wake up the people of the US. As Bush said, the constituion “is just GD piece of paper”. People need to realize there is no left vs right. The global elite own all the horses in the races. Hillary will be elected by hook or crook. Just like our last 15 presidents she just went to the latest bilderberg group meeting in Istanbul (sp?), Turkey to get the nod and her marching orders with Texas Governor Rick Perry.
The Center for Constitutional Rights brought the suit on behalf of 3 families and 1 survivor. Isn’t that interesting. Somebody obviously stirred the political pot to make that happen. And to add injury to insult, what business does an American organization that is supposed to deal with Americans and OUR constitution have getting involved in this? Somebody was quick on the trigger(no pun) to file a lawsuit before the investigation is even complete. But that’s becoming the way of many misguided Americans…….”ready, fire, aim”.
There’s a reason nobody under Blackwater’s protection has been lost. That’s because they do it right. Shoot first…….survive. This isn’t a paintball competetion. People in this country want to kill us any way they can. Blackwater doesn’t have the luxury to take a “wait and see” approach or give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Do that an you’re the dead one. I’m sure the Black water people didn’t fire on those folks for kicks. As another blogger mentioned, they’re all military, highly disciplined, highly trained. When people get too close to para-military security forces and do something suspicious or stupid, bad things happen. Here’s a question for all the bleeding heart liberals out there. If you were working in Iraq who would you want protecting you?
WAD, we’re in Afghanistan because the government they had in 2001 sponsored the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Our invasion of Afghanistan was the first time I’d been proud to have Bush as president as I felt the measures taken were appropriate and timely. Why we haven’t finished the job is up for grabs.
Why we’re in Iraq is anybody’s guess with reasons varying depending on political views.
Ohioan – I could be classed as a liberal, but if push comes to shove I want somebody at my back who’s going to shoot to kill and shoot faster and better than the other guy. Give me Blackwater.
How many of you Bush bashers and America haters and paranoid goofballs have ever been to Iraq or personally know people who have been there and know what’s going on? I have friends and family in Iraq and Afganistan and I’ll take their word over any turd brained liberal reporter or lefty newspaper.
Those who have been overwhelmingly (but not exclusively) report progress towards the kind of life we are enjoying in the USA.
Guess what? I am a Bush Basher. That does NOT make me an America Hater. WTF do I care what the ‘quality of life’ is over there at this point? All I care about is our troops are dying and our country is going bankrupt over people who have no desire to change anything, help themselves, or even want us there. There were in the shape they’re in 100 years ago and they’ll be in the shape they’re in 100 years from now. And Iran wasn’t even a country 35 years ago, so a war over a made up country just seems stupid to me.
And if Blackwater is so great, why aren’t they here fighting the drug and gang wars?
But as long as there is a dollar to be made, I guess we’ll stay in Iraq and possibly even Iran. While Al Quida laughs at us from Afghanistan.
Cometalia, I am a Bush basher, but don’t hate America. I love America. I just don’t think America is right for everyone. I know people who have been to Iraq. Some say they see tons of progress and wish more people knew about it and some say they wish we never invaded. I read a blog that purports to be from an Iraqi teenager (bagdad burning) and she wishes we weren’t there. I have an Irani who is a close acquaintence of mine and he thinks it was stupid we invaded a country in that region because we don’t understand the culture or the mind-set. The fact is there are 6.5 billion people in this world and 6.5 billion different opinions on the events in Iraq. Progress or no we invaded another country on a “first-strike” and have not been able to stabilize in 4.5 years. It’s not our country and we need to leave. Sooner rather than later. Let the UN, who is good at nation building, take over. We suck at nation-building, always have, and shouldn’t be trying.
Thank you Dawn and lastbat for proving my point. The mainstream media say there’s no hope in Iraq so you automatically believe it. As I said before, I base my opinions on what my friends and family tell me about their experiences in the Middle East. You have every right to your opinions and to express them in any forum you choose, but I feel very sorry for all pessimistic liberal anti-Bush anti-Americans.
Cometalia, are you illiterate? Dawn and I both state unequivocally we are not anti-America. We just don’t like Bush. And you must not have read my post wherein I point out that I listen to those people I know who have been to Iraq. Take the blinders off and think for once in your life. It’s past time to let the Iraqi people decide for themselves if they want us there. They are not children. They are the inheritors of a culture thousands of years older than our own. They know what they want and we should not force our ways upon them.
Your friends’ and family’s opinions count for nothing unless they are Iraqi citizens. Just as my friends’ opinions count for nothing. Not in the grand scheme of things. Their opinions are based on visiting Iraq, not on living there with the firm knowledge they will be there until they die. Even a soldier’s opinion counts for nothing when weighed against an Iraqi citizen’s.
And anti-Bush equals anti-America no more than being anti-Clinton meant being anti-America back in the day. Not respecting the man does not equal not resepcting the office. Not supporting the mission does not equal not supporting the troops. There is a separation between these things that mature people can recognize. We don’t have to fight “them” over there. “They” will come here regardless of where we do our fighting. There are any number of other sound bites I could tear down, but I hope you get the idea.
Ah lastbat, Comelita (or whatever that name is) is a ‘tard with blinders on. She knows nothing just like she said we know nothing. She hears things from other people and forms opinions just like we do. The only difference is that she is “right” because it HER opinion and ANYTHING that goes against HER opinion is flat out wrong. One might and well expect a hand job from the Venus de Milo instead of her listening to rational, well-thought out conversations and intellectual debates. Best to ignore these types of people, blinders and ear-muffs (I call them Helen Keller types).
What Cometalia doesn’t understand is that I don’t give a flying….. well, you know…. about Iraq. (They don’t care about us, either.) I’m not entirely sure anybody does anymore. This has never been about the well being of the Iraqi people. It was about Al Quida (supposedly), then after we found out that was bull, they decided that the cause was really democracy. GMAFB.
The ONLY thing I care about is the fact that our troops are being killed and our country is bankrupt while friends of “I’m on a mission from God to spread Christianity” are making millions.
We have learned from history that messing around in the Mid East is ONLY a good idea for profiteers. Can’t say the Bush’s don’t know how to make a buck for themselves.
Of course, after we’re at war with Iran, Syria, Russia, and the other countries that he’s determined to aggravate, he won’t even have to write a book to make a few more millions.
Of course, America will be a third world nation, but since when have Bush lovers ever cared about that?
there are comments and notes stating that the vehicles themselves were shot at. if so, then they have the right to defend themselves. question is whom do you shoot at? we pretend sometimes to blind one eye to the concept that this is a war zone. if someone shoots, we shoot back and ask questions afterwards. protect yourself, is that not what the police do? is that not the same for an individual whom is protecting himself? um…where do we draw the line? what about other witnesses?
What about the families of the Blackwater employees that were strung from that bridge in Fallujah? Who’s going to make them whole? This SUCKS!
The employees of Blackwater are different than you and me. They love this stuff and THANK GOD there are people willing to take on this kind of work. The guys that were killed went into it knowing that was a possibility. Their families should accept their fate. Money won’t bring them back.
Ambulance chasers! Since when did lawsuits come out of a war zone?! UGH!!
Blackwater is not the U.S. military. They are a for-profit company and they work in Iraq for money. Not patriotism. Not democracy. Not world peace. Money.
So, if they’ve negligently killed innocent civilians (we don’t yet know whether they were innocent or not, but that’s the function of our courts to determine), why shouldn’t they suffer a financial penalty? Iraqi civilians didn’t willingly place themselves in a war zone; it’s their home.
If there was a civil disturbance in any of our hometowns and Blackwater came in and shot our sons and daughters, I suspect that many of us would seek civil justice, as well. Are Iraquis not human? Do they not bleed? Can’t we find some compassion?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100302646.html
Better hurry and type, Spike. Your Poppa is going to turn off your computer soon!
And just what do you do just for money?
…keep on rolling
Tigris & Euphrates
won’t you keep on shining on me?
Yeah keep on shining your eyes
cause you know everything
everythings gonna be alright
And I aint got no worries
cause the natives are scurryin along.
by eliminating Blackwater, the “pro-pull out & force Iraq in to civil war & chaos people” have a new strategy-hamstring the war in every way possible including leaving our diplomats stuck in protected compounds or subject our troops to escourting diplomats instead of rooting out hostiles.
I’d like to call those who favor our exit as anti war peacenicks but in reality they’re nothing but greedy bastards drooling at the thought of new weapons sales to Sunni & Shia alike & eventually buying up Iraqi oil assets from the widows & orphans of dead Iraqi men.
You are SOOOOOO off the mark, Mr. I’ve Got a Plan and I’m Stickin To It –
If I am greedy, then maybe JUST MAYBE its because I think our kids deserve health care insurance – and to be told there isn’t enough money to go around and cover all the bases – well, then, isn’t that just a little too ingenuous.
Taken a look at our exchange rate lately, Senor Loser? I wonder why the dollar has sunk to all time lows against most of the World – perhaps that’s because the World thinks our domestic fiscal policies suck @ss? Actually, I know why and it’s because every time we try to jump start the economy with a Jolt From The Fed, our Tbills earn less, making our bonds less attractive to other countries.
Why don’t we just BURN our currency, Herr Schmarty Pants? At least we’d stay warm this winter. It certainly won’t be Oil from Iraq doing the job.
Weapons of Mass Destruction. GWB’s Tawana Brawley.
Go get a turkey and get stuffed.
Sounds like the majority of comments support Blackwater. Spike, EVERYBODY works for money and that’s OK. Not everybody has an altruistic motive and that’s OK too. The simple fact is that when you live in lawless country in conflict you should use a little common sense and steer clear of security people with guns, particularly when their own people are trying to kill Americans. Blackwater’s record of never “losing” anyone under its’ protection was earned by not giving potential enemies the chance to kill. The most sympathy they should get is an “oops….sorry”. It’s becoming increasingly apparent most Iraqi’s are content to have somebody else look out for them. They haven’t done much to step up to the plate and go after their own terrorists. They keep plodding along lettins our soldiers spill their blood. And let’s hear it for Victor Warren, an Amercian (?) who lives in America and who filed the suit against his own countrymen. There are plenty of causes right under you nose in America Warren. The Doobie Brothers got it right…Blackwater keep on rollin’
I’m an insurance broker and I work for money. If I’m negligent in my services and I cause injury to another party, I’ll be held financially liable.
Why should Blackwater be treated any differently?
If there are military needs that are important to our national interest, then the U.S. government should provide the appropriate number of troops to meet those needs. Farming out this most important job to those who are accountable neither to our military justice system nor our civil courts is an abomination to everything that this country stands for.
Say Spike – wake up the coffee’s ready.
Last I heard, outsourcing WAS the new American way – whether it’s to a call center in India, software in Cork, or toys to China.
Apparently we as a nation fall into the same trap as all those nasty litiguous folks we constantly read about here – it’s not MY problem, it’s the OTHER guy. All we know how to do is the service / financial sector and if the government thought it could get a better deal by paying another country to go fight for us, what would stop them?
Excuse me, Smitty but are the following anti war activists greedy bastards?
Iraqi Vets Against the War?
The Grannies for Peace?
Dennis Kucinich?
The Quakers?
Gold Star Families for Peace?
the list goes on an on.
Spike: a very important distinction is that you don’t work in the middle of an armed conflict aka war. Who said anything about being negligent. Blackwater is being diligent. It does what Amercian troops can’t because it’s independent. It doesn’t have to worry about “rules of engagement” and “no-fire zones”. It deals in REALITY and does what a situation calls for.
Dave – you are missing something, as are some of the other writers.
We all agree that Blackwater is NOT part of our army. They are private contractors following the contract with our government. Does their role effectively make them mercenaries? What about assassins? Historically, both types operated under contract to their employers, too.
The operative word is contractor. There is a contract which may state “do anything and everything you need to do so as to safeguard American personnel performing any function, and taking whatever action you deem necessary”.
That makes the US Government the GC and Blackwater the sub. I guess the Feds should have called it Operation Wrap Up. The GC is and should be responsible for the actions of the sub – it cannot hide behind the chinese wall of the contract.
Blackwater is a mercenary corps – as are all the security firms in Iraq. It takes mercenaries to get this type of job done. Their contract gives them immunity from prosecution. They used this immunity when they were sued by family members of soldiers who died when a helicopter flown by Blackwater crashed.
They’re mercs. This is war. As an earlier poster wrote – people die in war and when you are being fired upon you return fire first and ask questions later.
And Spike – some of us just don’t want to waste anymore of anybody’s lives over there. The only people who can solve this are the Iraqi’s themselves. We just get in the way. If it takes a civil war then let ’em have it. Hell even America had a civil war. They’re not uncommon and not necessarily bad. If we were using honest language we’d note that Iraq is already in a civil war, chaos does reign and the longer America stays there the longer conditions will remain the same.
Excellent points lastbat and Orlando. I hope that these bogus lawsuits are tossed from the Courts.
And what happens when a Blackwater employee gets in an argument with a U.S. soldier and shoots and kills that soldier? Don’t think it can’t happen. Relations between civilian mercenaries and soldiers have been extremely tense for several years now. What will we think about immunity when we have a dead American soldier?
In the meantime, think about this father: Haythem could only recognize his oldest boy from his tall and slim physique as well as what was left of his shoes. His son’s head had been blown away, his body charred beyond recognition. His wife of more than 20 years was torn apart.
Ahmed and his mother, Mahassen, were killed in the September 16 shootings in Baghdad. “Only part of her neck and jaw remained,” Haythem told CNN. The rest of her was covered by a body bag.
Choking back tears, he said, “Killing them was not enough, blowing up their skulls, they burned them and disfigured them.”
Haythem’s wife, Mahassen, and his 20-year-old son, Ahmed, were among the 17 Iraqi civilians killed and 27 others wounded in a hail of gunfire September 16 in Baghdad.
This is what Blackwater did. Just imagine that this was your son and your wife.
It’s a breeding ground for ‘privatization’ and PROFIT. THAT’S what it’s all about at this point.
We need to get out while we have some military personnel and a little dignity left. We tried to help their sorry butts. Didn’t work.
We’re sending our troops over there to die and throwing billions into a losing battle. Time to move on.
I want to know who is at the top of the money food chain for Blackwater. They’re living in a mansion – probably worth more then Bill Gates, but they probably draw their money from a subsidiary into an offshore account protected by some tax law that gives them the freedom to wine and dine their friends on blood money. American and Iraqi blood money.
The bottom line of this war has become the bottom dollar.
Orlando: your analogy of an Amercian businesess contract is off point. We aren’t in America, there is a war going on, and it isn’t a business transaction governed by negligence/liability. What I find most insulting is that it wasn’t the Iraqi’s who filed the suit, it was one of our own. I don’t see anybody filing suit against Al Qaeda for the thousands of innocent Iraqi’s that were murdered on purpose by cowardly suicide bombers. You have noticed that Al Qaeda doesn’t screw with Blackwater. There’s a reason. It knows Blackwater isn’t hamstrung by having to “play nice” even when dealing with animals like terrorists.
Someone once wrote a book entitled “War is a Racket.” In it, the author detailed how war is promoted by various special interest groups to fatten their bank accounts while screaming in people’s faces that they’re not “patriotic” if they don’t “support the war.” Incidentally, Joseph Goebbels of Nazi fame had a memorable quote about how easy it is to get people to support war.
And what lily-livered, yellow-bellied coward who never saw a day of fighting in his life wrote the book? What miserable excuse for a man wrote this book from his ivory tower? What malcontent who today would be beaten into submission by the storm troopers for writing such treasonous thoughts wrote the boook? What…well you get the idea. His name was Smedley Butler.
Oh, did I mention that this was USMC Colonel Smedley Butler, the only Marine who won the Medal of Honor twice?
Why are you so quick to believe Iraqi reports of the incident? Is it their history of honesty and integrity? Can you for one second give your fellow Countrymen the benefit of the doubt? How about at least waiting for the conclusion of the investigation? Your hate America first attitude is despicable.
I don’t believe Iraqi reports of the incident. But, I do believe that the American judicial system is a fairly good method for determining just what happened.
I do find it disheartening that there are those who would give no consideration whatsoever to the Iraqi victims, automatically assume that they are lying (or that their lives don’t matter to us) and believe whatever “truth” Blackwater’s public relations advisors may concoct.
Move along, folks, nothing to see here.
It’s not that we don’t sympathize with the civilians killed – I think we all do on some level. The fact of the matter is they were caught in a firefight and died. The people who pulled the trigger have immunity from prosecution granted to them by the American government (which currently holds more power in Iraq than the Iraqi government). If you don’t like that then write your congressman to have their contract altered. It’s not about the horrors of war – it’s about a contract. And they were given those terms for just these reasons – because in a war zone you don’t always have the luxury of figuring out who’s shooting who and innocents will die.
Oh, and for those wondering who runs Blackwater, like most of these operations it’s a former Special Forces officer – this time a Navy SEAL. Most of the operatives are former special ops from one country or another.
OK Radar O’Really…Why should our federal government have to pay for our personal health insurance? Maybe people in the USA need to strive and work for things like “bennies”. Our money is worth nothing because of all the bleeding heart plans that our taxes are paying for. Also for the lack of industry, and everything we buy is foreign. Now there is also out-sourcing of jobs that should be kept here at home…What about about the illegal’s pouring into our country? No, don’t tell me they are doing jobs that nobody else will do..make some of the generational well fair people get out and work!!!
$460,530,068,555. spent on the War as of 7:30 PM est.
You’d go a long way baby….
Actually LLH you need to read the Grace Commission report to president reagan. Not one penny of the money you pay in federal income tax goes to anything besides the pockets of the owners of the for privately run for profit federal reserve. Don’t believe me, check it out.
There is no actual war, just a criminal occupation. Can anyone tell me why we are actually in Iraq or Afghanistan? What was the reason that was given again? Oh, that’s right, every thing that was said was a LIE. Being there does nothing to make our country more secure when anyone can bring anything they want across our unsecured borders. The boogey man that are not on the CIA payroll are nothing but shadows and smoke. There is no war on terror, just on our personal freedoms. America is being destroyed by design. We’ll be liked w/ Canada and Mexico living under UN law unless we can wake up the people of the US. As Bush said, the constituion “is just GD piece of paper”. People need to realize there is no left vs right. The global elite own all the horses in the races. Hillary will be elected by hook or crook. Just like our last 15 presidents she just went to the latest bilderberg group meeting in Istanbul (sp?), Turkey to get the nod and her marching orders with Texas Governor Rick Perry.
The Center for Constitutional Rights brought the suit on behalf of 3 families and 1 survivor. Isn’t that interesting. Somebody obviously stirred the political pot to make that happen. And to add injury to insult, what business does an American organization that is supposed to deal with Americans and OUR constitution have getting involved in this? Somebody was quick on the trigger(no pun) to file a lawsuit before the investigation is even complete. But that’s becoming the way of many misguided Americans…….”ready, fire, aim”.
There’s a reason nobody under Blackwater’s protection has been lost. That’s because they do it right. Shoot first…….survive. This isn’t a paintball competetion. People in this country want to kill us any way they can. Blackwater doesn’t have the luxury to take a “wait and see” approach or give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Do that an you’re the dead one. I’m sure the Black water people didn’t fire on those folks for kicks. As another blogger mentioned, they’re all military, highly disciplined, highly trained. When people get too close to para-military security forces and do something suspicious or stupid, bad things happen. Here’s a question for all the bleeding heart liberals out there. If you were working in Iraq who would you want protecting you?
WAD, we’re in Afghanistan because the government they had in 2001 sponsored the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Our invasion of Afghanistan was the first time I’d been proud to have Bush as president as I felt the measures taken were appropriate and timely. Why we haven’t finished the job is up for grabs.
Why we’re in Iraq is anybody’s guess with reasons varying depending on political views.
Ohioan – I could be classed as a liberal, but if push comes to shove I want somebody at my back who’s going to shoot to kill and shoot faster and better than the other guy. Give me Blackwater.
How many of you Bush bashers and America haters and paranoid goofballs have ever been to Iraq or personally know people who have been there and know what’s going on? I have friends and family in Iraq and Afganistan and I’ll take their word over any turd brained liberal reporter or lefty newspaper.
Those who have been overwhelmingly (but not exclusively) report progress towards the kind of life we are enjoying in the USA.
Guess what? I am a Bush Basher. That does NOT make me an America Hater. WTF do I care what the ‘quality of life’ is over there at this point? All I care about is our troops are dying and our country is going bankrupt over people who have no desire to change anything, help themselves, or even want us there. There were in the shape they’re in 100 years ago and they’ll be in the shape they’re in 100 years from now. And Iran wasn’t even a country 35 years ago, so a war over a made up country just seems stupid to me.
And if Blackwater is so great, why aren’t they here fighting the drug and gang wars?
But as long as there is a dollar to be made, I guess we’ll stay in Iraq and possibly even Iran. While Al Quida laughs at us from Afghanistan.
Cometalia, I am a Bush basher, but don’t hate America. I love America. I just don’t think America is right for everyone. I know people who have been to Iraq. Some say they see tons of progress and wish more people knew about it and some say they wish we never invaded. I read a blog that purports to be from an Iraqi teenager (bagdad burning) and she wishes we weren’t there. I have an Irani who is a close acquaintence of mine and he thinks it was stupid we invaded a country in that region because we don’t understand the culture or the mind-set. The fact is there are 6.5 billion people in this world and 6.5 billion different opinions on the events in Iraq. Progress or no we invaded another country on a “first-strike” and have not been able to stabilize in 4.5 years. It’s not our country and we need to leave. Sooner rather than later. Let the UN, who is good at nation building, take over. We suck at nation-building, always have, and shouldn’t be trying.
Thank you Dawn and lastbat for proving my point. The mainstream media say there’s no hope in Iraq so you automatically believe it. As I said before, I base my opinions on what my friends and family tell me about their experiences in the Middle East. You have every right to your opinions and to express them in any forum you choose, but I feel very sorry for all pessimistic liberal anti-Bush anti-Americans.
Cometalia, are you illiterate? Dawn and I both state unequivocally we are not anti-America. We just don’t like Bush. And you must not have read my post wherein I point out that I listen to those people I know who have been to Iraq. Take the blinders off and think for once in your life. It’s past time to let the Iraqi people decide for themselves if they want us there. They are not children. They are the inheritors of a culture thousands of years older than our own. They know what they want and we should not force our ways upon them.
Your friends’ and family’s opinions count for nothing unless they are Iraqi citizens. Just as my friends’ opinions count for nothing. Not in the grand scheme of things. Their opinions are based on visiting Iraq, not on living there with the firm knowledge they will be there until they die. Even a soldier’s opinion counts for nothing when weighed against an Iraqi citizen’s.
And anti-Bush equals anti-America no more than being anti-Clinton meant being anti-America back in the day. Not respecting the man does not equal not resepcting the office. Not supporting the mission does not equal not supporting the troops. There is a separation between these things that mature people can recognize. We don’t have to fight “them” over there. “They” will come here regardless of where we do our fighting. There are any number of other sound bites I could tear down, but I hope you get the idea.
Ah lastbat, Comelita (or whatever that name is) is a ‘tard with blinders on. She knows nothing just like she said we know nothing. She hears things from other people and forms opinions just like we do. The only difference is that she is “right” because it HER opinion and ANYTHING that goes against HER opinion is flat out wrong. One might and well expect a hand job from the Venus de Milo instead of her listening to rational, well-thought out conversations and intellectual debates. Best to ignore these types of people, blinders and ear-muffs (I call them Helen Keller types).
What Cometalia doesn’t understand is that I don’t give a flying….. well, you know…. about Iraq. (They don’t care about us, either.) I’m not entirely sure anybody does anymore. This has never been about the well being of the Iraqi people. It was about Al Quida (supposedly), then after we found out that was bull, they decided that the cause was really democracy. GMAFB.
The ONLY thing I care about is the fact that our troops are being killed and our country is bankrupt while friends of “I’m on a mission from God to spread Christianity” are making millions.
We have learned from history that messing around in the Mid East is ONLY a good idea for profiteers. Can’t say the Bush’s don’t know how to make a buck for themselves.
Of course, after we’re at war with Iran, Syria, Russia, and the other countries that he’s determined to aggravate, he won’t even have to write a book to make a few more millions.
Of course, America will be a third world nation, but since when have Bush lovers ever cared about that?