I’m certain I missed something, but what is this article and Demotech talking about? I know that Nationwide is a National company. Who cares that Nationwide Mutual Fire Insurance Co just so happens not to write in a few states. Same thing with Mid-Century Insurance Company and Fire Insurance Exchange – both of which a sub-companies of Farmers Insurance Group/Zurich.
The article says these companies are “critically important to the industry”. What? Are you trying to tell me that if Fire Insurance Exchange didn’t exist, that Farmers wouldn’t place that exact same business with another one of their companies? Get real.
Being a Texas agent, I am not familiar with the majority of the remaining players on this list, but I’m guessing there is a chance that some of these others are also sub-companies of other larger counterparts.
If that’s so, the entire concept must be called into question. I realize the IJ does not limit itself to Independent Agencies, but the world would not even hiccup if Mid-Century blew up tonight. That biz would roll over to Farmers Insurance Exchange, or any of a dozen other shell companies that the parent company can use.
The list is meaningless it appears. I expected better from this source. Certainly AutoOwners qualifies with 4B in premium and also Erie. I am amazed that State Auto @ 1.2B is not shown.
Thank you, thank you for calling out this list! Peerless, Indiana, Golden Eagle, Wausau, are not Super “Regional” companies. They are the devil in the clothing of a sheep, and Independent Agents drink their Kool-Aid. Now it appears that IJ does as well?!?!?!? C’mon, a National is a National is a National!!! So PLEEEASE do not do the hard-working and true regionals and super regionals the injustice of parading this fraud! Erie and Auto-Owners are a good call, but I disagree on State Auto? Isn’t this Lake States redressed and doing the same dumb things as they did in the 90’s? I do wonder where Acuity falls? And forget it, General Casualty and Unigard don’t even get to call themselves Super Regionals anymore – they are QBE.
The most interesting fact that I find is that there are 152 – count ’em – 152 Super Regionals? And all of my friends in the industry say that if there are any more acquisitions, then we won’t have any choices left?!?! There are plenty, plenty of insurance carriers. We need to get some of them off the street! (is Liberty the only one buying?)
I think there is some discrepancy as to what a super regional is. In my estimation, there may be 152 “regional” companies but only about a couple of dozen Super Regional companies. IJ should post all the lists of categories they say they have. I agree with comments on Erie and Auto Owners but I also agree with Peerless. Peerless, Indiana, Wassau and Golden Eagle may be under the Liberty umbrella but EVERYONE KNOWS they act separately in almost every way in this industry. That is the idea behind the different companies – different regional focuses, product diversity and agency management. The idea behind a super regional is the regional focus. This is why State Auto is not there – they look like they are going national. I may not agree with everything Liberty does but the idea behind the regional companies such as Peerless, Ohio Casualty and Indiana definitely works. I applaud them for their efforts with holding on to the regional focus that has helped us on the Independent Agency side. Obviously, there will be more discussion on super regionals but Erie, AutoOwners, Country Mutual and Peerless definitely belong on this list. Congrats to those companies!
But before I get back to work, how come I can place coverage with Liberty & the policy comes in written in Peerless? Would not seem to be a regional carrier now would it? Ok, going back to work now.
but I just clicked on the link in the first sentence of the article and found out all I need to now about Super Regionals (at least two states but now more than 34?). Why 2 to 34? Who knows. But you too can learn more about super regional if, like me, you can suffer ‘dude’ talking slowly, painfully, for 3 1/2 minutes about why super regionals are relevant. Why do all these insurance execs look like Jack Nicholsan in ‘One flew over the cuckoos nest’, post lobotomy?
The concern in the previous posts seems to be what the definition is of a super regional. The consensus seems to be that if owned by a national company an insurer cannot qualify as a super regional.
Having worked for a couple of regionals that were owned by larger companies my experience was that the regional did not change. It still had to make underwriting decisions, stay solvent, comply with state laws, settle claims as before, etc.
The article mentions super regionals as one of 11 categories. Perhaps the Insurance Journal could do a follow up article explaining the criteria for a super regional as well as the other categories Demotech has determined.
Let’s get all the information before making a judgment about who should and should not qualify as a super regional.
There are eleven categories. I read about them last year when this first grouping came out. Seems to me the issue is how companies get grouped. I commend Demotech and the IJ for trying to make sense of the myriad structures utilized by holding companies.
If the owners of insurance companies do not want their individual carriers viewed as individual carriers, then consolidate them!
So, why would Liberty Mutual (for example) consolidate all of their companies, and get rid of the charade that all of these units are independently operating? Especially when agents have fallen for the charade, and allow the fox (Lib Mutual) into the henhouse? If you’re big with Indiana, Peerless, Golden Eagle, or another LRAM carrier, then you’re in bed with Liberty Mutual. I’m not saying that you can’t be proud of that – but then don’t complain when Liberty Mutual or Wausau are taking your business from you.
Yup, I just lost one to Liberty Mutual. And imagine that, it was a good-sized account that Indiana told me they couldn’t help me with 1 YEAR AGO! And now this year, Liberty Mutual mysteriously shows up at the insured’s door with a very competitive quote. Now just how did they know the effective date, the contact, and how competitive it needed to be? And it didn’t fit Indiana’s appetite one year ago. That is the last time it happens to me!!!
I’m certain I missed something, but what is this article and Demotech talking about? I know that Nationwide is a National company. Who cares that Nationwide Mutual Fire Insurance Co just so happens not to write in a few states. Same thing with Mid-Century Insurance Company and Fire Insurance Exchange – both of which a sub-companies of Farmers Insurance Group/Zurich.
The article says these companies are “critically important to the industry”. What? Are you trying to tell me that if Fire Insurance Exchange didn’t exist, that Farmers wouldn’t place that exact same business with another one of their companies? Get real.
Being a Texas agent, I am not familiar with the majority of the remaining players on this list, but I’m guessing there is a chance that some of these others are also sub-companies of other larger counterparts.
If that’s so, the entire concept must be called into question. I realize the IJ does not limit itself to Independent Agencies, but the world would not even hiccup if Mid-Century blew up tonight. That biz would roll over to Farmers Insurance Exchange, or any of a dozen other shell companies that the parent company can use.
Super Regionals …whoopty-doo.
Good call, confused. As far as I know, Peerless is owned by Liberty Mutual. Regional indeed. Hmmmm.
The list is meaningless it appears. I expected better from this source. Certainly AutoOwners qualifies with 4B in premium and also Erie. I am amazed that State Auto @ 1.2B is not shown.
Thank you, thank you for calling out this list! Peerless, Indiana, Golden Eagle, Wausau, are not Super “Regional” companies. They are the devil in the clothing of a sheep, and Independent Agents drink their Kool-Aid. Now it appears that IJ does as well?!?!?!? C’mon, a National is a National is a National!!! So PLEEEASE do not do the hard-working and true regionals and super regionals the injustice of parading this fraud! Erie and Auto-Owners are a good call, but I disagree on State Auto? Isn’t this Lake States redressed and doing the same dumb things as they did in the 90’s? I do wonder where Acuity falls? And forget it, General Casualty and Unigard don’t even get to call themselves Super Regionals anymore – they are QBE.
The most interesting fact that I find is that there are 152 – count ’em – 152 Super Regionals? And all of my friends in the industry say that if there are any more acquisitions, then we won’t have any choices left?!?! There are plenty, plenty of insurance carriers. We need to get some of them off the street! (is Liberty the only one buying?)
I think there is some discrepancy as to what a super regional is. In my estimation, there may be 152 “regional” companies but only about a couple of dozen Super Regional companies. IJ should post all the lists of categories they say they have. I agree with comments on Erie and Auto Owners but I also agree with Peerless. Peerless, Indiana, Wassau and Golden Eagle may be under the Liberty umbrella but EVERYONE KNOWS they act separately in almost every way in this industry. That is the idea behind the different companies – different regional focuses, product diversity and agency management. The idea behind a super regional is the regional focus. This is why State Auto is not there – they look like they are going national. I may not agree with everything Liberty does but the idea behind the regional companies such as Peerless, Ohio Casualty and Indiana definitely works. I applaud them for their efforts with holding on to the regional focus that has helped us on the Independent Agency side. Obviously, there will be more discussion on super regionals but Erie, AutoOwners, Country Mutual and Peerless definitely belong on this list. Congrats to those companies!
More than anything I’m suprised that so many of you give a crap about this meaningless article. Get back to work…
Where do we get the full list ? How?
But before I get back to work, how come I can place coverage with Liberty & the policy comes in written in Peerless? Would not seem to be a regional carrier now would it? Ok, going back to work now.
but I just clicked on the link in the first sentence of the article and found out all I need to now about Super Regionals (at least two states but now more than 34?). Why 2 to 34? Who knows. But you too can learn more about super regional if, like me, you can suffer ‘dude’ talking slowly, painfully, for 3 1/2 minutes about why super regionals are relevant. Why do all these insurance execs look like Jack Nicholsan in ‘One flew over the cuckoos nest’, post lobotomy?
The concern in the previous posts seems to be what the definition is of a super regional. The consensus seems to be that if owned by a national company an insurer cannot qualify as a super regional.
Having worked for a couple of regionals that were owned by larger companies my experience was that the regional did not change. It still had to make underwriting decisions, stay solvent, comply with state laws, settle claims as before, etc.
The article mentions super regionals as one of 11 categories. Perhaps the Insurance Journal could do a follow up article explaining the criteria for a super regional as well as the other categories Demotech has determined.
Let’s get all the information before making a judgment about who should and should not qualify as a super regional.
There are eleven categories. I read about them last year when this first grouping came out. Seems to me the issue is how companies get grouped. I commend Demotech and the IJ for trying to make sense of the myriad structures utilized by holding companies.
If the owners of insurance companies do not want their individual carriers viewed as individual carriers, then consolidate them!
So, why would Liberty Mutual (for example) consolidate all of their companies, and get rid of the charade that all of these units are independently operating? Especially when agents have fallen for the charade, and allow the fox (Lib Mutual) into the henhouse? If you’re big with Indiana, Peerless, Golden Eagle, or another LRAM carrier, then you’re in bed with Liberty Mutual. I’m not saying that you can’t be proud of that – but then don’t complain when Liberty Mutual or Wausau are taking your business from you.
Yup, I just lost one to Liberty Mutual. And imagine that, it was a good-sized account that Indiana told me they couldn’t help me with 1 YEAR AGO! And now this year, Liberty Mutual mysteriously shows up at the insured’s door with a very competitive quote. Now just how did they know the effective date, the contact, and how competitive it needed to be? And it didn’t fit Indiana’s appetite one year ago. That is the last time it happens to me!!!