We represent Safeco and America First in our office. I’m not a fan, as there is a need for both companies. This just removes competitiveness from the market. Of course there was a dwindling number of auto customers; there’s too many idiots in the soft market.
The further consolidation in the marketplace has a limiting effect on agents. Every time a company acquires another, the threat toward increased production becomes more acute. Survival and growth opportunity for the smaller agent becomes more risky as carriers favor their larger agents by giving them better pay-outs and incentives which places their smaller agents on a tread mill.
I am a Safeco agent who has suffered through too many acquired carriers – a big disruption to our ability to compete. I can’t see how a heavily commercial – and larger commercial at that – insurance carrier like Liberty Mutual is going to benefit the traditional agency. This is NOT good news for our agency.
Thanks, Paula. Maybe you can have a lifeboat full of cash as did Norm Blake for your handiwork, but we agents that you have forced to tread water do not appreciate it – “Watch Paula Win!”
Let’s not overlook the impact on people @ Safeco. In CA, they will not need to keep all of the people and offices for both Golden Eagle and Safeco. Layoff’s are certain at a bad time – I’m sure shareholders will be pleased.
Liberty let Wausau operate, and in many cases, compete directly with other Liberty units. You may see the same thing here. They may consolidate back room functions to lower cost, but continue to let Safeco price, underwrite, and compete as they do now. I think it is too soon to tell.
OK…. who’s next up? See previous posts – lots of rumors. CNA, Harleysville, Selective, Philadelphia, Hanover Group, all have to be wondering. And when is Traveler’s going to buy? (and who!?!?!)
It is apparent that Safeco lives through this ordeal. They will become the strongest member in the West for Lib Mutual’s Regional Operations arm, and will begin to buy business just like Peerless, Indiana, and Ohio Casualty are doing elsewhere. How long can Liberty last – because the numbers (profit) just are not there. This is not good news for the smaller (WEST) regional operations for Lib Mutual. The question now is what happens to the Safeco book in other states? Does Indiana, Ohio Cas, Peerless, pick up the Safeco biz that is EAST of the Mississippi?
I worked for Liberty Mutual for a number of years. I do not see a bright, shiny outcome for agents or Safeco employees. Edmund (Ted) Kelley has been a slash/burn CEO since before he came to Libery Mutual. I have witnessed, first hand, the dismissals, downsizings and terminations. Enjoy Safeco while you can, the ride will likely be over soon.
I’ve been curiously watching QBE, as all reports show that they have about $2 billion available for an addtional acquisition. I’ve heard Selective or Harleysville. Selective would be an outstanding fit for QBE’s regional operations. When will Traveler’s get moving on that CNA acquisition? It is long overdue for the Great Gorilla.
Where will it end. There will be three carriers left by the time this merger frenzy is over. I feel your pain, you younger people who have to deal with this through a career.
Who thinks that there will be too few carriers when this is all said and done? Are you kidding me? I just had to send a report to our HO outlining the competitors in our region, and what they are doing in the marketplace. I stopped at about 20, and didn’t even get down to the small mutuals. Technology, paperless filing, and field underwriting have opened doors to carriers we’ve never even heard of. Good for Liberty, and anybody else that wants to buy up more carriers! There are too many! And if I was working for, or an agent for, a $500 million to $3 billion company, I’d be careful of the bridges that I burn in the market. THAT COMPANY I’VE BEEN RIPPING could be the next OWNER !!?
I was watching the video with Paula telling me how great this is. I can see now just what a great job she did for Safeco, sold it down the river sorry to say. Yes, AFI is a great company, but now instead of two, we will just have one. The founder, Mr. Dent, would probably not be in favor of just a return on investment, it takes a real visionary to bring a company from start-up to greatness with all of the different CEO’s along with way putting their visions into the company. It doesn’t require near as much to sell something that you had no part of…hell, anyone can do that.
Enough said…
LM is acquiring some good books of business and with the ease of doing business quality (even during the transition of Ohio Casualty), the platform will be tremendous and the rates will be overall more competitive for the Agency Markets business of LM, even in this soft market no matter what the company. LM has great personnel to work with.
As a member of the H.K. Dent Society, and owner of a 40+ year old Safeco book, I feel really cheated. At a recent H.K. Dent formal dinner I loked Paula in the face and asked her about the move to sell off all of Safeco’s Seattle-area properties. Microsoft bought the Redmond, WA campus about 5 years ago, then the big Safeco tower was sold to the Univ. of WA just two years ago… I point-blank asked her if she was positioning the company to be sold and was told “absolutely not!”
Yeah, right. Thanks, Paula. So much for the “we’re all family, and we love you guys” attitude.
They didn’t want you to be alarmed and shop your book around – because after all, it isn’t about you but about the shareholders and the value of her golden handshake!
If I’m a SAFECO employee EAST of the Mississippi, I would dust off that resume, and dust it off now! How many Ohio Casualty folks in Indiana and Illinois sat around to wait and see? Liberty is buying business on the street, and continues to gulf other carriers. It is almost amazing to watch them do it.
You think you have it Bad, Alaska only has a hand full of admitted Companies and now this!!!! Safeco was one of easy campanies to use, sell and their customer service was great!
Sorry to read about this!
I’m still not sure how the purchase of Ohio Casualty is going to shake out so now this new buy out has left me wondering, where will it end. We write with Safeco at our agency but they are not competitive and therefore we don’t place a lot of business with them. We also have Colorado Casualty and did have Ohio Casualty until that buyout took place. When we lost Ohio Casualty we lost a great market for dwelling fire and auto’s. I don’t feel that Liberty Mutual buying Safeco is a bad thing I just wonder what and who’s next.
Glad you have had an easy transition. Not so much for our agency. Billing has been a nightmare! We also have a lot of Ohio Casualty policies that currently do not meet the UW requirements of Colorado Casualty. When questioned about how this is going to be handled, no one seems to be able to answer.
At one point in time, being HK Dent meant something at Safeco-preferred service, a second look at any account and a nice overide for a profitable book.
Over the last 3 years or so, it doesn’t really have much meaning. Just try going to your Sales Pro for an appeal on an account or better yet-try getting a reversal on a bad claims decision.
Senior Management paid lip service to the concept and it stopped there.
I’m going to hang on until retirement, but you are kidding yourselves if you think that Safeco will be more agency oriented under Liberty than it was under Paula. She had a mandate in 3 or 5 years to grow Safeco into top 10 land or sell the Company. She couldn’t grow it so she’s selling it. She just got her payday and really doesn’t care any longer.
Well, here we go again! I was formerly a Great American Insurance ee for 12 years, then sold to Ohio Casualty Group in 1998, now sold to Liberty Mutal Group last year. Still have the same job (Premium Auditor). We are all wondering how this will effect the OC footprint in the LM Agency Markets and all of our jobs. Just to let our wonderful agents know that OC will still be doing business as usual and will provide customer service with a smile!!!
Geez, Ed & Paula…what a couple !
They make Bill & Hillary look like saints!
Yeah: the shareholders and the value of the stock.
It’s all about money, guys
Yes, Alaska, welcome to the world of Liberty Mutual. They own every aggressive player on the street, and they all compete against each other. So yes, you may have more options but it all goes in the same bucket in the end, and the agents all follow blindly. Like a cattle call. We’re Liberty (or Ohio C, or Peerless, Wasaus or whatever they go by today) and we’re cheap — until we decide differently. Careful what you wish for Alaska.
Last month Liberty took an account from our agency. It was our largest account $2,100,000 in premium, loss ratio 90% over five years. In this market we got a renewal at $1,800,000, which we felt was too good for the performance of the account. Liberty wrote at $1,200,000 with a loss pick of 1.8 million.
The tough part is we represent Wausau and another one of their regional carriers. They are constantly on us to write business but they screw their AGENCY partners. these guys are ruining our business, and if they underwrite like this they will be gone like KEMPER. You heard it here first!!!!!
Insurance companies are being run by money managers and financial people now. It is no longer a relationship/partner business, even though all their marketing material says it is all about the “partnership”. The sooner agents begin to realize this, and make adjustments, the better off they will be.
MONEY is the key. The people at the top are interested in money only! You better get used to it.
JOE SMITH has obviously been drinking the ERIE Kool-Aid. If that is your carrier of choice, good for you. Thank you. In fact if you have been reading the news, General Casualty was sold a year ago to QBE, and QBE is looking to buy not sell. As a former employee, I know a little bit about the organization. I’m now on the agency side and ZEUS makes a very good point.
We look at OUR portfolio of companies similar to how we look at our investments. There are short-term gainers (buyers) and long-term gainers (underwriting companies) and we try to have a good mix of both. We try not to have too few carriers, and we try not to have too many. We’re keeping QBE as one of our stable carriers, because they will continue to buy and acquire and when they get organized they will be a stable power. I am a littled concerned that our Lib Mutual portfolio is getting a bit too large, however. We had Ohio Cas, and so we picked up Indiana. But we’re also big with Safeco. (not good) I think that we’ll be looking to diversify that portfolio, and our mix.
We would throw Chubb and Traveler’s in that mix. Love them or hate them, we have to have them in our mix. We see agencies with too many regionals, and they are going to be sorting out a lot of acquisitions in the next year or so.
Sorta makes Zurich look pretty smart if you ask me…. rather than sell outside to another market, they combined internally and will grow essentially organically.
Too bad about Safeco….it was a good company….well, about 10 years ago it was still good….
If anyone was the liar, it was Mike McGavick, because he originally put the company in position to be sold by selling off the Life Division. I used to work for the Life Division and thought that the P&C Division would never survive on it’s own and be bought out within 5 years…sadly, I was right. While Paula might be doing the actual sale, McGavick made it easier for her to do so.
Last time I checked these companies were in business to make money. Kind of the whole point is to make money. Agents, is this volunteer work you are doing or do you try to make a profit? To those that are whining that they were lied to do you really believe that any of us are so special (and I am including myself) that a CEO of a company would tell us what the REALLY plan to do? I travel all over this country and run in to agents that are big fish in small ponds and get all up in arms when an insurance company won’t bend to their will. I repeat, one agency gets upset when a multi-billion dollar company won’t roll over for them. This is just the way it is, good, bad or otherwise.
As this merger moves forward, the ax will start to drop on many employees, especially on the SAFECO side. This is the sad part or acquisitons as loyal long term employees are like pawns in a chess game- ie -over 50 and making too much money and benenfits.
I was part of the Kemper meltdown in 2001 and I was 55 when the chopping started. No wonder employees are no longer loyal to the financial “mazzas”. Customer service is now the pits in all aspects of business.
The unemployment lines will increase in Seattle Wa.
Sound like fear to me that seems to work well now day. I often wounder where is our faith let face the companies need us as well they can’t do it alone. If you are looking for trust with a CEO keep dreaming.
Well, what can I say? ERIE has been good to me and over 90% retention, even in this hard market. Profitable, solid regional. Family-owned, etc.
As to your QBE comment, I have not been living under a rock. My comment was directed toward a source of mine within that organization that they are looking for a buyer for their personal lines at Gen Casualty as they want to be a niche player in commercial lines.
I just went through this being an Ohio Casualty employee. None of us is happy and we all strongly dislike LM and its employees. Ohio Casualty prided itself on being very agency-focused and family-oriented, and LM comes in and without a thought lays off tons of people who have been here 25-30 years, and I doubt anyone at LM has been there over 10 years. I feel your pain Safeco, you may have thought you hated your job sometimes before, but that was nothing compared to how you will feel as part of the LM “family”.
Would it be possible to define or further elaborate on “tons of people”? Although there’s always the issue of duplicated positions, I’m in a major metro area (in the southeast) and haven’t heard a word yet about any casualties from either Liberty or Ohio Casualty.
I would say over 200, which may not sound like a lot but OC only had about 2000 employees to begin with. I guess my point is they honestly don’t care about anything but money, certainly not the lifetime dedication of the employees it acquires.
If you survive the cut, you might be more appreciative of the bonus you receive that didn’t have to be further distributed amongst the lifetime dedicated employees who were no longer productive. Liberty is extremely generous with its productive employees. Having been unemployed in the past, I can honestly say that something better really was around the corner every time. Nevertheless, wouldn’t OC employees with that much tenure (25-30 years) be eligible for retirement benefits???
Having been a Safeco agent since 1961, I have seen many changes in Safeco.They really started down the garden path when they bought American States and ruined that company. Then they decided they didn’t like to write property in Florida – most companies don’t. LM eats Safecos’ lunch most of the time when they compete head to head so I don’t see much good coming out this for Safeco agents in Florida or anywhere else. Of Course, Paula lied about the company being for sell. McGavick was brought in to clean up the company within a certain period of time. He was successful, got his golden handout and now Paula was brought in to either grow or sell and she has chosen to sell rather than compete with State Farm, the green lizard, and others. TOO BAD!!!! This will be a disaster for the customers and the agents.
I have already had a rep come in from Acuity and another from Westfield wanting to make an offer on my Safeco book. Travelers will be here soon. Even though the Safeco underwriter has his act together, his manager is new and doesn’t know what she’s doing. And the Sales Pros are really weird. They don’t know insurance and never respond with answers to my questions. That combined with the sale seals it for me. I’m moving my book to a stable market who understands my business and won’t be the next Liberty victim.
Before you jump head over heels with Acuity, make sure you check out their deteriorating combined ratio! They are not talking as smart as they were a few years ago, and they’ll be out of the market soon. By that I mean, very conservative as they fix their problems. Grown to fast, and too much trucking and construction. It is starting to hurt them.
This is just the begninning. If I’m working for a $300 mill to $3 bill stock company, I’m watching the news, because there will be more of this in 2008. The market is right, and the wolves are hungry. In fact there is a $1.5 billion stock company out there hanging at about $25 per share (no name here) that is RIPE and ready. It may take a few more months, but our agency is being cautious putting more business there. Several are struggling as this market softens, and there is only one way to grow – BUY !!!
To keep the market informed, QBE advises that its proposal to merge with IAG via a scheme of arrangement, which was open until 5:00pm yesterday and was rejected by the board of IAG, has at this stage been extended to 5:00 pm Monday, 5 May 2008.
Just this year, I completed 10 years of service with a carrier that used to enjoy a wonderful reputation with their agents for being a great partner. After changes in senior management too numerous to mention, the sole focus has definately become Return On Equity. I know that ROE and Profits are vitally important….but showing too much greed and not enough loyality will burn you in the end. Our “Core Values” have become a complete joke. I blame this largely on the fact that my employer has been hiring too many people from other carriers instead of promoting capable people from within. The people that were brought in knew nothing about our corporate culture, and promptly “trashed it”. In our old stucture, there was a lot of promoting from within, which strengthened morale. Now I feel like no matter how hard I work, the only way to get ahead would be to jump ship. I don’t work for Liberty Mutual or any of it’s subsidiaries….but I do work for a company that has been recently featured prominately with regard to merger actions….I’ll let you guess who that is….
I think that you are right. Farmers has shown that they can do small commercial much better than Zurich and they were rewarded for it. I think that Farmers may end up handling more of Zurich before this merger mania is over.
Liberty Mutual’s acquisition may be good for them, but for people that are at Safeco should be very careful! Liberty Mutual may be very “honest” but they are very sneeky and before you know it you will be out of a job in no time. They will use you for what you know and then throw you out. Just stay there until you get your sevarence, but don’t help out! They are backstabbers!!!! LIARS! They are not what they call themselves “Responsable”.
Furrier, you posted that just as THEY were announcing their 1Q results? And then their stock dropped about 13% today. So what do you know, and when will they be sold? This will be big news in the East and Midwest. (very interesting) When OC was sold, if I recall, they’re stock was hanging around $27 or $28 – and shot to $35 or $36 on the sale. I think my numbers are about right. So is now the time to buy in the low 20’s?
Those are new. Farmer’s is already owned by Zurich, and you are saying that Zurich wants to divest? That would seem contrary to the what we’re seeing, where the BIGS own companies with both direct agents and independents. ?? Also, I think Erie is safe. Too much going on in that profile, whereas other targets are more vanilla. For example, the other rumored EASTERN company here, is 70% commercial and 30% personal, and fairly vanilla in appetite. Sound underwriting. I’d say that they are ripe for a smart buyer.
Let’s get back to the fundamental issues. Any merger or acquisition is a short term gain and potentially long-range disaster. It’s true on the carrier side and it’s true on the agency side. You buy the customers and then try to hold onto them. Agents scramble while the so-called “sales pros” come to extort a number that you feel you can produce for the coming year. Who knows where you’ll be in a year.
As for Farmers/Zurich – the writing is on the wall. Zurich wants out of small business, and the have sweetened the deal by combining the books and consolidating it under Truck Insurance Exchange for an easy sale.
There was a time when this business was about being the best, not the richest. Customer lists are like shifting sands, and the morons in the towers don’t understand that without the agent/customer relationship, they are nothing.
I wish they would stop with the wholesale wrecking of this once proud business, looking for short-term gains to placate institutional investors. This was never a “get rich quick” business. It is a utility that is highly regulated, and it requires consistency and continuity.
It all started with the Aetna/Travelers deal and it has been downhill from there. Every time a merger is anounced, we agents are forced to reconsider our relationships. As the field shrinks, the pressure for growth continues. The treadmill is exhausting for smaller agents who are practically forced to sell-out or join an aggregator to survive. In the end the loss is exacted on the customer who loses a relationship to a faceless service representative and the business loses its purpose particulalrly for independent agents who are purposely in this business to be independent.
Truth is exactly that.
Truth should run for pres of Big I. Hey Truth, the Big I should purchase an insurance company and operate it with the values that you exault. It would solve the prolems if the real, professional smaller independent agent.
Who cares?? I have not had an insurance agent yet that cared about their customers… only that they are getting paid… have a claim and U will find out that agent’s are in it just for themselfs..
I cannot even imagine that a person from within the industry would have the audacity to trash an agent on this thread. You are either a seeting PI attorney or a classless claims adjuster; either way it is very apparent you were thrown out of charm school.
You ever consider that the problems you have experienced with agents might be your “endearing” personality?
I see nothing wrong with Lambert’s comments. I have seen agents on this thread ripping the big companies and their “greed” and he is just giving a different point of view. Throughout my years I have encountered more than my share of agents (personally and professionally) who gladly take their commission without providing any added value. I have simply taken my business elsewhere. For those of you good agents, the customer should be happy with you as long as your are giving them comparable service/price than they can get from the guy across the street who has to deal with the same Company consolidations. Not to pile on, but I have been very happy with the service from my direct carrier.
And then you have a company like Harleysville, coming off of years well above 100 combined. They actually practice a little underwriting for a couple of years, and as soon as they post numbers in the high 90’s, they start buying the business again. And there go the agents, following along with the cheap pricing offered by a carrier with no underwriting integrity. Oh well, they’re one of the companies soon to sold, I’m sure.
Have you all forgotten that Safeco did this exact same thing to American States just a few years ago. The A.S. employees felt exactly the way Safeco employees feel now. Safeco has been very unstable in our market for several years now. In fact I’m one of the few remaining Safeco agents in my area. In my opinion, it can only get better from an agent’s perspective.
Happy with your DIRECT writer? You happy they get you the bill, because that is the only service provided. You call, you get clerk roullette – a barely trained script reader who gives you a canned answer and lets you make your own coverage mistakes; and remember, you cannot sue yourself!
And, when the claim happens you go and visit the claim center – a quasi-DMV-like garage where the “appraiser” cuts you a check which you will surely need to supplement to get you car fixed.
As for agents and pricing. The underwriting cycle and pricing begins with the underwriting department. Consolidation won’t restrict the ***** cycle, it will increase it as the fewer remaining carriers fight over the spoils, trading accounts with each other until there are only a few companies left.
Until CEOs remember they are in business to provide the best service to their policyholders instead of constantly seeking to placate institutional investors and Squawk Box on CNBC, we will continue this wholesale dumbing-down of the business. CEOs from the energy sector running an insurance company? The writing was on the wall.
Finally, agents have become peddlers and hucksters because of the pressure to push volume over quality forces them onto the treadmill. It starts in the carrier and the carrier is the source of all of the negativity in the insurance business today, because they are greedy and have gone from insurer to money manager for institutional investing.
Have a little heart here. Please remember that there are still some old American States folks here at Safeco, so this is a double whammy for us. Safeco has proven to be a good employer (granted it’s different than the old AS org), they have helped me keep a roof over my childrens heads. So yes, there may be some whining going on but it’s because some of us don’t know what the future holds for us and our families.
First, I have the utmost sympathy for someone who is going through this type of uncertainty, while trying to provide for their family. I’m doing the same. However, my previous post wasn’t directed at employees. It was primarily directed at the agents who are “whining”. Safeco hasn’t been a friend to the agent in my state for several years, and any agent who didnt’ see this coming when Mike McGavick took the reigns is literally blind. It was clear from day 1 that his objective was to “whip” Safeco into shape to go on the bidding block.
Along the lines of your plea, Safeco jeopardized my ability to provide for my family when they decided to stop writing Homeowners for a year and a half, quit writing Earthquake insurance, starting nonrenewing half my commercial book, and starting surcharging long-time personal lines clients for Catastrophe claims. Up until these changes, Safeco was a major player in my agency. Luckily, we’ve found a company that is willing to help pick up the pieces.
So, don’t make the mistake of assuming that employees are the only ones who have a financial stake in this. Sometimes it’s easier for an employee to find another job than it is for an agent to find another company.
Sounds like you are a victim of “west coast” legislation with consequential reactions from the carrier.
It is right on about the difficulty getting a new carrier. Also consider the detriment not only to new business and renewals, but the over-all effect on the sale value of the agency as a business.
I don’t know about you, but I expect to use the value of my agency as a component to my retirement plan.
Safeco has been and will continue to be the cornerstone of my agencies. Over the years the company has had its ups and downs but overall they have offered good products at competitive prices to their clients. I am lucky to have a relationship with them.
Safeco has done what is in the best interest of the company and its bottom line. I cant blame anyone for doing that. Even if it doesnt work out for some agents or employees.
If your agency dropped Safeco for – what you perceived at the time – a better company. Do you think Safeco would cry foul?
Its obvious that Voice of reason and yourself are young agents. Safeco has been around for many years. The way I see it I will be acquiring a contract with a top five writer of property and casualty. Are you sure Safeco didnt just do you a favor?
Stick with what has got you to where you are. Markets come and go…youngsters. Safeco has been there through it all. When you have been around the block a few times like I have then come back and complain.
I work for an agency-committed and relationship company. What TRUTH says about the agents is TRUE! Have the BIG I buy a company and run it with values? Are you kidding? The AGENTS line up with whichever carrier is CHEAP, and that is IT!
How else do you explain all of the so-called righteous agents who lay in bed with ALLIED, PEERLESS, INDIANA, ENCOMPASS, etc. The same companies that are their competition? C’mon, today’s agent goes with whoever is cheap, whoever is giving away a trip, or whoever is offering the biggest bonus. The customer’s best interest is the last consideration in the eyes of the majority of agents today.
There are a lot of great agents out there that still care for their customers and try to provide the best possible coverage, price available. You also have the “used car salesman” agents that give the good agents a bad name, they are all the ones that are just in the business for the quick buck. Another problem in today’s society is that the customers are no longer loyal. When I was younger you depended on your agent to get you the best product – you didn’t go to six different agents to pit them all against each other on a bidding war.
I am a Safeco employee. I am also a 34 year old single mom. Safeco has been very good to me but I am scared of the future with Safeco after this merger.
To people who depend on this company and it’s success the sale is not about money or the same thing that was done to ASI. Thisis about our livelihood.
All you agents…J Levingstone and Voice of Reason…should be ashamed of yourselves for not seeing the big picture. In the end everything is not money. It is about people.
This is why I dont want to go out of my way to help agents. All they want is for me to give into them and make them more money and put my job on the line.
I’m with you Grateful, I’m also a Safeco employee. While I have the help of my spouses income to put food in the kids bellies I still need my income as well. I’m fortunate enough to have an awesome group of agents in the midwestern area of the country, they are courteous for the most part. I’m trying to keep a positive attitude, like, maybe Liberty wanted Safeco because of our excellent underwriting standards and practices, we have integrity and do not buy the business. We earn it with good customer service and product. A lot of other carriers cannot say that including some of our soon to be relatives. To all you Safeco employees, keep you heads up and continue to carry yourself with class. We found this job and can find another if needed.
Call me cynical, but in my 22 years as an agent, I haven’t seen much good come out of these “mergers” except for a quick pay day for the shareholders and the CEO.
Years of planning and hard work supporting a carrier can evaporate as agents are reshuffled through the deck. Those closest to the agent are also praying to keep their jobs so a contraversial “good word” cannot be expected.
The surviving entity almost always favors their current agency plant over the acquired. The “migration” over to systems and procedures of the surviving entity is disruptive, let alone the filings and such with the various DOIs.
In the end, the incline to tread gets steeper, with the surviving entity exerting more leverage as the field of players continues to dwindle and the dependence upon the surving carrier is more pronounced. It is about clout – not with agents, but over agents.
Dependence is not why I got into this business, but that is where we are headed. There was a time when friendly competition was good, and agents for the most part were respected and had a level playing field.
That is no longer the case. Now, it is about the business of business instead of the insurance business. The carriers pick the winners and losers, they force smaller agents out of the business – not because they are unprofitable, but because they want them to become employees of a larger entity – Read: Dependent.
Levingstone can sit back and sip from his glass-half-full, and life is good – until he realizes there is a hole in the bottom of it.
While I am not unsympathetic to your situations I must reiterate that IT IS about money. Safeco culled their problems, reinvented their business model, grew their business and became profitable. This was all to sell the company and make money for the corporation. What’s wrong with that?
I think that is smart business.
If you are nervous then hedge yourself by networking. Gosh, you could even talk to one of those agents that cause you so much grief and see if they have a position. I am always looking for experienced people to work for me.
No thanks! I’ll take my chances with the new Safeco. I would not want to work for a full of themselves agent that doesn’t pay anything to their employees. Especially someone who sees this as only about money.
I will land on my feet…not on my back in your office.
Did everyone skip the part about me being sympathetic with Safeco employees who are simply trying to support their families. My beef has been with Safeco’s market plan in my state, not the employees. Selective perception blows my mind.
There is absolutely no difference between a Safeco employee who is fearing the future of his job and a Safeco agent with whom Safeco was a major player in his agency. I’m 37 years old with a wife, two kids, a mortgage, and a car payment. Safeco paid my agency about $200,000 last year in commissions. Don’t think for one second that a merger doesn’t worry me. I’m not guaranteed to keep any of that business next year. However, you guys are talking severance, retirement money, etc.
What’s this crap about break gongs anyway? Is that a union thing?
The break gongs were before my time but rumor has it that the original Safeco had this gong type things throughout their offices that were rang and all employees stood up, went to break and came back. They did this in unison, all at once. Again, just rumor as I didn’t experience it first hand – I’ve been here 12 years with no gongs.
Your kidding right? A six figure income -that is just one company – in your agency is supposed to be comparable to my little income that I have to support my family on?
Your not sympathetic with the Safeco employee, you are just freightened of the extra work you have to do to move that book of business.
Ebenezer Levingstone – It’s not all about money. If so, I’d venture to guess many would be busting their hump doing something less enjoyable for money.
It’s all about short term gain for Wall Street. That is it. Nothing more.
As for Safeco, there won’t be a better Safeco because Safeco as we know it will cease to exist – Just like USF&G, St Paul, INA, Little Aetna, Big Aetna, the Old Travelers, American States, Reliance, TIG, Providence Washington, the Royal, the Home, the Continental, the Northbrook to name a few of the many of the once mighty who have gone to the graveyard of wall plaques.
Accounts are but sand sifting through the sieve. Who controls them?
Are you that producer sitting in your office at the end of a long dark hallway contemplating why your endowment is so small while waiting for your big boss agency owner to throw you an account?
I agree with you Grateful-not sure who you are, but feel like it could be on the other side of my cube wall. I need this job to feed my kid and me. It doesn’t pay well, but as a single parent, you don’t have too many choices.
I too am not going out on a limb for any of the agents my TM assigns to me-I don’t know them as they were new to me just a few months ago and will change again when there is more turnover. And management doesn’t support me in upholding their underwriting rules when an agent complains that I am being too restrictive so I’ll refer every account I can to the TM or Regional Manager. They can catch the heat from the Sales Pro or agent-not me. And as long as Liberty keeps on paying me just like Safeco did, then I’ll do what I have to to keep my job.
I’m in it for my paycheck just like you agents.
My point is that all of this is about Safeco making money. If you think differently then you are just kidding yourself. Everyone has to adapt and make the most of the situation. I am sure that employees are nervous. But thats the route you have taken. I tend to see the silver lining. Liberty Mutual may or may not be the best company. I’ll judge them over time. They are a large company and I’m sure they have some pros and cons about them but they have to be doing something right to be as successful as they are. I will welcome them with open arms until I have another reason to feel differently.
Grateful – I wish you nothing but the best. You have gotten a little rowdy on her and that shows you have spirit. I like that and I am sure that you are a good employee. I am sure you would be an valuable asset at the agent level. If I knew you I would talk to you about a good paying position with my agency.
Voice of Reason – I am disappointed in your rapport. You have a lot of growing to do.
I think everybody is missing the big picture… We all feel the same way. As horrible it is that mergers like this cost people jobs, and we all feel for those who get cut( right Livingstone!!), the sad fact remains that this is part of the business we signed up for. The days of lore no longer exist, companies merge. Airlines, big oil, even major appliance makers merge.
I’ve been on both sides…hang in there Safeco folks…if you are worth keeping you should land on your feet…. And even if you don’t stay with Liberty, something always will pop up…especially in this field!!!
Watch the news re: Selective, I think they are next. Cincy isn’t going to be sitting too pretty by the end of 2008, either. But Selective is the company to watch. (just my prediction)
Hang in there Safeco employees. I worked for Safeco for a couple of years.. worst company I EVER worked.. Underwriting and underwriters are rediculous..!! They had no clue what the hell they were doin.. You all will be better off with Liberty..!
Next is close, but I think CINCI is safe, for now. Selective, Harleysville, and Citzens/Hanover are the companies to watch right now. Somebody posted those earlier, and I see mergers or straight out acquisition are possibilities that will happen in 2008
Harvy H – I’m really sorry that your experience with Safeco was so poor. I’ve been here 12 years and other than a few rough spots with upper mgmt changes, different directions with the market etc I’ve found Safeco to be a very good and respectful company, I’m proud to say I’m an underwriter in this organization. I’m not sure which office you were working out of but can be 99.9% sure it wasn’t our Midwest location because this office has very experienced and knowledgable underwriters.
I started with Western Insurance, was bought by American States, then bought by Safeco and now Liberty Mutual. I can say that my 20+ years of experience tells me the good ones stay, the bad ones are weeded out. I’m paid well, enjoy my teammates, love my agents and Safeco has been an excellent company to work with. I’ve heard nothing but great things from those that work at Liberty companies that I am close with — Wausau, Liberty Mutual itself, Indiana, etc.
Yes — it’s all about the money. Isn’t that what Corporate America is all about?
If you are the best of the best — agent, or company employe, you have nothing to worry about. Put money away for the future and keep your nose to the grindstone.
If you’re not the best, then you have some work to do. Spend more time learning and less time complaining. We’ll all benefit in the end.
I worked for Safeco as an underwriter for 9 years, and was laid off when my division was closed. It was heartbreaking…and the 2nd time I suffered through a lay off. I worked for AIG/New Hampshire Ins., Southern Calif. office – it was decided to close the branch. Its ironic, I went to Safeco, a company with a history of taking care of their employees, only to be laid off after many good years of service. I’ve worked for several insurance companies that have laid off employees; Highlands Insurance Company, Pacific National Insurance Company, AIG/New Hampshire Insurance Company and Safeco. I’ve learned through the years, nothing is guaranteed, your job performance is not part of the decision making process when a large corporation decides to make a change. All I can say is, its on you now, if you plan on retiring in comfort, you have to keep your skills and marketability sharp…you’ll need them as you move from one company to the next…your loyalty has to be to yourself!
Now it has been a couple of years since the merger… Are people still happy? After the figures were released they lost a lot of money… wonder how happy everyone is now. Are jobs safe, will they sell and then who would be safe… a lot going on… anyone remember when st. paul bought usfg what happened… travelers bought that company and then they were st. paul/travelers… now they are travelers…
Here’s a question: Will the Mariners be playing at Liberty Mutual field in Seattle when it’s all said and done?
We represent Safeco and America First in our office. I’m not a fan, as there is a need for both companies. This just removes competitiveness from the market. Of course there was a dwindling number of auto customers; there’s too many idiots in the soft market.
The further consolidation in the marketplace has a limiting effect on agents. Every time a company acquires another, the threat toward increased production becomes more acute. Survival and growth opportunity for the smaller agent becomes more risky as carriers favor their larger agents by giving them better pay-outs and incentives which places their smaller agents on a tread mill.
I am a Safeco agent who has suffered through too many acquired carriers – a big disruption to our ability to compete. I can’t see how a heavily commercial – and larger commercial at that – insurance carrier like Liberty Mutual is going to benefit the traditional agency. This is NOT good news for our agency.
Thanks, Paula. Maybe you can have a lifeboat full of cash as did Norm Blake for your handiwork, but we agents that you have forced to tread water do not appreciate it – “Watch Paula Win!”
Let’s not overlook the impact on people @ Safeco. In CA, they will not need to keep all of the people and offices for both Golden Eagle and Safeco. Layoff’s are certain at a bad time – I’m sure shareholders will be pleased.
Liberty let Wausau operate, and in many cases, compete directly with other Liberty units. You may see the same thing here. They may consolidate back room functions to lower cost, but continue to let Safeco price, underwrite, and compete as they do now. I think it is too soon to tell.
OK…. who’s next up? See previous posts – lots of rumors. CNA, Harleysville, Selective, Philadelphia, Hanover Group, all have to be wondering. And when is Traveler’s going to buy? (and who!?!?!)
It is apparent that Safeco lives through this ordeal. They will become the strongest member in the West for Lib Mutual’s Regional Operations arm, and will begin to buy business just like Peerless, Indiana, and Ohio Casualty are doing elsewhere. How long can Liberty last – because the numbers (profit) just are not there. This is not good news for the smaller (WEST) regional operations for Lib Mutual. The question now is what happens to the Safeco book in other states? Does Indiana, Ohio Cas, Peerless, pick up the Safeco biz that is EAST of the Mississippi?
I worked for Liberty Mutual for a number of years. I do not see a bright, shiny outcome for agents or Safeco employees. Edmund (Ted) Kelley has been a slash/burn CEO since before he came to Libery Mutual. I have witnessed, first hand, the dismissals, downsizings and terminations. Enjoy Safeco while you can, the ride will likely be over soon.
To Company Guy: The folks at Zurich Small Business feel your pain.
It’ll be Travelers on CNA as the next major merger. Watch our for Warren moving in on Hanover too. It’s a fit.
I also wouldn’t be surprised to see Zurich moving on Philadelphia.
I’ve been curiously watching QBE, as all reports show that they have about $2 billion available for an addtional acquisition. I’ve heard Selective or Harleysville. Selective would be an outstanding fit for QBE’s regional operations. When will Traveler’s get moving on that CNA acquisition? It is long overdue for the Great Gorilla.
Where will it end. There will be three carriers left by the time this merger frenzy is over. I feel your pain, you younger people who have to deal with this through a career.
When Safeco acquired American States we were all upset too…
serves Safeco right for sinking their own ship…..
Who thinks that there will be too few carriers when this is all said and done? Are you kidding me? I just had to send a report to our HO outlining the competitors in our region, and what they are doing in the marketplace. I stopped at about 20, and didn’t even get down to the small mutuals. Technology, paperless filing, and field underwriting have opened doors to carriers we’ve never even heard of. Good for Liberty, and anybody else that wants to buy up more carriers! There are too many! And if I was working for, or an agent for, a $500 million to $3 billion company, I’d be careful of the bridges that I burn in the market. THAT COMPANY I’VE BEEN RIPPING could be the next OWNER !!?
I was watching the video with Paula telling me how great this is. I can see now just what a great job she did for Safeco, sold it down the river sorry to say. Yes, AFI is a great company, but now instead of two, we will just have one. The founder, Mr. Dent, would probably not be in favor of just a return on investment, it takes a real visionary to bring a company from start-up to greatness with all of the different CEO’s along with way putting their visions into the company. It doesn’t require near as much to sell something that you had no part of…hell, anyone can do that.
Enough said…
Looks like this might not be the first M&A this year. I am hearing that General Casualty may be on the block as well. Oh well..at least I have ERIE.
LM is acquiring some good books of business and with the ease of doing business quality (even during the transition of Ohio Casualty), the platform will be tremendous and the rates will be overall more competitive for the Agency Markets business of LM, even in this soft market no matter what the company. LM has great personnel to work with.
As a member of the H.K. Dent Society, and owner of a 40+ year old Safeco book, I feel really cheated. At a recent H.K. Dent formal dinner I loked Paula in the face and asked her about the move to sell off all of Safeco’s Seattle-area properties. Microsoft bought the Redmond, WA campus about 5 years ago, then the big Safeco tower was sold to the Univ. of WA just two years ago… I point-blank asked her if she was positioning the company to be sold and was told “absolutely not!”
Yeah, right. Thanks, Paula. So much for the “we’re all family, and we love you guys” attitude.
Just my initial thoughts.
Swymmer
They didn’t want you to be alarmed and shop your book around – because after all, it isn’t about you but about the shareholders and the value of her golden handshake!
If I’m a SAFECO employee EAST of the Mississippi, I would dust off that resume, and dust it off now! How many Ohio Casualty folks in Indiana and Illinois sat around to wait and see? Liberty is buying business on the street, and continues to gulf other carriers. It is almost amazing to watch them do it.
You think you have it Bad, Alaska only has a hand full of admitted Companies and now this!!!! Safeco was one of easy campanies to use, sell and their customer service was great!
Sorry to read about this!
Hopefully this will bring more markets to Alaska and broader underwriting!
I’m still not sure how the purchase of Ohio Casualty is going to shake out so now this new buy out has left me wondering, where will it end. We write with Safeco at our agency but they are not competitive and therefore we don’t place a lot of business with them. We also have Colorado Casualty and did have Ohio Casualty until that buyout took place. When we lost Ohio Casualty we lost a great market for dwelling fire and auto’s. I don’t feel that Liberty Mutual buying Safeco is a bad thing I just wonder what and who’s next.
Glad you have had an easy transition. Not so much for our agency. Billing has been a nightmare! We also have a lot of Ohio Casualty policies that currently do not meet the UW requirements of Colorado Casualty. When questioned about how this is going to be handled, no one seems to be able to answer.
At one point in time, being HK Dent meant something at Safeco-preferred service, a second look at any account and a nice overide for a profitable book.
Over the last 3 years or so, it doesn’t really have much meaning. Just try going to your Sales Pro for an appeal on an account or better yet-try getting a reversal on a bad claims decision.
Senior Management paid lip service to the concept and it stopped there.
I’m going to hang on until retirement, but you are kidding yourselves if you think that Safeco will be more agency oriented under Liberty than it was under Paula. She had a mandate in 3 or 5 years to grow Safeco into top 10 land or sell the Company. She couldn’t grow it so she’s selling it. She just got her payday and really doesn’t care any longer.
Safeco can now sell their employee break gongs on E bay.
Well, here we go again! I was formerly a Great American Insurance ee for 12 years, then sold to Ohio Casualty Group in 1998, now sold to Liberty Mutal Group last year. Still have the same job (Premium Auditor). We are all wondering how this will effect the OC footprint in the LM Agency Markets and all of our jobs. Just to let our wonderful agents know that OC will still be doing business as usual and will provide customer service with a smile!!!
Geez, Ed & Paula…what a couple !
They make Bill & Hillary look like saints!
Yeah: the shareholders and the value of the stock.
It’s all about money, guys
Yes, Alaska, welcome to the world of Liberty Mutual. They own every aggressive player on the street, and they all compete against each other. So yes, you may have more options but it all goes in the same bucket in the end, and the agents all follow blindly. Like a cattle call. We’re Liberty (or Ohio C, or Peerless, Wasaus or whatever they go by today) and we’re cheap — until we decide differently. Careful what you wish for Alaska.
Last month Liberty took an account from our agency. It was our largest account $2,100,000 in premium, loss ratio 90% over five years. In this market we got a renewal at $1,800,000, which we felt was too good for the performance of the account. Liberty wrote at $1,200,000 with a loss pick of 1.8 million.
The tough part is we represent Wausau and another one of their regional carriers. They are constantly on us to write business but they screw their AGENCY partners. these guys are ruining our business, and if they underwrite like this they will be gone like KEMPER. You heard it here first!!!!!
Folks:
Insurance companies are being run by money managers and financial people now. It is no longer a relationship/partner business, even though all their marketing material says it is all about the “partnership”. The sooner agents begin to realize this, and make adjustments, the better off they will be.
MONEY is the key. The people at the top are interested in money only! You better get used to it.
JOE SMITH has obviously been drinking the ERIE Kool-Aid. If that is your carrier of choice, good for you. Thank you. In fact if you have been reading the news, General Casualty was sold a year ago to QBE, and QBE is looking to buy not sell. As a former employee, I know a little bit about the organization. I’m now on the agency side and ZEUS makes a very good point.
We look at OUR portfolio of companies similar to how we look at our investments. There are short-term gainers (buyers) and long-term gainers (underwriting companies) and we try to have a good mix of both. We try not to have too few carriers, and we try not to have too many. We’re keeping QBE as one of our stable carriers, because they will continue to buy and acquire and when they get organized they will be a stable power. I am a littled concerned that our Lib Mutual portfolio is getting a bit too large, however. We had Ohio Cas, and so we picked up Indiana. But we’re also big with Safeco. (not good) I think that we’ll be looking to diversify that portfolio, and our mix.
We would throw Chubb and Traveler’s in that mix. Love them or hate them, we have to have them in our mix. We see agencies with too many regionals, and they are going to be sorting out a lot of acquisitions in the next year or so.
Sorta makes Zurich look pretty smart if you ask me…. rather than sell outside to another market, they combined internally and will grow essentially organically.
Too bad about Safeco….it was a good company….well, about 10 years ago it was still good….
If anyone was the liar, it was Mike McGavick, because he originally put the company in position to be sold by selling off the Life Division. I used to work for the Life Division and thought that the P&C Division would never survive on it’s own and be bought out within 5 years…sadly, I was right. While Paula might be doing the actual sale, McGavick made it easier for her to do so.
Last time I checked these companies were in business to make money. Kind of the whole point is to make money. Agents, is this volunteer work you are doing or do you try to make a profit? To those that are whining that they were lied to do you really believe that any of us are so special (and I am including myself) that a CEO of a company would tell us what the REALLY plan to do? I travel all over this country and run in to agents that are big fish in small ponds and get all up in arms when an insurance company won’t bend to their will. I repeat, one agency gets upset when a multi-billion dollar company won’t roll over for them. This is just the way it is, good, bad or otherwise.
As this merger moves forward, the ax will start to drop on many employees, especially on the SAFECO side. This is the sad part or acquisitons as loyal long term employees are like pawns in a chess game- ie -over 50 and making too much money and benenfits.
I was part of the Kemper meltdown in 2001 and I was 55 when the chopping started. No wonder employees are no longer loyal to the financial “mazzas”. Customer service is now the pits in all aspects of business.
The unemployment lines will increase in Seattle Wa.
Sound like fear to me that seems to work well now day. I often wounder where is our faith let face the companies need us as well they can’t do it alone. If you are looking for trust with a CEO keep dreaming.
This will only increase other mergers, as the other companies will now need to merge to keep other !
Well, what can I say? ERIE has been good to me and over 90% retention, even in this hard market. Profitable, solid regional. Family-owned, etc.
As to your QBE comment, I have not been living under a rock. My comment was directed toward a source of mine within that organization that they are looking for a buyer for their personal lines at Gen Casualty as they want to be a niche player in commercial lines.
I just went through this being an Ohio Casualty employee. None of us is happy and we all strongly dislike LM and its employees. Ohio Casualty prided itself on being very agency-focused and family-oriented, and LM comes in and without a thought lays off tons of people who have been here 25-30 years, and I doubt anyone at LM has been there over 10 years. I feel your pain Safeco, you may have thought you hated your job sometimes before, but that was nothing compared to how you will feel as part of the LM “family”.
Would it be possible to define or further elaborate on “tons of people”? Although there’s always the issue of duplicated positions, I’m in a major metro area (in the southeast) and haven’t heard a word yet about any casualties from either Liberty or Ohio Casualty.
I would say over 200, which may not sound like a lot but OC only had about 2000 employees to begin with. I guess my point is they honestly don’t care about anything but money, certainly not the lifetime dedication of the employees it acquires.
If you survive the cut, you might be more appreciative of the bonus you receive that didn’t have to be further distributed amongst the lifetime dedicated employees who were no longer productive. Liberty is extremely generous with its productive employees. Having been unemployed in the past, I can honestly say that something better really was around the corner every time. Nevertheless, wouldn’t OC employees with that much tenure (25-30 years) be eligible for retirement benefits???
Having been a Safeco agent since 1961, I have seen many changes in Safeco.They really started down the garden path when they bought American States and ruined that company. Then they decided they didn’t like to write property in Florida – most companies don’t. LM eats Safecos’ lunch most of the time when they compete head to head so I don’t see much good coming out this for Safeco agents in Florida or anywhere else. Of Course, Paula lied about the company being for sell. McGavick was brought in to clean up the company within a certain period of time. He was successful, got his golden handout and now Paula was brought in to either grow or sell and she has chosen to sell rather than compete with State Farm, the green lizard, and others. TOO BAD!!!! This will be a disaster for the customers and the agents.
one less place you poor indy’s can go to,lm long t.
I have already had a rep come in from Acuity and another from Westfield wanting to make an offer on my Safeco book. Travelers will be here soon. Even though the Safeco underwriter has his act together, his manager is new and doesn’t know what she’s doing. And the Sales Pros are really weird. They don’t know insurance and never respond with answers to my questions. That combined with the sale seals it for me. I’m moving my book to a stable market who understands my business and won’t be the next Liberty victim.
Before you jump head over heels with Acuity, make sure you check out their deteriorating combined ratio! They are not talking as smart as they were a few years ago, and they’ll be out of the market soon. By that I mean, very conservative as they fix their problems. Grown to fast, and too much trucking and construction. It is starting to hurt them.
This is just the begninning. If I’m working for a $300 mill to $3 bill stock company, I’m watching the news, because there will be more of this in 2008. The market is right, and the wolves are hungry. In fact there is a $1.5 billion stock company out there hanging at about $25 per share (no name here) that is RIPE and ready. It may take a few more months, but our agency is being cautious putting more business there. Several are struggling as this market softens, and there is only one way to grow – BUY !!!
The word on the street is Farmers is the next purchase and then Erie $$
QBE’s proposal to merge with IAG
To keep the market informed, QBE advises that its proposal to merge with IAG via a scheme of arrangement, which was open until 5:00pm yesterday and was rejected by the board of IAG, has at this stage been extended to 5:00 pm Monday, 5 May 2008.
Amen Hey Zeus,
Just this year, I completed 10 years of service with a carrier that used to enjoy a wonderful reputation with their agents for being a great partner. After changes in senior management too numerous to mention, the sole focus has definately become Return On Equity. I know that ROE and Profits are vitally important….but showing too much greed and not enough loyality will burn you in the end. Our “Core Values” have become a complete joke. I blame this largely on the fact that my employer has been hiring too many people from other carriers instead of promoting capable people from within. The people that were brought in knew nothing about our corporate culture, and promptly “trashed it”. In our old stucture, there was a lot of promoting from within, which strengthened morale. Now I feel like no matter how hard I work, the only way to get ahead would be to jump ship. I don’t work for Liberty Mutual or any of it’s subsidiaries….but I do work for a company that has been recently featured prominately with regard to merger actions….I’ll let you guess who that is….
I think that you are right. Farmers has shown that they can do small commercial much better than Zurich and they were rewarded for it. I think that Farmers may end up handling more of Zurich before this merger mania is over.
Liberty Mutual’s acquisition may be good for them, but for people that are at Safeco should be very careful! Liberty Mutual may be very “honest” but they are very sneeky and before you know it you will be out of a job in no time. They will use you for what you know and then throw you out. Just stay there until you get your sevarence, but don’t help out! They are backstabbers!!!! LIARS! They are not what they call themselves “Responsable”.
You are so right! I know what you are feeling, I went through this at OC. LM is nothing but power and money hungry!
“LM is nothing but power and money hungry”?
These are the words of a loser. Get back to work and maybe you’ll hang onto your job.
Furrier, you posted that just as THEY were announcing their 1Q results? And then their stock dropped about 13% today. So what do you know, and when will they be sold? This will be big news in the East and Midwest. (very interesting) When OC was sold, if I recall, they’re stock was hanging around $27 or $28 – and shot to $35 or $36 on the sale. I think my numbers are about right. So is now the time to buy in the low 20’s?
Those are new. Farmer’s is already owned by Zurich, and you are saying that Zurich wants to divest? That would seem contrary to the what we’re seeing, where the BIGS own companies with both direct agents and independents. ?? Also, I think Erie is safe. Too much going on in that profile, whereas other targets are more vanilla. For example, the other rumored EASTERN company here, is 70% commercial and 30% personal, and fairly vanilla in appetite. Sound underwriting. I’d say that they are ripe for a smart buyer.
Let’s get back to the fundamental issues. Any merger or acquisition is a short term gain and potentially long-range disaster. It’s true on the carrier side and it’s true on the agency side. You buy the customers and then try to hold onto them. Agents scramble while the so-called “sales pros” come to extort a number that you feel you can produce for the coming year. Who knows where you’ll be in a year.
As for Farmers/Zurich – the writing is on the wall. Zurich wants out of small business, and the have sweetened the deal by combining the books and consolidating it under Truck Insurance Exchange for an easy sale.
There was a time when this business was about being the best, not the richest. Customer lists are like shifting sands, and the morons in the towers don’t understand that without the agent/customer relationship, they are nothing.
I wish they would stop with the wholesale wrecking of this once proud business, looking for short-term gains to placate institutional investors. This was never a “get rich quick” business. It is a utility that is highly regulated, and it requires consistency and continuity.
It all started with the Aetna/Travelers deal and it has been downhill from there. Every time a merger is anounced, we agents are forced to reconsider our relationships. As the field shrinks, the pressure for growth continues. The treadmill is exhausting for smaller agents who are practically forced to sell-out or join an aggregator to survive. In the end the loss is exacted on the customer who loses a relationship to a faceless service representative and the business loses its purpose particulalrly for independent agents who are purposely in this business to be independent.
Truth is exactly that.
Truth should run for pres of Big I. Hey Truth, the Big I should purchase an insurance company and operate it with the values that you exault. It would solve the prolems if the real, professional smaller independent agent.
Who cares?? I have not had an insurance agent yet that cared about their customers… only that they are getting paid… have a claim and U will find out that agent’s are in it just for themselfs..
I cannot even imagine that a person from within the industry would have the audacity to trash an agent on this thread. You are either a seeting PI attorney or a classless claims adjuster; either way it is very apparent you were thrown out of charm school.
You ever consider that the problems you have experienced with agents might be your “endearing” personality?
I see nothing wrong with Lambert’s comments. I have seen agents on this thread ripping the big companies and their “greed” and he is just giving a different point of view. Throughout my years I have encountered more than my share of agents (personally and professionally) who gladly take their commission without providing any added value. I have simply taken my business elsewhere. For those of you good agents, the customer should be happy with you as long as your are giving them comparable service/price than they can get from the guy across the street who has to deal with the same Company consolidations. Not to pile on, but I have been very happy with the service from my direct carrier.
And then you have a company like Harleysville, coming off of years well above 100 combined. They actually practice a little underwriting for a couple of years, and as soon as they post numbers in the high 90’s, they start buying the business again. And there go the agents, following along with the cheap pricing offered by a carrier with no underwriting integrity. Oh well, they’re one of the companies soon to sold, I’m sure.
Have you all forgotten that Safeco did this exact same thing to American States just a few years ago. The A.S. employees felt exactly the way Safeco employees feel now. Safeco has been very unstable in our market for several years now. In fact I’m one of the few remaining Safeco agents in my area. In my opinion, it can only get better from an agent’s perspective.
Can you say Mike McGavick??????????????
Happy with your DIRECT writer? You happy they get you the bill, because that is the only service provided. You call, you get clerk roullette – a barely trained script reader who gives you a canned answer and lets you make your own coverage mistakes; and remember, you cannot sue yourself!
And, when the claim happens you go and visit the claim center – a quasi-DMV-like garage where the “appraiser” cuts you a check which you will surely need to supplement to get you car fixed.
As for agents and pricing. The underwriting cycle and pricing begins with the underwriting department. Consolidation won’t restrict the ***** cycle, it will increase it as the fewer remaining carriers fight over the spoils, trading accounts with each other until there are only a few companies left.
Until CEOs remember they are in business to provide the best service to their policyholders instead of constantly seeking to placate institutional investors and Squawk Box on CNBC, we will continue this wholesale dumbing-down of the business. CEOs from the energy sector running an insurance company? The writing was on the wall.
Finally, agents have become peddlers and hucksters because of the pressure to push volume over quality forces them onto the treadmill. It starts in the carrier and the carrier is the source of all of the negativity in the insurance business today, because they are greedy and have gone from insurer to money manager for institutional investing.
Have a little heart here. Please remember that there are still some old American States folks here at Safeco, so this is a double whammy for us. Safeco has proven to be a good employer (granted it’s different than the old AS org), they have helped me keep a roof over my childrens heads. So yes, there may be some whining going on but it’s because some of us don’t know what the future holds for us and our families.
First, I have the utmost sympathy for someone who is going through this type of uncertainty, while trying to provide for their family. I’m doing the same. However, my previous post wasn’t directed at employees. It was primarily directed at the agents who are “whining”. Safeco hasn’t been a friend to the agent in my state for several years, and any agent who didnt’ see this coming when Mike McGavick took the reigns is literally blind. It was clear from day 1 that his objective was to “whip” Safeco into shape to go on the bidding block.
Along the lines of your plea, Safeco jeopardized my ability to provide for my family when they decided to stop writing Homeowners for a year and a half, quit writing Earthquake insurance, starting nonrenewing half my commercial book, and starting surcharging long-time personal lines clients for Catastrophe claims. Up until these changes, Safeco was a major player in my agency. Luckily, we’ve found a company that is willing to help pick up the pieces.
So, don’t make the mistake of assuming that employees are the only ones who have a financial stake in this. Sometimes it’s easier for an employee to find another job than it is for an agent to find another company.
Sounds like you are a victim of “west coast” legislation with consequential reactions from the carrier.
It is right on about the difficulty getting a new carrier. Also consider the detriment not only to new business and renewals, but the over-all effect on the sale value of the agency as a business.
I don’t know about you, but I expect to use the value of my agency as a component to my retirement plan.
Safeco has been and will continue to be the cornerstone of my agencies. Over the years the company has had its ups and downs but overall they have offered good products at competitive prices to their clients. I am lucky to have a relationship with them.
Safeco has done what is in the best interest of the company and its bottom line. I cant blame anyone for doing that. Even if it doesnt work out for some agents or employees.
If your agency dropped Safeco for – what you perceived at the time – a better company. Do you think Safeco would cry foul?
I bet your tune will change when you’re in the soup line.
Eating lobster bisque from a porcelain bowl.
Its obvious that Voice of reason and yourself are young agents. Safeco has been around for many years. The way I see it I will be acquiring a contract with a top five writer of property and casualty. Are you sure Safeco didnt just do you a favor?
Stick with what has got you to where you are. Markets come and go…youngsters. Safeco has been there through it all. When you have been around the block a few times like I have then come back and complain.
I work for an agency-committed and relationship company. What TRUTH says about the agents is TRUE! Have the BIG I buy a company and run it with values? Are you kidding? The AGENTS line up with whichever carrier is CHEAP, and that is IT!
How else do you explain all of the so-called righteous agents who lay in bed with ALLIED, PEERLESS, INDIANA, ENCOMPASS, etc. The same companies that are their competition? C’mon, today’s agent goes with whoever is cheap, whoever is giving away a trip, or whoever is offering the biggest bonus. The customer’s best interest is the last consideration in the eyes of the majority of agents today.
There are a lot of great agents out there that still care for their customers and try to provide the best possible coverage, price available. You also have the “used car salesman” agents that give the good agents a bad name, they are all the ones that are just in the business for the quick buck. Another problem in today’s society is that the customers are no longer loyal. When I was younger you depended on your agent to get you the best product – you didn’t go to six different agents to pit them all against each other on a bidding war.
I am a Safeco employee. I am also a 34 year old single mom. Safeco has been very good to me but I am scared of the future with Safeco after this merger.
To people who depend on this company and it’s success the sale is not about money or the same thing that was done to ASI. Thisis about our livelihood.
All you agents…J Levingstone and Voice of Reason…should be ashamed of yourselves for not seeing the big picture. In the end everything is not money. It is about people.
This is why I dont want to go out of my way to help agents. All they want is for me to give into them and make them more money and put my job on the line.
I’m with you Grateful, I’m also a Safeco employee. While I have the help of my spouses income to put food in the kids bellies I still need my income as well. I’m fortunate enough to have an awesome group of agents in the midwestern area of the country, they are courteous for the most part. I’m trying to keep a positive attitude, like, maybe Liberty wanted Safeco because of our excellent underwriting standards and practices, we have integrity and do not buy the business. We earn it with good customer service and product. A lot of other carriers cannot say that including some of our soon to be relatives. To all you Safeco employees, keep you heads up and continue to carry yourself with class. We found this job and can find another if needed.
Call me cynical, but in my 22 years as an agent, I haven’t seen much good come out of these “mergers” except for a quick pay day for the shareholders and the CEO.
Years of planning and hard work supporting a carrier can evaporate as agents are reshuffled through the deck. Those closest to the agent are also praying to keep their jobs so a contraversial “good word” cannot be expected.
The surviving entity almost always favors their current agency plant over the acquired. The “migration” over to systems and procedures of the surviving entity is disruptive, let alone the filings and such with the various DOIs.
In the end, the incline to tread gets steeper, with the surviving entity exerting more leverage as the field of players continues to dwindle and the dependence upon the surving carrier is more pronounced. It is about clout – not with agents, but over agents.
Dependence is not why I got into this business, but that is where we are headed. There was a time when friendly competition was good, and agents for the most part were respected and had a level playing field.
That is no longer the case. Now, it is about the business of business instead of the insurance business. The carriers pick the winners and losers, they force smaller agents out of the business – not because they are unprofitable, but because they want them to become employees of a larger entity – Read: Dependent.
Levingstone can sit back and sip from his glass-half-full, and life is good – until he realizes there is a hole in the bottom of it.
While I am not unsympathetic to your situations I must reiterate that IT IS about money. Safeco culled their problems, reinvented their business model, grew their business and became profitable. This was all to sell the company and make money for the corporation. What’s wrong with that?
I think that is smart business.
If you are nervous then hedge yourself by networking. Gosh, you could even talk to one of those agents that cause you so much grief and see if they have a position. I am always looking for experienced people to work for me.
No thanks! I’ll take my chances with the new Safeco. I would not want to work for a full of themselves agent that doesn’t pay anything to their employees. Especially someone who sees this as only about money.
I will land on my feet…not on my back in your office.
My glass is as full as I want it to be.
People…it is all about money. Would you show up to work every day if there was no paycheck at the end of the week.
Safeco will be a better company. The young agents will get theirs. The employees will get theirs and everyone lives happily ever after.
Did everyone skip the part about me being sympathetic with Safeco employees who are simply trying to support their families. My beef has been with Safeco’s market plan in my state, not the employees. Selective perception blows my mind.
There is absolutely no difference between a Safeco employee who is fearing the future of his job and a Safeco agent with whom Safeco was a major player in his agency. I’m 37 years old with a wife, two kids, a mortgage, and a car payment. Safeco paid my agency about $200,000 last year in commissions. Don’t think for one second that a merger doesn’t worry me. I’m not guaranteed to keep any of that business next year. However, you guys are talking severance, retirement money, etc.
What’s this crap about break gongs anyway? Is that a union thing?
The break gongs were before my time but rumor has it that the original Safeco had this gong type things throughout their offices that were rang and all employees stood up, went to break and came back. They did this in unison, all at once. Again, just rumor as I didn’t experience it first hand – I’ve been here 12 years with no gongs.
Your kidding right? A six figure income -that is just one company – in your agency is supposed to be comparable to my little income that I have to support my family on?
Your not sympathetic with the Safeco employee, you are just freightened of the extra work you have to do to move that book of business.
Voice of reason…
Just give it up. You can’t win with a disgruntled employee.
I bet she gets high marks on her annual evaluations.
Ebenezer Levingstone – It’s not all about money. If so, I’d venture to guess many would be busting their hump doing something less enjoyable for money.
It’s all about short term gain for Wall Street. That is it. Nothing more.
As for Safeco, there won’t be a better Safeco because Safeco as we know it will cease to exist – Just like USF&G, St Paul, INA, Little Aetna, Big Aetna, the Old Travelers, American States, Reliance, TIG, Providence Washington, the Royal, the Home, the Continental, the Northbrook to name a few of the many of the once mighty who have gone to the graveyard of wall plaques.
Accounts are but sand sifting through the sieve. Who controls them?
I wonder if her supervisor knows she’s spending all this “company” time arguing with Satan’s spawn. Somebody needs to hit the gong.
Are you that producer sitting in your office at the end of a long dark hallway contemplating why your endowment is so small while waiting for your big boss agency owner to throw you an account?
Call me and we will work with you on it.
I agree with you Grateful-not sure who you are, but feel like it could be on the other side of my cube wall. I need this job to feed my kid and me. It doesn’t pay well, but as a single parent, you don’t have too many choices.
I too am not going out on a limb for any of the agents my TM assigns to me-I don’t know them as they were new to me just a few months ago and will change again when there is more turnover. And management doesn’t support me in upholding their underwriting rules when an agent complains that I am being too restrictive so I’ll refer every account I can to the TM or Regional Manager. They can catch the heat from the Sales Pro or agent-not me. And as long as Liberty keeps on paying me just like Safeco did, then I’ll do what I have to to keep my job.
I’m in it for my paycheck just like you agents.
Isn’t short term gains on Wall Street about money?
It’s about short term money. You can’t base a career on a single transaction.
I all depends on how much the short term gain is. I have seen some transactions that you could finish a career over.
My point is that all of this is about Safeco making money. If you think differently then you are just kidding yourself. Everyone has to adapt and make the most of the situation. I am sure that employees are nervous. But thats the route you have taken. I tend to see the silver lining. Liberty Mutual may or may not be the best company. I’ll judge them over time. They are a large company and I’m sure they have some pros and cons about them but they have to be doing something right to be as successful as they are. I will welcome them with open arms until I have another reason to feel differently.
Grateful – I wish you nothing but the best. You have gotten a little rowdy on her and that shows you have spirit. I like that and I am sure that you are a good employee. I am sure you would be an valuable asset at the agent level. If I knew you I would talk to you about a good paying position with my agency.
Voice of Reason – I am disappointed in your rapport. You have a lot of growing to do.
I think everybody is missing the big picture… We all feel the same way. As horrible it is that mergers like this cost people jobs, and we all feel for those who get cut( right Livingstone!!), the sad fact remains that this is part of the business we signed up for. The days of lore no longer exist, companies merge. Airlines, big oil, even major appliance makers merge.
I’ve been on both sides…hang in there Safeco folks…if you are worth keeping you should land on your feet…. And even if you don’t stay with Liberty, something always will pop up…especially in this field!!!
Watch the news re: Selective, I think they are next. Cincy isn’t going to be sitting too pretty by the end of 2008, either. But Selective is the company to watch. (just my prediction)
CINCI…
Why do you think Cinci may be purchased. Has FLORIDA had any negative effect on them?
I need to be “Omni Sure”
Hang in there Safeco employees. I worked for Safeco for a couple of years.. worst company I EVER worked.. Underwriting and underwriters are rediculous..!! They had no clue what the hell they were doin.. You all will be better off with Liberty..!
Next is close, but I think CINCI is safe, for now. Selective, Harleysville, and Citzens/Hanover are the companies to watch right now. Somebody posted those earlier, and I see mergers or straight out acquisition are possibilities that will happen in 2008
Harvy H – I’m really sorry that your experience with Safeco was so poor. I’ve been here 12 years and other than a few rough spots with upper mgmt changes, different directions with the market etc I’ve found Safeco to be a very good and respectful company, I’m proud to say I’m an underwriter in this organization. I’m not sure which office you were working out of but can be 99.9% sure it wasn’t our Midwest location because this office has very experienced and knowledgable underwriters.
I started with Western Insurance, was bought by American States, then bought by Safeco and now Liberty Mutual. I can say that my 20+ years of experience tells me the good ones stay, the bad ones are weeded out. I’m paid well, enjoy my teammates, love my agents and Safeco has been an excellent company to work with. I’ve heard nothing but great things from those that work at Liberty companies that I am close with — Wausau, Liberty Mutual itself, Indiana, etc.
Yes — it’s all about the money. Isn’t that what Corporate America is all about?
If you are the best of the best — agent, or company employe, you have nothing to worry about. Put money away for the future and keep your nose to the grindstone.
If you’re not the best, then you have some work to do. Spend more time learning and less time complaining. We’ll all benefit in the end.
I worked for Safeco as an underwriter for 9 years, and was laid off when my division was closed. It was heartbreaking…and the 2nd time I suffered through a lay off. I worked for AIG/New Hampshire Ins., Southern Calif. office – it was decided to close the branch. Its ironic, I went to Safeco, a company with a history of taking care of their employees, only to be laid off after many good years of service. I’ve worked for several insurance companies that have laid off employees; Highlands Insurance Company, Pacific National Insurance Company, AIG/New Hampshire Insurance Company and Safeco. I’ve learned through the years, nothing is guaranteed, your job performance is not part of the decision making process when a large corporation decides to make a change. All I can say is, its on you now, if you plan on retiring in comfort, you have to keep your skills and marketability sharp…you’ll need them as you move from one company to the next…your loyalty has to be to yourself!
Now it has been a couple of years since the merger… Are people still happy? After the figures were released they lost a lot of money… wonder how happy everyone is now. Are jobs safe, will they sell and then who would be safe… a lot going on… anyone remember when st. paul bought usfg what happened… travelers bought that company and then they were st. paul/travelers… now they are travelers…